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Tramadol & Ultram Recovery Room Part 54

Sep 09, 2012 - 206 comments
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Good Morning Tram Warriors!

I just finished reading the last thread and I'm still laughing about fullmetalalchemist learning to spell "$ucks" without medhelp blocking out that word.  I got blocked and stars thru that word so many times as I was recovering! Because it does suck. Yes. It *****.

Good to see we worked thru it after all this time.

:D

I just love you guys!

Such honesty and kindness and willingness to help.  It's such a blessing!  I think this place attracts some of the most intelligent and caring people in the world.  So gratifying.

I haven't posted for a very long time ... but I will always keep this thread going.  I remember so well the desperation I had to hear from anyone ... anyone about how they got off.  Now there's years worth of posts from people round the world who kicked Tram.  It's nice to know when they are awake at 2am, freaking the frack out that they can sign on and read and get really helpful suggestions.

It's just beautiful.

Anyhow welcome if you are new. Welcome back if you are a veteran!

Love and Healing!
Emily



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by Fullmetalalchemist, Sep 09, 2012
Hello warriors!
Thanks for your responses, move beyond and nannero. I can't see that I am being hard on myself but it must be there if you both can read that. I really think this stuff is good. My family of origin was truly psychopathically abusive and I need to put some of these things to bed. Sometimes, through out my life, I've tried to tell the story of my experience with my family and the validation and mirroring have never been there. Truth be told, most people just don't know what to say that would be a comfort to me. So they usually have said something about their experience that they think is a way of relating but it pales, SO pales in comparison. I am left feeling more ashamed and less solid in my core. I am at the threshold of getting what I need to understand ( as well as that can happen) but also feel the feelings I need to to grieve and heal. This has been a powerful driver in my self destructive patterns. I want to have some resolution and help looking at it in a way that honors me and my experience. I am getting this help now and finally.
What does this have to do with tram? Everything! I am actually doing rather well. I can't begin to explain what a relief it is for me to do this work. As far as withdrawals? I am doing very well. ( other than the yoga) something really big is in the way, there. I can't force this, I think. I want to be gentle about it. I did go get a physical last Thursday. I felt good about that. I go to Boston a week from tomorrow to visit my daughter at school. She is in an MBA program there, starting 2 weeks ago. I worried so much about how I would manage the tram during this visit. So relieved that will not be an issue.
I have not gained any weight in withdrawal and recovery. My waves of depression are there but well controlled. Some from withdrawal and some from this stuff I HAVE been stuffing for years!
You people are amazing! Yes! Some days just kinda $uck. I just have to try to realize that tomorrow will be different. Otherwise I begin to terrorize myself with the idea the bad days will stretch out endlessly into the future.
I went to a recovery meeting yesterday, too nannero! It was wonderful. Very good for me to be in the presence of others fighting to be free of addiction.
Move beyond- YOU are an angel!
Farmer- do you realize how little you are taking in, now? Don't worry about your wean. If you want you can just start spacing your doses wider when you are ready and see how that goes. You certainly could stay where you are and just move to your AD after delivery.
Joe- try clonidine for that anxiety, if you can. Every day gets better!
Fight on brave ones!
I believe in you!




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by nannero, Sep 09, 2012
Thank you Emily for keeping this going!  There are so many angels on this thread that have helped more than they'll ever know.  Deciding to get off the tram-train to he** is so hard!  Blessings to all of you!
Emily, thanks for explaining why $ucks didn't show up on one of my posts.  That was good for a laugh.  Very clever fullmetal on figuring out how to get it on here.  Recovery meetings do help, don't they?  I felt so safe last night with people who have been in my shoes and are nonjudgemental.  It was hard to admit my 10 years were down the drain, though.  Oh well, just part of my story, I guess. Trying to keep positive thoughts about the future free of this poison.  Even though it's whispering in my ear again today.  I did manage to go to Walmart today.  Ya want to test your mental and physical fortitude on day 4 of CT W/D's?  Go to Walmart on a Sunday!  My counter looks like a pharmacy now with all the vitamins, teas, amino acids, etc.  It was the best money I've ever spent if it helps thru all of this.
Thanks again everyone for being here for us newbies.  I know I wouldn't be here without you!


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by Jomer, Sep 10, 2012
Day 10, the return of ZERO energy.

I really thought I was over this part of it all.  Two nights ago was very rough, last night was exceedingly good, and tonight is even worse than 2 nights ago.  It is not quite 11 PM, and I still have a solid 8 hrs to go at my job.  Ugh.  I'm really not sure how I'm going to make it thru the night.  Damn 11 hours shifts...

The thing that really gets me, is that I had a hell of a time trying to sleep during the day.  I suppose the body just wants to be on a normal cycle.  Oh well, I have to tough it out, just like the rest of this grueling process.  I'd say at least football is on, but its not particularly interesting me at the moment, not quite sure why.  

I think tonight is especially tough because this it absolutely the kind of night I would have taken tramadol before.  Slow night, make me feel good and give me some energy.  Tonight is the first night I've really missed it.  Yes, I wanted it before to get rid of the bad feelings, but this is the first night that I am just craving it.  I will not take any, but the want is there.  

I'm going to go distract myself somehow.  Hopefully everybody else is doing better, good luck everybody!

Joe

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by Dlou62, Sep 11, 2012
Hello all, new here so here goes.  I've read many of these post and want to share my experience so others won't make the same mistakes I did quitting tramadol. I have had 6 left knee surgeries (4 arthroscopies, mckeever Hemiarthroplasty, and TKR) and am facing a total knee replacement revision. Fun, fun,fun! Needless to say tramadol played a huge part of pain management over the past 10 years but mostly so since 2008. Taking 30 50 mg per day was not unusual. I should mention that I never had an addiction or abused any Meds previously and I've been given them all. Until Tramadol. I was so horrified of more surgery tramadol was my savior. Now keep in mind 2 of my scopes were the 5 day hospital type where you are on an epidural for 4 days the pain is so great! Sent home on OxyContin and Percocet for those. My problem is called arthrofibrosis or "woody knee". My body overwhelms the knee with scar tissue and am down to about 45 degrees of ROM. Really painful most of the day. So got to the point that I just could not go on and confessed to my husband of 20 years the amount of tramadol I was taking and money I was spending. 120.00 or so every 5 days for tramadol. Enuf! We decided on a detox center one Saturday and made arrangements for a 5 day detox stay. Unfortunately most detox centers have NO idea how bad tramadol withdrawal is. You folks here do and I wish I had read/researched a bit more before I went there. Admitted around 5 pm on Saturday I was rushed to the nearest ER before 24 hrs went by. I don't even remember anything from that first night until I awoke 4 days later in ICU. Intravenous via my neck vein as all efforts thru my arms veins failed, the docs had to sedate me completely.....breathing tube, the works. Seems I went completely crazy even  tried to bite somebody so I could get "away". Demented, raving, screaming, kicking, fighting, I was strapped down and put in essence in a coma for 4 days. I was in the hospital for 12 days, the worst days of my life totally!
  Now it's been 5 weeks and am still on a boatload of Meds for detoxing. Still have extreme depression, on Celexa and serequel for sleep. Still on Clonidine, celebrex, lyrica also. So, the moral of this story is slllooowwwllly cut back and don't just stop taking tramadol cold turkey. Payback is a %#^<?. Will this depression and fatigue never end I wonder? Am currently seeing a counselor weekly with my husband and a psychiatrist every other week for Meds. My primary is completely useless and am in the process of choosing a new one. Have surgery scheduled for september 27th, that will be the end of me I think. We'll see I guess but have to remove the cause of the pain. It'is so bad it makes me cry sometimes and no Meds to help it. Doc even tried to give me a script for tramadol to help! No thanks I said, I"ll keep using Advil till after surgery. This is just a glossy picture of the hell I"ve been thru these last 6 weeks. Best of luck to others struggling with this addiction.....just don't do what I did. D Lou

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by Movebeyondthis, Sep 11, 2012
Dlou, welcome!
What a horrifying experience you went through!!!!   It's so scary and beyond frustrating to think detox centers don't understand the severity of tram withdrawal.  I think that will change, I hope.  I'm also sorry you have serious pain to contend with.  I wish you luck for your surgery on sept 27.  This site is a great place for support.

I had a scary experience though doesn't compare to yours.  I was put on low dose Naltrexone which is being used for late stage, chronic Lyme patients like myself.  Its being studied as an immune system booster.  Naltrexone is an opiate blocker.  I was taking tramadol at the time and not a small amount.  The nurse told me I'd be fine.  Within an hour or two of taking the Naltrexone one night before bed I was in full blown CT withdrawal.  I thought I was going to die. I really felt like that was a possibility.  At the time my husband didn't know I was on Tramadol because after he read about its risk of addiction he didn't think I should be on it.  So while he fell asleep that night watching TV on the living room couch, I was upstairs in our bedroom, debating going to the ER.  For hours I FREAKED out. I felt like I was going to have a heart attack.  I didn't know what exactly was happening physiologically, but I knew it was not good.   I tried to figure out whatever I could to stay sane, telling myself the naltrexone would eventually leave my system. I'd lie down, then pace, then rock myself in the fetal position, all the while humming, whining, crying, praying out loud.  After several hours of this I eventually crawled into the fetal position on my bathroom floor with my face on the cold linoleum floor.  I don't know why this gave me comfort but it did. I prayed and rocked myself for an hour or so until the naltrexone began to wear off (around 5am I think) and I fell asleep.  I woke up on the floor at 7am, got up, crawled into bed, and thought to myself, I'm f#%king screwed with this addiction.  And I realized I was going to have to be honest with my husband.  I was, and it was the first step in getting off of this insane drug.

I'm now doing a slow taper. I started early/mid July.  For the first time, I'm feeling stuck and I'm thinking about staying at this level for two weeks instead of 7-10 days.  My body just feels like its resisting settling into this dose or I'm losing steam.  I'm having thoughts of just taking a whole pill (I only take a half at a time now) because I'm so tired of being in a constant state of low level withdrawal.  My weekends are spent on the couch with pushes here and there to do something/anything because I plan my hardest days on the weekends so I can feel better when I'm at work.  I just want one semi-comfortable weekend with just enough energy to get off the couch and do some laundry, spend time with family & friends.  I know staying at this dose for longer is much better than going backwards.  But I know its best to be honest about my feelings of taking more.  I shared these feelings with my husband too.

I'm determined not to surrender and will not go backwards.  I must remember my night on the bathroom floor.

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by Movebeyondthis, Sep 12, 2012
I realized that I've come to my second week on Prozac and that I'm supposed to increase the dosage on it.  I'm hoping that will help.  

I also recognize that I need to focus on my thoughts... keep the focus on the prize, remind myself I'm on the right road, eventually I will look back on this, "keep going", "you are doing it!"...

Joe I hope today is better for you.  It may be a little up and down for a while but you've come so far!!

I hope everyone is getting some sleep, managing withdrawal symptoms, being proud of yourselves.

Keep going!

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by Dlou62, Sep 12, 2012
Thanks for the support. Went to my psychiatrist yesterday and he added Wellbutrin to the mix . Supposed to help with fatigue. Started this am and am on my way t o PT for the knee. More fun that. I discovered 5 hr energy drinks and those help but the psychiatrist said he was not gung ho about them. Always a price to pay he said. Took an "extra" 5 hr energy drink yesterday and felt really jittery so maybe he is right. He Teaches at Harvard so figure he's pretty smart! Meanwhile my second opinion ortho surgeon says what my regular ortho is planning will not work. 2 totally conflicting opinions.....I just don't get it.
  Tramadol. Can't live with it and hate being without. Still wish every day that I had some. Never stops. The husband is constantly checking that I haven't ordered any, says if I do I"ll lose him and the life we have. Some choice. He hides the Trazadone ( sleeping pill script I have) cuz I might decide to take a bunch. There are times believe me. Wonder if the policeman I bit in the ER will sue me? Haha sort of. Meanwhile I've gained all kinds of weight from being a couch potato so i can relate to your plight. The Wellbutrin is spose to give me energy. Also prescribed for weight loss, smoking cessation, and of course bipolar disorder and depression. One more pill to take, I just want to be normal, that's all.
  One more thought......the drug (one of the several that is) I was on in ICU was the same as what Michael Jackson died from. It can cause permanent nuerological damage. Tramadol really *****. Wish I had known more about the side effects both temporary and permanent. Wake up docs!
  Stay strong and just keep waiting it out. Advil works wonders!,

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Sep 13, 2012
dlou- I am so glad you posted and joined this group. You haven gone throughout tremendous trauma!
Is there a certain driver in your craving for tramadol? Is it the energy? The way it helps with depression?
I am so sorry to hear your husband is telling you he will leave if you use, again. That has to be a horrible feeling for you. You must be spiritually, mentally and physically exhausted. Do you like massage? If so please get one. How is the welbutrin? You are several weeks off the tramadol, which is wonderful! The drug they used to sedate you takes a long time to metabolize, and tramadol takes a long time, too. As well, you are facing another surgery. Big big stuff.
You must be absolutely exhausted. Does anything make your heart sing? Keep going, hon....
Move beyond- of course you have struggles with your thinking in the wean. That's why I couldn't even do one ( except a very rapid one- 4 day) it takes tremendous resolve to do what you are doing. Some days, understandably, that resolve will be weaker and your outlook not as strong. You have come so far and done so well. You are already 10x's more free than you were at the beginning of this journey. You are dissolving the hold tramadol has on you. Weaning is like living with someone after you have broken up. Not comfortable. No fun! Difficult! Demanding! I hope the prozac increase is helping. Some days just $uck, but tomorrow is usually better. Hope you are finding this true, today. Keep going!
I am doing very well. My legs are still a bit restless before sleep but nothing like that first week. I feel very relieved to be on the other side of this problem and moving on. The stress of being addicted, worrying about supply, knowing I'd need to withdraw someday, scared I'd be found out were absolutely harrowing! Destructive! Undermined my self esteem and confidence incredibly!
Sublingual B 12 helps with energy!
As does tyrosine. I also use picamilon which is a GABA and B6 supplement combination that helps with energy
At 100mg and anxiety at 50mg.
Farmer, how are you doing hon?
Joe- hope you feel better today.
Keep fighting free!!
I continue to use the clonidine at bedtime and it helps with sleep.


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by goatfarmer, Sep 13, 2012
Hi all,
I am sorry I have been missing! Life has been hectic to say the least, I will spare you most the details. I sure don't deal with it nearly as good as I did when I was on tram. I have zero stress tolerance! :(
I am on day for of my last taper. Down to 1/4 pill a day divided in two doses. Did GREAT day 1-2, day 3 cried ALL dang day! I have emotions inside me that I have suppressed for years.
I must say I am going through self loathing! I keep pondering all the mistakes I have made in my life, the damage I have maybe done over the years, just feeling like a LOSER to be honest!
I have a son going through mental illness issues and it has me TOTALLY and completely devastated! I don't know how to help him! Its so HEARTBREAKING! I cried all day about that. And of course going through guilt of what did I do to cause this. How do you help a 19 year old who refuses to get help and really its serious. He needs help desperately. A great kid, very respectful and kind just mentally ill and its serious in my opinion.
Ok enough of that.
Again day 1-2 were awesome. I was feeling more energized, getting stuff done, I put myself on a schedule and it has helped keep my mind of mini w/d I am feeling. My w/d are no longer severe yay they are very mild but its the dang mood issues that drive me the most wild. Happy one minute, deep despair and depression the next. I have to admit though it is getting better and better the longer I go without much of this drug.

I am on about what 12.5 mg now. WOOT! My goal is monday drop my evening dose so I will be down to 6.25 wait another week and drop the last morning dose. Wondering though if I should just C/T it now but afraid of my brain chemistry! I can handle the sweating, restlessness, pain, foggy thinking, brain zaps and headaches its the wild emotional part that is unbearable for me.

I am SO proud of all of you. Truly an inspiration! I could NOT have done this without you all! I can't even tell you how helpful this has been to have someone that understands.

I will probably only be on here 1-2 x a week checking in because on my schedule I put myself on I cut out time on internet to be able to get things done around here.

Now if I could get out of this self loathing period I would be on my way lol.

Love and hugs all.

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by Dlou62, Sep 13, 2012
Day 2 of Wellbutrin SR. Seems my dosage is very low, 100mg per day.....turns out my sister has also been prescribed the same for lack of energy and weight gain ect.. 150mg twice day. Wonder why mine so low but psychiatrist was very Leary of seizures. Guessing cuz of the way I detoxed. I read everyone's post and realized what a trusting idiot I was to go the route I did. Docs sat I'm a lucky gal to be where I am in recovery from such large amounts of tramadol. My eyesight still recovering- odd that my vision far away improved and near sight got damaged. Going to need glasses for that. Used to be so proud of that being 50 now....oh well. At least the eyes track together, a recent acheivement! Still have a huge scar on my neck from intravenous lines which is very attractive! Today a bad day.....how can i be 6 weeks clean and still feel this crappy?
  Off the lyrica and on gabapentin as substitute cuz insurance won't pay for lyrica. My husband puts my daily Meds out everyday in this little pill holder then hides the bottles somewhere. Does he think I can't find them? Ha! But he is the best of men in that he's been there every minute and tries to encourage and support the best way he can. But is adamant that I don't go back on them. Trams that is. Thus the threat to leave.
  I had loads of energy and was for the most part controlling the knee pain to manageable levels. This is what tramadol did for me. But the addiction had to stop.....I was definitely spiralling out of control to say the least. 30 + per day! How stupid was that? 8 50's per day is suppose to be the max allowed.
  You all are right on with everything you post here. The struggle is so hard. So sorry to ramble but just getting this out makes me feel better. I have 3 shelties who need me  the youngest only 6 mos old. She barely knew me before all this crap happened so I have to try and make it up to her and my other 2 old males 10 & 12yrs. Used to hike with them every day- rain or shine- in the 150+ acre woods out back of my house. When I can do that again I will feel "recovered". I feel only sympathy for those of you with kids. Don't know how you do it, dogs are hard enuf! Kudos all!  I know I'm not alone.

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by iamdone84, Sep 14, 2012
Hello everyone I have been taking 6 tram A day for a long time iam now on day 2 felling ugh terrible ...I want this so bad for me my kids and my husband I want my life back!!!!! I am now taking clexa and buspar I need feed back on that I hope it will help me I want so bad to beat this I need surport and to know there is light at the end of this very long tunnel please help me :(

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by nannero, Sep 14, 2012
iamdone, I feel your pain!  I'm on day 9 so things are getting better.  I took the advice of some people on here and talked to my doctor about clonidene.  It's a blood pressure medicine that's really helps with opiod withdrawals.  It has kept me going thru the worst of the anxiety.  I was put on celexa, too, but both celexa and buspar take a while to start working.  Does your doc know what's going on?  I can't recommend anything, of course, but if you type clonidene in your search there are lots of websites out there about it.  I also read hours worth of posts on here that had little tricks people did.  Hot showers, walks, different over the counter help. There is lots of great advice on here!  Melatonin & calcium/magnesium helped me with sleep.  Hyland's restful legs helped me a lot with restless leg (twitches).  
You can do this!!!!  There is a light at the end of the tunnel.  It seems like forever to get there, though.  But you will! You're so brave to go through this.  Many can't.  I'm at work so can't write much.  I'll be keeping you in my prayers and please, please talk to your doc about clonidene!

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by Jomer, Sep 14, 2012
Hey everybody,

If you all have a doc you see regularly, have you have asked about Requip (brand name for ropinirole)?  It is a dopamine agonist specifically designed to treat restless leg syndrome.  I have been on it for several years and have had RLS my entire life.  I have been taking 2mg ER, and it does WONDERS for RLS!!  It might not be a long term treatment fo most of you, but it absolutely zaps those restless legs.  Just something to consider!!

I have finished my 7 days on of working, and have now started my 7 off.  Couldn't sleep, took extra Ambien, still need a better long term solution.  Going to wedding photographer tonight, going to a major college football game tomorrow, then an all-fantasy football Sunday!  I just still don't feel like myself yet.  I'm officially on day 13, and I am past the crazy panic attack feeling, but now I'm in that weird netherworld of pretty much just feeling like a zombie going through the motions.  I'll get there, and making it through a week of work makes me pretty excited when I think about it, but I just want to be me again!!!

Dlou, damn, hang in there, it will get better, and you have all of our support!!  Everybody, check out Requip, its bada$s and it works!!

Joe

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by Tallbean, Sep 14, 2012
Well I would just like to tell everyone that these posts have helped me thru the worse time of my life... This is my third time withdrawing of tramadol . Why I would do it three times is beyond me ... I have been taking them for one year but in very high doses not only to help with pain but they made me feel good ( so I thought ) anyway I came off them last December with every withdrawl symptom possible ... Stayed off for around 3 weeks and couldn't take the pain I was having so rationalized to myself I could control the amount I take well that didn't work.. Then about a month ago I just stopped them again  went thru the same withdraw but worse .. I wanted to die ... I did finally go to my gp and he gave me a taper... I did that till my last day and just couldn't stand to go thru the withdraw again. Anyway starting a week ago I started the taper he gave me again mind you being on my full doses again and didn't suffer any withdraw symptoms till I got down to 1 a day and so I figured just to end it..  Well that was wednesday might at 8 pm that I took my last pill... I threw the whole entire bottle away I am so sick of the control these pills had over me I don't have to go on cuz you all know how it goes... I am actually not suffering to bad this time still have real bad aches and tiredness  but I guess the taper helped .. I am also having minor anxiety but nothing compared to the first two times... I wod just like to thank you all because without reading each and everyone I would be going crazier than I already am!!!!!

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Sep 14, 2012
Farmer- so sorry your son is struggling. Yes. Heartbreaking for you! Sent you a message. Great job on the wean! How many weeks til the effexor? Glad you checked in. Any way you do your wean at this point makes sense. Your doses are low-- but I understand the fear.
Good job Joe! It was a milestone for me to get a week done at work, too! 13 days is awesome!
Nannero- yeah! Day 9. So glad you got relief from the anxiety and there you are, back at work! Hope things are going well for you.
Iamdone- I agree completely with nannero's suggestions. Reading the posts on this thread was so helpful for me. I also used and still use clonidine , initially used it for anxiety and now more for sleep. You are in the thick of the fight.
Keep going. Post as much as you need. I am sure you feel terrible. Days 1-4 are tough. Sleep is scarce! There are many possible symptoms in withdrawal and I learned much from reading here. The energy zap was unbelievable.
Everyday you get further from that last pill. Keep going and get all the help you need. The celexa will be a great help. Just know that the clonidine is VERY SPECIFIC for the anxiety related to tramadol withdrawal. My relapsing back to tramadol in the past was related to the 'otherworldly' depression and anxiety in withdrawal. I used an antidepressant and the clonidine this time and it made a big difference. I do not crave the trams
Day 31 for me! Thank you everyone! Getting further away from this living he!! feels amazing. Keep fighting free!
Move beyond- how are you doing hon?




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by Movebeyondthis, Sep 15, 2012
Hey everyone. Glad to hear you all are persevering!  Congratulations on everyone's mile markers! 31 days Fullmetal! That's incredible!!!  I'm so glad to hear you're feeling amazing. :).   Thank you for your comment about how tapering is hard.  It was reassuring and made me giggle a little.  You have a way of making me giggle and cry (in a good, you hit the nail on the head, kind of way) at the same time.

Farmer, you and your son are in my prayers.

I'm doing better.  It just seemed to take me longer to get through this last taper.  I'm through the worst and leveling out and I'm going to hang here for a while to give my body a break.  In the past as soon as I have maybe a day that's fairly good, I taper down. It's exhausting me.  I need to get back on antibiotics as soon as possible but I also can't stress my body - Lyme Dr emphasized this.  His last words to me at last two visits were "slowly".  He even gave me another tram script which at the time I thought, "there is no way I'll even finish the current bottle I have" (which I likely won't anyway).  I do admit some lyme symptoms are coming back so I need to be cautious.  

In any case I'm still determined to move forward and will NOT move backwards.  I have my taper schedule on my iPhone and I gave myself extra days to recuperate each taper.

My husband and I have talked about taking a little vacation over Thanksgiving just the two of us because I will still be tapering (very close to the end) and it sounds so much more peaceful than traveling to a huge houseful of distant family, friends of family, some of who I don't even know.  I just have a feeling I won't be up for it... I'm already worrying about the holidays! Lol.  Holidays are hard for us anyway.  My husband's parents use guilt trips to get us to travel with them and they don't know what I'm going through (my family does).  I guess it's not so ridiculous that I'm thinking about it now because it gives my husband's parents time to digest what WE have decided to do.  I know this is tough for a lot of couples, then adding tram withdrawal to the mix is even tougher!

Anyway, I hope everyone is doing okay on this Sat morning.  I'm off to get some very needed accupunture.

Hugs to everyone.

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by Dlou62, Sep 15, 2012
Greetings all!  I too am on Celexa or ic citalopram generic. 20 mg per day. When discharged from the hospital was on clonazepam 1 mg 3 times daily. Off that now as my PC doc said it was addictive and wouldn't refill. Another med I was on was Risperidone but stopped that when I started Serequel XR. Serequel really helps with sleep- restless legs ect. Still on clonidine 2 times a day 0.1 mg. my blood pressure skyrocketed so clonidine helps with both tram withdraw and actual HBP. Was on Lyrica also but insurance demanded a cheaper med so am on gabapentin 100mg twice day. That's helps with nerve pain. Since been on serequel also ditched the Trazadone but for those of you not sleeping this helps immensely. I'm sure there will be weaning off some of these Meds but for the moment they are helping hugely and needed.
  My husband read all my post and we had a huge talk. Wonders why I don't say these things to him. Mostly don't want to burden him and feel like such a loser that I am not " back to normal" again. What is normal anyhow? Been on tramadol so many years I'm not sure who is the real me. I'm sure some of you have these same questions/concerns and I suppose they should be spoken to my counselor or psychiatrist. Oh well. Truthfully? Wish.....what? Just want to be over all this crap and be a functioning human being again. Yeah!!!
  

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Sep 17, 2012
Hello warriors!
Hope everyone is doing well in their process of getting free from tramadol. KEEP GOING...every day we set ourselves a little bit more free. It is a war. Emily often encourages that stance, and with good reason. ANY weakness, chink in our armor and tramadol starts in....the mental twists...I've thought them and read them here...' just do one today...you aren't the person you could be if you'll just start taking me, again...this is a horrible day and taking me would fix it...you were a better person when taking me...you are weak and lazy without me...just do it one day, tomorrow you can quit...how will you stay awake without me? You have all this work to do, I can help...I can fix that depression you have, I can numb your broken heart....you will never be the same without me...see? You really can't make it without me'
on and on these thoughts can manipulate and overwhelm...
Truth is, tramadol lies....but when I am weak, I am vulnerable. This is a war. There is absolutely NOTHING good about being enslaved to a drug.
'we shall not flag nor falter. We shall go on to the end. We will never surrender!'     Churchill
Love and healing....




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by Ommanipadmehum, Sep 18, 2012
Thank you all for sharing,
I've been taking 300mg/day  for a couple years for back pain. Kicked it once already, about a year ago. That time I went too fast and suffered really bad wd.
Injured my back again and got back on it, a couple doses a day, soon was back up to max.
This time I'm tapering 1 or two pills per week (sometimes wait two weeks). Just trying to listen to my body and not rush it. At the same time, I can hardly wait to be free, sometimes tempted to cold turkey the last bit.  I've hit a point going from 3 to 2 pills where  I'm losing a lot of sleep last couple nights and am having really bad cramping and pain.. Something I've realized is how huge the mental aspect of the suffering is. Hopelessness, that I'll always feel this dreadful feeling.
I'm grateful this thread exists, it means the world to not be alone in this, doesn't it?
Sending you all love and support in getting through your pain. Everything is impermanent, including our withdrawals and suffering through this!

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by dalzona, Sep 18, 2012
I just want to give everyone here a big {{{ HUG}}} this Tuesday.  I haven't had a Tram since July 6 and feel completely normal again, so it does get better.  I don't even think about Trams anymore, I know, crazy, right?  And, I'm saving so much $$$ by not buying from the internet pharmacies, not counting pills (which I HATED doing), and better connected to my family.  I was more concerned about the effect of my addiction on my family than I was about myself, every time I popped the pills, I thought of my 5 yr. old and hated myself.

For those going through WD, hang in there, take it day by day, and KNOW it gets better every single hour.  That's hard to imagine when you're going through it, but I was once crawling out of my skin, screaming at the top of my lungs, hating myself, and today, 2 months later, I'm once again, whole.  

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by nannero, Sep 18, 2012
Thanks everyone for the powerful messages.  This is definitely a war, but it can be won. Just one day at a time.  I'm on day 13 and was able to work a 12 hour day!  Not a lot of fun, but so happy I could do it.  Hopefully, I won't pay for it too much tomorrow. I went back to my dr. yesterday and my blood pressure was just about back to normal and I'm able to taper off the clonidene (thank you fullmetal for insisting I get on that, it saved my butt!).  I'm taking 1/2 a pill in the morning and 1 at night right now.  I'm going to try and cut out the a.m. pill in a few days. It really zaps what little energy I have left, but I'll take that over the horrible anxiety anytime!  I know this all takes time, but I'm so impatient to feel o.k. again!  I guess if it was too easy I wouldn't remember this hell and the little tramadol voice in my head would talk me into "just one".  My next goal is a full night's sleep (fingers crossed).
My daughter and 3 month old granddaughter are coming for a visit in 2 weeks so I'm doing everything I can to be a million times better by then.  Well, that's a stretch, but I will be past the worst, right???  My kitchen counter looks like I robbed a health food store.  Amino acids, vitamins, herbs, teas, etc.  It seems to be working.  I found out about all of them from these posts.  I'm eternally grateful to every one who took the time to tell us about the things that help get through the withdrawals and get healthy again.  I started Celexa on my first day of withdrawals so I'm hoping the depression will be kept at bay.  Just have to wait and see, I guess.
Sending hugs and healing energy to everyone.  It's been a he** of a ride so far!



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by Jomer, Sep 19, 2012
Open question:

So I'm on day 19 of no tramadol, and I still feel off. Now I suppose thats to be expected, but thats not what my post is about today.  Its about Ambien.  I've been on it for over 2 years now, and I seem to be having trouble maintiaing any sort of sleeping habbit without it.  My built-in excuse is that I work 3rd shift, but lately (and especially since quitting tramadol), I have had no sleep structure without any ambien.  

Its an ongoing and progressive problem I've had, but mostly, I just still don't feel like me, and I'm wondering if anybody else has been on ambien for any length of time.  Is it still tram wd, or possibly ambien as well??  Thanks for everybody's thoughts ahead of time!

Joe

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Sep 19, 2012
Ohmmani- wonderful name! The weaning helps reduce the blood levels of tramadol so the effects when you do 'jump off' will not be so severe. Every day you do 2 you are lowering your accumulated amount in your system. ( the residual left over from yesterday and the day before).....I know it is difficult and these first weeks at lower doses and then into zero pills are challenging. It will pass....yes, it will....you are doing great! AND you are doing a great thing for yourself.
Keep going and post as much as you need to, we are here. Yes!
Nannero- thanks for the update! Yes...in 2 weeks you will be able to be present in a way you feel good about. I noticed there was always guilt about my hidden use when around my family. The first time I talked to my kids on the phone after being clean I felt so good about it! Congrats on now 14 days! That's great! I can visualize your kitchen counter-ha!
Jomer- what do you mean by no sleep structure? Most of my cohorts that work nights keep the same basic schedule even on their days off so they have a consistent circadian rhythm. There are many resources about sleep hygiene but your schedule is tough. Ambien does cause a dependence and going off it causes sleeplessness. After 2 years use your brain is habituated to the presence of the drug, certainly. Now wouldn't be the best time to try to get off it. You could switch to a benzodiazepine for sleep and then start weaning that in a month or so, but I'd wait awhile so you
can get further out from the tram before tackling the ambien. (but I would explore switching so you can get a different and maybe better sleep effect and then wean within 4 weeks so the habituation doesn't get entrenched)
Tell me your thoughts on this. Great job on the 19 days!
Keep going everyone! I feel so good about quitting. Every day I am grateful to be free of the guilt, dependence, fear of seizures and physical ramifications, dishonesty, isolation, self loathing. EVERY DAY! I am visiting my daughter in Boston this week and it is going very well. Still some restless legs but a hot bath before bed takes care of it. Still using the clonopine for sleep but after this visit I am going to wean it.


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by serenenow, Sep 20, 2012
Hello all,

Good to see those of you who are really wanting your lives back.  I'm still doing well.  I struggle with some issues relating to sleep but for the most post I feel really good.  Emotional outbursts are not as frequent but I am going through menopause so I pretty much relate the outbursts to that.  Life is good.  Not saying it's perfect by any stretch of the means but it's back on track which is all I could ever hope for.  I have made the solid decision that I will never take Tramadol again.  Even when I had the kidney stone back a couple of months ago and had to take Percocet, getting off that drug was no where near as hard as getting of Tramadol.  Each and every time I was ever prescribed Tramadol, I went through hell getting back off them so I have totally learned my lesson.  This does not mean I will consider any other narcotic for pain either.  Tylenol and Advil have been working well for me.  

Today I realize just how much pain I can manufacture in my mind that will cause "false" pain in my body.  After stopping Tram my pain subsided tremendously.  My mind can manipulate and trick me in more ways than I ever imagined.  

Keep fighting the good fight all of you.  Believe me, Tramadol is an evil manipulator.  You can get rid of the beast.

Hugs,

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by Ommanipadmehum, Sep 21, 2012
Fullmetal- Thanks for the encouraging words!
I'm through the really hellish discomfort, still uncomforatable but encouraged by my true self starting to come back to life. Sleep is key! I took Advil pm at the peak of my w/d and insomnia. Was very helpful. Also got passionflower extract and ginger tea, both very comforting on the nerves. I think jumping down a whole 50mg in one jump was too much. I'm still on two pills a day (cut into 4 doses). I'm thinking of going down a half pill every 4 days, does anyone know from experience what a good reduction rate is? I want off ASAP and figure I need to either take the necessary time to properly taper (to minimize withdrawal) or might as well go all off now, and get the suffering over with. No point to take my time but still have withdrawals!  
Much respect to everyone on here... Keep up the good healing!

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by Tallbean, Sep 21, 2012
Omann-- I am no expert but this is just  my experience..  I also tapered  and when I started feeling really bad w/d from thE tapering I just stopped ... I was suffering even cutting down so figured why prolong it. You are going to have w/d either way ... So this can only be up to you ... I will say though the w/d was not as intense as when I c/t one time.... Still there though.... If yourind is set you will do it... It's been 9 days now since my last dose and all though I  still having sleep issues and mild anxiety I feel great.... Good luck

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Sep 21, 2012
Ommani- sent you a message on your page.
Today is my birthday. Thank god I am free from the clutches of tramadol addiction! I am weaning the effexor and clonidine now both very gradually. Lots of night sweat from the effexor wean. ( so biochemically like that part of tramadol.) I take 37.5 mg. Lowest dose. I dumped out less than one third of the pill yesterday and sweated buckets last night. Other than the night sweats though, no problem with depression. Isn't that incredible? Probably a 10mg reduction and huge sweats. Sleeping well on 1/2 the clonidine dose, too. I am going to take this slow but am encouraged so far.
Everyone on this board is simply amazing! What a blessing that Emily created a place for us to come. I was freaking out from the effects I was experiencing when my dose was late. I wandered around the web and found this site. In early w/d when time goes so s-l-o-w I bet I checked several times a day and posted every day. I think I also read the whole thread. Hours. A beacon in the darkness that is tram w/d. Learning the strategies others found helpful and using those to create my 'individual plan' was key for success. You people are very special.  today my heart is filled with gratitude for all of you. I so admire your courage, honesty and dedication we share to get free.

You ask, What is our policy? I will say; “It is to wage war... with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us: to wage war ... You ask, What is our aim? I can answer with one word: Victory—victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be...  Churchill

much love





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by goatfarmer, Sep 21, 2012
Hi everyone!!!
Fullmetalchemist: your are such a true delight and god send! Such a great counselor! I think all of us can say how greatful we are to have you apart of this board!
Movebeyond thinking of you! Jomer you too hang in there it will improve!  Serenenow you go girl!!!
and all you new people welcome and hang in there this does get better!
I haven't been on lately life is so busy!

I am down to 1/8 a day felt no w/d in my last taper so I think I am home free almost! My last dose will be monday or tuesday! My anxiety is MUCH less now. Occasional bouts with depression but that has even improved tremendously! Usually day 3 is my worse day and today is day 3 and I am doing A OK! I have a bad head cold so feel crummy that way but no anxiety/depression yet!  YAY! I actually wonder if I would even feel any w/d if I ditched the last 1/8th now! Too scared to find out! WHat a chicken I am. lol.

I can't even tell you how freeing this is feeling! I never thought I would get where I am! I know I am still on it but I see glimpses of hope now!

I have 3 1/2 weeks left until delivery! Looking forward to it! Asking dr for Effexor still however... he didn't want to try me on that one first! UGH! Maybe ask a different doc? :)

Anyway congrats to all of you for taking the bravest most courageous step in your life! How freeing it is!



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by skh4you, Sep 21, 2012
I'm on day three. I feel crappy of course but am drinking theraflu which seems to help. I was taking 200 mg, the 100ER pills twice a day. The doctor was going to step me up because I was building up tolerance fast. However, when I found myself taking a third pill in a day, I decided I had better just go off them before the addiction gets worse. I wish I could find something nonaddictive for the nerve pain I get in my back. I was also offered Cymbalta, but now I've read that is also addictive. I'm at my wits' end.

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by ImDONENoMore, Sep 21, 2012
skh4you - ask your Dr. about toradol for the back pain.  There are some risks involved with this anti-inflammatory but a lot of members say it helped a ton with their pain.  Definitely worth a shot and a hundred times better than taking tramadol (poison in my book).

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by Movebeyondthis, Sep 21, 2012
Happy birthday Fullmetal!! And congratulations on a sober birthday!

Farmer, it's great to hear how much better you're feeling.  I'm so impressed with how successfully you've tapered. Glad the depression has gotten better.

It's great to see others coming to this site, finding help & support

I haven't been feeling so great. I'm getting back on antibiotics for Lyme. It's discouraging because it's makes tapering even more uncomfortable.  

I tapered down to 100mg today taken in four 25mg doses.  My Dr. may say take it easy on the taper but I'm stubborn and want to keep going.  I took extra time at 125mg.

I know there have been so many suggestions on supplements that help with withdrawal (anxiety, energy, pain, restlessness,etc). If anyone is willing to provide their lists again that helped it would be so helpful.  Being online too long is hard right now.

Thanks and love to everyone.


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by skh4you, Sep 21, 2012
Thanks so much, I'm DONE. I'm done with this stuff too. It does feel like I've been poisoned NOW, when I was taking it, it felt great. I'll ask about toradol, definitely. Nobody's mentioned it before.


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by skh4you, Sep 21, 2012
oops. ..toradol off the market now in the U.S.

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by ImDONENoMore, Sep 21, 2012
I never saw that - where did you get your information?

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by ImDONENoMore, Sep 21, 2012
I'm quite sure you can still get this med by prescription.

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by skh4you, Sep 21, 2012
http://www.rxlist.com/toradol-side-effects-drug-center.htm . . .but I notice it says generics may be avilable. However, in other research it said it's onlyl to be used for short term.

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by skh4you, Sep 21, 2012
I'll ask about it



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by ImDONENoMore, Sep 21, 2012
GOOD!  Definitelly worth a shot.  :) good luck to you.

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by skh4you, Sep 21, 2012
Thank you!

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by nannero, Sep 21, 2012
It;s great to see ImDone was able to help you skh4you!  This is such a supportive group.  I know I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for everyone's help.  
Happy Birthday Fullmetal!  I hope you're having a wonderful day.  You've been through the fight of your life and deserve a celebration!
Farmer, you are not a chicken!  To be able to keep to a tapering schedule on tramadol is mind boggling.  You're so much stronger than you realize.
Movebeyond, you've been so strong thru everything.  I'm humbled when I read your posts and can feel the conviction in your words to get off this poison. I found the Thomas Recipie and I'll paste it here.  There's another one, too that I'll put in the next post:


Thomas Recipe Re-Posted


Comments in brackets are my thoughts.[ ]

[Warning. If you are on anti-Depressants, use medical supervision on L-Tyrosine, SamE and all mood enhancers. There can be a risk if taking L-Tyrosine, 5 HTP  if you are on a tricyclic  or a MAIO antidepressant's ...It can cause a spike in blood pressure.]

Thomas Detox Recipe

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll nee
1.Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store). [generic brand anti-diarrheal is fine. Don't take it unless really uncomfortable]
2.L-Tyrosine* (500 mg caps) from the health food store.* [See Warning]
3.Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
4.Vitamin B6 caps. [or stress B-complex?]
5.Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available). [many gyms offer free trials]

How to use the recipe


During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate W/D symptom. [I like Epsom salts in the tub. Forces Magnesium into the muscles]

Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. DON'T TAKE IT, however, if you don't need it.[Diarrhea is the bodies way to aid in the detox so take Immodium or generic for the comfort factor, if needed]

Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine*. Try 2000 mg, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mg. Take the L-Tyrosine* with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine* will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine* can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate W/D, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine* is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help. [*Read the Warning first! *L-Tyrosine* is great. *SamE 400* mg works for mood too]

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better. [Walking gets the blood and lymph systems working, helping you detox better.]

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you. [Very important note]

[WARNING If you are on anti-Depressants, use medical supervision on L-Tyrosine, SamE and all mood enhancers. There can be a risk if taking L-Tyrosine, 5 HTP  if you are on a tricyclic  or a MAIO antidepressant's ...It can cause a spike in blood pressure.]




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by nannero, Sep 21, 2012
Movebeyond, here is a list of amino acids/vitamins that could help.  My dr. looked at the list and said I shouldn't take SamE or 5HTP because I'm on an antidepressant.  I found this list on this website along with the Thomas Recipe.

Amino Acid Protocol


Most of this program is from the book END YOUR ADDICTION NOW.. the doctor who wrote it ran a treatment facility in UPstate New york where they gave patients amino acids and vitamin via IV during treatment.. He also counsels patients individually.. All of these things are meant to rebuild activity in the major neuro transmitters.. as addicts our neurotransmitters have been disrupted by our use of drugs.. even stuff like cigarettes and eating alot of sugar can disrupt them.. with drugs however it can be more damaging.. I will list the aminos maily used for addiction, their dosages etc.. everything should be taken on a empty stomach... an hour b4 meals.. Take all of them together with lots of water... I have added stuff as I have done more research on this...

**Please check with your doctor or pharmacist for any interactions with any meds you may be taking.


B- vitamin Complex  100mgs, needed for absorption of aminos, rebuilding of the liver, reducing stress,  If you can get injections from your doctor that is even better.. I would buy the sublingual for best absorption

Multi mineral vitamin high potency formula , just good to take all around, addicts are using lacking many of the right vitamins and minerals, and alot of prescription drugs rob our bodies of nutrients.

5HTP-- this is what tryptophan gets turned into prior to being turned into serotonin in our brains. Serotonin is what is usually depleted if we are depressed and anxious.. Taking this will help with PAWS ( post accute withdrawl syndrome) or eliminate you suffering from them all together      DO NOT TAKE IF YOU ARE TAKING A SSRI OR TRICYLIC ANTI DEPRESSANT
Dosage-- up to 300mgs a day 3x DAILY ( I take 100mgs 3x per day, start with the lower dose and move up if needed) IF YOU ARE TAKING THE 5HPT PLZ DO NOT TAKE SAM E AS WELL. IT CAN BE DANEROUS

L-glutamine--amino acid required for GABA production, that is the relaxing part of our brain.    up to 2000mgs 3x per day.. ( I take 1000 mgs 3x day, again start lower and work up if needed)

L-Taurine-- another "relaxing" amino  up to 1000mgs 3x daily

DLPA-- helps restore the function to the pain receptors working with the enporphins/enkephalins, can also help with pain if you are someone that suffers with some kind of legitamate pain. DO NOT TAKE IF YOU ARE TAKING A SSRI OR TRICYLIC ANTIDEPRESSANT or if you have DIABETES or HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE
Dose-- up to 2000mgs 3x per day (again you can start lower like 1000mgs 3x daily)

Sam-e-- aids in stress relief, depression,eases pain, and produces antioxidant effect that can improve the health of the liver 200-400mgs per day   YOU ARE TAKING THE SAME PLZ DO NOT TAKE 5HPT AS WELL. IT CAN BE DANEROUS



Vitamin C-- use Ester c buffered form, detoxifies the system, and lessens cravings for drugs. Supports many body systems. Take 2,000mgs every 3 hours. Start with 1,000mgs and work your way up. Can cause loose stools, body will adjust.

Calcium 1,000mgs at bedtime Magnesium 1,000mgs at bedtime  nourishes the central nervous system and helps control tremors like RLS and other muscle spasms calms and relaxes the body, helps sleep.

If you find yourself really struggling with energy after being on the aminos you can add L-tyrosine to the mix in the early part of the day.. up to 1,500mgs..  This is not usually used in the treatment of pain pill addiction and can over stimulate some people I would say only take it if you are still struggling with energy after starting everything else..

If you find yourself having some anxiety the amino L-theanine is like natural valium.. It has helped me so much I no longer need to take xanax at all for my panic attacks

As far as sleep.. in my early days off of pills I took a sleep blend from GNC with a L-theanine and calcium magnesium liquid everynight and slept like a baby.



Another aid to help with sleep is melatonin.  This is a hormone released from the pinal gland in the human body at night time for sleep...this is essential for those coming off opiods. As little as 1mg to 30mg have been effective.  Start low and add 3-5 mgs every half hour till sleep.  Reasearch on healthy volunteers using up to 100mg of melatonin in a single dose shoes little side effects.  Melatonin is also known as a very strong antioxidant with 1000x the potenecy of vitamin E.  Take only at night right before bedtime as the hormone is released naturally by the body when it is dark.


I suggest GNC to purchase this stuff they are pretty cheap (some stuff is only 4.99 a bottle)  they were also super helpful and knew alot.. I got a gold card to save some bucks in the future..

After a few months if you are feeling good you can taper the aminos back to once a day... then a few months after that a few times a week.. the best part about taking aminos instead of drugs is you don't have to take them forever to get the benefit.. the FIX the problem not put a band aid on it.

Protein shakes can be of great benefit.. protein is needed for rebuilding of nearly everything in the body.



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by Movebeyondthis, Sep 21, 2012
Nannero, thank you for replying so quickly!  I will go to the health food store tomorrow and of course check on interactions. I have been eating a lot of carbs as I'm a vegan and I've had so little energy to prepare anything including my usual protein/green smoothies.  Its a great reminder.  I need to push myself to eat well. Thanks again. :)

Congratulations on being on day 16!!  You're an inspiration.  Have a great night.  Much love

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by skh4you, Sep 22, 2012
Day 16, wow! I hope to be that strong. I'm up at four in the morning drinking coffee. It was a bad night, the third night. I took a couple Benadryl to knock myself out, but I got the restless legs and didn't fall asleep for I guess a couple of hours. However, sitting here drinking coffee I'm not feeling bad at all right now. Head feels a little fuzzy but doesn't hurt and I don't feel achy. So that's an improvement. I wasn't taking nearly as much tramadol as some I've seen on here, but I know it would get there eventually. I feel like last night I may have gotten over a hump with the physical part. I'm grateful for this board. I've been here before. I need to stay for the support or I'll be back over some other drug or this one again. This time it's bookmarked.

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Sep 22, 2012
Skh4u- day 4! Nice! Many excellent suggestions above for supplemental help in withdrawals. You people are such a tremendous resource. The pain in withdrawal is not your baseline pain, skh4u, it is definitely pronounced by the withdrawal of the tramadol. Don't freak out about having to live with the amount of pain you are feeling, now. Within the next couple days it will get better. For nerve pain treatments i think neurontin is fairly specific. My son used it for his shingles pain, which is nerve pain all the way. We give toradol as injections only. Short term. Nerve pain is tricky to reach as many muscle and skeletal pain treatments don't touch the nerve stuff. Have you tried neurontin? It is not addictive in the traditional sense, however it should be discontinued gradually. The sleep stuff just $ucks in general and I had the restless legs from benadryl, too. I used nyquil before bed along with clonidine and that worked fairly well.....after an incredibly hot bath! I also think that gentle yoga would be helpful to work your back and relieve some of that discomfort. keep going!
Move beyond- hi hon! You are down to 100mg a day!!! Wow! I love your plan for the thanksgiving holiday. That's wonderful for you. You are taking great care of yourself! After you adjust to the 25 mg every 6 hours then start taking it every 7 hours for a few days, then every 8 etc. Before you know it you'll be at every 12 ( half the dose you are on now) then, again before you know it you'll be on 25mg a day! I can see the finish line in the distance....can you?
Also....look over your shoulder and appreciate the marathon route you've run.....miles and miles away from the jaws of he!! that is tramadol addiction. the theanine might be helpful. I take picmilon which is GABA and B6. Specific for anxiety. It is a nice supplement and you could try both or either.
Hi farmer! You are a good mom. GREAT WORK getting yourself weaned. 1/8 is like licking a pill...I know it is mental at this point. I am so happy to hear that you feel better emotionally. I sent you a note.
Yes...a sober birthday. It was very nice. VERY! I felt like such an @sshole hiding my using from my children. (26 and 23) I mean....how sick is that?! I guess that is just how addiction works. I wanted a 'little friend' I could use to help me get through life easier and I ended up enslaved to a monster. Shackled to a beast.
Nannero- loved your reprint of the recipe as well as the supplements. Very helpful. I am going to try the theanine, too.
Thanks!
alright all you lovely brave warriors! Keep going!

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by skh4you, Sep 22, 2012
Fullmetal, you are so much support, I'm so grateful. I have always loved hot baths. I don't take more than one a day. I'm living with my folks who are in their 90s and I feel too guilty contributing too much to the water bills lol. I pay rent to them but it never seems enough. And I don't tell them what I'm going through. I have the flu. My kids don't know either, although I would be able to tell them. They are adults now after all, and compassionate critters. Yoga isn't practical fo rme because I have Herrington rods from the thoracic area all the way down. I have been able to take walks around the block just to try to sweat a little bit. Had to force myself to do that because this neighborhood is hilly. I drink a lot of water and take B vitamins.But things are going okay.

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by ImDONENoMore, Sep 22, 2012
skh4u - stay away from the benadryl.  It will make the RLS a thousand times worse.  Melatonin is good for sleep issues and will help to calm/relax you at bedtime.  It's a natural supplement and much easier on the body.  Non-addictive too.  Also - a hot shower or bath right before sleep will help, and sleeping in a cool dark room is important as well.  But if you still aren't sleeping, get up.  Go into another room and sit by a low light and try to read for a while.  That should help you to relax, at least enough to make another attempt at sleep.

The sleep issues tend to be one of those withdrawal symptoms that lingers longer than other typical withdrawal symptoms.  Your sleep will eventually return to normal, but the tramadol really screws with your regular sleep when you're taking them. You might think you're getting a good night's sleep, but it isn't a REM or deep sleep by any means, so it's going to take some time for your body to re-adjust and find a natural sleep cycle again.  And during the day, do your best to get moving as much as possible.  Even if it's just a short walk a few times every day, that will help.  And limit the caffeine as that too will affect your attempts at sleep.  In fact you're better off replacing the coffee with green tea.  At least for the first few weeks.  Hang in there - it gets better.  SO much better.  :)

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by skh4you, Sep 22, 2012
lol. ..I should have looked it up first. I've always used benadryl if I couldn't sleep - after what you said, I looked it up and it turns out it's common. Let alone the fact I took two. I only drink a cup of coffee in the morning because it exacerbates nerve pain. If I don't have any at all, then I'll have the severe headache from caffeine withdrawal and I'm not going to put myself through that at the same time as the tramadol thing. I'll try the melatonin.

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by nannero, Sep 22, 2012
I just love your posts fullmetal, so uplifting!  And, yes, it does feel crappy not to tell our children.  But, I think that's just part of being a mom.  Don't want our kids to worry about us.  This is one time in my life I'm glad my daughter is 2000 miles away.  Never thought I'd say that, another little gift from tramadol **sigh**.  She did know something was going on when I talked to her so I just told her my blood pressure was out of whack and I was having anxiety issues.  My life is so busy and stressful so I attributed it to that.  I'm still wondering how I'm going to handle a full time and part time job.  My mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's last year so my sister and I take turns going to her house every day.  She's not bad enough yet for a nursing home and asst. living is out of the question. That costs around $6000 a month - a little out of our reach to say the least!  I guess now I have to learn to take care of myself instead of taking a little white pill for energy.  Hopefully, when I get my credit cards paid off I can quit the part time job.  It's only 9 hours a week thankfully.
skh4u, you sound a little better every day-hang in there!  The restless leg could be aggravated by the benedryl.  I've had it off and on for years (even before trammies) and anything with benedryl in it can cause it. All the pm pain relievers have benedryl in them, Excedrin PM, Advil PM, etc.  Melatonin and calcium/magnesium have helped me with sleeping.  I am also taking clonidene so I'm sure that's helping, too.  That's a blood pressure med that helps with opiate withdrawals.  There's a product called Hyland's Restful Legs that helps a lot with restless leg.  It's homeopathic and I found it at Walmart.  It's pretty inexpensive, too.  I've also read on here that valerian root can help with sleep.  I've never tried that.  I think I remember reading that it might not mix well with some meds, though.  I've read just about every post on here in the last few weeks so it's hard to remember.  I'll have to try a hot bath, fullmetal.  I've only been able to muster up enough energy at the end of the day for a quick hot shower.  Luckily it's fall and I don't have to worry about shaving my legs, too-lol.  

Stay strong everyone and I hope everyone finds something to smile about today ((hugs))

If we are facing in the right direction, all we have to do is keep on walking.  ~Buddhist Saying

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by nannero, Sep 22, 2012
Looks like we were all writing at the same time-lol.  

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by skh4you, Sep 22, 2012
Thanks all of you for the tips! I'm about to go take a bath before I get dressed. I am smiling occasionally because my beloved San Francisco Giants only have two more games to clinch the division.

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by ImDONENoMore, Sep 22, 2012
nannero - I love that buddhist saying.  Love it!

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by skh4you, Sep 22, 2012
body aches and headache are back. Alka Seltzer. It seems to work faster than pills

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by skh4you, Sep 22, 2012
a friend called and we're supposed to go out and about tomorrow. It'll be the fifth day. I hope I'll be all right enough, we have a beautiful place to go walking. Weather gorgeous here right now.

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by Movebeyondthis, Sep 22, 2012
Nannero - I love that Buddhist saying too! It's going on my bathroom mirror.  Wow, that will really help to see every day.  I'm having trouble holding down my full time job - I can't imagine any more than that. I'm so sorry about your mother's illness. You'll gain more energy if you continue to walk in the right direction.

Fullmetal - you made me laugh out loud when you said that Farmer is practically licking a pill at this point.  Thank you for the humor you always bring to this site!  It seems to come from your honesty and humility. No wonder you kicked this!!! Farmer, I can absolutely relate to your fear.

Skh4you - at day 4 you're so close to starting to feel better so I hear from others on this site.  I hope the alka seltzer works for you.

Ommanipadmehum - I'm tapering 1/2 pill (25mg) every 7-10 days. Thats all I could stand while working full time. But I can really relate to wanting to just jump and get it over with.  

Fullmetal, thank you for reminding us that our pain in withdrawal is not our baseline pain.  I've been worrying that much of it could be my pain from lyme but I'll really have to wait and see. Your words encouraged me to take a deep breath; a sigh of relief.

Healing and strength to everyone here.

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by skh4you, Sep 22, 2012
the Alka Seltzer worked for a couple hours. It does feel good to be able to eat and get vitamins down- nutrition can't hurt. I'm so sorry for your pain, Movebeyondthis. Fullmetal, thanks for pointing out the pain thing. Some days were worse than others before I ever got on pills. I'd just as soon spend the day in the bathtub to treat the achies, but I live with my (very) elderly parents. I'm trying to act as normal as possible, just that I have a "bug." lmao


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by Fullmetalalchemist, Sep 22, 2012
Skh4u-and everyone else!
I use 6000 milligrams of pharmaceutical grade omega fish oil a day. It takes away the brain zaps- absolutely! I haven't had one in withdrawal. Much research backs this up. That is a lot of fish oil but I tolerate it well. It reduces inflammation, is a mild blood thinner as well as a mood stabilizer. it also increases 'good chol' HDL, dramatically.
pomegranate juice- the 100% juice kind. Expensive but worth it. At least 6 oz a day. I dilute it with some water to increase my fluid intake.
Picamilon- a GABA and B6 supplement developed in Russia. Look it up! In low doses (50mg) it helps with anxiety and at (100mg) it helps boost energy. Taken over a few weeks the effects become more evident.
Magnesium at bedtime. I've been taking 800mg - be careful, it can cause the runs in high doses.
Omani- how is it going?
Move beyond- as always, you are an angel. I love how you battle the tramadol but remain gentle with yourself.
Everyone! Keep going!
All is well. You are loved.

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by skh4you, Sep 22, 2012
Awesome, fullmetal. I figured out what I can compare this to. Years ago I had a horrible kidney infection and got septic. This feels exactly like blood poisoning -- wonder why huh? I just took an Aleve, waited a half hour and took a second


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by skh4you, Sep 22, 2012
told my mother I wasn't sleeping well and she gave me one of her ambien for tonight. Hope I can get a full night's sleep so I can go out and about tomorrow. It's really beautiful out there.

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by skh4you, Sep 23, 2012
Slept eight hours after watching the Giants clinch their division. Head still feeling stuffed with cotton this morning but otherwise feeling close to fine.

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by Movebeyondthis, Sep 24, 2012
skh4you - glad to hear you got a full night's sleep! Makes such a difference with withdrawal.

My mom stopped by on Sunday which she often does.  She knows everything I'm going through and sweetly chatted with me while I continued to sprawl out on the couch, under a blanket in semi-pajamas at 1:30.  She is so incredibly non-judgemental and unconditionally loving. Everyone who meets her feels this. She uplifted me by coming over.  

Fullmetal - I'm reminded of what you said - that it's bull$hit that you can't help others if you have things to work on in yourself.  I never responded to your comment but it made me teary. I see it in my mom and I see it in myself.  It was exactly what I needed to hear, especially as I move towards plans of becoming a mother (God willing).

All of us on this site have so many gifts we've offered to each other.  You all are such special people. Life isn't easy but at least free from this drug we can break the shackle and walk on our journeys, whatever they may be, still human, still making mistakes, but walking in the right direction.

At 100mg, the opiate withdrawal is getting much better now (which I'm thankful for!), it's the incredible lethargy that is really hard to deal with. I don't feel like doing a thing.  The couch and bed are my haven.  I know it will pass eventually and I'm just trying to push forward especially to get to work. My job is fast-paced and I just need to remind myself I can only do the best that I can.  I'm taking B vitamins to help a little.

Hugs to everyone on this Monday morning as I gather the energy to get in the shower. So much work! ;)

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by skh4you, Sep 24, 2012
Movebeyondthis, you will be a great mom because you will get through this and be that much stronger. You have the sensitivity moms need and the desire to learn and teach. I also think it's b.s. that you can't help others whatever condition you're in. You know what it feels like and can provide kinship. Even those years past addiction still have difficulties, every human being does. Perfection isn't anywhere. xoxoxo

I'm glad you're feeling better. After my friend and I went and had our lunch at the lake, we stopped at the store and I got some mega B vitamins my friend recommended. Online yesterday I read reviews of DLPA. It sounds like they wouldn't cover my pain like a tasty drug, but could take the edge off, and if it did that, it would be a relief. So I sent for a bottle to try it out. I was feeling okay yesterday but bad overall feelings would come and go. I did tell my friend what was going on, because she is nonjudgemental. She also knows someone else taking tramadol so I told her to pass it on as to its addictive properties.

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Sep 24, 2012
Move beyond- I use B12 sublingual tablets 5000 mcg with methylcobalamin for best absorption. I find that these help with energy, and it is smooth energy. A good fish oil product would help, in your case, with the inflammation caused by the Lymes. My supplement picamilon helps very much with energy while reducing anxiety.
Might I say that weaning effexor really $ucks. REALLY. they even mention tramadol having a similar 'discontinuation syndrome' HA! ( read WITHDRAWAL) as effexor. I am so glad I am on a small dose. I am opening the capsules and counting beads for crissakes, removing 5 more every 3 days. It helped tremendously with tramadol withdrawal though.
I will give it that. I've read much on the effexor posts. It is amazing that this antidepressant has the range of symptoms that tramadol does, even all symptoms attributed to the opiate component of tramadol. How can that be? Flu, nausea, vomiting, the runs, hot cold flashes?
So....my withdrawal goes on. But this one I am going to taper gradually. I am sleeping ok. Sometimes swimmy headed from the effexor wean.
I have this weird thought off and on throughout the day, been going on for weeks.....'you are doing nothing wrong' ....it just pops up like I am reminding myself that I don't have a cr@pload of dishonesty lurking below the surface (like being a secret drug addict)
.....almost like I am giving myself permission to let go of the guilt, fear, self loathing. Or maybe these feelings are like a garment I unconsciously put on every morning as I get out of bed and I am telling myself I don't need to wear it anymore....I don't know. But the thought is true! AND it feels good.
Hey, everyone else! Keep going!

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by skh4you, Sep 24, 2012
I'm so sorry fullmetal. Opening the capsules and counting beads, you are dedicated. It sound so miserable. I think if we all don't get rid of the self-loathing we'll go back. Let's not go back. But let it not remain unsaid I had a moment of self loathing this morning and it's not done yet. l'm in full depression this morning and I just realized my head is so out of it I told my daughter a check would clear the bank today and it won't till 5 pm and she and her husband are struggling, I'm giving her this money trying to help her and my brain was so cottony I f'd it up. So I had to leave her voicemail telling her this cuz she is on the road for her job. I did manage to tell her as I told her brother by phone the other day I am going through this. They're so sweet. They know the pain I have is real and I was only seeking help, but I'm sure I didn't explain the brain nonfunction well enough for this check thing .

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by Jomer, Sep 24, 2012
Hi everybody!!

I came home from work this morning, and my fiancee told me, "Hey, you're on day 24, doesn't that feel good?"  I kind of blew it off, but she's incredibly right...I'VE BEEN OFF TRAMADOL FOR 24 FULL DAYS!!!  Hell ****** yeah!!!  

Hope everybody else is having a good day 24!

Joe

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by skh4you, Sep 24, 2012
Dear Joe: congratulations!!!!! My day not bad but still getting annoying "brain zaps." I appreciated a suggestion to try fish oil, but I've found in the pastthat no matter how I take it, it bothers my stomach badly. So if anyone knows of something else for that it would be great. I don't know how long these are supposed to last

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by HumbledXtian, Sep 24, 2012
Joe,
24 days is awesome. Congratulations.

Day 15 here. Its a great feeling.


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by Fullmetalalchemist, Sep 25, 2012
Humbled congrats on now 16!
Joker- 24- terrific! How is your sleep these days?
Skh4u- the best treatment for brain zaps is omega oils. You could try flax. That is high in omegas. You'd have to use a pretty good amount. What kind of stomach problems do you get from fish oil? Omegas are THE MOST COMPLELLING supplement I've ever researched. I hope you can find a way to get more in. It will stop the zaps. Other than a low dose antidepressant, i cannot think of another help for them.
Day 42 for me. Work went well, today. Gonna keep working on the effexor wean. I am determined to get off that medication. Going ok. Life is difficult and sad. Sometimes exhilarating and joyous. Strap in. No more crutches.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Sep 25, 2012
Oh....***@**** meant jomer. ....and now 25 days for you!

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by Movebeyondthis, Sep 25, 2012
Joe, 25 days!  Congratulations!!  You've come so far and changed your life so much in that time. I remember so much fear in your first posts. I'm so happy for you.

Humbled, day 15 already? Congratulations!  I hope you are feeling better every day.

Fullmetal, I cant believe it's Day 42 for you.  You rock.  I'm sorry the Effexor withdrawal is so tough. I know you'll get through it.  I do know with AD its helpful to taper down to small amounts like you're doing. I hope it gets better soon.

How is time moving so quickly and dragging at the same time?  I seem to be one of the few tapering snails on this site, but I'm moving along.  Fullmetal, I bought some sublingual B12 and it seemed to help yesterday. I'll get some fish oil too.  Thank you!  

skh4you, thank you for your kind words. You made me smile.

This last taper wasn't too bad so I'm going down to 75mg this Thurs. That's 1 1/2 pills!  I really can't believe it!  Unfortunately I'm starting to notice klonopin withdrawal if I don't take it.  Dr said we'll tackle that next.  I hope that doesn't take forever.  I keep hearing the ticks of my biological clock. ;)  I had no idea when I started that it would be this long of a process.  And I'm grateful to be moving along.  

Onward!  Make a good day everyone.

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by skh4you, Sep 25, 2012
I'm glad you had a good day at work, fullmetal. I work at home and just article writing and small chores online to supplement SS. I can't imagine having to go off to a job withdrawing from any substance. I tried the fish oil for macular degeneration. And at the time I think I  was also having some situational depression. Gave me stomachaches, bad ones. I hadn't tried flaxseed, though, I'll see about that, definitely. I had eight hours of sleep last night on a benadryl as the restless legs part seemed over. It was, yay! This morning as I get up, this cup of coffee tastes amazing, and I am not experiencing zaps at the moment. They seem so random, though. My daughter's coming by sometime late this morning so we can go get her some cash. I hate when my kids are struggling, upsets me more than when I am.

Day 7 for me.

Movebeyond this: I so, so meant it. Hang with 'em, you can do it!

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by nannero, Sep 25, 2012
It's so good to read that everyone is doing better each day!  I actually slept 7 hours last night-woo hoo! And not waking up with a knot in my gut.  The light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter.  The tramaflu aches and headaches are getting a little better every day.  I think I'll be o.k. for my daughter's visit next week.  I really don't want her finding out about all of this.  It's weird to read about the side effects of tramadol.  It explains a lot of my behavior.  So, so glad I finally got a clue 3 weeks ago and decided it was time to take the jump.  I never want to go thru WD's like that again!  Congrats to everyone on your amazing progress.
Tomorrow's a brand new day-let's make the most of it!

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by goatfarmer, Sep 26, 2012
Oh my goodness look at all these success stories! AWESOME! I have one to share below:

Fullmetal: well you already know how wonderful I think you are but you are a true inspiration full of hope and love for others. You amaze me! So sorry about the effexor taper! I remember those days. Considering not doing effexor because of those now that my depression is better. I still have depressed moments but they are not down in the dumps I would rather die feeling! I am not sure I will be able to go w/o antidepressants forever though because that is what drags me back to tram every time! Your awesome if I do say so!

Movebeyond: You rock!~ you are doing AWESOME! It feels so good to get under 2. I just know you will beat this thing! One day at a time! Hang in there! Sending you hugs!

Jomer and Humbled: SO incredibly proud of you! You did it! You beat it! I mean how proud can you be of yourselves! Great job!
All others that I see here welcome and know you CAN get through this! Its an amazing thing once you do.

Well as for me I am officially medication free! Well except for pepcid AC/Tums (for acid reflux and heartburn) and benadryl! I am almost scared to say it! I am free!
My last taper or should I say jump off was nothing! I have no w/d symptoms except insomnia and sometimes some PAWS symptoms showing up here and there far and few between. I took the last jump a couple days ago.

Ok so is it ok to say......... "I AM AWESOME, I DID IT?" ok I said it. Sorry to brag but this is the darndest hardest thing I have ever done and there was time all these months I NEVER thought I would make it! Infact most times I was sure I would never make it! I DID IT! OMG I can't believe I am saying this!
Its the most freeing thing I have felt in years! Maybe in my whole lifetime. This drug was SO hard to beat. NINE years,  It had me clinched in its ugly trap and I do mean clinched tight! The grip was unreal! I am free from the grip now! Can't believe I am saying this!

New ones in the midst of w/d...... This is SO worth it! I remember telling myself I will never get through this, I like myself better on trams etc! LIES all LIES! I like myself better, I feel better and I DID IT!

I will not lie there are some lingering PAWS symptoms I do experience but considering I have been on trams for 9 years and then some years before that as well probably a total of 10 years I will most likely suffer some rebound PAWS but it gets better and better and better even though I honestly never thought it would. WOOT!

ONWARD soldiers you can beat this stuff! YOU CAN DO IT!

Fullmetal, Movebeyond everyone else I couldn't have done it without your strength. Love you all!

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by Movebeyondthis, Sep 26, 2012
Farmer, indeed YOU ARE AWESOME AND YOU DID IT!!!!  I found myself smiling while reading your entire post!  YOU rock!  You truly are my hero.  The perserverence it takes to taper off this stuff is like nothing else I've experienced and you have given me so much hope.  I'm amazed with a gigantic smile on my face that your jump was as easy as it was.  "The Jump" follows me around haunting me.  I'm so happy you are FREE after nine years!!!  I hope I can be as patient as you've been.  I hear myself wanting to speed this up and get it over with, but it's too much for me.  I already have had to get back on all of my Lyme meds so I know I have to be gentle and slow like you were.  

My last post I was so confident in my current taper and decided I would go down to 1 1/2 pills on Thurs and then bam, yesterday, which was day 6 of the current taper my my sacrum and legs were so unbearably achy and withdrawal set in out of nowhere.  I realized once again how unpredictable this withdrawal is.  I know I will get there and I don't need to sprint like part of me wants to.  I think I will follow right behind Farmer with my 1/4 and 1/8 pills.  My last taper, I will be licking a pill as Fullmetal so humorously put it!

Nannero, so glad symptoms are getting better for you!

Here is to another day facing the right direction!  So awesome to read your post Farmer! A great start to a day! :)


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by skh4you, Sep 26, 2012
Ditto, Farmer. You are an inspiration. Movebeyond, you have legitimate pain, which is like me and so many of us. I have an appt with a chronic pain specialist to see if I can find something nonaddictive to help, because honestly I want to reach for a narcotic this morning. Thinking about a TENS unit which I've read a few great reviews about.  have a couple natural supplements on the way...5-HTP and duh the one that starts with D, they should arrive today. I want to give those a chance. My appt. with the pain person is a few weeks down the road. Yesterday, Aleve did fine which it will do sporadically.

Movebeyond, damb I wish I could take away your withdrawal stuff. My achies and things stopped fairly quickly and I feel serendipitously lucky. You will do it. We have a lot of lyme disease in these parts, I should see if I can find osmeone local with some advice

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Sep 26, 2012
Good morning brave warriors all!
Farmer- I have a confession to make.....WOOT is now one of my favorite words. Thanks to you. You marched through that battlefield of tram withdrawal like the courageous woman you are...now you KNOW. You are acquainted with your ability to take fire and keep going. YOU ARE AWESOME AND YOU DID IT!! I LOVEit that you can see now how tramadol was LYING to you. I remember you saying you felt like you were a better person on it and that you were wondering if you could use it for depression. I KNOW how demoralizing it is to be in withdrawal and acting like a crazed lunatic. Frothing at the mouth irritable, edgy and miserable. I KNOW how that little white liar of a pill sits at the periphery of that madness whispering "I can make this all better...why are you trying to make it without me? You know you can't....' Here you are!! Unshackled and free!! I found a site called CrazyMeds. very funny and informative. Overall the consensus there is that lexapro is the best tolerated AD overall -a close second is Prozac. Withdrawal syndromes are reasonable with both of these ADs. Effexor cymbalta and paxil are the hardest to withdraw from. Keep goin' hon!!

Move beyond- the rebound pain in tram withdrawal $ucks. It lies, too! Another tramadol lie. It does jangle fiercely but calms within a few days. Wants to scare us into thinking we NEED the drug. Those opiate receptors that are left without tramadol, now that doses are lower are just making a scene and having a tantrum. In their clamoring for more drug they accentuate pain to get it. But we say NO! You'll just have to settle down, and they do. I can hear your strength and hope. You KNOW you are closing on the finish with this monster. You have a wonderful way of gentleness in strength.No need to hurry. Another helper for energy is tyrosine. I am using the theanine for anxiety and it also is helping very much with focus during the day at work.

I got 5 Prozac 20mg to bridge the effexor wean. Since Prozac has a 7 day half life I will be taking 1 today and one in 3 days....my last effexor dose of about 10 mg should be this Friday. Much faster now with the short course Prozac bridge.
I am relieved to have this help and plan. I don't know if I could have made it during C/T withdrawal from tram without the effexor so I am grateful I had it. Sleeping great! Mood fairly well balanced. day 43 no trams!

Nannero- so happy you feel confident about your progress. I know how important it is for you to feel well enough to enjoy your daughters visit. I think you will feel beyond good about being with her and being free from tramadol. I remember the first time I talked with my kids on the phone after quitting. I was miserable in withdrawal but my heart was soaring knowing I was clean during those conversations.
Skh4u- 8 days! Awesome!

Love and healing! Never surrender!
WOOT!

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by skh4you, Sep 26, 2012
theanine for anxiety. .wow there are so many supplements


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by HumbledXtian, Sep 26, 2012
Goatfarmer, congratulations!!
What a great inspiration you are to all of us.

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by skh4you, Sep 26, 2012
My 5-HTP arrived. Plan on taking one shortly before bedtime. Seems a much better idea than the benadryl again, I'll tell you guys if it helps

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by Movebeyondthis, Sep 27, 2012
Fullmetal, thank you for reminding me how insidious tram's hold is in the brain.  I'm finally starting to feel some real anger towards this drug.  My anger had been displaced - towards my job, my husband, lyme, life in general.  But it's this drug!!  I need this anger towards it to fight it when the pain & withdrawal set in. So sick and tired of looking at these little white pills and hearing them call to me!!

I'm going to try theanine for anxiety.  I've been taking Kava Kava here and there so I don't take extra klonopin but I'd like to try something else.  It's good to hear that Prozac is a good choice for its W/D.  I experienced it many many years ago before I had any idea there was any W/D from ADs.  I do remember having brain zaps but they were manageable as I recall.

Aleve and a long hot bath helped with pain last night.  I think a hot bath is going to be my nightly ritual from here on out.  I think it helped with my sleep too.  It also gives my husband some peace from my complaining and edge in the evening. Skh4you, I hope the 5-HTP helped you last night.

I'm going to give myself a pat on the back right now for making it to work every day not feeling well and doing a good job.  I'm surprising myself with the strength that I'm getting to do that. I have all of you to thank for helping me to get through and quite possibly some guardian angels.

What a relief that it's already Thursday.  Hoping everyone manages their day with strength, hope and gratitude (and some anger if it helps!). Hugs

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by skh4you, Sep 27, 2012
I'm pissed at the tram too, Movebeyond. Yesterday morning I really wanted one. Anyway, I took the 5-HTP last night and it's amazing as to what it has done for my mood. Not sure if it got rid of teh brain zaps but I haven't had one since taking it. I'm not kidding, night and day. But it actually kept me up later, so I decided it is something for me to take in mornings. I'm anxious for the DLPA to arrive and see if it takes an edge off my pain. I read it takes awhile to kick in so I'll have to remember that.

I love hot baths and wish I could take more than one every day. Movebeyond, you and everyone else here who has to go to work while withdrawing. I would have called in with the flu, I'm sure of it. You are amazing.


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by jStO, Sep 27, 2012
Hello,

I joined today after reading many, many comments. It's comforting to know there are so many others who are going through the difficult battle of Tramadol withdrawal as well.

I started taking it after being in a car accident and had back surgery in 2008. I thought I was doing so well to avoid the opiates - and that was a big part of my doctor's prescription of tramadol. He touted the non-opiate approach and called them "as safe as advil". Well, I guess we know the truth now.

I took tramadol for almost 4 years. At my peak right after surgery, it was 4-5 50mg per day, but that was rare. A normal day was about 2 pills - first thing in the AM, and then around 2:30 PM. Maybe another if plans unfolded where I needed/wanted more energy. I had no problem getting scripts from various doctors. And I had ZERO awareness of the withdrawals that have followed.

For me, it's similar to what many have described - an incredible hollow feeling and NO energy. I tapered down to 1 pill a day for almost a month and I've been completely off of them for about a week now. But it's amazing how I'm feeling without just the 1 pill.

I've been pretty upbeat for the first few hours of the day as I immerse myself in daily tasks. But then about noon, WHAM - I'm done. I'm moody, gloomy and just want to sulk. I'm taking great comfort in knowing that others have gotten through this. I do not want to go to my doctor and get something else to combat the depression - I just want to return to how I was pre-surgery. I'm hoping and praying each day gets better for me as it has for others.

Thank you for this forum. Much love.

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by Movebeyondthis, Sep 28, 2012
Welcome, jStO. Congratulations on getting off tramadol!  You've come to the right place for encouragement as time passes and you heal.  You will feel better as so many on here have described.  Knowing that is what keeps me going.  You'll get back to yourself.  "Tramadol is as safe as Aleve".  Either some Drs don't know and they are getting a load of cr@p from the pharmaceutical companies.  Or they do know but because it's not a controlled substance, they don't worry about prescribing it any time for pain.  I was told it's non-addictive but I'll need to taper a little getting off of it.  Wow, that was putting it mildly!  Anyway, JStO, if you didn't have an issue with depression before taking tram, your brain chemistry likely just needs time to get back to its normal state.  Just be patient with it, be easy on yourself and know its the withdrawal, not you. Do you have anyone you can talk to about it?

Skh4you, glad the 5-HTP helped with your mood.  I bought theanine for anxiety but I'm going to wait until tonight to try it. I'll let you know how it affects my anxiety/sleep.  Thanks for the suggestion Fullmetal.  How are you doing on your AD taper?

TGIF!  Praying for a day of continued healing for all of us today.  

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by goatfarmer, Sep 28, 2012
Hello amazing courageous warriors!

I am doing AWESOME! For those suffering through intense increase in pain while tapering or jumping off I want you to know it will end! I had INTENSE muscle pain and my disk pain (which is why I started tram for in the first place) was soooo intensified for months while tapering! IT took me 8 months to rid myself of this drug I did a sloooowwww taper. My pain is bearable/tolerable! I will not lie its probably never going to go away and I accept that as I have disk degeneration etc but the intensity is so much better OFF meds then on! It makes no sense to me but its true and I have heard this true for others as well!
So those of you wondering..... but I need it for true genuine pain.... there is a better way! :)

I have never in my life heard of a pill that lies as much as tramadol does. You know:
" Your depressed and feeling so tired... take me and I will give you the energy you need to complete your tasks..I promise"
" you are in so much pain you need me to help... I am right here I will give you the pain relief you need"
"Taking just 1 or 2 is no biggie... common I am sitting right here in the cupboard waiting to give you relief.. you know you need me to survive"
"Take me I will wipe your bad day away and keep your emotions level..I am right here waiting for you to take me"
" There is no need to withdrawl I am right here ready to make everything all better... trust me you are a better person on me then off... here I am right here to make you feel better"
"No need to come off of me... just keep taking me the rest of your life and I promise to make it all ok"
" You better take more of me because can't you see you need more of me to feel better?" "just take another one you know you need it you will feel so much better".

Ok you get my drift I could go on I am sure, but those are some of the lies that tramadol has given me. You must stop the lies and tell tram to take a hike you are not going to believe these lies that keep you trapped in it! Get ticked off at it... Don't let the lies keep you in the cycle of addiction, self loathing, cycle. YOu hate yourself for taking it so what do you do? you take more to mask the self loathing you have for being addicted to it! and the cycle continues!

You WILL feel better.... it may take some months to feel better I will not lie but...... you will get there and its so freeing! Think of this... months are better then long years of continueing the addiction cycle that keeps you trapped. You may feel trapped in your emotions for a while while getting off these meds but the entrapment will end and you will be free!

I feel better now then I have in years! I never thought I could have this free feeling! I can't even explain it!
So I have bouts of feeling blue at times but.... I even had that on the tram which made me increase my dose!
While detoxing I had days of self loathing, guilt/shame, w/d symptoms, lack of hope, feeling like it will never end and the list goes on. IT DOES end!

Much love to all of you in this process! YOu CAN break free and trust me when you do you will feel so incredibly proud of yourself. The self loathing will decrease or stop and you will have kicked this demon in the a$$. :)

Movebeyond you are almost there! Keep going hon! The withdrawls can be so SO incredibly random! come out of no where. It WILL end! Some days I had to break down and take an extra half but I was determined to get off this crud so the next day I started over. I didn't look at it as failing as I knew I was determined to get the job done! I too remember feeling I just want off this tram train. But I am so glad I tapered it was the right thing for me because I was more level headed, nicer to my family and last time I made a quick jump I was suicidal! This isn't my first time quitting tramadol but it will be my last!!!! I never made it more then a week before. Now here I am! and no looking back. not even tempted!

I did what was right for me. Hang in there babe! For me cutting back every 7-10 days was the answer and sometimes I had to hold my dose for 12 days but in the end I did it! You should be proud! Keep on truckin' you will be free!

Oh it feels good to be free!!!


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by legaljunky, Sep 28, 2012
Hello my fellow Tramadevil warriors-
I like to check in once in a while to see my beloved family who got me thru the hell of WD. Great to see new faces- you have a beautiful new world ahead of you!  Tram is so far behind me now and I am so grateful to Emily for starting this life saving forum.  Those of you who are still in the thick of battle, keep fighting!  When I was finally past the pain and PAWS I felt so triumphant.  And with my freedom came a feeling that I now have the power to accomplish anything I set my mind to! So exciting!

In a few posts I see discussions about Omega 3 fish oil.  I had been taking it for years before Tram (1 of the supplements I started when I got Lyme disease) and I found that Nordic brand is the only 1 that does not upset my stomach.  I get it from a health food store and it is more expensive but it is the only 1 I can stomach.

Sending love, strength and perseverance!

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by jStO, Sep 28, 2012
Thank you for the welcome Movebeyondthis.

Yes, I do have someone to talk to for support. My wife has witnessed everything and is very concerned and loving. I know with her help, and reading posts here, ... I'll get through this. So far so good this morning, but afternoon time is when I struggle. The struggles seems less with places like this to share.

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by HumbledXtian, Sep 28, 2012
Welcome  jStO. You've done an amazing thing by tapering and then quitting completely.\

Don't know what kind of work and family obligations you have, but was wondering if a mid-day/early afternoon nap might help with your afternoon struggles. Do you perk up by dinner time/evening?

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by HumbledXtian, Sep 28, 2012
Legaljunky, that's a great name.

Some weeks ago, when I had my first appointment with my addiction specialist doctor, I told him that I was "a middle-class legal junkie."  

Since I'm an addict, guess I'll always be a junkie, but I plan to continue to be a clean one. Your 385 days clean give me hope and inspiration that I can pull it off. (I'm at 19 days now.)

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by Tallbean, Sep 29, 2012
Well I'm at day 17 tram free and not to be negative , but does the anxiety ever go away??? I have never had issues before but  now it's terrible!!!!!   I do see all the natural ways to try and help but would really like to not  be taking anything ...  After the tram ordeal I'm scared to put anything into my body  ever again..... Hope everyone has a GREAT Saturday...,

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by ImDONENoMore, Sep 29, 2012
Exercise will help enormously with the anxiety, along with hot showers (I took a LOT of showers those first few weeks..) - but it will subside with more time.  Hang in there.

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by goatfarmer, Sep 30, 2012
ok I guess its normal to have good days and bad days.....surprised at yesterday! Anxiety ridden! I had a conflict with someone and it was really uncomfortable and it set off my anxiety for the rest of the night! No other real w/d symptoms but anxiety and last night that stretchy and RSL how wild I thought it was gone!. I have a lot going on right now so maybe it was the straw that broke the camels back. Had short of breath, muscle tensing, edgy, shaky, intense feeling that lasted for hours! I was so disappointed because its been a week since I have been off meds and I cut back so slowly I thought all would be well.
I am feeling a bit better today with residual anxiety however! Bummer! Not nearly as bad as yesterday though.
All I know is I am NOT going to hesitate to get on antidepressant if this keeps up! NOt worth it!

But guess what I DID IT! I am still off. I wasn't even tempted to take any yesterday and I have some still left that I haven't flushed. Which I really need to do! Thats how far back in my brain tramadol is I don't crave or miss it anymore.
Just want the anxiety gone!

This is part of PAWS I am sure right? it will come and go? I had a really REALLY good week so I guess this is to be expected. When someone got mad at me yesterday it sent my anxiety through the roof and I had to deal with a conflict without my tramadol. Real life kicking in. :)

Tallbean.... I am not sure if you tapered or quit c/t but it will slowly get better.
Don't hesitate to take something if it continues at least its not addicting! I understand your fears but the depression/anxiety is what has driven me back to tramadol the last couple times I have quite and relapsed. So its NOT worth relapsing for. I am not saying it has to be meds but at least get some outside help like l-theanine, fish oil, b vitamins and exercise. Right now I am unable to exercise because of severe pain in my disks when I do because i have a 37 week old baby sitting on them but as soon as baby is out its exercise for me. I am trying to walk but when the pain is bad I can only do what I can do. Anyway depending on how fast/slow you cut back you will experience days of anxiety most likely but they get farther and farther in between. I had a set back yesterday after a week of being off but I know its temperary! Hang in there. This is SO hard!

Hugs



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by EpiphanyRose, Sep 30, 2012
GoatFarmer

I thank you so much for posting your taper and progress.  I have read Emily’s journal from the very beginning through to today.  You are one of the few that have tapered, posted your taper and commented throughout the process, and managed to make it ALL THE WAY TO ZERO by tapering.  You are FABULOUS!!!  And, you have given me hope that, someday, I can make it off the damTram also. I hope that you will continue posting your progress as you plow through the aftermath of Tram.

Once more, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Rose


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by EpiphanyRose, Sep 30, 2012
A little about me:  I have been taking Tram for 12 years… yikes!!!  I was dx with an autoimmune disease 12 years ago.  The doctor filled a big bag with Ultram samples, said they weren’t addictive, just don’t take over 400mg.  Probably no surprise to anyone here, but I can’t remember the details of when I quit getting them from the doctor and started ordering online. It WAS many years ago and the details are lost in the Tramafog.  I have  managed to stay in the 400 mg (8 tablets) range until just recently.  However, I started increasing several months ago and got up to 500 mg (10 tablets) and, on rare occasion 600mg (12 tablets).  

I had researched Ultram when I first started taking it and once again about 5 years ago.  There just wasn’t that much info out about it. However, I decided to research again last week, and that brought me to Emily’s journal. Wow! I’ve learned so much. And… I’ve started my taper. I started at 10 tablets for a week, and have decreased ½ tablet so I’m at 9.5 tablets. Like goatfarmer, I am going to do this very slowly as I have other health problems and I also work. Going c/t isn’t an option.

This is the most amazing place with the most amazing, strong, beautiful people. I am in awe of all of you.


Rose


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by Fullmetalalchemist, Sep 30, 2012
Hello all you wonderful warriors!
Welcome rose! Yes, farmer has done an amazing job with her taper! Move beyond is tapering, too and doing great.
Both took it slow like you plan to do. Keep posting!
Tall bean- what bothers you about taking nutritional supplements? The anxiety in tram withdrawal was very serious for me. I've read many others say they struggled mightily with it, also. It does get better with time. Is it interfering with your ability to function? 18 days is wonderful! Keep going. Did you wean?
Humbled- 19 days! I was curious about your visit to the addiction specialist, what it was like and what strategies you two decided on. How is it going?
Move beyond-did you do a decrease this weekend? How is the AD going for you?
Jsto- the energy zap in early withdrawal is tough. It does get better. Sublingual vitamin B12 helps me with energy.
I take 5000 mcg with methylcobalamin ( helps absorption) it is subtle but effective. Also a strong 1/2 cup coffee mid afternoon works for me ( if you like that kind of thing)
Farmer- hi hon! Why do you still have those tramadol laying around? It would be dangerous for me to have some
available. Interpersonal conflict is a difficult emotional trigger for me, too. I have to work on my coping skills because my way of coping over my time on tramadol was to TAKE MORE  tramadol if I was struggling. That became my primary coping skill. I have to really exercise my other skills now ( they are a little flabby from disuse. ) my heart would pound at odd times. Not every day but when it came upon me it was pretty intense. I used the clonidine during the day at those times-- I'd say for the first 4 weeks, lately I haven't needed to and the anxiety i feel is not that withdrawal anxiety anymore. Time. Heals. This. Problem. It will get better.
Good job staying away from the tram when you felt that way. I was very vulnerable to relapse, and did several times, like you did because the withdrawal anxiety was too intense to bear. Clonidine, AD, fish oil, keeping life as simple as possible, hot baths and a good book helped tremendously!
47 days today. Had a very stressful weekend at work. Many challenges and difficulties. I never thought I could do this
hard stuff without my 'little white helper' ....but frankly I never even thought about it today. Being a nurse, I gave some to a patient today and only thought about how horrible that drug is for her- but she wanted it (go figure)
We are the lucky ones ( even if it is hard and crappy sometimes, it is STILL harder to be addicted to something which enslaves me than to fight to get and stay free)
Keep going!
All is well
You are loved




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by HumbledXtian, Sep 30, 2012
@Fullmetal,

Three weeks ago today i took my last tram.

My addiction specialist prescribed suboxone (initially one 8mg strip first thing in the morning, plus 2mg at a time as needed) to get me through physical w/drawal from trams. I had tried quitting tramadol cold turkey several times previously, and c/t with trams made c/t with vicodin (did that back in the 1990s) seem like a walk in the park.

Suboxone was a godsend. No way i would have stopped trams w/o it.

Now tapering off subox. Down to just under 4mg per day.

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by Tallbean, Oct 01, 2012
@ iamdonenomore, goat farmer and full metal I did taper, but it was a short taper I just took away one pill a day... By the time I got down to two pills I started to really feel the w/d's so after my last dose one the two a day I just stopped... I figured if it was that bad on two , that I might as well just get it over with.... The physical withdrawl lasted only about three days.(achy, restless legs and arms, and so on) but then I started to feel better in that aspect .. I continued with mild Achiness, not being able to sleep and the anxiety.... After my 10 day free I started to get sleep at night now it's just the terrible anxiety.. I have nothing against natural supplements, but just trying to get through this without them.... I do believe its from the tram. And I just want to be normal again like before it... I am goin to give it a couple more days and if the anxiety does not start to decrease I will try a natural supplement...  As for what i would try im not sure as i see so many different things so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated .. Well on a much better note it has been 19 days free and Thanks to you all  for all the encouraging hope... I hope everyone has a good Monday!!!!

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by Tallbean, Oct 01, 2012
One more thing.... My above post still isn't clear on why I am not using a supplement for the anxiety,,, but it it  just makes me really angry that I would have to use something else to help with what this horrible evil drug has caused....  So I guess I just want to try and beat it with nothing.... That may be a silly way of thinking , but I just can't get over the fact  of what this drug had done to me while on or off them....

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by dalzona, Oct 01, 2012
Tallbean - the anxiety will slowly decrease.  I actually had a prescription of xanax filled 3 days after going C/T, I was a mess. My last tram was July 6, and I feel normal, have energy and only take an AD. I was on Tram for 4 years, never missing a day of at least 8 50mg.  You're doing absolutely fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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by Movebeyondthis, Oct 01, 2012
Tallbean, if you decide to get on a supplement, L-theanine, an amino acid, has helped me. I've been taking 300mg mid-day so I take as little klonopin as I can.

Goatfarmer, thank you so much for your encouragement. I hope your anxiety has gotten better or passed.  I can imagine how discouraging that felt.

I went back up to 2 1/2 pills a day.  Getting back on my antibiotics for Lyme after being off of them prematurely for several months caused a die- off reaction, a "herxheimer" reaction.  It was dangerous for me to be off of them any longer.  So I'm going to hang here at this tram level until I'm back on all of the Lyme meds and stable.  I add the second antibiotic today, then the anti parasitic herb for Babesia next week (so three meds in total).  They make me nauseous and exacerbate my Lyme symptoms for a while, then I start to feel better than when I started them.

So I'm looking at this as a bump in the road or a little edit to my map.  There are times a I think about inpatient detox to make a jump when my Lyme stabilizes.

Fullmetal, do you have any advice or knowledge of in-patient detox for tramadol?  Not sure how seriously they take it.  I'm also on klonopin 1mg twice a day which I've built a tolerance too.  Just really exhausted from all of this.  At times I feel I want a break and more support.  Just thought I'd at least explore the idea.

Much Love

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 01, 2012
Humbled- thanks for posting about using suboxone to get off tramadol. I tried to c/t off tramadol several times, as well. Absolute 'otherworldly' crushing and excruciating anxiety....as well as all the other symptoms ....no sleep, body like lead, hopeless depression...etc....we know the drill. I could not get off tramadol without the aide of medication to support the withdrawal syndrome either. I used to work with young adult heroin addicts that wanted off. The program used suboxone taper and clonidine. Worked great! I like having the info about suboxone on this thread so readers are aware of the option.  I have read several posters comment that tramadol w/d is more complex  difficult ( and lengthy) when compared to vicodin, percocet, heroin. Every day further away from that last tramadol feels amazing.
Tall bean- I know you are angry at the tramadol but why punish your body? Tramadol has already done that for you. Now that tram is out of your system of course your chemistry is going to be waaaay out of balance. The supplements suggested on this thread help replete and balance chemistry while literally every cell is learning to withdraw and go on without the presence of the little white pill of doom. my anxiety got much better after 28 days free. I could not handle the waves of depression and anxiety I experienced in early tram withdrawal without lots of help. In addition to the supplements I HAD to use clonidine and a low dose antidepressant. So....you are tolerating this period of withdrawal symptoms admirably. Just be mad at the drug, though. Be very supportive of your body. It has and is taking a beating being dependent on, then learning to find balance without the tram. You could think of these supplemental helpers as ammunition...just a thought.
Hi dalzona! Great to hear from you!
Feeling pretty good over here. keep going! No surrender!


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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 01, 2012
Move beyond! There you are! It has been a long exhausting wean. I really don't know how you do it. You are amazingly strong and focused! A few questions....you have indicated you cannot be away from work. Have you decided it would be worth it to you to take some time off, now? I have seen suboxone work well in practice and humbled is finding it very helpful. Many detox centers seem to flounder a bit when it comes to tramadol withdrawal. I think you could easily call first and discuss their experience helping people with tram. I wouldn't go in until I'd evaluated this, though. I can see why this idea appeals to you now. I think you would find a better place just getting to the other side with the tramadol use.
You are in exhausting withdrawal week after week. I think it important for you to factor in your systemic Lymes illness.
It is impossible to know how this complicates your withdrawal but I think you can very safely believe it makes withdrawal MUCH more complicated!! The scope of tram withdrawal without the lymes component made me want to be put in a coma for about 10 days. Much love. You ARE doing this. And very well. I am glad you are interested in exploring some other options.

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by EpiphanyRose, Oct 01, 2012
Fullmetal
You've posted that you use clonidine. I have clonidine but I'm a little nervous about it since it can make a person's blood pressure go way down.  My blood pressure and heart rate are up so I've been sticking with a very small dose (1/2 pill) which brings my bp down to normal. (from about 150/90 to 120/77) If I take more, will it make my BP crash? It doesn't seem to have much effect on my heart rate which has been running around 100.
So glad to have found all of you and a place to ask questions and find some understanding. Love ya ALL!

Rose

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by goatfarmer, Oct 01, 2012
Ok bitter sweet moment.......
Just tossed all the rest of my tramadol! over 50 pills around! It felt soooo good but..... is it ok to say I wanted to cry too?! These little pills controlled my life so long! I am NOT tempted to take them at all but.......I must admit I was sad to see them go. How WEIRD is that! My little white upper that made everything go away! Temporarily that is!
I am certain I will need something for my anxiety unless it magically disappears. I want an antidepressant that doesn't cause me to gain weight because I am 40 now so it likes to hang on and not let go. Anyway.....

Still having residual anxiety! Its strange! I just feel tense! almost like my blood sugar is too high! A little agitation or almost like I drank too much coffee.  That weird muscle tensing at times just overall anxious feeling. Need to give myself a break I am sure it has to do with upcoming birth of baby on Oct 16th! and the lack of sleep! lol.

Hoping I can feel more relaxed soon! :)
Anxiety REALLY stinks! I kinda swing between the two. But I still feel extremely good to be free! I was having anxiety during my 8-9 months of tapering anyway so big deal that I have it now! Nothing new so that is good!
Just wishing it would end!

This really is SO worth it though! SO worth it! Feels so good to be free!
Hang on warriors... you will be free and it is incredible feeling!


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by Movebeyondthis, Oct 01, 2012
Fullmetal, thanks for your insight. I talked to my husband and he agreed its worth calling a center to find how they treat & view tramadol withdrawal. I have also considered taking a leave of absence from work. Not sure if I can, financially or otherwise. I feel like I could use a month or more. I will talk to my lyme Dr when i see him on the 16th and hang in there until then. Thank you for understanding and articulating what I'm going through. What a fight we are all facing or have faced.  It feels merciless but I still believe in the light at the end of the tunnel.

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by goatfarmer, Oct 01, 2012
Epiphonyrose: Thank you so much for your encouragement! honestly though I don't think I would have tapered if I wasn't pregnant! It was a huge motivator for me! I never had the will power before really! SO I can't take all the credit it was for baby. :)  You CAN do this! I know you can! What I have found to be most helpful is go 7-10 days between tapers! Then when you get to the end I made it more like 14 day tapers. I believe I started tapering in Jan/Feb but can't remember exactly for sure. It was around that time. Some times I extended it a little longer if I had to but I was determined! The key is to not UP your dose once tapered!  And not to look for excuses to keep taking it.  You can do it! I am rooting for you!!

Dalzona: How refreshing to see you are not suffering with anxiety like you were! I hope to be there soon to! I can do it I can do it! I may need help with a antidepressant though.

Fullmetal: what can I say but you are the best encourage ever! Not sure I could have continued without your encouragement. I did it! I through the dang pills away. It was empowering yet is it wierd I felt a little sad? perhaps my emotions are getting the best of me right now and that is why! This little pill and I had been able to conquer anything. Suddenly its gone and I am learning new coping skills like you it is going to take work. But so freeing indeed. My anxiety really isn't thought induced it is just there! Like I drank 3 cups of coffee and I feel kinda wired! I do have some fears going through my head with the upcoming birth but for the most part I just feel kinda anxious and not relaxed no matter what my thought processes are lol. Just gonna keep hangin and realize it will pass!  

Movebeyond: I have been were you are. Be gentle with yourself  and do consider getting detoxed if you feel you need it. Don't let pain control you you control the pain! The pain of cutting back tramadol is unbearable at times and if you need to up your dose for a day or two then so be it but don't do anymore then that or you will easily be back where you were. BTDT!  Its discouraging I know! I am not familiar with lymes so I can't speak for the pain associated with it but I had  debilitating pain coming off tramadol and let me tell you its temporary! You  may find your pain gets even better off of it! I did! My pain hasn't been near as heli$h now that I am off. Doesn't make sense to me but..... i have heard it for others too! You are doing an incredible job of tapering. Keep up the good work. Stay focused on beating this devil! YOu CAN DO IT! Even with the lymes!  I know you can. You are a strong person! NO doubt about it! Think of how much better you will feel not having this hang over your head! Hang in there honey!  Your doing it! You are at a hard part now. I got stuck at the 2 a day level for awhile if I remember right! Sending you hugs!

Tallbean: So proud of you! I UNDERSTAND where you are! The anxiety can be debilitating! Hang in there. L-theanine which I need to go get today works ok for anxiety. TOTALLY safe! they have not been able to induce toxicity from what I understand! Be gentle with yourself!  Your kicking butt! :D Way to go!

Keep up the good work ya all! Isn't it freeing?

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 01, 2012
Rose- what dose clonidine do you have? You certainly won't dump your BP if you take a whole pill. Your cardiovascular system has several checks and balances to maintain pressure. Clonidine blocks alpha receptors but don't worry-
your nervous system ( think bridge of starship enterprise) would never let the system collapse. Back ups upon backups. I've taken .4mg clonidine at a time!! I imagine that is 4 whole pills of what you have. I understand the concern. If you have been taking 1/2 you will easily handle a whole one. No worries. It might make you feel a little tired, but you probably already are.  We give clonidine for narcotic withdrawal irregardless of the BP. Withdrawal always elevates pulse and BP tho. It feels better to have it down a bit, doesn't it?
FARMER!!! (woot) very very cool getting rid of the tram. There is a 'mental' security in just havin some pills around.
Cause, you know, if the sky falls, plane crashes into your home, Martians invade or asteroid plows into the earth...
your all set. No need to wait for the fed ex guy when the holocaust is upon you. Who has time for that?
Seriously, it is like throwing the security blanket into the fire. It is sad. And cool. Naked but free. I am SO PROUD OF YOU! What are we going to do about that anxiety, girl? I went on utube last night and listened to some relaxation music with video. AND there is no amount of anxiety that a hot bath won't diminish- at least some degree. Maybe you should go get a massage? You'd have to lay on your side but that would work...press on sweet mama!
Move beyond- you are right there, hon. It is just over the next hill. Hang on and take it one day at a time. Any of these ideas you are considering would be a great help for you. I know you are exhausted but I am excited for you.
Your first day of no tram ( with whatever help you decide upon) is going to be a very important day for you. It was for me. You will be released from the shackles. It does something very important mentally. I had some idea how much it was bothering me to be addicted but didn't realize the extent of the weight within that mad slavery until the first day free. Like a butterfly fights free of the chrysalis...hard work but finally the wings can spread. And then?
You'll fly.
Much love

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by EpiphanyRose, Oct 01, 2012
Fullmetal-you are right. I have the .1mg clonidine. I took a full one today because my bp just wouldn't come down and heart rate was around 115 just sitting at my desk. The clonidine has me feeling much better.  

Farmer-thanks for the tips. I made this big old spreadsheet for reducing 1/2 tablet a week for a while then slowing down the taper the lower I get. I know I'll get to the point where I can only reduce 1/2 or so a month, but for now, I'd like go down a bit even tho it may not be too comfortable.  Now that I've learned that so many of the things that were making me miserable is due to the tramadol, I WANT OFF! But, I'm also an abject coward!!  

I have some questions for everyone.  I learned that my brain fog isn't Alzheimer's. That's a great relief.  And, that the "shopaholic" problem is due to the Tram. Wow! Who knew!!!  How about these next items:  Has anyone had a great deal of hair loss?  I used to have a lot of hair, but it's falling out (just started about a year or so ago).  And, has anyone had a problem with stiff joints, especially stiff knees?  How about really dry mouth and dry eyes. Anyone have a problem with that?



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by nannero, Oct 01, 2012
Wow!  Lots of wonderful, supportive posts today!  I'm off to bed shortly so can't address everyone individually.  All of you that are tapering are so strong!  My taper was 3 days-lol.  I knew if I tried any type of strict taper I couldn't go through with it.  I'm not that strong.  The clonidene helped me so much during acute withdrawals. (Thank you again fullmetal!) I've had anxiety before, but that was insane!  I'm not taking clonidene now although I have a few pills left-just in case.  Typical addict behavior, I know :-)   I've been taking L-theanine and that's helped a lot, too, with anxiety.  When I was still taking clonidene I got so tired during the day at work I couldn't take it until late afternoon.  I take L-theanine a few times a day and that seems to help.  If I remember correctly it's the ingredient in green tea-minus the caffiene.  Is that right?
Rose, to answer a few of your questions.  Yes, I've had a lot of hair loss.  I attributed it to age, but it happened pretty quickly. Until 4 or 5 years ago I always had it thinned.  Now I can't even get it layered because I was told it would really look too thin!  Yes, I have stiff joints, but that is getting better every day.  A knee problem was one of the reasons I was given tramadol.  Helped for a little bit, but by then I was hooked and had to still take it. I really noticed dry eyes when I quit tramadol.  I wear contacts and besides having trouble focusing, it felt like I was pulling off my corneas when I took them out at night.  At least my eyes are back to normal now.  From what I've read on here when you start a taper you do have slight withdrawal symptoms until your body gets used to the lower dosage of tramadol.  Sounds like everything you're experiencing is normal when you're dealing with this insane drug.    I can tell you're very determined to get off trammies and you're doing it the smart way.  Stay tough!  

It does get a little better every day.  I'm learning to listen to my body now and trying to take better care of myself.  The insane energy from the trammies is a thing of the past (thank God!) and I've realized I don't have to try and be Superwoman anymore.  At least now, anyway, when I try to be her I pay for it the next day. Like today-ugh! I'm a slow learner, but I'll get it one of these days :-)

I hope everyone has a wonderful Tuesday!

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by looking4help43, Oct 02, 2012
Hello there....
I am so very glad that I have found this chat group!!! Seriously.... I have been on trams for about 3 years now... I range from 8-12 50 mg daily. I am 25 years old...and have a 4 year old daughter. I was prescribed tramadol for Endometriosis a few years back.... this drug has completely taken over my life! I too....just fear running low on supply...its an every day battle in my head! I have tried a few different times to go cold turkey. The w/d is just so damn unbearable!!! How do any of you going through this....go to work....take care of kids....or even do anything?? Seriously....at about day 2-3......I am sicker then sick!!! My fiance is a recovering methadone addict...he quit cold turkey almost a year ago....after a 7 year addiction to heroin....and a 5 year addiction to methadone! I am very very proud of him....however I hide the fact that I have an addiction now... I dont want to make him relapse or anything....also when I get sick...because I dont have them....its so damn hard to try and keep that from him! I suffer from insomnia and depression as well....it was something I had before the tram.....but also something that has escalated since starting them! When I went cold turkey the first time....I literally did not sleep for 6 days straight.... honestly...I got maybe 2 or 3...one hour power naps in the 6 days. I ended up in the emergency room because I was so sick and delerious at that point!!! I need help!!! I need to get off of these for once and all!!!! I want to have another baby...and cant do so...until I beat this addiction!!!! I want my normal life back!!!!!! The sad thing....is its getting to the point...where I cant even remember "life before trams"...... I hate it! I hate this drug! A TINY pill with HUGE consequences!!! What is the best way to taper?? I am at 12 a day now....please...someone point me in the right direction......please!!!!!!    Thank you for listening!!!!!   Jess

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by Movebeyondthis, Oct 02, 2012
Welcome Jess!  I was where you were, taking the same amount, for over two years, boyfriend (now husband) didn't know.  I was able to go down a pill a week until I got to 6 a day and then started to slow down a little. Everyone is different and you'll have to see what your body can handle. Up until now I was going down 1/2 pill every 7-12 days. Some steps down were easier than others so I could do them more quickly.  

I found the greatest relief in being honest with my husband but your situation may be different.  I don't know if it would be a threat to his sobriety or if you would find incredible support in him as a recovering addict.  Fullmetal, a crisis nurse, can better speak about that I think (and all of this really).  So can Goatfarmer as she successfully tapered completely down over an 8 month period.  Getting a script for clonidine was a lifesaver for me.  

Farmer & Fullmetal, thank you both for your incredible support and encouragement.  Thank you to Nannero too.  I'm going to hang here at 2 1/2 for as long as I need to.  I want to stabilize here a bit, get up and brush myself off and with added strength continue on like I had.  I have no thoughts whatsoever of going backwards and ruining this taper.  There is no way I would give back all this hard work.  It so helped to hear that it's just in reach.  I'm almost there.  Gosh, what would I do without you all??  My husband is grateful for you all also.

My heart is full.  Much love.

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by EpiphanyRose, Oct 02, 2012
Hi Jess!  I also had a range of 8 to 12 pills per day. I went down to 10 and stayed there for a week. Then I decreased by 1/2 (so at 9 1/2) about 4 days ago. I plan on decreasing another 1/2 today or tomorrow.  Although I'm feeling the effects of deceasing, it really isn't too bad.  Right now, I'm having a problem with my blood pressure going up and rapid heartbeat. I am taking clonidine for this problem and it works very well. Plus it calms anxiety. It can make you tired so I take small doses during the day and a larger one at night. It helps me sleep.  Read FullMetal's posts for more about clonidine. And, keep hanging out. This is such a positive place with wonderful people.

Nannero, thanks for the reply.  Anyone else experience hair loss, stiff joints, dry mouth or eyes?

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 02, 2012
Rose- I am glad are using the clonidine to help you both in the day and at night. I still use it for sleep. I believe it is important to keep your anxiety reasonable. Especially in your wean plan. You get to feel you have some strategies for controlling the withdrawal feelings. Yes- very dry eyes and hair loss. Also serious joint pain which resolved after 14 days off tram. I did not really wean. I did a 4 day taper like nannero --so essentially c/t. Spread sheet, huh?
I wrote out several taper plans and deviated from them 100% of my trials.  Started to get the idea that while tapers  are doable for some of us I most likely wasn't in that category. I sure wanted to be. I did get sick of trying and failing although I tried c/t before and failed that, too. THIS IS A VERY TOUGH SPOT. I considered a lifetime of tram use and just letting it own me. Not acceptable. I wanted to be ok with this, too, so I wouldn't have to face getting off these little white liars.
I think everyone finds their own watershed moment. or it just shows up and you have to grab it like a brass ring.
I would say, Jess, that information plus support are key. I read this post for hours. Went back to the beginning of emily's journey. I learned a ton of strategies. I felt like I knew the posters. I felt inspired to get free. I started to believe it had to be possible for me, somehow. I got the help of a good doctor and was able to tell him what interfered with my success.
For me it was the depression and anxiety. I wasn't crazy about the lethargy, nausea, chills and sweats restless legs and sleep problems...but these things were not my triggers for relapse. The depression and anxiety were.
He helped me with those. He put me on clonidine and effexor. I learned on this thread to use nyquil for sleep in the early days of c/t and it did help. The clonidine helped with sleep, too. Heating pad, hot baths for the restless legs. You get the idea. This can be done. Most people consider it one of the most difficult experiences they have had in life.
It $ucks! It sounds like you are at the point of deep willingness to do this deal.
You will find people on this thread who have not told their loved one, and people who have. If you are going to hide a c/t withdrawal you might end up being nominated for an Oscar. You would have to have a whopping flu, girl.
Which is doable. Your heart will tell you what you need to do about this piece.
You will find many taper schedules posted throughout the threads. Several different strategies. You might settle on a plan but don't worry about slowing down or speeding up if you find you want to do it a bit different than originally planned. Sometimes you just have to feel it in your body to know what makes sense.  
How are you taking your 12 a day?
49 days clean today. Much stress and conflict at work. I keep getting through these demanding days pretty well.
I NEVER thought I could do this. I loved what nannero said about resigning from the superwoman syndrome.
Me too! I think I liked 'getting stuff done' because it assuaged my general feeling of inadequacy.
Much of my negative feelings about myself had to do with being a secret slave to this drug, however. Vicious

NO WITHERING IN THE PRESENCE OF TRAM WITHDRAWALS! GET PI$SED! STARE IT DOWN! Every ache, pain,
chill and sweat, sleepless hour....is that little white demon trying to convince you that you can't be free, can't live without it. Tram is a parasite. It has no life until it takes over yours.  it is not going to let go without a hellacious struggle. This is a battle for your life back. GET ALL THE HELP YOU NEED. If you are starting to weaken call a doctor and tell him/her the truth. Get help. NEVER EVER SURRENDER!


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by HumbledXtian, Oct 02, 2012
@ Tallbean,

I agree with Fullmetal: if you need a supplement of some kind, herbal or otherwise, then you should take it. Taking vitamins, herbs, nutritional supplements, etc. to get healthy and get your life back IS NOT the same thing as taking Trams to feed your addiction.

**Don't let foolish machismo or pride get in the way of permanent recovery.

Are you working with your doctor? (S)he might have helpful advice.

@ all others: praying for all of you. I feel very proud and fortunate to be battling this drug side-by-side with all of you.


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by lemomtree22, Oct 03, 2012
Hi  i am on day 10 of coming of this drug. i was given it 7 months ago after knee operation. My doctor said take 8 pill a day, to help with movment. I never felt right, and did not know how bad they were. I was told by someone that i must cut down, as they were bad. I cut down one a week, till my last 50 gram capsule. I could not cut it down. Went into withdrawal,no sleep flu like feeling and head pain. Now i am still not sleeping, and depression. I had no one to talk to, but i knew i had to get off this drug. I got rid of all my pills last night. I want to feel okay again. I am seeing my doctor this afternoon, she does not think this drug is that bad. I am going to tell what i think, and what it has done to me.  My hart is with you all. You are all a great help to me, to keep going.

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by Suew125, Oct 03, 2012
Well it looks like this is the place for me!  I have been taking vicodin for 6 months now for hip pain and my dr. just switched me to Tramadol.  I am tapering off of the Vic on to the Tramadol, slowly.  I read these horror stories and wonder why I got put on this stuff!!!!  I need something for pain to be able to ride my horse, which is my passion!!!  Maybe I will go back to vic only and keep it under 40mg/day?!


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by EpiphanyRose, Oct 03, 2012
Sue, I've been on Tramadol for 12 years.  I'd give ANYTHING to go back in time and be able to make a decision as to whether to take it or not.  Without it, I was mostly bedridden, couldn't hardly walk. Knowing what I know now, I'd like to think I wouldn't take it.  It is a tough decision.  The thing is, your doctor may not be doing what's best for YOU, but what's best for him/her.  That's because Vicodin is a scheduled drug that is closely monitored by DEA.(And the DEA comes down heavy on doctors that prescribe "too much".)   Tramadol is not scheduled and not monitored. My humble opinion...if you can talk your doctor into letting you stay on the Vicodin, I would stay on it.  As I'm sure everyone will tell you, Tramadol has an antidepressant in it. That antidepressant makes it absolute H E L L to come off of.  You don't need it!!!
Good luck
Rose

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by Tallbean, Oct 03, 2012
Well today is day 21... So for that I am  excited!! As for the anxiety thank you all for the input. I have decided to try the L- theanine . I just can not take all this anxiety. I DO NOT want to ever go back to these evil little white pills .. I am going to stop torturing myself and try it..(hoping it helps)..  I guess I  just have to accept the fact that I might need help after all even though the reason is because of the trams...  And that I'm not being weak , but hopefully being strong so nothing ever sends me back to them..... Well hoping everyone stays strong, and has a wonderful day no matter where they are in getting and or staying off  of these horrible Little pills

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by EpiphanyRose, Oct 03, 2012
Sue, one more thing.  Tramadol helps with pain AT FIRST!  Over time, it helps less and less.  In fact, it makes the pain WORSE.  So many stories of people who took it for pain and when they finally got off of Tramadol, discovered that their pain was gone or at least much less. It would be very helpful (in making your decision) to go back and read the beginning of Emily's journal.

Rose

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by Suew125, Oct 03, 2012
Thank you Rose for the information!  From what my Drs office said it DOES sound like it's more of an issue about the vic being a narcotic....but if the tram is so addictive and all of the other things I've read FORGET IT!!!  No more for me!  I have been taking the tram for 4-5 days and am stopping it NOW!
Called my dr's office and they referred me to pain management.  I am hoping they will keep me on the vicodin because it really helps with the pain and I can keep riding my horse daily while I am taking it!  Eventually I will have to have the rod pulled out of my femur and a new hip, afterwhich I can no longer ride.
Do pain clinics keep people on vicodin or are they just as rigid as my doc?

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by EpiphanyRose, Oct 04, 2012
Never been to a pain clinic, Sue.  I don't know how they operate.

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by goatfarmer, Oct 04, 2012
I agree with Rose it helps for pain at first and then pain increases telling your brain to take more and more and then when you go off the pain you get is unbearable.  My pain is actually BETTER now! ITs wild!
I would rather do a heavy pain pill then this crap again. While I have never been addicted to a "heavy" one I have been addicted to smoking, darvocet and they were CAKE WALK compared to this stuff.
Rose how is your tapering going?

Movebeyond: be proud of yourself hon. Your doing awesome! You can beat it! I have full confidence!

Tallbean what can I say exept I am where you are! Dang the anxiety is annoying! Comes out of no where, random fashion and its enough to make me crazy. :) I feel for you because i am doing it too! I am hanging on to the hope it will eventually fade to black! :) Doing GREAT minus the anxious feelings! feeling like I am adreneline! thats the only way I know how to explain it. I keep meaning to get the ltheanine and forget so I need to run to town. I hear it works. I tried it only once or twice. Seemed to help a little if I remember.  
I really don't have depression anymore just feeling high on adreneline alot! depression is mild and comes and goes anxiety is driving me now! NO rhyme no reason but its MUCH worse after I eat! :(  Makes me scared to eat because every time I know I will have jittery feelings afterword.

Last night I did get sad. Sad that this little white pill lied to me for so long. Sad that I allowed it too and now am suffering some serious consequences of my actions residual anxiety. I have struggled a bit with anxiety in my 20's but it wasn't NEARLY as bad as it has gotten now that I am off tramadol! Gawd this pill is freakin' evil. It truly should be banned!

hugs to all the people in the midst of w/d. I can't even tell you how freeing it is to be off this devil! Never looking back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So worth it!

Ps I think tramadol effects your long term health by screwing with your thyroid and adrenals. My sister who was taking over 20 a day is a mess endocrine wise. She has insulin resistance, low thyroid, low cortisol, tons of hormone issues and while I don't think its all 100% related to tramadol use I am sure it contributed. The hair falling out someone above was experiencing can be thyroid issues. Look into *************************

Hugs and love to you all going through this! Please know YOU CAN DO IT! YOU CAN BE FREE!

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by EpiphanyRose, Oct 04, 2012
Hi Farmer--So far, all good on the taper.  I'm going slow and the side effects have been minimal, mostly high blood pressure and fast heart rate. I'm taking clonidine for that.  I also get the anxiety, but its not bad. The clonidine helps with anxiety as well.  I'm also learning meditation as I need something NATURAL to help with stress.

I'm one of the ones with hair loss.  I did have my thyroid tested (TSH, FreeT3, FreeT4).  Results were all within normal parameters. So, I'm still blaming my hair loss on the Tram.

Hope you get the itheanine. I've heard good things about it. I know the anxiety $ucks as I first tried to taper really FAST and was just crippled by the anxiety.

Keep us posted, Farmer.  As I have said before, you are an inspiration for the rest of us!!

Love, Strength, and Courage to ALL!!!

Rose

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 04, 2012
Farmer and tallbean- I use picamilon for anxiety, too. It actually also helps with energy and focus. Weird but very nice combination. It is GABA and vit B6. The B6 allows the GABA to cross the blood brain barrier. just a supplement. Nothing fancy, pharmaceutical or addicting. I order it online from 'relentless improvement' a reputable supplier. It was developed in Russia and used for anxiety in alcohol and drug withdrawals. It has been around since the 80's. Is well researched and found effective. No untoward side effects.
L theanine is a GABA booster. Picamilon is GABA itself
All the benzo's - Xanax and it's family are GABA agonists but they have huge abuse potential and serious withdrawal profiles.
BUT as you can see by the anti anxiety drug action, GABA augmentation generally has a calming effect. Go online and do a bit of research for yourselves. The anxiety that tram withdrawal causes was overwhelming for me. I found I needed all the help I could get. FIGHT ON!!!!


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by Movebeyondthis, Oct 05, 2012
My Dr also just recommended passion flower fo anxiety from withdrawal.  I believe it also has GABA in it.  I haven't tried it yet.  I'm still taking L-theanine when needed.

I called a detox center and spoke with a very warm young addiction therapist.  I told her my concerns and she said I'd have a chance to have an assessment first with her, a psychiatrist and a nurse to see how best to treat me. Detox is generally 5-7 days but many people stay longer if insurance covers it.  Getting off the benzos too might add to my plea in this case.  My husband supports this and/or taking a month or two off (resigning, or taking leave or they may hire me back). I've really backslided with my Lyme. That may be what's contributing to pain too, I dont know.  Last night my husband said that it seems odd that I would have so much pain at 2 1/2 trams a day and to be at this level (and briefly even lower) for so long. It baffles me too and I recognize much of the pain from pre-tram.  Lyme treatment for a few months will hopefully help.  I will never go on an addictive pain med again.

I'm not tolerating the antibiotics and wake up with so much nausea every morning. I had to call in sick one day this week.  My Dr said with my small body mass that he is going to change my protocol but I'm waiting for a new script.  Geez, I guess this should all be on a Lyme board.

Anyway, I have a lot to think about.  I'm afraid a detox stay won't be long enough, they won't make me comfortable enough and I'll wish I was home going through detox with hot baths and my own bed.  I do just want to make the jump now.  The tapering feels like its driving me to madness.  I do realize acute withdrawal from making the jump is no walk in the park but at least I could get it over with.  I don't want to waste anymore time. I'm looking towards pregnancy and I'm at advanced maternal age and still have to get my Lyme under control.  Again, HUGE props to you Farmer for patiently and strongly tapering for so long!

Thanks for listening everyone.  I realize I didn't provide much encouragement or feedback in this post but I'm thinking about all of you every day, this family of tram warriors.  I bow to you.  Sending love and healing.

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by Tallbean, Oct 05, 2012
Well after 23 days free I decided that my house needed a major major scrubbing.... I have only had enough energy to keep it straightened  by the time I would get home from work make supper then spend time with my husband and kids I would be exhausted ... It felt good doing it on my own since for the past year the evil pill was making me super woman ( so I thought)... Well I am exhausted now but for me this was a major accomplishment since I would make sure my house was cleaned daily before dealing with the withdrawl... Hope everyone has a great rest of the day...

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by Movebeyondthis, Oct 05, 2012
Tallbean, congrats on 23 days free and on cleaning the house!  It may sound silly to those who haven't been on tramadol and gone through withdrawal.  I remember how much more energy I had and always kept my house spotless.  Now I at least try to straighten up the main level, do the dishes if my husband doesn't do them first and do the very minimum laundry I need to do for work.  It is indeed a great accomplishment Tallbean! :) Can't wait to be there.

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by LROOTBEER, Oct 06, 2012
I have been 19 days clean off this stuff. The only way I got through it this time was to take immodium ad. I only took two tabs the first day and had no rls and did not suffer the way I did before coming off before was awful and went back to trams again because it was soo bad. I was up to 17 pills of 50mg a day and was running out AGAIN. So this time with the help of immodium I had very little physical w/d this time and slept well every night. I am not making it up, they were an absolute Godsend! The main reason I wouldn't stop taking them was to avoid withdrawals which are to say the least debilitating. Its bad enough to withdraw but trust me without it i wouldn't have been able to stop and see if my pain was me or the med. And yes my hair isn't falling out as badly and all the ulcers on my skin have finally healed. Been on them for 15 years. Now am done. Do I still feel achy? yes, but is much better and manageable. Immodium will be ur bff in the first days of w/d. Start at two tabs and increase a tab at a time.

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by LROOTBEER, Oct 06, 2012
Oh and would like to say a big THANKYOU to all who post here. I have been reading all of these posts from way back. And because you all have been posting i now know how bad withdraws are on these, and that it's such a big problem. and been on them 15 long years.

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 06, 2012
Hello warriors!
Rootbeer- nice! Congrats on the 19 days. Big deal after 15 years. This stuff IS POISON.
Tallbean- it does feel good to get those bursts of energy. Very encouraging...like...maybe I will get my life back?
Movebeyond- how goes the battle today, dearest? All I feel sure of about your situation is that you will do whatever it takes to get free. Really...that is all that matters in the end. I believe your pain will calm down. It definitely gets magnified by the tram and weaning. For you, mentally, I look forward to your first day free. You'll see. Tram is wearing you down, girl. I know you won't let it rule you. But I DON'T like the way it has been messing with you, lately.

I've been busy. Off the effexor and now my second stimulant antidepressant. Also off sugar. Completely. Now for the nicorette gum. That is next. I am isolative. My work is a $hit $how. Someday I'll get back to yoga. I realize the AD's, while helpful with the tram withdrawal, on their own without the tram, shut me down. all this withdrawal is draining. I do feel good about it. I can look out into the future in a different way. I don't need all that drug in me. I always thought I wanted the AD part of tram because I needed it. I do mega omegas. Really helps. Also all the supplements we have discussed. Taking it easy and know this will keep getting better. Feels like a world of health and healing has opened up after getting off the trams. I feel like I can really do this! I mean really....if tram can be conquered...what cant be?


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by Tallbean, Oct 07, 2012
Move beyond you will definitely get there!!!!!!  Full metal  all I have to say is if you can beat the tram you can beat anything...   This has definitely been a very trying time in my life  as I'm sure as been for anyone going through this, but  it is so worth it in the end!!!!!  We will all be looking back at this  one day and think wow we actually did it ... We got our lives back !!!  I think about you all daily  and send the much needed encouragement and hope we all need.... Have a great Sunday!!

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by bubblysmiler, Oct 07, 2012
hi am julie i have been addicted to tramadol for 7years i was on 20 a day am now down to 2in the morning and 2 at night i am proud of mysel but am so scared to come off the last four i tried just stopping when i was only taking two a day 6years ago and omg it was worse than coming off of heroin i managed to come off a heroin with cannibis buckets and a few vallys when i was 17 i am 30 now  imy doctor reffered me to a phychitrist who sent me away saying he could not help me untill i got off the tramadol i have spent years being told that tramadol withdrawels are phycological which with a little bit a reserch i know now is rubbish i went to drugs missuse i have been to 2 appointments and they want 2 more urine tests off me then want to start me on methadone the problem is i dont want methadone my brother has battled to come off it for years i have tried tapering down but when i have an appointment or i have to go to parents evening i end up taking more to get me throu it it like gives me a false confidence i have 4 kids aged 12 11 9 and 6 they dont know am on tramadol and i really dont like the idea of taking them to chemists everyday in the holidays i just dont know what to do i did have a horrific child hood but i know there is always someone out there who have had worse i am ready now to speak about my past i really want to move on with my life and not rely on a drug to get me throu it but i really cant cope without them i cant conversate anm like a reclouse without them iwhen i dont take enough i am so tired and got no motivation i know am depressed but i am depressed because i want off tramadol i want to talk about my child hood i am ready to put it all behind me but i cant without getting it all out 1st the drugs misuse have said that methadone is all they can offer me and if i dont want that then they cant help me they will write bk to my doctor and it will b up to him wither he keeps me on tramadol or not i too was buying them off the internet and the streets i just want an easy option i really believe if i got help to deal with my past i could maybe over come this addiction because of my past my confidence has really suffered if i got put on like  a confidence building course or phycjo therepy or something i could maybe achive getting off tramadol i have had addictions from 13years old one after the other from gambling to drugs to drink its just so tuff my question is  if my mum took my kids for a week and i got zopliclone sleeping tabs from doctor would it be safe to cold turkey from them people who have wrote about seisures have scared me cuz my mum and dad are epelectic  i have ashma too i really dont want another drug another addiction i just want to be me whoever me is i want to be the person i am on tramadol but without tramadol plz help me am desperate i just feel like there is no help out there i know methadone has been a sucess with alot of people but i know mysel i have an addictive personality it will just be another drug i get addicted to for years i am 30 year old av started college which means i have to face people everyday and that was part of the reason i got addicted cuz tramadol helped me face the world i couldnt even leave the house before i started taking them plz plz plz somebody help xx

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by bubblysmiler, Oct 07, 2012
how much would i be to go into rehab for a week or 2 x

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by HumbledXtian, Oct 08, 2012
Bubblysmiler,
first, welcome. You've done well by tapering down from 20 per day to 4--that's a huge accomplishment!

It's difficult to read your post because of the lack of punctuation and no paragraph breaks (sorry to sound like an English teacher but some punctuation would help!!).

I gather that you've kicked heroin, in the past, but are now in a life situation where it's difficult to find the time and resources (due to family and work) to kick trams. Have you spoke with your doctor about this? are your parents aware and willing to help out?

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 08, 2012
Julie- you have done very well! I support your resistance to methadone as an option. It is very hard to get off of. Tram is too, as you well know. The newer drug, suboxone, is overall easier to work with during transfer, withdrawal and eventual wean. YES! The last 4 trams a day are truly he!! to come down from. You know all the w/d symptoms, the lethargy, anxiety and depression-- soooo difficult. You CAN do this. It is a rough road but not by any means impossible. I read through this post for hours and learned many strategies. You will find someone who took a path that makes sense to you. Follow that person, and others, and all of us-- and make a plan. See a different doctor until you find someone you feel good about working with. I do know how emotional pain from the past can feel crippling and drive addictions. I was and am always inspired by my own children to break the cycle and face myself as best I can without letting an addiction own me. I fail at times, and falter- but lately I've gotten up, again, brushed myself off and am continuing to move away from the slavery of addiction. DONT PANIC! You CAN do this. Stay on the 4 a day until you get a SOLID plan in place to finish getting off this b@stard of a drug. I used an antidepressant and an anti anxiety
( clonidine- non addicting and specific for opiate withdrawal anxiety) to get off tram. Others did the suboxone...
There are plenty of different strategies....read the post and get ideas and knowledge. Tramadol is best faced armed with as much information as you can get.  Keep posting. We are here for you!

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by Movebeyondthis, Oct 09, 2012
Bubblysmiler, I agree with what others said. It's a HUGE accomplishment to go from 20 to 4!  It started to get tougher for me around that time.  There are different paths to take and it really is about finding which is best for you.  You can do it if you really want it.  Don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it.  Clonidine seems to me like such a good choice for the increase in blood pressure and anxiety and it's not addictive.  

So I've decided to go to a detox center if my insurance covers it, likely only for the minimum of 5-7 days, I'm guessing as they may not see my situation as serious as other drug users.  I don't know.  I hope I can stay longer.  I'm giving my work plenty of notice and plan to go at the very beginning of November, expecting to take a few weeks off.  Tapering in the beginning seemed like and was a good option, but I've decided to make the jump and with help.  I told one of my co-workers and very close friends at work and she seemed relieved as she's watched me struggle for the past few months and especially the last month, even as I tried to put a smile on my face most of the time.  I feel relieved too and just pray it all falls into place.

Much love to everyone.  Hang in there bubblysmiler.  Make a plan that you think will work for you and know you can change it if you need to as time goes on.  I know you can do it.  

I cannot wait to be free of this drug!!  I admit I'm scared too.

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by HumbledXtian, Oct 09, 2012
Movebeyond,

pullling for you. Will join you in prayer that "it all falls into place."

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by Movebeyondthis, Oct 09, 2012
HumbledXtian, thank you.  It's my faith that keeps me going.

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by Movebeyondthis, Oct 09, 2012
Bubblysmiler, how are you doing? If you have insurance, treatment at a detox center may be covered.  This is the choice I've made with the hope that insurance will cover it.  If you feel you can't do ths alone, explore this option, or seeing an addiction specialist or a Dr. who will help you through this.  

Fullmetal, how are you doing?  I sent you a message.

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by goatfarmer, Oct 10, 2012
Quick update~
Baby came 12 days early! She was 7 lbs 13 oz and PERFECT apgar 9/9 PERFECT baby in every way! Born Monday at 8 in the morning. she is 2 days old and sweet as pie! healthy as a horse! So relieved and anxiety is gone! :)
No time to read through posts right now but hope all is well with everyone! Hang tight and beat this battle its SO worth it! No looking back not even a temptation! WOOT~

Hugs and love
Goatfarmer

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by HumbledXtian, Oct 10, 2012
Fantastic goatfarmer!

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by Tallbean, Oct 10, 2012
Goat farmer that is such exciting news!!!!

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by EpiphanyRose, Oct 10, 2012
WOW!!! So happy for you, farmer. You worked so hard for this fabulous result.



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by Movebeyondthis, Oct 10, 2012
Congratulations Goatfarmer!!!  Such wonderful news!  You worked so hard to keep your baby healthy and you did it!!!  I'm so happy to hear your anxiety is gone.  Now you can enjoy the time with your precious baby girl :) Big hug

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 11, 2012
Yeah sweet farmer! Perfect! Sooo glad the anxiety is gone. You DID IT! Tell us her name....get some rest. Send more news as you are able! Much love
Move beyond- I've written you 3 notes and the site wouldn't let me send them! I am very happy you have a plan for the rest of your journey off these horrid pills. You've done very very well. The detox is for you. You don't have to make a case. It is well documented, especially on this post that heroin addicts consider tram w/d more complex and difficult. No matter the 'schedule' of the drug. If you run into a detox personnel who needs some education about tramadol withdrawal send them to this journal. (also insurance carriers) they might need educating, too.
A month should do it. Again....perfect!
Brave and courageous warriors....fight on!

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by peterovski, Oct 11, 2012
Hi everyone, can't believe I missed 2 (or is it 3?) entire posts. I haven't been active, I know, I'm sorry.

I haven't relapsed and I've successfully tapered off benzos. I'm still feeling depressed and anxious alot, but it has gotten alot better. I still take my magnesium religiously every day, don't know if it's still doing anything but well.

Good luck everyone getting off tramadol right now, it's a tough one but you can make it!

Peterovski

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by goatfarmer, Oct 11, 2012
Thanks for the congrats!~
Her name is Ariana! She is so sweet and perfect! Going to her first appt today! YAY!
I just have this HUGE relief off my shoulders. Month to month always wondering what I had done to my precious angel while on this. God was watching out for me and gentle and gracious!
Guilt is a huge one to kick for sure!
Anyway she is so perfect you wouldn't believe it! :)

IN pain from csection but doing really really well!

Everyone hang in there! this is so dang worth it! Movebeyond sweetie you are in my thoughts honey!


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by TRAMMAN999, Oct 11, 2012
I'm not new around here. Some of you will remember me when I posted a lot. Been on and off using, and  cold turkey many times, but unfortunately for, whatever reason, have relapsed.
Keeping details of history to a minimum I just wanted to ask a question  -  because this is a new approach for me. As I said always cold turkey. At this point I am on a huge daily dosage - want to get off, but this time can't face c/t because my health is wrecked (thru using Tramadol for so long in large amounts) and am so, so weary. Can't make it c/t.In short " I am desperate " ! An ever disintigrating personality whilst  using this stuff.
So, to the point, the info/feedback I need from anyone who has experienced/knows anyone/advice from :

I have an opportunity to jump off Tramadol onto Suboxone as an outpatient at no cost - and in theory become stabalised/stronger/more confidence/ less chance of relapse.I do know that it is a powerful opiate that one doesn't get a high from  This over a period of time  - .. say 8 weeks plus.I  really, really cannot believe that one can jump from a long large use of Tram onto another medication and " not " feel withdrawal. Very skeptical, synical, and disbelieving !? I only have to go 2 hours over a certain point and all hell lets loose. Can suboxene cope with this vicious onslaught.  

" Or is it a fairy story !? "  Thanks in desperate expectation.     TRAMM  

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by peterovski, Oct 12, 2012
Suboxone should take care of the opiate dependency, and even if you take tramadol on top of it you will not experience a high so it's a good restraint. The only part about sub that concerns me is the SRI action that tramadol has. You will still feel withdrawals from that even if you make the switch.

It will however help spread out the withdrawals and make them alot less severe. I'm not too sure how bad withdrawing from sub itsself is so that's one thing I can't comment on.

Good luck tramman. And yeah, I do remember you. :)

Also congratulations goatfarmer. I hadn't read through any of the replies when I posted earlier so I didn't see it before, but anyway, a big congratz to you and your bundle of joy! Ariana is a beautiful name. ;-)

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 12, 2012
Tram man- hello! Yes, I remember you:). Ive worked with people coming off heroin and transferring to suboxone in a detox facility ( being a nurse). The addiction MD always factored how much heroin they were using to set the suboxone initial dose. The MD also was very careful about the timing of the first dose so the suboxone would not 'hit' too early and cause withdrawal. The patients did amazingly well on suboxone.
Suboxone is now being used as a long term maintenance drug, slowly replacing methadone in that market. It surpasses methadone as a treatment for this use in many ways.
Petrovski makes an excellent point above, about the AD component....I think the suboxone will handle that part as well, though, because opiates have so much neurotransmitter activity on their own. I think the suboxone will uphold that part of trams activity very well.



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by HumbledXtian, Oct 12, 2012
Tramman,

I'm on Day 33 of kicking tramadol by using suboxone under a doctor's care. The first several days on suboxone you'll be very lethargic and maybe even slightly "fluish." But the horrible withdrawals that come with c/t won't happen.

Suboxone is an interesting drug from a user's standpoint--no high or euphoria (the first dose you might feel a bit of a high but none after that). Yet it satisfies the cravings for the high.

I'm now tapering down my suboxone intake.The first several days of detox, I took a full film strip of suboxone each day, which is 8 mgs. By the end of the first week, I was down to 4 mgs per day and have steadily tapered since then. My goal, subject to my physician's approval of course, is be suboxone free by the end of November or December.

Some people  bad-mouth suboxone, arguing that it's merely exchanging one addiction for another. I don't buy that because if used properly suboxone can be a wonderful tool for recovery.

After several years of tramadol addiction (800-1200 mgs per day) I'm  gradually getting my health, personality, libido, and self-confidence back. I'm saving hundreds of dollars per month by not ordering expensive massive quantities of tramadol from online pharmacies (though admittedly, I'm fortunate to have good insurance that pays for the suboxone prescriptions). My doctor is carefully monitoring my suboxone intake, and I attend group counseling sessions twice per week that are teaching me tools that will help prevent relapse.

Praise God, I'm getting my life back. You can do it too. I'll be happy to answer any questions about specifics.

Good luck.

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 12, 2012
Humbled- did you/do you use the clonidine with the suboxone? In detox, we always used both and the opiate addicts got a nice range of withdrawal coverage from this combo.
I am soooo glad you found your addiction MD. I really love hearing that his/her program encourages / offers the group
sessions for help with life after substance abuse. I am glad you posted about your experience. It is helpful for the journal to have this information on the board. So many of us are grinding through this withdrawal and weaning at home.
It is such a desperate struggle. I tried weaning so many times and knew I'd have to do c/t because of the nature of my behavior in addiction to tram. I could not keep to a weaning schedule. I'd come up with some threadbare excuse to deviate from my wean....there were plenty of those....and funny, but they can be manufactured at will, if necessary, too.
At least they can by me. The first time I did c/t I was in the ER once, urgent care once AND 2 Dr clinic appointments within the first week and a half. I hadn't found this journal and learned any strategies yet and I was in complete collapse. Within the second week c/t that first time i was sitting in an EMERGENCY psychiatric appointment. Stripped, almost non-functional.
I went back on tramadol within weeks....I wasn't making it without the drug. I now have 59 days. I had to use effexor and clonidine. I still use the clonidine every day and just weaned off the effexor last week. The cravings are nil. I get good support. I have had some very difficult life situations come up and STILL have no tram cravings. What a relief. My coping skills, support system, this post and some helpful medications are working great. Took me 3 years to find a combination that worked to kick tramadol. This drug was VERY tough for me to get away from.
Farmer- Ariana! Welcome to the world. You are a fortunate little child cause you have such a wonderful mamma.
Move beyond- hi sweetie! Weekend is coming soon! How are you doing on your maintenance dose while waiting for your detox stay? Are they going to help you with the suboxone? Been thinking about you during this flurry of conversation about suboxone. Hope you have a wonderful weekend! With you all the way!
Both move beyond and farmer-
I got the book self esteem- a family affair and  her other book 'reparenting ' both by Jean Illesley Clark . The self esteem one was the only one available when my kids were babies....I used it like a bible. All the way through the teen years and actually the principles abide well throughout life and in ALL relationships.  Between this resource and seeking guidance from some friends I found inspiring as parents- I learned some very strong strategies that helped me do a good job as a mom. My first step ( which wasn't too hard) was understanding that I KNEW NOTHING about being the kind of parent I wanted to be. You CAN'T KNOW what you haven't experienced. I knew I didn't want to repeat what happened for me in my childhood. I didn't want to 'guess' about what might be better.
Just thought I'd pass that along. My kids are amazingly emotionally healthy. I have a way to go myself...but I HAVE come a long way and this journey out of tramadol madness and insanity has been a great help to further my personal growth.  Much love TO ALL!

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by EmilyPost, Oct 12, 2012
Tramman I remember you very well and I think others have done a great job of addressing the issue of Suboxone which I know nothing about other than the withdrawal from suboxone is something people have complained bitterly about over the years.  It is a fairy story that anyone can get off drugs scott free.  I do think everyone pays. But the price has to be low enough to keep you alive and able.  That's why people use drugs to get off drugs I think.

What concerns me more is your state of health and well being.  Is there a way you can move towards healthier habits and a way to build up your health? I mean walks outside, gardening, eating healthy food, drinking clean water and trying to incorporate some things that will build you up? Vitamins, minerals ... positive people. Supportive and kind people and lots of laughter?

Regardless of which way you go Tramman, these are things that you could do ... if you wanted to slowly start to rebuild.  I've had my health crash many times and to rebuild it, I have learned it takes me deciding despite whatever pill may be involved to have good health habits ... cause I lose all of them when I am strung out on pills.

If I were you, I'd start right now, today trying to rebuild my health regardless of what decisions you make about the best way to get off the Tramadol.  I hope that makes sense.  I really do know how it is to be trapped by a pill.


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by lellie17, Oct 13, 2012
I am so grateful for this site.  I have never posted anything before but I have looked at this everyday and it has helped immensely.  I started taking tramadol November 2011 and right away I did not take it as prescribed. I thought it would be a "safe" alternative to opiates which I have been addicted to.  I tried to stop in March and was taking 50 mg in the morning and 50 mg at night.  I couldnt sleep and got very depressed. Restless legs and sweats.  On my 7th day of detox I started again.  I had no idea that this drug would give me withdrawals.  I think my Dr. thought I was exxagerating. After taking tramadol again I started taking 300mg daily.  I would try and taper without success.  I started getting very depressed and isolated.  I did not care about anything.  I stopped making AA meetings ( I am an alcoholic too) and was crazy miserable.  I went cold turkey 23 days ago and it was extremely hard but WORTH IT!!!!!!I have had many alcohol detoxes and a couple of opiate detoxes but I have never experienced anything like this.  I don't think I have ever been so scared in my life.  There were times I would read people's post and I could barely see because I was crying so hard.  I took as many suggestions as I could and they all helped.  I am feeling much better.  I am able to sleep and only need to take one visteril a day.  I get very, very tired but the INSANE DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY have passed.  Thank God.  I want to thank everyone here because I don't think I could have done this without coming on here.  Some of my sober support didn't understand how I could be addicted to tramadol but you guys did.  I just want to let everyone know that it will get better.  There were times that I thought that this would never end...that I would feel horrible the rest of my life.  It passes it really does.  Visteril, vitamins, hot baths and showers, lots of green and sleepytime tea, gatorade and lots of exercise all helped.  I am so grateful that I have that poison out of my body.  I don't think I have ever hated a drug as much as this one!!!

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by TRAMMAN999, Oct 13, 2012
Dear colleagues in battle     ......    peterovski ,  metalalchemist,   HumbledXtian, and EmilyPost et al.
I thank you all for the prompt opinions, suggestions and personal experience. At this point, as I said, I do not have any idea about this method and to be honest never even thought of it as a method before  -  always c/t. And, as I said, I can’t face that  -  too long a time, too much and consequently, in two words “ I am weak & weary “.

I am finding it a difficult decision because this has to be the “ right “ decision  - last chance saloon !
Your responses have helped me  -  at least I have more information on which to get it right.
OK, it sounds good for me and perhaps I should have done this before. What appeals to me, ( if it does its job), is that there is time to  “ get stable “. I did the horrendous coming of c/t (and expected a few hiccups during the next couple of months). They were not hiccups  -  they were misery every hour, every day. People said  “ Another week and you’ll be much better “  It went on like that,  on one occasion for 5 months, and another occasion for 66 days  -  but, again relentless misery  -  no life  =  misery existence.   ....... With a consequence of      .........   “ I’ll just give myself some power to overcome  =  more Tram; and there lies the rub !     ................. You know the story, much wants,   .... no ‘needs’   more !
But, this is my story folks  - everyone’s different   -  do not let my thoughts frighten anyone off this site. The knowledge gained from people in difficult and in a worse scenario than me have pulled through    .....     because of this site.
Like most people I am frightened, but not the method if it works.  For the life in me (there’ a pun ! )    ........  “ I cannot envisage going into the early withdrawal stage, which is vicious hell for me; placing Sub pill/strip under my tongue and that little thing “stopping” the withdrawal stage dead, with all the nasty symptoms at that exact point of time”. Anyone any thoughts/experience on that .... * jump off Tram onto Sub in an instant !! ?????
OK, as you pointed out, the first week will not be pleasant, flu like  - but what the hell, look at me now    ......    NOT pleasant !!   I will give it a chance  -  I do hope I feel some positives    -   this, of course, will drive and motivate me to start doing  the * the right things * to get my life back.
I will post and give feedback  -  who knows it might help someone in the same position as me, right at this moment ?

Thank you so much for your kind concern   (the overriding feature of this life saving site).             ....................    Whoever you are, wherever you be, people do empathise with you and      ....................... will  support and  help you.

TRAMM



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by HumbledXtian, Oct 13, 2012
@Emily Post: "It is a fairy story that anyone can get off drugs scott free."
I couldn't agree more. And the price is paid in all sorts of ways.

@Fullmetalalchemist: no clonidine, in fact no drug except suboxone. I've been taking 5-HTP to help with the SSRI depletion and I think it helps. But I suspect that the biggest healer in that area will simply be time, as my brain rewires itself now that it no longer has 15 or 20 or even 25 trams shooting into my brain every day.

@Tramman: I took my last 150 mg of tramadol at 4 p.m. on Sunday, September 9. Before I went to bed, around 10, I took a prescription sleeping pill that a friend gave me (I don't remember exactly what kind of pill) because I knew if I didn't I'd wake up in the early a.m. from withdrawal symptoms.

By the time I got to my doctor at 9 a.m. for my suboxone induction I was feeling pretty miserable from withdrawal. My blood pressure and heart rate were up considerably and I had cold sweats. The doctor gave me 2 mgs of suboxone film strip. After 20 minutes I felt no relief. He then gave me another 2 mgs.

At 9:46 a.m. (I remember this so well) it's as if a switch flipped in my body: the w/ds stopped immediately. I felt a slight euphoria that went away in 30 minutes or so and the w/ds never came back.

You can't "jump off Tram onto Sub in an instant." If you do--I don't understand the chemistry, this is just what my doc told me--the Sub will knock off the tram that is attached to your mu receptors and you will go into _horrible_ withdrawal. Like Emily Post suggests, there is a price that has to be paid: you have to go into withdrawal before you can induce the suboxone.

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by HumbledXtian, Oct 13, 2012
correction: should read "serotinin depletion," not "SSRI depletion."


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by tramrevil, Oct 14, 2012
my life has been ruined by this evil drug.....and ive never took it in my life......i feel for you all ......stay strong ......you can get of this evil drug......i have learned alot from you all........my girlfriend wont admit she has a problem with the pills.......

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by Tallbean, Oct 14, 2012
Well today is 32 days free!!!!! I never thought the 30 day mark would get here, but it has come and gone ( yay )!!!! I just have to say even though every single person is different it does get better with time .. It may take longer for some than others  but it does ..  The main problem now is still the high anxiety which seems to be ok as long as I am busy, but how busy can one be with very low energy( which is still a problem too) .. But I have to say besides those two little downfalls I feel great knowing I got free from those evil pills..  I say free lightly though because even though I am not taking them nor what too, I do know that they were my addiction  and always will be ...    Hope everyone has a great day!!!

                                   Hugs,

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by HumbledXtian, Oct 14, 2012
Congratulations Tallbean. Stay strong.

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by angel187, Oct 15, 2012
Hello all.. I really need your help.  I have been on here in early April when I found out my husband was an Ultram addict.  It has been a windy road since then... Long story short.. everything blew up about 6 weeks ago when I finally told him that in order for me to help him he would either have to take a weekly drug test or leave.  My husband was up to 40 pills a day.  In July 11 he suffered a seizure while driving.  We were on our way to a wedding and thank GOD we just got off the parkway driving 60 MPH.  We were at a red light when he suffered the seizure.  I thought he was dying.  It was the most horrible experience I have ever had.  (At this point) I had no idea he was addicted to Ultram.. Didn't even know he was taking it. Ambulance took him to the ER -- ran a battery of tests.. all came back normal.. went to specialist.. they put him on Brand name Keppra.. said that he would have his driving restored if he takes the Keppra.. (Thank GOD no one was hurt.. only the car in front of us was bumped several times until I could get the car in park (All while thinking my love was dying).
In April of 12.. I found him acting very weird.. Not sure what happened or what made me check his phone but he had several messages and I listened to them.. several online pharmacies confirming delivery to him.. WHAT.. I was in shock.. I didn't know what to do..I finally confronted him and of course he lied.. said he was only taking a 10-12 ultram a day and that he was going to quit.  I made him flush the rest down the toilet (HAD I KNOWN THE EXTENT I WOULD NEVER HAVE DONE THAT)... He stopped cold turkey.. OHMYGOSH.. I have never seen anything like it.. had to take him to the ER because his heart rate was through the roof.. it was there that he finally came clean.. He was taking 40 + pills a day.  once that information was provided they treated him like complete crap.. of course because he did this to himself. They sent him home with two ativan pills and told him to follow-up with his PCP.  Went to his PCP .. and she was very understanding.. I made him come clean with her because she was also prescribing the medication for him as well. (He was in a near-fatal car accident in 07 had his whole right side crushed had multiple surgeries etc.. this is where this has stared)
She suggested a detox program.. We did it.. He spent a week in the hospital Thought it would all be good from there.. Nope.. He made it 3 weeks and started this vicious circle all over again.. lying and hiding.. etc.  this happened several times on and off. ordering them tapering off..He was on about 20 pills a day at this last time 6 weeks ago did it. I have done research on a drug called Naltrexone.. I did research and David agreed to take this.. it would inhibit the effects of any opiates (was told it would work with Ultram). We wanted to get the shot which lasts a month but it was 1300.00 a month so we opted for the pill form.  He has been taking it faithfully for six weeks.. He had a yearly check-up two weeks ago re: seizures and they told him that he could stop the medicine since it has been a year.. He decided to stay on it..

here is the kicker.. on Friday night .. he suffered another seizure.  OHMYGOSH.. I can't believe it.. Could this be from the last time he was taking Ultram?? 6 weeks ago??? or am I completely blind and he is doing it again?? Any help?

Thank you

Kimberly

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by HumbledXtian, Oct 15, 2012
Kimberly,
He needs to see his doc, ASAP. I'm not a doc so dont want to speculate on whether or not he's still using.

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by EpiphanyRose, Oct 15, 2012
Kimberly
My heart goes out to you and to your husband. Ultram is so horrible. The SSRI and SNRI antidepressant effects of the drug totally mess up the brain.  I can guarantee you that your husband is probably horrendously depressed, all caused by going off the Ultram.  HumbledXtian is right. Your husband needs medical care and not just a primary care doctor.  Someone specialized in brain chemistry and the consequences of addiction.

I wish I could be of more help.  Hopefully, Fullmetalalchemist will see your post and may have more answers for you. She is a nurse that works with detoxing patients.
Hope and prayers for you and your husband,
Rose

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by tramrevil, Oct 15, 2012
kim tramadol have ruined my family ...my girlfriend of 12 years has kicked me out....she is a total stranger to me......i kept on telling her she is getting addicted to those evil pills....her mood swings are bad....the sad part is i love her and my kids so much.......she wont even let me round the house.............she lies all the time...she says she dosent take them every day .....she dosent have a problem....its all lies......only i see it or care about her to say something......i tell her like it is....thats why she hates me......its breaking my heart.....she has lost alot of weight.....i can see tramadol in her eyes.....she gets these evil pills off her doctor.......she lies to her doctor.....she lies to me.....shes lieing to everyone.......she is a slave to this drug.....she has got to come off them.....she is so lost......but any body else see her they would think theres nothing wrong with her .....she works full time .looks after the kids ok....i dont no what else to do....were have all her feelings gone.....they have seemed to have dried her up....WHY CANT YOU CRY ON TRAMADOL.........she will most prob cry when stops takeing them for months.....of guilt for what she has done to me............mark   liverpool

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by EmilyPost, Oct 15, 2012
Kimberly, my research revealed people have seizures when they come off the tramadol and then dose upward suddenly.  It's a wide variation in what the body (brain) perceives to be large dose variations that seems to cause seizures. Because people lie about dosage ... it's a problem figuring out how the seizures are triggered. People on MedHelp and other sites often say that coming off tramadol cold turkey causes seizures. Nothing I have read or experienced supports that. But coming off and then being off and suddenly taking a handful ... will do it.  That is what should be emphasized!  I mean ... huge huge danger in quitting and then suddenly dosing.

So.  You'll have to ask him if he found some pills or ordered more. O had some hidden.  If he's on seizure medication ... which it sounds like he is ... nothing else makes much sense. Unless he's truly become seizure-prone as a result of his previous use. I don't actually know how he was functioning taking 40 a day ... God was watching over him and you.

I am sorry that he got trapped into escalating dependency on Tramadol ...the way he was treated at the ER is ironic.  I mean this drug is the one they swear up and down it's so safe and non addictive. Ignoring the fact that there's huge forums of people talking about the hellish withdrawal and the drug seeking behaviour of some of the patients.  I feel that they are helping to create situations like the ones I see here.

I feel terrible for you Darling, but yes, please ask him ... and research if you have to since his life is at stake.

tramrevil (yes they are) I am so sad for you. And ... I hope your GF comes to her senses ... You describe the situation so well.

I love you all!  Really ... so proud of everyone here.  It's the kindest spot on the internet or at least a place of healing and hope.

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by Movebeyondthis, Oct 16, 2012
Hi everyone. It's been a few days since I've posted.
Congrats Tallbean on your 33 days now!  Lellie, you were courageous to c/t it and congrats to you on your 25 days now!

Angel187, I'm so sorry to hear what you've had to go through with your husband.  You too, tramrevil with your girlfriend.  This drug is so hard to get off of though you see on here it can be done, but it's certainly not easy.  The withdrawal is just more complicated, longer than many drugs including other "hardcore" opiates and the acute withdrawal is pretty horrific without help of some sort.  Being on them is easier to hide from others than alcohol or other drugs.  A friend said being addicted to tram is "not as messy" - you can still function and possibly even get more accomplished but you're not truly "there" or living in truth, which is no way to live.  And as time goes, on, often you have to take more to feel the effects of a lifted mood, energy, pain control and to prevent the terrible withdrawal.  Ultimately there comes a time when you must face kicking them because they turn on you.

HumbledXtian, it's interesting to hear your experience on suboxone.  TRAMMAN, I hope it works out for you.

I'm working on getting into a detox center at the beginning of November and it's possible they'll use suboxone. I pre-registered and found out from them that it isnt guaranteed that insurance will cover tramadol detox even though they see MANY tram addicts come in.  It's crazy to me.  And scary.  In my line of work I see Drs prescribing the stuff like Advil because it's not monitored by the DEA.  And yet here we all are, suffering and in desperate need of help.

I've reached out to a friend who may be able to help.  Otherwise I have the month of Nov off of work to make the jump and to recover as much as I can in that time.  The option to jump on my own utterly TERRIFIES me and I can barely even think about it, but I'm grateful to have the time off from work and a job to return to.  I can't afford not to work.

Goatfarmer, I think about you and your Ariana often and it makes me smile.  I can't wait to report to you that I'm off tram, getting back on track with Lyme treatment and hopefully in the near future that I get pregnant too, God willing. Thank you for your concern and sweetly checking in with me on here.

Much love to everyone - those suffering, those celebrating their milestones, and those whose loved ones are struggling.  There is hope for us all.

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by Tallbean, Oct 16, 2012
@movebeyondthis you are so encouraging as is everyone on this journal  I hope everything works with you as far as  the detox center is concerned... I am routing for you !!! I can't believe how this journal has become a lifeline for me during this process . You all are in my thoughts daily, and I am routing for you all whether you made the jump or are working towards the jump ..    

                                    Hugs to everyone

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 17, 2012
Wow! The recent posts from tram man, angel and tramevil are so honest, raw- heartbreaking. Addiction to this drug is sooo devastating. It can destroy everything meaningful in life, and then take that life away, too.
The fight out of this madness and insanity is deadly serious. NEVER think it's going to work out to put this off.
NEVER underestimate the power the pull of addiction has on every good soul enslaved within it.
I could not quit and stay quit without the help of a doctor. Also had to have people who knew what I was going through so I could get support from them. I had to concede to my inner most self that I was hopelessly dependent as much mentally as physically on this wicked pill. THEN I had to wage a war -of sorts. I had to power my way through the battlefield ( with tons of ammo) knowing that every ache, pain, deep wave of anxiety and depression were the drug shooting back at me and looking for surrender. If I couldn't take a part of the onslaught I HAD to know in my heart the solution wasn't in going back to tram. I HAD TO KNOW IN MY HEART there was a solution. There WAS a way out.
That I wasn't one of the hopeless ones ( there really aren't any- that thought is just part of the madness, too) who couldn't evade the clutches of this madness. No...this could work for me.
IT WAS HARD WORK.....and still is, at times. The thing I am most certain of, however, is that staying an addict, a slave to this pill is much much harder than breaking free.....

STAY STRONG....NEVER EVER SURRENDER!
much love to all

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 17, 2012
We shall not flag nor falter....we shall go on to the end....we will never surrender. W Churchill


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by peterovski, Oct 18, 2012
Tramman - Do you have an idea yet when you're going to start on the sub? Let us know how it goes!

Tramrevil - I feel for you, that is a really tough situation to be in. It's very sad but it's the truth; addicts who don't want help cannot be helped. I know how true this is because of how I used to be. I hope she finds the turning point like so many of us have, by that I mean the WILL to quit. All the rest is of far less importance. Once you really want to, it's a matter of staying strong - which ofcourse is hard. (I'm not trying to dismiss any of this, believe me I know how hard it all is once you have that will to quit.) First an addict MUST want to change his/her ways, THEN (s)he can be helped. It's crazy how that works, but unfortunately it's what the facts tell us and what I've experienced aswell.

I really hope she atleast starts being honest with you and admits to being addicted. That's the first step..
What you could do to make this easier for her is tell her you won't get mad or be disappointed and most important: you should say you won't force her to do anything. (Even if you will be mad or disappointed inside, you shouldn't show it.) It's not easy, I know, but this way it's alot easier for her to open up to you about this. If she can tell you everything and you show her you understand her point of view, without forcing her to quit, she will start to open up. I'm sure of that. Addicts don't want to face the consequences of their behaviour, and they don't want to get lectured, much less forced to quit. They tell themselves they have it 'under control' and they ALWAYS know best. This is a form of rationalization by lying to themselves, but it's oh-so hard to face it and even much harder to do something about it. It's stepping stones, but 'forcing' her to quit will have opposite results; she will start hiding her use and lying (even more). You want her to be honest, for that she must feel she can be honest with you.

I'm sending you alot of strength and courage, hang in there!

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by peterovski, Oct 18, 2012
Kimberly - I remember when you first posted here. First off, let me say I'm so sorry to read that you're still having to fight off tramadol. It's hard for us to say if he's using again, like HumbledXtian pointed out. I really hope he's not, but if you were to find out that he is, you should read the above post I made to tramrevil. I think it has a few usable tips for spouses of tramadol addicts. (Actually addicts in general I guess.)

You are not blind if he's using again! It's in the nature of an addict to be extremely discrete when (s)he has to! If being discrete means they can get their tramadol without any (immediate) consequences, they will sneak around and 99% of the times no one will know what's up. It's very unfortunate but true.

Other than that I agree with what many have said, medical care is the best way to go about it.

Good luck, and much strenght!

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by Tallbean, Oct 18, 2012
Well 37 days free today  and what a challenge I was faced with. I go to my pharmacy to pick up a prescription (antibiotic) for my daughter and the lady says to me " hey you never picked your prescription up last month I still have it in the bin " I said oh sorry but I don't need it. Short version she practically made me take it and yes it was tramadol... So I think to myself ill just flush them when I get home.. Well the 20 minute car ride home was torture. All I kept thinking was a couple won't hurt just once... Well after arguing with myself I Did not cave in came home and flushed them .. Boy was that hard to do even after 37 days ... But at least I didn't cave so that was good... I'm so glad I was having a good day because if it was a bad one who knows what would have happened... Anyway I guess the struggle will always be there if faced with an opportunity just have to have the will to say no...

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by tramrevil, Oct 18, 2012
hello everyone....you see..she had a apointmemt with a shrink yesterday....this was to do with her car crash she was in.....thats why her doctor gave her the tramadol ....for her shoulder.....she wreckens she got whiplash......so she put in a claim 18 months ago.....any way her soliceter put her on to the shrink.....well she recons she come clean ot him....and he said to go and see her own doctor and she is to have counciling.....i want to belive her....id .but she has told me that much lies.....in the past 6 months.......but she did admit to me she has a problem.....but not addicted.......i want to belive her....when she told me i asked her how many are you on a day now she told me 4 ....2in morning 2'at nite.....but on sunday she text me....and s

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by tramrevil, Oct 18, 2012
said shes down to one a day.so what do you beleave....any way she told me the shrink said dont put yourself through cold turkey .....go and see your own doctor.......i told her that the doctor might put her on methedone....or somethink ....she just lauthed at ....me..she said she is going to see her doctor next week . i no it is a long road and i am willing to wait for her because i love her.....i want to belive her..i ges i   i wish you will no next week ..she is so up and down..were going out for the day  on saturday for my daughters birthday..i am going to keep my mouth shut and not say anythink about the pills

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by tramrevil, Oct 18, 2012
a big thank you for listening to me......go on...its right what people say this site dose help people.....good luck to you all on here.....i mean that .......i have seen first hand on what that rotten drug can do .......

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by Tallbean, Oct 18, 2012
Tramrevil your girlfriend has to want to stop  in order for her to get free.. (Sorry if I'm being too blunt) or maybe just admit to herself that she's addicted....  I almost ruined my family over these evil pills. A couple of months ago I left my husband ...  I am now back with him trying to repair all the damage I caused from letting these pills take over my life...  He too was in the dark about my addiction to them. He knew I was taking them but not really and still doesn't know the full story... Which is Probally not great but I just can't bear to tell him the full story... I almost lost him over these.... I also hid how many I was taking ... After leaving I took a really hard look at myself and just didn't know how I left my life spin out if control like I did...I know I am not fully telling him the truth about what was going on but I just can't I am too ashamed and feel so guilty about having that addiction.. Any way  wish it all works out for you and your girlfriend ... Me ruining my family over nothing really is what made me want to get free from them ... It's a hard thing to do but can be done.. I wish you and your girlfriend the best of luck in whatever the outcome may be ...  As I only know the addiction of tram I know it was hell being on them and admitting to myself I was addicted and deciding to get off them and actually getting off... I hope this gives just a little insight into her side of it as I only know that side ,being I too was the one who was lying and ruining not only my life but my family's as well...

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 18, 2012
Tramrevil- if you are willing....do an Internet search on the families of addicts. You will find an abundance of information that will be a support and comfort to you. Her behavior in addiction is not personal - about you. Her primary attachment is her pill. Nothing can come between her and her pills. That's how addiction works. Do whatever you have to do to come toward accepting this very sad fact. I can see how crushed you are by her addiction. Anyone would be. You have lost so much. Please do some things to care for yourself. Go get a massage, go talk to an addictions counselor or whatever makes sense for you. Keep posting, we are here.
Tallbean- long car ride, huh? I bet! Nice work flushing them down the toilet. I would have been tempted, too. Isn't it amazing how the mind works...the magnetic pull of those little white pills....glad you were having a good day. Thanks for sharing your story of strife within tram addiction. Good judgement just flies out the window when enslaved. No doubt.
I used tram to tolerate an intolerable situation. Both at work and at home. When both those areas $uck, a drug seems necessary, unless I was going to DO something about the cesspool. So? Done and done.
I went to yoga today. First time since early august. It went pretty well. I don't know what that was all about, the not going. Previously I went 4-6 times a week for years. So I'll see how sore I am tomorrow before I plan my next foray into the studio.
KEEP GOING!

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by angel187, Oct 19, 2012
**UPDATE**... He did it again.. He fooled me into believing he was in recovery for the 4th time.  But I saw him take the Naltrexone.. every night.  He would put it under his tongue and then spit it out.. Sunday night I asked him if he was taking Ultram again.. (Had to be the only reason for the seizure) He said NO.  I watched him take the Naltrexone and made him swallow it in front of me.. HE DID.. Then we went to try to make himself throw-up.. He couldn't even at that point be real.. So what he did was push himself into severe withdrawal.  It was bad.. worse than the other countless times.  I was up all night trying to watch him.. Next day as he has been in bed for 24 hours.. I asked how many pills he had left he said 20 or so.. asked how many he was taking a day he said. 10-15.  I contemplated him ordering more so I could taper him down like I have done some many times in the past and I decided to get a suitcase pack it worth of a week of items and made him go to a hospital 30 minutes away to a detox unit.  I was so mad I already decided to drop him off and leave but I couldn't.  I stayed with him and the triage nurse asked him how many he was taking and he said 50.  I said, "Excuse me.. did you say 50???"  I looked at the nurse and said I have to leave.  

That is the last I heard from him was on Wedesday at 1:00.  I refuse to call to see if he is okay because I literally have given the last 5 years to him.  I can't give anymore.  I am dying here myself.  This isn't my husband.. this isn't the man I married.. This is a man who was involved in a really bad car accident and had bad doctors pushing pills on him and that is where the story begins.. It is a man who can Legally buy this poison over the internet with no restrictions.. It is a man who even though still has pain has the need.. desire ... to love the pills instead of himself.  

Will I give up on him.. NEVER.. But when is enough .. enough?  How do I explain to his 6 & 5 year old where he is?? I am sorry for venting.. I want to thank all of the responses..and Thank GOD this was here for me.  Love to all..

Kimberly

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 19, 2012
Kimberly- you have done the strongest thing. I KNOW the heartache. The pain is crushing. There are many resources for families and friends of addicts. Everyone in the family system becomes affected by the addiction. First....you know he is safe and YOU are not responsible in ANY WAY for him these days in detox. As I suggested above to tramrevil there is much support for you. I would suggest that you contact his doctor as soon as you are able. I imagine you'd like to set some boundaries and expectations. Possibly that he go to in patient treatment after detox - one that has a heavy family component so you and your children can get as much support as possible. He is too hopelessly addicted to be able to just come home after a detox. That is not enough. He will perish if he doesn't get clean. I am so glad you are posting here. Please do something very soothing and comforting for yourself today, hon. k?

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by angel187, Oct 20, 2012
Thank you love.... Your words are kind and very encouraging.  I have been feeling really down.  I called the doc as you suggested (I didn't want to call at all but I know I still have an obligation to stand beside him because he is my husband).  I told them that he is not allowed in the house unless he gets the Vivitrol shot before he leaves.. (I will know that would be 30 days of me not worrying).  I also requested in-patient therapy. The doc said that he is already signed up for outpatient therapy which would consist of 30 days M-F 9:00 - 3:00.  The doc mentioned he told my husband of yet another method.. Suboxone Treatment.. I flipped out on the phone.. I have heard stories of the sub addiction as well.. Why does one addiction have to be treated with another addiction??

He wanted to talk to the kids yesterday and my daughter was so upset she felt she had to throw-up after talking to him.  She is 5.  What kind of mother am I to allow this to happen?  I feel so low and embarrassed for hanging on to him in the hopes he will come back to me.. After all.. It is not his fault this accident happened.  (A little background).. I was 8 1/2 months pregnant with our daughter.  Our son was 1 1/2.. We were waiting for Daddy to come home on July 10th... It was 3:30 p.m. He should have been home by 3:00 that day.  Got a call at 4:00 from a paramedic.. telling me he was in a car accident and I had to get to the hospital.  I had no idea.. They didn't tell me he was life-flighted.. I get to the hospital.. I am in the waiting room for 6 hours.. I keep asking to see him.. I thought he was dead.. I finally get to see him and he was so bad that they had to medicate him just to move him.  He was hit head-on by a Ford F-350 Utility truck.  The driver dropped his cell phone and reached for it.. His whole right side was crushed.. ankle was and in so many pieces leg was twisted in the opposite direction.. Hip shattered.. ribs broken.. etc.  He is 6'4" and his femur had ruptured causing his leg to swell with blood to the size of a tree trunk.  He had to have multiple surgeries.. was out of it for days.. I went into early labor while he was in for surgery ... I called him in the morning and told him his baby woke-up early this morning.. He said he missed his son.. I said no hun... Your daughter.. He dropped the phone.. From that moment on.. He has never been the same..).  I know there are more people in worse situations.. hurting worse.. not being able to walk or anything but for some reason..  I lost him that day and he has never come back.  I don't think he ever will.

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by tramrevil, Oct 20, 2012
kimbely i no what you are going threw...it is so dam hard watching the person you love become a stranger to you.....i think like that if only she didnt have that crash .....she wouldn.t of been given tramadol..the same thing happend to me .6 years ago .when she slipped in a supermarket.she was given co codamal .that was her first addiction...she kicked me out..we got back together 2years later and spent the last 4 years so happy together..before she started on the evil tramadol.ive just been out for the day my daughters birthday..we had such a good time.to anybody else we seem a normal happy family...no one no.s what were going threw..

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by tramrevil, Oct 20, 2012
so you see the doctor never new she was addicted to co codamal ..or she wouldnt have gave her tramadol..she is still lieing to me...now i said it was good you admit you have a problem...she didnt say anythink back to me ..i left it at that.....2 days ago she hated my guts....today were having a good time who no.s what mood she will be in tomorrow????these pills are so evil...i wont get intouch with her for a couple of days ....she can phone me....i love her so much its heartbreaking..ive got to keep strong......hope you are all ok ..........dont let this evil pill beat you.....keep on fighting....you guys and laddies........take care

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by tramrevil, Oct 20, 2012
sorry i would like to state that she was addicted to co codamal for 18 months....she got clean and begged me to come back....so i did ......because i never  stopped love her in those 2 years we were apart......   Tramadol have got a grip on her ....they wont let her go yet......

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 20, 2012
Kimberly- hi honey. I am glad you called the doctor. I am sending you a message on your page.
Tramrevil- are you familiar with al anon? They are meeting for families of people addicted. You might find these people a great help.
It is heartbreaking to love someone who is active in addiction. There is MUCH you can both do. The thing you CANNOT do is try to make an addict face their problem if they are not ready. You CAN create boundaries. Like saying you need separation or time because you can not accept unacceptable behavior.  The focus being the sanity and health you and your children deserve. The best chance you have of finding some sanity in this mess is becoming educated about addicts and how they impact relationships. Both as significant other as well as the children. Get help from mentors, counselors, other people who have worked hard to come to terms with loving someone who has an addiction. Plenty of resource on the Internet as well as many many books on the subject. Remember, please, that you are learning about this stuff for YOU and your children. You CAN learn how to navigate this dark and desperate place. They have to be left to their process of coming to terms with their addiction. You will hear the phrase 'let go' a million times in your own recovery from this madness...whether your partners decide to get well or not. It is the hardest thing to do....also much info on how to talk with the children about this stuff, depending upon their age and need.
We are here......much love

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by angel187, Oct 20, 2012
Tramevil.. ~ Hun.. I know EXACTLY what you are going through.. You know this is not her . this is Tramadol.. The constant lying.. deceit.. ups.. downs.. bad.. good.. it is all Tram.. She is still there just lost in transit.. I feel for you.. I can sense your frustrations as I have gone down this road for the last five years.. with each relapse getting worse.. I pray for you. her.. and your family.  Don't give up on her hun.. She will get through this but it has to be the right time.. Unfortunately.. We do not have the power to make that choice for them.  What we see as .. "Do you realize what you are doing and what you are losing etc... They see as Whomp Whomp whomp whomp whomp.. It is not them.. xoxoxo

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by angel187, Oct 21, 2012
I found this and tweaked it a little.. I sent this to my husband ..

Dear Love,
I've come to visit once again. I love to see you suffer mentally physically spiritually and socially. I want to have you restless so you can never relax. I want you jumpy and nervous and anxious. I want to make you agitated and irritable so everything and everybody makes you uncomfortable. I want you to be depressed and confused so that you can't think clearly or positively. I want to make you hate everything and everybody-especially yourself. I want you to feel guilty and remorseful for the the things you have done in the past that you'll never be able to let go. I want to make you angry and hateful toward the world for the way it is and the way you are. I want you to feel sorry for yourself and blame everything but your addiction for the way things are. I want you to be deceitful and untrustworthy, and to manipulate and con as many people as possible. I want to make you fearful and paranoid for no reason at all and I want you to wake up during all hours of the night screaming for me. You know you can't sleep without me; I'm even in your dreams.

I want to be the first thing you wake up to every morning and the last thing you touch before you black out. I would rather kill you, but I'll be happy enough if I can put you back in the hospital, another institution or jail. But you know that I'll still be waiting for you when you come out. I love to watch you slowly going insane. I love to see all the physical damage that I'm causing you. I can't help but sneer and chuckly when you shiver and shake, when you freeze and sweat at the same time, when you wake up with your sheets and blankets soaking wet.

It's amazing how much destruction I can do to your internal organs while at the same time, work on your brain, destroying it bit by bit. I deeply appreciate how much you sacrifice for me.

The countless good jobs you have sacrificed for me. All the fine friends that you deeply cared for-you gave them up for me. And what's more, for the ones you turned against yourself because of your inexcusable actions-I am more than grateful.

And especially your loved ones, your family, and the most important people in the world to you. You even threw them away for me. I cannot express in words the gratitiude I have for the loyalty you have for me. You sacrificed all these beautiful things in your life just to devote yourself completely to me. But do not despair my friend, for on me you can always depend. For after you have lost all these things, you can still depend on me to take even more. You can depend on me to keep you in living hell, to keep your mind, body and soul. FOR I WILL NOT BE SATISFIED UNTIL YOU ARE DEAD, MY FRIEND.
Faithfully yours,
Ultram.. a.k.a Tramadol

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by tramrevil, Oct 21, 2012
that brought a tear to my eye........and it is so so true...........

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by angel187, Oct 21, 2012
**UPDATE** My husband will be coming home tomorrow.. I am terrified.. I felt better knowing he was somewhere he couldn't access the Ultram.. I don't know what to do.  I am sick to my stomach.  

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by HumbledXtian, Oct 21, 2012
Angel, please research suboxone. It saved my life when i was imprisoned by tramadol.

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by Movebeyondthis, Oct 23, 2012
Hi everyone. I haven't posted in a bit. The fight continues on and I pray for all of you suffering with your addiction or your loved one's.  Keep posting on here and great things will happen because of the great people on here who know and care. It's true.  An idea, words of encouragement, others' experiences, will resonate and plant the seed for change. It's a miracle.

I've been focused on working with my insurance and finding the right detox center within my network.  What a process!  But I've certainly got the motivation.  Fullmetal sparked it for me.  I'm deeply grateful.

I've increased my tram dosage since I made the decision to go to detox, got the ok to take November off from work, and realized I had become so weary from the 3+ months of tapering & withdrawal.  Lyme is now affecting my brain again.  Not playing victim here, just a sign to myself & my Dr. to get moving on treatment after November.

I did find a detox center that will very likely get me pre-authorized to at least do in-patient detox for the first 5-7 days of acute withdrawal. !!  Though I'll find out in a couple of days if I'm actually approved.  The intake coordinator says he requests approval from my insurance a lot and doesn't doubt they'll approve the week of in-patient detox.  I'm on my hands and knees praying.

They use suboxone.  He said since my insurance probably won't cover their 28 day rehab or a longer detox stay, he'll work with my Lyme Dr. to prescribe the meds I need for withdrawal during the month of November I have off.  He understands that with me wanting to become pregnant, I don't want to stay on anything for too long.  

He said its not hard to come off of suboxone, just hard to stop the suboxone only due to the long term tramadol withdrawal.  Is this true?  Isn't suboxone an opiate?  I'm so confused by this drug.  I do know that you have to be off of tramadol for like 12 hours before taking the suboxone or else it can actually put you into withdrawal.  I was relieved to hear an intake specialist understand that it's a long process to withdrawal from tramadol.

I'll be withdrawing from what I was told is a high dose of klonopin too so I'm in for quite a ride. I have such a high tolerance for everything, I often don't know what "a lot" is.  My Lyme Dr was worried about getting off of this for safety reasons but I just want to get off everything while I'm in a safe environment.  And the goal is to be off all meds to prepare for possible pregnancy so I don't plan on being on any supportive meds long term, even antidepressants.  

Still waiting to hear if I get approval for a PICC line for IV antibiotics for Lyme which could really help with my pain (would be month of December).  

My husband is very distant (scared) and stressed about work but I'm determined to do what I need to do even if I have to do it all on my own.  I feel like a true warrior!

Healing from addiction is possible.  For me it means getting professional help.  I see asking for help as a strength, not a weakness.  Whatever measures are necessary to fight this.  

Healing, love and hope to all of you Warriors.  Do not give up!

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by serenenow, Oct 23, 2012
Still alive and well

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by JULIUS23, Oct 23, 2012
WOW I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE IN MONTHS... WELL GUYS I HAVE GREAT NEWS... OCT 17 2011 WAS WHEN I STARTED MY DETOX FROM TRAMADOL AND LAST WEDNESDAY OCT 17 2012 WAS MY ONE YEAR SOBER FROM TRAMADOL... I AM SO GLAD I MADE IT THRU... TO ALL THE NEW TRAMADOL WARRIORS WHO ARE GOING THRU DIS HELL DETOX IT IS SO WORTH IT... YOU WILL BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING AND MORE IMPORTANT YOU WILL HAVE UR LIFE BACK... PLEASE TAKE IT ONE DAY AT A TIME... IT'S A MIND GAME NOT A PHYSICAL ONE... THE PHYSICAL PART ONLY LAST FOR TWO WEEKS, AND THEN IT'S ALL ABOUT GETTING UR MIND RIGHT FOR THE NEXT 3 MONTHS, AFTER THAT YOU GOT IT MADE.... I WAS TAKING 800MG A DAY FOR 4 YEARS STRAIGHT... WENT COLD TURKEY ALL THE WAY... I WORKED OUT EVERY DAY ON DETOX AND WHEN I STARTED MY DETOX I WAS WEIGHING ABOUT 185LBS , NOW I WEIGH 230LBS WIT A BAD *** BODY TO GO WITH IT.. I'M MORE STRONGER AND I FEEL GREAT... SO YEA NO PAIN NO GAIN AND NOW THAT I LOOK BACK IT I LAUGH BC I CUD NOT BELIEVE WHAT I WAS DOING FOR THE LAST 4 YEARS.... LOL FEELS GOOD TO SMILE AND BE HAPPY AGAIN.... GUYS IT IS SO WORTH IT I PROMISE YOU.......   IT'S WAR KEEP FIGHTING!!!!

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by JULIUS23, Oct 23, 2012
OH YEA HERE IS MY TICKER...

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by tramrevil, Oct 23, 2012
well done julius.......you give us all hope lad................and a big hello to every one.............

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by goatfarmer, Oct 23, 2012
Feeling strong temptation now!!!! Depression/anxiety overwhelming! Pray for me!  was on percocet for my csection surgery did fine until I came of that. Now I am a mess! Feeling REALLY down now!
Gawd this *****!

ON another note baby is great! Great sleeper great little baby!

Me feeling down, tired, crying, emotional, anxious at times, severe lethargy. UGH!
Tell me to not go back on this!  I honestly feel I NEED it to be normal! Its been like over a month since my last 1/8 taper and I honestly feel like I need it back!

Hope all you are doing better then me! Wish I had time to read updates but gotta go feed baby so internet time is hit and miss.




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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 23, 2012
Yeah Julius! Yes....we are all  b@d-***** here, aren't we? 185 to 230! Only a guy in great shape would be happy about stats like that, Julius. You go....nice work and thanks for checking in with us. I love getting your updates.
Hi serene!
Farmer dearest- you absolutely cannot expect your thinking and mood to be stable right now. The hormones of pregnancy are so awesome that even bipolar ( the true ones) come off lithium during pregnancy and most always do fine. THAT IS A BIG DEAL. Means that most people find the hormonal milieu in pregnancy pretty even and stable. Well now you are in the thick of all those changes after delivery. It isn't surprising that you would feel cravings now. What is your plan? You mentioned you had a plan with your doc after delivery if you found yourself struggling.
A relapse on tram would really $uck, honey....you'd have to get off it again...someday. All the while you were back on it you'd be feeling badly about it. You would be choosing to 'disconnect 'with little Ariana . She wants her mum. I do understand the craving, dearest......as move beyond says above, get help NOW!
Move beyond- hi sweetie. It is all going to flow....what a ride, huh? Suboxone was always pretty easy for the heroin addicts to use for weaning. They did it for about 2 weeks, give or take depending on their habit. I think some of the protocols are longer now, and yours will be because of the lymes -more than likely. The way I think of it is that every drug 'hits' the opiate receptors a bit differently. The half life is different and suboxone has an antagonist with the agonist.
It doesn't cause much euphoria. You are not developing a relationship with it as a drug of abuse, your relationship with it is controlled and presented as a helper off the tramadol. That mental difference is a big one. You will see. Your first 24 hours of NO TRAM are going to be sweet. So glad you are getting this help. I've never seen anyone work harder.

Never, ever, ever, EVER surrender !
Much love TO ALL!

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by Tallbean, Oct 23, 2012
Hey Farmer I have to agree with Fullmetal  if you go back you're just going to have to do it all again.. You've come so far and just think of the reason you came this far... Keep fighting!  I definitely know about temptation . A couple of days ago I had a full bottle and flushed them ... That was hard. Then just yesterday I found 6 of them in a pocket in my purse then today I found 4 in my dresser drawer.. Talk about haunting me ... I would search at the end of every prescription just so I wouldn't have to cut down and would never find any , and now I'm finding them everywhere..... Anyway stay strong and well be thinking about you !!!! Hugs

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by EpiphanyRose, Oct 24, 2012
(((((Farmer))))))!!

So so sorry you are feeling bad.  I've been reading previous pages and what comes to mind is that several posters have mentioned that taking ANY kind of opiate reactivated their w/d feelings. (madtram was one). (Just thinking of the perc you took after baby).

New moms are chronically TIRED!  It is a given. Yes, Tram may give you a bit of energy, but then it WILL turn around and BITE you in the A$$!  You KNOW it will, and probably fairly quickly too.  But, by then you will be TRAPPED! Remember the BAD stuff... the fear of running out, the sweats, constipation, irritability, numb/blocked emotions and on and on.

TRAM is POISON!!!  

Love Rose
PS  Still tapering.


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by HumbledXtian, Oct 24, 2012
Tallbean, congratulations on continuing to flush that stuff. Don't know what I'd do if I kept finding trams lying around in drawers, etc.

Farmer, don't give in. You've come too far already to take a big step backwards.



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by Movebeyondthis, Oct 24, 2012
Farmer, think about all of the horrible things you remember about being on tramadol.  Make a list.  And think of how many of us are desperately trying to get through withdrawal and you already have.  You did it, you earned it, so keep it please! Its so hard to get it back.

I'm officially going to in-patient detox in about a week.  Insurance authorized 90% for acute withdrawal, average 4-5 days depending on what the medical team thinks is necessary. Seems like such a short time but maybe they'll keep me there longer.  At least its the worst/scariest part of it and out of pocket payment is $150/day which really adds up.  I don't understand why they couldn't just cover 100%.  Though I'm grateful they are covering what they are.  Then I get to recover at home for the rest of the month.  Phew!

Fullmetal, thanks for your explanation of suboxone.  If I leave after 4-5 days, my understanding is that they will work with my own Dr. to continue to prescribe suboxone for a bit longer.  I was relieved to see that Klonopin has a relatively short half-life so I'm guessing I will be safe to be off of it when I leave detox??  I have no idea.  I may go on Neurontin for Lyme pain for a little while which I believe prevents seizures.

Farmer, I am really scared and I can't wait to get through all of this.  Withdrawal $ucks!  Stay away from tramadol or any opiate.  Do it for yourself.  Do it for your precious baby girl. I remember you saying that if you faced depression/anxiety after pregnancy, you would talk to your Dr. about an AD.  I'm so looking forward to reading your update on here about how you managed this WITHOUT tramadol.  BIG hug.

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by Tallbean, Oct 24, 2012
******Movebeyondthis you are so close.... Just remember it is sooooo worth it in the end ,and you are almost there... It is definitely scary but trust me you will be fine. You are so determined!!  Wishing all the best to you while you prepare for this new chapter in your life...  Will be thinking about you!!! Keep us posted...                   ****Humbled I never was so lucky while on them .. I would've never found so many when I needed too... What a way to try and pull me back.. It feels like they put themselves there are purpose!!! (Ha ha ).. Definately keeps putting me in a tough situation. But I have to say  my will power is definitely stronger then I ever imagined!!!  Well hopefully I'm  done finding them .. For my own sanity !!!!

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by thestilly, Oct 25, 2012
I have envisioned this day for quite some time.  See, I feel like I know many of you since I have been reading this forum continually for over a year now.  But you don't know me.  I envisioned the day I would become a warrior like you and my friends, today has become that day.  And while my mind and body are going through absolute hell right now my spirit is high for some odd reason.  I looked at the bottle this morning and said "I control you now" and it was quite liberating.  I see my life without the pain and shame of trammies and it looks like a beautiful thing.  I just have to fight for it!  Let's get it on!  My wife asked me what a "brain zap" feels like and the only way I could thing to describe it was...imagine pushing a finger in each ear until they touch and shut your brain off for the blink of an eye...that is what it feels like.  That description earned quite an odd look in return.  My teeth hurt so back to the couch for me.  

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by HumbledXtian, Oct 25, 2012
Thestilly,
congratulations. Such a huge step! Stay in control!

Are you working with a physician? The possibility of a seizure when detoxing tramadol is quite real.. Glad to hear your wife is on the scene.

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by Fullmetalalchemist, Oct 25, 2012
Tall bean- wow! Real tests of your resolve....nice work. Ive had that situation...running in to some while on ' the wagon'
( several on and offs for me over the years) AND....I noticed a pattern. If I didn't dump the pill immediately upon finding it. Say I put it away somewhere else...didn't take it but didn't throw it....you know what that meant, I'd guess. Yes, a relapse waiting to happen. Then that pill would OWN the back of my mind until I rationalized an excuse to take it. OHhh
the misery of addiction to tram! Great work! You are having these great moments of choice. Of power. I figure I should always be strong enough to find a pill and know what to do with it (garbage disposal comes to mind) if I am so weak I can't even run across a pill I am essentially STILL a slave.
Thestilly- welcome! So glad you are here! Another b@***@****! If you would be willing, try omega 3 fish oil. It really helps with the brain zaps. I take 4 grams a day. 2 in the morning and 2 in the evening. I'd say it almost eradicated them for me. Emily says that the risk of seizures is not documented in withdrawal. I guess I've read that other places, too. Humbled works with a specialist so might have an inside scoop I am not aware of. What I have heard is that seizures are a high risk when the levels are low and then a large dose is taken. Are you weaning?
Glad your wife is on board with this deal. You sound strong!!
Hi humbled! How is the wean going for you? Your support on these forums has been so strong. I appreciate your consistent presence.
I'm doing very well. It is amazing how other areas of my life I needed to face and address some things have come to the surface for review, since the tramafog has lifted. I used tram to tolerate the intolerable. To run from issues I didn't want to address. I am taking some action in my life now that is very....shall I say..healthy. And strong!
I feel good about things. Much discomfort but growth doesn't not come from ease. My friend gene says he "grows at the rate of pain" ...me too.
Keep going!
'we shall not flag nor falter....we shall go on to the end....we will NEVER surrender!      Churchill
much love TO ALL!

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by tramrevil, Oct 25, 2012
hello every one hello thesilly........you can do it mate.......rid yourself of the evil.............youve took the first step......comeing on here..........every one keep the fight up..........

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by thestilly, Oct 25, 2012
FMA - Thanks for the advice on the Omega 3.  I need some fresh air and I plan to drag myself up the street to the store this afternoon.  I will give it a try.  My wife - let's just say I consider myself the luckiest guy on the face of the earth.  I have been tapering for some time and have decided to go for it.  Since I have been reading this site for so long preparing for my battle I have picked up on some great advice along the way.  It was so comforting to know that one day I would be able to come here and fall in the arms of support.  It feels good to be here!  I still feel that way even though I am shivering and sweating like a hog in an ice box.  I would routinely find myself interested in how different people were doing and living vicarously through their battle.  Well, today I have drawn the sword!

HX - thanks! It feels more of a leap out of an airplane with no parachute than a step but you are right.  It's huge and that is what I am trying to keep in mind.  I am not working with a physician.  I just moved  and have not found a new PCP as of yet.  Its on the list.  Yes, I have heard people reference the realty of seizures so I concerned but so far so good!

I have a healthy caffiene addiction too and so far I have been feeding the caffeine monster.  Anyone have thoughts on caffeine intake suring w/d?

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by AnShiloh, Oct 25, 2012
My name is Shiloh and I was given this site by a medhelp friend.  I have been on hydrocodone 7.5 mg 3 times a day & tramadol 50 mg 4 times a day for 8 years because of several major surgeries.  The last 18 or so months I have doubled this amount and totally abused the dosage.  At the age of 74 you would think that I knew better but that is not the case. I do not use tobacco or alcohol and have never used drugs (or so I thought) until it dawned on me that I was hooked, in fact a druggie.  I have not taken a hydrocodone or tramadol or any thing with any kind of narcotic in it now for 14 days.  I am struggling and live min. To min.  I have an appointment with a psychiatrist in a week.  Can anyone please give me some advice or hope.  I would appreciate any input.  I feel like I can't stand it any longer.

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by EmilyPost, Oct 25, 2012
This thread is closed.

Please come to Part 55 ...


http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/571061/-Tramadol--Ultram-Recovery-Room-Part-55

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