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Tramadol & Ultram Recovery Room Part 50

Dec 12, 2011 - 211 comments

Hi and welcome to Part 50!

Wow part 50.

Please make yourself at home. Snuggle down.

It'll be a bumpy ride but I know you Tramadol Warrirors can do it!

Love and Healing,
Emily

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by DamTram, Dec 12, 2011
I starting dying less when my mom came over and told me I was burning up.  Again, Day 3 over here; 11 months after a ct wd.  Excedrin helped, but I'm dreading the night - burning freezing burning freezing.  And my computer broke!  So, now it's just me and my phone.  Thank goodness for that.  I'm also on 1mg klonopin and 50mg seroquel, down from 2 and 75+, respectively...at the same time ad ct this time.  I was only on it 4 weeks, but I was on high doses.  I broke down at 5am this morning and took some Soma...and I'm so mad at myself.  I go back to class Jan 9, and I wanted to be off of everything.  :(.  But my doctors just want me to stay on drugs, so I feel alone in my wd and tapering.  :(

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by GA_need_help, Dec 12, 2011
Hi,
If you read my post, Abigail is my daughter.  It's 5:30.  usually I take one of my 3 Opana doses at 6, but the back pain is so great that I am taking it early.  This is a mean drug.  As denised21982 said, Opana is VERY strong.  Yes, it is -- and it is very hard to not feel like I am going to freak out over this.  Life has gotten pretty hard to enjoy, or even to relax into since i started tapering.  And, when I feel that pain, I forget for a bit that I am 'tapering'--this is why I am having to go down little bit by little bit -- even if I feel it is mentally driving me mad.  I have to know I am going to get through this.  Actually, with the anxiety I do forget I am going to get through it.  That is the bad part.  That is why I need to have these posts to help me to know I can get through this....What's going on is what this doctor at Florida Detox calls hyperneurosensitivity  (I think) but maybe it is just detox; maybe early PAWS--but mentally and emotionally it *****!  I just can't get much peace.  This is hard because I really love my husband, my daughter, our home and our life (or a lot of things in our life).  I am able to keep up doing my tasks, and performing in my roles--but I am suffering inside A LOT because my mind can't relax.  It is so changed by these opiates.  The problem is I can't rush this more than doing a slow taper because my body won't let me.  My back hurt so bad before this last dose.  I think I would die if I did CT.  But, I don't have to.  I know I am suffering, but because I don't know how much physical pain in my back I will be in when I complete the taper (When God brings me through the taper!)  Wow! Does anyone just feel, well kind of trapped--in a place where their head is going 500 miles an hour, and they can only get peace for rare moments?  Peace becomes everything you want-- mentally, emotionally and physically.  I am not asking to excel and be amazing right now (as I used to aspire to be).  I am just, just to perform my roles and have some peace!  So, I am grateful to be able to connect with ya'll.  I  know some of you are in a similar (hell) state.  And some of you have come through it.  So I really appreciate the ability to post.  I will check in soon.  Thanks, Marie  

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by GA_need_help, Dec 12, 2011
OH, yes, my doctor's NP put me on this dose, it is lowered quiet a bit from what I was on.  I got put on the NP's caseload! Great! And she wants me to lower.  She took my idea and now SHE wants me to taper.  Scary.  So I am in a scary place.  I have meds for another month.  What will happen then? I have to be seriously proactive with my taper.. ouch, I am not so comfortable, but if I let myself feel connected to you good people, I believe it WILL help.  Thanks, Marie

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by legaljunky, Dec 12, 2011
Hi GA- Hang in there!  I've been where you are and it was hell, but mitigated hell since I did a really slow taper.  I don't know how you could compare my experience to yours, but here goes-  I was on 200 mg (4 pills) a day Tramadol and cut down 1/4 pill a week which gave 4 awful days and 3 days that weren't quite as bad.  The worst time was when I was down to 40 mg and then just quit altogether. That was 7 days of my worst WD pain.  But it is so worth it!  Just take 1 day at a time, 1 minute at a time when it's really tough. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Today I feel like I am totally free of Tram for the first time.  SO exciting!

Love, strength and perseverance!



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by DamTram, Dec 12, 2011
Does anyone have experience tapering from klonopin and/or seroquel?  During or post-tram?  I do so hate these trenches....

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by GA_need_help, Dec 12, 2011
My last post was on the old threat.  I just wanted to thank everyone for welcoming me!  It really means a lot.  I know being a part of this conversation will help e a lot  


Thanks Legaljunky,
You are sooo sweet.  So your taper was 9 weeks or so?  Mine has already gone on for that long, actually a lot longer!  So you can see I am weary.  Thanks for reminding me how you tapered and endured (as you wrote perserverance)!  Was 40mg the lowest dose you could do?  Was the detox mostly physical or was it psychological -- knowing that you were at the end?  What do you think made the last bit so hard?  How did you get through it?

My sweet daughter deserves a mother that feels good about herself (we can actually do that, right?).  I want to be so there for her, not suffering through the times reading for her class, attending her class parties, helping her with her homework, and hanging out at home with her.  

I can't actually imagine having one of those blue boxes.  Imagine that possibility!

I am so glad you are feeling good now--so were you going through PAWS after your taper/detox?  Is that how you cut 1/4 tab a week?

The stressful thing is I cannot control my taper all the time.  I had so much pain tonight I had to take an extra 10 mg.  When my back hurts, it dictates the dosage.  Generally, I am on 25, as compared to 40 -- but I have these bad times!  I don't know why they happen.  There is no rhyme or reason.  I just do my best to have faith that God will bring me through!

Thanks for the encouragement.
Marie  

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by denised1982, Dec 12, 2011
I read up a lot on PAWS, unfortunately it says that some people experience wd's for up to 2 years. I guess it depends on how long you are on what you are on and how much of it you did, and it depends on the person. That really does s*ck. I guess they are referring to the psychological aspect of it. It's a bummer, but you have to be strong. I am not sure what substance they're referring to exactly, but that's what I read up on.

I saw a video with a man who is a counselor for narconon. He was explaining how long drugs stay in your system. He said he was clean for 16 years, eating right, excersicing and feeling good. He went to into a sauna because they had a new program and it involved the sauna and he said that the guy who was in the sauna melted and he was having bad hallucinations. He used to do a lot of LSD and the fat surrounding your veins leached into his bloodstream out whatever was left of his partying days . That is crazy. Everything I have done in my life, I am scared of ever going into an infrared sauna now.

GA-- Marie, I know how you feel. When I was on tramadol, when my back and legs hurt, I would take more. I always thought, "if I could just knock out this pain, maybe I'll be good for a few days". So I took more and more of it. It dictated my life. I felt empty without it. I still feel empty, like in my mind maybe I'm not a whole person. I wish you the best of luck. Look up everything you can on Opana. It is a hellacious drug. I've taken a few too, and it is super strong, it makes me nauseated and makes me throw up. It makes me nod off. It is a scary drug to me. I have never nodded off on anything in my life, and get nauseous... I like to feel like I have control, somewhat. Talk about getting loopy. I would recommend a sloooooow slow taper if possible. Like, talk to your doctor about putting you on immediate release Opana to do the taper or something. If you have to just take a sliver of the medicine less, do that. It is a dangerous drug in my opinion. You can take my thoughts with a grain of salt, but I can only imagine how hard it would be to become addicted to that drug and quit. It is parent drug of Oxycodone. Just be very very careful with it, we don't want anything to happen with you.

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by legaljunky, Dec 12, 2011
Hi again GA- So many questions and I have such a bad memory!

I don't remember how long my taper was because there were times when I needed to be clear-headed so I didn't reduce my dose till I could handle WD again.  PAWS=Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome or Symptoms occurs around 30, 60, and 90 days after you are Tram free and it is a flare up of WD symptoms for a few days.  I've been jumping for joy because after my 90 day PAWS I feel like the person I was before Tram for the first time since all this addiction business.  I have never been addicted to anything else so I don't know if other addictions have PAWS.

Detox has been physical and emotional and only because of addiction.  I am very lucky- I am now on Voltaren for my arthritis back pain so I have no pain.  So many of you don't have a good alternative to opiates for pain.  My heart goes out to you.  There have to be answers and I hope and pray you find them.

40mg-  When I got down to 40mg I felt so awful-exhaustion, depression, oppressive anxiety, nightmares and talking in my sleep, tummy ache, headache, restless leg syndrome, couldn't slow my head down to focus, very short tempered, diarhea and more stuff I'm sure.  I felt so bad I decided I probably wouldn't feel any worse if I stopped altogether so I did it.  The first day I had 0 Tram was 9/10/11 and that was the first I started posting.  So go back to that post and I remember I posted all the remedies for WD symptoms.

The 4 days of 40mg and 4 days (approx) of 0 Tram were the worst emotionally and physically.  On day 5 I felt noticeably better and from then on it's been kind of up and down but slowly getting better and better.  And today the cloud in my head just lifted and I am totally back!

Here are some of the remedies I can remember-
Drink lots of water
tummy ache (I threw up once)- peppermint tea with cayenne and honey
restless leg syndrome- lots of magnesium
tired- Sublingual B12
post- as often as you need- it always made me feel better

Can't remember anything else!  I am also on Elavil and Clonazepam(for sleep problems of Lyme disease), Lexapro (for depression from brain damage by Lyme)  Even with all these meds I still had some depression in WD.  Thankfully my sleep meds let me get some sleep in the beginning of 0 Tram and altho I wake up during the night I can get back to sleep.

I'm telling you how recovery has been for me.  But we're all different and have different stories to tell.  I love all my fellow Tramadevil fighters, they have helped me so much.

I love my ticker!  When my husband retired we moved near the ocean- I love it here and my ticker box even has seagulls!
Sunshine makes me happy too.  I feel like the tracker was designed just for me!

I am praying you will find some relief and I know you will get your own ticker!  Take 1 day at a time  That's all any of us have.

Love, strength and perseverance!


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by turkeytrotter, Dec 13, 2011
Has withdraws ever effected your blood pressure? I have a history of it and was on meds but my running made it go down and it was perfect till this mess started...It was holding in 140s (top number) but tonight it was 156/102. I had a massive headache and felt dizzy. I went to sleep and feel a lot better but that scares me.

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by fightorfight, Dec 13, 2011
Evening all,

Turkey---   Yup, tram will effect your BP due to a few things.   For the Acute days, you're dealing with the issues coming off the opoid part of the drug--- so you get the chills/sweats/chills/sweats etc.   After that, and maybe for a month or so out (depending on your time on it, dose..) you'll get norepinephrine spikes.   Which are characterized  in the manner that you describe.    Thats ok, actually, and something again, that will go away with more time.   I still get them myself whenever stress is high, or when I push myself too hard at the gym.    Everybody has their own triggers, but if you can see it through you'll be alright.    In that circumstance, I'd do exactly what you did, lay down--- stabilize and give it some time to even out.     I know I keep saying "Time. Time Time...", but thats really what this is in the end.    There is a point, however, where it goes from discomfort to dangerous, and if thats the case--- go to the ER or Urgent care.     Tram wacks out the adrenal system fiercely, be careful, and be patient.

DamTram-  I have experience tapering from both Klonopin and Seroquel.    If you want my honest opinion, I'd take on one beast at a time.    Your Seroquel dose isn't too bad, its still primarily a histamine antagonist there and,  as you go through these W/Ds, I'd hold out on dropping that by very much.   Of all of them, I'd say its the most benign at your present dose, and any sleep you can get for the next week or so is going to be very helpful--- along with it spurring hunger, hopefully allowing you to eat a little bit more through the nausea that Tram W/D causes.     Far as the Klons, thats tricky, but doable.   Again, if you're steady on 1mg (or as steady as steady can be now) stay there for another week or so.    Half life being what it is, you'll want to cut down in quarter pill increments every 5-6 days.    You'll plateau (or you may be right now) on a dose where you'll need to extend the time at dose for another 2-3 days.    Thats okay, you need to give your body some time to adjust.
I guess my overarching message would be--- Get through the Tram acutes first.     Re-prioritize thereafter,  waging a multi-front war right now isn't advisable unless its something that you really want to do.   In which case, you'll compound the anxiety and insomnia issues.  

I'll post more a bit later--- GA, welcome to the forum again,  I'll be posting more for you when I've read up a bit more on it.  

Take care all.


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by DamTram, Dec 13, 2011
FightorFight:  Thank you so, so, so much.  That was very specific, perfect advice.  Probably more of both than I've gotten from any of my doctors.  It's funny, I came on right now BECAUSE of the return to the land of insomnia.  I definitely need to stabilize on the 1mg, and will attempt your lovely plan thereafter.

Because of the insomnia, that being the original reason for prescription, its being the least evil, and its ability to ease opiate wd...I may go back up to the 75mg until this acute wd and following klonopin taper are finished. Not to be captainess obvious, here, but I HATE being tired and having my brain just keep going.  I do not like the middle of the night.

I know that I friended you last year when I went CT; were you not withdrawing back then?  By last year, I mean January of this year.  I see your ticker says 47 days (congrats, and thank you for sticking around to help!); what's your story from this year?

GA - No one should have to live in pain.  For those who need relief, why is it any different than someone who has to take thyroid or BP meds for the rest of their lives?  I must've missed why you're forcing yourself off - is there nothing else that you can take long term?

I'm reading a book (okay, I HAVE the book) Say Goodnight to Insomnia, and it claims that people (like me) who think they can sleep unassisted actually can.  Since that's not what I currently believe, given my painful bladder syndrome, and I keep ending up on tram bc the resulting fibro pain and fatigue make me forget Tramageddon, I feel like Seroquel is something I may have to always take - EXCEPT, I have fatty liver (disease?) and seroquel is bad, bad, bad for Mr. Liver.  Bladder tx's have been unsuccessful...except for opiates.  So these are my conundra.  See, insomnia is breaking Latin rules and making up words for me.

Thank you, again, FightorFight (can I call you Supermanygdala?  It's what I think when I type your name and have to leave out the "l"?).  Going to stare at the seroquel bottle, book, and the wall, now.

Sending out magical pain-relief vibes from cold, rainy LA.

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by DamTram, Dec 13, 2011
1) not to downplay those having real winter (I ct'd in Chicago last January).
2) I would like to see my ticker.

<3

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by DamTram, Dec 13, 2011
Ok, so.  I stared at the seroquel bottle, and decided to take the 25mg to resume my maintenance dose of 75mg to a) ease wd and b) hope off the benzo train to nowhere.

Then I finally got past the book's intro (Say Goodnight to Insomnia, by Gregg Jacobs, PhD), the one that claims 100% of readers can improve their sleep and 75% can not be insomniacs anymore, is amazing.  I feel like I just read a summary of my own life in the first 2 chapters, and guess what chapter 3 is about?  Benzodiazepines!  Now I'm almost as mad about being prescribed them as I am about tramapoison.  Almost.

Anyway, if any of you out there have problems falling asleep, staying asleep, or plain waking up refreshed - I am not kidding, check out this book.  Drug-free, life-long sleep change.  Promoting self-esteem, control, and self-efficacy.

I just wish I could read faster...eyes...tired.

Tired people have more physical pain, depression, anxiety, and fatigue.  So if you're reading this journal, you can probably commiserate about sleep issues (duh, for those of us days 1-7).  When I went ct last time, I was convinced we all had everything inside of us that we already need (minus those of us who will die w/o whatever hormone, steroid, surgery, injection, etc.).  Clearly, I stopped believe that...hence my relapse.

Well, I'm taking that stance back!  Let's sort out the life-threatening conditions, and rely on ourselves for the rest.  This may involve reading a book (or 2 or 3), seminaring, etc...but let's believe.  That we have what we need to be functional and even happy, but that we maybe just have more to learn about how.

Sorry for the rambles.  Day 3!  Whoop!  (-_-) zzz....

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by GA_need_help, Dec 13, 2011
FighorFight, DamTram, Legal Junky, Denise

FightorFlight, My last post got placed on the the last thread.  Did you get to read the post I read about me?  Maybe I should re-post it.  As Denise said it is a VERY strong version of oxycodone.  
Denise and Legal Junky, thanks for the reminders to take it slow.  Surely, what brings me down is wanting to do this faster than my body will let me!
DamTram--Yes, I believe i shouldn't have to live in pain!
   Yes I do have a real pain issue.  And it adds a great big layer of complexity.  DamTram I also believe that no one should have to live in pain.  My issue is that I am having some problems with being on Opiates.  I believe I have hyperalgesia -- increased pain because of opiates, and;  hyperneuroexcitability--where the brain is hyper and it is hard to find peace!  I still have pain while on the meds!  Indeed, I am worried that the pain may be worse while off the meds., but I don't know.  I do know I don't want to live with the pain I get sometimes in the middle of my back.  That is the worst for me.  At this point, my husband has talked to me about being concerned that the meds have become an addiction.  And now, to my dismay, the NP that sees me at my doctor's office wants to continue tapering me--so there is a bit of pressure on me!  I have a months to get to 20 mg., and to get comfortable--just taking the PRNs when really needed.  I plan on doing my best with this.  It is the mental aspect that scares me.  And, it is result of less Opiates because last night I took 10 mg more than what I am trying to do (maintain 25mg X3).  I don't know when  the extra pain is going to throw a little interest in my taper.  I believe God is trying to teach me to be patient and to peservere!
Thanks so much.  You guys are so awesome.  I hope we can hang out in heaven on day (seriously).  
Marie

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 13, 2011
Thanks FOF, I feel much better this morning! I still get either cold or sweat...not as severe as I was but its still there. I told doc about that, he said it probably will be there a little longer and get better with time. I hope that time comes very soon; I am losing what little patience I had....at least in 5 days I'll be a full month. I did not know this stuff screws with your adrenal system...will that eventually recover?

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by DamTram, Dec 13, 2011
Marie - I'm so sorry for your condition, and very angry that no one is providing you with an alternative, non-opiate option (steroid injections, anything!).  Here in califonia, it is posted everywhere that it is your right as a patient to be treated effectively for pain.  Your NP is hurting you, and not addressing next steps and this is adding anxiety to your increased pain.  I've read years of posts on this forum, and specifically for tramadol users, most find that their pain actually gets better upon termination.  I don't know what state you're in, but as I'm clearly spending my winter break wkd awake 24/7, I have a mind to come have a word with your NP!  If there is a condition, then there is a treatment.  Let's find out what it is.

Turkey - I love your name.  The freezingburnng really will get better, and your adrenals will start to recover.  There s something called 'adrenal stress end', but I think it would be cheaper to buy the ingredients separately. They are: vit c 150mg, vit b6 50mg, pantothenic acid (as calcium d-pantothenate) 100mg, adrenal polypeptide fractions 400mg, betaine 250mg, l-tyrosine 250mg, licorice root and Rhizome extract 200mg, adrenal cortex extract 33mg.

After actually typing those, I'd say either buy the product or choose some of the ingredients to buy?  And know that the adrenal ingredients are coming from cows.  Not vegetarian.

With proper diet, exercise, sleep, and relaxation...they will recover. Our bodies are whacktastic like that.

So, I finally slept for an hour and was rudely awakened either by my cats or my bladder (I fed them early to try to avoid this situation), and was so mad and wanted to be unconscious.  I popped some Soma, started reading the sleep book again, read about 3 sentences of the sleep aid chapter before I decided to head to the bathroom to void my tummy in the upward direction.  I was reading about how that would only make the next night worse, and was just me still believing that sleep must be delivered externally.  

I'm the boss!

But you guys! This doctor spend an entire page describing how to properly taper!  A real psychiatrist!  Detailing a taper!

So I came back to tell you that this book is so awesome and relevant to us, that if you PM me your address, I will send you a copy for the holidays.  No one should live in pain, and everyone should be able to sleep on their own.  I'm serious.

Anyway, sorry to hijack this journal.  It was such a big part of my recovery last time, and although it is sad and devasting that a) this is still a global problem and b) I relapsed, I am so glad that you guys are here.

I'm struggling this time because I'm not experiencing the rebirth of myself like last time, but perhaps this is the rebirth of my admittance that my confidence and my feelings of having control must be constantly nurtured.  Only then will I be able to avoid pain by sleeping deeply, and dealing with the pain using internal sources.

I hope the construction workers took today off...

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by booba77, Dec 13, 2011
Hello all.  DamTram-I feel for you.  I am not looking forward to the insomnia.  I have 9 trams left.  4 for the rest of today, 5 for tomorrow.  I am just really scared.  Still haven't put the christmas tree up.  House still in shambles.  I guess I will have lots of free time while I'm pacing the floors not sleeping.  So If I take the rest of my tram before lunch tomorrow, and take off Thursday Friday, and am off the weekend, do you guys think I would be able to come back to work Monday?  I really have no choice.  I have no vacation left.  I really wanted to take a leave of absence for awhile to try to help my parents with research on what the psychics found on my brother, but I am too scared to ask.  I have been here 11 years, and they have already worked with me on so many things I feel I can't ask for anymore.  I woke up extremely grouchy and agitated, which is common when you haven't dosed in awhile.  I'm so not ready for the hell that lies ahead.  I am trying to mentally prepare, but it is really difficult between work, my brother, the new kitten, Christmas, my fiancees medical issues, etc.  Also-when should I start the wellbutrin?  I think FOF said I could start before I took the last trams, because there is little chance of seratonin syndrome, especially since I have dropped my dose so quickly.  I guess I better get to work.  Payroll waits for me.......Have a great day guys.  

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 13, 2011
Thanks DamTram, I like yours too. turkeytrotter was the first thing that popped in my head when I joined because it was Thanksgiving or day before. I am so sorry you are miserable. I wish I could offer advice but think the others did better job of that than I could. Hang in there, you're doing great!

My back was bothering me last night but I just delt with it, I am seriously turned off on taking any pills that aren't related to my transplant....My dad asked me yesterday did I need anymore tram that he had some doc gave him for his back but they didnt work. I told him God no, flush that sh****!

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by DamTram, Dec 13, 2011
Booba - if I were you, I would take your last does tonight and flush the rest. Or take more today and a tiny bit tomorrow morning, only.  In my stupid experience, days 2-4 are the worst.  I don't really hit non-functional until over 24 hours of my last dose. For you, that would be late Thursday, early Friday.  You want more time on the back end then the front end.  But if there is any way that they would give you a leave, take it.  You a ton going on, and you need to be able to heal without the pressure of having it happen ASAP.  Just more stress on the body and brain.  On night 1 (this time), I managed to drive 16 miles and back to a professor's house for a holiday gathering and stay for a whole hour.  TPray is day 4, and I'm going on a total of 5 hours of sleep that occurred in 3 chunks, but the burning freezing is almost gone.

My personal discovery on tram was GABA, 750mg.  I've taken it morning and night since I quit tram, and the depths of my wd have been much shallower - almost no aching or restless legs at all.  No heart attacks or tremors.  No piercing headaches.  Just nausea, burn/freeze, some anxiety, and insomnia.  So if you haven't, try that and the 5-htp (seratonin) precursor that saved many of us from brain saps and the sads.  You may not even need the wellbutrin, but wait until you stop tram to start...just in case.

Turkey - I'll have to go read back - what transplant?  Keep that aversion to tram; I've found that I lose it about every 90 days when some dr has to make a pain-killer decision. "oh, trams?  Sure, doc" thinking a few days or a week on it is ok.  It's never ok.  As soon as it runs out, I'm convinced that I can no longer survive life without it.  The devil, I tell you.

But, Booba - if you take my advice and start Wednesday, have tons of immodium on hand.  That was the worst part of day 1.

Good luck today, fighters.


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by turkeytrotter, Dec 13, 2011
DamTram, I had liver transplant 20 years ago; don't worry....I don't think I'll EVER forget this crap....i'd rather die than do this again....

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by booba77, Dec 13, 2011
What is GABA and where can I find it?  I have to go to rite aid on the way home tonight to pick up epson salt, immodium, my wellbutrin refill, imitrex (maybe once off of the tram I can actually take it for my migraines rather than just suffering....lol).  Would it be in the vitamin/supplement aisle?  I may take more today and less tomorrow.  I feel rather ill right now.  Maybe cherry cheesecake wasn't the best lunch option.  One of our shop guys made it for us so I had to try it at least.  

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by DamTram, Dec 13, 2011
I don't think regular pharmacies have it, but maybe.  It's worth looking. Otherwise, whole foods an natural food stores should.  Worst case - overnight ship from amazon.  Good luck!

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by booba77, Dec 13, 2011
I will just check at Rite Aid tonight.  I don't have the funds for the overnight shipping from Amazon.  I'm financially embarrassed at the moment-actually most moments these days.  Maybe GNC will have it.  I may check there before the initial WDs get too bad, which will likely be tomorrow @ 2 PM in my estimation.  I still have some left, but I will probably take only 2 or 3 tomorrow morning so I can be awake and lucid enough to drive to work.  Not sure if I will make it through the whole work day tomorrow but I will try.  I would like to try the Gaba if I can find it.  It does something to your receptors, and that must what helps with the WDs.  

FOF-If I take GABA, can I take it while taking wellbutrin, or is that too much craziness for the brain receptors?  Would you suggest just taking the GABA or just taking the Wellbutrin or take both?  I know that wellbutrin helps with the energy deficit experienced with tram withdrawal, and that is why I chose it to begin with, that an to quit smoking, which has yet to happen.  

Damtram-Great name, btw.  I wish I could take a leave of absence.  I can maybe take Thursday and Friday and that is it.  If I an in too much of a bad way on Monday, I guess I could come in and try to work, but if it goes South, I could leave.  I don't want anyone here to know.  I'm ashamed enough of doing to this myself again.  You would think they would be more understanding with what is going on with my brother.  I took time off when he first went missing, so I'm scared to abuse any more leave.  I get 2 weeks a year, and a week of sick leave.  I think that ***** for being here 11 years, but I guess I'm really blessed to still have a job that hasn't been cut back or eliminated during this rough economy.  I may have one day of vacation left and a day of sick, and whatever else I miss they will take away from my annual leave from next year.  

Just an update-I have a "famous" psychic working on my brother's case-she does investigative psychic work and her job is to pinpoint his exact location, get GPS coordinates, and ensure that law enforcement follows up on them.  I'm pretty excited to have additional help, because this case is still fairly stagnant.  All I want for Christmas is my brother home and safe, but if that is not possible, I want closure for my parents so that they can move on and start the healing process.  That will be harder if it is a homicide, because then there will be a trial, etc.  My dad just got over bladder and prostate cancer.  When it rains, it pours.  

Don't worry tram warriors.  One day our ship will come in-I just hope when it does I'm not at the airport....lol.

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by DamTram, Dec 13, 2011
Booba, keep up the humor!  You could check gnc's website or call to see if they carry it.  Or the drugstore, too.  That's what I did when I left the house for the first time last withdrawal, and someone said you can get hyland's leg cramps at walgreens.

I'm so glad your brother's case is progressing.  I will be thinking of you.  The job thing *****, but you're right...at least you still have one!  And I promise they don't want train someone new when they have someone with 11 years on board.

Wishing the best to all.

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by Icandothis10, Dec 13, 2011
getting on the plane tomorrow morning and will be flying for the next 36 hrs or so.  Still holding at about 6 a day, sometimes 7 a day.  I need to get over there, get on a routine so I can continue this taper.  I NEED to come home in June clean from Tram....

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by fightorfight, Dec 13, 2011
Evening guys and gals,

DamTram-   Glad I could offer some advice.    I went CT in the Middle of April 2010 from a 600-1000mg a day habit that I had gotten to over the course of two years.   Like a lot of people, after the first few months went by, I stopped coming back here much--- though I'm very thankful this is still here and going.   My stint this time was with it being prescribed to me after complications from shoulder surgery this September, essentially a two month ordeal at 400mgs a day.    Its interesting, my posts from back then and my posts from now are so different, I almost sound like a different person.     A lot of things in my life have changed since then--- my grandmother's condition got worse, I also am pursuing a nursing degree (having been a Comp Sci graduate) because of my time through Tram, and interactions with doctors regarding my grandmother.   I feel I can do some good for people, and am feverishly learning as much as I can about practical medicine and pharmacology.    Its strange how things work out--- but there is my story.    Hopefully you're doing better today, and I'm glad to see your posts.  

Booba -  You can take GABA with Wellbutrin.    Its sold primarily in health food stores/GNC etc.   There are some preparations mixed with melatonin.   Think of it as a mild nerve stabilizer.  Its primarily a precursor for the GABA receptors in your brain, something that Benzos also hit (although the latter actually hit the sites),  GABA has a hard time crossing the Blood Brain barrier in the formulations that are sold--- but every little bit helps honestly, and if you don't have a panic med coming off, it'll be more helpful than having nothing.       As far as Wellbutrin, taking it alongside Tramadol wont hurt you--- but it wont have a chance to do much for you until you're done with the Tram.    Smoking cessation will be helped once your a-7 receptor stops getting hit by Tram, as I talked about earlier.   I hope for the best for you as you start trying to get off the medication.     Be as kind to yourself as you can be, and you can do this.

Ican-  I hope for the safest of trips for you, and I hope that you can get into a routine once you get over there.   You're a strong lady--- and I admire your dedication to getting off this drug throughout a difficult time.  

I hope everyone else is having a good day.    Winter is already hitting its stride here in the Northeast, and the cold temperatures are either refreshing, or blistering, depending on how things are going for me each day.    Keep up the good work everyone.

FOF


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by Sarabie, Dec 13, 2011
First of all, a warm welcome to Marie and Damtram. I'm sorry you are suffering but I'm sure glad you are here with us!!!

Ican if you read this before you leave - have a safe flight. I'll be thinking of you :-)

Booba - pheeeew that's a tough situation. If you are sitting down at work it should be possible to go back Monday. We are All different and I sincerely hope you'll managed. I didn't get out of the house for the first week after my CT. Was way too fragile. But I had popped tram for five years and that couldn't be erased in a few days. I will check in often to see how you are doing.

FoF - with All that knowledge I really hope you'll get a job where it can come to use!!! You deserve it. In the mean time we all benefit from your studies and love it!

I learned a very important lesson this weekend. Apparantly I don't have "i've been addicted to tramadol for five years, hurt people I love and done really stupid things" tatooed on my forehead. People still value my opinion, laugh at my jokes and find me interessting. What a fantastic thing to discover!

I broke my ankle and ripped the tendoms 6 years ago and it still hurts when it's cold outside. So I'm a bit handicapped these days but really really happy.

Love Susie

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by Sarabie, Dec 13, 2011
Oh just realized that I'll be clean 100 days on Christmas eve. Think that's the Best present I could ever give myself :-)

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by DamTram, Dec 14, 2011
My dumb behind.  If my last dose was the night of the 9th, then I guess I'm a day off and just finished day 4.  Dang!  I'm on day 5?  Or night 4 and day 5?  No wonder everything except the insomnia was getting better..

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by DamTram, Dec 14, 2011
Early Day 5!  All fixed.

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by DamTram, Dec 14, 2011
I. Am. So. Tired.  I slept from 9pm to 11pm on my normal 1mg and 75mg, decided I would break out the lunesta (not knowing how I could survive another day without sleep), and was still wide awake at 1am.  I took my Revitalizing Sleep Formula, and...nothing.  At 2:30, feeling sick with tired and mad, I put the lunesta in the reject drawer and broke down and took 3 Soma and read my 'Say Goodnight to Insomnia' book.  It is after 3:30.  What, exactly about tram, is not allowing my eyes to close?  This is out of control.  I don't care if I can barely walk tomorrow, I'll be running at least 20 minutes.  If exercise is at the root of all of the problems leading to insomnia, fine.  But why doesn't my body WANT to rest in recovery?  Are we really in a sleep stage on trams?  What is going on.  I love sleeping - this is very sad and scary, since now I'm taking even more drugs to try to cope.

When will this get better?  

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by booba77, Dec 14, 2011
I took my last trams about an hour ago.  They are all gone.  I'm not ordering anymore.  I'm done with this horrible stuff for good this time.  Even if I have to come on this website every day for life to remind myself how it has ruined our lives.  So when does the fun begin?  My guess will be this evening.  It is funny, my parents want to take my shopping Saturday.  I bet I will be in great shape by then.  Time to live under the guise of "the flu".  Oh how I am dreading this-the RLS, diarrhea, insomnia, brain fog and zaps, lack of energy, but most of all-the crippling depression.  I'm hoping the wellbutrin will offset that somewhat, and if I can find some Gaba before I'm out of service hopefully that will help too.  I couldn't do any of this without you all.  I really couldn't.  No one else understands-unless you have been through it.  Thank you all for being there for me.


Damtram-I was on tram for several years, and went cold turkey from a high dose.  Insomnia last quite a while for me.  Even with melatonin, sominex, etc I couldn't sleep.  Just keep trying and don't give up.  I never tried ambien or lunesta-they always scared the crap out of me for some reason.  It will take a long time to be able to sleep through the night.  What I used to do (and will be doing probably tonight and the rest of the nights for the next month) was to run a bath with epsom salt and sit it in-make it so hot you can barely stand it!  Then put on a ton of clothes and swaddle yourself right and try to sleep.  It helped me immensely.  Try to sleep as much as you can, and if you have laid there for hours, try to read or go do something else.  I know it is terrible.  I remember all to well.

FOF-Thank you so much for your help.  I will try to run to GNC today or tomorrow.  You really are quite knowledgeable.  I haven't started the wellbutrin yet.  How much do you suggest I take?  The doc put me on 3 50 mg a day, but of course I wasn't taking them because of the trams.  I guess sticking to docs dose would be best for now.  I live in the Northeast too, well, Virginia.  I'm not sure if we are still in the Northeast since we are South of the Mason-Dixon line.  

Sarabie-Luckily I sit at a desk all day-I'm a pencil pusher.  I always say I work in Waste Management-because my office is the graveyard of work no one else wants to do.  I am going to try like hell to come back here on Monday.

Icandothis-Good luck on your flight.  Stay safe.  Good luck with the taper-be strong!

Still waiting on the latest psychic to tell me where my brother's body lies.  There is a ton of snow out where he lives, so even with a location I'm sure no one will be searching.  My poor parents.  I was hoping something would happen before Christmas.  Or that my brother would walk through the door Christmas morning.  Without hope, we have nothing, so I'm trying to be positive for them.  

I better get to work before the beginnings of the withdrawals set in.  Love and peace to you all.  God bless.

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by legaljunky, Dec 14, 2011
Damtram-  No sleep is unbearable- I had it with Lyme disease in the beginning and have been on sleep RX ever since.  Back then I first tried supplements and found that Melatonin had the opposite effect on me- it kept me up all night.  Hope you find relief soon.

Booba- You are in the most painful mix of events.  I believe in psychics because I think there is a lot more going on in the universe than most of us are attuned to. For instance, when someone behind you is staring at you, you can feel it.  Some people are more sensitive to a lot more than most of us are. And our dog knows when my husband's heart is not beating right and she will not let me leave his side.  I'm praying for peace for you and your family in every area of your lives.

FOF- It is so obvious to all of us that you belong in medicine!  I thought you already were!  What you are doing for your Grandmother is wonderful for her and painful for you.  On a flight home from FL I was seated next to a woman who was coming home after "helping her aunt die".  What a beautiful way to look at it- death is the natural part of life and I had never before accepted it as such.

Icandothis- Safe trip and safety in Kuwait.  Stay strong and I know you will figure what is reasonable for you. I look forward to hearing from you, you are part of our family.  I'll be thinking of you and praying to you.

Turkertrotter-  Tramadevil hangs on sooooooooooo long.  Two days ago I definitively felt completely done with it after 90 day PAWS- no sweats, and a totally clear head.

Sarabie- Isn't it wonderful?!

I can't believe how good I feel.  Energy all day, sleep is normal, and 2 days ago I felt clear headed enough to get back to design a new necklace, and I felt aware enough to use my acetylene torch.  I'm back!  All of me!  I didn't know if that was ever gonna be possible!

So many of you are still struggling in the Tramadevil cave I was in for so long.  You'll get out!!!  Just keep going!!

Love, strength and perseverance!!

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 14, 2011
Tramadevil, I like that...lol

come on 30 days, get here already....

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Dec 14, 2011
I've been having a hard time .  No tram since November 15 so it is almost a month.  I went on a clonidine patch for 24 hours for anxiety and had a horrible reaction.  My legs got tingly and achy and I already have leg pain.  I freaked out and called the doctor twice.  I just have to ride it out.  I lowered my blood pressure too much I think.

I am so depressed I can't eat and I'm still thinking a lot about wanting to die.  My therapist said the Tram covered up underlying depresssion.  I think it contributed to depression.  I made some bad decisions on tram and ignored a lot of my life.  I feel very trapped right now.  I don't want to take any more drugs at all.  I'm not sure if the clonidine damaged anything.  I only had a .1 mg patch on for 1 day.  I've been off of it for 5 days.  But I think my liver is not working so good at getting it out of my system.  I'm going to start a liver cleanse every day.

I don't crave the Tram.  I'm having night sweats due to menopause and having an incredible depression.  Its hard to exercise due to the pain and tingling in my legs.  I hate to whine but I just can't seem to find comfort in anything.  My business is really slow and money is coming in very slowly now.  I'm so far behind the curve in social media I think it has hurt me.  I have no energy.  

I don't trust doctors to help me.  I got in this situation because a spinal injection gave me pain,  the tram covered the pain.  The clonidine covered the anxiety  (from tram withdrawal) and caused more pain.  The last anti-depressant I took caused me bladder damage that took months to get better.

I understand why people commit suicide during the holidays.  I live far away from my family who I'm not that close to anyway.   I have no children of my own.  My boyfriend lives with me and I basically support him.  He tries to be supportive, but I'm emotional and depressed and he doesn't know what to do.  He is trying to help me with my business, but I am just shutting down in all kinds of ways.   I'm reaching out as much as I can but I'm not a very stable person.  I think I'm wearing everyone out.

Years ago I started a business and have been doing it by myself for 17 years.  But I'm getting older and worn out and I can't do what I used to do.  My boyfriend cannot pick up the slack.  My father died last year.  I never took advantage of him financaily, but he always had my back if I needed him.  

I'm working a little today, but will check for posts.  I'm sorry I haven't kept up with other posts.  I am not very computer savy and don't have an ipad or even a smartphone.  

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 14, 2011
DamTram - Sleeping was the most annoying part of it all.  It took 10 days for me.  I was like you, I was taking Nyquil, benadryl, melatonin, and double doses of it all, and it wouldnt phase me.  After awhile it becomes a mental game, you fear the nights, you always wonder "will I sleep tonight".  I think your mind makes it continue longer than it has to.  Might try trazadone, you have to get a script but any doc will prescribe it since its non-addicting.  Its not even meant to be a sleep-aid, it was supposed to be an early anti-depressant made in the late 70s I believe.  Anyways, it is commonly prescribed for insomnia because of lack of abuse or addiction potential.  However, I get the worst stuffed up nose while I take it that it almost makes it worse to sleep.  If I ever talked to my GF on the phone after taking one she would always ask if I have a cold or something.  It was so annoying.  Plus it made me hungry.

When I went CT I just had this hate for pills, and I had xanax but didnt even touch them.  I would take everything but the prescription stuff.  The only sleep I would get is when my body just had to have it, but I would wake up instantly after an hour.  Plus I would sweat out 5 gallons of water whenever I did fall asleep.  It was unreal.

As for the GABA, you can actually kinda feel it for about 10 minutes or so, its barely noticeable, but you can tell you took something.  I imagine the potency varies per brand, I think all vitamins are like that.

Unfortunately, there isnt any OTC pill to make any significant difference.  I have tried GABA, Tyrosine, Vitamin B6 & B12, Magnesium, Kava Kava, Valerian Root, St. Johns Wort, basically anything that you didnt need a script for.  I still suggest taking them as your body does need some nutrients, but dont spend hundreds of $$ because you think its going to save you.  I would def suggest immodium and lots of it.  You are going to dread going #2 after awhile, so go ahead and splurge on the most comfortable toilet paper is available.  Its somewhat gross to talk about but even the flushable wet wipes are good to have.

The worst is no doubt the mental part of it.  Especially if you had been abusing the drug because of not being happy about something in your life.  Whatever that is just gets magnified by 10x during the 1st 4 days.  However, at least the last time I went CT, Day 3 was so bad that Day 4 just seemed so much better because it wasnt Day 3 again, that continues until you are over the physical stuff.

Then its just dull, everything is boring, you dont care about anything, you dont want to do anything. You have to pretend to laugh at someones jokes, or smile even though its the last thing you want to do.  All you really want is to be left alone.  Social events are horrible, you dont want to come across as this downer but its so hard to pretend everything is ok.  You notice yourself walking around with your head down, just very mopey and lethargic.

There will come a point when you are really angry and embarrassed at yourself when you realize how much time you wasted, and just think about all the stupid crap you did.  I mean, we are all angry at ourselves now, but there will be a phase after the initial WDs where that sadness turns into anger.  I remember painting my whole house when I used to get all the energy from Tram, then when I was clean just looking at the newly painted walls made me want to move because it just reminded me of that time.  Same goes for this forum, I couldnt come back to it afterwards, I just didnt want to even think about it anymore.  I was just too disgusted by it all.  

After I relapsed was when I just started making stupid decisions.  That was when I finally decided to come back and work overseas, I told myself it would bring excitement back to my life, but deep down I think I also went thinking I could run from this problem. The addiction just followed me, however I had just been put on Adderall as well so I was taking that with Kratom because it helped with the appetite loss Aderral gave me. I hated that feeling off never wanting to eat.  However, the Kratom and Adderall were enough back then to keep the depression at bay, I knew I screwed up by leaving and I had no idea how to mend it.  So I think I had one or two days since Feb 2011 that I havent taken a single pill, whether it was Kratom, Adderall, or Tram.  

Anyways, I am rambling and have told this story more than once.  The only positive is that I have a job which pays well even though I am in a bad location.  I have had too many changes in the past year to really ever feel stable enough to successfully taper.  I wont be able to do a CT here with the doses I am at, unless its a forced one.  However, if I can taper under 10 pills (currently 20) a day and have a routine already in place that will ease the depression then I think I can do a CT.  I did it before when I was taking 15 a day.

My goal is not to come back to the US still on these.  Granted I wont be "healed", but I just want to be somewhat more stable.  I really wish I never found these pills, I have always LOVED opiates, but not enough to actually hunt down dealers to get them.  This drug is so easy to access that the temptation to put in an order will always be there in the back of my mind bugging the crap out of me.  I really hope it becomes a controlled substance, I know it will eventually because of the amount of addictions.  There is a reason all those online websites advertise tramadol on the front page, its the best seller.

To all those in the withdrawal stages, just tough it out.  Write down encouraging phrases, i even did it with a marker on a mirror.  It just seemed to help stay strong.  This isnt going to kill you, and you have to quit some time or another so just get it over with.  How many times have we ran out of meds and were forced to go a few days of hell until that prescription came in.  Then some time goes by and you just wonder where you would be if you just held out for a few more days?  I always think about that, I know my life would be VASTLY different.





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by DamTram, Dec 14, 2011
I just wrote a really long post to yoyo and don't have the strength to do it again.  Yoyo, tell someone around you that you feel like you want to die.  They will help you get to the help you need to get out of that deep, dark hole I'm all too familiar with.  I have painful bladder syndrome, and I always will.  But that shouldn't stop you from seeing a therapist and trying a different AD.  Send me a message, and we can talk on the phone if you like.  But most of all, be kind to yourself.  You are and have been going through a lot!

Thank you for the insomnia empathy.  I'm hoping my book can do the cognitive restructuring it says it will.  Last night was one of the most awful.

Stay strong, be kind to yourselves, and ask for help from those around you when you need it.  Even if you feel like you have no one or are embarrassed, you'll be surprised to see who rises to occasion.

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by legaljunky, Dec 14, 2011
Yoyo-  Don't be alone in your thoughts.  Your thoughts are a permanent solution to temporary problem.  I remember when I was at my deepest depression and it hurt so bad I wanted to be dead and saw no possibility of change.  I'm so glad I just kept going because my life is wonderful today- not perfect but wonderful Things will change and we will be there for you as you go thru your hell and come out the other side.
Does your therapist realize that coming off Tramadevil alone can cause depression?
I'm sending you love and I'll pray for you to just hang on for 1 more minute and 1 more minute---------------------

Strength and perseverance

Lorraine

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by booba77, Dec 14, 2011
Yoyo-I would definately speak to someone about the depression.  No one should have to go through that.  I, like you, had horrible depression especially after the physical withdrawals wore off.  You really should look into an antidepressant to help with it.  I can totally relate to how you are feeling.  I will be there myself shortly, as I took my last trams at 9 this morning.  The tramafog is starting to roll in now I can feel it.  Please get some help, and keep posting as you can.  We are here to help you.  Anything you need, please let us know.
Booba

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by Sarabie, Dec 14, 2011
Yoyo - You have my deepest sympathy!!!! I really wish there was something I could do for you. I hope you'll get help very soon. No one you suffer like that.

Booba - I know you can do this. It stinks, but just post post post.



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by fightorfight, Dec 14, 2011
Yoyo,

I'm sorry to hear that things aren't going so well for you--- but you're right,  Tram will cause depression.   Either by way of things done while on it (which, certainly its a huge factor), or the fact that it releases serotonin for you.   You're right that coming off Tram, even chemically, will cause depression for most people.  

I know the clonidine is probably making you feel physically weak.   Low BP will do that.   Not having the energy, compounded by not having energy from Tram can make that listlessness seem much more than a "bad day", it can get downright despondent.     In that time, or any time,  please, post here, just like you did.   Send us a message here, let us know how it feels and let it out.    Cry if you can,  it helps, I swear.   If you can't cry,  (I can't still), yell.    Turn the emotion into something else.    I know that sounds stupid, but it really really helps.     Exercise will help, but If you're still weak from the attempt at the clonidine, only a brief walk or something similarly light.    Small steps forward, are always forward.

I posted something similar when I went through my first W/D, and I got a message from someone, a lurker, who hadn't posted--- I wont say his name because I don't know his situation in this regard.    But here:...

"Hey - I just wanted to send you a little message of encouragement. I was off T for 4 months, then made a stupid decision to get back on them. Now that I realize their SNRI properties, I will never touch them again. I am closing in on 14 days off. But my main message to you is it took me around 75 days until I felt normal - until I started to enjoy all those things that I used to enjoy. The "intermediate" period of 2 weeks out to around 40 to 70+ days was the hardest for me, much harder the acue W/D. Please hang in there and you will see the "old you" come back. Some get it around 30 days, others longer, but it does come back and I actually cried when It hit me that I was normal again".

If you take a look at MrKen,  Emily, and others who have stayed on throughout the entirety of their recovery, they all noted that it took about that long to finally get the real "joy" back.     It'll improve every week, but it takes time.   Coming off an empathogen will do that--- Getting your brain to produce and then use and release Serotonin takes a long time.  But you can do it.    You absolutely can do it.    

Take care of yourself, know that each day is another step forward.   It will get better.
FoF

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by denised1982, Dec 14, 2011
I just wanted to say hello to everyone. I'm really tired right now and I don't have too much to say. Hang in there, everyone!

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by Sarabie, Dec 14, 2011
Denise you Sound like you could use a big hug. So here's a virtual one from me *hug*

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 14, 2011
Denise {{{{ hugs }}}}!!!

DamTram I got very little if no sleep the first week but when I did sleep I can tell you I think I may have went into a coma...hang in there, I am sure sleep will return to you soon!

Yoyo I am so sorry, I do not know what to say except my heart goes out to you! I hope that you can find someone to trust to talk to about all this.

I am doing ok...my bp at least for today has returned to its normal and is actually great. I ran earlier, a mile.

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by GA_need_help, Dec 14, 2011
Hi All-

I am about to go to bed, but wanted to say "hi."  I had a neat experience with meeting a new friend going through a taper too (through MedHelp).  We have been in good contact today, and it has helped.

I am ready to make a decrease in my taper.  I have tried it tonight with good results.  For me, each 3 periods in the day (times I take my pills) are different.  I could have  a lot more pain at one period than the next.  I hope I my body stays stable so I can have an easier time with the cut. It won't and I can't expect it to.  But, I can work with what my body is wiling to do.  There is A LOT of room to make progress.  It will be 2 steps forward and 1 back.  I know this takes time too.  I am learning to be patient with myself.  I know I get higher anxiety, and that isn't fun.  Sometimes I get so much anxiety that I feel like I can't function with this small amount of structure.  That's crazy because I have functioned without much structure for many years!  This is scary thinking.  This is why I am so eager to be off the opiates.  I want what small amount of mental stability I used to have back!  This emotional havoc is for the birds.  And I need what little mental stabilityI had back too!

I would love your thoughts on making decreases while doing tampers.
Big Hug.
love, Marie

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Dec 15, 2011
Thank you all for your concern.  I need to take some action to get this depression under control.  The clonidine is still in my system and making my legs tingle.  I already have some nerve damage there, so that doesn't help the situation.  

I'm not used to pouring myself out on a computer.  I'm amazed that people respond so kindly.  I have felt invisible most of my life.  I have a business where I don't have to rely on people and I do most of it myself.  Didn't mean to end up being such a loner, but I guess I am

Thank you FOF, DamTram, Booba, Denise and anyone else who responded to me.  I was in a dark place this morning.  It is now 3 am where I am at and I can't sleep.  I think a large part of it is menopause and some is the tramadol.  A couple glasses of wine made me sleepy, but I woke up.  I probably should not be drinking at all.  It contributes to depression.  But I got in the habit of a couple of glasses at night to get me down from the Tram.  And now it is helping somewhat with the anxiety.

That tram made me feel like superwoman.  I got stuff done and wanted more projects.  Now I don't want to do anything.  I need to hang in there.  Maybe I will get back on the Prozac.  My pain doc took me off of it to try the clonidine patch.  But I think I probably need something.  

Thank you all for your kindness.  I hope to be in a place where I can be encouraging to others soon.

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by GA_need_help, Dec 15, 2011
I just want to say good morning, Yoyo.  I know it is way too early for you.  I pray you will find sleep.  I was on Tram in the past (I am doing an Opana detxo) and I remember feeling energetic and being able to control my weight.  It was a dream come true for me.  But my doctor wouldn't keep writing for the tramadol--and soon I was on a very, very strong narcotic, Opana ER.  I an tapering now.  I get in a very bad place mentally during my taper.  I just say hang in there with me--even through the pain, the sleeplessness, and the misery.  

I am waking up right now.  And need to wake my 8-year-old now.  I just wanted to say I am awake, and really care about you and everything you are going through.  I am in the thick of the battle with you.  I will pray for you.

Big Hug.
Marie



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by booba77, Dec 15, 2011
Feeling rough. Took the wellbutrin, gaba, and immodium. Trying to rest. Will post later

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by DamTram, Dec 15, 2011
Booba, you just wait for that one moment in the coming hours where you say, "you know, I think I just might live"!  Stay as comfortable as possible, take 500 baths, and there will be a break in the clouds.

Post later, if you can!

My insomnia book gave me some tips that helped, and I decided that stabilizing on a fast drop in klonopin was a dumb idea for right now.  So on 2mg of that and 75mg of seroquel, I slept from 8;30pm to 3am and then 7 to 9 am.  That's almost 9 hours!  Yoyo, alcohol will put you to sleep initially, but screw with your sleep the rest of the night.  Do you have a psych doc in addition to a pain doc?  That would be way better for managing the psychological symptoms you're having.

I will stay awake til 10pm tonight! I will!  I hope this immodium starts working :/

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by Sarabie, Dec 15, 2011
So quiet in here today - you allright guys???

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by denised1982, Dec 15, 2011
Yoyoyoyo78--I'm sorry for your depression. You are in my thoughts and prayers. It is a dark place while coming off tram. I hope you sleep more, hurt less, and can find peace in recovering.. It is a long road, but you owe it to yourself to take care of yourself. We all do. {{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}

GA_need_help--Good luck on your taper. I know that you are going to have a tough time getting off the Opana. It is so hard but if you can look up other pain relieving alternatives or something it will be worth it in the long run.  I wish you the best of luck and I hope that you stay strong and show that pill who's in control. Kick @ss!

Sarabie and Turkeytrotter-- Thanks for the hugs, it's good that someone cares and I'm giving y'all a hug back!{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}

I finally got me some good sleep today. I remember one of my dreams, It was a weird one about tramadol, it was about a study on the addictive affects of tramadol. People would develope "tramadol syndrome" and it affects your brain and body in up to 64 ways. I heard trazadone makes you dream crazy sh*t, but that was VIVID, and WEIRD.

I'm glad that I am feeling like my old self again. I notice that I am not hurting as bad. I think that I end up hurting worse on any painkillers. I need to get into an exercise regimen. I'm a block from the beach, so I could walk on the beach. It's too cold to swim and I've never swam in the MS Gulf. It's too murky from the barrier islands and the Mississippi River and the Oil Spill we had last year. If I can't see what I am swimming in, I'm not doing it. There are too many eels, baby snakes, sharks and sting rays and other crazy sh*t in that water. By cat island, they have an alligator that adapted to the salt water. It's almost brackish water where I am at.  

I am in a pretty decent mood right now. I'm thankful for everyone's support. I am thankful that I am not hurting as bad. I get sick of pain everyday and I try to find my means to an end and I went the wrong direction. I am glad that everyone on here helped me to turn around. Thank you all.

<3
Denise

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by Yoyoyoyo78, Dec 15, 2011
Thank you for all your kind thoughts and prayers everyone.  

If anyone has had a reaction to the clonidine patch, please let me know.  It's been 6 days and my legs and feet are still tingling and achy.  I must be sensitive to medication.

DamTram I do have a script for prozac, but nervous about taking any meds right now.  I went to a friend of mine's house and got some Bach flower remedies.  It can't hurt.

I tried Valerian and Melatonin to try to take a nap today.  relaxed me but I didn't sleep.  I think I have more going on than Tram withdrawal.

Anyway I'm starting to ask a Higher power for help.  That is a change for me.

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by Icandothis10, Dec 15, 2011
booba?  How are you doing?  

Denise - Glad to hear you're doing better.  Pain *****, there is no doubt about that.

So, I arrived in Columbia, SC only to be told that I showed up 4 days early so I get to hang out in a hotel room until Sunday....idiots....

I somehow, between the visit from my parents, getting ready to go and trying to prepare to be gone from home for 6 months, I ended up taking 7 pills a day and not six.  So, I'm kind of stuck.  I need to get back on my routine so I can stay busy and continue with a scheduled taper....I couldn't ever imagine going back up to 30 pills a day but man, I never realized how much I rely on being busy and on a routine to help me through this tapering process.  I'm ready to keep on keeping on!

I hope everyone is doing ok.  

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by haves, Dec 16, 2011
Evening all - end of day 12 . All of my symptoms are just about gone. Expect for a weird mild throbbing headaches that I can actually feel throbbing in my forehead. I was able to get through exams without failing any classes.  Earlier this month , I thought I had to stay on tram to finish out the school. Just goes to show you my mind doesn't always - rarely - knows what' s best for me. What has helped me the most is staying busy, exercise and listening to music that makes me want to sing and dance. Best wishes to all . Time heals all wounds

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by JULIUS23, Dec 16, 2011
DAY 60....!!!!HEY YOU GUYS HOW ARE YILE DOING??/ IVE BEEN SICK WITH DA FLU BUT IM STILL FIGHTING DA BATTLE WITH TRAMADEVIL LOL... IM DOING QUITE WELL AS I HAVE MADE IT TO DAY 60 OF NO TRAMADOL AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DNT KNW I WAS TAKING IT FOR 3 1/2 YEARS AT 600MG A DAY SO AS YOU CAN SEE DA WITHDRAW FROM IT CT WAS HORRENDOUS BUT I STILL MANAGE TO HANG IT THEIR... IT GETS SO MUCH BETTER EACH AND EVERYDAY YILE SO PLEASE DNT GIVE UP... STAY STRONG TRAMADOL WARRIORS BC DAR WAR IS NOT OVER!!!  EVERYBODY PLEASE PRAY FOR ME BC DIS FLU IS KICKING MY BUT AND I WILL DO THE SAME FOR YOU.. GOD BLESS YILE N DNT GIVE UP BC IM GETTING STRONGER EACH DAY..

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by ullr, Dec 16, 2011
How many of you have dental problems because of tramadol?
I just came back from the dentist... she extracted two teeth (roots) today, but its my fourth extraction.
The full prosedure with bridges etc will cost me about 6000$...

So I am spitting blood and waiting for the anesthesia to let go.

She gave me some pain killers as well - NOT TRAMADOL, I said. So here I am with codein/paracetamol.

I have been a mess the last weeks...Did never  cure completly from the pneumonia, and have been on syrup with mophine for two weeks.  
Had some small w/d from that, but what scares me most is that I got so much energy from the opiaths. Not energy maybe, but will to do things...

Wish you all a good weekend!

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by legaljunky, Dec 16, 2011
Good morning beautiful world!  I feel so great and I can hardly believe I finally got here!

Denise - You sound so much better!  I think you released your demons onto the net- fantastic!  Hope you find relief for your remaining pain.  A few years ago we were on the MS coast and it was so beautiful.  It is so sad that it has been destroyed.  I live close to the ocean in NJ and love to walk the beach in the off season.  Today is warmer than usual and I hope I'll get to the beach

Julius- 60 days- isn't it wonderful?  I had what I thought was a bad cold that held on forever around days 60-80.  I now think it was Tramaflu and it finally went away. I believe God is love and is the good in each of us and  together we are healing ourselves and each other.  We are so lucky to have found Emily and each other!

Haves- Congrats!  Got thru your exams successfully and 12 days Tram free at the same time!

Hugs to Damtram and Booba

Icandothis- You have stayed the course for so long, I hope you find something new and interesting to occupy your time in SC.  I am praying for you and know you can do this!

Yoyo-  I had restless leg syndrome, I wonder if you are having a variation of that.  I took 1 gram of Magnesium at dinner time.  It acts as a muscle relaxer and promotes sleep.  And I've said all this before and here it comes again- Melatonin had the opposite effect on me and kept me up all night. I've been  2mg Clonazapam every night for years and have no need to up the dose.

GA- I hope you are finding some answers and getting some relief.  Take care of yourself and hang on!

So many of you are suffering in Tramahell and I am praying for you.  I'm finally in a beautiful place and I'm waiting for you to join me.  Stay strong!  It is so worth the fight!

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by Icandothis10, Dec 16, 2011
Has anyone rec'd a private message from booba??  Anybody know how she's doing?  Little worried about her.   She has waged an all out war on her body by abruptly stopping her doses!  With the amount she was taking and then to just stop, I don't know how successful she'll be and she is trying to hide it from her family!

Booba???  

I'm starving....I went to Waffle House at daggom midnight last night!  If you want entertainment, go there at an ungodly hour!  Drunken travelers with mouths that would put Andrew Dice Clay to shame

I only took one pill this morning instead of 1.5.....I got up so late that it was so close to my noon dose that I figured I'd try it....so far, so good.

Booba?  I don't usually pray, but I'm praying for you right now.....message me if you need vent, scream or cuss me out!  Not trying to be the stalker, just worried about you

Love, Denise (the other Denise)

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by DamTram, Dec 16, 2011
I think this is booba's day 2 or 3...we should be hearing from her, soon.  When I was in her shoes last year, I could not post til day 5.  She also has a lot of responsibilities, so she is probably wiped out.  After your message, I'm sure she will pop in to say hi.  :)

Ullr, I'm so sorry for your issues continuing so long, like mine.  I remember you saying long ago that you spent many years on other drugs, too...if I remember correctly, those may have had damage potential,  as far as trams, I know I was just way worse about self care when I was on them.  So, enough years of that...I could see that leading to problems.

I am so sorry for your pain and suffering.  You did right by coming back here for support.  I really hope your docs out there can help get you back to a good place...you have always seemed one of the strongest to me (archer warrior, fighting with us from overseas), so I know you can do this.

I slept through the night, but woke up tired and tried to go for a brisk walk and only made it 20 minutes, came back and showered, ate, and passed out for 2 hours.  I just feel tired, burning freezing, and useless all day.  And then that panicky feeling sets in in the evenings, like there is a hand inside you squeezing your sternum.  Thank goodness it's around the time I cam take the klonopin.  GABA and valerian were not cutting it last night.

Haves, I don't know how you did it!!  I was put in trams this time after a colonoscopy at the beginning of November and DID convince myself I could not, therefore, finish the quarter and final papers and tests without it, and ended up on it over a month.  How did you manage??

Love and strength and peace to all, warriors.

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by booba77, Dec 16, 2011
I dont know why I haven't posted sooner. Oh yeah I do-this POS phone. I'm okay. I could kiss whoever told me about the gaba cuz I got brain zaps but they are minimal. Taking vitamins and magnesium, which really helps the rls. Will post more later. I feel pretty good. Didnt sleep, but are any of us? Thanks for caring about me. Might watch lampoons christmas tonite. My brothers fave-i miss him so, especially now :(. I love u guys.

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by haves, Dec 16, 2011
Dam Tram - not sure if u saw any other post of mine but this time on tram I was only on it 3 weeks the most I took was maybe 5 50mg aday . I was also taking meth too so the combo completely depleted my serontinon and dopamine. I cried for 3- 4 days at first . Then I just got busy . Exercise - music food . Each day I tried to do a little more than the day before. My grades were very high until u started using again. I 'm certainly not proud of my final grade 3 b and 2 c's but at one point I couldn't comprehend anything I read. The exercise and rocking out to music helped to increase my feel good in my brain. I still have some concentration issues and a nagging throbbing forehead but I'm on the up swing - I hope. The only thing that tram always made me brlieve I'd that I ciuldn't function without it. Don't believe the lie.

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by Icandothis10, Dec 16, 2011
What exactly IS GABA?  Because I have some to take with me overseas.....what does it help with?

AWESOME news booba!  Awesome news...you know what else helped me with RLS?  "Restful legs" by Hylands.  It actually worked and relaxed me

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 16, 2011
28 days of this nonsense....will be a full month on the 18th

Ican...I know all about the Waffle House,I live in the south LOL

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by DamTram, Dec 16, 2011
Wow, Haves.... You are a CHAMP!  I will never believe its lies again...I'd better not even ingest it again.  No more meth for you, right?  Congrats on being a survivor.

Booba, I'm so glad the GABA had helped!!! Icandothis - our GABA system gets effed from tramadol.  We have GABA receptors, and supposedly the supplement you have helps to fill them.  It is a neurotransmitter that we make ourselves, so I don't quite know how they make the supplement.  But it had helped me oodles.

Go, team, go!

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by denised1982, Dec 16, 2011
@legaljunky-- it is sad that the oil spill happened but the coast has really bounced back. The water has changed, just a little murkier, i believe, but the seafood doesn't seem to have oil in it and my fiance fishes every chance that he gets and there is no crude oil smell and the meat looks normal. I feel bad for Louisiana, they got really messed up. I think all they did was spray dispersants/ corexit spray all in the water so the oil would sink, the rest that is still washing up is globs of tar balls. It is worse past cat and ship island from what I am told. I don't really get on the boat too much because if I cant see where I'm swimming, I'm not friggin swimming, and I get motion sickness! This is where I grew up and I moved out of state a few times but I keep moving back here. It is so welcoming. Where else would you see the beach and mossy oak trees?

I am feeling so much better. I feel like my eyes are brighter and I have something to live for. I'm not hurting near as bad *knock on wood*, I am not so ''flat affect", my personality is coming through, and I feel, I dunno, nicer.

It has been a bumpy ride, but I needed to know just how bad the ride was going to be so I don't take that road again. I have done a lot of drugs in my past socially and habitually, but I was always felt "in control". I never thought I could be "had" until ultram. F*cking ultram! Oh, it's so safe! Its not as addictive as narcotics! Wrong! Dead Wrong!

@Haves---I felt I couldn't function without ultram either. I f*ckin believed it at first and I believed it for almost 3 years. It really "had me", I was ultram's b*tch. I can honestly say that when you first quit , you really can't function. Then eventually, the beautiful life you once knew comes through. It is almost like being born again.
I feel better that I'm not the only one who has partied her as* off. I have done all kinds of things with the exception of a lot of designer drugs(only one I tried was MDMA), PCP, heroin, and ketamine. Everything else I have done (I think.) I was a coke head for a long time, a good year or so.. Cant remember sh*t from that year.

All you guys are great.. I am lucky to have a great support system. I love y'all. This place really shows just how human we all are, and it is refreshing. It's funny how when you are struggling with addiction, or anything for that matter, you feel so alone in the world. You feel like you're the only one who is dealing with addiction, depression, suicidal ideation, whatever it could be. I feel that all of you really saved me, and I thank and hug every one of you.
Hugs,

<3 Denise




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by denised1982, Dec 16, 2011
Oh my gosh.. it's been 2 weeks! YAHOOO!!!!! I never thought I could do it!!! Thanks guys!!!

xoxoxoxo
Denise

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by denised1982, Dec 16, 2011
@Icandothis and @turkeytrotter!!! YES! WAFFLE HOUSE LOL!!!!! That was funny. Either it's full of drunks or toothless waitresses. I have this ongoing joke: If I find out one of my friends has ever worked there I always say, "But, honey, you have all your teeth, you're actually pretty, WTF are you doing working at Waffle House????"

I know, I mean. Can't help it.

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by DamTram, Dec 16, 2011
Denise, you're at 2 weeks??  Here I thought you were way far out!  You give me hope of feeling a lot better, sooner!  Thank you for posting how good you feel...it helps me get through these days....

Day 7...almost complete!

Not looking forward to the nightly sternum squeeze...but my momma bought me some more valerian to help, this time.  :)

I don't know how I did this last time, in chicago's bitter January.  I didn't leave the house at all, it was so cold.  I am so grateful to be in LA where the sun lets me walk and helps with sleep at night.  My greatest empathies for those doing CT in harsh climates.

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 16, 2011
Denise, you're right, mean but funny lol

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by Icandothis10, Dec 16, 2011
DamTram - I HATE the heat...but have been all over the world in all kinds of climates.  I really feel for anyone doing CT. I just know that even though it's temporary, I couldn't do it.....I just couldn't.  Bless everyone who is taking that extreme plunge



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by Sarabie, Dec 16, 2011
Hehe I did CT in september in Scandinavia. But I could might as well have been on a Caribbean isle or the northpole. Didn't matter cause I couldn't leave the house for at least a week.

Well I had a tooth pulled out at the dentist a couple of month ago. You Think I could get a job in a waffle house? Or must it be one of the front teeth if I wanna make manager or so? ;-)



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by denised1982, Dec 17, 2011
Sarabie--- hahaha.. you just disqualified yourself as a candidate. See, down here, you have to appear that you have never touched a toothbrush in your life. If you go to the dentist, that means that you took the necessary steps to take care of yourself, not just let your teeth rot out of your head. Not everyone who works in WH has jacked up teeth and not everyone who has jacked up teeth work at WH. I know for a fact that I was not the only one who has ever said that statement either. I guess they don't have a dental plan?? :) Lol... I'm sorry. Even if I look like a complete @ss, I'm the type of person who is going to say it. I was trying to joke around, not hurt anyone's feelings. I'm no where near being perfect, maybe I need a job at the Waffle House? Hahaha.

I am just happy I made it through CT. I know I went through the worst part. Now I hate ultram, and I am so p*ssed off at letting myself getting to the point of addiction. I think you have to dig deep and find all the reasons why you need to or want to quit and get angry and wage an all out war on ultram in order to quit. It definitely is a battle, and there is never a good time to quit. I have to take care of 20 elderly people 5 nights a week by myself and I couldn't take off, plus I had a sick kid to take off during withdrawals. I dug deep and found the reasons why I wanted to quit. I owed it to myself, I owed it to my family, i owed it to my  fiance and his son, I owed it to my friends, I owed it to my residents, everything. I used to go around all messed up all the time from ultram. I needed to gain my life back, my life without ultram. I don't ever want to see another ultram again in my life after all the hell I've been through. I will definitely be telling the doctor that I am allergic to ultram!



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by denised1982, Dec 17, 2011
DamTram--I have my moments, but now I feel like I have the upper hand. The first 4 or 5 days were the worst for me, pain wise and emotionally. I am on a couple of antidepressants, trazadone and celexa. It has helped with sleep and brain zaps and depression. I took immodium and zantac to address any GI issues. So far detoxing really isn't bad. Yes, I had to wuss out and go the easy way, but I had underlying depression in the first place and I totally depleted all my serotonin after taking ultram round the clock for over 2 years. I try to keep my days busy, because when I get bored I get down and out.
<3 Denise

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by DamTram, Dec 17, 2011
I wouldn't call it an easy out, Denise - people with depressive disorders should be on ad's until they are ready to taper. Just not pain meds with fake MDMA in them that act like ad's!

It's so early here...but I think I slept a total of 10 hours?  Just a lingering headache, now.  

I found 2 trams while cleaning last night.  I freaked out and ran to the bathroom and flushed them down the toilet.  Within sight of them, I could already hear my brain saying, "It's just 2..." So, yea.  Gross!

How's our Booba hanging in there??

Day 8.  Phew.

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by Sarabie, Dec 17, 2011
Damtram - I also found stashes around the house. Once I found almost 50 pills. did the same as you though. Flushed them instantly. I think what scared me the most was the fact that I had been hiding secret stashes. So far out. Especially cause I forgot all about it afterwards. But that's just a typical trambrain...

Booba - I know how annoying it is to post something with a smartphone. My iPhone constantly makes autocorrects and going through CT no one have the patience to deal with that.

Denise - hehe guess I should drop those carrier plans then :-D

So it's Saturday night here now. We are watching old Christmas movies, eating Christmas treats and enjoying life. Life without Tram is just wonderfull :-D

I hope life is treating y'all well and that the battle against tram aren't too harsh. On Saturday it's 100 days without for me. Time really flies. Seems like just a couple of weeks ago I decided to stop.

Love, Susie

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by booba77, Dec 17, 2011
I'm doing better than expected on day 3.  I really do feel the wellbutrin and gaba are helping so much, as I've had no zaps today and only feel really down in the morning.  I can't believe I went shopping on day 3.  That is so crazy.  My parents wanted me to go with them so bad, and it was only the 3 of us, and I couldn't let them down.  Okay, now on to the most pressing and important questions: How long is this insomnia and RLS crap going to continue?  I am doing everything I can-I got the hylands, got the magnesium, the epsom salts, and I just thrash and claw at the sheets and try sleeping on the floor-anything-any act of desperation to sleep.  Finally at 3:30 am I said ef this-and took 1/4 of a clonazepam mom gave me a while back.  I slept until around 7:30 am, and boy was I the looopiest shopper for awhile.  i hate benzos.  We don't react well together, but I was desperate.  Any other suggestions for the RLS?  Do I need to take a boatload of hylands?  It is the most terrible feeling to just want to sleep but you can't.  I really do feel that this time around, with the AD, and the support of you lovely angels, that i may be able to dig  myself up from the hell tramadol has caused in my life.  I'm going to try to nap now, if this darn kitten of my daughter's will let me.  What was I thinking?  A kitten for Christmas?  I must have been nuts!!!  I'm blaming it on the trams!!  I love you guys....ttyl

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 17, 2011
I'm done...soooo done! I emailed my doc about the weird freezing and sweating thing still going on...no word yet. I am beginning to think something internally is not working right. Last night was just weird, I had one freaky vivid dream after the other...have not had any of that since the withdrawal first started...

Tomorrow it'll be a month....

My hip hurts, not sure if that is original pain or from no tram....I hope the next 30 days goes better than this.

DamTram, good for you for flushing those things...I really believe this stuff is the route to all evil.

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by Sarabie, Dec 17, 2011
Booba - the rls was definately worst during the first week of CT for me. It helped me to play some Nintendo Wii or PlayStation move when the legs just wouldn't relax. I'm so happy to hear you are doing fine. Amazing you went shopping. I'm really impressed :-D you are doing a great job. Keep it up :-D

Turkey - good idea about mailing your doc. I hope he can explain why you still sweat. About the dreams - the first 4-6 weeks I was off Tram I had the weirdest dreams. Well I guess All dreams are weird but we all know how ct dreams are. I still have them once in awhile.

Btw I also blame everything on tram and trambrain. It's the Best scapegoat :-D

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by legaljunky, Dec 17, 2011
Hi Turkeytrotter- I had the freezing and sweats and the weird vivid dreams and talked in my sleep, woke myself up, thought for a minute till I realized it wasn't really happening and went back to sleep!  So bizarre!
I flew to FL to be with my grand children for a few days and my grandson wanted to sleep in the king size bed with me and my daughter said it was OK.  The next morning Jake said I woke him up several times because I was snoring (I had Tramaflu) and talking in my sleep but each time he kicked me and I stopped!  Then we slept in the big bed the next night and when I woke up in the morning he was gone.  I got up and asked my son-in-law if he knew what had happened. Jake told him I was talking louder, almost yelling and when he kicked me I still kept talking so he had to go back to his own bed!

I'm very lucky, I didn't have pain till just lately-  I'm sitting at the bench making jewelry for hours at a time and my back bothers me.  I hope you get some relief!

Love, strength, perseverance to all my Tram fighting buddies!

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 18, 2011
Finally...the day is here....

Legal that sounds scary! Not sure if I talk in my sleep...no one has told me so anyway :)


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by DamTram, Dec 18, 2011
Booba - you sound great!  I'm so relieved.  Yo, GABA GABA, I like to say.  :)

Getting a kitten seemed like a good idea to you on trams, and getting a boyfriend (who knew I was going to be going through withdrawal) seemed like a good idea to me on trams.  It turns out that despite him being extremely attractive to the general populace...he is not to me/tram recovery me does not want the respinsibilty of building a relationship.  Stupid, stupid trams!  Hopefully the kitten can stay...but trams and I will be responsible for this nice guy's sadness.  I hate you, stupid trams!  

I found another rogue pill, started to freak out, then decided that I was not going to let the pill interrupt what I was doing.  I finished the stretching I was doing, then I threw it in the toilet.  I didn't even feel it deserved its own water for a flush, so waited til I had to go, p***ed on it, then flushed it.  I'm the boss, now!

Booba - I'm almost done with this insomnia book, and I really am getting some of the best sleep of my life...and it started around day 5.  So, sleep will eventually come.  And there are a lot of things you can implement to make sure it will always come.  It's called, "Say Goodnight to Insomnia".  But like others have said...at least 30 minutes of day if moderate exercise in sunlight will make a huge diff, ESP for rls.  I take ~4 hyland's restful legs and also 4 Hyland's leg cramps PM with quinine (which can also be found in tonic water).  With the exercise and those, I've barely had any rls.

Happy Sunday, Survivors!!

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by denised1982, Dec 18, 2011
DamTram-- That is classic. I'm glad you not only flushed your trams, but took a dump on them before you did it. That is hardcore... lol

That is amazing
<3 Denise

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by fightorfight, Dec 18, 2011
Evening guys and gals,

Been a while since I've posted.   Works had me running around quite a bit, and that on top of the holidays and school have tapped me out pretty fierce.   Hopefully this next week is going to be a bit easier, a little breather would be nice.  

Booba-   I'm glad you're doing well thus far.   Keep up the good work :).

Hope everyone else is doing well and taking care of themselves to the best of their ability.   I'll post a bit later when I don't have the family holiday craziness that seems to take over whenever everyone comes back for the holidays.    



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by booba77, Dec 19, 2011
Amen to the holiday craziness. Now most of my time is spent helping my parents research my brothers whereabouts. Oh, and not sleeping. Feel damn good allin all. Back to work in 5 hours, blech!

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by legaljunky, Dec 19, 2011
I have the best Christmas present- 101 days Clean!  And on day 94, after 90 day PAWS I finally felt the real me had returned. Last night we went to our first Christmas party where I knew very few people and I was worried about whether I could manage it. I did fine.  I don't drink alcohol any way and I have vowed to myself and all of you, my Tram fighting cohorts that I will eat 0 sugar till after the last party when I will have a sugar binge.  Sugar makes me very tired and confused (food fog) and I can't afford that with all I have to do till Christmas.  After a party when I eat all the desserts I always wake up the next morning with a sugar hangover. Not today!!  I feel so good!

Icandothis, Gizmok, Turkeytrotter, Damtram, Booba and all of the Tramadevil fighters who still have hurdles ahead, I send love and prayers, you all helped get me off Tramadol and I don't know where I'd be without you!

Stay strong is the key- I'm now using it against Tramadevil and Sugarfog!

Love you all,
Lorraine



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by turkeytrotter, Dec 19, 2011
THANK YOU GOD! I think the ridicules sweating is finally letting up....yesterday it was very mild...today haven;t hardly had any. I ran earlier and did not come back drenched after like I had been doing.

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 19, 2011
Legal - congratulations, keep up the good work!

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by denised1982, Dec 19, 2011
Legal, Turkeytrotter... you're doing great! yayyyy!!!!!

My stomach is bothering me today and I look swollen. My ring wont fit or anything. Wondering if it's the trazodone or whatever else I am taking. I feel like my eyes are swollen when I first wake up. I think I am just going to stop taking it. It makes me feel like a zombie. Oh, I also threw up shortly after I took it, my stomach's been bothering me since. Anybody else have that problem?

I have to update my ticker. I am so happy. Yayyy!!!

Everyone else is putting up a mean fight! Keep it up!

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by Wtrguy87, Dec 19, 2011
I found these message boards last night when I was searching for a place for some support and information regarding Tramadol and opiate withdrawl. My name is Daniel and I have been in chronic pain since October 2010 due to a bulged L5-S1 disk that I was rewarded with for falling down stairs at my house. Initially I was prescribed Norco, Soma and Tramadol to manage until the pain subsided. Eventually throughout the past 14 months I've had an MRI, tons of physical therapy, injections and LOTS of pills.

I began lying to myself into the first few months of the issue and was convinced I needed a lot more pain medication than I now know I actually needed. Like many others I made the huge mistake of using Tramadol (8-10 50mg tabs a day) to withdrawl from 10/325 percocet. Wow, do I wish I never did this. I ended up going through my most recent prescription way too soon and said to myself, "what the hell, let's be done with both..." This was last Friday. Come Saturday I started feeling pretty sick but was thinking it was a flu. Then come Sunday I was hit like a freight train at work. Terrible anxiety, cramping in legs, forearms and stomach. Along with intensified back pain, depression, and bad mood swings that had set in pretty strong by Sunday evening. I had to call in to work today using back pain as the excuse and have been pretty miserable obviously. The worst for me is the depression, stomach cramping and the complete energy zap.

This message board has been a godsend to myself. I can't wait to be drug free and feeling good again. Not constantly counting pills and having to figure out what lie I would tell my family and friends. One of the main ones was to talk about a co-worker that is a complete oxy/hydroco addict... This was a powerful way for me to show them how I wasn't that bad and that he was the one out of control. Anyways hope you guys don't mind me sharing. Feels good to get this off my chest. It has been a extremely heavy weight for a long time.

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by legaljunky, Dec 19, 2011
Welcome ,Daniel-
You have come t the right place!  My Dr put me on Tramadevil saying it was the least addictive of the pain killers.  When she switched me on to something else and off Tram I realized I was addicted, I was so horribly sick, just like you.  I also realized she would be no help so I got on the net and found this life saving group of people I have come to love.  I read thru pages and pages of posts and decided to go back on Tram and do a slow taper using all the remedies for WD I had read about on the forum.  It was very tough but I was determined, just like all of my heroes here who beat Tramadevil before me.
At this point I am very excited.  I'm done with all the hell!
Come, join us and post often, it helped me to not feel alone and to get my awful feelings out of me and onto the net.

For my stomach I drank peppermint tea with cayenne and honey in it.
For energy- 0 sugar and around 1.5 grams sublingual B12 throughout the day. (Sugar also contributes to depression and
causes inflamation on the cellular level)
A lot of magnesium helps with restless leg syndrome and aids sleep because it is a muscle relaxer.

You'll see lots more expertise and remedies from other Tram fighters, the info here is solid!

Daniel and all my Tram fighting buddies- I'm sending strength, perseverance and love!




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by denised1982, Dec 19, 2011
wtrguy87--- Welcome! The first 7-14 days are rough. The first 3-5 days are the worst with the intensified pain. Take it easy on yourself. I know how it feels to have that weight on your chest, and being in denial.
You will learn a lot of things on this forum. It is a good tool to have and it really does help. '



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by Wtrguy87, Dec 19, 2011
One thing I did mean to ask but completely forgot during my previous post. --Besides taking some 5/500 Vic when it get unbearable, is there another way to even half-way deal with these severe stomach cramps?

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by booba77, Dec 20, 2011
Immodium is great on the tummy receptors. It should help some.

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by Sarabie, Dec 20, 2011
wtrguy87 - welcome :-) You are doing great already. It's a tough ride, but soon you'll notice that life is returning and you'll be able to laugh, feel and think again. It's worth all the struggle. I went CT after a 5 year addiction where I peeked at popping 24 trams a day. Like you I just had enough. No more counting pills, lying etc. And trust me, it's fantastic not having to deal with that stuff anymore.

I'm quite happy and looking forward to Christmas. Only 4 days to go (in Denmark we celebrate Christmas on the 24th - after dinner we dance around the tree and sing christmas carols and after that we get our presents). I made 3 different kinds of Christmas cookies yesterday and today I'll make chocolate/marzipan treats. Life is good again.

Booba - how you doing? (not said in a Joey way hehe)

Stay cool folks :-D

Love, Susie



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by DamTram, Dec 20, 2011
Welcome, wtrguy!  You really have found the right place.

Immodium (taken in double doses) can really calm your tummy down.  As someone above said, the intestines are filled with opioid receptors...so they go crazy.

Be kind to yourself during this time.  You will begin to notice and feel yourself, again, for the first time in a long time.  As you may have read from Emily's earliest posts, your pain may actually get better as you start to recover.  

This is a helluva drug.

After getting dumped, yesterday, by my only friend in LA and my best friend of 15 years...I am trying to get through some psychological trauma.  Today I get an ultrasound on the lump in my breast, and tomorrow is my birthday.  Thank goodness my mother lives here, because a birthday with no friends at all is a very scary thing.  As a result, though, I am ashamed to admit that I took a few Soma yesterday evening just because I couldn't block all of the painful words that had been sprayed at me, yesterday.  I feel like a failure, turning to drugs for escape.  But I swear, it was one of the worst days of my life...and isn't that why people get drunk or stoned, from time to time?  I don't have the bottle of Soma, so it won't become a pattern.  But I still feel sad for what I did.  

In any case, they fixed my comp for free...and now I can see my ticker!

Fight on, warriors.



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by booba77, Dec 20, 2011
Dam Tram-First of all let me say how sorry I am about everything going on with you.  That is terrible.  Please keep us posted on your lump and I will definately be praying for you.  Don't feel bad about the soma.  No one here can say they wouldn't have done the same thing after all of that.  It just seems to be the worst year for a lot of us.  I keep praying and hope God is listening and that eventually it will get better.

Who was the one with the terrible sweating-was it you Turkeytrotter?  Well I am right there with you buddy.  I still get the chills and sweats.  I was almost in a good mood on the way to work today, but about lunchtime I just got brain foggy and totally exhausted and a bit emotional.  I am struggling here at work, and the morale here is in the crapper.  Hoping Christmas will be quiet and uneventful, unless the event is that they find my missing brother!  Got a ton of psychics working on it, tons of clues, but no location.  I'm holding out for this one that is supposed to give me an analysis on the 23rd.  How come all of the extremely intelligent people on Earth are so quirky?  My brother is that way too.  Very smart!  I am pretty good at Rock Band-that is my redeeming quality....lol.  Have a good day folks.  Hope to post more later.

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by turkeytrotter, Dec 20, 2011
Booba, yeah that was me! I didn't believe it when I was being told it but it will stop, hang in there!

DamTram, hope the breast Ultrasound comes back harmless, praying!

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by GA_need_help, Dec 20, 2011
Sasha,
I am doing a taper from another Opiate, but I have been so warmly welcomed to post here.  Its interesting to see someone thinking just as I do, in halfs of pills-- and in planning (for you it's going CT, for me it's tapering).  I just want to encourage you, and say I care.  My sister just got to town, and I am getting ready to go to the mall with her (and my niece).  I just wanted to say hi.  And, I am here if you ever need to talk.  I know we can do this!

Hi All My Friends--I am doing alright here in GA; still getting ready for Christmas with lots of activities with my little girl.  I pray to reach my tapering goal (a landmark) by Christmas.  And to go into 201 so much stronger than before!  I will still be tapering in 2012, but this is definitely my path!

Marie

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by denised1982, Dec 20, 2011
DamTram-- Prayers for you. I am sorry for your loss. It is an emotional time in and of itself doing a ct from ultram. I hope that your ultrasound comes back normal. It will be okay in due time. Keep positive if you can. You will overcome all of this.

Sasha, Marie, Booba-- it's so hard when youre an addict. I am the poster child of self loathing, and I don't take care of myself the way that I should. I have to stay focused at work too and morale at work has been in the sewage plant for quite sometime. I am not in the position to be burned out the way that i am, but nonetheless, I am. I hate these feelings of depression, being tired, not being able to sleep, working all night, feeling ran down all the time, being out of shape, not eating right, and yet I still want to get my drug fix because I will feel better again. My normal feeling is other peoples depression. Im getting so sick of it. I know that drugs aren't the way, but at the same time, I just want to feel like everyone else does.  

I'm still not taking any tramadol, but I wish I could get out of my funk. I am on antidepressants, but I am also having crazy side effects. I feel like I did before taking tramadol. I almost feel hopeless. It's really sad. I am a good person and I do try to help everyone I see. I don't know why I won't help myself. I keep asking why do I do this to myself, do I hate myself that much? do I deserve this? because I feel half dead. I am hanging in there, but one foot is on a banana peel.


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by DamTram, Dec 20, 2011
Deniiiiiiiiiiiise, I want to send you the insomnia book so badly!!  There's even an Appendix for shift workers!  But most of it ends up being about why we beat ourselves up inside, how to stop, and how to feel like all of those normal people who seem to feel fine.  You ARE a good person, and you HAVE helped yourself!  It's okay to have your foot on a banana peel, just stop - pick up your foot - and put it somewhere else.  According to Mr. Insomnia Book, we have Negative Automatic Thoughts (NATs) that have to be replaced with Positive Automatic Thoughts (PATs).  You believing that your normal is other peoples' depressed is an NAT, and it's NOT TRUE.  You and I are in a zone (I'm just finishing day 11) where we are left with ourselves, and it's a scary time.  I wrote TurkeyTrotter a long essay, earlier, about how I'm learning to accept that who I am is ok.  

But you have to get some sleep.  Please, please message me your address so I can send you a copy!  I know you probably feel like you don't have time or energy to read, but when the insomnia hits..it makes sense to read the insomnia book.  I have been a terrible sleeper my entire life.  4 days into this book, I've only been waking up once per night.  So, please send me your address!  When I went CT this last January, rainallday was going through it, too.  When we were done, we both quit smoking.  I read a book that makes you never want to smoke again, and he let me send him a copy.  So, depression and anxiety either exist or are being made way worse because of the sleep issues.  Lemme help!

The ultrasound was clear!  I was born Jewish, but other than small points in my life...I've mostly been culturally observant.  As tonight is the first night of Hanukkah, I broke out the menorah, lit the candles, and had my mom say the prayer over the phone with me.  Your prayers worked!  Thank you, all of you, who put me in your prayers.  Especially after the day I had yesterday, I was ready for the worst.

Sasha - I knew your name looked familiar!  I CT'd in January, like I said..and relapsed because of a colonoscopy that coincided with dysmenorrhea and convinced myself (or tram convinced me) that I couldn't finish the quarter without it.  Your taper sounds really brutal!  Is there a reason that you have to take 5 at a time?  It's like you're withdrawing twice a day, every day!  Can you spread them out, at all?  And then start to cut certain doses in half?  The insomnia book that I keep blabbing about has a fantastic taper plan, but it would take awhile.  Lemme know if you're interesting in having me lay it out.

Thank you, Susie, Booba, Turkey, Denise, and Marie, for helping me through this time.

Tomorrow is my birthday.  It is day 12.  I somehow have to look pretty for high tea with my momma in Beverly Hills, and then am going bowling with my brother's caretaker (who felt sorry for me that I had no friends on my birthday).  I have a feeling a lot of B-12 shall be had!

Restful sleeps to those over here and hugs of strength to those over there!

<3 <3 <3

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by Sarabie, Dec 21, 2011
I'm so happy :-) my postman just delivered a package to me from legaljunkie :-D so this year I'll have American Christmas cookies too :-D

Damtram I'm so glad your ultrasound came clean. You are in my thoughts!!!

Love Susie

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 21, 2011
I am a bit surprised anyone has physical issues after two weeks.  I CT'ed from 12-15 a day and the longest physical W/D was the insomnia, it took about 10 days.  However, I have had sleep issues my whole life, but I also dont do the whole sleep hygiene routine (google it).  I did have stomach issues for ahwile, not nausea, but it took a long time before my bowel movements were normal.

I was put on adderall about 9 months ago.  However, when I would take it before the tram issues I always found it impossible to eat and actually kinda felt like crap on it towards the end of the day.  It was impossible to eat though, and since I have always been a gym nut, you always want to be able to eat every 5 hours or so.

I noticed that if I took tram or kratom with it that it didnt affect my appetite so much.  In all honesty, that was one of the reasons I couldnt seem to get off tram or kratom.  

I have taken my adderall in the morning with tramadol ever since.  I took it alone for about a week straight but I felt like I lost 10lbs of muscle by the end of the week.

However, I am trying to stop taking tram in the morning.  The initial waking up is the most depressing part of the day for me.  So I am trying to avoid taking my taper dosage until an hour after I am up.  I noticed today that my appetite was normal on adderall but not on the tram...

Does anyone else take a ADHD stimulant?  If so, in time does your stomach get used to it and you cant eat normally?  I know most people love the fact that drugs like that make you lose weight, however its about the worst possible way to do it.  It was nice knowing I could stay on the ADHD med without any opiate.  I always figured I would have to quit both once I tapered off tram completely.

The ADHD meds seem to work better without the tram as well.

Does anyone else experience the tram hangovers where you are so super tired every morning?  I have never been like this, but its nearly impossible to get out of bed.  I hate it.  I could literally sleep a whole day away.

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by 4leefclover, Dec 21, 2011
What was the name of the insomnia book and the quitting nicotine book?
I am going to do both tram and nicotine withdrawal over these next few weeks
That is my goal...i know it is a lot but why not? I feel just as bad about the
Nicotine as i do about the tram and when i quit tram before i still had my "blankey"
Nicorette........going like a train, downhill, no brakes



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by booba77, Dec 21, 2011
I posted this morning from my nonsmartphone, but as usual, it didn't take!  

Damtram-Happy Birthday!!!  I am so happy the ultrasound was negative.  I got teary eyed when I saw your post.  

It is day 6 for me.  Tomorrow will be a week.  I'm still taking the immodium, and my apetite is ravenous.  I felt pretty good emotionally until yesterday, which was just a really bad day for me-here at work, stuff with my brother, this damned smelly kitten (smelly cat, smelly cat, what are they feeding you?  Does anyone else remember that?), my grumpy fiancee, etc.  Sometimes it is all too much.  I just cranked up the Peter, Paul and Mary last night and drove home crying all the way.  It felt good to get it out.  I am just so tired.  THe insomnia, the rls.  The RLS is much better though.  And Yo GABA GABA is that stuff awesome.  It really helps with the zaps.  But the question is, how long do I take it?  I was hoping to get through one bottle and be okay and not need it anymore.  I'm on the wellbutrin, 3 a day, so that is 150 MG, but I have been very down so I was thinking of going to 4 a day, or 200 mg.  Advice?  

I can't believe it is 4 days until Christmas.  I haven't baked anything yet, but my specialty is pies, and I haven't wrapped much either.  The kitten was my daughter's big gift.  $95 at the SPCA plus all the toys, bed, play castle, food, litter, and that little kitty is pretty expensive.  She is sweet though, but it is hard to watch my poor 14 year old mean kitty (my soul mate) adjust.  He just isn't happy with kitty at all, but he hasn't killed it yet, which shocks me, because he is truly the meanest cat on Earth.  I love him though-mean or not.

So how is everyone?  Someone tell me I won't feel so sad soon!   I can't wait for the insomnia to subside.  My poor eyes are all black and puffy.  

Hang in there folks!  I am proud to be off of this damned stuff for the umpteenth time.  I just have to make sure this time it sticks.  No relapsing!

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by DamTram, Dec 21, 2011
Sasha - The insomnia book is called, "Say Goodnight to Insomnia" by Dr. Gregg Jacbos, from Harvard.  The quitting smoking book is called, "The EasyWay to Quit Smoking" by Alan Carr.  

Read the insomnia book BEFORE you ready the quitting smoking book.  If you don't figure out how to sleep through the night before you figure out how to be a non-smoker, you are more likely to get down on yourself for being able to do neither.  One at a time.  

When I relapsed on Tram, I relapsed on cigarettes.  Apparently, they go hand-in-hand for me.  I'm also going to have to re-read the book again, but thank GOODNESS for being able to sleep through the night!  Never in a million years did I think I'd be able to do it..with OR without Tram!  Good job, Harvard.

Booba - I don't plan on getting another bottle.  Once you're feeling normal, try not taking it one day and see what happens.  If you are supplementing with regular vitamins, magnesium, exercise, and sunlight...you should be fine once your body has gotten through the thick of it all.  And like FightorFight said - who knows if it's even doing anything. =)  The point is, we feel like it is!

BeenHereBefore - I remember you!  Yes, mornings are awful on or off tram...but particularly depressing and sad while on tram.  I have not been on any ADHD medication, but I've worked with a lot of children who have.  If it is doing what it is to your appetite, that would generally indicate that your Adderall dose is too high.  Have you talked to your doc about lowering it?  Your body should've gotten used to it, after a temporary period of what you're describing.  It sounds like you're taking a little too much shock to your dopaminergic system.  Definitely talk to your doctor about all this.

Thank you for the birthday wishes; you guys are amazing.  

Happy Solstice!

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by legaljunky, Dec 21, 2011
DamTram- Happy Birthday!  Your ultrasound results must feel like the best present in the world! Along with being Tram free!

Booba I hope you get an extraordinary gift soon too!

4leefclover- Call your local police. Ours have 4 days a year when you can deliver pills to them anonymously, no questions asked, and they incinerate them.  Thar's what I did.

Everybodies holidays are coming now.  We celebrate Christmas although I think my beliefs would be closer to Animism or Pagan.  I feel the love and support that inhabits this forum is evidence of a higher power and God is the good in each of us that we are all helping each other find and build on.  I love dogs and am aware that God is dog spelled backwards. A dog has come into my life whenever I needed 1, not by choice, but when family members had to find a new home for theirs and we were the likely recipients. And then either my husband or I got sick or we went thru some kind of awful and it was so comforting to be with a dog.  Boy am I off track!

So now I want to complain-  I thought by now I would be done with ALL the Tramadevil stuff.  But yesterday and today I am soooo tired.  I'm taking all my vitamins, supplements and drugs, eating 0 sugar, so what's going on?  Maybe this is normal for this far out, I just don't want it to be.  And I'm feeling very selfish, knowing that so many of you are stuck in the thick of it- fighting Tramadevil.

Oh yeah- strength, love, perseverance,   one   day   at   a   time  ......... for all of us!



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by tramsick, Dec 21, 2011
Hi everyone, haven't posted in a LONG time.  It's good to see so many of you supporting one another.  I wish all of you success as it can be a long road with the tramabeast.

Reading through your posts and Denise, I echo your feeling about being on an antidepressant.  Aren't the side effects F*** awful?  Sometimes I feel as you do, like I felt when I got off tram.  I wonder too what we'll go through when we get off the stuff.  I've been taking Lexapro for about a month and last night had the worst dizzy spell much like my post tram days.  I'm weaning off clonazepam for anxiety, so I think it's a reaction to that.  I've been assured by docs it can't be a side effect of Lexapro, but who knows.  The weaning of the clon. is so hard because I HAVE to function.  The clonazepam erases the dizziness and anxiety, but I can't keep relying on it, can be addictive.  I have a 2 yr old to take care of, and I'm disabled with the anxiety and dizziness.  He's incredible, my baby, I just love him so much.  I'd do anything for him, so I'll keep trying to make things better.

Hoping things get better for all of you.  Don't give up, keep fighting!

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by DamTram, Dec 21, 2011
Tramsick - Congrats on so many days!  I'm trying to taper Clonazepam, too.  How are you doing it?  I'm trying to stabilize at 1mg right now, but I totally get dizzy, too.  But not to the point of disabling.   Except for when I took it with Soma.  Then I was definitely disabled!  How much are you on?

Legal - Thank you!!  Being tram AND cancer-free makes for a fantastic birthdays, especially since I celebrated it with my mom who survived cancer this last February (after my first CT).  I'm sorry that you're having an energy zap.  =(  How have you been sleeping?  Have you been getting enough sunlight and exercise?  Our bodies do need SOME sugars - have you tried honey?  I hope you start feeling better soon, and thank you for coming to visit us in the trenches.  =)

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by legaljunky, Dec 21, 2011
Thanks DamTram
I never thought about not having enough sugars- what a concept!!  I will make a batch of my own granola that has honey in it tonight.  And I  have been eating some fruit. I know I need more sun- thanks for reminding me.

All of my problems have come one way or another from chronic Lyme disease.  For the sleep problems of Lyme I have taken 2mg Clonazepam every night for years.  I sleep about 8 1/2 hours a night so I'm getting enough sleep. Even when I started my Tram taper I was ably to sleep some.  I would say I get a little dizzy once in a while but not enough to make want to stop taking it.  I guess I'm just lucky?

Happy Solstice to you too.  My son has friends who would be saying that to me.  I like that concept too.

Better days are coming!  Lets wait it out together!

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by honorbounddane, Dec 21, 2011
hello all my old friends and new ones,
its been awhile since i wrote, im still here, still sober, and loving it. yeah, sometimes i dont sleep very well, and sometimes i get in a bad mood like im worthless or just dont care, but it passes real fast and im good again. i really know that getting off the tramadol and norcos was the best idea i could do. i can go out to so many places now and not worry if im gonna be able to get pills, i can enjoy, actually enjoy other peoples company without getting angry or avoiding them when i run out, and my outlook on life is sooo much better. i know that if i kept it up that i wouldnt be able to function at my externship as a medical assistant. i see so many people come into the doctors office that are going thru withdrawal and i feel bad for them. cause for most of them, it isnt their fault they are the way they are, its the doctors, but then you have some that know what they are doing and dont care, like the doctors themselves who are junkies. the first week sucked, i couldnt even drive cause my vision was sooo blurred, but i took lyrica (pregablin) which helped keep most of the withdrawal at bay, klons for the anxiety, zopidem for the sleep and estroven for the sweating. it worked for me, and i know that those things helped cause ive withdrawed before and thought i was gonna die. time does suck for the first couple of weeks, but then it does get better. i was up to 22-30 50mg trams and 10-15 norcos a day, and it was the quick fix for my back, (last 3 vertebrae are toast) but you know what? the pills were actually making the pain worse, i go days without feeling any pain now, even when im doing a venipuncture on a paitent and i have to bend over the table to get the blood out cause i have to pull out 8 tubes, when i stand, its sore but at least im not dropping to the ground. Now time is my friend, i love the time i have and see the greatness in life and myself, trust me folks, there is no quick fix to getting over this, it just takes time. and thats all you have. time.
i wish everyone a merry xmas and happy new year.
ps, i dont know why but i put in the day i quit and the ticker isnt right, im on day88 right now. and ive been off the other pills, zolpidem, lyrica and klons for a month and a half.

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by honorbounddane, Dec 21, 2011
why doesnt my ticker show up? weird.

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by honorbounddane, Dec 21, 2011
hahah nevermind

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by Gizmok, Dec 22, 2011
Hi guys, sorry I have not posted in a while. I have been going through a pretty hard time. The pain is so bad, that my dr put me back on the narcotics as I told you guys, and he put me on 20mg Prozac. I have been faithfully taking everything as I should but I can't shake this depression. I caught myself writing out a list of pro's and con's as to why I should commit suicide. I was so scared. I have been crying non-stop for days, I feel like I'm a whacko. :( so today the dr put me on lyrica as well. Well, I just read that it is a major weight gainer drug and has horrible withdraw when you atop taking them. I was always a very thin person 5'7" and 105lbs up to 115 at my heaviest. When the dr put me on all the opiates 4years ago after I had my hysterectomy, I started gaining weight like a crazy person. I was 220 at my heaviest last year. When I decided to go off the meds I also decided to try to start loosing the weight, this is not an easy thing for someone who has had a full hysterectomy and chosen to forgo the hormone therapy. Breast cancer runs in my family and I have the gene. Well since I got off the meds I am down to 175, and fighting desperately to keep going, now I am given this "miracle" drug and I find out that there are reports of people gaining like 20lbs in two weeks. No way, I'm not sure I'm willing to go there, and if the withdraw from it is anything like tramahell I truly don't want to go there. I'm sorry I'm rambling, I guess I'm looking for advice, does anyone have any experience with lyrica?  This depression is just crushing me and I don't know where it is coming from, but I would like to handle it without lyrica I think.
I am reading all your posts and laughing and crying with you. Thank you for posting here EVERYONE I don't think I could get through a day without coming here and finding out what is going on in my "friends" lives.  I empathize, booba, I don't know how you do it girl. Your a wonder woman to me. TT you are such a wonderful example, I love reading your posts, icandothis- you are my superwoma!!!!! I am in awe of each and every person on here you are all examples. Dam tram, I am so happy to see you back. So happy. Legaljunky, thank you for being my friend and reaching out to me. I'm sorry I have not taken advantage of it as I should, but I am going to try to get better about that. Denise, thank you for being so wonderful to everyone. I know that I am leaving a ton of "names" out, but really I think you all are great. I thank you for posting here, I thank you for being so real.
Keep up the good fight guys, and throw in a good trout for me every once in a while :-) I'm sorry that I am such a downer, and at the holidays to boot. But I'm so scared and I feel like if I don't get this out I will find myself writing that list again.
Peace and Love guys
Giz

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by DamTram, Dec 22, 2011
Giz,

This post is for YOU!  Several things:

1) There is no pro to killing yourself, and any item on that side of your list is a distorted thought produced by that monster of depression.  Tell it to shut the eff up, as you can think for yourself, thanks.  Gosh, if I could just reach inside of people and grab that d-bag monster of depression by the ear and yank it out and tell it to go kick rocks, I would.  I can't, so I will have to use my words.  You have SO MUCH CHEMICAL STUFF going on - if I didn't have my mom around to remind me every other day that in 2 hours I won't be saying that I want to do anymore, because of all the chemicals out of whack, I probably wouldn't get out of bed.  I'm not your mom, but I'm telling you - your chemicals are out of whack.  That's what brings out the d-bag of depression to tell you what to think.  Like I said, you can tell it to shut the eff up.

2) Whatever doctor put you on Lyrica for depression, I would like to kick in the face.  I have Fibromyalgia, so was put on it by my PCP, and he goes, 'And it's also a mood elevator'. Well, GUESS WHAT ONE OF THE OTHER SIDE EFFECTS IS?  Tearfulness.  I'm not quite sure how that is evidence of an elevated mood, doc.  If you do not want to be on the Lyrica, you have to taper off of it (like you would an anti-depressant).  It's not like Tramadol, where you're effed if you go cold turkey or not.  You will get REALLY suicidal if you try to c/t off of Lyrica.  Luckily, you can taper over 1-2 weeks and be fine.  And the taper is not painful.  I don't know if I gained weight on it or not, as I was also taking Tramadol and that was making me lose my appetite.  I know that after I would take one, though, I would immediately get hungry.  But if you're not on it for pain, I don't understand why they would put you on it.  It's just going to mess with your head, more.

3) It sounds like you are on a) narcotics b) Prozac and c) Lyrica.  Is there anything else?  Which kind of narcs?  How much/often?  For what?  If you're on Prozac and still depressed, then you should ask to try a different anti-depressant (given that you have pain issues, it's weird they don't have you on Cymbalta or Effexor in the first place).  If you're still in tons of pain with the narcotics, then maybe it's time to try a different one?  Or try injections?  Or surgery?  I don't know what your pain is from, so it's hard to say.  But I want to help arm you with information so that you can tell your doctor what YOU want.  Medical science has come too far for someone to be in complete pain and depressed, 24/7.  There are options.

4) Keep coming back here!  We will cheer you up.  Everyone here cheers me up.  I don't think I've said that I want to die, in like...days.  And today was my birthday in a city with no friends!  I got more birthday wishes from this forum than people who were once my close friends.  

Hope to hear from you, soon!





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by DamTram, Dec 22, 2011
Honorbound,

You are my HERO!  I got off of Lyrica earlier this fall, but am stuck on Clonazepam and Seroquel.  How did you survive getting off of the Clonazepam?  I know me and Legaljunky are working on it.  I cannot wait for the day when I do not have to go to the pharmacy for anything except my thyroid hormone!

Tell us your secret!  You're like a superhero!

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by fightorfight, Dec 22, 2011
Hey guys and gals,

Its been a better week.   I defintely can tell now the days where I'm no longer fighting the apathy and anhedonia--- its still there from time to time, but I can certainly power through if I set a goal in mind (study something, go to the gym).    Once I do something that feels like "work", I come away from it feeling good.   Maybe something to it in regards to getting your brain to release serotonin again.   Its sort of the same feeling I'd get after going through a pretty severe anxiety attack---- once you saw it through, and made peace with whatever sort of humiliation it caused you, you actually felt alright.  

Giz-  I'm on 20mgs of Prozac as well.   At that dose its really not going to do much but sort of blunt the depression- so you're not sitting around crying or just looking in the mirror for hours, but its not going to do much else.    I found it did a great job of stifiling the acute Tram W/Ds and some lingering PAWS things--- but, not so much that I don't think I couldn't have gotten away from Tram without it.     The good news is that 20 mgs is low, really low.     I'd take the advice of DT--- and just sort of list the things that are currently giving you so much grief, and see how different meds may effect your perception of things.    Prozac is ok, and I'm probably going to continue to take it at this dose.     However, all A/Ds, all of them, will blunt your affect---- People who call them "happy pills" are totally off the mark.    They can cause mania--- and thats a wholly different thing than not being depressed.   A line graph with less peaks and valleys, thats it.       I can only imagine that the Lyrica was recommended because of its indication for help with nerve pain.    Gabapentin's condensed big brother.    Lyrica has its uses, sure, but--- as an anti-depressant adjunct?  No way.   Talk with your Doc about it, but don't be afraid to do your own research about it, especially in regards to its interaction with pain meds.

Tramsick, DT and anyone else I missed:   On the topic of Klonopin,  I've always used the method (originally given to me by my doc) of taking a quarter of a pill down every 5-6 days.    Thats with a 1mg pill being the baseline for it.   This time around--- I was able to get off .5mg that I took for a month (my initial month off Tram) in about 2 weeks.     Its different for everybody, and sometimes you wind up being cross tolerant to other drugs (Like say if you were taking Valium or Ambien for months before) and thusly have to taper slowly because your GABA receptors have been hit for a longer period of time than just the stint of time that you were on Klonopin.   I, sadly, have a lot of experience with both Benzo and Z-drug withdrawal, having been on some variety (or combo of) them since I was 16.    I'm 28 now, and while I certainly wont demonize their use,  they aren't my panacea--- and have learned that lesson a few times over.  

How is everyone doing?   Booba? DT congrats on day 12, and Happy Birthday.    Denise?   Everybody hanging in?

Keep up the good work guys and gals.  

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 22, 2011
Lyrica - I never knew about it until I was working overseas and asked the pharmacist what the strongest pain med was for back pain.  She tried to give me  Pramadol or whatever Tylenol is called over there.  They are VERY strict in those countries, there is usually a policeman or guard in all of the pharmacies I have noticed.  Anyways, I saw Lyrica behind the counter and it seemed I read about it before so I asked her, she said it is strong and she actually sold it to me.  

All I really remember about it was that it just kinda makes you feel out of it and I would sleep really really deep.  The sleeping part was great, it wasnt like a benzo or anything.  It was kinda like taking 2 trazadone when you only usually take one.  You are a little off balanced while walking and just need to lie down. But the sleep was incredible.

The mornings are always depressing, but in my post I was referring to how tired tram makes you the next day.  Did anyone else ever notice that?  How hard it was to get up in the morning, not because of depression although some mornings that is the case, but just because you are so tired?  

DamTram - I remember you as well.  Its too bad how we always seem to come back to this board...  I am actually only on 20mgs of the extended release Adderall.  Its a pretty lose dose considering my 95lb GF was on the same amount.  My body is used to it now, I can eat fine now, although I used to be able to eat more.  But it doesnt really even affect me, I can take it and go take a nap just fine.  Your body really adjusts to it like anything else.  It has really improved my ability to focus, I mean it would with anyone.  I imagine over 60% of students at Harvard or any IVY league school get a prescription somehow.

In fact, it could be more of the adderall that is giving me the euphoria than the tram.  Stimulants release dopamine, which is going to make you feel "happy". When it wears off you can tell, I am very tired around 5 pm but not depressed.

  Today was the 2nd day in a row in which I managed to get up and not take my morning dose of tram for about an hour or so after I got ready for work.  That might sound minor, but there was a time when I woke up so depressed I would set my alarm clock an hour early to wake me up to take the tram and go back to sleep.  Then by the time I needed to get up for work they kicked in so I wasnt lying in bed depressed.

For those that are thinking suicide, it will pass and PLEASE do not act on it.  I felt the same way once, when I realized how big of a decision I made while on tram (took a job overseas).  I remember waking up the next morning in the hotel my company put me in for 30 days.  I had the first day off because I got in late the night before.  I was just taking Kratom at the time as I didnt want to be on Tram overseas, however I had a bottle of them.
That morning is when reality set in, and I had realized everything I had given up.  I thought about suicide I was that depressed.  I stayed in bed and just tried to sleep so I didnt have to think about it.  I left a GF and everything, I hurt her as well. I have been living with that guilt for the past almost year.  When I got off tram before my life was still the same, same job, same friends.  But now I have to do it while being in one of the worst places in the world, away from any support.  You cant be in a worse position than I was/am in, so hopefully that alone will help you feel better.  I know it makes people feel better seeing someone in a worst position than themselves. I am happy to be that person if it helps anyone on the board.

I think some of you should order Kava paste off the Internet.  It is highly concentrated and nothing like the Kava Kava pills you buy at walgreens or whatever.  They can act as a benzo without the addicting nature.  For those that are using Xanax, Valium, etc to get through this, just DONT get hooked on them.  Talk about a loooooonnnngggg withdrawal.  I did it once and it took 3 weeks until I could sleep.  It was just like the insomnia you get with Tram, but it lasted 3 whole weeks.  It was brutal.  

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by tramsick, Dec 22, 2011
DamTram, I'm on 1 mg Clonazepam twice/daily, but actually got myself down to .5/night for 3 days and the horrendous dizziness hit, so I went back to the full dosage  for awhile.  I feel so weak, but like I said, I need to function, and it's hard feeding, changing, potty training, and running after my 2 yr. old in that state of mind. I may just be making excuses, I don't know.  What dosage did you start on?  I'm sorry you're getting dizzy too, but at least you're making an attempt to wean, and the dizziness isn't that bad, I hope.

FOF, I missed you and your wonderful advice.  I like your tapering plan for Clon.  I did mine way too fast.  My doc doesn't think I've been on benzos long enough to have problems getting off them so he told me to wean as needed.  I think I did it too fast.  I'm going to try your approach when the time comes.  I'm just trying to get through the holidays.  Have 2 more family things to attend and then I'll be ready.  Truth is, I've been really sick.  The side effects from Lexapro are taking their toll, I don't feel like they are working.  I see my psych doc today.  I'm going to let him know what's been going on.  He wants me to up my dose, I'm sure.  Your thoughts are always appreciated.  Should I switch to another SSRI? SNRI?

I posted you a comment about your grandmother on the last thread, not realizing it was closed already, but just wanted to offer my love and support.  My mom has severe Alzheimer's, so I can relate to your plight.  I think it's so sweet you visit her a lot.  That will help you and her.  I know you think you are losing her, but there is some part of her that knows you're there.  I know it's hard, but you'll see glimmers of her from time to time that you have to hold dear in your heart.  At least that's been my experience with my mom.

Keep fighting everyone, I'm glad to see all of you trying so hard and being so strong.  Love and peace!



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by tramsick, Dec 22, 2011
Ooops, DamTram, I mean I actually got down to .25mg/night of clon.  I was almost there!  I'll get there again.  I'm not going to give up.

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by Gizmok, Dec 22, 2011
Thank you for the encouragement guys.  @damtram I am on 20mg oxycodone 4x a day, 40mg Prozac 1x a day, 1mg lorazepam as needed (which is hardly ever) I take maybe one or two a week for panic attacks, 50mg lyrica 2x a day. But the doc just put me on lyrica yesterday, so I think that I am just not going to take it. I read that the withdraw is hell, and that is all I need another addicting drug. I also take 4,000iu's of vitamin D, 1,000 iu's of vitamin E, and a 20mg ompeprazole. God, looking at that list makes me cringe. Seems like an awful lot of oxycodone, but the pain is excruciating without it. I have 4 herniated disks in my back, but the surgeon says they are not bad enough to cause this much pain, so I have also been given a diagnosis of piriformis syndrome. I have an appt with a physiologist this morning, who told my dr on the phone that he does not believe in piriformis syndrome, makes me want to scream. My doctor says that the physiologist can figure out what is wrong by doing a bunch more tests on me, the sad part for me about that is all the tests hurt and I pay for them for days with my pain. Even the MRI was soooo painful, an MRI, I mean really, they had to have two people help me off the table after it. I feel like such a wuss, but it really is that painful. I am hoping that this doctor will have an open mind as to my diagnosis, I feel like my md is just done with me and is foisting me off on someone who is going to treat me like a lab rat. I am tired of all the tests, I have been doing them for the the last 4 and 1/2 years. No more!
Thank you guys for letting me rant, I don't have anyone else to blab too. I will never hurt myself, I have promised this to myself. I am mortified that I was writing that list, I feel like I am going crazy or something. Bi-polar or I don't know what. I have never had depression like this, it's the most scary thing. Without being able to come here and read your guy's posts everyday I think I really would go crazy. I wish I could just drop everything and take nothing, but I did that for 8 months and was in so much pain this is where it got me.
Here we go again, I will post later after my appt
Peace and love guys <3 your my life support

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by Gizmok, Dec 22, 2011
Okay legal junkie, you just made me laugh sooooo hard, thank you for that. I meant to say throw me a good thought every now and then. Not throw me a trout. Lol awesome. :-)

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by legaljunky, Dec 22, 2011
Damtram- Thanks for the nudge- We went to the ocean (NJ) today and walked the beach .  It was warm, sunny and beautiful, fishermen on the beach and surfers in wetsuits riding the waves.  Nothing makes me happier!

Gizmok and everyone who is going thru a rough patch- please keep posting and let us send you hugs and positive thoughts.  I have been to the bottom with depression myself and it was the most painful thing I have ever experienced. Today I am happy.  And suicide would have been a permanent solution for a temporary situation.  I had no one to talk to about my thoughts at that time and I am so glad to hear you getting your thoughts out on the forum. So many of us have been to the bottom and back.  We're gonna help in hauling you up if you let us, Gizmok!

I'm hoping my energy is back, but I'm having little sweats again.  Maybe It's Tramadevil?  Nothing I can't deal with.

Love, hope, strength and perseverance to all of us Tram warriors!!

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 23, 2011
4leefclover - "waiting awhile until you take that first one is a big deal....that is how they measure addiction to cigs...time awake to time for first cigarette equals power in addiction....so making that gap longer is going to be very helpful for your wean"

That is wonderful advice and I had no idea it was so common with trying to quit smoking.  

It is the hardest part no doubt for me.  Whether I am just so tired, or I am just so depressed, my mornings are never easy.  I usually wake up from some nightmare because of just thinking about this addiction all the time.  Its just that the nightmares are so real, or maybe my mentality in the morning makes them seem more real than what they should.  Basically in the morning my serotonin and dopamine levels are going to be the lowest, which is why it ***** so bad.

I think it makes a big difference on how far you are in this addiction if you use tram first thing in the morning.  When I started I only took them at night after work and the gym.  It was for recreation only.  Well we all know what happens after awhile.  But I believe that switch, when you start using them to do everything, is when it becomes a true nightmare.

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by Sarabie, Dec 23, 2011
Just a quick hello to see my ticker - 100 days today :-D :- D :-D


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by legaljunky, Dec 23, 2011
Congrats, Sarabie!!  I loved my 100 day too!
Today is the busiest day of the year for me, I hope I have energy.
I know so many of you, my Tram fighting buddies have heavier burdens to carry today, my thoughts and prayers are with you.

Love, strength, hope, grace, and perseverance, 1 day at a time!!!

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by denised1982, Dec 23, 2011
Hey y'all,

I just wanted to tell yall that I am still hanging in there and doing okay.. I have been trying to sleep for the past 5 days and it wasn't working, I would wake up after 2 or 3 hours. I also had to work these past 4 nights, and the kicker of it all was I would get home from work and sleep for 2 or 3 hours and be up from say.. 1030-1100 am  and up all that day and all night working and come home and do the same thing again. I guess I am going a little crazy here. As far as everything else things are going allright.

I hope everyone elses day is good. I am about to float away into dreamland. I will post something later, it's been 27-28 hours since i've woken up.

Take care everyone.

love,

Denise

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by DamTram, Dec 23, 2011
Denise - Hang in there!  The less you stress about sleep, the easier it will come.  I've got some other tips I can share, if you want. =)

I'm just hanging in, there.  Congrats on 100 days, Sarabie!

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by 4leefclover, Dec 23, 2011
Oh yeah- boo? What did you learn from the psychic about your brother today?
Hope your Christmas with your family is everything you want it to be.  

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by GA_need_help, Dec 23, 2011
Hi,
I am still doing my taper!  I have had such an anxious bit of time.  My ears ring, and I know it is an opiate thing! Do your ears ring?  I can't go lower with my taper because I don't have enough lower ER tablets!  I so want to!!  It helps to see other people tapering.  It gives me strength.  I have an 8-year--old daughter to care for while I am doing this.  We have company coming for dinner tonight, and I don't feel like trying to find clothes to wear! Everything is hard!!! I miss my routines b/c of Christmas.  Why can't I just enjoy this/??  Marie

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by DamTram, Dec 23, 2011
The holidays are extremely difficult for almost EVERYONE, Marie!  Go easy on and be kind to yourself.  =)

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by 4leefclover, Dec 23, 2011
Hi Marie-nothing wrong with coasting on a taper to accommodate the holiday activities and changes in daily structure
Isn't it nIce you've made this commitment... I know my drug use interferes with my ability to truly connect with my children
We are on the way out!!

Having a tough eve here....headachy and sad....work tomorrow and sun too!
Some craving going on.....tryin to 'keep the faith'

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 24, 2011
4leef - Yes and no about the AD (SSRI).  I am prescribed 20mg of lexapro, however I rarely take it because of the tram use, once my taper gets to lower levels I will start back up on the lexapro.  However I do take Adderall 20mg XR every morning.  I notice the tram and the adderall kinda fight over how I am going to feel, but one thing is for sure, when they both wear off I am ready for bed (at 6pm).

The Adderall has a lot of pros and cons to it.  My stomach is finally used to it so I can eat, and it doesnt keep me awake all night.  It does help my focus, but it kills my libido.  Between tram and adderall, I lost it big time, which is weird because before it was the complete opposite.  The bad part about Adderall is it can make you a negative person.  If obviously makes you more effective at work but that can backfire with your colleagues who arent quite as "gung ho" as you are.  Tram might be worse, I was literally OCD on tram.  If I cleaned my house, I would clean every inch of it which would just turn into other side projects.  It was insane.  

Whats funny though is tram makes us all have this energy and motivation to do work that we normally cant stand.  But you dont realize how dumb it actually makes you.  I catch myself writing horrible emails all the time.  And you forget everything, I will forget what I did last night or what I have told someone.  You end up repeating yourself all the time.  My GF was always saying that to me.
I remember reading one post about how they kept finding tram stashes around the house.  Its because you forget where you hide it because you are high on tram at the time.  Ever packed for a long vacation while on tram?  lets just say it can be interesting.

Although Adderall could turn me into a demanding person, I could be downright rude on tram. It makes you happy but do any of your get so incredibly inpatient?  Plus it lowers your inhibitions so you might say something that you usually wouldnt which can get you into trouble.  I have noticed that ever since I have been taking tram that my jobs have been worse, I dont get along with the people as much, and vice versa.  I was NEVER like that, always a very calm likable guy.  I think tram just turned me into this super worker who thinks everyone else should be doing work at your level as well.  

Then when you get off, wow how much that changes.  You went from volunteering for work to trying to skip out early, going to the bathroom 18 times a day, show up to work 15 minutes late, and hit every fast food restaurant for dinner.  That is one of my biggest fears when I come off completely, I dont want to be tired all day and never satisfied with life.  However, now I basically hate my life so when I look at it that way, well its pretty obvious what I would rather have...

I hope everyone is enjoying the holidays.  Out here in Afghan its just another day, it ***** spending the holidays out here but I am not married nor have kids so I have no problems letting those guys make it home for the holidays.

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by 4leefclover, Dec 24, 2011
bHB- there were mornings where I'd just sit on the couch....waiting to take my first trams and 'get goin' for the day...my limbs like lead and my thoughts negative ....Knowing I needed those little white pills to move was quite demoralizing...but that was reality for me...I started recreationally too....just getting extra energy for work and play. Turned into a monster within a few months
The adderal can cause some depression....all stimulants can. What is your current weaning program on the trams?
I did an extra 25 mg last night but no more
Good thing I got rid of my huge stash or I know I would have done a few more last night-- my cravings were hot
Off to work.  Enjoy your xmas eve warriors
Keep going!

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 24, 2011
I was averaging about 25 a day, I am also a 220lb guy so it isnt hard to build a tolerance.  Got down to 18 very easily (1-2 weeks) and was starting to get back into the gym.  Then I went on a 19 day training class in Dubai.  That really screwed up my routine, and I found myself taking more just to give me energy for the class.  But you know as well as I do that tram gives you energy at first, but then makes you super tired.

So I just got back to Afghan on Mon.  This week I havent really attempted to get back on my routine, I was going to take an exam today but the testing place had computer issues.  However, I want to start on Monday.  I have to get back in the routine.  However I do run out of Adderall next week, and for some reason there is a shortage of it at pharmacies.  So I will be dealing with that next week.  I am not that worried about it, I know I will be tired and lethargic, but if kids can withdrawal from it for the summers than I sure as hell can.  I take a low dose anyways.

My goal is to get it to 10 a day.  I have quit CT doing more than that a day.  I am too afraid I will have to go into a forced CT withdrawal since I face more obstacles in getting the meds.  I order from multiple websites so I can almost stock up just in case.  Once out here our compound was attacked and I couldnt get back to my room for over 30 hours.  I just happened to start the taper that morning too so I didnt take much.  Well lets just say the next day sucked, until I was finally able to get my meds.  Since then I carry enough on me just in case.

I am just tired of it running my life, I am a completely different person than I was 2 years ago.  I do have addiction in my family, and I always knew if I ever had unlimited access to pain pills I would be addicted.  I joked about it back then, who knew that it would become a reality....

The only way I can get through it is with the gym.  Working out and being in shape was my main thing, and I let it slip away. I lost a lot of confidence because of that, which makes it more difficult to taper.  However, once I start getting a few weeks of consistent gym time in it does wonders for my outlook.

My taper is just going to be a "feel it out" one.  I know what will happen. I will taper low enough to then just go CT.  Once my routine is stable and I get rid of the current depression.  I am willing to do whatever it takes, if it even means rehab so be it.  I am not afraid of admitting I have a problem with these.  My recovery is the ultimate goal, it doesnt matter how I get there.  I dont want to return to the US on these.  I will get help in the US, see a therapist etc.  I dont really have that option here.  But if I can just get off the pills here, I will deal with all the mental stuff at home.

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by legaljunky, Dec 24, 2011
Merry Christmas Eve to all my Tram warrior buddies!  And an extra hug to those of you are in Afghan or Kuwait or wherever you are away from home!  That has to be tough on a lot of levels.

Last night I started writing a whiney, poor me post, I had too much to do and not enough time, and I was so tired.  But then I deleted it realizing I am so lucky to be Tram free, and what ever doesn't get done, I don't care.  We have 25 people coming at !:00 and they will do the work.  I'm almost done with all the cooking I have to do. So far today I feel OK.  And when the bottom drops out of me I will go to the bedroom and lock the door!

Holiday hugs to Emily and my cohort Tram fighters, you got me off of Tramadol, I love you for being here for me! Stay strong!
Love, Lorraine


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by Gizmok, Dec 24, 2011
Good morning everyone. Merry Christmas eve. <3 I hope that everyone's holidays are beautiful and full of love. Booba, I am praying that your family finds peace. All of you keep up the good fight.  I am in awe of your strength and honesty.
Peace and love guys
Charlotte

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by denised1982, Dec 24, 2011
Well well well.. I got like 20 hours of sleep yesterday. I feel a lot better. I friggin crashed and burned! I needed it though... How is everyone doing?
I got my hair done yesterday and got violet based red highlights in it. I was about to fall asleep at the salon. I was begging the stylist to just let me go, but she had to dry my hair. I said, look, at this point you can shave my head and I couldn't care less about what it looks like, I'm going to go straight to bed. :) Merry Christmas, everyone!

I'm doing better.
<3 Denise


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by Icandothis10, Dec 25, 2011
Merry Christmas everyone!!  Sending hugs and strength from an "undisclosed location in the Middle East"  Doing ok on my taper still.  I am still trying to adjust to the time so it may take a couple days for me to get to where I can start lowering the doses again.  i'll get there!  Hugs everyone!!

Denise

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by Sarabie, Dec 25, 2011
Merry Christmas everyone :-)

And thank you Legal and Damtram for congratulating me. 100 days is quite a milestone and I'm so happy I made it this far. From now on it should be a walk in the park I guess :-)

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by legaljunky, Dec 25, 2011
Merry, merry, merry Christmas to all my best buddies- the Tramadevil fighting bunch!  Wherever in the world you are!
Our big day was yesterday and then we had another smaller gathering today.  It all went so much better than I thought it would. I thought I would be wiped out and unable to hold my own in conversation, but no!  I held it together!  I haven't eaten any sugar for a couple weeks  (I crave it but it makes me very tired) and held off till after dinner today when I took a 1/2 piece of 2 pies I usually love.  I tasted them and didn't like them!- maybe I will stay off sugar and feel much better from now on!

Strength and hugs to everyone of you, and especially to you who are still fighting the tough times. Booba- extra prayers.

Lorraine

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by booba77, Dec 25, 2011
Sorry I haven't posted. Psychic put me off until tomorrow. Merry Christmas. Been a weird crappy horrible Christmas. I will post more tomorrow. Soooo tired...

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by denised1982, Dec 26, 2011
Booba-let us know how everything turns out.. We have been worried about you.

This time last year I was broke because I had accidentally ordered 2 big bottles of tramadol. Now, I don't need them anymore. I don't hurt like I used to. This is great. I feel in control and I don't have to worry about running out of meds.

I went over to a friends house the other day and told him about my battle with ultram. He said the doctor prescribed it to him for 6 months and he never recalled having withdrawals. I told him I was constantly in withdrawals. Then I began to lift weights with him and to both his and my astonishment I was bench pressing as much weight as he put on there and curling 25 pound weights. I haven't lifted in at least five years and 11 years on a regular basis. I remember a couple of months ago while taking tramadol I couldn't curl a 15 pound weight when I was messing around with them at the store. Tramadol made me extremely weak. I feel pretty good! I caught a cold but I think it has a lot to do with going all those days without sleep.

Everyone have a wonderful night and keep pressing on. I send my love, hugs and many blessings!
<3 Denise

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by Gizmok, Dec 26, 2011
Sarabi, legal junkie, Denise, damtram, you guys I love to see your trackers.  You are all amazing!!!
Thank you everyone for your support and advice, I am so drugged up right now blech.  Yesterday while I was walking my 115lb dog, he knocked me over and I fell back and broke my elbow. Yay me. Holy crap, it hurts like no bodies business. He then ran away, and my husband had to chase him a couple of miles, while I'm laying there on the side of the road (with my 3lb dog). The pain in my elbow was so bad I could hardly move. Now the whole arm is in a cast lol.  Man, when it rains it pours. :-)
I wish all my tramwarrior's victory and peace.
Love
Charlie <3

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 27, 2011
Gizmok - That *****. So were you tapering on tram or had you been clean before the accident?  Injuries are the perfect excuse to relapse.  I dont mean that negatively in your case Gizmok, breaking an elbow.....ouch.  I have had injuries before that NSAIDs (OTC Tylenol, Motrin.....) could easily provide as much pain relief as vicodin, tramadol,  or whatever.  However in our heads its the perfect excuse to get back on pain meds, "well if the doctor says so, I better take them".  I got painkillers when I broke my thumb, I remember lying to the doc about the pain so I could get a refill....  Then I would take more than the dosage so I could get the high.

Anyone know what the strongest, non-narcotic painkiller there is (besides tramadol lol)?  Just curious.

Does anyone on the board know anyone that has went through that new medical detox procedure called "rapid detox"?  I think thats the general term.  Where they basically put you under and put chemicals into your body that makes the WDs happen instantly, so you are out cold while your body is detoxing.  I guess it takes a couple hours, but your physical WDs are supposed to be over when you wake up.  Its super expensive, like $8k or so, and no insurance company is going to pay for it.  I just wonder what you would feel like when you wake up.  There is no way the can make your brain start producing serotonin right away, so you are going to still go through the depression stages.  I guess it wouldnt be as bad though if you didnt have physical symptoms on top of it.  Its an interesting and highly controversial procedure.



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by legaljunky, Dec 27, 2011
Hi Beenherebefore- Wonder why you want to know the answer to your question?.................

Anyway- I'm on Voltaren, an NSAID for arthritis back pain. It was prescribed by my Lyme disease Dr who is also a Rheumatologist. 3 months after she had prescribed it, she asked if I had ever taken more than the prescribed dose and I hadn't. I guess some people abuse it.  I've been on it for years except for the 2 years when I couldn't take it and she prescribed Tramadol saying it was not likely to be addictive.  And we all know the rest of the story!

I have no trouble staying away from Tram because I never got high and I never craved it.  Sugar is another story-  I stayed off it as long as I had made the commitment to, but then I had dessert, didn't even like it, but went back to it later and I am paying the price- headache, back ache, and I'm so tired.
I'm having a tiny taste of what many of you are going thru in a big way with Tramadevil.  This is no way to live.

Strength, perseverance and love,
Lorraine

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 27, 2011
legaljunky - I think you misunderstood, I meant what is the strongest medication for pain that is not addicting, and cant be abused because no high is achieved?  I wasnt looking for another pill to add to my problem.

I am surprised you didnt feel anything from tramadol, like the high in which most of us abused it for, were you taking any other kind of opiate at the time?  I think I took two 50mg pills the first time and it felt like Vicodin or any other of the major painkillers.  I couldnt believe you could order something like this.  I weighed about 225lbs and 2 got me a buzz at that time.

Does the Voltaren work just as good in regards to physical pain?  

Maybe its just me but I wonder if opiate based painkillers are effective because it also elevates your mood so your not thinking about the pain as much.  Thats why it hits the Dopamine receptors.  But in reality something like Voltaren is just as effective for moderate pain.  Now I know there are some injuries in which you have to have morphine or whatever the most powerful stuff is.



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by legaljunky, Dec 27, 2011
Hi AshA48-
You've got the wrong dude! The only thing I've been addicted to is Tramadol and that was from taking only the amount prescribed by my Dr. for 2 years.

The most simple yet profound thing I ever heard about addiction to drugs was a quote of Tony Bennett after he had tried drugs. He said "Doing drugs is a sin against your art."

I wish you the best of luck and that you fight like all of us here to get and stay clean and free!

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by legaljunky, Dec 27, 2011
BeenHereBefore- I hope I didn't offend you, I have arned the reputation for saying something that is offensive and after it's out of my mouth it's too late for me!  I don't have that filter in my brain that edits out the wrong thing before I say it!

I've never been opiates, I don't think.  For years I have been on 2 mg Clonzepam for sleep, and low doses of Elavil, and Lexapro, all related to permanent damage by Lyme disease getting to my brain.  I never get high, and I assume I will be on these drugs for the rest of my life with  regular blood tests to make sure they are not causing damage.

Voltaren is working better than anything else ever has, probably because I lost 35 lbs. while I was on Tramadol. Something good comes from everything!? I am 67 years old, about 5'5" and now weigh about 167 lbs.  My Lyme Dr expained that I have depression caused by a chemical imbalance (caused by Lyme disease doing brain damage) and that back pain and depression are all part of the same problem and the meds work together to alleviate them.

I first had severe depression while I had Lyme disease and it was slowly aleviated as the Lyme got better and the meds helped.  It took years. Then I had to go off Voltaren for 2 years because I got Lupus Anticoagulent (caused by immune disorder caused by Lyme) so the Dr. put me on 400mg daily of Tram, and I really don't remember how bad my back pain was, I was so sick with L. A. at the time. Then the L.A. went away after 2 years so she took me off Tram and back on Voltaren (I had been taking 200mg Tram daily at the time) and that was when I realized I was addicted and in WD.

What's really interesting is that I've compared notes with other warriors whose history throughout WD have been so different.  During the time I was on Tram I had no appetite, lost 35 lbs and was never high. I tapered slowly off 200mg, never having abused it, and in WD had lots of physical and some depression problems.  Compared to someone who had been taking something like 24 Tram a day. stopped CT, never got depressed and I think had fewer physical problems than I did. We're all so different.

By the way, I don't drink alcohol because I'm on so many meds I just don't think I should.  and I spent years in Alanon (for families of alcoholics) and I think Alcoholism could be in my genes.

Beenherebefore, I just read my post to you and I was way out of line.  I'm so sorry.  We are all in the same boat here, just in different parts of the stream. I'm very lucky to have beaten Tramadevil.  And you will too.

Strength, perseverance, and love,
Lorraine

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by BeenHereBefore, Dec 28, 2011
legaljunky - Dont worry about it, I can see how my post might have looked.  I was just curious what the most effective non-addictive medication was on the market.  I know technically Tramadol is suppose to be that be we all know thats not true.
I am sorry to hear about your history of health problems.  And yes, if you have addiction in your family its very likely you have the genetic disposition as well.  I have addiction on both sides, my Dad was an alcoholic when I was young.  He got treatment and has been clean in probably 20+ years.  My mother attended Alanon and she used to take me to the kids class.  I actually hated going because I felt like I was the only one that had a messed up family.  I do think my mom took it too seriously when I was young, and tried to take me to counselors and everything, it really bruised by sel-esteem.  However, I know that I am an addict, I know all the signs, I know the 12 steps stuff, and I think it did do me good because I recognized my problem right away and quit CT.  It was hard, because I refused to take any prescription drug anymore.  I had xanax during the WD and I didnt take it.  I was tired of pills.

However, I didnt watch myself once I was clean and relapsed thinking I had more willpower to keep it under control.  That sentence right there is an addict speaking.

When it comes to everybody having different WDs, I think a lot of it depends on the person.  If you are already a depressed person then the WD is going to be horrible.  Or if you think about the WD too much and actually make it worse.  Some people are more positive and can get through it and move on.  It sounds like you have experienced depression for so long that the WDs from tramadol seemed much more intense than someone who didnt have the underlying depression.

I know just reading about people's WDs before you go through yours is a bad idea, IMO.  If I never read anything about tramadol WDs I wouldnt stress over it.  In fact, I remember when I first started taking it I would often take a day off to see if I felt any WDs, since I didnt in a day I assumed it was pretty weak on your system.  The first time I went CT, I went to the gym on the first day and was squatting over 300lbs.  I just remember not being able to sleep at all that night.  So I went to work so tired that I just took off in the morning.  I couldnt take a nap even though I was tired and I started to feel more anxious.  Then I started googling Tramadol WDs......it seemed like once I started to read the stories about tram WD on the web it immediately got 100x's worse.

I

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by legaljunky, Dec 28, 2011
Beenherebefore-  Well now I feel better!
My health history looks awful but it has a brighter side.  In between all the awfuls I have had wonderful times.  So many people who were as sick as I was with Lyme had to give up their professions and lost a huge facet of their lives.  I was a self-employed jeweler so I could do nothing when I was at my worst and when I felt good enough I could work.  And my husband had a real job so we never had money problems.  Lyme disease did permanent brain damage so that I have memory problems, often have trouble speaking and can't find nouns, and writing a cohesive paragraph or more is VERY difficult.  But Lyme did not get to the creative, artistic part of my brain so I can still design and when my head is clear I can use the acetylene torch and make the jewelry.  

Throughout Tram WD I could not work because my creativity was gone and I was so wacky I knew not to try soldering with the torch.  Just 2 weeks ago I designed and made a necklace and it is unlike anything I have ever designed before.  It's interesting- I know it was designed by Tramadevil. The whole me is coming back slowly!

My first husband didn't get clean till our children were adults and he really hurt our son.  I too forced my kids into Alateen when the were in grammar and high school till they just refused to go anymore.  But like you, they got what they needed from it, and don't have drinking problems.  But my brother's son, who has alcoholism history on his Mom and Dad's parents but did not live with an alcoholic or see alcoholism in his own family, became an alcoholic.  He has since cleaned up his act.

When I look back at my life, I've had some tough times but the whole of it is wonderful and I am very happy. Life is just life.

I forgot you are in Afgan.  I loved reading The Kite Runner but I'm sure that has nothing to do with life there now.
Stay safe if that is possible. And stay strong.

To you, BHB and all my Tram fighting buddies, I am refocusing on why we are here- TRAMADEVIL!!!

Sending strength, love and perseverance!

Lorraine


I think that's enough from me!

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by DamTram, Dec 28, 2011
Nice conversation, BHB and Legal - you make interesting points.  I definitely think the extent to which you have the luxury of being able to take care of yourself during wd's, regardless of whether or not you read posts about it prior, helps the healing process.

I have no idea what day I'm on - the sister was in town for almost a week, and last night was the first night I couldn't get back to sleep (tried going down from 1mg to .75mg of clonazepam) in awhile.  Having nothing to do over winter break has been both good and bad, and I'm ready to get back to school.  Somehow I pulled out 2 A's and an A- for quarter's end, even though I spent the last month up in the tramacloud.  The last paper that I wrote, I started at 12am and ended at 5am and it got an A- with, "You're a good writer" from the professor.  I'm trying not to be terrified that I might not be a good writer or get A's OFF of Tramadol, going into the next quarter.  I'm trying to believe that I'll do even better?

Fight on, fighters!

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by DamTram, Dec 28, 2011
I have been out of school for 19 days?  That's almost 3 weeks!  That's crazy.  I'm hoping the 30 days PAWS isn't abominable.
  
All my love.

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by denised1982, Dec 28, 2011
DamTram-Congratulations! I didn't realize it's been 19 days for you. Awesome. The days must be going by quicker.

BeenHereBefore- I can honestly relate to the WDs being 100x worse upon reading about them. You are so right. I had bad withdrawals waiting on the fedex man. When I decided to quit, I feel like I didn't have WDs NEARLY as bad. Thank God, otherwise I wouldve been back on Tramadol.

Coming off of ultram this time was a breeze. It has been a long time since I have felt good. Despite of this acute sinusitis going on and not being able to breathe out of my nose, I feel pretty good.

Everyone owes it to themselves to be free of this dirty, tricky, sh*tty drug. It really is dirty. It used to make my skin breakout badly. It was horrible. If it was doing this to my skin, what in the hell was it doing to the rest of my body? Only time will tell. I hate it. I really do. But like all things, I guess it's a lesson learned for me.

<3 Denise

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by fightorfight, Dec 28, 2011
Evening guys and gals,

Been a while.   Things are going alright for me, the Holiday was tough given my family situation--- so A lot of my time, when it was free, was spent at the gym working away some of that depression.    Its still working, so I'm thankful for that,  and have tried working more strength training/lifting into my routine.   Thats always been my thing--- and for some ungodly reason, my mp3 player decided to break this week--- no tunes = tough times on the cardio stuff.   Still putting in work.  

DT- Congrats on 20 days (by the time you read this).   I used to think that Tram gave me some sort of vernacular and wit that would otherwise be inaccessible, but that was and never has been the case,  I'm sure you'll do extremely well putting yourself on paper.    Typing in these journals helps a lot, and its something that I can really say has helped me become a better writer and speaker.    Keep up the good work, and I hope that you're getting some rest before you head back to school.    

Denise- Congrats on Day 27, or it will be at least in 30 minutes.    The PAWS episodes aren't as bad as you'd think, and they only last a few days.    Some will only get them at 30 days out--- and then they'll be so mild afterward that you really could attribute it to a mild cold (which is something, at least this time of year, everyone seems to have).    Some get them up until day 120--- but, I wouldn't worry about it.    Life continues.

I hope everybody thats out there, or lurking, knows that this can be done.    Its work, hard work, initially--- then you have space to breathe and mark out your next milestone.    Stay strong.

Take care all.
FoF

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by CJJ28, Dec 29, 2011
Today is day 4 without trams, will I ever start to feel better? I think my legs and not sleeping are the worst for me. I've been taking mag supplements and melatonin even tried some benadryl but nothing seems to help. I've only been taking trams for about a month, started taking them when I got off methadone (I was on methadone for 2 yrs), and prior to that a 5 yr herion addiction. Any advise is greatly appreciated.

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by Sarabie, Dec 29, 2011
Denise - I know what you mean. Tram have given me an awfull rash on the hand. I never had a pimple before and while on tram I was in the hospital twice for boils. One behind my bladder and one on my thigh. Never had a dental problem before tram and suddenly my teeth just cracked. Always had a perfect eyesight and again, suddenly, needed glasses. All in all small things, but I just know it's tram related. 106 days off now and the rash is almost gone, I don't need the glasses anymore but the teeth are damaged for good unfortunately. So I'm thinking... if tram can influence the teeth that much, what about the bones? I'm pretty sure they would have been next to fall apart - and after them, the internal organs. It seems so harmless. Just a little pill. And off course the doctors can't tell us in advance that all these things will happen if we start abusing them for years, cause they don't know. I guess we are the first generation of long term users, so it's kind of our responsibility to tell. This forum is great. I wish everyone with a tram prescription could read this forum before taking their first tram.

CJJ - you will feel better. I wish I could tell you when, but we are all so different and react very different durin w/d's. Since you haven't been using tram for long, you should start to feel better soon. But since your body doesn't get it's methadone either I guess there could be some w/d's from that too. I'm on my 106th day without tram and I still get w/d's once in awhile. It just takes time. Unfortunately.

Personally I've had PAWS for a few days. Cried my eyes out all of the 25th. All my future plans seemed impossible somehow. Back on track again though :-)

Love and strenght to all

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by booba77, Dec 29, 2011
Hey guys.  I haven't been keeping up with the posts, mainly because I have been so exhausted and busy.  I guess my last trams was the 14th so I am 2 weeks Tram free today-yay.  I am sleeping a lot better, and the RLS is gone for the most part.  But I have zero energy.  And zero motivation.  I honestly feel like I am going crazy, and it could have a lot to do with my brother still being missing, and dealing with the tons of psychics, and lack of sleep and worrying about my parents and how they are doing.  It is like a woke up out of dream to finally participate in my life, and now I find it is falling apart around me!  Anyway, the one medium (the one I was waiting to hear from) said my brother fell from a high place, hit his head and died, about 3-4 days after he went missing (which was mid-September) and nature took its course, but that he was happy and had found the spiritual enlightenment he was looking for, which is calming.  I don't know.  It is all very overwhelming.  It is weird, because my brother was always just my brother to me, but now I am finding a lot about him that I never knew.  Like that he was a total genius, not just a smart guy, but smart to the point where it was frightening, and it made him unrelatable to a lot of people (he didn't like people, and was never a people person, and I'm really not either).  I always just thought he was really funny, witty, and caring.  He was the best out of the two of us, and I feel sad that my parents are left with just me, the needy one for whom they do everything.  I like to envision him in a field somewhere, or hanging off of a cliff (rock climbing was his passion, and he was an aerospace engineer, but gave it up to trim trees because he loved nature so much).  And I will be eternally shaking my fist at him, for leaving me here with my parents and their 40 sheds of clutter to go through (we are a family of packrats, except for him of course).  Anyway enough about me.  I see we have some newbies.  

CJJ28-Hang in there.  Day 4 is a bad day.  It will get better slowly.  Time heals all wounds.  The lack of sleep and RLS were the worst.  Get some immodium,hylands restless legs (although honestly I feel they did nothing for me, but they may help you) and hot baths (as hot as possible) with epsom salt will relax you.  If you take a really hot bath, get out and dry off really quick and swarth yourself with blankets, you may relax enough to sleep for 3-4 hours.  I didn't have to do that this go around, but I am an old timer, so I have relapsed and am familiar with the territory, as we all are.    A lot of us here needed an antidepressant, especially those of us on tramadol for longer periods.  You may be okay and may be able to wait it out since you were only on them for 30 days, but if you are finding yourself totally depressed and complacent all the time, you may need an AD.  I am taking wellbutrin and I really feel it is helping.  My depression is mostly caused by stuff going on in my life right now.  

I will have to read up more on the posts and reply to all of you later, but I feel so bad for not checking in more often.  I need to, because this place alone is the key to not relapsing for me.  Keeping the knowledge of the pain real and fresh in my mind helps a lot.  And it is always good to give back to the community.  There are so many people on this crap, and it is a terrible, horrible, drug.  I hope everyone had a wonderful (insert religious holiday of your choosing).  New Years is coming up.  I hope everyone can ring in the new year happily and tram free.  I will be asleep by 10 PM, but I will at least be tram free, and that is good enough for me.  

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by DamTram, Dec 29, 2011
Booba - Thank you for sharing about your brother...I know I'm not the only one whose heart goes out to you.  He sounds wonderful, and I hope that you and your family are able to find peace, soon.  They are as lucky to have you as they are to have him; I'm sorry this is all making you feeling like that might not be true.  I promise it is.

Sarabie - Good for you for letting the tears out!  And then being able to move on.  I don't know what your future plans are, but I bet they are the most definitely possible. =)

Denise - Thank you!  That time really flew.  I hope you are still sleeping well!

FoF - Good for you on the exercise!  I sympathize about the music...it is what got me up and out there.  I have never exercised so much since college, during this withdrawal.  I really think it makes all of the difference, in sweating that junk out faster and boosting lots of great NT's/enhancing sleep.  Hang in there...I know I'm not the only one sending strength your way.  And thank you for the reassurance about the writing, and the congratulations.  Day 20 sounds good to me!  Congratulations on 62!

CJJ - Welcome!  You've made it to the right place.  Was there a point in time between the methadone and the tramadol?  Could the others be right that part of this is not having anything in your opioid receptors, at all?  Do you have a doctor watching over you?  Day 4 really is the worst.  I think that's when I went crazy from insomnia.  I was lucky that I had borrowed a cure-all book for insomnia and spent my nights reading that.  In terms of sleep, the more you beat yourself up about not being able to sleep and/or freak out about it, the less likely you'll be to fall asleep.  If you are in bed >30 without falling asleep, get out and go to another room.  Don't get back into bed until you are 100% drowsy.  Benadryl has the opposite effect for some people (agitates instead of sedates), so don't feel badly about that.  Sleep will start to come.  

If I were you, I'd spend the time I'm not sleeping giving myself non-stop high-fives for conquering heroin, methadone, AND tramadol!  Our bodies are extremely resilient (as Sarabie was saying...minus the teeth), and you WILL feel better.  

This time (and the last time...I've been on it 3 times), I was only on tramadol for a month.  Aside from the insomnia, I was way better by Day 5.  Last winter, after I'd been on it for 5 months, I still could barely do anything.  The shorter you're on it, the better.  But it DOES leave your brain without an anti-depressant, as the tramadol is half a) a synthetic, partial opioid agonist (heroin and methadone are both actual opiates) and b) an anti-depressant that is structurally identical to Effexor but in mechanism to MDMA/Ecstasy.  I was already on Seroquel, so I'm sure that's helping with the depression.  It's worth talking to your doctor about.

I hope you (and all others!) are hanging in there!

Good riddance, 2011!  Bring on 2012!

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by CJJ28, Dec 29, 2011
Everyone thanks for the advise!!! The hot bathes seem to help the best, but I have 4 little ones so the time I get in there is not nearly as much as I'd like. Not looking forward to tonight, nights are tough. I've been super emotional, I guess I've really been numb inside for a long time and actually starting to feel again as been a slap in the face. Your stories have given me much needed hope that I too can overcome this. Thanks and God Bless!

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by denised1982, Dec 30, 2011
dang it's quiet today.. everyone okay?

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by rainallday, Dec 30, 2011
Hello everyone, Just checking in to say Happy holidays and Happy new year!

It's been a good while since i posted....Other than 1 day of slip up taking maybe 4 tramadol in early July,(dental pain) I've been tramadol free since Jan 3rd 2011...So coming up on 1 year free...I dont think about them at all anymore, except when I'm stressed and anxiety ridden which is alot lately, (car transmission is going out) , I remember that they gave me what feels like chronic panic disorder...I work out running 3 times a week and that helps me greatly, but ever since quitting tramadol i can't quite get that feeling ever that everything will be 'alright'...I feel way more vulnerable than i used too...thanks alot tramadol...What an aweful aweful drug.....I will continue to excercise and try to survive and get better, WITHOUT tramadol thank you......I hope everyone here has quit or is quitting this aweful drug, the sooner the better, get your real life back, fight for it...Think of Rocky and how hard he worked at improving...
Again , Happy New Year everyone!!

ps. Always remember there are guided self-hypnosis and subliminal tapes and mp3's out there that can help you, just google!!!

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by booba77, Dec 30, 2011
Denise-It is quiet.  Booba's still here.  I am totally exhausted-day 16 for me.  I am sleeping somewhat though, so that is exciting.  It is just blah-sooo tired and just feel sad and tired, tired and sad.  When will the damned sneezing end?  It seems to never let up.  I am trying to stay positive.  It is difficult though.  New Years will make it harder.  My least favorite holiday-never had a good one-ever.  But I'm changing it up this year.  Going to bed at 9 PM when my kid does.  To hell with New Years-I'm keeping it real in 2012, and just letting whatever comes out of my mouth come out.  After all the stuff with my brother, and watching my parents become haggard and despondent, I figure bring it on.  How bad can it get?  Let's just wait and see.  I'm ready.  What will be, will be.  I will share a fortune cookie message I received yesterday-
"Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be"  I like it.  I wish my mind would work that way!  I'm blaming it on the trams.  I need to excercise-that is the hardest part, because I know it would help.  How do you find time, when you are raising your kid, working full time, trying to help your parents.  I have no time.  I go to bed at 9 PM now, simply because I have zero energy.  I'm taking the B12 and vitamins and trying to get enough sleep, etc.  I still feel totally exhausted ALL THE TIME!!!  When does it end?  I am so ready for some energy.  At least I have the next 3 days off.  I am hoping to at least have enough energy to take down the Christmas tree and clean the house a little.  I hope you guys are hanging in there.  It has to get better right?  It just has to!

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by booba77, Dec 31, 2011
Wow. It is quiet around here!

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by legaljunky, Dec 31, 2011
Mighty quiet.  I got thru Christmas probably as well as I did before Tam- worn out but got it all done, at least the bare minimum done!  Did all my shopping on line, I hope I remember to keep Christmas simple from now on but I know I won't.

We are doing nothing for New Years except eating Lentil soup at midnight.  If you don't you'll run out of money!  I'm not sure where that tradition came from, maybe it's Polish.

Things are so delightfully quiet in my head but I know many of you are still fighting the Tramadevil and I haven't forgotten you. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Booba-  I'm praying you find your brother.  I have 2 children, and my son has always been a hard kid to mother, still is at 49, and my daughter was so easy, she raised herself and I just stayed out of her way. A few people have said to me, I guess you love your daughter more than your son.  That is just not so.  I love them equally, they each bring different wonderful things to my life.  My daughter is very independent, married with 2 kids I ADORE.  My son is still not married, would like to be, and is very artsy like me.  So we have that in common and when I visit him there is always an opening or some artsy thing for us to do.  He still does not "have it all together" and I guess he never will. Who cares!
I'm sure you are loved just as much.

Keep fighting, warriors, better days are coming!

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by Sarabie, Dec 31, 2011
Happy New Year to All of us !!! I wish with All my heart that 2012 will be the Best so far in our lives.  I know I'll do everything possible to start over and make it work.

Don' cry because you lost it. Smile because you had it. That'll be my motto for 2012.

Love, Susie

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by CJJ28, Dec 31, 2011
Day #6 no trams and day #22 no methadone. Just feeling really really really sad and depressed. This will be my first New Year's clean in over 6 yrs, at least that's something. Hope everyone has a Happy and Safe New Year's!

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by denised1982, Dec 31, 2011
cjj28- congratulations! it's a hard road, but it is going to be worth it. don't ever go back.

has anyone ever heard of the ibogaine treatment? it's illegal in the united states, you have to go to mexico to get the treatment, ibogaine comes from an african plant iboga, and it is an nmda antagonist, it is highly hallucinogenic and highly dissociative. it will reverse addictions to heroin, alcohol, or cocaine. it strips your opiate receptors and resets them to where it's like you have never touched drugs before. i watched a documentary film about it. It will make you trip your balls off, but this is something that needs to be highly researched. although it's a highly hallucinogenic plant, it's relatively safe. People think they have met God on this treatment, it's very introspective and it works as long as you dont go back to your old ways. I think it would be a good thing if you can't quit drugs, and you have been in and out of treatment, jail, and overdosed without dying. I think if you can't quit, that is something to look into, especially if there is no hope and your addiction has gone too far.

I was hurting really bad yesterday with my back and my leg. I wonder if it's my 30 day PAWS. I felt like I have been ran over, and all I wanted to do was sleep. I didn't sleep, I got up and did some things around the house. I'm tired of feeling lazy. I still feel kind of sick from my sinuses, but not like I have been. I was pretty miserable the beginning of this week. It is almost 30 days and I haven't sneezed in a day or two, but to answer anyone's question about when the sneezing is going to end, I have no idea! it's almost 30 days, and I'm still sneezing!

Happy New Year to everyone! I feel pretty confident that I wont touch tramadol ever again, so I am entering a new year with one less addiction. This year is the year.  I need to start working out, I am very much out of shape cardiovascular wise. I always have been. I love lifting weights and can lift them all day, but I'm a female, and I DO have a tendency to bulk up some. I think it's bred in my genetics. That and I eat gastronomical amounts of protein. I am a lover of red meat. I need to eat more fish and more vegetables. Oh, and stay away from my weaknesses of coke and mountain dew. That is an addiction in itself. I am more of a cokehead than a tramadolhead! Coke as in the beverage. I quit the real sh*t years ago. Since we are into addictions, how do I stop this maddness? Water tastes like crap. Watered down juice tastes like crap. I need to drink more water. I'll be p*ssing every 5 minutes, but I need more water.

I guess I need to quit smoking too. Augh. I guess for the new year my resolution is to be to kill myself all at once. lol.
I love you guys, everyone here is awesome, and it speaks very highly of everyone to admit that we have a problem and we are so accepting of each other. It shows that we care for ourselves and care for one another. I think we are a good bunch of people. If we stick together I wonder what else we can conquer?

Keep on fighting guys!
<3 Denise

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by Sarabie, Dec 31, 2011
Denise I also have a coke problem. I drink 5-6 cans a day. I don't even think it tastes that good anymore and it's really expensive here in Denmark. 15 dollars for a sixpack. I have quit coke in the past - had headache for a couple of days and drank club soda instead. Need to do that again.

Love susie

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by booba77, Dec 31, 2011
Y'all crack me up! I love coke the beverage too. It has to be out of a fountain tho. McDonalds has the best coke. Iboga you say? I will look it up. Sounds interesting.

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by DamTram, Dec 31, 2011
Susie and Denise -

I also was/am a coca-cola fiend.  You can start by first FORCING yourself to drink diet sodas (coke, cherry coke, root beer), and while you'll of course be angry that it's not the same, some part of the urge is fulfilled.  It takes time, but you really can get used to choosing a diet soda (ALL pop is full of chemicals for you, so at least you're cutting out the sugars) and EVERY TIME you choose diet over regular FEELS like a small victory!  Also, you'll see a difference.  I had a friend who loved Dr. Pepper and she lost 15lbs after switching to diet.  Eventually, the sugar cravings will stop and water will be mostly enough for you.  I bought a little diet root beer bottle last night, and I've barely touched it.  On special occasions (or really bad days), I let myself have a real coca-cola.  =)

Denise - Booba is reading the quitting smoking book that I recommended: The EasyWay to Quit Smoking, by Allen Carr.  By the end of the book, you never want to smoke again.  I only have a digital copy (like the insomnia book), or I would send it to you.  =(  Rainallday, who posted yesterday, decided to quit smoking after quitting tramadol, and the book helped him, too.  I, unfortunately, relapsed when I relapsed on tramadol.  They are linked, for me.  And now I have to quit, again.

CJJ - It's okay to be depressed!  As long as you're recognizing it for what it is (chemical warfare) and simultaneously giving yourself said high-fives for choosing LIFE!  I just had to remind myself 'Life hurts," a lot.  We tried to numb ourselves from it, and it caused us more pain.  Now we're dealing with the pain it caused AND the pain of life.  But life is also beautiful and wonderful, of course.  Just take a peek at your kids. =)

I was getting very frustrated today because I couldn't remember how I rang in 2010.  I remembered 2009 and 2011, but 2010 was a big black hole.  I decided the best way to figure out what I did for NYE 2010 was to go into my gmail chats.  OH, THE HORROR.  Apparently I spent the night doing nothing, possibly at my parents, because I couldn't get invited to any NYE parties.  I blamed myself for working too hard that fall/winter and not having any friends as a consequence.  So guess what I was doing?  Taking drugs.  Definitely ambien, and maybe tramadol (it sounded like).  Reading my words from two years ago was so sad - I was so depressed, so hopeless, and so self-pitying.  Today, I've been having trouble not getting out of bed and not being lazy.  Well, those chats woke me right up!  I was taking drugs and depressed out of my mind.  I'm not taking drugs (to self-medicate) and am tired and a little sad.  But I have come so far!  I'm not doing jack squat for NYE tonight, and I don't care!  

Anyway, my point is...for all those fighting the depression from coming off this, it is NOTHING like the anxiety and depression that you probably had before deciding to get off of it.  Today or tomorrow, I'm going to make a list of every things and person that I lost and burn it.  Then I'm going to make a list of everything that I'm taking with me into 2012 and I'm going to put it on my refrigerator.  That's all that really matters.  Keep moving forward.

Happy New Year to all!


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by denised1982, Dec 31, 2011
DamTram-- honey, don't even get me started on how irrational, crazy, stupid, depressed etc. I acted in new years (or anytime) past. I don't want to go back to those days. Im getting too old for that sh*t anyway... I regret some of it, but I forgive myself, and move on. As long as you learn from it, and move on, is all that matters. I'm a tard.. I thought NYE was New York Exchange at first... lol

I heard about  The Easy Way to Quit Smoking. I heard it was really good about making you never want to pick up a cigarette again. Yes and tramadol and cigarettes go hand in hand, like alcohol and any other drug that makes me feel euphoric.



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by Sarabie, Dec 31, 2011
NYE is over in Denmark now. It's 4 am and I'm in bed. I chose to stay home at my parents and just chill. I had the most wonderfull NYE last year with the love of my life and I'm pretty sure I would have become very emotional tonight if I had been out and drinking alcohol. But instead I feel good actually. Tomorrow Will be my last day of being lazy. I'll start my new life Monday. I've been off tram long enough to take on some tasks. First one Will be quitting All that coke. I feel very optimistic actually. 2012 will be a great year.

Damtram I'll switch to club soda. No sugar and no chemicals. But the lovely sparkles :-D

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by legaljunky, Jan 01, 2012
Sarabie-

YES!!  I used to drink diet coke all the time, and it had to be straight from the can.  I would go to have bone density scans and on the forms they asked if I drank Coke and how much.  And I had bone loss.  I got off it years ago and now my bone scans come up normal, I guess for my age.  My son is always saying , if you want to do 1 good thing for yourself, give up coke. When coke is made, it is heated to such high temperatures that it becomes a chemical and is worse for us than any other soda.  I drink coffee and my son has talked mi into using organic milk instead of Coffee Mate.  The other drink I like is filtered room temp water with a slice of lemon that's been in it for hours.

We did nothing this NYE except we ate our lentil soup.

I realize that if you are still in the throws of Tram WD, it's probably not time to take away your coke!  I never could handle more than 1 problem at a time.

Welcome CJJ28!  You have come to the right place.  I remember my painful, depressing time as I tapered off Tramadevil but it feels like it was years ago.  Stay with us, it's so so tough but so worth it. In the beginning, when my WD spiked, I took a sublingual B12, a magnesium and a cup of peppermint tea with honey and cayenne in it, got in bed and posted often.  It always helped a little.  You know you are not alone,  we want to be there for you as you go thru Tramahell and come out the other side.

I'm toying with the idea of totally giving up sugar.  It makes me so tired and achy (produces inflamation on the cellular level) and I feel so much better when I'm totally off it.  I was off it for about 2 weeks before Christmas and then I had some for dessert on Christmas day because I knew our last batch of company was about to leave.  And now I'm back in its clutches.  I tend toward low blood sugar and if I live long enough I know I will be diabetic. But it tastes so good!
This must be how it is for Tram warriors who get high on Tamadevil and crave it as they WD.  I never experienced that so I know I had an easier WD time than most.

Happy New Year, my best buddies!

Strength, love and perseverance!



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by ullr, Jan 02, 2012
Happy new year!
I am fine, hope you all are doing good!

Look at my tracker ; )


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by denised1982, Jan 02, 2012
congrats ullr! i cant wait to be at that point one day!

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by JULIUS23, Jan 02, 2012
HEY EVERYONE ITS GOOD TO SEE ALL OF YILE ARE STILL FIGHTING BC I KNW I AM... IM SO GLAD I GOT DIS FAR AND GOING INTO A NEW YEAR KNOWING DAT I AM CLEAN FROM TRAMADOL IS WONDERFUL... IVE BEEN ON VACATION FOR BOUT 2 TO 3 WEEKS.. JUS GOT HOME N I CUDNT WAIT TO SEE HOW YILE WAS DOING... HOPE ALL OF YILE HAD A WONDEFUL HOLIDAYS AND GOD BLEESSSSSS ALL YOU TRAMADOL WARRIORS INTO THE NEW YEAR.... STAY FOCUS... THE WAR CONTINUES!!!

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by legaljunky, Jan 03, 2012
Congrats, Ullr- 300 days. 300 good days in a row! That's a huge milestone. And congrats to all of you who have gotten thru the insanity of the holidays and emerged to life as usual- and clean!   I hate the pressure of the holidays but I love seeing all the family.

My husband went into the emergency room last Wed. with a heart rate of 230 BPM, and he is lucky to be alive.  When things like this happen, I go into denial, I'm calm and just keep my mind on the surface and don't think deep.  Long story short, he had an ablation and was home Sat morning and feeling fine.  This brought his kids back to see him over the past couple days and it has been quiet and I feel at peace with the world.

I feel like my tracker looks- Seagulls in the sky at sunrise, the beginning of 1 more beautiful day clean.

Strength and love!

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by booba77, Jan 03, 2012
You guys just make me feel better.  I can be in the worst mood, or just feel sulky, and I read your posts, and see your tickers, and it just gives me hope.  Thank you for being here-all of you.  

I am back at work today-it is my solace.  I can control the chaos here, and I like that!  I am sleeping pretty well for being 19 days clean.  My stomach has bouts of just-ugghh, but I think it was that fresh salsa I ate, or that burger king whopper.  Time to eat healthy.  Happy New Year everyone.  Oh-I am not the one reading the quitting smoking book.  Now that I am off of the trams, and have started the wellbutrin, I haven't smoked but maybe 4 cigarettes in the last 6 days.  I just don't want too.  They are gross.  I am still chewing the nicorette, but only like 3 pieces a day.  And it is too cold here to smoke anyway.  I wouldn't smoke in my house, and haven't for 10 years, and I never would now that I have a daughter, but it is too cold anyway.  My poor dog won't even sit on the porch with me it is so cold today.  But it should be 60 on Saturday.  Pneumonia weather.  Enough blabbing.  I am so proud of all of you.  I can't wait until my ticker gets to 300, or 100, or hell I would even be excited about 50 days.  I know it just takes time, and hey, I've got all the time the good lord will give me.  Thank you for being there for me everyone.

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by booba77, Jan 03, 2012
Never mind I am 20 days, not 19, whoooppeeee!

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by DamTram, Jan 03, 2012
Ullr - CONGRATULATIONS!  Although I'm sad that I relapsed, I'm so happy that I was able to see you hit 300 days!  I still remember when you went C/T.  Yeesh! =)

Booba - You, too!  Those 20 days went, fast!  You sound great.  I may have to check out this wellbutrin stuff...sorry I confused you about the smoking.

Legal - I'm so glad that your husband is okay!  That's wonderful that you were able to stay calm.  And thank you for continuing to post - your positivity is infectious.  =)  Good luck with the sugar!  Just make sure your body is getting the right 'sugars' to produce energy.

Denise - You crack me up!  How's the club soda?

I have a friend coming to visit from out of town from Friday to Tuesday - I'm so glad that I was able to be functional enough to have him!  In the summer, after my relapse and when I was trying to get off of the clonazepam and Seroquel too quickly, I could barely get up - let alone get out of the house.  He came to visit and snapped me into shape.  I'm glad he'll be able to see me way better, now!  

By Day 6, I'd started walking for at least 30 minutes.  Now, I've been running for 2 weeks.  I do it in intervals, and up to a total of 17 minutes of running (in chunks).  Unfortunately, so many years of NOT running since Cross Country has led me to develop shin splints.  They are dumb, and I hope they go away, soon...otherwise, it'll just be walking for me.  Which just isn't the same kind of release.  I know, I know, elliptical blah blah blah...but I will never go to a gym again.  The smells, the sounds, the lights, the machines...no.  I just love being outside, by myself, with music.  Anyone past Day 4 - I highly recommend starting walking/cardio as soon as possible.  You'll sleep better, sooner, and feel more confident emotionally.  You're also sweating out more of the tramademon, faster, so post-acute withdrawal is easier and faster.

I'm down to 0.5mg of clonazepam (still) and have not begun a Seroquel taper (still at 75mg).  Both, originally, for sleep.  I am very proud of coming down from 2-3mg of clonazepam, though!  This is the lowest amount of benzo that I've been on in almost a year.  I'm just trying to take things very easy, since my mood seems to be mostly stable.  I can't remember the last day I cried!  Or had a panic attack.  Sometimes I don't want to get out of bed, and just stay curled up in a ball...but I feel like it's more of a hangover from the clonazepam and Seroquel from the night before.  I'm trying to be kind and non-judgmental with myself, so I don't beat myself up if I just want to stay under the covers for awhile.  

I'm frustrated with some things that happened yesterday, and I only have a few days left to my self...so I'm having a Harry Potter marathon, today.  And trying to not feel badly for being a lazy bums.  =)

Fight on, Fighters!

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by booba77, Jan 03, 2012
Sometimes lazy just feels right. I like to curl up and watch Golden Girls or I Love Lucy! They always make me feel better.

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by tramsick, Jan 03, 2012
Hi Everyone! Haven't posted in awhile.  Glad to hear everyone is doing better and supporting one another as always.  Happy New Year!  Wishing you all the best in 2012.

DamTram, congrats on reducing your clonazepam!  I've been doing it too.  Down to .25/day.  I quit my antidepressant (lexapro).  There were just too many side effects and I'm really serotonin sensitive.  Trying to get pill free, and now that tram is out of my life for good, I think I can do it.  If we can kick tram, we can kick anything, right?

Look at my tracker!  It feels so good I could cry.


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by Sarabie, Jan 03, 2012
Hehe Damtram I'm the one with the club soda. And I'm doing great. Cut my coke down to half already.

Tramsick - I LOVE that you are happy again!!! 139 days is a huge accomplishment.



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by NoraTorious, Jan 04, 2012
Damtram!!! Oh, honey, I am so sorry for what you are going through. But I am glad you are on the right track again.

I haven't been around awhile, just trying to have a normal life and not fall off the wagon. In one day, it will be 365 days for me. A full year and no Tramadol. I have not craved it or desired it at all. But I have not been looking forward to this date the way one would think I would. A lot of scary memories are coming up for me. It has been a bit of a hard time because my Psych has been changing around my meds and it is screwing with my head some. She has prescribed benzos to me. And they do nothing. I mean, nothing. I might as well be taking a sugar pill. And I am in need of something to take the edge off while this day comes upon me, and my depression meds readjust.

There are a lot of new names here, and I wish you the best of luck in healing. Tramadol is a nasty little drug. There is nothing I can say nice about it. It ruined my life for over 4 years and I am glad for it to be gone. All of you at the beginning of your journey, know it gets better. Know it will eventually leave your system. And know you will eventually get sleep again. I did. Of course, I take a lot of meds to get sleep, but it does come to you.

Hang in there, all.

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by fightorfight, Jan 04, 2012
Happy New Year everybody!

I hope everyone is doing well as they continue to fight to get through some very rough times.   What a new years resolution huh?   One thing to remind yourself of, especially as the days get colder (but longer), is that beating Tram is one heck of a way to treat yourself better.    I wish nothing but the best to all the fighters here, and hope that things are going pretty well five days in to 2012.    

How is everyone doing?


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by JULIUS23, Jan 05, 2012
DAY 80...!!!!KEEP FIGHTING YOU GUYS ITS WORTH IT!!!HEY YOU GUYS I HOPE ALL OF YILE ARE HANGING IN THEIR WITH DIS DETOX AND IM SO GLAD I STUCK WITH IT.....KEEP FIGHTING... ITS WAR BABE!!! 80 DAYS CLEAN

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by legaljunky, Jan 05, 2012
I look at all your trackers, and mine, and I get so excited!  The pressure of the holidays is over and I just feel so happy.  After eating all the sugar, beginning on Dec 25, I got so achy and tired and I said ENOUGH!  Having been addicted to Tramadevil and remembering how it controlled my life and stole who I was during WD, I feel I want to look at sugar in the same way.  When I'm on sugar it saps my energy and wastes so much of my time.  No more. That's my New Years Resolution and it won't be one that I give up a few days down the road. I can find creative ways to make foods I like without sugar, it will be my new challenge.  I have known for years that I have low blood sugar as my insulin over reacts when I eat it and that is considered being prediabetic.  Eventually I would be diabetic so why not get off sugar before it happens?
I will eat fruits and get the sugars I need from other foods.  Inventing recipes for dessert is my new challenge!

My head is clear, my enthusiasm for my art is back, and I couldn't wait to carve a face in a small stone.  I did it yesterday!  

All of you who are still suffering under the Tramadevil-  Hang in there!  Fight!  Post so we can be there for you!  What I have today is better than I ever thought possible. I wondered if Tramadevil had done damage I could never get past, but no, I am myself, my whole self again.  What came instead is a new resolve to never let anything get in my way again.  Recovery is so powerful!

Perseverance, strength and much love!




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by DamTram, Jan 05, 2012
Just got back from the hematologist/oncologist.  I don't have leukemia?  I didn't even know that was a question.  He's worried about my kidneys.  My white blood cell and hemoglobin counts have been high for over a year.  Tramadol?  I don't know.  I wish I were feeling more strong and persevering, today.  Just more expensive ultrasounds and blood tests that I can't afford.  I just want to be healthy. =/  Sorry to be such a downer, today.  Everyone else's posts have been so happy and positive, I felt bad even writing something that didn't match.  But that's what it's here for, right?  

This is my second day after the 0.25mg clonazepam.  If I'm feeling this cruddy and panicked, I'm scared to go down to 0.  I was cold and burny, like during acute Tram w/d, and anxiety was high.  I can start to feel the, "Your life is a waste," thoughts, but I'm trying to remind myself it is probably situational AND chemical.  I took valerian and GABA, and they seemed to help a little...but made me sleepy.  I guess if I'm worse tomorrow, I'll go back up to 0.5mg.  I hate you, drugs.  I wonder if the end of the Seroquel taper will be even worse...

At least I'm not a total wreck, like on Tram!  Last time I saw the oncologist, I was sobbing to myself and wanting to die because he was 3 hours late to see me and I had final papers to write.  It's nice not crying, everywhere. =)

Huge congratulations to my buddy Nora on ONE YEAR!  We went through the early trenches together, last winter...but she stayed clean and I am SO proud of her!  Congrats to all of you who are feeling better, and thoughts of strength to those of you still fighting through the muck with me.  We will get out!

<3 <3 <3

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by legaljunky, Jan 05, 2012
DamTram- I felt out of place writing too positive a post when so many warriors, like you, are still stuck in the muck. I just read thru a few of your posts and you have a lot on your plate, getting off more than just Tram.  I'm praying for you to stay with us, keep fighting, you can beat this stuff.  I know I was still struggling at 27 days clean but it gets better and better. You are putting your body thru a lot of changes, it's good you are seeing a Dr.  I often wondered if I should have seen some kind of Dr. to get off Tram, and if I was doing more damage to myself by withdrawing using this forum alone as my guide.  But this is what I did and I'm fine.

For now I am doing great, but 120 day PAWS is in the back of my mind, if there is such a thing.  I feel great but I know I still need the support, structure, and the feeling that I'm not alone.  I'm no good when I'm only accountable to myself.  And if anyone tells me what to do, I WILL rebel.  This forum is perfect for me.

Hugs to all my fellow Tram warriors!



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by DamTram, Jan 05, 2012
I love you, Legal!  Thank you so much for being here, and don't EVER feel badly about writing positive posts!  You are helping to pull us out of the muck. =)  I'm not seeing the doc for tram withdrawal, but as a result of no doctors being able to figure out why blood has been so messed up for so long.  I'm finally getting ready to admit that smoking may be fully to blame...>.<  Who would've thought?

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by fightorfight, Jan 06, 2012
Hey DT,

Sorry you're having such a rough go of things.   Hopefully you're feeling better off of the Tramadol-- and I hope that you're taking your sweet time with the Klonopin.   Thats a tough one if you go too fast, and weaning down slowly will help that.   Not entirely, mind you, as I'm sure you're well aware, but enough to remain functional-- hell, even sociable as you return to school.   I'm sure you'll do fine as you go back.   Time is your friend here, especially now that you've gotten through the acutes of Tramadol.   Be as kind and gentle with yourself as you're able.

Smoking does a number of bad things, obviously, but one interesting issue-- especially for people who smoke frequently (I did, for a number of years as well) is just like other drugs/substances, your body compensates.   Since your body perceives that its not getting enough oxygen, it will increase the amount of red blood cells produced--- attempting to balance out a lack of good air.    While that sounds good, its also the reason you run in to a number of problems because of this response:   Your immune system will be notched down (you can only produce so many blood cells at one go), your circulatory system works extra hard to oxygenate your body and brain.    Causing problems with your hair, skin, nails-- which also adapt to the increase in red blood cell count.     My friend, who still smokes, has similar problems with his liver--- he's a 2 pack a day guy.   I certainly don't want to demonize anyone who smokes-- I've been through it-- but have seen its eventuation with my dad.  Apologize for the thesis, school...yikes.  One beast at a time DT, and I hope that you feel better soon.

Some good news,  your seroquel dose is low enough for it to only be a strong antihistamine.   Of all the things you're trying to stop--- it'll be the easiest whenever you're ready.    In fact, I probably had more rebound insomnia coming off Ambien for 3 years, than Seroquel for 1.   It'll be alright, I promise.

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by DamTram, Jan 06, 2012
FoF - Thank you SO much!  The hematologist was trying to explain the oxygenation of the blood, but you did a much better job.  Seriously.  And I'm so glad to hear that about the Seroquel!  I'm feeling lots better today, so hopefully I'll stabilize on the 0.25mg Klonopin, soon.  Your words and knowledge are extremely encouraging, especially regarding being sociable at school.  =)  It's so hard going slowly and fighting one demon at a time (as you know, of course), when you just want to be free of all things.  Thank you, again, for your knowledge and encouragement.  I hope you are doing well, out East!

The hepatologist said that if I keep it up with the exercise, my liver will recover.  I only hope I can keep it up once the semester starts!  Goodness knows it helps with sleep...

Hoping everyone out there is having a great day.  Thank goodness for this forum! =)

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by legaljunky, Jan 08, 2012
I'm still so happy!  I have a throat/head cold that just does not want to go away, but it is not slowing me down and I don't think it's Tramaflu.  So nice to have a normal problem!  And I'm off sugar and Coffee Mate so no arthritis pain and my thinking is so clear  I even got out my book Mac for Dummies book and will attempt to do more than Ebay, forum and email with it.

It is ridiculously warm for Jan in NJ so we walked the beach again yesterday- so beautiful, sunny and 71 degrees.

I feel so good and I want this for all of you!  I've had lots of lengthy, painful, awful medical problems in my life and have gotten thru them even tho I didn't know if it was possible when I was in the middle of them.  Tramadol was the latest beast, and I beat it.  So can you!

I know how tough it is.  Just keep fighting temptation 1 day at a time.  The days add up!  I'm now making plans to do things I haven't dreamed of since I began Tramadevil.  Like going into NY to MOMA to see the art I love, haven't been there in a couple years!  And my husband had a heart crisis 11 days ago, got it fixed in the hospital, and is feeling great again.

Thank you all for being there for me,  you got me thru this hell and I want you to have my joy too.

I'm sending you love, perseverance and strength, 1 day at a time, even when it looks like nothing is worth the hell you are in today.  Just keep going.  You'll get thru to the other side where life is beautiful!

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by turkeytrotter, Jan 08, 2012
Hey thought I'd come by and say Happy New Year to yall! It's been 51 days for me, thats the good news. The bad news is my pain has returned.

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by DamTram, Jan 08, 2012
It is very quiet, here...I hope everyone is ok!  I had to go back up to 0.5mg clonazepam because I had too much anxiety, aching, and ickiness while my friend was visiting.  I'm hoping to try every other day, 0.25mg or 0.5mg, to stabilize before going fully back to 0.25mg.  I took an Allegra 24-hour two nights ago for allergies, and I felt like I was back in acute withdrawal the whole day.  YUCK!  

I think I'm at Day 30.  Hurray for survival!  Thinking of all of you.



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by DamTram, Jan 08, 2012
Turkey, your hip pain??  What does your doctor think you should do?

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by turkeytrotter, Jan 08, 2012
back and hip pain and doc said I can take Tylenol which doesn't do anything. Advil works better but he doesn't want me taking that often. We're still not clear as to what is causing the pain so till its figured out, I'm either stuck tolerating the pain or being on pain meds which I refuse to do.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 09, 2012
Turkey, if you are looking for something to help your pain, I got a couple that work for me. Arnica (which is homeopathic). Hot baths or showers with mineral salts. The last one is damn cool. It's made from cobra venom. Cobroxin. This stuff works. It's a gel that is topical and it is out of this world. Venom effects the CNS. So a little bit of venom will kill the pain. I tell you this because I suffer from chronic pain as well. It 's not that bad now. I walk, do floor exercises, and I have had a little conversation with my pain. I told it that it is not the boss of me, and I am no longer coddling or favoring that arm or shoulder. I wish you a life less painful.

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by mikatr, Jan 10, 2012
Not sure if this will get to anyone out there but I could sure use some encouragement.  My story...have always had some mild anxiety and for years have taken a small dose of paxil and did well.  I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia and have a bad back and so began the trying of meds to help with the pain.  I started with Savella and immediately had hallucinations so stopped that.  I then was put on Lyrica, started at 50 mg and went up to 200 mg.  Was given 10 mg of Zolpidem to stop the muscle spasms and help me to go to sleep.   I also was switched to Cymbalta 60 mg and progressed up to 90 mg. and taken off Paxil.   Was also given tramadol for pain and could take that as needed 50 mg x3 per day and lastly Tizanadine as needed 2 mg x3 per day.
Months back I started having a tingling in my lips and probably around 6 times ended up with swollen lips.  I went to the Urgent Care and was given prednisone and also went to my Neurologist and Rheumatologist was given prednisone and they said it could be stress and to see a Psychiatrist.  I felt different and felt like it was reactions to all these meds so with their knowledge I began the withdrawel dance.  I was down to 100 mg Lyrica and 60 mg Cymbalta when I had a weird thing happen around florescent lights which lasted several minutes, it was like a camera flash going off in my face over and over again and it freaked me out and was asking for help but stayed fully aware of everything.  Several days later I felt like I was having a heart attack and went into ER, my blood pressure was up over the sky but my heart was fine, they took me off Lyrica cold turkey, that was November 20.  BAD withdrawels.  After a few weeks I still felt bad so per the Neurolgist I went off Cymbalta, was weaned from 60 to 30 to 0 mg in just a few days and put back on Paxil 10 mg.  BAD withdrawels, that was December 15.  Still felt bad and was unsure if it was from the remaining drugs so on my own I stopped taking the Tizanadine and Tramadol cold turkey, BAD withdrawels, that was on December 30. I have experienced everything from brain zaps, throwing up, panic attacks, anxiety, hallucinations...you name it and today is day 10 with everything gone except the Paxil 10 mg and the Zolpidem which I tried to cut in half and couldn't sleep so went back up to 10 mg.  I am scared, tonight I am going to talk to a counselor to make sure I am not going crazy and that I am on the right track.  Any advice out there for me?  

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by legaljunky, Jan 10, 2012
Welcome mikatr-  Your history is unlike mine except for many of the withdrawal symptoms you describe on Dec 30. I did not have brain zaps, panic attacks or hallucinations, but many other Tram warriors do. I did have trouble sleeping, extreme fatigue, intense nightmares and talked in my sleep, depression, restless leg syndrome, hot flashes, and lots of other little things!    I did a slow taper from 200 mg a day and It was tough.  I got so much support here from other Tram warriors who helped me thru it.  So many know much more than I do and I'm sure you'll be hearing from them soon. Detox was slow and tough but well worth the fight.
You are not going crazy but I remember thinking I was, how else could I be experiencing these bizarre things?  We're here to tell you you're not crazy and you will get through this just like us and we will help you!

Love and strength!

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by mikatr, Jan 10, 2012
Thankyou for your response and am looking forward to talking to more of you out there.  I have also experienced some of the above mentioned withdrawels and have a heart that is ready to beat out of my chest today.  Thinking I should consider some Xanax to help calm me down a little but don't want to go backwards after all this hard work.  Is that advisable?  


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by denised1982, Jan 10, 2012
turkeytrotter--- you should definitely try a T.E.N.S. unit if you can. It's drug free. It feels great!

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by Sarabie, Jan 10, 2012
Hi Mikatr and welcome on board :-)

You are definately on the right track!!!! It stinks but it's so worth it in the end. I went CT from a five year long use/abuse o tramadol. I peeked at 24 pills a day and one day I finally faced the fact that I was addicted, that everything that went wrong in my life was somehow related to tram. I had a Real "trambrain". Messed everything up and convinced myself that it was ok. And everytime the little voice called concience tried telling me things weren't ok, I just popped some more tram. But as mentioned before, I woke up. Decided to quit on the spot and tapered for 5 days. From 24 to 0. Then CT. I was however extremely lucky. Had no brainzaps, nor depression or insomnia. But I was really sick for a few days. And the following weeks i was very weak. I guess it took me about six weeks untill I was back on full strengh.

Apart from that. My X has fibromyalgia and all types of pain medicin made the pain worse. Because they consist mainly of acids and people with fibromyalgia are allergic to acids (cause your muscles produces way too much of it).  I know many people with fibromyalgia and not one of them are ready to drop their meds. My X is now back to work fulltime while three years ago he was up for early retirement. But hé quit the meds and became vegetarian (Meat also consists of acids) and the doctor says that the fibromyalgia is almost gone. So my advice to you is to quit the pain meds and Meat and see what happens for awhile.

Again, you are definately on the right track!!! Stay with us and post as much as you want. We All know the need to tell someone how we feel while going through a taper or CT.

Love, Susie

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by DamTram, Jan 10, 2012
Mikatr - Welcome!

I'm hoping that FightorFight comes on, soon, to weigh in on what I'm about to say.  He's the legitimate medical person, around here these days.  But I do know a bit.

Going down too quickly on Cymbalta or Effexor yields the worst brain zaps.  If I understood you correctly, that happened on December 15.  Had you had brain zaps since then, or only since stopping the Tramadol?  SNRI's absolutely have to be tapered slowly, so I'm concerned that if the doctors ABSOLUTELY had to take you off so quickly that they didn't give you anything to ease the Discontinuation Syndrome (google it).  Lyrica, as well, is to be tapered...although it can be quicker.  How long were you on the Tramadol?  You weren't on a high dose, but your neurochemicals are so out of whack, I can see why stopping it has magnified your continued suffering from all of the other cold turkeys/quick tapers.  You were on a LOT of meds that should not be discontinued abruptly, for exactly the symptoms that you are now experiencing.  

Most of us on this forum have handled our beasts one at a time, Tramadol being the one that brought us here.  I am extremely concerned by the severity of your current symptoms - have you been to the ER for these yet?  If your heart is beating out of your chest and you're also hallucinating, I would hope that you would head to the hospital or doctor, immediately.  I know it's scary that they might put you on something to help straighten out your chemicals, but you do not want to do irreparable damage to your neurotransmitter systems.  

I know you were going to see a counselor - I hope it went well.  I also hope that you seek medical attention given the length of time and the severity of your suffering.  This is not just tramadol withdrawl, but several other withdrawals all compounded together.  Rather than trying to ease the panic/anxiety with Xanax yourself, go head to the doctor and make sure that's all you need.

Sending you strength, Mikatr.

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by DamTram, Jan 10, 2012
LET ME TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED TO ME.

I'm not sure if I mentioned, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't, that Walgreens will no longer accept Anthem Blue Cross insurance.  I was absolutely in love with my pharmacists at Walgreens, but learned that I could no longer go there after January 1, 2012.  Why?  Because LOS ANGELES Anthem Blue Cross has a pharmacy benefit manager in ST. LOUIS who could not settle with Walgreens about a fair percentage.  I knew things were going to be bad, given that CVS in LA are the most inhumane establishments around...but I didn't realize HOW bad.

I thought that I had enough Seroquel to get through last night.  I was out of town three nights ago, so didn't realize that there was only ONE Seroquel left until Sunday.  It was annoying, since I had a friend staying with me until this morning, but I figured I would take it to my school pharmacy in the morning and have it by the afternoon, as I had 2 stated refills left on it.  If I could've gone to Walgreens, there would've been no problem.

But there were so many problems.  My school pharmacy went through the whole transfer process and then said, 'Transfers take 1 to 2 days'.  I said, 'WHAT!  This is an anti-psychotic med!  And I'm out!' They said, 'Sorry'.

I begrudgingly looked up the CVS closest to my house and they took all of the information and assured me (it was 8:45am) that the Seroquel would be ready by the evening.  At 5:45, I called to ask if it was ready.  I was put on hold for 10 minutes, and then hung up on.  Then when I called back, I was told that I was at the end of the queue of 3 people and was put on hold for another 10 minutes.  They finally came on and told me that they had it, but it hadn't been filled and would be ready in an hour.  After 7pm, I show up at CVS, wait in their insanely long lines (where are all the Walgreens customers to go?), get to the front, and the girl tells me she has no idea what I'm talking about and told me she couldn't help me if I didn't know the name of the person with whom I'd spoken on the phone.  WHAT???  I was so tired (I was going on a 12 hour day, at that point).  She told me to go to the back of the Drop Off line, because she was just the check-out.  There were 8 people in the Drop Off line!  I asked her if there were any other pharmacies that accept Anthem.  She said Rite Aid.

I call my nearest Rite Aid and they are so sweet and accommodating, but tell me the transfer would be faster if I had the script number.  I didn't have the bottle on me (I thought I was PICKING UP my script!), so my friend and I raced home and I called Rite Aid.  They told me they'd call me back.  When they did, they told me WALGREENS HAD ALREADY CLOSED THE PRESCRIPTION OUT and CVS is the only one that can fill it, now!  I spent the next 30 minutes on hold with CVS, just to have the pharmacist say she'd call Walgreens and call me back.

She never did.  At 3am, I called CVS when I woke up panicked (they are 24-hour), and the guy there said that there's no record of it and I'll have to have my doctor call in a new prescription.

My psychiatrist from home had knee surgery in early December, and told me he'd called me when he'd recovered.  I'm scared that there were complications and he did not make it (I am serious), and I'm too scared to call and find out.

My psychiatrist here won't refill until you see her for another follow-up, but there is a month-long wait.

I HATE BIG PHARM!  Who allows someone to, against their will, go COLD TURKEY ON AN ANTI-PSYCHOTIC?

Also at 3am, I called my father (a doctor) and begged him to call in the script (he is against ALL psychotropic medications, but I was desperate).  To Rite Aid, of course.  My mother and I went to pick it up this afternoon (my friend was gone, our last night together having been ruined by CVS's incompetence), and Rite Aid was SO nice and SO quick and so very competent.  

Needless to say, this completely ruined my clonazepam taper, and I had to take 1mg at bedtime last night to ease the withdrawal symptoms that were starting...and another 1mg at 3am when I was panicking.  I'm taking 1mg tonight, and hoping I can return to the 0.5mg, soon.  

I will say that waking up after 25mg of Seroquel instead of 75mg was WAY easier and I was extremely productive today.  I'm hoping that I can start that taper soon, since I think that drug is most definitely doing more harm than good.  One beast at a time!

Thanks for listening to my drug rant.  

>.<

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by legaljunky, Jan 11, 2012
DamTram-  Been there done that!  But my situation wasn't as urgent as yours.  When we moved here about 9 years ago we found an independent pharmacy because we had Lyme disease and were often prescribed meds that were not used in the ordinary way.  For instance, I was on 1 med I used in an IV every day but it was cheaper to buy vials normally used for IM shots and we needed a pharmacist who would be familiar with us and go along with all this stuff.  There came a day when they could not get what I needed so I decided to take the script to Rite Aid because they were a bigger operation and if 1 store didn't have it, they could get it from another Rite Aid.  That's what happened and they were nicer people to deal with.
After finally feeling wonderful, I had a bad day yesterday- couldn't quite think straight and very tired and slept a lot.  I guess I might be having 120 day PAWS?  I hope that's what it is and it will go away soon, I have stuff to do!

Better days are coming!

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by mikatr, Jan 11, 2012
Thank you DamTram for your concern and yes the counselor pretty much said the same thing, to much and to fast and basically it has sucked everything out of my brain.  She wants me to see a psychiatrist right away and is working on getting me in so he can help me get everything balanced, feels it is withdrawels.  I feel a little relieved and I think if I look back from a week ago that I am beginning to settle a little.  The brain zaps started after the Lyrica withdrawel and came on strong again with the Cymbalta and the Tramadol stoppage and are easing up a little. Was checked in ER before I went OFF anything because I thought I was having a heart attack along with 1/2 dozen previous episodes of swollen and tingly lips. That is why I went off it all because I think I was having allergic reactions including the flashing camera light episode, this all happened before I went off anything although had started reducing some per the Dr.   Now all this other stuff happening so seems to be all to do with the devil drugs first an allergic reaction and now withdrawels.  I am trying not to self diagnose anymore as am realizing this is something to not mess with.  What do you mean by irreparable damage to your neurotransmitter system?  

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by DamTram, Jan 11, 2012
I don't have any references or citations, but I had read in the past that certain medications (e.g. benzos, anti-psychotics [like the Seroquel I'm on], snri's) when stopped abruptly can lead to a permanent lingering of certain withdrawal symptoms because of the unrelieved trauma to the neurotransmitter systems.  I've also read posts by people who stopped some SNRI's abruptly who were having lingering brain zaps, etc. a year after they had stopped the medication.  I am not a doctor, nor have I found that the psychiatrists that I've seen are very well-versed in the psychodynamic effects of anti-depressants, etc.  I just know that when I've stopped Cymbalta or Effexor or Lyrica abruptly, the withdrawal symptoms were severe and did not improve with time.  Every time, I've had to resume the medication and taper down slowly.  This gives your neurotransmitter systems the time and chemicals to adjust so that they can start to function on their own, again.  I'm really glad that you'll see a psychiatrist soon, and I hope that s/he will be able to help your chemicals continue to settle.  If your symptoms get worse before then, though, please go the ER for immediate care.  The drugs are devilish, but part of them being devilish is that you HAVE to taper off of them.  Keeping yourself going through multiple cold turkey withdrawals will only enhance their devilish effects on you.  Please keep letting us know what's happening and how you're doing!

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by DamTram, Jan 11, 2012
Legal, I'm sorry you had a similar situation.  I can't remember the last time I was so angry.  I hope that you're feeling better; I'm sorry that the 120 PAWS may be upon you.  I know the 30 day ones had me begging for mercy!  Congratulations on being on your last set of PAWS, though!! =)

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by legaljunky, Jan 11, 2012
DamTram- That was my last set of PAWS?  Yippee!!  It only lasted about 1 1/2 days!  Am I home free?  I think so!
I am so grateful to Emily and all of you who went thru and are going thru this with me.  I couldn't have done it alone and I'm sending you love and strength, just keep going!
And where is everybody?  It seems we have lost a lot of warriors after the holidays.  I hope you are all OK.

I feel so good and you will too.  Keep fighting, you can beat Tramadevil!

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by EmilyPost, Jan 11, 2012
this thread is closed

please go to ....

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/335374/Tramadol--Ultram-Recovery-Room-Part-51

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