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Apr 02, 2012 - 76 comments
So DF brother got back with his ex GF, mother of his son, last August. While DF and I were up in Fresno last September helping her move I found out she was going through an abortion. I was like yeah ok whatever cuz I did not know her well. Now she is almost 25 and has three kids. In which the oldest is almost 5 and only he is my BIL only biological. Well now I was asked to watch the kids this coming Tuesday and I said yeah thinking she had a job interview. Nope I find out it is for her to go have yet another abortion. The worst part is I found out she is 19 weeks! I guess there is some clinic here in Long Beach that will do abortions up to 20 weeks even though past 12 is illegal here in California. I'm not sure she even know exactly what they are going to do. I say this because they are going to make her give birth. Yet idk how to bring anything up to her because I don't think she knows that I know. Does anyone have any advice???
Sadly the only thing that worked for one my friends was having a watch an abortion procedure and show her stories of people who had them done but the abortion didn't work and the child was born deformed with disabilities. It helped her to decide against it. It was harsh but it worked for her. I would suggest just talking to her about it. It makes me so sad when people have abortions. Good luck. It definitely isn't an easy topic to approach. I really don't see how an abortion performed that far into the pregnancy is considered legal if it is illegal in the state past week 12.
It is not legal so these places do it in an under the table way. It just makes me so sad she is willing to do this. I'm sure she is able to feel movement by now and yet they want to kill this innocent baby. I think it's more of what my BIL wants and not her to be honest. They are going to make her deliver the baby but when only the head is out the stab it in the head and suck the brains out!
Oh my God please tell me that is not how they do it. I am so troubled by this having one is okay because I am pro-choice,however I believe that far into the pregnancy is just disgusting, unfair, and an extreme case of cruelty. I read this not wanting to be judgementa until you mention how they do it when you are that far into the pregnancy. I should of not read this sitting here waiting for my ultrasound I mean I felt movements way before this poin so it makes me really sad. I would talk to her about the issue
this is to much for me to hear or beleive a woman would do this at 19 weeks
I am not against abortion in the right circumstances but that far along is just rediculous - it's just outright murder! Perhaps you need to to talk to her about pregnancy prevention so she doesn't keep using abortion as birth control. Once is a mistake but twice in a year, come on!
Actually in California abortion is legal until viability which is 24 weeks. After 20 weeks is a partial birth abortion and so most of the time they don't perform them at clinics because it's basic labor and delivery which is usually more than a clinic is prepared to handle. Sometimes depending on the person 19 weeks is already partial birth style because of the fetus growth.
I am pro-choice (and everyone has a limit where they feel abortion should be performed) but I am now almost 25 weeks pregnant with my first pregnancy and I don't understand how ANYONE could abort a child they can feel moving and at 19 weeks it's almost guaranteed she can feel it. It's pretty ridiculous that you'd go through that.
Do you know if there was an issue with the child based on genetic testing or ultrasound findings? Because i know that most people that have 2nd trimester abortions have something wrong with the child that they feasibly can't care for when the child is born OR the child itself won't live a long life after birth.
I am so sorry that you have to be involved in this. I would be morally against it and probably wouldn't help at all if i were in your shoes. People can do what they want but we don't need to make it easier for them.
I am pro-choice (and everyone has a limit where they feel abortion should be performed) but I am now almost 25 weeks pregnant with my first pregnancy and I don't understand how ANYONE could abort a child they can feel moving and at 19 weeks it's almost guaranteed she can feel it. It's pretty ridiculous that you'd go through that.
Do you know if there was an issue with the child based on genetic testing or ultrasound findings? Because i know that most people that have 2nd trimester abortions have something wrong with the child that they feasibly can't care for when the child is born OR the child itself won't live a long life after birth.
I am so sorry that you have to be involved in this. I would be morally against it and probably wouldn't help at all if i were in your shoes. People can do what they want but we don't need to make it easier for them.
just ring her up and tell her, her baby will most likely be born alive because she has had children before and then placed in a kidney dish to die by his/herself, if you cant talk to her talk to her partner and let him know what is going to happen, she will also go thru labour, as well, her cervix wont just magically open so she will be in for that as well.....
As far as I know there is nothing wrong with the baby. I don't even think she has been to the doctor for prenatal care. Just she went to a planned parenthood last week and when they did an ultrasound it showed she was to far a long for them to do anything. Which is why they are sending her to some place in Long Beach. I hate that I'm involved in this because I don't think it's right. From what I know they just don't want the baby!
they should adopt the baby out then, and use damn protection!
That is just so sad then. I am sorry you have to be involved. boo for irresponsible people!
My BIL is not an easy person to talk to. I think he wants the abortion more then she does. He says they waited so long because her medi-cal was not active sooner. I just spoke to her and she says she is going to be asleep when they "suck" the baby out! I vote they use adoption not abortion!
Thats just crazy! I havent heard of a women doing that at 19 wks! Man its sad that a woman can do that when there are so many woman trying to concieve and get preggers
There is a tape out there of a live abortion maybe she should look at it ...This is a baby we are talking about a living human being ........
This is a video of a woman who when she was in her mothers womb the mother went in for an abortion. it didn't work. She didn't die during the abortion and the doctor who was to finish her off, kill her, was late, so she survived and now as an adult she is on a mission.
She is very interesting speaker and has things to say that might change everyones mind about abortion. on the side bar of this tube video you will see more videos of what she says. Very interesting and i would suggest all the woman and men here who are pro choice should watch this too. Maybe your friend will change her mind if you send her this. Good luck to you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPF1FhCMPuQ
She is very interesting speaker and has things to say that might change everyones mind about abortion. on the side bar of this tube video you will see more videos of what she says. Very interesting and i would suggest all the woman and men here who are pro choice should watch this too. Maybe your friend will change her mind if you send her this. Good luck to you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPF1FhCMPuQ
2nd part -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Coe10P0uv7o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Coe10P0uv7o&feature=related
And I guess something to remember or think about,,,,, a woman says 'woman's rights,' but the unborn, no one can speak for him/her, his rights. but here we NOW hear the voice of the unborn baby from the womb because this child survived abortion and is now an adult and can speak for the unborn. please talk to this girl before she aborts this helpless baby.
Well I talked as much as I could but she is off to the abortion clinic as I type this...if I had the means to I would take on the baby!
Well you did all you could, thats all you can do.
Please watch the video when you get time and hear from a baby who survived an abortion, now an adult. She can be the voice of all children who have been aborted as this is what all these poor children would say IF their abortion was botched and they lived...
Please watch the video when you get time and hear from a baby who survived an abortion, now an adult. She can be the voice of all children who have been aborted as this is what all these poor children would say IF their abortion was botched and they lived...
I watched part 1 and began to cry. I'm not sure how they are doing hers but she went today and has to go back tomorrow for part 2. I just don't understand how she could be willing to go through with it. When they were here to drop off the kids you could tell she was pregnant. I am pro choice but only in certain ways like if the baby is a product of rape.
Thank you for sending me the video and I will for sure share it with friends. I'm sure at 19 weeks she is to far to do it like an D&C. After having 2 losses with DF and almost loosing our daughter it's so hard to know she is doing this. Why make a baby to just kill him/her? I just wish I could of helped the baby!
You're very welcome and I am glad to hear that you will share the video with your friends. I didn't doubt that, I knew you would want to get the word out about the video once you saw it.
You're a young mother and women will listen to you, and out of curiosity they will watch the video once you tell them how it affected you..
You might just save a baby someday just by sharing this video and changing the mind of how someone might view abortion.
I've always been pro life, but I think if I was pro choice, after watching this video I would have had to change my belief and become pro life.
And Yes after what you have endured, I know it must have been very difficult knowing your SIL was aborting.
Its very sad so many innocent babies aborted as a means of birth control, its horrific.
Take good care..
You're a young mother and women will listen to you, and out of curiosity they will watch the video once you tell them how it affected you..
You might just save a baby someday just by sharing this video and changing the mind of how someone might view abortion.
I've always been pro life, but I think if I was pro choice, after watching this video I would have had to change my belief and become pro life.
And Yes after what you have endured, I know it must have been very difficult knowing your SIL was aborting.
Its very sad so many innocent babies aborted as a means of birth control, its horrific.
Take good care..
Good post lotsastuff ....the truth
Amen to that. I haven't seen the video but maybe they should show it in high schools. To maybe something like that should be shown in high school. I think ALL abortion is wrong, no I know all abortion is wrong morally anyway and because terrible life lasting mistakes like this do happen. Just how I feel about. Late abortion, I would hate to be this lady concious the rest of her life, if she has one. Very SAD
I am 100% pro choice, but even I cannot understand the thought process behind having a late term abortion. Here, the only time abortions are allowed that far along is when the mother's life is in danger, or the child has a chromonsomnal abnormality. Even with the latter, 20 weeks is the cut off. And I will also admit, this is very difficult to hear.
I am pro choice.... Chose to be responsible or have the choice of adoption. (obviously with exceptions for rape/incest cases)
I would gladly adopt that baby.
This is madness.
I would gladly adopt that baby.
This is madness.
margypops, thank you, but did you watch the video yet? Please do so and pass it on, thanks.
aheart, they would never show that video in schools because its pro life. they feel passing out condoms or putting condoms on banana's in health class is doing their part in preventing pregnancies. And the biggest factor is this lady talks of her wonderful savior Jesus Christ and that don't go over well in public, so even if for that reason alone it would not be shown in schools.. thanks for watching the video - please pass it along to your friends and ask them to show it to high school kids and adults too..
adgal, when you say you are 100% pro choice, does that mean you would have an abortion or do you mean you personally wouldn't but would feel you would not stand in the way of other "woman's' rights" as they say? And also did you watch the video? Because as I mentioned before, we cannot hear from these innocent babies, how they feel about being terminated, how they feel with having no rights. But NOW WE HAVE HEARD from a baby who was to be terminated. So my second question to you,after watching that video do you feel any differently towards being 100% pro choice. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
moma cher, I ask you the same questions I asked adgal. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
And also guys, this woman was born with Cerabral Palsy due to getting no oxygen as the saline solution was being ingested. Some women say they don't believe in abortion BUT IF they knew the baby had health problems they WOULD in that case abort. Well this lady has health problems if you view the CP as being a handicap that you wouldn't want your child to live with. Yet she LOVES life obviously. SHE doesn't view her health problem as a reason to kill her. She even mentions are the 'strong' supposed to dominate the 'weak." (I don't remember her exact words, please view the tape.)
Thank you all for your opinions and Dolphin thanks for allowing this conversation in your journal. These conversations need to take place I believe and though opposing views in this journal, it is good to see no one lashes out and all remain civil on both sides of the fence..
Have a nice day ladies.
aheart, they would never show that video in schools because its pro life. they feel passing out condoms or putting condoms on banana's in health class is doing their part in preventing pregnancies. And the biggest factor is this lady talks of her wonderful savior Jesus Christ and that don't go over well in public, so even if for that reason alone it would not be shown in schools.. thanks for watching the video - please pass it along to your friends and ask them to show it to high school kids and adults too..
adgal, when you say you are 100% pro choice, does that mean you would have an abortion or do you mean you personally wouldn't but would feel you would not stand in the way of other "woman's' rights" as they say? And also did you watch the video? Because as I mentioned before, we cannot hear from these innocent babies, how they feel about being terminated, how they feel with having no rights. But NOW WE HAVE HEARD from a baby who was to be terminated. So my second question to you,after watching that video do you feel any differently towards being 100% pro choice. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
moma cher, I ask you the same questions I asked adgal. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
And also guys, this woman was born with Cerabral Palsy due to getting no oxygen as the saline solution was being ingested. Some women say they don't believe in abortion BUT IF they knew the baby had health problems they WOULD in that case abort. Well this lady has health problems if you view the CP as being a handicap that you wouldn't want your child to live with. Yet she LOVES life obviously. SHE doesn't view her health problem as a reason to kill her. She even mentions are the 'strong' supposed to dominate the 'weak." (I don't remember her exact words, please view the tape.)
Thank you all for your opinions and Dolphin thanks for allowing this conversation in your journal. These conversations need to take place I believe and though opposing views in this journal, it is good to see no one lashes out and all remain civil on both sides of the fence..
Have a nice day ladies.
@mom cher - you said:"I am pro choice.... Chose to be responsible or have the choice of adoption. (obviously with exceptions for rape/incest cases) "
Sorry i mis interpreted your post. I see you ARE pro life.
I read "pro choice" and my mind paused:) its early here, so my brain isn't awake yet :)
Sorry i mis interpreted your post. I see you ARE pro life.
I read "pro choice" and my mind paused:) its early here, so my brain isn't awake yet :)
So sad. I'm pro choice and as a woman who has tried and failed to have another child, it makes me cry to know that others are throwing that chance away. I feel that if there is a human life at 19 weeks, there is a human life at conception. All the rest is just legal wording to make it ok. So sad. I'm glad you tried, I think I would've done the same in your shoes.
@mjmom69 .. yes it is very upsetting what this young lady has done. And I am very sorry to hear that you want to have another child yet this has not happened, very sorry to hear your pain and I hope you are able to conceive again.
I'm a little confused by what you said though in that you said you are pro choice. But also said that you feel there is human life at 19 weeks, there is human life at conception. I TOTALLY AGREE. But what I don't understand is if you believe that, then why are you pro choice? For the same reasons that I agree with you concerning conception, that reason make me pro life.... thanks in advance for your reply.. have a nice day.
I'm a little confused by what you said though in that you said you are pro choice. But also said that you feel there is human life at 19 weeks, there is human life at conception. I TOTALLY AGREE. But what I don't understand is if you believe that, then why are you pro choice? For the same reasons that I agree with you concerning conception, that reason make me pro life.... thanks in advance for your reply.. have a nice day.
@ lotsastuff I'm honored to have this conversation in my journal. I'm so glad it has stayed calm and no fighting. If anyone can lay down and make a baby then they need to raise that baby. Except for in cases of rape or incest. If I can do it do can others, is how I see it. As I found myself pregnant at 15 and by 18 I was a single mom to my son. I was then raped at a party at 18 and became pregnant from it. I thought abortion but did not have $600, so I chose to carry the pregnancy and adoption. Then he surprised me and was born at 33w5d, which landed him a 31 NICU stay. Once seeing him I knew he was given to me for a reason and I could not turn my back on him. In which he is now a happy 5 year old boy. I then met my wonderful DF in 2009 and after 2 losses we have been blessed with our baby girl. I could say this 500 times abortion is not both control and it never will be.
@Dolphin..wonderful testimony you have to how a young woman can make it through trials and as you said others can make it too when they find themselves in similar situations. your testimony can bring strength to someone who feels they cannot do it. very happy to hear you found someone 'wonderful.' ;)
very sorry about your loses, but so nice to hear you got your little girl after that..
very sorry about your loses, but so nice to hear you got your little girl after that..
@ lotsastuff I am not shy or ashamed of what I've been through. In which I have no problem talking about it to anyone. I've shared it many times with young girls on here in the past. My babies are now 8,5, and 4 months. I'm blessed to be able to now stay home with my babies and would not change it for the world.
@Dolphin, good for you. you have no reason to be ashamed but shyness can hold some people back. Glad you're not shy:)
You are a strong young lady and I am very happy for you in how your life turned out...yes you are blessed :o)
have a great day.
You are a strong young lady and I am very happy for you in how your life turned out...yes you are blessed :o)
have a great day.
Lotsastuff, that is a valid question, and one I am happy to answer. No, my choice would be to not abort. At least I cannot imagine circumstances in which I would choose to do that. I do believe abortion should remain legal and safe for a host of reasons, although I wish that more would choose alternatives like adoption. Like MommaCher, I would love to adopt a baby. We went through a lot to have our son, and would very much like a second child. So I am not in any way pro abortion, just pro choice.
I do not believe that the law is the way to prevent abortion. I believe it is through education and easier access to birth control, especially amongst young people. I believe in sex education, and teaching about the possible repurcussions in not protecting yourself against both unwanted pregnancy and STD's. I also believe that it is not my place to make a choice for another women unless I am in her shoes. I am pro choice, but my choice would be to have the child. Second to that my choice would be adoption. But as someone who is actually actively trying to adopt, I wish wholeheartedly that more women would choose that alternative. I just don't feel the law is the way to handle the situation.
I do not believe that the law is the way to prevent abortion. I believe it is through education and easier access to birth control, especially amongst young people. I believe in sex education, and teaching about the possible repurcussions in not protecting yourself against both unwanted pregnancy and STD's. I also believe that it is not my place to make a choice for another women unless I am in her shoes. I am pro choice, but my choice would be to have the child. Second to that my choice would be adoption. But as someone who is actually actively trying to adopt, I wish wholeheartedly that more women would choose that alternative. I just don't feel the law is the way to handle the situation.
And just to clear up a very common misconception...most pro choice folks are not pro abortion at all. Just pro choice, which means all choices. However, we do believe that abortion should remain legal and safe. When it was illegal, it didn't stop abortion. It just send it underground where the procedure was dangerous, or women tried to self abort. People died. I do not want a return to that. In clinics that perform abortions (at least here in Canada), women must undergo counseling prior to making that final decision. I think that is better then women going to a quack who only cares about the dollars he/she is about to receive and discusses the potential repercussions, and not the general well being of the women who finds herself in this situation.
@adgal. I'm happy to hear that abortion would not be a choice for you in that you cannot even imagine a circumstance in which you would choose to abort. You sound very strong in your belief concerning that and thats good. People need to be firm in their belief otherwise whats that saying - if you stand for nothing you'll fall for anything or something like that.
So let me ask you, why would you never choose abortion for yourself? Just curious..
And also did you watch the video yet? I would ask that you would please do so as it helps always to have as much info as we can on any subject of which we have strong views. I have a few more questions that I would like to ask you but I have to go to work soon. But thank you for getting back to me and how wonderful that you are going to adopt. How exciting for you and your Husband...thats wonderful... I'll talk to you again soon... have a nice day.
So let me ask you, why would you never choose abortion for yourself? Just curious..
And also did you watch the video yet? I would ask that you would please do so as it helps always to have as much info as we can on any subject of which we have strong views. I have a few more questions that I would like to ask you but I have to go to work soon. But thank you for getting back to me and how wonderful that you are going to adopt. How exciting for you and your Husband...thats wonderful... I'll talk to you again soon... have a nice day.
I am pro-choice and have to admit I know a lot of people who use abortion as there form of birth control(he took off the condom without my knowledge/permission). With that said when my son was 3 I became pregnant before I met my DH I was with an ex who purposely got me pregnant and I had just started school so I chose to abort the baby worst thing I have ever done personally the baby was 6weeks 6days and I had a change of heart right when it was too late so I told myself I would never ever put myself through that again. Fast forward 3 years and when I became pregnant this time I was starting school though it has been difficult I would never change it and I cried through that whole video because it reminded me of my mistake. My friend has had 3 abortions since I met her and 2 has been in the last 6 months because she does not use protection with any man she sleeps with so in her case I feel anger because she chooses to engage in unprotected sex with multiple partners and then "kill" the "problem" as she calls the fetus inside of her. I have another that did a late abortion at 5. months and now she desperately wants a baby she cannot seem to have. I feel that there are pro-choice and the your choice. Looking back if I knew what I know now I would have considered adoption but did not know any better I apologize if I offend anyone with my choice just had to share it and to be honest nothing is worth killing a baby for
@ shyladybaby27 you did not offend anyone and your past is your past. I'm sorry you had went through so much pain with your choice. I'm glad to hear you would not do it again. Your friend seem to be using abortion as her form of birth control. I'm ashamed of what my SIL has done and in a way I hope this scares her and is unable to conceive again! Congrats on your new bundle of joy!
Just headed out the door for a long weekend holiday, so this will be a bit short, but I'll do my best.
I wouldn't choose abortion because I want children. My son was planned and very much wanted. If I were fortunate enough to conceive successfully again, that child too is wanted. During times I did not want children, I used birth control. As long as I can remember I have been well educated on how babies are made, what it might be like to be a mother before I was ready, and my mother allowed me access to birth control if I wanted it. Quite frankly, I abhor the idea of terminating a pregnancy after seeing my son grow inside of me and feeling the incredible love that I do for him from the second I knew he was on his way.
In my younger years, I did not see abortion the same way I do now. I truly thought is was no big deal. My attitude has changed, and motherhood is probably what has been responsible for that change.
No, I didn't watch the video and won't. I have seen things like that before. I am very much against late term abortion except in very rare circumstances. I understand how it works, and what happens. I work with the street population which includes prostitutes and addicts. Trust me, I have a full understanding on abortion and am not suffering a lack of education. I still would fight to keep it legal and safe, always.
Thank you for respecting my thoughts as I very much respect yours. And I wholeheartedly agree, these conversations are important.
I wouldn't choose abortion because I want children. My son was planned and very much wanted. If I were fortunate enough to conceive successfully again, that child too is wanted. During times I did not want children, I used birth control. As long as I can remember I have been well educated on how babies are made, what it might be like to be a mother before I was ready, and my mother allowed me access to birth control if I wanted it. Quite frankly, I abhor the idea of terminating a pregnancy after seeing my son grow inside of me and feeling the incredible love that I do for him from the second I knew he was on his way.
In my younger years, I did not see abortion the same way I do now. I truly thought is was no big deal. My attitude has changed, and motherhood is probably what has been responsible for that change.
No, I didn't watch the video and won't. I have seen things like that before. I am very much against late term abortion except in very rare circumstances. I understand how it works, and what happens. I work with the street population which includes prostitutes and addicts. Trust me, I have a full understanding on abortion and am not suffering a lack of education. I still would fight to keep it legal and safe, always.
Thank you for respecting my thoughts as I very much respect yours. And I wholeheartedly agree, these conversations are important.
well said adgal, I also have the same beliefs as u pro-choice, and I do feel aboration should stay legal and safe, but like I said before 19 weeks is very gross to abort, I have currently found out Im pregnant a few days agp, my choice will be to termintate the pregnancy with the aboration pill I will take this pill prior to being 7 weeks pregnant which will give me a miscarriage, I gave birth to 3 wonderful daughters however I cant not bring myself to having a another one, I dont use aboration as a method birthcontrol, and I regret ever moment on not being more careful, however the pregnancy is there now and I do feel it is my body I cannot stand the thought of carrying another child to fullterm,. sry if this upsets anyone but I have to do this for several reasons...xxx
sry I meant to say the reason before I posted one is money we are broke and two is thought of rasing another child I dont think I can mental handle it, xxxx
If it were my family, I would have to say something. What if you offered to take the baby for her if she doesn't want another child. I'm going thru a m/c myself right now actually so maybe I'm a little more sensitive, but it just breaks my heart to see unwanted babies, especially that late into things. OMG 19 weeks, thats almost like murder. I totally agree with pro-choice too, I don't think anyone should tell us what to do with our bodies....but for me, even being pro-choice, I know I would never have an abortion myself. I'm not trying to judge someone who made a different choice.....but 19 weeks, I'm struggling with that....couldn't she have made this decision a long time ago....man, even I would offer to take the baby. Heartbreaking!!!!!! but I definately would say....listen I know you're pregnant and ...quite pregnant, is there anything we can do to help to avoid what you are thinking about doing.
@nic, I'll give you money to adopt that baby.... I would want nothing more than to adopt but it takes so long. Please reconsider and remember you have options! And yes--- I am dead serious about adopting your baby.
My heart breaks for you cher. I hope you get that baby you want so badly.
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Late term abortion is not the same as early abortion. When a woman finds out she is pregnant it is her obligation to figure out if she is going to keep it or not and do something about it right away. My thoughts are that many women who have the late term ones are those who know something is wrong with the baby making their life short or so troubled that the parent can't afford the medical bills or they are super irresponsible and wait to see if the relationship is going to work out and then when it doesn't they abort. It's heartbreaking.
unfortunately the cost of pregnancy for some people is much too much. So even if they wanted to give the baby away they wouldn't be able to afford the pregnancy itself and may be left with many bills and without a baby. It's not fair to them. Accidents and things like rape, incest, etc. do happen and I don't believe that you should be forced to deal with the consequences when things beyond your control happen.
I have never been pregnant before this pregnancy, however, I do know several people who have had to make the decision to abort for various reasons. For a few who would not or could not behave themselves during pregnancy (ie stop drugs, eat correctly or at all (in cases of anorexia/bulimia), stop drinking, or on the other hand have a medical condition they choose not to pass on, etc) I then believe abortion is actually a responsible decision although getting pregnant in the first place (except rape, incest, etc), was irresponsible.
I believe that all women should be responsible and that it falls on you when you take control of your sexuality, abortion should never be used as birth control. However, I don't believe that pro-choice is wrong. I myself probably would have had an abortion when I was younger. I couldn't see myself having a child. Now, it's a different story. I have walked the line of infertility (luckily and graciously, i only had to try for 8 cycles) and understand how precious every pregnancy is. With that being said, In my life there was a huge growth within me. No amount of video, lectures, etc. back then could have convinced me that abortion was wrong. I wasn't having sex then, or being irresponsible either. I just didn't believe that a fetus was a child UNTIL I did get pregnant while trying and am so excited and seeing every step and realizing this is a child, MY child. I thought i was miscarrying at 6 weeks and was devastated.
Those that have survived abortion were aborted after 22 weeks. The earliest known baby to survive the womb was 21weeks 5 days. Legally a hospital is NOT responsible to try to save a baby with gestational age less than 24 weeks because the child is unlikely to live. It's sad but it's how it is.
I am Pro Choice with stipulations. I don't believe abortion should be performed in the second trimester unless a medical condition has been diagnosed with mom or baby. I don't believe it should be used as birth control, and I don't believe women should have multiple abortions. I don't regret thinking that I would have had an abortion when I was younger although I may not have been able to go through with it anyhow if the situation would have come about. I don't believe that people should preach and/or tell me that it's wrong. I don't think that YOU have the right to tell anyone else what is right or wrong. You can state your stance but making someone feel bad about their situation doesn't solve anything. You can choose to be a part of a decision such as this or take yourself out of the equation. And even if you've ever walked in the shoes of someone who has had to make this difficult choice whether you've kept the child or not, YOU don't know their situation, feelings, or what they are going through and don't assume you do. I don't believe it is anyones mission to save the fetus. Unless you will care for the child that will be otherwise aborted (such as chers position) you don't really have the right to claim adoption solves all. Sometimes it just doesn't.
I appreciate when people respect MY choices. Again, I have never had an abortion. I just feel that it is not up to me to tell YOU what to do with your life. I have opinions on the matter (that's what they are OPINIONS) BUT they don't mean that I am against it and I would and will never force it upon anyone or think less of you for it. My heart now breaks for the babies aborted, but I know that they will carry on life elsewhere.
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Late term abortion is not the same as early abortion. When a woman finds out she is pregnant it is her obligation to figure out if she is going to keep it or not and do something about it right away. My thoughts are that many women who have the late term ones are those who know something is wrong with the baby making their life short or so troubled that the parent can't afford the medical bills or they are super irresponsible and wait to see if the relationship is going to work out and then when it doesn't they abort. It's heartbreaking.
unfortunately the cost of pregnancy for some people is much too much. So even if they wanted to give the baby away they wouldn't be able to afford the pregnancy itself and may be left with many bills and without a baby. It's not fair to them. Accidents and things like rape, incest, etc. do happen and I don't believe that you should be forced to deal with the consequences when things beyond your control happen.
I have never been pregnant before this pregnancy, however, I do know several people who have had to make the decision to abort for various reasons. For a few who would not or could not behave themselves during pregnancy (ie stop drugs, eat correctly or at all (in cases of anorexia/bulimia), stop drinking, or on the other hand have a medical condition they choose not to pass on, etc) I then believe abortion is actually a responsible decision although getting pregnant in the first place (except rape, incest, etc), was irresponsible.
I believe that all women should be responsible and that it falls on you when you take control of your sexuality, abortion should never be used as birth control. However, I don't believe that pro-choice is wrong. I myself probably would have had an abortion when I was younger. I couldn't see myself having a child. Now, it's a different story. I have walked the line of infertility (luckily and graciously, i only had to try for 8 cycles) and understand how precious every pregnancy is. With that being said, In my life there was a huge growth within me. No amount of video, lectures, etc. back then could have convinced me that abortion was wrong. I wasn't having sex then, or being irresponsible either. I just didn't believe that a fetus was a child UNTIL I did get pregnant while trying and am so excited and seeing every step and realizing this is a child, MY child. I thought i was miscarrying at 6 weeks and was devastated.
Those that have survived abortion were aborted after 22 weeks. The earliest known baby to survive the womb was 21weeks 5 days. Legally a hospital is NOT responsible to try to save a baby with gestational age less than 24 weeks because the child is unlikely to live. It's sad but it's how it is.
I am Pro Choice with stipulations. I don't believe abortion should be performed in the second trimester unless a medical condition has been diagnosed with mom or baby. I don't believe it should be used as birth control, and I don't believe women should have multiple abortions. I don't regret thinking that I would have had an abortion when I was younger although I may not have been able to go through with it anyhow if the situation would have come about. I don't believe that people should preach and/or tell me that it's wrong. I don't think that YOU have the right to tell anyone else what is right or wrong. You can state your stance but making someone feel bad about their situation doesn't solve anything. You can choose to be a part of a decision such as this or take yourself out of the equation. And even if you've ever walked in the shoes of someone who has had to make this difficult choice whether you've kept the child or not, YOU don't know their situation, feelings, or what they are going through and don't assume you do. I don't believe it is anyones mission to save the fetus. Unless you will care for the child that will be otherwise aborted (such as chers position) you don't really have the right to claim adoption solves all. Sometimes it just doesn't.
I appreciate when people respect MY choices. Again, I have never had an abortion. I just feel that it is not up to me to tell YOU what to do with your life. I have opinions on the matter (that's what they are OPINIONS) BUT they don't mean that I am against it and I would and will never force it upon anyone or think less of you for it. My heart now breaks for the babies aborted, but I know that they will carry on life elsewhere.
Well said Ash. Thanks for your kind words about my situation. You are such a smart and thoughtful lady... You are going to be such a wonderful mommy!!
Some people are wise beyond their years and you most definitely are one!
Xoxoxox
Some people are wise beyond their years and you most definitely are one!
Xoxoxox
lotsastuff: I'm so sorry, I meant Pro life! I was reading the other comments and just typed the wrong thing! I'm sure my words make so much more since now!
@nic, moma cher said she would adopt your baby. I hope you consider her offer... That would be something wonderful. Open your ears/heart to God - this is one way in which God speaks to people,,,, he arranges for people to meet so that he can use them for his purpose. Meeting moma cher on MH is not an accident. Your baby is also not an accident.. God has provided a way for you to find a good home for your baby so that you don't have to abort. I wish you the best I do. I know its hard for you right now, but God has made a way, please carefully, prayfully consider what this young lady has offered to do.. :o)
@mjmom69 I see what you mean :o)
@mjmom69 I see what you mean :o)
@Me yeah
"Late term abortion is not the same as early abortion"
Abortion is a terrible thing no matter if its done at 7 weeks or 7 months. Its not a frog at 7 weeks and then at some magic week that someone 'chooses' it then becomes a baby.
When I see people say they want abortion to remain legal and safe, I ask safe for who? Its certainly not safe for the baby is it? Many babies are born alive and left to die without medical attention - thank BO for that.
Adgal you said you have seen videos like this one - the one I posted. This video is not a video that shows a baby being aborted, but its a baby who is now an Adult who survived a saline abortion and she now speaks everywhere, stands up for the rights of the unborn. I hope you reconsider watching it... I watch videos that people send me who are pro choice. I have no problem with that.
So I hope you take a look at it...Everyone should take a look at the video. Ask Dolphin, she will tell you it was not a film on a baby being aborted. She is even going to send it to others and if everyone TRULY wants to hear ALL sides they will watch it....Hope everyone had a nice Easter Sunday. Adgal, I don't want you or others to think I am yelling or mad. I am happy that everyone has remained very civil and to all - I am not condemning anyone for having an abortion, its just my prayer and hope that people will see that its a 'baby' from conception and for that reason you would change your minds on abortion..
Let keep the womb SAFE for children.
God bless you all.
"Late term abortion is not the same as early abortion"
Abortion is a terrible thing no matter if its done at 7 weeks or 7 months. Its not a frog at 7 weeks and then at some magic week that someone 'chooses' it then becomes a baby.
When I see people say they want abortion to remain legal and safe, I ask safe for who? Its certainly not safe for the baby is it? Many babies are born alive and left to die without medical attention - thank BO for that.
Adgal you said you have seen videos like this one - the one I posted. This video is not a video that shows a baby being aborted, but its a baby who is now an Adult who survived a saline abortion and she now speaks everywhere, stands up for the rights of the unborn. I hope you reconsider watching it... I watch videos that people send me who are pro choice. I have no problem with that.
So I hope you take a look at it...Everyone should take a look at the video. Ask Dolphin, she will tell you it was not a film on a baby being aborted. She is even going to send it to others and if everyone TRULY wants to hear ALL sides they will watch it....Hope everyone had a nice Easter Sunday. Adgal, I don't want you or others to think I am yelling or mad. I am happy that everyone has remained very civil and to all - I am not condemning anyone for having an abortion, its just my prayer and hope that people will see that its a 'baby' from conception and for that reason you would change your minds on abortion..
Let keep the womb SAFE for children.
God bless you all.
@ Adgal,,,I forgot that I wanted to address this too..
I had asked you why you would never choose abortion and ......
you said: "I wouldn't choose abortion because I want children. My son was planned and very much wanted. If I were fortunate enough to conceive successfully again, that child too is wanted."
So because you 'want' children you wouldn't abort and because your son 'was planned' and very much 'wanted' and also because if you are fortunate enough to conceive again 'that child too is wanted."
So IF a child is 'wanted' you will have it otherwise you would abort a baby that you and your Husband made? You seem like a very nice girl, don't get me wrong, but those statements ouch they are hard.
I just think no child should be 'unwanted'. And I guess thats the difference between a pro lifer and someone who is pro choice. There are many wonderful couples who through adoptions could give so much to a child and LOVE being number one and highest on the list of what they can give.
Am I misunderstanding you? It just sounds very harsh, and cold the way you worded that. I don't mean to sound judgmental, its just the way you said that it struck me very odd.
Could you please clarify what you mean? Thanks adgal :)
I had asked you why you would never choose abortion and ......
you said: "I wouldn't choose abortion because I want children. My son was planned and very much wanted. If I were fortunate enough to conceive successfully again, that child too is wanted."
So because you 'want' children you wouldn't abort and because your son 'was planned' and very much 'wanted' and also because if you are fortunate enough to conceive again 'that child too is wanted."
So IF a child is 'wanted' you will have it otherwise you would abort a baby that you and your Husband made? You seem like a very nice girl, don't get me wrong, but those statements ouch they are hard.
I just think no child should be 'unwanted'. And I guess thats the difference between a pro lifer and someone who is pro choice. There are many wonderful couples who through adoptions could give so much to a child and LOVE being number one and highest on the list of what they can give.
Am I misunderstanding you? It just sounds very harsh, and cold the way you worded that. I don't mean to sound judgmental, its just the way you said that it struck me very odd.
Could you please clarify what you mean? Thanks adgal :)
I can't answer that as it is not the situation. I have no idea what I would do in many different situations in life. All I can say is that personally, I am not someone who would choose to abort. But I don't believe that my choice should be forced on others. Sorry if that is hard for you to hear. And not sure what you mean by not judging me because I had an abortion? I have never stated that I did.
Look, I am pro choice. You are confusing that with pro abortion. It is not the same thing.
I have been in Moma Cher's shoes. She is like so many of us who want nothing more then a child, by any means. It is incredibly painful to find yourself in that situation. So I cannot answer your question as to what I would do if the situation were different, as the situation is not different. It is what it is. I have suffered the pain of infertility and was given a gift. So no, I guess I cannot imagine any circumstance I would choose to abort personally, but I still would fight for it to remain legal and safe.
Look, I am pro choice. You are confusing that with pro abortion. It is not the same thing.
I have been in Moma Cher's shoes. She is like so many of us who want nothing more then a child, by any means. It is incredibly painful to find yourself in that situation. So I cannot answer your question as to what I would do if the situation were different, as the situation is not different. It is what it is. I have suffered the pain of infertility and was given a gift. So no, I guess I cannot imagine any circumstance I would choose to abort personally, but I still would fight for it to remain legal and safe.
I think too you need to understand some of the things that I see every day. I work in a world where many babies are born addicted to drugs. They are born with things like fetal alcohol syndrome (which is permanent brain damage). I see kids born that are unwanted and wind up products of the system. These kids are not often adopted and given the amount of damage done to them don't have much of a life. It is incredibly sad to see.
So again, I would prefer to see the effort being put forth to make abortion illegal put into education. I want to see easy access to birth control..and yes, in some cases free. I want better sex education in schools. I want people to not throw their pregnant teenage daughter out of the hosue. Again, for me, that is the solution, not using the law. Making it illegal will not stop it. Education has a much better chance. I want prevention, not criminilization.
So again, I would prefer to see the effort being put forth to make abortion illegal put into education. I want to see easy access to birth control..and yes, in some cases free. I want better sex education in schools. I want people to not throw their pregnant teenage daughter out of the hosue. Again, for me, that is the solution, not using the law. Making it illegal will not stop it. Education has a much better chance. I want prevention, not criminilization.
Im pro_life 100%. I believe when I was yonger I didnt really understand, know or
Im pro_life 100%. I believe when I was yonger I didnt really understand, know or even think about what abortion RREALLY is, but after having so much access to the internet, after having so much information available to us, abortion is NOT a choice that should b allow. Life is complicated yes but we have to deal with the consecuences of our actions and sometimes of the actions of others. Pro_choice? Whose choice? That baby is innocent of whatever happened to put it there. That baby has no choice for its his life or his body. I feel abortion is a crime. I will never understand one single reason for what abortion is the solution. I mean come on u get a ticket for not wearing ur seatbelt. That should b pro choice. Now..... life should only b Gods choice!!!!!
I am pro life, because I see no excuse to abort a baby EXCEPT when both mother and child will die. Just because a child is born by rape does that mean they pay the ultimate price? Does that mean they're any different from children born by love? It hurts to see comments like that, and I know it hurts others. To live and grow up knowing so many others would throw away a baby just because it's not ideal. To know if I had been many others child my own life would have been destroyed. I've been through rape, I've been through abuse, I've been neglected and have known hate and unlove and I STILL would give anything and everything for life, just like I know others will. Abortion isn't black and white, and neither is life. There are many sides to each story, and many situations and the end results are all different. But remember that even innocent words can devastate another life and make them feel unwanted.
Some of you have said you are Pro-Life. You don't believe in abortion except in situations such as rape. Why do you consider these babies less important? Seems to me if you are pro life you would be pro life no matter what. You are so busy condoning others for abortions except for rape that you aren't considering there may be people on her reading this that are the result of a rape. Your words are hurting them.
A rape baby is not any less important then any other baby. I know how hard it is to carry a baby that was a direct result of abuse. In which not a lot of people are able to do that. My middle child is a result of rape but I don't love him any less. During my pregnancy with him I did not feel that bond that I've felt with my other children. My feelings on abortion us that it should not be done unless the pregnancy is result from some form of abuse. In which my son now has behavior issues that his psychologist says stems from not having a bond with me from conception. So I don't know many women that could go through with the pregnancy and then have the possibility of behavior issues later.
im 101% pro-life, i found my self pregnant at 15, i was in no way ready for a baby but killing it never crossed my mind, the moment i knew the baby was there i love it, i sadly lost the baby at 10 weeks due to a missed miscarriage and it was devastating, iv lost 5 babys in totally had also suffer with pcos, i dont understand why anyone would want to hurt there own baby, if ur having sex and fall pregnant its ur falt not the babys so u need to grow up a look after it or give to a family that will! its a tough subject for me and i feel really strongly about it, i have always felt this way but i think even more so going through what i have to be a mummy, if ur going to do u should do it as soon as u find out (even then i believe it is wrong as iv seen my baby with a hb at 5-6 weeks) but to leave it until 19 weeks makes u a murderer! how can u willing kill ur baby like that? it makes me cry the thought of it!
@adgal
What I meant when I said I did not mean to sound like I was judging you was when I said your words sounded harsh, cold and I that I may not have understood you.
To all the Pro choice folks who thinks a Pro life person should against ALL abortion including rape - I agree. A baby is a baby. A women can have her child adopted if she "chooses" not to keep a baby that was the result of rape. A family adopting a baby, is happy to get the baby, any baby as ALL kids are innocent. IF we start to say well the parent of that child, the rapist, his genes may have caused him to rape and what if this child carries that gene - hog wash. I have heard that excuse already and thats why I brought it up.
Adgal and other pro choice people - what I have found with women who say they are pro choice but would never abort themselves, well when I ask how come, they skate around the issue and avoid giving the REAL answer.
And the real answer is this - they view it as killing a child and they themselves would not do that YET they have no problem going along with other women doing that and why? Womens rights or so called women's rights.. What right does a woman have to kill a baby?
How come Pro choice women refuse to look at videos that just might influence how this is all wrong. These babies are dying horrible deaths and yet MOTHERS can say " I would not push my opinion on a woman, she has the right to choose."
PRO CHOICE IS PRO ABORTION. Let's be real here. Its comical that people even have the nerve to actually say that pro choice is not pro abortion. All that is your trying to make yourself feel better about how you stand on this issue.
Some of you go to church, right? Do you think that God is Pro choice? Aren't we supposed to follow God, what he wants? How do we know what God wants? We have to read his word - the bible....
And the bible says "BEFORE you were in the womb I knew you" in the book of Jeremiah. And psalm139:16"
"Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them"
So unformed substance is before the baby is completely formed. If you don't believe the bible, you should stop going to church, its foolish to do so because church will not get you into heaven but believing the bible is the word of god and that its all true, will get you IF you believe Jesus truly is the only way as stated in the bible.
Look at videos folks, the baby has fingers and toes at 7 weeks, beating heart....but yet Its okay to abort a baby in that stage you think for some reason. Why? and your answers always are that it cannot survive outside the womb. Well guess what a baby that "is wanted'' and goes full term cannot survive outside the womb if you want to talk about survival....
@have 2 kids - this is life and discussions will always take place that make some feel uncomfortable - its the real world..
no one needs to feel condemned for having an abortion. There is forgiveness at the foot of the cross. Jesus went to Calvary for our sins....But if a person doesn't consider something sin, then of course they will live with guilt because they never ask for forgiveness OR they do ask, but have no understanding of Gods Grace and how he does forgive immediately and holds nothing against you, then they will carry guilt that they do not have to carry as Jesus carried all their sins....
God Bless you ALL and have a nice day.
Ps, Adgal, because there are drug addicts, that is not a reason to have abortion legal. 2 different subjects. Many addicts continue to have babies though these social workers are aware of their drug problem... If anything maybe you should be "pro sterilization" of drug addicts... But most pro choice women I have said that to thinks its horrible - the thought of sterilizing a woman even though she is a drug addict and popping out child after child,,,, " her rights, woman's rights" that wins over the child in their mind or at least those that I have spoken to..
whats your opinion on that adgal? IF it were possible to sterilize drug addict women who had already one of 2 children born addicted, would you feel it right to sterilize her OR would you encourage her to get an abortion if she became pregnant?
What I meant when I said I did not mean to sound like I was judging you was when I said your words sounded harsh, cold and I that I may not have understood you.
To all the Pro choice folks who thinks a Pro life person should against ALL abortion including rape - I agree. A baby is a baby. A women can have her child adopted if she "chooses" not to keep a baby that was the result of rape. A family adopting a baby, is happy to get the baby, any baby as ALL kids are innocent. IF we start to say well the parent of that child, the rapist, his genes may have caused him to rape and what if this child carries that gene - hog wash. I have heard that excuse already and thats why I brought it up.
Adgal and other pro choice people - what I have found with women who say they are pro choice but would never abort themselves, well when I ask how come, they skate around the issue and avoid giving the REAL answer.
And the real answer is this - they view it as killing a child and they themselves would not do that YET they have no problem going along with other women doing that and why? Womens rights or so called women's rights.. What right does a woman have to kill a baby?
How come Pro choice women refuse to look at videos that just might influence how this is all wrong. These babies are dying horrible deaths and yet MOTHERS can say " I would not push my opinion on a woman, she has the right to choose."
PRO CHOICE IS PRO ABORTION. Let's be real here. Its comical that people even have the nerve to actually say that pro choice is not pro abortion. All that is your trying to make yourself feel better about how you stand on this issue.
Some of you go to church, right? Do you think that God is Pro choice? Aren't we supposed to follow God, what he wants? How do we know what God wants? We have to read his word - the bible....
And the bible says "BEFORE you were in the womb I knew you" in the book of Jeremiah. And psalm139:16"
"Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them"
So unformed substance is before the baby is completely formed. If you don't believe the bible, you should stop going to church, its foolish to do so because church will not get you into heaven but believing the bible is the word of god and that its all true, will get you IF you believe Jesus truly is the only way as stated in the bible.
Look at videos folks, the baby has fingers and toes at 7 weeks, beating heart....but yet Its okay to abort a baby in that stage you think for some reason. Why? and your answers always are that it cannot survive outside the womb. Well guess what a baby that "is wanted'' and goes full term cannot survive outside the womb if you want to talk about survival....
@have 2 kids - this is life and discussions will always take place that make some feel uncomfortable - its the real world..
no one needs to feel condemned for having an abortion. There is forgiveness at the foot of the cross. Jesus went to Calvary for our sins....But if a person doesn't consider something sin, then of course they will live with guilt because they never ask for forgiveness OR they do ask, but have no understanding of Gods Grace and how he does forgive immediately and holds nothing against you, then they will carry guilt that they do not have to carry as Jesus carried all their sins....
God Bless you ALL and have a nice day.
Ps, Adgal, because there are drug addicts, that is not a reason to have abortion legal. 2 different subjects. Many addicts continue to have babies though these social workers are aware of their drug problem... If anything maybe you should be "pro sterilization" of drug addicts... But most pro choice women I have said that to thinks its horrible - the thought of sterilizing a woman even though she is a drug addict and popping out child after child,,,, " her rights, woman's rights" that wins over the child in their mind or at least those that I have spoken to..
whats your opinion on that adgal? IF it were possible to sterilize drug addict women who had already one of 2 children born addicted, would you feel it right to sterilize her OR would you encourage her to get an abortion if she became pregnant?
To Lotsastuff: I'm not talking about people feeling condemned on this site for having an abortion. I am saying that there very well could be children (now adults) that have been from the result of rape reading this. Reading how abortion is ok if it was because of rape could make them feel like they aren't worthwhile.
@have 2 kids... Yes, I agree 100% with you.
We have to remember what God says as I mentioned above' 'BEFORE you were in the womb I knew you." So God knew that child long before conception.
And of course not saying God condones rape nor would any of us,,,, BUT God can take things that were meant for harm or hurt and make something good out of it. If we believe Gods word, that means even the crumby things that happen, he will turn it to good. The scripture to back what I am saying is this " God works ALL things together for good for those that love him."romans8:28... So no matter what we go through in life, IF we look, we will see that God will take what was meant for harm and make something good out of it.
Thanks for popping back and and posting what you said - a very valid point you made and one that is very true....
God loves all kids and they ALL are worthwhile and a blessing whether they came from a rape or a married couple - all the same, a blessing.. Dolphin having been in this situation says she loves all her children equally..and I would hope any mother in her situation would feel the same..
We have to remember what God says as I mentioned above' 'BEFORE you were in the womb I knew you." So God knew that child long before conception.
And of course not saying God condones rape nor would any of us,,,, BUT God can take things that were meant for harm or hurt and make something good out of it. If we believe Gods word, that means even the crumby things that happen, he will turn it to good. The scripture to back what I am saying is this " God works ALL things together for good for those that love him."romans8:28... So no matter what we go through in life, IF we look, we will see that God will take what was meant for harm and make something good out of it.
Thanks for popping back and and posting what you said - a very valid point you made and one that is very true....
God loves all kids and they ALL are worthwhile and a blessing whether they came from a rape or a married couple - all the same, a blessing.. Dolphin having been in this situation says she loves all her children equally..and I would hope any mother in her situation would feel the same..
hi lotastuff I read ur comment to me thxs for the insight, I do agree with u when u say pro-choice means pro-aboration because thats what i mean by it, however I dont agree on the whole god thing I do beleive but god but he did not indeed for me to have this child. This was just simply me being a reckless idiot, I acknowledge that iam a idiot because it could have been prevented, I just chaulk up pregnancy to mothernature, and that were meant to reproduce babies like rabbits or rats. God has no role in creating a child and if he does I have to ask why is there so many awful parents out there that hurt there kiddos, as far as adoption goes not that im opposed to it, but I do have 3 other kids and I gave one of them away,not sure how I could explain that when the child comes looking for me later in life if he or she want too. However Iam considering the option, aboration is awful, awful thing and in some regards I wish it wasnt a choice so it would not be available to me as a way. Anyways the embryo is still alive in my and im still considering the adoption route, thxs so much for ur post! :)
Lotsastuff, I will say that I admire your strong belief and your passion when it comes to this topic. And I am going to assume that you are not intending the comments directed at me to be as personal as I am interpreting.
I will try again to explain my pro choice views. I am most definately not pro abortion. Not in the slightest. I cannot speak for others that are pro choice, but for me, it's because I don't believe that making it criminal or illegal solves the issue. I believe that that will only drive it underground and that people will die. Now, some may say that if a women is making the choice to abort a pregnancy and dies as a result, she deserves that. I don't believe that. I believe that people don't always make good choices, but I do believe in second chances. I also believe in third and sometimes fourth chances. I believe that most women who make this choice make it out of desperation. Some are perhaps callous in their decision, but I don't think that is the majority. I think for most it is an agonizing one.
What do I want? I want it to be illegal for parents of a pregnant 16 year old to throw her out of the house onto the streets. I want mothers of sons (like myself) to teach their sons that if they impregnate a girl, they are equally responsible. I want it to be absolutely mandatory that parents educate their children on responsible sexual practices. I want kids to be educated on what it really means to have a child before your ready. I want drug addicted pregnant women to be able to get help for their illness without fear of judgement. I want it to easier for women to give their children up for adoption without the social stigma. I guess what I want is for people in general to be less judgemental and more supportive of each other. As for forced sterilization? No, I would never be in favor of that. Because people to get better. They do beat their addictions. And they too are people and not scum of the earth.
As for the religious aspect? Well, my bible says a lot of different things. Mostly it says't that God is the one to stand judgement, and that it is not my job to judge my fellow man. Mind you, I also do not stone prostitutes and tend to forgive people rather easily. I'm actually pretty fallible myself, so I get how people can make mistakes, even really serious ones. Like I said, I believe in second chances. I am not a social worker by the way. I work for a Christian organization and yep, we deal with the street level addicts, the prostitutes, those folks eating out of garbage cans talking to themselves. That's how I live my faith and my faith is a big part of why I do it. So to say I should not go to Church any longer? I am going to say I take deep offense to that. But I will trust you didn't mean it that way.
I will try again to explain my pro choice views. I am most definately not pro abortion. Not in the slightest. I cannot speak for others that are pro choice, but for me, it's because I don't believe that making it criminal or illegal solves the issue. I believe that that will only drive it underground and that people will die. Now, some may say that if a women is making the choice to abort a pregnancy and dies as a result, she deserves that. I don't believe that. I believe that people don't always make good choices, but I do believe in second chances. I also believe in third and sometimes fourth chances. I believe that most women who make this choice make it out of desperation. Some are perhaps callous in their decision, but I don't think that is the majority. I think for most it is an agonizing one.
What do I want? I want it to be illegal for parents of a pregnant 16 year old to throw her out of the house onto the streets. I want mothers of sons (like myself) to teach their sons that if they impregnate a girl, they are equally responsible. I want it to be absolutely mandatory that parents educate their children on responsible sexual practices. I want kids to be educated on what it really means to have a child before your ready. I want drug addicted pregnant women to be able to get help for their illness without fear of judgement. I want it to easier for women to give their children up for adoption without the social stigma. I guess what I want is for people in general to be less judgemental and more supportive of each other. As for forced sterilization? No, I would never be in favor of that. Because people to get better. They do beat their addictions. And they too are people and not scum of the earth.
As for the religious aspect? Well, my bible says a lot of different things. Mostly it says't that God is the one to stand judgement, and that it is not my job to judge my fellow man. Mind you, I also do not stone prostitutes and tend to forgive people rather easily. I'm actually pretty fallible myself, so I get how people can make mistakes, even really serious ones. Like I said, I believe in second chances. I am not a social worker by the way. I work for a Christian organization and yep, we deal with the street level addicts, the prostitutes, those folks eating out of garbage cans talking to themselves. That's how I live my faith and my faith is a big part of why I do it. So to say I should not go to Church any longer? I am going to say I take deep offense to that. But I will trust you didn't mean it that way.
Actually, Adgal, the bible does say we should judge each other in many circumstances. This is a comman misconception. We are to do so in love, though, not to be mean, but to keep each other accountable, to keep us from doing wrong, similar to what we do with our children, so we can call it correction, rather than judging, if that's easier.
There's a difference between looking down our noses at someone and acting like we're better thsn them or that we have no sin, and the person who prayerfully, humbly and gently point out a concerning behavior to someone because we're concerned about them.
I had a friend years ago who was tempted to committ adultry because she was bored in her marriage. She talked to me about it and told me she was attracted to another man. She seemed to be looking at me to tell her to go for it, even though she knew what the bible said about it. She knew how dangerous these waters were she was treading. I talked to her for some time, reminded her about the damage this could be to her kids, not to mention her husband and even her. She agreed with me and we left it at that.
She fell into temptation again and threw caution to the wind and had ax affair with someone. She moved in with her lover, her husband filed for divorce and she lost her kids. I was so sad because she threw it all away.
If I had a friend considering abortion, I would talk to her too. Most abortions aren't over rape or medical reasons, let's be honest. They're usually a situation where it's a young girl who's scared and instead of being supported and helped to carry a child, they usually are encouraged to abort. It's the quick fix. And for people who say things like "I don't want to get fat", "I don't want s baby right now, it would interfere with my life", "The birth control didn't work, or I don't like birth control" on and on, really it's excuses and selfishness. Having a baby means sacrifice and so many don't seem to understand what that means or are willing to put another being ahead of themselves. Does this seem harsh? I don't mean it to be but this is reality for so many who are using abortion as birth control or don't want to be inconvenienced with a child. It doesn't help that we have a society that not only supports that kind of thinking but even encourages it.
I know that there are a lot of unwanted babies born and children who are abused and I wish it wasn't so but I don't think abortion is the answer. I think education and supporting these women, not only during a pregnancy but afterward would be the best thing we could do.
To think of all those babies, especially the late term ones being aborted, knowing they can feel pain, breaks my heart. And how do we know which one might have been the next one to win the Nobel Peace Award or discover a new medical or scientific discovery that could change the world?
Do you realize that every human being has a different set of fingerprints? This includes the baby in the womb. There will never be another child like that one ever again. God did this on purpose to show how special and unique each person is to Him.
I won't quote the scriptures lotsastuff quoted because she quoted dome good ones but I do have the scriptures on judging each other, if you like Adgal, I just think I've written enough of a book here, lol. This is a passionate subject for me too and my daughter feels just as passionate. She tried to encourage girls at her high school to not go through an abortion. The ironic thing is, she was looked down on more for being pregnant at 17 and choosing life than some of the girls at her school who chose abortion. She made some huge sacrifices for this child but would never have done it any other way. As hard as it was, she graduated high school with A's and B's, had no social life, worked her for almost two years in the same daycare her son goes to, buys all his clothes, diapers, toys, etc., and I'm proud to say my beautiful daughter will be 20 in a couple of weeks and has decided to go to college this Fall. She wanted to wait till her child was a little older. He is now a healthy, happy almost two year old.
This was not an easy road she chose. She knows she made mistakes and asked forgiveness a long time ago and is at peace with God. I'm proud of how far she has come.
By the way, her idea to help keep teens from being so careless about sex and getting pregnant? She thinks all teenage girls should work in a daycare for one year, lol. She said she wished she had because she saw how hard it is taking care of these kids all day, every day, not to mention her own son. :) I think that's an excellent idea, myself!
There's a difference between looking down our noses at someone and acting like we're better thsn them or that we have no sin, and the person who prayerfully, humbly and gently point out a concerning behavior to someone because we're concerned about them.
I had a friend years ago who was tempted to committ adultry because she was bored in her marriage. She talked to me about it and told me she was attracted to another man. She seemed to be looking at me to tell her to go for it, even though she knew what the bible said about it. She knew how dangerous these waters were she was treading. I talked to her for some time, reminded her about the damage this could be to her kids, not to mention her husband and even her. She agreed with me and we left it at that.
She fell into temptation again and threw caution to the wind and had ax affair with someone. She moved in with her lover, her husband filed for divorce and she lost her kids. I was so sad because she threw it all away.
If I had a friend considering abortion, I would talk to her too. Most abortions aren't over rape or medical reasons, let's be honest. They're usually a situation where it's a young girl who's scared and instead of being supported and helped to carry a child, they usually are encouraged to abort. It's the quick fix. And for people who say things like "I don't want to get fat", "I don't want s baby right now, it would interfere with my life", "The birth control didn't work, or I don't like birth control" on and on, really it's excuses and selfishness. Having a baby means sacrifice and so many don't seem to understand what that means or are willing to put another being ahead of themselves. Does this seem harsh? I don't mean it to be but this is reality for so many who are using abortion as birth control or don't want to be inconvenienced with a child. It doesn't help that we have a society that not only supports that kind of thinking but even encourages it.
I know that there are a lot of unwanted babies born and children who are abused and I wish it wasn't so but I don't think abortion is the answer. I think education and supporting these women, not only during a pregnancy but afterward would be the best thing we could do.
To think of all those babies, especially the late term ones being aborted, knowing they can feel pain, breaks my heart. And how do we know which one might have been the next one to win the Nobel Peace Award or discover a new medical or scientific discovery that could change the world?
Do you realize that every human being has a different set of fingerprints? This includes the baby in the womb. There will never be another child like that one ever again. God did this on purpose to show how special and unique each person is to Him.
I won't quote the scriptures lotsastuff quoted because she quoted dome good ones but I do have the scriptures on judging each other, if you like Adgal, I just think I've written enough of a book here, lol. This is a passionate subject for me too and my daughter feels just as passionate. She tried to encourage girls at her high school to not go through an abortion. The ironic thing is, she was looked down on more for being pregnant at 17 and choosing life than some of the girls at her school who chose abortion. She made some huge sacrifices for this child but would never have done it any other way. As hard as it was, she graduated high school with A's and B's, had no social life, worked her for almost two years in the same daycare her son goes to, buys all his clothes, diapers, toys, etc., and I'm proud to say my beautiful daughter will be 20 in a couple of weeks and has decided to go to college this Fall. She wanted to wait till her child was a little older. He is now a healthy, happy almost two year old.
This was not an easy road she chose. She knows she made mistakes and asked forgiveness a long time ago and is at peace with God. I'm proud of how far she has come.
By the way, her idea to help keep teens from being so careless about sex and getting pregnant? She thinks all teenage girls should work in a daycare for one year, lol. She said she wished she had because she saw how hard it is taking care of these kids all day, every day, not to mention her own son. :) I think that's an excellent idea, myself!
You know April, there are very few people here on MH that I respect more then you. You are one of the most deeply religious people I know. However, I have never heard you bring it out to back up your agenda, but rather much of what you say and do is rooted in your beliefs, and that I respect. I remember well when your daughter became pregnant. I know that even though her getting pregnant outside of marriage was outside of your belief's, you supported her. You nurtured her and helped her to make the right decisions. You have stood by her. You have no idea how badly I wish there were more mothers like you in this world. I remember your pain when she was the subject of so much harsh judgement. I agree that abortion is not the answer. And as I said, it is often desperation that drives people to make that decision. And I can also say with full confidence that if there were more parents like you in this world, you would probably see many different decisions being made.
BTW...working in the daycare is an excellent idea. I'm so happy your daughter has done so well. But then again, she has an incredible role model, so it's not a big surprise to me.
@adgal. Absolutely not attacking you personally - not at all. I just disagree with you, same as you disagree with me, but nothing personal. I think its all good that we are all discussing this. Its a big issue.
As far as taking offense when I said you may as well not go to church. I don't mean it the way you took it. I wish everyone went to church, BUT what I am saying is the most important thing is to agree with what the bible says on the issues we face daily. Church is a building and going to church or doing good deeds does not get us to heaven. We do good deeds yes because of our faith, but if our faith is not in what Jesus did on the cross or if you believe all roads lead to God, then all the goods deeds in the world will mean nothing when you pass from this life to the next.
So no adgal, no offense at all to you. Easy for us all to misunderstand each other on forums. Happens all the time:)
As far as what the bible says - there's not my bible or your bible. Theres only one bible, of course you may prefer NIV over King James or Amplified or one of the other versions but they all say the same thing. I too believe in second chances and even more than that. As a matter of fact the bible talks about a righteous man falling 7 times. The important thing is that he gets back up. I'm sure you would agree. And we all make mistakes, me too of course BUT what has to happen is we have to admit our mistakes or see our 'wrongs' in order to change. If we keep telling people that their behavior is okay or acceptable then they don't see the need to change. Talking a women out of an abortion is not judging her but in order to talk her out of it, I have to tell her abortion is wrong to do.
Is that what you would call judging her? I would call it trying to save her baby. It works at times too and to see happy babies and prevent a women from what might be a life of guilt is something that I find the right thing to do. Do I judge the person - no.
I have never met one family that has kicked their daughter out onto the streets for being pregnant. I do hear that as an excuse by Pro choice women though. These young women can go to any Christian organization and find help and a place to stay. That is what these pro life groups do, but unfortunately the kids run to planned parenthood and no one is PP will ever tell a kid to not abort. Abortion is where they make their most money.
You call addiction an illness. I continually hear alcoholism and drug addiction being called a disease or illness by people who are liberal. and no offense, just saying.
The addicts I have at my church, none of them were born addicted - it is not a disease. Anything we do over and over we will become addicted to. People are addicted to forums, its a developed habit just like alcoholism or drugs...
MS is an illness, cancer is an illness. Neither disease ever brought pleasure to the people who have these diseases, but the person who got high or drunk felt pleasure early on, loved the feeling and kept doing it until now they are hooked and even if they now want to stop it can be hard of course, so yes I feel for them, but we cannot continually call it an illness because then the addict will feel powerless to stop..Its a habit from doing something they initially loved doing until it took their whole life over and now is out of control, but its not an illness, its a habit.
Any addict that has success in kicking the habit, the addict owned up to their weakness and called it just that - a 'weakness, not a disease.' The problem with the world today is people don't want to take responsibility for their actions and when they have bleeding heart liberals stroking their heads saying they can't help it they are ill, it only causes them to have a pity party for themselves and keeps them stuck in their weakened position..
As far as prostitutes,Jesus didn't condemn the prostitute but he did tell her she was wrong... Many people don't realize that because they don't read the scriptures... Jesus said "go and SIN NO MORE. So what he did by that is told her that her lifestyle was wrong but just stop doing it and you will be okay in other words...
But people misinterpret it by just saying oh Jesus accepts the prostitute...And YES he did,,, but AGain, he told her she WAS sinning and to stop. He said it in a nice way - just go and don't do it anymore ( sin no more)...
But adgal, nothing personal and I am glad this conversation is still civil. I think we are all doing a good job at respecting each other. But adgal, your faith should say this " I see a baby in the womb as a baby from conception and I would ask any women considering an abortion not to do it." A Christian is supposed to be an Ambassador for Christ as the bible says. So what would that be? It would be someone who represents his views. How could or would anyone say Gods views would be to let the woman abort if she so chooses...
Meant nothing personal or offensive if it reads wrong..Just stating what I feel as you and others are doing the same...take care.
Ps as far as education and raising a child in a responsible manner, thats a perfect world and it would be nice if all parents did what you mentioned, but they won't or not all, so they need to hear from people like me and other pro lifers and abortion needs to be illegal because then these young kids would take more responsibility because they would know they couldn't just run to planned parenthood..
As far as taking offense when I said you may as well not go to church. I don't mean it the way you took it. I wish everyone went to church, BUT what I am saying is the most important thing is to agree with what the bible says on the issues we face daily. Church is a building and going to church or doing good deeds does not get us to heaven. We do good deeds yes because of our faith, but if our faith is not in what Jesus did on the cross or if you believe all roads lead to God, then all the goods deeds in the world will mean nothing when you pass from this life to the next.
So no adgal, no offense at all to you. Easy for us all to misunderstand each other on forums. Happens all the time:)
As far as what the bible says - there's not my bible or your bible. Theres only one bible, of course you may prefer NIV over King James or Amplified or one of the other versions but they all say the same thing. I too believe in second chances and even more than that. As a matter of fact the bible talks about a righteous man falling 7 times. The important thing is that he gets back up. I'm sure you would agree. And we all make mistakes, me too of course BUT what has to happen is we have to admit our mistakes or see our 'wrongs' in order to change. If we keep telling people that their behavior is okay or acceptable then they don't see the need to change. Talking a women out of an abortion is not judging her but in order to talk her out of it, I have to tell her abortion is wrong to do.
Is that what you would call judging her? I would call it trying to save her baby. It works at times too and to see happy babies and prevent a women from what might be a life of guilt is something that I find the right thing to do. Do I judge the person - no.
I have never met one family that has kicked their daughter out onto the streets for being pregnant. I do hear that as an excuse by Pro choice women though. These young women can go to any Christian organization and find help and a place to stay. That is what these pro life groups do, but unfortunately the kids run to planned parenthood and no one is PP will ever tell a kid to not abort. Abortion is where they make their most money.
You call addiction an illness. I continually hear alcoholism and drug addiction being called a disease or illness by people who are liberal. and no offense, just saying.
The addicts I have at my church, none of them were born addicted - it is not a disease. Anything we do over and over we will become addicted to. People are addicted to forums, its a developed habit just like alcoholism or drugs...
MS is an illness, cancer is an illness. Neither disease ever brought pleasure to the people who have these diseases, but the person who got high or drunk felt pleasure early on, loved the feeling and kept doing it until now they are hooked and even if they now want to stop it can be hard of course, so yes I feel for them, but we cannot continually call it an illness because then the addict will feel powerless to stop..Its a habit from doing something they initially loved doing until it took their whole life over and now is out of control, but its not an illness, its a habit.
Any addict that has success in kicking the habit, the addict owned up to their weakness and called it just that - a 'weakness, not a disease.' The problem with the world today is people don't want to take responsibility for their actions and when they have bleeding heart liberals stroking their heads saying they can't help it they are ill, it only causes them to have a pity party for themselves and keeps them stuck in their weakened position..
As far as prostitutes,Jesus didn't condemn the prostitute but he did tell her she was wrong... Many people don't realize that because they don't read the scriptures... Jesus said "go and SIN NO MORE. So what he did by that is told her that her lifestyle was wrong but just stop doing it and you will be okay in other words...
But people misinterpret it by just saying oh Jesus accepts the prostitute...And YES he did,,, but AGain, he told her she WAS sinning and to stop. He said it in a nice way - just go and don't do it anymore ( sin no more)...
But adgal, nothing personal and I am glad this conversation is still civil. I think we are all doing a good job at respecting each other. But adgal, your faith should say this " I see a baby in the womb as a baby from conception and I would ask any women considering an abortion not to do it." A Christian is supposed to be an Ambassador for Christ as the bible says. So what would that be? It would be someone who represents his views. How could or would anyone say Gods views would be to let the woman abort if she so chooses...
Meant nothing personal or offensive if it reads wrong..Just stating what I feel as you and others are doing the same...take care.
Ps as far as education and raising a child in a responsible manner, thats a perfect world and it would be nice if all parents did what you mentioned, but they won't or not all, so they need to hear from people like me and other pro lifers and abortion needs to be illegal because then these young kids would take more responsibility because they would know they couldn't just run to planned parenthood..
I thought that was an awesome idea too! :)
By the way, that video mentioned here is worth watching. I have her book. Her name is Gianna Jessen and she survived.a late term saline abortion. I heard other babies did too, and that's why they don't do saline abortions anymore.
Anyway, you should read her book. It's amazing. God is using her to touch and move so many people. She travelsaround,, telling her story. She was meant to survive, I believe, because God wants people to see how much He cares.
By the way, that video mentioned here is worth watching. I have her book. Her name is Gianna Jessen and she survived.a late term saline abortion. I heard other babies did too, and that's why they don't do saline abortions anymore.
Anyway, you should read her book. It's amazing. God is using her to touch and move so many people. She travelsaround,, telling her story. She was meant to survive, I believe, because God wants people to see how much He cares.
@nic374
you said "hi lotastuff I read ur comment to me thxs for the insight, I do agree with u when u say pro-choice means pro-aboration because thats what i mean by it,"
Well good for you!! At least you are being honest! You are the first person to ever say that to me - that pro choice means pro abortion! Good for you. I appreciate your honesty. Its crazy that people think they can say they are pro choice but that doesn't mean that they are pro abortion. :) Thanks again.
U said "but I do have 3 other kids and I gave one of them away,not sure how I could explain that when the child comes looking for me later in life if he or she want too."
I think thats wonderful that you chose to give your child to another family rather than abort! And if your child comes looking for you later in life you just tell them you wanted them to live and have a life and whatever reason it was why you gave the child up, whether you felt you were too young or whatever, you will know what to say when the time comes, but you made the right choice and I have the deepest respect for you.
U said "However Iam considering the option, aboration is awful, awful thing and in some regards I wish it wasnt a choice so it would not be available to me as a way. Anyways the embryo is still alive in my and im still considering the adoption route, thxs so much for ur post! :) "
Oh nic, it is so great to hear that you are considering having the baby and going with adoption!!
Please keep me posted on this. And thanks for even letting me know... It takes courage to go through what you are going through, but I know you can do it. You sound like a strong girl...
Things will work out :)
you said "hi lotastuff I read ur comment to me thxs for the insight, I do agree with u when u say pro-choice means pro-aboration because thats what i mean by it,"
Well good for you!! At least you are being honest! You are the first person to ever say that to me - that pro choice means pro abortion! Good for you. I appreciate your honesty. Its crazy that people think they can say they are pro choice but that doesn't mean that they are pro abortion. :) Thanks again.
U said "but I do have 3 other kids and I gave one of them away,not sure how I could explain that when the child comes looking for me later in life if he or she want too."
I think thats wonderful that you chose to give your child to another family rather than abort! And if your child comes looking for you later in life you just tell them you wanted them to live and have a life and whatever reason it was why you gave the child up, whether you felt you were too young or whatever, you will know what to say when the time comes, but you made the right choice and I have the deepest respect for you.
U said "However Iam considering the option, aboration is awful, awful thing and in some regards I wish it wasnt a choice so it would not be available to me as a way. Anyways the embryo is still alive in my and im still considering the adoption route, thxs so much for ur post! :) "
Oh nic, it is so great to hear that you are considering having the baby and going with adoption!!
Please keep me posted on this. And thanks for even letting me know... It takes courage to go through what you are going through, but I know you can do it. You sound like a strong girl...
Things will work out :)
Good posts April.
Oh boy lotsastuff, we are moving far beyond the scope of this journal. If dolphin does not mind, then I would very much like to address some of the things you said.
First off, glad it wasn't personal, and yes, it is very easy to misunderstand each other on these forums, so I am glad we have cleared that up. I can agree to disagree and be ok with that. Glad to hear it's the same for you.
I have met a multitude of young women kicked out due to pregnancy. More times then I could possibly count. And it is typically for religious reasons. Not just Christian..to say that would be less then truthful, but certainly just as many strong Christians as any other religion. It happens all the time and probably more often then many people realize. The ones that abort typically do it behind parents backs, so it's the ones that come clean with their situation that it often happens to.
And addiction. There is more and more science to prove that addiction is a genetic trait. Now, that does not mean that every one born with a propensity toward addiction will become an addict..just as everyone born with the gene causing breast cancer will get breast cancer, but it does make them more likely. No one chooses to be an addict. I know that I love to have a glass of wine, but I can leave it at that. Some cannot. The answer to that probably does in fact lie somewhere in our DNA. I work with addicts every single day and am the grown child of an addict, and trust me, no one wants that. But regardless of whether it's a disease, weakness or choice, these are still human beings and so many do turn their lives around. So many wonderful people here on MH fighting that battle on the addiction forums. Anyone fighting that battle deserves my respect...it's incredibly difficult.
I have absolutely no problem at all with trying to talk a women out of abortion. Attempted it myself. What I am saying is that viable alternatives need to be offered. Yes, some women do use this as a method of birth control. I am not disputing that at all. But the majority are young and desperate and just aren't seeing any other way. I remember what it's like to be young and scared. Judgement is clouded. They are often embarrassed, humiliated and terrified of others finding out. What they need is guidance and real life alternatives. I mean no disrespect, but just telling them it is against God's will isn't going to do it. And I still firmly believe that the true answer lies in education before the fact. Look at what has happened with women drinking or smoking during pregnancy. We now know the damage that can cause, so we are seeing that decrease. Same thing here. I don't want people to abort, but I still do not believe the answer lies in making it a criminal offense. And if they did not have Planned Parenthood to run to, they would run elsewhere. But they would still run. I still maintain that making it illegal will not stop it, just drive it underground.
First off, glad it wasn't personal, and yes, it is very easy to misunderstand each other on these forums, so I am glad we have cleared that up. I can agree to disagree and be ok with that. Glad to hear it's the same for you.
I have met a multitude of young women kicked out due to pregnancy. More times then I could possibly count. And it is typically for religious reasons. Not just Christian..to say that would be less then truthful, but certainly just as many strong Christians as any other religion. It happens all the time and probably more often then many people realize. The ones that abort typically do it behind parents backs, so it's the ones that come clean with their situation that it often happens to.
And addiction. There is more and more science to prove that addiction is a genetic trait. Now, that does not mean that every one born with a propensity toward addiction will become an addict..just as everyone born with the gene causing breast cancer will get breast cancer, but it does make them more likely. No one chooses to be an addict. I know that I love to have a glass of wine, but I can leave it at that. Some cannot. The answer to that probably does in fact lie somewhere in our DNA. I work with addicts every single day and am the grown child of an addict, and trust me, no one wants that. But regardless of whether it's a disease, weakness or choice, these are still human beings and so many do turn their lives around. So many wonderful people here on MH fighting that battle on the addiction forums. Anyone fighting that battle deserves my respect...it's incredibly difficult.
I have absolutely no problem at all with trying to talk a women out of abortion. Attempted it myself. What I am saying is that viable alternatives need to be offered. Yes, some women do use this as a method of birth control. I am not disputing that at all. But the majority are young and desperate and just aren't seeing any other way. I remember what it's like to be young and scared. Judgement is clouded. They are often embarrassed, humiliated and terrified of others finding out. What they need is guidance and real life alternatives. I mean no disrespect, but just telling them it is against God's will isn't going to do it. And I still firmly believe that the true answer lies in education before the fact. Look at what has happened with women drinking or smoking during pregnancy. We now know the damage that can cause, so we are seeing that decrease. Same thing here. I don't want people to abort, but I still do not believe the answer lies in making it a criminal offense. And if they did not have Planned Parenthood to run to, they would run elsewhere. But they would still run. I still maintain that making it illegal will not stop it, just drive it underground.
Oh, and one more addition. For some people, the first time they try certain substances they are quite literally addicted. So it does not necessarily require repetative behavior. This is one area I am a bit of an expert in, so I can say that truthfully. Addiction is not the same thing as habit.
:) you're right we are moving beyond the scope of the journal...we can move over to my journal if you want..
I believe you when you say some have been kicked out, pregnant girls from their homes, but their parents are not Christians if they did so. Anyone can say they are a Christian but that means nothing, doesn't mean they are and kicking a pregnant teen out would tell me they are not. The bible says we will know them by their fruit.
the way I see it adgal is this. A person first has to ask themselves when they see scans of a 7 week old child in the womb and they see fingers and toes and then at 3 months see much more, is that a baby? If they say no, then what is it?
So, if the person is honest they will say yes, its a baby. Then from there we have to ask...Can you kill a baby? A baby who WILL feel its painful death? Do we worry more about the embarrassed 16 year old or the horror this child will go through with this silent Holocaust? Embarrassment, young age, clouded judgment, humiliation or being terrified is no excuse to take the life of a baby. Think of that way adgal. Thats all I'm saying. I'm not saying I don't feel for these young girls who find themselves pregnant - of course I do and I understand it would be embarrassing for them, but much is at stake - a human life.
If we see it as murdering a baby, we don't worry about driving abortion underground, we still have to worry about the unborn first and foremost. And if its illegal people will surely be more careful real quick too. Just as specialmom said there is no reason to find yourself pregnant today - none.
nic374 is very honest about the whole thing.... she says she was reckless and thats the reason for most pregnancies but at least she is considering adoption. I would call that taking responsibility, which then makes it all good. It makes up for the being reckless lets say.
But I have to go, nice talking to you adgal.
I believe you when you say some have been kicked out, pregnant girls from their homes, but their parents are not Christians if they did so. Anyone can say they are a Christian but that means nothing, doesn't mean they are and kicking a pregnant teen out would tell me they are not. The bible says we will know them by their fruit.
the way I see it adgal is this. A person first has to ask themselves when they see scans of a 7 week old child in the womb and they see fingers and toes and then at 3 months see much more, is that a baby? If they say no, then what is it?
So, if the person is honest they will say yes, its a baby. Then from there we have to ask...Can you kill a baby? A baby who WILL feel its painful death? Do we worry more about the embarrassed 16 year old or the horror this child will go through with this silent Holocaust? Embarrassment, young age, clouded judgment, humiliation or being terrified is no excuse to take the life of a baby. Think of that way adgal. Thats all I'm saying. I'm not saying I don't feel for these young girls who find themselves pregnant - of course I do and I understand it would be embarrassing for them, but much is at stake - a human life.
If we see it as murdering a baby, we don't worry about driving abortion underground, we still have to worry about the unborn first and foremost. And if its illegal people will surely be more careful real quick too. Just as specialmom said there is no reason to find yourself pregnant today - none.
nic374 is very honest about the whole thing.... she says she was reckless and thats the reason for most pregnancies but at least she is considering adoption. I would call that taking responsibility, which then makes it all good. It makes up for the being reckless lets say.
But I have to go, nice talking to you adgal.
Just a reminder - MedHelp is primarily intended as a support site and does not cater to one particular viewpoint over the other. Because of that, it is important to tread sensitively when posting about potentially heated issues such as abortion, even in journals. Although everyone is welcome to have their own opinions, MedHelp's goal is to be a safe place for everyone, and therefore it it not appropriate to post things that could be construed as strongly judgmental or highly offensive to others. You all have demonstrated a great deal of respect while talking to (and disagreeing with) one another, and for that I thank you! :) However, in going forward please keep in mind MedHelp's underlying intention of support (even to those who haven't been a part of this conversation) and share your thoughts accordingly.
When it comes to the abortion discussion, there is generally common ground on all sides in that no one - pro-life OR pro-choice - wants to see abortions happen. The debate can certainly become complicated, but nearly everyone would have agreement that at the end of the day they want the same thing - that no woman ever feels she is in a position where she might want to or need to have an abortion.
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When it comes to the abortion discussion, there is generally common ground on all sides in that no one - pro-life OR pro-choice - wants to see abortions happen. The debate can certainly become complicated, but nearly everyone would have agreement that at the end of the day they want the same thing - that no woman ever feels she is in a position where she might want to or need to have an abortion.
If you have any questions please feel free to contact me or any of the other moderators. We'd be happy to answer any questions or help!
Whoops, I spoke too soon! I didn't realize this was a different video, sorry about that! I just saw this video and it was so touching. Thanks so much for sharing this!
I thought Gianna was the only abortion survivor out there giving her testimony but seeing this video shows me there is indeed others.
I was touched by this young lady's words when she said she wasn't bitter towards her birth mother for trying to abort her. She thanked her for giving her life. Her birth mother was only 13 too! Just a baby, herself. Wow, what a story. I want to keep this one. Thanks so much for sharing, lotsastuff!
Adgal, here it is again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=571B4ZiIZ_Y&feature=related
It's only 6 minutes long. Please watch it and tell me what you think.
Someday this beautiful young lady will see her twin in Heaven. That's what I was thinking at the end.
I thought Gianna was the only abortion survivor out there giving her testimony but seeing this video shows me there is indeed others.
I was touched by this young lady's words when she said she wasn't bitter towards her birth mother for trying to abort her. She thanked her for giving her life. Her birth mother was only 13 too! Just a baby, herself. Wow, what a story. I want to keep this one. Thanks so much for sharing, lotsastuff!
Adgal, here it is again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=571B4ZiIZ_Y&feature=related
It's only 6 minutes long. Please watch it and tell me what you think.
Someday this beautiful young lady will see her twin in Heaven. That's what I was thinking at the end.
Thanks, Lira, for letting us continue the discussion here! I agree, I'm happy everyone has been respectful and willing to listen to each other and share. :)
Yes april, its a different video. And your welcome. I am happy to share it, thanks for watching it and yes I hope adgal and others do watch it..
@adgal - thanks for the note, i sent u one back but I don't see it on your page as of yet, a glitch maybe...
hope everyone is doing well today.
@adgal - thanks for the note, i sent u one back but I don't see it on your page as of yet, a glitch maybe...
hope everyone is doing well today.
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