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I'm autistic with the PDD NOS diagnosis. My fascination is into small things like insects and plants. Psychology and disorders also fascinate me. I use bits and pieces I learn from people to make up characters and write stories based on my characters. Besides making an... [More]
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Things to take in consideration when communicating with an autistic person

Jan 21, 2008 12:27AM - 4 comments
Tags:

autistic

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autism

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Autistic behavior

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autistic spectrim

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autism advocate

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adult autism

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aspergers

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PDD

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pdd-nos

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Autism/PDD

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facial expressions

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point of view



1. An autistic person usually is not aware of social boundaries. In theory this sounds great to feel free of restriction, but in practice it almost always backfires...  For me, this can produce a varying degree of embarrassment.

After reading a number of posts dealing with concerned parents and their autistic son/daughter's behaviors such as hand flapping, biting, injuring self in some way, I think back upon myself and I realize as a child, even now I still am learning how to express my feelings appropriately in public.  Most people use facial expressions.

For the autistic it is not as easy as it sounds.  When you're in the midst of an anxiety attack, anything goes. If anyone is aware of a socially acceptable way to have an anxiety attack, let me know...I'm still working on that one.

2.  Trying to understand someone's point of view is difficult because people outside my point of view seem to be perceived by my mind as objects in the environment. Sure they come and talk with me. I know they are people, but to try to understand where they are coming from and what is on their mind may be a strain. I cannot readily see into their thought process. My mind just takes them as if part of the setting. I communicate with the person and they communicate with me if I am doing things right. Hopefully I am not making a fool of myself or frustrating the person… Being human I still have the need to interact with people and socialize.  Nobody can live in complete isolation. Some people may seem to, but I doubt there is really anyone out there that can live their life without the need or strong craving to reach outside the scope of their own mind.

Oh boy this is going to be a tough one to explain, but if you understand what I'm trying to say, I am really happy that I make sense.  This was something I struggled with as a kid. I could not explain it. Even today I get blank looks when I try to explain this into words...

Okay, I see things from my point of view. I see my hands in front of me. I "hear" or know my thoughts.  My voice vibrates in my throat.  I cannot see my face, unless I look in a mirror.  I see everyone else's face. If they have a facial expression, I see it too, though I may or may not pick it up.  

Up until about 12 years old, I did not understand I was not the only person who cannot see their own face unless there was a mirror to look into.  I was also unaware that people can see my face, even though I cannot. To them I would look like an outsider like any other person outside of themselves.

As a child I was trying to learn if this is true by going around and asking people if they have to look in a mirror to see their face. I’d also ask, if they can see their own eyes without looking in a mirror.  I should have asked if they could see my face and see my eyes.  No matter what it seemed my answer was almost always a very confused look and possibly a “Huh, what do you mean?”

Okay, that doesn’t help…  I don’t know what kind of expression my face would be making, but I sure feel frustrated…  Perhaps it would be best explained if I handed everyone a video camera (provided I had the budget to buy a bunch of them) and ask them to put it in record mode and hold it in front of their face.  Each camera would record the perspective from the person holding it.  If I had everyone stand on each corner of the room, then there would be at least four different perspectives.  If I had each camera set to point to the other, then we’d see camera person 1# looking at camera person #2. Now let’s look at camera #1. We see camera #2 looking right at us.  From camera #2’s perspective, there is camera #1 looking at us. From camera #3 and camera #4, we see both camera #1 and camera #2 pointing at each other.  We cannot see the outside of camera #1 from camera #1’s point of view because of the way the lens is set up.  A camera cannot record itself.  The same is true from camera #2, #3 and #4.  Even though each camera cannot record itself, it can easily record the outside actions of any other camera.  What it cannot do is record the same thing the other camera is recording from that camera’s perspective.  This is what I am describing as the physical act of looking at another person.

Let’s go one step further in my effort to try to explain thought process. I can think my own thoughts but I cannot think other people’s thought processes. Their thought process is hidden within the person.  All I see is what is going on outside.

Let’s imagine each camera is hooked up to a monitor on a very short cord just next to the camera.  None of the camera people can see any of the monitors except their own. I cannot see what camera #3 is recording by looking into camera #1. I can only see what camera 1 is recording if I am operating camera #1.   I can see what camera #1 is recording as long as I am operating that camera.

3. Putting this into perspective, it is awfully hard to make facial expressions or be aware what kind of impression I leave on someone if I cannot see for myself how I look. I don’t have an outside monitor to see my face. People have told me in the past, I looked sad or had an unusual expression on my face.  I wasn’t aware of it. To me I was busy thinking and perceiving the outside world around me. I wasn’t paying attention to how I look.  It didn’t matter because I cannot see my face anyway.  I guess the result was a blank, empty expression on my face that disturbed people. I guess it disturbs people to see no expression on someone’s face.  Then again how do I know I have no expression on my face? I can’t see my own face.

It makes me wonder if perhaps that could be one reason behind hand flapping and other obvious behaviors in autistic people.  A hand flap could be a way of expressing anxiety or happiness.  It is something visible to the person expressing it and it may come more natural to that person than making an expression that they cannot see.

  For me, I had to learn facial expressions. I had to practice them in front of a mirror. Even now I don't know if I have it right... I can't see myself make an expression.  Once I do learn an alternative way of expressing myself, such as using language, it becomes easier to communicate, though I’m afraid I still blunder at times because it does not come natural for me to see inside someone else’s head.

It’s amazing I can write stories with characters outside myself from my observations of other people. I have a feeling, I must be using a different part of my brain when I observe people and imagine their thoughts in a more scientific like method. Something else could be going on that is connecting there but not connecting on an emotional level.

That’s it for raw, random thought typing tonight (this morning in my time zone). I hope it was enjoyable and not too hard to understand.


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by mjthewriterdad, Jan 21, 2008 02:02PM
point 2 is called Theory of Mind.  According to Uta Frith, a leading researcher, Frith thinks that persons with autism are "mind blind"  She diod what is called the Sally-Ann test with a doll and some subjects.   When the subject was in the room and an actor )Sally-Ann) entered, both subjects would indicate the doll was of the desk and the actor can see the doll was on the desk.   Now when the actor left the room and the doll was put away in a box.  When asked when the actor returns "Where will Sally-Ann see the doll?" the normal subject will say "she won't know, well, we put it in a box while she was gone"  the autistic person wil say "in the box"   This extends into these common  parent-child lectures "how will you feel in someone did that to you?"  The autistic person would be clueless.

point 3 some brain scans have shown that autistic persons use a different part of the brain than NT's in processing faces and facial expressions  NT's may tend to  use the intuitive part (center), autistics may tend to use the cognitive part (cortex).

by mona600, Mar 03, 2008 02:20AM
you have an aideas and thinking, very interesting, i should say you have the point and it is realistic, it just doesn't work on most people, i also don't know why but i tell you, you have a very inquisitive mind. i hope you are not that confused on how things work, because most of the things that a person may do or have is what they usually observe as they grow up and realize it is what we/they call socially acceptable, lol

by FMXSMKR, May 07, 2008 01:26AM
It's very difficult for me to understand things I have no base for.  I have no base to understand autism, but your journals are helping.  I find myself reading this particular journal entry over and over.  I am pretty detail minded, but you are way more than me, which is very cool.  I am highly attuned to peoples behavior and facial expressions etc, but it sounds like people with autism are the opposite?  I am very empathetic and am always putting myself in the other persons place in order to understand them, but I'm finding it hard to do that with you since autism is completely foreign to me, lol.  I am trying very hard to understand the camera analogy.  I find the way your mind works to be fascinating and wonderful.  It sounds like writing is a whole different ballgame for you than dealing with a person one on one.  You are an amazing writer and when I first read your profile some time ago and then read your journals and posts, I thought you were kidding about the autism.  With the help of your journals, I see now that autism has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence, clearly not for you anyway. : )  

I'm a little nervous about commenting on a disorder I don't understand and hope all that came out the way I meant it to.  I am meaning to compliment you.  

I know you're bummed about not always getting responses to your journal entries, but someone earlier said not to worry about that and just write for you which I think is excellent advice.





by MJIthewriter, May 10, 2008 03:23PM
Sorry for being slow to reply. I don't always know when someone replies. I'm finding out more and more I am quite empathetic. It just is in a different way. I may not feel the same emotions, but I can spot similarities and patterns. For instance if I am researching on alcoholism, I find it very useful to read people's stories. I tend to remember things from what I read and what I learned.

If I find someone else in a similar situation, I can pull that memory out from reading an earlier story. I can take what advice worked with that person and several others and try to suggest something that would help the person.

If someone lost their child, I can understand them if I read stuff dealing with parents losing their children. Otherwise I can take something I love, say my cat, and imagine him dying all of a sudden. Then I can get the right emotional context to relate to the other person.

Who knows, it may or may not be how other people use empathy, but for me I think I'm relying a lot more on my imagination and memories than someone else. The drawback is it takes longer to process the information, but the upside is I probably can understand the person on perhaps a more detailed level than what would be if I were "wired" to immediately jump to feelings.

I guess on the net having a good emotional detachment on things can help me see things more clearly. For instance if someone is emotionally attached to their problem, I can just kind of read past those emotions and use the knowledge I learned from reading similar experiences. The person has a right to their feelings, but feelings can mar good judgment sometimes. It isn't that I'm fully lacking empathy; it's just that I think I know something beyond the emotion. Whether I do, I don’t know…

Of course this isn't perfect either... What may work for one person may not work for all. That's why I find it useful reading several stories. The more stuff I know, the better my perception of the world.
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One of my ongoing quests is to see just HOW different autism is. I'm finding out interestingly there are quite a few similarities. I no longer think the world is autistic vs. non autistic. I think the autism spectrum applies to all human beings.  On either end are likely extremes that would be perceived disabilities.


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