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Tramadol & Ultram Withdrawal; Cold Turkey or Taper Room Part One

Feb 12, 2009 - 155 comments
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cold turkey

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Wthdrawal Assistance



Hi ChicaBooms!

Welcome to our new home!

Love and Healng,
Emily





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by EmilyPost, Feb 12, 2009
Hi again Tramadol Warriors!

KC you write; "I said to my symptoms (any my body), “Welcome.  I know you are here because you - my body - are doing its best to rid my very cells of this poison that should never have been ingested in the first place.  I welcome you because you - my body - are doing its job.  I know that these symptoms won’t last forever and I know I have to go THROUGH this to beat you!  There is no easy way around it.  My body and I have declared war on the residual bits of poison that you (Tramadol) have placed within my cells.  But this stronghold you have over me is temporary.  I embrace these awful symptoms because I will eventually win!”
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I like that a great deal. I hope you are doing well today. It gets better!

1113- It's great to hear from you. No worries; you'll jump off when you are ready!

Linda; You write, "Love your humor.  I'm holding you in my thoughts.  I'm on day 15 off tramadol (4 years/many pills) and 7 days off suboxone.  (Yeah, the old doc said it was " a very benign medication") I thought I was going to feel better by now--that's what the DOC said!  Croc."

"benign."  Wow. Annoying! I hope you are feeling better today.

Frankm you write, "I believe so. I know , and I mean KNOW , I will never ingest this poison again unless unconscious and someone forces it inside of me. Terrible stuff, terrible. But I'm coming down the mountain, feeling better with each passing hour, and want to again let all of you, especially EmilyPost, know how much of a blessing it is to have found this place to share our miserable experience with this poison."

You're very kind. The conversation and stories here help me a great deal!  

(((((marie50))))

OOoo Suzi? You had an ativan experience? Do Tell!!  Klonopin is in the same Benzo Family. Benzos rightfully have a huge amount of attention. They put me on Klonopin to kill the side effects of Tramadol. When the Doctors did that; I had no idea that they were "layering" drugs. If I had known that klonopin was for the side effects of Tramadol, one would HOPE I would have been alert enough to realize that was seriously messed up. As t was, I had to go thru Xanax and Ativan to get to Klonopin, which erased the symptoms of panic and anxiety.

I haven't written in detail about the Klonopin experience here. *Knock on wood* FOR ME; the tapering of Klonopin has been a reminder of what Tramadol withdrawal was like. You're a sweetheart Suzi. You're not out of line at all. I have A. a really uncooperative Psychiatrist who thinks I haven't been tapering. Dr. Groovy wants possibly to keep me hooked or to Cold Turkey me.  I need to see him one last time on Monday ... which is a day off for me. After that; I hope to never see him again.

It's interesting. I'm not suffering very much. *knock on wood again* But my brain isn't very clear

I'll be back ... I have a little girl I need to take care of for an hour ... Momentary Babysitter Emily ...

Love and Healing,
Emily



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by warrior3071, Feb 12, 2009
Emily:  funny you used the word "Warrior" in your post  (my login is Warrior3071D - the Piper Warrior airplane I trained in to get my private pilots license).

I am a 'newbie.'  I have been reading on this site for so long ... always in the background ... looking for hope and strength in battling tramadol's  "siron call."  Finally signed up and am saying I need all of help you all have to offer.  

I am down to 3 trams a day, from approx 20/day.  I have never stayed so long at such a low level before.  

I want OFF though.  I want to be FREE.  I know, thanks to you all sharing your experiences, that I must continue to taper slowly.  When I tried CT (so many times in the last 10 years), I very nearly killed myself.  I didn't know about the Serontonin effects and depression upon withdrawal.

reading all your posts, I don't feel so alone anymore.  my doctor is helping me (again, taking to him words off this site helped MY DOCTOR UNDERSTAND what was happening).

I look to the day - please God, soon - when I can say I, too, am  ## days free from this drug.

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by KC67, Feb 12, 2009
Day 4 – Cold Turkey – Feb. 12, 2009

Whew!  Things are still difficult today.  But I wasn’t expecting anything much better – so at least I wasn’t disappointed.  I know this drug takes awhile to get out of my brain and my cells.  After all, I ingested this poison many years – how could I expect to feel back to normal after only 4 days???  Arrrrgggh!  Patience is NOT one of my virtues.

Today I have a headache, still have intestinal problems, anxiety, depression (although not as bad as yesterday – so there’s a positive), bouts of sneezing, and restlessness.  Still have aches and pain in my joints and my lower back (which is the origin of my pain in the first place).  The good news is that my pain is bearable.  In other words, the “zombie” I had become on Tramadol was way worse in comparison to the pain I am experiencing now.  I believe that much of this pain will subside as the poison continues to leave my system  - it is just the Tram’s last-ditch effort to get me to ingest more!  NO!  Lies! Lies! Lies!

I am more concerned about the emotional effects this drug is leaving behind with me now that I know there is a hidden tri-cyclic antidepressant in it (thank you Emily for this information).  I guess I have to be patient (did I tell you that this was NOT one of my virtues?) to allow my body to re-learn how to produce its own serotonin and norepinephrine.  As I have said in past posts, the mental effects are totally kicking my butt!

Sleep?  All I can say is OMG!  Last night was the WORST night of restlessness and non-sleep that I have ever experienced in my life!  Again, I expected this in Week 1 and judging from most of the past posts, this shouldn’t last too much past Day 7.  Oy!  I hope I can hold on that long.  It really stinks to have a headache, Trama-fog, and have to work and take care of 2 wonderful and amazing children while being sleep-deprived.

Emily:  dear, wonderful Emily - thanks for moving (our increasing-by-the-day) posts to this new site!  Again, it was a thrill to see that you are still here with us and encouraging us.  You are too humble to acknowledge it, but you ARE a celebrity in our eyes and we want to encourage you as you have encouraged us.  Yes, I think it is time for "Dr. Groovy" to go back to Woodstock and reside there...permanently!  lol.

Frankm:  I’m right behind ya and am SOOOO glad that you made to Day 8.  It is an awesome reason to say “Yayyyyyy!”  I will hopefully being reiterating the same word on MY “Day 8”!

DontBelieve:  You have a great attitude and a great story!  Read what I wrote below to “Kev” and quoted “Frankm”.  This forum is an amazing place to share your story and be a beacon of light to others going through this trip to Hades.  Focus on the joy that you are about to experience with your wife and the birth of your first child!  I hope that your doctor (now that he/she has FOUND what is exactly wrong with your neck) that they will be able to find a solution that does NOT involve Tramadol or any other addictive substance for that matter.  

Kev:  Thanks to Frankm for saying the following words, and I quote, “You are, I assure you, among some of the best human beings in the world. You will receive kindness, love, and understanding here from people who are or have been on the Trama-train to hades. You will not be judged, dissected, or ridiculed in any way.”  
This is so true Kev.  It is okay to feel angry…heck, it is okay to FEEL….  It means you are no longer a Trama-zombie incapable of FEELING.  
Once again, I have to quote Frankm for hitting the nail on the head with this quote, “Tramadol slowly turns one into a numb zombie incognizant of the realities forming around them, as rock bottom gets closer and closer”.  Even though you are on Day 30, it doesn’t mean that you won’t still have occasional side-effects and bursts of emotion (whether they be anger, sadness, anxiety, depression, or even joy!).  I have read each and every one of Emily’s posts and I noticed that even on Day 42 (I am pretty sure it was Day 42), she had a rough day.  It’s all part of FEELING again and it is normal.  Last thing, Kev, I am NOT a professional and not even qualified to give ANY advice besides sharing what I myself have personally experienced, but I have found it VERY helpful to channel anger and try to do something positive with it –whether that means more research to educate the medical professionals (and the world) about how this drug has affected your life and the lives of others.  Another therapeutic suggestion would be to help others in worse shape than you.  Although I don’t have the energy to do this right now (soon, soon, though I hope), it is good to volunteer with organizations like Salvation Army, City Rescue Mission, Homeless shelters, or nursing homes.  Even if it were for only 1 day, 1 hour, just helping serve a meal to them,… by helping others in need I believe you will find that your emotions amazingly change into positive energy.  Although I think spray-painting your Doctor’s car with bright green spray paint would give you TEMPORARY satisfaction (and being a former Toilet-paperer of houses in my high-school years -  it sounded kind of intriguing), but the vandalism charges would FAR outweigh the punitive consequences.  There’s got to be a better way to channel that energy!  What exactly is making you angry from reading these posts?  Again, I am not licensed or worth any more than my 2-cents of comments, but if I can encourage you in any way, I WANT to do so.

Warrior & Missy:  You can do this!  Do this however YOU know what is best for YOU - tapering or C/T.  We are here for you!

Last, but not least….Happy Birthday FRED!!!!  I too, was afraid I would turn out like my Mother (I won’t go into that story right now – TMI (too much information)).  But I shared your sentiments that somehow I would inherit her negative choices and character traits.  Not so!!!!  We all have the privilege to choose different and better paths than our family, friends, and even ourselves have chosen.  Each day is a NEW day of NEW grace and NEW beginnings.  

Thanks to all of you for your unconditional, positive support!

Day 4 down….Day 5 – BRING IT ON!!!!!

Sincerely with hope and love,
KC67


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by frankm12, Feb 12, 2009
Warrior- Welcome. No sir, you are NOT alone- I would bet there are millions of people around the world addicted to the Tramacrap, most of them unknowingly. Being down to 3 pills a day is an admirable job. Just keep on keepin' on. Just want to welcome you.

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by frankm12, Feb 12, 2009
KC67- Actually I am on Day 6, but OK I know day 8 will be there and then day 8,000 if I am fortunate enough to live that much longer. If you are going onto the night of day 4 , you MAY sleep a bit tonight. I didn't sleep(real, 8 hr. uninterrupted sleep,that is) until the end of day 5, so in either way hang on, it is coming. And it is GLORIOUS,:). I am having some very vivid and surreal dreams now though, and I am talking some WILD stuff!!!!! I'll take it though, because it means I am SLEEPING again,finally!!!! Again, that has been the most difficult part of the w/d's for me, the restless non-sleep. But for all of those on day 0 or 1 or 2 or 3, remember IT WILL GET BETTER. Thanks again everybody and God bless, I'll check in soon.

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by KC67, Feb 12, 2009
Okay...okay...I messed up in my writing to Kev (above post)...  I MEANT to say, "Although I think spray-painting your Doctor’s car with bright green spray paint would give you TEMPORARY satisfaction (and being a former Toilet-paperer of houses in my high-school years -  it sounded kind of intriguing), but the vandalism charges AND punitive consequences would FAR outweigh the momentary satisfaction.  

Just didn't want anyone to misinterpret and think I was giving weird advice.  
Yes.  I am STILL in a trama-fog.  Go away FOG....NOW !!!!!!

KC67

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by EmilyPost, Feb 12, 2009
Hi Warrior! Thank you for de-lurking! Always happy to see someone who has tapered from 20 to 3!! So thankful you did NOT kill yourself. Yes, the serotonin effects and resultant depression (the dark voice of Tramadol) are harsh. I'm really glad you have a good Doctor who listens to you! Welcome Warrior!

Ok so back to where I was ... Organica you're a Doll!  Yes, many children of alcoholics are allergic to alcohol. Many of the women I used to work with for weight issues, also had serious problems wth sugar and High Fructose Corn Syrup. Genetics. (And so do I!) I worked with only a handful of men in that time; so i have no perspective on what the men may go thru. Only to say that I worry about my older brother. He drinks and eats poorly and his weight is an issue. The men in our Family keep dropping dead in their 50's. It's very difficult for me to accept that no one controls our habits except us.

Oh and also telling someone you are "allergic to alcohol" is a code language for "I am in AA."  At least; it is here ... I had to freakin' laugh when I heard that as I have said it for YEARS and always had these funny looks ... ahhh Sense of Humor ...I have it ...

SOooo Organica you too?  Wow. That's very surreal. It really was not until my Dad was very dead and in his extra large coffin that I realized he was an alcoholic. Which is a level of deep denial I lived in for many years.

Like Fred has mentioned; I did not have the chance to know him on any sort of level as an adult. But also as a child. The booze always stood between us. Frankly t stood between my Father and anyone or anything. He was deeply ... um ... suicidal and died of a broken heart many years before his actual death.

Roddy you write, "Just had to say that i feel privileged to be amongst such caring, genuine and beautiful people as there are on this forum. Each and  everyone of you is an inspiration to the others"

So well said and I absolutely agree! Thank you all for being here. Thank you for posting.

KC what a lovely post ... I was NOT as coherant at three days out! Well done! You write, " I didn’t want to hide (as Emily mentioned in a previous post) when someone knocked on the door or the phone rings.  Isn’t that a weird side effect of this drug???  I actually DO want to hide when the doorbell rings or I get startled and annoyed when the phone rings and don’t want to answer it.   I have great hope that the “old” me is still there somewhere and that the Trama-voices are BEGGING me non-stop to take more because they want me to believe that  I NEED them to function."

Yep yep. I remember so well being so freaked out when someone knocked on my door. I literally dropped to the floor and hid. And no freakin' way was I about to answer the phone! Unthinkable!!

KC you also write, "
I too suffer more from anxiety than depression so I think this Tri-cyclic antidepressant is kicking my butt right now.  I agree with you that people with anxiety (vs. depression – even though I have been told they go hand in hand) should be very careful with serotonin reuptake inhibitors.  I have tried every antidepressant available and none have helped me.  Actually I found that I felt MORE anxious on them.  So that would explain why I am struggling so much emotionally from withdrawal of Tram. – my brain has been tampered with and my opiate receptors are not happy AT ALL.
Thanks for continuing to post and feel free to share your Klonopin struggles.  I will eventually have to get off Xanax, but right now, one thing at a time."

For me, ANXIETY has never ever ever ever gone hand in hand with depression. My understanding of straight up anxiety conditions is that you should never ever ever mess wth serotonin for the straight up anxiety patients. The number of Doctors who tried and failed to put me on anti-depressants after the accident in 2000, is astonishing. It was not until Tramadol that I learned what an important lesson that was.

Yes, one thing at a time KC, and I gotta tell you Sweets, you are right to get off Tramadol before taking the Benzo out of play. I feel much much better tapering Klonopin than should theoretically be possible. I believe that is because it is the last drug I am on. And I recovered from the withdrawal before I started tapering a Benzo. One at a time...

FrankM, I am so glad you did not hit Order Now ... Exactly ... another 4 days of hell?NO THANK YOU!

HOPE! I'm so happy to hear you are doing well. I know ..  I know ... you write, " I laugh and finally realize that I don't have to be that "peppy" little person around other people.  I was really worried that getting off of the Trams would take away my "good" moods.  Emily and Fred had both told me that this part of me would not go away.  I am gonna have to admit.... I wasn't so sure if this was gonna be the case with ME."

Yep yep. I can understand how you would think that ... It's so important for people going thru withdrawal to understand that their thoughts are Tramadol thoughts. It has control of your brain for a good long time.

In a way; I have been very blessed to know some massive drug addicts. Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, Acid, Pill poppers ... alcoholics ...

These are the people who taught me about "Bad trips." They are the people who I had explain to me about vitamins or herbs they would use to stop a bad trip. They are the people who really, really made me realize that in withdrawal the BRAIN belongs to the substance. It's such an important lesson!

Don't trust your thoughts when you are coming off anything. It takes awhile for the Brain to heal ... But it does!

FRED!!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY BUDDY!!!!

:D Yep yep yep about your Dad and the irrational fear.

Well done Missy! I am so glad you started to count pills and you have decreased your dosage ... well done!

Michael I use Chiropractic, Massage and acupuncture and I actually have less pain now than when i was on pills. The last pill to get kicked out is Klonopin. Which I am tapering. I'm a very serious Yogini Sweets. Have been for years. In my case, opiates were superior to Tramadol. But  prefer to not take pills. Pill Fail.

pwillow ... Yep. You can decrease your dose slowly. Taper. We're all here to support you regardless of what you choose to do. It's smart of you to have realized that you now take it to avoid Tramadol withdrawal. What a messy trap huh?

Don't believe ... you write, "*****....A direct quote from my doctors..not just one but 2 seperate doctors one a pain management specialist...." Tramidol/ultram is not habit forming and is not addictive therefore you are not going through withdrawls....." no joke two seperate doctors same exact speech in the past 3 weeks."

Yeah ok ... Well, we all know differently right? You are Soooo close! So close! You'll be such a good Dad! Excited for you! :D

(((Kev)))) Oh no. Am I reading this correctly? You threw paint on your Doctor's Car? And you're settling out court? (Was it a joke or real?) I'd never delete anyone's post for being negative.  I'd have to go back and delete all my posts! LOL! The only reason I have ever deleted anyone's posts was for being disrespectful to fragile newbies and saying that Tramadol is safe and we should all basically go straight to H-E double toothpicks. Or Tramadol users who praise it to the high sky. None of us need any of that. So please ... no worries.

I'm sorry of any of you are thinking I would delete you or get mad ... so untrue ...

Kev I was so still NOT OK by Day 30. Like you said, I am also left with YEARS of regret and lost $$. I will tell you that it got intense and angry and unmanageable. The only thing that saved me was the Gratitude I had for still being alive. And not just alive but ALIVE!  feel things much more intensely. Umm yeah. If I had thought of it I would have acted in anger ...

The price I have paid for Tramadol was much too high. I came eventually to a place of Peace with what I am left with. But it is not pleasant at all to realize that everything could have been better.

Love and Healing,
Emily

KC - Dr Groovy has an additional Practice in Hawaii and less knowledge about Benzos than I do ... It's ... terrifying to know that he sees people who really really need HIM to know what he is doing.

PS. I cut my Klonopin 2 days ago, and am feeling like everything is HILARIOUS. A strange side effect huh? I thought I was going to die laughing yesterday when I went o the Grocery Store and there was a man there in pea green polyester Bell Bottoms and an orange top ... So inappropriate; but I have been having a non stop 'everything is SOooo Funny" attack for 48 hours now ...




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by kevzx81, Feb 12, 2009
Thanks to all for understanding my feelings...anyone want to explain it to my bank manager?
Still going with the tin of paint. Let HIM sit scratching his head wondering 'what did I do to desrverve this? ' then he'll share something of the emotional experience he's put me through. Then I'll feel better. I'm tired of getting mad. Now I'm getting even. All these crooked docs care about is money.Well ,wealth is an easy target ,24 hrs a day. If its good enough for the sufragettes its good enough for me!
Heavy snowfall and poor visibility tonight.Perfect.

I appreciate many here will not approve but I WILL NOT be a sh*t sponge for some dirty little money grubbing excuse for a human being. My conscience is clear.

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by kevzx81, Feb 12, 2009
KC67- But only if I'm caught and the lay of the land is in my favour.

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by EmilyPost, Feb 12, 2009
*looks around*

Um.

See? This is where a Klonopin taper intersects with Tramadol withdrawal ... So Kev? You're going to go throw paint on your Doctor's car? Tonight?

Am I supposed to tell Kev to not do it?

Keeeeevvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Don't do ettttttttttttttttttttttttttt

Ok well don't do it with lime green pants on?

OK ... Don't get caught?

Um. Kevvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

It's not that I don't approve, I'm worried you'll get caught and tossed in jail?



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by JK90, Feb 12, 2009
So, day 9 and it's my birthday! 19 today, today is a good day. I have been having gradually better sleep every night and the withdrawals are nearly %100 clear.

I have a feeling that my withdrawal will be easier than others here due to my age, and it is still terrible, so I really empathise with everyone here.

This place is extremely busy! Away for two days and it's so hard to keep up!

Emily, you are my role model. I was reading your journal mid last year, it took until last week for me to finally cut the tramadol, but mine is another life you have saved. Thank you so much.

Kev, I understand how you feel. I often feel the need for revenge if someone has wronged me. I'm not going to try to stop you, I would love to see it happen and do it myself. Just try to think what the consequences may be.

Frankm, I have been following your progress and I feel happy just knowing that someone else has gained their rights to sleep drug free! I can assure you, it will only get much much better.

KC67, ahh patience, the only thing I lack severely! The first few days of c/t knocked me back a bit! I didn't sleep properly until night 5, but that was the best nights sleep I have had for years, and waking up with energy, there is no greater feeling.

Warrior, you have already tapered down to 3 pills, that is fantastic! I and everyone will support you in your endevour, you've already done the hard part by joining in. The support you recieve here will make it 100x easier than going it alone.

It's been blizzard conditions here in the UK and it all started back on the first day I quit tramadol! Is it a sign!? Still snowing now, I feel I will be snowed in again, it saved me from having to go to uni for the whole first week. Great!!

Thankyou so much for everyone who has posted here, I can only hope we can help more people. A couple of people in my family take this drug, and I am going to point them here.

Thankyou all,
JK

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by EmilyPost, Feb 12, 2009
HAPPY BIRTHDAY JK90!!!

You're very kind :D Thanks! Blizzard? No! It's been very cold here too! But no Blizzard!

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by frankm12, Feb 12, 2009
JK90, How funny about the blizzard conditions there in the UK, I didn't think that the UK got much snowfall. I spent 13 years in Germany as a military dependant (Mother German girl, real dad who I never met American GI who left her when she was 6 mos. pregnant to go back to America. I talked to him one time for about 45 minutes about 15 years ago,and he said that he had married, no kids, wanted to come meet me and fly me to Jersey to meet the family, then I never heard another word. Strange. He's some Head of a Bank in Houston, his wife is I believe a marketing exec with Exxon-Mobil. Maybe he was too embarrassed about an illegitimate lovechild that would possibly tarnish his and her image in their upper-crust exclusive world?? Who knows, his loss)(Sorry I went on the rant). Any way, when I was in Germany I remember that UK usually only had rain. Hmmm. Heck, on my first day of trama wd's , it was 75 degrees and sunny here in central Oklahoma, and yesterday on day 5 we had severe storms and Tornados that have killed about 15 people. I tell you, the warm weather has been a blessing.

Kev- Not my place to say what you should do and I have no idea of your Religious beliefs(I am spiritual, have a core belief in God and the teachings of the New Testament, yet I am not a flagellating Bible -Thumper either, and I now live in the heart of Bible-Thumper-land, the south central United States.), but Kev, man,..... think about this..... in a karma sort of way......instead of wasting negative energy de-facing the ignorant Dr.'s Automobile,...... how about trying ...forgiving him for his ignorance and greed....? I assure you that he HAS his own DEMONS that he fights and his world is far from perfect, even though it may seem that way...(I've learned from experience that 99% of the time that a Family that has a perfect appearance is usually the most screwed up of all). Let me paraphrase something here for you......' forgive the ignorant greedy doctor (place spiritual name here) , he has no freakin' clue how terrible Tramadol is......'
Man, you may just find that in a Karma sort of spiritual way that will surprisingly ease your soul..... because you have to remember.., we were NOT placed here in this world to have a life in paradise...., we are here to spiritually learn and grow... and the more love you let in and let out (forgiveness qualifies)  .... the more you will grow,... and heal... my prayers go out to you my man..... stay strong. God bless all.

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by JK90, Feb 12, 2009
Frankm, we don't get much snow at all. The first day I go on my withdrawal and it drops to -10 and we get the largest snowfall in decades, literally!

You have such a rich history, and you're right, it is his loss.

I'm off to bed anyway as it's 1am here. Good night!

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by kes68, Feb 12, 2009
Kev - I get the anger, frustration - that someone else has pulled the rug out from under you!  But in the end - it just means they win - and you lose again.  They still have control over you.  The hardest part of this whole damn thing is taking our lives back.  Right now I am trying to taper from a fairly high dose - if I think about how long it will take, how far I have to go, what symptoms I will go through - I am completely overwhelmed - and get the why bother, I can't do this feeling.
Try and take it one day at a time - just focus on what you can do today, at this moment that will keep you moving in the direction you want to go.  I know it sounds a bit corny - but you have to take small steps, and things will slowly fall into place. (if I was going to go with a little revenge vandalism - I would be thinking pink/orange - a real stand out colour)

I am doing okay - I have been down 50mg since Monday, and truthfully it has been a piece of cake!  I have been deathly ill with a cold/broncitis (I wish this had spell check!) so I have noticed nothing.  I am going to wait for the cold to pass before I go down another 50mg.  I guess I haven't really experienced the taper yet - so I will keep you posted as to how the next 50mg goes.


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by emergee, Feb 12, 2009
kev,  i just totally relate to your anger.  unfortunately and unlike you,   i have no one to blame but myself for my situation, and  man oh man am i struggling with negative,  bummer,  irritated , energy.    i have had a total,  i mean,  total ,  financial crash.   since the tram withdrawal.   overnight i became really really financially insecure.  

is this anger thing a brain thing from detox?  i think it is possible.  because mine flares really suddenly and wildly.   it is so clearly out of proportion that it is easy for me not to act on it.  but then i wasn't duped by a doctor either.   ( hmmmm,  come to think of it i have been having fantasies of breaking into my ex-husband's house and stealing my stuff back)

it is STILL so far far and away more manageable than my life with tram...

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by FinallyFred, Feb 13, 2009
Helloooo Everyoneeee:  I went to work today, had a a small birthday celebration, and IT TOOK ME AN HOUR TO CATCH UP WITH YOU ALL.  :)  You guys are real family.  The connection I have found with everyone here through our common addiction to this TERRIBLE drug is powerful.  

Thanks KC and Emily for the birthday wishes.  Yup, it's a pretty grand feeling to finally get past the irrational FEAR of never making it to 51 off my back.  There is no stopping me now!  I'm living FOREVER I tell you.

KC and Frankm, Each of you has such a powerful way with words.  And your respective determination and willingness to share is astonishing.   Rising stars in the "I kicked tramadol community."  Wahooo.

KC, You get my vote for the BEST ADVICE offered of the day, when you said, "Another therapeutic suggestion would be to help others in worse shape than you.  Although I don’t have the energy to do this right now (soon, soon, though I hope), it is good to volunteer with organizations like Salvation Army, City Rescue Mission, Homeless shelters, or nursing homes.  Even if it were for only 1 day, 1 hour, just helping serve a meal to them,… by helping others in need I believe you will find that your emotions amazingly change into positive energy".    

That has always been my experience as well.  Any tiny little minute that I can get outside of myself and do something/anything for someone else...my own troubles seem to grow strangly dim.  How about real simply things; change a light bulb for a neighbor, bathe the dog, offer to carry groceries for an older person (hee hee hee), shovel snow for someone or give someone a back rub all work.  

I suppose some discression is called for before rubbing "just anyone's" back.  I mean, I would take care before walking up to the old man at the grocery store in pea green polyester Bell Bottoms and an orange top ...before I would start a rubbing.  Kev's problems with the doc's car may be minor in comparison to assault charges.  

But the principle of getting outside ourselves and doing for others is wonderful therapy.

Best new word of the day:  "tramocrap", Frankm.  Well devised!

Hey Kes!  Sorry you aren't feeling well this week. I must admit, I was thinking of you when "warrior" posted here about tapering from 20 pills/day down to 3/day.   LIVING PROOF that it can be done.  

I also liked what YOU said in your own post, "focus on what you can do today, at this moment that will keep you moving in the direction you want to go.  I know it sounds a bit corny - but you have to take small steps, and things will slowly fall into place".    Good words.

I read some references to sneezing and vivid dreams.  I had those too.  It's crazy what sort of common, ODD BALL side affects withdrawing from this drug throws off as we go. Go figure: sneezing and vivid dreams.   I'd like to better understand this receptor inhibitor stuff, but not today.

Today it's enough just to know that I didn't take any trams.

Today it's enough just to put another day between my last tramapill and this moment.

Today I may still have symptoms of my tram-a-use.

But if I continue to have occassional symptoms now after more than 70 days off this thing,

What sort of power does this MIGHTY brain sucking drug posess?

What sort of DANGER was I really in while taking this drug?

If it's powerful enough to hurt me this badly when I stopped feeding the madness?

I don't know what a brain receptor is, what they do, or the mechanisms whereby mine were DRESSED UP, SHUT DOWN OR CONFUSED for years,  but it tramadol is so powerful that it can

deliver the flu when it fears it's days are numbered,

deliver wild vivid dreams - days and weeks after it's last "feeding"

deliver stabbing pains and sleepless nights as it crawls out of my pours

screw with my concentration and mood long after I last partook of it's loveliness,

Then NO THANK YOU.  It can't have me.

*********

Okay, now Ima getting r-a-n-t-e-d right up.

How much did my  LOST YEARS really cost?  Sadly, I cannot tell you. The financial cost is the least of what I am pondering.  What I want to know and never can, is what my tramadol use really cost?  Opportunity costs if you will.

Consider this:  How many days and nights were wasted in my precious SHORT life (watch it guys:))

Days when I floated - oblivious to things that really MATTERED, but I was contrent NOT to see?

Days and nights STARRING blankly and smiling.

Go read my story about how my tramafog COST me my precious 13 year old Manx cat-friend.

When I was too tramed up to notice she was obviously so in need of my attention...

I was happily ZONED.

TRAM KILLS.

It may not have killed you and it may not have killed me.  But it kills.  

It killed me in tiny bits and pieces.  

It took things I can never get back.

Like clear cogent moments with my children.  

I was there, but I may as well NOT have been.

It stole my attention to details.  

Who knows what might have been...not me for sure!

Sadly, I will never know what might have been.

Whether kindness withheld to another may have made a difference?

To them? To me?  To us?  

Who will know?  Not me.  I was zoned.  Oblivious.

Who can tell me what I did not experience?  Or feel ? Or touch?, Or what or whom I did not care for?

Not me.  I was zoned. I will never know.

My natural desires, concerns, compassions  and emotions were robbed from me.

As I WILLINGLY sought to slowly kill all of them

One icidious pill after another.

So how much did my  LOST YEARS really cost me?  Sadly, I cannot tell you. The financial cost is NOT what I am pondering tonight.  What I want to know tonnight and never can KNOW, is what my tramadol use REALLY cost me?

Thank God I am being delivered of the affects of this terrible drug in my life today.  I just wish someone would have told me about the TRUE COSTS of this "safe, non-habit forming analgesic alternative to REAL opiates" before I started paying for them with my life.  Casue that's the stuff you never get back.

Courage, LOVE, and strength to you all!

Fred

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by kevzx81, Feb 13, 2009
FrankM- I also have my demons, but luckily no gods to overcome as well. Ive also heard a lot of arguments for why my behaviour should be better than than my enemies. Yes,why dont we go on turning the other cheek, give them all the encouragement they need to keep right on abusing us! AND I'd like to know exactly which demon it is that excuses a man slipping me antidepressants on the sly, and dont say ignorance, a doc is SUPPOSED to be a trained,informed professional. In any case its a done deed and I feel damned good about it thank you very much. Screw forgiveness, its a religious lie to keep us in our place. Give me catharsis any time, and thats what Im feeling right now.

Also I'd like someone to explain HOW to forgive because I'm damned if I know.Do I have to forgive everyone everything no matter what is done to me. Does god want me to be a sh*t sponge? If thats spirituality I'll take a pass. It sounds more like cowardice to me. It saves us having to find courage to fight back and renders us the most perfect of victims.And of course the children we leave behind!

Sorry to express such powerful and provocative views,its not my intent to upset anyone. BUT I really do believe that many of the morals we are conditioned with are just chains to bind us. History bears me out because  so-called authorities rarely follow the morals they set down for us ' little people '. An awakened person knows by their own feelings what is wrong by empathic resonance. Thats how I know that food for the goose is food for the gander. There is no argument in reason to sway me.



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by kevzx81, Feb 13, 2009
Frankm-PS-correct me if im wrong but kharma is like judgement day but on an installment plan right? Does any one really believe the universe has a moral function? Sorry dude but your views are very upsetting to me. I didnt "waste negatine energy" , rather ,I converted it. I dont have it, in a few hours he will ! I suggest you get a psychology  dictionary and look up 'jesus complex' just in case you think I'm purely running off at the mouth.

And I'm serious about wanting someone to tell me exactly HOW TO FORGIVE. Take me through the steps. Because there are things I can forgive and things I cant. Last time I asked someone this question( another 'spiritual' person ) they had no answer. HOW IS IT DONE??? ANYONE????

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by dontbelieve, Feb 13, 2009
so here is day 4....

I finally slept....I had the strangest dreams i have ever had in my life....but i slept...i fell asleep at 6am this morning and adside from the occassional wake up and check on the wife and go lay back down (my usual routine since i mostly work nights and sleep days...) I woke up at 4:30pm....oh wonderful glorious sleep. At this point I dont think I could go through my normal "day job" and still goes through this hell...and I admire those of you that do....however I am a Truck Driver and I dont feel like putting anyone elses life on the line because my head is in a fog...

I wish i could report that i feel better today than i did yesterday and that sleep was the answer....in a way i guess i do...I felt good enough to burn some chocolate chip cookies for my wife today...and i mean BURN...Not a chef..a Truck Driver..lol....

I still cant drink coffee without sneezing out what feels like a few pills at a time...Again not literally sneezing pills....but it feels like it.

I still cant eat without heading for the bathroom 5 minutes later...

I still have electricity running though my head...although not so much through the rest of my body....

I still feel like I am in a fog and walking around the house has become a great feat as of late...

But most of all....I still cant see any reason to call my friends who have pills and make this go away totally.

I again want to thank all of you....some of your great posts and wonderful advise got me through yesterday...and i know some more of them will help me through today and tommorrow.....

A little background...I live in a small hick town in california...I guess you can call me a hillbilly everyone else does...in fact its my nickname at work....I have always helped my family and friends with everything they needed to the best of my ability....I believe in that. However I never realized...I have never asked for any help for myself. I think thats what makes this posting so incredible to me....I dont have to ask for anything but the advise and support is there...and I have a chance to pass along my own....

My biological mother was a herion addict and as far as i know still is. Thank god for adoption....

My older Brother is a drug addict....and I have always resented my mother for showing him that side of her life....both of us are deathly afraid of needles...one day when i was 4 and yes i do very vividly recall this...I found one of her needles. Me and my older brother who was 8 were playing with it....and she freaked...but instead of her trying to explain how bad it was she stabbed us both in the leg with it to show us it was sharp and not to touch it anymore....2 years later me and my brother were adopted by a very loving aunt and uncle that i call mom and dad to this day....( my dad now was my Biological dads brother....my biological father died when i was 2 of a grand mall seizure....at the age of 29.)

I never took an asprin until I was well into the last of my 20's....I never wanted to be addicted to anything and according to my doctor ultram was the solution...as I said before even after calling him with withdrawl symptoms he still tells me its all in my head....so KEV i feel just like you...pissed off...but you have to find something great about your life to help you work past that....I am totally pissed....hell thats why my tag is DONT BELIEVE!...dont believe everything those doctors tell you..it is gonna take alot for me to believe a doctor again...

But then i think what about that doctor who found and took out a brain tumor from one of my best friends head just last week...there are some great doctors...but then again there are some that just got into the profession for hot nurses and great money...

I am starting to think of it like everything else....I was a boxer....I trained and practiced for years....and my trainers would tell me you are going to make it boy...you are the next big hitter and man i ate it up!...but after a 10-2 start i got beat pretty bad...by someone i under estimated. And I quit...

Yeah i could have continued i wasnt that hurt...but after that bad beat i knew i wasnt the next big thing...i was in the wrong profession....and i will put money on it that those trainers would have continued to tell me how great i was and how i was going to be the best! Now the way i see it you can look at this two ways

#1 )    I QUIT...and never gave it a chance to see where it could take me...

or...

#2) I got out before i got in too deep and was somewhere i didnt have any right to be in the first place because my heart was no longer in it....

I opt for #2....and this is where i think alot of people get confused...

Doctors are no different...I worked for a teaching hospital for 5 years....alot of new doctors get way in over thier heads...and they have trainers telling them yeah you are going to be the best you can do it!....but remember by the time they get in too far and thier heart is really not in it....they cant just walk away....they have student loans and all that pressure from family and friends....should they have dropped out when they realized that their heart wasnt in it?? of course! and that is why we have doctors who dont take the time and dont research these meds they hand out....like tramidol/ultram.....

and now thats how i choose to look at it....i could be way off....but i dont think so.

Dont get me wrong...I hate the doctor that got me on this stuff and didnt take the time to research it....putting my life and alot of other people on the roads in danger...

I just have to keep that in my head to keep me from doing the same thing or worse than what KEV wants to do...

Some days i think, I could have went farther with fighting.....i could have trained harder and i didnt stop training after i quit fighting....i was convinenced i could do better in mixed martial arts....but again...my heart wasnt in it....

So I am a Truck Driver....But I love it. I like the feeling of going to work everyday and being out of the office....( yeah been there for a while too...) and making my own day go how i want it to...i control where that truck goes...and how fast and what music I want to listen too...( hank williams ) and what time I eat....its freedom....

Now I have to gain one more FREEDOM....the freedom to choose what i put in my body...pills or otherwise...

Sorry i got off on a tangent there but maybe that will help someone too...

BRING IT ON DAY 5!!!!! I WILL DEFEAT YOU TOO...and for the moment i feel like i have the heart of a fighter again....


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by FinallyFred, Feb 13, 2009
Kev,  So the deed is done, huh?   I'd love to see the guys face in the morning, but we better not go there.

I don't claim to be a spiritual person, but let me take a whack at your question.

Since you asked about "forgiveness", to my way of thinking, I actually am not sure anyone can forgive someone else unless they ask for forgiveness, right?  So this may be a mute issue because from what you have described, good old doc hasn't "asked" to be forgiven, nor has he probably even acknowledged he did anything needing forgiveness for.  Which of course is probably the REALLY madening thing.

But could you release the anger you feel, thereby improving YOUR quality of life if you wanted to do so?  Is that a kind of forgiveness?  Not sure.  DOC is a jackass, uncaring and greedy.  But as someone said here earlier, hodling such strong feelings toward him, isn't harming him, it could be harming yourself.  By harboring ill will toward him, you are allowing him to control you (unless the deed you did got that ill will out of your system for yourself)

Could you take any of the lingering anger you feel toward him and mentally give up the right to feel those things?  I appreciate that this may be a stretch, but could you mentally release those feelings toward old DOC?  No amount of anger that you still hold for him today can change eitherr the past or where you are at today.

Any way you look at it Kev,  I for one just want the best for you, whatever that is.  Keep talking to us.

Fred

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by dontbelieve, Feb 13, 2009
wow KEV you sound like me when i was 10 yrs younger...if you planned to do something i was going to have to forgive them ****** dont do it!!! And if you did...dont come back...exit stage left...

Kev nobody can tell you how to forgive...everyone is different in that...Everyone used to tell me I had a "hitman" mentality...Meaning you want forgiveness????...yeah i got enough bullets for that....

Kev I am semi religious...I believe but its getting harder some days...

And the only advise i can give you is....give it time....

it may be 10 yrs it may be 50 as you lay on your death bed and it may never come for some things.

there are no steps to forgiveness....and i challange anyone to tell me if they can produce an accurate one that will work for everyone....

but kev....I can tell you this...as you change in life things you may have thought unforgivable before can change...and suddenly you are able to forgive...i personally dont think there is any way to change that before you are ready.

Trust me there are times i still get that hitman mentality back....like the time my brothers girlfriend called to tell me he was in the hospital because he got beat up at work with a baseball bat...trust me the shotgun is still loaded for that guy....the only difference from 10 yrs. ago to now.....is that this guy who did this is still walking on is own power....without feeding tubes draggin behind him...I cant say he will always have such good fortune but I dont look for the opportunity anymore....

So again kev...no one can tell you how to forgive....just have patience....

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by kevzx81, Feb 13, 2009
Fred-so good to hear your voice. It must be the lawyer in you that so easily inentifies all my 'clauses'! Hope that makes sense. I agree with everything you say, youve identified my 'sticking points' so well. If ever I need legal help youd be my first choice.
I agree that carrying/holding anger can harm me, but I can truly say that I have less now than before. I wouldnt say there is any satisfaction except in the sense of his experiencing his own ' what did I do to deserve this' moment.
Of course I can give up the right to those feelings. That is exactly what I must do at some point.I am also  aware that anxiety,anger and anarchy are an alliterative grouping that I dont want to explore in any depth!!! After I've slept I'll know if its time to give up that right Fred. I hope it is. But if it isnt I'll give it one more try and concede in my own best interests no matter what I feel after that.

DontBelieve-this is a really whacked out way to meet each other huh? You got it so right with 'hitman mentality'. I suspect we might have some amusing albeit painful stories to compare, though I think we should spare the good folks here!  
I'm glad to meet someone who has the unfortunate but obviously concrete experience to discuss this. Everything you say sounds reasonable too, but most of all what I hear in your reply is that you truly KNOW how I feel and a whole lot more.
Thats a painful memory to relive for someone elses benefit. THANK YOU.

Thanks to everyone for responding on this difficult stuff, its very brave and I do appreciate it.

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by kes68, Feb 13, 2009
Okay - so to beat a dead Horse:

Kev, there is no such thing as should or must forgive.  Nor can we force ourselves to do so.  I firmly believe somethings are beyond forgiveness.
I have spent much energy in anger, being the victim - for years it was a slow burn that would burst into flames in a moment.  My outburst of anger/revenge had little effect - except on me.  I felt an immediate relief, followed by intensified anger.  I am not sure when I realized that no matter what I did, no matter how the other person responded it couldn't undo the past, the pain, the damage.  So what I did was slowly accept this, allowed myself to not be angry - I shifted my focus to not letting it have one more moment of my life.  I had no control then - but I sure as hell did now, and I used that power to move forward - to accept the fact that I had, had part of my life stolen from me, and now it was up to me to move forward or stay stuck.  
Have I forgiven?  No - will I ever? No - but I have moved past, I feel sad, but not anger - it is no longer the focus of my life - just a part of my past.  

Hang in there!    

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by dontbelieve, Feb 13, 2009
lol... ah Kev i have got stories...lol...and if they can help someone else no matter how painful they are to me....i have to share them.

When I was younger i had alot of anger...and the size and ability to back it up...I wasnt the nicest guy you wanted to meet...and strangely enough people liked me for that...as i got older i realized it was fear...people feared me...and i didnt like that....and thankfully i am not that guy anymore.....

My father turns 72 today...my adopted dad. I turned 34 on the 4th of Febuary. I figure it like this...i learned how to be what I am from my dad and his crazy stories of life and other things i cant talk about....lol...but they got him to 72...and me to 34...so if they can help anyone else my brain is your playground.

I think of the great stories my biological dad had to tell...and nobody got to hear them....i mean i know a few but not from his perspective...i dont want that to happen to me....

AS a matter of fact: HERES A GREAT ONE FOR ALL THAT HAPPENED ABOUT 2 HOURS AGO....

I have been soaking in the bath tub for the last few days at least once a day....dont know that it helps but i will try anything right now...its about 3:00am cali time and my wife who is 7 months pregnant and on bedrest calls out to me....
I hear "baby!!!" and i am thinking **** now i have to get out of this tub...but then i hear " I want ROASTED MARSHMELLOWS!!!! "...so from the tub I hollar back " ok doll i will fire up the bbq you go get the marshmellows..." half joking but if thats what will make her happy im good with that...now i assume shes kidding...but i play along...i damn near drown in the tub when i hear coming from the kitchen " baby we dont have marshmellows just lucky charms cereal ones....think that'll work???...." and now I am naked in the tub feeling like the devil has me by the throat and i burst into laughter...hell i am smiling just writing this...are you kidding me!?! I still have a sense of humor!.....

I really needed that today. So for those of you who are going through these withdrawls from hell at home by yourself...i am going to keep sharing these stories that make me laugh...hopefully as you start to feel better they will make you laugh too...and even if you are having that " I aint going to smile...(excuse me I'm hillbilly)... I mean the I am not going to smile today day....maybe my crazy days and thoughts will help bring out that smile a little bit....everyone needs to laugh.

KEV: i am here for you whenever you need... send me a message and i will give you my email if you would like...
and that goes for anyone who needs help to make it through this mess....

Fred: you give great advise...i could tell right away i had to read all your post...thanks alot.

Emily: thanks for getting this going....you are so knowledgeable and give great advise and your day by day has helped me tremedously....thank you so much...i really appreciated your comment on being a good dad....i am scared thats for sure but I cant wait....

KC: i am right here with you...same thing bring on day 5.....we can get through it together....you have been most accurate to exactly how I am feeling....its a good feeling to know i am not the only one....keep up the good work and since you keep inspiring me I will try to do the same for you...

i could keep adding names but i gotta keep scrolling up and my hand is tired...lol...but you all are great...thank you all so much...

I am having a baby boy at the end of april...his name will be JOHN PATRICK.....John for my biological father and Patrick for my best friend in the world...Unfortunately my nephew is named John also so we have decided our son will go by "Patrick".Heres the crazy part...my wife and i decided this 3 months before we knew she was pregnant....our due date is april 24th...my best friend Patricks birthday...APRIL 25th...what day do yall think that kid will be born???...lol...

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by dontbelieve, Feb 13, 2009
OK i just had a chance to go read the last posts from the other journal....

Frankm12: thanks alot...very encouraging...and no thanks for T.O..lol...he will be out of dallas before the season starts...but please god not in OAKLAND....

to answer your question...yes i personally know a driver who has failed his DOT on Ultram alone...I can only tell of his experience as he is one of the three fighting to get his job back...
He works for UPS. Now keep this in mind...as a former driver manager i can for sure tell you different companies test not just by DOT but by their own guidelines as well...and UPS is one of them...they are stricter than most.

I am not sure if DOT is actually testing for ultram but i can tell you would be fine at 15 days...in any event...even narcotic...its the randoms that get people...i have had back to backs 2 times...once last year...and i have went over a year without a test at all...its computerized and completely random....I have never failed a dot but i think they should add ultram for sure...

I am currently back in the job hunt another great reason to get this nastiness from my body...and i may indeed have to go back to long haul even though i dont want to....just no good jobs in hillbillyville california....and i can tell ya...if this stuff makes me feel this bad now....imagine what it was doing to my driving skills...slow reflexes....

anyway...to all others...i have found a great new way to pass the withdrawl blues.....$40 on ebay....its a little mosquito helicopter remote control....it flies in the house...and i am good enough with it to lay on the couch and chase poor Roscoe dog and the two cats around the house....hahaha....oh how they run...cats get excersized i am amused....who loses really???....

Ok instead of dont believe some of you might wish to call me "mean animal abuser" now instead but i assure you no animals are harmed in this event....i did land it on the dog once...but he just looked at me like as to say " do you find this funny?!?! I will now eat your toy and your foot!!!!......" or maybe he was saying " first you gotta ask yourself did he shoot 5...or did he shoot 6....and then you gotta ask yourself do i feel lucky?!?! Well do ya punk!?!....." i dont know exactly what he was saying as i do not speak dog...but he had that cold clint eastwood glare.....

The cats on the other hand get that deer in the headlights look....as to say " for the love of god....its armegeddon!!!! Then my 22 pound cat proceeds to run....while the much smaller and much older cat....( dads favorite) proceeds to find new ways to attack this new fangled flying contraption...oh its hilarious!!!.....

its really funny to watch but my small 13 yr old cat runs the house.....she eats first ...when i refill the water she drinks first and sometimes i can tell shes just taking her time to **** off the other cat and the dog....then comes the big cat who the dog fears...the dog will lay in the hallwy whining if the cat is in his way....and hes a pitbull....but get him in the backyard and its different...dog owns the yard.... anyway just another amusing rambling because i cant sleep yet....but i am getting tired....


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by warrior3071, Feb 13, 2009
After reading e/o post, i'm feeling so much right now ... how to put it into words.  TIME lost, FRIENDS lost, PROFESSIONAL opportunites lost ... I have been on tramadol 10 years, but have lost so much more than time - I can hardly stand to contemplate yet.  

Funny part:  10 years ago, I was detoxing off percocets (after brain surgery) when i decided to try the (SAFER) tramadol my neurologist gave me - was hoping to ease the body aches, you see.  1 hour later, all withdrawal gone  ------- THAT day, feeling, moment i remember crystal clear.  I had FOUND the answer.  The rest of my last 10 years .... one painful, shameful memory after another.  it was the beginning of the end of the life I had known.

Today though - thanks so much to EACH one of you, I feel like BEGINNING of a life   :-)   I believe its true that physical and emotional pain in ourlives are teachers.  right now, I feel like Einstein - genius.  

A miracle :  even in my stupor (or despite it), I was led to a wonderful, sweet, loving man.  We were married 7 months ago.  I am a 44 year old woman, FIRST marriage, no children.  Just a pilot's license to be proud of.

I was so scared that going off tram, I was going to discover I had married the wrong man.  But instead, am realizing how blessed I am to have him in my life.  love him more and more every day.  Can't wait to feel loving intimacy SOBER !  how beautiful that must be ....

20 trams/day  down to 3/day in 10 days.  been on 3/day for 4 days.  next step, 2/5 a day.  I am finally working (consulting) at a major company and can't afford to go more crazy than I already have and lose this job too.  

a little scared about hitting 0/day.  

thank you all so much.  

Bless you ~
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by dontbelieve, Feb 13, 2009
warrior: I was terrified to go to 0 a day....

My wife...shes so supportive. She knows the pain i live with and on certian days gives me a wide birth when i need it.

The last thing i want is to destroy this marriage...and i am sure you have felt the same...but i cant explain it after almost 5 days of no ultram....i am realizing she isnt going anywhere and I have the love i always wanted.

As far as the job goes...i lost a job at a government lab at the age of 30....i was on top of the world with that job. great money...new house new cars new everything....my problem was the wrong love...shortly after my ex left the house i lost everything but the house...it was paid off....and i still have it and a new one.

all of that was thanks to vicoden and soma...12 months ago i to opted for ultram...18 pills a day....the day i got married...beautiful yosemite wedding ( see picture in profile) i was on ultram/norco...honeymoon in jamaica...10 days of bliss...on ultram/norco...to this day i wish i had experienced all that drug free...it was great on my meds but it could have been so much better....so i believe you are on the right path....imagine what you feel now....that love of your new husband...drug free. AS you may have read i am having my first kid in two months....and i am doing it drug free...its not the easy road and it ***** for a while from all i have read but the reward....in the end to experience that joy drug free...i cant wait.

so warrior i am here to talk to....as well as many others who give great advise and offer great support...

and the way i see it you have more than a pilots license....you have love...and in my eyes that is the most important thing we can have...although a pilot license is pretty damn cool....( as i sit here and look at my remote control helicopters ) keep at it warrior...we can all do this together....

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by suzipen, Feb 13, 2009
Oh My!!! What a busy place.............I am gone for a small while and look what happens!  I think its great of course that ya'll are finding us. Its upsetting, however, thinking about how many are out there who DONT find us, and dont realize what tramocrap   ( yep, like that one) is doing to them .
I want to respond to everyone..........but I would be on here way to long.  I started school this week ya know, and today I am off, as are my kids, so I have tons to do.

KC- You will start feeling better anyday. I am NOT a patient person either. But, it will come, and be oh so worth it! The
mental issues hit me the hardest as well.  Like Fred, I loved your thought about helping others. That is the main        reason I am so excited about becoming a nurse. Its very rewarding to actually make a difference by helping someone.

Emily-  I was happy to hear from you. I think its true that you are becoming somewhat of a celebrity. So, when you write your book and become famous, make sure you dont forget about us little people! LOL!!
As far as ativan goes, I am still taking it. I took xanax for years, but it turned on me BAD, so I switched to ativan. I want to go off of it, but I cant bring myself to start another w/d experience right now. I am just not there yet.
By the way, my husband has a pair of pea green bell bottoms...................................just kidding!!!

Happy Birthday (late tho it may be) to Fred and JK!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love birthdays!! Not so much mine, but I love planning birthday parties for others!  We should have a party! :)  I'll make the cake. I can visualize a cake with little white dots on it, and a BIG GIANT pac man ready to gobble them all up! ..........LOL!!........Kinda stupid, huh??  Hey, I have got my humor back, but I never said I was normal!

JK- You are so wise beyond your years!  You have a great future ahead of you. So So proud of you!!

Dontbelieve- your story is very touching. My eyes filled with tears imagining you as a child and what your mother did with the needle. That is horrible, BUT it is wonderful that you have risen above all that. Your little one, Patrick, is going to be a very lucky little boy. :)   Also I love your pet stories!  I have 2 dogs and 5 cats. Yes, you heard right. They are so funny and it has been very helpful having them all around. They can really take your mind off of some of the yucky w/d stuff.

Warrior- WELCOME! Love your name. We are warriors , arent we?!!  I think I need to change my name to something more interesting.    I am so glad you came out of the "background".  Post often, it will really help you.  I must say, a taper from 20 down to 3 is A SUPER BIG DEAL!!!  Be proud of yourself.

Missy- Keep it up! You will get there. Big hug to you!   I think of you often, just want you to know that.

Kes- Hope you feel better with the cold. That su***!   But, Keep up the taper. Its great that you're not feeling it.

Frankm- DAY 7!!  Yay!  You are on your way!  I can so relate to the crazy dreams! But , like you said, at least you are sleeping. And that in itself is a great feat!!  And when I dream, I know that my mind is working again. And I am talking CRAZY-wake-up-and -not -know-whats-real-dreams!

Fred-   I feel the same way about this board. You guys really feel like a family. I was busy, and not able to check in here, and I missed you all.  One of your recent posts really struck a chord with me.  

Something really hit me hard this week, and I can only attribute it to the 5 years of tramafog. Heres what happened.
My oldest son (hes 14)  has been struggling at school.
He was a terrific student, until 5th grade. About 4 years ago. Hmmmmmm. What else happened 4 years ago??
Well, that was when I was really increasing my dose of tramocrap.  Since stopping, I have realized things that I have missed out on, and have really felt guilty about my kids. They are great kids.
Anyway, he is now in the 8th grade. His grades are really slipping right now. So I have made some changes, and have really been spending more time helping him with homework,etc. WELL, he asked his dad the other day, WHY, all of a sudden , after all these years, am I taking such an interest in his school work?
What?? I THOUGHT I had been paying attention to his schoolwork. I thought I was being a good mom.
He has been having issues for quite awhile now, but only NOW that my brain is becoming clear am I realizing this.
Only now, I am able to handle it.
Only now, I am able to help him.
Its a very sad thing for me to realize hes been thinking I didnt care about his education. Hes also probably thought I didnt care about other things as well. I have talked to him about tramadol. Just what I think he can handle.
I cant redo the last 5 years but I can go forward, and be the best mom I can from now on. I just hope its not too late.
I mean, I still remember things that happened when I was 9 or 10, and still get mad about it.  

Emergee-  I too have still uncontrollable bursts of anger. Not as much now, but they still happen. When it happens, I try to stay away from everyone. Depression still lingers as well. I guess, the road is longer than I thought. BUT, Like you said, it is still much better than anyday on tram!  
And if you do decide to break into ex-husbands house- call me. I will go with you! I think I was a cat burgaler (spelling?)
in a previous life.

Kev-  KEV!!!  
I am not going to tell you what you should have or should not have done. BUT, I will say, and I am just being HONEST. I think its hillarious what you did. I am not a bad person, and I am not a vindictive person. And I sure dont think you are either.  The thought of him asking himself, why? WHY? Just too funny!!  Sorry, everyone.  But, this board is all about honesty. Now, would I have the guts to do it?? Probably not. Do I judge you for doing it?? NO WAY!!
Have I thought about doing something like that?  YOU BET!
This being said,( I know, you were just waiting on this part)  I do agree we have to let go of our anger and resentment. Because the only person it is hurting is ourself.
But, I think you know that. And you will do that eventually.

Ok, I gotta go. My kids are hungry, my laundry has reached mass proportions, my animals are stalking me- waiting to be fed, and I am not even dressed yet!!

love,suzi

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by suzipen, Feb 13, 2009
WarriorPage-
Wow!!  From 20 to 3 in 10 days.  I didnt realize you did it that quickly. Take care of yourself. I did a fast taper too.
like Emily has always said- Be very gentle with yourself.  You are amazing.
Your name truly fits you.

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by warrior3071, Feb 13, 2009
dontbelieve ~

thank you for writing back to me.  I do have love - love from others.  But not much love for me just yet.  But I DO have HOPE.  And because of all seen in these last few days (on this site), understanding of WHY I have been such an emotional, psychological mess these last... oh, God ... TEN years of my life.

I have always been an addict.  Alcohol was my first chemical love – got sober in 1990.  Had brain surgery in 1998 – the beginning of my relationship with little white pills - tramadol.

In 2001, on 8 tramadols/day, I experienced my mom's death high ... you see, I found one of her morphine pills just under her bed in our dining room ….. just hours before we held her and she died.  I wanted out of the emotional pain so bad I didn't even think about taking that pill.  I had never taken anything so strong before, so when she finally passed, while e/o else was crying and holding her / each other ... I was looking up (as if to Heaven) , smiling... ‘happy she was at rest’ ….  I was high.  

I'm crying now though, literally ~ as I’m typing.  But at least I’m not still trying to kill myself for (I have believed for so long about myself) being a "loser"  I think I know in my HEAD that I'm not a failure or loser; just a victim of an unknown drug at the time / generations of addiction on both sides of family;    but in my HEART ... way down deep ... still have a long way to go towards forgiving myself.

I hope to have the courage to put my ugly past out for you all to see, in the light of day; I know most of you will understand.  There is so much more to my story.  Mom’s death is just the beginning of the guilt and shame ….  

But I think, like getting the poison out of our bodies, getting that ‘poison’ out of my mind will be the beginning of being truly free.  Does that make sense ?

I’m not crying anymore .    If you  (all)  can be free of drugs, so can I !  I’m actually starting to think I am a  “Warrior”

Page  (Warrior3071)

“If God is your co-pilot, switch places”  


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by warrior3071, Feb 13, 2009
2:00 pm EST :   URGENT!!   anyone out there - having serious cravings

am so close to taking a tramadol.  don't know where this is coming from ?!!

have been taking 1/2 every four hours, titrating ok - but this anxiety just hit BAD again and am so tempted ....

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by suzipen, Feb 13, 2009
Page-
Dont give in!!!!!  Trust me, you have come such a long way!!!!!!  I'm here!

Remember this a war! Dont let this stupid little white pill win!

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by suzipen, Feb 13, 2009
I am here, I just wanted to get that sent asap so you would know I am here.
I know some people dont get cravings.  I DID however.  I know know exactly how you are feeling.
I also know how strong you are. You went from 20 to 3!  That is INCREDIBLE!
Are you taking anything else for anxiety?
Have you ever taken valerian? It works for some.  I dont know where you live, but can you go out and walk?


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by warrior3071, Feb 13, 2009
suzipen:    THANK YOU !!   .......

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by EmilyPost, Feb 13, 2009
Page,

It makes sense that you are havng a craving after writng all that you did. It stirs stuff up, you know? It's healng to wrte about what drove you, but also triggering.

Stay in the moment.

Don't take extra rat turds.

Breathe n to the count of 5 and out to the count of 10.

Cry if you can ...

(((Page)))

Love and Healing,
Emly

It's rainng here and we have El Nina ... arctc cold for So Cal and I swear today my back feels like broken glass. I'm going to have a massage in an hour and a half ... I'm not taking any pills cause they make it hurt more ...

Remembering the days on tons and tons of pills ... rollng around on the floor beggng DH to take me to te ER .. wth were they gonna do for me there? Gve me more pills?


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by warrior3071, Feb 13, 2009
I haven't taken one.  They are 6 " away in my purse (i'm at work).

I've been reading other's posts to get my mind of it.  I'm trying to remember how bad it gets and WILL get if I go back up - even just 1 pill.

I do take valerian / magnesium ... have nothing here now, though.  

Done at work in 1.5 hours and then will blast the music on the way home :-)  

Still want to take one, though !!

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by EmilyPost, Feb 13, 2009
Typo City ... my keyboard is all whacked ... please excuse .. my vowels are broken ... I need to BUY A VOWEL!

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by suzipen, Feb 13, 2009
WARRIOR-  Yes, you are a warrior!  Not everyone can fly a plane. But you can. That is special. I hope you know how special you are.
Is there anyway you can give your pills to your husband?  That way he can give you what you need for that day. And no more. This works for some people.
You really need to keep your mind occupied with something else.

ALSO, it is DANGEROUS to take a large amount after you have tapered. You just cant go back to the same amount you were taking.

I HATE TRAMADOL!!  Hate It!!!!  We are all so much better than tramadol. Its an evil drug, and it can kill you.

Please respond Page.  How are doing now?????

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by frankm12, Feb 13, 2009
Warrior- I remember the same thing when my mother died last Feb. 18th from Lou Gehrigs disease. The day after she died, while cleaning out her house, I found the Tramocrap, and of course began using. I remember a few days later, when we had a small family service at her house and then went out to the 'mountains' of SW Oklahoma to carry out her wishes for her ashes to be scattered out at her favorite place, even though I had tears I knew the Tramocrap was numbing me, and not allowing all the tears out so I could begin a real healing process. Well, on day 2 of the withdrawals I got those tears out and some, as you know all the nostalgia and depression the lack of the 'anti-depressant' in Tramocrap causes. It was a step I feel.
Don't beat yourself up about the chemicals and your history with them, we all have that history here and will all be fighting the fight the rest of our lives. It just comes down to a decision of whether we want to live and feel in the reality forming around us and be a part of it, or if we want to float through the ups and downs of life flatlined, unknowing, and uncaring. Do we deal with our pain(whether mental OR physical), or do we not, that's the question. There are no rights or wrongs, as all of our situations are different, you just to make the decision that you deep down really want. Most of the time, unfortunately, its' the hardest one.
You are amazing! You have been on these 10 YEARS!!! I was on them for 10 MONTHS. I went through hell and back going Cold Turkey after 10 mos. use(300mg-400mg 4 times a day), so I imagine your wd's are MUCH WORSE. BUT YOU WILL BE OK!!!! I hope you don't take one......, but sure will understand if you did. This is a LONG JOURNEY,...even for just a short time user like myself. Like Emily says, sometimes it can be two steps forward, one step back.  Whatever you do or have done- stay positive, you'll be okay in the long run, and that's what matters. From what I have read- you are very strong.


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by warrior3071, Feb 13, 2009
Still haven't taken one.  But this is one-minute-at-a-time .... BIG TIME.

Emily, thank you.  I'm so sorry you're hurting.... it's cold here in N. VA and my legs ache, which is MOSTLY what is causing the craving.  1 tramadol, pain gone  ... only to come back though, so NOT worth it.

Did you know tramadol has Magnesium in it (which helps with muscle pain)??  Just found out, so it makes sense that a drastic drop in that (by NOT taking 20 tramadols a day !! ) would make normal aches SEEM worse.  

Learning about this stuff is helping me keep mind busy.

Plus:   doing your breathing thing  ~ before i started typing, that is  :-)


"If God is your co-pilot, switch places."  by Unknown

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by frankm12, Feb 13, 2009
Hi all -T Day 7 . I am actually sleeping normally again, though the last two nights I have been in a vivid dream world so lucid it's mind-boggling. Previous lives deeply encoded in my DNA perhaps?? Whatever, the dreams have been a trip, to say the least. I did feel VERY tired after taking my son to school, but fought the urge to sleep more and got busy cleaning house, just basically staying active. I am feeling SO MUCH BETTER, though I still get a bit of the blues and sweats in small waves from time to time, though much less frequently now. Almost through the physical withdrawal, then on to the mental part the rest of my life. Hope everyone is doing well.

Kev- Karma is simply 'what goes around, comes around'.... nothing that is written down somewhere for people to follow. Gods to answer to? No, that's not where I was coming from..... If you have ever read the teachings of Christ of how we should live.... you would see it so funny and ironic that the ones that thump on the Bible the most seem to not get the message...., if you look at history.., I think there could be an argument made that the People whom actually lived most in accordance of what Jesus preached would have to be the Native American Indians, whom by some unbeknownst miracle, DIDN"T HAVE A BIBLE TO TELL THEM HOW TO LIVE WITH GOD!!!! It wasn't until they were introduced to the Bible and the folks that brought them, that many of them that were introduced to 'firewater' became ADDICTS!!!! AMAZING HUH??? Anyway, I have NO IDEA where I am going with this so I'll stop........ Gotta say thinking of the look on the good Drs. face as he walked up to his car gives me a bit of a chuckle...... Hey ,... we're all human...

don'tbelieve- You don't want T.O.???? You crazy??LOL.. I bet AL does though,-man I'd be happy with a 4th rounder. Truth is, T.O. is going NOWHERE and will play in Dallas in 2009. Maybe the Raiders can trade up and grab Michael Crabtree from Texas Tech,.. he's gonna be a stud.

Gotta go, hugs to all....

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by suzipen, Feb 13, 2009
Warrior Page,
I have to leave for awhile. I just want you to know I am sending you lots of positive thoughts right now.

Take care, and Be strong.

love,suzi

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by dontbelieve, Feb 13, 2009
ok warrior....

I am with you here...I just woke up from my 2 hour sleep for the day....and i thought i had got through that part...i woke up tingling everywhere and just plain mad...my feet wont quit vibrating and my body in general feels like the devil has me by the balls....but i wont take anything if you dont...

I am more hoping to appeal to your concern for others and want to help....but at the same time i am hoping to pass my strength to you...ultram is the devil...

be strong...and i will be strong with you....and i do have refills at the pharmacy i could go get....but i am looking at it like this...how many times am i going to go back to the damn pharmacy to spend money i dont have to get pills i dont need...and that are killing me....

dont give in...talk to your husband...this is what i did.....not only an hour ago....

I told my wife " baby please understand.....right now my body is tingly and freaking out...dont touch me. Talk to me and tell me its going to get better"....and we began to talk nascar...my favorite subject....and no joke within 45 minutes i began to feel better and she had me smiling....talk to your husband about something you both are really interested in....it may help take your mind off the devil pills and put you in a good place.....let me know how it goes...

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by dontbelieve, Feb 13, 2009
oops i forgot one thing....

FRANKM: ohhh i bet Mr.Davis is foaming at the mouth for T.O. and last i heard the "Cowgirls" may need to get him gone or they will be over cap....he is just paid to damn much....and that is something AL does love to do...pay alot for players that wont help the team...Jamarcus throws way to hard for T.O....we have a excellent reciever in Johnny Lee Higgins and a great TE who happens to be jamarcus's favorite target...if he could learn to slow down and throw the ball with touch we would be in great shape....and we did see a little of that at the end of this season.....so no thank you...lol.

and i apologise to all the others in this room who are not caring at all about football right now....I didnt mean to rant on but I just had too...lol.

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by warrior3071, Feb 13, 2009
dontbelieve ~  
thank you so much for reaching out to me.  I have actually been at work today, 2/13, not so much NOT working as trying hard not to use.  But at least I am here physically and doing what needs to be done.  More than I can say about myself 3 weeks ago.

Your strength at a few days is so inspiring to me.  If you can do it, I can KEEP doing it - right ? :-)

I love my husband so very much; but he has lived such a sheltered life - he has had the same cell phone for  FIVE years !  I can't really talk with him about this because he tries to look supportive, but honestly - his eyes glaze over .. he simple CAN'T understand any of this.  But he keeps saying "I'm here for you" and that's all I need from him.  Have a wonderful Valentines with your wife.


TO ALL:     YOU all are giving me the real strength - cuz only a warrior can talk to another warrior about the battle... just made that up ... kind of cool   :-)   my mind must be finally coming back.

heading home now.  Bless you all for your kindness ~


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by KC67, Feb 13, 2009
Day 5- Feb. 13, 2009

Today is actually a pretty GOOD day!  Day 5!  I can’t believe I actually made it through 5 days of this he77!  (*patting myself on the back*).  

Today I am experiencing a bit of anxiety & depression (not nearly as much as Days 1-4), sneezing (Geez!  when is this sneezing going to stop?!!  It just amazes me how our bodies rid us of toxins, poisons, and other substances that are NOT supposed to be there), mild intestinal discomfort (BIG improvement from Days 1-4),  mild (but bearable) overall pain – especially in my lower back which is where my pain originated, but… the best news of all is that I actually slept 6 full hours last night!  Can I get a big YAHOOOOO from the crowd???  I am a firm believer that sleep is so important and this drug robs you of good, deep, REM sleep – whether you are ON the Tram.or going through withdrawals.  Even when I was ON the Tram, I never really felt I had a good night’s rest.  Again, I have to ask, “What the heck kind of drug is this that messes with your brain, your opiate receptors, and the very cells of your body???”

As for cravings – as of today, I actually have a pretty strong resolve to keep on keepin’ on!  Yesterday, the Trama-voices were beckoning me to “just take one…you will feel much better…you won’t have to endure this uncomfortable-ness…just take one – it’s not going to hurt you”.  Thank God I resisted because today I have an entirely different perspective on this drug.  Do I believe there is hope that I can get my old personality back?  Today I answer, a resounding  “YES!”  Yesterday, I may have answered differently.  Now, mind you, I am VERY aware that these withdrawals are random and tomorrow I may feel differently, but I have made it my personal goal to make this a lifelong battle – and I am not going to allow Tram.to win.  

I found that I am happy today – perhaps it is just because I haven’t slept since Sunday and I am very grateful for the rest I received last night.  However, I think the “old” me – the one that USED to be happy, energetic, and loved to smile – is still in there someplace.  I think that was my biggest fear of jumping off the Tram-o-train (credit again goes to Fred for coining that awesome phrase)…the fear that I was a functional and better human being while on the Tram and that there was no way that I could ever STOP taking them (even though my pain had subsided) because they made me a better person!  

You see, Tramadol was a GRADUAL decline for me, which is why it was so hard to recognize that it had “turned” on me.  I kept thinking back to how great I felt when I FIRST started taking it (at low doses, mind you)  - how it relieved my back pain and how I felt so outgoing, upbeat, and social.  As more time passed, I began to think that there must be something wrong with ME because I didn't feel great anymore.  The first time I went for 4 days without it, I truly thought I was going insane.  It's a terrible feeling to feel that way.  The next time I tried to quit...same thing.  Then I found Emily's journal and now I am educated as to the varying ways this drug affects your mind and body.  

It took me weeks of reading ALL of the posts in Emily’s journal to get the strength to quit this drug !  Had I not been educated about the withdrawals, I think I would still be taking increasing doses of Tramadol.  

Thanks Emily for confirming what I felt deep in my heart…that anxiety and depression do NOT go “hand-in-hand”.  Why do so many docs think that and try to push antidepressants on people who suffer from anxiety ONLY?  Anyway, thanks…because now I feel stronger about saying “no thanks” when they try to push yet another drug on me.

((Kes)), ((Warrior)), ((Missy))  – keep going – you are doing great!  You can do it!  Warrior, I too have an intense need to NOT feel.  Whether it be Tramadol, alcohol, or whatever your drug of choice, I do NOT enjoy feeling pain.  However, I am learning…slowly…day by day to feel and be okay with it.  It IS possible.  Again, you can do it.  One second at a time.  Breathe.

((Suzie & Fred)) – thank God for people like you who have such a sweet spirit and truly WANT to help people.  Suzi, you will be an EXCELLENT nurse and I wish you the best!  And I love both yours and Fred’s sense of humor!  One more thing Suzi, I can relate to you and your son’s school issues.  I have a similar circumstance and I do NOT think it is too late to emerge from the Trama-fog and resume our coherent position as “mom”.

((Frankm)) – I am with you and know what you are going through.  We can do this – crazy trama-dreams and all! Also, I loved your wise words in the post about your Mom.  You said, “It’s about the chemicals and your history with them, we all have that history here and will all be fighting the fight the rest of our lives. It just comes down to a decision of whether we want to live and feel in the reality forming around us and be a part of it, or if we want to float through the ups and downs of life flatlined, unknowing, and uncaring.”  
You speak the truth my friend – especially on your comments on the Bible and kharma.

((DontBelieve)) – love your stories – I actually laughed several times while reading them!  It was a great feeling.

((Kev)) – Once again, I am not an expert on anything except for conveying the experiences I have experienced in my OWN life firsthand.  As for forgiveness, I personally forgive for the benefit of myself.  It just feels so good to “let go” of something that is consuming me.  Kev, I KNOW anger and I KNOW hurt and sadness.  I won’t go into details about my past, but I can assure you that I KNOW pain and suffering and anger.  When I finally “let go” of my anger and pain I felt like a heavy sack of concrete was lifted from my chest.  
As for seeking REVENGE to those who have wronged you:  Whether you believe in kharma, God, or in the flow of positive and negative energy to enforce “what comes around, goes around” – it sets you FREE to move on.  Trust me…I’ve been there and it feels WAY better to let it go than to hang onto it and let it poison you.  In MY experience, when I have “let go”,  I have found peace in the fact that a greater power has taken care of my revenge and that I do not have to do ANYTHING, but “let it go”.  The other alternative is to take your anger and turn it into something positive and beneficial – not only to yourself, but to others as well.  Only YOU know what means.

Sincerely with love and hope,
KC


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by daveat50, Feb 13, 2009
Folks, sorry - just haven't been on line lately. I made it to a week today. I thought I was doing really good and then the fog kicks back in again. This is a struggle but I'm not looking back. When I read stories of the folks who have gone much further then I, and yet they still come back to check in and encourage; that is cool.

Frankm - dude. You are so with it. I'm sleeping very well now and really only had one bad night. Glad to see you are keepin on.

Kev - I heard about you about a  journal day back. I am a musician also and enjoy the peace that sometimes is brought about in my psyche by strings-n-me. I will admit I was kind of amused by the whole paint the doctor's car thing. I can't remember who said it but they said to be sure and wear lime green pants? Obviously another clear thinker!

KC - YOU ARE GOING STRONG! I had a craving today and just washed it down with 6 beers and a bottle of...Oh never mind. That wasn't so funny! I'm kidding about washing it down. I just reached into my pocket where my ibuprofen is...and my ultram is now not...and kind of sighed with relief actually. I have removed myself from that environment of carrying it with me while at work. I shall follow your progress as I believe in you.

All I can say is I hope the fog lifts. I'd hate to think I actually got old while taking that ****! Some good years down the tube.

I'm doing well all. I'll check back in. I also fully support anyone just starting - believe me. Keep on going. In retrospect, and just for me alone I guess, quitting a 2 1/2 pack a day cigarette habit was a little harder then this. You know what happened when I quit cigarettes? I still lost a lot of my hair, I gained weight, and I  grew older anyway. But I made it.

Yet I remember every day that all it takes is just one puff of a cigarette and I could become addicted again.

The same goes with Ultram. Just one..and you may start having to quit all over again. No backsteps, no moonwalks, no no sliding. Do it.

All of us here are with you.

Take care and I'll check in over the course of the weekend. Thank you for your support.  

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by dontbelieve, Feb 14, 2009
ok question time....

very bad day for me....withdrawls all came back real hard....been in and out of sleep...


questions hopefully someone can answer for me...

1.weight loss....over the course of taking ultram i have lost 30 pounds in one month...i dont know if its from ultram or not but it was consistant with that time frame....right now i fluxuate alot...190-230....but i am tall....so 230-250 is normal for me...at fighting weight i was between 169-176....constisant training and conditioning to get there but now i just dont have the appitite...until yesterday..


2. WIERD cravings?.....last night or actually early this morning..i had to get up and was compelled to make fried eggs....which i normal do not eat...i had 8 of them before i was done..........thats right 8!.....I had an intense craving for a bloody mary( not a big drinker at all...)  today and some other random strange cravings...Apple Jacks Cereal....Chocolate covered bananas....just random strange stuff...anyone else?


3. felt ok yesterday all day....felt terrible today...i read alot on here and see thaat some days are good and some are bad so i have a feeling this is normal but it comes and goes today....


On a lighter note...I went to the store today with wifey and bought some random stuff that i didnt need....like 3 bags of jelly bellies....bananas and chocolate dipping stuff...(craving)...huge bottle of MR.BUBBLES....marshmellows ( wifeys craving) and motrin...lots of motrin...

I am having a real tough time sleeping....i also got some tylenol nighttime...has anyone tried this?...results?

whole other subject...I have been thinking about my choice for names on here and apparently was having a I AM MAD day when i picked the name DONTBELIEVE....Truth is I do believe....I believe i am going to be a better person minus ultram and I believe I can do it...I believe all of you are helping me and I hope i am helping at least one of you...

SO from now on I will sign off with the name i should have used.....

thank you all...

Hillbilly

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by kevzx81, Feb 14, 2009
Hi Kind People, so many points to respond to I dont know where to start. First, I feel better.
Fred- you've given me something I can really work with. I'm not sure either,that giving up the right to anger=forgiveness but its a mechanism I can get my hands round,if you know what I mean. I was afraid that folks would think I was being obtuse in requesting info on how to forgive, but I come from a very unforgiving background and really had no idea. This might sound crazy but no-one in my family EVER forgives ANYONE, EVER. period. Now I've shown myself I have the option to 'hit back' if I want to, I'm feeling more inclined to let go. I know that its not an option I can always indulge in but on this occasion I have demonstrated that doc does not have COMPLETE impunity.

Suzi- You so understand the focus of my action; to picture his face,the pulling of the hair and 'why me'. That was the EXACT picture in my mind as I threw the paint. Grass green on a gold Lexus, incidentally. His driveway is a real mess too. But it was an odd experience in some ways. Laughably hollywood in style, warm breath on the freezing air as I kneel to open the tin, I felt I should have been wearing a fedora!

KC- I take your point, but I'm not sure that what goes around does come around. certainly not for those with power. I am what you would call clinically incapable of faith due to parental trust issues in the past and I dont believe there is any positive force other than us monkeys on a good day. But you're right about moving on,ultimately,in the end, its the best way to heal myself. And I only had a little revenge really. I had the chance to do far more and with no chance of discovery but I didnt so I guess its a done deal, for which I'm grateful and, I have to admit,smugly satisfied. I find the idea that a higher power will take care of it for me simply impossible to accept. Every higher power or authority I have ever encountered has been corrupt and I include all notions of god in this reference. IF there is a god Im going to paint his car too!! The one authority I respect is experience and there seems plenty of it round here which has been a great help.

Frank-I can see that we could really heat the room up if we keep up this exchange. I cant respond to the American/Native indians point as I have little knowledge of their culture. As for jesus, I believe he was fool and beyond the saying' do unto others' I cant see what if anything of value he contributed. He didnt even care to tell us the world was round,low on info for the son of god lol. If theres one thing humans love its a scapegoat and jesus made a big mistake by leading people to believe that those kind of sacrifices are ok. The word 'christ' comes from the greek 'chrestos' meaning ' sacrifice'. I find the whole christian(or should I say 'sacrificial') concept truly gross. But if you think you have light to shed, I wont look a gift horse in the mouth and welcome your comments.

Dave- I guess this car thing is kind of doomed to show up in a song sometime in the future and could make good blues comedy. Sadly theres little else comedic about tram w/d so I might come up short on verses!

Emily- Thanks for letting me run with this, I really thought I might get in trouble because I was discussing an intent to commit crime here, not because you would personally disapprove. So no, I wasnt expecting you to intervene, rather I was fearing that next time I visited that I wouldnt get past the log in page. I know that you made this space for us all to get well and I was also feeling very torn between my own needs and the risk of putting out too much negative energy.

Unexpectedly Ive had SO many responses that just responding to you all has made me at least tired of the subject now.
so, changing it....

I think its great that there have been more 'rambling posts' lately. In between my stinking up the place there have been some powerful and revealing stories. I love to learn more about folks here and while we wont always agree on everything we say its rare to be able to exchange so much so safely. So to everyone who is paranoid about talking too much... dont be. I often have this paranoia myself but reading my posts back to myself now, Im glad I took the risk. I have re-read them now and reflected on what is there,seen where I was at the time.

I feel quite worn out now after writing this but its a good kind of worn out. Thanks for listening everyone, maybe NOW I'll sleep better........



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by kevzx81, Feb 14, 2009
Hillbilly- I lost lots of weight in a few weeks of a low dose of Tram and all the symptoms you mention in w/d are in range of what is normal for the randomness of Tram w/d. Love to chat more but I'm truly knackered....

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by FinallyFred, Feb 14, 2009
Introduction - a new conversation, life after tramadol

This post isn't the TRAUMA CENTER tonight. But I was so impressed upon reading all of  the TRAUMA CENTER posts this afternoon by Frankm, Warrior, Dave, KC, Suzi and you, Don'tbelieve.  You guys are an awesome team.  Such care and concern for one another.  That care and concern is what got me through, but this afternoon's posts took things to a whole NEW level.  AMAZING love for one other.  YAY!   And I pray that you are all sleeping right beside your storied cats and dogs right about now.

Crazy old Fred is a night owl.  Deal with it!  

I ventured out again  last night...to   that musty old church basement where Emily says those of us "allergic" to alcohol go... where the coffee is always on but it's also always really bad.  It's what a "buck" buys.  That place.  

Kinda like "this place", except instead of Emily's magic electronic knobs and tubes, there are 20 people sitting around an old table face to face, lousy coffee and all - sharing.  Trying to keep our allergy under control.  Trying to support one another.  And exploring how to improve our spiritual condition so we might not have to drink or use again today.

And it got me thinking.

And all the while I was in the "allergy" meeting (an hour), I kept thinking of THIS place.  I was considering all of the conversation here recently about Kev's questions about  retribution and "forgiveness".  And of breathing out the bad stuff inside us that can make me crazy.  

Cause once we free ourselves from the tram, we are, left ONLY with ourselves.  And the way I figure it for myself, there isn't necessarily a CURE for myself with  a drug like tram.   The BEST I think I can hope for is a daily reprieve...and that based on my spiritual condition.  Which is a lot better than white knuckles.  So let's explore.

KC, you  said, "As for forgiveness, I personally forgive for the benefit of myself.  It just feels so good to “let go” of something that is consuming me."

Page, you talked about it as well when you said,  "hope to have the courage to put my ugly past out for you all to see, in the light of day; I know most of you will understand.  There is so much more to my story.  Mom’s death is just the beginning of the guilt and shame …. "

Exploring "why" we used tramadol or learning how to improve our spiritual condition won't  get us through to the next minute when we are in the dawg days of withdrawing from this lousy chemical.  But from where I am at, figuring out what to do with my anger, fears, broken heart, etc. might not hurt LONG RANGE either.

Whether from that dank church basement, or around this computer machine I think I am s l o w l y getting it.  As some degree of clarity has returned (it's relative of course!) I have got to ask myself about those things the TRAM began to medicate.  Cause while at the beginning, I took the tramadol as DOC prescribed for IT FOR physical  pain control, it wasn't long before I took it

to control the pain inside my heart...

to control my fears that kept me awake at night...

to control resentments that I could not or would not give up.  

And I had found the perfect pain control FOR ALL OF IT...or so it seemed at the time.

And yes, as THAT tram has gone, I begin to feel again.  Begin to laugh again.

BEGIN TO FEEL many other WONDERFUL emotions, like passion, like natural concern of a parent for their son, we get to experience that part of life again as well.

But speaking only for myself, I ALSO begin to fear again...begin to feel the things that break my heart again...begin to harbour resentments again...begin to feel anger again.  We all laughed with KEV, but I can't help but wonder if these were not some of the things KEV, you were feeling the other day?

So tonight ,I  am hoping to start a new conversation.  What are your tricks and tips?   Are there things that work for you to improve your own spiritual condition?  Things that help breathe out the resentments and FEARS and anger we so easily harbour?  

Because if we are called to a new life without this drug, it won't be long before we will be called on to face some old demons TRAM FREE.  And while I don't have any green paint under the sink, Home Depot is just up the block.

Newbies may get a pass.  But you OLD tramadol warriors, what is working for you?  I'd like to know.

Fred

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by FinallyFred, Feb 14, 2009
Kev,  You know everybody here LOVES you.  You will have to just accept it, you are the loveable daringly honest one!

We'll be checking your page for photos!  (just kidding)  Change the subject, sorry!  

Hillbilly . loved ALL your stories about the bath, the marshmellows, flying the hellicopter around inside your house.  I also have a 22 lb. cat..."Miss Kiggy".  

Yes, most of what you describe are NORMAL crazy tram-a-zanny withdrawal symptoms.  Strange cravings for food, sneezing, bumping into walls visual disturbances, watery eyes, and of course, the RANDOM return of symptoms you'd thought you'd never see again.  

From my withdrawal experience, , the random return of symptoms (return of sleeplessness, stabbing pains) won't stick around  long when they do return.  When they return, just take a deep breathe, and marvel AT THE POWER OF THIS TERRIBLE HARMFUL DRUG, consider your investment in kicking it, and ask yourself one question, "do I EVER want to take a drug with such DEEP hooks into me ever again?

Sleep loss is the absolute worst.  I seem to recall that "Warrior" was working while withdrawing from this stuff.  Fortunately, i had a week of myself, or I could never have made it.  If i was loosing more than 3-4 nights sleep, I would seriously consider trying to get a doctor to write me a script for something stronger than Tylenol PMs. that i could take for a week or so.  Life is hared without sleep.  Big problem.  



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by dontbelieve, Feb 14, 2009
yeah...mental..you sound just like my doctors...

After talking with my wife tonight I have realized a few things I did not know....

I have never been addicted to anything to the point of withdrawl...I drank alot when i was younger...alot. walked away from it as soon as i met my wife. Now i will drink only on occasion and at most 2 beers a day....

I have flushed my pain meds before...vicoden and soma...told my doc he was a jackass...and just quit. Took me 3 days and i felt fine...apparently not a common result but didnt have withdrawl near the symptoms i feel now....

when i met my wife i was 100% med free for a year and a half.....it wasnt til i met my wife when i heard/felt a loud painful pop in my neck and i went to see a new doctor and guess what he gave me...vicoden...then norco...then flexiril...and all this time he told me he had no idea what was wrong with me...but he kept giving me pills....

on top of that i have been taking about 25 200mg over the counter motrin...all i heard from docs was how that was going to destroy my liver and stomach...but it made my neck pain tolerable sometimes so it was worth it to me....

my wife finally told me today that sometimes she could tell i was out of it...which i never felt and never thought i was....she confirmed for me today that i wasnt as ok on ultram as i thought i was....wow.

Her parents both have passed....father from cancer at 47 3 years ago...extreme drinker like if it was a sport he was the mvp every year....mother of an anuerism a year ago october...she was 51....her mother lived with us in this house at the time of her death...

Her older sister has 4 kids 16,10,3,2, and she followed in her fathers footsteps....extreme drinker...to the point one day heard her tell her 10yr old that MILK was not a luxury that they could afford right now....next breath asked him to go get her a beer...ohhhh i was mad...she has the shakes when she wakes up every morning and before she does anything for her kids she sits and has 2 beers.....

One of my major realizations today was...she is not going to stop until shes ready....we have been trying to find ways to help her...we even had the 16 yr old living with us because mother and 16yr old daughter could not go a day without a physical fist fight...cps and police finally got involved...Just found out CPS is making it mandatory for her to get help or she will lose her kids. After going through these withdrawls which tbird thinks are all a mental game i can undersand how hard it is going to be for her to go through this...and probably worse...but i think after going through all this i will be able to help her through her struggle....

Sorry TBIRDS....if you believe its mental...you are very misinformed....as far as non narcotic i Dont know the actual chemical make up, however many doctors are now seeing these withdrawls and are beginning to question just that little fact...if indeed it is truely non narcotic...as far as mental...well come on over to my house and i will show you just how mental these meds are...sure to a degree that is correct...however I am positive i have not imagined one sneeze or numb shock that runs through my body...nor have i imagined mentally that i cant sleep or eat anything...normally i am a very nice person and will argue peacefully your point...but you caught me in a bad mood and tired....so to put it bluntly...kick rocks....nobody in here needs negative messages like that...

fred....thanks for the kind words and answers....just need to know i am not going crazy from time to time....my mammoth cat is named " Trouble" and very accuarately so....although i could have named him " Hungry" and it would have fit just as well...

Warrior: I feel your pain...you dont have to thank me at all...Just a thought though...you said your husband cant understand....I have explained to my wonderful wife that is why I write in here...you cant really understand until you go through it...but what i do is let my wife read some of these too so she gets a better idea of what I am going through....and then she can help me and at least have a good idea what to expect....As you get lower in the taper and finally to 0 you will find out how much that support and understanding from the person you love really helps....

Again thank you all for the support..sorry no humor today....but going strong...thanks to this group....

Hillbilly
My favorite quote " COUNTRY DONT MEAN DUMB"....



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by JK90, Feb 14, 2009
Certainly tbirds, it's just overwhelmingly coincidental that EVERY SINGLE PERSON here is experiencing the SAME debilatating physical and mental withdrawals.

I have no experience with other drugs or addictions, but as most of the people here have said, tramadol is much much worse than most other drugs out there. My doc gave it to me because he said it would be less addictive than codiene. Ha, what a lie that was.

I've been through he77 and back the last week, and I'm not going to allow someone else to say it was all in my head and I'm lying.

I'm not going on a rant at you personally, but the current view on this drug by everyone who hasn't been through it.

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by UPSguy, Feb 14, 2009
Greetings all...

Another lurker here who finally reached his final, final, final, final breaking point after being rushed to the hospital a couple days ago for an overdose but I'll explain that later.

Here's the short version of how I became aqainted with the Trauma Doll...

Oddly by choice, I hadn't taken any drug, drank, or even smoked a cigarette until I was 23  but I ended up having a horrible accident (where I almost sliced my hand off literally with sheet metal) that required a drawn out nerve surgery and a long rehab. That's when I was introduced to Miss Percocet and thus my on & off love affair with pain killers. I actually discovered Ultram or vice versa quite by accident. I called my doctor hysterical a couple hours after taking my last perc (after a months' supply) and I said you need to prescribe me something else NOW !!!  I was very naive back then. I didn't know anything about addiction or withdrawal until that point. The doctor told my mom that this new drug "Ultram" would help with the perc withdrawal and other pain and IT'S NOT ADDICTIVE so I shouldn't have any problems. To my doctors credit, one prescription of trams worked to ween me off the percs and that was that for a couple years until...

My best friends' dad got a prescription for 100 Percocet 10 mg a month and was looking to sell em' for cheap. My brain started to itch and talked myself into buying a bunch a percs every month for weekend consumption under the guise of being responsible (this went good for a few years actually) until my best friends' dad got wise to high street prices and his demands were no longer in my desired price range.

Unfortunately at the same time around this point, I developed a really painful shoulder condition (that I'm finally getting surgery for in April) and got diagnosed with gout. I also get kidney stones every now and then. I've always worked hard physical jobs my entire life like a mover, framing houses, tree service, and now UPS so my body isn't in the greatest shape anymore. I wanted some pain relief but I knew after taking percs for more than two weeks straight, I would get addicted. I was looking for something I could take for a long period of time with no addictive properties... DING! DING! DING! We have a winner, folks. Ultram!!! I remembered my brief encounter with the stuff years ago. So like an idiot I decided to become my own doctor and prescribe myself Tramadol online. I was afraid of getting ripped off and/or in trouble with the law for ordering meds w/o a person to person prescription. Once I got the balls up and ordered the first time, I was hooked. Everything was great for a couple months until my tolerance spiked and I realized like many of you did that Tramadol is indeed addictive and very much in control of my life. Too late, I was already chasing the cheese.

The first two or three withdrawals I had, I thought I was just sick with a bad cold or something. I didn't realize it was the Tramadol making me sick until I was already at a 400 mg a day habit and that was two years ago. Since then, I've tried to go cold turkey two or three times but failed. I even went to the hospital and asked for assistance and they snickered... "Tramadol is not hard to come off of..." and just prescribed me a couple 5mg. Xanax for the anxiety and sent me on my way. I kid you not. The second time on my own, I made it to 5 days and just crumbled. I can deal with the harsh body aches somewhat but that deep bone pain plus the insomnia plus the restless legs is unbearable. I found myself strolling aimlessly around my neighborhood like a vampire at 3 A.M because I couldn't be still for more than a minute. It's just so hard when you have a job to boot, always taking days off and leaving early due to your "mysterious sickness" and then to add insult to injury, a good portion of your earnings goes to buying more pills! You don't realize but your funding your own demise!  I actually lost the job I had prior to my current one mostly because of my addiction. I've also had to work a few days while in withdrawal and it's by far the worst experience one can have trying to pretend everything is cool when you're dying inside.

My marriage is also under strain although I don't keep anything from my wife. She gets frustrated with my addiction and what it does to me mentally, physically, and sexually (guys, you might know about this one), but thankfully she's committed to help me through it. She's been through her own struggles with Vicodin so she knows the drill. I try to keep a sense of humor about it when I can but it's getting harder. On day 1 of my withdrawals, if I think of anything having to do with sex, I'll sneeze three times. That's funny I guess.

So fast forward to yesterday... I've been trying to taper down half-*** until my shoulder surgery in April because I'll be taking 2 months off from work to rehabilitate myself and this will be the perfect time to kick my Tramadol habit. Sometimes the Trams convince my brain to talk myself into thinking since I had an extra bad day at work it's okay to pop more trams than usual, you know, get that numbing feeling back again. So I had one of those days a few back. I knew I took alot (30 50mgs. in 24hrs maybe) but I think I must have lost count of what I took because all I remember was talking to my mom on the phone and all of of a sudden I couldn't speak. It was like my mouth was paralyzed. I immediately got off the phone and tried to get it together. I tried to sit up and focus on the TV. I felt like I couldn't stay conscious for much longer so I got up and tried to move around and that only made it worse. I went to the bathroom and tried to throw up a few times. The last time I did and there was blood in the puke so I freaked out even more. The panic attack made it 10X worse. My heart felt like it was going to explode. I took my tempature and it was so low. I tried to get into a burning hot shower but it still felt cold. The last thing I wanted to do was to call 911 and open that can of worms but I put aside my pride and thought better safe than sorry. 30 minutes later after telling more than 3 people that I wasn't intentionally trying to "hurt myself" I was laying on a hospital bed with an EKG machine monitoring my heart function. 2 hours after that I was physically fine but mentally defeated and completely disgusted with myself that I let this happen.

The silver lining here is that I'm 500X more serious than ever to break this hold that Tramadol has on my person. I'm beyond pissed off. No more excuses, No more ********. I'm scheduled to get a shoulder surgery in April with a minimum 2 months off for rehab so I'm currently working on seriously tapering down so I can give it my best when the time comes.

...So for the last few months up until right now I've been reading all your touching stories for company and strength and copying down the Thomas recipe and stockpiling weapons for the big battle to come in April. You know not how much your stories have comforted me. Now that I've outed myself as a fellow addict, I'll try and check back more with my progress and hopefully one day I can be somebody with a success story that can motivate others.

Stay in the fight !



-D



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by KC67, Feb 14, 2009
Day 6 – Cold Turkey – Feb. 14, 2009

Today I am struggling.  No energy.  Bluesy and sad.   Poor sleep last night.  I am little disappointed because I had such a great night’s sleep the night before.  But then again, thank goodness I know these withdrawals are random – and that sleep comes and goes - and had I NOT known this, I would already be taking the Trams again.

I will forge forward and make it to Day 20, Day 30, Day 45….and beyond.  One day, one minute at a time.

Fred, you pose an interesting topic.  And a very thought-provoking one I might add.  You said (and I quote), “Exploring "why" we used tramadol or learning how to improve our spiritual condition won't  get us through to the next minute when we are in the dawg days of withdrawing from this lousy chemical.  But from where I am at, figuring out what to do with my anger, fears, broken heart, etc. might not hurt LONG RANGE either."

FRED, This is a topic that will help us better understand our need and our fear of  FEELING things that we would rather NOT feel.  This is going to get pretty deep.  I would like to ask that everyone just be “open” to everyone else’s responses and beliefs.  We may not agree with one another’s coping mechanisms, but this journal is a place of un-conditional support and love and I believe we can learn something from everyone as to how each of us DEALS with our need to NUMB our pain – whether it is physical pain, or pain from past/present circumstances.  So let us all embrace how each one of us deals with the #@*% in our lives.  The #@*% that drives us to want to pop a pill, drink a bottle, eat a mountain of food, do something destructive -  so we don’t have to FEEL to FEEL better.  

I am going to think on this today and perhaps write later…perhaps not….I may just read and take it all in later on today.

((Hillbilly – DontBelieve)) – I’m with ya today.  I am pretty sure we are about the same number of days off this Trama-garbage and we both feel kind of yucky today.  I’m sorry we both are having a bit of a setback – but that’s ALL it is – a setback.  Tomorrow could be completely different.  Heck, in another hour it could be completely different.   Although I find you very funny and a great writer, please don’t feel badly when you don’t feel like being funny.  We are all going to have these melancholy/reflective days where we just need to open up and vent.  It’s our bodies allowing us to feel and deal again.  I have enjoyed and benefitted from all of your posts and am sending virtual hugs and good thoughts your way.

In fact that goes for EVERYONE on this journal.  I wish we could all meet for coffee and just sit, talk, share, and encourage each other.  I consider you all friends.

Sincerely with hope and love,
KC


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by KC67, Feb 14, 2009
Dear UPSguy,
Sorry, I posted before I had a chance to read your post.
Welcome!  You have found the right place to get support and the freedom to tell your story.

I think you are lucky to be alive right now and I think you have a solid plan for getting off of these painkiller/tri-cyclic antidepressant pills that they call Ultram or Tramadol.  

I did the same thing as you...I lurked and lurked for weeks and read everyone's story until I mustered up the courage to jump off the Tram-o-train.  It's hard, but if you are prepared for battle (both mentally and physically), you can do it!

My best to you!
KC

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by dontbelieve, Feb 14, 2009
aimless ramblings from a tired mind.....

Holy mother of pearl when those restless limbs come back they come back strong....my arms and my legs...still havent been able to sleep...and here it is valentines day...

I found a picture i drew at work while bored one day while i was first dating my wife....little background on that...the first night me and my wife went out we ended up then next morning literally wwf style wrestling on her front lawn and i knew i had found the one....unfortunately there is a little tree in the front yard and during our wrestling i managed to hit her head on that tree and damn near knock her out....we laugh about...i tell her i had to knock some sense into her and she says i obviously knocked sense out of her because she married me...lol..

anyway i found this picture and another one i drew both on the paint program standard on any computer....both are now in my profile so you can really visualize this....so i printed mutliple copies of these two pictures and pasted them all over the house....neither one of us are planning any major normal valentines day stuff today....normally i make a big deal out of all of these days...and birthdays or just any occassion to show her shes the best....i feel terrrible for not having the strength to be able to do something for her today...

BUT i think i just made up my mind....I WILL NOT LET ULTRAM STEAL VALENTINES DAY!!!!

welcome UPS: wow...you are very lucky to be here at all....but you are and thats great. you will have nothing but support in here from alot of great like minded folks.


everyone else....stay strong...be mighty and happy valentines day....

Hillbilly

I have to do something!!! ok rambling over...gotta go...

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by FinallyFred, Feb 14, 2009
Hillbilly,  Nice art work at your site.  Reminds me of the art I do with "stick figures"  Never pretty, but I generally convey the message.  How fun!  Wrestling on the front lawn.  But at my age, if I took my wife out on the front lawn and began wrestling with her, I'm fairly certain that neither of us would be getting up any time soon.  And I can only guess that the mail man would discover our bodies about noon on Monday.

UPS guys,  Welcome to "the wonderful world of support while doing the hardest thing in your life"   website.  Yes (wink wink) I do know about the side affects of the "tramua doll" (also nice) on a guys sexuality.  Lovely topic for Valentine's Day.  But from what I can gather, tramadol seems to flat line the sexuality of both genders.  An equal gender offender this tram is.  But I'm going to stop abrupty at this point, least I get zapped and go POOF.

Ok, I just have to interject...I am looking out my window and two squirrels are chasing one another all over our back yard.  Up trees, down and along the fence. Simple squirrel fun.  They made me laugh.  Okay, now where was I?

KC, you continue to amaze with wisdom beyond your post tram-a-years.  " thank goodness I know these withdrawals are random – and that sleep comes and goes - and had I NOT known this, I would already be taking the Trams again".

Yup Yup Yup.  Knowledge is power.  And for the record, these WITHDRAWAL symptoms are physical.  Either that or the tram does a great impersonation job of "physical" stomache indigestion, stabbing pains, fevers, chills, ETC. as it leaves our bodies.  That's it, the great impersonator TRAM came to each of us and made us believe those "mental" symptoms were ACTUALLY  physical symptoms.   Wow.

I have got some real LIFE stuff to do today, but you guys talk amoungst yourselves and I'll check back later this weekend.

With high esteem and great admiration for each one of you guys.

Fred



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by EmilyPost, Feb 14, 2009
I've reported tbirds for abuse and deleted the message.

We have a ZTTP = zero troll tolerance policy here ...



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by KC67, Feb 14, 2009
End of Day 6 - Cold Turkey - Feb. 14, 2009

Just a quick message to say that I am really struggling today.  I have an all-over achey feeling, slept little last night, more sneezing, and a pain in my gut (as Emily described in a previous post, like someone sucker-punched me REALLY hard).  I was so happy yesterday and felt happy and energetic.  It is rather discouraging to feel so opposite today.

Today is drastically different from yesterday.  I have felt depressed and at times, anxious the entire day.  I wish it WASN'T Valentines Day because my husband doesn't deserve to suffer because of me.  The good thing is that is he is completely aware of what I am going through and I told him that it could take up to 45 days for me to feel normal again.  I am clinging to the statement that Emily made in a previous post that ,"Day 22 was magic!".  

Since I am only on Day 6, I expected to experience the ups and downs of the random withdrawals, but there was a small part of me that was hoping that I would BEAT it sooner.  Not so.

I still have a positive attitude and know I will BEAT the Tramadol-curse, but today is a tough day for me (both physically and emotionally) and I am glad that it is almost 8pm EST - because that means that I only have a few more hours to go before I TRY (and I hoping with all my hope) to sleep at least 6 hours.  

When tomorrow comes and IF I have to report that I got no sleep, I am prepared for that as well.   With Tramadol withdrawal it is ONE DAY AT A TIME - and no day is a guarantee of what the previous day held.

It is truly a battle and today my body is wounded and needs to withdraw and try to rest.

Blessings to you all for your continued support!

KC67


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by suzipen, Feb 14, 2009
hi guys, I havent made it to all the new posts, but did I miss something?  

Who in the heck is mental and tbird?

I know I can get confused easily sometimes..but did something happen while I was out??

suzi

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by emergee, Feb 14, 2009
suzi,  it was another docklc.

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by FinallyFred, Feb 15, 2009
Suzi, yup another docklc or damntram visted us Saturday while you were away.  You didn't miss anything.  

Ramblings for KC:

KC, I hope you are sleeping as soundly as a baby as I write this.    If you are restless and uncomfortable, I hope you will find this and read something you can relate to.

God didn't bring you this far to allow you to perish.  

When I think of how things often go in my life, it  seems that there is often a great divide between entering into the promise and where I stood when I figured the journey was worth making at the start.  You may not find me in church this morning, but I know something about the struggles of the Jewish people in the wilderness.  Jewish history records the promise given to Moses that he would see the promised land.  I am told once that the journey from Egypt to the promised land was 40 days.  But it took the children of Israel 40 years to enter the land.

I'm a little fuzzy here on whether HE actually made it into the promised land himself,  but I know that he wandered with his "gang" for a long time in the desert before seeing it...before at least others made it in. I'm hoping that a nice Jewish addict can clarify some of my confusion here, but you get the point though.

I am a worrier myself.  I tend to freak out when I can't get where I want to be as soon as I think I ought to be there.  

Work for me is a good example.  I like being on top of things.  I HAVE been on top of things.  And while there are days when I HOPE to get there again, I tend to wallow around in the desert of being behind far too long.  

I generally feel that I am SO far behind, that I could work 24/7 and still not be caught up.  I can "vision" being caught up, but day after day I feel like I am falling further and further behind with my case load.  My "wilderness" at work, is that time I loose focus, I get down on myself, I complain about how far behind I am at work.  Not productive.

But I try to keep focused on the POSSIBILITY that I might actually get caught up at work.  I keep doing the things that I know other successful people do, who do GET caught up.  And one day, when I least expect it, I AM caught up.  Crazy but it has been true so many times for me.

My wife baked me a beautiful "heart shaped" cake Saturday.  (Sorry Emily)  I don't do a great deal of baking myself, but I have observed that unlike say, making soup, you have GOT to follow the directions in baking to have it come out right.  And if you follow the directions, add the right number of eggs, the correct measure of flour, etc.,..a cake is born.  Perfectly formed.  No amount of worry or concern will change the facxt that if one follows the directions, a cake WILL be born.

But I digress.  I have been practicing law more than 20 years.  What I have found is that being successful is a great deal like baking a cake.  Right ingredients = success.  So I keep interviewing clients even when I don't feel like it, writing briefs when I would rather be doing something else, returning phone messages when I don't feel like being pleasant, and doing whatever the next right thing is to do.

And if I keep doing these things - then one night, after I have checked my last voice message, talked to my last client, turned off my (work) computer and reviewed whatever case is coming up the next day, it dawns on me...I was actually caught up.  SURPRISES do not need to be BAD surprises.  

The crazy thing is...it usually comes as a SURPRISE to me, that I had actually arrived at "caught up".  While I was focused on doing the next right things, yes, maybe scared and worried to death, while I felt just as far behind as the week before...

I had made it to "caught up".  The cake was born.  Freedom from tramadol  won.

I am not presumptious enough to think that God is trying to teach us a lesson while we withdraw from the trams.  But there does seem to be some sort of wilderness that we each must cross before getting to the land of symptom free.

I know that this is a long and windy story KC, but  I am 100% certain that

as lousy as you felt Saturday...

as badly as you hurt.

as far from the promised land ( or "caught up" or "cake") as you might feel right now,

if you just keep measuring the flour,

and cracking eggs,

there is a day coming real soon

when you will be thinking about somethingelse -  far more important than tramadol,

And you will REALIZE - you had made it to the promised land of freedom from this lousy drug.

It will sneak up on you that suddenly, you will be free.  That's how it happend to me.

I tend to future trip. (not a good thing)  

Left to my own devices, I start thinking that any surprises in MY future will be bad surprises.

I tend to extrapolate and my stinking thoughts go something like this:

Today I feel like ****.  I will probably feel MORE like more **** tomorrow.

When that happens,

my loved one's will hate me.

I'll loose my sphere of influence,

I will loose my job.

And I'll be living on a street somewhere with my cats left without a home.

And then I'll die there.

(you MAY laugh, but this is where my stinking thoughts can lead me if I let them)  

Maybe I am the only person on the planet who future trips like this, but somehow, I don't think so.

But whenever I allow myself to loose sight of the prize and give in to that sort of thinking I am doomed.

Recognize that not all surprises are bad.  

Tomorrow CAN have a happy ending.

Tomorrow can be different than today.  

Stay focused on the promise of freedom from this drug.

Cause NEITHER God, nor Emily, nor Fred, nor Suzi, nor emgergee, nor Frankm nor any # OF other the people here brought you into the wilderness to die a SLOW painful death.  

Passage isn't always easy, but if you keep doing what others have done who have beaten this terrible addiction, you will make it.

And when you arrive at freedom, you will probably stay up to all hours of the night like me, writing words of encouragement to others who are where you are right now - cause you will have a debt of gratitude that has no measure.

At least I do.

Be of strong courage, EVERYONE.  Cause God didn't bring any of you this far to allow you to perish

Fred

  

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by dontbelieve, Feb 15, 2009
so i finally got some sleep again today and woke up feeling good....

looking forward to the Daytona 500 tomorrow, wasnt really sure i was going to be excited about it but i am...

however big test for me and my commitment to stop taking meds tomorrow....going to dinner for dad/my birthdays tomorrow and alot of temptaions around there....but i think ill be ok...

hey i have been seeing alot of posts about snow...and damn i envy youse guys....I have rain here.
I LOVE snow....where i grew up it snowed hard every year and where i live now i dont believe it ever has....hate that.
I used to love to just sit on the porch and watch the snow fall...nice hot cup of coffee...maybe a blanket and a cute girl didnt hurt....but it was peaceful and relaxing...

Quick snow story...

I got married in Yosemite....in december...the main reason being i love yosemite..but it was snow season there...we rented 5 houses one for the bride and her bridesmaids one for the groom and my guys to get ready at but the rest so family could stay the 2 nights with us up in yosemite...It did snow at the cabins but no snow on the valley floor...
My wife worked for enterprise car rental corporate and got great deals on 2 brand new suburbans for the wedding.
so the day of the wedding...we are doing picutres the two houses are maybe 1000yrds from eachother wifes and mine...so our photographer who lives in the snow 50% of the year was going back and forth from the two houses. as the photographer left my house to go to my wifes my brother and a couple of others said man hes driving way too fast for these roads...so i tell them "relax he lives in the snow i am sure he will be fine"....and then we heard a loud crash....thats right our photographer plowed into one of the brand new suburbans...destroyed it...would not drive...the actual wedding site was 16 miles from the cabins and we needed vehicles with 4 wheel drive to get to the wedding....luckily i had decided to leave my truck at home...and we brought our explorer up there...otherwise we would have had a bunch of hillbillies showing up in the back of my truck to my wedding...I thought my wife was going to hit the roof...but no..she didnt even flinch...she actually laughed about it...until she realized her job was to go after people who damaged vehicles and get the claims squared away...to make it worse the other person who did her job in that office also used the same wedding photographer 3 month prior...to make a long story short my wife had to handle the claims adjustment for her wedding photographer who ran into a car she was renting for her wedding....

my wife hates the snow...lol

just a little story....

Hope everyone is well today....and have a good tomorrow....

Hillbilly

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by kevzx81, Feb 15, 2009
KC- I have the same problem....fear,anger and a broken heart. And I totally agree on everything you say about openly sharing. I'm not going to be able to get through this on my own. For the past couple of years I've felt like life itself has been bullying me. No sooner do I get back up and it knocks me down again. I need all the help I can get; And theres none where I am at home right now. No family,no patrner,no kids. My friends do what they can but they cant print money or banish my pain.
Truth is its usually me that has be the calm centre in my world and when I cant be I hide up. I considered talking to my friends about docs car first but KNEW they would all say "go for it". They know whats been going on and they're not happy with doc either. But they wont challenge my opinion strongly and I need to hear the arguments before I engage my sociopath persona and any number of other mad strategies I may come up with. I dont want to bring this heavy emotional stuff into my social life either and that means the only other place I have is here.

I cant even count the number of times I've started calmy typing into this box and ended up crying.Or the number of times I've started out crying and ended up calmer. I'm at the point now where I couldnt really discuss my whole situation face to face with anyone because I know I could never get all the words out. (yes I know, thats saying something for mr flappy mouth here).I'd just break down. over and over and over.. anger and grief...never time to recover from one hurt before the next one strikes. Forget trying to assimilate even half of it. Just tyring to keep bread on the table. I feel a terrible weariness that goes so deep.

Fred- Yes I really do fear I will die in my wilderness. You talk of dark thoughts and this can touch upon taboos of many kinds. In the spirit of your own openness I'll give you an example. I didnt want to paint docs car, I wanted to gaze deeply into his eyes as I  choked the life out of him, As his children and wife watched.That was my dark thought Fred. And as I stood outside his house I knew I had that choice.FELT it. WITHIN MY POWER. I knew I would never do it. Never in a million years. My conscience, my inner self could not survive the self contradiction. But that was my thought.That was what I wanted most in the whole world at that moment. I dont scare easily but thats an earthshaker for me.And I dont think its healthy if I cant somehow share this stuff,somehow, somewhere. Desperation,fear, anxiety,panic. The four horseman of  crash and burn are right outside my door. I've met these 4 together before.many times. Usually alone. But never as depleted as I am now. I know that I'm right to be scared.
Pain and sleeplessness through pain are eroding me. The cold is a big factor. Winters vary.

I like spiders(bear with me) I feel a real empathy for them.Hated by so many of us yet disposing of those germy flies so nicely. I have a spider living in my kitchen. Waiting (hoping?) that a fly will happen by. Good fortune. Does spider know that I live on the 5th floor and very few flies make it up here? And NONE in the winter? All spider can do is rest his energy,wait in hope. He doesnt move much any more, its been a while. I'm going to catch some tiny bugs and see if I cant intervene. People dont like spiders because they're ugly, quick, poisonous etc. But sitting in that tiny web,waiting for a reprieve that may never come, he doesnt look ugly or poisonous. He looks just like me. Fear of death is the greatest leveller. I hope spider doesnt know what despair is.


This room is filling up so fast I'd need to watch all day to keep up.I cant respond to even half of what I'd like to.
One small pill. One global sh*tstorm. One tiny recovery room. Is it me or are the walls bulging?

Emily- I can only guess whats going through your mind as you see the traffic rising.(' what have I done!' maybe..lol). we could easily ' outbreed'  a warren of rabbits on viagara in a couple more months!!








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by emergee, Feb 15, 2009
i think we can make this official.    day 6 *****.  it did for me.  and the terrilbe thing about it is that day 5 was like the new life dawning.  the whole thing actually seemed pretty much over,  the worst  of it anyway.  then day 6.  after day 6 you realize recovery is not a straight line.

i have the little relapses of the rls feeling.  not full on rls ,  just the crawling feeling,  the feeling that you cannot come to a complete halt,  and rest.  i quit nov 28,  so it will be 3 months soon.

i am trying to taper benzos.  it certainly is tricky.  i cut back and sleep fine.  think i am on my way ,  and then there is a rebound later.   the next night i can't sleep.

emily,  i wouldn't mind some details about what it is like to taper.  do you get anxiety? sleeplessness ?  or what?  how fast is the taper?  from what dosage to what in what amount of time?


kev,   all i can say,  is i know what you are talking about.


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by suzipen, Feb 15, 2009
Hello everyone,
I am with Kev....... this room is so busy, I dont feel like I can respond like I want to.  BUT, its great that people are finding us!  As we are in all different stages of recovery or w/d, its nice just reading everyones story. I would love it if we could all meet for coffee (KC). That would be really interesting I bet.

Fred, your recent post really got me thinking.
O-k, I have been off tram for 87 days (yee-haw!) :)  However, I am still picking up the pieces of my tramadisaster.
(hey, I made a word,Fred!) That is what the last 5 years have been.       A total disaster!
I keep waiting for something to happen.                  For my life to just magically reorganize itself.  
Pre-tram I know I was a pretty organized and efficient person.
I was committed to my health, such as eating good, and working out regularly.
I was committed to being a good mom, and wife.
Well, heres a short summary of my life now.
My house is a mess all the time. Clutter everywhere.........I get overwhelmed not knowing where to start.
I am carrying around an extra 15 pounds STILL!
My car is a mess........and it goes on and on..............

Now, I know those things sound trivial in the big scope of life.  BUT in order to be the best I can be, I need to have these things resolved.  Why dont I just do them, then??
I could just clean and organize my home,
I could start working out again, and stick to it, and eat better, as I know HOW to do that,
I could clean my car out, and keep it that way.
So, WHY cant I just do these things?

Fred, you say we should do what other successful people do and you will get caught up.
Well, that is my goal, from today on. Because, I know successful people are organized, and good time managers.

I want to bake a "cake". And I KNOW what I need to do for it come out perfectly.I need to change what I am doing, and the change will come.  Isnt the definition of insanity  to keep doing the same things, and expecting a different outcome?
Or something like that? Well, that has been me lately. Yep, insane!! LOL!

Anyway, I hope I am making sense. I know I tend to start rambling, and what I want to say may not come out the way I intend. I know, most of you have a WONDERFUL way with words. I tend to write just like I talk.
Actually, Fred, your post made me get up and exercise, and start a plan to de-clutter my house.
Thats a good thing!    Its a start.
So, in conclusion, at almost 3 months clean of tramadol, I am finally going to take my life back!
Now, all you newbies, PLEASE dont think it will take you that long. We are all different, and some may get this realization a lot sooner. And some dont let their lives get this messy either. But, I did.

THANK YOU FRED!

I love your stories Hillbilly. I ,agree with your wife, I HATE snow. Why I live in Ohio, I will never be able to explain.
My heart is in southern california, and always will be. I have family there, so maybe one day.............
Oh yea, your picturs are great!!

The randomness is crazy KC. I know . But, at least you KNOW thats normal.  I feel so bad for the millions (yes, I believe it is millions) out there who DONT know this, and they think they are most certainly going totally bonkers. BTW, I love reading your posts.

UPS-WELCOME!  I have to agree, you are lucky to be alive, and I am so happy you found us. Keep posting..........

Kev, your post brought tears to my eyes. You showed us a side you had not before. I think its important for all of us to be as honest as you have. I have so much ,more I want to say, however, life is calling me right now. (as in kids!!)
BIG hug to you. (if you'll take it) :) I agree with Fred, you are just going to have to accept the fact that we love ya here!

(((emergee)))- I miss you!! message me or something!!

Take care everyone,
love,suzi







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by suzipen, Feb 15, 2009
emergee,
I was posting at the same time you were, so I missed yours.
Good to hear from you.
What benzo are you tapering??  I need to start off ativan , but am scared to death.

I will check back later with you. Gotta feed my family.
love,suzi

766333_tn?1234918196
by AnonGuy2, Feb 15, 2009
EmilyPost & Fred among others ---

I feel like I know each of you personally as I too have read every one of your posts over many hours of sitting here at my desk in the dark pits of tramadol withdrawal...

I have been posting on a drugs.com board about my battles with tramadol but this place seems to have a little more activity. This place also has some sincerely honest and supportive people (again: EmilyPost & Fred among others) as well.

I will now give you a link to look at all of my posts over the last 3 days but....

BEFORE I DO let me say I will copy/paste my first and then most recent post there below the link.

Here's the link: http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-conditions/tramadol-addiction-withdrawal-37722-3.html#post225391
(you can follow my posts below that initial one and onto the next page too)

Here's a copy/paste of that first post:

Hello everyone,

I am yet another anonymous person who has stumbled upon this forum via searching Google for "tramadol addiction" and I have a story to tell.

Where to start?

Well I'm nearly 30 years old, live on my own, and have no wife, kids, nor even a girlfriend at the moment. And thank god to that, due to what I'm going through, but more ont hat later. I have a college degree and have a very respectable job with a salary of around $50,000. Without a wife or kids, I live pretty comfortably with that income.

I made it to the age of 18 and into my first semester of college before I even drank a drop of alcohol in my life. I made it to 19 before trying any drug in my life. A bad breakup with a girlfriend threw me into my first depression in life and subsequently started my life of drugs.

At 19, the first drug I did was ecstasy. I loved it and still consider it the best high of any drug out there. I immediately started using it every weekend for a couple years and experimented with tons of other drugs, too. I thought, "If ecstasy is so great, I wonder what other fun things are out there!?" So throughout college I ended up doing every drug in the book, even research chemicals which 99% of the world has never heard of. I've owned nitrous tanks, sold pounds of weed, done boatloads of cocaine, and so on. I have basically done everything out there and let's just leave it at that.

The only drugs I ever really thoroughly enjoyed to the point of doing them 100's of times were stimulants like ecstasy and cocaine. But did I ever find any of them addicting? Nope, not at all. And of all the pharmaceuticals in the world, the single only one I have ever found even remotely addicting is Tramadol. I've taken 100's of valium, xanax, klonopin (and other benzos) along with hydros, oxys, and every other abusable prescription med on the planet. But Tramadol remains the single only substance which I've ever found addicting and, no, I'm not kidding or exaggerating one bit. Pure meth or aka Ice? I used the ******** out of it smoking it 6x a day for 6 months and then I ran out. I never even cared enough to find it again and didn't suffer withdrawals at all.

Tramadol... Where should I start? Well I began to enjoy ordering 100's of pills of dozens of different pharmaceuticals over the internet via international pharmacies back around 2002. What was the most fun out of all of them? Tramadol. And so it began...

It got to the point where I haven't done any single drug in the last 4 years except tramadol. I kid you not! I have only drank alcohol maybe 5 times in the last 4 years and I have not consumed a single other presciption or illegal drug except tramadol. Although I'm proud as hell in myself for never becoming addicted to anything else, I hate myself for ever discovering this ********.

Right away from day 1 of experimenting with tramadol I realized that 50-100mg did absolutely nothing. 200mg, or 4 50mg pills, is what I always took. For the first year or two, I would never take it unless I was going to work. So 5 days a week I would take the stuff and enjoy it but my days off I would do fine without it. It made me enjoy going into work. I would take my 200mg right before I jumped in the shower 45 minutes before I had to be at work. By the time I got there, I was superman. I could deal with anyone and anything and enjoyed my time.

After a couple years I left that job to finish up my degree. I also subsequently stopped taking tramadol though I still had a couple 100 tabs left. I didn't care-- No withdrawals at all. I tried taking it some time later after my degree a couple times and I literally just hated the way it felt and I really honestly couldn't believe how I ever enjoyed it. Well, that sure didn't last...

After my degree and my new job, I began to get bored with the fact I was no longer going to parties or enjoying anything that made me feel "high". I tried taking it again with what I had. I loved it! Within a couple weeks I ran out of the 100-200 tabs I had and already had more being delivered. At that point, I even began taking it on days I was off-- And I still loved it! It would give me energy, boost my confidence/attitude, etc. I was taking 3-5 tablets twice a day at that point. Then, after about 2 years, I started needing more so I started taking 4-6 tablets 3 times a day! That's where I've been at now for the last year.

I'd continually think to myself how I was wasting my money on this ******** and I couldn't keep buying and taking it forever. What if I had a wife or kids, which I intend on soon, and they find out? What if I'm spending the money on more tramadol instead of buying diapers? It really started to **** me off thinking about this stuff. So I wanted to quit but just couldn't try yet.

Well a month or two ago I ended up running out for about 2-3 days before I got my next shipment in the mail. I was an absolute wreck during that time.

Here I am in the same situation. Only this time, I really want to throw away my next shipment when it comes. I haven't had tramadol now for 36 hours and I am a w-r-e-c-k!

Just like before, I have bad withdrawals. I have essentially no energy. I don't feel comfortable no matter how I'm sitting or lying down for more than 2 minutes. My limbs ache like, my head pounds!

I have been taking tylenol, ibuprofen, and/or aspirin to get rid of the headaches. It doesn't really help at all, but I take it anyway. I bought a bottle of No-Doz for caffeine to help since I don't like drinking coffee. It doesn't really help either. It makes me mentally alert and feel like I have energy but physically I have absolutely none no matter what. I even had to leave work early with diahrea and feeling like absolute ********. No matter what I try or do, nothing helps.

Last night I couldn't sleep for ******** just like last time I went without. I want to toss or turn every 5 seconds, no joke. No position feels comfortable and sleep is near impossible.

BUT--- I do have one thing going for me. I know that no matter how rough it is, eventually it will subside. Will it be 5 days? 10 days? 14 days? 1 month? I am not sure but I know it can't be any longer than that. That faith is getting me by, that's for sure.

I will prevail, no matter what! More tramadol could show up at my door via the mail any day now but guess what? I do NOT CARE. I will NOT TAKE IT. I WILL FLUSH IT! NO, I am not kidding! The way I feel *****, sure, but it will be over in days and I will be back to normal. This I know! To everyone else out there, hang in there. Remind yourself no matter how bad it is, that it won't last forever. You must be more powerful than your addiction. I know I am more powerful and this will not beat me. I will never, ever, take this ******** again no matter what.

Tomorrow I can only feel better. It will only be maybe 5% better, sure, but it will be better. With each passing day I will be better, and so will everyone else going through this.



****************************************************************************
****************************************************************************
HERE'S A COPY/PASTE OF MY MOST RECENT POST THERE:
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****************************************************************************

MaisieC & Shade Tree ---

Thanks for the continued support.

Mentally I keep feeling great. It's the physical ******** that beats me up. I don't mean feeling "sick" though. Let me explain a little better...

I went to Walgreens to get a list of things I read about to help: Hylands Restful Legs, 5-HTP, L-Tryosine, B-12, L-Theanine, B-Complex, Saint Johns Wart, GABA, Vitamin D-3, and Insitol. They didn't have the L-Tyrosine, L-Theanine, GABA, Vitamin D-3, or Insitol so I couldn't get those but I got the rest. The only one I've ever taken before is 5-HTP which I used to use 6-8 years ago to boost my seratonin levels because of all the ecstasy I used to do back then.

But anyway, back to my story of this mental/physical conflict with how I feel....

So I was feeling great mentally and physically I felt a lot better than yesterday. I took a long, hot shower and immediately got dressed and left to Walgreens. From the moment I got out of my car I started to feel extremely light-headed again and physically I just wanted to collapse. I walked in, grabbed a hand basket for my things with my list of those products in my other hand. I found some of them right away but the others they had and I bought I had to get help finding from an employee. It took forever for them to come out and help me after they said they would.

I bought my stuff and I'm in my car driving home when a family member calls and asks if I'm feeling better and wanting to know if I still wanted to run a quick errand with them to get out of my apartment for a minute (I had called them earlier telling them I'd like to run to the store with them before I decided to go to Walgreens). I said sure and to meet me at my apartment in a few minutes.

As soon as I got home and before they showed up I started to think, "oh no, I just feel like a retarded zombie right now who will run into things and maybe this isn't a good idea." Nonetheless, they came and I jumped in.

While with them I couldn't stop yawning, I wanted to lay down, I felt light headed, and again I felt like I could collapse at any moment. I was able to keep myself together for the 15 minutes we were in the store. They offered to stop and grab me a burger but I said that solid food no longer sounded all that great. I really, really, really just felt like retarded zombie with the IQ of 5 who hadn't slept in years. Physically, that's how unbelievably exhausted I felt. It was very difficult just to keep my eyes opened.

I thought that once I got home I would immediately get undressed, lay down in bed, and get some sleep. Nope! After 5 seconds of laying down, physically I felt pretty darn good again. I decided I'd head to the computer and check this thread which I've now done and am replying to.

I know some withdrawal symptoms can come and go but I don't think this physical thing is just a timing coincidence with being out in public. I really think it has to do with there being too much going on around me for me to think about, process, and react to that being out in public is what is causing me to feel light headed, exhausted, and about to collapse. It was the same thing at work yesterday where I somehow managed 4 hours like that.

So here I am still feeling mentally 100% fine and physically much better than 15 minutes ago but still not 100%. I don't feel tired anymore, I'm not yawning, and I only feel like 1/4th as light headed.

So mentally I haven't went through any depression or anything. But when I start to get the physical symptoms kicking in while out in public, mentally I start to worry that this withdrawal will never end.

Being out in public just scares the ******** out of me because I simply cannot deal with all that ******** going on around me. At times I've thought this must be what it's like to have the brain of a 2 year old. Mentally I can still put thoughts into speech completely fine and appear normal in voice tone and choice of words but physically my body just can't keep up with everything.

These last 3 days it's like minutes seem to last for much longer yet with each passing hour it feels like time is just flying by.

I am extremely thankful that mentally I feel fine and I want my body to be able to keep up but it simply cannot.

I never feel hurt or in pain physically but I just simply feel stupid, exhausted, and I just want to collapse when I'm out in public.

Every respectable person's experience who has went through this that I've read about says the worst of the worst days are the first 3-4 days.

I can deal with a LOT of physical and mental withdrawal symptoms but one thing I cannot deal with is feeling like I'm going to pass out and/or collapse. I am keeping myself extremely well hydrated and my stomach full so at this point I can just hope with each passing day it will get better.


****************************************************************************
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FROM THIS POINT ON I WILL POST MY LATEST INFORMATION
IN BOTH THIS THREAD AND THAT THREAD TO HELP KEEP
EVERYONE IN THE LOOP!
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As of right now I still feel great mentally. Physically I'm feeling much better than when I was out in public earlier. I really just wish I could physically make it at work right now. I can deal with feeling bad but I can't deal with feeling like I have no brain and like I'll fall to the ground and collapse.

*sigh*

Hopefully I will be out of that haze/fog/zombie state by Wednesday (day 7) and be able to work again? We'll see...

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by suzipen, Feb 15, 2009
Welcome Anonguy-

Boy, you have a story to tell!

I am glad you found us. We will all be here to support you, and help you thru this. This is an amazing place to be.

However, I am off to bed. Sleep doesnt always come so easily, but I think tonight may be a good night!

Keep posting!

Others will be along soon I am sure,
suzi

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
I thought tonight would be a good night for sleep for me, too. Nope, I am not so lucky...

Here's a breakdown of my nights so far:


*** Night 1 ***

Tossing and turning really badly, I had the worst sleep in weeks.

*** Night 2 ***

This was the worst night. I remember I started trying to go to sleep at about 6:30pm (I never, ever go to sleep that early but physically I was exhausted from the withdrawals) and gave up around 5am. Yes, I literally got no sleep at all. That night was horrible!

*** Night 3 ***

This was my best night but it wasn't amazing or anything. I fell asleep sometime after 9pm and woke up after 1am. Wow, 4 hours... I couldn't get back to sleep though so at 2:30am I made a bowl of soup with crackers. That hit the spot but I still couldn't get back to sleep until around 3:30am. I woke up around 7:30am and was happy I actually got some sleep.

*** Night 4 ***

Well that's tonight and so far it's been bad. It's not as bad as my second night but it's not far from being good. I went to bed around 8:30 and slept until 9:30, fell asleep again until 10:30 and fell asleep again until 11:15 and now it's 11:40pm and I'm still awake.


I can deal with all this sleeplessness as it's really more of an annoyance thing than anything else. What I can't deal with is, as I've already stated, not being able to function in the real world. I have tried many sleep aides every night including tonight (diphenhydramine, doxylamine, valerian root, 5-htp, melatonin, theanine, and a couple other things). Sleep is very important and I know my body needs it but again the most important thing to me is not feeling like a zombie when I'm out in public.

Even though I have no wife or kids I still have a life to live and need to work. At work, I am not just another employee; I hold arguably the single most important position. I can't keep calling into work forever, of course.

I know Emily was in a very similar situation to me (the number of years she used and amount she used per day) and I believe she claimed the first 3-4 days were the worst and by 1 week that fog/haze/zombie-state (as I like to call it) is noticeably starting to go away at that point. That's great news to me because I'm hours away from it being exactly 4 days since my last dose.

I think I recall Emily talking about having to wrap ice packs in ace bandages around her legs and the like and I am thankful I haven't had any of that kind of stuff going on. Right now, just as before I started to try to go to bed close to 4 hours ago now, I feel great both physically and mentally. I feel a little bit tired, that's for sure, but I am not depressed nor do I feel like I'm in a haze at all.

I really can't wait until I'm at that stage where I can go to work and not worry about falling on my face or running into people/things. When I get to that point it will be a huge psychological boost. I know tramadol's half life is very long but surely this **** should be all out of my system now and my body will start to recover soon enough.

You know what's funny about sleep, though? For the last 12 months I have been unable to fall asleep and sleep well unless I took both doxylamine and my melatonin with theanine right before bedtime. So even while I would be dosing a lot of tramadol, sleep still wouldn't come so easy. I could never take the tramadol after 5:30pm or so because it would mean I couldn't get to bed by midnight then. But even if my last dose was in the afternoon, I'd still have to pop my doxylamine and melatonin with theanine around 10pm in order to fall asleep and sleep well by 10:30.

I guess what I'm getting at with that last paragraph is although you'd think all the sleep aides I'm taking right now would help, it probably isn't doing much for the simple fact that most all of them I have already been taking on a daily basis for a year. No matter, though, as I'm sure I still wouldn't be sleeping easilly anyway since tramadol withdrawal is so evil.

It still amazes me that I can sit here and admit the ounces of cocaine I've done, the pure meth (ice) I've smoked 100's of times, the 1000's of oxycodone, hydrocodone, etc. pain pills I've done and none of them can come within 5% of the withdrawal/addiction symptoms that tramadol can. Yet, somehow, someway, tramadol is supposed to be "safe" and "non-habit forming." Coke, ice, and hardcore pain meds are supposed to all be the absolute hardest drugs to kick, right? I'm sorry but I can't help but to laugh....

Hey, while I am thinking about it I wanted to talk about how vets prescribe tramadol to dogs for many, many things. I have had two dogs now in the last 2 years that have been prescribed tramadol. I will never, ever allow my vet to prescribe this **** again to my dog. Can you imagine going through tramadol withdrawal as a pet who has no ability to reason and no way of communicating to their owner what they're going through? Just the thought makes me sad...

Well that's enough for now... I'm still in a very happy place mentally about how far I've come and I know I won't feel "normal" for much, much longer but I really just want to be able to get back to work and be a semi-functional member of society.

Goodnight and keep me in your prayers, everyone. :)

Avatar_m_tn
by FinallyFred, Feb 16, 2009
AnonGuy2,  I am glad you found us here.  I haven't personnally taken most of the drugs that you have taken, but many who have posted here say that tramdaol withdrawal is worse than ANYTHING else they have come off of.  All I know is that withdrawing from tram  isn't any fun and you have my sympathy and support.  

You said, "...a month or two ago I ended up running out for about 2-3 days before I got my next shipment in the mail. I was an absolute wreck during that time.

Here I am in the same situation. Only this time, I really want to throw away my next shipment when it comes. I haven't had tramadol now for 36 hours and I am a w-r-e-c-k! "

From my experience "day one" of tramadaol withdrawal is a piece of cake.   The first 24 hours, youv'e still got tramadol in the system, so it isn't until the 2nd or 3rd day that it REALLY starts screaming out for MORE. Most of the people I see attempting to beat this DON'T perish in the first 72 hours.  But it's when they haven't slept in 3-5 days and they are growing tired of feeling like **** that they eventually give in to the short term (understandable) desire to not feel so UNWELL that they use again.

Taking tramadol never did make me feel WELL.

As my tolerance to the drug built up over time,
I actually felt more and more pains
in places of my body I hadn't known I hurt before I started taking trams.

More and more of the drug did less and less for me.
And I never felt WELL on the drug.
I simply took it so I would feel LESS UNWELL.

Classical addiction, huh?
But it is such a small pretty white pill.

Insidiously dangerous little white pill.

People who post here for the first time generally fall into one of two classes of people: (1) people who are generally fed up with life on the tramadol train OR  (2) people in the midst of pain, rolling on the floor in the agonizing throwns of withdrawal with 36-48 hours since their last pill. I have seen BOTH types of people succeed in withdrawing from this drug.  

But one thing I have NEVER seen... is a person succeed of the second type who hasn't FIRMLY resolved to beat this thing BEFORE their next shipment of tramadol arrives.  THAT type of person, unfortunately, is doomed to get back on the train as soon as the next shipment arrives.   So PLEASE spend the remaining time that you have now, to examine just how badly you want off this train.  And to what lengths you are ready to go to succeed.

Everyone now taking tramadol will stop one day.  Succeeding doesn't get any easier with time on the drug.  I took this stuff for six years, and getting off it was the HARDEST thing Ihave ever done.  And my decision to fight to beat this drug was a somber serious occassion...reached only after I had tried for months and years to find an easier, softer way out.  But I could not.  Not for me.  

Some here run a successful "taper' program.  It's unfortunately TOO LATE for you to try that right at the moment.  You KNOW that right?  Yours is a simple but NOT easy decision:  How badly do you want to be free from this? Cause there are some in this room, who have been fighting the good fight for 6-7 days and they still feel like giving in (but they don't).  How long are you willing to feel like you do now if it means you can once and forever be free of the trams?

Anon, I have never said this to anyone else who has posted here before, but there is so much about you that reminds me of my own two sons.  Your age, your occupation, and in the case of one of my boys, your past drug use.  So I hope I don't sound uncaring in anything that I am saying to you Anon. I'm,,,ah,,,just...um...trying to imagine what I would wish someone would say to my oldest boy if he ever posted here.

Others here have a much greater knowledge of "medical matters" than I do.  But they tell me that it can be dangerous to begin to withdrawal and then start back up again at the same dose you were taking before...as in SEIZURE bad.  So be careful if your "shipment" arrives and you decide to start taking tram again.  Certainly, for your sake, I'd like to see you gut this out and become free of your addiction.  But the LAST thing I want to see is for you to wind up dead.  So start up slowly again if that's what you want to do.

If, on the other hand, you have committed to really getting this behind you, AS SOON AS YOUR ORDER ARRIVES, open the box and flush the pills down the toilet.  Once you have done that, write back again and there will be others here who will be happy to support you.

Let us know how you are OK?

Fred





  

Avatar_m_tn
by FinallyFred, Feb 16, 2009
Anonguy,  From your last post, it sounds like you might be pretty serious about making this work.  If you absolutely MUST be to work I would seriously consider asking a doc to write me a script to use  fora week or two.  I tried all those other things you mentioned as well, and nothing sems to help with sleeping during early withfrawal.  

I was lucky to not have to work that first week and thee is NO way I could have functioned on 0-2 hours sleep each night.

Good luck to you whatver you do.  

Fred

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by EmilyPost, Feb 16, 2009
Welcome UPS Guy;

You're in the right place, and it will be ok. You can get off Ultram/Tramadol and never look back. In my experience Percoset was easer to w/d from than Tramadol ... such a lie they feed us!

Wow. Going to a hospital and having them tell you that Ultram is not addictive. That is terrible.

You write, "I can deal with the harsh body aches somewhat but that deep bone pain plus the insomnia plus the restless legs is unbearable. I found myself strolling aimlessly around my neighborhood like a vampire at 3 A.M because I couldn't be still for more than a minute. It's just so hard when you have a job to boot, always taking days off and leaving early due to your "mysterious sickness" and then to add insult to injury, a good portion of your earnings goes to buying more pills! You don't realize but your funding your own demise!"  

I know ... I know ...

Your story is scary UPS man. You are lucky to be alive.  I am so glad you have a plan. Keep posting! Love that you stockpiled the goods to help you wth withdrawal!

KC yes ... rest. Time to lay low in the fox hole. Rest is good as it's a long unpredictable withdrawal. Randomly. Not constantly; which makes it more annoying for us humans ... Gah! I remember the punched in the belly feeling. Ouchie! Plus stomach pain intensifies anxiety. :( (((hugs)))

Hillbilly I love your cute pictures and you and your wife are adorable!  I love your stores ...

LMAO about this; "My wife baked me a beautiful "heart shaped" cake Saturday.  (Sorry Emily) " hehehe Fred! Funny!

Hllbilly your story about your wedding! Crazy! I hate snow, so I am on your wife's side.  Grew up in snow ... now I am cold intolerant! AND it snowed here a couple weeks back! In Southern California! Arctic freezing cold ... Where's my Global Warming!? You are doing so well Hillbilly! Daytona huh? Funny. I met some kids recently in LA who were .. um ... they street race. One of them told me all about how they strip down a cars frame to make it faster.

Everything this kid was talking about was illegal. It was crazy and amazing and I asked a ton of questions. Asked him if he had ever crashed a car ... did he know it was not safe? You know; questions a food addict asks a adrenaline addict. It was pretty amazing.  I love how curious being off drugs has made me about other people. I told him about being in Germany in a super expensive Mercedes on the autobahn and that we drove about 130 ....  Thank goodness for The Autobahn or we'd all be typing in German! It is so seamless and smooth we used it to land our own planes on ...

Kev! (((Kev))) Beautiful really. ESP the part about your spider ... You're doing good Kev. I'm really happy to read what you wrote. It's as if your heart is coming back from Tramadol. A bit broken maybe, but hearts recover. (((Kev))))

Emergee ((((hugs))) What Benzo are you tapering? Klonopin? Well, all the benzo experts say no more than 10% every 7-10 days. I'm **** a direct taper. In other words, I have to cut a pill with a razor blade. To get a tapering schedule these peeps can help ...

http://www.************.org/

In England it is common to switch to Valium. Not popular in the states. You know I go see Dr. Groovy tomorrow and I've tapered down to .75 mg. He thinks I am on 2.0. He never "gave me permission to taper .... " So I am almost 100% sure that this will my last appointment, and then I will be drug free.

I'll tell you something. I am NOT done tapering and not off the drug. So far my perspective is that ... um ... hang on. That ... it's not as bad as Tramadol was ... I also think .. get off the Tramadol ALL THE WAY and then taper the Benzo.

It comes in waves Honey Bunny. AFTER The first 48 hours after a cut (I'm cutting faster than 10% ... my last cut was 25%) I feel typical withdrawal from a Benzo stuff.

Not as physical as Tramadol. Not as dark. Not as scary. Remember; this is only my experience. There are waves of pure dread and panic and horror. But as always, I know that is the DRUG talking. It is not me. Today was horrible. Right now I feel ok ... but ... the day has been filled with a subtle shaking. It feels like someone is running too much electricity thru me. I also think .. it feels in my head as if I am having the slowest stroke known to man. So slow. Time is slow. Concentration and memory is ... not good.

I walk into rooms and wonder why I came in. I "lost" my bank card .. I looked in my bag for it and ... it was "not there". for two days ... only see .. it WAS there. I messed up a name of a place I was to meet someone today. DH has no idea. Although he was kind enough not to freak out when I asked if we had any razor blades in the house. :D

I posted on ************ and here's a copy of my recent post ...
____________________________________________________________________
  Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Support / Planning Your Taper / Re: Is it possible to direct taper from 1.0 mg Klonopin with 60 1.0 mg pills left?  on: February 11, 2009, 06:37:47 PM  
Hi Nice Benzo Buddies!

So much better today.  I feel so much better today. So much better. Yay! I hope this holds for awhile. It's SOoooooo Niceeeeeeee. I'm really enjoying it. I woke up wth no stomach pain, first time in two solid weeks? I feel like I could do a bunch of pushups and jump rope like Jack LaLaine!

I cut from 1.0 mg to .75 mg of Klonopin. Pretty sure this coulda, woulda, shoulda been done sooner.  I could not figure out how to do it ... I'm pretty sure those symptoms were withdrawal tolerance symptoms which  Ihave had far too much of. Having a Doctor who does not give me a taper schedule or tell me how to taper or give me the tools (.5 mg pills) to taper is wicked awful.

I came home last night and asked DH, "Hey, do we have any razor blades?" Probably not the best way to announce a cut in klonopin, but nonetheless the guy is informed now about my razor blade/mirror cutting job. I really think by now, no one can hear me when I talk about what drug I am coming off. I talk really openly about it; cause I have nothing to hide, but the names probably blend together for most people.

I've been on so many pills since my original car accident. There have been three, 2000, 2007 ((I lost a baby in that one)) and 2008 in August. Two cars totaled. All of these; not my fault. Sometimes I tell people this and they say things like, "Wow, you shouldn't drive a car." Or, "Maybe someone is trying to tell you something?"

Yeah dude. They are trying to tell me that Los Angeles is filled wth terrible drivers? I don't think it has a Cosmic Higher Meaning. But, I have been wrong before!

Anyhow, I started taking pills for pain in 2002. I gave in two years after that first accident and have been failing Pills 101 ever since.

Here's the Laundry List. I have been on Codeine, Darvoset, Percoset, Morphine, Vicodin.  I hated Vicodin, it was like being in direct communication with The Dark Side.  Tramadol. Tramadol was the worst withdrawal I have ever ever experienced... it lasted for months. ...

I have been on Flexeril, Soma and many other muscle relaxants. I have had trigger point injections, I have had mysterious Tranquilizer injections. I was too out of it and in too much pain to ask ... Once the nurse seemed to ht my actual arm bone during an injection and my DH was there when I fainted. Doctors hate it when you faint.  I have to laugh now cause I was crying about my "arm bone" and DH sad, "Well,does your back hurt anymore?"  said, "No, the hole in my arm bone hurts now." He said, "See? It worked."

Sense of Humor .. He has it.

Ok and Benzos. What's up wth chronic pain and Benzos? Such a bad idea ... I have been on Xanax and Ativan and Klonopin. Xanax gave me reflex panic attacks and to be honest I had no withdrawal coming off Xanax. Ativan did absolutely nothing to me. Nadda. Nothing. It was like taking a sugar pill. Weird! So odd.

More drugs, all the anti inflamitories. Even the one that was yanked off the Market for killing people. Steroids (Ok there's some stuff that made me Insto-Crazy-Just-Add-Water)

Propananol for PTSD ... that worked very well actually.

The Doctors were big on Antidepressants, and luckily I avoided most except amityptilyine. Which made me want to die. Of course, given everything else that they had me on; it coulda been some weirdo drug interaction. I know I am forgetting some pills. Oh yes, the sleeping pills. Which did not work for me in any way.

Al this for two disc herniations and nerve damage in my right leg.

So this is the last of the pills. I'm much stronger, I'm much better. The accidents were horrific but not as bad as all these pills. Pills Pills Pills.

Pamster2!! Lordie! Cold Turkey off 6mg of Klonopin? That's ... amazing and scary and I am so glad you are OK and so blessed that you are here cheering for me, as I am for you and everyone here! Thank you! Yesterday ... the "Hang in there and don't worry about your mind being fuzzy, it happens.  Everything seems to big for us to face too, even the little normal day to day activities." really helped. I got off the phone with Doctor Groovy's Assistant and I was so discouraged.

I do want to be free! You're a Sweetheart Pamster 2!

Hi there Lori Lee, sweet lady. I understood Beeper's Modified Titration. It will come in handy. I will not reduce more than 33.3% ever. 'll try to stay closer to 25% and when i can go as slowly as I can. I won't go from .5 to nothing. I promise. I am anxious to get off this stuff because it's making me feel awful. Less is more at the moment. But now that I know more of what I am ****; I'll be good. I'll go slow. Probably not 10% slow, unless I get slammed. Since August I have wanted off.

Lori Lee you write, "Isn't it terrible that we have to "hide" things like tapering from out drs. Or to think we need the drs. permission to get off the klonopin!! It's like we are children again, and asking our parents permission to do something. In reality, it's OUR choice and OUR bodies. But, we are in a sense at their mercy, because only they can write the prescription for refills or smaller doses to do a slow and steady taper."

Gah! Yes! You would not believe the number of Doctors I have seen thru all of this and the lesson I learned VERY early was one of self protection. If they had me on some pill, I always always knew they would and could "decide" to throw me into cold turkey withdrawal. So I became defensive and careful. ESP w/Klonopin. Cause that's scary stuff!

I have to laugh at Doctor Groovy because yes, the next time I see him WILL be the last. The End. Bye Bye and don't let the door hot ya on the way out!! It really makes me sick to think about what he has been doing since August. Which is; telling me not to taper.

!!!!!!!!!!!

So angry about that. But the Anger about the Issue is not as effective or self-protective as simply lying to him about my dose age. I need the energy to get off the last drug; the klonopin. If he were a good Doctor (I've met 2 good Doctors and seen probably 50?) I would have been Honest. But there's no need to be Honest wth someone who may try to cut you off and throw you into a CT w/d or Seizure. That's like trying to kill someone; in my opinion.

My hatred of the Pill World and Doctor World is pretty intense. I see the need. But I don't think anyone should trust these Doctors. How can Psychiatrists do this?

Ummm ... yeah. The Morality of it is sickening. But in my case, he did not need my trust or my truth. I told the guy what he wanted to hear and tapered on my own til I found you all who told me how to do this more reasonably.

His taper schedule, "Try to tale less. Drop down by .5 mg at a time ..."

We all know that's not reasonable or safe at the 1 mg level and below.

My brains got scrambled by the phone call to the Doctor yesterday. Which is when I wrote asking for help.

Thank you all so much! I guess now that I know how to direct taper, I'll go start a thread on the Blog part of this site ... so all my entries are in one place.

I feel 100000000 times better today than I did yesterday. I pray and hope it lasts and I am fine with it; either way. I'm trying to be Zen Master Emily Post and embrace the symptoms ... as a sign of Recovery. (I'll let you know if I achieve this ;-)

By the way the kindness here makes me cry. Which is good. I hope you all know that by having this website you are literally saving people's lives. The words you share mean so much!

Love and Healing,
Emily

__________________________________________________________

So ... I guess my way of saying that so far; it's reminding me of ... 30-50% of how bad it was
coming off Tramadol.

Welcome AnonMan;

You have come to the right place and you are very very close to being out.

Stick around ...

Post alot




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by EmilyPost, Feb 16, 2009
AnonGuy

You write, " know Emily was in a very similar situation to me (the number of years she used and amount she used per day) and I believe she claimed the first 3-4 days were the worst and by 1 week that fog/haze/zombie-state (as I like to call it) is noticeably starting to go away at that point. That's great news to me because I'm hours away from it being exactly 4 days since my last dose.

I think I recall Emily talking about having to wrap ice packs in ace bandages around her legs and the like and I am thankful I haven't had any of that kind of stuff going on. Right now, just as before I started to try to go to bed close to 4 hours ago now, I feel great both physically and mentally. I feel a little bit tired, that's for sure, but I am not depressed nor do I feel like I'm in a haze at all."

Naw, I was on 8 plls and then freaked out when it hit 10 50 mg pills a day. You're talking about more, which may be equivalent to me, since I am female and small ... either way the fact you made it so far ... is NOT something I would want to gve up easily. I worked half days and cancelled when I had to ...  I run my own busness. I had to get off the pills.

I was also taking other pills. I honestly think that you have a chance to get out ... unless you have a vacation coming up I would not go back on Tramadol and taper after 4 days cold turkey. But ... see... my priority was to get off the Tramadol and stay off. It wasn't anything else. I would have died if I had stayed on any longer.

Yep, I have nerve damage in my right leg. That was the leg that I wrapped in ice. Do you have chronic pain?

Wishing you all tghe best Anon Man!


Love and healing,
Emily


Avatar_m_tn
by FinallyFred, Feb 16, 2009
NOT SO MUCH ABOUT TRAM, BUT ABOUT PEOPLE I CARE ABOUT:

Kev,  I have read your last post several times.  My heart goes out to you Kev.  If I lived nearby, I'd call you up and take you to coffee (or tea?)  And listen and not speak unless you asked me to.

Your story about the spider struck me on so many levels.

My wife is afraid of spiders but I have no strong feelings one way or another about them.  I typically "clear' them cause...well, I sort have to for her...but I also allow them to remain if she hasn't spotted them.  Hee Hee Hee.   Your discussion of them,

"Does spider know that I live on the 5th floor and very few flies make it up here? And NONE in the winter? All spider can do is rest his energy,wait in hope. He doesnt move much any more, its been a while. I'm going to catch some tiny bugs and see if I cant intervene. People dont like spiders because they're ugly, quick, poisonous etc. But sitting in that tiny web,waiting for a reprieve that may never come, he doesnt look ugly or poisonous. He looks just like me. Fear of death is the greatest leveller. I hope spider doesnt know what despair is".

Showed me what a caring man that you are.  I will never think of a spider ever in the same light again.  

But it also  makes me sad to think of you dispairing Kev.  Do you write songs when you feel this way?  Dispair can be a mighty fine imputus for song writing, even though there isn't much other good to come out of dispair.  Like journal writing, song writing can record your path for later reflection.  And there ain't nothing more powerful than the blues.

I sure whih I was a counseler type.  Cause I would gladly spend my time trying to try to make you see that there is at least a "chance" that old spider will catch a fly...hope that just maybe, tomorrow MIGHT not be as bad as today is for you Kevin.

I'll admit it, I am hard wired to "negative" too Kev. Maybe that's what you were referring to when you said something I had written was "dark".  When I said recently something about PRESUMING that there was no way of catching up at work?  

Here's a news flash for you, I am taking this week off regardless of how caught up or behind I may be.  

Here's my definition of hope.  Even though when I look around...and everything looks entirely bleak...even when every lesson I have learned in life is telling me that there is no way out...even when the odds are SERIOUSLY stacked up against anything from changing...hope (naked and unsupported by facts) IS the substance of things not yet seen.

Hope is the belief that just maybe, tomorrow can be different than my life today.  

I may not have the evidence to support my hope today, but hope is the singular belief that while I haven't a freaking clue how it might happen, tomorrow could suprise me.

That's how I came up with the thought, "Surprises aren't always bad surprises".  Because honestly, without hope, that's how I expect my tomorrow to be like...A  bad surprise.  

Hope alone is vital to our well being.  It defies reason.  It isn't supported by the facts of today.  But hope of a better day can also make the seemingly IMPOSSIBLE...possible for us.

************

My (HOPEFUL) Valentine Day Story

I am taking this week off work for a "stay at home vacation" and I can sleep in some.  So, having talked about hope and loss and spiders and my wife and music, let me tell you a story.  My Valentie Day story.  Call the spiders and the dog Kev, and settle in.

I was 17 years old when I met the love of my life.  She was 15 years old at the time we we met.  We  met at a Merilee Rush and the Turnabouts (Angle of the Morning" and all that) concert.  I can still picture her standing there with her two girl friends.  Straight brunette hair (that I found out later she "ironed", petite, and OMG, cute?  As I approached, I made a quick decision and I then asked HER to dance.  We were both smitten with one another.  She gave me her phone # and I actually got up the nerve to call her the next day.  It was a hot summer day and I picked her up on my motorcycle.  We walked along the waterfront, but we could have been anywhere.

We were each other's first loves and when I left for college a year and a 1/2 later, we vowed to "stay in touch".  Even though we were both terribly young, we talked about marriage one day, how many children we would have...those kinds of silly things that young loves talk about.

And then I left town to attend college.  She told me later that she felt like I was "leaving her", but I honestly didn't feel that way myself.  I still recall writing to one another every day at first, then once a week, then once a month...you get the picture.  We saw each other 3-4 times that first quarter of college, but things really weren't ever the same.  I saw her at Christmas that year and it didn't go well.  I called her house six months after that and her brother told me that she no longer lived there.  At 17, she had left home, moved out of state, and was living with someone I didn't know.  Gone.

I had taken up playing the guitar by that point of my life.   And as I struggled with each new cord progression, with every new song I was learning...all I could think about was her.  I began writing songs at that time, and nearly every song spoke of loss, confusion and dispair.  I was inconsolable for several months.  

A few years later, I met and married someone else(a great piano player) ,  we had two sons together and life went on.  But I always kept a blue ribbon from my "first loves"  hair tucked deep at the bottom of my drawer.  It may have looked innocent enough to others, but to me, it was a touch stone with my first love that I could not forget.  And I cried every time Icame upon it...for what might have been.

Fast Forward 20 years.  My first marriage ended in divorce.  

Shortly after that, I ran into my "first love's" mother.  I actually had a rather nice visit, considering how "protective" and puritanical I had always  thought her to have been back in the day.   Curfews, groundings and that front porch light flipping on and off, apparently signaling we had "said goodnight" long enough out front.

To make a long story short, I learned that my "first love" was available and living back in town.  We met to go for a walk (on the same waterfront), I looked into her eyes,  and we fell in love all over again.  And from that day until now, we have been together ever since.  I still get weepy when I consider this and so does she.  Today we both feel like we are the luckiest people on earth to have found one another again after all those years apart.

So Kev, possibility from the impossible?  Yes, I believe.

What ever you need may not come to you tomorrow or even next month, but please do not give up hope.  And in the meantime, go write some sad songs if you must.  I love you man!

Fred


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by dontbelieve, Feb 16, 2009
hey guys...

ok in general had a blast watching the race with my family...had a couple of friends who knew i was in pain but didnt know i was off meds offer me pills...but i turned em down....without a second thought! Tjhat felt good....

Ok now the problem...I have pain that is mostly in my neck occasionally my back...prolem being my C2-C4 are fusing...pushing the discs into my spinal cord and if i dont have surgery according to the doctor will eventually paralize me....the doc wants to wait a bit for the surgery which is fine by me....my dad had neck surgery and lost some range of motion and i am too young for that.(Although i do have some of that now)..especially with  laid up wife and a kid on the way....

I really have felt fantastic all day long...not a single sign of withdrawl today....saw my brain sugery buddy kevin..hes doing great...hung out with my folks...got a PURDY new RAIDERS lamp from my mom....overall it was a great day....

until the drive home....and i dont know if anyone in here has any experience with neck problems....I was driving home and heard and felt a loud snap/pop..my neck doesnt not crack...i have tried for years it just wont....when i turned my neck to look at wifey it cracked and sent pain down my arm and my left leg....and i damn near wrecked the car...( its a honda hybrid no loss...hehehe).....when i got home i sat in my recliner and tried to relax...no way...now i have heat on my neck but the pressure is killing me from the heat pad...my wife cant even touch it...either its swelling or my muscles are in a ball because i have now got a big knot....any idea what i did?!?....anyone familiar with spinal injuries...obviously i plan to call the doc tomorrow but my wife reminded me its a holiday...
RIght now typing this i am getting shooting pains down my arm...i have to cut it short...any ideas?....


Hope all are well..

Hillbilly




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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
Fred & Emily --

Thanks for the replies already. Either you're up in the middle of the night like me or your 'across the pond' and not in the USA like I am. Either way, thanks for addressing my situation.

I am 5,000,000,000 % committed to getting off this stuff and recovering.

I am so committed that, if I have to, I will take a leave of absence from work in 2-3 more days if I still cannot physically take being there. My position with the company is very important, no doubt, but my life, my soul, my well being is infinitely more important.

I'm still astonished at how mentally I feel 100% fine and like I can take on the world yet physically my body is saying, "Hahaha, yeah right, chump!"

I have been putting so much focus on eating and drinking. Days 1 and 2 off tramadol I didn't have an appetite at all. All day yesterday and so far tonight I just can't get enough food, though.

For the first time since I've quit taking the tramadol, my stomach was rumbling and hurting as if to say "I'm still hungry, but I am hurting, too!" In other words, I feel hunger pains in my chest but I also feel a lot of soreness there that comes and goes.

Some interesting things I have noticed over the last few days of coming off tramadol I haven't really seen talked about much if at all:

- My lips get so dry, chapped, and the skin on them cracks.
- Sense of smell is amazingly heightened and has been since day 1 of quitting.
- Have to urinate a lot more frequently and today it's been changing some wicked green colors.
- My stools (sorry if this is too gross for you guys) smell so ungodly horrible it's not even funny. They smell like they've got chemicals in them it's really quite strange. Also, my stools have started to firm up now but they're also changing to some very strange dark green and so dark brown it's almost black at times.

I am at a point now that I can practically eat anything but I am still enjoying the heck out of soup. Something about not feeling well and soup have always went hand in hand, you know?

I made one last attempt at sleep a couplr hours ago after my last post where I took some more of my sleep aides and restless legs stuff. I gave it an hour and it wouldn't work. There's no point in laying in bed getting all angry, upset, and frusterated that I can't fall asleep as that does nothing good for my recovery at all.

Today will be a better day, you know? Maybe only a tiny bit better, but it'll be better.

I won't have to go back in to work until Friday morning and by that time it will have been 8 days clean going on 9. I keep praying that this zombie state will be a bit cleared up by then. I have full faith it will but I don't want to get my hopes up.

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by kes68, Feb 16, 2009
I have been under the weather for over a week - it takes a while to catch up here!
I've had the flu / cold thing - it just knocked me off my feet.  While I was miserable I figured I might as well cut back a bit more on the tram.  The flu made me so tired I could barely move - I thought it might counter the sleeplessness, RLS of tram withdrawal.
I had already gone down to 15 pills a day ( a week ago) so mid week I went down another 2 pills - I am not sure if I've noticed or not.
Right now I am exhausted, I have been sleeping the day away, no appitite - but I am thinking this is still more of the nasty flu.
Hopefully by the time I am feeling better I will be comfortable at 15.
I read all of your posts - so many of you battling the first stages of c/t - I am envious.  You will be well on your way to putting your life together much before I will.
I justify the hell out of tapering - can't risk losing time from work (I run my own business) can't jump off of 16 pills - will taper to a lower dose and then c/t.  But I wonder if it is my way of still hanging onto this damn drug?!
Why the hell I would want to do that is beyond me.
I am keeping up on my reading - but not a ton of energy to post.
There are a number of you winning this battle - keep it up - you are closer to life today!!

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by kevzx81, Feb 16, 2009
Fred-So happy to hear you will be taking it easy for a few days. I'm a ' type A' work wise myself so I know how hard it is to disengage once youre in the flow.
I've been reading your post and its given me so much to think about. First the guitar...
My all time favourite acoustic track is James Taylors ' you've got a friend'. Your post brings this song to mind. It must have been the coffee invite, or maybe all the times youve written me no matter how difficult or painful the subject.
Predictably Im as contrary in music as in other areas of life and never write sad songs, well not about myself anyway.
Im playing electric only these days as back pain forbids large bodied gtrs. Good for anger though the electric, I often have a ' hendix moment'. Luckily blues works on any gtr.

You obviously know what lack of hope is. you named my mindset exactly. Im only expecting ' bad surprises.'  I think you may have helped me identify a pattern from my early life I'd not been aware of. I think I may have a case of self-fulfilling prophecy here. You say " Hope (naked and unsupported by facts) IS the substance of things not yet seen". I may have been brought up around the wrong substances in that case. Im not keen to give details of my early life, suffice to say I've spent my adult life trying to recover from it. Even xmas' and birthdays were bad surprises back then. So hope is a substance....made from the knowledge that not all surprises are bad surprises. True, I've had a few good surprises too.
You have an impresive way with recipes Fred. Im going now, off to write it down in triplicate and try and remember some of those good surprises.
May I at least pay for the coffees?


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by FinallyFred, Feb 16, 2009
Hillbilly, Glad you have a fun day "distracting" yourself by watching the races.  You seem like such a nice young man with a lot of interests and a great sense of humor to boot.  When I was in H.S., I worked at an engine rebuild shop taht sponsored race cars.  Not NASCAR of course, but I had fun going to local road races with my dad.  

My first day at work, the boss gave me a trophy that one of his sponsored cars had won.  I was 15 years old and thought I was on top of the world.  But the # 1 thing I learned about working at that engine shop every Saturday while I was in H.S., was that I didn't want to work around all that grease and dirt the rest of my life.  Fun times though.

You do know that your neck problems have nothing to do with tramadol right?  I for one am not qualified to give you an answer on disc problems.  If you are having paralysis in one of your arms that will not go away in a few days, I'd be trying to get in to see an orthopadic surgeon.  Seriously Hillbilly, I wouldn't mess around with that.

Congratulations on another tram free day today.

Anon Guy,  I live in Seattle so I am on PST...it IS the middle of the night, but I am so damned glad to not be working this week (vacation), that I am reveling in staying up LATE,  until my wife wanders out and drags me into bed.  :)

I was happy to see your resolve.  You are SO right, (your) " life, (your) soul, (your) well being is infinitely more important" than a job.  Like other's have shared here, the symptoms you will be feeling the next few days do mimick the flu to a large degree.  So could you beg off by calling in with the flu a few days?  I actually went to work on my day 7 and I could do it again.  But you will feel much better by Day 14, than even Day 7.  Like others have said here, recovery is NOT straight line linear.  It is random.  You will take a couple steps forward and then have a really lousy day again.  But you will recover in time.

I am a big soup guy myself Anonguy.  Ever crunch up potato chips into tomato soup?  (probably) so bad for you, but so tasty and comforting.

I can relate to your "up and down" situation and being unable to sleep at the stage you are at.  It IS so frustrating to feel like (maybe this time) you can actually fall asleep, you climb in and that damn stabbing pain in the feet just won't allow you to sleep.

Have you ever tried counting to ten without thinking of a fox?  Go ahead, 1, 2, 3, FOX!  try it, you can't do it.  It's about the same way with the elusiveness of sleep while you are going through withdrawal, it's TOUGH.  And it seems like the harder you try to get to sleep, the more it won't come.  You may as well joke about it...cause you won't sleep worth a darn the next few weeks.  And i say this, knowing (as you said) you have already taking the "prescribed" standbys.

Emily's "deep breathing" has worked for me though.  Granted,I am not in early withdrawal, but even now, when I can't sleep, I practice deep breathing.  When we sleep, our breathing IS deep, right?  So by breathing deeply and purposefully while we lay there, it mimicks the sleep we hope to achieve.    As in "fake it until you make it", right?  

The other thing that I try to do, is to make sure I am relaxed while I am laying there.  I start at the toes on one foot, picture a 5 lb. weight on that foot, drawing it into the matress.  Then work your way up the foot to the ankle, then the calf, the knee, all the way up to your hip.  Imagine your body being relaxed (check?)  as you move from one leg, then the other, then start with your fingers on one hand, repeat, etc. until you hae confirmed that every part of your body is relaxed.  I am always surprised when I do this and find that say, my shoulders are "clenched", etc.  Try it, it's worth the price you are paying for it.

Baths too can help you relax and soothe the pains of withdrawal at night.    I took six baths in one night once.  Have plenty of towells on hand.  Light some candles.  Play some soothing music.  Take a yellow ducky in with you.  None of this can hurt.  

Good luck.  Post often.  Otehrs will be along in the morning.  Me, I'm headed for...er...ah...bed.

Sweet Dreams (I hope),

Fred

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
Yeah I am intending on not being at work until day 8 (which is this Friday). I know it won't be fun at all but I am wishfully thinking it won't be as bad as day 2 was when I tried to work and couldn't do anything but feel like I would pass out.

I am kind of glad I don't have health insurance, but kind of not glad too. Why? If I had insurance, I would *have* to go to the doctor or my family and work would know something weird is up. But then again, it would give me an opportunity to get professional help. Yet still, your own accounts and others' too haven't been great with explaining to doctors it's nothing more than tramadol addiction. Simply put, they don't/won't believe you. That one person said one time he went to the doctor for this they said it was in his head and prescribed him some xanax and sent him home. Gee, thanks...

You're right about the withdrawal symptoms coming and going, there's no doubt about that. But I have yet to ever feel that heavy passing-out feeling here in my apartment (which I have experienced while out in public the last two days).

The baths always sound like a good idea but I would want to clean my tub first and I'm too lazy at the moment.

If somehow, someway I cannot start work on day 8 as planned, I do not know what I will do. I could try and weasel my work into giving me the next 10 days after that off as vacation. Hmmm... That would be tempting. If I need to do that, I would like to think I would be work-ready at that proposed 18 day or so mark. Again, not 100%, but a lot better than where I'm at right now!

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by FinallyFred, Feb 16, 2009
Kev,  Well dispite my best intentios to go to bed (it's 2:40 a.m. here PST) , I am still up, and just read your last post.  I am so glad I gave you some things to think about.  Yes, of course you may buy the coffee!  :)

yes, it is terribly dehibilitating when our past leaves us thinking that the only surprises in store for us are BAD ones.  But what I am finding is that if I can hold open even teh possibility that a "good surprise" maybe possibly could happen for me, I have the hope to move forward, even if only mechanically some days.

Thre is generally no advance warning of a "good surprise".  They sneak up on you while you aer unaware.  

***********

Some of the kids around here will need to turn the channel for a few moments:

But some  of the earliest influences (musically) for me were (but of course) the Beetles, Rubber Soul, Revolver.  

Simon and Garfunkle, Bridge over Troubled Water and earlier albumns.   That's right kids, they actually had records - that were as big as houses and you had to play them on "record players".  MONO.

Yes, of course, I was big time into James Tayler songs.  Many of his were depressing, but I loved and played them all.

And John Sebastion?  Do you recall that one, with the lyricks, "where hve you been, my darling children.  While I have been away in the west.  While you are strangers, i feel like I know you.  By the way that you greet me and offer to feed me. And eagerly ask if I'll stay for a rest."    That one?

When I was in college one summer, I traveled in Europe with a back pack and a (Hoefner) accustic that I picked up cheap in Germany.  I hooked up with some German fellows who (at the time) thought it was grand that I was an American musican (not so much now I expect) and I jammed with them near Frankfrut.  I played for drinks and tips in Spain and in "coffeee houses" around town here, but I was NOT by any stretch of the imagination a "professional" musician.  For me, guitar, singing, and writing music  was always an outlet for my emotions.  Yes, crank up some Jimmie Hendricks licks, but don't scare your spider!  

Today, I still have my old D-35 Martin that (mostly) sits next to my bed.  I pick it up and play it every once in a while.   I suspect that if I rummaged around enough, I would still find a great many lyricks of songs I wrote back in the day.  Mainly a reminder of where my head was at at the time.  

We are all just stumbling pilgrams in the dark here Kev.  I am so glad to call you friend.

And I am still picturing that "medhelp" coffee gathering in my mind.  Maybe at tables outside on a much warmer day than today is.

Fred

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by dontbelieve, Feb 16, 2009
hey guys getting ready to attempt the sleep....

FRED: thanks again for the kind words...yeah i was taking tramadol for the neck pain...I am working still with an spine surgeon but tonight i jus did something wicked to my neck.....not really sure but my hand and my arm are mostly numb...typing with one hand *****...but i think a bigger concern is what i did tonight and after 7 days of hell of being off tramadol i finally start to feel normal and now this....no more tramadol...i am worried he is going to try to perscribe something....but hopefully an injection will clear it all up.....

I am dying here tonight so not too much typing...be strong all have a good night and a great tomorrow....

KEV...i wont kill anymore spiders...lol




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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
dontbelieve

I hope you got to sleep, man. I also hope an injection will clear that neck issue up for you.

*********

Man after my last post 2 hours ago I decided to lay down just to see if sleep really was out of the question. I couldn't sleep so I sat up in my bed on my back. Normally this creates cramps for me but I found that I was starting to doze off. I can't ever sleep on my back so this was strange! After a short while I transitioned to my side, where I'm much more comfortable, and was able to turn that into over 1.5 hours of broken-up sleep. So, let's see.... That means I got about 4 or 4.5 hours of sleep last night? Bummer...

I woke up though to feeling pretty crappy. I don't know if it was a dream or a withdrawal symptom or thought but I recall waking up in a panic. Quite a few things were rushing through my head:

- It seemed like either I dreamed or thought I was going to fail and so I might as well give up on trying to quit.
- I realized my alarm clock was going to go off in about 20 minutes. I only set it as a reminder to call in to work before the start of my shift.
- My stomach was sore and growling again.

Man, talk about waking up to anxiety! The silver lining was in the back of my head reminding myself I just got another 1.5 hours or so of sleep.

I got dressed, took my vitamins and medicines, gave fresh food and water to my puppy, grabbed my phone, sat down on my couch and called work. I felt like such a loser calling in to work and lying saying I am sick when in reality I'm trying to kick a chemical dependancy. It wouldn't be as big of a deal if I didn't hold such a high and important position there. But anyway...

I immediately went to sit on the toilet. Just as the last couple days have been, I have found myself sitting on the toilet a LOT and having to try really hard to get the waste out of my body.

This next bit isn't pleasant to talk about but I have to ask everyone as it has me really, really concerned: My stools, as I've said before, are no longer liquid, but they're not large masses either. They don't float and they're shaped very strange and look very rough and non-uniform. On top of all that, they are almost black, and as I've said before, they stink worse than any human waste I have ever seen or smelled in the world. Then, the kicker, is when wiping, there's a lot of pain.

Is any of this normal? Did anyone here go through anything like that and if so, how long did that type of stuff last? It really, really has me concerned.

Fred, last night I forgot to tell you I kept thinking of your whole "Team Tramadol is leading by a score of 1 million and whatever to 6" statement you made where your 'score' was how many days you were clean.

Another random note here is, due to Fred's "trama train" references I kept having Ozzy's "I'm goin' off the rails on the crazy train!" stuck in my head. I was able to find it a little funny at the time and can still chuckle a bit right now but in all honesty, it did get quite annoying.

Emily -- I forgot to address your question asking me if I was taking the tramadol for some kind of pains. Nope, I always took it just for recreational purposes.

A small bit of me does feel like I'm going insane. That should be a good sign though, no? I mean, before, that's something I wouldn't have felt because the tramadol would make me immune to such unpleasant feelings, right?

I sit here and think, "Wow, where did the last 4-5 days of my life go?"

I am starting to get angrier and angrier at this tramadol ****. I will keep loading the ammunition (my medicines and vitamins) into my body to fight the war that's within.

I know there's a light at the end of the tunnel... It just seems so far, far away.

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
ATTENTION ::

I have invited a couple fellow tramadol soldiers from the drugs.com forum here citing the incredible community, support, and compassion everyone has here (Kev, Fred, Emily, dontbelieve, kes, etc.)!!

Here's a link to that post where I invited them:

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-conditions/tramadol-addiction-withdrawal-37722-4.html#93

I did this because I don't want to keep two conversations going in two different forums with two different groups of people. Multitasking is just so difficult now without the evil tramadol in my veins. :(

In a couple hours I am going to try to run to the store to get some more soup. Although I feel okay right now I know deep down that I'll be a zombie once I'm out in public again. I am *really* not looking forward to that at all but I will somehow manage.

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by frankm12, Feb 16, 2009
Hi all, -T Day 10. For the life of me, I feel quite normal again. The last 2 nights I have had no problems sleeping at all, and have awakened feeling refreshed and ready to go. This weekend (days 8&9), the family and I went to the in-laws to visit, whom live literally in the middle of nowhere on a 320 acre farm-ranch-retirement piddling place, as my father-in-law likes to call it. Hillbilly could relate I believe, this place is about 10 miles NW of "town", and town means a congregation of about 1500 people. The nearest "populated area" is about 80 miles away, which has a populace of about 60,000. Put it this way, if you don't know exactly where you are going, you will NOT find it. The nice thing about the place is that at night you can see billions of BRIGHT stars, the Milky Way, etc. There is no light pollution impeding the star gazing, I have literraly never seen such a beautiful night sky. And the serenity, you hear nothing but the wind and the birds,- no outside world noises of any kind. It was quite refreshing actually. I thing I did notice, I had to shovel a bunch of manure and dirt that we were taking back to the house for my wifes' garden, and I noticed that I do feel much weaker physically, even at day 9. Though after sweating for a while and then showering, I felt much better, although ready for a serious nap. Now on Day 10 ,all I can say is that I believe I am through the physical part, Thank GOD!! Day 11 will be even better I hope, though I also went from great on day 6 to bad on day 7, I believe it was . Like you all(Fred,Emily, the rest) say here-there is no straight line wd'ing from the Tramocrap.

AnonGuy- Welcome and stay strong. I found it funny that you mentioned that you had 'quit' all other drugs and barely drank alcohol during the height of your Tramride, simply because when I read that I thought to myself"THAT WAS ME!!!!". Before my entrance onto the Tramo-Train, I pretty much drank a six-pack of beer and smoked a little bit of Marijuana about 3-5 nights a week AFTER work.Once I got on the train, beer didn't taste that good anymore and I guess I didn't need the 'medicinal' effects of marijuana, I had Tramadol!! That was at the beginning stage, and for about the next 9 months I barely ever smoked MJ OR drank Alcohol. Looking back now I find it so ironic that I see that drinking even a 12-pack of beer and going to work with a MAJOR hangover, I was so much more effective than I was when I felt 'perfect' after popping 6 of the 50mg Trams as soon as I woke up, right before my coffee and cigarrette(s). What a lying crappy drug Tramadol is! The further I get away from it, the more I see it. Wow.Hang in there, you'll make it. Seriously- if you're on day 5 and the shipment arrives(I went through that ritual weekly-though I got it from pharmacies who would FedEx overnight) do as Fred says and FLUSH  THEM away. Think about it, you want to throw away the hardest part of detox, days 1-4? You want another 5-7 years or so on the train? Think about how your brain will be riding the train another 5 years. Scary,huh? It damn sure was for me.

QUESTION- If ,in studies, Marijuana has been proven to be an effective medicine for conditions such as glaucoma, cancer pain relief, chemo-sickness relief, and so forth, and there also have been NO shreds of evidence of BAD side effects(except for munchies maybe) or any death in the result of the use of this plant, why the hell is it still illegal or atleast not de-criminalized??? I assure you it is the FACT that the Pharmaceutical Companies and their Lobbyist's AND even the Alcohol Companies and their lobbyist's KNOW that their PROFITS would plunge ATLEAST 30-40%, simply because Marijuana cannot be so easily controlled(giving them exclusive distributorships) because it is so easily grown in a garden. That and of course the misleading propaganda of the Nixon Administration about the 'evils' and 'dangers' of the 'bad weed'. For those of you who don't know, Nixon commissioned a study on Marijuana, and when the study came back and said that Marijuana was pretty much' harmless' and benign, Nixon didn't PERSONALLY agree with the findings, so he commissioned ANOTHER study with instructions on what should be found. "I am not a Crook!" Please, what a shmuck this guy was. It's been a rant, my apologies.It's just that from my years of MJ use, I never,ever, had one bad effect other than weight gain from munchies, and I never got out of control while thinking I was in control like with Tramadol. The fact is , while Stoned, I thought I was out of control while in fact in control. I guess I just got a little paranoid and careful. But ummm..., those Pecan Sandies cookies and milk sure were GOOD!!!LOL!

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by Shadetree, Feb 16, 2009
Hello everyone,

I was refered here by anonguy2...I was posting on drugs.com. But like he said it isnt very active. I was checking the forum periodically through out the day with no change. It seems very busy here, and that im sure will help me.

A little background:
This is my first post on drugs.com just to introduce myself...I comend everyone who has shared their story, its not easy and until now I have felt alone.

I am 28 years old married and a mother of 3. I have experemented with opaites and like the high I get from them, but unless you have a problem, they are pretty hard to get. I found out you can by tramadol online pretty easy. They are realatively cheap and they deliver fed ex right to your door the next day.

I had taken tramadol before here and there and liked the energy I got from them. I started out only taking them on the weekend. I would take them and clean all day. Play with the kids and get so much stuff done. I thought it was great.

Then I started taking it everyday. I loved going to work. I was excited about getting up and starting a new day. At first I thought of it as a weak harmless drug. But it is totally the opposite! After building a tollerance, one day I took 500 mgs in the morning and went to work. Just a slight buzz, so I decided to take 500 mgs more at about 1pm. I knew the onset was about an hour and a half so I would always schedule to get home or to work ( not to be driving ) Well this day it hit faster. I was driving home and the last thing I remember was following a bus and coming up to a stop light. I woke up upside down in my car. I flipped and totaled my car. I was soooo lucky no one was hurt! including me. I could of died! Not woke up! I have three beautiful children to think about... What the heck is wrong with me! God had his angels around me and thank goodness because I didnt even get hurt...Well besides whiplash. (Which serves me right)

I was taken by ambulance to the e.r. where they prescribed me none other but tramadol... When I got home I swore I would never take it again. I dumped my stash down the toilet and was done.

I wish it could have been that easy. I started going through withdrawls including severe depression and anxiety...resulting in panic attacks. So I got the rx filled and decided to taper off. No one knows about my problem. Since I have started taking the demon drug in December I have lost 20 lbs. which I am not happy about! I cant afford to lose any weight. I am about 5'5'' and 125 lbs. I have a high metabolism and cant help it. Anyway, I have come very close to having a seizure. I have had a couple really bad panic attacks and I sware if I would have given in I would of had a seizure. But I fought it with everything I had. I have been in a bad spot a couple times, getting hot flashes and almost blacking out...very scary! I am tapering off of it now. Im on day 3. I have read all the posts and have gotten alot of useful advice. I plan to taper off 1/2 pill per week. Which ***** because Im staying on the junk but cant afford to go through the anxiety and depression it causes.  I would be in a horrible state, and my family doesnt deserve that. My family and friends are very worried about me... but like I said no one knows.

I know I can get off of it myself and by the grace of God. I wont ruin my reputation to this s**t. It has taken enough of me already.

Im working out and exercising extra to get out of this hole I have dug myself into. Which is very hard because I cant get motivated unless I have the tram in me. I take wellbutrin for depression (well havent since I have been on tramadol) But plan to get back on it as soon as I can. I called a pharmacist to ask advice on a taper schedule, and he said that decreasing by 25mgs per week would be a slow sure way to deminish w/d symptoms. He also said I could start taking Wellbutrin again, and that would actually keep the tram in my system longer and I could be more aggresive with decreasing. I know what is in store for me... Im very famliar with my body and how it acts during depression. I have never had this much problems with anxiety and panic attacks though, that is still kinda new to me.

My dad almost died from an overdose to this stuff. You would think I would have learned from his mistakes. He is now on suboxone. And probably will be for the rest of his life as he is a full blown addict. Which I am to I get genetically Im sure.

This is such a dangerous drug I would tell anyone thinking about trying it to think again. I wasnt even on it for very long...two months and I cant get off of it without tapering. I am on day 8 now and down to 100mgs in the morning, and 50mgs in the afternoon, and 50 mgs in the evening. It is taking all I have...being at a low dose I havent been in the "danger zone" for a while and my brain trys to convence me "to take a little more this time". It will be fine your doing good tapering...just a little more this dose wont hurt. It a constant struggle but God is seeing me through it and givin me the strength to stay strong. I have stayed at the same dose for 7 days without giving in, now today is day 8 and a little lower.



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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
frankm12 --

Your first paragraph or two about feeling great physically and believing your "over the hump" (which is what I got out of it anyway) is so uplifting it almost brings me to tears! I mean you're at day 10? I am basically 1/2 way there and I am starting to get there already. Read on to find out how...

*****************************
ATTENTION EVERYONE
*****************************
I am back on the trama train! HAHAHA YEAH RIGHT! I can joke about it right now because I had a marvelous last 1 hour!

After I called in from work, either the w/d effects subsided a little bit and/or the vitamins/medicine I'm taking had kicked in and I thought, "Well, I'd better make that trip to Wal-Mart soon."

I turned my shower on really hot and closed my bathroom door to create that sauna-effect for about 5 minutes before I went in and showered. It was really, really enjoyable! It made me think, though, that I really couldn't do baths if I wanted to because my water tank is only 48 gallons (since I live in a 1 bedroom apartment).

I immediately got dressed and remember thinking "this is exactly what I did yesterday before I went to Walgreens-- I decided to go, showered, immediately dressed, and left." I said, this time is going to be different. I will MAKE SURE it will be different.

As soon as I started my car and opened the garage door (yeah, I live in a swanky apartment just so you know) I said to myself with a smile and holding back tears, "I can do this. I will do this. F**** YOU TRAMADOL!" and proceeded to the store.

About 1 mile into my 4 mile trip there I thought to myself: What better way to make this a good time than to just smile the entire drive to Wal-Mart! I immediately broke out in laughter and put a perma-smile on my face! I remember thinking to myself, "HAHA I am going crazy! But I loooooove it! Hahahahahaha!"

I did notice while driving that I was still a little zombified like yesterday but not quite as much. Plus, it didn't matter. I was forcing myself to enjoy this trip! I said to myself that I would not focus on anything bad.

Throughout my shopping I would walk by a lot of employees stocking. I would smile, nod, and say a little louder than usual, "How are you doing?" They must have thought I was either a lunatic or a crazy drunk, but either way all but 1 of them played along and replied back with cheer, too.

The older lady who checked me out at the register was really nice. She beat me to it asking me how I was doing. I said, "Not too well-- I have the flu really bad and had to call in to work!" She went on about "That's too bad" and all and joked around with me while ringing me up. Before I left she told me she'd hoped I'd feel better.

I put my smirk back on my face as I pushed my cart with 3 bags all the way to the other entrace of the store where I parked. While doing this, I walked by quite a few employees doing nothing but staring at me like I was some murderer. Truth be told, since it's cold I am wearing a big black jacket and black thick-knit stocking cap on and haven't shaved in days now and I'm walking around with a smile all the while it's only 9am! Haha, I thought-- I couldn't blame them for those looks.

I did start thinking on the way home: When I was at the register telling that lady I had the flu, it still felt bad to lie. I could be at work at that moment if I really, absolutely had to be there, but who would believe me when I'm putting on a happy face and talk as if everything's normal? Could that just be explained? I am unsure how my coworkers would take that; especially my boss.

At home it took me 2 trips to bring everything upstairs to my apartment because along with my 3 bags I also had a case of Gatorade. Normally I could get all that in 1 trip and much more, but I still have dramatically decreased energy levels and also much, much lower physical limitations. After the 2 trips up the stairs I got undressed and was feeling very short of breath and a very tiny bit light-headed from all that activity.

After I changed into more comfortable clothes I drank a lot of the orange juice I bought, put it in the fridge, and sat down to type up this report. The diziness subsided pretty quickly but I still feel a little bit in a fog/daze/zombie-state. As bad as yesterday? No, but it's still there.

I'm sure today's trip to the store and me enjoying it were a combination of things: I'm sure the w/d symptoms subsided a bit, I'm sure the vitamins/medicine helped a bit, I'm sure my positive attitude helped a bit, and last but not least I'm sure very limited sleep over the last 4 nights was another part.

Well, butt's calling me to the bathroom stool now so you'll have to excuse me. I really look forward to more natural highs like the one I just had though. It was awesome!

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
ShadeTree -- WELCOME! I am glad you came here afterall! I hope you get lots of help from the great people here like I have!

Before I make that trip to the bathroom let me say another thing real quick I forgot about---

Yeah, I know you can order it on US pharmacy websites where a doctor writes you a prescription and FedEx or UPS is at your door the very next business day, but they're expensive that way. That's why I had been using an international online pharmacy to get my tramadol for 6 years. At that store it's $135 for 400 capsules of 50mg tramadol so it beats the **** out of the US pharmacy websites' prices and there's no paper trail in the medical community to your name since it's not prescribed.

I refuse to post the name of this website I have used because this website is all about recovery and getting off the tramadol. Anyway, I'll bbl....

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
Not much activity today. I realize it's Monday but come on people, there's still tramadol zombies like me who only sleep 3-4 hours/night and can't get enough of this discussion each and every day!

Just kidding...

You guys have all earned your time away from having to revisit the trials and tribulations of tramadol addiction.

I keep re-reading older posts here because I am bored. The restlessness makes it uncomfortable to sit or lay down and watch tv or do anything except sit here at my computer doing more research and discovery.

Man... So many people report full-on 8-hour sleep by the 5th night-- Am I in for a treat tonight!?!? I say/ask that with as much excitement as that insanely excited dog in the "Beggin Strips" commercials on tv.

I have plenty of tv to watch with my TiVo but again, the withdrawal effects of restlessness keep coming back and when they do, sitting or laying down watching tv just annoys me as I can't get comfortable. But I must say, the latest episode of Family Guy from last night was absolutely hilarious!

I feel so bad for my puppy... She's only 4 months old and just wants to play, play, and play. When she doesn't want to play, she wants to cuddle and snuggle with me like we always have since I got her on January 1st. The problem is it makes me feel uncomfortable to have her lay on my lap (she's just a 1.5lb tiny chihuahua-- sweet little girl, too). And I haven't been in the mood to play like I used to, and for obvious reason.

The first couple of days of being free of tramadol and stuck in withdrawal I found myself telling her "I don't deserve you right now!" The first couple of nights she whined because I couldn't let her sleep in my bed because of my withdrawals. She's used to sleeping in her heated bed (spoiled? yes!) now and doesn't whine but I miss playing and cuddling/sleeping with her.

Again, today started off great and although I'm not on enjoying myself right now, I am still better than I was yesterday or the days previous.

I guess I'll give it a few hours before I check back again. I look forward to being able to help others the way current helpers are helping me. As a user and abuser of every drug in the book, if there ever was a drug that needed more attention and support for it's slaves it's Tramadol. I say that with 100%, undeniable truth.

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by Shadetree, Feb 16, 2009
Hey there Anonguy2,

I have thought the same thing about the activity...lol. I feel a little obsessed with checking all the time. I feel needy and the fact that no one in my life knows what Im going through, well I just need to vent. (Over & Over again)

Anyway, this morning was not that good for me. I was so exhausted even though I got 8 hrs of sleep last night. Im wondering if it has anything to do with crying. Sounds crazy but I watched the pursuit of happiness last night and cryed and cryed...

I got up this morning to do my normal work out/ weight training.  I was soooo not into it. I felt weak and tired. I pushed myself through it though, which seemed to make me even more tired. I got to work and drank a diet coke which seemed to help a little.

I have been researching taking wellbutrin with 5-htp and cant find anything that says not to. I called the pharmacist again, to ask...he too said I could. I am at a lower dose today, the only result in w/d symptoms I can tell is the tiredness. I know I will eventually be in the withdrawl boat I just dont know how bad or how long they will be.

I can take time off from work if I need too, but have some pretty pressing deadlines coming up in the next couple of weeks... and there is no one who could cover. I am the one and only graphic designer for the company I work for. : / So we will see... I will just make myself if I have to.

Hope tonight is good for you...ttyl

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by kevzx81, Feb 16, 2009
Shadetree-Anonguy-youre not the only ones ' restless at the monitor ' right now! I've been staring out the window, thinking on Freds wisdom and hoping for some weather that allows me some outdoor activity. Longing to do some gardening. Trouble is I dont have a garden, but a piece of land 2 miles from home. Cant get there and still be useful when I arrive in freezing weather.

Fred- Yes, I've been hoping again,thank you.

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by kevzx81, Feb 16, 2009
Shadetree- I've noticed that even a discarded candy wrapper can induce 'Tram tears'. Not that we dont have other reasons..... its both healing and exhausting but it does aid sleep which can be a boon in w/d. So save the sentimental movie til bedtime!


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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
Shadetree

Yep we're definitely in the same boat with checking for activity. Each time I check today and it says my last post was like 20 minutes or less ago it's like, "Really? It seems like it's been an hour..."

As I said above, the healed ones definitely deserve their time away from having to revisit the ****. I can't be thankful enough that they at least check up on here still every once in awhile.

On the family thing.... Oh my, I hear you on that one! As I've already said, I *HATE* not being able to come clean to my family about it. The lying about it being the flu and all just eats away at me from inside. Why? For the same reason you said-- No one to talk to about it with.

Man that ***** about your work situation. I have a super-important position as the head of a $100 million/year operation-- I can't go into too much more detail, but I'm fortunate in that I'm not the only one who can do my job at work.

If I hadn't ran out of tramadol before I found websites like this and the other one we've been on, I would have kept taking it until I could scheduled a good 10-14 days off of work. Really, no joke... And even then I'd be nervous that it wouldn't be enough.

I was feeling adventurous with the food intake again so I went to Burger King and ordered a big, fat, greasy cheeseburger with fries and a coke. I have not had beef, cheese, bread, fries, or soda in 5 days now. The *only* thing I've eaten besides soup, crackers, jell-o, applesauce, granola bars, has been some lasagna I microwaved last night. It was gooooood... But the burger and fries I just ate really hit the spot even more!

SURELY this is a good sign that I am both craving and eating greasy, calorie-ridden, fat-ridden, and carb-loaded food. Right Fred and/or Emily !?!?

Inside Burger King it was similar to being in Wal-Mart earlier today. I didn't force the perma-smile or grin like I did at Wal-Mart but I did feel that, if I had to, I could be working right now. It would be a rough day at work but I could have managed a really slow Monday today if I had needed to.

But luckilly, I didn't...

Tomorrow I am off and Wednesday I'm supposed to work again. Thursday I am off as well. At this point I feel like I have to go to work on Wednesday but I'm still 50/50 on the issue. If I do go in on Wednesday, I've got a good 3-4 hours of office work to do at a computer/desk which is a lot more bareable than the other days I work. Unless I really feel down in the dumps tomorrow and/or Wednesday early-morning, I will give it a shot.

Today's had a lot more positive in it than any of my previous 4 days and although my posts today have had a lot of cheer in them, I know I've still got a long road ahead of me.

I am glad tapering has worked fairly well for you up to this point. For me, it never worked. Then again, I am an all or nothing kind of guy. Back when I was 19-20 and I drank every single weekend, I would drink to get drunk and black-out. Then when I moved on to hardcore drugs like cocaine and ecstasy I would party and party and party until I passed out. That's just my personality. It also applies to other things, like chores around my apartment. When I do them, I do ALL of them. I will do the laundry, take out the trash, vacuum, do the dishes, etc. I am not a half-way type of a guy.

Well, anyway...

I am still hoping and praying I can get that great sleep that's come to a lot of tramadol warriors on this night. I doubt I'll get it but maybe that's just me trying to make sure I don't set myself up for disappointment. That's another thing with me (although you may not know it in my post-tramadol stupor on boards like this) is that I prefer to commit to less of something and overdeliver than the other way around (or however that saying goes... Stupid tramadol fog lol).

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by warrior3071, Feb 16, 2009
I have to be honest with you all and admit that I relapsed this weekend.  I took 6 tramadols on Saturday vs. my titrating schdule of 3.

I slept almost all day yesterday, Sunday, and I still feel the effects.  It was so hard to get up and get to work this morning.  Down to 3/day (from 15-20/day) , I was feeling more alive, the air was clean; i was noticing the birds and the blue sky ...

Last week was the first time I ever "joined in" on a community blog like this and it made all the difference in helping me stay strong.  All I can think is that by not staying connected Friday night ... I signed off and planned on getting back on Monday (today ...) ... I just set myself up.  I really thought I could get through the weekend by myself.  But I had already been having strong cravings Friday afternoon ...

Please waste your time telling me it's ok, don't give up ... I know all that, and I would appreciate it  -  I just KNEW better than I BEHAVED ... sorry, I just feel so stupid.  I should have been able to "stick".  somewhere between 3pm Friday and Saturday am I forgot that I was fighting a war and who my enemy was.

honestly, i'm just so tired of the fight .. i mean, the fight going on in my head.  I want to be off this stuff, but i'm also AFRAID of totally being off.  THAT right there is the truth.

Anyway, enough pity partying.  I am back, and trying to get 'angry' at the drug again .. to keep it an enemy at all times.

Page ~



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by warrior3071, Feb 16, 2009
I meant to say "please  DON'T  waste your time on me"  ... trying to laugh here; trying to find my sense of humour again ... (weak smile).  Lord, is it Friday yet ?



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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
Well the fact that you are back to the 3/day shows you still care and do want to improve. For me, I knew when the taper method didn't work once that it never would, so that's why I quit cold turkey. I ran out, sure, but I knew I was going to run out a week in advance but still kept up my daily 6-10 tabs without trying to spread them out longer.

A place like this really is the greatest hope for complete recovery I have found. That is, unless you want to call work and tell them you have to quit to deal with a drug problem, then check yourself into a rehab program for 30-60 days (or something similar like a detox program).

In all honesty that's not a horrible move. In many ways it requires more bravery than even I myself have. Me? I'm a coward. I couldn't do that. I am too proud of my job, proud of myself, etc. to come clean to work and family like that. Unless they catch me passed out on an OD or something like that, I don't think I could ever be that brave.

I am not in a great place to offer help at the moment as I am by no means out of the woods myself. I've got 5 days and 6 hours since I had a just a couple of 50mg tabs. I can recognize it's an accomplishment, sure, but I'm still learning how to cope and get through this experience myself.

I have never been so sleep deprived in my life. Even back when I did stimulants, I would still get at least 6 hours/sleep every night even if I didn't get to bed until 5am. So that's my first milestone I look forward to-- Getting my rest back. I am not even asking for the 8-9 hours of solid sleep I have gotten for years but just 6-8 hours of sleep and even broken-up sleep at that would be fine. At least then I could know if my physical ailments are more from the lack of rest or more from the tramadol withdrawals.

I have been taking 1 other thing now for 2 days I have failed to mention because I keep forgetting. It's called "Detox 7" it's a 7-day all natural/herbal detox regime I bought with a bunch of other stuff at Walgreens late yesterday morning. Google it and learn about it yourself if you want. I haven't read about it being used in any kind of drug recovery but I have read many good, positive things about it. I wasn't ever planning to buy it, either, but I just stumbled upon it yesterday and thought it's worth a shot.

The kit includes drink mixes and tabs. The drink mixes taste like **** but you only do those every morning.

Anyway, the bottom line is if you want to deal with your tramadol addiction all on your lonesome like myself and others here, then you're in the best place for support, strength, and courage. But again, if you're courageous enough to admit to your employers the situation, admit to your family the situation, and seek professional help then more power to you! Again, that's a great route to take and there shouldn't be any shame in it. Unfortunately for me, I'm too stubborn for that as I mentioned above!

Hang in there warrior... You still have the fighting spirit!

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
I just wanted to post another update ---

Man today just continues to give me good surprises. I am in the middle of another extremely uplifting mental/physical awareness and comfort to the point that I could almost pick up my phone, call work, and tell them I'm on my way in!

I know the tramadol fog will come again and especially when the sun goes down (that's when I fear the withdrawals the most-- There's just something sad about there being no sunlight, knowing the general public is sleeping and recharging their batteries all the while I have a pitiful restless night with little to no sleep yet wanting the same thing normal people are getting.

But I do not care right now-- Again, I am in a SUPER-DEE-DUPER mood right now!

To everyone out there struggling, trust me, I was among you reading posts like this saying, "Ha- Yeah right! I will never get to that point in only 5 days!"

YES.... YOU... WILL !!!

Hang in there! Have faith! Eat tons of chichen noodle soup and drink plenty of fluids! Take your vitamins (St. Johns Wort, B-12, B-Complex, Multivitamins 2-3x daily).

Force yourself to leave your home/house/apartment for a quick errand so you can guage your progress and actually see some siver lining for crying out loud!

RECLAIM THE CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE FOR GOD'S SAKE!

I have always thought how cool it would be to work for a rehab center and to sponsor people, help them out, etc. but I have never been in that place myself needed to do such work. Afterall, you can't be a junkie yourself and expect to really help others, can you?

I've been through dozens of drugs 100's of times in my life. The only thing I've been addicted to is tramadol. I could seriously help out others one day!

Maybe, just maybe, I will go back and finish up my master's degree in business and take some more classes and do a job like that I would love. My job right now pays great and has great people there but there's something to be said for doing something you love. Who cares if it pays less? You know....

Anyway, I'm just saying...

Unless this positive sense of well-being I have going right now leads me to an uninterrupted 8+ hours of sleep tonight, I will be online to chat with all who would like company.

I'll check in with everyone later! Keep fighting! Your life, your soul, your health is so worth it!

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by KC67, Feb 16, 2009
Day 8 – cold turkey  - Feb. 16, 2009

Hello all!  Yesterday (Day 7) was a little better than Day 6, but nowhere near as great as Day 5 was.  

Ah yes, the only thing predictable about Tramadol withdrawal is its randomness!  Which is why I will never take this drug again!  

I am a “Type A” planner, very organized, and prefer my little world to be neat and predictable.  Ha!  This is a very hard lesson for me, but I’m learning it – day by day – minute by minute – and I’m still alive to tell about it which I’m not sure I would be if I were to future-project (Fred we’ll talk more about this later in this post) and see myself 5 years from now still on the tram-o-train full steam ahead quickly approaching DEATH.

Today, Day 8, I find that I am very exhausted, however, I got 7 hours of sleep last night. Weird huh?  I know my body is still fighting to get rid of this poison so even though I got some sleep, I still feel lethargic, “weepy” and VERY anxious and irritable.  Also, I still have some mild intestinal discomfort and a headache – but nothing I can’t live with and nothing that all you Trama-VETS (how do you like THAT name, Fred and Suzi?) haven’t already warned me about.  

((Emily)) – I know you are tapering Klonipin, but are you concerned about anxiety once you are done?  Today I am suffering GREATLY from anxiety and I want to know if this is normal par-for-the-course-Day 8-withdrawal-stuff, or if I will ever be able to taper from my benzo (Xanax)? We have discussed in previous posts how we agree that depression/anxiety do NOT go hand-in-hand.  So I was wondering, since you too suffer from anxiety and are tapering from an anti-anxiety med, what is your plan for dealing with the anxiety in the future?  At this point, my anxiety is so severe I can’t imagine EVER getting off Xanax.  However, if something has worked for you (other than an antidepressant – because I have tried ever one out there and they make my anxiety WORSE) please share your plan?

((Kev)) – dear, sweet Kev – First of all I just want to begin by giving you a great big hug.  It sounds like something you probably didn’t get too often as a boy (I didn’t get too many of them either, but I’ll be darned if I’m going to let my deprivation inhibit me from giving them out now that I am an adult!  :o)).  I have to tell you that your honesty, your vulnerability, your anger, and your admission of having a “broken heart” are greatly respected and appreciated by me.  I know you took a risk letting out a boatload of emotions – but I believe that Emily’s journal is a safe place to heal and find support.   Suzi is right…you ARE loved here.  We are just a bunch of broken people either physically, mentally, or in my case…BOTH that are reaching out somewhat anonymously to someone else who understands – someone who has “been there”.  

Emotions - whether they be anger, grief, loneliness, or pure joy – make us human.  Even though I have been trying to NUMB my negative emotions for a large part of my life, I am learning to embrace them.  It we didn’t have these emotions and if we couldn’t cry or scream or rant, we would be RO-BOTS….or worse…TRAMA-BOTS!  I have had some very painful years in my life (2008 included) and I have experienced every emotion there is out there.  Yes, my Tram.use began with physical back pain, but it soon turned into a vice to numb my EMOTIONAL pain.  I was a non-feeling, non-caring Trama-bot.

This I know….when we deal with our emotions – when we allow them to come out – the healing begins.

Kev, your spider example was poignant and touched my heart.  I believe this spider example reflects your compassion towards others who are waiting/needing YOUR help.  There may be a part of you that sees yourself as the spider as well....kinda lonely and waiting for something to happen.  I believe you are a good person and that you have a lot of wisdom to offer to others.   I hope you learn how to tap into that gift because I think it will turn your entire world around.  There are countless people who could/will benefit from your wisdom.

((Fred)) – back to “future tripping” as you mentioned in a previous post.  Yes yes – I do that too.  I worry myself right into the future and it usually ends up with me envisioning everyone hating me and being angry with me for not getting everything I needed to get done – which then leads to me mentally beating myself up and telling myself what a "loser" I am at everything I try to do!  I completely relate to allowing my thoughts to take me to ‘dark places’.  This takes a lot of concentration and work, but I have found that I MUST take these dark thoughts captive.  If I don’t banish them, they consume me.  

Loved your cake analogy and thank you for your well-wishes of sleep.  As each day passes, I find that I am sleeping a little bit better – not as well as pre-Tram… but better.  To answer your question, Moses was chosen to LEAD the Israelites to the “Promised Land” but due to unfortunate circumstances, was not allowed to step foot in it.  Thank you also for your encouragement to continue on through the wilderness (whatever that may mean for each individual on this forum).  I KNOW that there is a beautiful heart-shaped cake waiting for me at the end of this wild wilderness journey!

((Emergee)) – you said it perfectly….”Day 6 *****!” and I have to add that “Day 7 and 8 kinda-sorta ***** too!”  

((Suzi)) – I too can relate to your feeling overwhelmed at the clutter in my house and my weight has always been a constant battle.  I am only on Day 8 and I have noticed that it has already crept up 2 lbs.  I am 6 pounds from the weight I would LIKE to be, and I am not happy about this sudden increase.  I am fairly confident that I have been subbing carbs for Trams because they comfort me.  But this has got to stop for me.  I will be a Tram-free 600 pound woman if I keep up this pace!  The only thing I can say is that RIGHT NOW – there are more important priorities – and I mean this sincerely – than a clean home, car, and a trip to the gym.  Your body (and my body) has been through a LOT in 3 short months (for you) and 8 days (for me).  You have kicked the *** of a powerful addictive med – and you have earned the coveted moniker of “TRAMA-VET”.  
For THAT alone you have earned (and deserve) a reprieve.

((Kes)) – Keep going !  You are doing GREAT to continue your taper AND be knocked out with the flu!  This is just a confirmation of your strength and determination to BEAT this drug!  You can do it and I hope you feel better soon.

((DontBelieve)) – Glad you got sleep last night – so very glad!!!!  I can almost handle ANYTHING except lack of sleep.  That is probably one of the worst side-effects to Tram.withdrawal.  Also glad you had Daytona 500 to distract you this weekend – distractions are so good when you are going through withdrawal.  I live exactly 1 ½ hours driving distance of Daytona and it is BIG here in Florida!  As for your Dad’s b-day and NOT taking Tram. I am here to tell you that YOU CAN DO IT!!!!  I had to attend a birthday party yesterday (Sunday) and wanted SO MUCH to just take a Tram.because my anxiety was so high and I was feeling pretty rotten (physically), but I thought about going through Days 1-4 all over again and all of the things I said (above) about learning to FEEL and EXPERIENCE my emotions again – so I didn’t do it.  I hope you didn’t either.  You sound like you are a very strong and determined person.  Keep it up!  You inspire all of us and make us laugh with your sense of humor!

((Frankm)) – Congrats on Day 10!  That is HUGE!  You speak the truth when you said (and I quote), “Looking back now I find it so ironic that I see that drinking even a 12-pack of beer and going to work with a MAJOR hangover, I was so much more effective than I was when I felt 'perfect' after popping 6 of the 50mg Trams as soon as I woke up, right before my coffee and cigarrette(s). What a lying crappy drug Tramadol is!”  

I felt the same way – I was invincible on Tram – was Super-woman, energetic, social, and fun to be around.  LIES! LIES! LIES!  
I agree with what you said on MJ.  When I used it in college, it truly helped with my anxiety and not only did I feel “in control”, but I didn’t let the “little stuff” get to me.  I don’t do it anymore because of it being illegal, but I sure wish it would be as legal as drinking beer.  The only thing to fear for me was Krispy Kreme donuts and pizza!  How harmful is that I ask you??? lol.

((Warrior)) – I understand your relapse and just want to encourage you to continue – don’t give up your fight against Tramadol!  Re-read all of the previous posts about how this drug speaks/LIES DIRECTLY to your brain and convinces you that you NEED to take it – when in reality, you are not as “with it” and not as coherent as you THiNK you are.  Feeling the PAIN of withdrawal is going to take a bunch of courage, but you are already posting on this site, so you obviously MUST have the DESIRE to free yourself from this poison.  You are doing great because you are honest and open….keep posting your feelings and you will find inner strength in the encouragement you receive from others on this forum and from deep within your heart.

((ShadeTree)) – your story could have been MY story.  I commend you on your wisdom to realize that Tramadol is a dangerous and addictive drug with severe consequences at high doses.  Thank you for sharing your story and do NOT feel as if you (and AnonGuy2) are posting too much.  You NEED to vent and have a safe place to do so – so post away and know that someone, someplace will KNOW what you are going through – because we have all experienced different (yet connected ways) of withdrawing from this terrible drug!

((AnonGuy2)) – Welcome and thank you for your story!  
Yawning?  Yes, yes – absolutely!  I find that I am STILL (even though I am on Day 8) both yawning and sneezing a LOT – although thank goodness it is beginning to subside.  I am LOL because I had almost the exact same experience at Walgreens while shopping for my ammo. to kick this withdrawal.  “Keep on keepin’ on” because the sleep deprivation DOES get better and (hopefully) gets back to normal – I’m not there quite yet, but hoping soon.    Yep!  You are right – Trams don’t like us to have sleep whether we are ON them or withdrawing from them.   Our bodies are doing what they are supposed to be doing – ridding our brains and bodies of the powerful chemicals that have affected our cells.  This riddance is more powerful than ALL the sleep aids put together – which is why so many people complain of the insomnia.  Our brains so desperately want rest, but the poison we call “Tramadol” must come out first.  So we must concede, fight, and realize that as soon as this chemical war within our brain cells is finished, we WILL have sleep again.  I am going back to work tomorrow as well and I think it will be a bit difficult, however, I think it is do-able.

Okay.  I think I have talked enough for one day.  My head & body are hurting – not terribly, but enough to whine about.  So I will close with my BEST wishes to ALL of you.  I consider you ALL friends and fellow TRAMA-warriors and I look forward to returning again and again to this forum where we are all connected.

Sincerely with love and hope,
KC

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
KC67 -- Great all-around post!

I am happy you also enjoyed your day 5 so much. Mine started off bad (read my notes on me waking up around 6:15am this morning and the bad thoughts I had).

But I'm still on a very nice and pleasant wave right now.

I am determined to not let any subsequent days put me back where I was 3-4 days ago. I will force a smile on my face with DUCT TAPE if I have to the next couple of days!

If you don't have a positive, hopeful mindstate then what have you got?

Well, anyway... It's true. I am really enjoying myself right now. As a matter of fact, the only thing bugging me right now is the fact that I am bored and want something to do. I have started cleaning my apartment and am about to finish it up.

If anyone wants to watch a great tv show there's a new episode of "Intervention" on tv tonight on A&E. I have seen every episode and have TiVo'ed it since it first came on the air years ago. Every single person they've featured I can relate to in one way or another and I'm sure you guys can, too.

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by Shadetree, Feb 16, 2009
Hey anonguy2,

Now that you mention your taking detox 7...that is probably the cause of your stools...That is what its suppose to do right? I think the foulness is normal in our situation...(tryin not to be to gross) lol

Anyway I have such a bad headache it is dull and behind my eyes. My brain is sayin " just take on more it will go away...you know it will." But Im not Im determined to get off the junk! Im ready to be healthy again. I have a very addictive personallity I guess. When I work out and eat healthy all the time... that is my addiction. The same with cleaning, work, ect. Im glad to hear your in such a good mood! Gives me hope:) I have to say the struggle is becoming tough. I argue with my self all day! Im thinking about counting out the pills, how many I need for this week and next and dumpin the rest. But that is another arguement...what happens if I go in to with draw on the week I have the deadlines and so on..,

(KC67) - I was a trambot myself. For a perfect example my husband and I seperated for a while about a year ago. We filed for divorce and all, anyway I started seeing this guy for a couple months. I worked with him for a couple years before hand. We were pretty good friends. Well since then my husband and I dropped the divorce and are working things out. This was all about 6 months ago. Well about 4 weeks ago, this guy committed suicide. Sooo sad, but it was like it didnt even phase me. I mean i thought it was sad and all, but I didnt cry. That is soooo not me! I am a very emotional person. So I know what ya mean. I dont want to be that person, I want my life back!

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by kes68, Feb 16, 2009
Anon and Shade tree - your posts made me smile - I completely get the "neediness"  So much of our lives have been a big secret - the suffering in silence ****.  These sites are fantastic - not only can we share about our addiction, but people understand, and can relate.  We get support, sympathy - you can almost feel the hug in some of the posts.
Sadly, it does sound as though many of us haven't gotten this for most of our lives.
This is a great place to pass the time - I know it seems to stand still when you are trying to c/t!  Keep posting - we all benefit from each others input.

Warrior - I can really relate to where you are at.  I am in a similar spot - I hate it, hate the damn drug, I hate that I cannot just give it up.  But - beating the hell out of ourselves for "failing" - just puts us more in danger for using more again.  This is a hell of a process, and we will all have our struggles through it.  I don't care that you slipped, I care that you were honest - this group will not help anyone who can't be honest, and I care that you are back.  The one thing I do know - if you quit trying - you will never win the war.  But if you keep fighting, learning from your slips, stumbles, and what the rest of us go through you will get it - you will win.

K/C, and all the rest of you who are battling through the first week or so of withdrawal.  Way to go! - you guys rock - the strength you are sharing with us!!  Good luck at work KC - you all hang in there.

I am still exhausted, but feeling a bit better - seems as though the flu has run its course.  I am down to 13 pills a day - I am sure I will see this week how I feel - now that the flu is not covering it up.

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
I finished cleaning my apartment and I feel very happy now. Despite not being the type of person to whip out the dusting spray or windex hardly at all, I am a bonafide NEAT FREAK and always have been. If you saw my apartment you'd think it's some demo apartment they show to all guests. I mean all my furniture is new, everything is so neat and organized. And nothing is laying out on anything! My friends who come over sometimes question my sexuality because I did such a great job at decorating the place. I am not gay by any means but I can see why they'd think that.

So I go outside for a second and I see a paper on my door. They're doing preventative pesticide spraying tomorrow in my building. *SIGH*

My Tramadol Hibernation will be interrupted!

To top it all off, they don't know I got a puppy so I will have to hide her, her beds, her toys, her dishes, etc. all in my closet or something. I have the $400 dog deposit but why should I have to pay that? It's ridiculously high and she's only a 1.5 pound chihuahua!

I have two options. I could take myself and her over to my mom's house a couple miles away and relax over there. But the thing is, I have no idea what time these guys are coming because the paper doesn't say. I think it's always before 2pm if I remember right.

My second option is to stay put get all my pup's stuff ready in my closet so when they ring the doorbell I just gotta throw her in there really quick. They're only spraying in the kitchen it says and I don't even have to leave or empty out the cupboards this time so I really don't got to worry about them going into my closet.

I think I will take option 2. I really don't care about them coming in for a few minutes to spray. If I was on withdrawal day 1 or 2 I would but right now I feel more than capable to handle human interaction.

I am still on a very good vibe right now mentally/physically/emotionally. I know I'm not 100% but I literally have no complaints right now and haven't for hours!

I am trying to remain cautiously optimistic about tonight, though. I don't want to think it's going to be an easy night and then post on here tomorrow how crappy I feel because I got my hopes up.

About my stools.... These black blobs with jagged edges stools that smell worse than anything in the world started the day before I started that Detox 7 stuff. So I don't think it could be that. I really don't know what to think of it, though and it does scare me each time I go and sit on the toilet. It also always feels like knives coming out of my butt because they seem so sharp and hard. This happens every few hours too so that scares me even more.

To those still struggling with the tapering method... I wish you all the best, I really do. I think this drug is so evil and unforgiving that only the strongest people on earth can kick it no matter which route they take. I would at least hope you all have plans that once you run out that that's that. If you will just buy more to extend the taper then what's the point?

Stay strong! Stay positive! If you can overcome this you can overcome ANYTHING!

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by emergee, Feb 16, 2009
you guys are lucky to have so many playmates withdrawing at the same time.  it almost makes me nostalgic for those long hours doing nothing but checking and rechecking medhelp.  ep was very sparse when i first jumped off.
i want to remind people who have restless legs to take at least a third of a bottle of hylands restful legs.  it takes a lot.  keep taking it every five minutes.
someone who asked about 5htp and wellbutrin-don't do it.  there is something called seratonin syndrome.

also ,  those who are tapering and expect the final c/t to be as bad as the taper- it isn't.  i don't know why,  it doesn't make sense,  but it is actually do-able and not what you are led to expect from the taper.  

and thank you, thank you,  bless you,  emily for posting your klonopin taper journal.   it makes me feel so much better to know that the lingering craziness i have is from that.   the dreads.  every single morning when i wake up.  it is so awful i try to go back to sleep.  it's like life is a sick joke and there is really really no point in going on because it is definitely stacked against you.   thank you for saying that word-dread.  and the shaking.

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by Shadetree, Feb 16, 2009
Hey emergee,

Here is what I have learned about wellbutrin. I works on your dopamine levels and not seratonin. Thats why is doesnt interact with seritonin inhibitors. I spent alot of time researching it, and even called my pharmacist. If anyone would know about drugs....they do. More than doctors in my opinion. I think Im gonna try it. Thanks for your input though...

And yes I feel fortunate to have so many to relate to what Im going through. It really helps! I didnt get what you said about the w/d after tapering...could you explain. pls

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 16, 2009
emergee ::

It is benefitial to have more people to talk to about what's going on but let me tell you that I consider you to be the lucky one as you have already been through it all. :)


Random Notes ::

Wow, it feels like the last post I made was a heck of a lot longer ago than that. Hmm...

OK, so get this. I was still feeling all good and happy and energetic so I called my mom just to let her know how much better I was feeling. She said she was happy and said her and her husband were just about to go out to dinner to this upscale restaurant with some of my favorite food. It sounded like a great idea, and I figured that even if it turned out to be not so great that it'd be my benefit because it would let me know my true progress to this point.

The food was great and due to our appetizer of chips with salsa/queso I was unable to finish my meal when it came. I had a healthy appetite like I did earlier when I ate at Burger King but I just couldn't eat as much as I planned. So here I am with the rest of my food in my fridge now.

But anyway, right after we got seated I realized how I felt emotionally and physically drained. I could hold great conversation and sound like I wasn't sick at all but inside I was a little bummed my energy level wasn't what I thought it was. Perhaps the cleaning of my apartment right before we went to dinner zapped what little energy I had. I still don't feel like passing out or light headed like I did yesterday out in public but it was more just an exhausted feeling.

I kept finding it funny how verbally you wouldn't think anything was wrong with me. It really was amusing me a little bit. I felt compelled to keep conversation going, too, because I was getting too fidgety and unsure of what to do if not being in a conversation.

I have had many people tell me over the years I have done tramadol that I am an "intense" person when it comes to conversations, work, etc. It's like I am always 115% focused on getting my point acrossed and/or accomplishing something and I have no time to stop and smell the roses or beat around the bush with things. All those people who have told me that have done so when I was high on tramadol. I can now say it's absolutely true-- When I have been on tramadol I am so driven, focused, and yes, intense, in everything I say and do. That may be a productive way to live when it comes to dealing with work, which is perhaps why when I first started tramadol it was only on days I actually worked. But it's no way to live, that way, always being so intense and focused. It's not healthy physically or mentally at all!

So I am happy I can enjoy simpler things now like meaningless conversation at a dinner table. Everything doesn't have to be done or said for an accomplishment or meaning of some sort... Now it can be done or said "just because" and what not. I really, really like that. I have a feeling the many people who work under me will really appreciate the new me when I get back to work. Don't get me wrong, I have never been a hated person by any means, but I can see where my manic obsession to be as efficient and productive as possible at all times and all costs would probably get on some peoples' nerves. I really look forward to lightening up a bit in that respect. :)

Back to the story though...

So we get back to my apartment (I didn't drive; they picked me up since my apartment is on the way to the restaurant) and they wanted to come upstairs and see my puppy. So we come up to my apartment and we all relax on my furniture and my pup goes from one lap to the other saying hi to them as they scratch her. I'm still in a great mood mentally but again, I feel physically drained in the energy department.

At least it's not to the point it was yesterday where I was feeling exhausted AND could barely stand without feeling I would pass out. I never feel that way anymore but I do notice I am very physically tired.

I'm still in a great mood as I have been for many hours now. The ONLY difference is I think I was getting a little too excited about my energy levels coming back.

BUT...

I would like to think that my low energy is simply because of sleep depreivation more or less. It makes perfect sense. It may even be a sign that I will, in fact, get great sleep tonight. We'll see...

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by Shadetree, Feb 16, 2009
Anonguy2,

Sounds pretty promising.) I hope so for ya.

About the buying more...I definatley wouldnt do that. I plan on being off before I run out. Then its going in the garbage!
Like you said whats the point?

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by Shadetree, Feb 16, 2009
On the other hand, my head still hurts sooooo bad. Nothin is touchin it. .Hope I can sleep. : ?

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by FinallyFred, Feb 16, 2009
Hellooo fellow tramadol warriors!

Shadetree, Anon, & Hillbilly, I TOTALLY get what those early days of withdrawal are like and how valuable this forum is to come to and work your way through those early days on.  I think that if you were to go back and read any of my earliest posts, I was pretty well glued to this thing as well as you all are, so keep em coming.  Like emergee so aptly said, "you guys are lucky to have so many playmates withdrawing at the same time."  I know she meant that in all ernestness.  The power of two or more sharing this (terrible) experience together is invaluable.

Emergee, you said something else that bears echong, "those who are tapering and expect the final c/t to be as bad as the taper- it isn't.  i don't know why,  it doesn't make sense,  but it is actually do-able and not what you are led to expect from the taper."    

IN ALL FAIRNESS, I never would have been able to do a right proper taper, like Roddy and Organica and others have done.  Hell, I could never even stick to my "prescribed' number of pills per day anyway, so the notion that I could taper PROPERLY is crazy - for me.  A "right proper" taper requires tremendous discipline...over a long period of time...and a razor blade to cut pills into quarters.  If anyone feels they can do that, by all means, give it a go.  Andy within a few weeks, you will know whether you can handle that sort of gradual elimination of tramadol from your life.

I NEVER had the self discipline to stay on my prescribed dosage early in the RX cycle.  For me, that's why I KNEW could never realistically taper.  Sound familiar?  

Here's a clue:  I ALWAYS took more than the "prescribed" amount, the DAY when my  refill came in.  Sound familiar?  Maybe not in the first few years, but at some point, I developed the NOTION that my life included a CELEBRATION DAY.  That day when I GOT ALL THOSE PILLS, when  I told myself, "I'll take a few extra "today", and make it up by taking less in a week or two.  Sound familiar? Only the "make up" never seemed to get done.  I never got it done.  I was addicted to these lousy trams.

We bought a 24 count BOX of bottled water yesterday while at the grocery store.  When we got that bottled water home, any guesses on how many bottles of water I guzzled down?  Ahhhh....um...none?  RIGHT.  I guess it's good to know that I am not allergic to the water, huh?  

Emergee's point (above) is worth considering;  to "those who are tapering and expect the final c/t to be as bad as the taper- it isn't."  If anyone who was taking say 10 pills a day drops their intake to say 6-8/day, they are going to feel withdrawal symptoms.  I know...I did that nearly every month toward the end of every RX cycle.  And frankly, THAT withdrawal was no better and no worse for me than the after I stopped this drug entirely.  

Why is this worth considering?  Because I know that there are people out there who HAVE reduced their "usual dosage" by a couple pills/day and are thinking that if a reduction by 2/pills/day hurts that bad, cutting it all the way would be ten times that bad.  The only thing I have to go by is my own experience here.  But in my own experience, like emergee said, c/t really isn't as bad as you think.  PLUS, you will begin to put hours/days between you and your last pill.

Cold turkey isn't a walk in the park.  Shadetree, Anon, Hillbilly, Warrior, KC and others here  bear witness to their withdrawal experiences.  But what made me decide to stop entirely, were the examples of others here, who had successfully gotten off this drug.

Today, I had a chance to get out in our yard and do some Winter pruning and clean up.  It felt good to progress a little out there.  An object lesson to MYSELF in being grateful for what I have accomplished rather than fearing what is yet to be done.  

Courage and Strength and LOVE to you all,

Fred

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by FinallyFred, Feb 17, 2009
Warrior Page,  I see that I didn't read up far enought tonight to find your post.  I'll echo what others have told you here, I respect you emensely for your HONESTY.  Like Kes said earlier, "I care that you are back.  The one thing I do know - if you quit trying - you will never win the war.  But if you keep fighting, learning from your slips, stumbles, and what the rest of us go through you will get it - you will win".

Do you have any idea how many time I swore this stuff off and every time with the best intentions?  We have all had slips some where along the line.  I could have one tomorrow.  And if I did, I know that this bunch would welcome me back, slip and all.  

You are GREAT!  You are GREAT! You are GREAT!

Fred


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by AnonGuy2, Feb 17, 2009
Good morning, survivors!

I fully expected a lot more activity than that since my last post some 10 or so hours ago. Wow...

I guess I should be happy I had a good night then, huh? :)

Last night I started to try to go to sleep sometime after 8:30pm. I kept trying to keep myself from beginning to try as long as I could, but the physical exhaustion got the best of me pretty easilly.

I actually fell asleep pretty easilly. Within 30 minutes (and 5 of the Hylands Restful Legs sublingual tablets) I fell asleep. I didn't fully wake up until 4:30am, or 1 hour ago. That's 7.5 hours!

I don't want to mislead anyone-- I did wake up twice, maybe three times, for just a few minutes and was able to roll over and fall back asleep. Only one of those times did I have to grab another 2 of the Restful Legs tabs.

When I woke up an hour ago I initially tried pretty hard to get back to sleep. I tried for a good 20 minutes probably. Here's why I stopped trying, though:

- My stomach was growling like it hadn't had food in months. I was so hungry (and still am- more on that later)!
- I did flirt with the idea of taking some more restful legs but...
- I figured 7.5 hours is something I should be extremely happy for- Not something I should be disappointed in. Why get greedy and risk getting more down on myself if, for example, I still failed to get back to sleep for another hour?

I sat up in bed, and turned on my tv. For some reason I have never enjoyed sitting up in bed- It's just never been comfortable for me (except on tramadol, of course). I only did this to try to wake up a little bit more and get my eyes to adjust to the lights.

I watched SportsCenter for a few minutes and decided I needed to get up and get something to eat.

I got up and microwaved the rest of my dinner from last night. I had been thinking about it the entire time I was trying to fall back asleep!

I finished eating it while I got on my computer to check out the activity here. Boy, it sure was delicious! Mmmmm.. I wish I had more. It barely made a dent in my hunger pains. Must... Get... More... Food!

I forgot to mention that I had some crazy dreams, too. Most of them had to do with being a kid again and going sledding out in the snow with my sister and mother. Then I had some dreams of us going on a vacation and I was dreaming of being on airplanes, being in airports, etc. All kinds of crazy stuff like that. I LOVE HAVING MY RIGHT TO DREAM BACK!

Well, it's time to take my vitamins and medicines. I'm happy I'm off work tomorrow. I cautiously anticipate going to work tomorrow. I can already tell I will be a little happy inside to face my work fears of working and not being high on tramadol but I can almost promise it will drag on, seem to last forever, and I'll come home exhausted. Watch... You'll see a post from me in about 36 hours having come home from work after tomorrow saying these exact same things!

Does anyone recall when I said that I like to under-promise and over-deliver? I secretly hope I'm dead wrong about working tomorrow, just so I can turn the experience into a positive one!

If I can sleep well tonight like I did last night, I really think my energy levels should have risen significantly.

Make no mistake about it, guys: I have learned that the main long term effects of quitting tramadol cold turkey are NOT physical. Long-term, the recovery's most difficult obstacles to overcome is experiencing and controlling your emotions, and learning how to mentally cope with things in combination with those emotions.

Here I had been, up until late yesterday, thinking the physical withdrawals were the hardest to overcome. I WAS WRONG! In the beginning, they sure are tougher to deal with. But right now it's all about the mental/emotional recovery.

I'll check up on everyone in an hour or two. :)

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by Shadetree, Feb 17, 2009
Hello all...

Sure doesnt feel like morning it is still dark. I finally got to sleep last night although my head was hurting so bad. Not just a regular headache...it was just different, more intense. I took tylenol to no avail, well it must have kicked in because the way my head felt there would be no way I could of went to sleep if it didnt....anyway I woke up with it this morning. Woke up around 4:30. All stopped up & cant breathe, sneezing like crazy, and a head ache this big (                      ) ha ha. I always think of the old ecedrin comercials...lol  Anyway, I feel like total s**t! Im wondering if it is withdrawls or I actually have a cold. I cant tell.

~Anonguy~ Glad you got some much needed sleep! Hope today is better than yesterday for ya.

Im considering callin in to work, today  is a slow day for us. I just hate to, you have no idea how much time I have missed over the past 6 months because of my kids. Then I had to go wreck my car (as mentioned in my first post) After that I was off work gettin eeg's done, and I wore a heart rate monitor for 48 hrs. All to cover up my addiction. I have good insurance through my husband and myself.... if that wasnt the case it sureley would  have been a different story. Sorry begining to ramble.

Well my coffee is done :) Will take a hot shower and hopefully be able to go to work... talk to ya soon...

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 17, 2009
Shadetree --

Wow, I feel bad for you. Although I have been talking about a LOT of positive stuff over the last 24 hours here, there has been negative, too. But I am trying my best to focus on the positive. It can only help, you know? I'm not saying you shouldn't discuss the bad stuff, I am just saying that I am in no means over it yet although I may make it seem so at times.

About your headaches... Excuse me while I ramble about headaches for a minute here....

Two things I have always had for the last 6 years are headaches and severe heartburn. I have them both all the time, no matter what. So much so that if one or the other is only affecting me a little bit, I don't notice it much unless I think about it. I have become numb/immune to mild headaches and mild heartburn so-to-speak (not really, but you get my point).

You know those heartburn commercials (haha, see- You got me started on commercials now, too!) where they would say, "If you experience heartburn more than 2-3x per week, you may have acid reflux and should see your doctor" ?? Well, those commercials would make me laugh my butt off. Why? I have heartburn 24/7/365 no matter what I eat or drink, when I eat or drink, or how much I eat or drink. It simply doesn't matter-- Bottom line! I think it's safe to assume I have acid reflux, that's for sure. I haven't had health insurance since 10 years ago when I was a minor and living with my mom, and that was before the heartburn issues. Again, the heartburn started when I started tramadol and yet the tramadol has always made me say to myself, "Yeah I should sign up for health insurance and get this looked at. On the other hand, I'll just do it some other time." So the tramadol made me keep putting it off and off. Maybe now I can finally have that looked into...

The headaches also started, as I've already said, back when I started tramadol use. I have them all the time so unless they're pretty bad, I just ignore them.

I have some possible short-term advice for you on the headaches. I stress "possible" and you should only try it at your own risk because it's not the brightest thing to do. When I get really bad headaches, I will take two tylenols, 4 advils, and 2 aspirins all at once. They either get rid of my headaches or reduce them by 80% every time when I do this. I have been doing this for a year or two now. I have huge bottles of generic aspirin, ibuprofen, and acetaminophen (aspirin, advil, and tylenol of course) in my medicine cabinet-- We're talking bottles of 400-500+ of each.

Again, this is NOT a wise thing to do- Combining the 3 most common over the counter pain medications on the market. But it has worked for me. IF you do try it and it works, I would ONLY do it for the worst of the withdrawal days. I have never experienced any known issues from taking all 3 at once and although I've been doing it for a year or two, it's only been a few times a week.

Hopefully when I'm fully recovered from tramadol I will be able to address these heartburn and headache issues appropriately. Heck, maybe they'll even subside or go away!

As for your issues with sneezing, I suggest Loratadine (generic Claratin that's a TON cheaper). Even if you don't have allergies, it helps a LOT with sneezing. I have taken it every day of my recovery and only sneezed maybe twice a day if not once.

I have also been taking some other vatamins and things, too. B-12, B-Complex, multi-vitamin 2x/day, Saint John's Wort 3-4x/day, and Quercetin 2-3x/day.

Quercetin is a bioflavinoid. It's not a drug but rather it's something found naturally in fruits and vegetables. I have been an allergy sufferer for over 15 years and I found out about Quercetin about 1 year ago and it's AMAZING for allergies or allergy-like symptoms. I have even turned several family members on to it who have allergies and they, too, swear it's the best thing for allergies they've ever taken. I wish I had known about it back when I first got allergies it's so amazing!

I am sure all this stuff I have taken has helped me a lot in my recovery but even I have to remind myself that there is no "swallow-pill solution" to the situation I am in. It's thinking that way that got me into this horrible place I've been for years on tramadol in the first place! But it is still a cold, hard, fact that vitamins/minerals/etc. can only HELP the recovery process and the mental boost they can give to your outlook and hope is amazing.

Hang in there, Shadetree, we'll get through this together!

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by dontbelieve, Feb 17, 2009
howdy there all...sorry i have been not typing for a while but i have been reading...i think i messed my neck up worse somehow this weekend and my left arm/ hand keep going numb and the only real way to make it stop is more tramadol??..NO CHANCE!!!! I would rather do my  own surgery with a spoon...If i put my arm over my head it starts to feel better...

I am feeling good all things considering...I feel like I can have intelligent conversations...I have alot more energy....I even made it to the Bass Pro Shops today to buy a new fishing reel...and beat my brother at the elk hunting game with one arm....i want to be around my family again which is a big change....

I am still sneezing like i have a cold...and having trouble sleeping...hince I am still awake...but in general...feel like a new man...day 8 may bring new peril but i have hope it will be as good as the last two days...

ANON: man i have been reading your posts...damn seems like you have been through it..I am usually a night owl in here but havent been up to typing lately...but i have to tell ya...you are almost there...keep it up man...I love that show intervention...

ShadeTree: welcome aboard! I have to tell ya I am with  FRED here. I dont think I could have done the taper...I had to just stop...I was constantly running out early and would suffer for 2 days and then get my refill...of course it made me feel "better" for the time and i promised my self i would not do that again...2 weeks later i would be in the same boat again...for me I had to go cold turkey...its been almost 8 days now and I am feeling like me again....much respect for being able to taper...stick with it...I personally believe the devil is in that tramadol...they should have called it little white devil...

Warrior: everyone has a setback sometimes...I got to admit I really had those thoughts on day 4....the good thing is you know it was a setback and now you can move forward again...It would be crazy for anyone in here to chastize you about a slip...thats the great thing about this place...we all know where you are coming from and where you are heading...and in the end when you are sitting here reading someone elses post of how they slipped up you will be able to relate and give your story to someone else.....you will succeed...

Fred:/ Emily : keep spewing your infanite wisdom. Somehow in your advise, i find something I can use to help me everyday....

I really have to cut this short one handed hen pecking typing is taking a long time...

so to those i missed i am sorry, but keep it up...minute by minute...

one last thing...

wifey is starting a family tree...and contrary to my belief we are not related in any way to the Sopranos or the Clampits?!

still not sure about the Dukes Of Hazard...

I also have not been razor shaving my head the last few weeks...especially during the withdrawl days..( i wouldnt look right with one ear) and i have begun to notice as i get hair how many grey ones are mixed in there!? when the hell did i get old?! so i am choosing to also blame this on the tramadol!!!  

It is now a fact: TRAMADOL GIVES YOU GREY HAIR!!!!!

HILLBILLIES BELIEVE IT or not......


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by kes68, Feb 17, 2009
Okay - one quick question - I was just reading through the physical symptoms some of you have had while using Tramadol, and while withdrawing. (I suspected the grey hair thing - thanks for the confirmation db!!)

I have not heard anyone mention ringing in the ears.  I have had it non stop for over 4 years - it seems to me to coincide with my tram use.  It is so loud at times it drives me crazy - I cannot be in a quiet place - there has to be some background noise or I will go crazy.

Anyone else?  

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by roddy132, Feb 17, 2009
Hi Kes
          Yes TINNITUS is a very common side effect of painkiller use.  I am the same since starting on Tramadol i have the same problem, a hissing or ringing sound sometimes soft and sometimes quite loud.

Take Care Rod

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by Shadetree, Feb 17, 2009
I took a hot shower for quite a long time ( I ran the hot water out) it was nice. I drank my coffee while in the shower and I could breathe again. I ate a bannana and took my vitamins before getting in... By the time I was done I felt 10 times better.

By the time I was out of the shower... the kids were up. The race was on! Three kids, three different schools... While getting ready for work I was sweating very bad. So im convinced Im gracefully going through withdrawls. I waited to take my first dose, Im putting it off by a half hour every couple of days... But as soon as I did all symptoms disappeared. Escpecially my head ache. Gone for the moment but it will be back! Im sure of that. I packed plenty of ib profen, ecedrin, & tylenol. Thanks for the advice anonguy, My dentist suggested that to me before for bad tooth pain. I will try it if I need to. I really wish I could just quit cold turkey. I would feel the withdrawls would be a much deserved consequence to what i got my self into especially after totalling my car.(kinda like that is what you get)  See i didnt have any ailments to justify taking the tramadol, it was strictly recreational. That is strictly being hard on myself! I would never say that to any of you going through w/d after quiting cold turkey. I wish is would be easier for you. I hope no one takes that the wrong way! But on the other hand I wouldnt be able to take the time to get better either. To many people depend on me. If Im not well my family isnt either. If Im not productive and taking care of my family...no one would.

Im glad to report I have gained 8lbs back...whoo hoo. I thought my clothes were fitting better. ) The company I work for was closed for the dec/jan months. So now that were are back open, we have a chef that cooks for the office staff. So I have food whatever and whenever I want. That helps! Im such a hog...lol Seriously I get teased about it all the time.

Anyway, this is day 9 for me and im down to 4 pills aday. May seem like alot still but it is alot less than I was used to.
I have my head in the game, & determined more than ever to beat this thing. Im so glad you refered me here, anonguy.
And for what its worth, you are doing great. You have really helped me out during the past week and through your posts. Thank you very much for the support. I really feel like I have found a friend in the same situation as me...

Thanks to everyone for the welcome...and yes hillbillie I agree with you, it should have been called the little white devil pill.  

kes68- about the ringing in the ears... that happens to me ocassionally. But my ears hurt most of the time, Like I have an ear infection. Only my left one though, I know its the tram because it goes away after i take it.

For the most part I feel pretty good today. I made it to work so, other than the sneezing...I think its crazy but read someone had the same thing...funny. I will definatley try your suggestion anonguy, if it keeps up.

Well gotta go for now...talk to ya soon.)

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 17, 2009
Showers really are much more enjoyable, that's for sure. And I totally agree about feeling like a million bucks when I get out, too.

I am trying to stay busy doing things today. It seems tough because it sounds like a good idea to do one thing, so I do it, then in the middle of it I start to concentrate on negative thoughts like worries of having to go back to work tomorrow. Plus it's hard to concentrate 100% on things without noticing where you still need to get better in recovery, if that makes any sense.

I do kind of look forward to going back to work in a goofy sort of way. It will be day 7, which is huge. It seems like the last 6 days have went by so fast, but at the same time it seems like it's been ages (many years at least).

I think I am just wanting to proove to myself that which I already believe-- I can make it through work now, and with that, everything else will fall into place gradually.

Yeah, that's the ticket!

I really can't wait until, oh about 30 hours and some change from now when I am home from work tomorrow. The very first thing I will do when I walk in the door (after I say hello to my beautiful baby girl puppy, of course lol) is jump on this site and report how my day went.

If the day goes good, then I will act as inspiration for everyone else here in reporting how becoming a functional member of society and being productive at work again is totally possible after just 1 week's time. :)

I can only hope and pray it works out that well. Right now, I see it as entirely possible.

I look at keeping myself busy today as good practice for being at work tomorrow. I am trying to train myself to focus on accomplishing something, very similar to how I was last night. I think it's great exercise while in recovery.

It may sound stupid, but since I have no kids or family to tend to like ShadeTree, it's easy to get caught up in my emotions and the fog of recovery. Like last night, I made myself clean my apartment. Today I am going to wash my bedsheets and comforter. I would love to walk my dog but she's too tiny to put a leash on without it throwing her off balance too much.

I like to consider it mental rehabilitation which helps to provide MOMENTS OF CLARTY!

I was reading a magazine earlier in the bathroom after waking up and I read something about a book of addiction/recovery called "MOMENTS OF CLARITY" and I thought, oh my, those are some powerful words!

I think I'm having a moment of clarity. What do you think? :D :D :D :D :D

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by warrior3071, Feb 17, 2009
(((Fred))), dontbelieve & Kes ~

Congratulations on your continued sobriety from tramadol... hard for me to imagine I can have # days free...still working in that direction.

And thank you for encouraging me not to give up after relapse.  Don't feel much like a Warrior again (yet) ... Immediately after posting yesterday, I wanted to 'un-post' it.  I was nervous no one would say anything ... like 'when people ignore the elephant in the livingroom" analogy.  Anyway, I'm still here and haven't given up.  Aiming for 0/day starting this Saturday ...

My contract at Lockheed has been extended another month - great news .. and a bit surprising since I went a little nuts over the last month.  Dropping from 20 to 3 pills/day in less than 12 days.  I missed a LOT of work, showed up but left early.  You all know the drill.  

I was glad to read that reaching 0/day is not as bad as I find myself anticipating.  I'm most troubled about going back to my usual depressive personality.  Been that way (though not ALL the time) since I was about 8.

But I must remember that I've had PLENTY of days ON tramadol when the recurring thought was "I wish I was dead."  Anything other than THAT has to be an improvement... (weak smile ... :-)

God Bless ~ Warrior Page

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by Shadetree, Feb 17, 2009
I have totally crashed hard. Im so exhausted...My nose is stopped up and I cant breathe!  Along with one ear...(cant hear)I think I really might have a cold. Unless these too are symptoms of withdrawl....anyone know?

Im thinkin about going home early, but I only have another hour so ill probably stick it out. If I did leave early, I would just have to turn around and get the kids at 2:30. I wanna go to bed.(

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by EmilyPost, Feb 17, 2009
((((Warrior)))) Icky! Oh you poor lady! "I wish I were dead." GAH!!

That's the creepy line that Tramadol put in my head also. It's the pan free-ness of supposed death that we're trying to get to.  That thought is 100% Tramadol.

Coping mechanisms have to exist. That thought is the WORST coping mechanism known to MAN!

*beats your invasive thought to death while beating my own*

There's a great book on Suicidal Ideation.

"How I stayed alive while my brain was trying to kill me."

Taught me to make LISTS of actually useful Coping Mechanisms.

Real Warriors can only talk to another Warrior about the Battle ... right? So you are talking!

Shadetree that all sounds like Tramadol withdrawal.

(((hugs for all)))

Love and Healing,

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by tramhater, Feb 17, 2009
OK. so I am for the first time coming to the realization that I am addicted... I was taking 8 50mg pills per day..... I am now on 2 50 mg pills for the last two days... I am tapering off very quickly I have 14 pills left.. what is the best way for me to use them.. so my body is going through the least pain possible! Emily you seem to be quit an inspitation to everyone.. thanks! SO what to do and how do  Ikeep up with this blog thingy?? I sound stupid but I am desperate and ready to have my life back.. I am on ambien so I do get good sleep... that will be the next addiction to handle... this one first!

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by tramhater, Feb 17, 2009
Ps my name is Heather and I have been on tram for 1 year.. I am so scared and need help.

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by 1113, Feb 17, 2009
man... you guys are rocking....    

i am still rocking along on 1 pill a day.  my planned quiting day is just around the corner......  at which point i will be jumping off for good.


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by AnonGuy2, Feb 17, 2009
Heather, welcome!

Hang in there... The fact you've posted here not only shows that you have recognized you have a problem and admited it, but it also shows you are ready to face that problem and overcome it.

So I have to hand it to you in getting this far. It really IS the most important step.

14 pills isn't much, of course... If you could manage 2 in the morning, 1 in the afternoon for a couple days it wouldn't be bad. But many people, like myself and Fred, just can't taper-- It doesn't work. When we do something, we do it 100%. There is no 'tapering" in any aspect of our lives. Well that may be stretching it for Fred but I know it's true with me.

I hope you don't have any short-term access to more pills when you run out. That is single-handedly the most obvious way you could fall back into your addiction, of course.

If you have a job or something just as important in your life, I'd be prepared for not being able to work for 4-5 days beginning with the day you take ZERO.

Keep us posted, we're all here to help and we've all been in a situation identical to yours more or less. Myself, very recently! If I didn't stay active on this website, I know I would not be in the good place I am today with my recovery, that's for sure.

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 17, 2009
EDIT ::: When I said "If you could manage 2 in the morning, 1 in the afternoon for a couple days it wouldn't be bad" I DID NOT mean that the withdrawal wouldn't be bad. I meant it wouldn't be a horrible idea, basically.

I'll see everyone later this evening! I won't bore everyone with all the details but I've had some really good things happen out in public while I ran to the store and some other good milestones in recovery, too. So I'm still doing good, more excited about working tomorrow than I was earlier.

As I've said since day 1, if I can work and be productive at my job then then this addiction is 100% OVER and NEVER stands another chance of coming back into my life! EVER!

How am I so sure? It's the *ONLY* thing giving me any anxiety anymore (the thought of going back to work). I am so excited for my triumph tomorrow that I may have trouble sleeping! TAKE THAT, TRAMADOL!

KA-POW!!!! IT'S A KNOCKOUT!

AnonGuy2 WINS! TRAMADOL LOST! AnonGuy2 IS THE NEW, UNDISPUTED CHAMPION OF THE WORLD!

Hahaha, sorry about all that. Just imagine how excited I'll be when that actually happens 26 or so hours from now? >:D

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by EmilyPost, Feb 17, 2009
Hi Heather and Welcome.

The pain you will feel is nothing compared to actually being on Tramadol.

I'd taper down, two pills a day and then cold turkey. No pressure to keep up. Post when you can. Let us know how you are doing. The cold turkey part of Tramadol is disabling to varying degrees. Generally we're talking about a few days to feel bad and then freedom!

Love and healing,
Emily

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by tramhater, Feb 17, 2009
So I am so anxious to start this detox that I have thought of flushing the remaining 13 or so pills that I do have. Do you all reccomend it? I am a stay at home mom of a 1 and a half year old... I feel so bad because he will be watching alot of Tv the days that I do not feel well.... I have already noticed the feelings that you all have talked about and it is just because I have tapered... UGH! THE FEAR IS AWFUL and taking up all of my thoughts for the past 5 days! I do have access to more pills because I have refills... but I just woke up basically last friday and said "I know this isn't right... I feel best right after I take the tram." I told my loving husband what I was facing and all the fears I faced... then I found your website and read it to him... he is going to be there for me at his best... he will be home to take my son, and I will rest.. it is just the day time that I have to worry about... so you all suggest starting on the weekend so I have my husband??? I am having a hard time gathering all of the info. about the supplements and what the best energy booster will be? Can someone please give me a grocery list?? LOL I Am a "spell it out kind of person." Thanks for your sight EMILY! We all owe you... everytime I tried to google withdrawals... websites for how to get them overseas came up! It pi**ed me off so bad,  Well I will stop babbling... Emily I will need any advice that you have.... Thank you so much!!! You are awesome.
UGGGHH! Scared yet excited....

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by EmilyPost, Feb 17, 2009
If it were me; I'd start on Thursday Night. That way w/d will be covered Days 1-3 ...

Switch fear into anger. Anger is useful. Fear; not so much. At least not n my case.




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by Shadetree, Feb 17, 2009
Welcome Heather!

I too am in a simalar boat. If you read my past posts...I have been here for about a week. It is has been such a blessing!

I contimplated on flushing mine too, but the fact is I have a family and that just wouldnt be fair to them. They depend on me and if i dont take care of them no one would. My husband works and wouldnt be to do the things I do. Im tapering right now. I am down to 4 pills a day, which is alot better than before. And Im getting stronger every day. About the grocerie list, anonguy has a pretty good one.

No one in my life knows so im on here periodically through the day. Any thing you could do for your health right now will help you greatly...( working out, drinking lots of water, taking vitamins, and so on ) has helped for me anyway. Im still going through withdrawls, but they are not as bad as they would be if I went cold turkey as you can read in the others posts.

Just decide the best way for you to get off whether it be cold turkey or taper.... Make a plan and stick to it. The people here are great and will help you along the way. Does your family know? Do you have or ever had problems with depression? Write and ask questions as much as you need too. Everyone is here for you. you can talk to me anytime.)

Talk to ya soon, god bless.

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by tramhater, Feb 17, 2009
NO! I have never had issues with depression. And yes just my husband knows... no one else really. I hope that I can do this all this weekend... well the hard part either way. I did make an appt. with my doctor tmrw and decided to tell him everything. I want to see what he says.. UGH! I just want this to be over! THANKS for all the feed back already! I needed it today and I was crying and fearful of what would happen. I hope this does turn to anger because fear is weaker and anger is stronger. atleast that is what seems to be the ongoing saying here. I spent hours trying to communicate with myself and try to convince myself that I was just being paranoid, and that the doctors knew what they were talking about and it was fine if I was on tramadol for the rest of my life.. then I just realized I am 26.... yeah right... I do know person that is on tram and says, "i don't care if Im addicted... it is what the doc says is best!" How much trust do we put into our doctors just to add another 0 to their pay. I have so much resentment right now that I think I might go in my doctors office nostrils a flaring! SO EMILY.... Do you feel normal again? Is it still an everyday battle?

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 17, 2009
Hello, hello again! I just got done making my bed (I was so tied up doing other things that I forgot to get my sheets out of my laundry room and make my bed. But I finally did it!

My physical/mental/emotional high right now is unbelievable. I feel on top of the world! I re-read what I typed earlier about me "knocking out" tramadol and it just overwhelms me because I still feel the same way!

I still have the occassional episode of anxiety and really dark thoughts. Heck, even today I have. But when it happens, I do everything I can to stop thinking about it. I will, as I've said before, find work to do: laundry, dishes, vaccuum, heck I even took a second shower today when I was feeling some anxiety!

To Heather --

Emily and Shadetree have given great advice on whether to taper or not. Honestly, in your situation I agree with Emily that you should wait until Thursday night or Friday morning for your last dose. And make it a small one. Then be prepared for WAR! My last dose was on a morning at about 8am and it was a TINY 100mg. I was already withdrawing by 1pm, no joke. For the last 6 months I had been taking up to 6 at a time and 3 times a day. That's 300mg 3x/day.

The fact your husband is not only aware of the situation (since you had him read this stuff here) but is committed to helping you recover is HUGE.

Shadetree is in a super tough spot and I envy her strength a lot. I couldn't imagine having to battle this addiction while still juggling everything she has to. Sure she's tapering, but at the low doses she's on I think she's basically getting acute withdrawal symptoms every day! Talk about tough! There's no way I could do that...

As for a shopping list? It's pretty extensive so get a pen and paper:



***** Hylands Restless Legs
I found out about this from others and even though I still haven't found it "amazing", it does help pretty well. Buy 3-4 bottles, though. It was about $7/bottle of 50 at my Walgreens. The label says you will need just 2-3 of them every 4 hours or so but that's false. So get a couple bottles/packages. Take that suggested dose and if in 15 minutes you still have issues take that dose again. It took me 3 doses last night at one point.

***** L-Theanine
This is a stress compound found in green tea and it's use is for stress relief and calming down (sleep).

***** Melatonin
This is used to help maintain regular sleep patterns. I know tons of people who swear by it and I'm one of them-- I've used it for sleep every night for the last 8 months or so. I would only take it at night as I personally hate being drowsy during the day.

***** 5-HTP
This is a precursor to seratonin, which is a neurotransmitter. Tramadol plays on seratonin receptors in the brain. 5-HTP helps boost the seratonin levels then which helps greatly with depression, mood, and your sense of well being. I have taken it off and on for many years to boost seratonin and I haven't really ever noticed anything from it. BUT, it is supposedly much more effective with amino acids such as L-Tyrosine. My bottle of 5-HTP says to take 1 daily (it's a extended release version so that's why) but I still take it twice daily.

***** L-Tyrosene
This is used for overcoming cocaine and opiate addictions. It's an amino acid and it's found in all kinds of foods from soy to chicken, etc. I never bothered to purchase this, mainly because Walgreens doesn't carry it and I haven't made it to the other side of town where I know there's stores that sell it.

***** B-12
Has all kinds of vitamins, amino acids, etc. that aide in a healthy immune system/body. Take once daily.

***** B-Complex
Similar to B-12 but different formulations. Take once daily.

***** Saint John's Wort
A lot of studies claim this helps greatly with depression. It is also known to help prevent infections, etc. Take 3x/day. This reminded me of my tramadol regimine as I would dose tram 3x/day too!

***** GABA
This is an amino acid which helps with relaxation and sleep. It is also known as a "balancer" of the brain. This is another item I can't find at supermarkets or Walgreens so its another item I do not have.

***** Vitamin D-3
The third item of my list you need to go to a specialty store like GNC or an herbal shop for and thus I do not have and have not been taking, From my understanding, this is something the body absorbs via sunlight and supposedly that's why you can feel "down" or "unhappy" during the winter (less sunlight). It makes sense, but we all know very well about crazy claims. :)

***** Inositol
This isn't a vitamin but it's supposed to help with the absorbtion of nutrients by the body. It's also the 4th item on my list I have not purchased and do not have.

***** Tylenol / Advil / Aspirin
Get a large bottle of each of these. Buy the generic brands (such as Equate which is Wal-Mart's brand) as they cost a LOT less. These will be your best friend for headaches. As I've already stated, I sometimes take all 3 to get rid of mine. If you take advil or aka ibuprofen, take 4 of the 200mg tabs since a prescription dose of it is 400mg, anyway, so it's safe and more effective, too!

***** Quercetin
This, as I've said before, is a bioflavinoid that is found naturally in fruits and veggies. It's a miracle supplement for allergies or allergy-like symptoms (which does happen in tramadol withdrawal). I love this stuff! My bottle says take 2-3 tabs twice a day but I have been taking 3 3x/day.

***** Multivitamins
Go buy a large bottle of Centrum (or whatever you prefer) multivitamins. Instead of taking 1 daily as the bottle recommends, take one twice daily-- Once in the morning, once in the late afternoon or later (like around 5pm).

***** Water/Gatorade
Buy a case of bottled water and/or Gatorade. I bought both. Gatorade is better than water as it also has electrolytes, sugars and such which helps the body recover. It's very important to drink 20oz of fluid every few hours so whenever you think about it, grab a bottle and take large sips. Keep a bottle by you at all times.

***** Soup
Stock up on some soup! My favorite: Progresso Chicken Noodle varieties. Fancy cans of soup like this are so much more tasty and filling than regular old Campbells though Campbells does have some higher quality varieties of their soup to compete with Progresso and they're just as good! Buy 10 or more cans. The first 3 days/nights I literally couln't even think about eating anything except some hot soup. By day 4 I was able to eat anything. I never threw up in withdrawal but nothing but soup sounded good my first 3 days. Eat at least 3 cans/day and if you can't sleep at night, make a bowl. It helped settle me down and kept my stomach full, too, which is important.

***** Crackers
You can get some saltine crackers or some flavored crackers of your choice from the store. You could be different but me personally I could only eat soup and crackers my first 3 days.


You no doubt know about all the side effects of the withdrawal (sneezing, sweats, chills, restlessness, headaches, depression, fatigue, etc. etc.). Just prepare yourself for every negative side effect you can think about. And when it comes, try to stay positive! Take hot baths or hot showers. I even tried laying down on the couch instead of my bed the entire time I couldn't sleep. There is no "scientific" way to deal with it, really... You've got to try to find what works for you.

Anything else, you can always post here. Lord knows myself, Fred, and countless others have rambled on and on to themselves. It helps, it really does!

By the way, those 4 things I said I never bought--- They seem like they could definitely help. I am still considering going to buy them myself. If you want any further information on any of them, search Google for their names. Search Google for "opiate detox" if you want and you will no doubt find some other goodies I didn't mention that someone claims helps. The fact is, there's lots of stuff out there that can help. IMO, anything's worth a try, so if you can afford it, buy it all!

One more tip: Write down all those things. Some companies who make these supplements combine them. One example I have is my Schiff brand "Melatonin Plus" -- It's melatonin with theanine. So it's 2 of those list items in one! As I've said, I've taken that one for almost a year now so I got lucky in already having a supply of those two.

Walgreens has a great buy 1 get 1 supplement free thing going on right now with certain brands. It can help, too, as some of these can cost $20/bottle depending on brand, dosage, and quantity!

I spent way more time on this list than I intended! Time's just flying today! I guess that's what happens when you make yourself busy all day as I have.

Anyway, I hope this helps you and others... Be prepared to go to two stores as it's unlikely 1 store will carry all of these things.

By the way guys, you can call me "Dave" instead of "AnonGuy".

- Dave

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 17, 2009
Heather --

I was in the same boat. I just wanted it to be over. I still want it to be over! Make no mistake about it.. I say a lot of positive stuff but I still have my battles.

Right now? I have a very bad headache that unfortunately my tylenol/advil/aspirin trick hasn't taken care of. That trick of mine usually works, though it's no doubt dangerous and bad for the body. Oh well.. I have to deal with it, you know? I mean, a NORMAL person on NO meds has to deal with it-- Who am I to think I don't have to deal with something as simple as a headache?

I too have dealt with the mental games of "So what if I'm addicted for life" but that was long ago now. It's your LIFE and you deserve it back. Can you be a productive person who appears to be happy on the outside while on tramadol? Sure you can... I had been for years! You're 26? I am between 26-30 myself (I wish to remain a little anonymous that's why I don't want to give too much information on such a public website like this).

I think Emily has even had many bad days after the 50 day mark, for example. It's just something you've got to deal with, is the way I look at it. Again, normal people have bad days, right?

Just because you're having a bad day and think, "If this was such-and-such long ago, I would just take some tram" -- That doesn't mean it's a withdrawal symptom. It's not. It's just your brain trying to say that was a solution you used to employ at one time. At least, that's how I look at it.

Judging by myself and others, you will get a sense of normalcy again around the 5 day mark, but you aren't even close to being 100% over it. I am on day 6 and feel great but I know I am not 100%. But at this point I try to block the bad and enjoy the good. What bad I can't block, I try to deal with the same way a normal, non-medicated person would. It's the game of life, afterall...

Anyway, I am going to do some things for a bit and I'll be back in a couple hours or so. I hope my "WAR LIST" helps!

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by tramhater, Feb 17, 2009
OK SO AS YOU ALL CAN TELL FROM ALL MY POSTINGS TODAY I AM SERIOUSLY LOOKING FOR ALL THE HELP I CAN GET. HAS ANYONE IN HERE TRIED A DETOX IN A PROFESSIONAL FACILITY? I HAVE AN APPT WITH A LOCAL ONE THAT SAYS THEY WILL HELP ME... ON THURS EVENING.. THEY SAY IT IS 3-5 DAYS... WITH INSURANCE... DOES THIS SOUND NORMAL? SHOULD I NOT EVEN TRY OR DO I TRY ON MY OWN FIRST?? I TALKED TO MY HUSBAND SINCE HE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE OFF WORK AND TAKE CARE OF OUR SON... BUT HE SAYS I HAVE TO MAKE THE CALL. HE WILL SUPPORT WHICH EVER IT MAY BE? BUT I HAVE NEVER BEEN TO A DETOX PROGRAM... UGH THIS *****... THE EAGERNESS TO WANT THE "POISON" OUT OF MY BODY IS SO HUGE! I FEEL LIKE A PRISONER THAT IS BREAKING FREE... BUT HAS TO FIND THE PATH FIRST. THANKS SO MUCH DAVE.... FOR ALL THE INFO... I NEED TO DECIDE BY TMRW WHICH ROUTE I GO... THE AT HOME.. OR FACILITY?? IF IT IS THE AT HOME... MY HUSBAND SAYS RE SEARCH IT ALL.. WE WILL BUY IT ALL... IT WILL PROB BE CHEAPER THAN THE FACILITY EVEN AFTER INSURANCE.. LOL. WHAT TO DO?? ANY ADVISE?

LOOKING TO A BRIGHT FUTURE...
OH AND I AM A CHILD OF 2 VERY AWFUL ALCOLHOLIC PARENTS!

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by AnonGuy2, Feb 17, 2009
I really don't know anything about detox facilities except that they're popular with celebrities who want to kick addictions. That and they use other drugs to detox you with, I have also heard.

You could Google "opiate detox program" or Google the name of the company you've contacted and hopefully they have a website with more information.

I wish I could help you more but I really don't know.

I get the sense you've really become afraid of the tramadol withdrawal stories but regardless, I think detox is worth a shot if you feel like you really need it. Many people have went through detox programs to get off drugs, that's for sure.

I've got to be at work in 12 hours so I'm going to finish this bowl of soup, take my sleep aides, and hope for the best!

- Dave

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by EmilyPost, Feb 17, 2009
No one recovers from Tramadol in 3-5 days. How much does it cost? 10-15K? And what do they plan to do to "detox" you? What drugs are they plannng to gve a 26 year old woman? Tramadol s stored in your fat cells. n your organs, n your muscles, in your brain. No way that's  coming out n 3-5 Days. Sounds lke a Rip Off to me. But hten, I don't beleve that a normal Detox center could handle tramadol ... maybe Opiates ...

Do I feel normal? No I feel better than "normal"  and I'm taperng off Klonopin.  I don't have lingerng sde effects from Tramadol. Tramadol is terrble terrible stuff.

Dave thank you! Thank you for takng the tme and effort to write that (((Dave))))



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by frankm12, Feb 17, 2009
Hi All, -T Day 11!! Man, do I feel normal again! I am looking at detox mountain in my rearview mirror, and don't even hear anymore cries from the Tramadol saying it misses me. I am DONE!! I have to say that until day 10, there were still waves of withdrawals that came and went, but they are gone now. I am actually feeling the normal amount of energy I used to have, and my wit has returned!! I tell you all, you have been such a blessing and help during the 'dark days' of early withdrawals, and I can't tell you all thanks enough. To those new here and about to take on the most important battle of your lives (to get your lives BACK) , you are in great company and you will make it through the dark valleys of withdrawals. There are some unbelieveably great people here and as I said before, you will not be judged, dissected, or ridiculed in any way. You will receive kindness, love and support from those who have been on the Tramatrain to hell and back. Do not be afraid, get angry and beat this ****!!! You CAN do it.

Heather- Welcome. I cannot tell you what will be best for you, whether to go to an inpatient facility or to detox at home. I really don't know what a detox facility could do for you that you can't do on your own, with the assistance of all the wonderful folks in here of course. I will tell you my story in a Readers Digest version.- I got hooked on Tramadol after cleaning out my Mothers' house after she died from ALS (Lou Gehrigs' disease), and then continued my addiction by ordering them off the internet, continously feeding the beast. I was taking about 24-30 50mg pills a day, and became a Tramabot , thinking I was in control and on top of the world while the walls crumbled around me and I hit rock bottom. I lost my job as a Car Salesman (been selling for 12 years, never been fired in my life prior to the Trama-train), and while I was looking for work one evening on the Internet I found this site and realized that I was a MAJOR addict and had to stop, period. I had over 100 50mg pills left, but I gave those to my wife after I came clean to her. Luckily she has been great about it and very supportive, though a bit perturbed about the money I spent over the last year feeding my habit. I was on the Trama-Train for right about ten months.
Anyway Heather, there is no right or wrong way to do this. I knew I couldn't taper, because like the novelist AnonGuy, I knew I would just pop 5-6 pills as soon as I felt withdrawals, so Cold Turkey was the way for me. You will go through the worst part on Days 1-4. You will feel flu like symptoms, anxiety, depression(lack of serontonin due to the lack of the anti-depressant in the Tramadol), and you might as well resign yourself to the fact that you are not going to get any sleep for a few days. That part was the hardest for me, I literally beat myself in the head (not recommended)(lol) on night 3 after getting so frustrated about not sleeping. I tried Flexiril, Sleeping Pills, Valerian Root Tea, all to no avail. It's just part of the process of the body 're-wiring' itself and getting used to being without the poison that is Tramadol. The peak of going up what I like to call Detox Mountain came for me at I believe between Days 4-5, and after that coming down the mountain was SO MUCH EASIER. There was sleep on night 4 I rememberand then good sleep on night 5. I still had waves of aches , anxiety and depression, but they were lessening and I felt so much better because I knew I was getting so much closer to being through the hellride that is the Tramadol withdrawals. After day 7 it is almost a cakewalk, and now on Day 11 I feel normal and ready to re-join the world and workforce.
I guess what I am saying is that I believe that the people in here like Emily, Fred, Hillbilly, suzie, KC67, Roddy, AnonGuy, and everyone else that I may have left out probably know ALOT MORE about the withdrawals and how to support a 'newbie' than some facility where the 'trained' staff has read all about it. Remember, the same 'establishment' also proclaimed Tramadol to be safe and "non-addictive", and we all know, as we like to say in these here parts, that ain't true!! The choice is yours, either way my thoughts go out to you and I hope you climb up and down the mountain goes well. You have already shown the resolve to do it, so I KNOW you can, and with the help of the wonderful folks here, YOU WILL. Stay Strong.

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by Shadetree, Feb 17, 2009
Well I just got done with a pretty intense game of candyland...lol

My horrible headache is back! Im thinkin about taking the 3 drug mix we talked about 'Dave'. Thank you for the nice things you said about me to Heather. That really lifted me up. So tomorrow is the big day...hope you get a good night sleep and your day is as productive as you expect it to be. I will be anxious to hear from you to see how it went and how your doing back to your 'normal' life.

I hope you get everything thought out about what your going to do to get off of the demon drug. From my understanding about the detox facilities is they put you to sleep and monitor you while you withdrawl. That is way to scary for me! I would feel totally out of control. Your life is in their hands... But many people do it, it just wouldnt be for me. Like Emily said it is very expensive even with insurance. I will keep you in my prayers.

I am really starting to have stronger withdrawl symptoms. My body is trying really hard to regulate itself! That is how I think of it anyway. My ears are stopped up along with my nose. Im hot then cold all day. Im starting to get the brain zaps so many have talked about and now I understand! And this nasty headache that wont leave me alone....jsut go away already...

Im trying to make myself drink tons of water, and do everything I have mentioned before. Well today is over, tomorrow is day 10 and counting for me. I expect to be very busy at work tomorrow, so that will help Im looking forward to it.

Goodnight to all....you will all be in my prayers...

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by Shadetree, Feb 17, 2009
Ooops;

My sencond paragraph is directed to heather...

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by FinallyFred, Feb 18, 2009
Warrior - As I read your last post, something came to me that I just have to say...success is not defined by who you were or what you did yesterday.  Success is THAT purpose/resolve you hold in your heart now, TODAY.  

You have gone from 20 pills a day to 3 pills/day in 12 days.  Yikes, I would say you must be a "little" out of sorts.  I would be willing to bet you that when you do eventually STOP taking this terrible drug, that the 2-4 days after you stop will be NO WORSE than what you have/are experiencing right now.  You do know "your" taper is a little radical, right? Not exactly the textbook slow mellow taper that those who swear by a taper would recommend. (like 25 mg reduction every week mellow)

What you have/are doing (it seems to me) to be the worst of both worlds.  So, yes, it doesn't surprise me that you "called it in" a few days.  On the bright side, WOW, you have really kicked butt.  

I get the fear associated with STOPPING.  But don't think of it as "never taking tramadol for the rest of your life".  When you eventually decide to jump off, just determine to stop for that moment.  "Tomorrow" can be as freightening as "yesterday" was guilt laden.  As much as possible, try to stay in the moment.  

Heather,  I think that Emily makes a good point.  I too am not sure that a "detox" center will take someone with "tramadol addiction".  They might just tell you that tramadol isn't a "real" opiate and that they can't help you.  Oh when will the ENLIGHTENMENT happen?  Call them and let us know what they say.  I'm curious.  

Like Emily also says, my guess is that it wouldn't be cheap...again, I am curious.  Of course IF they take you and IF you have insurance, AND considering that you sound not at all sure that you are prepared to do this on your own (with our help), a detox center  might be a good option.  But assuming you can get in, like Emily asked, I wonder what sort of drugs they would give you while you are "in" and what sort of side affects, if any, those drugs might have for you.  I certainly would have no part of a place that "put you to sleep" for five days as someone said here.  

Either way you work through this, NEVER forget how you are feeling right now OK?  I hvae never had "cravings" for tramadol since I stopped taking it 2 1/2 months ago.  Like Emily said, it won't be entirely out of your system in 3-5 days, though by this point in my recovery, I feel pretty darned NORMAL.  Whatever that is for me...

It's not like we are afraid of loosing your business to a detox center.  :-)  These are very individual decisons.  The only thing I can tell you is that if you are committed to doing WAR with this drug to get off it, you can.  Any resolve short of that will probably not enable you to get free on your own.  It's not exactly like making a decison to stop chewing gum.

If you do decide to do this on your own, don't re-order any more tramadol.  Get the supplies Anonguy has laid out.  And if the weekend is your best shot for having your husband take care of you and your baby, pesonally, I would take my last tramadol on WED (tomorrow).  Day 1, Thursday, you will still have tramadol in your system and it souldn't be too bad. (famous last words :-) )  You may or may not sleep Thursday night and you will be feeling the full withdrawal symptoms on Friday.  From my experience, days 3-4 are worse than 1-2.  The sleep loss tends to make one less able to deal with things.  But if you can make it to Friday night, then you will have your husband home that night and the weekend.

Make him read this journal if he hasn't already.  He needs to know that you are undertaking some major withdrawal symptoms and tell him Fred says to be gentle and kind to you.  

Frankm, your example and testimony is POWERFUL.  Youv'e come a long ways since your pouch was waking you up on the couch with his big O licks!  And thanks for sticking around and helping others.  If you are like me, you have a debt of gratitude to the people at this place.

Good Night All...Fred

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by dontbelieve, Feb 18, 2009
howdy all...

I have been reading posts from some new folks...and it never ceases to amaze me the strangle hold this drug can put on not only our lives but the lives of those around us...

Heather: Good name first off...lol same as my wife....I cannot tell you that a rehab clinic will not help you...but I can tell you what it has done for a couple of my close friends...( thats right I am a story guy)...A good friend went through a bout with the number one drug in this area...crystal meth...nobody knew he had a problem until one day he started adding lights to his shed in the back yard...26 lights to be exact and we are talking some flood lights...he moved all his things into this shed and refused to live in the house with his wife and kids...he was completely paranoid that someone was coming for him and the magic lights would scare them off....its funny now but to him it was very real. it took 5 of us to get him out of the shed and two of us to hold him in the truck while one drove him to a rehab facility...after one month he was not convienced he was "cured" so he went through another time...along with anger management classes..during his second time through they helped him get a new career as an ambulance driver no less...things were looking up...he even made a commitment to stop smoking...all on his own no pressure from anyone...the same to quit drinking...again noone expected that...he made his mind up...3 days after leaving rehab he pulled up to my house with a beer in his hand and a lit cigarette...i didnt say a word..i am a smoker myself and thats a whole different addiction. within a week he was drinking heavily again...3 weeks lost his ambulance driving job...and was back to meth...within 6 months he was adding more lights to the shed...his wife had moved out with the kids and he would not talk to any of his friends....

fast forward 2 years...in that time he decided he was killing himself and decided to quit cold turkey...he came to his close friends and explained his addiction and what it meant to him...and what he needed from us...even down to the smallest detail of who to call when his dealer would show up out of the blue...
he had a tough withdrawl about 2 1/2 weeks of praying for death...but now is clean...to this day.
He has his life back...wife and kids...friends ( who never left) job...everything...

I guess my point is this...he did fine while he had the support of people who understood what he was going through in the rehab...once he lost that....he went back to it...it took explaining it and understanding from the people he was around all the time for him to succeed....along with the support of those who were also going through it from the rehab...

So either way you look at it...rehab center..cold turkey...taper....the one thing you will for sure need to succeed is continued support from friends and family alike as well as someone to talk to who knows your addiction the same way you do...experience. Thats what this room has provided for me. I could explain it to my wife until I am blue in the face...and although she understands..shes never been through it. The people in here have. Emily provides excellent knowledge from a what to expect perspective...that i dont think you can get from a rehab. Fred will give you a different way to look at things and will challenge you to get to the bottom of the root of the addiction. KC gives you the " day by day it gets better but don't think its over..." perspective...and everyone will give great advise you cant get anywhere else...and I didnt pay a thing for it. From the 245 days clean ( congrats by the way) emily...to the day one new poster...everyone helps!...and everyone understands the problem you are now facing. So whatever your decision...
continue to post here...continue to talk to your husband and as many have advised let him read some of our stories too...it will help him understand your journey that lies ahead.

On the lighter side:

I just mentioned to Heather that my wife is also a Heather...I also have 5 brothers....2 with wife/girlfriends named Heather...lol...Christmas is a confusing day for us all....

NOW on the not so lighter side...

I found out tonight the real meaning of pain...I for once in 3 days completely forgot my neck hurt at all....not because it didnt but because i have a worse pain now...and I must tell you all I have again had to go back to pain medication...not ultram but vicoden late tonight...after I explain this hopefully you will all understand...

I woke up this morning with a terrible pain in my side....within 20 minutes it was gone..and I feel back to sleep until about 4pm...( didnt fall asleep until 6am due to the new geneology stuff wifey is working on)

When I woke up at 4pm I had that pain again...only this time it did not go away...I could do nothing other than roll on the floor and moan...Finally after an hour of this my wife and I decided something was really wrong and went to the ER. I was there for 3 hours with the same pain...no change just stabbing pain in my side...i was actually crying by the time I got to Triage...after explaining my pain to the Traige nurse...I was immediately told what the problem was...and they were correct...KIDNEY STONES....I must admit when the nurse told me she was going to give me something for pain I was scared...I immediatly said " NO TRAMADOL!!!!" and she said " no....something much stronger " and brought me two vicoden. Within a half hour I had passed one stone...so far tonight 2 more...and the bad news is I have multiple stones yet to go per the CT....I have been advised to see my doctor and request to see a urologist within 48 hours...

After 9 days of tramahell...here I go again...but I am not going to beat myself up about having to take pills...I am having a tough time passing these stones with the vicoden...I honestly dont think I could pass them without it....so I am looking at this as a setback...but not defeat.

SEE WARRIOR....I told you just two days ago...we all have minor setbacks...but with support and understanding we all have the ability to realize its just a setback...

So with that my friends I hope you all understand my reasoning for this setback and if any of you have had kidney stones in the past any advise or info would be so helpful...they told me that a 5mm stone is unpassable...and I have a few 4mm and 3mm in both kidneys....but no 5mm...and oh mother of pearl do they hurt.....

The hillbilly


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by AnonGuy2, Feb 18, 2009
A lot of activity has happened since I signed off last night. That's great!

Well I went to sleep from around 9pm to 5am waking up 2-3 times very much like the night before last. Again, Hylands Restless Legs was needed.

When I woke up at 5 I initially tried to get back to sleep for another hour or two (yes, I was feeling greedy lol) but then I started to analyze the situation in my head while I lay there with my eyes closed... "Hmmm... 9pm to 5am... Ah... 8 hours! That's great" followed by "Hmmm... I have to be at work by 8am and I want to make sure to eat and take my vitamins before I get to work."

So I decided I might as well get up.

Here I sit, stomach rumbling, enjoying the new posts by Frank, Emily, Shadetree, Fred, and hillbilly. Great posts, guys! Especially Frank--- Frank, man, your description of the whole experience in your last post completely describes me and what I've been through these last 6-7 days! My confidence that I'm rapidly overcoming this **** just gets stronger and stronger by posts like that!

Hillbilly--- I totally feel you with the screams of "NO TRAMADOL!" to the doctor/nurse. I have much thought the same for a long time that if I'm in the hospital for anything that I would do the same thing and tell them no tramadol no matter what.

It's 6am now and I plan on leaving by 7:30am so I've got to run. BTW, I took a third shower last night after I made that last post-- I really enjoy taking them immensely.

Hey one more quick thing-- I am surprised no one has ever said anything about the two times I have brought up how tramadol has been described to my last two dogs (one for cancer pains one for a leg/hip dislocation). Can you imagine how they must feel withdrawing from this ****? My last dog to be prescribed it is my chihuahua and at only 1.5 pounds, the prescription bottle and directions from the doctor stated to give 1/2 to 1 full tablet (of a 50mg pill). I remember her being withdrawn from a lot of things in the days after I stopped administering it.

Isn't that some scary stuff?

I will, of course, never let that happen again, but still.

OK, off to get ready for work. I look forward to it quite a bit!

- Dave

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by dontbelieve, Feb 18, 2009
hey dave....

I just realized that my dog has been on tramadol too!...and the pills looked exactly like the ones I was taking at the time. it was for about a month while his leg was healing....and I'll be damned if he wasnt a little grumpy and lathargic once we stopped giving them to him....didnt even think about that..poor Roscoe!...

the Hillbilly

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by KC67, Feb 18, 2009
Day 10 – Feb. 18, 2009 – cold turkey

Sorry everyone for not posting lately, but I have REALLY been struggling.  Also, I went back to work and have been super busy with work and family.

I am struggling with major anxiety and yesterday I had chills and all-over body achey-ness.  I thought I might be coming down with a “bug”, but today I woke up feeling fine.  So even at Days 9 and 10, I am experiencing physical withdrawal symptoms!  Everyone’s Tram. withdrawal experience is different, so those of you who are just starting out, do not be afraid and expect that YOUR withdrawal will be exactly like mine.    

The physical symptoms (aside from yesterday) seem to continue to improve, but the anxiety is REALLY intense.  Is this ever going to end?  I suffered from anxiety PRE-Tram, so this is nothing new, but PRE-Tram I had some serotonin in my brain to help me deal with these feelings.  I am pretty sure that the Tram. (being the tri-cyclic antidepressant/painkiller/poisonous devil pill that it is) wiped out what little serotonin I had.    

Emily, do you remember still feeling anxious/”bluesy”/zero-energy at Day 10?  I am taking my Gaba and my sublingual B’s daily, but the mental effects of this withdrawal are so powerful.

I have days when I REALLY want to take a Tram. to just make me feel less anxious, but I am determined to beat this and have to keep reminding myself that I took a LOT of Tram. for 3 years.  As Emily said, it is not going to leave my body as quickly as I would like.   Tram. has deep talons and doesn’t like to leave without an intense fight.  

As for sleep, I am sleeping better but still wake up about 3-4 times per night.  The good news is that I can usually fall back to sleep fairly quickly – vs. being wide-awake like I just had 10 espressos (Days 1-5).  

AnonGuy – I remember the intensity I used to feel on Tram.  I thought I was the best conversationalist EVER!  I could intensely discuss the way wallpaper dries, and my focus would never wander from the person I was talking to. lol.  Thinking back, it was probably incredibly annoying to the other person as they couldn’t escape from me.  LOL again.  Anyway, now I am beginning to wonder if there are some hidden ADD meds in Tramadol.  Because I had incredible focus and energy when I was on it!

Hillbilly – I can’t imagine what passing kidney stones is like.  And you still manage to make me laugh in your posts.  My best goes to you and I hope they pass quickly and as painlessly as possible!

It’s great to have everyone here for support.  I love reading all of your posts.  It keeps me positive and distracted from this continuing withdrawal.

Sincerely with love and hope,
KC67


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by Shadetree, Feb 18, 2009
Good morning everyone,

Well I woke up again with the massive headache that wont leave me alone, all stopped up, and down today...very down.
It is very gloomy & rainy here which doesn’t help! I feel so much better when the sun is shining.

Anyway, I am anxiously awaiting the day that I don’t hear the voice of tramadol any longer. I know it will happen its just going to take time. I am fighting with myself constantly. But I know the drill, Its like the seal is broke so I have to get it sealed again before I don’t hear it anymore. That’s how it is for me anyway, the moment I take something whether its vicodin, codeine, tramadevil...the seal is broke and that is all I will think about. If I run out I will go through every option I can think to get more. But with vicodin or codeine, it only lasts a couple days then its gone, the seal is sealed again.
So like I said I am waiting patiently for that day...

I have cried a lot today, the kids are fighting extra today “it seems”, My husband and I aren’t getting along...Its just a all around BAD day. That I hope gets better. I’m still tapering (slowly but surely) and refuse to give in to it. I still think about it constantly though...When I used to take tramadevil daily it was like KC67 says I had energy all day long, was focused on whatever I had to do and was in a great mood! Talked more and like she said I was too probably annoying...lol

I just needed to vent...thanks for listenen. Thanks to everyone continuing to post. Your stories and advice keeps me going...ttyl


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by EmilyPost, Feb 18, 2009
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/63377

Please move to ths next thread; Part Two.

Let's all contnue the conversatioin there :D


http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/63377


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by beck01, Feb 19, 2009
Hi Emily, I have been on Tramadol for nearly 2 years on about 5 50mg a day. I was on them for headaches. I want to stop taking them because i feel like they are ruling my life and after reading what everyone has wrote i am now desperate. I have 2 young children and they are on holiday from school at the moment i cut down yesterday from 5 to 3 and was ok, felt a bit weird but nothing major! Am hoping to only take 2 today and then cut down to one and then none! Is that the way to do it i have never had to do anything like this before and am so scared of what is going to happen once i stop. I have no willlpower at all, but i want to do this more than anything. I loved the way Tramadol made me feel but now i just want rid of it. Someone please help, noone around me has any idea whats going on and i cant tell them.

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by Missyjp, Feb 22, 2009
Beck01,

The forum has moved to a new thread. Right above your post is a link to the new thread from Emily.  Just double click on the http. address listed above in blue.  Also, you should post your message above on the new thread so they can respond to you.  

Good Luck,

Missy

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by Teri1970, May 13, 2009
Hey out there...i need help.  Even thought I have been on and off this shit (ultram) for the past 10 years, It has been awhile since I have attempted to quit.  Now I am going cold turkey.  Not by choice, but I really have to wonder if it's not the best way for me.  I was up to about 36 pills a day and can only imagine how long it would take to taper.  I am so ready to be off of them.  But I am writing to get tips on conquering the withdrawal symptoms.  What can i do or take to help me get through this?  Anyone with this similar dosage having gone cold turkey?  Please post all the tips you can.  Thank you.

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by Miss_Amy_2009, May 13, 2009
TERI:

This is an old post...Please move to the continued forum located here:


http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/85572?personal_page_id=494954

There are lots of people there to help you....

Good Luck!

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by GreatWhite, Oct 29, 2009
Hey guys, I am new to this forum and my story is quite similar to everyone's i guess. So I will just lay it all out there as I have finally decided to beat this thing once and for all:

Came to NY from CA drug free in about 2001. Got a job as a bartender at a restaurant and was introduced to all kinds of drugs from the staff there. (Waiters and Waitresses do a lot of drugs, guess you have to do deal with hungry people all day). Started out just smoking pot recreationally until I started buying pills from somone else. vicodin and percocet and any pain pill i could take, as i loved the high. But i never really took that much. 20 pills would last me a week or more. As I was very economical with my drug use. Coming off vicodin and percs after that week was basically just like a stomach bug, nothing more that would last a day. After I quit that job, I wasnt taking anything until I felt the urge to take pills again and started ordering Trams online. Now I get them delivered to my door every month or so. Like I said i never really take more than 2 at a time like 2 or 3x a day so 90 pills would last me 3 or 4 weeks.
  Right now i am down to 3 a day, but havent really had the encouragement or inspiration to kick the habit until my girlfriend found out about it and confonted me. Nobody knew or at least so i thought, until she confronted me. Turns out she had suspicions that I was taking something, and asked me and i just told her the truth. That it wasnt serious, that i wasnt a drug addict, i didnt do it for the high, i just did it so my body wouldnt get sick anymore. I cant afford to get sick because I do have a day job, and go to grad school, so i consider myself a functioning adult on these Trams. If i were to quit cold turkey i would need a lot of excuses as to why i wasnt at work and definitely would probably either be fired or close to it. So my gf did a bunch of research as have I the last couple days, and i have decided to tell my aunt and uncle, who i live with, and try to figure out a plan. I am definitely embarrassed by my drug use, afraid of what people might think, and afraid to tell anybody anything about it. It took a lot of me telling my gf and the last few days have been filled with tears and emotions that i never knew i had inside of me.
  Today i am so motivated to quit! My gf wants me to get professional help and take a leave of absence medically from work and go to a treatment center. Apparently only 2% of people who try to do it themselves actually quit for good. Its been about 2 years since I been on them, and the withdrawal symptoms scare the sh*t outta me but like i said, now that I have found this forum and hopefully will have the support of my family I know i can do it by myself. I want to start seeing a good psychiatrist to talk to them and hopefully that will help me get that part of my life in order of keeping things inside and hiding emotions. What my plan is to get it down to 2/day, which i have before, and then 1/day and then 1/2/day. and then just stop. I know this is going to take a lot of resilience and a lot of mental control but I know I can do this. I am sure there will be days where it is unbearable, but hopefully with the support of people I can get through it. I cannot imagine doing this alone, Iam lucky to have a great gf who truly loves me and wants to help me. I was so afraid that if i told her she would leave me but its quite teh opposite., She keeps telling me its not my fault.. and i want to believe that so bad, but i am still embarrassed at this point. Going to the gym is defintely going to help with everything as i love working out, but I also want to try some fish oil, and ambien probably to help sleep.
  Let me know what you guys think, i would love to hear your opinions and welcome any criticisms or comments. Thanks,
Chris

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by madtram, Oct 29, 2009
Hi Chris,
Your taper sounds reasonable & fish oil & ambien would be helpful.  You might want to try the amino acid DLPA to help with energy.

This is an old thread.  If you copy paste your post on the current tramadol thread, everyone can respond.  Come to:

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/132231

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