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Tramadol & Ultram Recovery Room Part 49

Nov 23, 2011 - 292 comments
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tramadol

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ultram

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Recovery

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Hope

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Love

,

Healing



Happy Almost Thanksgiving Tramadol Warriors!

I sure hope you are all having a nice Holiday.  

Welcome to the room those who are new. Thank you so much for finding us.  

I know you can do this!


Love and Healing,
Emily




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Avatar_m_tn
by BeenHereBefore, Nov 24, 2011
PCP..... Hmmm, not sure.  I do know that it can vary.  But if you are getting it from the places with the overnight shipping, and it comes in what looks exactly like a real prescription, then I thinks its tram.  I have taken tram from a doctor before and it felt the same.  Now I have ordered from foreign companies, probably mainly india, and they do show up in all sorts of colors shapes.  Some are capsules, some are pills.  Some came in a ziplock bag with a label that said Tramadol 50mgs on it.  I did notice that one of them made my stomach upset, but after awhile its hard to tell, esp since I have a prescription for adderall and take that in the mornings too.

Isnt PCP pure speed?  I think the pills are legit, and technically I imagine a real doctor does approve the script from a pharmacy.  I dont know if its even illegal or not.  I know guys that buy viagra the same way...  The only way it will stop is if tram gets classified as a class 5(?) substance.  Basically in the same league with oxy, vicodin, etc.  I am surprised it has by now because I read posts from 2002 about people being hooked on this.

I took this pills in college called "renewtrient".  They were 100% legal, me and my friends ordered them from online vitamin websites but I even found it on the shelf at the supplement shop in my town.  The stuff basically, well not basically, it turned into GHB once it entered your system.  For socializing the stuff was amazing.  You literally lose all inhibitions without the sloppering, stumbling, intoxication feeling.  You felt like you just walked out of the gym, your body felt great, your mind felt great, the stuff would put tramadol to shame.  HOWEVER, if you took too much you would simply fall asleep.  I dont care where you were at, you would fall right asleep.  It was actually really scary.  I had a friend get carried away by an ambulance because someone thought he must have alcohol poisoning because he passed out right in the parking lot of a bar.  It didnt take long for the FDA to find out about that stuff and ban it.  Which was good for me because I am sure something bad would of happened to me.  

It just brings me to the point of Tramadol, people obviously abuse it.  I heard that methadone clinics even test for tramadol because opiate addicts use it if they run out of oxycotin or whatever they take.  Thats how I heard about it.  I had a "friend" who is addicted to oxycotin and he told me about tramadol.  He said it was real weak and he didnt get anything from it but it kept his withdrawals away.  But he said his GF like it.  So my brilliant self had to give it a shot.

In Bahrain, Kuwait, all of the middle east countries consider it a narcotic.  However, they are pretty strict about anything including alcohol.    

Avatar_m_tn
by BeenHereBefore, Nov 24, 2011
Today kinda *****.  First I am in Afghan on Thanksgiving, then this training I asked for is "too expensive" for my company so I have to pay half and sign a document that states I wont leave for a year or I pay it back (ha, yea right).  Then I get the notice about a shares I owned in a company in the defense industry.  General Dynamics are buying them which is usually great news, however the deal ***** and I lose about $9k in it.  I am ready for 2012 to start, this year has been a bust...

The only good news is I get out of here for about 18 days coming up next week.  

Is anyone on the HCL or time release tram?  Is there a way to taper that with the instant release kind?  I have both, so its kinda tricky to taper correctly.

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by AU2000, Nov 24, 2011
Happy Turkey Day!!

It cost about $250 for a real nice pill press.  So you could sinster any powder into the pill you want.  10-100 at a time.
No problem to engrave the proper heading on the pill.  I'm so crazy about telling about this because I fear people dying from unkown chemicals.  Remember, they don't care.  They just want to make millions & they are.

With that, I'll stop my rant.

Doubt me?  Buy a drug test strip at Walgreens, pee on it, & see if PCP shows up.  It's that easy.

au

Avatar_n_tn
by turkeytrotter, Nov 24, 2011
Day 6 of this nonsense...how much longer do these stupid hot flashes last? For the most part, I am fine...I even ran 3 miles earlier today but this has to end...I am tired of changing shirts...

Happy Thanksgiving :)

Avatar_m_tn
by loopey2u, Nov 24, 2011
  Is this the stuff BeenHere?  

https://hi-tech-online-store.com/renewtrient-180-capsules.html

"Promotes a feeling of well being"....I bet it does if it's what you said it is!  lol

Man am I tired.  The whole family was here and we had a great time and ate too much, but now I'm ready to pass out.  

Happy Thanksgiving, and for those of you who are going out in the wee hours to get some shopping done, GOOD LUCK!!


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by fightorfight, Nov 24, 2011
Evening guys and gals,

Hope everyone had an alright Thanksgiving.   I didn't get my grub on in any serious fashion--- winded up working instead.    I think that may have been the better route anyhow, family drama (not about me or tramadol) reigns supreme on Turkey Day.

I'd add that its not the first time I've heard some of the online places putting something else in pills.   I haven't bought any online for a long time, but back when I did, there were some state only sites that sold the 50mgs with the AN 627 label, which is the same you'd get at a walgreens or whatever.   Not sure about the iPharmacies, but I wouldn't be surprised--- lots of people got scammed I think buying modafinil, where it was only just a bunch of caffeine and ephedrine.  

Certain states have made it so that Tram is a controlled substance that requires a handwritten prescription, as opposed to an e-file or calling it in,  which would place it up against Schedule II substances like other narcotics, and stimulants.   Federally, its still an uncontrolled substance, it requires prescription since its not available OTC, but doctors can "phone it in" hence the US pharmacies online that still participate in the racket.   More and more states are investigating it on their own--- and I wouldn't be surprised that in a few more years you'd have most following suit.    Nucynta, which is just Tramadol's metabolite in its pure form, was classified schedule II immediately.    

Turkeytrotter--  You'll see improvement on those in the next 3-5 days, as your body starts to regulate blood pressure a bit better.   You'll still have weird occasions where temperatures will feel extreme (either too hot, or too cold) for a week or two more, but those will primarily be felt in your periphery, like hands and feet.   Someone made mention of ice cold hands,  you'll get those, followed by days where they're fine.   Everybody is a bit different as to what the last physical WD symptom is--- Emily's was GI issues, some other people would say that Light and Sound were still too uncomfortable,  I'm like you--- I'd just up and combust at moments notice, soaking through shirts without any reason.    I'm sure that has to do with which part of the Drug had the biggest effect on us-- the temperature thing is related to the NRI part of Tram.     It'll get better, I promise.  Keep up the excellent work.

Well I hope to get a good solid sleep in and get ready for Black Friday madness that is the Telecom industry.  

Take care everyone!
FOF

Avatar_n_tn
by turkeytrotter, Nov 25, 2011
Oh lovely, another week of this...let me jump for joy! I did not think this was possible, I only took 50mg of it twice day, thinking I am so glad doc didn't raise the dose like I asked! Hope you all have fun with black friday...I am staying home far away from it! :)

Avatar_m_tn
by BeenHereBefore, Nov 25, 2011
I dont trust the overseas companies at all.  You never know what your actually getting.  I would think they would put easily obtainable & cheap products in it.  Just like what FoF said about Modafinal, caffeine and ephredine are cheap and easily obtainable.  But the stuff from the US I normally trust.  In my profession I have to take drug tests and have been on tram while taking them, never had an issue.  But you never know, it could be 20mg of tram and 30mg of baking soda.  I notice a difference in quality in some of them.  I ordered ambien before and took two 10mg and didnt feel a thing... No way that was ambien.

Designer drugs which are not as common are going to be fakes.  Valium, tramadol, generic xanax, those are common everywhere and usually are legit.  I remember there was a big outbreak of Iraqis addicted to valium because of the war and how easy it was to get.  We had an iraqi that worked for us get us literally 100s for like $80.

I dont know what it is but I almost hate having the day off here.  There is nothing to do but think.  My taper gets screwed up because I sleep in...  I need to be more disciplined on these days.  In less than a week I will be in Dubai enjoying the sun for a few days before 17 days of training.  It will be a nice nice break.



Avatar_n_tn
by turkeytrotter, Nov 25, 2011
Well after a good full nights sleep the other night, last night was miserable. I had the freakiest dream, I jumped up sweating and took me a minute to realize I was ok. I can deal with anything but the sweating has got to stop...like now. I NEVER want to see that little demonic pill again. Those of you who took larger doses of this stuff and WD'd, I don't know how you put up with this.

Avatar_n_tn
by tramsick, Nov 25, 2011
I hear you turkeytrotter, had the same w/d's in the beginning.  And, i'm with you, I never, ever want to see the demonic pill again.  But then again, it's been a long friggin road for me.  Tramadol really screwed me up.  I know some people don't consider me sick anymore, I'm not the same.  I almost want to quit posting here as not to scare anyone on the long term issues tramadol can give.  By no means, I hope and pray, no one will suffer as long as I have.

So, FOF, I tried the taper, 3 days in, massive panic attack again. I rolled myself up into a ball and cried and cried.  The panic isn't gone, and I feel I have no choice but to get on an antidepressant.  I can't be and don't want to be on Klonopin forever, and to be honest, it's starting to not work as well, I'm becoming tolerant.  So, I started the Lexapro last night and so far I'm managing panicky moments throughtout the day, back to my origianl dose of Klonopin.  If the Lexapro does what my doc says it will do, I'll wean Klonopin later.  I was so wanting to klonopin weaing to work. I know I've only been on Klons for a month, but for a month before that I took valium once/day.  Maybe that's why I can't kick it. I felt defeat.

I'm also planning to see my GP and ask about the adrenal gland issue.  I swear my problem still doesn't feel like GAD.  I feel like something is physically out of whack.  I've been through a lot of tests though, and all are coming up normal except my thyroid is not producing enough hormone.  I believe it's hypothyroidism.  My GP doesn't want to treat me yet tho cuz it's not too bad yet and the treatment could worsen the anxiety.

Thus, continues my journey on the tramadol after effects.  I'm tired of it.  I know everyone must be tired of hearing it, because so many of you are so worse off than me, but it kills me.  The anxiety feels like I'm having a heart attack, like I'm completely losing it, unable to function. I'm so down, so disappointed, and tired.  I just don't know what else to say.

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by Sarabie, Nov 25, 2011
Tramsick - I wish I could give you a big hug. You are in my thoughts!!!! And please don't stop your posting. We need you.

Love Susie

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by turkeytrotter, Nov 25, 2011
Tramsick - I am so sorry you're still going through that misery! :(

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by turkeytrotter, Nov 25, 2011
Finally, I feel like I am at a normal temp...don't feel freezing or hot...not sure if that will last but thank God for now. I thought I was going to lose it earlier....12am here so guess that means 7 days ....has it been a week already?

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by fightorfight, Nov 26, 2011
Tramsick,

Awh, damn.  Damn.   Alright hun you can still manage this, though I suppose there is something going on, like you say, thats causing this to be something other than lingering Tram WD.   Valium and Klonopin are both long half life drugs,  with Valium being longer, then Klonopin being second fiddle at least in the prescriptive area.   As far as those drugs are concerned, a 60 day stint with them would produce Anxiety coming off them--- I didn't realize about the Valium, and I apologize if I had been giving you the wrong advice.    The Lexapro, or any other SSRI should give you the room to get away from it, as your reactive chemistry will get blunted a bit with that sort of drug.    I'm sorry that its taken such a toll on you, but it'll get better--  I'm with you on this,  I think 100 days out, that you are dealing with something entirely different.    I'm sorry that you're waging a war on multiple fronts, and anything I can try and help with--- even just someone to listen to, please message me on here and let me know whats going on.  We're all here for you regardless of circumstance.    Message me on here---- but how fast did you go down in dose on the Klonopin?  Also, is the anxiety primarily mental or heavily somatic (gut problems, flop sweat, shakes, flushed skin)?   I want to talk with you about this one on one--- as there might be other avenues to try.     Hold out hope Tramsick.   And keep talking with us all.

Turkeytrotter-  Good that you're feeling a bit better temp wise.    You can make a tracker on here that gives you a way to track how many days its been--- its a good way to see progression.    

Keep Fighting guys, whatever it takes.  
FOF  



Avatar_m_tn
by BeenHereBefore, Nov 26, 2011
Tramsick - I have been taking lexapro on and off for at least 5-6 years.  You will notice the difference in 2-3 weeks, those meds dont kick in overnight.  It shouldnt change your personality or anything.  Its hard to explain, but it just helps you "not freak out" by regulating the chemistry in your brain.  You arent going to just feel happy in 2-3 weeks unless its a placebo effect.  You will just notice that your body doesnt get as worked up over issues like before.  I have had certain minor issues (in hindsight) that completely took over my mind to a point where I felt physically ill.  This could go on for weeks at a time.  The lexapro helps during those times, just to mellow myself out.  I personally didnt really gain weight or get lazy from it.  My dosage started out at 10mg, and I weighed about 210lbs. Its up to 20mg now but I honestly probably only take it 3-4 times a week because I dont like taking it with my tram dosage, so then I just forget.

When you get off tram you feel empty, its hard to figure out what to do with yourself.  You are unmotivated and unhappy, and just tired of feeling like that.  A lot of that is because your brain hasnt adapted and is not producing the happy natural chemicals.  Another reason, for so long you used this medicine and it controlled the day for you.  You relied on it for everything, the energy to get the grocery shopping done, the anti-depressant part to get over a bad day...  Its real hard to just forget about all that time and turn back into yourself again.  BUT, would you rather be back on the tramadol, and know that you are going to have to face this all over again?  Eventually you have stop, it will find a way to ruin you.  

I imagine a lot of what you are dealing with is just internal struggles.  You dont know if its because of tramadol or not, but you just cant get your mind to move forward.  I dont think thats anything rare, I was off for 3 weeks and I felt hollow, like I was just going through the motions everyday but always in the back of my mind was tramadol.  Thats when maybe therapy can help.  I know a lot of people dont want to ever go to any type of substance abuse therapy because of the stereotypes surrounding it....but you do what you have to do to get better.  

Avatar_n_tn
by tramsick, Nov 26, 2011
Geez all, I'm sorry, was having an incredible low moment yesterday.  Thank you Sara, Beentherebefore, and FOF.  You are all my lifeline. I didn't mean to dump on you and FOF, it's not your resposibility to be giving me advice. I wanted to do the weaning from the Klons and for it to work, more than you did.  I know I lean on you a lot, but I don't want to burden you or anyone with my problems. I'm grateful for your advice and it's good advice. I'm not giving up, just feel defeated with the w/d from tram, I really do.

FOF, I halved my dose of Klons for three days, I believe .25 twice/day instead of .5.  On day three, panic struck.  It scares me that I'll always be this way.  I start to feel hot, then somewhat faint, then my heart goes a million miles an hour and I feel Iike I'm going to die, even though I know I won't.  I'm not worried about anything or thinking of anything when it happens.  I could be in the middle of my family, in the middle of dinner, and BOOM.  I've been in the middle of Walmart shopping, and it happens, with my 2 yr. old son.  I've been on the playground, in church, anywhere, and it has happened.  

The Klons made it significantly better in the beginning, but is not the solution.  Beentherebefore, I know what you mean about internal struggles.  I want so badly for this to be something minorly physically wrong, so I can fix it immediately.  I want to take that magic medicine that heals whatever tram did to me.  I think I somehow have to face the possible reality that the tram really did mess up my brrain chemistry badly and the antidepressant is the way to go.  Right now, I have no other choice but to try.  I just hate the way it makes me feel, but it's not my first rodeo on these things.  I'll get through it.

Again, I'm sorry.  I really mean to stay positive and I want to be here for all of you too.  I'm just so damn sick of dealing with my own self.  I love you all, and thank you for being there, I really mean it.

Avatar_n_tn
by tramsick, Nov 26, 2011
Oh and turkeytrotter, congratulations on getting through your first week, I know how hard it's been.  It will get better, and thank you for your support.  Keep posting on your progress and stay strong!

Avatar_f_tn
by legaljunky, Nov 26, 2011
Tramsick and Turkeytrotter-  I read your posts last night and my heart goes out to you but I was too tired to try to post. Well, Beenherebefore has said it all.  It's hell we got thru, and when you're going thru hell, just keep going. You,ll get there,  Fight hard, it's so worth it. At this point I can say I had a very easy time of it, compared to so many others, but in the beginning it was unbearable and I had no idea how long it would last.  From my days in Alanon (for families of alcoholics)  I remembered to live 1 day at a time, not to think any farther ahead.  When I'm at my worst, I forget that it won't be that way forever.

I'm past all that, and I'm pretty much normal again,  except for PAWS at 30 and 60 days off Tram.   During PAWS I can't think straight, can't plan anything and I'm  tired.  I had to pack for a 5 day trip to FL (from NJ) during PAWS and I just couldn't figure out which clothes made sense and which tops went with which pants. When I got there PAWS was over and I didn't have much I could wear, but I managed!  

90 day PAWS will hit me around Christmas when the whole family will be at our house.  Everybody brings food.  I'm getting everything done ahead so if I'm a vegetable again, everyone else can do the thinking when they get here!

I have been on a maintenance dose of Lexapro and a maintenance dose of Elavil for 10 years or more and  will forever and  don't have a problem with it.  Lyme disease got to my brain and caused permanent damage and Lexapro and Elavil give me a normal life with no need to up the dose.  Lyme disease has also left me with sleep problems and I have been on a low dose of Clonapin at bed time with no need to increase that dose either.  I never wanted to be on meds like I am, but quality of life is more important to me and this is how I can have it.  It is all carefully monitored by my Lyme disease Dr., I have blood tests regularly.  I say, do what you have to do.

Get thru Tramadol WD however you can.  I did it by reading pages and pages of posts till I figured  out for myself how I wanted to do it,  It was tough but I am so grateful to Emily and all the Tram warriors who are so supportive and got me where I am today. I'm done with Tramadevil and my life is great!

Love, strength and perseverance, Tram warriors!

Those of you who haven't posted in a while- I'm thinking of you and sending love!


Avatar_n_tn
by turkeytrotter, Nov 26, 2011
Tramsick - thanks, honestly for 4 days before reading all this, I assumed I just had a cold. Now I am wondering if that was all I had...my nephew (lives in same house) is now sick, same symptoms as me. I didn't stop taking it on my own, I ran out and haven't been able to get any. I would be interested to see if taking one would make this stop. That being said, I took a Motrim last week and it worked better than the tram at helping my pain.

I haven't really been in horrid pain in a few months. Except for being a little sore from running, I have been ok. I read people saying tram made them high and gave them energy. It never did any of that for me; if anything when I first started taking it, I would have to go to sleep from it.

Avatar_f_tn
by blessdnblind, Nov 26, 2011
I have been addicted to Tramadol since April 2006.I started out with ultracet @ 1 pill at night for sleep. I noticed that they also helped with my depression so soon i was taking one at night and one before breakfast, fast foward to October 2008 and i was up to 7 at a time, two times a day. I found out i was pregnant and THANK GOD that my morning sickness made me want NOTHING to do with the pills.I had a beautiful healthy  baby girl in June 2009! Well, Dr prescribed Vicodin for aftercare. Those did  nothing for me so i was okay with taking them for pain. Then one afternoon, i had a migraine from HEC and i remembered that i still had a full bottle of Tramadol in the cabinet, well, i told myself that i would take ONE for my headache (they helped take away pain W/OUT being in a fog like VICodin), and here i sit, 2years later trying to quit a 6-7 50mg ultam a day habit. I have been tapering down for a few weeks but since my Dr will not give me more than 15 pills at a time, and she doesnt think im going thru w/d's, she is just doing it because i insisted. Well, i WANT to quit!!! For the first time in a long time, im NOT WORRIED  about getting more pills and im NOT trying to make excuses for not dealing with the w/d's, im READY!!! But, im SCARED!!! Today is just day one and i know the worst is yet to come, but i still WANT it!!! I really need some support from someone who understands. My husband is supportive but doesnt understand the severity of w/d's so i need someone from common ground. Good Luck and May God be with each and every one of us!!

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by fightorfight, Nov 27, 2011
Blessdnblind-  Keep posting here, as you get through your days.   Sounds like you've been tapering, which is good--- As far as severity, it depends on a lot of factors-- dose (how much) has some to deal with it, time on it is another big factor.   The acute stuff is done between a week to ten days, though some people are done with it in 5 or 13,  thats a variable I can't really count for, but know that feeling better-- physically at least, comes quickly.   Thats good news,  getting past the first really hard days does a lot for you.   Coming through it, most people, in their own way wage nothing short of Total War on Tramadol---- and its what needs done.   Things will get better fast, but then slow down a bit afterward, where you have lingering problems.    Its going to be alright, one moment at a time for right now.

Tramsick-- Thanks.   I just hate to think that you're still going through such a rough patch this far out, but from what you said as to how you started tapering the Klons, thats exactly what it sounds like.   With its half life, thats right where you'd notice.    Lets see how this plays out with the Lexapro.   Keep trying to get to the gym when you can--- and maybe in a few days you might see a little light as far as things all around are considered.  
Keep on marching, and I'll stick with you on it, we all will.   We all want you to get better, hence the posts :).  

I'm a month off now, and I'm glad to be here, surrounded by you folks.   Keep up the wonderful work of being yourselves.    


Avatar_m_tn
by TRAMMAN999, Nov 27, 2011
I gave up on my tracker a couple of months ago.
I have been on and off the Tram.
So disgusted with myself I just coudn't be bothered.
I am about to go cold turkey (again & again !!) from a very high dose.
I got to about 12 days sober But  .....  relapsed  ------     Why   ???  Because I am an " addict "
Hopefully crack it this time. Been through it so many times, but I am still scared !

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by booba77, Nov 27, 2011
Tramman-we are so similar it scares me. I am trying to taper but failing miserably, and will probably have to go cold turkey. Have you tried going in an antidepressant? I'm going the wellbutrin helps when I jump off. These days are so long waiting to find out about my brother  I have pretty much slept my way through Thanksgiving break. I am supposed to find out Tuesday if it's his body. My parents are doing so well, but I fear for their reaction if this is him. It has been 3 months of pure hell and total stress. I just want ti feel okay again. Even and especially on the tram, i'm so depressed. Could just be my crummy situation though. I bettet get busy. Gotta find a cute fluffy kitten. that is all my daughter wants for christmas. Happy Sunday guys  keep fighting the good fight

Avatar_m_tn
by BeenHereBefore, Nov 27, 2011
blessnblind - the good thing is that your doctor is moderating your use.  I have said it before, I think tramadol is so difficult to stay off of because its too easily available.  I have always loved the opiate feeling, but I never went out to try to score oxy's or percs on the street, I just didnt even think about it because it wasnt obtainable.  Tramadol is a different story, at least for now.  Its so hard to say no when you can have a bottle overnight.  

I was like you, I started taking them after work for pleasure.  It was when I started taking them during the day that it got me really hooked.  I took them during the day because of depression that I caused in my life because of the pills.  You just try to keep feeding that high all day long even though its impossible too.  Next thing you know your taking 20-30 pills a day, you dont even get a high, but now you have to think about how to get off this crap everyday, every hour.  Is next week good?  No, I have this party to attend....I cant start the following weekend because I need to paint the bedroom....on and on and on it goes.

I am trying to taper this time, its going ok but I know how long of a road its going to be.  I am really trying to find other things to occupy my time, finding things that make me feel better about myself, that is what gives me the strength and positivity to taper.  My outlet is the gym, and working on some career goals.

This forum is great, but I really wish I was somewhere that I could talk to someone about it.  Right now I dont have that luxury but hopefully soon I will.  NA meetings or just a professional in substance abuse.  I would love to have someone to take my pills and only give me enough to taper.

TRAMMAN999 - yea you are an "addict" we all are.  Its nothing to be ashamed about. A lot of people are addicts, just in different ways.  If you keep failing and relapsing, maybe you should try a different means this time.  Do you talk to anyone about it?    

Avatar_m_tn
by BeenHereBefore, Nov 27, 2011
booba77 - your story is a tough one, I couldnt imagine waiting around like that to find out if my sibling is dead or not.  Honestly, I wouldnt get to down on yourself if the tapering isnt working while going through something like that.  It might not be the best time to go CT either.  You are using the tram to get rid of depression, thats when its the hardest to get off.  I think you need to figure out a way to deal with your depression while you taper.  I know you keep this a secret because of what your parents are already going through, but what happens if it is your brother they found?  Its not going to make it any easier for you to tell them at that point.  Find some NA meetings, you need to get some support somehow.  

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by ImDONENoMore, Nov 27, 2011
Hi everyone,

It's been a very long time since I've posted here - I've been hanging around the substance abuse forum since leaving this thread.

I just wanted to offer hope to all of you just beginning this journey that life gets a hell of a lot better once you put down this poison.  I know it's messing with your head right now, telling you that you can't live without it.  BUt I promise you that is the drug talking.  I PROMISE you that.

I am almost 500 days clean from the tramapoison and have never looked back.  It took a long time for me to get here - months in fact, before I slowly started to turn that corner.  I actually quit cold turkey from 25 pills a day and yes, it was awful.  Had basically all of the symptoms talked about here.  But the withdrawal will END.  No more waking up nervous until I took that first pill, no more planning vacations around how many pills I had or not attending family functions because I didn't have the pills.  I am finally free from the horrors of tramadol.  And the journey was WORTH it.  Every pain, every fear, every doubt slowly disappeared with time.

NO my life's stresses or problems did not magically disappear.  In fact, in some ways I am dealing with additional issues because of the time Iost on this drug.  Overspending - not paying attention to those important bills, basically isolating myself in my bedroom convinced that everything would work itself out (lie) - because until you have a clear head - EVERYTHING will feel overwhelming and my hope was lost.  But that hope returned - and has been the most valuable gift I've received yet.  Having hope again for my future has literally changed my life.

I just wanted to say I know many of you are trying to taper.  That was something I knew I could never do - at least not on my own.  I could no longer trust myself to wean off - if I had them I TOOK them.  Didn't give a second thought to what I would do tomorrow UNTIL tomorrow came and panic set in.  How would I get more?  What would I tell my Dr.?  What lie could I come up with to justify how many I was taking - an absolutly HORRIBLE way to live your life.  So I just wanted to say if you do decide to continue to try the taper - find someone to help you with that.  It's just too damn easy to give up and I knew long ago I could no longer trust myself to do that.  And that I had to become accountable to someone - ANYONE as long as I trusted them.  And that was a lifesaver for me.  My husband knew I had a problem - probably didn't realize until I truly confessed to him how bad off I was - but telling him was a huge step in my recovery.  And telling my Dr.'s was the other huge step.

So please - reach out to someone you love and trust and ask for help.  Giving up this drug all by yourself is nearly impossible.  Give yourself a fighting chance to finally break free of the hell this drug puts us in.  And it will be the first step to a life FREE of those chains attached to that damn prescription bottle.  It was a long journey but one WELL worth taking.  You can do this - you just have to have a good plan in place, a strong support system and run on "blind faith" for a while.  TIME is going to be your best friend for months to come so welcome that best friend with open arms.

Continued success to all of you.  I will keep you all in my thoughts and prayers.  If I can do this, so can you.  Life on tramadol is NO life at all.  I am finally FREE - and YOU can be too.   :)

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by Sarabie, Nov 27, 2011
ImDoneNoMore - your story could have been written by me. Same deal. 24 pills a day - CT. Isolated in the bedroom. Always worrying about what to tell the doctor etc. Now, free and released even though I too have to deal with loads of unsolved issues from my days in the dark. But with a clear head, things are clearing up as well.

I watched Harry Potter yesterday and got to think J.K. Rowling must have had Tram W/D's when she created those Dementors - they suck all happiness out of you and - unfortunately we can't point our wands and shout Expecto Patronum and make it go it away.

I'm thinking of all of you, fighting with ct and taper. Wishing you all the best of luck!!!

Love Susie

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by legaljunky, Nov 27, 2011
booba77- Yours is a really tough battle- Tramadevil and the unknown situation of your brother.   My heart goes out to you.

I'm exhausted after too much family and too much Thanksgiving and very thankful not to be on Tramadol.  I wonder if I'm this tired this far out from Tram or just plain tired.  I know I feel better than those of you tapering or dealing with CT WD and I wish you strength to get thru it.  

When I was doing my slow taper and had  stressful period to get thru, I stayed at the same level till I got past the ordeal (Thanksgiving would have been an ordeal) and then continued to taper.  We do what we have to do!  I couldn't have done it  without Emily and all of you on this forum leading the way fr me.

Stay strong, fight hard and post!  I need you!


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by blessdnblind, Nov 27, 2011
Thanks SO MUCH for all of your replies!! It means, I HAVE SUPPORT!!! Booba, I pray for your strentgh, patience, and guidance during this DOUBLE TRYING time. i cant imagine watiting to hear if my sister is still alive. Well, actually, when i lost my sister last September to cancer, the last few days of her life were actually a lot of WAITING AND WAITING, we knew she was dying but not knowing was awful so yes, in a small way, i can sympathize. HUGS!!!! Well, i was sitting here, day 2 of no tramadol, my heart started racing and i felt like i was going to pass out, i got so scared being as though i was by myself(hubby took my 2yearold out of the house so i could rest), i called my husband and he brought me two tramadols from HIS(my taper stash) stash. He asked me to continue with the taper instead of quitting cold turkey.It took me 45 minutes to decide what i wanted to do. I took ONE and im going to continue my taper. My husband is scared of me having a seizure and to be honest with you,i am too. Im not sure if what i just did was the right thing or not. All i know, is i want to be well. I have been successful at tapering, but, me, being impatient, i just wanted to get it all done with at once. siggh...anyone?

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by ImDONENoMore, Nov 27, 2011
I've yet to read about anyone experiencing a seizure AFTER they quit cold turkey - it was only when you were on a high dose (like me) did I read about a seizure  Just something to think about - I think you're only prolonging the inevitable.....(I'll get some slack for that and I'm okay with that).

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by turkeytrotter, Nov 27, 2011
I don't know if its lack of tram or the nasty darkness outside but today, I did not feel like doing anything. I've spent most of the day sleeping. I did finally talk myself into running and felt better after. I don't think I am craving tram like I hear but that I'd just take it because I feared if I did not, then I'd spend the day in pain.

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by legaljunky, Nov 27, 2011
blessdnblind-I was on 200mg daily and I could never have gone CT.  A slow taper, 1/4 pill a week is the best I could do.  Hang on!  You can do this!  Find the best way for you, we're all different!

Strength, love and hope for all of us!

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by fightorfight, Nov 27, 2011
Turkeytrotter-  I had and have days like that.   First go round, and this one too--- I went for long long drives, or walks when I felt up to it, with some music and just let it all go.   Something I continue to do, when I go to the gym now-- it also turns into a session with me and my music.   When I'm feeling down, thats something I can reliably count on to get me out of that mindset.   Now mind you, it doesn't always make me happy per se, sometimes, I just get downright angry.   Anger is alright for me--- I can use that.   Anger against Tramadol, for sure, but just everything that may be weighing you down.    Its not a catch all--- but using Time has helped me quite a bit, both the first, and now my last time with Tramadol.  

Hope everyone is doing alright today.   Had a nice day off myself, got some excellent Thai food with some friends and then watched the Steelers play.   Not a bad Slice of a Weekend.  

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by turkeytrotter, Nov 27, 2011
Thanks FOF, I feel fine now...this has felt like the flu that wont die....at least the sweating has stopped for most part. I think it's just this nasty rain...I'm good.

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 28, 2011
I'm really behind in reading the posts.

Thanks FOF for the exercise info.  

The anxiety us pretty infrequent.  But I do want to crawl under the covers at times.  I'm still having really low energy.  And I don't want to do anything.  I have all the symptoms of major depression.  I probably should get on anti-depressants, but I'm really pill shy right now.

I'm on day 17 and not thinking much about popping a Tram.  But I do miss that energy push.  I had to take a nap in my car between events on Thanksgiving.  And I cried a lot that day.

But I'm doing as much cardio as this old(er) body can do and that gives me a perk.  Shoulder and neck really bothering me.

But I'm so happy I'm not craving the Tram.  

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by TRAMMAN999, Nov 28, 2011
Thank you Booba & BeenHereBefore for your thoughts and support. As I said I can't taper  (because I am an " Addict " ) -I just don't have what it takes. So, the only way is C/T. My wife had booked a short break in Spain  -  I've had to tell her, yet again that I am in bad shape  -  (Volcanic erruptions !!) Anyway going ahead with break, but I have explained that I will be out of it. She will be supportive in that she will feed me, but I can't expect any understanding or sympathy  -  and I don't blame her.
It's going to be tough !
The irony is, that I get my supplies from Spain because one can but 60 Tram for 6 Euros. I used to bring home 10 boxes !! Not this time   ! Will post and let people know the outcome. (It could be her walking out on me - and I wouldn't blame her  -  she has been so tolererant  -  stretched the vows of marriage to the limit !!). She expects that after C/T I will be " better " , but I know I will go into "shut down" depression. That initself puts a constant strain on a relationship.
Well here goes     .....................................................  >

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Nov 28, 2011
What are PAWS that people write about?

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by MrKenny, Nov 28, 2011
Tram free 102 days.........♥
I don't feel any residual effects of the Tramadol anymore.
No depression; no sweats, no gloomy hangover.
No strange dreams or jumpy cramping muscles....
I think all noticeable effects are gone, gone, gone!

I wish & hope the same for all of you; I want to let you know there is total normalcy after the withdrawal.
Have a beautiful day Fighters!☺

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by Sarabie, Nov 28, 2011
Yoyoyo - PAWS means Post Acute Withdrawel Symptoms (or syndrome). Everyone who have been addicted to something will experience paws. If you google you can read about it. Most likely they'll turn up when you have been clean for 30,60,90 and 120 days. You'll get light w/d's again for a couple of days.

Blessnblind - welcome - you are definately in the right spot!!!

Congrats MrKenny !! Great job.

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by haves, Nov 28, 2011
were do I begin - 3 weeks on tram - usage anywere from 100 to 200. I can't beleive that I got to the point. I detoxed from tram 3 years ago and it was hell for about 10 days. Now this is 28 hours since my last use. My insides are shaking - cold and hot flashes. I thought about taper - still have a bunch but I want to be done with it. Finals at college are coming in less than two weeks.
I have a wonderful wife who I haven't been able tell -even though I know she knows. We have been here before.  I am in AA / NA and instead of telling someone I've kept it to myself. Not looking forward to the axienty and that look on my wife's face - How could you do this again. I'm at the point were I either say something to someone or just keep going maybe taper. but wait taper plans don't work that could for addicts.  Sorry for the rambling. Tears are coming - God help me please

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 28, 2011
haves,

Can you clarify your dosage - do you mean 100 to 200 milligrams per day, or 100 to 200 pill per day?  Each pill is typically 50 mgs.

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by haves, Nov 28, 2011
2 to 4 50mg a day

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by tramsick, Nov 28, 2011
Hi everyone!  Turkeytrotter, I'm glad you're feeling better.  I hope that continues for you.  I'm glad you're over the sweats, those were the worst.  I used to have to get up and change my shirt in the middle of the night.  I'm glad you're excercising.  I remember, especially in the beginning, just being in the fresh air was helpful, walking or running.

Yoyo, I know all about being pill shy.  I've come to realize that we have to do what we have to do in recovery, so if you end up needing an antidepressant, like I have, don't feel bad about it.

haves, I'm sorry you're here again.  Keep posting and we will get you through it. There is no judgement here, only support. You're three weeks out at least, and if you can do a taper, I've heard it's best.  Listen to the tapering experts on this board, they will help you.  I went CT, but it was because tram was making me physically ill.  You can do this, you've done it before.  I know, it's such a devil drug.  It is officially a controlled substance in my state.

McKenney and Imdonenomore, thanks for posting.  I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and you're making it more clear for me.  It's been a long battle for me with complications of panic attacks.  I started an antidepressant and so far I'm pleased to report that I feel good.  I'm getting better every day, even if it's baby steps.  I'm learning to take one day at a time, which was so frustrating for me, but so very important.  I'm very impatient at times and expected always to be better immediately. Tram doesn't let go of some of us as quickly as it does others.  PAWS lurks around a lot longer than I could've ever imagined.

I'm back at the gym, full force, as of today, and it felt terrific.  Those natural endorphins are what I need and I missed my friends there.  Peace and love to all of you!  Keep posting.

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by turkeytrotter, Nov 28, 2011
Tramsick, they're not gone...thought/hoped they were but no. I am glad you are in the gym...I need my running with or without tram.

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by blessdnblind, Nov 28, 2011
Haves,  you and I have the same story, i wanted to just be done with it all at once! I was at 2 days off tram yesterday from a taper from 6 50mg a day to 3 50mg a day. I am so worried about seizures,  i ended up taking ONE yesterday at about 4PM. I know someone commented that i was just prolonging the inevitable but critics or no critics im doing what i think is best. I have not had any today, im thinking im gonna try to get through a couple days, take ONE, get through a couple more days, see if i can just stretch a little bit longer each day. I have been pretty successful at tapering, so im not scared but i am IMPATIENT, VERY VERY IMPATIENT. I am so ready for this to just be over!! For the sake of my daughter and my husband. I am also taking a b complex, a mutlivitamin, and trying a little exercise in between homework, housework and motherhood. I keep praying for all of our success!! God Bless us all!!

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by legaljunky, Nov 28, 2011
Welcome haves- Like you I began my battle to get off Tramadevil at 200mg a day and I could never have kept it a secret.  In 1 week I went down to 100mg, 1/2 a pill every few hours and the withdrawal was excruciating- headache, depression, upset stomach, diarea, threw up once, restless leg syndrome, intense anxiety, so strung out I couldn't focus on anything, very tired, talked in my sleep during bizarre dreams, very grumpy, and probably more stuff I can't remember.  I stayed at that level for about 3 weeks because I had to be focused and productive, and I felt OK.  Then I continued tapering 1/4 pill once a week which gave me 4 days of hell and 3 days of not too bad.  When I got down to 3/4 pill a day I stopped entirely- that was an awful week but from then on it just kept getting better.  I had the 30 and 60 day PAWS and I look forward to my 90 day PAWS---- NOT!  But aside from that, life is beautiful!  Come and Join me!  You can do it, just fight like hell!

That's how I did it, we're all a little different so you have to do whatever is best for you.  I took supplements and remedies that I learned of from other Tram fighters posts.  You probably know that stuff and many of the other Tram fighters know a lot more than I do.  But if you want my remedies, let me know.

Keep posting, let us know how you're doing, we really want to be there for you!

I'm finally past the Thankdgiving fog and I feel great!

Love, strength and perseverance to all my Tram fighting buddies!  I need you!

  

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 28, 2011
haves,

Stay on the forum and we'll help you through it.

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by fightorfight, Nov 29, 2011
Haves--  Just like everyone else is saying--- stick with us here and we'll help you through to the best of our ability.  It can be done.   Lots of different ways.   All of them work with enough planning.  

Tramsick-  I'm glad you're back at the gym and feeling pretty good.   I'm happy that you're 100 days out from Tram, but also happy that you're getting things in line by any means possible.   Thats alright, you know?  We only have one life.   Grab the Bull by the Horns and shut whatever this underlying anxiety is.   I'm proud of you for getting back into the gym, and I'll think of you each time I start up that elliptical machine.    Keep us informed, and keep us hopeful.   I wish nothing but the very best for you as you continue to get better :).

Yoyo-  My pleasure, Beenhere and Tramsick probably know more about exercise post Tram than I do- I was never much of a gym rat until after my first go round with Trams a year and a half ago.   Something in that middle window of PAWS and serotonin deficiency made me start working out with ferocity.   I'm happy I found it, and strength training.   Despite this particular setback, I now realize just how important regular exercise is to a body and mind, especially one post Tram.  

Humility is a wonderful thing, but in regards to getting off Tram, we've got a bevvy of bonafide experts posting in these journals.   Everybody has their own story, their own methods, their own struggle--- but the end result gives us a certain amount of wisdom regarding this whole thing.   We're here to help each other out, and we all have our own particular specialties.    Everyone coming through this process can benefit from people positing and posting.   Keep it up.

I'm past the 30 day mark, and didn't get much of a flare-up on day 30.   It was harder getting up and going, and I was off for parts of that day, but I'm back again and feeling just fine.    I hope everyone else feels the same either now, or in due time.

FoF

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by haves, Nov 29, 2011
So I am willing to give a taper plan a try. I don't think would make it through finals CT now, I have about 60 or more  50ml( I could count them), I realize there is alot of experience here. My only question is - has anyone here truly ct AND taper . Because I want to know if the withdrawal is that much better. I feel like if I am going to withdrawal either way I might as well plan a 7 day vacation And get it over with but .idk.
So like I said earlier, I was using any were from 100 to 200mg daily. Maybe one it two days I did 300. And sometimes only 150mg. I can last all day on 100 and probaly sleep ok but wake up the next day in a panic. My two chief complaints are axniety and stomach cramps / gi Tract issues. Every other symptom - I can sort of deal with. In the past I've rebounded quickly with exercise and good health food. I detox from herion , oc and tram before AND yeah I though I was dieing coming off tram ct before. I was taking Alot more then 15 to 20 a day.

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by turkeytrotter, Nov 29, 2011
It's now 10 days, double digits...its 6am and I can not sleep to save my life, that I can deal with but I am hot. Haves, sorry about your stomach cramps, I guess we all have that one symptom that is the worse. For me its this stupid sweating....anywho, good luck on your journey. I guess I am lucky though, I dont have depression or any of that other stuff I am reading here. I am wondering if running might have something to do with that with it putting out natural happy chemicals.

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by Sarabie, Nov 29, 2011
haves and blessnblind - everything can be done. I think it depends on which circumstances you are in. I went from 1200 mg a day to 0 in five days. (no seizures)  but I had great conditions. Could take the time off, my family knew etc.

Blessnblind - you shouldn't worry about seizures. Your daily dose wasn't big enough for that to happen. But if you worry about the w/d's, just do like the others, cut your pills in quaters and taper slowly. But since you have come so far already, I personally think you should go ahead with your ct. You are very close. My w/d's peeked after 36-48 hours without tram and then it was slowly getting better. It will for you too.

I'm just glad November is ending soon. That's just the most boring month in Denmark. We don't celebrate Thanksgiving, there are no holidays etc. Just dark, cold and stormy days. So I'm greeting December with open arms :-D

Love Susie

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 29, 2011
Been a busy week, tomorrow I go to Dubai for some training.  I am a bit nervous because I am taking the tram with me and its considered a narcotic in Dubai.  And since I dont have a valid prescription....actually are the online perscriptions technically valid?  I put them in a multivitamin bottle in my checked luggage, but I could put them in the orange bottle that it came in with my name.  I am probably stressing over nothing, but I dont like traveling with stuff like that.

It should be interesting, I have to take and hopefully pass 6 exams in a 17 day period of time.  One-on-one training.  You know how bad tram makes you forget things, not sure how well this is going to go.  I am tapering though so its not like I am high on tram all day.

I havent been to the gym much this past week either, I can tell mentally.  Its amazing how better you feel when you train regularly, hopefully the place in Dubai has a gym.

So how did everyone do through the Thanksgiving weekend?  I know social events like that used to push me to take more.  Curious how everyone dealt with it.

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by tramsick, Nov 29, 2011
BeenHereBefore.  I actually got a panic attack Thanksgiving day, was not fun.  I quickly made the a casserole and the stuffing (my siblings all kind of contributed different dishes, we were at my dad's house).  I retreated to the bedroom and told everyone I wasn't feeling well and cried and cried.  Panic attacks are so debilitating to me.  I hope to someday be rid of them for good.  I am really fortunate to have an AMAZING family that really supports me.  I don't know if they completely understand what's going on with me.  Here them talking about me a lot, behind my back.  They ask my husband a lot of questions they don't feel comfortable asking me.  My poor husband, he has to be the most positive person I've met in my life, like my dad.  So, it's been hard for him to understand all the tram has done to me.  

I'll tell you one thing, I will never be tempted to take those devil pills again.  There's just been too much aftermath for me.  How was your Thanksgiving?  Did you get tempted?  I understand if you would, especially if they haven't turned on you like they have me.  I remember when they made me feel superhuman, but that didn't last.

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by legaljunky, Nov 29, 2011
Thanksgiving day I was fine, then the bigger family gathering the next day was too much for me.  Half way thru I couldn't think straight anymore, I couldn't hold a conversation and as we left, someone came running out to our car with my purse I had forgotten.  Social interaction and memory are so hard for me when I get worn out.  Even the next  2 days I hardly functioned.  I would have liked being in bed but my son was visiting and I felt I should spend time with him.  He knows my situation.

I still don't have my energy back.  I'm gonna start sublingual B12 and AIM International's Barley Life again.  If I hadn't posted I wouldn't have thought of them!  2 days after Thanksgiving I felt so awful and I was trying to figure out what to do to make myself feel better.  I realized that might be what brings some of us back to Tramadevil.  I had no craving or desire for more Tram, just hoped coffee would help.  Or lots of water.  No luck.  It just took time.

Tramsick- It's so awful that you have this much trouble after being clean 104 days.  Hang in there.  My thoughts are with you.

Strength, love and hope to all of us!

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by haves, Nov 29, 2011
Seeking advise - I need to get thru finals at college next week. I took 100 mg today and it made it worse. I was falling a sleep. So I don't think I can do it in detox and I guess I have to take 50 mg. Usually 100 gives me energy today it got me off. I feel complete at a loss. I don't want to mess up my grades. I can either go CT now and hope I'm thru the major withdrawals by this weekend or try and take only 50 mg and hope I don't have a repeat of today.

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by legaljunky, Nov 29, 2011
Haves- My opinion is if you go CT today you will never be done with WD by the week end.  When I was tapering and I had something to get thru with my brains intact I stayed at whatever level I was at until after the event (your exams).  Then I went back to tapering. In my opinion, your finals are important enough to do whatever it takes to get you thru them.  You can get back on track when they're over.  Good luck!

Acceptance, strength and love! To all of us!

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by Sarabie, Nov 30, 2011
Haves - you have only been taking them for 3 weeks, so w/d's shouldn't be that rough. If I was you, I'd try the CT today and see what happens. When I started using trams I could easily go for weeks without, with no w/d's. I don't think your body and mind is addicted yet. But if you get w/d's - do what Legaljunky wrote. Your finals is your future.

Love, Susie

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by BeenHereBefore, Nov 30, 2011
Wow, so I flew to Dubai today, and I packed all my tram and the rest of my prescription in my checked baggage.  I figured it would be safer there since they consider tram a narcotic and even my real script like Adderall can get me in trouble.  So there I am, waiting at the belt for my bag and it stops.  Oh ****!  They lost it.  I am supposed to go to 17 days of one-on-one training and they just lost all my meds!  I fill out the baggage claim and they said they should have it in a couple days.  I was freaking scared, once again, stranded without it.  

So I go to my hotel, I call the baggage office so I can give them my hotel number.  LUCKILY, the guy said they have it.  I was so relieved.  I went to pick it up and was still a bit nervous because I thought maybe they found it and were holding it for a reason.  But I just grabbed it and went through customs.  

I have seriously worried about that situation occurring ever since I signed up for this training.  My last post even mentioned it.   My tapering has been non-existent because of the crazy schedule with work and trying to get ready for this.  I know its not a good excuse but it persuaded me enough to not worry about the taper the past week.

Uggh, been a rough day.  I think I am going to go out and get a decent meal and go to bed.  I cant wait for the day I am not dependent of this, unfortunately I feel like something like this is going to happen eventually before I am off.....

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by SingleDadOnTram, Nov 30, 2011
Had an unexpected panic attack today for an hour and a half.

I've been stabilized on a steady, low dose of tram for a couple of months after a harsh taper, and all symptoms except some depression had disappeared.  And then, out of the blue, I had a moderate panic attack today.  Luckily, I recognize the symptoms (for me, the dead giveaway is a compulsion to pace), so I didn't add any of my own fear to the mix - I just tried to bear it and to get through it.  Boy they $uk though.

I've read about others having WD symptoms popping up randomly after they hadn't had any in weeks - well, today I lived it.

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by tramsick, Nov 30, 2011
Singledad, I know all about those panic attacks.  It's been my lingering w/d symptom, possibly PAWS.  They are NOT fun.  I hope they are fleeting for you, they weren't for me. I'm managing them though, with an antidepressant and benzo.  I'm going to wean off the benzo once the antidepressant kicks in.  Thus goes the merry go round that tram started.

It does help when you recognize the symptoms to manage them.  I hope you won't ever need meds.  Some natural things that have helped me is a calming tea and kava kava. My GP told me to breath into a paper bag, though I never tried it. Hylands has some good homeopathic combinations too.  Calms Forte and Nerve Tonic.  Hopefully you won't need them though and the panic won't return.  That is my wish for you.  Sorry it happened.  They are just awful!

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by turkeytrotter, Nov 30, 2011
Tomorrow will be day 12...last night sucked; I think I would've stayed asleep if I hadn't kept waking up from sweating. I ran today, two miles. I wasn't sweating today but it is starting up again....I thought I'd be done with this by now.

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by Icandothis10, Nov 30, 2011
BeenHere - NO!  It's not going to happen, because we're going to get you off of this evil leash in the form of a pill before you and I end up somewhere on this planet where we are stranded and have absolutely no hope of getting our lifeline of pills.  We can't do this.  Remember, it's not going to be easy forever.  

Even if you can't "concentrate" on your taper, don't just randomly take handfuls, be cognizant and try not to take more than you did the day before and you'll be still doing well.  Don't get down over this.

Everyone else....I hope you're doing well.  Hang in there.  Remember to take your vitamins, amino acids and drink a lot of tea and water.  Exercise is the absolute best and so is breathing and relaxation.  I've done pretty well taking a little less than 6 a day and I know I need to continue.  I have learned one hard lesson and that is that if you're going to taper, you MUST taper very slowly.  Don't think that you can take a 3 or 4 year habit of 20+ pills a day and just taper down within a couple weeks time.  Your body needs time to adjust and be cranked back to where it needs to be.  It's a very long road and I still have a way to go but it's worth it.  I already feel so much better not having to find a way to replenish a bottle of pills every two weeks.  Since Oct 29, I've ordered three bottles vs. doing a reorder every week and half.  I have also realized that you have to reward yourself and be happy for the accomplishments that you do along the way and realize that it's a step in the right direction.  It's so important to succeed.  We can do this!  


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by fightorfight, Nov 30, 2011
Turketrotter--  Yeah, that will happen for a little bit longer.   A good way to think about it, is that more tram is leaving your system.   Your body does a lot of its purification and detox when you're asleep, which is one of those things that Tram insomnia stops for a little bit.    However, once you start to sleep the more the stuff comes out.  Running is a good way to start that process earlier than it would happen on its own.    While disconcerting, its totally normal--- and I still have a night where I'll wake up and have to switch pillows and all.   Less frequent though.

Beenhere-  Yeesh, thats really a tough situation.   I'm glad you got them without a hassle, but yeah I'm sure that was probably one of the longest set of hours you've had recently regarding this stuff.   I hope the training goes well and you can get back into your routine of working out.  

Ican-  I hope that you too are doing well with your taper.   Thats where I was the first time, ordering a bottle every two weeks.   Thats right at the point where I was like..."Jesus".    I'm glad you're getting some breathing room.   :).    Hope your time is going alright as well.     You and Beenhere are doing a yeoman's job.  

Having a couple down days recently.   Day 30 was kinda tough, then I had a good day, and now a series of rather bad days.   Physically fine, but can't seem to enjoy much.   I guess it'll come through in time.  

Take care all.

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by booba77, Nov 30, 2011
I never had anxiety with withdrawal, but I had one panic attack and it was terrible. I feel for you. My brother swears by the kava kava. He uses it for insomnia. Good news: the body found isnt my brother's. Bad news: he is still missing and we have no idea where he is. I need to get back on my taper or go cold turkey. Until I can find my brother, i'm going to be wrought with depression and worry anyway, so I may as well go ahead and get off this horrible stuff. My mood swings are so terrible on tram. Does anyone else feel super snappy all of the time?  I'm proud of all of you who have beaten tram. It is so difficult and you should be proud of your accomplishments. Goodnight and God bless.

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 01, 2011
Booba77, tram mood swings are VERY common.  Even though they can make you "happy", they also make me very impatient and the worst is they drop your inhibitions a bit so you will snap at people when normally you could control it.

Kava Kava does work.  Dont buy the kinda you see at the grocery store.  But the pure Kava paste.  It tastes like crap but really works.  I had to order it.  I dont remembet the website but just google "kava extracts Kava paste".  Its basically the stuff straight from the roots.

Some thing else to help you sleep, try Phenibut.  I guess your not suppose to take it for more than a week at a time but it doesnt have abuse potential.  I have noticed it will help knock me out and I sleep deeper than normal.  It takes awhile to kick in though.

Turkeytrotter - the sweats!!!  I couldnt believe how much I sweat at night when I went could turkey.  I had to lay down towels on my bed in the middle of the night.  I would wake up with actual drips of sweat on my body.  It was like I had been sitting in a sauna.  This dont last long, but its normal.  Its weird though, I wont sweat at all and then if I dose off for 20 minutes I would still wake up all sweaty.  Its like your body is detoxifying while your asleep.  It was even over the winter when I did the CT.  I couldnt have my GF stay over because it was so bad.

Yesterday was just another reminder that I HAVE to get off this stuff.  I need to be aggressive with it.  It seems like the online places are becoming more suspicious about my ordering.  Its going to be hard to taper during this weeks of training, but I have to watch it because I need to remember all this stuff.  This class is usually over 35 days, I dont have that much time so they are willing to do 17 days with the same amount of content.  I have to pass 6 exams to get the certification.  It will be rough but if I pull it off I will feel great.  Luckily you stay in student housing so you stay focused all the time.  

Well, I am off to eat some lunch.  Most of you are hopefully sleeping right now.

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by Sarabie, Dec 01, 2011
Beenherefore - Please start taper. There's no way you'll be able to remember all that stuff while popping 20 trams a day. You can taper a great amount in the beginning, so if you could get down to 10 or so, your chance to pass that course is much better. Also I guess they'll expect that you'll actually learn something to use in daily work, so it's not enough just to remember from day to day.

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by loopey2u, Dec 01, 2011
Wow, lots more posts.  I haven't been around because the holiday was busy and then I had to start Christmas shopping.  Don't know where my taper partner is either, but oh well.  

Today is the 1st day off Tram for me.  I can't wait any longer or taper any more.  16 hours since my last dose and I am sweating and have a runny nose already.  I took a 40 mg. prozac this morning with 3 immodium pills, so we will see how different the withdrawals are this time with adding the Prozac.

I do have a fever, 100.5 but it's from the pills.  My shrink apt. is on Monday, so at least I've got backup.  

Battening down the hatches and strapping myself in for what is probably going to be a very bumpy ride...Hopefully less bumpy this time...

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 01, 2011
Loopey, do you have any Clonidine?  I heard that helps the running nose and anxiety, lowers your blood pressure basically.

Sarabie - Yea, I dont take that many on work days,  I do much better when I am on a set schedule.  

Right now I take two doses a day, one at 7-8am, and one around 5pm.  I am starting to think it would be better to dose about 4 times, that way you dont ever get the high feeling from it but can still taper.  Kind of like trying to eat healthy, you never want to skip meals and then gorge down a dinner, better to eat small ones throughout the day.

What are other peoples taper schedule?  I would also like to not take my morning dose until I am at work for about an hour.  Right now its like I need them to get out of bed.  I need to get over that, thats why it takes me forever to get out of bed on my days off.

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 01, 2011
Thanks, I just hope it stops soon...its driving me nuts. I wonder if I am peeing tram...God knows I am in the can a lot but was doing that while on tram. I am wondering if when my RX comes through should I go back on and taper slow like some of yall just stop this torture. It isn't just when I sleep...I sweat during the day while just sitting here....and when i'm not sweating I am freezing...I can handle being cold, easier to get warm than it is to get cool. When I got home from running, I was drenched....

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 01, 2011
Turkeytrotter - you are past day 12!!! DO NOT TAKE A SINGLE PILL!!!  You have beat the hardest, most dreaded part of the withdrawal, dont even think about tapering now.  I was starting to sleep normal at day 10.  Dont go back, so many of us would love to be in your shoes right now.  

This is the time when you have to fill your time with new positive activities.  You need something to keep you busy when you used to get high.  I think this whole group knows that if you take a pill to "taper" now you will relapse.  I did.  Its the thinking of an addict.  Be strong, be strong, BE STRONG.  You have went so far, I know those 12 days felt like 12 months.  

I cant renforce this idea enough, dont feel afraid or ashamed of looking up an NA class or speaking to counselors.  If I dont beat this thing physically and mentally, I am paying $5k to go into rehad overseas.  You cant live your life on tram, everyone here knows how hard it is once you are clean and you have that bored, what do I do with myself, everything *****, attitude.  Its kinda negative, but its the way we feel for awhile, BUT NOT FOREVER.  You have proven to be stronger than the drug, dont let it come back and win.

I dont know your whole background, but when I see you have been clean for 12 days but can get a script filled tomorrow then that 12 days was just a waste.  If you relapse you are going to feel more anxiety and depression than you did this time around.  Failure is a horrible feeling, you can control that.  Be one of the posters on here that says "I am 20 days clean!", "I am 40 days clean!", "I am 365 days clean!!"  You owe it to yourself.

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by tramsick, Dec 01, 2011
Hi FOF! Just wanted to touch base.  I read your recent post and I know what you mean about that "can't enjoy much feeling."  It's the holidays and there is so much more to feel good about than bad in my life and for some reason, especially this morning, I just want to do nothing, enjoy nothing.  Do you get this feeling often?  I try to stay busy when I feel like this, but the minute I slow down, there it comes again.  Then I'll have some good days in between.  Everyone around me is soooo friggin happy, you'd think it would rub off :)  

I started a birth control pill that shouldn't effect my PAWS anxiety, and so far so good.  I hate adding another pill to the mix, but getting pregnant now is NOT an option, now that I'm on Lexapro.  

How has Prozac been working for you? Do you think the "can't enjoy much" feeling is part of PAWS?  I would hope that eventually the antidepressants we're on would negate that feeling.  Anyway, hope you're doing better, and congratulations at passing that 30 day mark!

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 01, 2011
Beenthere, I never felt high from tram...if anything they made me want to sleep. I don't feel depressed...just annoyed because I want this freak temp changes to stop and I want to sleep.

I don't have a script for it...and haven't taken any. I don;'t have any around me to take.

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 01, 2011
Sorry for the typo in your name...meant beenhere. I think I need to go soak in a tub...later

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by SingleDadOnTram, Dec 01, 2011
"everyone here knows how hard it is once you are clean and you have that bored, what do I do with myself, everything *****, attitude."

Exactly!


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by loopey2u, Dec 01, 2011
Don't take any Turkey, Beenhere's right.  You are through the worst of it.  Going back on to taper is just going to make you go through that again.  The temp. changes will pass in time.  STICK WITH IT!   you're doing great!!

It's 24 hours now and not 1 brain zap.  I had them at the 20 hour mark before. I have what feels like it could be brain zaps, like my head jerks,(hard to explain) but no zaps.  No Clondine either, and I do wish I had some because my BP tends to run on the high side.  Just prozac,and I had 8 (500 mg.) of vicoden left over from my old script.  I'm saving those for the weekend when things might get rough.  I have xanax too, but I won't take it when I take vicoden. Honestly, besides being extremely tired, having a low grade fever, sweating and then freezing, and a runny nose I'm really OK.  And surprised.

We'll see tomorrow, and if I don't need the vidocen I'm not taking them.  

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by JULIUS23, Dec 01, 2011
DAY 45 CLEAN  ....HEY YOU GUYS IM JULIUS... LIKE MOST OF YILE IM ALSO TRYNA BEAT THIS DEVIL DRUG TRAMADOL N LET ME TELL YOU THEIR IS LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL... I CNT BEGAN TO DESCRIBE WHAT I HAVE BEEN GOING THRU FOR DA LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS. GOOD DAYS AND BAD DAYS.. I WAS TAKING BETWEEN 8 TO 9 PILLS A DAY FOR BOUT 3 YEARS FOR BAD STOMACH PAIN DAT WENT THRU OUT MY WHOLE BODYN OF COURSE MY DOCTOR PRESCRIBE ME WITH TRAMADOL 50MG... AT FIRST I WAS LIKE DIS MEDICINE IS DA Shhhhh LOL I LUVED IT AND DA FEELING OF  WELL BEING AND IT TOOK AWAY ALL THE PAIN AND AS TIME WENT BY MY BODY GREW A PHYSICALL DEPENDENCE ON IT AND I FOUND MYSELF IN A SITUATION DAT I HAD TO GET OUT OF SO ON 17,OCT I QUIT COLD TURKEY USING CLONIDINE AND ATIVAN FOR ANXIETY N IT WAS RUFF.... BUT AFTER ABOUT 3 WEEKS I STARTED TO NOTICE A BIG DIFFERENCE BUT THE ONLY THING THAT WAS KICKING MY BUT WAS THE HORRIFIC BRAIN ZAPS I WUD HAVE ALL DAY N IT IS VERY ANNOYING SYMPTOM!!! VERYYYY ANNOYING... I WAS FED UP WIT IT N SO MY DOCTOR PRESCRIBED ME WITH PROZAC FOR DEPRESSION WHICH I REALLY DIDNT HAVE ALOT OF BUT IT WAS THEIR N WITH JUS ONE PILL OF THE PROZAC IT TOOK AWAY ALLL THE BRAIN ZAPS FOR THE ENTIRE WEEK N I DIDNT HAVE TO TAKE ANOTHER PILL FOR THE NEXT 7 DAYS... SO PRETTY MUCH IM ONLY TAKING DA PROZAC ONCE A WEEK AND IM FINE WIT DAT... IM A GUY WHO STAYS N SHAPE N I TRY TO DO AS MUCH WORKING OUT AS POSSIBLE N IM TAKING A SUPER B-COMPLEX VITAMIN AS WELL...DAY 45 AINT BAD... AINT BAD AT ALL.. CNT WAIT TO CATCH UP WITH EMILY ONE DAY LOL ... GOD BLESS ALL OF YILE N... ITS WAR..... SO KEEP FIGHTING!!!!

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by Sarabie, Dec 01, 2011
denise - I'm speechless. I wish you good luck on whatever you decide. But please be carefull - marijuana, kratom, valium isn't necessary. We have all gone through those dreadfull w/d's and taken vitamins etc. Some need depression medicine, others don't. But taking narcotics to get off narcotics is just not the way. Taper instead. Read some of the older posts in here, ask questions etc. Just be carefull.

julius - congrats. the world without tram is indeed a great world...!!!

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by JULIUS23, Dec 01, 2011
even though im on day 45 without tramadol,,, everything jus seem soo boring n i try to find myself sumthn to do since i got laid off at my job recently it has been hard on me... i feel like if i was working it wud make the days go by faster... well maybe dis is wat i get for being on tramdol :-(... jus wish i wud have thought twice before taking it 3 years ago but my doctor said its not addictive and its safe... YEEEAAA  RITTEEE!!!!!  well i cnt complain too much bc i have alot to be thankful for especially where im at rite now..... i feel good but not normal... question is what is normal???

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by denised1982, Dec 01, 2011
sarabie- Thanks for the advice. i just got out of the tub of dr teals epsom salts with spearmint and eucalyptus... ahhh.... im back on the massager on my mid back. my legs hurt, but not as bad. I need to get some sleep to go to work but im afraid to go to sleep because of getting stiff. i slept 10-11 hours off of the trazadone, but i woke up at 11 am( i was off the past couple of days). The long post of the head shop deal with all the supplements and the fake pot I wrote that on 9/22/2011. I was going thru WDs that day and had to work that night I believe and I wrote that letter to a friend and I saved it under my documents.. It ***** that something that works well stops working and then oops, you're f**ked. You're killing your brain from the inside out, and you try to hide it from everybody, but everybody knows around you that you have a problem. About a year ago when I was living at home I asked my dad (the pharmacist) for some of his ultram (he was prescribed it after a total hip replacement), just until my shipment gets in and he went totally slap the f**k off saying "you're really messing up and being so damn stupid, this **** is just as addictive as the narcotics. I only take it when I absolutely cant take any more pain, and you order this **** off the internet when you could use that money to pay a doctor. you need to think. it's just as addictive! i cant believe this goddamn ****. youre a *******..." and shakes his head in disappointment and proceeds to hand me two tramadol, because he knew i was in pain,  he was aware because years before i found tramadol, i was going thru bottles of ibuprofen 500 tabs very quickly, and dad was like, "you're gonna die of a bleeding ulcer if you don't quit taking this **** so often..." it was insane, because even though the ibuprofen didnt work, i still took it. even though the tramadol stopped working, i still took it. like a band-aid. like a security blanket.. like i said, i have abused drugs in the past, in my early 20's i used to snort anywhere between an 8 ball and 1/4 oz of coke a day for a good eight to twelve months. I lost weight... and I quit cold turkey. Sure, I was pissed off for about a week, but I was ready to quit and not find myself like scarface and I didn't WD other than being irritable. However, I did catch up on a bunch of needed sleep too! Im sure my dad knows about the coke but Im damn sure not going to admit it to him. He would throw a clot!! Anywho, enough about that! Im just explaining that I have done other stupid **** in my life but it did not have the profound effect of WDs or a "stranglehold" that this tramadol **** has on me. I have no idea why. God, isn't it great to have an addictive personality. Pshhh.... Oh... and sarabie, I took the kratom before I hit the tub and the head seemed to potentiate the kratom or the relief and I don't have a problem with seizures.. It runs in the family, but it's just my brother and my mom (from ptsd) who has had them... my brother had 2 strokes and grand mal and petit mal seizures at aged 5 that left his right side affected but he walks, talks and all that just fine.. he's gonna be 32 in 3 days and has completed his masters degree and everything else. He is looking for a job. I hope he finds one but the job market is kinda shoddy at this point. Anyway, if my big bro can live most of his life in pain from his right side, I guess maybe I should look up to him. I really do admire him, he has cheated death at 5 and came out with a masters degree. He is so smart and has a totally beautiful mind that is clear and crisp and remembers everything he has ever learned i think since 1st grade! I cant remember the last couple of years! He is on CNS drugs and everything! But he possesses a pure heart and a driven mind to succeed. He thinks positively, rationally. I don't, at least not for now (nor have I ever, come to think about it). I gave my momma and dad hell and at 29 even though Im not living with them I STILL am giving them hell. They are worried, my sisters, my brother, my fiance, my friends, my coworkers, all worried. Because if something happened to me and I wasnt there to laugh and joke and share precious moments with them, they would be hurt, and I don't want to be the one who "pulls the trigger" and goes out like that. I have had so many people that Ive been thru high school with that has OD'd and died it's pathetic. And it keeps getting worse. So yes, I have a history of mental illness in the family too, and Im afraid Im in the same boat. What a wonderful stigma that I have to be stuck with : crazy junkie. Its a label, and a hard one to get away from.  Im just hoping I'll level off with this crap soon. I hope my celexa gets in my system to offset the ongoing withdrawals, which sounds like to me that this stuff is like a legal, somewhat cleaner form of extacy. It totally depletes serotonin and norepinephrine. I also know that painkillers make you hurt because I believe it releases so many endorphins and dopamines, just my opinion, just my past experiences. Thanks for the rant. I will keep posting and keep yall in my thoughts and prayers.
-Denise

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by denised1982, Dec 01, 2011
julius... keep yourself busy... trust me.. idle hands are the devil's workshop...

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by denised1982, Dec 01, 2011
oh... talking about tramadol being a legal form of extacy... mind going 100 miles a second.. but whatever.. it's a release of tension.. hahha... i am in my bathrobe and its 5:10 pm and i went outside to smoke a cigarette.. my neighbor pulled up into the parking lot and im in my white bathrobe with big black socks on, so she waves at me and i kick up my leg with my dorky looking black socks and white bathrobe... we both cracked up laughing. she always dresses so nice.. hahaha.. at least i can laugh at myself... gonna go do some breathing exercises and lay my back on a heating pad...

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by tramsick, Dec 01, 2011
denise and julius, I'm glad you're here.  Keep posting, this has been a great resouce in my recovery.  It's a place where you can come to vent and share and no one judges or snaps at you, just supports you.  That's how it should be.  We will all help you get through this.  Keep sharing.

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by denised1982, Dec 01, 2011
thanks tramsick... i need all the help i can get! it's a long road but ive put my body through worse... and the doc is holding me accountable. he's drug testing me on the 12th when i go back... i should be asleep... but... i cant!

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by Sarabie, Dec 01, 2011
Denise - you are amongst friends - we all know the urge to tell everyone every single detail going on while quitting this poison, so you just go ahead and post. Don't be so hard on yourself. Everyone have something in their luggage - I'm pretty sure that if we knew our friends deepest secrets, we would be shocked. All my friends think I'm extremely brave cause I posted on my FB wall that I have been using and abusing tramadol for 5 years. That I have lied, manipulated and messed with people I love and who love me and that I am so extremely sorry for all the pain I must have caused some people, when Tramadol took the best of me. I have only met support from everyone ever since. Even the ones I hurt along the way. But I could feel inside, that I just couldn't lie anymore. I was sick and tired of myself. Of that manipulative b**** I had become and I missed the sweet, funny, energetic and loving person I used to be. And it turned out my mom is still SO proud of me. I was terryfied she would think less of me, because of all this. Both she and my dad have been standing next to me during my CT (from 24 pills a day to 0). I learned that it doesn't kill me to show some weakness. I don't have to be strong all the time - it's ok to admit a problem. We are all different and have different agendas to why we wish to stop. I realized that everything that went wrong in my life the last couple of years, was tram related. Lost the best job in the world, lost the love of my life, lost my closest friend and I asked myself if it was worth it. The answer was quite clear. NO f..... way it was worth it. So I decided to stop on the spot, tell everyone, start a new future and see if I could fix the broken friendships. I'm getting there. Almost 80 days without tram, apologized to everyone, got in touch with the friend again, waiting to open my small diner, writing on my novel again. And I have given myself 6 monts to get everything worked out. I like having goals. The main goal is to win back the lost love. It will also be the hardest as it doesn't depend on my own abilities but on him. If I don't succed in that, I'll still have my diner, my friends and a life without tram and I can settle with that. Seriously, just the fact that I can go to bed at night and not worry about where to get my next 200 pills is  such a relief and gives me so much. Oh and my mom worries like every other mom in the world. Not because of the tram, but because mom's just can't stop worrying. 5 years ago it was because I moved to Trinidad. Before that it was because I moved to Paris - now it's because I'm moving to Copenhagen which is only 3 hours away, but moms like it best, when they have their offspring where they can see them.

Well I suddenly made it my story instead of commenting on your post. My whole point is this: come clean - tell your mom and dad. The only people in the world you can be sure won't judge you. They will worry, but they do that anyways. It's impossible to go through this alone. Oh and one more thing - if you in fact have fibromyalgia, tramadol won't help you. Neither will any other painkiller as it consists of acid which is like pure poison to a person with fibro. It increases the acid in your muscles and it will feel like your whole body is on fire.

Love, Susie

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by fightorfight, Dec 02, 2011
Hey guys,

New posters, keep it up!   Doing good work here.   Its all about putting in work it seems, somedays, but other days are better.   Hard to keep your head up sometimes, and thats true of any circumstance-- Tram WD just highlights that much more than a lot of things could do.

As far as someone saying that Tram is a legal Ecstasy-- they're half right.   Tram releases serotonin, it doesn't act as a serotonin reuptake inhibitor as previously thought--reuptake inhibition is limited to norepinephrine.   So yes, it is the only unscheduled drug to have that property.   Hence the immediate "anti-depressant" some people report.  

Tramsick- I hope you're doing well too,  hopefully the Lexapro is smoothing things out.   I'm not entirely sure how I'm doing at present.   I'm not sure if it has to do with the drugs, or if I'm just leveling out into my pre-holiday malaise.   Christmas will never be a happy time for me or my family.   We all deal with it in different ways.   Just going to keep going to the gym, keep going to work, and hope I catch a nice cool breeze in a week or two that puts a smile on my face.

Take care all.
FoF

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by denised1982, Dec 02, 2011
susie... I have told my parents over two weeks ago about dancing with the devil all the time when i was experiencing PAWS because my script came in a day late. I was crying and brain zapping and having anxiety and everything else. Im at work and im moving kinda slowly. Thank God for back braces. Will keep in touch. Stay well. Everybody. Thoughts and prayers are with all of you.             -Denise

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 02, 2011
denised1982 - Kratom is an herb, but it is addicting, and you will WD from it.  I have used it as well.  I really believe it can be a tapering tool, however, it doesnt last long and you have to take so much more of it.  Its hard to taper because one order can be more potent than the next, and its expensive.  Once I switched from Tram to Kratom for 10 days and then quit Kratom.  Let me tell you the WDs sucked just as bad.  Same with Valium, I have detox CT off valium (50mg a night for 5-6 months) and it wasnt easy.  Luckily I didnt have anymore so I had to ride it out, but it took forever to sleep again.

JULIUS - I know what you mean. I have been weight training since 1996, being in shape was my life.  I benched 465lb weighing 212lbs.  Once I started tram it slowly started affecting my training.  I never felt like going to the gym when I was on it.  And I didnt really care what I looked like when I was on tramadol, it just makes you not care about anything.  So now when I get depressed, a lot of it comes from all the muscle and hard work I lost from all those years in the gym.  It was a part of me, and I let a drug take the place of that.  I am doing a slow taper and trying to set small goals like just making it into the gym 4 times a week.  Nothing crazy for now, just small steps.  

So many of you know I am away in Dubai for training.  I counted up my tram and I have enough to average 13 a day.  Now I have been abusing it by taking 20 or more a day, so in a way this could backfire on me, or it could MAKE me taper.  I dont want to go any days without.    I do have some stuff from India that says its tram but it doesnt seem to work the same, I have 80 of them just in case.  I also have a little kratom.  When you travel in and out of war zones you can get stuck for a week or two, so I have to watch my consumption.  And tram is illegal as anything else over here, you usually think foreign country and think you can get anything.  Not in the middle east, they are very strict.

If I can make it back and be down to 10-13 a day I will be very happy.  But I do need to actually perform while I am in training, but taking to much tram makes me so forgetful, so I need to keep my doses down to just the point where I dont get WDs.

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by loopey2u, Dec 02, 2011
I can't believe this.  37 hours in, and all I have is extreme tiredness and insomnia.  Soooo tired, but can't sleep for $#!T. Been up since 3:15 am, tried to go back to sleep but it didn't work. This is nuts, but in a good way.  No flu, no sneezing, my body temp seems to have regulated itself, etc.  I think it's pretty safe to say that I have beaten the beast.  Thank you God!! (or insert your higher power here).

This just confirms my suspicion that it's actually SSRI discontinuation syndrome that most of us are experiencing when we quit this drug. Just like when I stopped Effexor.  It has to be.  All the symptoms match up, and if a single dose of prozac can mitigate the symptoms, it's got to be that.

http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/Antidepressant-discontinua.html

Guys, if you can get some prozac, I HIGHLY RECCOMEND getting it.  I only took (1 ) 40 mg. pill, and it seems to have helped tremendously.  You can also buy that online.  It's expensive, but if I had to go through those hellish w/d's again I'd gladly pay 100 bucks a pill if I knew it worked..lol

Trying to catch up with all the new posts.....Welcome newbies!!!  Keep posting, it really helps.

Together we can beat this.  There is no other option.

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by loopey2u, Dec 02, 2011
Sarabie, it's great you have your parents support and are trying to mend fences with those you lost because of Tram.  Keep up the good work, you're kicking @$$ at this.  <3  Good luck on your diner too.  What sort of food will you be serving?  Any particular ethnic variety??

Glad you told your parents too, Denise.  It's good to get it all out, whether that be on here or with those you love.  At least then people are aware of why you're acting the way you are.  Keep up the good work, you're doing great.  Please don't take the Kratom or anything else illegal to get off this poison, you're only setting yourself up for another addiction.   I hope your Celexa kicks in soon, and that you have as mild of a withdrawal as possible.  Keep posting.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time BeenHere.  Is there any way you can get some Prozac and try it over a weekend and kinda test it out and see how you feel?  I went from 3.5 a day cold turkey with the prozac.  Sorry I keep mentioning it, but I am still in awe over here about how much of an easier time I'm having coming off this stuff compared to the HELL it was last time.

I too have noticed that different manufacturers of the drug affect it's potency.  My hubby was taking it too, and his pills didn't work as good as my pills did.  Same pill, different manufacturer.  Weird.  He no longer takes it, it did nothing for his pain, and he had mild w/d's too.

Julius, I see you have had luck with the 1 dose of prozac as well.  It can't be a coincidence.  Glad you're feeling better, and stay as busy as you can.  Whoever posted an idle mind is the devil's playground was spot on.

Have a great weekend everybody!!



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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 02, 2011
loopey, I am glad you are not having nearly as bad of a WD as you planned. I cant see how one prozac would make a difference though....?  I have taken SSRIs for years, they usually have no effect until at least the 2nd to 3rd week.  In fact, when you stop taking them your WDs wont kick in for 1.5 weeks.  I wonder if it was maybe mind over matter?  We can make the anxiety worse by worrying about the WD.  

I told myself after a rough experience that I would never try to diagnose myself over the internet again.  You read all these horror stories or these symptoms and you swear thats you.  I thought I had AIDs once, I freaked out for weeks, I took so many tests, every month for a good 6 months, then I finally settled down and realized I was being a worry wart.  I wasnt even in a high risk situation to get it.  But I got this horrible throat infection like a week after being with someone and I started looking on the internet, sure enough flu like symptoms a week after the encounter is a symptom.  i was being retarded, but wow was I scared at the time.  I have done this same type of freaking out over other things that have happened in my life.  I tend to over think or over analyze things.  The glass is always half empty, whats the catch, etc.

The first time I went CT I didnt know what to expect.  In fact, when I quit I figured if I was hooked it would kick in the next day. So I was really surprised on day 2 when I felt fine.  I didnt think I was hooked on it or anything.  It wasnt until day 3 that it kicked in, and I got on the internet and started reading the horror stories.  And then it became 10x worse in a matter of an hour.

Same thing goes for a valium WD.  I had been taking them for 5-6 months, 50mg a night.  I never thought valium was considered that strong, I figured I would have a couple nights that I couldn't sleep.  So when I left Iraq and flushed the valium I wasnt worried at all.  The first week home I slept fine, probably because of the jet lag.  But about a week later went by and I couldnt sleep a damn wink.  I just started a new job that morning on zero sleep.  I didnt even realize it was Valium WDs, I just thought I was nervous for my new job.  Then the 2nd night I didnt sleep.

  I was like WTF and I thought about the valium.  I did some research and sure enough, it takes about a week for withdrawals to kick in and you have to taper, I could of died from the amount I was taking going CT.  So then my anxiety went up because I knew I was going through WDs and it was going to last weeks.  So I made it worse on myself.  On top of that I couldnt just call in sick my first weeks on the job, luckily I just said I was just out of it because of the time change, but man it sucked.

Bottom line:  I am just as guilty as anyone else, but I think a lot of us make it worse than what it really is because we stress about it so much.  The anxiety and mental depression we bring upon, which leads to actual physical symptoms. Its like when you are worried about something and you cant eat.  Personally I know I make this situation worse than what it is.  I know the WDs are real, but I wonder how we would take it if we had no idea we would WD at all.  I know we would feel like we were getting sick, but I have to wonder how bad the depression would be.  I guarantee it would be easier.  I take lexapro already, and I bought wellbutrin for when I get down to really quitting, but I think a lot of the stuff I buy is going to just help as a placebo, and if that works then let it be.

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by JULIUS23, Dec 02, 2011
HEY YOU GUYS IF YOU WANT TO GO BAK N READ FROM MY DETOX FROM DAY 1 CHECK DIS OUT..

http://julius-23.hubpages.com/

hey i think im coming down with a bad cold or a bad sinus infection n i feel horrible... luckily i was able to take some theraflu medicine pm n i feel a little better, but anywho i was checking on everybody n you guys i appreciate all the support bc i really dnt think i can do this without yile and im truly blessed to be welcomed on dis website n i feel rite at home... we all gotta stick together n im mean STICK TOGETHER!!!. dis is serious stuff and once you think u start to feel better its always sumthn dat tries to knock you down and u jus gotta hold on.. when i was taking dat TRAMADEVIL!!! i had no emotions or anything bc i was too relaxed and only cared bout my damn self and as long as i had my pills i was a million dollar lottery winner lol... its funny how dem pills will make u feel.. from 500 to 600mg a day to day 46 clean from dat medicine it doesent get any better than dis and dont doubt yourself if ur on day 3 or day 12 bc it does get better and you are doing the rite thing by getting your life back!!! YOU HAVE SUMTHN WORTH FIGHTING FOR .... ITS WAR!!!... to everybody posting new or veterans keep up da good fight... god bless yile n i will check on yile later ima try to get sum more rest bc dis cold is kicking my but....

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by loopey2u, Dec 02, 2011
Thanks, Julius.

BeenHere, I can totally relate to and completely agree we can make things worse or better depending on our state of mind.  Guilty as charged, I do it all the time and get all worked up about stuff that turns out to be nothing in the end anyway.

Maybe it IS my mind playing tricks on me, and it probably is but I'll take it..lol   If I didn't know why I was so tired and can't sleep I would have just blamed it on the weather and leave it at that.  I was really, really scared yesterday when I decided to jump ship but I just had to be done with this. I kept waiting for the zaps and the flu but it never came.  I have decided to stay on the Prozac forever now, (I have a bad habit of stopping it when I feel good) and will never take another Tram again.





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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 02, 2011
Stay on the SSRI, I think they work well in leveling out the emotional highs and lows.  There are a lot to chose from, and they really arent that bad to get off of.  Sure you will read some nasty stories, I remember prozac even got sued in the beginning because of the WDs that they failed to mention to patients.  However they have come a long way since then.  I would imagine 20-25% of the US is on some type of SSRI.  They are a lot more common anymore.

Its easy for me to say its all in our heads, and dont let it take you over.  At that point you are ALREADY thinking about it.

I mentioned before on here that I could be feeling bad, like I need a dose of tram, like I was starting WDs or something.  And the minute I swallow them its like the bad feelings went away instantly.  The medicine didnt kick in obviously, but you feel much better knowing that in 30 minutes you will be feeling even better.  It just goes to show how much control your mind has over this.  

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by Sarabie, Dec 02, 2011
Beenherebefore - I think you are right - it makes it worse when you are expecting it to be very bad. When I quit Trams I searched everywhere online to find someone who knew what it was all about. I didn't find anything. So I posted on a Danish site called psychedelia where drugs are being discussed - and asked those guys what to expect. They didn't really know, but said I shouldn't worry too much. They said tram is a mild opiat and therefore the w/d's wouldn't be too rough. A couple of days in bed. I settled for that and had my couple of days in bed with the tramaflue, and got up and worked on getting my phycics back - like they recommanded. It was some rough days and I'll never go through it again, but that was it. 5 years of use and abuse was over and I was happy.

Then I found this forum and read how everyone else is dealing with brain zaps, depression etc. and I wonder - if I had known that is a common symptom, would I have experienced it as well? Well I don't know and frankly I'm just happy that I got out so easily compared to all af you. But it's an interessting theory.

Loopey - yes it's a hotdog diner. That's very popular here in Denmark. We have a million different kind of sausages here and we have small hotdog diners everywhere. Mine will be a bit different than the others though, as I'm going to make veggie hotdogs as well. I've got a great location - just outside a big park, People are icescating here in the wintertime and in summertime they are playing, enjoying the sun etc. So ther'll be plenty of work and money to be made.

Love Susie

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by denised1982, Dec 02, 2011
Kratom is something that Im not going to try to get into everyday... And it's legal where I live. I can go to the herbal head shop and buy it in capsule form.. same brand, standard potency. I know it can be addictive, but I can't see myself liking it too much.. it just takes the edge off of my back and leg pain. Then I take 800 mgs of Ibuprofen and go soak in epsom salts or get on the heating pad or massager...Then when it's bedtime I take my Trazadone and Celexa. Let me tell you. It has been a big help. Trazadone causes constipation, so I don't get the runs! And I go to sleep! Its a two fer one! And it helps with anxiety, so triple whammy! I just get stiff after waking up and I have to stretch stretch stretch and limp to the tub and fill it up and just get it as hot as i can stand it so I can start sweating and let the epsom salts draw out all those toxins and relax me a bit. My nurse has just informed me to try sea salt, that it is truly amazing compared to epsom. When I get paid in a few days I will....

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by legaljunky, Dec 02, 2011
Welcome all our new posters, this forum is a life saver!  I don't know any other way to get off Tramadevil than with the info and support of Emily and my beloved Tram fighting partners.  I was on Dr. prescribed Tram for about 2 years and when she took me off it, I got so deathly sick.  I had no idea Tram was addictive, she said it was the pain med that was least likely to be addictive.  So instead of going to her for info, I knew she had no clue, I found all of you wonderful people fighting the fight with me.

I've been on a maintenance dose of Lexapro, Elavil and Clonapin for years because of permanent damage caused by late stage Lyme disease. I imagine they helped me thru WD but it was hell as I tapered and beyond anyway.  I just started exercise- not disciplined like most of you!  I'm walking with Bob Dylan on the treadmill and I'm finally getting my energy back.  I'm expecting my 90 day PAWS and hope it will not be as bad as 30 and 60 were.

I'm getting excited about Christmas, it comes and goes like the hot sweats which are minimal but still with me.  And I am aware that I'm not so #itchy to my husband.  He has put up with a lot for a few months.

Life is getting more and more beautiful this side of Tram!  I sitting in bed, just woke up, with sunlight streaming in on me.  The dog was barking and I went to the window to see the deer in the yard.  Beautiful.  Glorious.  It's the little things that Tram steals from us (and the big things) and I can enjoy them again.

Be strong, fight hard, win this battle and life will come back to you too!
Sending love, acceptance, perseverance and strength for all of us!







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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 02, 2011
I do think Kratom can and should be researched more by the medical community on its use with chronic pain.  Some people have no choice, they have to take pain meds their whole life.  Kratom is legal except in a few countries, one being Thailand where the plant is grown.

  It really does help withdrawals, but it is very expensive and might just be prolonging most of the WDs.  I have some.  For awhile I wasnt taking any tram and just the kratom.  Kratom doesnt mess with your mind as much.  Plus I noticed I wasnt as constipated so I could tell it was weaker than tram. Its not really one of those nodding type of opiates.  I would just order it online.  Google Kratom Pro.  I get the capsules just so I know exactly how much I take.  Its not a life saver, but it is legal and easy to get.  But it doesnt last long and after too much you will get a headache.  I dont think it is possible to OD on it, its an herb.

I have a script for trazadone too.  It doesnt really do much except give me the munchies and stuff up my nose horribly, which then makes it hard to sleep.  I have read that is a common side effect.  I rarely take them, rather take advil PM or something.  I have battled insomnia for as long as I remember.  I dont remember a night in which I didnt take something to help me sleep, besides some binge drinking night which hasnt really happened since I started the tram.  

Those 5 hour energies are nice to drink as soon as you wake up.  Getting out of bed is so damn hard.  If I dont have to work I could lay there until noon.  I dont what it is about the mornings, but thats when the depression is the worst, probably because I hadnt dosed for awhile.  

Mornings and right after work, those are the hardest times dealing with IMO.


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by turkeytrotter, Dec 02, 2011
I have not tried to get my RX like I wanted to...day 13. I ran earlier and was dripping in sweat, hope that means more of this junk has left my body. I slept through the night and did wake up kind of clammy but not as bad as I had been. I am kind of sweating now and cold at same time but not as bad as yesterday....knock on wood, I hope it stays that way or gets better. I am so beyond over this bs.

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by booba77, Dec 02, 2011
Hello everyone.  I have never heard of the kratom.  I agree with you all that in our minds, once we have experienced the withdrawals, we set ourselves up for them to be absolutely horrible.  It is like a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If you keep telling yourself that you are going to experience these things, and stress over it, you will experience them.  It is hard to avoid though.  I guess I will be doing a quick taper and then going cold turkey.  I will have to go home tonight and count my pills and figure up a schedule.  Now that I know the body they found was not my brother, I can move on and try to get off of this horrible stuff, again!

Beenhere-I was on the trazadone for years, and it helped me a great deal with my sleep.  I have really weird dreams on it though.  I gained a lot of weight too.  I can sleep until noon too, which isn't good when you have a 6 year old doing cartwheels on your bed at 7 am Saturday morning.  I never had any luck with the 5 hour energies.  So will you just try to stick to 13 trams or less a day while you are out of the country?  Tapering is so hard i know.  I have never been able to successfully do it.

Sarabie-Good for you on the hot dog diner.  I love a hot dog with mustard and onions.  Nothing beats it.  Denmark sounds like a really neat place to live.  I have lived in the US my entire life, but I did go to Canada on a band trip.  I loved Canada.  It is very beautiful there.

Julius-Sorry to hear you are coming down with a sinus infection.  Those are no fun!  Congrats on your 45 days clean.  That is quite an accomplishment and you should be proud.  I know what you mean about nothing is fun-everything is blah.  I think that and the depression was the main reason for my relapses.  Find Something to do-anything to keep busy.  Even if it is volunteering somewhere, or going to the gym or whatever you love to do.  

Denise-What kind of sea salt did the nurse recomment?  Just regular sea salt, or is it some special kind?  Your story sounds a bit like mine.  I have been on everything at one time or another-I have a self-destructive personality as well.  Now that I have a daughter I have mellowed and calmed down and all I do is the trams, but I can relate to how you feel.  You are in a tough position.  I will be praying for you and please stay on here with us and we can all work together to get our lives back in order.  Mine is a hot mess right now too!

Legaljunky-Congrats on 84 days!  Good for you.  I have been rather #itchy as well-but I think in my case it is a character flaw.....lol.  I am excited about Christmas as well.  I love watching my girl open her stocking and see what santa brought.  My pets love Christmas too.  I cannot wrap a gift without a cat sitting in the middle of the paper or trying to play with the ribbons.

Turkeytrotter-keep the faith-it will get better, I promise.  it just takes time.  

Loopey-Congrats on no brain zaps.  They are the worst.  It is like when you move your eyeball, you can actually hear the movement.  So weird!  God knows what this $*it does to our bodies.  You are doing really well.

Well everyone, I better get back to work.  Only an hour and a half to go.  I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend.  Please post if you need to.  Don't feel bad about blabbing or aimlessly rambling.  We have all done it, we have all been there.  I love this forum.  The support here is absolutely wonderful.  Thank you guys for being here for me.  I will keep you posted on my taper after i formulate a plan.
Booba

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by booba77, Dec 02, 2011
Turkeytrotter-Good for you for not getting the rx filled.  I'm so proud of you.  You are almost over the worst of it, I promise.  Give it a couple more days and the sweats and temps should regulate themselves.  Keep up the running and excercise.  I don't speak from experience, but everyone says it really helps.  Last time I went cold turkey off of 20+ pills a day and I thought I would never stop sweating.  Even sitting still it would be pouring out of me.  It was especially bad at night.  I woke up drenched many times-I guess my spouse thought I was really weird, because I never told him I was on tram or had quit the last time.  Okay guys, I'm really going to get to work this time....lol.

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by denised1982, Dec 02, 2011
booba77, hi and how are you? have you heard any news about your brother? I am on day one and I am and no brain zaps, however, I am sneezing. Better than brain zaps. Better than insomnia. Better than crying my eyes out. Oh and I asked my nurse about the sea salt any particular brand she said it's the white ice cream salt kind, she bought it in a huge box. Its course like ice cream salt. I hope that helps.... Turkeytrotter- you're doing good. I think one time when I was out of my script, I was sweating like I was when I was on the damn things! But before I wasn't much of a sweater. Hope all is well in the warrior community.. I will kept yall posted..
Much love,
Denise

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 02, 2011
Denise, I don't remember sweating while on tram...it only starts when I am without it. I honestly feel like my body is pissed at me because I wont give it any tram and it is trying to punish me.

Good luck with your WDs..hope they don't get too bad for you! Mine have been pretty mild from what I see here but still ever so annoying.

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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 02, 2011
I'm sorry - I'm going to get some slack for this but I have to say it.  And it's parallel to what sarabie's saying....

TAKING drugs to get OFF of drugs is insane.  It doesn't work and most of the time only leads to a new addiction.

Find a way out that doesnt include:  kratom, valium or another opiate.  Or marijuana.  None of these things are a solution.  Only excaberates the problem.  Our addict mind doesn't know the difference (believe me I KNOW what I'm saying here because I've made every mistake possible.)  It's time to get real.  Living life on any mind-altering or controlled substance is NOT living.  And we all know it.  Sorry - but I had to say it.

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by loopey2u, Dec 02, 2011
You're absolutely right Imdone.  

Good luck Denise!!!  Post, post and then post some more if you need to.  I'm really glad you're not getting brain zaps.  Those (to me at least) are scary.  You're doing great!  

You too Turkeytrotter.  I am very proud of you for not getting it filled.  Glad you're not feeling too bad.  

Congrats, Legal!  84 days is a huge accomplishment.

Hey Booba, did you ever get back to work??? lol  Glad that was not your brother.  Stay strong, and I am thinking and praying for you and your family.

Sorry about the sinus infection Julius.  Hope you feel better soon!

53 hours in, no brain zaps, temp. is regulated and I feel GREAT, except I still can't sleep.  Tried to take a nap earlier today, and I laid there for 2 hours and didn't sleep a wink.  Going to try some Benadryl tonight, that usually knocks me out.  God, I hope I sleep tonight.  When I go for days and days with not enough, it really affects my mental state.  



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by Icandothis10, Dec 02, 2011
Julius - How are you feeling?  Try Nyquil, the stuff is gold!  Loopey - Congrats!  I'm so proud of you!

I sweat horribly when I was on Tram.  I am a very cold natured person and I DON'T wear shorts.  I would always change into shorts while I was abusing Tram and would always overheat.  I always felt like my body was an inferno.  Now, when I would stop taking tram, or it would be getting close to my first dose of the day, I'd also start sweating but it would be a different kind of sweat and heated feeling.  I don't know if that makes any sense but all and all, Tram makes me sweat horribly.  Now that I've tapered down from 30 a day to 6,  my body temperature is regulated as it should be and I feel SO much better.  I also less irritable.  Time to drop my dose again.

Denise - Hang in there!  You can do this!


I hope everyone has a good night!  



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by loopey2u, Dec 02, 2011
It makes sense Ican, I was always hot when I was taking it too.  Now it seems I'm back to my "always cold" self.  

Keep up the good work.  With all the pressure you're under you're doing GREAT!!  Pretty soon you'll be free too.  

This is a wicked, wicked drug and the medical profession needs to be more aware of how horrible it is for some people to come off of.  I might write a letter to my congressman about it.  Probably won't get anywhere because I'm not real good with words, but at least I can try.

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 02, 2011
Ican, I am glad Nyquil works for you...It doesn't do a thing for me except jack my blood pressure up...

Loopy, thank you, I am trying to hang in there, surely to God this can't last too much longer....I hope

ImDone, totally agree with you 100%....

I am going to bed now and will wake up tomorrow to see day 14...wish it was 30...sweet dreams!

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by Icandothis10, Dec 02, 2011
Loopey - that's a good idea.   Maybe between all of us, we can pull together a "blanket" letter and all we have to do is change the name on it.  You're absolutely right.  It's terrible.  My sister just got out of the hospital and I asked her what they gave her and she said it "may" have been tramadol.  I made her promise me she would flush them.  I couldn't ever imagine having her go through what I know Tram withdrawals are.

I think we all are really quick to blame the docs.  I think more of the responsibility goes to the creators of the drugs.  The doctors only go by what they're told by the pharmaceutical professionals.  I do think a lot of docs need to learn to listen to their patients more though and not be so quick to dismiss.  It's a vicious cycle and I think that there many more who should be held accountable.  

I can't wait to be off this crap.  I have one more bottle coming and I cannot wait till the point where I don't have to log on and check where the package is etc.  I can't believe what a slave I became to a pill

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by fightorfight, Dec 03, 2011
Loop-  Prozac is metabolized by the same liver enzyme as Tramadol.    Thats why you notice such a big difference in the heady physical WDs (like brain zaps, the extra head room feeling).  That enzyme's activity is blown up disproportionately than regular folk--  As Tram has been using it for however long.   I'm with you, in terms of actual Physical WDs--- its been a completely different thing from going cold turkey with nothing,  I've done both-- and this has been far easier.

I don't want to sully ImDone's post as its a good one--- but I'm of a mind of regulating and staving off Tram WD by any means necessary.    Don't be afraid to ask your (a) doctor for help, there are meds out there that can help short term.   Clonidine, Sleep aids, etc.   Most of which are benign, even a short term Benzo course would help.   It comes back to the medical community becoming aware of how harmful this stuff is--- Tram was supposed to be this golden child of easily prescriptive pain relief that wasn't an NSAID.   We all know it isn't.  There are ways to help yourself, holistically, pharmaceutic-ally, or any combination thereof.  

Having a shoulder to lean on, or a crutch, if you want to call it that, isn't shameful.   Not getting out of the mess that Tram puts you in because of your fear of withdrawal severity---is.    Don't let the prospect of feeling unwell dissuade you from trying to stop, because there are ways to lessen what would otherwise be the roller coaster ride through Hell that we've all been through.    Knowledge is power, and overpowering Tramadol can be done.

Hope everyone is doing well, keep fighting, keep thinking.
FoF



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by loopey2u, Dec 03, 2011
Ican, I agree we are too quick to blame the docs. They are just prescribing meds that the FDA and the pharm.companies have told them are safe and appropriate for our conditions.  
I have nobody to blame but myself this time.  I went off the crap once after being on it 3 weeks, then went on it again after the doctor assured me it was fine and that I just had the flu/was depressed.  I went against my gut and started taking it again.  I'm the a-hole. the 2nd time around.  

You can do this Ican.  You can.

FOF, this time has been a literal cake walk, I'm not even kidding.  Thank God for Prozac.  I need to be on it anyway since I've started having migraines (wonder if it was the tram, never ever had 1 before I started taking this stuff) and my GP said he would have me try Prozac first before we explored other options.  It's like Prozac is a miracle drug.  It does everything!!  lol

You're right about any means necessary too.  As long as it's being monitored by a doc if you've got the potential for abuse.  Otherwise you're just opening another can of worms.  I still have vicoden, muscle relaxers and xanax here, and I am not afraid to use them, but it really looks like I won't have to after 64 hours and no symptoms.  Actually I might use the xanax tonight, because getting to sleep last night was a joke.  I know it will pass, but lack of sleep really screws me up and I can't afford another night of it.  I don't abuse those.  I've got about 30 left from a script of 90 I filled back in March.  Emergency only, I'm not even going there.



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by loopey2u, Dec 03, 2011
Sooooooo, who's up for helping me with the letter???  

I'm not very good getting my point across, too long winded.  FOF, you in?  Maybe we can all send the letter to our local rep.  I plan on keeping up with it too, till I get an answer from him/her.  

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by JULIUS23, Dec 03, 2011
HEY YOU GUYS THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT!!!  IM STILL FIGHTING EVERYDAY AND I WANT LOOK BACK TO DA TRAMADOL DAYS.....dis sinus infection/ sore throat is kicking my butt, i wud give anything for some relief but i do have some theraflu but i think i mite need too get da nyquil... how is everybody doing ??? it feels good to come on here in da morning and see all the new posts by yile.. it helps brightened up my day knowing we are still fighting... Lol, i swear if i sneez one more time my head is going to fall off, i have literally went thru 10 rolls of tissue within the last 2 days omg.... withdrawals is one thing but dis has got to go lol... ITS WAR... STAY STRONG YILE!!!    P.S.  has anyone ever tried 5-HTP ???

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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 03, 2011
FoF I appreciate your words here.  And I respectfully disagree with your take on meds during withdrawal (and I don't mean the non-narcotics or non-controlled meds).

You're telling an addict that it's okay to turn to another controlled substance for relief (sleep aids and benzos are incredibly addictive - I know since I abused xanax long before I began my tram nightmare).

I think the only time meds should be considered during withdrawal is if you are actually in a facility (rehab or hospital) and the Dr.'s are the ones physically dispensing those meds to you in a VERY controlled way and only for a day or a few days.  But to be given them on our own, if home while detoxing, is a recipe for disaster.  That's all I'm saying.  But I respect that we all have our own opinion.

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by Sarabie, Dec 03, 2011
I think it's a very good idea to write your congresman. It probably won't change anything, but there need to be more focus on tramadol. They can't keep saying it's a "new" drug. Unfortunately "money talks". And the med industry along with the weapon industry is the world rulers. Especially in the States.

Having an addict personality... I didn't. Never did any drugs and didn't want morphine at the hospital, cause I hate loosing control. But I was in pain and got addicted to "not being in pain". It was already too late, when I found out I couldn't function without tram - so tramadol created a need I didn't have untill I got tramadol. My point being that I think everyone in the whole world will develop an addict personality if they are prescribed tramadol for a couple of years. But we mustn't forget the thousands of people who get's tramadol for a very short period, are liberated from their pain and continue their daily lives without tram. That's how it should be. Tramadol shouldn't be prescribed for long term use. And it shouldn't be possible to order it online in the perfect world. But again, money talks.

Well, Christmas time... I made an elf village with little houses, elfs, snow etc yesterday. And made christmas cookies. Today I'll write on my novel, ligth a bunch of tea candles and listen to my favourite music while I stuff myself with candy and coca cola. I'll be as fat as a Christmas goose within the 24th :-D

Love, Susie



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by legaljunky, Dec 03, 2011
HI JULIUS-  Look into 5HTP, I did when I was tapering and found that when taking other stuff (I've been on low dose Clonapin, Elavil and Lexapro for 10 years or so) it can cause Seratonin Syndrome. (You want to or do commit suicide.)  I decided not to use it when I was tapering or ever.

Loopey- I want in on the letter, I also do not blame my Dr. for putting me on Tram.

Fightorfight- You seem to be the most knowledgeable and clearest thinking writer among us at the moment, and I guess you are from the US, are up for writing us a letter?

I've had the sinus/sore throat head cold thing for about a month now too.  And yesterday I felt awful, couldn't think, slept a lot but this far out I guess mine is not Tramadevil related. So many people seem to have it.

Love ant strength to all of us!



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by denised1982, Dec 03, 2011
julius--- I would warn you not to take 5-HTP if you're on ANY anti-depressant, because I believe since its being a tryptophan, and that acts on your serotonin receptors, it could cause serotonin syndrome, a possibly fatal syndrome. It causes all kinds of sh!t to your heart, from afib'ing to hypertension. We don't want anyone stroking out up in here! Also, again, if you're taking anti-depressants, don't try st. john's wort. My sister has taken it with anti-psychotics, she may have been on and anti-depressant, hell I dunno.. her crazy ***... lol... luckily nothing has happened to her yet. My advice, don't mix too many herbs/supplements with pharmaceuticals. If you wind up in the ER, and the docs in the US are usually not educated on herbal supplements enough to know how they interact with different drugs, and of course they're going to give you something in the ER to address the symptom of why you're in the ER, and can cause for a deadly combo. So, that being said, I beg of you, proceed with caution.

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by denised1982, Dec 03, 2011
Well, if it weren't for these drugs.. I guess I'll be out of a job too! Lol!  I am so tired of it anyway. Need a break after 5 years. Maybe I can get workers comp and chill for a while. Sleeping is a hobby of mine, and maybe I can pick up another hobby while hunting for a job. I get burned out so easily. You should see my resume. It consists of only four jobs, and they all have multiple dates of hire. I get pissed off and put in my two week notice, hell this last job I walked out on after a year of working there....and they hired me back! Ive been there since. I quit because I was tired of hurting, I was a hot mess, doing various drugs, had easy access to them because my boyfriend at the time was dealing them out, and I was tired of paying all the bills. I broke up with him and walked out on the job. My dumb@ss got back with the boyfriend, got back on the job. I'm a hot headed italian/irish/indian/hispanic. I once almost kicked a 14 year old boys a$$ a few months ago, complete stranger.. I was leaving my apartment to go to work, and this big mob of kids walked up and this dumbsh!t thought it would be cute to smack the back of my trunk as hard as he could. He saw I was a female, but he didn't think my f@t@ss would immediately throw the car in park and jump out the car and proceed to run after him. I was screaming and cussing and there were a lot of witnesses, not just the kids. I just snapped. If one of the girls in the group didn't stop me saying "I'm so sorry, it was a stupid thing he did, I know, but he's just 14." I KNOW I'd have snatched his *** up and grabbed a switch from the bush and just beat the underside of his legs until he cried in front of all his friends. That's how tramadol made me. Sometimes I was happy as long as I was high enough, other times, I was just pissed off, depressed, anxious, stressed out, so I took more. Another reason why I stopped was because the car door was open and keys were in the ignition, running, and a mob of kids. Didn't wanna get the d@mn thing stolen. I called my sister, I was still yelling and I told her what that punk @ss did, and what I did, and she friggin laughed her a$$ off... called up my whole fam damily and told them what I did. They all thought it was funny, because they know my crazy a$$ is warped. I was just thinking about that incident today. I stop and laugh about it because I reacted like a damn fool, yet it was funny, no one got ran over, and I didn't go to jail! "You don't **** with a mans automobile!!!"--John Travolta, Pulp Fiction... Another funny thing happened to me.. My fiance has been saying a hundred times how he wants this big "Griswold family Christmas!" My fiance brings in this HUGE live Christmas tree I'm not kidding it is 9 feet tall in my apartment,  the tree is just over the top, he went all Clark Griswold on me, he cuts the mesh or whatever they have it wrapped up in, and the tree blew up, broke our bookshelf (thanks, China, for your quality and craftsmanship) knocked everything off the shelf, pine needles flew everywhere! It almost broke our new TV! Just missed it! LOL all I could say was, "You wanted the Griswold family Christmas, YOU GOT IT!!! Lots of sap..... A lot of sap!!!!!" I'm doing good today, I just wanted to fight someone on my way home from work as they were riding my @$$... I thought about pulling over and jumping out the car. It was a dude. I just sped up to like 70 going thru sharp turns.. He got the point and slowed down... So I felt better. I hate it when my "space" gets invaded. Thank God I don't have a handgun, and PMS right now.

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 03, 2011
ImDONE - A common saying is dont replace one addiction for another.  However, like FoF mentioned, benzos can be very valuable during a withdrawal, anxiety is a monster and could lead you into making harsh decisions.  I mentioned Kratom, not as a withdrawal tool, although it could be if used responsibly, but as a natural alternative for people that HAVE to take pain pills everyday.  Some people dont have a choice, they have conditions that cause continual pain, and without meds their quality of life *****.  Oh and for weed, I would recommend it at night.  Helps you fall asleep.  I am not a pot head but I did use some after about the first 10 days or so.  It is a non-addicting sleep aid, it just ***** that is has to be illegal.  I have no problem with pot, I have never craved it, but if it works just as well as ambien or valium to sleep, I would say pot is going to be better for you.

I went through a Valium WD and it sucked, however I just used it to sleep, so I didnt really crave it anymore.  Tram on the hand is used during the day to get things accomplished, at night to keep boredom away, during rough times to ease up the depression.  Opiate addiction is by far the largest addiction in the US.  You cant go to work drunk off your a$$ or even after taking too much Valium or Xanax, but you can after taking some tram, Vicodin, oxy, etc.  

I think tram isn't considered a narcotic for two main reasons:
1.) its a synthetic opiate
2.) because the body adapts to it so quickly, its use for recreational abuse diminishes because eventually you would    have to take so much that you will have seizures.

Not sure if we can really blame the docs or the makers of tram.  

When we popped those pills and got that feeling that you commonly get with other opiates, you have to realize this is probably not as good as it seems.  Now, I dont think any of us really knew what tram did to us and how bad the WDs really are, you figure if its a light opiate that it would be a light WD.....WRONG.  

Most people say they would rather go through Percocet or Vicodin withdrawals over Tramadol.  I have even heard Tramadol WDs are worse than Oxy WDs, matter of opinion and use but the WDs are worse than what one would expect.  However, when I took three the very first time I sure didn't expect to get that wonderful opiate feeling that lasted all day.

Most of us are addicts, but not to the point where we are out breaking the law to get our fix.  We just happened to stumble across a drug that is legal and easy to obtain.  Once it becomes a narcotic, I imagine most of us will end up having to stop, and never look back.  Its a lot easier to get over it when you know you cant get it even if you wanted to.  Its knowing that you can get it overnight that causes so many to relapse.

Today was my first day of training, and I already knocked out one of the six exams.  I am trying to get this exams done quick because like I said, I didnt pack enough tramadol for a slow taper.  I imagine by the end of the training I am going to feel like crap and wont want anything to do with it.

I am going to see if you an ship stuff from the US to Dubai, I told my mother about my problem so she is helping me get the meds for the taper.  I want to see if she can send it DHL.  

Has anyone heard about using Wellbutrin to combat WDs?  I know it is used to stop smoking and is considered an anti-depressant.  Seems like its a bit different than your normal class of SSRIs.  I have 30 back in Afghan, but I take lexapro right now so I am not going to take that as well.

TurkeyTrotter - congrats on avoiding to get the refill.  I know how frustrating the lack of sleep is.  Benadryl is what docs recommend if you have to take something, however if you have restless legs it will make it worse.  Nyquil works the best for me, but also leaves me groggy.

The sweating is a bit strange, tram must speed you up somehow.  Sweating from WDs *****, when you feel it around the collar of your shirt, the forehead.....so uncomfortable.

Booba - how in the heck did you quit a 20 pill a day habit CT and your spouse not notice?  Thats crazy to keep that all a secret from your husband.  When I went CT after a 12 a day habit I had to have my GF come over just to have someone to talk to, then I made her leave because I started feeling like I was going to puke.

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by denised1982, Dec 03, 2011
I myself cant smoke the mary jane.. I get pain, depression, paranoia, and my heart beats out my chest. I felt like I was gonna DIE the last time I smoked. I couldn't move. It was just one hit! When I was talking about legal fake pot, I was referring to "Spice". It acts on the THC receptors like pot, only it's legal, and (at least for me) it's not quite as strong and the legal high is not as long. I have no desire for pot, or kratom, or valium, or hydrocodone, oxycodone, coke, extacy, acid,  or anything else. My drug of choice was ultram, like everyone else was here. If you even follow the "Thomas recipe", the 1st rule of the protocol was valium, or another benzo of choice. Yes, I know you shouldn't use a narc to get off a drug, but I am a person who greatly believes in sleep and relaxation, and when I'm WDing off a drug, which I never experience a WD before in my life because I am considered a "non dependent drug abuse", it's on my diagnosis sheet,along with GAD w/depressed mood,  Im not too proud to pop a valium if I can get access to one. Especially if it is for therapeutic use, not abuse. There is a difference. If you get out of the stranglehold by yourself, well I tip my hat off to you. You is one bad @$$ mofo. I, forever, have a lower threshold of pain, have a physically enduring job, and I need all the rest and relaxation I can get. I am too quick to snap if something goes unbalanced. Since I have been put on the AD's, it really does wonders. I highly recommend something like that, unless you continue to use, then you have to watch what you mix with the AD's. It can put you in the ER or in the grave. I know that you're heart was in the right place when you posted what you posted, but it was executed in a demeaning manner. We're all trying to support each other in this room, not be pushed upon what is right and what is wrong, but rather share our experiences. We all have to find our own way of dealing with this, and if it's to take a narc if we're in that much pain, or pop a benzo when we have RLS and insomnia, then by all means, do it, but use caution. I am not scared of getting addicted because I don't have it in my desires to do so, and I only took a lortab now and then and stretch them out as much as I could and saved them for when I couldn't stand the pain like I always have, and I'm not about to martyr myself when it comes to not sleeping and feeling like sh!t and crying and having suicidal ideations. We all gotta find our way, and I don't need  anyone trying to judge me for my past or press on with what I should do or what I shouldn't do with my life. God grants us free will and he is the ultimate judge. I'll deal with what I can a day at a time, until I get to the pearly gates and deal with Him judging me. No offense. Like I said, we're all dealing with this our own way, one step at a time. I know you're not wrong either and I'm not saying you're wrong. You've hit the nail on the head! It just came across so demeaning, so harsh.  If you are to disagree with my thoughts, which I know you will, that is fine.

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 03, 2011
Beenhere, if I ever got high off Tram, I must have missed it...all I ever felt was the need to lay down but even that stopped after a while...and then I'd feel nothing. Sometimes I'd take a tram for pain and then wonder is it even doing anything because I sure don't feel a difference. I slept great last night, think I may have went into a coma!

I don't have the restless leg thing anymore, think that lasted about 5 days...even that didn't bug me or the lack of sleep as bad as the sweating...

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by denised1982, Dec 03, 2011
Been here - Try the wellbutrin. The doc put me on celexa, which is very close to lexapro, it's just older and comes in a generic form and is 4 bucks at walmart. The celexa helped, and I'm sure the buproprion would help too. I would just start out with half a pill for lets say 10 days or while you're on the taper or at least 10 days, and then from there do the full dose. I did that and I didn't die, my doc said it would be okay to cut the trams in half and he handed me 5 pills of celexa 20 mg, cut in half for 10 days. I was almost out of trams when I went to the doctor and wasn't taking as much and was experiencing the highs and lows of withdrawals, just not the horrific pain and brain zaps that I normally get. I am still in pain, but not like I was, there's better days than others. I have a friend who is a few months younger than me. He has had gosh, at least 4 to 5 back surgeries, and is prescribed a nice cocktail of opana and oxycontin along with zanaflex, a bp med, elivil, valium, soma, xanax. He is still in pain. He preaches about the more you take the pain meds, the more pain you get. He is so right. I know because of the trams. I still hurt when I was on them. I had to take like 15 or sometimes even more because I lost count sometimes.  I feel bad for him because he is so young and is probably going to have his life cut short, the stronger the pain meds, the greater the chance of dying.

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by denised1982, Dec 03, 2011
Been here-- just out of curiosity, how many trams are you taking? when I started the celexa, I still took 4 trams (50mgs) for 5 days with the half of celexa. In about 4 days I will be on my full dose of Celexa (20mg). Maybe consult with a pharmacist on that one.  They seem to know more about the drugs than doctors!

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by denised1982, Dec 03, 2011
This blog is addictive.


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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 03, 2011
I never meant to be demeaning nor harsh.  I've been here for a long time and that has never been my style.  Just sharing my experience that's all.  And my opinion.

I will continue to wish all of you success (that's just my style too).  :)

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by denised1982, Dec 03, 2011
ok, im sorry... :)

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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 03, 2011
It's okay - no apology necessary!  :)

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by denised1982, Dec 03, 2011
my arse is crazy but i have a big heart. its like my family, we fight like hell but we love like hell too! just my style too! ;)

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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 03, 2011
Oh my goodness don't hget me started on the family dynamic you have!!  lol  I get it - mine too.  Keeps things interesting and keeps us learning.  So it's all good.  :)

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by denised1982, Dec 03, 2011
hahaha... I love it... Yeah.. I will keep posting as I consult my dad (Rph) and the doctor for advice on how not to keel over.

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by denised1982, Dec 03, 2011
oh and my nurse's advice too!

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by denised1982, Dec 03, 2011
Life is an interesting journey, you never know where it will take you...Peaks and valleys, twists and turns. You can get the surprise of your life. Sometimes when you get to where you going you might think, this is the worse time of my life, but you know what, at the end of the road thru all the adversity you can get to where you wanted to be. You remember what don't kill you make you stronger and all the adversity that you worship. On your way to the top, you'll do anything. But how do you get your life back when you get there...Yeah...That's my delimma...Im done, I got myself here I can get myself out!!! - T.I.


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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 03, 2011
Of course you can - we all can we just have to believe in ourselves.  That where I needed to start and it's working... some days harder than others.. but I'm pretty sure it's working!

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 03, 2011
Would it be so bad for me to go back to sleep and put my run off till this afternoon....I should run now but really would rather sleep....

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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 03, 2011
Sleep!!  If there was ever a time to listen to your body, tt, it would be now.  Now go back to sleep and enjoy the rest.  :)

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by loopey2u, Dec 03, 2011
Been Here, Wellbutrin is a SSNI.  We have some of that here too from when my husband was going to quit smoking and I was going to take that in addition to the Prozac if I needed it.  Just a half a pil of the Wellbutrin, too scared to mix the whole pill with the Prozac.  It might help, but I think (just from my experience) that you'd be much better off with the Prozac.

This blog IS addicting, and I keep looking for a "like" button like on Facebook.  Wish there was one.

FOF, if you're interested in the letter that would be GREAT!  I agree with whoever said you are the most articulate person on the blog, and your style of writing would catch the reps attention for sure.

Have a great day everybody!  I got a kindle fire last night, after selling a bunch of junk on ebay and I need to really play with it.  I love it, and if any of you were thinking about getting one get it.  You will not be disappointed.

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 03, 2011
So the first time I was taking tram, I got up to 12-15 every night after work.  I did that for about 5-6 months.  I didnt know much about the WDs, and since the next day I didnt feel bad I figured I wasnt too addicted.  I didnt realize it isnt until day 3 when it usually kicks in.  So I went CT on a Monday, went to work & the gym on Tuesday, felt fine.  Tuesday nIght I couldnt sleep, although I felt fine.  So I went to work on zero sleep come Wed, I ended up leaving around 9:30 because I was just out of it.  
The anxiety really kicked in around noon, when I started reading about withdrawals on the net.  It was really tough, I remember trying to book psychiatrist appointments for that day, I thought I was going crazy.  I just paced, took at least 4 walks around my neighborhood.  I had to shower 5 times that day.  I went to bed at 8pm and actually slept some, I took Thursday off from work too.  I felt much better on Thurs than I did on Weds, probably because of the sleep.

I didnt really have any major underlying depression, so I was depressed but I got over it.  I didnt really take anything during the WDs, I had the thomas recipe stuff but it didnt do much for me.  I went to work and the gym on Friday, although I didnt feel like doing anything.  I actually even made it to the gym Saturday morning.on zero sleep.  I went to a movie that night with my GF.  
At that point the physical stuff was gone, I just wasnt sleeping.  I was dreading the nights, "am I going to sleep?"  I was making it worse by thinking about it.  I did all the "sleep hygiene" stuff, and it worked but it took about 10 days until I was able to sleep normal.

What followed next was sheer boredom.  I didnt want to do anything or see anyone.  I was a pissy person who saw nothing positive in my life.  However, the whole time I had a bottle of 180 pills and never took one.  

I finally relapsed in 3 weeks.  I took some one night and swore I would wait at least 4 days before taking it again.   However, that doesnt work and all you do is think about when that next day is going to come.  Eventually it caught me again, hooked.  I felt like sh*t because I let it happen again.  This time was when my tram addiction changed my course in life.

To make a long story short, while I was high on tram, I took a job overseas.  I had done overseas work in the past, but there is no way I would of taken this gig if it wasnt for the tram and the whole "everything is perfect and will workout" mentality it gave me.  I didnt even talk to my GF about the idea, I just told her I was leaving again.  I put my house up for sale and left.

I landed in my new middle eastern country and WHAM, I realized WTF I just did.  I was put up in a hotel the first 30 days.  The first two days I had off from work, I barely got out of bed.  I was so depressed that I gave up everything that I was almost suicidal.  I left a high paying job in the US for a job that paid a little more but was in an expensive area, plus it was the middle east.  At that point I said, well I am over here, maybe I should go back to Iraq.  At least there I will make the big bucks.  I just didnt want tram to play any part, and I knew I couldnt be on it when i went there.  So I cut it down using just kratom and adderall.  I think I had about 5 days without any Kratom, I was just taking my prescription of Adderall during the day but it was killing my stomach.  However, I wasnt taking any opiates.  

I got an offer for Iraq, but it was living in a small room with a roommate and working 6 12 hour days a week.  I knew I couldnt handle that while just getting off the drugs.  So I rejected it.

We had a work dinner that same week and just to be social I took some Kratom before I went.  It hit me pretty hard since i hadnt taken any in 5-6 days.  Thats when I started taking Kratom everyday, and every now and then I would get a bottle of tram.  I was using it now to cover up depression and have been ever since.  Using it daily throughout the day, it was no longer used for fun, it was used to self medicate.

The bad part is now I am up to 20+ a day, and I am in Afghanistan.  Its not easy getting meds over here.  The good news is come Feb it will be one year and I will get the overseas tax break. basically the first $93k you make is not taxed, so it turns out to be a big chunk of change.  The end of this deployment is in sight, but I told myself I would not go back to the US until I was clean....

So thats my story, its a crappy one.  Probably close to one of the worst on the board.  

Denised - you're right, its ok to take some prescription meds to get off this crap.  Whether its clonidine, valium, weed, whatever.  As long as you take it responsibly, it wont turn into another addiction.  I have a stockpile of crap I have ordered off the net to prepare for a CT WD.  I never really planned on tapering.  I have valium, clonidine, pure kava kava extracts, lyrica, neutronin, wellbutrin, immodium, phenibut, kratom, codiene (well I did have some....), modalert, I cant think of any more.  Plus the GABA, Tyrosine, and the rest of the Thomas Recipe.  

I think the biggest factor in beating it is figuring out why you abused it in the first place?  I think you have to let someone close to you know whats going on, its too big to hide.  You need to be mentally strong so make sure you are in a good environment during the WD.  Most importantly, until tramadol becomes illegal and you cant get it online anymore, you are going to have to battle your urges.  Your going to feel like Negative Nellly all the time.  Its tough to laugh and smile without faking it.  Your not an emotional wreck like you were during the WDs but you feel dead.  This is tough to handle, and I dont have an answer because I relapsed.  I think professional help would of been handy. I think NA meetings would of been helpful.  

I just wish they would ban it online so we wouldnt be so damn tempted to keep ordering it...



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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 03, 2011
beenhere  - that is exactly what I'm talking about.

You wouldn't have made those decisions if you weren't high on tram.  Which is exactly why I don't think taking another narc or controlled substance is the way to go.  I'm sorry - I can't help it.  I've been down this road so many times and it makes me crazy when people get angry at me for feeling the way I do.  Taking ANY drug, unless you're in serious awful pain and can NOT live without some kind of med, it's just not the way to go.  Tram screwed me up so bad - made me think what I was doing was the RIGHT thing to do - and it was all a lie.  It lied to me and it's lying to all of us.

So okay everyone - let me have it.  I'm a big girl and I can take it.  An.  And come on everyone - trying to take another drug to get off this drug is screwed up.  If we had that kind of discipline we wouldn't be here.  Come on - is it just me?  When are we finally going to get REAL and realize that these drugs are bad.  NO - taking another drug to get off a drug is a bad idea most of the time.  So I am no longer going to worry if my words aren't taken the way I want them to be - addiction IS addiction - or tolerance or dependence or whatever you want to call it.  If you can't STOP then you have a problem.  And PLEASE don't misunderstand me - I know we staretd this stuff because we were in pain.  But here we are - wring to each other about how to get off this shi*t   Enough already.  (it's okay I'll be the bad guy - I'm okay with that).

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by Sarabie, Dec 03, 2011
Well we are all different and therefore we can't just do as our fellowman did when quitting tram. ImDONE and I both went CT from high doses and neither of us used other drugs. And because of that, I sometimes have to remind myself, that just because I could do it that way, doesn't mean that anyone else can. When I first came to this forum I couldn't see any point in doing a taper and thought to myself that it was the addicts way of "quitting another day". Then I read all the posts, posted myself and realized how different we are. I still believe as I posted earlier, that it's a fall back to use other drugs to come off a drug. But who am I to judge or to tell people what is right for them? We don't even react the same way on trams. Denise get's agressive, Turkey get's sleepy, I got lazy and stupid, some get's energy, some get high, others can't feel a thing. So of course we don't react the same way getting off the poison either. We can learn from each other, listen to each other and compare. But each of us have to find his or hers own way.

Love, Susie

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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 03, 2011
Wow Susie - you are the diplomat.

To each his own. Only I cannot tell you how many stories I read of those tryint to get of a drug by taking another controlled drug only to show up with a new addiction.  That's all I'm saying and enough said.

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by vicki595, Dec 03, 2011
I'll tell you what I think even though no one has asked. LOL...

If you taper the drug (no matter what it is) this problem wouldn't exsist.  A long,slow taper with the offending drug is completely doable. There are minimal withdrawal symptoms negating the need for "comfort" drugs like kratom,a benzo, a barb, pot, alcohol,etc...

Many say they can't taper and that's a defeatist attitude. Anyone can. We just want it "easy". It's not easy at all. A cure or a treatment is often difficult no matter if it's addiction,infection,or confusion!  We just like to take pills and when we don't feel well (withdrawal) we think we should take a pill/drug until we feel better. I can't say that it's wrong to do that but it's a little silly...

Good luck everyone!

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 03, 2011
I went back to sleep like I wanted, don't even think a minute went by before I was out...when I woke up, I ran two miles....

vicki, had I known I was in WD or could go into them I would have tapered...I was forced into a CT because I ran out of them. It took me a week to realize what was going on...thought I was just sick with a cold. I re-read the journal I keep and noticed I had gotten sick two times before when I stopped tram or ran out (forgot to call in RX when I was supposed to). Now, tomorrow is day 15 so kind of too late to taper now....

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by denised1982, Dec 03, 2011
Oh vicki, I wish I would've done a taper but I'd've taken all my damn pills! If I would have done a slow taper, I would have gotten up one day and say, "Oh sh*t my legs/back/hurts, I'm on my period and have cramps, etc." It would have taken me 8 months to do a slow taper, if I actually stuck to it. The fact of the matter is, I DO have a defeatist attitude, I always have. I have Depression. Hell, I might even be bipolar or worse because of all the stuff I have done.

Honest to goodness, what made me make that call to therapy, was deep down I knew I was destroying my relationship with my fiance popping off and going crazy, and he has a 5 year old son whom he has full custody of, because the woman who mothered his child (or I should say vagina having thing, because she ain't no woman, imo)was popping vicodin 30 at one time! She would put THIRTY in her mouth and CHEW them up! That's some gangsta a$$ sheit!!!!!!! Anyhow, he gained full custody of his son. My fiance loves me and I felt maybe our relationship would get better if I wasn't such a crazy b!tch! Plus, his son loves me so much, and I am the mom. His biological mother used to leave him (as a baby) by himself in a carseat at the house when she was "supposed" to be watching him when my fiance was at work. Needless to say he wound up in the hospital deathly ill. When she was fed up, she left all together when his son was 10 months old. If I ever see her, and she's over 6 feet tall, I got a good ole fashioned southern @ss whoopin fer her! What a f*ckin stupid a$$, inbred, dumb@ss, buffalo pu$$y havin, filthy, stinkin piece of s#!t @ss cvnt. She is a habitual liar to this day. I will probably never see her, or not for a long time, because he has not seen her in a few years. He can't trust her. She even stole 10k from his grandmother. I don't want him to ever experience anything like that again. I don't ever want to be like her. I don't even want to remind him of her, in any way, shape, or form. Ever! I had to quit!

These trams, at first, they used to work. I felt great, sweated my @ss off, had a bolt of energy, could get work done, had euphoria, and I was nice. I loved everybody, and I couldn't have an orgasm. I was rollin on some extacy, legal extacy. I felt just like I was on it. Only difference was I wasn't chattering my teeth together or had to have a vick's inhaler and I was not rubbing all over myself.. (at least not all the time! heh) Yet, I really rationalized somehow it was safe to take. I should have KNOWN then and there if I LIKED the buzz, it was time to stop... but I went from taking 2 per day to 15+ over the course of over 2 years...

I knew I had a problem a few months into taking it. I was still in excruciating pain.  I went from taking it from work to ordering it online. That was it for me.

I was ashamed to ever want to get help, and I think that was why I took it for so long. I did not want the doctor to know I have a drug problem. I was blubbering crying to the doctor. I'm so glad he said, "I am glad you told me what is going on. Most people don't come clean and we get sent  down different treatment plans, and the problems just keep getting worse. It's okay. Do you honestly believe you're the only one with this problem? Do you think that I myself have never done stupid stuff when I was younger. Whatever you tell me stays in these walls." I knew then I had a doc that actually gave a sh!t about actually helping me. I felt better just getting it out. There was no judgment.

Everyone, take care of yourselves. I wish you all the best, thoughts and prayers with all y'all.

Love, Denise :)


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by fightorfight, Dec 04, 2011
Evening guys and gals,

ImDONE- I remember you from my first WD, and getting solid, stoic, advice from you. I in no way meant to place any sort of disdain on what you wrote or what your opinion is on the matter of getting off Tramadol.   I don't consider your opinion wrong or unsound, or that you personally are a Bad Guy, or Girl (or Lady if that isn't respectful enough).  I understand that this is a giant amalgam of people's experiences with the drug, be it through matters of legitimate pain prescriptions, or for people who have used it as an anti-depressant and self-medicate accordingly.  

All I wanted to say is that there are countermeasures to Tramadol, chemically.    Anyone who got locked into year contracts with this drug---by whatever means--should know that help is out there.   I'd be remiss to say that there isn't.   Hope is something we all desperately need coming off this drug.    Hope doesn't come in pill form, this I know-- But Information about safe medical help can bolster the idea.    I agree that addictions are born out of the compulsion to distort reality, and recovery from that and this is something that requires a patience and guidance above and beyond getting off Tramadol.     The US medical reality being what it is, however, there are people here who suffer without that compulsion-- being prescribed dose after dose by a doctor who didn't know any better.

Sure, there are members here, and have been since its inception who got on this particular ride out of its usage recreationally-- and while I've been on both sides of the fence-- I can say that being "kind and gentle to yourself" works.   How that itself can be made manifest, I believe is where we differ, but only slightly.    Addiction be it to this or other medications is a difficult beast to acknowledge, and harder still to treat.  

I respect your stance on this and your posts throughout this journal, and I hope that everyone here takes specific note of them as they read.    I admire your candor, and I hope that everyone else here does as well.  We're all on the same side of the road and I'd woefully regret causing any sort of dissent by saying what I have.    

Please don't consider yourself an outsider in a place that you should comfortably call home.   Stick with us, and keep helping us.

FoF

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by Gizmok, Dec 04, 2011
Hi guys, I'm not sure if any of you remember me, I stopped taking tram a couple of months ago or a month I can't remember. I am so thankful for the support of this forum, reading your posts got me through some really hard times.
With that said, I am going to give me two cents on withdraw.... Okay I have withdrawn ct from opiates and from tramahell, I would take detoxing from opiates over the tramadol any day of the week.  I was on opiates (pretty strong doses of morphine and oxycodone) I had been on them for about 4 years due to some major pain problems that I have. After 4 years I started doing some research and found that taking opiates for long periods of time can actually increase your pain, because the body wants the opiate, so it manufactures any little reason to take it. I decided to stop taking it ct, because I wanted to see what my baseline was, my pain level without any pain meds. I did not take anything for 5 or 6 months, and at the end of that time I was in so much pain I could hardly walk, let alone function at all, it hurt soooo bad. So the dr suggested tramadol.... Yeah... Needless to say, he told me it was not addictive and there would be no withdraw, I did no research on the drug and just took his word for it.  He gave me a ton with three refills I took them in earnest. It was like taking an opiate and adderall at the same time for me. I had energy, I had that rush, I felt great. I knew it was bad, but I stayed on them till all three refills were gone. I figured no big deal I can just get it refilled in a couple of days, no withdraw right... The next day I woke up and thought I had the plague. I was sooooooooooo sick. I thought I had the flu no big deal waited three days was still feeling like crap so I asked my mom to pick up my prescription for me, she brought it over I took two for my headache and within 30min I was feeling great. CRAP.... I stopped taking it 4 days later ct. I could never taper because I am an addict, those pills would have been gone in a day.
When I detoxed from opiates, I used clonidine and lorazepam, the clonidine was a miracle drug for me, I slept through the whole detox. When I detoxed from the trams, I took nothing because I did not realize right away that I was detoxing and figured if I had made it that far without anything I could make it.
I see nothing wrong with taking clonidine for withdraw, it is a non-addicting BP med, and it is the best thing in the world for withdraw. The drs prescribed me these medications and knew I would become addicted, and they helped me when I wanted to detox. I did not "DO" this to myself, so why should I have to suffer even more trying to get off them. The lorazepam I have always taken for anxiety (bad anxiety), and for some reason I have never had an addiction problem with them, my drug of choice was and is opiates.
Unfortunately I am back on a small dose of opiate pain meds again until my surgery (my 8th surgery) yay me.
I have a reason to be taking them, but I feel so bad taking them. I cried in the drs office (and I am a grown woman), when he told me that we had tried everything else and this was the only relief he could offer till then. I have not posted on here lately because, I guess I'm embarrassed about having to take a narcotic for my pain. I feel like that makes me weak, because I could not handle the pain on my own. I know tons of people probably deal with worse pain than I do on a daily basis, and I could not take it on my own. My dr is holding me accountable, and I'm glad, I do bi-weekly urine tests and random pill counts. My husband also keeps an eye on what I take because he knows how hard it was for me the first time, and bless him, even though we are getting a divorce he still cares.
I wish everyone here peace and harmony in. Their lives, keep up the fight. Thank you guys for "listening" to my long winded post.
<3 me

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 04, 2011
I dont think you can say I was stronger because I went CT, I think its actually harder to taper.  Tapering is going to physicaly be a walk in the park compared to CT, but you have to be disciplined for a long time.  And I think you learn during that tapering cycle how to adjust without the drug.  You are not getting the high from it, your just not getting the WDs.  Every doctor is going to say a taper is the best way.

I beat this CT once, and I didnt take the xanax I had or anything else, I got to this point that I didnt want to take ANY pills.  However, I also had a job that I could call in sick two days in a row without worrying about how that looks.  I worked at a big corporation so during the days I could manage to skim by without doing anything.  However, not everyone has that situation.

Now I work 6 days a week with 3 people in the middle east.  I cant just go CT while I am here, I would get kicked out of this place.  No way you can hide it when you have stuff to do everyday.  

The main goal is to get off the drug, how you do that is up to you.  The real problem is that I would say most of us are addicts, and we are always going to be susceptible to relapsing.  Sure you might be at Day 15 of CT now and say "no way will I ever go through that again!!"  Thats what I said, and here I am, relapsed after 3 weeks.  

Personally, I am not embarrassed anymore that this got me, and I am more than willing to seek professional help to deal with it.  I am not going to announce to the world that I got hooked on this, but you shouldnt get too down on yourself for being addicted.

For the ones on here that get prescriptions, tell your doctor, have him create a REALISTIC taper plan.  If he knows you are really trying he will get you the clonidine and something to help you sleep.  

When you order it online, probably the best way to taper is to give your stash to someone who you can really trust, someone that wants you to get better and really understands the situation.  Give them your taper schedule and they will handle your pills.  This is obviously difficult because unless its your wife/husband, who is going to be around enough and what happens if they cant get you the dosage because of some unforeseen circumstance.

Its funny that there was a debate on using a drug to get off a drug.  Tramadol is very popular with the oxy addicts because it kills their WDs when they run out.  Thats how I found out about it, a guy i know is addicted to Oxy and he uses tram when he runs out.  He doesnt get anything from it, but it helps his withdrawals.  A lot of them think tram is a lifesaver because of this.

I have read a lot of stories about methadone and suboxone(spelling?).  Methadone seems to have a very bad rep but sub has really helped a lot of people at least become functional again.  Granted, I heard coming off both of these is horrible because it can take weeks for the physical WDs to go away, but it doesnt get them high and they can get their life back on track.  I have heard the methadone clinics do drug tests before giving it to you, and they actually test for tram.

I had to have my mom FEDEX tram to me in Dubai because I didnt bring enough, I must of been high when I was packing...  I told her about my problem so she is trying to help with the taper process.  She ordered some but I think she got them from an Indian website, it took a week or two and she said they came in blister packs.  I really hope they are legit, or I will be forced into a rapid taper that is going to be real hard to deal with during this training.  I dont get them till the middle of the week if they make it through customs ok.

Taper vs. CT - just dont lie to yourself.  You know if you have the power to taper.  If you can taper than do it.  Its going to be the better overall route and will ease you into life without tram.  If you know tapering isnt going to work, then set a date for CT WDs.  Make sure you get all the supplements to help, prepare meals before you start (you will not want to do anything), and stock up and groceries.  And if possible, talk to your doc about your issue.  Setup some meetings with a therapist, even if you could meet on day 3 or 4 of your withdrawal would help.  I talked to one on Day 4 and it felt good letting it all out. I dont care who you are, you are emotionally fragile at that stage.  I still think getting some weed for sleeping is good.  Its better than valium, xanax, ambien, etc.  The OTC stuff doesnt really work for me.  Plus, if your not a pothead I doubt you are going to become one.  It just isnt one of those drugs.  

I have the biggest headache, cramming for a test all day that I take tomorrow.  2 tests in 3 days, if I can pass it, it would be a credible feat. However, I would still have 4 more to go before the 19th....





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by denised1982, Dec 04, 2011
Been Here.. good luck with your test. :) Is there anyway she could fedex you a few prozac? Maybe find some clonidine? Can you see a medic over there that you're cool with? My bro in law works in afghanistan, and he sees the medic for some things. Just tell them that you're trying to quit smoking, anything... get on an ssri. Tell them you tried chantix and it didn't work. Tell them you tried wellbutrin a long time ago, for stress caused by a death of a close family member.  Prozac being the gold standard, but honestly anything will do. Also, be aware of this.. although it may be a sign of detox, many Anti depressants even of different classes have contraindications of myalgia, even fractures. Some localized to neck and/or back, some not. I was looking in the Davis drug book last night at work. Even cymbalta, which is touted for chronic pain has a contraindication for myalgia (muscle pain). I'm afraid that I'm just going to get a Taber's med book and a nurses or pharmacists drug book and do some research myself. And some med studies. I am very interested in drugs. Not just from experiences, but my whole life. I'm very interested in herbs, drugs, and herb-drug interactions. Maybe I just might enroll myself in school when I get better. I feel like I need to study medicine. Research, even go  through a Taber's for diseases, maybe some other interesting med books.

I've read on wikipedia (which I'm not certain it's of credible source) that tramadol causes immunological tolerance, which  is the process by which the immune system does not attack an antigen. That sh*t scares me. I don't know if that is while on the drug or now I have a permanent compromised immune system. I work at a f*cking nursing home, and these people wind up with respiratory MRSA, AIDS, and other isolation precautions! Can anyone elaborate on this for me? I don't get vaccinations anymore, especially the flu vaccination. I have never had the flu, but I felt like absolute sh*t when I got vaccinated a few years ago. I hate needles, and I hate it when I get stuck with one. I especially hate it when the nurse on the other end is so rough a piece of meat hangs off the end of the needle when they pull it out. I can give shots and that doesn't bother me and I've even gave blood a year ago, but I don't like them. Period.

Ah.. I was rummaging through my "black hole" of a purse last night and came across a tramadol at the bottom of my purse. I threw it, and say get away you demon! and it landed somewhere between the wall and the stove. Im not looking for it. Fiance said he was going to find it and flush it so his kid doesn't get into it, which I don't think he will honestly, but anything to keep the boy safe, right?

Gizmok-- We are not here for judging you. You have a special situation. I imagine you're with pain management. I give you empathy, because you have do a juggling act with being an "addict" and having "quality of life". I have quit and relapsed with trams. Just because it wasn't a narcotic doesn't mean it could be justified and that was what I was EXACTLY doing. I'm sure if you weren't jacked up with surgerys and have chronic pain that you wouldn't be taking narcs to begin with. As long as you're not shooting them up or crushing them and snorting them or taking over your prescribed dose, you should be okay. After ( I believe )3-5 days on strong opiates/oids like opana or oxycontin, you're body will become physically dependent. Fact. So keep that in mind when taking a break every once in a while. This is only a suggestion and of course your treatment is between you and your doctor. It IS a good idea to try to take a break every now and then if your tolerance goes up. That's why I say kratom. It is an herb. It is used for opiate withdrawals, you must take at least 8 grams of the stuff for pain relief, I have experienced it in both powder and capsule, some people like the taste and take it like a BC powder, I just take it as a capsule. Don't expect a buzz, it's analgesic effects are no stronger than darvocet (imo). It must be taken on an empty stomach. If you have taken any opioids /opiates that day, it won't even work. This is when you are cutting off of a controlled substance. Again, if you find yourself liking it(which I doubt you will because it ***** compared to strong opiates), then maybe you should take ibuprofen for inflammation only if you can take it and of course not before surgery, and if permissible move and stretch as much as you can tolerate. Keep in mind, just trying to help out, I am NOT a physician or pharmacist, but I have my experiences, and my father is a pharmacist and I have been his tech when he had his drug store. We have had lots of discussions on meds.
Love and healing,
Denise

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by Sarabie, Dec 04, 2011
Dear Gizmo

There's no shame in getting pain killers for extreme pain. That's why they were invented in the first place. And of course we remember you :-) Glad to hear from you. When is your surgery?

Love, Susie

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 04, 2011
Its day 15 and not sweating as bad during last two nights but today has been miserable...sweating like a pig. I truly can not take this anymore. I told my family what was going on and they;re not surprised since I had been on it for three years.

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 04, 2011
Gizmo - I agree there is nothing wrong with being on pain meds for real serious pain..that is how I ended up on tram...pain I have from medical issues....I am a 20 year liver transplant recipient so no stranger to pain. I wish you the best with your surgery.

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by loopey2u, Dec 04, 2011
Don't even beat yourself up for getting pain killers, Gizmo.  You have legit pain.  If my neck still hurt you bet I'd take something too, just not Trams. ;)  

If you need it, you need it.  That's what they're there for.  Just my take.

Day 4, and I feel great except I still can't sleep.  It will pass, I just wish it would hurry up already.



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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 04, 2011
Congrats, tt, on the 15 days!  I know - it might be hard to hear that today given that you're feeling miserable.  If this helps, I'd find after a particularly tough day the next day would be a lot better.  Hang in there - you're doing great even if it doesn't feel like it.  :)

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 04, 2011
Thanks ImDone,,,I am beginning to think this will never end....I would've thought it would have by now

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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 04, 2011
Yeah I know I remember those days really well and it was unbelievably frustrating and miserable.  I know.

I really had to force myself to run on blind faith for a while - and then I'd have a good day and it would be a huge relief.  It did go back n' forth for a while - but soon I'd have a few days in a row where I felt almost okay again and that was a huge relief too.  I'm sorry you're going through all of this - it's awful.  I know.

And try to remember some day all of these days are going to pay off BIG time and you will be well on your way to feeling good every day (well, as much as anyone of can given it is LIFE right?! lol) - but you will get past this and you will never and I mean NEVER want to go through this again.  :)

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 04, 2011
Thanks, Its actually scarring me how long this has gone one. I just sent my doc an email (the one who prescribed it to me) explaining all this to him. Right now, no I don't care if my pain comes back, I'm not taking that crap again....I don't understand how I can be freezing and sweating at once and not have a fever, these WD don't make sense to me....I just wish it would stop.

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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 04, 2011
That's good - smart to check in with the Dr. to make sure there isn't anything else going on.  The sweating went on for me for a while but it did finally stop.  But really smart to make sure with your Dr. :)

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 04, 2011
At least it stopped happening during my sleep....last three nights I wasn't sweating but have been during the day...maybe my body is doing the detoxing backwards..instead of night like you said it should...during the day lol

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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 04, 2011
Yeah that's the tricky thing about withdrawal - although a lot of symptoms are the same they do vary a bit from person to person - because we're all built differently I think (lol) - one person could have no sweating at all or only have the RLS and another nothing but sweating and no rls , whatever.  That made a lot of this experience pretty confusing for me.

But just think, tomorrow morning you will have another day under your belt.  I used to love that feeling at night - knowing when I woke up another day was behind me and I was a day closer to the symptoms ending for good.  Course, some days I actually noticed each minute going by never mind days, awful!!  haha - but it's all good because you're getting there.  Slowly but surely you are getting there.  And remember - the sweating is actually good - you're getting those nasty toxins out of your system - day, night whenever!  At least they're getting out.  :)

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 04, 2011
What is RLS? You lost me there....I know the sweating means its getting rid of toxins but its driving me up a wall. As for size, I am tiny....5"4 and probably 115lbs....

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by vicki595, Dec 04, 2011
Hi tt-  In case ImDONE doesn't get right back to you:  RLS=restless leg syndrome. It's awful; especial during a Tramadol detox. Legs (and arms) can be so jiggy,crampy,funny feeling like you can't keep them still. Legs will start kicking (where the expression "kicked the habit" came from). Are you having trouble with this?

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 04, 2011
Thanks Vicki, I had that for 5 days probably..haven't had that anymore. I think the only symptom I am still having is the weird temp thing...cold/sweating/cold/..body can't make up its mind...

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 04, 2011
and I'd gladly take the leg kicking thing any day over this....seriously

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by Gizmok, Dec 04, 2011
Hi guys. :) TT, keep your chin up, it does get better. Congrats on having so many days clean. Been there, I commend you for even wanting to get of the tram. It takes a lot of inner strength to even admit there is a problem. When I detoxed off of the opiates the first time, my withdraw lasted about 5-7 days, and was not fun, but the tram withdraw lasted sooooo much longer and I still feel some effects of it. Not even being on an opiate again takes care of the depression, or some of the other things.
Thank you everyone for the support. I know that I have to take these pain meds because without them I can hardly move, but I feel like i just took a giant leap backwards. My dr has me taking 3 10mg oxycodone a day. He said that I should take them no matter if the pain is bad or not, because he said that will keep me from taking to many when the pain gets to bad. So I take one in the morning one in the afternoon and one right before bed. I'm thankful that my dr was so understanding. He told me that after my surgery we will wean Down on the meds. It is sooooooo hard because I want to walk in that kitchen grab 3 or 4 of them and just take them for that "feeling". Its a good thing that I am answering to my hubs and the doc, on how many I am taking, because without them my scrip would be gone in 4 days and I would be in pain for the rest of the month. I have 0 self control, I know this about myself.  
I have an appt with a neurosurgeon tomorrow to discuss my date for surgery. It's funny, I have had 7 other surgeries and this one is scaring me. I have had sooo many anxiety attacks thinking about it. I just can't wait to be able to wake up without pain, but I'm scared. The last surgery I had I woke up on the operating table in the middle of, I remember hearing lots of yelling, people running around yelling for them to put me back out. I was shaking on the table so bad that I remember hearing a bunch of metal hitting the floor, I guess they said I knocked over one of the trays the instruments were on. My anestheologist said that my body processes the medicine faster than most, but I don't remember waking up on any other surgery. Kinda crazy.
I am also very thankful for this forum, and for all of you that are on it. I know that I can't face all this by myself, so thank you for letting me ramble.
I wish you all peace and harmony, life after pills is a beautiful thing, you will get there. That is the unfortunate nature of this tramahell, the withdraw is 100x harder and more insidious than regular opiates. <3

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 04, 2011
Giz I totally get where you are coming from, I would be in such bad pain that in my head I think I wish I could just take six of those things and sleep but then that would make me run out sooner so I didn't. All you think about is getting rid of the pain. I thank God I am not having pain now or one I would say screw this and run to the drug store....You ever need someone to talk to about surgeries and all that let me know. I can totally relate.

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by haves, Dec 04, 2011
Ok so I can't wait two weeks ( 10 ) days for college to be over to stop taking these pills. Yesterday I was  trying to study and I realized I easn't retaining anything. I broke down and confessed to my wife. I've felt so distance from her. She new but like a good alon she new she couldn't helP me until I asked for help, well that was yesterday. It's been about 34 hours and I break out crying all the time. I've had chills sweat and one heck of a sour stomach. Some anxiety but not much yet. Don't know if it made a difference but I took 4 immudium pills this a.m. - I've read it can relieve much more than the runs.
I tried to run today and I made it about a mile before I had to turn back. I ran for about twenty minutes then I came home and passed out. I detoxed off a much higher dose about 5 years ago and I am grateful I don't have that detox in front of me. This time over a three week time frame I took about 100 pills total about 3 a day

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 04, 2011
Haves, hope all this doesn't last too long for you and good for you for telling your wife! Hang in there, I know, easier said than done!

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 05, 2011
just had to post to see my tracker...I've never seen a month go by so slow in my life...

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Dec 05, 2011
I'm 3 weeks off of tram and having a very hard time with not sleeping and worry and depression.  And I'm having night sweats because of menopause (started before WD of tram).  

The first 2 weeks were easy.  Reinjured my shoulder and very achy.  I want to just die or disappear.  



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by turkeytrotter, Dec 05, 2011
Yoyo, I am sorry you're still having so many problems three weeks out but congrats on those three weeks. Did you try contacting the doc to see what could be done about the shoulder? Hope you feel better soon!

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 05, 2011
Yea, I know all about trying to retain information while on this.  I am in a 17 day training course.  Somehow I managed to pass 2 certification exams in 3 days, but I still have 4 more to go....  

denised1982 - Yea, my mom FEDEX'ed some out here.  I just pray they make it, suppose to be here on Wednesday.  If they for some reason dont make it (customs) or if the pills are fake (she ordered them off a site and they came in blister packs) then I am screwed.  Its extremely difficult to get anything in the gulf countries (dubai, kuwait, bahrain), they are very strict on drugs.  Tram is considered a narcotic here actually.  If something goes wrong I might have to leave early, no way I start WDs here and then fly back to Afghan.  That would be brutal.  

I am so tired of having to revolve my life around these....  If I had a good 3 weeks off I would just say F it and try a CT.  

The hard part is that once I leave Afghan in Feb, I have to get a job in the US.  Which means an interview process and the whole meet and greet with new employees.  I dont really want to be suffering from post detox depression during that time, but I dont think there is a choice.  The only other option would be to just stay in Afghanistan until I am completely tapered off, then leave, and take about a month of doing anything.  

I might try to do a switch to Kratom, you will immediately notice you dont get the same euphoria that tram provides, but it will help with trams WDs.  You still have to withdrawal from Kratom, but in a way it kind of gets your mind back into reality.  Its hard to explain.  Kratom only lasts 2 hours at the most, so depending on how much tram you take you would be doing much more.

If your body isnt used to opiates, then Kratom will give you that feeling.  I think its a notch down from tram because it doesnt quite mess with you mind as much.  It does give you energy like tram though.  The crap is expensive though and tastes horrible if you buy the powder.

The good news is that when I return to afghan my team lead goes on a month vacation, so the workload is going to be nothing.  It would be a good time to start a more aggressive taper.

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by haves, Dec 05, 2011
Sleep the night away . I was barely able to wake up want to just go back to sleep. Feels like I'm sleep walking. Can I really expect to go out in public like this. I have an test at schoolbthis am but not sure I can even drive. How long before I have some energy? Not hunger or thirsty but I sweat like crazy. Because I didn't use for long would my syptoms be lees intense but last 5-7 plus days or would everything be intense but last shorter 5 days tops

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by Sarabie, Dec 05, 2011
Haves - the worse physical w/d's lasts for about 48 hours. At least mine did and I was on a +20 dose. Try and sleep and do nothing else. Think of it as having a bad flue.

Love, Sus

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 05, 2011
Haves you should get your energy back with in a week...as for the sweating, I have no clue when that ends...that seems to be my last and longest symptom. Even if you are not hungry, force yourself to eat something and drink lots of water...it helps!

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by loopey2u, Dec 05, 2011
Hot, then freezing.  Hot, then freezing again.  Just feel out of it, and all I wanna do is sleep, but still 1000 x's better than last time.  It's day 5.   I took 3 immodium tabs about an hour ago and I do think they're helping a little bit.

I slept really good last night, and then went back to bed this morning for a while but I feel like I could go back to bed again.  Sooo tired.  Going to the gym tonight with my hubby, and hopefully going hardcore on the treadmill for a good half hour will help sweat more of this stuff out of me.  Then I'm coming home and going to bed, don't care what time it is.

Heh, and here I thought I was getting off Scot free.....lol  

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 05, 2011
Loopy yes it *****, sorry about the temp changes....I think that is the worst part. I was ok with the other stuff but the sweating is so gross and annoying.

I hope it goes away quickly for you.

Again, did not want to run...I think this has totally screwed with my motivation. I was going to ditch but forced myself to go anyway...the whole time I'm thinking about this bs and all it does it make me mad so the faster I ran...I believe thats the fasted I've ran since starting...

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by tramsick, Dec 05, 2011
Loopey, get your rest, remember you weren't getting natural sleep on tram, so your body will crave it.  Give in to it and rest. Hope you feel better.

Okay, I have to chime in on the replacing one drug for another.  Imdonenomore, I am very happy for you that you were able to do this, believe me, if I could've done it, I would have.  I just wanted to give you an example of someone who didn't have much of a choice in the matter.

I went CT after a very low dosage of only 3 months.  OMG, did I go through hell, but I didn't take much, I think all I tried to take that first month was OTC seasick medicine because I was so dizzy.  I had everything mentioned here, restless legs, insomnia, sweats, etc. Could be anywhere and first become dizzy, tingly all over, and then panic attacks would set in.  Everything left me around 60 days except for the panic attacks.  Now these aren't just a little anxiety.  These attacks are full blown I'm having a heart attack, can't breathe, and going to die right here feeling.  They can come on anywhere.  I've had them in Walmart, grocery shopping, church, at home. Debilitating... this happening some 60 days off tram.  Never had panic attacks before tram, so I attribute it to the devil drug.

At this point I had no choice but to seek professional help.  I didn't know if I had done some kind of permanent damage to my body and mind.  I was thouroughy checked out by my doctors who decided that my panic attacks had to be mananged, and therefore gave me Clonazepam (Klonopin), which literally gave me life back.  Now, I don't want to be on it and my doctors know it's not a permanent solution, so I've been prescribed Lexapro to control the panic attacks and we will then wean me off the benzodiazepines when the Lexapro takes effect.

I don't attribute my use of a controlled substance to be weak or replacing tram.  It's a way to manage the tram aftermath.  I don't take any more than I have been prescribed and I have a plan to become drug free with my physician's help.  Like I said, I wish that I could have just eventually been symptom free, but we are all different, and tram left me with a problem that had to be medically treated.  It doesn't happen to everyone, but it happened to me.

I'm not being defensive, I recognize your opinion and respect it, and for those of you who can kick tram without medicinal help, I applaud you, I would've loved to do it myself.

Keep up the fight, no matter how you do it, we will all get there!




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by loopey2u, Dec 05, 2011
Amen, tramsick.  I'm going to take a few xanax tonight if I can't sleep because I slept so much today and not feel guilty at all about it.  Our bodies need rest after all this.  You're right, we weren't sleeping like we should have been while on trams.  I remember nights where I barely slept at all.

Whatever it takes, as long as it's not starting another "problem" is OK in my book too.  I'm sorry about your panic attacks.  Those are just HORRIBLE.  I get them too occasionally.  I hope they get it figured out for you and these horrible things GO AWAY and never come back.

Wow, I just slept for 2 more hours.  Lucky for me I'm not working and can do that.  I honestly don't know how some of you made it work during w/d.  My hat is off to you.  In some ways I can see where it would be better, at least you're occupied, but that tiredness was just something I COULD NOT ingore.  The sweating too, I've taken 3 showers today and will probably take 1 more before bed tonight.  

When I sweat, it has a funky odor to it, can't describe it but it doesn't smell like regular sweat.  Has anybody else noticed that too or is is just me?

Sex drive is back too, which is a good thing.   Now only if I wasn't so damn tired... :)

Baby steps.  Baby steps.  Off to the gym in another hour and a half.  I'm going to direct my anger at the treadmill and work that thing.  Hopefully I'll be able to walk tomorrow..hahhaha

Have a great night everybody.

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 05, 2011
Yes I know exactly what you mean loopey, the smell is just weird.....maybe its the tram dying, I do not know....lol

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by denised1982, Dec 05, 2011
BeenHere--- I'm just amazed at how Afghanistan is the number one supplier in heroin and opium, yet, they consider a lot of opiates and other things illegal... Its is weird. Double standard?

Yep, I'm getting hot/freezing effect too. I am also getting post nasal drip and cough and sneezing my head off. I don't know if it's the PAWS or the fact that everyone is sick down here. My stepkid is doing the same thing, so it's hard to tell. Plus, with the possible immune tolerance effect of tramadol... It IS scary. My back and leg hurt again, so my pain is back. I am getting the chills, but I am also experiencing what seems like Raynaud's Phenomenon. My feet feel like 30 degrees colder than the rest of my body.

My Christmas tree fell over while I was posting on here yesterday. I had already taken my trazadone and celexa and pravastatin. It is an over 9 foot tree, and my fiance has a tree stand that is too small. I knew that was going to be a problem and told him we need a heavy duty stand. I managed to get it back up by myself, the thing is massive. It almost fell on me while I was trying to level out the stand.  When it fell, I called up my fiance and told him what had happened, and he was so pissed off and acting like a d*ck. He said he would be there to not touch it, but I put it up anyway. After that, my heart started pounding out of my chest and my chest started to get sharp pain. After we secured the tree and all was well, I started freaking out, because the tree (so I thought) was shaking back and forth and I thought it was gonna fall again. I thought it broke our playstation, because I "saw" smoke starting to come out of it. I asked my fiance about it, and he said it definitely wasn't there. Then apologized about yelling at me on the phone.. So.. I'm a little worried about th, but you know how doctors typically are, they're like, yeah... it could be a symptom, but keep taking this because I am god and I have spoken. I typically don't like to hallucinate. I may call him about it, I had to lie down and just go to bed, because it made me not want to talk or anything. I felt really bad.

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by loopey2u, Dec 05, 2011
Now the crying is going to start, I can feel it.  So very strange how it just comes over you like that.  Goddamn it, I thought since I didn't have the zaps or the flu I was gonna be OK.

F  U  DoubleC  K.  

Thanks for listening.  I am pessed off beyond belief this is happening.  I take back what I said.  Prozac is NOT the cure all.  Helps with the acute w/d (zaps/flu/etc) but not with the mental part.  I wish I hadn't cancelled my appt. with the shrink today.  Thought I wouldn't need him but I guess I was wrong.  Dead wrong.

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by Sarabie, Dec 05, 2011
Hang in there Loopey !! Even people who aren't dealing with these issues gets themselves a good crying once in awhile. It'll pass like everything else, and you are doing SO well !!!!

Ican where are you?? Leaving soon I suppose - please post and tell how you are doing.

Booba that goes for you too... I miss you.

Love, Susie

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by loopey2u, Dec 05, 2011
Thanks, Sarabie.  Hubby and I went to the gym and I sweat like crazy.  It did also boost my mood tremendously.  Some of the people on here say to work out, and that does help me when I get very depressed.  I hope all the sweating got some more of this crap out of my system.

Yeah, Ican.  Please post and let us know how you are.  You too Booba.  

I broke down and just took a muscle relaxer, so I should be very sleepy soon, and tomorrow will bring Day 6.

Just gonna take this one day at a time and deal with whatever rears its head each day, because it WILL get better.  Too bad patience is not one of my virtues..haha

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by denised1982, Dec 05, 2011
Loopey--- It s*cks, I hope you feel better soon. Crying stinks when you don't have a reason to cry about. I hate that. I have to see my therapist tomorrow. I just feel like crap. I dunno about these meds anymore. I'm about to up my dose of celexa in a few days, but I liked lexapro better. They are close they have almost the same ingredient, but I feel drained and down. Gettin the runs after I eat, chills, cold like symptoms, my back and leg hurt so friggin bad. Feeling down. Kinda sad, and kinda don't care, kinda not there. I took the trams for the pain, and the pain is back, my energy is like the way it was before I started. I wanna go lie down, but if I go to sleep too long I'm just gonna hurt more. F*ck this. This sh*t's for the birds. F uck my life.



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by denised1982, Dec 05, 2011
The days seem longer for me too. I'm not really liking this. At all. The hours pass by slowly, even at work. I guess it's from the pain and just waiting to feel better.

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 05, 2011
Yes Denise this sh*t IS for the birds....hope you and Loopey feel better soon. I laid down and died earlier....

I told my cousin what I think is going on with me and I think she thinks I am crazy. She said its not a narcotic so I shouldn't be having withdraws...I told her I found it odd how I get ill when I go without these things and it goes away when I take one...

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by haves, Dec 05, 2011
55 hours since my last tram. I kinda have my hunger back but I'm afraid that my bowels are about to run. My feet are tingling and my hands are too. It's very hard to sit still as I am very restless. I haven't sneezed as much as previous times but when I yawn I get very cold after. I made back to AA and admitted what was going on . I'm hoping this symptoms wind down soon as final exams start one week from today.

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by fightorfight, Dec 05, 2011
Haves-- in a weeks time you'll feel much better than you do now.    It's probably going to get a bit worse before it gets better,  days 2 and 3 are normally the peak of the acute WDs.   The morning of Day 4 or the night there will be something that turns over, normally one of your first W/D symptoms that gets better.   For me that was and has been GI issues.   Days 5 and 6 are like that where you see some improvement and days 7-10 I'd say you'd be functional.      There will be a time, more than likely, where you'll get a big surge of energy.   Loss of sleep hysteria was the name coined here.   I'd actually use that time to study,  I can remember down to the minute, things that I read or listened to during those moments of withdrawal.  In fact, I have an entire playlist of music that I could probably sing,  having not heard it for a 2 years.     Make use of those moments, and the other times, take care of yourself.  

Loop, Turkey, and Denise -  Time does seem to go by slowly the first few days, it helps if you're working, or otherwise indisposed with something.    Recreation, and its normal relaxing property, is fairly tough, up to a few weeks out (Though you'll notice improvement in this week by week).   Since you're not getting the Serotonin release that you had been, time will drag for a little.   Its important that you stay active as you can allow--- most of those initial times will be hard, but kickstarting your body into producing the chemicals Tramadol released will allow you to stave off some of the post acute malaise.  

As far as pains in the gut and the lower back/legs, thats primarily where the opiate part of Tramadol binds after it has been metabolized.   People who take it for pains not in those areas will still notice them coming through w/d, some people have better luck in one area or both.   Those can stay hypersensitive for up to three weeks by my reading, but again its a gradient of improvement that you'll see throughout those weeks.      So, it'll get better, but again, slowly.    

Keep up the good fight everybody.  

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 05, 2011
FOF I get what you are saying...as much as I have to drag myself out the door to run, I feel so much alive after I'm done and then ask myself why did I make that so much harder than it was....

and tomorrow is day 17 for me...I def notice a difference in my sleep now...when I lay down at night, its like I go into a coma.

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 05, 2011
I have been off by one day....went back looking at journal I keep and it says my last tram was on the night of 18th so that means tomorrow it'll 18 days....not sure why I was thinking the 19th, guess thats when symptoms started....ohhhhh thank you, I needed that.

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by ullr, Dec 06, 2011
Since Medhelp wont stop reminding me to update my tracker - I'll do it.

Things are a bit better for me! Hope you all are doing good!

PS:
Did anyone of you long term users got cramps in the chest or other wierd bodyparts after quitting?
I am taking magnesium now to see if that helps.




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by loopey2u, Dec 06, 2011
Hang in there denise.  Hang in there and it will be gone in time.  It feels like farking forever, but it will pass.  Hope you can get in with your therapist today.  <3

Turkey, I'm sorry you died earlier today...lol  That's how I felt too. My sister is a pharmacist and pretty much said I was crazy too having w/d's from this stuff.  She even asked senior pharmacists, and they have never heard of anybody having w/d's either.   Crazy.

Stick with it haves.  They say the worst physical symptoms are over in 36-72 hours and you're almost there.  Plan on being tired for a few days after that too.  If you can, sleep.  And then sleep some more if your body will let you.

Much better this morning, we'll see how the rest of the day goes.  Hopfully it will be a good one.


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by JULIUS23, Dec 06, 2011
HOW IS EVERYBODY??? KEEP UP DA GOOD FIGHT@ DENISE, FOF, TURKEY, SUSIE,ULLR,HAVES, TO ALL OF YILE WE CAN DO DIS BC I MADE IT THRU N I KNW YILE CAN..DAY 50!!!..one thing i can say is tramadol detox ***** on sooo many levels lol, im just thankful i made it to day 50 of no tramadol.. im happy bout the accomplishment but im still dealing with the boredom of this stuff... it seems like nunthing doesnt seem fun anymore and i hate dat bc i remember i use to be ready to climb to the top of a mountain years ago but i jus hope dat lil zap i had comes back soon bc dis is bulll shhhh.... i knw yile can relate to wat im sayin bc even with this sinus cold i still like to have sumthn to do... The depression is really not a big factor for me but i do feel it at times when im n da house with nunthn to do and im sitting here wishing their was disney land standing in front of me so it can take my mind off alot of things.... its been almost two weeks since i took a prozac and i still have no brain zaps and im truly luving dat....@Ullr ... One thing i do agree with is im still having these weird stomach and body cramps dat go from my stomach to my chest to my back lower and upper and they are not comfortable at all... did anybody develop irritable bowel syndrome bc of tramadol bc i heard n can mess up da nervous system n ur stomach area and i have heartburn now.. its funny bc i did not have any of dem issues while i was taking tramdol and no heartburn... well wut can i say i guess dis is all part of da get back to normal cycle we go through but as long as you can keep ur self from taking dat devil pill then its worth it!!! GOD BLESS YILE AND KEEP UP DA GOOD FIGHT... DNT GIVE IN FOR NUNTHNIN IF UR ON DAYS 1-12 BC IT WILL GET BETTER TRUST ME... DAY 50 N STILL GOING STRONG!!  ITS WAR.....

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by booba77, Dec 06, 2011
Hi guys.  Thank you for asking about me.  I am still on the trams, but I will be going cold turkey probably this Monday when I run out.  I want to get the house in order and decorate for Christmas before i aget totally indisposed.  I hope everyone is hanging in there.  It can only get better with time.  I went back and read my old posts from when I went cold turkey before.  Boy i have been on this site a long time....lol.  I hope you guys have a great day.  

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by Sarabie, Dec 06, 2011
Claiming that tram isn't addictive is just plain stupid. It even says on the pamphlet that it's addictive and an opiat. Doctors only prescribe tram in Denmark if it's really necessary and you'll be informed about the addiction and offered to come off it again in a hospital. But money talks...And I'm pretty sure the drug industry has a lot more power in the US than here. Too bad though :-( I think it's bad enough here, but having to deal with educated people claiming stuff like that, must be depraving. Especially going throug w/d's. "sigh"

Well getting ready for Christmas. I only have to buy presents for my parents - that's easy - and then I'll try and make a purse from empty potatochips bags. Seen it done and they are cool. Hope I'll be able to keep concentrated, but since my tram stop I'm having a slight problem with focusing on one thing for more than 1,5 hour. Well I also had that problem before tram, but didn't really notice it, as it has always been like that. But it irritates me now where I've tried to be able to sit for hours and hours doing the same thing. Then I need to remind myself that it was because I was totally doped.

Booba I'm glad you stopped by. I guess you'll be posting from Monday then, if you go CT...

Love, Susie

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by booba77, Dec 06, 2011
You won't be able to keep me away...lol

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 06, 2011
denised1982 - Yes, opium is one of Afghans main crops, its pretty important to their economy.  However, I am in Dubai right now, so I was refering to the laws of the GCC (Gulf Coast Countries) countries.  These countries include Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Saudi (I think).  Anyways, they are more advanced countries than what most people think, however religion and state isnt separate.  So there are a lot of crazy laws because of the muslim religion.  For example, if you have internet in any of these countries you cannot go to any porn sites, they are all blocked.  Here in Dubai they also block VoIP (voice over IP) skype, vonage, etc.  This city is all foreigners so everyone would rather make calls over the internet to save money, however since the government blocks it, it forces people to use the local cellular companies.  Its really a scam.

Anyways, Muslims really arent even supposed to drink alcohol.  In Kuwait you will not find any bars, alcohol is illegal.  In Bahrain and Dubai you cant buy alcohol at stores, but you can go to bars.  However, all the bars are in hotels.  Its kinda weird but its just the way it goes.  

Tramadol is a narcotic here.  I ran out of kratom and tram while in Bahrain and I felt horrible.  I went to the ER/Doctor and told him I get chronic tension headaches and my doctor in the US prescribes me tramadol.  The doc reluctantly gave me 6 tablets, but I could tell he was very leery and wasnt sure if I was lying.  

When you are in Afghan or Iraq its completely different, its too dangerous there to just live in the cities and go to work via taxis or whatever.  You are always going to live on a US military base, or possibly a villa that has private security contractors to guard it.  You dont really experience Afghan or Iraq lifestyle like you would if you worked in Kuwait, Bahrain, Saudi, or UAE.  I know Americans kinda just lump the whole middle east all together but its very different.

I received my package today that my mother sent, luckily it came ok and the tram is legit.  I was pretty scared I was going to have to leave about 3 days early because I didnt pack enough, and this class altogether is about $9k.  I am paying for $4k of it so I didnt want to waste it.  

In a way it was very humiliating to receive that package.  It cost $150 just to send it, and to have my mother go through the hassle....  Thats how bad these pills are affecting my life.  I dont even want to think about how much money in total this habit has cost me.  Luckily my job in Afghan pays very well so I can easily recoup the losses, but it still doesnt make it right.

That is crazy about all these pharmacists saying Tramadol is not addictive and there are no WDs.  I guess they dont directly deal with patients though so they only go by the label.  

loopey2u - Yea, like I mentioned earlier, the SSRIs dont kick in for a couple weeks and actually there are a lot of warnings that depression may be worse when you first start taking them.  I dont know why they say that, but just look it up.  The prozac will help, but its not going to cure the damage that tram has done.  That just takes time for your body to regulate itself.  

A lot of people wonder when they will return to 'normal' however for some of us we dont even remember what normal was.  You are so used to the tram giving you energy and motivation that you are expecting that same type of motivation to return naturally.  Well its not going to.  Its just going to take time to adjust to being a little lethargic or non-motivated to do certain tasks, because thats the way we were before the pills.  

Also, regarding taking benzos during withdrawals.  I would recommend it mainly because it is easy to wean off of.  You are not going to crave benzos like you crave opiates, at least most wont.  You cant take valium and xanax all day unless you just want to sleep and be incredibly lazy, which I doubt most of us want.  A benzo CT WD isnt fun but its not like you want to shoot yourself like tram WD is.  Completely different.  Whatever can help you get through that first week is ok in my book, as long as it isnt another opiate, then you are only delaying WDs.


  

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by legaljunky, Dec 06, 2011
As I read thru the posts I see that so many of you are struggling but fighting hard and winning the Tramadevil battle.  Keep going, it is so worth it!  My worst days are a distant memory but I still have some remaining minor Tram related symptoms.  Once a day or more often I get very tired and in the same time period I have little hot flashes. This lasts an hour or more, I just lie down and try to sleep but usually can't.  And a lot of foods don't taste right.  Mainly coffee- I LOVE coffee but it doesn't taste good any more.  I hope it will again.  Outside of that, life is beautiful!

I was fearing my 90 day PAWS but I've decided not to have it.  We'll see how that goes!

Stay strong, we all need each other!
Love, acceptance and perseverance to all of us!

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by denised1982, Dec 06, 2011
Julius, FoF, Sarabie, Loopey, ullr, BeenHere, turkey, booba, everyone else...
Hey y'all! Just wanted to say I am feeling a lot better today... I had to cancel with the therapist because I am taking care of fiances sick child while he goes to work, and he missed work yesterday because little one was sick and I just got off work and was feeling sick too and working night shift I had to get my sleep during the day. Im off today and was yesterday and caught up on my sleep, so I feel better, not feeling as sh*tty as I was. I tend to get depressed when I am extremely bored and want to do something but can't find anything to do and when I am hurting.

Julius, as far as the IBS thing goes, I wouldn't put it past them d@mn trams! You wanna know why? Your gastrointestinal system does have serotonin in it. That is why when some people get upset they vomit or go dump. It is known as your "2nd brain". Totally can relate on the disneyland in the house. Magic Kingdom is the funnest park anyway. Awesome! I would stay on big thunder and space mountain the whole time. Splash mountain too.

BeenHere- I am very surprised to hear that pharmacists are saying they aren't addictive. My dad is a pharmacist and totally says that they are. The hospital that he works has an outpatient pharmacy, and he sees people line up for they're trams. They go nuts if they're not ready in time, or whatever. He knows that they are addictive, and over a year ago he gave me a lecture of how bad they are. I do not think he could tell the patients how to take them because he isn't a doctor, or a PharmD. He is an RPh but he's been doing this for over 40 years... He told me when he had his hip replaced he was on norco, then I guess trams after the norco, but he only took them when he couldn't take the pain anymore. But, he says they are "just as addictive". Oh yeah, in afghanistan is it legal to posses H over there? Just outta curiosity. Never tried the sh*t, too scared of it. Do they dispense it to people, are there a lot of people on it over there or is it just an export business or what? What's the deal with that?

Been totally having crazy pains. Guess that's the nature of the beast. Chest pain, back/neck/leg/jaw/ankle pain, total bullsh*t pain. Guess the serotonin is totally depleted. Total bullsh*t, I tell ya! BULLSH*T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's around 9am over here and I wanna get drunk. I'm not that much of a drinker anymore, but I wanna feel something besides bullsh*t. I know, it's not healthy, but then again, I've done much worse. I would probably drink 2 beers real quick and then throw up after the 3rd one, I've always been a cheap drunk, but could hold liquor better than I could beer. I have beer and wine in the house, but nothing harder. Damn. Oh well, gives me baaaaaaaad heartburn anyway. F*ck it, can't take care of a sick child all in a drunken stupor anyway.

Everyone, I hope all is well.
<3 Denise


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by turkeytrotter, Dec 06, 2011
Yeah I found the info on it last night on website from drug store I get it from and it plainly states you can go into withdraw if you stop taking it. Of course ignorant me never read those little things they give you. When I was first put on it, I was in so much pain, I did not care...I just wanted the pain gone...by any means possible.

Now I wonder if this crap hasn't been the cause of some of my pain....I was worried when I ran out and scared that I would be in horried pain again but so far nothing...maybe a little aching or soreness from running.

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by loopey2u, Dec 06, 2011
Wow, Beenhere.   $150. USD just to get the package to you?  Wow.  Thank God you've got a good job and can recoup that.  
Glad you have your taper stash now.  When you think of it, $150 is a small price to pay in order to avoid C/T w/d's.  

Hang in there.  

Just woke up from a nap and I honestly feel like I could sleep again, but I can't, too much to do today.  Should be interesting since I have zero, ZERO motivation or energy.  

My husband was taking it too, and now he's come off with hardly any side effects at all except extreme lethargy.  No brain zaps, nothing.  Funny how different people react differently.


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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 06, 2011
denised1982 - haha, no, there is no Heroin problem or anything in Afghan where I am.  I dont live or work in the cities or anything, I work and live on a secure compound that only other contractors/military live on. I dont think you are going to find too many Heroin pushers around where I am living :)  Afghanistan is just known to grow poppy plants, which is turned into morphine and then Heroin or whatever.  I dont think addiction is a problem even with the locals, I think the farmers out in the middle of no where just grow it because they get the most money for it.  Afghanistan is very rural, most of it is just plain desert and mountains.

loopey2u - sending FEDEX from the US to UAE in 3 days is going to be expensive, but I am just lucky to have enough to taper without worrying about it in the back of my mind while trying to concentrate on the training.

Does anyone else have a super hard time getting out of bed?  Not that you are tired, more like you just dont even want to face the day?  I deal with that every single morning, usually once I am showered and everything I am fine.  Its just that initial time I wake up and realize its time to get up, I try to lay there until the very last minute I possibly can.  I dont know why its so bad, but it is.

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 06, 2011
Ok I am not crazy, just talked to my transplant nurse and she def thinks I am withdrawing....she is going to talk to the pharmacist there and call me back. She asked if I wanted to continue taking the tram and I said hell no!

Its day 18 and I am still sweating, should I be worried yet?

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by haves, Dec 06, 2011
Almost 72 hours and I feel some what ok . My main syptoms are very tired ( I slept all night ) and I still cry out of the blue. My legs are kicking and I have no hunger. I wanted to get to the gym but that seems to hard at day  3 . In my past recoveries I've always used exercise to rebound . I have a wonderful life without this pills but being an addict in recovery you have to be connected to a power greater than your self 24. -7 not just when you want to . I forgot that part and decided I want a little time off.

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 06, 2011
haves - you should be happy your able to sleep most of this away.  The worst is feeling like crap and not being able to sleep on top of that.  If your body is saying rest, then by all means rest.  Its weird you are able to sleep so well, insomnia during tram WDs is almost a given.

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by tramsick, Dec 06, 2011
turkeytrotter, haves, all you brave ones.  Keep it up, you're doing great and you'll get better every day.  Your sweating turkeytrotter must be so frustrating, tell us what the pharmacist says.  Sweating is a way of getting the junk out of your system, so your body is eliminating the toxin, but that's a long time.  I remember feeling hot all day, but only sweat at night.

LEGALJUNKY, you mentioned coffee not tasting good to you anymore.  Have no interest in coffee either, and I used to LOVE coffee.  I've found that certain foods have almost very little taste to me too.  Plus, my sense of smell is not what it used to be.  Maybe that has something to do with it.  Has your sense of smell been affected?

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 06, 2011
Thanks Tramsick...my nurse talked with my doc and they both think that is whats wrong...said I def am in withdraw...said not much can be done except ride it out and said I should be ok in a few days....yes the sweating is making me nuts; I can't take it anymore, seriously. I told her about that...she agreed that too was part of the withdraw and said should be gone in another week...I don't know about that...dont think I'll have to worry about a 30 day PAWS because its not gonna let up long enough for that....

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 06, 2011
I'm the other way around..I sweat during day but not at night..my body is doing it backwards...

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by haves, Dec 06, 2011
Usually the no can sleep start after the wd. I having a really hard time with concentration. I 'm a full-time student and I can't detox and study . Most of my exams start next week so I'm hoping by the week end I will have my brains back

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by legaljunky, Dec 06, 2011
Tramsick-  I don't know about my sense of smell, I either continue to have the sinus/sore throat thing that everyone around me seems to have or it is still part of WD, I definitely smell some things and smell is part of taste, I don't know what's going on.  Here is my theory about coffee-  I think Tram replaced the effects of caffeine while I was on it and I wonder if that is still happening and what I really miss is the kick from coffee.

I have another lingering side effect-  I talk in my sleep and with the sinus stuff I snore!  I wasn't aware of it because my husband takes his hearing aid out when he goes to bed so he never hears it.  A couple weeks ago I went to FL and my grandson, who I adore, and I slept together in the king size bed in the guest room.  The next morning he told me about it, how I woke him all night long and he kicked me each time and I stopped!  Then the next night I didn't stop when he kicked me so he had to go up to his own bed!

Love and strength!

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by Beexx, Dec 06, 2011
SO MUCH LOVE TO ALL OF YOU!

This is my first post, but I have been following you guys for a while now and have been overwhelmed reading your remarks of ecouragement and words of wisdom.

I have been addicted to Tramadol for a year and a bit now, first finding it when I was going through a particuarly hard time. I ran a pub with my boyfriend and we were both very much in love, of course for reasons that are sometimes unavoidable and completely out of our control; life took some twists and turns and we could no longer continue our relationship. As we both lived in the pub’s accomodation we both moved and quit in the job, I moved back in with the rents, jobless and depressed missing by best friend, oh yes, that age old dilema, heart break!

Then I found Tramadol………………

Very quickly I became dependent on huge amounts, up to 30 a day sometimes, as I was also unemployed it filled my time very efficiently and managed to mask those feelings of depression.
To cut a long story short I have managed to focus myself in choosing a path in life that I actually want to follow and am now volunteering for a charity and am to begin studying a MA in Art Therapy BUT I am still completely dependent on Tramadol.

Which brings me to write my first post. I want rid of it. I have experienced the W/D’s only when my medication has run out and have not managed to get a refill. I am now trying to taper as I am way to scared to CT, my mum is supporting me with this and the plan is to do this over quite along period so my body (and mind) can adjust. I know this is going to be bloody tough. Just reading all your posts have been so inspiring and full of intelligent and honest comments. I find it interesting here that no ones paths would have crossed unless there was that one thing that everyone has in common and needs to share and also support one another through. Any body ever swings by London, England I will take you for a pint! Lol

Thank you to you all,

Bex


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by turkeytrotter, Dec 06, 2011
Welcome Beexx, this is a good place to start! I think reading the posts here is helping me. Wishing you the best, you can do it!

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by denised1982, Dec 06, 2011
BeenHere- I am a little better at getting out of bed now than when I was takin the damn trams! Could be the AD kickin in... who knows... I think too that the ultram was making me to where I couldn't sleep. I was taking a bit and opiods/opiates give me energy and I can't sleep.

Hi Bex,
What kind of taper are you doing? 10%down everyday for a week, then 20%down,30%down 40% etc. everyday for a week? I had to quit CT. It *****, but it ***** even MORE when you are WDing and waiting on the FEDEX man to come in  for your "fix". The WDs aren't quite AS bad when you know you're not ordering that sh*t anymore.

I wish everyone here the best! Y'all are awesome!!!
<3 Denise

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by legaljunky, Dec 06, 2011
Welcome Beexx- You've come to the right place!  As you can tell we are all so different, come from different parts of the world, our symptoms vary and our methods of getting rid of Tramadevil vary, but we love and support each other in a wonderful way!  Join us and fight like hell!  Post often, get your feelings off your chest and let us know how you're doing.  You're in for a hell of a ride but it's all pointing you in the right direction-  FREEDOM!!!  You'll find yourself again!

Like you, I read pages of posts before I figured out how I wanted to get off Tram.  Find your own way and we'll be here for you!

Love, strength and perseverance!!

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by ImDONENoMore, Dec 06, 2011
It's true beexx - this place will be a great source of information for you.

Welcome.  :)

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by loopey2u, Dec 06, 2011
Hi Bexx!  Welcome!

Everybody is great at this site, you'll like it here.

Lots of love and support.

Good luck with your taper, and it's great you have the support of your mum.  As you've probably read, the w/d's SUCK, but then you're done and rid of this horrible substance.  

Keep posting.  

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 06, 2011
Yes Bexx, some days you'll think you're dead but I'm told when it's over you'll see just how alive you really are....


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by Sarabie, Dec 06, 2011
Welcome Bex :-D and I'm actually often in London, so I'll hold you up on that pint :-D or if we could make it a snakebite since tram took away my love of beer. I just really don't like the taste anymore. Almost a tragedy for a Dane ;-)

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by Icandothis10, Dec 06, 2011
Yes Bex, welcome!  I also know from experience that tapering is best if you need to function.  There are many here who can do the CT and I think it's awesome.  I personally couldn't.  I also had to "learn" how to taper.  I had to play with my doses and find out what I could take to keep the horrible withdrawals down and be able to function.  I went from 30+ a day to now 5.25.  I did have some sweats and uncomfortable times but they were nothing that I couldn't handle and it didn't last long at all.  I tapered about two or three pills every couple days until I got down to about 10 then I slowed the taper.  Realize that you will need plenty to taper with and the important thing to remember is not to be in a hurry.  If you are, it defeats the whole purpose.  I know I still have a ways to go since I am now at a lower dose but it can be done.  You just have to want it.  I highly recommend you come clean to anyone close to you, a family member or friend.  Make a goal and don't get upset with yourself if you end up going slower than you originally planned.  

This can be done and you can feel good.  If you mentally prepare yourself and stick to your goal, you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish!  Good luck!

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by fightorfight, Dec 07, 2011
As far as things tasting and smelling different, that has to do with the effects on the a-7 nicotinic receptor.   I used to smoke, and while taking Tram, it seemed to enhance the need for me to smoke--- certain things tasted better, and things smelled differently.   Thats another thing that takes time to get used to again, not the smoking bit, mind you, but more along the lines of taste/smell.    That'll come through in time to where it was before Tram, the fact that it hits that receptor along with hitting both the m1 and m3 muscarinic receptors means that effects the sense of smell and then taste.  

That also has some to do with the colds/sniffles etc that you seem to get after going through a bout of WD, after along period of use.   Your airways are now acting as they should, and in a way they're also trying to get out some of the allergens and other things that you may not have noticed while taking it.  

Tram is a very messy drug, hits way too many receptors in the brain and some adrenal subpathways--- All the more reason to not take it.  

Hope everyone is doing well.  

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by loopey2u, Dec 07, 2011
You're doing great, Ican.  Really great. From 30 to 5.5 a day is a real accomplishment and you should be proud of yourself.  

Hey FOF, I noticed I was smoking more while taking this crap too.  Like a lot more.  I didn't now if it was nervous energy or what, but if you say it affects the nicotine receptor I believe you.  Anyone else smoke more too??

Feeling pretty good, it's day 7.  Good except I woke up in the middle of the night with tachycardia that won't go away.  This isn't my first rodeo with it and it doesn't happen often, but when it does it makes me very, very anxious and panicky, which in turn probably speeds up the rate more...lol.

Tried all the tricks they showed me in the hosp.,/no luck.  I know it's not tram related, but it really scares the **** out of me.  Re-entrant supraventricular tachycardia is the name of it.  It's benign and not life threatening in any way, (was in the hosp. for it years ago and they ran every test in the book, my heart is fine) but freaky when you're heart is going about 180 bpm when you're laying down...lol

I have, have, have to go to the post office to ship out some Ebay stuff I sold and I'd really just rather stay home.  Maybe getting out is the best thing though, it'll divert my attention to something else.  

Have a great day everybody, and send some chi/prayers/whatever that this goes away SOON.  Thanks.


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by Sarabie, Dec 07, 2011
You are so right FoF. I smoked more on tram too. It was totally like when you are drinking alcohol and the brain says "a cigaret would be good here". I remember about a year ago my mom had back pains and I gave her 10 trams. She took one and after a short while she claimed that she had an urge to smoke all the time. Well I can only say that quitting tram is good for my economy all the way. Since I stopped, I've only smoked 10 cigarets  a day. It was at least 20 before. Don't know how the prices are in the States, but in Europe tobacco prices are crazy. 8 dollars for 19 cigarettes (they took a cigaret out of the pack instead of increasing the price once more).

Ican - glad to see you are back. We've missed you.

Well facing another day of being creative - this purse made of chips bags is a real challange. And it has to be done by Saturday. But it's nice to have something to do.

Love, Susie

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by loopey2u, Dec 07, 2011
I want to see that purse, it sounds neat!  

In my neighborhood, it's about $6.75 USD for a pack of smokes.  I usually drive 3 miles away to the next county over because they're a lot cheaper, around $4.60 a pack there.  There's still 20 in the pack.  I buy the 120's too, because they're so much longer and I can get two cigarette's out of 1 cigarette if that makes sense.


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by haves, Dec 07, 2011
Waking up on day 4. I had some weird dreams last nite. Slept like 10 hours. Very hard to motivate what to just get Back in bed. I have a headache and i still get flashes of chills and sweats but nit as much. I haven't had  a decent bowel movement yet. I really need for the whole scatter brain thing to be done with. I 'm going to a aa / na meeting later.hope everyone had a good day

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by 4leefclover, Dec 07, 2011
Hi all. I am so glad you are here. Been lurking for weeks. I,ve withdrawn from tram before and it wasn't pretty. Now back on. I took it off and on over the past several months weaning to off every few weeks. No w/d when I did that but now I've taken it daily for too long and I am hooked. I've weaned from 15 pills a day to 8 (except last night I took 3 extra because I was in a tiff with my partner) and that is my fear....that I'll screw up a wean by being a big baby emotionally.
I did c/t. Last time. I'd rather wean if I can but fearful,like I said that I'll fail.
I've been following all of you and am so inspired by your courage and support of one another
I used this post before and I was on it all hours of day and night (no sleep)
I started on effexor early sept low dose. Told my shrink that it might help me get off the trams
And it would have, too but I just kept taking them
He is the only one who knows.....but now you do too.....I need help
I plan on weaning so I don't have to take a week off of work
But if I have to I have to so.....I'll stick to 8 pills a day for a few days and then drop to 7
I worry about the liver damage.....and the hiding and lying feel really bad
I order it off the net....those people are on my @ss constantly. Calling and emailing like stalkers
Yuck....
Enough for now.   Keep going all of you...And know that I read all your outpourings with much love
Sasha



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by Gizmok, Dec 07, 2011
Hello to the new people, you can do this!!! This forums a great place to draw strength from and get the support and help that you need to get off this devil drug. To all the people that have been here a while, hi. You guys are doing great. :-)
@denise, I am so sorry your pain has come back girlie. I am right there with you in the same boat, I was hoping the pain would be gone and I could just get on with my life. I am so very depressed by this pain, I can't and won't do a long term pain medication again and the neurosurgeon is telling me that I have another problem besides herniated disks, I also have something called piriformis syndrome. He thinks that even having the surgery I will still be in pain and that I am going to have to find some way to manage the pain for the rest of my life.  This is to me the worst news ever. I was on opiates for about 4 years before I detoxed off of them 8 months ago, I was so proud of myself, because for me the medication had become a physcological thing as well as physiological.   And now I find out that this could be permanent pain. He told me that there is surgery for piriformis syndrome but that it is far from a guarantee that I will be out of pain afterwards. I guess only like 17% of the population suffers from this. Belch!!!! I know myself and I just don't think that I could take meds for the rest of my life and not hit rock bottom.
Keep fighting guys, life after addictions so beautiful it is the most worthwhile thing ever. Send positive thoughts my way, I am sinking into this depression and I don't know how to claw my way out.
Peace and love
Gizmok

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by loopey2u, Dec 07, 2011
I'm so sorry Gizmok.  To be given a diagnosis like that when all you want to be is pill free has to be crushing. Have you been to or can you go to a pain management workshop?  I know it probably sounds hokey, but some of the techniques can be very helpful.  My dad has gone through one of those after his surgery, and it helps him a lot.  He's had herniated discs in his neck that were operated on that still cause him pain.  I hope you can find one that will be useful to you.

Welcome 4leef.  I'm not good with a taper schedule because I'm too impatient, but there are a lot of smart people on this site, and I'm sure one of them would be glad to help you out.  Today is day 7 for me, I went c/t off of 3.5 pills a day and switched right to prozac.   It helped, but wasn't a cure all.  I wonder if because Tram is so molecularly similar to Tram (at least that's the impression I get from all the reading) it would do a better job with the w/d?  What did your shrink say, that you should wean?

I called my GP this morning at the advice of my mother and I'm glad I did.  The nurse told me to come right in.  Had an EKG in the office which confirmed tachycardia, and I made an appt. for an ultrasound of the heart next week.  If that shows something I go to a cardiologist for a holster monitor, but I know what this is and am sure the tests will come back fine.

The doc thinks it's anxiety, but is following up with tests just to be sure.  I am to take my xanax daily now if I need it or not, and if it keeps happening despite the xanax I will be prescribed a beta blocker.  Could be worse, so I feel lucky.   This is just a minor annoyance.  WTF though?  I've had anxiety and panic attacks for forever now, but I didn't think anxiety could show up like this.  I was sleeping and NOT panicky!  Strange too, because besides w/d's I've been very calm lately.  

So, it's still going and I get to lay around all day till it calms down.  

Seriously, this is stupid already.  All I want is my normal old boring life back......lol  

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by loopey2u, Dec 07, 2011
Good idea on the meeting haves.  Hope you feel better as the day goes on.  You're doing great.  One day at a time...



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by booba77, Dec 07, 2011
Hello everyone!  How are you?  I have been lurking, but haven't posted because I hate my android phone (constantly autocorrects), and work has been horribly busy.  I will be going cold turkey Monday or Tuesday, whenever I run out.  I am trying to get the house decorated and Christmas stuff done before I take the big leap.  I have had an on again-off again love affair with the trams for years.  The last time I went cold turkey was the Summer of 2010, then I got right back on it around Christmas of last year.  I guess I am a compulsive relapser.  I am so desperate to get off of this stuff though.  It has ruined my life.  Anyway, glad to be here among friends.

Loopey-My fiancee has horrible anxiety.  He can just wake up with the racing heartbeat.  It is really strange.  I feel like since you are a few days out, your anxiety may be amplified by the withdrawals.  I'm sure that is a horrible feeling.  I hope you can find some relief soon.

Haves-Congrats on sleeping 10 hours on day 4.  You must have really needed your sleep.  Hopefully you won't have insomnia too bad.  Mine was terrible going cold turkey in the past, but I always end up on a really high dose.  It is a great idea to go to a meeting.  You can never have too much support.

4Leef-I remember you Sasha!  I know we have been on here together off and on.  It is nice to see a familiar face, but I'm sorry to hear you feel victim to the relapse like I did.  I cannot taper, but if you can do it, I would try.  No one knows about my situation, so I can't have anyone give me the pills.  When I run out, I run out and that will be it.  It is nice to see you on here.

Bexx-Welcome to our family of warriors.  Please post often.  It is great that you have the support of your mom.  I encourage you to have her hold your meds and give them to you as needed.  That will really help the success of your tapering.  Please stay with us.  There is a wealth of knowledge to be found in these posts.  

Denise-I hate to hear you are still in pain!  I know the trams often causes pain, but I hate to hear that you are still in pain.  Do you think it could be rebound pain?  Either way, it *****. I'm glad you can get up out of bed easier off of the trams.  I hope that will be true for me as well.  It is sooooo hard to get up in the morning.....lol.

Icandothis-I just have to say congrats to being down to 5.25 from  such a high dose.  We are so proud of you!  Keep up the good work.  I so wish I could taper!  I have zero willpower.

FOF-I smoke a ton while on the trams too.  I crave and eat sugar like crazy too.  It is really strange.  I remember going cold turkey last time I didn't hardly smoke at all.  I just didn't want to.  I pretty much didn't want to do anything but lie in total darkness and silence in the bedroom.  I guess it won't be that way this time-I will have Christmas and a new kitten to contend with.  

Gizmok-I am so sorry to hear about your bad news.  I wish there was something reassuring I could say to make things better.  The pain management clinic that was suggested sounds interesting anyway.  If there is anything we can do to help, or if you just want to talk, let me know.  I know you are extremely depressed and disappointed.  I will keep you in my prayers-that goes for all of you!

Okay-now I have a total non-tram related question.  Have you ever had experience with or do you believe in psychics?  I only ask, because my brother has been missing for 2 months.  We thought initially that he had walked off, with the intention of never coming back.  He left all of his stuff at the house-wallet, cell phone, keys, etc.  He lives in Arizona, and is a hiker and climbing enthusiast.  Anyway, for the last 2 months, we have been going under the assumption that he left of his own accord.  we are still trying to find him (My parents and I live on the East Coast, which makes it hard).  Search and rescue (if you can call it that) has stopped searching.  There is snow on the ground out there and they really can't search.  Anyway, his neighbor, who is a psychic said that he was murdered by 2 men.  They came to rob him for drug money, and killed him.  We really didn't think anything of it, because he wasn't a really reknowned psychic or anything.  So then my best friend refers me to a psychic she knows who is legit.  My parents called her-she said my brother was murdered.  we told her minimal information about him and she didn't know about the other psychic we conferred with.  She gave details.  My mom belives her, but I don't think Dad does.  I don't know what to believe.  MY brother's crazy whack friend gave the police all of the information when he went missing because she lives in AZ.  From what she told police, they inferred that he left on his own.  My brother is a responsible, caring, extremely intelligent individual.  I really do believe foul play was involved.  My dad has survived 2 forms of cancer this year, and my brother would not leave because of the stress it would cause my parents.  He was murdered, and I do believe that part.  

So enough of my blabbing.  What do you guys think?  Have any of you ever worked with a psychic?  Were any of them ever spot on?  I was just curious.  

Thank you for being here warriors.  I am getting nervous about jumping off CT on Monday, but when I think about all of you and what have overcome, I feel like I can handle anything.  I love you guys.  Keep the faith.  

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by JULIUS23, Dec 07, 2011
hey you guys.. how is everybody doing today??/ yea this irritable bowel syndrome is really kicking my bc of the tramadol and i really wish their was sumthn to keep all dis nerve stomach pain from hurting along with the upset stomach.. it feels like after i eat my stomach goes haywire lol... but yea @ denise i see wut u mean pertaining to magic kingdom from disney land bc i truly wish this fog n my brain wud go away... i guess this rainy day outside will put u n one of them moods... hopefully tomorrow will be better than today and hopefully i can get a job soon to keep me busy bc this boring mind set Shhht is for the birds... god bless yile n keep up the good work!!!

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by rj0923, Dec 07, 2011
Hi it's rj I tried to go ct again cause I was doing ok on 2 pills. Well I had a stupid seizure. I was on 31 hours of no tram and then early morning I thought I was just getting another bad brain zap, but this was different. hard to explain and don't remember much. My husband knew exactly what was going on cause in his line of work he sees them all the time. Here's the embarressing part i wet myself and the bed. My doctor is now taking this tramadol stuff a little more serious now, cause I have never had a seizure in my life, she even wanted me to go back up to 3-4 pills. I said HELL NO getting down to 2 pills was hard enough. I will say I did drop from 3 pills to 2 in less than a week then tried to cold turkey. I have to take some of the blame for this stupid seixure. But, I am staying at 2 pills a day now, I take one at 7pm and 7 am and no more attempts to try and ct. I will go down 1/4 of a pill a week. I have MS and I am so lucky this seizure did not cause a relaps. A multple sclerosis relaps I mean. I have been in remission for 5 years.

God you guys i just want off this pill so bad and I just want my life back. Even being on just 2 pills feels like I am in a constant state of withdrawl. I hate the depression, the crying spells and having no energy. I feel like my happy button is broken and won't be fixed until I am off this completely. At times i feel I am in a losing battle and i want to see the light at the end of this dark sad tunnel.  I don't want my holidays ruined by this crap. I feel ever since I started this taper it's all my lfie is about now.

thanks for listening just having a bad day.

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by denised1982, Dec 07, 2011
booba- I am so sorry about your brother. Are you okay? If he did die, I hope he did minimal, if any, suffering. I give you my condolences.I dunno about the psychic thing. I know some claim to see ghosts. But you never know who is legit these days or who is really out to make a buck. I don't know what to think about it, it would be arrogant for us to say it was impossible, because anything is possible. I have had an experience with a psychic and she was vague to say the least. It was for novelty reasons anyway.

Gizmok- Im sorry for your recent diagnosis... I hope maybe the doctor is wrong. I keep my prayers in for you.

Trams made me smoke a WHOLE lot more, over 1 pack a day. Cigarettes cost 4.90 per pack and I smoke Marlboro full flavor 100's. I was craving cigarettes. It kept me going, and I lost weight. I was sweating so much that I was constantly having to have something to drink.

I'm not sure if it is rebound pain, or pain just because. I was self medicating for pain. Then pain and a buzz. I have to watch how long I sit and stand and lie down or I will hurt again. I was lying on the heating pad last night until I got burned. Yay, me... Sh*t..

It helped me when I was like, f*ck it
It's time to go CT. This is Bullshitake.
Im done. I went ahead and made the doctors appointment because my therapist recommend me not stopping the medication until I went to the doctor. They really don't for pain anymore anyway unless I take at least 8 at a time. I was worried, too about my liver, but luckily my liver panel came back normal. Now I have that statin cholesterol medication to take to kill my liver. Side effects of that are muscle pain or and hepatic problems. Now, how you gonna give me something that causes muscle pain?? Ash hole. I'm gonna ask him that. Especially if my legs hurt really bad. I will take myself off that poison. Heart attack, or liver failure? I'll take the heart attack, at least it's quit if it's a fatal one. Liver failure tends to make one suffer. I don't guess he believes in CoQ10, Red yeast rice, and fish oil.

If anyone is having the rebound pain, it may take a while but here's what I'm on, it seems to help:
Source Naturals brand Fibro Response multi-vitamin
Sublingual B complex
Source Naturals brand Magnesium Malate PRN
Turmeric (w/ bromelain and black pepper)
CoQ10- 100mg capsules x2
MegaRed krill oil 2 capsules.

I might up the dosage of krill oil if I can't find a better source, and maybe Astaxathin 4mg.

I will catch up with y'all later. I'm takin care of the sick stepchild.

Love and healing,
Denise






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by booba77, Dec 07, 2011
Denise-The stepchild is still sick?  The little guy must be in a bad way.  I hope you both feel better soon.  I don't know much about the krill oil.  I know taking fish oil is good, and I have heard that krill oil is great as well.  I am not taking anything but the trams right now, but I have all of the aminos/vitamins/immodium, etc. for when I jump next week.  I agree-it is hard to know if the psychics are a scam.  We reached out to this lady though, which makes me feel better.  We just want closure.  My mom wants to be able to move on with her life and heal, and it is hard because we are still dealing with his disappearance on a daily basis.  

It is kind of like rj023 was saying.  Since you have been on this taper it feels like it is all your life is about now.  I feel that way about my brother.  I so badly want him to be alive, but realistically, I doubt he is, and now it is time to take care of my parents.  

RJ-I hear you.  I'm sure the taper does feel like the only thing going on.  I don't want to be in major withdrawals for Christmas either, but unfortunately Christmas will be rolling around about the time my lethargy and depression would kick in.  Please stay on the forum and keep posting.  We will all be here supporting each other.  If some of you are going away for the holidays, or will not be able to access a computer, we will miss you.  I never go anywhere, so I'm sure you will be sick of me by New Years.  

Julius-Oh the irritable bowel is the worst.  It is like anything you eat or drink goes right through you.  It was easy for me to go cold turkey last time because I threw up a few times and was on the toilet for days.  I even went to the doctor up the road and got some sort of antidepressant for my stomach.  It wasn't immodium, but it was something to calm my stomach down.  I believe it was the tiniest dose of amiltriptylene.  It really helped me with the initial physical symptoms of withdrawal.  

Have any of you ever heard of a med that actually "reboots" the pain receptors in your brain?  Years ago when I started taking trams and realized I was addicted, I looked up ways to get off of it, and I remember running across an article online about a medication that was given by a doctor in their office that actually stripped and reset your pain receptors, so that you had no signs of withdrawal at all.  Kind of like being able to start over as if it never happened.  Maybe I dreamed it though, because I have not been able to find it since.  Oh well-it would have been too good to be true!

Much love you all of you!!!

Christmas is different for me now that I have my daughter.  All of my time and effort is spent making sure that Christmas morning is magical.  Well it will be weird this year, because we are picking up her gift Saturday-her new little kitten Sadie.  We are all looking forward to our new addition (Don't tell my 14 year old cat Bobo, he doesn't know yet).  

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by haves, Dec 07, 2011
Update - I'm past 100 hours and while I don't feel like I'm in constant withdrawL I do still feel very tired and my stomach doesn't like alot of food every thing I ate today ran right through me.my headaches have started to subside a bit.still can retain much of what I read. It's going to make for a long bad week of finals at school. My wife is very upset because basically I'm nit worth much help around the house. Each day I try and do a little something more to help lesson her burden.

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by Icandothis10, Dec 07, 2011
haves - I'm really sorry.  Does your wife know what you're going through?  Maybe if she knew that you really aren't well, that you actually need to be taken care of, it would help?  You need to take care of yourself right now mentally and physically, screw the house!  I'm sorry but you are in a very fragile situation right now and don't need any added stress.

RJ - Don't feel bad at all.  Tapering is a long process but it works.  Just remember not to drop too quickly because it defeats the purpose.

Denise - (My name is Denise too :-)) Be very easy on your body.  I'm sorry you're in pain.  

Julius, Immodium AD is actually wonderful for symptoms other than the stomach.  Take as many as you need.

booba - Are you sure you want to put your body through that hell?  I'm not trying to talk you out of your decision.  However, with the amount you're taking, it really isn't safe for you to just stop.  Do you think you can at least try to take a couple less a day even at a fast taper?  

Well, I'm wrapping it up here in the states and I'm sure it will take about a freaking week to get to the other side of the planet but I'll still be doing my taper.  I have a confession, I took one extra pill today because of my horrible headache.  I don't think I'll bring my dose down again until I get there and get settled.  

Hugs to everyone

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by Sarabie, Dec 07, 2011
Booba i also had a bad craving for sugar while on trams. At least that's what I thought untill I Got off them. It was nothing compared to my first two months off tram. I actually dreamed about candy bars when I was sleeping. And my daily 3 cans of coke became 5-6 cans. It's weaning off again and I'm at 4 cokes a day and no candy bars :-) I just gave my body what it demanded.

My appetite is back to what's normal for me. The two first months off tram I found myself constantly eating something. But now it's back to cereal in the morning, a slice of bread and a piece of fruit for lunch and a light dinner. So I didn't really gain weight as I feared.

Hang in there everyone!!!! It's so worth the struggle when it's over and you don't have to worry about your next prescribtion or shipment. Life gets so much easier.

Love, Susie

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by Icandothis10, Dec 07, 2011
Susie - That's what I'm really looking forward to!  Not having to worry about making sure I have my pills, when they're coming in, how I'm going to get them etc.  They're just becoming harder to get and I don't see it getting easier.  Look at BeenHere....$150.00 to get his pills.  They really do control so many aspects of our lives.

I ordered what should be my last bottle.  Even not having to worry about ordering them every two weeks is nice.  

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by denised1982, Dec 07, 2011
booba- the only drugs I have ever heard of "rebooting" the opiate receptors in the brain are ketamine and dextromethorphan.

Ketamine is a dog tranquilizer. It's street name is Special K, K, Kit-Kat, whatever. It will put you to the brink of death and people have out of body experiences, commonly refered to being in a "K hole". It's illegal to posses it in the states unless you're a veterinarian. It reverses opiate tolerance.

Dextromethorphan- is an antitussive (cough suppressant). Robotussin DM. Drug addicts use this to help withdrawal from opiates. It works at a much slower rate than ketamine.

Hope that helps...

<3 Denise

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 07, 2011
I was taking Robotussin when this started and wasn't yet aware it was WD..that didn't do anything for me except stop the runny nose....I was so hoping it would at least knock me out but nope.

Today was a good day for me; not sweating as bad as I was...I am so happy about that!

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by rj0923, Dec 07, 2011
Does anyone know what helps with the depression.  i have tried  antidepressents in the past like prozac celexa wellbutrin (that one really put me over the top). I know exercise helps big time. i was a competitive bodybuilder for 10 years until MS took that away from me, but i still exercise no matter what and that is why I do so well having MS and have been in remission for 5 years and having a positive attitude helped too. Now since i have been getting of the devil pill I have no energy(feel like I am functioning at 70% ) and trying so hard to stay positive. I take very good care of myself also with healthy eating  and good supplements. I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's not so much mood, but dark thoughts and real feelings of despair.

I never had any kind of real depression until i got MS (many people with the disease need antidepressents) and after the docs put me on the tramadol for pain cause didn't want any narcotics....LOL. my depression slowly went too.   I now know why I had no problems all these years with depression, cause I was on Tramadol.  Oh how it all makes sense now. Well anyway any good advice from all you smart people would be great.

Booba.....please be very carefull going ct and not be alone in case it gets ugly  medically. What happened to me having a seizure going ct from 2 pills make me worry about all of us gettting off this (it's the momma bear in me). My doctor said my brain has depended on this for 7 years and i guess I short circuited or some stupid medical reason. All I know is i never want to **** myself or the bed again.

Denise... I am now craving a kit kat the candy bar.



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by fightorfight, Dec 07, 2011
Evening guys and gals,

4leef-   Proud of you for coming back and trying to get off these things again.   Let the Effexor do what it can for you and then start your taper as you planned.   I'm not sure if you've had success with a Taper before, or if you went off C/T before (I honestly can't remember).   All I do know is that you've beaten this drug before, and I know you can do so again.   I have faith in you and your ability to combat this drug.    Keep posting, we're always here, and always ready to help-- best we can at least :).

Booba-  Going off what Denise was saying--- Ketamine and DXM are dissasosciative drugs that share the property of NMDA antagonism, thats actually the property that helps you from preventing tolerance to drugs that hit dopergenic sites.   Both of those drugs are messy--- Ketamine, obviously, as you probably know is used in veterinary medicine.   It was once used on humans (another attempt at finding a non-opiate opiate) but the psychoactive properties are far too problematic.   DXM is the same way, smaller doses act as a cough suppresant--- then you have bigger doses that act as an antagonist,  again a big dose also causes psychoactive episodes, hence the "Robotripping" stories of the last decade.    

There are now more specific drugs that just do NMDA antagonism, like Nameda/Memantine.   However, its use as a tolerance prevention mechanism isn't done outside of clinical testing.   Its primarily used as an Alzheimer's medication.   NMDA antagonism again, slows tolerance--- it doesn't reverse it.  In fact, Tramadol is an NMDA antagonist as well (although its efficacy is slight).  

I think what you may have been thinking of was Bupe, Suboxone, or Naltroxone.    All of which are highly competitive opiate/oid drugs.   They've been used for a few years clinically to help people get off pain medications on an outpatient basis--- you essentially have to be in mild to moderate withdrawal or else the medicine will cause W/D as it strips the mu opiod sites and replaces them with their own chemical.     Now, I've heard of people going on Subs to get off Tramadol--- but with that comes its own share of problems.   Its expensive, you have to be constantly monitored by a rehab doctor, and with it being a strong opiate in and of itself--- you have to eventually come off of it too.   I wouldn't recommend it for Tramadol recovery unless situations were dire.    

Hopefully everybody is doing well in their own taper or w/d battle.   I'm 40 days out now, and definately feel much better than I did even 10 days ago in terms of my mental state.   I even went out last night and had a good time with friends-- laughing harder than I have in months.   That spark is coming back, and it will for you too.  

Take care all!

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by denised1982, Dec 08, 2011
FoF-- The dude at the head shop told me that if I have taken any opiates the kratom wouldn't work. I know it is used on opiate withdrawals, and I know if you take an entire package of it you would still be "safe, and all it would do is upset your stomach" (quote from the headshop dude). It's not an opiate because it isn't derived from opium. So... what is it considered? They really do need to research it more as an alternative to opiate therapy, especially those who are on an opiate rotation. It is very expensive and you have to take a lot to feel the effects, but hey, it's just another option out there, in my honest opinion anyway. I am glad the spark is coming back for you! :)

Booba-- The stepkid is still sick, but he's back in school. Asthmatic bronchitis and right ear infection. I also spoke to the doctor because of behaviors he's having, against his dad's will. I don't care. Whatever he's doing, it's causing his dad to have to attend a conference at his school soon, bless his heart. Yes, I said "bless his heart" because that's the nice southern way of saying he is or acts stupid. There. I said it. :) I am mean, but I have never had any experience with children, he's a sweet, loving boy but he whines, and whines and whines some more. I told him he's gonna have to suck it up, and be tough, because he's a boy, and that builds character. His dad is totally in denial about everything (his kid's mental state). I just don't want DHS to show up at my door, we're having a lot to deal with anyway.

Icandothis---Well, hello from a fellow Denise, aren't we just the most kick *** people we know? Well, me, not lately. I'm trying to be easy on my body, but I work a sh*tty job. So, whatever I do, it's gonna hurt. I gotta find something else and I have been looking since 2008-9. There's no good work down here, unless I want to be a CNA somewhere else, and f*ck no I don't. I'm over it. I deserve better and I'm more intelligent than that, I have more potential. I need to get my ADN and go work somewhere until I decide what I want to do, whether it's to stay an RN or do something else. I like to help people but I don't like to help people. Where I work people expect me to pacify them, and that shucks, because it's me by myself with 20 other people, so it can get hectic. When they stay on the call light and I can't do anything about them, for example, they hurt or can't sleep and they have no physician's order for anything. Then they stay on the light to just to whine to me. I feel bad, but what can I do? I'm just a p*ss on, an a*swiper. It is a stressful job, to say the least. I can honestly say that I don't handle stress well.  And I am not a smart*ss  to them, I take care of business and tell them the truth, but most of them have Alzheimer's Disease or some other form of dementia, so I may have to go in there 10 times or so to re-explain everything I explained to them before. This might last for days. When they're "on it"... They're on it!!

Everyone else, good luck and take care!
<3Denise



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by haves, Dec 08, 2011
Day 5 - woke up in a panic after having another night of weird scary dreams . It took me a few seconds to settle down. I've been drinking alot of Ginger ale as it seems to help my gi issues. Hoping for a surge of energy soon . Also hoping to make it to the gym and maybe sweat it out in the sauna. Hope everyone here as a better day than yesterday. We can stop abusing our minds and bodies. We are all loved.

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by denised1982, Dec 08, 2011
Awesome, haves! Day 5. I'm sorry about waking up in a panic. Ginger is great for the GI issues, so keep that up. WE ARE PROUD OF YOU!!!!
We are loved, you are so right! Keep on taking care of business!

<3 Denise

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by booba77, Dec 08, 2011
FOF-Denise-Thank you for the info on the meds!  I don't think I will be trying either of those.....lol.  All it takes to get better is time-and maybe a good AD.  And the immodium of course.

Haves-It is a shame that your wife isn't more understanding.  Maybe have her read this forum to get a better understanding of what you are going through.  I understand where she is coming from as well, but knowing how you feel, I think she should really cut you some slack.  Have you tried anything homeopathic for the anxiety?  I know hylands makes something for tension, I think it is called Calms Forte or something like that.  You could try to take 3 or so tablets before bed (I think they dissolve under the tongue), and maybe it will keep you from waking up in a panic.  It is a more natural way to deal with anxiety rather than taking a benzo which is hard to withdraw from.

Icandothis-Congrats on ordering your last bottle.  That is wonderful!!! How is the taper going?  I don't blame you for staying at the same dose until your settled.  I feel added stress could aggravate your withdrawals.

RJ023-Thank you for being concerned about me.  I may do a rapid taper.  I am surprised you had a seizure coming off of 2 a day.  Do you think the MS may have contributed to it?  It is actually pretty rare to have a seizure even coming off cold turkey from a high dose.  I did have a seizure once when I was taking upwards of 30 trams a day.  Scariest thing ever-per my husband.  I don't remember any of it, of course.  I slept for days after it though.  

Denise-That is shame he is still sick, it is good he is back in school though.  Before I had my daughter, I didn't have anything really to do with kids either.  I never babysat.  My brother was 6 years older than me, and none of my friends had little sisters or brothers.  I was essentially unprepared for what it would be like.  Well, she is spoiled rotten, but I blame only myself.  She is extremely defiant and knows how to push my buttons.  On the flipside, I love her with all my heart.  She and my mom are my go-to soul mates.  If I don't spend at least an hour with each of them a day I get DTs.  I am with my daughter all the time.  She never has had a babysitter.  If I clean the house, sometime I will take her to Grandma's, but she is always with me.  You never truly know how much you can love someone until you have children.  

FOF-I am so glad you are getting your spark back!  It is great that you went out with friends and laughed so much.  Laughter is so good for the soul.  Humor and prayers are what is keeping me and my parents afloat at this time.  Thanks again for the drug info.  You are such a wealth of information.  We are truly blessed to have you on here.

I am starting to get really nervous about jumping, and all of the thoughts about ordering another bottle are starting.  Please-talk me out of it!!!  My brain just keeps telling me to put off jumping until after Christmas, and that withdrawing during the holidays will be too much for me and my family.  I should have known this would happen.  So I need you guys to tell me to be strong-to stop being a baby.  I may try to do a rapid taper starting this weekend and then end up running out Tuesday or Wednesday, so the worst of the acute WDs will occur over the weekend.  What do you think?  I know you are concerned about me coming off a high dose cold turkey, and that there is a risk for seizures.  I don't want to have a seizure, because if anything happens to me, my parents will be so lost.  So will my daughter.  This is probably also my brain trying to convince me to stay on the trams.  I know that I will have stress no matter if it is now or after the holidays.  I do want my family to have a wonderful Christmas.  I was hoping the holiday would give my parents a break from dealing with all of the stress and trauma of my brother missing and maybe being murdered.  They deserve some solace.  When I jump I will tell everyone i have the flu, which is easy to believe because of the temperature changes, tummy upset, and constant diarrhea, headaches, muscle pains, etc.  I'm just not sure I want to go through that while trying to videotape my kid playing with her new kitten or opening her presents.  See-there goes my damned brain again keeping me on the trams.  I need strength, motivation and resolve to quit.  I can't keep going on like this!

Someone asked about a good AD-It may have been RJ.  I am going to take wellbutrun when I jump, mainly because I have been on it before and it helped me.  It also helps with the energy issues.  It can cause anxiety though, so if you have any anxiety or panic attacks, wellbutrin will not be right for you. A lot of other people say prozac is helping them a lot.  I know effexor is similar to the AD in tramadol, but it is a ***** to get off of, so that may not be right for you.  I know FOF is taking prozac, so maybe he can better explain its properties and how they affect or assist your brain to adjust to the changes.  He may have even talked about it earlier in this journal, I can't remember.

Well, I better get back to work.  Have a great day!

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 08, 2011
Sorry about the dream Haves...I did have one night exactly like that. I honestly felt like I was gonna have a heart attack till I realized where I was and that I was ok...pretty freaky. I hope you feel better soon, hang in there!

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by 4leefclover, Dec 08, 2011
Hi booba, Fof, Denise, haves, Rj, sarabee, ican, Julius and all who read here and share
Thanks for the warm welcome back!
Booba I do believe there are people who can feel energy... the universal energy, I suppose we all can but they seem able
To tune in to it more sensitively... I am so sorry about your brother....he sounds really cool, and I can tell how much you miss him.....siblings are a Big deal......it is hard to grieve when you don't know
I am not doing very well on the wean
I notice periods during the day where I am so resolved.... and then later I find myself trying to justify and rationalize my use (and abuse) of this substance
Not good. But maybe part of my journey off... I think I need to do c/t and am trying to figure a time to take off work and do that (meanwhile keeping my daily use as low as I have it now 8 aday...
I could not take any time off until after the first of Jan. That is not too distant
I know what a struggle it is dealing with w/d from tramadol. You are all doing great and even tho I relapsed I am certain the enslavement to the little white pills is horrible emotionally physically and spiritually
It is a rough ride out of the snare of physical addiction...the emotional attachment I have toward "having something" is tough to let go of for me
What a baby
Keep going all
You are a great source of comfort for me as I mentally prepare to "jump off"
Sasha

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by 4leefclover, Dec 08, 2011
And TT too!!!

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by DamTram, Dec 08, 2011
Guess who's back....?

Lost my s*** 4 weeks before the end of my first quarter of grad school, and convinced myself that the only way I'd have the energy or confidence to finish everything that needed to be done was to get back on Tramadol.  This, of course, only after having been put on it after a colonoscopy and was tricked into feeling more energy and confidence on it and thinking I would need it to continue.

I am not taking my entire winter break to recover from this...technically a third time, but really only a second.  the third time...I'm not sure why, but it was ok because it was only 3 weeks.  This time it was 4 weeks, but it got up into the 30's for a few days, there.  Now I'm at least at 20.  Cold Turkey starts Saturday morning.  I'm also on Seroquel and Klonopin for sleep, so hope to start to drop from the 75mg and 2 mg, respectively, after I've crawled out of the initial hole.  

I'm looking forward to 'the undying' that I experienced the first time...getting better, little by little, and starting to feel like I'm actually good enough as I am, for me; that I don't need chemicals to change what's different about me.  I'm very much looking forward to that.  

So...I'll check back with you guys later on Saturday, when Tramaggedon sets in.  I mean, if I can even type.

I'm so glad you're all still here.  I pray that we never have to do this again.

-DamTram

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by booba77, Dec 08, 2011
Tramageddon-great word!

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by Sarabie, Dec 08, 2011
Booba - there's NEVER a good time to stop. There will always be something. Christmas, birthday, something at work etc. If you really wanna go CT, just get it overwith. And do it now, while you have the energy and your mind is set for it. If you don't wanna CT afterall, please start your taper now. Don't wait untill after Christmas.

Denise - it's incredible you can take care of someone else going through CT from a high dose. I couldn't even take care of myself. What's your secret?

RJ - a seizure from that low dose? That sounds so scary. Like ImDone claimed ealier - never heard of anyone getting seizures after quitting. But I'm sorry you had to be the first one. Especially since you had come this far. Hopefully your doc gives you a full checkup just in case.

Loopey - I'll send you a photo of the purse when it's done. I'm afraid I won't make it in time. But I have a friend who'll help me tomorrow. It's supposed to be a birthday present and delivered Saturday, so I should be working on it 24/7. But I'm much more up to something fun.

DamTram - welcome back. We'll be here when you need it :-)

It's not possible to order tram or any other opiod meds online in Denmark and I have told my doc to put in my file that I mustn't get tramadol again, no matter what. The file is online, so all doc's can see it, when entering my social security number, so they won't give it to me if I ever need hospital care. So I should have a decent chance of staying clean. A good thing, cause  I can easily imagine myself thinking "well one pill won't hurt me" when all of this is forgotten.

Keep strong and keep fighting guys and gal's :-D

Love, Susie

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by rj0923, Dec 08, 2011
As soon as i kick the tram devil  will be having a full physical. I have also taken myself off all supplements too, because the combination of all the different stuff like st johns wort, 5 htp, all the aminos and other stuff too could have contributed to the seizure.Just not taking anymore chances and I am doing good now.

I can't complain anymore about depression and no f***ing energy, not after reading all the other stories here. So many of you have it way much harder, and it makes me want to be A success story so I can help you and others who look for support. We are on this journey together and will help each other.

Sarabie while I am writng this I keep loking up and I see the pretty blue box that says Saraie is clean 85 days on Dec 08. My goal is to have my own box on here and see RJ0923 is clean.

Hang in there everyone WE ALL ROCK!!  

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by rj0923, Dec 08, 2011
oh ya....Booba I was so caught up in my own self pity last night, I forgot to say how sorry i am about your brother and what your family is going through. I also read about what the physics had to say. I myself do believe in physics and mediums, but I also believe in miracles. God Bless you and your family.

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by denised1982, Dec 08, 2011
sarabie- I think since my wd effects as well as my addiction was more psychological than physical... I had no diarrhea or GI upset, just the psychological aspects.. Of course, I had the brain zaps, depression, insomnia... But I'm on celexa for the depression and it helps with brain zaps and trazadone for sleep.

My stepkid's grandma wound up checking him out of school today, because he threw up after lunch. I dunno what's gonna happen. I hope he gets better soon. :(

I just kind of moved on, so to speak, with the tramadol. I just said kiss my ash to the drug. I was like, no more. I had to because I have things in my life that I have to live for and I did not want to be a slave to tramadol. I'm just in pain, but I would rather deal with pain than act crazy and having memory lapses. I used to remember everything. Now that's shot to sh*t. Maybe there's hope.

Everyone is kicking ***, we rule!

<3 Denise


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by legaljunky, Dec 08, 2011
Hi Booba- First I want to say what you and your family are going thru with your brother missing is so awful.  I'm praying for all of you.

And now I'll add my 2 cents about taper and CT and confuse you a little more! Ultimately you know you are the only one who can decide what is best for you, we're all different.  I did a long slow taper and when I had something important to do and I needed to have my brains and emotions intact, I stayed at  a level and didn't go back to tapering till it was over.  I had t write a speech about my art and then give the speech.  I couldn't think straight when I was tapering and I was so grumpy I flew off the handle over very minor things. Not to mention all the other symptoms that came with WD. So just make your own decision and stick to it.

I wish you and your family the best- miracles do happen!

This is such a difficult time for all the Tram fighters to do battle.  Until very recently I felt like I wasn't the person I was before taking Tram and I was afraid everyone could see I was crazy.  Well I don't feel crazy anymore and life on the winning side of Tramadevil is beautiful!  You'll see, you'll get here, just don't give up the fight!  

Love, perseverance and strength!

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 08, 2011
I just want to say yall are doing great and keep it up. I also want to say thank you for the support. I am glad I found yall or one I never would have realized what was wrong with me...I probably would have kept on taking the stuff and getting sick without knowing what was really up....today is 20 days...10 more and it'll be a month.

So far, I am still not in pain...I don't know what can be done if it comes back but I know I dont want to do this again...I would rather be in pain then go here again.

Again, thank you all so very much :)

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by rj0923, Dec 08, 2011
Dammit  I put my Christmas tree lights on backwards. I just got done and went to plug the bottom lights into the outlet  and it was the female end no prong thingies  to plug in the wall. If I would have plugged in the angel first like I always do at the top I would have noticed the 2 male ends.  Crap I'm going to bed!!

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by fightorfight, Dec 09, 2011
Evenin again guys and gals,

I'll try and address everything as best I can, got out of work late so this may be a hurried post.   Well as hurried as I can be at least.   Brevity isn't one of my strong suits.

DamTram-  Another Trench buddy--- while I'm sorry that you have to go through this process again, I'm so happy to see and read from another familiar face/name.   Make use of this place as best as you can.   You're a strong one for sure, and I'm proud of you for posting and getting ready to make the jump.    Be good to yourself, and things will come back to you fast.   I hope for nothing but good days, after the initial few bad ones.   :).

Denise - Opium is just a plant that effects Opiod sites in the brain--- other plants/herbs can effect those sites as well.  Kratom is broken down primarily into its base alkaloids,  a property it would share with Ibogaine, Yohimbe and other tryptamines.  The primary one that does the "work", so to speak, is 7-hydroxymitragynine.   Its extremely dose dependent, but it will effect the A-2 alpha-adrenergic receptor, giving it a mild stimulant property.   It then binds to delta opioid receptors, something akin to Demerol although with less potency, with increased dose it then finally binds to the mu opiod receptors, and takes on the sedative properties that other classes of painkillers would.     Its an extremely interesting plant--- and I agree that work should be done on trying to quantify and qualify its usage as a detox method.      Its interesting to note that Ibogaine (another psychoactive dissasocciative) is also used, although not in the states, for people to get off addictive medications.    I'm sure there is a lot of work to be done in that area--- although Ibogaine's scheduling in the states would make it nearly impossible to study.    Kratom however, could be, and hopefully the analog act wouldn't suppress research.      It would not surprise me, not in the least, that Kratom would take on that property----   Kava Kava does something similar in high, potent, preparations in regards to its similarity to Benzos.    Fascinating stuff really.     Wow, sorry for the Tangent.

As far as A/Ds and Tramrecovery-   Prozac and certain other drugs make use of the same liver enzyme that Tramadol does,   CYP2D6.    Prozac being a key drug as it strongly inhibits that enzyme.   I can only surmise that throughout the course of Tram usage, that particular liver enzyme has been getting a lot of use--- Prozac essentially takes that enzyme and says "Nope, this is mine now, I can't let anything else touch my enzyme!".

In actual practice it takes on two different forms:  during W/D it allows the body to still make use of that enzyme without Tramadol being present-- I'm not sure if that does anything psychologically, but physiologically it basically allows the body to keep that level of use up.   It translates, seemingly (and again this is anecdotal) into a lessened W/D pattern.   You still have to deal with opiate binding sites in the gut and the back, along with norepinephrine spikes-- but it does take some parts of the equation out of the mix.  

There are also reports of people who have started Prozac while on Tram--- Prozac so strongly inhibits that enzyme that very little Tram can be metabolized by the body.   This actually brings on W/D.   Chemically, Prozac will not allow Tram to be used to any degree.    Thats why there are warnings about taking Prozac with any serotonin releasing agent,  the risk of serotonin syndrome is very real if someone is increasing the dose of Tram or any other empathogenic drug (like MDMA).because Prozac prevents most of the metabolism, and you're left with chemicals that can't pass the blood brain barrier and cause significant problems.  

Prozac isn't the only A/D to do this, but its the one that I'm the most versed in--- Effexor also makes use of the same enzyme.  

Wow, sorry for the book guys--- hopefully in there you find some information that is helpful.   While there are chemicals and drugs out there that will help during W/D, the main factor in anything is time.    Time spent off the drug equals a better and better ability and cognitive profile.   Getting that time, and then making use of it properly, is the real battle, and its one we all face.  

Keep posting,  Keep thinking, and be kind to yourselves.    
FoF

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 09, 2011
FoF - I completely agree with your analysis on Kratom.  It is very interesting, esp that it is only banned in Thailand (where its produced) and maybe one other country.  The stuff is expensive, but it would be a good tool to use in the withdrawal process, however sense it does act as an opiate you would have to be very controlled and dose correctly to avoid just making your tolerance actually rise during a taper, or just prolong a WD.  I would go on and off tram rather easily when I had kratom around.  It wasnt as strong so your still somewhat down in the dumps, but I could just switch over.  However, I ran out once and the WDs sucked, but I also think I was mentally vulnerable at that time a well.  I only went through 4 days until I got more and just kept taking them, then I would end up ordering tram again.

Kava Kava, the paste you can order that is very concentrated (tastes like crap), does do... something.  I know that was a broad comment but I ordered some of it, I took a dosage that was more than recommended.  I remember 20 minutes later actually feeling kinda weird and sweating, almost sick.  I just laid down and passed out asleep and was fine in the morning. I have taken it more times since then but havent had any real feelings like that first time.  I would say Phenibut would work for most people in the same way, but it takes awhile to kick in.  Both of which are very legal and easy to obtain.  Phenibut might even be in a supplement store.  Pure kava kava would need to be ordered online, its different from the herbal capsules.

So I am still in Dubai, I have another exam to take tomorrow.  If I pass it, that will be 4 exams passed in 7 days.  However, all this class is doing is giving me the questions so I can memorize the answers so its not even rewarding.  I am actually ready to get out of here, my brain cant take it.  I am surprised I have been able to retain information, however I do take adderall so that is probably whats helping me.  

You guys ever notice how tired tram makes you the next day?  Today is my off day and I could of slept all day.  Its always like that on my off days.  I used to be an early bird...It also makes you tired when it starts wearing off, at least for me.  It gives a boost in the beginning but after awhile you get so tired.  

Talking about serotonin syndrome, I thought I made a big mistake a few days ago.  I always put my medication out the night before and take it first thing in the morning, its a habit I need to stop but havent yet.  Anyways, I take around 6-8 tram in the morning, sometimes less if I think I can.  Anyways, I didnt really feel them while I was getting ready.  I dont get euphoric or anything, but I can tell.  Since I am traveling I have all my meds in a little pouch, I also have lexapro but I dont take it a lot because of my tram usage.  However, I thought I accidentally took 6-8 lexapro instead of the tram.  I was pretty nervous because I know serotonin syndrome can be bad.  However I turned out fine so it must of been tram, however it was scary and it just keeps reminding me that I need to stop before something does happen...

I was really hoping I could keep up my taper pattern during the training, however its actually made it worse.  Its one on one training so its constant attention all day every day.  Then cramming for exams, I have been taking more just to de-stress (even though it doesnt help)...  I have one more week and I am done thank goodness.



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by booba77, Dec 09, 2011
Good morning all!  How are you?  First I just want to thank all of you for your continued prayers and support.  I really appreciate it.  We are now dealing with a bunch of psychics on my brother's disappearance.  We had initially only contacted 2-one lady mom went to school with, and one was referred to my from my best friend.  My brother's neighbor was also a psychic and my husband's friend's boss is one and he is now working on it.  Apparently my grandfather who passed away a year and half ago is a very vocal ghost, which I find quite humorous.  He sent a message to Chris (my hubby) and told him to not worry about him (my brother) because he (Chris) had his own problems.  My pop-the eternal smartass!  Anyway the psychic didn't know anything about Chris or my grandfather.  We only told him my brother's name and that was all he got from it.  At this point, our heads are spinning from all of this and we are exhausted and snappy and pretty much falling apart.  I had a breakdown last night.  It is just too much stress, and I have spent so much time with my parents lately that we are sick of each other and totally on each other's nerves.  I'm going to give them some space this weekend.  This whole thing has taken up my whole life for 2 months, and I know it sounds terrible but I just want a break, or something to look forward to.  We pick up my daughter's new kitten tomorrow, which is exciting.  I will address some of you who responded to me.

Sarabie-Thank you!  I needed someone to tell me to just go cold turkey and get it the hell over with!  thank you for that.  I am going to run out probably Tuesday or Wednesday, depending on if I can handle a rapid taper.  You are right.  There is never a good time.  There will always be something going on, whether it be my brother's death, or Christmas, or birthdays, etc.  I need to do this.  I want to start living a life I can be proud of, because right now I can barely look at myself in the mirror.  I don't like what is looking back at me.  I also love to see the little blue box at the bottom of the screen saying how many days you have been clean.  Congrats!  I hope to have my own blue box soon!

4Leef-I know what you mean about the emotional attachment-I also at attached to "having something."  Something to take the emotion pain and stress away-something to alter my crummy reality.  I'm a baby too, so don't feel bad.  Hell, I'm still so scared to go cold turkey next week, but I have vowed not to order anymore of this horrible poison.  

DamTram-I also relapsed and I know what you are going through.  I will be with you in hell next week, so we can swap horror stories of the worst of our WDs.

RJ0923-All of the supplements may have had something to with your seizure-that is a good possibilty.  Also, if you are extremely exhausted or sleep deprived you are more prone to seizure at that time.  Thanks for the support in regards to what is going on with my brother.  I really appreciate it.  I'm sorry about your tree--I haven't even gotten mine out of storage to put up yet.  My little girl is after me about it.  Hopefully Sunday I will get it all decorated.  I'm not looking forward to it either, as terrible as that sounds.  I love Christmas, but this year is a total bummer for me, and I don't much feel like celebrating.

Legaljunky-That you too for the support.  I see that you are at 90 days today.  CONGRATS!  That is a huge accomplishment.  I really may do a super fast taper early next week, just so that I will be able to work at least until Wednesday or Thursday.  I don't mind calling in sick a couple of days if I need to, but I am hoping to have the worst of the WDs next weekend.  It is so hard to withdraw while you are working.  Hell, I did payroll a couple of years ago and I was in such a brain fog I don't even remember doing it!  

Denise-I'm sorry to hear the little one is still sick.  You may need to have him checked out really well.  That is a long time to be sick.  There is a lot going around this time of the year though.  I applaud you for your 6 days.  You are lucky that you didn't have the tummy troubles.  I'm sorry about all of the psychological stuff you are going through with the WD.  That is much worse than the physical aspect.

I hope you all have a great day.  This weekend will be a busy one for me-cleaning, decorating, getting the new kitty adjusted, and cooking meals to freeze for next week when I am in hell!  Thank you all for your support.
Booba

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by haves, Dec 09, 2011
Day 6 - more alert than previous days, feels like my brain is less scrambled. My wife told me it looked like I had color back in my face and I seems more alive. Totally brought tears to me eyes. This detox is nothing like my other ones. No brain zaps thank god . Good luck to all

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by Sarabie, Dec 09, 2011
Booba - I'm no expert at all. I can only tell you how I did it and perhaps you can use it - perhaps not. But I did a rapid taper. Went from 24 to 0 in five days. Those 5 days were ok. No w/d's at all. Day 6 however send me to bed, where I stayed for 48 hours. I told myself I had the flue, and I watched dvd's, read books and listened to music and most importantly, I slept through most of it. The 3. day of 0 I got out of bed, had a long hot bath, wrapped myself in comfy clothes and slowly started participating in daily life again. Day 4 I was able to do the dishes, day 5 I could vacuum. One small step at a time. Oh and I almost forgot - I wrote tons of letters, explaining everything. Never sent them and never will, but that helped a lot.

I couldn't eat anything the first couple of days, but as soon as I got my appetite back, I made sure my diet was filled with vitamins. Had homemade tomato/basil soup and other vegetable soups. I played a lot of Nintendo wii during this period. 5 years of tram takes time to get over, so I couldn't go to the gym or go for long walks. But I needed to use my body somehow, so a little Nintendo tennis was good. And well, I might as well be the one to tell you - your sexdrive will wake up 100% during CT. It's like your brain is screaming for you to do something to produce endorfins - eat chocolate and have sex 24/7. To me it was like "wow I'm actually able to feel something again".

I had no depression and no insomnia. I cried a couple of times, but when it started, I found something to cry about. Like a lovesong, that could have been about me etc. Then it wore off by itself after half an hour or so. I have had restless legs my whole life, and it was definately worse during this period, but since I'm used to it, I didn't really notice. Got some cramps in my legs though. But through the whole process I was happy. I knew I was doing the best thing ever for myself. That this was my rescue and that feeling just felt me with joy. And now my blue box is ticking and all those small steps led to this. Tram free and happy :-D

I'm going to a Christmas party tomorrow. I'm nervous actually. This will be my first party since my tram stop. It will also be the first time of getting drunk in 3 years. I have decided to look gorgeous if possible. Now I just need to figure out, how on earth I'm gonna do that *LOL*

Keep fighting. It's worth it !!!!

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Dec 09, 2011
I haven't had a tram since November 14.  The first 2 weeks were pretty easy.  Now I have major depression and anxiety attacks.  I'm having trouble sleeping also.  My doctor put me on a clonidine patch to help with the anxiety.  I'm also going through menopause at the same time and my hormones are whacky.

I'm also having some shoulder pain that has gotten worse.  It's affected my income producing abilities this christmas season.

I wake up every morning wanting to die.  My life is really not going too well anyway even without the withdrawal.

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by denised1982, Dec 09, 2011
Yoyoyoyo78-- Please be easy on yourself and if these feelings get worse, PLEASE go get help. We don't want to not hear from you again. Please keep posting and tell us how you are feeling. I know you have had better days and I know it will eventually get better, however, if this keeps up, please go to the doctor, and tell him what's going on.

Sarabie-- Im glad you're getting out and about, you are beautiful, and you deserve a little indulgence every now and again. :)

Everyone else---- I'm doing okay. Today makes day 7. It feels like I'm peeling away layers of an onion, the layers being tramadol. I don't think I could DT that fast, no way in hell. I still have pain, but it's nothing that isn't manageable. I don't want to take a damn tram again. I hope that I am going to be okay, I hope the worse isn't yet to come. I still have feelings of depression even though I'm on an anti-depressant, but usually goes away if the pain in my legs or back subsides. :/
If it isn't the worst to come, I will definitely be on the phone with my doctor or my nurse and we will have to figure something out.

Booba-- That really is funny about your pop. Maybe there is hope. I hope they find your brother. I grew up here in MS but  I used to live in Arizona after hurricane Katrina, and those folks out there, not all of them, but a lot of them, will hurt or kill you. People out there will drive beside your car and shoot you if they don't like the way you drive, and they don't give a damn. I'm sure it's like that everywhere, but the bigger cities you hear about that more.. I guess I don't have to explain that. I live within an hour/hour and a half from New Orleans and it's getting horrific over there and I'm getting to where I don't want to go hit Bourbon Street anymore. Its too loud for me to handle anyway, and all the people there will give me a panic attack. I will get a panic attack up in walmart because of all the people. I hate it.

I wish everyone good health and a sound mind. Take care!

<3 Denise



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by rj0923, Dec 09, 2011
denised....I love your pretty blue 7 days clean box hope to have my own very soon.

I called and left a message earlier to tell my doctor I may reconsider an anitidepressent to get off this last bout of tram.  I saw her after my seizure we talked about going on a AD to get me off these last 2 pills I take daily, but can't do both at the same time, for she feels I may be sensitve to seritonin syndrome. I am having no more restless legs or anything else physical since I ave been on 2 pills most the past 2 week . The only poblem now is the depression and how bad it has become andtaperingagain will only make it worse.  I have never had depession like this in my life, and ever since i started this taper back in October it hasnt gotten better and gets worse with every taper. We had discussed celexa starting with 5mgs and start taking it the next day after I take the 7pm dose of tram. I have been on tramadol for 7 years with no break, so who knows what has been to my brain.

How many of you have taken a AD when you went off tram and how did it work for you. I will do what is best for me, lt just helps to have feedback. the depresssion is to the point that if I ct I won't bounce back since it has not gotten better at all only worse.

I want off this shitttttt!!!

Sorry had a moment.

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by denised1982, Dec 09, 2011
rj0923- Thank you!!! I got put on 10 mgs of Celexa for 10 days and now I am on 20 mgs of Celexa. I did what the doctor told me, which was to cut the dose in half until I ran out while I was taking the Celexa. I guess since I never had a seizure the doctor wasn't too worried about it. If you're ready to be off this, then we're here for you! When you first start the Celexa, you will have moments. You may be on here a lot. I had a lot of crazy moments, writing crazy sheit when I first started like all the time. Time is what will heal us all in the end. You may experience physiological or psychological pain, you may not. Everyone is different. Right now I am kind of apathetic, kind of "flat affect".

Like I said before, today is day 7. I don't know why, but I am starting to get the runs. It's friggin terrific :(... I took some immodium only because it hurt to sh*t. I'm like OMG! FIRE! So, I don't know what the deal is. Maybe the Popeye's cajun fried chicken, mashed potatoes, and cole slaw and a biscuit I ate last night. And today. Whatever. Maybe not. I hope it's the Popeyes. Oh yeah, I did eat a jalepeno pepper last night too. Guess I am a glutton for punishment...

I'm tired as hell. I took two trazadones 50mg about 8am and fell asleep sometime after that. I woke up shortly after 1 because of stomach pain and the sh*ts so I have been up since then. It's 5:35pm now and I have to be up by 8 to get ready for work. Not the greatest day. Not the worst day, either. Pain level is about a 4 or a 5, not the worst, not the best.

Everyone, keep posting, keep up the good work, we're in this together.

-Denise



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by ditchwitch, Dec 09, 2011
I broke my ankle several years back when Ultram was newer, and it was prescribed to alleviate that kind of pain.  Long story short, several years later, I was up to 300mg per day, and my ankle never healed.  Although my pain was still there, the doctor who took over my care saw that I had a problem and helped me taper off of it. Another long story short, 6 months later, I didn't have withdrawal symptoms, still hurt, and just dealt with it. It was the hardest thing I have ever overcome, personally, and people who thought that it was funny have no idea that lil ol' Ultram is a demonic thing to deviate from.  I've been on "real" pain pills for extended periods for other things, and NEVER had this kind of problem putting them down.  If you don't take them daily, they are fine.  Using them daily, you WILL be privy to this detox, and it ***** really bad. I would be glad to answer any questions about my experience.  Everyone keep up the fight.

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by SingleDadOnTram, Dec 09, 2011
rj,

I too suffer from depression due to tram withdrawal.  For me, it's the worst during the first hour or two after I wake up - once I'm up and going, it eases.  Interestingly, going to bed at night has become the thing I most look forward to during the day - I suppose because sleep is an enjoyable, natural "trip" - I've always loved sleeping.

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by rj0923, Dec 09, 2011
yep your right single dad first thing in the morning *****.

Denise.... what do you mean when I frist start the celexa i will have moments, are there bad side effects?

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by rj0923, Dec 09, 2011
oh ya denise when do you take the celexa morning or eve

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by legaljunky, Dec 09, 2011
Hi rj0923-
Of all the things I have ever been thru depression is the worst.  When I was at my lowest, long before Tram I wanted to be dead, I just didn't want to "do" it.  Thank God because everything got better and you will too.  My depression came when Lyme disease got to my brain.  That was about 10 years ago and since then I have been on 75mg Amitriptyline (generic for Elavil), 20 mg Lexapro (I think that's the SSRI) and 2mg Clonazepam for sleep problems of Lyme.  Then about 2 1/2 years I was prescribed 100-800mg daily Tramadol for arthritis pain.  I took 400 mg daily for a while, then went down to 300 mg, a few months later (I don't remember why), and then down to 200mg and that was how much I was taking when my Dr. told me to get off it and I found I was addicted.

I got all my info on this life saving forum and figured out how I wanted to taper. I tapered 1/4 pill a week and towards the end  less than 1/4 pill till I was down to 40mg daily for a week and then I stopped taking any at all. It was tough and I did experience depression and lots of other awful things. In the beginning I just kept posting, it made me feel better.

I don't know if all this helps you, I got these drugs in a different order than you will. Just keep posting and know that it gets better.  I am so thankful to all my Tram fighting buddies who helped me beat Tramadevil!

I think maybe I'm going thru 90day PAWS and if I am, it isn't bad- I just keep waking up during the night, 3 nights now, and I'm very tired most of the day.  And a little of that blank feeling.   I feel like Tramadevil is slowly getting the message that I'm done! Adios!  

Love and strength to you all- Fight like hell and come to my side of the war against Tramadevil! Life is beautiful!

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by denised1982, Dec 09, 2011
rj- it takes a while for the meds to level you off or get in your system. It is great for brain zaps. I dont know how you will react to it because I was taking it while doing an extremely fast taper. I take mine before bed. I work nights so I usually take it when i get home from work.  I wouldnt recommend that but I was brutally honest with my doctor of exactly what kind of hell i was going to go through.

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by rj0923, Dec 09, 2011
Thanks legal we have talked before and you always have good advice. The depression has turned clinical sadly. I have no wd symptoms of any kind, but depression is only getting worse to the point that if i even taper 1/4 a pill god knows what will happen. I have never experienced this in my life and have never been on an AD before either.

Maybe being on the tramadol for 7 years straight 3 pills 3x a day with not one break did something to me. Hoping taking an AD that is made specifically for depresssion will help me get off the last of the tram. then my doctor said I should be able to go off the AD once my brain level out from not having the tram.

When I first started the taper I did have wd, but then I would adjust, then taper, adjust, and so on. I adjusted to all the wd's except the depression, it like i said got worse with each taper and is getting worse everyday and I have not tapered for 2 weeks.

I will say this...i now know what true clinical depression is and feels like. I  have been depressed in my life before from certain things in life divorce, death in the family, laid off, having MS, and even as bad as all that was at one time or another does not compare to this and I got through it. This is paralizing, can't get out of bed and not dress or bath for 2-3 days. I am crying as I write this because there is not one thing wrong with me i don't feel sick at all. I just don't feel.

I know i will get through this I have great support here, a great  husband and here's the best one.....a phychiatrist who has sufferred from the tram devil herself (car accident) and gets all of what i am going through. Just started seeing her.

I will keep in touch, rj.

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by rj0923, Dec 09, 2011
Thank you denise for the info it helps a lot. Wish me luck..... Yawn.... Going to bed now. Night guys.

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by fightorfight, Dec 10, 2011
Hey rj,

I'm sorry to hear that you're having such issues with depression because of this stuff--- and believe me, I know at least some of what you're saying.   An A/D will help at least initially-- and its something that is safe enough to re-evaluate as you continue to get better.   Dark days come after this stuff, but they can be mediated, somewhat.  The A/D will help level things off--- but be prepared to be objective for a few weeks,  they don't make you "happy" per se, but rather, less despondent.    That is the biggest war I faced coming off Tramadol my first go round, and had been for a while yet this last time---

Its about a compromise you have to make with yourself,  about how you want to live each day and how you want to learn or grow or help yourself.   How you go about doing that, be it on an A/D, or counseling, or a combination thereof, isn't the focus but rather a means to an end.     Tram does cause your brain to release chemicals differently, but those receptors will heal over time.    

Just know that even in your worst days, it will always get better.   Maybe not tomorrow, but probably next week, and then the week after that, and so forth.    My heart goes out to you-- and I hope that your days get better.

Take care of yourself.

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by loopey2u, Dec 10, 2011
Hey RJ, I was wondering where you went!  I stopped the taper and went c/t.  I took my last dose Wed. afternoon, and took a Prozac on Thurs. morning before any side effects kicked in.  I was really scared, but I didn't want to continue taking this pill and just wanted to be done.

It really, really helped.  I still had sweating/insomnia and a bit of depression that lasted a day or so, but this was a walk in the park compared to last time. No brain zaps or flu and I know the prozac helped with that.  Day 1-4 were fine except for EXTREME tiredness and then insomnia, day 5-6 was so/so but after that it's been smooth sailing.  It's day 10 and I am sleeping well and I'd say back to normal, whatever that is..lol  I kept waiting, and waiting for the same thing that happened last time to happen but it didn't!

I hope you and your dr. come to some sort of solution for you.  Wish I would have done it weeks sooner...

Good luck and keep posting!!

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 10, 2011
Good morning everyone, its almost 8pm here but I know its somewhat early back there.  I passed another exam today, only 2 more and I am done with this training.  I never thought I would say the words that I am ready to go back to Afghanistan, but I am.  My brain is fried, I need to get back on a routine again, the stress isnt helping me and the battle with my addiction.  I havent been to the gym either since I left, so that is probably why I feel so cruddy.

SingleDad - the mornings are by far the hardest for me too.  It is really hard to get out of bed and face the day.  I can tell its just because I dont have the tram in my body because I usually have a runny nose first thing in the morning until I take my dose.  Then the time between when you get off work and go to bed ***** too, at least being at work keeps me occupied.  I tend to just go to bed really early, or at least lay in bed and watch TV.

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by Sarabie, Dec 11, 2011
Easy now. What I meant was that I love the fact that I'm now able to go out again.  That I didn't get sick and was able to have fun - i had feared that I would start crying or talk about tram the whole evening.  I can't see telling about a party  should more inapropiate than talking about other opiates than tram in this forum. Well I'm happy.  It was a milestone for me. Being able to participate in a "normal" party proved that I'm ready to live again.  

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 11, 2011
Sarabie - I understand what you mean.  I have really isolated myself ever since I started, I used to never be that way.  I used to always want to hangout with my friends on the weekends and stay busy.  Now I just stay in and act like a hermit.

Its like you are just always depressed about the tram, when your on it or even off.  It takes awhile before you can learn to be happy without it.  Having fun without tram??  Thats seems completely impossible right now

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by denised1982, Dec 11, 2011
Ditchwitch-- you are so right about what you said, at least that's right, for me. It is a powerful drug. I believe if you really evaluate yourself you could really taper off the drug. I would not give myself the chance TO taper. I said "f*ck it." Just like everything else in my life, when I'm ready to quit, I quit. Now, I'm glad that I did give it up, however, I miss being able to ignore my pain.

I'm not hurting like I was a week ago, but I miss the feeling of being faster, moving faster, ignoring pain. What I don't miss is ordering the sh*t every 2 weeks off the internet. I figured maybe I would save more money(debunked, I just spent my money somewhere else and I AM missing more days of work because of feeling like sh*t) and not be a slave to that sh*t because it's not truly benefiting me or really making me happy, I was constantly worried about my brain being fried and my liver shutting down, I was downing 3 to 5 20 oz sodas a day, I was sweating bullets, I had extreme mood changes (downright psychotic episodes at times), smoked a HELL of a lot more cigarettes, but at least I could ignore my back and leg pain and be a super stepmom and fiance. IT WAS BULLSHITAKE! I finally grew pissed off and said, "You're not my God, in fact, you're probably on the level of hell, and I will not worship you and be a slave to you any longer."

Last night I had a dark moment and I wanted to kill myself. I wanted to die. I was going crazy and I was real real tired, and I was hurting all over and I was in the bathtub, crying my eyes out. I felt like I did when I used to run out of tram pills. What the F*CK. Why is this doing this to me after a week into this sh*t? I AM on my A/D's, I f-ed up for the past 2 weeks by taking both my trazadone AND my celexa at the same time, which was right before bed in the morning time when I got off work. I called my dad to ask him what I was doing wrong and why did I feel like shitake and why am I at work crying like a crazy ash?

Well, about 4-5 days ago I just titrated my dose up from 10mgs to 20 mgs of celexa, and the trazadone just shucks. I am up right now, and I could not sleep any later than what I was when I was on it. I'm not sure if I want to titrate my trazadone to 3, the doctor says I could, but what I was doing WRONG was taking all my medicine at the same time. I was seeing things that were not there and it made me feel horrible. Deep down I knew better, but I didn't think. I didn't think that it would effect me the way it did and I didn't think I was going to feel like I was going insane. My dad said stop taking a major dose of AD's, duh.. Take them 12 hours apart. I told him, well the doctor said that "celexa and trazadone work together" and he replied, "they do work together but they don't work together at the same time! Take them 12 hours apart."
That was last night.

So, this morning, I took my pravastatin and 100 mg of trazadone. I am up and I either need more sleep or I have a trazadone hangover. I am only getting 4-5 hours of sleep. I am an 8+ hours of sleep person. (Yeah, yeah.. I am spoiled, but I have always been that way, and I've always been spoiled, too!) I don't want to take more, but I don't want to feel like sh*t.

So, I'm up. Yep. And I'm feeling like crap.

So, BeenHereBefore, I know what you mean about having fun without tram, although I wasn't necessarily having fun while on it, but right now I can say that I am in a fragile state of mind, body, and soul. I was moving around more and working more efficiently while on the trams. I wish that I could say that I was doing that now. I am so worried about my job being on the line. I just don't feel like doing sh*t. My work ethic is better than that.

Sarabie- I totally know what you mean and I have to say I'm happy for you being happy. I hope you don't have the hangover from hell, I hope you're careful, and I am glad you're getting to your old self again.
:)

As of now, my fiance is bugging me to go to the JP to get married. He has been the past week. I feel bad because I love him and I want to be married to him, but I don't feel like it right now. I used to feel like it, but I know that the way I have been and how I am currently being, it wouldn't be fair to him. I am definitely more easy going but I still feel like I am definitely depressed. I don't talk too much as it is and I have almost seized talking completely except for yes, no, i don't know, (and mostly) i don't care answers. This is not living (don't get me wrong, tramadol was most definitely NOT the answer, either). He is trying to be supportive, but he's just a man, and can only take so much of my crap.

I am broken.



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by legaljunky, Dec 11, 2011
I just have to post my good news-  I obviously broke thru my 90 day PAWS this morning with real energy and feeling like myself again.  I don't know how long it has been since I felt this normal.  I guess this is a natural high, I haven't even had sugar!  I think I am beginning to enjoy my coffee again!- oh- there's my high.

I know so many of you- my friends who have been here and brought me to this wonderful place- are still struggling and you are in my thoughts and prayers.  Keep fighting Tramadevil, I know how tough it is and I know life is wonderful without it

Stay strong, just keep putting 1 foot in front of the other till you get to my side of Tramadevil!

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by GA_need_help, Dec 11, 2011
I need a support system like this.  I am tapering off of Opana ER--a high dose.  I am struggling with anxiety, depression and muscle pain.  Can I be a part of your supportive conversations?  I haven't found a forum like yours specific to opiates like Opana ER.  Is it so different than Tram?  I have been on Tram before.  I am having to do this taper very slowly..  It is tortuous.  I would really be helped by being part of this discussion.  Thanks, Marie

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by fightorfight, Dec 11, 2011
Evening guys,

GA-  We can help the best we can,  Tramadol is a semi-synthetic opiod, along with a host of other sites targeted in the brain dealing with serotonin and nor-epinephrine.    Oxymorphone is a different drug, and effects mu-opiod sites directly, rather than sporadically which Tram does.   However, we can offer up our own advice as to how to help you get through your taper with it.   The ER formulation, if I'm not mistaken, is a 24 hour dose.   Is it something that you're working with your doctor about?   If not, or you don't want to go into it at this time--- thats fine, but I can give you better advice about it knowing your dose and what your planned taper is.   If you'd like, you can message me on here privately.     Irregardless, here you'll find a judgement-free place to share your story--- and get help with your W/Ds.     Take comfort in the fact that non of us are perfect, and will all continue to be works in progress.    Progress being the key word.      The withdrawal length, and pattern, are going to be similar-- especially for acute days between Tram and Oxymorphone, they are both (in that formulation) long-acting drugs.    Thats alright,  tell us about yourself, and we'll let you know about us as well.  Welcome to the community.    

Sarabie-   I'm glad you were able to go out and have some fun.   Another defining characteristic for me as well, was the ability to go out and have a good time without the need for Tram or anything else in my system.   I'm glad you had a good time!   Theres a joke my buddies and I tend to tell each other:   In the US, its a practice sometimes of "Drunk Dialing" or texting--- normally to ex-es, and normally not the best laid out conversations--in that circumstance, we've had certain people put a speed-dial for Domino's or Pizza Hut instead.   Its all good, I'm happy you're doing well.

Ican- Congrats on getting through the 90 days, and enjoying Life now so far out from Tramadol.   Thats wonderful news, and I hope you have a good continued time as the holidays approach.  

Denise-  Trazadone and I never got along.   I was on that at one point for insomnia I've had since I was 16, and while it did make me sleep (and not be able to breathe through my nose), I'd wake up in the morning feeling like I was 90 years old.    Joint pain that would cause me to shuffle-step through most of my day until the drug got out of my system.   Now I've been through the wringer with sleep-meds,  all the Zdrugs, Sleep Benzos, atypical antipsychotics(overpriced antihistimines).  I'm not taking anything for that anymore, just decided to let my body dictate my sleep pattern--- which when I exercise-- isn't too terrible.     I don't sleep the 8 hours, but I get a decent 5 or 6, and seem to be alright with that.     Hopefully you can find something that helps you sleep a bit better while you're still early in your recovery.    Sleep is important coming off this stuff, and its one of the last lingering symptoms of W/D---  But you can beat it.    Have you tried Valerian or Melatonin combinations?  The melatonin isn't great, but the Valerian works pretty well--- if you can stand the smell at least ;).

Today was rough for me--- I visit my grandma, who is in a nursing home, to feed her four times a week.   Her condition is such that she's steadily declining before my eyes, and this will be the first Christmas that she and I can't communicate anymore.   Its a hard thing to share with my immediate family, who either are well aware of the situation--- or don't want to know anything about it.    Coming home from that to help my family decorate the house for Christmas just destroyed me.     Its hard to be happy about this holiday knowing what is most certainly in store for her in a few weeks time.    I don't believe in God myself, but my Grandma was a vehiment Catholic throughout her life----- and for the first time in a while,  I tried to talk to what she thinks is looking over her:   "Give her one more Christmas, and make it a good one. "   I hope He or She heard me on that,  she's always been my rock, and losing her is going to be a terrible time for me.  

After all that, I went to the gym and just went all out.    I feel better, but man...  probably the toughest day I've had since I started posting here again.

I hope everyone is doing alright.

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by haves, Dec 11, 2011
Howdy all - day 8 update. My only really issue is I have heart palapitations periods throughout the day. Coffee makes it worse. I should prObaly admit at this point I was using methamphetamine also and between the sertornin loss and the dopamine loss from the meth the past week totally sucked. I'm lucky to have any feel good left in my brain but I do. I ran 2 to 3 miles for the lady two days and I feel myself smiling more than not. And my appetite had come back in full force
Ga - need help. I 've detox from every other opiate our there - oxy - herion - . The detox from opiates is shorter than the detox from tram but very similar. Anxiety attacks are always the worse. You can do it . I'm living proof . The only thing that always helps me I'd exercise . Start small it helps to produce natural endoriphins . God bless all

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by legaljunky, Dec 12, 2011
Welcome GA!

ForF knows the whole scoop and if he says we can help you, we can!  And I know we all want to!  I learned all the remedies for the WD symptoms and I'm sure they will work for you too.  But what's best is the love and support we all get from those who have been there!  It's tough and takes a long time but the rewards are incredible!  

Love and strength!

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by booba77, Dec 12, 2011
Hi folks.  Legal junky-congrats on no 90 day PAWS.  That really is awesome.  FOF-I'm sorry to hear you have been down.  I'm so sorry about your Grandma.  It will be a rough Christmas for me as well without my brother.  We just have to be here for one another and try to heal.  GA needs help-I'm sure we can help you here.  And if we can't, we are here to listen at least.  Sarabie-good for you for getting out and having fun.  I'm glad to hear you are feeling like your old self again.  I can't wait to say the same thing.  Haves-stay off the coffee-I can only imagine they make your palpitations worse!  Denise-I'm so sorry you are down.  It may be the PAWS screwing with you-at least on the depression.  I would definately look into talking to your doc to regulate your meds.

Well-I will be jumping off of the trams Wednesday.  I have 15 for today, 10 for tomorrow, and will take 5 Wedesnday (just to get through the workday).  Then I'm totally out and not ordering anymore.  I know I will be on here day and night for awhile.  Thanks for being there guys.  

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by denised1982, Dec 12, 2011
GA-- Opana is such a powerful drug. If you have a problem with it, maybe you should ask about suboxone. Opana is a drug much much stonger than ultram. We will be here to support you anytime!  I think opana er is a 12 hour drug, if I am not mistaken. I can't remember. My friend is on that sh*t as well as oxycodone for breakthrough pain.

I think my problem was the recent increase in my SSRI Celexa. I think I may have a "spastic colon" anyway. I noticed a marked improvement when I was taking the ultram with my intestinal issues. Before ultram, I'd sh*t like a goose, after ultram, I sh*t like a goose. Now I have aggravating nausea, so I am eating more yogurt and taking loperamide and ranitidine as needed. Plus I know not to take Celexa and trazadone at the same time, I took them seperately yesterday, but after I took the Celexa was when I noticed the GI issues. It's frustrating. I still have pain, in my back and legs, and I think that's why I am so pissed off and upset and depressed. Maybe I was meant to suffer. It f*cking s*cks. FML.

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by MrKenny, Dec 12, 2011
It took about 90 days to get over the very last of the tram shadow hangover. It's Like having a bad dream/nightmare or traumatic event you can't remember, but is hanging like a ghost over your psyche.  GONE GONE GONE!
  Life is normal now; great mood all the time.....love the Holidays!

But....i need to find a way of fixing the pinched nerve in my neck that causes the pain that started the tramnightmare.
The pain is caused by a narrowed disc,.... (which was caused by muscle/joint deterioration from Lipitor)
I have gone through physical therapy and very expensive injections; having very little affect.
The medical community has utterly failed me, having done more harm than good;... the more I go to Doctors the worse my body gets.

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by denised1982, Dec 12, 2011
Mr Kenny, I'm glad you're doing okay. I am sorry about your pinched nerve.. Have you gone to a chiropractor? I haven't, but I am also kind of scared to go, I have heard some horror stories about it. Are you on any NSAIDS and muscle relaxants? I heard toradol was the best, but voltaren is ok mobic, allright. You would probably be "better off" relatively speaking than taking pain pills as long as you take the precautions to protect yourself from stomach bleeding. Have they recommended surgery or are they just offering it as a last resort?

There's other ways to control pain besides drugs, too. Have you tried a T.E.N.S. unit? They are great for nerve pain. I would inquire about other options.

I hope I don't have muscle and joint deterioration from my statin meds. Ugh. That would be awful. And I'm sorry that it is happening to you.



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by DamTram, Dec 12, 2011
It is day 3.  I am dying.  How could I forget this?  How do make myself remember next time?  I do not want to go to the hospital.

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by GA_need_help, Dec 12, 2011
Hi All,
Thanks so much for the warm welcome from everyone.  Fightorfight, thanks for being so open to me initially.  All of the comments are making my heart feel at home.  It is very interesting that we are all at different places.  About me, I am a 43-y-o mom of an 8-year-old girl (with a mind of her own at this minute).  I am a step-mom of 3 college age and older ones.  I have quit alcohol 16 or so years ago, then quit clonazapam and soma (for the last time) about 7 months ago.  Being on those was a disaster, and definitely did some damage in my relationships with my step-children unfortunately!  But, maybe writing about that will help me deal with it this Christmas.  I have had major back surgery-and have been on OpanaER for 3 to 4 years (with about 1 1/2 to 2 months off that I don't remember very well.  I went to tx then -- and I don't want to leave my daughter again while dealing with this taper. .. I will continue later.. Abigail is ready to do her work

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by EmilyPost, Dec 12, 2011
This thread is closed.

Please post on Part 50 ...

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/330291/Tramadol--Ultram-Recovery-Room-Part-50

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by GA_need_help, Dec 12, 2011
Hi,
If you read my post, Abigail is my daughter.  It's 5:30.  usually I take one of my 3 Opana doses at 6, but the back pain is so great that I am taking it early.  This is a mean drug.  As denised21982 said, Opana is VERY strong.  Yes, it is -- and it is very hard to not feel like I am going to freak out over this.  Life has gotten pretty hard to enjoy, or even to relax into since i started tapering.  And, when I feel that pain, I forget for a bit that I am 'tapering'--this is why I am having to go down little bit by little bit -- even if I feel it is mentally driving me mad.  I have to know I am going to get through this.  Actually, with the anxiety I do forget I am going to get through it.  That is the bad part.  That is why I need to have these posts to help me to know I can get through this....What's going on is what this doctor at Florida Detox calls hyperneurosensitivity  (I think) but maybe it is just detox; maybe early PAWS--but mentally and emotionally it *****!  I just can't get much peace.  This is hard because I really love my husband, my daughter, our home and our life (or a lot of things in our life).  I am able to keep up doing my tasks, and performing in my roles--but I am suffering inside A LOT because my mind can't relax.  It is so changed by these opiates.  The problem is I can't rush this more than doing a slow taper because my body won't let me.  My back hurt so bad before this last dose.  I think I would die if I did CT.  But, I don't have to.  I know I am suffering, but because I don't know how much physical pain in my back I will be in when I complete the taper (When God brings me through the taper!)  Wow! Does anyone just feel, well kind of trapped--in a place where their head is going 500 miles an hour, and they can only get peace for rare moments?  Peace becomes everything you want-- mentally, emotionally and physically.  I am not asking to excel and be amazing right now (as I used to aspire to be).  I am just, just to perform my roles and have some peace!  So, I am grateful to be able to connect with ya'll.  I  know some of you are in a similar (hell) state.  And some of you have come through it.  So I really appreciate the ability to post.  I will check in soon.  Thanks, Marie  

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by tramsick, Dec 13, 2011
FOF- Sorry to hear about your grandma.  My mom has Alzheimer's disease, so on some level, I can relate.  I have an amazing father that takes care of her at home with our amazing caretaker.  It is so sweet of you to go feed her four times/wk.  She may not be able to express it, but I'm sure it makes a difference to her and you.  

I remember the moment I realized that my mom and I couldn't communicate anymore, but I still see glimmers of her every time I see her.  I know it's not the same, but I hope you can get some of those moments.  It took me a long time to accept that our traditional relationship was gone, but I hang on to our moments, in whatever way they come. You deserve some happy moments, you're such an inspirational source here.

Sending my best to everyone suffering, there is light at the end of the tunnel.  Keep fighting, keep posting and supporting one another!

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