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Tramadol & Ultram Recovery Room Part 48

Nov 01, 2011 - 270 comments
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tramadol

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ultram

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Recovery

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Healing



Good Evening Lovely Tramadol Warriors!

So glad you are here. So glad you are choosing to join us.


This is the place to be if you want off Tramadol. Lots of love, information and empathy here!



Love and Healing,
Emily

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by fightorfight, Nov 02, 2011
Evening Warriors,

I w/d'd from Tramadol about a year and a half ago-- and it was a rough, but doable, journey.    I hope that everyone who is in the throes of a CT or a Taper has the best of luck with their own personal recovery.   I can tell you, certainly, that it does indeed get better.    It just takes time.

Its been a long while since I've posted, but am in fact in a similar state right now.   I was prescribed it again for problems after a surgery on my shoulder this past September.   Knowing the problems I had and the struggle I had to deal with coming off of them, I asked the doctor to put me on a regular painkiller, but I suppose this is another one of those DEA freakout moments, and he insisted that I be put on Tram as I recovered at home.

I hate this stuff, honestly, but it was that or try to doctor shop someone to prescribe a real narcotic, one without all the SNRI (and might I add serotonin releasing) effects of Tramadol.   So I reluctantly obliged, and came home with a bottle of like 300 of them.    Days turned to weeks, and weeks turned to months.   I'll spare you the little details--- but I knew at that point again, I was drawn back in.    Cut to 6 days ago, I actually (finally) managed to get in to see a real psychiatrist for problems I have always had with anxiety and depression.

I laid it all out on the table for this guy, who at first probably thought I was a hypochondriac.  I suppose the layman isn't supposed to know which liver enzyme metabolizes this stuff, or how its the only legal, non-scheduled drug to release serotonin.   Mouth agape, he asks me exactly what I want to do.   Off the Tramadol, as soon as possible.      So that was it,  I went home after my appointment, ate a McRib Last Meal (They're Back!) and started this proverbial Round 2.    

This time, however, I've got some serious backup.   He put me on Prozac (Metabolized by the same liver enzyme as T...Think of it as a suboxone for the SNRI effects of Tram--it will also prevent T from becoming O-des, nullifying it, effectively), a small dose of Klonopin, and for the first few days some Seroquel.    I'm on Day 6 of C/T of 2 months of max prescribable T dosage,   Christ, all those same feelings back with me again.

I can say, thankfully, that while I have no idea if the Klonopin helps,  the Prozac is doing its job.   No Brain zaps, no deep dark thoughts, but it doesn't help the GI, RLS, and sweats.   The latter I do know how to handle, and am just coming through the other side of things.    I only post now, 6 days out, because that Seroquel stuff must be an Elephant Tranquilizer, because I slept through most of the first three days.   Knowing how terribly sleep-deprived I was last time, this go round its been an entirely different story.

Anyhow,  I think I'm coming through the worst of the acute stuff again (I can tell primarily by the amount of laundry I'm doing.. which has lessened).   The shoulder hurts, still running to the bathroom, still wrapping my legs when I sleep, still feel like I've been rode hard and put away wet.   But I'll get better, and if you're tapering or coming through the other end of things, you will too.

I hope everyone has a good day or night as the case may be.   I start back to work tomorrow, which should be.. Interesting.   I don't care if I have pitstains and require caffeine on demand, I'm not letting this damn drug get the best of me again.    Such a worthless trade off, for marginal gains with this pill.  

I love that the journal is still here, thanks for keeping it up Emily.   I probably don't know many of the new people, but if there is anything I can help with, I'll be happy to try and explain the best I can.   Take care of yourselves.

-FoF



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by flashbackmac, Nov 02, 2011
in reverse I used tramadal to withdrawal off of hydrocodone addiction. I had them in med cabinet for some time thought of them when just begining to withdraw, Bammo!! 2 to 3 hours latter felin good. I continued to take them for 5 days and went cold turky. Man did it make a difference so much easier. I had a 8 plus year habit of 120 325 10 vics that would last about 10 to 12 days Then it was 2 the street oxycodone was my main hook up 80s 40s 20s roxycodone etc prety weal strung out. I did have to take higher doses of tramadal but no more than 3 50 mil pills at a time. This worked 4 me every body is different. I am to be prescribed wellburtin this thursday.For being diagnosed with adult adhd and that by itself exsplains so many things. Paxil has done almost zero. From what I know about painkillers they eather make or increase your dopamine levels and dopamine is what is the pleasure button in your brain.Most people who take vicadon etc get tired, not me I get wired and feel like i own the world for hours i did build up a tolerence but was always able to get some buzz.I am trying to remember my point [adhd]I can not but I bet that some how tramadal increses dopamine level also after hanging up i am going to investigate and let you know.Sorry for all the rambling but hope this mess makes some since.

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by Sarabie, Nov 02, 2011
Fightorfight... OMG I can't believe what I'm reading about your doctor (well off course I believe you, but you know). I know there is a big difference on how things are done in USA and Scandinavia but seriously... with each pack of tramadol theres a piece of paper here. Telling exactly what's in the drug. Telling that it's addictive and people who have been addicted shouldn't be prescribed the drug ever again. And yet your doctor insists that's the drug for you. Don't they know anything? But I'm glad to hear that you are doing ok again! Going thru this hell is hard one time - doing it twice must be worse. So I wish you good luck ! Tell us how it went at work :-)

Flashbackmag - guess your point is that we are different. Some people are dealing with severe w/d's after a short use of trams and others get thru quite easy like myself. 5 years with daily use - up to 24 pills a day - tapered for 5 days and then CT. Had all the physical w/d's but no brain zaps, depression, insomnia or anything like that. But since you were on a much stronger drug, I guess 5 days of tramadol doesn't really do much damage.

It's a grey november day here, but I'm quite pleased with everything. Going to Copenhagen next week. Having a "playdate" with a long lost friend this weekend. And just "chilling". I think it's time that I find some of my creative sides again. Haven't painted a decent painting since I stopped the trams and haven't written anything funny (I'm a text writer for different sketch shows - but only freelance thank God. Couldn't have written one single funny word during this period) But I think I would do me good to get started again. Hopefully I'm still funny without the trams... Must admit that I'm a bit nervous that it was the drug that made me funny and creative. But if it was in me before, it must be there still.

A question for you longterm users of tramadol. Do you have a spot on your body that itches like **** and has been ever since you started taking trams? I have a spot on top of my left hand. It looks like a rash cause I can't stop scratching and have been scratching the same spot for 5 years. My doctor says it tramadol related and no ointment or moisturiser helps. *sigh* Could use some advice if anyone has the same.

Peace out and take care !

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by legaljunky, Nov 02, 2011
Fightorfight and flashbckagain- Great to see some new "faces"!  And maybe another glympse into my future like Gizmok did for me a couple weeks ago.  I saw my Prim. care Dr. yesterday (who didn't know I had been prescribed Tram by my Lyme Dr.) and I told him my whole saga. He knew Tram is addictive but said if we can't take Nsaids for severe pain there really is no alternative but opiates.  Other warriors have said Tram is the hardest to get off so should we be asking for a different non- synthetic, antidepressant free opiate instead?   Hope you have some answers!

Sarabie- It's great that Denmark taxes fatty foods.  I don't think that could happen in the US, the wrong people have the $power!

Icandothis- Isn't it wonderful how dogs and other animals can sense things? They are so good for us. Glad you're feeling better.

Gizmok- I'm still with you all the time.  Love and strength---

I FFEEL GRRRRRRREAT!!  Got so much done yesterday and look forward to another great day today!  I think about all of you still enduring WD and want to pull you out here with me.  I feel like I burst out of a big cardboard box I had been trapped in!  And I remember having to think  just 1 minute at a time. It got me here and it will for you too!

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by Sydney0502, Nov 02, 2011
Hi, has anyone on here used Subutex to taper off of Tramadol. Could use some encouragement. I have been on sub since early May of this year.  I am just having issues getting to the point I keep going on my taper.  I am using Robert's taper method found on Drugs.com.  I am at 3mg now..but was all the way to 1mg just a couple weeks ago..we are supposed to reduce 25% every 4th day to combat the long half life..then stabilize 4 days, then reduce again 25%.  I was at 1mg and had to stay there awhile..got to 11 days but was still so nasuas and felt so yuk I ended up taking more and now back to 3mg (you are not supposed to do this but I did).  Now just trying to get myself motivated to get back to 1mg again.  

anyone out there that is either on Sub or better, got off>?

I was a bad Tram user...was taking 36+ 50mg pills a day.  Had a seizure..you name it.  I could NOT taper and could not do cold turkey.  Sub has helped but you still need to deal with withdrawals on that too just (to me) it gives you more your life back since you dont have the extra withdrawal of the opiate "high" to deal with.  It still has its issues and is very, very strong even at 1mg but it has proven a better option for me.

I am not on here to debate the Sub use just trying to find another Tram user who may have been successful?  Thanks.  

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by Sarabie, Nov 02, 2011
Hi Sydney - and sorry I haven't any experience with sub. My only knowledge of subutex is that a friend of mine told me that she was a heroin addict and then got subutex when she tapered etc. If you want, I can ask her how she got off them?



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by flashbackmac, Nov 02, 2011
Hi Sydney
I was on subutex 4 4 months. 2 pills/ day iI think That was 16 mg/day,to off of oxy and hydro withdraw. Over the last 8 years i have gone thru opy with draw many times do to I  spent all of my $s. Well unfortenatly I lost my job and had to go cold turkey on suboxin.MY GOD! compered to with drawing from a 160 plus / day habit of oxycodone it would be comparable to a coffie addiction [oxycodone] to WD from herion (suboxin] all the same symptoms just 10 fold worse. I did not sleep 1 second for 6 days stright.I began to hullcinate due to no sleep. I had to go to emergency room to get sleeping pills and they only worked half ***. After about 2 weeks I began to see some improvement not a whole lot though.It took about 6 weeks to get through the physical symptoms.It was hell on earth!! I had never shook so uncontrollably in my life. Never again. Good luck just do not have to go turkey. I have all so heard some bad stuff about taperring

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by flashbackmac, Nov 02, 2011
Sorry i would liked have given u a positive. Just hang in there and do what the doc says it will work it self out


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by Icandothis10, Nov 02, 2011
Flash - My god!!  You deserve a damn Combat Action Medal in my opinion to go through that.  I did hear that Sub is the absolute worst to get off because of how long it stays with you.  That's why I didn't try that as an option.  I've heard horror stories.  

Sydney, I wish I could give you advice about sub but all I can do is say I really hope that you get to where you want to be.  Have you thought about just shaving a little off the pill every couple of days?  It will take a while but It will help.  Also, make sure you pay attention to your timing of when you take it.  Everyone else here please correct me if I'm wrong.

Tapering has it's very rough spots too.  Nothing that I go through is so awful that it will completely ruin and disrupt my life.  I do realize though how very slow I need to go and how long it may take.  

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by flashbackmac, Nov 02, 2011
hey Sidney
I hope I did not freek u out. I have also heard many great results from Subs. I do no though that subs are a opy maybe synthetic or what ever but they r a opy. If I was to take one 2day I would get high as hell and most likly sick as hell. Some how after taking X amount of them they begin to cancel themselfs out ??? They r very very powerful for the non addicted. Once again good luck

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by flashbackmac, Nov 02, 2011
hey Sidney me again
Have u gotten the tremendous amont of energy of these things??? I loved them more than opys I was never so focused so able to take of business in my 54 years of life.??? and ther was no euphria just content with life, I had never felt so normal or what i precieved as normal ever. Once again i suspect dopamine inhibator just so much more.

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by fightorfight, Nov 03, 2011
Hey Flashback,

Yup, Tram is a small serotonin releasing agent,  a stronger norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, and then of course, the sporadic dopamine sites hit by the actual "point" of the drug, its mild mu-opiod effects for pain killing.  The energy thing is totally normal, and one of the things that is very tricky about this drug.   You get energy because:   A) Small serotonin release puts you in a good frame of mind,  B) The NRI effects how your body produces adrenaline--think of it as a bigger green light to ramp up, and C) You feel less panicked about it due to the dopergenic effects.

Its not something you can reliably count on more than a few weeks into a dosing schedule--- as your body gets used to it, and requires it to have that same amount of functional energy.   It has other properties as well,  NMDA agonism that may help prevent habituation, but as many here know--- that doesn't help if you're on a high, long dose, or are fast to metabolize it.  

Tramadol, chemically, is a very interesting drug for all it does--- However, I can't begin to describe how undesirable it is as a treatment method, especially for people who can metabolize it well.     You essentially have to withdraw from a moderate opiate, a strong NRI (like wellbutrin and strattera), and then an empathogen like MDMA.   Thats why, even with help of the antidepressant variety-- you can still get very very depressed off Tram---- Its not that its preventing the reuptake of serotonin, its that your body has become accustomed to letting tram trigger when it releases it.      

All that said, however,   Tram can be beaten.     Holistic treatments work,  mild prescriptive treatments (Like Clonidine, Xanax, Ambien), and even severe prescriptive treatments (Subs, Lyrica + Effexor, oxcarbazepine).  The most important factor in anything is time.

I'm all for symptomatic relief (hence my particular regiment), but to be free of Tram in the end, is the amount of time between your last dose and where you are.   Recovery is a different beast for everyone--- mile markers are different for everyone too.   I'd say that you'll see improvement on a sliding scale.... 7-10 days out, you're done with the acute WDs (opiate part),   15-30 days you see improvement coming off the NRI part of the drug.  30-90 days out is primarily getting your brain to release serotonin again at proper moments and times.

As I said before, all it takes is time, but feeling "normal" takes longer than any other narcotic I can think of, especially for someone who may have an underlying issue with depression/anxiety, which this type of withdrawal would exacerbate.

As for the first day of work, no problems minus a huge headache and tummy trouble.   I'm functional.   Thats all I need at present.

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by MrKenny, Nov 03, 2011
Fightorfight;
Thanks for posting what goes on in the body after WD over time; this is what I wanted to know, because after 40 days out  there was still 'something not right'.  It's been way over 60 days since i went cold turkey; but there some lingering issues.

I am normally a very positive, very happy person; but tram w/d has dampened my upbeat attitude a bit and I was concerned about long term damage. I know with time the effects will be cleaned and cleared out.
Thanks for the explanation of the physiological processes that we experience, but don't understand.
Have a Beautiful day y'all......

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 03, 2011
"you can still get very very depressed off Tram"

That has turned out to be the worst symptom for me.  If I'm alone for a day or just an evening, I start to have anxiety that is relieved by being around someone.  It also takes me about 2 hours to get out of bed in the morning, because I see no good reason to get up.  Sounds like depression to me.

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by loopey2u, Nov 03, 2011
That does sound like depression.  Can you go to your doc and get an anti-depressant for short term use Single?   I have had depression like that before and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. ((hugs))

Thanks fightorflight.  I am fascinated at how this drug works. You put it laymen terms and I appreciate that.

Still reading here, STILL down to 4 a day.  I tried going to 2 from 6 but it just wasn't happening due to bad brain zaps. For Christ sakes I feel like I'm coming off of Effexor, and I swore up and down I'd never take that horrible pill again no matter how depressed I got.  Been stuck at 4 pills since Saturday and I feel absolutely normal so I think it's time to taper to 3 starting today, then to 2 once some semblance of normalcy starts rearing its head. Hopefully only a few days.  So sick of having to think about taking these stupid pills.

I said it before and I'll say it again.  I have been on vicoden on and off since April for my stupid shoulder/neck, and was able to just top taking them without a hitch. This is so stupid and I'm really, really angry that doctors and even pharmacists don't know the reactions to this drug.


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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 03, 2011
"Can you go to your doc and get an anti-depressant for short term use Single?"

I'm trying to solve it with natural supplements (St. John's Wort etc.) rather than add a pharmaceutical.  Overall, I'm so much better than during the worst of the withdrawal, so I think I need to be patient and let my brain bounce back.  Still *****, though.


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by legaljunky, Nov 03, 2011
Wow fightorfight- Thanks for all the info, I think I understand some of it and I do understand that we warriors have a complex battle to wage.  I feel very lucky, my strategy seems rather simple at the moment!  After a couple spectacular days I'm tired but not depressed today. I don't want to do anything that takes thought. A good day for laundry and TV.

Gizmok- I imagine all this new deep info about  about Tramadevil might suggest some changes in your WD plan.  How are you doing?  
Sarabie- Have you looked at your inbox?

I'm thinking of all of you, my Tram fighting buddies-- sending hoe, strength and love!



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by tramsick, Nov 03, 2011
Fightorfight, thank you for all the information about the long term withdrawals of tram. I am 79 days tramadol free and for the last two weeks have been suffering the most horrendous panic attacks I've ever had in my life, the last of my withdrawal symptoms and I've had every one you can think of.  My doctor finallly realized that this is not going away and has me on clonazepam and next week I am to start Effexor.  I was hoping to tough it out and someday I would feel normal again, I've really been through it all and then some.

My question to you, since you are so knowledgeable, is...should I do the antidepressant?  I have to admit the clonazepam stopped the panic attacks but is not a solution.  The truth is I hate antidepressants.  I was on them in my early twenties and it took a year away from my life, with no relief, although that was depresssion at the time.  Can't I use the clon. until the panic attacks subside? Plus, since tram stays in your system so long could I possibly get serotonin syndrome?

Sorry to dump on you, but there don't seem to be many people in this forum that are in my exact position.  Most are courageously weaning or feeling much better than I am this late in the game.  Good luck with your own struggle, we all here can sympathize. Keep posting, your info. really helped me a lot.

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by fightorfight, Nov 03, 2011
Evening Tramsick, and everybody:

As far as depression coming off of tramadol, you're basically fighting two different beasts.   There is PAWS, which is Post-acute Withdrawal syndrome.... That comes from the mu-opiod part of the drug.   PAWS is a really hard thing to symptomatically treat, as some people are better suited to shrugging it off, or rather, and perhaps better stated, not realize that it is there.   It can be considered in this circumstance, a light amount of anxiety and depression-- because its only hitting certain mu sites,  thats how it got through the DEA schedule in the first place.   That not to say that PAWS isn't still a bummer with this drug, but its not the main culprit of your problems.

Second, and probably more importantly, you're also coming off an empathogen-- a drug that releases serotonin.   Serotonin release makes you feel good mentally, and gives you the upper edge when life as it so plainly does from time to time, wears you down.    Anyone who has been on a long clinical, or recreational, dose of Tram has essentially told the body:  "I'm going to feel good, at this time, and whenever this chemical is in my system".   The good news is, this isn't permanent, but its hard to treat.    There really isn't anything prescriptive in the US at this juncture that would ease the body back into releasing serotonin on its own.   People outside the US have other options,  two of which: Stablon and oxcarbazepine have been used in studies to get people off Tram rapidly, with positive affect after acute treatment.

Telling you all that, however, if you're in the US like I am, you're not going to get those options and have to rely on other mechanisms.   Good nutrition is a start, so you have enough building blocks for serotonin in your system.   Exercise helps, if done with the goal in mind of moderate to light cardio or strength training.   You don't want to cause yourself pain-- because in WD or PAWS, you don't have enough receptors engaged to help relieve it.   Thats why a lot of people, after WD notice that the pain that they had previously slowly goes away.   Your body has healed itself but the mind hasn't caught up.

Again, Time is the main factor, and its not something you can force.    Staying busy, or as busy as you'll allow, helps.  But all those receptor sites that had been trained to receive Serotonin 3 times a day, are still waiting there--- and thus cause you to feel really down.    Anything you can do, short of taking another Tram, that once gave you a positive affect-- I would try to fit into your day.   Movies, Hobbies, Games, Comedy... anything that would normally trigger a bit of serotonin.  

For Tramsick:   I'm honestly of mixed opinions on ADs while coming through this process.   I'm personally on Prozac, and had been on Cymbalta before.   The Prozac seems to help with the zaps and down feelings, but its not a magic eraser, nor do I think there is one.   I'd say that out of all the ADs, the two best candidates would be Prozac (since it makes use of the same enzyme in your liver that Tram does) or Effexor (Which is similar in chemical structure to Tram)..
Both of these drugs share a SSRI quality, which is re-uptake inhibition.   The problem though isn't that your receptors are flooded, but rather the opposite.     I suppose the best way to explain it would be this:   Say your brain right now is a leaking faucet, with small drips of serotonin coming out of it.    An AD would stop the drip, but it also wouldn't allow the faucet to run like it was supposed to.    If you've always had co-morbid anxiety and depression without Tram, I'd still recommend them--  as you and I may need that safety net once we're through all the stages of WD.   I can't say however, that they're the magic bullet to post-tram depression since its a different sort of chemical interaction.  

As far as Serotonin Syndrome, that can be over-exaggerated, its only when you're on Tram and then an AD-- and taking both of them routinely that you run the risk.  You're 79 days out,  most if not all of the Tram is away from the brain--you run no risk of the Syndrome... nor would anyone who is either tapering their dose or going C/T.   Coming off Tram effectively limits the amount of serotonin in your brain/body---which lessens the risk to near zilch.   That also is true for people using 5-htp or St Johns..

Far as Klonopin is considered, if it helps you--- I'd keep taking it as recommended.   I take it as well.  The only thing to watch out about Klons is that they are one of the longest-half life benzos.   So be sure that you're going by the every 8-10 hour prescribed dose.      The good news is, Klons are very easy to taper because of the half life, and should you not need them anymore,  WD from them done with a correct taper is inconvenient at worst.

With all that said Tramsick--- I'd recommend the Effexor/Klon combo.    At this point it should help, and once your serotonin starts flowing again (just judge by how many good days you have in a row), you may have a leg up on feeling like yourself again.  

Sorry for the spelling errors as I'm replying on my break at work... ;)  

Be good to yourselves.  
-FoF

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by wantmyselfback, Nov 04, 2011
Hey Warriors!  It's been two years since I've been off Tramadol, and I can honestly say I have never looked back.  For those of you fighting the WD's... hang in there.  It's been a crazy journey (if you want to- go back to Nov of 2010 to see my posts).  I suffered from severe WD's, depression, anxiety, and basically suffered the torment of Tramadol WD for two long weeks, followed by months of recovery.  The good news is that without Tramadol, life has gotten so much better.  I used to take Tramadol in the workforce to have a competitive edge (or at least I thought it gave me that).  Truth be told, I've had two promotions since GETTING OFF Tramadol!  

You can do this!  If you're going through it now, hang in there.  The worst thing would be to go back and start that hell all over again.  

I promise you, if you stick it out, life will get so much better!  :)

Best of luck on your remarkable journey!

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by legaljunky, Nov 04, 2011
Again- ForF- thanks so much for the info. I'll go back and refer to it as I continue in recovery.
I look at my posts from the beginning of my Tramadevil battle and realize I've been a flake.  I hope my brain will continue to  clear but if it doesn't I can live with it.  Lyme disease took it's toll on my short term memory and other thinking processes- for instance I have a lot of trouble organizing my thoughts into cohesive sentences and when it comes to writing it's even more difficult.  Luckily I'm an artist and Lyme did not get to the visual part of my brain.  

I was tired all day yesterday and hope today will better- all the laundry is done!  I want to be creative today!

hope, Love, strength to my Tram fighting buddies!

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by Sarabie, Nov 04, 2011
I just made an American applepie. OMG that tastes gooooood. Just needed to tell somebody :-)

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by tramsick, Nov 04, 2011
Thanks fightorfight, you really have a gift of explaining things in a way I can understand.  I was feeling defeated because being 80 days out, I certainly thought I'd be better than I am.  I'm grateful to you. It's nice to hear from a objective voice fof. Sounds like you know your stuff.  This is all a new (feels old) and a painful hell for me but I'm pushing through.  Hope you are doing well, let me know. Good thoughts to all of you!

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by fightorfight, Nov 04, 2011
Afternoon again guys and gals,

Tramsick, Legaljunkie:   I'm happy to share some information about the recovery process.   But, you should also know, that I--- just like you, posted my worries and regrets.   Its journal 31 that I made my jump from the Tram car the first time--and at that time, I just had to keep some sort of levity about the whole situation.   If you feel like laughing a bit, even if its at me, you can check those posts out.   In fact, I even read over what I had written to see if I was seeing any difference this time around.    Since then, and probably a month to two out, I decided to find out more about the drug because again, something was still "off".   I was functional, sure, but life didn't seem to evoke the right feelings out of me--- That was a two fold issue, I was on Tram for about a year and a half before I jumped.. so I wasn't giving myself enough time, and two, I was taking Cymbalta--- which actually caused me more panic and depression.   I'm not a doctor, but some of this stuff can be boiled down to brass tax with enough reading.     I only did so, so that I could help myself, and others in my family who were also on Tram get back to "us" ASAP.  

Tramsick, I've read over a few of your earlier posts, regarding the issues you've been having with acute flare ups so far down the line.   I'd say, just like me, that since we may be predisposed to have some sort of depression or anxiety issue, that Tramadol WD highlights those problems more than any other drug could.   Again, you'll be free of this, and at 79 days its going to come sooner rather than later.   Hold out hope.   I was having panic attacks as well my first go round, but closer to the 20-30 day mark.   At that point, I was so over feeling "wrong" or "unwell" that I just let them take their course.   It made for interesting conversation at work, where it seemed like I would spontaneously combust and then have a ring of sweat around my collar.   I just had to say... "Hey, I'm going through some tough times... and this is how they manifest".    Some people got it, some people didn't.   At that point I didn't care.

Its my 'morning' (I work late shift) of Day 8.    And I guess I'm feeling alright, still off for sure, but not terribly weak or drained.    Too early to tell if I get to be a part of the grand scheme of things again, but I'm sure something will happen that will let me know I'm in for a long haul, or just a brief stint by the River Styx.    Anyhow its off to work again.   I have a day off tomorrow which is good, I just need to be proactive and find myself something to do.  

Take care everyone,  Know you can do this.

And Apple Pie sounds good.

-FoF

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by Icandothis10, Nov 04, 2011
Hi everyone....FoF, that's very good information.  Also, interesting to read.  Amazing how our brains work and what we do to ourselves.

I ordered one more bottle of this crap.  I have still gone down on my doses though.  I am realizing that I need to slow down a little more.  I've felt a little tired during the day and the sweats seems to be the biggest symptom but I'm dealing.  I've been popping advil like Pez candy and still taking my L-Tyrosine and B vits.  God, I just cannot believe what I've done to my body.  I have absolutely NO desire to take more than I need to.  I couldn't imagine starting over again on this taper.  I just couldn't.  I'm down to six pills a day now.  I'm going to start taking it really slow.  I'm looking at getting on the plane the second Sunday of Dec and I cannot wait to come home clean.  I just wish I could get rid of that blank feeling in my head.  That seems to be the most annoying part of this.  I hope slowing down the taper will help that too.  

Good night all....

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by Sarabie, Nov 05, 2011
Icandothis - I think you are so cool. You have tapered 34 pills a day already. Only 6 more to go :-D That's a great accomplishment and I hope you are proud of yourself, no matter what. Seriously just think about it. I've "only" dropped 24 pills which was hard. You have dropped 34!! So it's no wonder that you have a blank feeling in your head. I know exactly what you are referring to by that. Something is missing and we both know what it is. But that too will pass. As FoF says, our brains need time to adjust.

fightorfigh - you are now the official expert on this, so I have a question :-) Do you have any idea about why some people don't get depressed after a tramadol stop? I was on trams for 5 years. The last year the dose was 20-24 pills a day and I loved the feeling of calmness and "everythingsgonnabealright" it gave me. But one day I just had enough. I told my friends and family that I was addicted to this tramacrap and I tapered for 5 days and then CT. I had all the physical w/d's and had to stay in bed for a couple of days. But no depression and no trouble sleeping either. I feel extremely lucky though, but I really wonder why. I have never had any kind of depression before and I'm basically a really happy person. But I'm sure many people are like that. It can't be because my brain wasn't effected by the trams, cause I really enjoyed the "buzz". At least in the beginning. In the end it was more like I needed it to function. I don't know if there is any answer to this, but I have been wondering a lot, and since you know so much about it, you might also have an answer to this :-)

Well time to get ready - going to a friends house for some Christmas beers. That's a Danish thing. All the breweries make a special Christmas beer and the first weekend in November they are "released" - it's one big party all over the country. So I'll go and have a few. Haven't had any alcohol for years, so it should be interesting ;-)

Take care now



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by TramTrapped, Nov 05, 2011
Thank god for this forum. Little did I know almost 2 years ago when I was prescribed Tramadol that I would be feeling like this today. It was marketed to me as a "safe, non addictive" substitute for "real" narcotics. Right! Doc gave it to be for a bad case of plantar fasciitis. The pain was so bad I could barely walk so my doctor gave me my first rx for 50mg 4 times a day. I can tell you I never abused the amount I was supposed to take (actually only took one a day) but it still got me hooked. I started taking it more for the emotional benefit about 6 months in to it . For me, I loved the way it seemed to take all life's stress away.

Fast forward to TODAY. I'm now on day two of cold turkey and I'm miserable. Zero energy (feel like I have mono), random stomach pain, my joints kill me and I'm horribly melancholy 24-7. When will this go away??!! Will it help mitigate the withdrawal if I wean myself to 1/4 pills or every other day? I also have rx cough syrup w/ codeine left over from a respiratory infection I had.. will that help?! This is just miserable and anyway I can alleviate this would help (already started taking B12).

Thanks for your help..

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by legaljunky, Nov 05, 2011
Hi TramTrapped- you've come to the right place!  You'll find answers and comfort here!  I don't remember how many months ago my Dr. took me off Tramadol after I had been on it for 2 years, taking less than she had prescribed.  I got SO sick I realized something was really wrong and I got onto the internet and found this life saving forum.  I read thru pages of posts and made the decision to go back on Tram. and taper off slowly, adding supplements and peppermint tea etc. that I read others were using to ease the way.  It was tough but using this forum to write about whatever horror I was dealing with at any moment and getting encouragement from everyone else who is going thru the same thing has been such an uplifting experience. I told my Dr. I was addicted and that I would deal with getting off Tramadevil myself.  Someday I will write her a looong letter and tell her about it!

Today was a good day- got lots done, plenty of energy, and I don't feel tired after a full day, but I have that blank feeling others have described, like I don't know who I am.  As I cooked dinner I told my husband about it- he has no clue what we Tram warriors are dealing with.  I said- "tell me who I am".  He said "you are a wife." I said,"and what else and kept making him come up with more descriptions of who I am and that made me feel OK for a little while, but the blank  is back. I don't know if it might be from actually being a little depressed or a little tired but dumping it out on the forum always helps!

So happy to be with you, all my Tram fighter buddies!  Strength and love to you all!



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by Sarabie, Nov 05, 2011
Hey TramTrapped and welcome amongst us :-)

We are all different and we react differently. Personally I wouldn't take anything if I was you. The worst w/d's takes a couple of days when you go CT. I stayed in bed and watched my favourite movies, loads of comedy and I red books and listened to music. It helped me to pretend I was down with the flue. I drank lot's of water and coca cola and when I was able to eat again I ate homemade tomato and vegetable soups. The easiest way to get vitamins and other good stuff from lot's of vegetables. I spent app. 48 hours in bed and then I was able to get up, shower, talk to the family and veeeeery slowly participate in normal life again. It took about a week before I was able to actually do something apart from sitting by the computer. Then I could slowly start to work out a bit, go for a walk, do the dishes etc.

If you read the earlier posts here you'll learn how tramadol effects our brains and that's why you feel melancholy. Your brain has to adjust again, as well as your body. Some people get seriously depressed, others feel melancholy and others again will only feel a slight "something is missing" feeling.

You have already taken a great step towards being tramadol clean and that's is quite an accomplishment in itself!!! Now you should think real hard and decide if CT is the way for you or you want to taper. Both ways work wonders, but as I stated earlier, we are different and to some people CT isn't the way to do this. You need to really think about what you want to do. But day 2 of cold turkey and I would say that you are in the middle of the worst period right now. From now on it's getting better. But it takes time. I'm on my 52. day clean and I'm doing great again. You will too !!!!!

That was it for now - but remember we are here for you !! Everyone in here knows what you are going through.

Love Susie



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by TramTrapped, Nov 05, 2011
Thank you legaljunky and susie! I appreciate your responses. This really does feel like the worst flu. I can't imagine how those of you did it who were on high doses! The brain fog is terrible. I was trying to send off work emails this morning and I could barely put together a sentence that made sense. I can't believe this is from taking ONE a day! I guess the length of time I took it really affected me. I can't imagine how I'll sleep tonight..

Thanks for the support. :)

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by Icandothis10, Nov 05, 2011
Welcome TramTrapped.  We are all friends here.  We listen, we *****, we moan and we help each other because only we know what we're going through.

I realized today that I'm tapering too fast.  I have to slow down.  I only took 6 pills yesterday but took 6.5 today because I haven't given myself enough time to stabalize.  I NEED to slow down.  Even if it takes a year. Trapped, remember, susie is right. Do what is right for you.  

God, I'm so tired.  But that aside, I actually got up at a decent hour this morning and walked the dogs.  I didn't sleep until 1000 a.m. like I used to all the time.  My sleep is definitely better!



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by Sarabie, Nov 05, 2011
Tramtrapped - well we can't really compare amount of pills and for how long etc cause our bodies and brains react different. I have had clean periods for both months and weeks without any w/d's at all while I was on 1-6 pills a day. And I think that many people on way lower doses than mine, have suffered more than I did when I quit. So it's not that you would feel 20 times worse than now if your daily dose had been 20 pills :-) the thing is that we were addicted and both body and brain relied on getting tramadol so when there isn't any, hell breaks loose. As you are pretty aware of know unfortunately.

Just keep posting. We know how much it helps to tell everything while doing this :-)



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by fightorfight, Nov 05, 2011
Evenin guys and gals,

Sarabie-  Your case honestly, by my reading, is pretty rare.    However, in your description I think you probably answered the question.   Tram makes people depressed after WD primarily because its effects on Norepinephrine and Serotonin.   In different ways,  Tram releases Serotonin, and makes the body hold on to naturally produced Norep for longer.   Its entirely possible that your serotonin receptors are less sensitive to count fluctuations, and the fact that you were able to sleep meant that your NR receptors are easier to regulate themselves.     Thats all entirely possible, given the gradient of recovery from this drug.  

Its also quite possible that your CYP2D6 liver activity is below average (This isn't something to be worried about..in fact some studies have shown that CYP2D6 activity faster or above average can cause depressive episodes... Its the primary method for any serotonin related material to get into your system and pass the blood brain barrier).  What that means is that while you were on Tram, you were metabolizing it at a slower pace than someone like me who has higher than normal CYP2D6 functionality,  essentially your body was tapering at a pace it was comfortable with, without your direct involvement.    

Tramtapped (great Name):  I feel for you, definitely.   Long low dosages can evoke some pretty bad WDs as well.   I can tell you without a doubt in my mind, however, that you can be free of them eventually, and with time.   The general rule of thumb throughout all the taper studies and mentions on this and other forums is that a 1/4th a pill a week is about the sweet spot where you negate some of the WDs--- but not all.    In fact, If I understand correctly you're on day 2 of a CT right?   The worst of the physical WDs should be done between 5-10 days,  so If you're still hanging in there, I'd recommend that you just see it through (If your life will allow it, obviously).   I can recommend some things that should help you through the initial part of it as well.  

Immodium or if you've got a friendly doc,  Lomodil (Binds to the opiate receptors in the gut).
Dayquil/Nyquil - Not for the antihistamine but rather the DXM, which is a mild dissasociative that helps sleep.
Melatonin  or if you've got a friendly doc,  Xanax/Clonidine (for anxiety and for sleep).

Codiene I honestly am unsure of since its a prodrug, it has to be turned into morphine by your body for it to be of any good to you-- and it'll only help mask one part of the WD process.  Regardless, though, relief at any cost short of taking another Tram is alright by me.    I'd try it yourself at a marginal dose and see how you do.

The lethargy, and depressive episodes will go away in time-- they linger around longer than you and I would both like,  but having been on the other side of the fence myself--- I can tell you that "you" will be back.  

Sarabie is completely right--- the more you can write down what you're doing and going through, the better chance you'll have to see it in a different perspective.    I know you feel horrible now,  but as you write for a week or however long, you'll be able to see your progress just by looking at this journal.    Progress of any sort, is a godsend with this particular drug.   Keep posting and let us know how you are.

Hope everyone else, lurkers, posters and alumni has a good night.    Remember Daylight Savings... and make sure you get that extra hour of sleep :).  

-FoF

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by Icandothis10, Nov 05, 2011
FoF - Thank you!  I am going to take your advice and slow down my taper to a half a pill a week.  I haven't given my body any time to stabilize the dose before I dropped so I think I'll give your method a try.  

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by Sarabie, Nov 06, 2011
FoF - what you say makes perfect sense... I know it's all hypothetic but as long as it makes sense, that's the explanation I'll stick to :-D Too bad it's rare, cause I really wish that everyone could get off tram without depression. The physical w/d's are bad enough, but having to deal with depression on top, must be... no words can describe it. I'm just SO impressed of all you guys who are going through it/have gone through it.

It's Sunday afternoon here. A real November day - sky is grey and it's raining a bit. Perfect for a walk. And when I return home it's soccer time. I am European and we are soccer fanatics I'm afraid ;-)

Have a great Sunday you all :-D

Love Susie

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by TramTrapped, Nov 06, 2011
FoF and Susie.. thank you!!! Good Morning Day Three! Well I managed to get a LOT of sleep last night. I did end up taking the codeine cough syrup and I think it helped keep me asleep for the night. I happy to say that I woke up this morning feeling physically better this morning.. less ache/pains. My mind is a different story. I still feel like I could cry at the drop of a hat and my brain is definitely "slow". Had to figure out some complex mathematical things for work and I felt like I could barely add 2+2. LOL

Since my overall energy feels a bit better, I'm going to try to make it to the gym for a little bit. Hopefully that will help with the endorphins. It's still tempting to take a Tram. I work a LOT and on my Sundays off I really use to enjoy my Tram high to let go of all the stress. That's the tough thing to break. I'm worried about what will happen when I legitimately need something for my foot pain again. Should I ask for a different pain med all together? I still have a Tram rx with 2 refills left. The time WILL come when I need something to alleviate the heel pain. Not sure what the alternative will be. Ibuprofen won't cut it.

Thanks for all the support!

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by caregiver222, Nov 06, 2011
Years ago I was prescribed Tramadol for extreme pain secondary to spinal injury. I became quite unhappy with the medication with an extremely short period of time. I can only speak for one person, however it unquestionabloy interfered with thought processes, reasoning, creativity, and the ability to write coherently. It also affected my driving, specifically my "situational awareness".  It did nothing for the chronic pain. It took a good two months after I was off the drug for my mental processes to return to normal.

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by fightorfight, Nov 07, 2011
Evening guys and gals,

TramTapped - Most assuredly, WD from Tramadol can cause some stumbles and bumbles in terms of cognition.   The first time I went off the drug I was making spelling mistakes and mix-ups at work pretty frequently until about day 20.    This time however, thankfully,  I don't seem to have as many problems with memory or muscle memory when it comes to typing things at work.    Thats nice, because last time, on my first few CT days--- I'd open up the dishwasher and forget which things went where.   Its a little humbling, but certainly gets better.    I'm not sure if the Prozac or the stint of time is what is making the difference, but all the same.   I'm glad you got some sleep!  

As to how to handle your pain now that you realize there is a big trade-off with this drug, thats going to be tricky.   Depends on who your Dr is and what your relationship is like.    With my primary MD (well ex-) when I told him that I thought I was addicted to Tram the first time, he sort of laughed at me and dismissed the idea.   I'm thankfully free of his ignorance at this point, but should it come down to it and I have moderate to severe pain, I'll ask for a real narcotic, and insist that I have a bad reaction to Tramadol due to its antidepressant properties.   Thats something I've yet to deal with and while my Psych was really good about this whole thing, I doubt a family practitioner would be of a similar mind.   Cross that bridge when I come to it I guess.

Its Day 10 for me, and aside from some mild tummy issues, physical WDs are all gone.   I definitely had a down couple of hours though.   It just so happens to be my birthday today as well.   I'm glad to be free of this pill again--- but would like to be happy today.   I don't know-- isn't much you can do aside from ride the tide.  I'll be going to work again here in a little bit, and keeping busy may keep my mind off things.    November Birthdays aren't all bad,  you've got Thanksgiving and then Christmas right around the corner--- maybe I'll have a better time of it then :).  

Hope everybody is doing well.    People lurking,  I was there too,  please post.   You'll find support and a judgement free environment to share your story.    

Take care,  
FoF

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by ullr, Nov 07, 2011
Happy birthday, fightorfight!

Its my birthday today as well...
Thanks for all the nice posts from you the last days.

Personly I still have a way to go in my healing process.
Even if I am 8 months off Tramadol.
But I went to a party this weekend, and my friends said that they saw the old me...
(maybe it was because I took some beers (did not drink at all when I was on Tramadol))

Its been so many other health issues with me the last months as well - high blood pressure,  pneumonia, sinusitis, stomack, cramps in my chest...bla bla ;-)

I have been thinking that I maybe should start to take some sort of antidepressant pills. But I am not shure. I realy would like to deal with this free from cemicals, but its hard.

Hope you all are doing good!


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by legaljunky, Nov 07, 2011
ullr- Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday dear ullr, happy birthday to you!!!  YAY!!!!

My heart goes out to you, you are going thru a rough patch. I hope you find some joy on your b'day.  I remember when I was at my worst at the end of my taper I did a gratitude list and the only thing I felt good about was that I was taking no more Tramadevil. I was accomplishing nothing else at the time. And that was a great and very painful accomplishment!  

I had a bad day yesterday, just very tired and stayed in bed all day.  I know it is WD returning just to show me it can, and I know I will get past it again.  Better days are coming for all of us!

Strength, hope and love to all of you, my Tram fighting friends!  

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by TramTrapped, Nov 07, 2011
Happy Birthday FoF and ullr! Mine's next week..

Day 4 and I slept pretty well. Still having night sweats but not as bad. First couple days I literally had to get up and change my tee shirt at least once during the night. The mental aspect is definitely the most frustrating. I can't seems to think clearly and it literally takes me 10 times as long to put together a sentence. Physically, I'm much better. Made it to the gym yesterday for 40 minutes of cardio and only felt a little nauseous at the end. I have a pretty rough day of work ahead of me. Conference calls, reports, emails.. should be interesting to see how I perform!

Hope everyone else is doing well and thanks for all of the support!

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by Sarabie, Nov 07, 2011
Happy Birthday to both FoF and Ullr :-D Being off tramadol is by far the best birthday present you could give yourselves. But that aside I hope you'll be spoiled rotten today and get loads of presents, love and cake :-D

I'm having a great day. Got started on my blog again and it turns out - I'm still funny. I was so worried about that. I have been working on a very funny novel and I actually had a publisher interessted. Then I fell in love and couldn't find time to write and blew it. Now I want to finish the novel, but didn't know if I could write without my precious trams. But it seems to work :-D My soccer team plays tonight and all in all life feels good today.

Peace out guys. Love Susie

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by tramsick, Nov 07, 2011
Happy, happy birthday FOF!  I really hope you have a special day today.  You've given so much good info, here and we all so appreciate it.  I've been thinking about your use of Prozac and have a question.  It is the one antidepressant that was not given to me years back, and I'm wondering why.  It's reviews on the internet seem stellar.  I told you my GP wants me on Effexor, but it's reviews are downright scary.  I'm contemplating asking for Prozac.

The thing is, about 15 years ago, I had a bout of depression, that's when Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa. was tried  In the end, they gave me Welllbutrin. Nothing ever worked.  I missed a year out of my life.  The only thing that alleviated my depression was excercise, and that's what I've been doing for the past 15 years.  However, since tram, after the workouts, I get these rebound withdrawal symptoms that set me back horribly.  I can't get back in the groove.  

I don't feel depressed so much as anxious.  We're talking some pretty horrendous panic attacks at times, most times after a vigorous workout at the gym.  I've been going to the gym only occassionally now and going slow on the elliptical, but I miss my natural antidepressant, vigorous excercise.

So, should I ask for the Prozac? Does it worsen anxiety? Would it be unheard of to stay on the Klonopin (it works, but it's a benzo and I'm worried of dependance and i'm so tired all the time) and hope that these panic attacks are the last of the tram withdrawal.  Rememeber, I'm some 84 days off tram. It's been so long! Just wanted to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance.

Oh, Sarabie, made ewy gewey cinammon rolls last night and they were like heaven!  Legaljunky, sorry you had a bad day. You are such a positive person on this forum through all you go through, so I hope you are better today.  I hope everyone is better today.

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by legaljunky, Nov 07, 2011
Fightorfight- I can't believe I missed that it was your birthday too!  I'm singing to you too!  I hope you found something joyous on your day, and what could be better than being Tramadevil free even tho we pay a hefty price for our freedom.

Sarabie- writing a novel, huh?  Mighty interesting!

I had another tired day but managed to get thru babysitting with my husband for 3 somewhat difficult little grandchildren.  But we all survived!

Right now I feel all used up. I wish us all energy, brain function, strength and love!

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by Sarabie, Nov 07, 2011
I had a great day :-) but I'm totally worn out now. I have been writing for a couple of hours. Yes legal I'm writing a novel. Not big litterature at all. More like Bridget Jones Diary. Watched my soccer match on tv. It was great untill those @&!!€¥** hillbillies tighed the score in the very last second of the match. Well can't win em all. Then I played tennis for two whole hours and my arms and legs are killing me now. But in a good way. It's fantastic to have both brain and body function again. Probably won't function tomorrow though but it was worth it. I should have had lunch with a friend today but I actually called it off. Somehow I just couldn't face it. Don't know why since I've been seing other friends. But I blame it on the trams.

Tramsick - I LOVE cinnamon rolls. And now you've mentioned them, I won't be able to relax untill I've made some myself tomorrow :-D

Bedtime in Denmark now, so Seinfeld on the dvd and Zzzzzzz the next 10 hours.

Love Susie

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by fightorfight, Nov 09, 2011
Evening Tramsick and all,

Sorry for the delay,  Birthday meant family, and I was just kinda wiped out after everything.    

As far as your particular question, Prozac, Effexor, or just keep the Klonopin for emergencies?    There are a few reasons why Prozac and Effexor are normally used after Tram WD-- due to how those drugs are broken down in the system.    I'd even go so far as to say that they help the body use that one enzyme I talked about earlier, every day like it had been doing.    I'm not sure if that helps us in terms of feeling better in terms of recovery, but I'm pretty sure they don't hurt, at least at first and immediately after (in that sort of 90 day middling window).

I, like you,  have been on all the normal SSRIs.   Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Lexapro.   Nothing doing there, except being disgusted being a labrat.    I then took Cymbalta (as opposed to Effexor) which at first seemed to help, but I eventually had to come off it too, because I just couldn't tolerate some of the side effects.   Withdrawal From SNRIs can be pretty brutal,  basically Tramadol without the Opiate WDs.  When I came off my 90mg Cymbalta dose, I honestly wanted to punch my GP in the junk for about 2 weeks.    I know Effexor helps a lot of people--- and its really a measurement of how your life is now, and what its like on the medication.   However, I can't honestly say that:  "Yes! Yes!  Effexor is going to do the job!"

When I asked my Psych about Prozac, he first asked me why--- especially since I hadn't had any luck on any of the other drugs of that class.   Aside from it being one of the easiest to come off of due to its long half-life, its also known to be one of the most activating SSRIs because it effects some dopamine receptors in your mesolimbic system as well.    Energy, or rather the lack of it, is a big issue coming off Tram, and figured that any help I could get in that area would be welcome.   Its also a drug I have never been on, so the possibility of it "working" in my head gave me a little boost as well.  

Even coming off just this two-month tram ordeal, Its not keeping me from getting down...but its allowing me, I think, to try and manage it and look at things objectively.  That brings with it, however, the sort of blunted emotional response I seem to have right now.   I'm not a Prozac Zombie, or anything like that---- but I'm certainly not the jovial guy I was full post WD this past year.   Its complex, and so very situational that I'm hesitant to get people in droves to get on Vitamin P after Tram:  We all see normalcy a different way---- and what might be good for me (This objective approach) may not be right for someone who wants to LIVE again in capital letters.    I hope I'm making sense with this, but I suppose I'm trying to explain something that can be considered completely subjective.   One thing that is certain with any Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor is that it blunts your affect-- You have a line graph with less peaks and valleys.  

In your particular circumstance, I understand what you mean in regards to it not being depressive, but rather anxiety that is causing a lot of your troubles.  I'd ask about Prozac, but I honestly (and if you think) wouldn't force either AD on yourself if you don't think you'd tolerate it well.    I'm on a very small dose of Prozac currently, along with a very small dose of Klonopin I take at night.  Again, they seem to be helping me in terms of a faster mental and physical recovery, but it could also be that my time with this drug again was shorter.
  
I wish I had some better information in regards to the flare ups you get after exercise and what you could do to combat them.   Unfortunately, I don't know what it is aside from a mismatched adrenal response.  Which probably is a byproduct of the NRI part of Tram.   That should mean though, that far enough out, it should fall in line again.

The thing about all this is, again, is time, and how we all recover a bit differently.   I'd honestly say, that if you're concerned about mixing in an AD this late in the game--that give it a little more time with just the Klonopin and try and wean yourself up on the exercise.    I'm sure your body (after 15 years) of being able to produce adrenaline on command will get right with time, but since ADs are really hit or miss for some people, adding another chemical into the mix may just cause you more grief than you're already dealing with.

Its not unheard of for people to have an emergency medication for panic-- Most General Practitioners or Family Docs like to supplement them with ADs, because a Benzo-only strategy brings with it dependence issues.   However, in your case, the doctor was smart to put you on Klonopin as its one of the easiest to come off of due to the half-life of the drug.    It would be a different story if he put you on say,  Xanax or another short acting med--- because that multiplies the difficulty of coming off of them, even using them as directed.  

Maybe another week or two with the Klonopin, and trying out a less intensive, but more routine exercise program to see if you can't get your body and mind to cool down with you as you finish a work out.   That amount of time would put you right near the 100 day mark.    Hopefully from there you can gauge if you're getting better, or staying the same.   In which case then an addition of an Anti-Depressant wouldn't be off the mark.   At that point then,  I'd recommend Prozac over Effexor just because its much easier to start and stop-- given the nature of Tram Recovery, the less strain you put on your mind the better off you'll be.

I apologize for the book, by the way..  Hopefully in that wall of text you can pick out some information that will help you as you continue to recover.   I certainly wish and hope for all the best for you Tramsick, and that this last lingering difficulty goes away soon and doesn't come back.   I'll be thinking of you today my day 12, as I start exercising again.  

Health and healing to everybody,
FoF

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by legaljunky, Nov 09, 2011
Hi all my buddies, I think I'm doing really well.  My husband was admitted into the hosp yesterday morning for deverticulitis and will be there a few days on IV meds till the inflamation goes down.  I'm keeping a lid on my feelings, hoping to not spike my WD again.  Aside from that, all is well!

Fightorfight- Thanks for your long meaty messages-  They make me feel comfortable with what I'm doing for my WD--  just for today, because I know things can change at any time.  I'm glad you are doing all the research, I don't feel like doing it!

Love, strength and hope to all of my Tram fighting confidants- I need you!

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by tramsick, Nov 09, 2011
Thanks FOF, as always, you came through.  I think I've made a decision..  No AD's for me at the present time.  I'm going to stay on the Klon, for a couple more weeks then wean.  I have a horrible cold, so I can't start my excercise, but I will go into it slowly and hope that my mind kicks in somewhere down the line.  If that doesn't work, I'll try the AD, but not Effexor, I've read toooooo many horror stories on when you stop it, and that seems like I'd be in the same boat as tram.

I have an a appointment with a psychiatrist next Tuesday and I plan to present my approach.  I wonder what his response will be.  I hear from my GP that a AD is more of a solution to the problem, whereas the Klons are masking the symptoms of my anxiety.  I really hope he is wrong and once I'm off the Klons my anxiety goes away.  My goal is to be pill free again.  I so want that I cannot explain it in mere words.

Thanks FOF, it helps to here from someone who has been there.  I hope your recovery is swift.  It is a trap we've all fallen into.  I think back and I was on such a small dose of Tram for only 3 months.  If only I knew then what I know now.  All we can do is go forward and not think of the past. Anyway, thanks for the info and the support, it means more than you know.

Legaljunky, sorry to hear your in the hospital, that's horrible.  I hope you get better soon.  Please let us know how you are doing.  My mother in law has diverticulitis (sp?) and it is not fun.  I send thoughts of healing to you and everyone!

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by 4leefclover, Nov 09, 2011
Hi warriors!
I come back to this post a most humbled soul
I was clean from tram for about a year and a half. I came across some pills in may and took them
The feeling of well being was amazing!
The pcp stuff is scary!


So, needless to say I dabbled for a few months and these last few weeks have been up on my intake
15 to16 pills a day (50)
I know I need to get off
I started effexor in early sept and I know it is a good drug for me
I did 8 pills sun
7 mon
4 tues
And I plan on taking my first dose today as late as possible
I know the drill about hylands for legs Vits and b 12
I had a horrendous w/d last time...
I have cloNIdine and have used it during the day and night this past few daysit amazes me that when I started the effexor
I knew I would be ok off the trams but I kept doing them anyway
I like the weight loss
I am very isolated in my life right now
My partner doesn't know  
probably look like I am ok to my family and co workers

I decided to stop when I looked deeply into my daughters eyes and knew how much she still needs me in her life
She is 25 and going to grad school but keeps talking to me about my helping her with her babies someday
Sh!t.  I remember thinking I'd like to stay alive long enough for her to get out of high school
I had a spot on my lung 12 hrs ago had it removed but never really grabbed hold of life again

I like being high and thin.      No question
Plenty of self pity masked beneath a veneer of humor and juggernautish drive to show up
But only on my terms....which has included secret drugging lately
So I've been reading for hours these past few days and been helped tremendously by all of you
Thanks for being here
Sasha  

I have this Secret.....my own little universe with the 'little whites!'


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by legaljunky, Nov 09, 2011
4leefclover-please come over to our side of this war with Tramadevil-  we're all here for you.  I can't say enough about how supportive and caring everyone in this forum is.  And I am a Grandma, was with my daughter to help out when her children were born and it is the deepest most rewarding thing I've ever been through.  I had no idea how wonderful being a Grandma would be. You don't want to miss it.  And the rest of life is so beautiful when I'm totally present to see it.

I lost 35 lbs. with no effort over the 2 years I was on Tram and I loved that too.  I assume the weight will come back, it hasn't yet, but I won't worry abut that till I know I'm done with WD- 1 problem at a time!

Tramsick- Thanks for your thoughts- but it is my husband who is in the hosp with diverticulitis and I am just now learning how common it is and no big deal.  He will be on IV antibiotics for a couple days and when the inflamation subsides he will come home.  I'm not upset so I don't think my WD will spike- I feel fine.--WOW-- I REALLY DO!!!

Love and strength to all my Tramadevil fighting buddies!

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by tramsick, Nov 09, 2011
Sorry legaljunky, misread your post.  I hope your husband is better soon.  Glad to hear you're doing well. Maybe you've beat the beast for good!

4leefclover, you've come to the right forum to deal with your tram issue.  I've never felt such support and care from the generous people here.  Keep posting and letting us know how you are. Don't give up and be strong!  We are here for you!

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by fightorfight, Nov 09, 2011
Hey 4leef,   its good to see a familiar name.   You and I both went through the same WD issues the first time, right around the same time.   I know you've been through it and have beaten it before.   I'm just coming through again myself--- and while our situations may be different, I'm still with you on this particular journey, I know you can do this.   It sounds like you're well prepared too.    I hope that the continuing days are better than the last time, and that it goes by quickly.    Stick with me on this,  again, just like before,  we're right in the same neck of the woods.  Put it all out here and we'll go through it.     You've got this.

Tramsick, I think thats a good call.   Your primary MD is sort of right in regards to the AD and Benzo switchover and usage.    Benzos make you calm primarily because of their actions on GABA receptors in your brain, its the same reason why people taking Ambien (A targeted A1 receptor agonist)  have an easier time through anxiety ridden periods (including opioid WDs).   Gaba A1 is the receptor primarily that allows you to sort of see through the anxiety when activated, it also provides some physiological help as well (heart rate slows, reduces sweats..etc).   The hope is, that once on an AD for a number of weeks, that your reactive brain chemistry is less likely to produce an attack,  thus negating the need for symptomatic relief..   Again, this is all sort of nebulous, because as we all know A/Ds aren't really fix it and forget it solutions.  

I think your Psych will be more likely to respond positively to your idea---- sometimes throwing an AD in the mix causes more harm than good.     GPs and Family Docs, however, normally go the Benzo then AD route so there is less risk to them.     Psychopharmacology, and its practice really is in the specialist realm--- and a GP may only have had a semester of it in school.     Its sort of the "Cast our nets wide, and see what sticks" approach. which I don't fault them for.   These are guys who are used to monitoring cholesterol, and giving out antibiotics---Problems with anxiety and depression aren't their forte.  Which is fine, but they hand out Tramadol like candy.... Grr, its a weird world and the DEA makes things complicated for us and them..  In any case,  Good Luck with it.   Let me know how you do!

Will start lucky day # 13 here in a little bit, and today was pretty good actually.   Still quite a bit of inner restlessness, and sleep without the Elephant tranquilizer has been fitful and light, but I'm getting up in the "morning" not feeling like death and that was one of my main "You're winning" feelings when I went through this before.     Exercise wasn't too bad either, but man I'm so out of shape---I also can't hit the weights like I used too with this shoulder :(.    I'm not much of a cardio guy,  always been much more of a ground pounder if you can dig it.   I'll just have to adjust.

Take care all, be good to yourselves.
FoF

(I'm going to try this tracker thing, if I mess up, don't make fun of me too much)

  

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by fightorfight, Nov 09, 2011
Haha, I think I screwed it up.   But now I think we're good.   Take care guys!


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by Sarabie, Nov 10, 2011
Icandothis - where are you??

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by honorbounddane, Nov 10, 2011
hello everyone,
havent written since day 21 but im still here, im on day 47 now with no tram or any pain killers at all, year and a half still with no booze, (seriously thought id start again when it got rough) took the klonopin and lyrica for the first 2 weeks. then i stopped those too, last thing i wanted was to get hooked on a benzo. so, i went and saw a homeopathic doctor that gave me some "remedies", they might have been helping or it might have just been my brain telling me they were helping, kinda like a placebo. but whatever the case, i feel good, not totally normal again, but what is normal? normal for me was being in a 6 year drunken and pill induced fog for my back and mental pain. but the ability to do what your body wants you to do and feel like comes back, and i have read over and over again that around day 30-35, the tram fog lifts up and you can see clearly. i think the tram fog lifted after 2 weeks for me, it was the PAWS fog i needed to get out of. and sure enough, day 35 on, great. im rambling, but ive been on these forums for awhile, and my story is in the last two forums if anyone cares. but i just wanted to give everyone and update. oh, btw, i finished school and i am now working in a doctors office, and i can see, actually see, the patients that are on pain meds, its really weird, ha hahah , i used to be that guy. anyways, keep up the war and you will win. rome wasnt built in a day, and our bodies wont be normal for awhile.
see ya

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by TRAMMAN999, Nov 10, 2011
I am on day 10 after going thru cold turkey for the nth time. Been on heavy intake for long time.
But, I’m on day 10 and want to continue to progress. Problem is, I’m not progressing !
I am extremely “ill” cold, fatigued, weary and incapable of doing anything  -  therefore, not progress.
I know it will be slow, but I am not getting a glimmer of hope.
Trying to do the right things, like walk, read, listen to radio, but just can’t do it !
Anybody out there with comments, suggestions  -  anything would be greatly appreciated.

I don’t want   “to  go  back  there”  !!!!!!!
Thank you   ..........................      TRAMM



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by Sarabie, Nov 10, 2011
Hi Trammann

Well it just takes time... I myself couldn't go for a walk etc for the first 2 weeks. You just need to let both body and brain adjust. CT is a shock to the system and it does take time. My suggestion is to relax. Don't try and force anything. Do stuff that normally makes you happy. Watch comedies, read books, eat chocolate or whatever works for you. I'm sure some of the others, can help you with suggesting helpfull meds if you'd rather try that. If it's the 9th time you do this, you must know a great deal about it? But just hang on. It's really worth it in the end.

I have just returned from a friends house. We had so much fun and laughed till tears dropped from my eyes. That's one of my favourite things about not being on trams. When something was really funny I just smiled and said "that was fun". Now I'm laughing again.

Tramsick - I made cinnamon rolls the other day, but they sucked. Will try another recipe in the weekend.

Icandothis - I don't like that you haven't posted for a few days. It worries me...

Stay cool everyone :-D

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 10, 2011
Tramman,

Sorry to hear about your suffering.  I don't think I have any answers for you - just offering some encouragement.  Withdrawal is the worst.

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by legaljunky, Nov 10, 2011
Tramman-  Stick with us!  It is so worth going thru the hell to get to the other side.
I did a slow taper. I remember my last 4 days of 40 mg Tramadevil and then my first 4 days of 0 Tram when I threw up, had diarhea, splitting headache, tummy ache, flu symptoms, hot flashes, chills, restless leg syndrome, unbearable anxiety, depression, raged at my poor husband for little or no reason, and couldn't "slow down" to focus on anything.  It was HELL but I did accomplish 1 thing- I DID NOT TAKE TRAMADEVIL!!!  And with each day off tram, YOU ARE MAKING PROGRESS!!!

I read thru pages of posts and learned coping mechanisms from others who went thru the same WD symptoms I had.  In the beginning, when my WD symptoms spiked, I got on the forum and wrote about it each time.  It helped me.

Keep posting! We're here for you!

Strength and love all of us- the Tram warriors!



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by fightorfight, Nov 11, 2011
Evening guys and gals,

Tramman-  Tram WDs are no walk in the park, as I'm sure you know.   There are some suggestions I posted above that might ease some of your pain initially--- and don't worry about the time.   I know thats hard to do especially in the throes of the acute stuff, but Tram WD gets harder to do the more times you "try", at least by some people's descriptions.   It still can be done.   10 days out is 10 days out, no matter which attempt this is for you to get off of them.   10 days of solid progress even if it doesn't seem like it.   I'm sure a lot of that has to do with sleep or the lack thereof, which certainly make the initial days worse.   Take care of yourself.  Vent.  Your body will find sleep even if Tram wont let you--- take comfort in that, it will get better.

Another day Free here--- kinda tough, energy is a problem, but that might be because I'm too nauseated to eat much.   Still made work happen, and I'm closer to another set of days off.   Hopefully those will be good ones.

Take care guys,
The Tired FoF.

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by tramsick, Nov 11, 2011
Oh Tramman, I feel for you.  I wish I could offer you some miracle cures, but I just have a few minor suggestions that helped me in the beginning. Try a calming tea, use a teaspoon of honey in it and just a teaspoon here and there for energy.  Stock up on some apples, bananas, fresh fruits and veggies will bind to toxins and help to remove them from your body.

Be good to yourself. Rest, even if it's not sleeping, rest when u can. It will help until you can get out and take some walks.  You'll know when you're strong enough for excercise.  Time is what it takes I'm afraid  the beginning can be so hard so hang in there.  Oh, and listen to the knowledgeable tapering people in this forum.  I did a CT, cuz tram was making me very ill when I ingested it.  I really wish I would've tapered and realized the sickness was probably withdrawal.  I was so naive.

Sarabie, are you making cinammon rolls from scratch?  Very ambitious.  I just popped them out of a can (Grands brand, cream cheese frosting) and popped them in the oven.  I'm a lazy baker.  I know you are not in the US, right? But I'm sure they have something similar in your country, if you are a lazy baker like me : )

Also worried about you icandothis.  Are you okay?





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by Icandothis10, Nov 11, 2011
Hi everybody!!  Sorry, I couldn't find my password and I tried to have it reset and the e-mail never came in.  Anyway, took, me a while to get back on here.  Thank you so much for your concern you guys....it makes me feel good that someone out there is worried about me.  Considering my extremely inconsiderate husband could care the hell less.

I'm still doing good.  Last week I had to take an extra half of a pill because I dropped too quickly.  However, still going at 6 pills a day.  I realized how careful that I have to be.  I can't rush this and I know that.  It may take me quite a few months but that's ok.  Hell, being in Kuwait for 6 months is perfect time to work and concentrate on slowly taking these dumb things down.  Looks like I'll just cut a qtr pill a week.  

How is everyone?  Ok?  Please say you are doing ok.  I don't want anyone to suffer out there.  Not my friends....

Love you guys....missed you too



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by Icandothis10, Nov 11, 2011
Cinammon Rolls?  I WANT SOME CIN-BUNS ROLLS!!

So, here I am....again.....I did order another bottle....for all of you that have read my first posts....CT is NOT an option for me.  I'm leaving for the middle east in a couple weeks and I have so much to do before I go....now I discovered that I may be headed for divorce when I return.  All this, and life goes on.

I get the joys of cutting pills in halves and qtrs and packing them to get ready to go.  I went through a REALLY hard time last weekend with the feelings of w/d.  I do have a question though.  The doc put me back on the birth control pill and as I was supposed to, I took it Sunday.  Does the BC pill cause serious anxiety??  I felt anxious all day and it was awful and it seemed like I was going through serious w/d but I had been on a stable dose and doing fine.  All I could think was that the pill just sparked some kind of anxiety.  So, I didn't continue.  I'd rather deal with silly little menstral cramps than that kind of anxiety and headache.  I'm not going to be putting my body through more that it doesn't need.  

I've noticed that my sleep patterns are much better since I've stopped shoveling these things in my mouth and even when you're tapering....stick with it!!!  You have to stabalize your body and not rush it into anything.  That's the only way to taper and taper properly.  Realize that it will take your body time to adjust and be VERY careful with yourself.  For all of those that are doing CT, bless you and bless you again.  I don't know how you do it, I think it personally takes a saint/warrior king to go through what you are going through.  I can lead convoys....but I can't go CT off this crap.  I can't

So, I am doing my little 1.5 pill dose four times a day.  Oh, and the doc pulled one my nerves out of my tooth and I have to go in for a root canal Monday (yippee).  I forgot which one of you said that when you used to get a bottle of pain killers, you would kill the whole thing in a day.  Well, so would I.  I got a bottle of Percocet for the nerve pain and....amazingly, only took two when I needed them!! Isn't that amazing how you can use medication for what it's meant for?  Yes, I'm proud of myself!  

Love ya'll

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by Sarabie, Nov 11, 2011
Tramsick - hehehe I'm no fan of processed foods or cakes. I make everything from scratch if possible. Even bake my own bread. When making tomato sauce, I'm actually using real tomatoes, carrots, herbs etc. It takes for ever, but it's worth it. Exept from cinnamon rolls... They were so bad LOL. But I like knowing what I put in my mouth (and still I popped trams like tic tacs hehe)

Icandothis... I'm SO relieved you are back with us. I have been worried sick. But I'm glad you are doing ok. A rootcanal... that's about the worst. I actually ordered my dentist to just pull the damn tooth out, when I needed it done a couple of months ago. It actually resulted in surgery but to me it was definately worth it. Too bad your husband doesn't participate in your taper. But I guess you have to try it on your own body to really understand.

I'm really tired these days and sleep a lot. I guess it's PAWS sticking it's ugly head up. Don't feel sick or depressed though. Just tired and a bit grumpy. Everything and everybody annoys me, but I'm good at hiding it - it's not everyone else's fault that I'm in this mood. Even though I kind of wish it was... Then I could really tell them off hehe.

All for now - take care out there !!!!!

Love Susie

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by legaljunky, Nov 11, 2011
Icandothis-I'm so happy you're still here, I was so worried about you too.  My heart goes out to you, you have too many huge awfuls going on at the same time.  Keep posting, I know it helped me and you know we care about you and want to be there for you.
During my taper I was SO awful to my husband, I wouldn't have blamed him if he walked out on me.  But we've had a good marriage (most of the time!) for 34 years, and each of us was dumped by our first spouses so I guess we put up with more bad behavior than some would.

I either have a bad cold or PAWS Tramaflu because my husband is in the hosp with diverticulitis.  He's coming home tonight and I assume that means I will get better!

You are all talking about yummy foods while I'm staying off sugar because I tend to be hypo glycemic.  If I eat sugar, and when I start I usually don't stop at just 1, I get food fog, tired and just feel awful.  There is just too much to do till the holidays are over so I'm trying to stay off sugar till after Christmas and then I will have 1 big binge!

I'm so happy to be Tram free and wish you all the same joy!  It's so tough to get here but so worth the fight!

Love and strength to all of us!



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by Icandothis10, Nov 11, 2011
I'm glad everyone is doing good.  Legal - Actually, I am not awful to my husband at all.  It's really the other way around.  It's a shame but also a statistic.  Unfortunately, now that I'm doing this taper thing, it's time that I start looking out for, thinking of, and taking care of ME!  Not putting him first only to have that taken for granted.  I have no choice now...I have to take care of me because if I don't, I won't succeed.  I don't need anyone else to do this, I need to do it myself.  Thank you everyone for the kind words though.

You all keep in mind I may not be around for about two weeks because traveling to the hole takes for---freaking----ever!!  Also, my only access to a computer will be a government computer and I don't want to access this forum on a government computer.  Does anyone have a problem if I e-mail them instead?  If not, I understand.

I take back what I said earlier, I'm down to 5.75 pills a day....may be for  a while....I'm going to do this!!!  

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by Sarabie, Nov 11, 2011
Icandothis - you are more than welcome to email me :-) I'll leave my adress in your inbox. And wow!!! Down to 5,75 is just amazing :-D hehe just realized that I have written your nick so many times that my iPhone rememberes it.

Well I found myself a cure for being so damn tired. Redbull :-D it's probably really bad for me but I really need something these days cause I need to work and since my work is to write, I need the energy.

Goodnight y'all :-D

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by gunitbot6, Nov 11, 2011
Hi i am wondering if masturbation slows down the healing of the brain during withdrawal/recovery. during withdrawals we have depleted neurotransmitters in our brain. masturbation and ejaculation can, and often times will, result in over-production of neurotransmitters such as acetylcholine, dopamine and serotonin. So is it possible it will slow down the new forming neurotransmitters?

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by gunitbot6, Nov 11, 2011
For anybody who has a lot of money and time and is addicted to Tramadol, there is something called iv amino acid treatment. It cost some where between $6000.00 to $10.000. It is a ten day treatment program that really works. It heals your brain and the withdrawals completely go away after the first 4 days. If i had the money i would do it asap. http://noraa.org/  i hope this helps somebody, thanks

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by Icandothis10, Nov 11, 2011
Hi Gunitbot - Um, I make pretty decent money....but I don't really think many here have that kind of money to do that kind of treatment.  If they did, many would probably have gone to an inpatient treatment or some other medical means to make their long suffering much quicker and easier.  It would be nice though....if I go to a hospital and plug up to something that would get me off this crap overnight while I slept, I'd be on it in a heartbeat.  And I'm not suffering nearly as much of some of these people are.

Love, healing, strength to everyone

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by gunitbot6, Nov 11, 2011
sorry for the 3rd post in a row. No body on here talks about recovery time and what can be done to shorten in. its always about how to help the withdrawals.  i would like to point out that amino acids are the building blocks to neurotransmitters. We deplete our neurotransmitters after using Tramadol for a while in high doses, amino acids help build neurotransmitters and a great source of amino acids is in whey protein, the kid that body builders use.  

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by rj0923, Nov 11, 2011
6 weeks ago i was at 9 pills when I first came to this forum 4 weeks ago i was at 6 pills I am proud to say I am now down to 3 1/2 going down a half a pill every 4 days was ok but then got harder when the doses got smaller. now I go down 1/4 a pill every 4-5 days. I just added 5htp to my supplements yesterday. it said to take 1 every 3-4 days until I am at 2 pills twice a day, so i don't know when i will feel anything, or what i should feel. I hope it does help with the seritonin like i have read  the forums. I have been on tramadol for 7 years and even doing a slow taper I have been  experiencing some depression and lack of energy these past 2 weeks and  I know it's from the lack of tramadol in my system. I will be off this slowly but surly. Funny, I have MS and my doctor put me on it for RLS and pain in the legs and that is one of the most common things you go through during WD....Go figure.  

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by fightorfight, Nov 12, 2011
Rj0923-  Keep it up, and good work--- I can't imagine a 7 year contract with this drug,   hell I was on it for a year and a half at my apex, and even then I was going through WD even between large doses of the medicine.   Good for you on your slow taper--- I'm sorry to hear about your condition--- have you talked with your doc about supplementing other medicines in its wake?  I know Ropinirole a dopamine agoinst, is prescribed for RLS and leg pain--- and something like Memantine would be neruoprotective.   I'm all for living easy and breathing better without pills, but to see someone like yourself suffer as a result of "help:", well it just angers me a bit.    Again, its all a suggestion--- and I hope for your continued success and recovery, however you go about it.

Icandothis--- I'm glad you're putting yourself first and foremost on your priority list, and I hope that the taper continues to be successful.   Slow goings is Okay, and 1/4th of a pill is still a step down--- I hope that your time away gives you even more clarity.   Good going.   Keep us posted :).

Sarabie - I've been doing those 5 hour energy things, which is essentially a Scientology cleanse in a bottle.  Aside from having plenty of Niacin flush, I'm at least productive at work.   Hope your energy level normalizes a bit :)

Gunitbot-   In the states at least man, there really isn't much that is approved for Tram recovery.    If you gave me access to a pharmacy and free reign of it for 2 weeks, I'm pretty sure I could get someone through Tram WDs with positive days thereafter.    There are plenty of drugs,  Stablon (Serotonin Reuptake Enhancer), Oxcarbazipine (Nerve stabilizer and protectant), various other empathogens, mild stimulants, SNDRIs, NMDA agonists and other things that I can't mention on this forum.    The means to speed recovery are out there in the world, but none of them are approved for such usage here in the States, and few if any of them are used in the rest of the world for such purposes.    France and Germany are the only two places that I know of that you can even use some of the drugs I mentioned in such a fashion.   Its a shame, but thats the way it is.

You are right about tryptophan and other amino acids being crucial for the formation of new brain chemicals, and I'm right there with you about making sure you keep topped off in that regard.    Since there isn't any legal drug prescribed in the States that forces the body to produce/release Serotonin (Aside from Tram), you just have to wait for your brain to heal to get going in the right direction again.  I wish it were easier than it is to get off these damn things, and then have life return to good/normal ASAP--- but its a lot of things working against you for mild gains with this medicine.     People are lucky to get clonidine or benzo scripts for this stuff--- and even then some doctors still believe that Tram is about as low grade as you can go for pain medicine --- and they're half right--- Tram's dopergenic action is weak.    If thats all this pill were, it'd be much easier to get off.

As to your initial post--- A lot of people notice two things once they get off Tram:   1)  They get hungry and 2) They get horny.    Thats a brain trying to get good chemicals to flow by any means necessary, and can be taken as a sign that your mind already knows its got some work to do.    The transmitters are there, its just getting the mind to release them naturally as opposed to artificially.     Don't know if priming the pumps helps at all, but hell, there are worse things you could be doing.      Also,   G-g-g-g-g-g- Gunit!  (Couldn't help myself).

Day whatever the hell for me,   I'm not sure, let the tracker do its thing.   Another day at work done and dusted, and tomorrow is my Friday--  Feeling pretty good.  

Hope everyone has a good weekend, and takes care of themselves.


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by Sarabie, Nov 12, 2011
gunitbot6 - I don't know if it's bad or good for your to masturbate while coming off trams. I just know that my body and mind craved sex and sugar, and I usually give my body what it wants, and I came through the w/d's a lot easier than some of my fellow worriors.

FoF - tell me about those energy things? My mom was actually a scientologist while I was a kid, but she doesn't know what it is.

gunitbot6 again - there's a lot of posts concerning recovery. This journal has been kept for almost two years and people start out talking w/d - then recovery when they enter. There's answers to everything in here as it's written by people who have experienced this on their own bodies.

jr0923 - how cool are you :-D That's just amazing progress!!!!! You are so close and we are here for your, when it get's tough.

Saturday today - it's a real fall day here in Denmark. The sun is shining, but it's cold like ****. My mom is making my favourite food tonight and there's Inspector Barnaby on the telly. I think it will be a good day. I'm trying very hard not to be grumpy hehe. I'll buy some redbull and see if it helps to get the job done.

Take care y'all.

Love Susie

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by Icandothis10, Nov 12, 2011
Sarabie - have you tried that 5 hour energy stuff?  It's actually pretty decent!  It doesn't give you that tingly wanna scratch your face off and throw at it someone feeling like Red Bull does.  

Slight brain zaps this morning...nothing major...staying steady....very steady.....got to be steady....effing trams.  Got to pop my....hold on here we go:  L-Tyrosine, B12, B6, caffeine, advil, L-Glutamine, vitamin and oh wait!!!  I have Percocets!  I'll use those only when needed though

gun - Recovery is in us all.  Recovery is right here on these pages and it is the people who type these words  If you're hunting the internet for the magic quick fix on how to drop tram with no uncomforts, inconveniences or any problems so you can just fly out of bed in the morning completely tram free and a "that was easy" smile, let me save you some time.....it ain't there my friend.  We've all searched and searched again.   Hell, if "priming the pump" (he he!  I like that one) helps, the definitely do what you need to to help with w/d.  I did read that somewhere else on a forum where someone ending up masturbating up to 12 times a day and that is what go him through opiate w/d.  You have to do what's right for you!  

Some people here are absolute hero/warrior/super people who can flush these things and go cold turkey.  I, personally worship the damn ground they walk on because if you read some of my earlier posts, I'm not a princess, I've been through absolute hell in my life but I, in no way, could go cold turkey off this stuff.  I had one full bottle of 180 tabs that I bought off the internet (I would purchase through a number of different sites so I had a bottle of 180 coming in every two weeks) and I would just abuse, up to 30-40 a day.  When I finally came clean to everyone, I thought I could use that 180 to properly taper.  Nope....I realized that I had taper very slowly.  I started at 20 pills and am now down to 5 3/4 a day.  I have a full bottle that I will need to take with me on my trip to Kuwait.  I may, just may even have to get one more before I depart and start cutting.  The lower the dose, the much, much slower the taper and I realize that.  Unfortunately, I will be in an environment where I cannot be going through violent w/d.....I don't mind feeling a little crappy but I cannot get deathly ill and that's what these things will do if I don't taper slowly.  VERY slowly

Welcome, Legal is the ring leader of this little Army, FoF is the walking encyclopedia, Sarabie is the class clown and I'm the one who tends to be on the less positive side....it works.....that's all I can say.  You either want off or you want to continue.  that's what we are all here to help you decide

Laters -

Dee



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by tramsick, Nov 12, 2011
FOF, just read a post from icandothis about birth control pills possibly causing anxiety.  Well, I'm supposed to go back on my Ocella BC pills soon and well, you know my history with anxiety in recovery.  I hear all this talk about redubulls and energy shots.  I can't drink a friggin cup of coffee without getting panicky.  Is there a problem here?  I took BC's before tram and during tram and didn't seem to have problems. I stopped taking them during w/d because I was so emotional and breaking down every day, I thought the hormones were making the situation worse.  Do you think BC pills could worsen my anxiety as did for icandothis?  Just thought I'd get your input.  BC pills are just so convenient, always worked for me. Glad to hear you are doing well and able to go to work and be productive.  I hope it helps distract you from your withdrawals.  How do you do on the weekends?

Icandothis, I'm sorry to hear about your problems with your husband.  I hope he realizes soon that you need to to be taken care of too.  That is what marriage is about.  I know you are very capable of taking care of yourself, but we all need a little help sometimes, no matter how strong we are.

Sarabie, I knew you weren't a lazy baker!  I am in the country of processed foods.  Actually, I'm very good about nutrition and cook whole foods for my family all the time.  I'm just a horrible baker from scratch.  We have apple trees on our land and I made some apple pies this past month that were okay, at best, but I tried!  If you ever come across a good cinammon roll recipe, share, and I'll try it :)

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by Icandothis10, Nov 12, 2011
Tramsick - I used to take the pill all the time....I NEVER had a problem.  The only time I had an issue was when they put me on the BC patch.  I was a wreck but now, I thought I could go back on the pill to lessen my cramps while deployed.  I'll take a freaking motrin, I was NOT feeling well after I took that first pill and I know it wasn't tram w/d because I was on the same dose for a week.  It was awful!!  I just said "nope, not doing these, I have enough poop going on with my poor body" so if I get a cramp, I'll pop a motrin.  No biggy

Don't be sorry....it's a long time coming.  I am not a man basher but my husband is selfish and inconsiderate.  Getting off tram cannot fix that.  He will be fine on his own.  It's actually a good thing, I don't have the strength to worry about him AND me.  I've always put him first, he has always put him first....so now, he can continue and I can be taking care of me.  It's ok, life goes on for us all.  I have to admit, I would like to know that the person who is supposed to love me is concerned about me.....he doesn't show any concern so I will be smart and worry about me for me ;-)

Careful with those silly BC pills Tramsick.....it messed me up....I have 8 packs of pills....useless.  I'm 37 years old so I know I don't have to worry about anything but cramps.  The anxiety just wasn't worth it

Dee

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by legaljunky, Nov 12, 2011
I'm happy to see so many people on board!  I am past the awful part of WD (I hope) but I know a lot of you are still in the thick of it and I remember how very hard and confusing it all is. Stick with us, keep posting, life is beautiful from the this side of Tramadevil!  

Icandothis- Sorry I read my marriage issues into yours.  Truth is, yours sounds more like my 1st marriage when I continued to let him emotionally abuse me till he left me.  You are stronger than I was and you are on the right track.
I remember at the end of my taper I had to stretch it out because it became more painful in every way.  I tapered once a week a 1/4 pill a day, which gave me 4 days of hell and 3 days of a little better. After 4 days of hell at 40 mg a day I stopped completely, had 4 more days of hell on 0 Tram and got a little better on day 5.  I couldn't have done that in Kuwait! You are good at finding ways to minimize WD symptoms. You are so resourceful!
  I have to say, I know we all try so hard to get off Tram and the experience is different for each of us and some just can't do it for a variety of reasons, but I see so much strength in you, so much determination, and I want recovery so much for you, maybe because you have been posting for as long as I have, and I see recovery and 0 Tramadevil in your future!  I hope that comes to you as hope and not pressure.
When you get to Kuwait I would love to stay with you by email, look in your inbox.  Would we be able to send you boxes of goodies while you're in Kuwait?

I think I am older than many of you, past menopause, have other health issues, and WD did not trigger anything new in sex or sugar.  I do remember doing a outdoor craft show last summer in Nashville, TN where it was so hot I thought I would die.  I was beginning my taper- long before I started posting.  They were giving out those 5 hour energy drinks for free and I felt so bad I figured it couldn't make me feel any worse so I drank it.  I felt better!  So I drank 1 every day there but haven't had any since.  The way the USDA and NIH deal with approving food and drugs I am becoming more wary of all of it and buying more organic.  Like so many of you, I cook everything from scratch. Except for pizza and Trader Joe brownie mix!

I'm feeling rotten with a bad cold, but so happy to be Tram free!  
Love and strength to all Tram warriors!

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by tramsick, Nov 12, 2011
Icandothis, I have to agree with legaljunky that you have a strength and determination that is admirable.  You are right to take care of you and I believe you are strong enough to do so.  I just really wish you didn't have to be dealing with possible divorce, tram withdrawals, tapering and going off to Kuwait all at the same time.  Sometimes life can really pile it on and it's seems so unfair.  Be good to yourself.  Take some long hot baths and get a massage.  Treat yourself.

As for the BC pills, I don't know what to do.  I'm one year older than you, married and don't want anymore children unless I get significantly better.  Anyway, I know of ther other options, so I will probably have to go a nonhormonal way.



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by Sarabie, Nov 12, 2011
Ok I definately have PAWS. Feels exactly like w/d's just not as rough. But a small tramaflue, tired and pain in the legs. But as the eternal optimist I am - it's not that bad. More inconvenient actually. The Redbull actually helps. I dont know what that 5 hours energy you guys talk about is :-( Tell tell tell

I have a slight pain in the kidneys and my first thought was that the infection was back - the reason I got on trams in the first place. But it's probably just PAWS. So I'm hanging on, writing, joking, talking, watching tv like I normally do. But I'll probably go to bed a bit earlier than normal.

It's kind of weird that even though we are all different, PAWS kick in at the same time. I read it would be on day 60-90-120 and that's true...But a few days of PAWS once a month is so much better than being addicted. Besides everyone else is having a cold these days and they are probably suffering more than I am.

Well Barnaby is on now, so I'll kick back and rest.

Love Susie

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by legaljunky, Nov 12, 2011
Hi Sarabie- Hope we feel better soon!  I didn't realize I was around that 60 day mark till you mentioned it.  Thanks! So it will hit me again before I have to deal with Christmas. Perfect!

This new stuff they were promoting in Nashville-- "5 hour ENERGY" is a 3 1/2" tall plastic bottle of awful tasting stuff, comes W or W/O sugar (mine was sugar free) and ingredients are: taurine, glucuronic acid (as from glucuronolactone), malic acid, N- acetyl  L tyrosine, LL-phenylalanine, caffeine (equal to a cup of coffee), citicoline.  It is distributed by Living Essentials, LLC,  Farm Hills, MI 48331

I'm not advocating this stuff, especially because there can be more stuff in the drink that is not listed on the label as long as it is less than 1%.

Hang in there, best buddies!

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by vicki624, Nov 12, 2011
i have been taking tramadol for 2 months now at 600mg. it is now day three off of them and i am still miserable. i cannot sleep and i feel like im on auto pilot. i just really want to feel normal again... i need advice to make it easier.


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by Sarabie, Nov 12, 2011
Ah ok :-) just checked it out. Not available in Denmark unfortunately. Guess it Will be years. Redbull just made it last year. It wasn't legal to sell it here. Some norwegian teenagers died after drinking vodka mixed with redbull. They Got caffeine poisoning. So it was banned in both Norway and Denmark. But we just bought it in Sweeden and Germany, costing the state loads of tax money ( yes we also have taxes on sodas and caffeinated beverages ) so they legalised it. But I don't see the five hour energy drink in any near future.

Bedtime now. Sleep tight and don't let 'em tramdol bite :-D

Love Susie

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by Maratara, Nov 12, 2011
Well, I said I would be back and I am , just a bit later than planned.

I am now on 25 mg twice a day (breaking the 100's) and I am almost ready to jump off...

good to read all the new posters, I will post again tomorrow as I get nearer to my last piece of pill.

Cheers:)

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by fightorfight, Nov 13, 2011
A quick one for me tonight, not because I'm feeling bad, but rather I'm actually going out.  Hah, whodathunk?  Yes, I do have the compulsion sometimes to read wikipedia, case studies, and dossiers in my free time-- but I'm not a total nerd.   Well, 3/4ths nerd and 1/4ths Titanium.   Not Iron Man yet, but I'll get there.

Tramsick-  I'd agree with Ican in this circumstance--- BC methods other than exterior ones affect your hormones as well as mildly directly effect your adrenal system.    Going through Tram WD, your adrenal system is sparked-in such a way that you can't count on it to give you the right reaction all the time.   Sometimes, the energy (adrenaline) is there and everything is a'ok--- and sometimes they just don't respond to you.   Hormonal changes would compound W/D in its acute and post-acute phases, insofar as their direct effect on your NoRep/Adrenal system.   It sounds like, along with what you've been going through, that your particular system may be pretty sensitive to change.     All of that stated, thats only for Now.    As you continue to recover, I'd imagine that the Pill, and other mechanisms would begin to be tolerated well again.     I'll happily differ to anyone else on the topic too, just in case there may be some people who have had positive reactions-
Being a guy, I only know what the chemistry tells me it would do, so please ladies, speak up.  :)

Sarabie- Legaljunkie is right--- they may make something similar in your neck of the woods.   Most of the ingredients listed are primarily filler/color and taste chemicals.   Caffeine is there for sure--- I referenced it as a "Scientology Cleanse" because it contains quite a bit of Vitamin B6 (Niacin)-- which is something that the organization uses (along with a myriad of other things I wouldn't recommend) in its detox centers and programs.    Niacin has a tendency to cause your skin to flush and feel hot, but it paired with Caffeine, can certainly provide you a little boost throughout the day.    I've been going through one every other day or so at work when I hit what used to be my "tram time"--- I'm essentially trying to trick my body into acting right.  ;)

Also Vicki-- Welcome, I'm coming off a similar dose and time.   I was on 400mg a day for 2 months, and had been on close to 800mg per day a year and a half ago.   The zombie feeling will fade, but its important that you take care of yourself now.    Some people have success with OTC medicines like Immodium, any DXM containing cough syrup, and Melatonin.   If you have a doctor that would be willing to write you a temp prescription for something like Valium or a Z-drug like Ambien, those also seem to help.     Writing here about your progress will help for sure-- and there are plenty that will offer better advice as to how to get through the "process" of coming off Tram.     Let it be known to you, right here, right now, that its not the end of the world.  It might feel like it--- but in a weeks time, you'll look back on those three days, and smile, knowing that you beat something pretty darn big.     Take care of yourself, catch some sleep even if its just for a few minutes, and hunker down a few more days.    You can see it through.

Alright gals and guys,  I'm out- -as to how I handle the Weekend, I guess this is when I find out.   Last weekend I had my family around for the Birthdays and all, so I had lots of things to do.    Hopefully I can be productive and happy this weekend by myself.    We'll see.

Take care :)



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by Maratara, Nov 13, 2011
This morning I waited as long as I could to take the 25 mg piece (not perfect estimates as I am breaking 100 mg pills). I think my plan will be to stay at this level for another week, just to really let my body get used to it, as I was taking 100mg a day for the last 3 months thereabouts.
I plan then to move to one 25 mg piece a day for the following week----and then OFF.

I am dieting at the moment also, as unlike so many users, Tramadol did NOTHING for my weight but keep me nice and fat. I am already down a few pounds which is great, but I have noticed that taking a THERMOGENIC (Oxy Elite Pro is one I am on) seems to be helping a bit with the tram-taper withdrawals. I am working out too, a little cardio with more emphasis on weights.

ANyways, I am here now to share the last (let us PRAY it is indeed the last) of my tramadol experience....and can't wait for it to be HISTORY.

I wasn't on it anywhere near as long  (or as much) as some of you, I started using it  (got boxes of it free from my pal) to help me get off my dependence in Nplus, but then I just started taking both tram AND nplus, lol. I am now in a good place with the Nplus, only taking a couple occasionally when I really need it, and NEVER for more than 3 days, as I know abusing this guideline is what got me in trouble in the first place.  I just need to transition off of the Tram now and start to live normally again.

Good Luck everyone :)

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by TRAMMAN999, Nov 13, 2011
I just want to thank all the people who gave advice, empathy and encouragement on this ....   s l o w ... recovery after going cold turkey. The consenses seems to be that it is going to be a slow recovery process. So difficult when one has gone through the trial of cold turkey to be rewarded with this. I suppose it affects people in different ways.
I have used a lot for a long time and therefore should expect nothing more than the way I feel. A weakness is that I am inpatient  -  that doesn't help. As people have pointed out will have to be patient and "go through it"  -  just as one went through cold turkey.
I must be honest though  --  5 capsules on my hand ready to pick up would take all this fatigue, cold and pain away. "What a dangerous thought !"       .....................     I guess that is what has actually happened to me in my past numerous relapses.
Thank you once again for your your prompt responses and support.      TRAMM

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by Sarabie, Nov 13, 2011
Damn I had a rough night. Somehow I suddenly got a toothache. There's nothing wrong with the tooth. Just been to the dentist. But still it hurt so bad that I couldn't sleep. Tried some voltaren that didn't help (of course they didn't - there's nothing wrong) Didn't fall asleep until 6 am. No pain when I woke up again. I think my brain is confused. I have surrendered to these PAWS and won't try to work today. Just sit, play "find hidden objects" games and watch NFL. I know it will be must better tomorrow, so I'm not alarmed hehe.

FoF - I'm sure you'll do fine this weekend. You are tough :-D

Legal - Is your husband home again?

Love Susie

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 13, 2011
I am new to this group although not the site.  I am a lurker/occasional poster.  
My story:  
Started on Tramadol because a "friend" said it feels just like real opiates, so since I have always loved that feeling but never had access to them, I ordered the tramadol to check it out.  Wow, 3 of these 50mg and I was in the best mood and just felt like being constructive.  During those first couple months I painted my entire house, but also spent money like I was a millionaire.  So, I stopped taking it CT, bad withdrawal because I was up to 9-12 50mgs every night, missed two days of work and really didnt feel like doing anything until I relapsed 3 weeks later.  From then on its been a crazy, I wish never happened, ride.  I decided (while high of course) I want to go back to working overseas (worked in Iraq previously) so I took a job that didnt even pay much more than the one I had.  Packed up my house, put it on the market, and left the US to work on a year contract.  I was in a not so great relationship at them time, but I just left her without even asking or talking to her about it.

So I land at my new location and INSTANTLY realize what the hell I did.  I was depressed beyond belief and replaced the tramadol with Kratom to wean off, then I actually went off Kratom for about 7 days.  Oh, I forgot to mention I managed to get a prescription for Adderall and I dont even have ADD.  So I was and have been taking adderall since maybe a week before I left.

Fast Forward 5 months: So, now I am a different area in the middle east, a not so safe area although I am safe on the compound.  However, I am now taking 20-40mg of adderall and 20-25 50mg pills a day just to hide the underlying depression and keep withdrawals at bay.  I was/am depressed about the decision I made to leave, how I messed up my relationship with my GF, how I basically stopped working out after 10 straight years of strength training.  I dont even get the euphoric high from any of it.  I just constantly think about how I am going to quit and get my life back.  However I am working at this job where I definitely dont have the rehab resources I would back home, its a 6 day a week job, and this whole thing is a secret besides telling my mother.  

I have this incredibly horrible relationship with the main Project Manager out here, the guy is a complete ahole but it only makes it worse when you are on these meds all the time.  I want to leave so bad but I get a $90k tax break if I stay overseas for 330 days out of 365.  Its a big break $$ wise.  That date is Feb 8th 2012.

My Dilemma/Plans:  
I have a 12 day vacation from Dec 1 - 12.  I am going to Thailand I believe, its cheap and not too far.  I want to do a CT detox from adderall and tramadol during this time.  But I will be alone and its going to be tough mentally to get through it.  But it is my only break until Feb.  I have clonidine, valium, all the thomas recipe stuff, but am afraid of the mental part.  I am going to take tramadol with me, I am on such high dosages that I dont want to go mental if it turns out to be too bad.  I have contacted a rehab center in Thailand as well, and they recommend I come to their 28 day program when I am able to leave my contract in Feb.  There isnt really anything available for just 10 days, I dont think I can just check into a hospital...?  Or can I?

My biggest fear is that I run out of tramadol before I can get to the rehab center and am forced into the withdrawal process here.  Since I am taking this cocktail of adderall and tramadol my brain is going to go into shock from the lack of serotonin, dopamine, etc.

Any ideas or words of encouragement?  I really really want to quit, but its too hard to taper on my own and I dont have anyone here I trust to tell in order for them to hold my meds.  I want to try to quit over the 12 day vaction, and try to deal with the acute depression the best I can when I have to return.  I think if I can get through the rough 5-6 days that the gym will be my resurgence.

Im sorry for the rambling, but I am sure you all understand how much you just want to unload all the stuff you bottle up and keep secret for so long...    

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by Sarabie, Nov 13, 2011
Beenherebefore:

You have no idea how sorry I feel for you. I too popped 20-24 pills a day. I too blew my lovelife. I too did a stupid stupid stupid job change. It says on the small note following each pack of trams, that they make you unable to make logic decisions. At least here in Denmark. I don't know if you have the same system in the States.

I guess it can be done in ten days in Thailand. Laying on the beach, listening to music, swimming etc. But it will be hell. There is no easy way out of tramahell. I tapered for five days. From 24 to 0 and then CT and I guess it took a good couple of weeks untill I was doing ok again. Since you plan on doing this on your own, make sure you can get online and post like a maniac in here. It means the world that you have someone to tell every little detail about what's going on. The w/d's will go on for about a week and then you'll slowly come back to life. But it's not easy. I'm 60 days off now and still not ready to work full time cause the physics act up and I get tired much quicker than before.

I fully understand your need to get off this poison NOW, but I don't know what would be the best for you. We have another warrior in here going to the middle east in December. Maybe the two of you should have a talk? She is tapering very slow and maybe that could be your way too and then go to the rehab thing in February?

But whatever you decide to do, stay with us in here !!! this forum is full of experts, as we have all felt it on our own bodies and know what you are going through.

Love Susie



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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 13, 2011
BeenHereBefore,

Personally, I don't think a 10-day withdrawal in a foreign country with no support is a good idea.  It took me several weeks before I felt like I could do anything, and it has taken almost 2 months until I felt ready to fly.  You're in a very tough spot.  We are here to talk and to lean on.

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by Icandothis10, Nov 13, 2011
Been here before....I'm not going to sugar coat it for my friend, from one person who does what you do (I'm leaving for Kuwait on the 11th) to another, you aren't in a good situation.

Ok, I'll give you my thoughts on this.  Here's the deal.  You are taking A LOT of Tramadol and your body is literally in need of it.  Where are you getting your Tram?  How much do you have left?  Are you purchasing it online?  That's what I did when I was in Qatar and I would use shipitapo website to ship it to me.  

12 vacation days won't really be enough for the amount of Tramadol you are taking.  I think you would have to wean down quite a bit and get your body used to having less before rushing into a program for 12 days.  The 28 day program would probably help much more.  However, I think you need to cut your intake at least in half or get to taking about 10 a day.   The whole point in tapering off anything is to keep the withdrawal symptoms to a complete minimum.  You need so much more time than even 28 days.  I've been tapering so far for two months and I am leaving on a 6 month deployment and I know that I'll probably be tapering most of it.  I have to take two full 180 tab bottles with me to taper slowly and properly.  I'm down to 6 pills a day....however, I've had to adjust (take an extra half pill here and there to feel better) and I started at 20+ pills a day.  

Please don't get discouraged.  This CAN be done.  My suggestion is you get online and purchase a bottle have it shipped to someone who can ship it to you or use the shipitapo site so you can begin to taper.  I was taking 20+ so start out by knocking out two pills a day to start.  Get yourself down to 13 then to 10 then 8 etc. etc....it can be done like I said but you need to understand...it takes time..

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by fightorfight, Nov 13, 2011
Beenherebefore,

Hey man, all the advice given above is perfectly suited to your circumstance--- a slow taper is going to be easier at that high a dose of Tram.    I do have some good news for you--- being a guy who has ADDi as well, I too am on a prescribed stimulant (focalin 40mg a day,  breaks on weekends and holidays).   I wasn't prescribed it during my first, terrible, WD phase.   Having gotten a pDoc in that middling window of a year between where I was and where I am.  

Stimulants (Amphetamine salts especially) and Tram don't play nice together.   That may actually be the reason that you're not getting much out of either of the drugs.    At such a high dose, Tramadol antagonizes the a-7 Nicotinic Acetylcholine receptor, ( a-7 activity is necessary for amphetamine to produce its desired effects).  It essentially nullifies the effects of your stimulant or at least the positive ones,  focus, concentration, peripheral stimulation.  Leaves you with the bad side effects:  increased anxiety, increased GI issues (heartburn a lot?) .   The Stims you take, unlike mine, are also metabolized by the CYP2D6 liver enzyme--- guess what other drug primarily uses that enzyme?   Tram.    You're effectively nullifying both drugs positives, and (Thank whoever upstairs) preventing you from seizing from such a high dose of Tram.  

It struck me, today, that this particular time off Tram has been, a relative, breeze for me.   Thats when I started to do the research.   As you wean down from Tram (1/4th a pill a week seems to be a magic number... but you may be able to cut more at your 20-25 dose).    The important thing, especially with taper strats is that you set your clock to it-- and abide by it.    Pills every few hours don't count,  Regiment.   Feel out your WD pattern when you can.   I know for me,  I'll get physical symptoms about 10 hours after a dose,  so if I was to taper, I'd take my broken up dose every 6-8 hours.    The sooner you get your body to adjust, the sooner you can make forward progress breaking it down, simply, and safely.   Just like the good ladies above me,  the slow taper is what I would recommend for right now.   Given what you do,  full blown Tram WD isn't an option---- and thats okay.   You need to make a plan and stick to it.    I'm not allowed to give a full blown Taper method on this forum,  send me a message here if you'd like and maybe I can discuss with you a bit more.   FOR RIGHT NOW,  know that this can be done with, and if you're smart about it, will not be the trek through Dante's Inferno that it may seem.  

12 Days?  Given your particular medical situation, and the other drug you're taking, as I explained above, I actually think you'd be able to get through the acute WDs.   I can only posit, based on my research and my experience this time around.   However, your Amphetamine salt mixture (Adderall is both the L and D amphetamine isomers in a 30/70 split) may actually turn out to be your saving grace.    Anything that inhibits that enzyme also inhibits Tram's metabolite  O-Desmethyltramadol from being produced in volume.   I'm not saying its going to be a walk in the park, there are stressors with serotonin and mu-opiod sites that NDRIs like the type that you and I are on don't address.      So you will feel depressed,  but----You will feel better physically than a lot of people going through Tram WD plain.   You'll find, as you lower your dose of Tram, (or in my case, stop it all together) your ADD medication will seem to slowly "work" better and longer than it has since you can remember.     In fact, these past few days, where I was fully expecting to be "blah" because of this journey--- I've actually been more productive and had a good amount of even energy.   Since I've been on Focalin for a while now, I didn't even think it would have anything to do with this----turns out I was wrong, way wrong.   Banker's Error in my Favor?  Sweet Christ I hope so!

All that being said-- Start slowly with this thing.    I know you want it gone now, and if you were in a different circumstance, it may be possible---- but as it stands, the Slow taper starting as soon as you can ready up, then think about doing the 12 days or waiting until you're done with your entire deployment.   Make use of this forum as a way to self-monitor--- we'll be cheering for you each time you do.   Tram has a habit of making you think that time is always against you, where its actually the other end of the story.    Time is your weapon against Tramadol, use it, wisely.

Good luck my man,  you have my respect for coming here and posting.   You can get through it.  

I'll post about later maybe about how I'm doing--- but I wanted to make sure I posted this for you.

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by fightorfight, Nov 14, 2011
I'd say my "weekend" went pretty well,  went out with some friends from work last night,  which I normally never do.  Always had a social anxiety problem but like a lot of people here--- sometimes just being around people whenever you're going through this has a way of taking the veil off things.   It was also nice to have a few drinks without worrying as to how bad I was going to feel an hour later (Alcohol for me at least, always seemed to kick start Tram WDs... not entirely sure why that is).   Made it home in the wee hours, and had a nice 5 hour sleep, which since I've been without the Seroquel now for about a week, has been the most sleep I've gotten in any one time.

Today, I was feeling pretty down in the morning, nothing physical, just... well, I'm sure you guys know, but just mopey.   No good reason for it, so I decided to run some errands, check off trivial things like clean out my Jeep (Drive a lot for my job..the inside of it looked like a recycling bin), restock on groceries, etc.   Keeping busy, and having a good CD or two in the car helped a lot.   Saw Beenhere's post, and as you can see above, that kept me occupied just doing research on Tram's interaction with stimulants.   I apologize for such a big post there,  I'm sure a lot of my "recovery" has to do with getting educated more about this and other drugs-- I guess it makes me feel like I'm chipping away at a mystery, or solving a case or something.    Hah, Armchair analyst at best--- and if I was part of Scooby Doo's team I'd probably be Shaggy.  :)

I actually volunteered to work overtime tomorrow, as opposed to having another day off.    I think, at least right now,  work is a way for me to focus on anything but Tramacovery.  I'm sitting up at 3 in the morning wondering if that was the right call, or if I should have taken the whole thing off-- try and recoup some.    I'm not sure, most of the little things I do to pass the time or enjoy the time don't seem entirely too appealing right now.   Leisure, for now at least, holds little in the way of reward.   I know thats part of this process, its just bumming me out fierce at the moment.    Joy will return to my life soon enough, I s'pose.

As far as medicine,  the Prozac has muffled the anxiety I expected to have,  the depression as you may infer is still a part of this regardless.  Its shaping up to feel like every other SSRI I was on, whereby it helped me to objectively look at things that made me depressed, but didn't give me any magic insight on how to fix it.  Its doing so in a much gentler fashion though, and my affect has remained pretty level.  Thankful though not to have brain zaps, and today where I don't take my Focalin, I've still got a mild amount of energy.   The dose of Klonopin I take (.5mg before bed) doesn't seem to make me tired like my pDoc said it would, I can't tell if its doing anything really- but I'll take it till I see him again in another week when we follow up on this whole process.    

So, thats where I'm at gang.   Hopefully I'll be in a better mood as the days continue and I get the opportunity to exercise a bit more.  

Hope everyone is doing well, or whatever approximation of that word that would apply.   ;)
-FoF

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 14, 2011
Thanks for all the advice, and it was actually comforting to know there are other people in my situation (being overseas) going through this.   @Icandothis10 - you are exactly right, I use shipitapo and even have them overpack it so when it comes my co-workers dont think I am getting pills all the time.  I was actually in Bahrain before this, and my IP address showed that.  One of the online pharmacies caught on and wouldnt ship to me.  So I would just order from any site I could find.  I have tramadol that came from India in all sorts of shapes and colors, who knows if its even legit.  I think I can get some in Thailand OTC, which I might do just to make sure I have enough to taper off (if I cant CT it) until I can get out of here and take the time off to withdrawal properly with support.  

@fightorfight - My GF had a script for adderall and thats how I intentionally tried it.  I however, really didnt like taking it that much, unless I just planned on studying.  I used to be a gym fanatic, and adderall killed my appetite and made it difficult to workout.  However, I noticed that when I take Tram or even Kratom with the adderall my appetite is better.  That is really why I took the combo, when I take the adderall by itself it tears my stomach up, however I really have never allowed myself to naturally just get used to taking it alone, and taking it during WDs is going to make the stomach pains worse.  However I did notice a big difference in my appetite when I took the Add with an opiate, esp Kratom.

Usually on work days, I have a cup next to my bed that has the adderall and tram in it so I take it first thing in the morning, I will even set my alarm an hour early so the drugs have kicked in by the time I have to get up.  I get Fridays off, and I kinda test myself and not prepare the meds.  I dont think a Friday has gone by that I havent gotten out of bed until 11-12am.  It is like a feat in itself, and I dont even know if the withdrawals are truly kicking in or its just my personal anxiety and depression that makes it so difficult.  
I know the anxiety of going CT off this dosage will most likely be too much to handle and i will cave.  However, if I can get through those 2 days where the anxiety is so fierce, I think I can do the rest.  From then on its like you are happy that the worst is over, and you feel like you can do it.  Its once you get completely clean that it becomes hard again.  You are just so bored and its like there is nothing in your life that is enjoyable.  If I can get to that stage, and just throw away my pills, I might be able to do it by getting back into my old gym routine.  It will be painful, and my co-workers are going to wonder what happened to the guy who had the energy of the energizer bunny, but who cares.  I will not see them again.  My health and mental well-being is more important than anything else.



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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 14, 2011
"its like there is nothing in your life that is enjoyable."

I know exactly what you mean - I'm in that stage right now.

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 14, 2011
Yea, the first time I quit I was only taking it at night as something to do after work and the gym.  Then when I quit, I noticed I would just stay at the gym because I didnt want to go back to an empty home and be tempted.  I would finally go home and take nyquil or something and try to go to sleep at 8pm.  I did get back into doing some yoga, that actually really helps. I did it alot when I was in Iraq to help with flexibility with my strength training and it did wonders.  I actually just got back from a class here.  

A big BIG part of my depression is how I let myself sink into this hole where I did nothing but stress out.  I never worked out, I just couldnt get motivated.  I lost all this muscle weight and just gained fat from all the cortisol you release when your stressed.  The longer you go without the gym the harder it is to get back in.  Today I made it into the gym over lunch, then yoga after work.  Until I quit the meds I will never really be able to truly train like I used to, but training and being in shape was a major booster of my self-confidence. It was an addiction in its own.  

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by Sarabie, Nov 14, 2011
Beenherebefore - I got my energy back when I quit the trams. In the beginning they gave me energy, but as the dose increased and was about 20 pills a day, I just couldn't find motivation for going to the gym or do any other form of training. But now it's back and I love to work out and feel my body again. So the motivation will probably come by itself. Both because your brain is begging for endorfins and because you need to do something with all that energy.

My PAWS are gone again - as quickly as they turned up. No aches or pains, Not tired anymore. I have been working for 5 hours today and have been to a friends house. Also managed to play some tennis, but only half an hour. Making vegetable soup now. Potatoes, onions, springonions, Jerusalem artichoke, parsley roots, carrots and parsnip. It's all boiling now and can't wait to eat it. I'm sure my body will love a good vitamin boost.

FoF - good to hear you had a nice weekend. I got so extremely tired when I had alcohol on trams. And the hangovers... brr...

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by vicki624, Nov 14, 2011
its now day 5 without tram and i was able to sleep for a complete 4 hours!!!!! yay im getting there!
HOW LONG WILL IT BE TILL I CAN SLEEP THROUGH THE NIGHT?

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by loopey2u, Nov 14, 2011
Oooh, that soup sounds good Sarabie.  

Good luck BeenHere.  It sounds like you're getting a plan, and post, post, post if you feel it helps you.

I am still at 4 a day, along with 5 mg. flexiril at night.  My neck is still bothering me, but I am going for an epidural cortisone shot at c7-T1 on Wednesday and I can't wait.  Hopefully the pain will be gone afterward and then I can get off the damn pills.  

Here's my plan, what do you think.....

4 pills today, then the muscle relaxer at night.

Same tomorrow.

Wednesday I'll miss my morning dose because I can't eat/drink anything after midnight.  I'm going to try to hold off till my 1 pm second dose to take anything.  That'll be 2 pills that day.

Thursday I'll take 1 in the morning and 1 in the evening.  

Same Friday.  I'm expecting to feel kinda crappy at that point, so I'll start back up on my Prozac on Friday too. (40 mg)

Saturday, no more tram, just continuing with the 40 mg. Prozac daily.  I'll just stay on the Prozac then, the only reason I'm off of it now is because I'm afraid of seizures/seritonin (sp) syndrome from mixing the tram and prozac even though the doctors told me it was OK to combine the two.

Do you think I'll still feel like crap doing it this way?  The opiate part I plan on fighting with the Immodium AD.  If I have to take it for a few days no biggie.

I'm just scared of brain zaps and the way I felt when I stopped taking it only after 2 weeks.  That was really horrible.  



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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 14, 2011
I am prescribed Lexapro, but like you loopey2u, I skip it a lot because of taking the tram and the risk of seizures.  I get brain zaps even now when I am on tram (mornings or night), I think its because my body is getting off the lexapro because of how randomly I take it.  Although I also get them when I take this pre-workout drink NOXplode, very weird.  It has to be a combination of stimulants, tramadol, and all the crap in those workout drinks.  However,wWhen I cut the tram down the lexapro will be back on, it really did a good job of managing stress.  I actually bought Wellbutrin online because I heard it helps get off opiates.  I honestly have an entire arsenal of withdrawal supplements and meds that I have ordered over the months.  Even this stuff that is injectable, PHOSPHO DSIP Delta sleeping inducing peptide I ordered off Irondragon.com.  I obviously havent used it, but apparently it is useful for battling opiate cravings. It is a legit website as I have used their products, however, I am not about to inject myself with anything unless a doctor approves it.  I ordered it while on tram.

Sarabie, you are right about the tram.  At first it gave me energy to do anything... besides the gym.  Now, its like I feel it a little in the morning, and then I just feel crappy because I know I am on 8million mgs of tram and cant even feel it.  Its like a gray cloud over your head, you know you have to get off but you are damned if you do and damned if you dont (short term at least).  By the end of the workday I am crashing off adderall and tramadol and just want to lay in bed and pretend none of this is happening.

I am not suggesting any other drug to help with withdrawals, however, when I was taking tramadol for awhile I ran out and instead took Kratom.  Its an herb from Thailand that is illegal there, but legal in the US and easily obtainable.  It doesnt give you that complete Tram "nothing matters in the world" feeling but it does feel very much like an opiate.  It doesnt last long but I was able to switch to that without any WDs besides some mental ones.  However, I did quit the Kratom and found it to be easier, however I just got overseas and the depression of my whole situation got the best of me and I started it all back up.  But in a responsible environment I wonder if it could be used as an aid to wean off tram and harder opiates...  

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by loopey2u, Nov 14, 2011
I have read about the Kratom, but I'm scared of it.  On the news there was a report about a kid making poppy tea and he ended up dying from it.  I know it's not the same thing but it makes me scared to mix my own stuff up if you KWIM.

My big thing with going off of this is I don't want the Effexor-like WD's.  Those are horrible.  I could care less about the opiate part.  If I want a buzz I'll have a few drinks.

I think my pain management doctor is annoyed with me, but I'm scared to mix stuff.  I don't think he believes me either, but here's why I'm scared to mix anything now..

Last year I had major surgery.  The morning after surgery they came around with meds, and gave my my prozac, a lortab and xanax.  I don't know why they gave me the xanax.  That's my "rescue" if I get a panic attack and calming myself down doesn't work.  I rarely take them.  Probably because it was on my list of meds that they have you write down they gave it to me anyway?  I dunno.  Anyway, I remember laying there thinking "why the hell are they giving me this?  I'm just laying here watching TV, it's not like I"m having a panic attack or anything.....Plus, I was still hooked up to the morphine pump.  Oh well, I figure they know what they're doing and take it anyway since I hadn't really slept the night before and was hoping it would let me sleep.

Fast forward 20 minutes.  I start feeling really weird.  I lay there, trying to calm myself down, and it wasn't working so I pressed the nurse button.  Nothing.  I press it again, nothing.  I started feeling like my heart was beating really hard and fast, like it was going to beat through my chest and I was going to pass out.  Anyway, I pulled my IV out and went into the hallway. I don't know how I even had the strength to get myself into the hallway but I did.  The nurse station was right by my room, so the nurses saw me right away.  First they yelled at me to get in my room.  I told them I need help NOW, so 2 of them came and put me back in my bed.  They took my vitals and sure enough my BP was through the ROOF and my heart was racing.  Like 180 bpm.

At this point I was hysterically crying and they must've called a doc. because one came right in.  They assured me I wasn't going to stroke out or have a heart attack and the nurse sat with me for a few hours to make sure I was OK.  I was fine after that, but my BP was still high a week afterwards when I followed up with the surgeon.  

That was scary, I never want to feel like that again or have that happen again and that's why I won't mix meds.  It creeps me out even to type it.  

I even put off this stupid shot because of the twilight sedation.  Again, I could tell the PM doc. was annoyed so I'm going through with it this time.  I would prefer no sedation but he reccommended it, and I agree because he is messing with my neck right near my spinal cord.  If I jerk it wouldn't be good.  

Sorry for the book, but meds scare me.  Maybe I need to get my head examined....lol

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 14, 2011
Kratom isnt the same as poppy pods.  You can easily OD off naturally growing poppy pods, it is morphine.  

Kratom hits some of the mu receptors that opiates use, I dont know all the medical jargon, hence the similar feeling.  Most people make it with tea or just throw the powder down their throat and chug it down with some juice, the stuff tastes awful.

I had the capsules, which was good and bad.  Easy to take, but easy to take a lot of.  You cant keep taking it throughout the day like any other drug, all it does is give you a headache and mess with your stomach.  However, it does relieve the mental and physical symptoms, but it is most likely postponing them.  But I think if you are tapering, kratom could be useful to aid as a transition when you get to the lower dosages or tramadol.  I dont think people know much about Kratom, its expensive which is probably why people stick with the harder stuff.  For an herb it does work, looks like ginseng or something.  I really think more research should be done with Kratom.  

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by Sarabie, Nov 14, 2011
loopey - I can't help you on the whole mental issue from your taper, as I didn't get any depression. But the physical. I think it sounds like a good plan. But you will get w/d's like fever, shivers, hot/cold flashes, stomach ache, headache and all the other flue symptoms. The good news is that they won't last as long as a real flue. Just don't make any major dinnerplans or stuff like that, for the first couple of days. If it's an option, then plan it and buy your favourite treats, find your favourite movies and books and stay in bed for 2 days.

Best of luck !!!!!!!!

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by stayingthecourse511, Nov 14, 2011
.Hi I am 57 year-old female, in good health, but afraid of running out of Tramadol! I have used Tramadol since October1 to help me get off of Suboxone (a "detox drug," which I took as a "maintenance medication @2mgs/day for 3 years)which got me off a mild year-long Oxycodone habit). It's almost impossible to stop Suboxone, period. It's a Long-Acting Opiod Agonist, which is just med-speak for "some really sticky dope." It stays in your system 14-17 days, EVEN IF YOU WEAN OFF TO, like, .5mg/day! So, here I get this idea, that, if I "leapfrog" over that 2-wk period using Trams instead, it won't hurt as bad. OK, so that DID work. I used 300/mg for 3-4 days, and WEANED, WEANED, WEANED the Tram to where I am now down to just 25mgs/day for the past 4 days. But, I found myself kinda/sorta drug seeking more Tram after the 2 wks. I told myself I would only be on it for...My Primary only gave me 15 more tabs. ANYWAY, to make a long story short, yesterday, I had a "meltdown" in the morning from weaning off Trams I guess and went ahead and popped another 50mg after my 25mg. HERE IS WHAT SCARES ME, GUYS--I WAS A BRAND NEW GAL!!! When just minutes before my husband had been hiding in a corner from my outburst. So, I said "HELL, no...If I don't stop Trams cold right now I'm gonna be hooked and sorry." So, I stopped cold. Yesterday (Sun. at 11am was my last 50mg dose.) PLEASE TELL ME I AM GONNA BE OK jumping off at the 25mg/day point, and that this is all in my head. I do not want any more addiction/dependence on opiates/opioids because I NOW KNOW IT IS ALL THE SAME STUFF--IT'S ALL FREAKIN' DOPE! How long will I feel cruddy now? I only took this stuff for 2-3weeks...How many days till I feel functional after jumping off Trams at 25mgs/day? Thanks in advance and I really appreciate any advice.

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by loopey2u, Nov 14, 2011
Hi Stayingthecourse.  Damn, all that from .25 mg???????  Wow.  This stuff needs to be taken OFF OF THE MARKET.

I had a similar incident, only being on it 2 weeks and only 200-250 mg. a day prescribed by my doc. and well within the allowed dose and I also felt like $#1T when I stopped taking it. At first I thought I had the flu till the electric shock sensations started, remembered my stint with Effexor many years ago, then I went online and found this place and figured it out.  My sister (who is a pharmacist STILL thinks I'm nuts, but I know what I felt)

Stick with it.  Play mental games with yourself if you have to and POST, POST, POST to get yourself through it.  There are some really great people here who will help you out.    

Can you go to your doc that gave you the Tramadol and let him/her know what's going on?  Don't do this alone if you don't have to.  

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by Icandothis10, Nov 14, 2011
BeenHere - I've heard the same about Kratom but I've also heard that it is addicting due to how it does what an opiate does.  I have heard that it can work wonders for getting off opiates though.  Be careful my friend....seriously.  You need to understand now that you have indeed altered your body to where you need trams.  You can't just stop and get back to normal overnight.  It took me a while to accept the fact that for the next year or so, I will be weaning and recovering from what I've done to myself.  So instead of continuing shoveling these in my mouth (up to 30 a day) for the next year, I can work on being very careful with my body.  You need to be careful at the gym too.  You also need to take FoF advice and thank your lucky stars you haven't seized.  I know what it's like to be there....the place *****.  However, there is nothing to do but work, work out and sleep.  USE THAT.  I kind of cannot wait to get to Kuwait next month so I can seriously take advantage of the routine time and my taper.  You CAN do it.  I think you need to start now.  You can take your dose down quicker in the beginning.  Start by taking about 18, next day do 15, next go down to 13, then 12, 11, and then like FOF said, experiment.  That's what I did and I'm down to 5.5 pills a day and I KNOW that the next 6 months in the mid-east will be slowly tapering....I did have to order another bottle....listen, leave me your e-mail address in my inbox, and I'll e-mail you.  We will be in the same time zone so you and I can work together.  Trust me, you need the company....I know this.  Like you, I purchased all the supplements to wean and kept telling myself that I'll use them when I'm ready.  Well, I finally had to come clean, and I realized that also that having the pills shipped to me on this deployment won't be as easy like it was on my last deployment.  Before, the sites took any type of credit card and UPS didn't require a signature.  Now, they ONLY take Visa (I have a Mastercard) and the sites are just making getting them a bit more difficult.  It won't be long before shipitapo starts to put policy against shipping pills overseas....trust me, something will happen somewhere.  Then what?  We're screwed!!  I didn't want to be over there only to have something happen where I couldn't get my pills.  I just knew it was time to stop.  I have a full bottle now and may even order one more to ensure I have plenty to wean with.  Remember, I realize that the weaning process, even off of 5 is going to be so slow.  I also had to experiment and adjust.  If I felt bad after cutting a half pill, I'd take a little more to get rid of the w/d's and realize that I can't rush this.  Your body will let you know.  Especially if you're taking other meds on top of it.  Hell, I had a problem taking the damn birth control pill with trams.  It's just some medicines can seriously cause problems when mixed with tram.  You HAVE to be careful, your body won't let you continue to do what you're doing forever.  
It's not hopeless but I do NOT recommend stopping CT, especially if you're taking them first thing in the morning.  Let me know if you want me to e-mail you when I get in country next month.  

Staying - Have you tried taking some advil and some of the supplements in the Thomas recipe?  That may make you feel better.  Maybe you should continue to take the 25mg and then slice a little off the pieces with a razor blade and wean it down a bit.  Also, I have read a lot about suboxone....I heard it's absolutely awful to get off of because of how long it's in your system.  Some say that it saved them others said it was the worst thing they ever took.  You are right though....this is all dope.....when they call, e-mail and we order online....they are legal drug dealers.....that's the truth.  I realized I needed to stop when I completely panicked at the thought of suddenly running out of tramadol...it is a very scary thought.

I had a root canal tonight and took a Lorcet as prescribed.  I think it helped in taking my dose down a half pill tonight.  I hope it can stay that way.  If not, I'll take the qtr pill and just continue to experiment as I have been.  I'm getting there....it's slow but it's also working!  

Night all!!

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by Bobbie678, Nov 14, 2011
Hello, I am new here. I am hoping you can help me. I am 51 years old, & have been on Tramadols for about 4 years, I think. I am not sure what my problem is. I was diagnosed with Lupus, & the doctor found it when I complained of my joint pain moving from joint to joint. She perscribed Tramadols for me, as needed. I found that these pills give me ENERGY! I had been walking an hour a day with my dog, & found I became Superwoman on these things. I began cross country skiing, & would hike for hours on the weekends. But along with my extra-excercise, my mind started to mess with me really bad. I mean, it is so bad I can hardly work sometimes. I cannot stay focused on one thing long enough to complete it. I hide from people, do not want to talk. Sometimes the words will not come to my mind when I am tired. My sex drive is gone. I lost all creativity. I had leanred to pinstripe, to gold leaf, & other artistic mediums, but can't do them now.

I am not sure if it is the Tramadols, or finding out I am postmenopausal (I am currently starting estrogen & progesterone pills). I have always taken 1 Tramadol a day, but on weekends I take up to 2, maybe 3 a day on a BIG excercise weekend. I know, after reading what all of you have been taking, I am afraid you will scoff at me. Please, please, take me seriously. I have been all over the internet for the past year searching for an answer. I know of all things to be addicted to, I have a sugar addiction I battle, & I know it can mess with your head too, but this is SEVERE. I have even had brain scans, nope, nothing showed. I seem to be Attention deficit, short term memory loss, had my thyroid checked, no lyme disease either. And some of you are saying that the tramadols put your emotions on hold? That is ME. I have been dealing with a lot of heavy duty things going on in my life, but I cannot cry when I TRY to, just to get  relief. I am excited to find this site, I hope you can help!

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by Sarabie, Nov 14, 2011
Hi Bobby and welcome :-D

It could very well be the trams that mess with you. Like Beenherebefore and I agreed on earlier, tramadol gives loads of energy. But then there comes a time where you either increase the dose untill you really can't function normally or you stay at the same dose but loose the energy because your body has developed tolerance. Looking back I can see that I also isolated myself while popping trams. It was like "I'm perfectly happy just sitting here doing my stuff, so please dó not disturb". So it could be the tramadol that changes you. I'm very social when I'm myself and I have been out more these last two months off trams than the entire last year on trams.

Beenherebefore - Icandothis is right. A slow taper is the the easiest way and probably the safest. But the CT can be done. I'm not saying I Think you should dó it that way, but if you just want off it NOW, it is possible. It's hard and it *****, but it's possible. My main concern about you doing CT is if you can manage your job after only ten or twelve days. It might be too hard and you end up taking trams again just to be able to work. We were on the same dose and I couldn't have started work again that soon. There's a lot to think about. If you were home I would absolutely recommand the CT. But in Thailand and then middle east...

The soup was perfect by the way :-D Think I'll bake a chocolate cake tomorrow. I need a baking succes after those crappy cinnamon rolls :-D

Night y'all. Love Susie

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 14, 2011
"Looking back I can see that I also isolated myself while popping trams. It was like "I'm perfectly happy just sitting here doing my stuff, so please dó not disturb"."

Susie - I did the same thing.

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by Icandothis10, Nov 14, 2011
FoF - I have a question for you.  As you know, I've been tapering.  I went down from 6.5 to 6 and then the very next day, 5.75 and then 5.5 all in the matter of a couple days.  I just sat to watch some tube and felt that blank feeling in the back of my head and a little anxiety (a decent amount for me to notice)  Welp, I said heck with it, and I took a lousy qtr of a tablet.  All of sudden...BETTER!  Is it really that potent on the body?  I'm healthy pushing 40 and apparently, trying to trick my body into robbing it of the smallest amount of tramadol catches up with me.  Is a lousy qtr of a tab really that important to my body?  I'm just amazed.  I know I have to take it slow and each time I try to drop a little more, my body notices it.  I guess the qtr tab every 7 days is pretty much the way it needs to be huh?  I'm just surprised, a lousy .25 of a 50mg tab makes such a big difference.

I can't suffer, I just cannot.  If I could, I'd dump them CT but with everything I have going on, the misery isn't an option.  Guess as much as I try to fool my body, the strict taper will always win.  hmmm.....

so everyone, I take that back!  I'm not at 5.5, I'm at 5.75 and I may even need to take it up to 6 if I get really anxious and then take it down again slowly....is that a bad thing?  Is that considered relapse or something?

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by fightorfight, Nov 15, 2011
Evenin' Ican,

Honestly, thats not out of the way--- I wouldn't worry,  everybody is a bit different as far as tapers are concerned, and more often than not, everyone hits what would be considered a wall, whereby you have to stay at a particular dose for longer than normal, as your body continues to adjust.    

Think of it this way.   Even though you are doing a taper, you are still essentially doing a C/T from whatever your dosage was before--   Minimal WD, but still WD. Thats an important thing to remember,  tapers are meant to ease you back into something else, but the word "ease" with Tram is really just another word for "less than miserable, but still functional".  In order to come through it in the end, your body and mind have to go through WD---tapers are set so that the WD is manageable. Remember how long it takes to get through the acute WDs? 7-10 days.  Thats why you get the recommendation of a 1/4th every 7 days, and of course thats a general assumption that your body is one that adapts better and is on the 7 day range, as opposed to the 10 day range.   Then again, there are people who get through them in 5, or 13 days.  Variety is the spice of life, even in regards to coming off this drug.    

You're already down below the maximum recommended dose per day--- so being sure that you take it slow, steady, and on time means you're going to lift yourself out of a CT withdrawal pattern.   Every step down should evoke a mild sense of WD, whatever that happens to be for you (Blankness/anxiousness) for a day or two and then you feel better for another 5 days before you do it again.   Another member of this forum, in some earlier journals, noted his particular taper went something like that-- until he got down to 1 a day.  He went C/T at that point, fully expecting the hurricane of Tram W/D, but really only had the symptoms of a "step down" through his taper.     It eventuated that he never got full blown WD, having trained his body and mind to recoup throughout his taper.

1/4th of a pill may seem pretty rinky-dinky, but with Tram, since its a longer half-life drug--- its really all about concentration levels in your system.    Thats why its a good idea to make sure you're taking your doses as close to clockwork as you can---- that way you stave off bigger WD symptoms, and "ease" your body and mind in to regular operation with a lower peak concentration level of O-Desmethyltramadol.  

I have the utmost respect for anyone doing a taper, because it does require that you get "ok with not being ok" for a few days out of every week.     The end result, however, should bring you to a stop without causing you to go apoplectic .    By the sound of things, you may just have started dropping a bit too fast--- getting back to level ground is fine.    

All that being said,  don't focus on it too much.   Set your dose, time, and taper day, and go on with your life.   Its going to be alright.

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by Sarabie, Nov 15, 2011
have the utmost respect for anyone doing a taper, because it does require that you get "ok with not being ok" for a few days out of every week.

Me too FoF - personally I would go crazy. One week of pure hell and then looking forward was the only option for me.

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 15, 2011
fightorfight - Have you heard of Phospho DSIP?  The link to the product is  http://www.iron-dragon.com/product_info.php?products_id=119  You seem knowledgable and I want to know what your thoughts are.  I actually ordered these, they come in a vial, very professionally packed, with white crystallized powder substance in it.  I assume you add some sort if liquid to it, otherwise I dont know why it would be in a vial.  I have ordered products off this site before for weight training, and their products seem legitimate.  

I am going to start the taper instead of spending $4k on a 12 day vacation in which I will be completely miserable the entire time while trying to go CT off the amount of tram I am taking.  I will go CT eventually, but i would like to get down to 10 pills, be back on a routine gym schedule, and be ok with feeling a bit down and out for awhile.  

The nights are going to be tough, I have a tendency to take the 2nd dosage when I get home from work.  I dont even really feel it because I have already taken 12 pills that morning, but its just the temptation that it will somehow give me that euphoria that i chase.  There is a yoga class here on Mon, Wed, and Sat.  Yoga really helps ease the mind and keeps me busy for an hour that night.  My co-workers invite me to play poker or go to the one bar here, but I never do.  Like many of you I have become very unsociable.  By the time nightfall rolls around I am coming off the adderall and tramadol and just dont want to be around anyone.  I feel like I just worked a 15 hour day.  I know its a combination of the drugs wearing off and the stress I put on myself everyday thinking about this stupid addiction I have.  Not an hour goes by that I dont think about it....

This might be a little too personal for some but have any of you completely lost all your libido?  Between the Adderall and tramadol I have zero sex drive.  Before I was on this it was the complete opposite.  I think the lost of libido is another reason why I find it difficult to workout, its like I just dont even care about my appearance as much.

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by legaljunky, Nov 15, 2011
Hi Bobbie- Welcome! You have come to the right place! I've been posting for months and I have come to feel like you- the most tramadol I ever took was 4  50 mg pills a day, as prescribed by my Dr. for Lyme disease related arthritis.  I never had to deal with all the huge problems so many of my new best friends here have, but never the less, I was just as addicted to Tramadevil as everyone else. I took myself down to 300 mg a couple months later (after foot surgery when I was temporarily on something else) and then down to 200 mg after I had surgery on the other foot.  I'm sure your Dr., like mine, told you it was unlikely I would become addicted to Tramadol.  When she took me off Tramadevil I got so very sick I knew something was big-time wrong and I got on the net and found this life saving forum.

First I have to say-  Even tho all your Lyme tests came back negative, you may have Lyme disease. When you are bitten by a tick carrying Lyme disease  and all the types can carry it, not just deer ticks) it takes 6 weeks or so for it to show up in a blood test.  Then it remains in the blood for a short period of time and then goes into your tissues and no longer can be found in a  blood test.  And many adults never have a bulls eye or any other kind of rash.  Your joint pain is called migrating arthralgias, I had it too.  At this time only a "Lyme literate Dr." would recognize it.  I went from Dr. to Dr. till I finally found a local (NJ) support group who told me what Dr. would help me.  Unfortunately I obviously had had it for years so it did a lot of damage to me, including permanent brain damage.

Lets hope this is not your situation!  But if it is, I will try to help you explore it if you like.

So--- back to Tramadevil-  I did a very slow taper down from 200 mg (I'm now on Voltaren for arthritis instead of Tram).  I read pages of posts till I figured out how I wanted to taper and read from everyone else what supplements I wanted to take to make my WD a little less painful and just did it. It twas pure HELL!  But I got there and I couldn't be happier.  I am  on other meds for all the damage Lyme had done so I was worried about Seratonin syndrome (suicidal Ideation) from mixing some of these drugs.  But now that I see how much of the drugs others were taking, I probably was never in danger of that or seizures, and I never had brainzaps.  I remember the times when I wanted to cry and wondered why I couldn't.  And unlike so many Tram fighters, I never felt high.  And with all the drugs I am on for Lyme related problems, I just don't drink alcohol.  But I drink coffee- my drug of choice!

For years now I have been on 75 mg Elavil, 20 mg Lexapro, and 2 mg Clonapin daily, and then added the Tramadevil about 2 1/2 years ago. (I don't know how to spell any of these words!)

I am amazed how many of us here are artists!  I am a fine-art jeweler and I can look back and feel I came up with very few new designs while on Tramadol.  And certainly while beginning my WD I just had to settle for just getting thru the day, 1 minute at a time some days.  No creativity and absolutely no acetyline  torch!

I found so much caring, understanding and help from this wonderful forum.  So post often. We want to be there for you. In the beginning I posted a few times a day, whenever my WD spiked and I felt better.  And by the way- I'm 67!  We're never too old to become addicts!!

I think I'm getting over a bad cold and PAWS at the same time.  At this point my main problem is that my eyes are so puffy, I look worse than I feel!  Oh well.

Icandothis- You gotta do what you gotta do.  I'm so glad there are such knowledgeable people like fightorfight to help.  You are amazing!  It sounds like getting off your last few pills will not be unlike me getting off my little dose, but I can spend the day in bed if I want!

Love and strength to all!

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by Sarabie, Nov 15, 2011
Beenherebefore - it will come back ;-)

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by tramsick, Nov 15, 2011
Beentherebefore, listen to our brave tapering experts out here.  I went CT about 3 mos. ago and would not recommend it.  I went through hell and just beginning to feel back to normal.  You WILL get there.  Yoga is GREAT excercise at this time in your life.  It's important to care for yourself and get some light excercise and the calming effects of a yoga workout will do nothing but help you.

I haven't posted for awhile because I've been feeling SO much better for consecutive days, which is unheard of for me.  Didn't want to jinx it.  I'm nearing my 90 day free mark, can't believe it!  Anyway, went back to the gym yesterday and did a full workout, and felt fantastic.  I'm so happy I could cry, and finally, not the kind of tears I've shed these past 3 months.  Thanks to everyone for all their support.  I'm staying positive and hoping that tram has finally let go of my mind, heart and soul.  It's been a war.  Keep fighting everyone!  Love and strength to all!

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by tramsick, Nov 15, 2011
Tried the tracker thing, finally, hope I did it right.  What do you know, today is 90 days!

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by tramsick, Nov 15, 2011
HA! Now I get it!

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by Bobbie678, Nov 15, 2011
Oh my gosh I can't believe this!!!! Beenherebefore- I  have no libido! When I look back, I remember feeling a bit numb to feeling while being with my husband while on the tramadols. Now there is nothing! I WANTED to feel those feelings last nioght, as a matter of fact, NOPE. They were not there.

I am afraid of going cold turkey, even tho I am home, & my shop is at home. I remember about a year ago trying to get off them, & after about a week, I was driving & almost broke down emotionally. It occurred to me that a tramadol may help, so I took one & an hour later was fine. I am dealing with a lot of personal issues, a son facing years in jail, for instance. And....

" I remember the times when I wanted to cry and wondered why I couldn't." THAT IS ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't cry! Yesterday I almost backed into a customer in town, came home & put a cake in the oven & 1 1/2 later in my shop my husband yelled out to me, "Hey did you forget this cake in the oven?" That is when I ALMOST broke down, put my head on the counter & TRIED to cry, but couldn't!!!!!

I am afraid of losing my mind if I go cold turkey. I have a small sign shop, & if customers come, I may be in trouble. I say so many stupid things anymore. I want ME back!!!!! I have a small one room cabin in the mountains nearby. Maybe I could go on vacation & hide during the worst of it?

Ok, are you all saying if I go cold turkey, the worst lasts a week? Then what happens? Am I suddenly ok, or no? Please help me to decide how to do this, ok? Thank you so much.

You are all so kind. Hey, it reminds me of something. Years ago, I prayed the Lord would allow something bad to happen to me, because I could not stop partying-drinking, cocaine, acid, mushrooms, pot, everything I could get my hands on. Well, 2 weeks later I was in a DWI accident. I had to attend AA meetings. I found that the AA crowd included many snobby wealthy people, but the NA meetings (narcotics anonymous) had the most wonderful people ever! Thye were kind, loving, & truly cared about you. That was about 20 years ago & since then I came to the Lord, so I tried to avoid anything that would get me "high". So when I first took the tramadol, when I noticed the "warm-I-love-everybody" feeling I got fromt hem, I was a little leary. But I asked the doctors, nurses, & pharmacists, & they ALL said they were not addictive!

When I first started to take the tramadols, I was a talker! I mean, I'd just talk & talk, but then that ended. I don't feel like talking anymore, unless I have just taken an extra tramadol! My brain is fuzzy & foggy & blank. I try to read in the morning & have to read the same sentence 4 or 5 times sometimes.

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by Icandothis10, Nov 15, 2011
Bobbie - Honey, I'm only 37 and I do the stupidest stuff....I mean stupid....funny you talk about a cake....I forgot the apple pie in the oven!!!

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by jbr999, Nov 15, 2011
Hi all you Tram warriors,
I've been on T for about 4 years now, and have known I was addicted for about 3 of those year.
I found out how addicting this drug was after accidentally running out--you all know the WD
Symptoms. At first I didn't know what was happening b/c the Sx didn't till about 30 hrs after my last dose. I looked up tram w/d and found this forum. At that point I was pretty hopeless about ever getting off them. I read here that some were successful w/ tapering so I tried that. I got down to 1 pill/day for a few days. I had a week off work so I thought I would jump off from there and just stay home as if I had the flu. After6 days/nights of hell and practically no sleep, I had to go to work the next day so I ended up taking 2 trams that night. I slept and felt better but was back on the Trams!  I started Kidding myself that it couldn't be wd's 7 days out--that I just had bad neuropathy in my legs--that was my worst symptom--burning, restless legs. Then I was even more hopeless of ever getting off this med. This was about a year ago. The depression, the isolation, the lack of energy and the intermittent WDs were getting intolerable. It seems you can get WDs even from NOT escalating the dose as your tolerance increases. Anyway, I'm back here again & I'm going to try again to wean off this s**t. This time I'll take it real slow--and yes--my body can definitely notice dropping 0.5 tabs from 1 day to the next. Some drugs get you hooked by the "high" or good feelings you get when you take them--Tramadol gets you hooked primarily by the BAD feelings you get when you STOP taking it.  Without you people I would probably sink deeper into that thick,dark lonely tram fog and never escape--so thank you all for being here.
jbr999

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by Bobbie678, Nov 15, 2011
jbr999, do you get foggy from your tramadols? I am foggy. Real bad. Does anyone here feel foggy in the head? Anyone attention deficit? I found some articles online that said they are treating ADHD with Tramadols!

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by jbr999, Nov 15, 2011
Bobbie,

Here's an example of the Fog--I can go to a meeting and afterwards I can't remember hardly anything about it, like who said what, or even what was discussed. My wife, who often comes with me, remembers just about everything, and when she asks me what did so-and-so say, I can't remember. Of course I've been on the tram so long I don't remember what it was like before--maybe I was always that way LOL.

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by ullr, Nov 15, 2011
The last few days / weeks have gone better for me. I have a little more energy, and depression / life tierdness is weaker.

I am glad that I stopped taking Tramadol, I'm glad not to be dependent on pills.
But I have not come to where I can say: my life has been so much better without tramadol.

My life was better with tramadol.

I also believe that I was a better father and husband on tramadol. I had energy. Patience. Concentration.

The reason I started with painkillers 12 years ago is a broken elbow.
The first 5 years, I used codeine-based tablets. So amphetamine in a couple of years. The last 5 years there has been only tramadol. 1500-2000 mg daily. I used a tablet called tramagetic 300 OD.

http://tinyurl.com/bs85zqx

The idea is that one tablet will keep the whole day OD (one daily). I started the day with three or four of them. Sometimes I cut them down to small pieces to get a more instant effect. And taking one now and then throughout the day as I felt for ...

I had a tough time when I stopped. :P

As I have said earlier I used sleeping pills, codein and benzos to make through the ct weeks.
Lots of hot baths and energy drinks. Music and poetry books.
Care and household from my parents did help as well. I had to move out of my home. Away from kids and wife.
I stayed on the benzos and sleeping pills for some months after ct as well...
No I am on nothing!

Came home from the doctor right now. I've taken some new x-rays and MRI of the elbow, and the results are not good.
Discouraging.
All the cartilage of the elbow is worn away, and it looks like I need to get an artificial elbow. I am a little afraid to go ahead with major new operations. I have to admit. I think of pain problems after surgery

I hope I do not scare you, with my long recovery period. I have spent so much tramadol over such a long time, and I have a propensity for substance abuse...So I think most of you others will heal quicker!

Just needed towrite a little today..
I feel for the old frase: If I could do this – anyone can!


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by Sarabie, Nov 15, 2011
Ok guys I just found an old Tramadol content slip and will translate what it says about side effects and warnings.

There are different points, so I'll just take it from scratch.

DO NOT TAKE TRAMADOL IF
- you are allergic to any of the content in tramadol or other opiods
- you are diagnoced with epilepsi or other seizures
- you are being treated for depression

BE VERY CAREFULL WITH TRAMADOL IF
- you have suffered from head injuries
- are getting medication that effects your central nerve system, like sleeping meds, anti depressives etc.
- your kidneys doesn't function optimally
- your liver doesn't function optimally

LONG TIME USE OF TRAMADOL WILL CAUSE ADDICTION. MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY. PATIENTS WITH TENDENCIES TO ADDICTION MUSTN'T BE PRESCRIBED TRAMADOL.
ALWAYS TELL YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT OTHER MEDS YOU ARE TAKING WHILE DOING TRAMADOL.
- this also goes for vitamins, minerals etc.

DO NOT DRIVE WHILE DOING TRAMADOL

DO NOT OPERATE POWERTOOLS OR OTHER DANGEROUS MASCHINERY WHILE DOING TRAMADOL

SIDE EFFECTS:

VERY COMMON NON SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS:
- vomitting
- diahrrea
- dizzyness
- drowsiness
- headache

COMMON NON SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS:
- constipation
- hot flashes
- dry mouth
- problems peeing
- muscle spasms

NOT SO COMMON NON SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS
- heartbeating and high puls
- dizzyness and fainting
- nettle fever
- rashes

RARE SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS
- spasms
- shivering
- seizures
- anafylactick shock

VERY RARE SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS
- lack of oxygen to the heart
- chest pains
- breathing problems, lips turning blue
- spitting blood

NON SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS GENERAL
- feeling euphoric
- change in personality
- getting restless
- insomnia
- depression (calling that non serious???)
- problems making logic decisions (I call that pretty serious...)

And now to the best part...

WHEN YOU STOP TAKING TRAMADOL:
You won't get any symptoms when you stop tramadol in general. But occasionally and very rare, some patients will feel symptoms like anxietey, pain in the legs, insomnia, hot/cold flashes, diahrrea, and abdominal pains. Contact your doctor if you get any of these symptoms.

I wonder why I put them in my mouth to begin with...

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by loopey2u, Nov 15, 2011
I have the fog too.  Feels like you're senile, doesn't it?  hahaha  I read every night to get to sleep, and it's like I don't even comprehend what's on the pages even if I read it over and over again.  Even when I'm on the computer it's like I'm zoned out.  (insert Twilight Zone music here)

No sex drive either.  

No emotions either, it's like I'm numb.  

It's really no way to live.  It's not living at all, just existing.

OMG, they're treating ADD with this now?  I hope a bunch of poor kids aren't going to start taking it and then be stuck with w/d when they finally decide to not take it anymore..

Hey Legal, I wonder if you never had the branzaps is because you were on Elavil and Lexapro......Just a thought........
You know, that whole serotonin thing FOF was talking about?  Interesting.

Epidural shot tomorrow.  Hopefully it will work, the pain will be gone and then so will the Trams.  Please keep your fingers crossed.  Thanks!!

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by Icandothis10, Nov 15, 2011
Thank you FoF....and you're absolutely right.....I need to take my doses and get on with it

Now I realize that I have been dropping too fast and that I can't try to "trick" my body into thinking it's getting what it's used to.  Thank you so much.  I have had days where I've had slight W/D which I can deal with....a little bit of sweating and a few other discomforts but not the full blown w/d.  I don't know how people could deal with that.  I don't compare it to the flu at all.....to me, the flu is a cake walk compared to Tram w/d.  I can't believe how evil this stuff is.

Suzi - naahhhh, none of those are serious....I mean, taking years of someone's life isn't serious is it?  As long as it puts money in the pockets of those manufacturing and selling this crap....they have no problem with what it does to you.  I can't believe they actually use the words "non serious".....b@stards....



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by loopey2u, Nov 15, 2011
Congratulations TRAMSICK!  AWESOME!!!!!!!

Wow, Sarabie.  You're not in the States, right?  I read our little pamphlet that came with the Tram here and I don't remember it saying half of what it says on yours.  I do remember the "do not stop abruptly" and the "this medicine should not be prescribed to anybody with alcohol/drug dependence issues" and about seizure threshold warning and the SSRI' warning, but yours is far more informative.

" But occasionally and very rare, some patients will feel symptoms like anxietey, pain in the legs, insomnia, hot/cold flashes, diahrrea, and abdominal pains. Contact your doctor if you get any of these symptoms."

Really?  Occasionaly and very rarely?  That's why there are forums flooded with people like us,  right?  If that's true than I've got oceanfront property in Detroit that I'd like to sell you.....

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by Icandothis10, Nov 15, 2011
I know Loopey, it makes me sick too....

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by Sarabie, Nov 15, 2011
loopey - I actually sometimes listened to Pink Floyds Comfortably Numb and could relate to it. That's scary... No "real" feelings. Funny stuff was just "haha" not laughter. Love was "I DO love you, but please don't want anything from me" I had the sex drive, but couldn't really feel anything, so it really didn't matter. Again, I was perfectly happy, just sitting in my own little vacuum, not quite understanding why my whole world was falling apart.

Ican - there's even more side effects than what I posted. It's a LOOOOOONG list. In Denmark all side effects to all medicines must be reported to the health department, and the medical industri has to write everything in the pamhlet and it must be renewed every year. Not that it matters much though. I popped the poison anyways.

Tramsick - I'm SO glad. You have suffered a long time my friend. From now on it's bound to be better.

Love Susie

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by legaljunky, Nov 15, 2011
Yikes, Sarabie- We are such a mess in the US with our meds.  I will be passing this info on to my Dr.
I've been taking Zicam for my cold (and probably PAWS) and just didn't feel right as the cold got better- very swolen eyelids and ringing in my ears. I went to the net and found Zicam isn't the simple little homeopathic I thought it was.  So this is minor, and I will get back to dealng only with Tramadevil WD for the moment!

All of the recent posts have given me peace of mind about my poor memory.  I can't remember what I did yesterday, remember very little of the recent motor home trip we took that should have left some good and bad memories.  And all the interesting things we have done in the last 2 years.  Thank goodness my husband took pictures to remind me.  It is embarrassing when friends and family discuss things with me and I can't remember them.  I already had memory problems from Lyme but they are worse and I only hope they get better as there is less and less Tramadevil in my body.

All of this info today is so depressing and I want to say, our world has put us into this HELL but we can climb out. I want to take my anger and use it to fight my fight against Tramadevil.  And then today is a god day!  My energy is coming back, I'm drinking lots of water to get the Zicam out of me and I WILL BE OK!!!!!

We all have each other, thanks to Emily and we can get past this Hell-1 day at a time.  The days add up!

Tramsick- Congrats, you give me more hope!

loopey2-  Oceanfront in Detroit?  What are you on, Tramadol??!!!  

Strength and love to you all!

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by fightorfight, Nov 15, 2011
Evenin Beenherebefore,

Honestly man, I hadn't heard of that particular neruopeptide before,  my experimentation with supplements has never gotten above the NoXplode/CellMass/ECA stack level (which I think you'd be familiar with).   From my reading though it seems like its a pretty interesting substance,  effects on lots of sub-pathways in the adrenal system, along with hormone production.  The fact that it seems to antagonize some of the mu-opiod receptors would be good in regards to preventing tolerance--- I'm not sure if it would reverse things, however--- The closest approximation I would have to go by would be something like Nameda/Memantine which is an NMDA antagonist and effects glutamate receptor activity as well --- a characteristic which would be shared with DSIP (although further down systemically).    It should, then in theory, be able to prevent tolerance (or slow it), and provide some relief through WDs, in regards to RLS/Anxiety/Hypertension.  As far as its intended use, there are some studies that show it increased slow wave sleep activity--- but also some issues where paradoxically it'd do the opposite---- thats something, given how your mind and body would break it down-- that would be dose dependent.      

I can't give you a full run-down unfortunately, as I really am unsure of how you even dose the stuff--- There may be some more enterprising individuals on Mind and Muscle that may be singing its praises along with a noortropic like a raceatam.   If you've got it already, I certainly would check that forum out to see if anyone has had any luck with it.      NMDA antagonism seems to be a really big deal in regards to neuroprotection, as well as habituation. and dependence issues.  I know of quite a few persons who use Memantine to slow tolerance to stimulants--- so as to prevent their ADD meds from pooping out on them, and allowing them to stay on a low dose.

Hopefully in there you find something useful, but plainly speaking, I wouldn't feel comfortable saying that its going to be a magic bullet in any way shape or form--- especially because of the paradoxic dose dependent effect.   I'll kowtow to someone else on that other forum regarding its use.    If you do find out any more about it, or wind up having any subjective experience using it, let me know,  its interesting-  Thats for sure.

Be good to yourself man.   Take care all.  

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by fightorfight, Nov 16, 2011
Welp,  Day 20.

Tramsick-  I'm so so so so, so... so!  Happy that you're doing well.   Thats awesome, and really gives me something to smile about.    This drug effects us all in a different way, and the fact that you were still having such a problem so late in the game just didn't make sense--- It wasn't and isn't fair.    Time in should equal Time out, you know?   I guess thats exactly what it took...   :)   In any case, I'm really proud that you stuck with us all, and continued to be "you", even when it wasn't giving you the right response.    Keep doing well, keep exercising, just keep being awesome.    Hats off to you!

Days have been going by pretty easily on my end of things,  I'm actually tired enough right now that I don't really think I need to detail the past few days,  I've been getting better, and am acclimating myself to life again without that numb haze that Tramadol gives you.    Life is coming back to me in full force, and with that comes both the goods and the bads, for sure.    However, that post I made 6 days out, feels like an eternity ago-- and I know exactly what that means in terms of where I am in my own recovery.   I'm sure there will be up and down times further on down the line---- but there will be a point, probably soon, where those ups and downs aren't relegated by PAWS but rather, Life.     We'll see.  

Take care all, and hopefully I see you all in the morning, well rested, and ready to go.  
-FoF

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 16, 2011
ForF - I actually emailed the website to ask what kind of procedures should one use to "test" the peptides.  I have not heard anything, it says that all its products are not for human use to obviously avoid legal issues.  However, I am not going to add some water to it and inject it into my body, I am not that desperate.

The memory thing is horrible.  When you are on Tram you feel like you are focused and intelligent.  My GF always reminds me about how I forgot I told her this or I forgot she told me that.  I will get an email reply from someone and I forgot I even sent them an email in the first place.  I am used to just starting off my sentences by saying "I probably already told you this but..."

Question - I have quite a bit of clonidine (although from india), how can i use it during a taper?  Is it addictive as well?  I thought about ordering a blood pressure monitor, although i havent checked out the prices yet.

I hit the gym today at lunch again, it honestly made the rest of the day so much better.  I felt like I accomplished something and it was only 1pm.  I highly recommend using lunch hours as times to get exercise in, releasing stress, and getting a natural high, and just a shower to wake yourself up for the afternoon does wonders.

I am going to pack my gym bag now to go again tomorrow.  Its still hard to go, but its better than eating a monster lunch and then falling asleep in your chair all afternoon.



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by honorbounddane, Nov 16, 2011
hello everyone,
i think its day 54 for me, i cant remember. hahaha. everyone is so right on the memory loss thing, sometimes i cant even remember what i did earlier in the morning, as for longer memories, just cant seem to focus on them. it took awhile but i have finally gotten back to a normal sleeping pattern about 2 weeks ago with no sleep aids. all i can say is that i know it will take awhile for us to get back to normal, well us long time users, we have to remember that it took us a long time to get to our present state with the drug so its only natural for it to take a long time to get back to reality, thats why we took the drug, it was a quick fix, which is what our society wants, we have no patience, so now that we have all decided to get off this crud, we want the quick fix to get us thru it, and there really isnt one, except for substituting one drug for another, which doesnt help either, everyone needs to try and get thru the acute withdrawal period and then just focus on ourselves to get thru looooong road ahead. but with everyones support, we can do this. this is our AA or NA meetings, we all have lives and reasons for quitting and this is what we need. good luck to everyone, for those tapering, the longer you taper, the harder its gonna be mentally to quit, the physical will happen to us all, but we can get thru it. think about this, lets say you started tapering 3 months ago, well in those 3 months you couldve been 3 months clean, just something to think about. i know its hard, i was there, i was popping just as many as the next person for just as long, but i would so rather be saying where do i want to be in 6 months, 6 months clean or still tapering?. and i hope nobody bashes me for saying that. hahahaha its just an opinion, and opinions are like a$$holes, everyones got one. some just smell worse than others. hahahha
well, congratulations to everyone, no matter what your doing cause its harder to admit theres a problem than continue to hide it like nothings wrong, even though people think they are hiding it well, people can always tell, they may not know what it is, but they can tell there is a problem.

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by Bobbie678, Nov 16, 2011
So, how long will it take to get back to a normal person after stopping the tramadols? I average 1 a day, 2 a day on weekends while hiking, rarely 3. Been on them for about 4 years. If I go CT, how long for the worst to be over?

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by MrKenny, Nov 16, 2011
Great day everyone! Just checking in at day 90 post tram.
Tram Reminiscing:....I am a soft spoken person but When I was on tram, my wife kept telling me to turn down the volume of my voice, especially in public places.  Zoning out staring into space..........

Okay after 90 days i no longer have night sweats or even the occasional cramping. Physical effects seem to be gone; but it seems to have taken a mental and emotional toll.
(I taught and trained myself  over time to be a super positive happy joyful person, i am full of peace,  just by being thankful for everything every day, and accept everything as being perfect just they way it is. Not being offended and sidelining my petty ego.)
After 90 days; The tram aftermath has thrown a shadow over my emotions and I am having to retrain my thinking to the joyful peaceful person I really am.. .....I feel like I have been through a traumatic ordeal that I can't remember. Like a hangover of a forgotten nightmarish dream .
But I know, day by day, week by week all things are moving on to a much better place!
Love, Joy and Peace to all you Survivors......

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by Sarabie, Nov 16, 2011
Bobbie it's individual from person to person. I guess we can only tell you about our own experiences. I was on T for 5 years, the last year and probably more, the dose was up to 24 pills a day. The worst w/d's took about 48 hours for me. Then I had a week, where I couldn't really do anything but was ok. And about 4 weeks I was more or less back again. I'm 61 days now and I think I'm completely back. But I didn't suffer from any depression or anxiety as many of my fellow warriors do when going off the Tramadol. You simply just need to try and see yourself. It's no picnick but it will be better along the way.

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by ullr, Nov 16, 2011
Did you have brain zaps, Sarabie? If, for how long?
I think i had brain zaps for at least 10 weeks...

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 16, 2011
I'm new to this posting thing.  I was prescribed Tramadol about 3 1/2 years ago.  I had an epidural injection that went wrong and damaged my sciatic nerve.  Another doctor prescribed lyrica and tramadol for the nerve pain.

Now a few years later I want to stop my medications.  i stopped lyrica with no real problem.  I just kept weaning down.  But tram is much harder.  If I wean down to under 50mg I keep going through withdrawal.  Today is day 2 of no tram.  I'm having hot flashes, but I'm also going through menopause.  I'm having no energy, depression and anxiety.  I was taking about 37.5 mg a day to avoid these feelings.  

I've been thinking about suicide on and off for the past 3 1/2 years.  I think it's a mixture of the pain and how I got it (Doctor messing up).  I also think when the tram decreases in my system those thoughts get more persistant.  If given the choice I would chose not to wake up in the morning.  I used to just love my life, now I don't enjoy much of anything.

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by jbr999, Nov 16, 2011
Yoyoyo, I've had those feelings too. Depression has many
causes, and I think weaning off tram exacerbates it. You are
cutting down on an antidepressant (tram has AD properties).
For me, the lack of energy, feeling of uselessness, that the best
of life is now behind me--these are more frequent coming off
Trams. The only thing that gives me hope is the knowledge--
reinforced in these forums--that this will pass, albeit slowly, as I
get farther away from my last tram dose. I would quit CT if I
didn't have to work but there's no way I can go to work with no
sleep, and from my experience, you have to endure 7-10 days
of very little sleep. I'm down to 1 pill (50 mg) a day for 4 days now
and am having moderate WDs. The last time I tried this I quit at
this point but still couldn't sleep after 6 days and caved. This time
I'll go slower--staying on 1 pill a day Until my body gets used to
that, then down to 37.5 for a week, then 25 for a week. It shouldn't
be too hard to jump off from there. If I have to, I'll cut down to 12.5
for another week. I don't know why, buy it's easier to drop from 5 to
1 pill a day than it is to get off that one a day. Thanks everyone for
posting your experience, strength and hope, and especially Emily
for starting this journal.






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by Sarabie, Nov 16, 2011
ullr - I'm lucky. No brain zaps either. Some mood swings, but when I felt sad I listened to some sad songs to have something "real" to cry about. and you know how one song always leads to another, so I always ended up singing happy songs and this was only going on the first week. I haven't cried since :-)

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 16, 2011
I'm having some pain in my legs.  Not sure if it it withdrawal or just the sciatica pain.  No energy at all right now and no appetite.  I hope this passes as I will have to work this weekend.  

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 16, 2011
Thank you jbr999 for your feedback.  I read in a posting here that Prozac may help with the depression.  I have some that I haven't taken for a long time.  The last anti-depressant I took was Wellbutrin over a yer ago and that screwed up my bladder.  The Tram was taking the place of an anti-depressant.

I tried going down to 12.5 mg a day but couldn't hold it there.  I went up to about 37.5 mg for 2 weeks and quit.  If its too hard to work I may take 25mg.  But I still get some withdrawal at that dosage and I just want it over with.

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 16, 2011
Yoyo,

Tram withdrawal gave me crushing depression too, but it is slowly getting better.  For me, I had many of the usual symptoms (brain zaps, panic attacks, anxiety, thrashing in bed, terrible sleep, crying for no reason, depression, etc.).  All symptoms have disappeared, but the depression hangs on.

A large part of my depression is probably from my life situation, which the tramadol was masking.

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by fightorfight, Nov 16, 2011
Beenherebefore -  Clonidine's usefulness is really only for Acute WD, where you have blood pressure spikes and such.   It does help with the hot and cold flashes, as well as the sweats, and somewhat the RLS.    Its normally dosed .10 mg for agitation up to three times a day--- and normally stopped without a taper, once you're through the acute WDs.   I haven't heard of anyone becoming addicted to it, as you don't really get anything pleasurable out of it-- it just helps keep some symptoms of opiate wd at bay, and if you're lucky makes you tired enough to get some sleep.    

I'd think of it as an acamprosate analog for people going through alcohol WD---symptomatic relief, but no action on the dopergenic system.    Physical dependence would only form if you were taking it for a longer period of time than the normal 7-10 day window--- and dependence may be the wrong word for it, rather your body would have some hypertension issues if stopped abruptly from a month or so regiment.   I've heard of people taking it longer for help with sleep---and even in those cases, it was used more "as needed" rather than a solid 3x a day dose.  

My pDoc gave me a script for that dose whenever I asked him to help me get out of this mess 3 weeks ago,  along with Klonopin, Prozac, and for sleep Seroquel.    I actually never winded up taking it-- the latter medicines seemed to keep me relatively calm, and I threw in some Immodium for the first week due to GI problems.   Other people have had plenty of good things to say about it for the tough C/T days-- and aside from rare issues with hypertension, would be pretty safe.

Hope that helps-- and if you don't have a Benzo on top of things, I'd recommend it whenever you jump off.   Wouldn't use it throughout a slow taper, as it would just be too long a haul on it to not require that you also taper the clonidine when everything is said and done.  

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by legaljunky, Nov 16, 2011
I feel gloomy so I need to post. Today I'm having trouble talking and interacting with people and I don't want to be that way anymore. I still have a cold so that is part of the reason I'm down but I assume WD is still part of it, even after this length of time. Yea, I know I can't have things happen as fast as I want them to.

I welcome all the new people posting, you've come to the right place. We all have the same enemy, Tramadevil, but our experiences vary, so pick all our brains. Read the great old posts, they're an education in an area of expertise we never wanted before.

I have been on 20mg Lexapro, and 75mg Elavil for Lyme disease related depression and brain problems, and 2 mg Clonazepam for Lyme sleep problems for 10 years or more. (All closely monitored by my Lyme Dr.)  She added Tramadol about 2 1/2 years ago for arthritis.  When she took me off Tram last summer and put me on Voltaren I got SOOO sick I knew something was wrong. I went on the net and found Emily and all of you, my best buddies.  And I went back on Tram and with all the posts I had read here, and having felt so sick going cold turkey without even knowing it, I decided to go back on Tram and slowly taper.  I'm very lucky that my life at 67 allows for that.  It wasn't easy and sometimes it was excruciating but I knew I was gonna make it.  At the time I began my taper I was on 200mg a day.  And I know compared to most of you, I'm a lite weight.  Most of you had it much worse and have more to contend with than just the war against Tramadevil.  You have my greatest respect for staying with it and getting the job done.  And without you I would have had no road map, no direction home.  I love Bob Dylan.

I feel better now!  
Love and strength to all  of my favorite Tram warriors!

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by loopey2u, Nov 16, 2011
Glad you feel a little better now Legal.  Good post.   Keep posting if it helps.  ((hugs))

Here's another book from me again, but it feels so good to get here and get it off my chest.  Here goes.


YOYO, you probably read it already last time I came off this stuff I had only been on it 2 weeks and I had horrendous wd's at 4 pills a day.  At first I thought it was the flu till the "brain zaps" started.   Then I remembered Effexor and started researching and found this place...
I'm starting my Prozac tomorrow, and will update you on the brain zaps and other Effexor like w/d symptoms. I got em last time and am expecting to this time too.   Hopefully I won't, and if I don't maybe YOU will feel comfortable enough to try to C/T over the weekend and try the Prozac.  

Disclaimer. I am not a doctor and don't pretend to be one.  I don't know if  what I'm doing is risky or not, but IMO it can't be worse than staying on this crap.  Just another sucker trying to help another person who got sucked in...

JBR999, is there any way you can tell you doc?  Maybe you can get some Prozac or something else from him to help you.  

Had my epidural shot today and I really think I'm feeling some improvement already.  Can't wait till next week when the full effects kick in.  It's sore at the site of the injection but it's nothing to write home about.  My arm doesn't have shooting pains going down it anymore and for me that's a HUGE improvement.  I'm going to just take tylenol with it unless it becomes unbearable.  

When I read more and more people coming off just 1 pill are almost the same as 5, I say screw it.  The past 3 weeks I've been having migraines (I think, the headaches are pretty intense and I either vomit or get nausea and feel like vomiting), and they are coming closer and closer together and I wonder if it's the Tramadol.  I spoke to my GP, and you know what he told me? "Go back on the Prozac, that's what I'd reccomend for migraine treatment."  

I can't get away from the Prozac now, can I?  lol    I can't handle these headaches anymore, the trams gotta go and I gotta find something else for pain..

FOF, I WISH I could get clondine.  My sister has a BP cuff and I am going to get that tomorrow and monitor myself.  I tend to run high BP wise anyway, and if it goes real high I'll either go to urgent care or call my doc and request to be seen immediately.    

Check this out.  After my shot today I asked my PM/Orthopedic doctor how to taper.  Wanna know what he said?  Take 3 today, 2 tomorrow and then 1 and be done!!!  HAHAHAHA!! I almost laughed in his face but that wouldn't be polite.  He's an EXCELLENT doctor, I'd recommend him to my Mother but for him to be in pain management and not know this stuff is SCARY.  

For those of you worried about blood pressure spikes while w/d, maybe Coricidin HBP cold and flu would help with the flu like symptoms?  It's made especially for people with high blood pressure and that's all I take when I have a cold/flu.

I've got my arsenal of Immodium AD and Prozac, Coricidin HBP cold and flu, a multi-vitamin, going to eat super healthy and incorporate as many serotonin promoting foods that I can afford, hydrating the heck out of myself and keeping busy as much as possible.  I have no qualms calling on my higher power 24/7 if I need to, and will be repeating "this is only temporary, it's not life threatening, and this too shall pass" when I need to.  It's an old panic attack trick, and lots of times it works.

If I have the strength to exercise I am also going to try to walk.  Hey, even a block is better than nothing.  
Go here for a list of foods that promote serotonin.  http://www.livestrong.com/article/352682-foods-that-promote-serotonin/

I think I'm already starting W/D's by going from 4-2 so fast, and I'd like to be "good to go" (or as much as is humanly possible) by Thanksgiving next Thursday.  Just feel "run down" today.  Could be from the anesthesia but I doubt it.

Sent the kids up to Walgreens for the Immodium.  They had to ask the pharmacist what to buy and man were they ticked when they found out what it was...hahaha   Note to others, NEVER send teenagers to the store for diarrhea medicine, they get very embarrassed.  :)

Now I'm pissed, and gonna get off this crap.  

Jumping off!  See ya on the other side!
(Or maybe I'll see ya when the W/D's get bad.)  We shall see....hahahaa (too bad this is not freaking funny)

Thanks for letting me vent here. Sorry my posts are so long, but it just feels good to get it "out there" and get it out of my head if you know what I mean, and I think you all do.

Loop

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by Sarabie, Nov 16, 2011
Yeeeeah just got prove that my brain works again. Was finally able to solve Rubiks Cube again. I used to solve it within 2,5 minutes but the past year I haven't been able to solve it. I simply forgot how. Tried several times but halfway through my brain turned off. But I just solved it three times in a row with no problems. So happy :-D I'm getting my life back :-D

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by loopey2u, Nov 16, 2011
Yesssssssssssssssssssss.  That's great Sara.  I wonder what else you can do now.  Won't it be fun to see??

Is your concentration back?  

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by fightorfight, Nov 16, 2011
Loop-   Hey best of luck with everything, seriously.    I'm on Prozac and started it right as I went C/T this time around--- and I have to say I've been pleasantly surprised.   Hasn't done a whole lot for anhedonia, but again I'm still pretty early in the cycle of depression post Tram--- but it has done a number on my anxiety.   I haven't had to bring two shirts to work or anything like that if you catch my drift.    Hopefully it helps you too.    And, yeah I wouldn't be shy about asking for a small panic med like a Ativan or whatever---- BP meds have advanced beyond Clonidine in their practice.   Most docs give out Clonidine because they know it helps with WDs.   By any means possible short of another Tram, is how I see it :).

Take care, and post your heart out.   It really does help.

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by loopey2u, Nov 17, 2011
All that and I chickened out.  :(    

Thanks FOF, I do have plenty of Xanax on hand for when the time comes.  
  
Hmmmmm, my taking from this article suggests that after the administration of Xanax BP went down and adrenaline levels in the blood went down as well?  You're smart FOF, decipher it for me....lol  

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9700978?dopt=Abstract

Woke up, got out of my wake up daze and sure enough I felt really "off".  Wasn't looking for it, but my body let me know.  It had been almost exactly 20 hours since the last dose.  Mild brain zaps and just icky feeling so I took my usual 2 pills. It's been 50 minutes since and you know the drill, brain zaps and tiredness are gone. I only took 2 yesterday, and that's all I'm taking today.

Maybe I'll start the prozac tonight after the kids get home from school and see what I feel like tomorrow morning.  If one were to have a seizure or serotonin syndrome that would show up fairly soon after taking the dose, wouldn't it?  I just don't want to be alone in case something happens.
  
Nice surprise this morning though, NO PAIN!!!!!!!  Not even at the injection site.  Yessssssssssssssss, I do believe that the shot worked.  



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by Sarabie, Nov 17, 2011
Loopey thx :-D I Think my concentration is back. But I't has never been good actually. But enough to get a Masters degree so I guess I can settle :-)

I remember last time I tried the rubiks cube. My head just went blank. It was like if someone gave me a book in Chinese and asked me to translate it. So I was kind of nervous when I tried it out yesterday. Feels good with a little proof of progress :-D

Love Susie



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by lak, Nov 17, 2011
Hi everyone, I have been prescribed Tramadol to replace Darvocet I was taking for arthritis pain, back pain etc.  I don't take unless I really need it but I have not noticed any effects like you are all expressing.  It just handles the pain does not make me feel like I am on anything.  
I have so many problems though cardiomyopathy, depression, arthritis, fibromyalgia "brought on my removable of tumor in arm that a nerve had to be cut", IBS now food allergies to cinnamon and tomatoes..... I just keep trying to find why I have terrible cramping to the almost passing out and then bowel movement.  No one can help me.... its really weird but its not IBS..... next exploratory surgery for restriction of intestines having had a hysterectomy at early age 42 now 53.
Any comments or advice would be helpful.

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by Sarabie, Nov 17, 2011
Hi lak and welcome

My X boyfriend also sufferes from fibromyalgia and he too had those terrible stomach aches. He then stopped eating meat and the cramps stopped entirely. We later found out that meat, cheese, bread, rice, beans and pasta is like poison to people with fibromylagia, because it consists mainly of acid and having fibromylgia you need to eat base foods. Potatoes and all veggies and fruits. All painkillers also consist of acid so he couldn't take any. Everytime he tried, the stomach ache was back and he came to that solution that the fibromyalgia was to prefere compared to the stomach cramps. He hasn't had any meat since and when he went to the hospital for at check up last year, they could conclude that the fibromyalgia was almost gone. So my advice to you is to search the net for other stories like this and try not having any acid foods for awhile to see if it helps you.

PS he still have the fibromyalgia, but it's only "visible" when it's cold outside and since he stopped eating meat, he managed to get back to work and now he's working 37 hours a week - teaching 4-5th grade and only 3 years ago he was up for early retirement because of the fibro.

Love Susie

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 17, 2011
I'm on day 3 of no tramadol.  Things are going better than expected.  I'm not so depressed and actually had some good feelings today.  I 'm nauseus and have not much of an appetite.  

I am feeling more aches and pains today.  I worked out  tiny bit yesterday and messed up my rotator cuff a little ( I had a repetitive motion injury last year).  But I know it will get better.

The best thing that happened is the suicidal thoughts seem to be dimishing.  I think they might have been linked to the Tram.  Anyone else have that experience?

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by loopey2u, Nov 17, 2011
That's awesome Yoyo.  It's wonderful you're doing better than you thought you would and are not having a horrible time with it.  Did you start the Prozac back up?  

I didn't have suicidal thoughts after I went off the first time but I did fall into a dark, dark hole of depression a few days after I quit.  No clue how long it would have lasted because my doc. put me back on Trams., but there are people on here who have it for quite a while after quitting.

Keep up the good work.  You're doing GREAT.



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by Gizmok, Nov 17, 2011
Hi everyone, I have not been on here in a while, many dr appt's and lots going on in my life. Thankfully the depression is getting much better. The doctor uped my dose of prozac by 10mg to 20mg a day and it really seems to help. I have also not been on here because I am slightly ashamed, after many appt's and for the last 8 months since I detoxed off all my opiates, we have tried everything for the pain. Well, it was getting so bad I could not think of anything else. I mean it was so painful I just wanted to bang my head against the wall. And you know after detoxing off of opiates I was damned if I was going to go back on them. So I had one final appt that my mother made me go to and the doctor and my mother and I discussed all options for pain control until I have surgery, the Vicodin they gave me did nothing for the pain. So after many tears and lots of talking the doctor put me on 10mg oxycodone three times a day. He says it is very short term and they will wean me off after surgery. I just feel like such a failure because I can't deal with this pain on my own. You guys on here are sooooo strong, to get of the tramdevil and not take anything else for your pain. You are all huge inspirations for me. Legaljunky and icandothis, I love you ladies your so strong and ank you for being there for me. I promise I will be back more often. <3 peace, love and recovery to all

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 17, 2011
Loopey,

I haven't started the Prozac backup.  I also have some Cymbalta samples, but i'm nervous about that med.  I tried it once and started getting muscle twitches.   i also heard that it is hard to get off of.

I got suicidal feelings on Tram i think because i kept going up and down on my dosage  and it wasn't constant in my system.  I hope I can keep off of it when my back acts up.  I feel very blessed that my pain has gone down.  I'm just taking Tumeric, 5-HTP and a little bit of a product called EndPain (Boswellia, salacin).  Also I got B12 and L-Tyrosine for energy.

Thanks everyone for their support.  I'm starting to get excited about feeling OK about life again.

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by fightorfight, Nov 18, 2011
Heyyooo,

Yoyo- I'd recommend the Prozac over the Cymbalta.   I was on Cymbalta during my first, brutal, WD.  While I think it helped me at a lower dose-- my GP (at the time) was Bananas for it.   I'd come in after probably experiencing some Post Tram Depression, and he'd jack that dose right up.    I was at 90mgs for some time, and coming off that was its own little slice of Hell.   Now I know it helps people, particularly for Fibro-esque issues-- but definitely a tough one to go off.    Honestly though, if you haven't had much luck with Vitamin P, maybe it'll help you better than it did me.    Everybody is different.  

Loop- Anything that hits the GABA receptors like Xanax or other Benzo substrates will result in lowering BP and adrenal action-- its physiological in some ways, reduces the heart rate and some other "chill" feelings, reduces flop sweat, etc.   They are great meds for immediate relief of anxiety attacks, and acute WDs.    Far as serotonin syndrome, that really is exaggerated,  by coming off Tram, you're effectively limiting the amount of serotonin in your system--- Reuptake inhibition doesn't happen magically overnight either--- Prozac has a 2-4 week ramp up anyhow.   So starting it while you're coming off wont hurt you--- may even help.

Its day, 20 something, I think.   Not entirely sure, actually,  works had me going back and forth for the past couple days which I should be thankful for-- staying busy works for me at present.    Hope everyone is doing well.   Keep up the good work :)



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by loopey2u, Nov 18, 2011
Gizmok, don't be ashamed.  At all.  If you need pain relief and that's what works, then so be it.  YOU are strong too.  Not wanting to go back on the opiates is being strong.  Please don't beat yourself up about it, the pain is out of your control.

I can understand not wanting to go on it though.  Hang in there, your doc is on board with you and he knows your situation.  That's big.  

Thanks FOF.  I remember you saying that the Serotonin Syndrome is highly exaggerated, that it is really rare.  Not really worried about that too much, I just freak out.  It's what I do, and that's why I need the xanax sometimes.  ;)  

I found a psychiatrist that's right down the road, and am going to try to get an appt. sooner than the Dec. 5th one with my old doc.  They open at 9 today, so I'm going to call right at 9 and hopefully be seen soon before the tram runs out.    I am thinking he's going to have me wean very, very slowly and start the prozac now to let it build up in my system because of the depression coming off last time but we will see.   At least I'll have somebody out there aware what's going on.  

I just want this over, but it looks like there's no easy way out.  Damn I hate this medicine.

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 18, 2011
When I made a big decision to change jobs and move overseas (I was tram induced) I was hit hard with depression.  When I first got there I was staying in a nice hotel for 30 days.  I remember I had off the first two days and all I did was lay in bed.  I was only taking kratom at the time I think.  I would say I was suicidal, the thought definitely crossed my mind many times.  Tram WDs will give you the worst depression you ever felt in your life.  So if you are using it to mask depression from some type of issue, when you go CT you are going to feel worthless.  That is my biggest fear and why I have chosen to try tapering.  

I quit CT before, and the key to staying off is keeping yourself busy.  I work 6 days a week now, and today is my off day.  I almost would rather be at work because all I want to do is take the pills.  There isnt much to do in the middle of a war zone.  The workouts this week did wonders on my mood though, I think exercise is critical in the recovery process.

I actually was sociable last night and played poker with some of the guys.  I sucked because my memory/thinking was slow and difficult.  But I did make it out of my room.  

Do any of you get really impatient and easily irritated when on tram?  I know it gives you that "happy" feeling, but it can make me a complete ahole too.

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by Sarabie, Nov 18, 2011
Gizmo - seriously, don't be ashamed. There's a reason you got tramadol in the first place, and since that reason hasn't disappeared, you still need pain meds. Even though Oxy is considered a stronger opiate than Tramadol, it's (from what I've heard) a whole lot easier to come off. I think it was a very wise decision you all came up with. Especially that your doctor will help you get off them again. That's a real doctor :-D If I ever need pain meds again I'll definately take them. As long as it isn't tramadol. When I got on them, my doctor knew I would become addicted and she told me. We talked about it and she said that sometimes it's just necessary. Also it's for a short period of time you need them, so don't worry. Just enjoy that you aren't in any pain !!

yoyoyo - it says on the Danish info pamphlet that suicidal thoughts is a side effect from Trams. A very rare side effect, but yet known enough to be on the pamphlet. And nice job !!!!!!

Beenherebefore - oh yes... !!! I could get SO irritated and impatient. It didn't happen a lot, but when it did, I really couldn't get out of it again, even though I knew it was me who were the ahole.



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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 18, 2011
Sarabie - I remember standing in the grocery line being so annoyed that this lady was writing a check.  I am normally super laid back, that stuff just makes me a completely different person.

Does anyone go to NA meetings?  When I come back to the US I thought about joining them.  Just curious as to how much they help.  I know just talking about it helps tremendously.  I have known about this website for awhile, but never this group.  Since finding the group this week it motivated me to start the taper, get in the gym, and start taking this seriously however try not to put too much pressure on myself.  

Does anyone take Trazadone for sleep?  I used to and it gave me a stuffed up nose and it gave me the munchies to the point were I can snack until I literally felt sick.  But it really didnt knock me out or anything.  I have a prescription so I have 100s of them, I wish I knew something else to take with it to counter the bad side effects.

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 18, 2011
"Tram WDs will give you the worst depression you ever felt in your life.  So if you are using it to mask depression from some type of issue, when you go CT you are going to feel worthless."

I agree completely.  For me, on tram, I felt invincible.  After a harsh taper, it took a month or two to go from feeling like a mouse to feeling fairly normal again.

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by loopey2u, Nov 18, 2011
I got in touch with a psychiatrist.  I can't wait until the 5th to see my regular one, and I run out of meds on Monday.  I dunno what happened, I was all geared up for going off the other day but I just don't think I'm mentally strong enough.  That black hole of depression is the worst part, and being non functional for the holidays is just not an option.

I gave the receptionist a rundown of the problem, and she rang the phone in the doctors office.  Luckily she picked up  and we talked for a minute.  I explained about the experience with Effexor and how I'm having a similar one with the Tramadol and she understood.  THANK GOD.  She gave me her phone number and told me to leave her a detailed voicemail on how I want to handle this, and she's going to call me back when she has a minute in between patients.  She can'e see me today but she said she'd help.  I am so relieved.  

Maybe I'm a wimp, but I don't want to do this alone.  

I called in to my ortho for a refill on the Tramadol just in case the shrink doesn't call me back.  If he doesn't refill and f I have to order off of the internet I will.  I just have a feeling I waited too long and I'm going to start w/d anyways..  Anybody have experience ordering this stuff and how long it takes to get to your house??

Trying not to get anxious and panicky but it's too late.  I know what's coming if I run out and it scares the **** out of me.



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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 18, 2011
Day 5 for me.  

BeenHereBefore - Have you tried meletonin for a sleep aid?  Its pretty mild, but it may help.  I had an EX boyfriend that went to NA.  It was before I had any experience with this Tram stuff.  He got a lot out of it.

I woke up this morning feeling good except for a screwed up shoulder.  I compulsively knit my way into a rotator cuff injury last year.  It is pretty humorous and slightly sad.  i was taking the Tram and knitting calmed me down.  I did it all the time until I hurt and then did it some more.

The sciatica the Tram was prescribed for has actually gotten better since I've stopped taking it.  I do have some discomfort but instead of popping a pill I just notice it and it kind of goes into the background right now.  

I'm still feeling nauseus but no big depression yet.  When does that usually hit?

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 18, 2011
Its day 4 not day 5 for me.

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by TRAMMAN999, Nov 18, 2011
Hi Yoyoyoyo78

Don't know if you are in the US or UK ?
But     ...........    https://www.keysecure.com/rxeurope.com/tramadolwithoutprescription.htm

I have used them 2 0r 3 times. Excellent speed.  In UK, Guaranteed next day delivery.

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by MrKenny, Nov 18, 2011
A lot of smart people posting here so I have a question:
I have a pinched nerve in my neck, the pain causes the muscles to tighten and thus pinch the nerve even tighter. It is a feedback cycle of pain I have been living with this for 3 years. (thus the Tramadol) So far have had spinal injections and physical therapy with poor results.
I still have pain and have given up on expensive medical treatments; I just need some more space between the narrowed disc.
Any creative ideas?


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by TRAMMAN999, Nov 18, 2011
Sorry that should be   Hi   "loopyey2u"
Apologies    Yoyoyoyo78,

Get minimum quantity and      "carry on your tapering"   !!!!!! Hope I see a posting that your tapering is working and that you are getting there.

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by loopey2u, Nov 18, 2011
Mr. Kenny, I have no suggestions for you but that's my problem too.  I just had a cervical injection on Wednesday, had no pain for 2 days and now it's back again.   Not as bad as it was, but it's back.  I went to PT this morning and it feels worse.  I too am ready to chuck the medical treatments and somehow just learn to live with it.  I really can't afford any more medical bills.

BeenHere, I know people that go to N/A meetings and they feel they help.  Just being around people in a similar predicament (like this forum) is comforting, and the tips and personal support help too. Check it out, you might like it!
Some people say they have to shop around for meetings too, if you don't like one try another.  

Thanks Tramman.  It sickens me to even think of ordering this poison online, and man is it expensive but I'll do what I have to do till the 5th of December.

Yoyo, OUCH on the shoulder. It really ***** to not be able to do what you want and like to do.  Glad you got it under control.

If I missed anybody I'm sorry, you know, "the fog"..hahahahahha

Have a great day everybody.  

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 18, 2011
Mr Kenney and Loopey2u

Some people have tried an inversion table to get more space between the discs.  I bought one, but haven't used it much as my problem wasn't really caused by compression.

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by tramsick, Nov 18, 2011
FOF, everyone, thanks for your kind comments.  Truth is, I'm finally better off tram.  Went to my first psych appt. yesterday and have been given a very small dosage of Lexapro to take with the Klonopin.  Then the plan is to wean me off Klons. in the future. Have to be honest, and if possible would really appreciate your opinion FOF, I'm terrified of SSRI's.  Haven't had good luck with them in the past, which I TRIED to explain to the psychologist,  but he assured me the low dosage should have little impact on any negative side affects (starting me on 2.5 mg for a week, then 5mgs. Oh, and can you really have NO alcohol on these things.  I enjoy an occasional glass of wine (no more than 2/wk).  The Prozac sure has seemed to work for you FOF and I'm really beyond happy for you.  No one should have to suffer like all of us have getting of tram.

I think I'm just plain tired.  I want to be back to my old self sooner than later.  I don't want to waste time waiting for a SSRI to kick in.  It's been a friggin long road, but I've come this far, right?  To all of you that are suffering, keep fighting, you will feel better.  I know it's hard to stay positive through these horrible withdrawals, but take care of yourselves.  Put yourself first as much as you can.  It will pass, I'm beginning to be proof of that.

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by loopey2u, Nov 18, 2011
Got my refill from the ortho.  What a relief.  Now even if the shrink doesn't call me back I'll be good till the other appt. on Dec. 5th.

You know, when I first found this forum I was chuckling to myself reading about people chasing the Fed Ex man down the street, but now I can understand why they did it.  Heck, if I would have had to order online I would have been chasing him down the street too if I missed him at the door.  

I hear you and can totally relate tramsick, I don't want to wait for the Prozac to kick in either.  Actually it's not even not "wanting" to wait for it to kick in, it's "needing" for it to be active before I attempt weaning.  Just out of curiosity, what did your doc say about all of this?  I Sure hope the Lexapro works for you, I really do.  

Keep taking care of yourself and stick with it.  You're doing great.  :)  

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by legaljunky, Nov 18, 2011
I'm feeling happier and after a few days of little sleep I got a full night sleep last night.  I think I just passed the 60 day PAWS with a cold on top of it and life is good again!  I'll be off the forum for a few days, I'm out of town visiting my grand children.  Pure fun!

Strength and love to my fellow Tram fighters!

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by tramsick, Nov 18, 2011
Hi Loop.  My doc is very afraid I will become addicted to Klonopin.  That is why he wants me on the Lexapro, to take care of the panic attacks I had with tram withdrawal.I've been managing them with the Klons and feeling back to normal. I actually went into his office offering the option of weaning off the benzos without the use of an SSRI. I'm hoping the panic attacks have passed and would like to try to see if I'm correct. Tram is so similar to an antidepressant in so many ways and look where that got me.  I feel like I'm on a roller coaster ride and I'm never getting off.  No one can make me take the Lexapro. Read a review just now and it was from a former Lexapro user that reported the exact withdrawal symptoms we have all had coming off tram.  I haven't started.  Don't know what to do.  I know it works for a lot of people, just scared and scarred by tram, you know. Hope u get better every day.  Keep fighting!

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by loopey2u, Nov 18, 2011
My sister also had w/d's from Lexapro but she said they were very mild.  She just felt dizzy and off balance for a few days.  No brain shocks/sweating/nausea/etc.  I know everybody is different though, and what one might feel another might not.  

It's weird how different people feel different things, must be our body chemistry.

I have had excellent luck with Prozac.  It's got a long half life and if I miss a dose (or 5) I don't even notice the difference.  Missing doses tends to happen when I'm feeling good (not depressed) but I can honestly say I don't notice that I haven't taken it.  Been on and off of it for 20 years with no side effects except for a little tiredness when I first start it up, but that goes away in a week or 2.

Best of luck to you too tram.  Hang in there.  Happy days will be here again soon.


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by rj0923, Nov 18, 2011
Hey warriors i need your help
Hi I am now at 175 mgs of tramadol a day now, 1 1/2 in the am 1 in the afternoon and pm. I posted back in october for a while when I first started the taper when I was at 300mg 2 pills 3x a day. A month before that I was at 450mg which I took 3 pills 3x a day like clock work for 7 years. Here's the problem the withdrawls have been rough but bearable, I feel like now I am just prolonging the agony and if maybe i should take the plunge and just go CT. Will the withdrawls be more horrific if I do this. Here is what is not going away and I feel like I am stuck at 175mgs depression, can't concentrate (feels like I have alzheimer's) at all, to cleaning the house to making a simple decision, very emotional and RLS at night with brain zaps.  I know good distractions and exercise help, but here is my situation. I am unemployed and it's very isolated where I live and really lonely. It's just me and my hubby and he works pretty long hours and there is a foot of snow outside (we live in the mountains). To bad I didn't do this during the summer I could be outside being active and not housbound. I want off this stuff so bad, but don't want to put myself through absolute hell if I don't have to. Many of you have been though a taper or a CT and any great advise would help so much for me to make a final decision. Do I take the plunge now or do i need to taper a little more?

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by fightorfight, Nov 19, 2011
Hey Tram(No Longer)sick,

Lexapro huh?  Goddamn, these damn drug companies.    Have you ever been on Celexa?  Its the exact same ****--- Add another carboxyl group, and we can keep the patent until March 2012.   I can't stand when drug companies evergreen medicine that has been around (and in a generic form) for years.   Sorry for my soapbox moment there but Lexapro is a junk med-- Celexa is cheaper, generic, and has the same side effect profile.   I've been on it myself, along with all the other SSRIs, and really had no luck with them.   Prozac is the first to even give me a "hint" of it working, and even then-- like Loop said, the half-life on it makes going on and off a relative breeze.   I don't know if I plan to stay on it long-term, and I'm happy for what its done for me as of now.  That could change, for sure.  

Some Psychs are like that--- I'd even be so brash as to say that I could give you the playbook by which your next few appointments would go.   Benzo only approach isn't really tolerated because of the dependence and (in some cases) liability issues.   Big time Benzo WDs can kill you, just like Alcohol.    So I understand the want to bring you off one, even if its Klonopin, which out of most of them, is probably the easiest to taper.   In any case---- If you don't want an SSRI, you need to make it known to this Psych--- Because he or she is going to keep throwing them at you until you get into SNRI territory, or heaven forbid atypical antipsychotics like Abilify and Zyprexa (which are exorbitantly expensive, and really don't do anything aside from making you gain weight and sleep a lot)

So heres my idea.  Just like you.   Don't take it.   Next appointment, should you have a 2 week follow-up-- say that you'd much rather just get some guidance as to how to taper the Klonopin, and go from there.   Explain your past history with SSRIs.   You are the person who has to make the final call on this--- but I'd be exactly where you are now if I were in a similar circumstance.   In fact, I was for a long time, bouncing between all sorts of meds, both before and post T-day.    Sometimes you just have to have faith in yourself--- I think you do, now that you're seeing some light at the end of this tunnel.  

Keep up the good work, keep exercising, get your personal antidepressant back and rolling like it had been for years before.  

  

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by Sarabie, Nov 19, 2011
Rj - i think it's hard to give advice on this. I went CT but it was very spontanious. Been on tram for five years, dose up to 24 pills a day and one day I just had enough. I suddenly realized what I was doing and I decided to quit right away and the decision made me happier than I had been for years. So I tapered from 24 to 0 in five days. It was hell but I was and still am so happy with what I was doing so no depression at all. Which has made it fairly easy for me compared to, I guess, everyone else in here. But if you are slightly depressed now, I think it would be worse with CT. Also because you are isolated in the mountains. Well I don't know.... I would try the CT if I were you. But probably because I love to see results of my work right away.

Best of luck no matter what you decide !!!!

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 19, 2011
I have taken Lexapro on and off for about 6 years.  I used to take 10mgs a day, now I take 20mgs.  However, I am careful not to take it as much with the high intake of tram, I dont want to induce a seizure.  However, before Tram, Lexapro didnt make me happy, it just kinda numbs you a bit.  I have a tendency to stress out and make situations worse than what they really are, Lexapro did help with that.  I also never really had bed withdrawals, I went to work and everything.  I would consider a common cold worse than Lexapro WDs.

And for benzos, well I used to take 50mg a night to sleep for 6 months straight.  I quit CT just because I came back from overseas and threw them away.  I was naive to WDs at that time.  It took a week for the WDs to kick in but then BAM, I couldnt fall asleep for the life of me.  I was anxious, but I wasnt depressed, it probably helped that I just got home from a long time in Iraq.  But I had a hard time sleeping for 3 weeks, it takes a long time to get off that.  Thats why I was prescribed Trazadone, which all it does is give me a stuffy nose.  My body is just very tolerant to medication.  I can take an ambien and stay up all night. I think I have just killed all the receptors in my brain from the amounts of chemicals I have put in my body over the years.  If I take NyQuil to sleep, I take a min of 3 pills, usually 4.  I can take 40mg of adderall and take a nap.  Its nothing to be proud off, if I got hurt tight now stronger pain meds wouldnt even work.

I hope they eventually, once I taper off, my Tram a Schedule 5 Narcotic so it isnt so easy to get.  Its always gong to be hard to know you can place an order and have it shipped that day.  Since I am overseas, I usually try to buy from any website I can because it takes awhile to get here.  So I have resorted to the flaky sites from Inda, the pills show up in all different shapes and colors.  I was banned from one US site because my IP address showed I was overseas.  Since so many of those websites are the same, I had a hard time finding ones that would ship to me.  I have a US address that forwards the mail to me.  I pay an extra $30 every time it forwards the mail.  So much money wasted on this crap.  Thats why I hope it becomes illegal.  I imagine it will within the next two years, way too many people abusing it.

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by loopey2u, Nov 19, 2011
Wow, beenthere.  I'm sorry it takes so much stuff for you to go to sleep/kill pain  That's got to be incredibly frustrating.  .  

Do you think a long period of abstinence would "reset" your brain and thus lower your tolerance, or doesn't it work like that?

This drug definitely needs to be reviewed again, that's for sure.    

Sarabie, you made it through with no brain zaps or depression right?  If this is too personal don't answer, but do you have an underlying depression issue?  It seems like most of us who are having the hardest times are those who have been under psychiatric care before and/or have been on psych. meds.  

I wish this thread had a poll option, so we could poll everybody and just see if there is a correlation between the two.  

Not that any doctor would take it seriously, because to them we're either just neurotic/over anxious patients/hypochondriacs and morons, but just for my own use.  



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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 19, 2011
The last time I went CT I think it was more anxiety than depression.  The depression was there, esp when I couldnt sleep and had to work (at a brand new job).  However, I think most people that abuse this stuff have depression, that is one of the main reasons you take drugs.  You want to escape your boring or unhappy life.

Most of the people that get hooked on Tram got legit prescriptions, however I highly doubt those same people can say that they had no idea it could be addicting.  Anything that alters your mood to that level is a sure sign that it is probably not wise to keep taking this regularly.

Now for people with chronic pain, im not sure there is a good solution.  I mean, I know exercise, yoga, acupuncture, and healthy diets will do wonders on your body.  However, most people wont try all those methods to avoid pain.  My dad has had 5-7 back surgeries, along with my grandfather.  I remember my dad telling me he was trying to wean off his pain pills at one time following a surgery.  Not sure if he ever abused them, but he was on oxycotin.  However, he never just tried to stretch more.  Genetically I have the same back problems, however when I started doing yoga I was amazed at how well it really worked.  I have never tried acupuncture but have heard really good things.  

I am really surprised kratom has not been used at all for chronic pain.  It IS addicting, but not like other narcotics.  It doesnt mess with your mind like tram does, however you do have WDs from it.  However, I dont think its possible to even OD on it, you might get a bad headache or maybe get sick.  This is not a disclaimer to go get it, just somewhat surprised I havent heard more about it in the medical community.  

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by Sarabie, Nov 19, 2011
Loopey

I made it through without any depression or brain zaps. I have always been very happy and according to the doctor I produce loads of serotonin. When the love of my life dumped me (my own fault - tramadol related) I was extremely sad for a couple of days, but then I decided to quit the trams and that made me happy again. I know that depression can strike and hit everyone, but apparently I'm not in the danger zone. But also - I don't have anything to be depressed for. I'm actually doing quite well. I made myself a fresh start. My family and friends are as loving as always. I'm starting a small diner and I'm off the tram :-D

I actually read an article from BBC yesterday, claiming that Denmark is the happiest nation. I guess it could be true, as we don't have to worry about healthinsurance, education etc, as it's all free of charge. I copy pasted the list, so you can see it. Doesn't mean that people don't get depressed here though.

HOW THE NATIONS RANKED ON HAPPINESS
1st - Denmark
2nd - Switzerland
3rd - Austria
4th - Iceland
5th - The Bahamas
23rd - USA
41st - UK
90th - Japan
178th - Burundi

I'm sure glad I'm not from Burundi...

Love Susie

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by Icandothis10, Nov 19, 2011
I know that when I took Tram randomly throughout the day, I'd have a nice "lifted" mood and then within 30 min, I'd be irritable and pi$$ed off.  I also got very hot when I took a lot of these.  I NEVER wear shorts unless I'm on the beach.  I started wearing shorts and tanks because this stuff made me so damn sweaty.  I heard that was my mind and body beginning to think about having a seizure.  Is that true?



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by rj0923, Nov 19, 2011
I'm not doing good maybe I am taking the plunge w/o being ready mentally. I am sitting here feling so low and depressed. I feel so isolated, alone and worthless. It is snowing outside and there is already a foot of snow on the ground. I can't stop crying. I don't want to feel this way anymore. i live in the USA seattle area up n the mountains unemployed and very lonely.



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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 19, 2011
rj,

I felt that way too, especially for the first few weeks.  I did not have much local support (good friends and family are spread out), so in reality I mostly had to tough it out myself.  It did improve - although I still feel worse than the normal me.  

Your body got used to the tram stimulating your happy gland, so to speak.  That happy feeling is what hooked a lot of us.  By taking away that stimulation during WD, your happy gland is not producing enough happy hormones.  Over time, your brain will adjust back to normal.

Stay connected to this forum and we'll try to help you through this.

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by loopey2u, Nov 19, 2011
Yeah, RJ.  Keep posting.  We'll try to help you.  

How many days is it and how many were you taking?  


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by Sarabie, Nov 19, 2011
RJ - we are here for you. You are not totally alone. We'll listen an comfort the best we can.

Love susie

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by booba77, Nov 19, 2011
Hello warriors.  Its me, Booba.  After yet another relapse.  Went back on the trams starting December 23, 2010 and I'm still on them, up to 15-20 of the 50 mgs per day.  I have dug myself into a huge hole of debt from ordering them online.  I have to quit, but I don't know whether to go cold turkey or taper.  I really don't have the money to buy enough to taper, but everyime I go cold turkey I end up relapsing.  I was on wellbutrin for a while, but I stopped taking them so I could stockpike them for when I got off the trams.  I never really had anxiety when I went off trams, so I figured the wellbutrin would be okay to take.  The brain zaps were bad, the RLS, the insomnia, the horrible diarrhea, but the worst of it all-the hopeless, crushing, all-consuming depression.  That is what petrifies me.  Sure, on the trams, I am freaking superwoman-for about 3 months, then your body gets used to them, then rebels.  Then you are snapping at everyone, have the worst mood swings, etc.  I cannot tell anyone about my addiction so I am largely totally alone.  My brother is missing and has been for 2 months and he is probably dead, so that is enough stress for one person to handle.  I am the only other kid, so most of my time is spent researching possible leads for my brothers whereabouts and trying to help my parents deal.  He is missing on the west coast, and I love on the East Coast, so that makes it hard.  I cannot just up and go out there because I have a 6 year old that needs me.  Do any of you remember me?  I have been on here a lot over the years.  I'm sure I have tons of posts immortalized on these pages.  Outlining the hell I have gone through-all of us have gone through.  Tramman999-I am back here relapsing with you buddy.  How are you?  I do remember you.  I'm glad to see other people still on here, but sad that tram has taken so many other people like it took me in.  It makes you feel great, then turns on you.  My life used to be absolutely wonderful.  Now I am hopelessly depressed and I hate myself.  I have no willpower and have tried tapering.  I cannot have someone hold my meds, because I am not about to tell my parents who have a missing son already that their only other kid is addicted to drugs.  And my baby-daddy said he would leave me and take our kid if I ever took them again.  I had a seizure once so it scared him to death.  It should have scared me to death, but look at me, still on them.  I cannot begin to describe the hold they have over my life.  Someone wrote that without them, there is no happiness in life-I totally agree.  How do you break away from that mindset?  What the hell do you do?  I am still on the trams right now.  I am off from Wednesday-Sunday-that is 5 days.  Do I go cold turkey, or taper?  I have 110 pills left.  I have been taking about 15-20 a day.  What is you guys opinion?  I have done the cold turkey, or a rapid taper each time (that pretty much was cold turkey).  I usually live under the guise that I had the flue so no one knows.  It will suck to do this over Thanksgiving break, but I go to other relatives so I only have to bake a few pies.  Please help.  I'm desperate, once again to get clean.  It is the worst possible time for me to do this, because I'm already extremely depressed and worried about my brother.  i had to order his dental records yesterday because they found a body in the area near where he went missing.  It has just been the most traumatic time ever, so I don't know what to do.  I have all of the thomas recipe herbs and aminos.  I have a ton of wellbutrin to take once I go off.  I also have some imitrex that I know is for migraines (I never used it before) but do you think it could help with the WD?  Thank you for listening to me.  I have missed this place.  I hate to be back.  If I had stayed on here regularly I probably never would have relapsed.  I am do disappointed in myself.  I hope you guys have a better day that am.

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by rj0923, Nov 19, 2011
loopey today is my first day of CT. I  stopped at  3 1/2 pills. I was on 9 pills for 7 years, 3x a day like clock work. Never went up and never went down. My doc put me on them cause i have MS ( been in remission for 5 years though) and my legs would hurt and get jumpy very much so like restless leg syndrome. Over the years when ever I was late on my dose my legs would get really restless, but worse than they were before. I thought it was my condition, and here it was fricken withdrawl symptoms all along LOL!!!  So i never missed a dose. i would still be taking this had my mom not ask a favor.  6 weeks ago i looked up a drugged called topamax the docs prescibed for my moms migrains, and she wanted to know if it was addicting. Well it was not, but guess what I saw was. To make a tram story short, I know I no longer feel i need to take this cause the worst my legs ever felt was when I was late on a dose. I never went without long enough or tapered down to know feel real withdraws. This past week I think I was down low enough that my body was going through withdrawl that would not go away and I think I was just prolonging the agony. I feel I am at such dose now that my body is starving anyway whether I continue to taper or not. I will/need to stay in touch cause I don't know if the worst is yet to come. i will say I am scared though and I don't want to ruin my holiday with withdrawl.

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by loopey2u, Nov 19, 2011
I'm at 4 a day, down from 6 and I feel fine.  Then I went down from 4 to 2 for a couple of days and didn't feel right at all.  It was too big of a jump.  I can deal with some discomfort, it's the nature of the beast but not like that.  

Can you taper?  If the doc is giving you the pills then you should be able to do so.  

Wanna taper together?  I just took my 2nd dose of 2 pills about an hour ago.  I can go to 3.5 tomorrow if you want to do it together.  I would like to stay there till I feel completely normal at that dose, and am willing to wait for you to feel the same before we step down again.

What time zone are you?  I'm in Chicago.  

Anybody else care to taper?

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by rj0923, Nov 19, 2011
OMG loopey I love u i don't know if you are a man or a woman. i am a woman happily married, but I don't care i love u anyway.  Yes i am going to taper  with you cause i can't do this anymore today i feel suicidal and I never would say those words in my life. How many times a day do you take them? Thank you and lets do this together. I just took a dose. My husband came home from work and begged for me to continue the taper cause he took my pulse and it was130 beats a minute sitting still.  Guess what I made it 20 hrs.

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by loopey2u, Nov 19, 2011
Hahahahhaah, RJ.  I'm also a happily married woman but I love you too because you're tapering with me.  ;)  

When do you want to start?

Anyway, I usually take my 1st dose (100 mg.) as soon as I wake up, then the other dose around 8 hours later.  Total = 200 mg. a day.

You're at 175?  I can cut down to 175, just have to cut pills.  I could probably try at 150, but I don't want to rush it.  How would you feel about staying at 175 a day for a few more days?  If not, that's OK.  Go with what you're comfortable with and sooner or later I'll catch up.

I'm ready.  Thanks for doing this with me.  I think it'll be easier this way.

If you're not ready I'll wait for you before I continue to wean and if you do the same that'd be great.  The holidays are coming, and I am not prepared to ruin them by tapering too quickly and neither are you.  It's good we're both on board with that.

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 19, 2011
"The brain zaps were bad, the RLS, the insomnia, the horrible diarrhea, but the worst of it all-the hopeless, crushing, all-consuming depression."

Yup - the depression is a deep, black pit that must be endured.  For me, the worst of the depression lasted 2-3 weeks - now it is milder, but still haunting me.  Sunshine and spending some time with loved ones helped the most.

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by Icandothis10, Nov 19, 2011
Loopey and rj - I've learned quickly that tapering too fast is not good.  I thought I could "cheat" my taper system and take a little more out of my doses and my body went ahead and told me not to try that crap again.  Taper and taper SLOWLY!!  VERY slowly.  I'm still at 6 pills per day and will probably be for another week.  Don't jump too quickly.  If you're going to do that, you will feel awful and it's not worth it.  I've realized that since I've been doing this crap for years, why would I want to rush?  Seriously, I've had to tell myself that it may be up to a year for me to taper properly.  I can either take the year to taper, or take the year to continue to abuse.  Either way, the year is going to come and go.  You have to be careful with yourself.  I also realized that a full bottle wasn't enough to taper with.  I needed to order a couple more bottles and I know that cutting a qtr pill every 7 - 10 days is the best way to go to where I can stay functional and not be suicidal.  Get on your schedule and be good to your body.

I honestly don't know how people do this CT.  I just don't.  I couldn't do it.  I can help you guys with your taper too!  

Booba - I'm so very sorry about your brother.  I hope this situation works out for your family and you.   I know it can't feel good for you right now having that problem with the holidays coming up.

I personally don't think you should do a CT over the 4 days.  The major W/D's won't even really hit you until the third day and 4 days just isn't enough for your body to even pop back a little from that amount of pills per day.  I was taking that amount and I can tell you how I got down to 6 a day if you want to do that taper.  I think you should.  Since you order them online (I did too), then you may need to do what I did and realize that you will have to go ahead and purchase a couple more bottles.  I don't mean to have the "well, you're already in debt, what's a little more" attitude, but with this, your sanity and ability to function needs to come first.  You're probably doing exactly what I did, just shoveling 5 or 6 pills at a time down your throat randomly.  Your first step is to pick four times a day that you're going to take your doses and keep that time.  Is that something you think you can do for starters?  I do the following

9:30 a.m.
12:30 - 1:00 pm
2:30 -3:00 pm
5:00 pm

I know I'm supposed to take the doses at the same time but with work, I get busy and lose track of time.  I do well though taking the doses at the approximate times every day.  We're here to help you....

How many pills are you taking at what times a day?  



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by jbr999, Nov 19, 2011
Booba,  the Wellbutrin should make tapering off trams easier. It will help the depression anyway. Start WB at a low dose and go up on them as u taper the trams. Your body doesn't notice dropping from 15 to 10 as much as it will notice the drop from 10 to 5 or from 2 to 1. With the help of WB start with 10 for 3 days then 7/day for 3 days then 5/day for 5days. That's 76 pills, & leaves u with 34..
Then 3/day for 5 days=19 left. 2 a day for another 5 days leaves 9. 1 a day for 6 days then 1/2 pill for 6 more days and ur off! I know it's a fast taper but doable with the help of WB and the many suggestions recommended in these forums--hot baths, Imodium, EXERCISE (really  helps w/ RLS)
This is a suggested course only--do the best you can and post post post!!! It helps to know other people are pulling for you--you're more motivated cuz you don't want to let them down.

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by jbr999, Nov 19, 2011
Booba my suggestion is assuming you don't want to
order any more pills. If you find the
taper too fast and the WDs unbearable you might
Have to go slower and order another 180.
Jbr999

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by loopey2u, Nov 19, 2011
Glad your depression is starting to ease up SingleDad.  I agree, that is the absolute worst part.

Thanks, Ican.  Going slow really stinks when you just want to be done with it, but it looks like that's the only way.  

Hi Booba.  I'm sorry about your brother too, that is horrible.  I hope the Wellbutrin heps ease any side effects you may have.      At 10 pills a day, do you think it's safe to start them though?  I'd be kind of leery of that, the seizure risk and all but that's just me. I looked it up, and I keep seeing warnings about seizures, even more than the tramadol info.

http://www.drugs.com/wellbutrin.html


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by Sarabie, Nov 19, 2011
Booba77 - what a sad story :-( you'll be in my thoughts tonight!!!



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by rj0923, Nov 19, 2011
Had I not gone back to my taper I would not have made mass tonight. My hubby works Sundays so we go on Sat's when we can. My whole life I always had a question about something to do with the hire power i never undersood and My question was answered. My husband said during the sermon i got this expression on my face, like I got it, I finally got it. I told him after church what it was I finally got and he just said wow that's deep baby.

Today's little battle is not going to be wasted though. I was taking the trams 3x a day. because of what I did today, screwed up my dose routine big, so I changed things to where I am going to take it 2x a day. Today I did not fail.

So Loopey I am going to take 1 1/2 in the am around 9 and then 1 1/2 around 5 or 6 in the eve. Please don't taper to the 1 1/2 though so soon. I noticed when I started getting down I had to cut the half in half and so now I am going to taper down 1/4 every 4 days. I think this will work for me every one is different as I learned today. Please continue to do what is best for you, you know your own body.

For those of you who have had to go cold turkey wow and i mean wow. i have never experienced any type of a withdrawl from anything in my life of 49 years and I don't want to ever experience what I experienced today. But, i did make it 20 agonizing hours.

Booba....I am so sorry about your brother. I did have a chance to read your post before I left for church. I said a prayer for you, your family, and your brother. I may not have the strongest faith (mainly in myself), but i do believe in power of prayer...Please stay with us during this time for support no matter what your decision is on the tramadol.

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by fightorfight, Nov 20, 2011
Booba,

You probably don't remember me, as I was headed in, while you were headed out, at the time, from this forum.  I'm sorry to hear about your Brother, and I hope that you get something, anything in the way of information to get your family to progress through whatever it would need too.   When I first got started on Trams, honestly, was probably when my Dad passed away from Lung Cancer.   It was one of those times in my life that nothing looked right--- and if nothing looked right, I couldn't function.    Trams, in their own chemical way, helped me to go through that with my family, at least at first.    I needed them, and that "feeling" of being ok with a world that was crumbling for far too long--- and I, like you, had gotten myself into debt just buying these things online for a year.  I understand, sort of, where you are--- and I empathize.    What sort of choice would a rational person make?  More often than not, its the lesser of two evils, which Tramadol--- at times, seems to be.  It isn't though, as you and I both know.

We're both second (or third, or whatever) time recovery stories, and while I'm not in a similar circumstance, there is no guilt to be felt here.   You needed to do, what you needed to do in order to cope with something, in fact, I'd say you're putting this enormous strain on yourself to help your parents.   I respect, understand, and admire that.   I was in a similar state of things my first go round, and I had to understand that I couldn't bear the weight of the world anymore, even with the pseudo-strength that Tram gives you at first.   We can talk about this in detail later, there is always time for that.

I've made some posts in this thread, and please reference them as you're able, about the chemical nature of the drug and how to combat it-- You're probably already well aware of what goes on initially, and how to stave off some of the worst parts of acute WD.    Physical symptoms are easy to combat, and if you have the space and the time--- will go away regardless of what you do.   Depression, lingering, or overbearing-- is the hardest beast to slay, especially when Tram conditions your internal barometer to get used to Serotonin all day.  

As far as what to do...  Try, hard as you can, to give yourself 15 rational minutes to think about this.   At your dose, tapers can be done faster initially, but then you start to have to wean down slowly.   Thats not a bad thing, but depending on your situation, and finances, may not be feasible.   Fast tapers still work in some regard--- you're at least providing yourself some padding before you hit your acute WD phase---but know that at that high a dose (and believe me, I was shoveling close to the same amount in my first time) your body is only going to be able to metabolize so much of the drug before nothing else will come of it.   Thats why you can drop multiple pills a day, at double digit numbers, and still be alright.

All that said,  you know as well as I do, that time, even just to get through the acute stuff, is really what you need to have.    Ican is right...  5 days,  5 days is not going to be enough to be functional after a C/T from a high dose.   I know its a terrible time, and things look bleak--- but they aren't.   You have beaten this drug before, and you can do so again.    The most important thing for you to do right now, is hold your dose, and think about this.    If you can order another set of 180, that gives you a little more space to taper with.   Thats fine, and tapers work just as well as C/T--- its just about tradeoffs in functionality.   If that isn't the case-- or the ordering isn't possible--- then you need to look to other avenues to get off the medicine, or rather get time to get off the medicine.

Do you have a Doctor you can trust to tell some of this to?  FMLA in the US covers you insofar as not losing your job to recover, so long as the doctor signs off on it.    That might be what you need, if you plan on going thorugh it, right now.    I only say that to make you aware that there are options-- be it the slow taper with planning, or the C/T with medical intervention to get you from where you are to off Tram.  

At this point-- all I want you to do, is think.    Think how you want to tackle this, and then we can provide support and advice once given your thoughts.    Lay aside everything except for this, for a good 15 minutes, and plan.  We can go from there.

I know our situations are radically different, but we're both here, again, getting off tramadol.   I never thought I'd ever need to know as much as I do about pharmacology--- but I needed to know in order to get myself off these things for the last time.    We're here for you Booba.    Think about this, and let us know how we can help you.

FoF

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by loopey2u, Nov 20, 2011
What a nice post FOF. You sure do have a way with words.  

Alright, RJ.  You taper at your pace, I'll taper at mine.  The good thing is we're both tapering.  You're right, I do know my own body, and if it takes a week or 2 of being on 3.5 pills then so be it.

The hasty/impatient part of me just wants to be done, but unfortunately it's just not possible with this stuff.

Have a great day everybody.  It's going to be a busy day around here, but that's good because I won't be obsessing about tapering all day..lol

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 20, 2011
Booba - I am really sorry to hear about what you are dealing with on top of worrying about getting off these meds.  Honestly, it wouldnt be the best time to go CT, only because it will heighten all those issues.  Although there is NEVER a good time for CT.  If you cant afford to order them, do you have insurance to go see a doc and just admit whats going on?  Maybe he can give you some Clonidine and Valium or something.  Valium would help a lot if you havent taken it before, just dont take it too long, only take it during the first 3-4 days.  I know first hand what a benzo WD is like.  

I did a CT last time from 12-15 a day for about 6 months.  I had no idea what to expect.  Day one and two were fine, I didnt sleep a wink the night of day 2.  Went to work on Day 3, left about 9am because I was just out of it.  Tried to lay down and nap, but couldnt sleep.  Then by about noon I was just hit with crazy anxiety and depression.  You will feel like crap physically, but the mental game just aids to you feeling like crap.  I walked around my neighborhood at least 5-6 times, I was just trying to wear my body down so I could sleep it off.  So I went to bed at about 8pm the night of day 3, I didnt sleep much but I did sleep.  Day 4 was much better, mainly because day 3 was so bad that I was just happy it wasnt day 3 again.  I took the day off and still felt bad, didnt sleep much that night or for about 10 days following.  I was at work by day 5 and then day 6 & 7 were the weekend.  I was back in the gym friday (day 5) after work, and saturday morning.  I was just killing time.  I was about as non-productive as one could be at work the next week or two.  Then a big project came up, I had to work one night and decided that I could handle one night of tram, the rest you all know, I dont even need to go into details.  

I didnt take anything during my WD besides Nyquil and other OTC sleeping stuff.  I know everyone preaches about the thomas recipe but it made minimal differences on me personally.  For two days I was frantic, after that I was more pissed at myself for letting me get addicted to something like that.  I couldnt even read these forums anymore, they made me more depressed for some reason.  Almost like it just reminded me of everything.  I painted my whole house during my tram binge and after I got off I just hated the site of it, I just wanted to be away from anything that resembled that time.  I even remember music that was popular during the time when I was on tram and I had to change the channel when a song came on the radio.

I did relapse after 3 weeks, and then I went through this on and off abuse until about January 2010.  Once I got closer to leaving the US for this "awesome" new job that I accepted while high on tram I started getting nervous and sad, so my intake just grew.  Since then it just never really stopped, I was always taking something.  I just had to have something in my system to take reality away.  I never turned to alcohol because I knew hangovers the next morning would make it even worse.

Now, I am just starting my tapering (from 20-25 a day), but I am also changing my lifestyle with it.  I am really trying to get back into the things I enjoyed before tram.  I am trying to kill my depression the right way, so it doesnt hit me twice as hard during the tapering.  For example, last Monday I made a goal to make it to the gym 4 days this week, well today was my 4th.  So know its time to set some more goals, just short ones, nothing to do with trams, just things that will make me feel better.  I also let some people know about what I was going through, that helped a lot.  This is too much of a beast to hide, when you can let it out it doesnt seem so overwhelming anymore.  

I think they should make a little timed safe for people that are trying to withdrawl from meds.  You would put your amount in it when you were mentally strong and then lock it. For the next week it would come unlocked with your taper amount but no more.  I need to invent this if it isnt already invented.  If anyone steals my idea I will track you down :)

Avatar_m_tn
by BeenHereBefore, Nov 20, 2011
I had a really scary "open my eyes" moment here in Afghan.  I lived on the west compound and worked on the east compound.  At this time I was taking maybe 9-12 tram in the morning followed by random 3-6 pills here and there throughout the day.  And I was taking adderall every morning too.
Well, coincidentally I told myself its time to taper, and only put a couple pills in my pocket that morning so I couldnt take many that day.  Unfortunately we got attacked that afternoon, and they hit the west compound pretty bad.  Everyone on the compound was held up in two secure buildings until they got rid of the terrorists, which took about 15 hours!!  It was about 12am when they finally said that we had to find somewhere to sleep on the east side of the compound until further notice.  So everyone bunked up with each other in some apartments for the night.  
Of course I am starting to freak out because I had NO meds on me and was sleeping in an apartment with 10 other people.

The next morning I obviously felt like crap, I dont know if it was self induced anxiety or actual withdrawals.  All I know is I was a mess and couldnt shower, brush my teeth or anything.  And we still didnt know when we could go over to the side we lived on.  I actually went to the little clinic and told them I had been taking tramadol and I quit two days ago so I wasnt feeling well.  I pretended like I had no idea I would have WDs.  Luckily the nurse was naive enough and gave me 8 pills to taper down throughout the next fews days because there was no telling would buildings would be repaired on the other side.
I of course went for broke and slammed all 8.

Luckily around 5pm we were allowed to return to the other side for 2 hours to get clothes, shower, etc.  They then decided it was ok to go ahead and return to our rooms for good.

That situation scared me so much that I carry around an emergency stash of pills just in case.  I take them with me even if I go to the chowhall which is 50 yards away.  Its completely pathetic but opened my eyes to the dangers I face being addicted overseas...  

Sorry for all the posting, very bored tonight and trying to keep my mind busy.

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by rj0923, Nov 20, 2011
Wow BeenHere, your story is pretty much a wake up call for anyone on this crap. I live n the US and just waking up it's 7:30. I started reading your story lying in bed half a wake and I got into it so much I am fully awake now and up. I want to never go through what I went through trying to CT and that was without for 20 hrs not even in the accute state of WD yet.

Loopey good for you, you're on 3.5 a day.  

Avatar_m_tn
by BeenHereBefore, Nov 20, 2011
I think the nurse actually thought I was just panicked by the attack and was ready to give me some valium or something.  I had been to Baghdad for 3 years and was much closer to rockets than that.  I just remember she kept saying how trauma can lead to an upset stomach and anxiety.  She had no idea who she was dealing with, when she asked how much I was taking I said 6-8 a day (the max dosage) when in reality it was 20.  Im not sure what she would of done if I said I usually take about 20 a day....

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 20, 2011
BeenHereBefore,

I always carry a small stash in my pocket and a larger stash in my bookbag, which is nearly always with me.  I travel a lot and never want to take the risk of forced CT in a strange city because I can't get to my pills.

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by Sarabie, Nov 20, 2011
I too started having a stash with me. I went out shopping one day and suddenly I felt an extreme pain in my leg. My achilles tendon had snapped over. So I couldn't walk and my boyfriend took me to the hospital where I had to stay for almost a week. there was so much going on, that I had forgotten about the pills untill I started getting w/d's. I had a friend who I knew had been prescribed tramadol earlier, so I texted her and asked if she still had some. She then came to the hospital and gave me her pills. I think there was about 10 and  that saved me that day. Afterwards I needed my boyfriend to bring my bottle frome home. He couldn't really understand why I needed my own medicine at the hospital... I guess I came up with a lie. Don't even remember. But from that day, I always had a bottle in my purse.

I actually realized how addicted I was. But like many of you, I just couldn't find the perfect time to quit. I could pretend to have the flue and my boyfriend would definately had been nursing me. But I just wasn't ready to be confronted with reality yet. There had been too many lies and I just wanted to close my eyes and let all the bad stuff go away. So I continued my abuse. If I had only known then what I know now... But better late than never. I went CT, I confronted my demons and apolegized to everyone I'd hurt along the way, explained everything and for the first time in years I feel good about myself again :-)

It's a newfound liberty that I don't need a bottle of pills on me all the time. That I don't need to worry about where I'll get my next bottles etc. Tramadol is very cheap here in Denmark compared to the States. I only paid 4 dollars for a bottle with 100 50 mg's, so at least I didn't get myself into deep debts as well. Pure luck I guess.


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by Icandothis10, Nov 20, 2011
Suzie - That's one main reason that I finally decided it was time to stop.  What if I get overseas and can't get the bottles as easily as I did when I went last time.  Something could always go wrong and since it was "always going wrong" here in the states getting these damn things, I knew something would definitely go wrong there and the thought put me in an utter panic!  I still have to probably order one more bottle to leave with but I know that over 250 pills will definitely cover my taper.  I went down another qtr pill today so I'm going to be fine but just thinking about randomly popping pills and then looking at a low bottle knowing that I have to get another one just turns my stomach.  I'm so glad that I won't have to worry about that.  I won't be having any bottles shipped to me there.  Can't wait to be completely clean and not worry about that.


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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 20, 2011
Susie,

Your hospital experience is one of the reasons I finally decided to quit - I hated feeling so vulnerable - knowing that I would be in deep $h|t if for some reason I couldn't get them.

Wow - 4 cents each in Denmark - I usually pay about 60 cents each.

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by booba77, Nov 20, 2011
Guys, thanks for thee wonderful responses. I'm  running errands, but I will think long and hard before I write back about what I want to do. Someone asked about my dosing schedule. I usually take about 4 at 8am, 3 more at 11 am, 3 at 2pm, 3 at 5pm, and 5 more at random times throughuout the  evening. Any suggestions on a taper schedule would be appreciated. Gotta run. I'm going to do more thinking and i'll write back later

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by Sarabie, Nov 20, 2011
Ican - seriously if something happens to your stash while you are in kuwait, let me know and I'll personally send you some for your taper. And trust me - it's fantastic not having to worry about that anymore. You'll be there soon too :-)

single - also one of my main reasons. Also, it was extremely painfull with the ripped tendon, cause trams didn't really do anything for the pain as I was so used to them. Got some morphine after the surgery and they actually also gave me tramadol at the hospital, but I couldn't really tell them that 50 mg 3 times a day were worthless.

I have decided to go shopping tomorrow. I haven't done that for ages. I'm pretty sure that'll release som endorfines and serotonin :-)

Love Susie

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by Icandothis10, Nov 20, 2011
Thank you Susie, that's very sweet...I will order one more bottle and since I'm at 5.75 a day now, I just can't see where 250+ pills will not give me what I need for a very slow taper.  I'll definitely let you know though.  Man, 4 cents a piece...it is all about money here in the states....people like are us are making some dirtbags rich!  

booba - at least you have some idea of what you can "schedule" since you know how many you take at what time.  That's a very good start.  And like someone said, taking down a couple pills at a time isn't noticeable when your doses are that high.  I went from 20 - 30 a day down to 16 on taper day one and 15, 14, 12 etc. until I got below 10 and I didn't notice it much at all until I started getting to lower doses.  you can set your doses at 4 a day.  Let us all know when you want to get started!


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by Sarabie, Nov 20, 2011
Well i guess the price is the same here as in the states, but the state pays a great deal of our meds. I think 85% or something like that. But - we do pay at least 40% in income tax :-)

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by loopey2u, Nov 20, 2011
Have fun shopping!  

3.5 today and so far so good.  It's a step towards freedom.  

Busy and good day today.  The new Zelda came out (video game) and the hubby and kids have been doing that all day.  I cooked a nice meal, and now I'm just waiting for my Sunday night TV shows to come on.  

I love days like this.

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by rj0923, Nov 20, 2011
3 for me to today and so far so good here too. My attempt to go CT yesterday screwed up my tram schedule so much (in a good way) I not only went down a 1/2 pill, but went from taking a dose 3x a day to twice a day. Loopey I think we are now both am and early pm takers now.

When I first started this taper, I decided to turn it into a game. I am in control of this game, the outcome and I will know who cheats.  I don't know when the game will end, but I know the outcome. I WILL WIN!!!!!  

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by loopey2u, Nov 20, 2011
That's a really good way to look at it and I'm going to use it too.  Thanks!  

Glad you were able to drop that last dose AND 1/2 a pill.  That's awesome.  

Staying at 3.5 till Wed., and if I feel good Thursday morning I'm going to drop to 3.  It's going to get harder and harder to step down after that but it can and WILL be done.



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by Icandothis10, Nov 20, 2011
loopey, that's awesome....if you get a little anxious, you can always only drop a qtr pill since your dose is lower.



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by rj0923, Nov 20, 2011
Ya that's what I was doing. I was doing it to quickly though and it was making me so uncomfortable that after a week of feeling that way I thought I was ready to take the plung....WRONG!! When you go down 1/4 continue to take your time. I thought wow what's  only 1/4 of pill, so instead of going down every 4-5 days depending on how I was feeeling like I did when I was going down 1/2 a pill, I tried dropping 1/4 every 2-3 days. But, I guess I had to find out for myself.....and boy did I.

I also decided today that I am not going to let my body have dose schedule anymore cause my body knew when it was time. I am now waiting until It get too uncomfortable. I change the rules in my game I guess you could say....LOL!!  I haven't had anything since 10am. My plan was 9 and again around 5 or if it got to tough 6.  Well It's 7:15 right now and still no pill, but I can start to fee the fog rolling in. I am going to go take a bath and try and wat till 8, so talk to you around 8 when don't I stink anymore.

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by booba77, Nov 21, 2011
I am so proud of you tapering.  I have ordered another bottle of 180.  Okay y'all, help me make up a schedule.  I'm going to start today taking 16.  i will try to spread them out in 4 doses.  I really want to try to only take 14, but we'll see.  I have about 70 pills plus the 180 coming.  Make me a decent schedule!!!!  I have no willpower, but i really want to give this a try.  My family has put up with enough of my emotional breakdowns.  Plus we just found another set of dental records for my brother, so in about 8-9 days I should know if this body they found is my brother's.  My mom really feels this is not his body, and I really hope she is right.  How crappy would it be to find out your son is dead on Thanksgiving break?  Anyway I'm staying positive.  I love you guys.  Thank you for the support.  I wanted to write back last night but I fell asleep putting my daughter to bed.  I sleep with her a lot.  She is so cuddly and sweet when she is sleeping as opposed to when she's awake...lol.  I will try to write more tonight.  I feel better knowing that I'm not going cold turkey.  I would like a little insight on when to start the wellbutrin into my taper.  I'm assuming I won't start it until I am on a much, much lower dose.  And let me know how to get down to around 10 or less a day on a quicker taper.  Thank you for your help guys.  I really appreciate it.

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by loopey2u, Nov 21, 2011
16 day 1

14 day 2

12 day 3

10 day 4

10 day 5

That's 62 pills right there.  
Then see you how you feel.  You might have to stay at 10 till you stabilize, then cut from there. If you're fine with this then:

8 day 6 (See how you feel, you might really be feeling it by now)   Now we're at 70 pills, and you've got 180 more from your new order.  

I noticed going from 6-4 was barely noticeable, and so did a lot of other people in the group.  It's when you start getting down to small amounts is where it seems to get harder.  

Hope this helps  

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by Icandothis10, Nov 21, 2011
Loopey, that's a pretty good schedule.  Unfortunately, I don't think it's the answer to a 30 pill a day addiction.  I was taking that many and it took me two months to drop to 6 and I had quite a few uncomfortable moments along the way.  Booba- I think you may want to go ahead and face the fact that there really is no quick and easy way out of this.  You will have to taper at your own pace, find out what works for you and find out what doses make you able to function and how long to take them.  Nobody can really make your schedule for you.  We can be here to help you along the way but it's not easy.  I suggest you take the first couple days to see what the least amount is that you can handle and take it from there.  You also need to decide if you really want to do this or not.  If you have no will power and you know now that you will end up taking more than your daily dose, then tapering isn't the way for you to go.  Good luck

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by Sarabie, Nov 21, 2011
I don't have any suggestions to your taper schedule Booba. I went from 24 to 0 in five days and then CT. It was awfull but so worth it now. But I think you'll need to find your own schedule. We are all different and what works for me doesn't necessarily work for anyone else. So go ahead and cut as many off as possible and find your own level, where you can still function and don't suffer too much.

I have a question for you tapering guys... When I started using tramadol I increased the dose when 1 pill weren't enough any longer. So I was wondering - won't your bodies develop the same resistance towards the small doses and crave more instead of making it easier to cut further down? Which will make it harder and harder, meaning  a great deal of suffering?  :-( I hope it's not like that, but it just seems logic,

No shopping for me today anyways - it's raining cats and dogs, so not exactly a great day to be outside. But in one hour, my soccer match is on and I'm so exited about it :-D

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by Icandothis10, Nov 21, 2011
Suzi, - I'm not sure if I understand your question.  I know that tapering is my only way.  When I got on the lower doses, I did in face have some very uncomfortable moments, meaning my body was wanting more tram because it was used to receiving it.  However, I "willed" it if you will into knowing that it won't get any more and that it will have to just deal with what it has.  I have tapered pretty slow.  I'm still kind of "stuck" between 5.5 and 6 pills but once my parental units leave, I'll cut probably a whole pill.  It will be uncomfortable because again, my body was used to getting a certain amount (I've been at 6 pills for a couple weeks but REFUSE to go any higher) and I'll train my body and mind into knowing that it isn't going to get what it wants, more tram.

I feel completely normal.  I did a pretty quick taper (not as quick as you) but pretty quick starting the last week of Oct and I was about 25 - 30 pills a day at random, whenever the hell I felt like it, times.  I have had to stay at 6 for a while now but will be able to lower again.  I'd rather be at 6 than 30 though....I feel so much better.   I'm not burning up all the time, I am not nearly as irritable and impatient and I can get out of bed in the morning without the horrible depression that I had before.  

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 21, 2011
Booba, are you seeking any other counseling for what is going on with your family?  I think you have to deal with the underlying depression during the process.  Counseling or therapy is not for just crazy people.  Its completely healthy to routinely discuss your situation with someone that has experience in helping people cope.  I think you mentioned you dont have any insurance.  I dont know but there might be free counseling available.  It might not be the finest PhDs, but all it takes is someone to listen to you.  

You have a lot on your plate, and someone of us might not have the exact same situation but we might have ones that affect us the same way.  Depression is your enemy when fighting this.  You dont want to think about tapering, your mom, your brother, the holidays, etc.  Dont put it all on your shoulders if you dont have too.  

If your outcome doesnt turn out to be positive with your brother you need to have a support system in place so you dont fall without someone there to catch you, and we dont want that someone to be the tramadol.  

I know its always easier for the other person to say it, and then you actually do it.  But I am a firm believer in fixing the depression that led to your abuse before you just try to kill the abuse.  Do it in parallel if you can.  This just dawned on me.  I thought it had to be CT or nothing.  But the only way I can taper is to deal with whats been making me eat tramadol like its popcorn.

I am no where near a professional, but I am a realist.  Tapering is f'ng hard mentally, and if you got something else going on as well, then that is just pushing you to take more than its time to tackle that.  It can be a ticking time bomb.  

Think of how much better the world we be if everyone was required to go to quality therapy twice a week.....  Its a utopian, tree-hugger idea but I imagine it could only help.  I have went to therapy, I never went long enough to get what I should out of it, but I also never really opened up all the way.  

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 21, 2011
I'm on day 7 of being off tramadol.  I haven't posted very much because I have tendinitus in my hand and don't want to make it worst by typing too much.

But I'm doing much better than I expected.  I'm not having anxiety and the depression is lifting.  I think I was on such a low dose that I would go through WD on a daily basis.  Yesterday I actually felt good and was not taking any meds at all.

I took Tram for pain for the last 3 1/2 years.  I'm not sure right now how much it helped the pain as I feel no difference in that  regard.  But I'm being very careful with my back.

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by tramsick, Nov 21, 2011
FOF, need your advice again on the antidepressant subject again.  You are going to get tired of my indecisiveness, but I'm getting so much pressure to take the Lexapro I'm out of my head.  See, my brother is a pharmacist.  His point of view is that the Klonopin I'm on (.5 mg/2x per day) is going to be awful to withdraw from on my own and thinks I'll need the cushion of the Lexapro.  

However, I feel I'm inevitably going to have to deal with withdrawal from either the Klons or later from the Lexapro as well.  What will be worse?  I guess nothing could be worse than my tram w/d, I just want to end the withdrawal suffering and eventually be pill free.  I took a small dose of Lexapro yesterday morning with a Klon as directed and felt SO exhausted.  Slept an hour and felt out of it all day, as I suspected, I would not feel well on the antidepressant.  But, my doc and brother insist with time, it gets better, and it will be a breeze getting off the Klons.

So, my brother suggested taking the Lex at night to deal with the sedation.  I'm inclined to keep trying, against your suggestion and my own as well.  I just wanted to wean off Klons but my brother keeps reminding me my anxiety might still be there, that I have a blood level of Klons keeping it at bay. What do you think?  Really didn't want to be a zombie for Thanksgiving, but looks like if I try the antidepressant, it will be that way.  I just want all of  this to end and go back to my normal self, fast.  It's been too long. How are you doing?  I hope still well.  You are such a comforting voice in this forum.  I appreciate you.

As for you brave, brave people tapering, I wish you well.  I went CT over 90 days ago, and went throught hell, and my recovery has been rough, rougher than I ever expressed on this board, so I think you have the right idea.

Booba, I'm so frightened for you, your family and brother.  I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.  Makes my problem seem so small.

Everyone, stay in the fight, we will all get better together.

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by booba77, Nov 21, 2011
Hey Guys!  I'm typing this from work, which is probably a huge no-no, but what the hell can i do?  My smart phone is horrible and I hate swype.  You are probably right.  I will probably have to develop my own taper schedule on my own.  I'm just looking for any help at all because I am entirely on my own on this tapering and getting off of this horrible stuff.  I do have health insurance.  I have a pretty decent job and I've been here 11 years.  I love it here and we haven't had any paycuts or been cut back yet, which is great.  I am petrified to go to a doctor and ask for tram or valium or even tell them what is going on.  My mom gave me some clonazepam.  Is that a benzo?  I have never taken them.  She calls them her nerve pills.  I just assumed they were benzos.  Anyway, I have no counselor.  I know that shrinks aren't just for crazy people, but even with health insurance (which doesn't cover anything like that) I cannot afford it.  Apparently only people with great health insurance that don't live paycheck to paycheck can afford counseling, which I find unfortunate.  I call my cat Bobo, my prozac, or "Bozac" because snuggling with him always makes me feel better.  I really don't have anyone to talk to about my brother, and honestly he has been missing for 2 months, and we are all talked out.  The waiting is horrible, especially now that there is a body found and we are trying to match up dental records.  The detective ordered the new xrays today.   Apparently my brother had crowns put on, which makes me think that this body probably really is his.  I don't know how to feel about it.  I guess the tram makes me not feel anymore.  And right now that is probably a good thing.  We are an incredibly strong family.  I know that my depression lies more than likely in how my life has turned out and how my **** poor decisions created this.  So the reason my life is so crummy is because of the decisions I made and continue to make.  I don't know any way to combat that though, mainly because I am not financially able to fix the problems in my life.  There is no magic fairy that will make my brother come back or make me not have $40,000 in credit card debt, or stop my parents from aging, etc, and a counselor cannot help me with it either-all they can do is charge money to listen to me ***** about it.  I'm sure it is helpful to some people, and it would help me too I'm sure, but I'm determined to do this on my own without the help of any doctor, my spouse or family.  I want to do it alone.  I created this mess alone so I should be the person to get myself out of it.  The figuring out how and having the nerve and mental power is my main fear.  Tram really has screwed everything up for me.  I used to read, play the piano, I had hobbies, etc.  I miss the old me, but I'm also scared that I will never get her back.  I was tram-free for such a long time and I have relapsed so many times.  I have always gone cold turkey and it ended with my relapse, so I am hoping that tapering will work for me.  I am so snippy and angry all the time, have no patience, etc.  I don't know if it is me or the tram anymore.  

FOF-I would love some advice from you as well on when to start the wellbutrin in my taper.  Do I wait until I'm down to 4 a day to start?  Or another number?  Just curious.  Any help would be appreciated.  You are a great voice on this forum.  Your wisdom and insight are extremely helpful and comforting.

Loopey-thank you for the taper schedule.  I think the beginning might be too quick for me, but I am definately cutting bigger doses in the beginning.  

Sarabie-Enjoy the soccer-and thank you for your thoughts and prayers.  I will write more tonight after I get home, bake a chicken, do my thousand chores and put the kid to bed.  Only one more workday left after this one.  

Keep up the good fight people.  Thank you for your thoughts and prayers.

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by tramsick, Nov 21, 2011
Oh, just wanted to add that I'm back at the gym.  It feels amazing and it will help with everyone's recovery to get regular excercise, as soon as you feel better or you don't have any physical limitations.  Being outdoors, if just for a walk, does wonders too, but you have to be out of the acute withdrawals.  It could help as your tapering too, as long as you feel well enough.  Keep your head up everyone and stay strong!

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by tramsick, Nov 21, 2011
Boooba, thought I'd answer your clonazepam question.  It is what I'm on for my anxiety, it has been the last and lingering w/d symptom in my tram fight.  Clonazepam is the same as Klonopin and a miracle drug if you have anxiety.  It's just you can get dependent on them if taken consistenly over time.  At the time I started though, my panic attacks were insane, so there was no choice and they really did work. They have a long half life, so I've only had to take 2/day. Over time, however, you do become tolerant, so the same dose won't always work as well as it did in the beginning.  We have to do what we have to do to cope, so if you have acute anxiety, they will help.  Just watch the dependency issue, as I am trying to do.  Everything has a catch, I'm afraid.

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by booba77, Nov 21, 2011
I never had anxiety with withdrawals. Just the physical stuff and depression. Thanks for letting me know

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by NikkiHK, Nov 21, 2011
Hi everyone,

It's good to find you. I had read a bunch of the posts from 2008 before making my way to the present day. Thank goodness for Emily, and for all of you. I had been taking Tramadol for 4 years (300-400 mg/day) due to chronic pain from a car accident. I became pregnant in September so had to stop. One of the many blessings of pregnancy, I guess you could say. I did a one-week taper with help from my doctors. I took my last dose about 3.5 weeks ago. The first couple of weeks (week of taper, plus first week w/o the med) were ROUGH but it has become progressively better. I'm now having difficulty determining whether the effects I'm feeling are w/d or pregnancy. I am sleeping at night, but I will take a Benadryl when needed to sleep. I just couldn't deal with the insomnia on top of being pregnant. Right now, the main side effect I'm having is tingly legs. Different from RLS, but it's pretty constant. Thankfully, it has gotten better over the past week. Has anyone else dealt with the tingling during w/d? Last week my arms and legs would tingle, particularly at night. Now it's just my legs. Thank you to all for your courage and honesty.

Nikki

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by Sarabie, Nov 21, 2011
Dear Booba... Like you, I just couldn't face all the stuff that went on in my life, so I chose to be sedated on trams 24/7. But one thing I have learned is how much brighter everything is, when the sedation is gone. I was suddenly in a position where I could make wise decisions again, think clearly, be logic and get the problems solved one by one. Some stuff can't be fixed, but it has been so much easier to accept that without trams. To me that is. I seriously hope that you'll have the same experience.

Ican - I know that you'll have to taper so slowly and I think it's awsome that you can do it !!! I could never do it like that. I don't quite know how to put it, but I think you answered my question. It's will over body. I was just wondering, cause we are used to increase the dose, when the body has settled on an amount of tram. And now it's opposite. When the body and mind has settled, the dose is being cut again. So I was thinking that would increase the w/d's?? Mayby not now, but when you are on only 1 tablet a day. But I guess the trick is to cut before the body wants more?

I'm coming down with something. Can't remember the word in English - when your throat is sore and the tonsils are swollen and you have a feber. But it's ok - I wasn't sick one single day during all my years on tramadol, so I guess it's my turn. But... I managed to get my rubiks cube solved in under two minutes. 1,51 to be exact :-D



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by Icandothis10, Nov 21, 2011
booba - Are you sure you don't want to tell your spouse?  I honestly thought I couldn't tell mine but I did and I'm telling you, it is probably one reason why I can do my taper.  I know that he's aware and if I relapse, I'll be embarrassed and not be able to face him and it's so wonderful not having to hide it anymore either.  I can cut and take my pills out and put them in my little carrier for the next day and not have to worry about him walking in and seeing me.  It's better if you have someone who knows.  However, you can do it.  I didn't think I had the will power but when I know how far I've come and just the thought of going back to where I was at 30 a day makes me sick.  It is one thing that keeps me from going over.  

I do have one bit of advice that I hope will help.  Don't think about "when I get"....you can't.  If you do, you'll rush yourself and be miserable, end up dropping too fast and getting upset with yourself.  Take it one day at a time and reward yourself for getting through that day with a lower dose of tram.  Don't think about two months, two weeks or two days from now.  You need to live your life and just include the tram to give yourself enough to live your life for the day.  I hope that makes sense.  Also, if you're throwing an entire bottle of pills in your purse before work, stop.  Take out what you need for the day.  That is another thing that stopped me from "taking just a couple more"  

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by Sarabie, Nov 21, 2011
I agree. It's such a relief to tell someone what's going on!! But as I read it, booba is alone with the kids right? I'm single too but told my parents. Which made it so much easier than if I'd had to hide it an lie once again. I know your parents are filled up with your missing brother, but ask yourself - if it was your daughter struggling with what you are going through, wouldn't you like to know and help her? My mum is dealing with a sky high bloodpreasure so I didn't want to tell her so she would worry. It turned out that she knew something was wrong and it stressed her out that she didn't know what. So it was a relief for both of us when I finally swallowed my pride and told her. So please booba - confide in someone close to you.

I'll try sending some good vibes and carma across the Atlantic.

Love, Susie

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by Sarabie, Nov 21, 2011
Oh and welcome Nikkie :-D i don't quite know what you mean about your legs, but I Can tell you that I had a lot of pain in mine for the first couple of weeks. I also had cramps in them and they were constantly moving up and down.

Love, Susie

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by fightorfight, Nov 22, 2011
Evening guys, sorry its been a bit.

Tram(nolonger)sick - Well, I mean if you're getting this intense pressure to take the Lexapro, I'm not sure.   Your brother is half-right in regards to coming of Klons--- but for the amount of time you've been taking it, it wont be hellish, even if you went c/t from them.    Klons are longer dose Benzos,  full metabolic life can be between 18 and 50 hours.   Notice the HUGE range of time there-- people who have been at a high dose for a long time become tolerant and you see that number go down significantly.     You've been taking what, essentially 1mg of it a day for about 30 or less days?   Due to the Half-life discrepancy, that'd put you at somewhere along the lines of .75mgs of Xanax, or 5mgs of Valium a day.   Which, by comparison, is relatively small.    Klons get a bad rap probably because they can be abused significantly, just like any other Benzo--- and the half-life works against you if that was the modus operandi.      However, you're at a small dose, and any W/D would come to you very slowly-- though I honestly doubt you'd have much of any,  plus the taper strats for Klons are easy to do.     Both your doctor, and your Brother should know that Klons can be tapered just as easily, if not more so, for someone who is taking the medication as prescribed.    Its when Abuse comes in to play that long half life drugs are tough.   I'm really at a loss as to why they're so worried, maybe they're confusing your recent recovery with Klon dependency?      

If your brother is that worried about it, he could just as easily switch you to Valium, which has entire medical journals dedicated to tapers---- and that drug's metabolite life is 60-200 hours.    Long Half Life Benzos are used to get people OFF Benzos, not the other way around, medically.  I'm not sure what to say other than-- if worse would come to worst, there are easy avenues to get yourself off them,  SSRI or no.

Far as the Lexapro, and my personal misgivings about the drug aside, my pDoc always would have me start any SSRI (with the exception of Prozac) at night, and would also taper me up on a smaller dose over a period of two weeks.   Now, obviously, I didn't have much luck with any of the possibly sedating SSRIs.   Prozac is actually mildly activating, as I explained before--- I take my dose in the morning with breakfast.  But taking SSRIs at night with slow ramp up periods is the normal way to go about taking them.  

Honestly, I don't think your anxiety attacks had much at all to do with a GAD diagnosis.   Rather, your adrenal system was out of wack from Tram-- thus the attacks after workouts, stressful situations, etc.  Lexapro may help you--- it might.   I can't say for sure, and maybe taking it at night would help with the daytime sedation,  but I can't honestly believe that you're in need of it to treat an Anxiety disorder, or to even come off the Klonopin.    Thats your call as always, but, since you're asking, I'd ask to try to taper the Klonopin-- get down to  half your dose in a week, and see how you feel.    You'd know at that point, I'd imagine, if Klons were helping you feel better..... or if you, just you, are better.   My 2 cents at least.   I'm at .5mg a day of Klon at night, and will probably stop taking it within the next two weeks myself.   I don't think its doing much (I have an enormous cross tolerance to benzos due to being on sleeping medications like Lunesta and Ambien for a decade).  Sleep and I never really got along anyway.

Booba-  Wellbutrin is strictly an NRI-- doesn't touch your serotonin receptors with any measure of force.  You could start taking it today if you wanted to, you'd run no risk of Serotonin Syndrome-- the two drugs can co-habitate,   I wouldn't suggest you start taking it though until you wean down a bit on the tram, maybe to a single digit pill per day T dose--- not because you're going to hurt yourself, but too much NRI results in lots of agitation, headaches, basically a dysphoric amount of energy.   No sense revving up your engines until they're actually in need of it, so to speak.   Wellbutrin has helped a lot of people post Tram with energy issues, and I think a few people stopped smoking too.    Thats the only other thing I would caution, if you do smoke,  Wellbutrin (depending on your dose) will cause you to get sick if you try to smoke.   Thats why its indicated as a smoking cessation drug, and was its primary patent in the US before its use in Depression and ADD.   Taking the NRI withdrawl out of the equation will make it easier to come off Tram in the end--- You'll suffer the acute opiate WDs, and then the lingering serotonin related problems.   However, that 15-30 or 45 day window of just..."Christ, I wish I felt like doing something, if I had the energy" wont be there as much, if at all.  

Hope everyone is doing well--- I'll update in earnest here in a day or so when I can find the time to write it all down.   Let it be known that I'm doing very well and going to the gym again.   Shoulder feels better than it has in months, and I've been at the weights lightly again.   I also discovered the joys of the elliptical machine and a good playlist on my phone--- so now I can sweat as much as you all running on the treadmills ;).

FOF

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by loopey2u, Nov 22, 2011
3.5 and holding.  Last night was terrible, I was literally jumping out of my skin and I know it was from the Tramadol.  I took 1/2 a muscle relaxer and was fine in half an hour but still................

Hopefully next week I can be down to 3.

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by tramsick, Nov 22, 2011
Fof, thanks. I'm still on board with you.  Went to take the Lex last night and I just couldn't.  Something screamed inside me that I didn't need it.  I've already halved my dose of Klon. yesterday and I'm going to do this for a week, then go to quarters for a week, then stop.  I want to prove to everyone I don't need the SSRI and I can get off the Klons.  I know I can do this.  I have to try.  I mean it when I say it can''t be any worse than my tram withdrawal, that was hellish.  If I could do that, I can do anything.

My brother is such an authority in our family and I really love and respect him, but sometimes we know better about ourselves than we think.  I was just fighting what I truly know inside about myself.  The whole tram. fiasco just has me out of my mind.  Made me weak when I know I'm strong enough to make decisions regarding myself.  Healthy  decisions from here on out.

I'm glad you are well and back at the gym and your shoulder is feeling better.  It's good to go light on the weights at first, been doing that too.  It's nice to have that natural antidepressant back in our lives, isn't it.  Thanks again for your advice, but especially for not judging me.  Been under the microscope lately with the judgement and it doesn't feel good.

Love and strength to all.  Keep fighting!

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 22, 2011
About the SSRIs, everyone seems to have different reactions to them, its why there are numerous ones on the market.  I have stopped taking lexapro numerous times.  The thing with SSRIs is, you dont even feel them for a couple weeks, and its very gradual.  You wont just wake up euphoric and happy.  When you stop, it will take a couple weeks to even notice it.  Prozac in its early days was supposedly very difficult to quit, I think there were lawsuits against the company.  I was only on 10mg of Lexapro, but its honestly no were near any other WDs.  Benzo withdrawals SUCK.  I went through 3 weeks of hell getting off valium BUT I didnt wean.  I went from 50mg at night to zero.  I was on edge all the time, the only thing I had going for me was that I just got home from Iraq so it was nice to be home.  Dont get hooked on the benzos, they are so easy to get hooked on, just like tram, but take forever to WD from.  

My buddy was a nurse in the army and then worked as a nurse at the hospital here.  He took lexapro and recommended it to me.  Just experiment with different ones, they are not narcotics so doctors will prescribe them like tylenol.  I think Celexa is the cheaper form of Lexapro, but I liked Lexapro better.  

Getting off tram is a mind game.  I bet your doctor could give you a prescription for motrin but tell you its this new anti-depression/anxiety med to combat opiate WDS, and you would probably think its working.  You are so used to the process of popping pills.  Havent you ever felt some WDs, like depression or anxiety, and popped some tram.  Immediately, the WDs went away, like 10 seconds after you swallowed the pulls.  I personally have noticed that, and its obvious that mentally I was making it worse.

Thats why its good to tell someone as well.  When you tell someone it does release a lot of pressure.  You have to physically say it though, not just post to a bunch of random people on here.  You have to tell someone in your family or a close friend.  Just say "hey, I messed up. I had no idea tramadol was this addicting".  No one here is a junkie for getting hooked on this stuff, no one here is meeting their dealer in some dark alley to get their fix.  We ARE addicts, but we were probably addicts before tramadol.  I know a whole lot of people that go boozing 4-5 times a week, thats an addict too.  Its just a socially accepted one.  I have always had an addictive personality, I just happened to find a very easily obtainable opiate like painkiller.  Just dont get down on yourself because of this addiction.  Dont think about it every second of the day, it only makes it worse.  Start working on the reason why you take the meds in the first place.  Get some exercise, make some good changes in your life that you can be proud of.  Then as you taper off the meds you have positivity to counter the bad feelings you will get from the chemicals leaving your body.  

Like I mentioned before, I went CT off a 12-15 a day habit.  During the WDs I had this mentality that I didnt want to take anything that is prescribed.  I had xanax but didnt take any.  I had a whole bottle of tram but never came close to taking any.  I only missed two days of work and two days from the gym.  Although once I was clean there I was.... bored again.  I started going to a counselor during the WDs, then I just quit because I said I didnt need it.  Well, I got bored and had the same issues before I took tram in the first place and ended up relapsing.  I didnt try to fix the root of it all, I just fixed the tramadol addiction for a couple weeks.

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 22, 2011
I'm on day 8 and doing good.  I still don't want to eat much of anything.  I didn't want to eat much when I was taking tramadol either.  I'm having ringing in my ears.  I think that is a side effect of Lyrica, which I stopped 2 weeks ago.  Anyone else have ringing in the ears?

I so appreciate everyone posting about this drug.  I never used it to get high, but for pain.  And then I did use it for the energy push.  At first I thought it was wonderful and I felt "better than before".  I made some wierd decisions under it's influence.  And I am amazed my chronic pain is actually better than when I was taking 300 mg of Lyrica and 50-100mg of tramadol.  I do feel like both of these drugs did some damage to my body that I hope heals fully.  I'm not a young person, nor in great shape.  But I do hope I can recover and feel good about life again.

I'm still having some suicidal thoughts, but I also have some unresolved grief and some life challenges.  I never thought much about getting older and my body wearing out.  The tram did make me feel superhuman.  But I'm sure it messed with my adrenal glands.  I hope to start making it to the gym, even just  to use the treadmill.

Thanks for everyone's posts.

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 22, 2011
Yoyo - exercise is key, especially cardio (walking, elliptical, cycling).  With weight training you will want to start slow, esp if your not getting enough nutrition.  But just sweating it out will make your body and mind feel better.  I think exercise is at the top of the list for getting over any drug, and staying off.  If its available, try a beginners yoga class.  The best thing you can take from yoga, besides becoming more flexible to get rid of pain, is the focus on breathing.  It all centers around your breathing, and somewhat like meditating.  And the routines are built for beginners and advanced.  I am a guy that has been doing strength training for 10 years so I am not the most flexible, but I love yoga.  

I get ringing in the ears sometimes from taking tram, not sure if thats a WD symptom.  

I went to a pharmacy in Bahrain for a headache or something and they gave me 200mg capsules of Lyrica.  I dont think I have ever slept so deep in my entire life.  Weird med.  

Day 8 is basically the end of the physical stuff.  I was on 12-15 a day and was actually sleeping again by day 10.  

You know, tram does make you feel superhuman, but I noticed more weight gain from eating less.  I think it messes with your metabolism, possibly slowing it down.  Im not sure but it seemed to act almost like cortisol does when you are stressed. It makes you gain body fat in the common places that men do, at least I noticed it.  That would also attribute to not eating my 5 small meals a day and only eating 3 larger meals, also not making it to the gym as much.  

Yoyo, if you have the finances, you might want to try and get a trainer.  If you are new to the gym it can be overwhelming.  A trainer will help you get a routine down and a diet plan.  It will give you something to focus on.  

I had suicidal thoughts plenty of times.  I am 34, in good shape, have a great job, but I really honestly thought about leaving it all behind.  Tramadol and your brain dont like breaking up.  The thoughts will surpass a lot faster than you realize.  Just dont let yourself sit around and think about it.  I know thats the easiest to do, lock yourself up and hide from the world when you get the chance.  But it just prolongs it.  You are ahead of me, I just started tapering, you are done with that part.  You did something that many cant.  Dont let that hard work go to waste.  You got past the part everyone dreads.  This is your life and only yours, you choose the outcome.  Tramadol isnt choosing it for you anymore, you have control over your body and mind now.  So keep doing what your doing, you have been successful in beating it when its trying its hardest to beat you.    

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by booba77, Nov 22, 2011
Sarabie-I am actually engaged-have been for years....lol.  I have been with my guy for about 14 years, and we bought a house 11 years ago, then 6 years ago we have a daughter, the light of our lives.  He is great, but he saw me have a seizure on trams, and said if I ever went back on them he would leave me.  He couldn't go through that again.  Plus if he left I would have to do the shared custody, and I cannot bear to be away from my girl for an hour, much less days at a time.  I may tell me parents, but it will have to be after they identify this body.  My parents now think it is my brother.  There are similarities between him and the body.  We are just waiting for an analysis of the latest dental records, which I'm not sure if they have been sent yet.  I hate waiting for other people to do things.  Anyway, I had an emotional breakdown this morning because my checking account was overdrawn.  My wonderful parents deposited cash into my account so I wouldn't have any overdraft fees.  My parents are so wonderful.  They don't deserve the hell me and my brother have given them.  I am hoping to find out if this is his body by tomorrow, but I doubt it will happen.  If it is him, it will make for a horrible THanksgiving, not that it is looking that great anyway.  I took 16 trams yesterday and am shooting for 15 today.  At least that is how many I packed when I came to work.  I have off the next 5 days in a row, which will be nice.  

Loopey-you may want to jump only 1/4 of a pill if 1/2 is too much for a jump.  You are at such a low dose now that I would think that would be okay.  You don't want to rush it.  You are doing so well. We are all very proud of you.

Yaya-I have felt like superwoman on these things.  Isn't that sad?  To have a false sense of power?  I have never taken a drug that made me feel that way before.  Tram really is the devil.  I've never had any experience with Lyrica.

Beenhere-besides yoga, what other excercise regimen do you recommend for beginners?  I know I need to excercise, but I am terribly out of shape.  That is what happens when you sit at a desk all day.  And then go home and do a few chores and go back to bed.  I have little extra time during the day with work and my daughter.  Is there a quick excercise I could do?  i was thinking about checking out the fitness channel to see if there is a show I could work along to.  I'm not big on gyms.  I want to sweat in the privacy of my own home....lol

I have heard a lot of people get ringing in their ears both as a side effect of tram and while coming off.  I never had that problem, but a lot of people have.

FOF-glad you are feeling better and back to the gym.  That is wonderful!  

I better get back to work.  I have mountains of filing to do today, but today is my Friday so I shouldn't complain.  Thanks again for all of your support.

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 22, 2011
Thank you Booba and BeenHereBefore for your feedback.  It does feel good to stop the tramadol. I'm looking at the mess my house, life and body are in because of neglect and I'm a little overwhelmed.  But I'm not doing the big up and down thing I did while taking the tramadol.  I would only take1-3 pills a day but I could feel my energy and emotions go up and then crash.

Lyrica is a nerve med that in definitely not addicting, but can have some uncomfortable side effects.

My shoulder is bothering me today.  Time to do the physical therapy exercises

Exercise does make me feel better.  I'm just nervous about hurting myself more.  I've tried yoga and it's challenging, but I like it.  Before I got hurt I exercised a lot.  Now I'm so very cautious.

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 22, 2011
Yoyo,

"But I'm sure it messed with my adrenal glands."

Withdrawal definitely hit my adrenals hard, and I know that because I've had adrenal problems in the past and I know how it  feels.  I've been using moderate doses of hydrocortisone to get me through it - now that a couple of months have passed, I am tapering down the hydrocortisone.

I found that part of my WD symptoms (i.e. feeling like crap) was actually due to low cortisol, caused by the stress of withdrawal.

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 22, 2011
Single Dad

Is Hydrocortisone something prescribed?  I had my hormone levels measured and it was recomended I might take a little DHEA.  That was before withdrawal.  

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by Sarabie, Nov 22, 2011
Booba - wow what a situation. Do you think your spouse would actually leave if he knew? Well mine did. I guess the principles won over the love. But we don't have kids and weren't together for as long as you guys. But you need to tell someone. Ican is right.

I had a long talk with a friend today. Haven't talked to her for years. She told me that she was addicted to tram ten years ago. It was great to hav a real talk with somebody who knows what it's all about. She went CT as well back then. She is now diagnosed with cancer but she refuses to take anything stronger than voltaren. She said that her pain is bad but no way in h... She will go through another CT or taper. It must have been really rough. Don't think I could be that strong.

I found a small bottle of tramdol in my suitcase today. Didn't even remember putting it there, but I guess it was an extra stash. I flushed them in the toilet. 30 small pieces of poison. I guess I'll find other hidden bottles when I move to Copenhagen. Quite scary actually. It must have been the fright of running out that made me hide them everywhere.

Hang on everyone !!!!

Love, Susie



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by fightorfight, Nov 22, 2011
Hey guys and gals,

Got a little bit of time here before I meet up with a buddy to go to the gym (Night shift makes you exercise at weird times ;),

Yoyo-  Congrats on solid days of progress,  Beenhere's advice in regards to possibly getting started with a trainer is a good idea.   There are plenty of people you wouldn't expect who take advantage of that opportunity (Some of the gyms in my neck of the woods even include it with membership) that way they can create a exercise regiment that will help you feel better.    Strength training is great, and has always been one of my favorite things to do,  I have to take it easy now because I did in fact mess my shoulder up something fierce, but with time I hope to get back to something approximating what I was doing.   Cardio, much as I didn't like it before, is very very important coming off Trams-- that is a primary trigger for your adrenal system, and natural production of norepinephrine and dopamine, something we lack after we go through the process of WD.   With exercise the motto of : "No Pain, No Gain" shouldn't apply to you--- small mile markers, made continually count as progress--and are better on your body/mind coming through.     Keep up the excellent work!

I had my follow up with my pDoc today, and feel comfortable with where I am.    He was surprised when I told him I didn't use the Clonidine, and also said I'd made a pretty substantial recovery.   Thats nice to hear from someone, sort of reinforces the idea that you're making progress.   Talking things over with him, I plan to stay at my current dose of Prozac (20mg).   I haven't had any bad side effects from it, nor has it been harsh on my mind and mood.  I'd say I have more energy, but that might actually be because my ADD medication is actually working again (As I explained before, Tram cancels out most stimulant effects).   He sent me home with a prescription to taper down the Klonopin for a week, which I think is a good idea for me-- I don't get much out of it, it doesn't make me tired.   Sleep has been coming on easier, especially on the days I'm able to get to the gym.    Its still short (4-6) hours, but I've always been that way.   Its just how I'm built.

I still certainly have moments of doubt and despair (sometimes hours of it), but if I keep myself busy or talk to someone for a little while something kicks over and I feel fine again.   Exercise at first was pretty tough, but now I'm getting into a routine again and it has become something I look forward to, I always feel great afterward, and the fact that my sleep is better the days I go makes it sort of like a double-prizer from a cracker jack box.   Having the energy to go, initially, was tough--- but starting slow and then increasing slow has gotten me to a point where I don't feel much fatigue during the day.  

So, thats where I'm at, about a month away from 2 months of max prescribed Tram.   Things have certainly played out differently for me this time, and I'm very thankful that they have.   Thanks to everyone who has shared the process with me, and continues to.   I'll keep posting and checking, and cheering on those who came before and will come after.   This is a great place to get the steam to start yourself up again-- and I'm grateful for everyone who has helped me here.

Take care everybody, be kind and gentle to yourselves-- and know that you can do it, wherever you may be in your own particular process.    

Now its off to that elliptical machine with a few new albums to listen to,
FoF

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by turkeytrotter, Nov 22, 2011
Ok, I think I just went through 20 pages to get here so I hope I am on current page....lets try this again!

Hi I am a transplant recipient of 20 years. I have back/hip pain; I started taking Aleve and that worked just fine, take one a day and I could function just fine without hurting. When I told my doc this, he told me to stop that day because it could hurt my kidneys. So, I told him he had to give me something that I could take because I couldn't live in pain and he put me on Ultram. I've been on it since 08; the weird thing is, it worked WONDERS the first year and little by little Its lost its effect.

I think it doesn't work 80% of the time but I still take it in hopes of not having pain. My dose is 50mg every 8 hrs. I've noticed the last two times I've ran out, I've gotten what I assumed was a bad cold and never thought about it. This time, I took my last dose Friday and woke up Saturday feeling ill again like I was coming down with a cold.

I've had chills, sweats, my body aches, I'm sneezing constantly...been doing this for now 4 days. Today I woke up feeling somewhat human so decided to TRY to run...barely ran a mile but felt good to be doing something after being confined to my bed.

Is what I'm going through a stupid cold or WD? I've been on Morphine and other strong pain meds before from surgeries and never had any type of WD that I remember. If I am WD, then how long will it be before I completely have my energy back and stop aching. Its confusing because I don't know if this aching is my normal thing or from this....

Thanks for any input!


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by Icandothis10, Nov 22, 2011
Ya'll - BeenHere is right....the gym can be very intimidating.  I HAVE to stay in shape, it's a requirement and even I stay clear of the gym.  For those who are petrified of all those scary machines with the big parts that look like arms sticking out, walk right by them to the treadmill.  Hop on and push the start button.  Start walking....then, add just a little incline (keeps your fanny up there ladies, gentlemen, you're on your own), keep walking and then walk a little faster.   Don't think you have to go into the gym with your water bottle and towel snapped around your neck looking like you can take on any machine.  I can't.  I go to the indoor track to do my runs and I really like Denise Austins 10 or 15 min workouts.  She's not obnoxious and she'll walk you through everything, right in the privacy of your own home.  All you need is a DVD player and a little room on the floor.  For beginners, get her beginners pilates.  It's simple and great for those who aren't gym rats.

I took her down a qtr pill.  I have parents coming for Turkey Day and I've been pretty busy trying to get ready to leave for Kuwait.  I'm doing pretty good and feel good.  I cannot believe the difference I see and feel in myself from when I was taking up to 30-35 of these nasty things a day.  I was on 6 for a little over 2 weeks though.  I just needed to actually take a break from my taper if that makes any sense at all.  I didn't take more, but I didn't worry about my doses, I just took them and did my normal thing.  

Suzi - good job..flush those things.  

I am really not one of those who complain to companies a lot or threaten to sue people etc.  However, I'm telling you all, I have HAD IT with these idiots calling me.....every....day.  They call twice and three times a day.  I've spoken politely, I've gotten snotty, I've even yelled at them but they still call.  They must like listening to me tell them they are horrible drug dealers and they're selling poison.  

Anyway.....night all!

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 23, 2011
Concerning Exercise:
I have been playing sports forever, played soccer in high school and college. Then I started weight training.  I was in some powerlifting competitions.  I won all three I was in.  I benched 465lbs in college weighing 210.  I was paper thin in high school, so I got into weights because I wanted to be able to fill out t-shirts :)  So since I have been doing it since 1996 its a part of who I am.  I am not like this big bodybuilder type by any means, nor do I like the meathead stereotype, I am a Network Engineer so those two dont fit.

When I first started, my only goal was to make it to the gym more than anyone else.  I wanted the people that worked there recognize me because I came so often.  Since I took such a long long break while being on the tram, my goals right now are weekly goals. Last week was just to go to the gym 4 days out of 7, thats it.  This week its the same.  I dont care how long I train, I dont care how much I lift.  Its all about consistency.

Getting a trainer is expensive, but it will force you to go and it will give you a workout and diet plan.  You dont want to go to the gym and just do every machine (free weights are better).  You usually focus on different muscle groups on different days.  Our you can join a Crossfit gym, they are class oriented and they schedule the workouts for all body types, ages, etc.  Very effective workouts, but the memberships are pricey.

When it comes to tram WDs, cardio is going to make you feel the best.  It is going to release all those endorphins and you will literally feel like you are sweating out all that toxic garbage.  Plus like FoF mentioned, it will help you sleep at night because it is wearing your body down and most importantly relieving stress.  When you are done you are going to feel great, you did something productive, you did something healthy, and you are working on your self-confidence.

DONT COMPARE YOURSELF TO OTHERS!!!!  Trust me, no one is judging you.  I dont judge anyone that is in the gym, I admire people that are working to become healthy.  I think that is what is intimidating.  You can feel self-conscience, but I swear to you, no one cares.  Everyone is just concentrating on themselves.  I am self conscience now because I know what I have looked like in the past.  Its natural, you wont be the only one.

The best thing about beginners in the gym, is you will notice improvements rapidly, especially in strength training.  Thats only going to motivate you to continue.  

The key is consistency, make small goals for yourself that are easily obtainable.  

Diet is very very very important.  I would say that your diet is going to account for 70% of your progress.  It really is that important.  

lcan mentioned the home workouts, and if you have the drive to workout at home then by all means go for it.  Me personally, I have to be in a gym setting, its a routine thing.  Otherwise I have a tendency to get side tracked with a phone call, or go check my email.    

Also, workout the same time everyday if possible.  Your body will start adjusting to that and around that time you will start to feel it.  I try to get my workouts done as early as possible, less likely to skip that way.  So I go over lunch.  The rule of thumb is to get the most important things done as early as you can.  Exercise is very important to me, it can control my self-confidence as much as tram can.  When I get it over at lunch, I dont have to sit there all day thinking..."uggh I still have to go to the gym tonight"

Also, if you cant get a trainer, then just go to the classes the gym offers. Many gyms offer yoga classes, zumba(?), pilates, body combat, etc and they are just included with your monthly membership fee.

And finally, now is the best time to start because you get a good 5-6 months before the warm weather hits.  

As you can see I am passionate about fitness and like to give advice to anyone that is interested.  It turned my life around.  I remember smoking weed while in college, and if it wasnt for getting serious about my body I would of kept on that path.  Plus it helped me control my alcohol intake, diet.  If only it kept me away from tram.  I guess that is why I intentionally only took it after my workouts.  However, I started skipping them because I wanted to just go home and pop pills more than go to the gym...  



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by legaljunky, Nov 23, 2011
Hi turkeytrotter-  My guess is you are going thru Tramadal withdrawal.  I had been taking 200mg Tramadol for about 2 years and I realized it was no longer managing my pain but it didn't occur to me to take more! When my Dr. took me off Tram. I got deathly sick. Some of the symptoms were like the flu or a cold. The rest of the symptoms were so bad I knew something was big time wrong and I got on the net and found this forum, went back on Tram and tapered off slowly.  I am lucky, I am off Tram and able to take Voltaren and it is handling my arthritis pain.

My problems began with chronic late stage Lyme disease, which caused arthritis, and the Dr. put me on Voltaren- I was on it for maybe 12 years with no need to up the dose and recently when she took me off it I had no withdrawal. Lyme also got to my brain and caused depression and other problems, such as trouble finding nouns.  She put me on a maintenance (low) dose of Lexapro and a maintenance dose of elavil- no need to increase the dose and I have been on them for 10 years or more. I'm also on Klonapin for sleep problems of lyme with no need to up the dose and no problems with sleep until Tramadevil came into my life-

About 2 1/2 years ago I started with Lupus Anticoagulent that put me on Coumadin and with it you can't take Voltaren.  So that's when I went on Tramadevil.  2  years later I no longer had Lupus Anticoagulent so off the Tram  and back on Voltaren.  Which brings me back to the beginning of my post!

Even tho I was only on 200mg Tram when I started tapering my withdrawal was excurciating,slow and long.  However, I never had seizures or brain zaps.  I read thru pages and pages of posts here till I figured out how I was gonna get me off Tram, everyone's journey is different here.  It took me  months, and even now I don't think I have my creativity completely back, (I'm an artist), there are short periods of time when I can't think things thru and I still talk in my sleep but the crazy dreams are gone.

I want to add that when I started with the arthritis and depression  my Lyme Dr. and my Alternative Med. Dr. both told me that depression and back pain are all part of depression.

At this point I am feeling very well and I wish that for you too.  Stay with us, we want to be there for you, post often and let us know how you are doing.  I feel so much love, empathy and support from all of my Tramadevil fighting buddies.

Now my turn!  I've been away and couldn't wait to get back on the forum.  I haven't read all the posts yet, you've all been very busy posting while I was gone!  

Strength and love to all of you!!   Can't wait to see what my tracker says!



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by booba77, Nov 23, 2011
Turkeytrotter (great name, btw)-yes what you are feeling is tram withdrawal, and all of your symptoms are perfectly normal.  I too went through the flu like symtoms.  The sneezing is just weird.  It is like once you start, you just can't stop.  Other common symptoms of tram withdrawal are: brain zaps, brain fog, diarrhea, sore muscles, restless leg syndrome, restless body syndrome for that matter, headaches, extreme fatigue, nausea, depression, anxiety, I could go on forever.  It is by far, the worst drug to  get off of. Since you were on such a low dose and never increased, your symptoms for the most part will not last much longer, which is great.  

I am just sitting around, waiting for "the call."  I find out today if this body they found is my brother's.  Actually I'm not sure if I will find out today, but I am hoping because they guy said he would try to get results with dental records before the holiday weekend.  My mom now thinks that it isn't him, but she could be denial.  I can't say I blame her.  I sure as hell hope we find out soon because it is killing me.

I am still rocking on with the taper.  I am only taking one less per day for now.  I didn't want to start too quick, especially with everything giong on in my life.  I'm not sure how much more stress I can take.  And my spouse is having some sort of extreme fatigue and dizziness which he thinks relates to his heart.  he had open heart surgery as a child, and needs another one.  He doesn't have health insurance, and of course does not qualify for any aid.  We had scheduled his surgery a while ago, and the hospital called asking for a $27,000.00 down payment.  I told them if we had that much money he would have health insurance.  No one will even insure him because of his previous heart surgery.  I tell you, if you do not have health insurance, and you are sick, you are totally screwed.  He already owes about $20,000 in medical bills which we pay on monthly.  That adds to the stress.

Well, I guess I have blabbed enough.  I will let you know when I hear about my brother.  I am so proud of all of you.  I am thankful for this place and what Emily has done for all of us.  Please be strong and brave and know that together, we can get through this.  I love you guys!!!

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 23, 2011
Hydrocortisone is by prescription only in the US, but it's easy to get from offshore pharmacies.  The definitive book on the subject is Safe Uses of Cortisol by Jefferies.  If you're really desperate to try it and can't get your hands on some, you can buy some hydrocortisone cream (over the counter) and rub a lot into your skin.  Some will get absorbed into your bloodstream, but the problem is that absorption varies so much from person to person.

The short answer is, if you have low cortisol, you can safely take 5 mg of hydrocortisone four times per day, which lessens the load on your adrenals, giving them a chance to heal.  However, if you do this, you have to wean yourself off over a couple of months, because your body will lessen its own production.

I am not a doctor, but this is what worked for me.

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by Sarabie, Nov 23, 2011
turkeytrotter there's no doubt you are going through w/d's. But it sounds like you are lucky like me and only go through the physical part of it. They won't last that long. You might feel tired and sick for a week or so, but then you should be back to normal. Guess it took me 2-3 weeks, but my dose was SO much larger than yours. Just keep your head up and it'll be fine. Anyways, tramadol is also bad for your kidneys, so I don't understand how your doctor could prescribe them to you in the first place :-(



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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 23, 2011
"I found that part of my WD symptoms (i.e. feeling like crap) was actually due to low cortisol, caused by the stress of withdrawal."

SingleDad - isnt it the opposite with Cortisol?  You do not want an excess of cortisol, that is what leads to bad side effects.


I always heard stress caused you to produce more cortisol, which is why people gained belly weight during these times.  I know you need some secreted into the blood stream to moderate your system, but if your adrenal

I looked it up to make sure and here is what I found:
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Higher and more prolonged levels of cortisol in the bloodstream (like those associated with chronic stress) have been shown to have negative effects, such as:

Impaired cognitive performance
Suppressed thyroid function
Blood sugar imbalances such as hyperglycemia
Decreased bone density
Decrease in muscle tissue
Higher blood pressure
Lowered immunity and inflammatory responses in the body, slowed wound healing, and other health consequences
Increased abdominal fat, which is associated with a greater amount of health problems than fat deposited in other areas of the body. Some of the health problems associated with increased stomach fat are heart attacks, strokes, the development of metabolic syndrome, higher levels of “bad” cholesterol (LDL) and lower levels of “good” cholesterol (HDL), which can lead to other health problems!
--------------------------------

So unless your adrenal glands dont produce cortisol because of a health issue, I would think you wouldnt want to add it to your body??  I have never had issues with adrenal glands so I am not an expert.


So I just got approved to go to 17 days of training in Dubai.  The training is supposed to cover 6 certification exams.  It should be interesting trying to study and memorize all this while tapering on tram....  The training is $9k so I have to make it worth it.  Luckily the company is paying for it, but I still have to show results.  I can barely remember what I did yesterday.

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by turkeytrotter, Nov 23, 2011
Hi Thanks for the answers, I was able to run two miles today, very slowly but it makes me feel better and know that I am ok. I am still aching but that could been from running today and yesterday, I don't know.

To think I asked my doc to give me something stronger when this stuff stopped working, glad he didn't listen. This is when the pain had gotten real bad and taking just the one Ultram wasn't doing anything.

I was going to hold off on my running till I read the previous post about that working out would help make me feel better sooner so I forced myself to do it.

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 23, 2011
BeenHereBefore,

Both low and high cortisol are bad, with low cortisol being an immediate problem and high cortisol being a long-term problem.  And both low and high cortisol are usually caused by stress.

Stress raises cortisol, because cortisol does things to help us handle stress.  However, long-term stress can cause adrenal fatigue, which is when the adrenals start conking out.  Then you end up with low cortisol.  For me, low cortisol makes me feel shaky, unable to handle stress, and fatigued.

Tram withdrawal was highly stressful for me, causing harm to my adrenals.  I recognized the symptoms, so I started supplementing physiological doses of hydrocortisone.  A "physiological" dose means a dose that is within the normal range of your body (e.g. 20 mg per day).  So, that type of dose does not make my cortisol high - instead, my pituitary down-regulates my endogenous production.  In other words, the hydrocortisone tablets take away some of the burden on the adrenal glands, giving them a break.

More info on the stress response:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_%28biology%29#General_adaptation_syndrome

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by AU2000, Nov 23, 2011
Hello fellow Addicts!

Now I'm not yelling this from the roof tops, but that's what we are.

Looking at 3 months of no Tramodol/PCP.  What a ride.  I haven't posted in a while so some might question the PCP part of my addiction.  Well, I'm very lucky to have some close friends in the medical industry.  They tested the Tramodol that I was getting off the web, and low & behold, most of the active chemical was PCP!  Why I thought I could trust a organized outfit online to sell me what they said it was, I'll never know.  They are making Millions off of us.  Anyway, here I am at three months.

Still have sleep issues.  I've found that if I don't sleep at night, I ruin the next night's sleep if I try to "nap" during the day.
Still have some aches & pains, but I can handle those.

I'm getting at least a dozen email or cell calls a day from the "outfit."  I've found that almost all of them online are the same organization.  I can't really change my email or cell for business reasons, but now it's almost funny.  I do have most of their numbers & email blocked, but I still see when they try to hit me.  I've told them not to call, I've told them I died, I've told them everything, but they don't care.  But I know the people in this group Do Care.
Thanks for your uplifting comments.  It really has helped.

Now onto Month 4, Thanksgiving, & hopefully not gaining anymore weight.

Au2000

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 23, 2011
Forgot to mention: regarding cortisol, I am not talking about Addison's disease or Cushing's syndrome, which are serious malfunctions of the adrenal system, but not due to stress per se.  I am talking about adrenal fatigue, where the adrenals become weakened due to major stress.

The bottom line: if you are going through tram withdrawal and have a history of adrenal fatigue, then you might want to consider supplementing with physiological doses of hydrocortisone during the withdrawal, because it may help you feel better.

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by loopey2u, Nov 23, 2011
You are all informing these companies that you no longer wish to be contacted, right?  If they companies keep calling you, ask for the person that's calling name, and tell them you're writing that down along with the date and time they called as you have already requested they no longer contact you.

If they persist, tell them you're filing a harassment complaint with the FCC because of the repeated calls.  Hopefully this should get them to stop.  

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by AU2000, Nov 23, 2011
Trust me.  OK don't I work in Law, you know.  ;-))

I've told them about filing a complaint, a law suit, a class action, they don't care.  Good luck getting to the head of this snake.  The best is to just say, "hang on a minute," & just put the phone down.  Let them hang on until they figure it out.  Of course, the blocked call method is the best.  Spam folder for email.  Just treat them as a joke.

I'd like to start a class action on them, but too busy with real clients.

feeling better every day.
We can do this.  Just take it easy.  Ride thru the ruff spots, & try to be around people.

off


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by Sarabie, Nov 23, 2011
Hmmm... Could it be that the tramadol bought online and the tramadol bought in highly secured and supervised Danish pharmacies isn't the same? I guess that could be the answer to why I don't get depressed? If there's pcp in the pills some of you get or getting off, it's bound to be worse than mine, right? Also I have been thinking... Could it be that the anti dep stuff isn't in ours? That it's just the opiat part? That's bad enough but I really wonder. I wish I knew someone in the med industry too so I could have it checked out. Well just a thought. Bedtime now.

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by EmilyPost, Nov 23, 2011
This thread is closed.

Please move to

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/327119/Tramadol--Ultram-Recovery-Room-Part-49

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by JULIUS23, Dec 01, 2011
DAY 45 CLEAN  ....HEY YOU GUYS IM JULIUS... LIKE MOST OF YILE IM ALSO TRYNA BEAT THIS DEVIL DRUG TRAMADOL N LET ME TELL YOU THEIR IS LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL... I CNT BEGAN TO DESCRIBE WHAT I HAVE BEEN GOING THRU FOR DA LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS. GOOD DAYS AND BAD DAYS.. I WAS TAKING BETWEEN 8 TO 9 PILLS A DAY FOR BOUT 3 YEARS FOR BAD STOMACH PAIN DAT WENT THRU OUT MY WHOLE BODYN OF COURSE MY DOCTOR PRESCRIBE ME WITH TRAMADOL 50MG... AT FIRST I WAS LIKE DIS MEDICINE IS DA Shhhhh LOL I LUVED IT AND DA FEELING OF  WELL BEING AND IT TOOK AWAY ALL THE PAIN AND AS TIME WENT BY MY BODY GREW A PHYSICALL DEPENDENCE ON IT AND I FOUND MYSELF IN A SITUATION DAT I HAD TO GET OUT OF SO ON 17,OCT I QUIT COLD TURKEY USING CLONIDINE AND ATIVAN FOR ANXIETY N IT WAS RUFF.... BUT AFTER ABOUT 3 WEEKS I STARTED TO NOTICE A BIG DIFFERENCE BUT THE ONLY THING THAT WAS KICKING MY BUT WAS THE HORRIFIC BRAIN ZAPS I WUD HAVE ALL DAY N IT IS VERY ANNOYING SYMPTOM!!! VERYYYY ANNOYING... I WAS FED UP WIT IT N SO MY DOCTOR PRESCRIBED ME WITH PROZAC FOR DEPRESSION WHICH I REALLY DIDNT HAVE ALOT OF BUT IT WAS THEIR N WITH JUS ONE PILL OF THE PROZAC IT TOOK AWAY ALLL THE BRAIN ZAPS FOR THE ENTIRE WEEK N I DIDNT HAVE TO TAKE ANOTHER PILL FOR THE NEXT 7 DAYS... SO PRETTY MUCH IM ONLY TAKING DA PROZAC ONCE A WEEK AND IM FINE WIT DAT... IM A GUY WHO STAYS N SHAPE N I TRY TO DO AS MUCH WORKING OUT AS POSSIBLE N IM TAKING A SUPER B-COMPLEX VITAMIN AS WELL...DAY 45 AINT BAD... AINT BAD AT ALL.. CNT WAIT TO CATCH UP WITH EMILY ONE DAY LOL

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by JULIUS23, Dec 01, 2011
DAY 45 CLEAN  ....HEY YOU GUYS IM JULIUS... LIKE MOST OF YILE IM ALSO TRYNA BEAT THIS DEVIL DRUG TRAMADOL N LET ME TELL YOU THEIR IS LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL... I CNT BEGAN TO DESCRIBE WHAT I HAVE BEEN GOING THRU FOR DA LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS. GOOD DAYS AND BAD DAYS.. I WAS TAKING BETWEEN 8 TO 9 PILLS A DAY FOR BOUT 3 YEARS FOR BAD STOMACH PAIN DAT WENT THRU OUT MY WHOLE BODYN OF COURSE MY DOCTOR PRESCRIBE ME WITH TRAMADOL 50MG... AT FIRST I WAS LIKE DIS MEDICINE IS DA Shhhhh LOL I LUVED IT AND DA FEELING OF  WELL BEING AND IT TOOK AWAY ALL THE PAIN AND AS TIME WENT BY MY BODY GREW A PHYSICALL DEPENDENCE ON IT AND I FOUND MYSELF IN A SITUATION DAT I HAD TO GET OUT OF SO ON 17,OCT I QUIT COLD TURKEY USING CLONIDINE AND ATIVAN FOR ANXIETY N IT WAS RUFF.... BUT AFTER ABOUT 3 WEEKS I STARTED TO NOTICE A BIG DIFFERENCE BUT THE ONLY THING THAT WAS KICKING MY BUT WAS THE HORRIFIC BRAIN ZAPS I WUD HAVE ALL DAY N IT IS VERY ANNOYING SYMPTOM!!! VERYYYY ANNOYING... I WAS FED UP WIT IT N SO MY DOCTOR PRESCRIBED ME WITH PROZAC FOR DEPRESSION WHICH I REALLY DIDNT HAVE ALOT OF BUT IT WAS THEIR N WITH JUS ONE PILL OF THE PROZAC IT TOOK AWAY ALLL THE BRAIN ZAPS FOR THE ENTIRE WEEK N I DIDNT HAVE TO TAKE ANOTHER PILL FOR THE NEXT 7 DAYS... SO PRETTY MUCH IM ONLY TAKING DA PROZAC ONCE A WEEK AND IM FINE WIT DAT... IM A GUY WHO STAYS N SHAPE N I TRY TO DO AS MUCH WORKING OUT AS POSSIBLE N IM TAKING A SUPER B-COMPLEX VITAMIN AS WELL...DAY 45 AINT BAD... AINT BAD AT ALL.. CNT WAIT TO CATCH UP WITH EMILY ONE DAY LOL

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by joshuawayneyork4, Jun 05, 2012
I haven't been on here before but I have been addicted to opiates most of my life.  I was a habitual heroin, oxy, hydromorphone, morphine, fentanyl, etc. user for what feels like forever.  I have been abstinent from opiates for six months now and I feel you're plight, trust me.  While heroin and the like may have more severe short term withdrawal symptoms than tramadol, I would MUCH rather kick any of them (except methadone.....) than  tramadol, it must be the SSRI withdrawals combined with the opiate withdrawals that do it, I don't know but it seems like after six months off 20 50mg tramadol a day I'm just barely coming out of the malaise of depression and I STILL have RLS almost every night ( I refuse to take benzo's due to my compulsiveness with any narcotic).  I just want anyone who is suffering to know.....put on those headphones and listen to some really good music (you wont be sleeping more than one hour at a time for a couple weeks), drink a **** ton of water, take as many vitamins as you can, take like 6 hot baths a day and hang in there.  Persevering through this withdrawal is like winning the Olympics, it seems impossible but it can be done, hang in there!  

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