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Tramadol & Ultram Wthdrawal, Recovery & Taper Room Part 3

Feb 27, 2009 - 181 comments
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Welcome Tramadol Warriors!

Fred wrtes, "I stick with it because I remember how the T-train caused INCREASED pain all over my body, in places I never imagined I could have pain.  I stick with it because I can remember what it was like to be in the FOG of TRAM, to walk into a room, and forget why I was there, I stick with it because I would rather not get killed on my motorcycle from being too fogged to care what I was doing.  I stick with it because my grandson tells me how nice it is now to only have to ask grandpa ONE TIME to be picked up.  (Pappa?  Pappa?  Pappa?  Pappa?)  I stick with it because I lost all my forks - clearing dishes after a meal into the garbage, FORKS And ALL.  I stick with it because I was tired of going to my doctor, hat in hand, and asking him to increase my daily dose of the drug.  I stick with it because I no longer desire to be under the control of a substance that wanted more than I had to give, while returning less and less to me.  ETC. ETC. ETC."

Gah! Threw all my forks away too Fred. Tramadol is a terrible drug. Thank you so much for your kind message for me! It helps :D

And yes, pain in places I never have had paiin before.

Back soon!

Come home wanderng Warriors!
Emily


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Avatar_f_tn
by kes68, Feb 27, 2009
Fred you are a wise one!

The pink cloud has turned stormy on me more than once.  As soon as I start to feel like I have conqured the addiction - I go back over a list I have made - what tramadol has taken from me - what I have lost/what I have to lose. (Sadly mine includes cutlery as well?!)
This list helps keep me grounded in the reality of addiction, or my life.  It doesn't matter if this is your only addiction - that started out innocently with pain management - sadly, Fred is right - it doesn't go away.  It is in remission when we are taking care of ourselves - but it is still there, waiting.

Just wanted to mention again a bizzare symptom I had - see if anyone can relate.  I am tapering - slowly - but have been trying to hold off taking my first pills of the day as late as I can.  Two days ago I let it go a little further - I started to feel the anxiousness, sweating - you know the drill - so I took the pills.  Well - within a few minutes - I was running around the house like I was on fire - I had restless body syndrom!  I could not stay still - it was freaky.  It settled after about 15 min - and I could just pace, and then finally subsided when the tram kicked in.
I am thinking that maybe I am better to take less pills at a time - but more often - like 2 every 3 hours - instead of 6 in the Am, 2 mid day, and 6 in the Pm.  I feel okay today - again except for a mild headache I have not felt any major withdrawal yet.  I will be down to 13 on Sunday (From about 18) I figure that the symptoms will start kicking in the lower my dose.

Just thought I would throw this out there to see what others had experienced      

Avatar_f_tn
by emergee, Feb 27, 2009
does benzo withdrawal also cause low energy ?  or is this leftover from tram withdrawal?  or is it maximum stress because i lost all my retirement and will no doubt lose my house?   i am flattened out in bed.   i feel like i need weeks and weeks of time on a beach to recover my health but obviously cannot do that.
tryptphan is getting me to sleep but by the end of the afternoon i get this strange sort of buzz.  some sort of jumpy chemical feeling in my cells.   is this tram,  is this benzo?   i wouldn't know that i am detoxing benzo, no obvious symptom.   i am just not getting any better .   THREE MONTHS TRAM WITHDRAWAL.

Avatar_n_tn
by MsMarie1981, Feb 27, 2009
Fred and Emily -- That is HILARIOUS to hear about all of the cutlery, mostly becuase its SO bizarre that all of the little werid things tram people have in common.  Tommy and I are always asking where all of our spoons went! bizarre

Good morning everyone!  

I had another night of waking up at 5am and not being able to go back to sleep.  I wonder if i'm not subconsciously preparing for Tommy's early mornings.  Like when a husband gains pregnancy weight along with his wife.  and yeah i'm sympathy eating too.  haha. :)

Its amazing how differently I see my world and my relationship are now that i'm aware of tramadol's effects.  Take, for example, the tramadol fog. I'm not sure how much Tommy realizes he has tramadol fog,  how he'll ask me a question and I'll answer, and 10 minutes later he'll ask me the same question and not realize he'd asked it before.  He's always done alot of little bizarre things (like placing a package of Grands Biscuits on an incredibly high up, difficult to reach hanging rack in the garage and forgetting about it??? so i come home thinking WhyTF is there a package of biscuits dangling from my garage ceiling??? haha)  that I assumed were just Tommy being a weirdo :) but now that I know more about tramadol they make alot more sense.  Maybe its not funny but sometimes the only thing you can do is laugh about it.  

Its bizarre to look back on our relationship and not know what was really him and what was tramadol. I remember after we'd been dating for like, 9 months, he couldn't think of my mom's name, and I was really offended, thinking "Wow, he really doesn't pay attention to or care about my life."  Knowing about tramadol puts a lot of little moments like that, good and bad, into question.  You all talk about becoming yourselves again after quitting, i feel like Tommy and I will kind of be meeting eachother for the first time. I'll be meeting him off of drugs for the first time, and he'll be meeting me for the first time without the tramgoggles on :)  I look forward to that

***FRED*****
reading your last post I laughed out loud because before you even mentioned that you ride a bike I already knew that you were a biker.  :)

***Price****
There is a bookstore on 7th Street in Phoenix, south of camelback, north of Indian School, called "Gifts Anon" or something like that.  Its in a plaza with a tanning salon called Tangible Tanning.  Someone told me that they maintain a schedule of all kinds of meetings there that you can go and pick up. Good luck.


I also wanted to mention something about Tommy's taper.  His description of it on the las thread wasn't really accurate last time he left it, i think its also tramfog related. So I asked him if it would be ok if i posted a more accurate description of his taper.  For most of his taper he hasn't felt terrible symptoms, so maybe this will be helpful for people who are looking for an alternative to CT.  Of course, today is his first completely pill-free day so we'll have to update on what WDs are like for him

TOMMYBOY's TAPER
Up until Dec 2008, Tommy was taking between 15 and 20  50mg pills of tram.  Most weekdays 15, weekends 17-18 and occasionally up to 20.  Dec 15 I found out about the tram and Tommy committed to tapering, over the few days after that we saw a Dr and did a lot of research. The Dr. wanted him to colt turkey and take 4 other meds in trams place, 2 of which are proven addictive narcotics.  He didn't want to, so we spoke to some other people, talked to a Pharmacist, and decided on tapering.

The Pharmacist told us to taper approximately 25% per week, to not be afraid of going slowly.  That first week Tommy dropped one whole pill every third day I think.  He wasn't tremndously uncomfortable at any point in time, but noticed slight acheyness, improvement in his bathroom habits, etc...He was down 11 pills a day by December 27, when his pill bottle was almost empty that time ran out and the internet companies wouldn't send him any more for a few days.   We spoke to my stepfather who is a doctor about what we should do, and he said we could safely drop to 4 pills a day until we got the next bottle.  So Tommy dropped to 4 pills from 11 in one day.  For those few days tommy experienced more of the withdrawal symptoms, acheyness, discomfort, difficulty sleeping, bathroom probs, etc...When we got the new bottle we went back up to 5.  In December alone we pretty much went from 15 pills to 5 pills.  A huge accomplishment, and he suffered a little for it, but definitely worth it because it allowed the rest of the process to go slowly. We both felt alot more comfortable with dropping slowly when it meant putting only up to 5 pills a day in his body as opposed to 15.  We stayed at 5 pills for probably about 2 weeks or so.  

Since then the 25% a week has been a much slower process.  Over the course of the past 6 weeks we have gone from 5 pills to 0 today.  He would usually drop by a half a pill around every 4-5 days.  Then towards the end we quartered the pills. When he was too uncomfortable we might wait an extra day or too before dropping a half pill again.  This process has allowed him to maintain functionality throughout  the process.  He has been uncomfortable for a few weeks now but usually some tylenol does the trick for the most part.  And he's has been getting plenty of rest and eating enough and just overall trying to take care of himself.  Maybe that has made the process a little easier.  

This week he was a little more accellerated because he decided this weekend he finally has time to take a few days off if he needs to to quit, so he went from 1 pill this past weekend to .75 pill tuesday, .5 pills wednesdays, yesterday he took .25 pills.  and today nothing.  Yesterday he was feeling hot and sweaty alot, and grouchy.  But he was able to sleep excepting some tossing and turning.  This will be his first day without any tram going into his system, so we'll see what the weekend brings. I just wanted to tell you all about his taper and what it was erally like.  It was really slow, excepting the big drop from 11 pills to 4 pills.  Lets hope its not all for nothing and that his withdrawals aren't too awful this weekend.

Hope this information helps.  Thanks all for your support. :)

marie



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by EmilyPost, Feb 27, 2009
YES WE CAN!!

LOL! Kes! People wth no cutlery unite!

Well. The windows of relief during a taper are very nice. Too bad that didn't last as long as well ... forever!

This morning more partially numb face and numb right eyelid. This is like having a neurological migraine. It would be scary if  didn't know it was coming from Benzo drug withdrawal and GABA receptors being none to happy

Not freezing now but I have developed an attachment to the giant Parka. Like a kid and a blankie. Now I am too hot. It's pretty standard drug withdrawal stuff. Sweaty, freezing.

The thing about Klonopin is that it travels wth strange disabilities. i.e. I do not want to go to a store to get food or water or anything. Not mere avoidance  can overcome. In fact this morning I made a list and handed it to a coworker and sent her to the store. Mainly not having water is a hardship indeed. I'm so spacey and so I am not trusting myself at all. We needed office stuff, but I threw in enough groceries to get me thru the weekend. I work half days today and tomorrow. All I can do is get to work and get home.

Last week one of my coworkers broke down on a freeway Interchange. She's a young girl and basically after she'd called all her friends, no one could help her, she called me. I got her off the freeway and called AAA roadside service to change her tire. The experience wiped the floor wth me. So sad! Any stress causes benzo symptoms to intensify. The idea of a slow taper is to allow GABA to restore in your bran so that when you cease; you do not have post withdrawal symptoms. It sounds as if you have those emergee ... is the lack of energy constant?

Emergee welcome back! Yes, low or no energy can come from Benzo withdrawal. I am very sad to hear of your financial woes.  I know that whole "Put me on a beach for a month ... or maybe two" feeling. Three months off Tramadol you're probably feeling Benzo withdrawal. It depends on what you did, how much and how you tapered. Did you get off Tramadol and the Benzo at the same time? You probably answered this but the Klonopin taper has made me profoundly stupid and has erased my short term memory.

Who are all you people again? Kidding!

Love and healing,
Emily

544292_tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Feb 27, 2009
YES WE CAN!!

LOL! Kes! People wth no cutlery unite!

Well. The windows of relief during a taper are very nice. Too bad that didn't last as long as well ... forever!

This morning more partially numb face and numb right eyelid. This is like having a neurological migraine. It would be scary if  didn't know it was coming from Benzo drug withdrawal and GABA receptors being none to happy

Not freezing now but I have developed an attachment to the giant Parka. Like a kid and a blankie. Now I am too hot. It's pretty standard drug withdrawal stuff. Sweaty, freezing.

The thing about Klonopin is that it travels wth strange disabilities. i.e. I do not want to go to a store to get food or water or anything. Not mere avoidance  can overcome. In fact this morning I made a list and handed it to a coworker and sent her to the store. Mainly not having water is a hardship indeed. I'm so spacey and so I am not trusting myself at all. We needed office stuff, but I threw in enough groceries to get me thru the weekend. I work half days today and tomorrow. All I can do is get to work and get home.

Last week one of my coworkers broke down on a freeway Interchange. She's a young girl and basically after she'd called all her friends, no one could help her, she called me. I got her off the freeway and called AAA roadside service to change her tire. The experience wiped the floor wth me. So sad! Any stress causes benzo symptoms to intensify. The idea of a slow taper is to allow GABA to restore in your bran so that when you cease; you do not have post withdrawal symptoms. It sounds as if you have those emergee ... is the lack of energy constant?

Emergee welcome back! Yes, low or no energy can come from Benzo withdrawal. I am very sad to hear of your financial woes.  I know that whole "Put me on a beach for a month ... or maybe two" feeling. Three months off Tramadol you're probably feeling Benzo withdrawal. It depends on what you did, how much and how you tapered. Did you get off Tramadol and the Benzo at the same time? You probably answered this but the Klonopin taper has made me profoundly stupid and has erased my short term memory.

Who are all you people again? Kidding!

Love and healing,
Emily

Avatar_n_tn
by abuser, Feb 27, 2009
Benzo withdrawl for me caused me to be really lethargic, very anxious and agitated, and I would burst out in tears like every 10 mins, no matter what I was doing. I'd be watching the Red Wings kick anothere team's @ss, and I'd break down crying... I was really emotional, could NOT SLEEP despite being exhausted, and was annoyed by everything, TV, people, dog, cat, etc. It sucked and it lasted about a month...my counselor said benzo withdrawl lasts the longest, usually.

544292_tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Feb 27, 2009
Kes you write;

"I am thinking that maybe I am better to take less pills at a time - but more often - like 2 every 3 hours - instead of 6 in the Am, 2 mid day, and 6 in the Pm.  I feel okay today - again except for a mild headache I have not felt any major withdrawal yet.  I will be down to 13 on Sunday (From about 18) I figure that the symptoms will start kicking in the lower my dose."

Yep, take less per dose. More often. Try not to spike the levels of Tramadol in your system. It wll be more comfortable to taper that way also. You'll remove a dose.

:D





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by AnonGuy2, Feb 27, 2009
There's a TON to catch up on since I last posted over 24 hours ago.

I am going to try to catch up to everyone but I may miss some. Here goes:


********
PRICE
********

You said: "although I thought it was helping me with productivity (which it might have in the beginning) it really just made me unmotivated and unambitious. Which were two things I ALWAYS had. Those are GONE."

I say: I, too, was tricked into thinking it made me very productive. It didn't! I was always that way, too, and I am way more aware of that today more than ever! So you will get yours back, too, but it will take awhile. Ttust me!

You said: "Yesterday would have been day 30. Today is day one. I don't know how to fight the cravings. I HATE tramadol. But I want to be HIGH. Why? Because I am lonely, bored, unmotivated, depressed, anxious. I feel like a LOSER."

I say: Don't feel like a loser. Seriously. I, too, am lonely, bored, anxious, etc. a LOT. I am almost 30, single, never married and no kids. I don't even have but a small handful of friends outside of work who I never even see really since tramadol had me isolating myself whenever I'd have free time. So I would want to be "high" a lot, too, and that's what led me to getting addicted to tramadol. As I've reported before, in the beginning I only used it at work for the false sense of uber-productiveness it can give. Then I started taking it every day regardless if I worked or not. Why? Because I felt everything you felt and just wanted to be high!


************
HEATHER
************

You said: "DAY 7 STILL GOING WONDERFUL!!! HAVE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO BAD WAVES SINCE NIGHT 4!!!! LOVE IT CAN'T WAIT TO KEEP FEELING THIS WAY! I REALIZED I WAS MUCH MORE RELAXED AND FUNNY OFF THE T DOG!!"

I say: That's AWESOME! I am glad to hear it! Really, that's great! I have to say, you sure are lucky, though. Hopefully you never return to bad feelings like I have off and on for a few days!


****************
SHADETREE
****************

Glad to hear from you again. I am sorry the taper hasn't progressed much recently. Maybe you would be able to take a day off work and try quitting cold turkey? I don't remember if that's possible for you or not, but I am just suggesting. I hope you start progressing again soon!


*******
FRED
*******

I was NOT saying I look forward to being in a "pink cloud" period-- I was simply saying how much I can't wait to be completely over this garbage and think everything is behind me (more or less, of course).


*************
MS MARIE
*************

That 5am thing sure does suck, doesn't it? Whether or not you are experiencing it as a coincidence, I sympathize greatly. Waking up at 5am happened for me on 3 or 4 nights once I finally started to get some sleep again. Then, it went away. I still wake up quite a few times throughout the night but I am able to get back to sleep with relative ease, sometimes easier than others. But at least the 5am thing is done for me and I have been getting 8-10+ hours now for many nights in a row and sleeping until my alarm (which is set much later than 5am lol)!


********
EMILY
********

One thing I never mentioned here in detail is how much I loved taking klonopin recreationally years ago. I seriously took it and loved it just as much as tramadol going back 5-6 years and was always taking massive doses WITH tramadol for a few years thereafter. I would take between 6-10 2mg klonopin pills (for those who don't know, 2mg is the max dose of klonopin if I recall in 1 pill anyway) daily along with my high doses of tramadol for years. I loved it. And, to make the mixture even more fun, on days I worked, I would also take 10mg of hydrocodone with those. This was back when I first started tramadol use and went on for a few years before I started just taking tram and tram only. It was more due to financial reasons than anything else as I still remember loving the heck out of a klonopin high. It was way more enjoyable than valium, xanax, etc. (even though I've taken tons of those at times too: sometimes 4-6 10mg valium and 3-4 2mg xanax bars). Again, I used to be a MAJOR drug addict. Luckilly I don't ever remember having withdrawals from benzos but then again you have to remember I was doing so much other stuff too like acid, ecstasy, and cocaine at least once a week.

So anyway, Emily, let me just cut to the chase and say I feel for you and hope your klonopin use will be completely over soon. Hang in there! :)


****************************
OKAY ABOUT MY DAY
****************************

I had a great day today. I felt so normal today it was ridiculous and still is ridiculous! My short term memory is getting back to 100% which is great and my energy levels are getting VERY high again. The lower back pain is starting to fade, too! I really have nothing bad to report except a mild headache and constant sneezing still going on! But hey, that's WAY MORE than manageable to me so I am feeling super!

Well I have to run as I have food I just made getting cold.


- Dave
:D :D :D :D

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by priceiswright, Feb 27, 2009
Dave - you are doing great! I'm very proud of you.

I wanted to write a warning to everyone if they hadn't read all my posts. When I first stopped tramadol, I could swear up and down that I would NEVER take a tramadol again. NEVER. And I believed it. Then when that pink cloud came, I started to think I was more powerful than the drug and I had (falsely) believed I had conquered my addiction. That is when the oh I can use on the weekends and have fun and not do it during the week ideas came on. And as someone mentioned 1 pill leads to a 1000 pills. So just make sure to never think that you are not powerless against this drug, because as an addict, you are. Even if you HATE it. Even if it is RAT POISION. Obviously, some people have different experiences........especially Emily who was able to keep it in the house and not even take any. WOW. She is STRONG.

I don't remember having this many cravings to be high. I can't stop thinking bout getting high. I don't want to get a tramadol high but I sure as hell wouldn't mind an oxy or hyrdo high to get me through these painful feelings of depression and loneliness. But what will that do? That will make me love the high, crave the high more and more, and since I don't have tons of money or any access to hydro or oxy, I would end up taking a tramadol trying to find that high (because as we all know tramadol is EASY to get on the internet and much less expensive than the more "addictive" pain killers (cough!!! cough). WORSE - I would likely become addicted to another pill. Tramadol is mixed with some sick amount of anti-depressants or whatever the heck and that f***s us up even more.

Has anyone been succesful in quitting tramadol with no other pain killers, benzos, pills, sleep medication, etc? I have a prescription for xanax for anxiety and it sure does nothing for me. THANK GOODNESS.

I don't know when I turned into an addict. I had been prescribed pain killers during my teens and would only take 1 -2 and the bottle would sit in my medicine cabinet. Then in the last years of college, I had an infection and took the pills and loved the high. I then started searching for more pain killers and had bottles upon bottles left over from dentist appointments, other infections, etc. I would only take a pain killer on the weekend. I even started stealing pain pills from my family....... When I started grad school, I had no more pain pills left and didn't really care because I was so busy and so consumed with work. But if someone had them I would take them. I might have taken 2-3 every 3 months. Then I went on vacation out of the county and looked for pain meds in a pharmacy. They said no vics, but they had something else. TRAMADOL. It didn't get me the GREAT feeling that other pain kills did, but it did give me SUPREME energy and a general feeling of well being. That's when I got addicted the first time. I took 1 pill, 1 a night for about 5 months straight. Then I said I am addicted to this damn pill and went to see a counselor and physciatrist (who both had no idea what tramadol was). The doc prescribed an anti-depressant, xanax, and sleeping pills. I quit for 5 months. Then I found out that a friend had them and was ordering them off the internet. It started with me saying oh yes I'll do these every once in a while so I quit my AD and took trams. Occasionally at first and then almost everyday for the next 12 months. When I ran out once I wracked up emergency room bills to try and get some painkillers to help me threw till my next order online came in. Those painkillers didn't do **** to help my symptoms. They didn't even make me high. I just wanted trams. so I vowed to never be without trams again. A month ago I realized I was a full blown addict taking 5 - 20 pills a day and I had turned into a diff person. An emotionless person. I took tramadol to feel "not unwell." I didn't get any high from them anymore but they still made me feel more productive. SO THAT'S MY STORY. I know trams turn me into an UGLY person. I know they do.

I need help with the cravings. Is there anything I can take to stop the cravings? Something natural preferably......???? Did anyone have the similar experience as me? I've never done any other drug besides maryjane but pain pills got me. They will always have me. If I see a script sitting in a friend or family members cabinet, how do I stop myself from taking them? I know people who have been off for 300 days and they still want to use if they see a script. That is terrifying.

This is a ramble.......but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE my friends DO NOT take a tramadol if you have quit. It's not worth it. You will have to go through EVERY PAINFUL mental symptom all over again.

Fred and the other person who talked about aftercare - you will be happy to know that I plan on attending a PA meeting. I looked up NA meetings and there are a lot more - what do you think is better? It seems PA focuses on pain killer addiction. But NA has way more meetings.

766333_tn?1234918196
by AnonGuy2, Feb 27, 2009
********
PRICE
********

You said: "Has anyone been succesful in quitting tramadol with no other pain killers, benzos, pills, sleep medication, etc?"

I want to say that here, anyway, Fred did (I can't recall him using any other pills, anyhow). And me! Well, I am only at day 16, so maybe I should say I *am* beating it without any pills! Except for vitamins and OTC medications, of course.

I am at the point of really not even taking vitamins anymore. The last few days I haven't and I've been feeling better than ever.

Today I was in a position where I could have had several 7.5mg hydrocodone tabs and, as tempting as it was, I reminded myself that I am slowly becoming the type of person to NOT take stuff like that. They were right there, in my hand, but I still said no. It was huge for me to say no considering that today I have been feeling super-great and 99.9% normal all-day long. It would have been all but too easy to say to myself, "I am really making great strides in overcoming my tramadol addiction, and taking some hydros would sure be fun so let's do it!"

Here's what I reminded myself, though: "What's the benefit? I could feel good and high for a few hours on each pill, but then what? What's the point?" I am very sure that had I taken them that once I didn't have any that I wouldn't seek out more. Why is it worth acting stupid just for a fun few hours? It's not worth it. And if I'm wrong and I would try to get more, then it REALLY wouldn't be worth it. So either way, I am stupid if I decide to take them. So that's why I said no.

Your xanax doesn't do anything for you? You know, that's the thing about xanax. Moreso than any other benzos, when you take xanax you generally don't feel high but only act and appear high to others. Then, the next day, especially if you take a large dose, you won't even remember a lot of what you did on them. So to myself and everyone I knew, they were always stupid to take, too. But you know what? I was still stupid enough to take up to 10 2mg "bars" or "boats" (slang terms for the 2mg xanax tabs because of their shape) one night. I remember a little from that night, too, surprisingly enough. I had just gotten 20 of them and a friend and I started popping them like candy. Then we went to the liquor store and I bought a bottle of vodka. We drank the vodka bottle and popped more until I remember breaking some of them up with my glass of vodka and snorting a few. The next day I realized we did all 20 of them, and I don't remember anything after starting to snort them. I don't even remember driving home but I did somehow! It was some messed up stuff!

Anyway, like most addicts, it is important to not necessarilly regret everything you've done in life. There is a LOT to learn from our mistakes and many mistakes can make us much stronger.

Today after I posted and ate my food that was getting cold (and it was still a little warm I'm happy to report), I did something I haven't done in a long time: I decided to play some online video games on my Xbox 360. It was very fun. I hadn't played in a long time, but I really enjoyed myself and did well. Since I am lonely with not too many people in my life, it was very fun to talk to other people via the headset and setup strategies to beat the hell out of the enemies! :)

Well anyway, I am going to watch some tv and veg out for a couple hours before bed. I will most likely check back here before then though as there's been lots of discussion in the last 24 hours!

- Dave
:D :D :D :D :D :D

750886_tn?1235640344
by priceiswright, Feb 27, 2009
Dave - do you think the OTC pills are helping you? I bought b6, b12, the l-whatever for energy and didn't really feel like they were doing anything. I thought they were actually affecting my ability to sleep but didn't make me feel energized during the day. What are you doing to beat the fatigue? Any recommendations for OTC besides those listed in the Thomas Recipe? You seem to be doing so well. It's so INSPIRING to see people doing so well.

Emily - I LOVE your stories. You are such a kind person. Always willing to help even in the most crappy of circumstances. I'm so proud of you for coming of klonopin.

Marie - WOW! You are such a supportive amazing girlfriend/wife. My BF knows I'm going through this but I don't think he could be as supportive as you are (even though he is VERY supportive). Conquering the drug as a "we" instead of only letting tommy conquer it on his own. He is lucky to have you.

Emergee - 3 months and alll the financial stress. I am so sorry but so PROUD. You could easily turn to drugs to deal with stress and yet you aren't. That is AMAZING.

Fred - I hardly know you but I was thinking of you not only as a mentor, but kind of a psuedo-dad. You give such good advice. I think your kids, wife, grand kids, and anyone in your life is lucky to have you. I hope you know how inspiring you are.

Oh FRIENDS  - why can't we all live close by and have coffee? I feel like you are family.

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE.

689267_tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Feb 27, 2009
Hi Everyone,

I havent posted lately as I have been busy with school. But, I have been trying to read up on you all when I get a few minutes.
I am so happy to see all the new people and truly wish you all the best in the war on tramadol
TRAMADOL *****!!

Price, I have to say your posts have really struck a chord within me. I, too, have issues with cravings.
I like the feeling I get with some pain pills. I have actully been struggling with this for quite awhile now.
Tramadol doesnt  appeal to me right now  at all.(THANK GOD).    However, vicodin and percocet do appeal to me.........
pretty much all the time. I havent talked too much about this on here, or to anyone at home, but it seems to becoming sort of a problem.  
See, my husband has a severe back problem. chronic problems, multiple surgeries, etc.etc...............and.............he has a script for percs. So, whenever I get a headache, I will "borrow"  one or two from his bottle. Of course, borrow is a stupid word because I have no idea of how to put them back. Anyways, the bottom line is, I like the feeling I get from them. BUT only while it lasts. After it goes away (which is very quickly) I feel like I have a hangover, and get all mad at myself.
That is, until the next time I want to take one. I feel like I am slipping back into an old pattern. Only, trams were always available, and now I have to "plan". OOHHHH, I am so stupid! stupid,dumb,idiot. I KNOW BETTER.

WTF??

Sorry to be suzidowner, but its all about honesty,right?

PS.  EMERGEE- Big hug to you my buddy!!  
sorry to hear you are feeling so bad......................hey, can I join you on the beach?


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by kes68, Feb 28, 2009
Suzie,

Slippery slope is an understatement - recovery has many stages - and unfortunately cravings are part of early recovery - the longer you are clean, the less the cravings.  Try distracting yourself when the cravings hit - I have started painting the baseboards in my home - a job I can pick up, or put down quickly if it starts to stress me out - but I like painting, it keeps me busy, and before you know it - the craveing has passed.
If you can - tell your husband - get him to get his prescriptions out of your reach - opiates are highly addictive - and while the withdrawal may not be as bad as tram - it is no picnic.
And the addiction will do the same to your life as the tram!  
You are right - honesty is the only way we can help each other battle our demons.
Please be careful!

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by FinallyFred, Feb 28, 2009
Hello Everyone.  One or two serious things before I go entirely GOOFY on you all.

Suzie, Any red blooded self respecting addict can relate.  You aren't stupid or dumb for what you are a borrowin'.  Who among us wouldn't like to take the occassional perc?  Men and women take pills because we like the affect it has on us.  But like Kes said, it's a slippery slope...more like a cliff actually.  We won't LOVE you less if you keep a borrowin' pills, but SUZI,  talk to your husband and ask him to lock up his pills.

Kes and Price,  Wow, what valuable insights you guys are sharing about addiction and relapse.   I'm serious as a heart attack.  This place is like a cool drink for hot aching feet with your recent posts.  Heartfelt, experience based stuff.  You both ROCK!  

************************
That's it for any attempt of seriousness at this hour.

Please forgive me this ONE goofy post this week.  I'll try to be all stern and serious and motivational next time.  Don't expect to get any life changing ideas out of this MEASELY middle of the night post.  

Old Fred is up late again as is my habit on Friday nights/Saturday mornings.  (Yeah, old Fred and old Bob Dole are up late tonight)  Sorry,  Too much of that bad coffee at that meeeting I went to Friday night...at that place where those of us who are "allergic to those 5 liter boxes of wine" go to meet sometimes.   (reaches to swat at missing box)

I hope all you good people are sleeping now.  Except mabye our friends in the UK and Australia.  Lassie?  LASSIE?  Come home Lassie?

I guess everyone except Roger and me here are  too young to remember that show.  Lassie?

Price, Please stop gushing.  It's embarrassing.  STOP THAT!  (smiles while looking at the toolbar for the smiley face)  And when you said, "you give such good advice. I think your kids, wife, grand kids, and anyone in your life is lucky to have you",  all I could think was that I NEED TO HAVE YOU OVER SOON FOR DINNER SO YOU CAN TELL THEM ALL THIS.  Cause somewhere in a book I read, I can recall that it is written, "no man is a prophet in his own city/home ( or whatever)".  (KC, your help is required again!)

The fact is, I don't really claim to know much about this thing.  Others here can give you the chemical analysis of this or that.  But I am willing to tell you what it was like for me, what happened, and what it's like now.  And I do admit to getting more than a little passionate when I talk about  this thing. But  I am still figuring this thing out as I go folks.  All I got now is that  today I didn't have to use tramadol and for that I am really grateful.  

emergee, I am sorry to hear how things are going 4 ya .  It's good to know you are alive anyway.  (hugs)  Like Suzi said, that beach sounds DEVINE.  Sign me up for a month of surf, sand and sunshine.   I  will bring down a couple bags of french roast?  We could build a fire on the beach and cook up some "cowboy coffee".  Or order up a round of lattes for beach delivery - I'm buying.  And we could roll out our sleeping bags and tee hee until the wee hours of the morning.  And celebrate small victories together.  Anon, would you help me build the fire?  Seriously, I know it will never happen, but what a HOOT it would be to get together some day.  All you who dear Emily brought together through her interwebs.  

Emily, does that beach vacation come with our membership here?  An all expense paid trip to a hot beach somewhere?  To laugh and hoot about all the forks we have lost during our tram years?  Won't that $1,700. you had me send to you cover something like a beach vacation Emily?   Tell us about our membership rights?  I'm kinda curious.  :)

And fittingly, I will close by rebutting msmarie's foreknowledge that I am a "biker".  Naw, that's not actually accurate.  Not that I would care what you think msmarie, but I am actually a straight laced (DRUG ADDICT), slightly overweight (DRUG ADDICT), middle aged (DRUG ADDICT), modestly skilled attorney (DRUG ADDICT), who prefers rIding in shorts or jeans over leathers (DRUG ADDICT), who rarely rides in packs with other bikers (DRUG ADDICT), lacking any real tatoos (DRUG ADDICT),  or biker garb (DRUG ADDICT), who just happens to like to ride a motorcycle. (DRUG ADDICT).  

But not that I would care what you think about me (DRUG ADDICT) msmarie.

It's a wrap guys.  Peace, love and charity and all that rot.

Tomorrow it's back to Mr. serious Fred the motivational speaker.   Watch out!!

Fred

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by KC67, Feb 28, 2009
Just a quick post to tell everyone that today is Day 20 for me - TRAM FREE - cold turkey!

I got good sleep last night and am actually HAPPY - not panicky as was the feeling I have woken up to all this week.  I am even going to the "Monster Truck Show" with my family today.  So that says something...I am actually excited about going to a place where there will be a zillion people and a LOT of noise!  I could never have even attempted this 20 days ago!  It feels really great to be excited about getting out and doing something.  Today - day 20 - one day closer to "NORMAL".

Fred, you are so funny!  I LOVE LOVE LOVE the idea of all of us getting together on a beach and drinking cowboy coffee!  It would be a new stylish trend  - TA (Tram Anonymous) Meetings on the beach!  If there were a way to make this happen, it would be awesome for all of us.  To be amongst non-judgmental friends, sharing our victories, our defeats, and encouraging each other to "keep on keepin' on" because it is a choice between life and death.  

Fred, to "help you out" as you requested above, the quote is from Luke 4:24 "No prophet is accepted in his hometown" - which is why we MUST all go to Mexico to have this reunion - as far as I know no one on this post has a hometown on a beach in Mexico!  LOL.

Talk to ya'll soon (as we say here in the South),
KC67

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by suzipen, Feb 28, 2009
Oh, I am home again.

I have a few things to say before I get all serious on ya.

Um, yea Emily...............does that $1700. cover a beach vacation?  Coz if it does then COUNT ME IN!  
It would be really cool to meet ya'll and do a vacation together! :)  Of course, we may not ending up liking each other, ya know. Just kidding.  I think it would be awesome.
Hey, Emily, how big is your house? ..................Room for us all???

Oh Freddy,(may I call you that today?)............you totally make me laugh! You can bring your bike and take us all rides!
And, FYI,  I prefer caramel lattes, with whipped cream.)
*******************************************************************************************************************************************

(Voice gets much more serious now)

Thanks Fred and Kes. I didnt take anything yesterday.
Tramadol doesnt even enter my mind, thank goodness! Today I know I wont touch that stuff with a 10 foot pole.
Like you said, Freddy, for that I am really grateful.

I have,however been trying to fiqure out WHY I want the high feeling all the time. Othe than just liking it, which I do.
I know we all have pasts, and yucky stuff that has happened that we try to forget......................
But, this is hard. Way harder than I ever imagined.
My husband looked in his bottle yesterday and FREAKED. He will run out before his refill. He doesnt abuse them, and he really doesnt even like to take pills, but he has to right now to get thru the day, until his next "miracle"surgery.
There are days he cant get out of bed due to pain. And here I am , stealing his meds to get high. That is wrong.
But, now he knows, and he has them hidden, or maybe locked up.
Of course, I had to endure a lecture first. Which I very politely sat thru and just nodded.
I know hes right.......................................but he better keep 'em hidden pretty good.

I finished my STNA classes with a 97%. I really wanted a 100%. I missed 1 question on 1 test and it cost me 3%. :(
But I am really excited to start working. Our local hospital has some openings, and I think I want to start there.
And then pick up some weekends at a nursing home. (I hate to call them that, they are really long term care facilities)
VERY rewarding work. And when I was there, I didnt crave , um drugs,(hate that word too)
I was too busy helping others, that I just kinda forgot about it.
Now I am preparing for my RN classes. YAY!!! so excited about this! :)
So,yes Kes, distraction is such a help when cravings hit. I wish the weather was nicer here so I could get out and walk.
I love to walk, but Ohio isnt great for that this time of year.

Price, I am right there with ya looking for a NA or PA meeting. I need that very much right now.
I THOUGHT I would be fine without it, but I realized I need it.

To ALL of you,
I hope you have a great productive day!

love, suzi

PS
Emily.........................dont forget about the vacation!


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by suzipen, Feb 28, 2009
Hi KC,
I missed your post as I was writing mine!
Congrats on day 20!!
Have fun at the Monster Truck Show!! Yea, there will be tons of people there.
You Go Girl!!               (That is SO something I do not normally say)

Have a Great day!
suzi

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by emergee, Feb 28, 2009
i really really appreciate the comments about a benzo withdrawal.   knowing that it cause wipeout ,  hyperemotionality, and irritability is extremely helpful.   i am doing a slow slow taper.  from 1 mg to now,  .25 /day.  
i don't want to take a tram but i do want a klonopin to alleviate the fear level from my financial situation.  ( which i am sure tram had something to do with,  i believe i would have been more alert , and been able foresee some of what has happened).
i have had my first anxiety attack .  nasty experience.  

i can't tell you how grateful i am to read other's accounts of their benzo experience.   somehow the tram thing was so dramatic and disruptive i have been discounting the effects of benzo wd,  thinking it was no big deal.  

abuser,  it is hilarious to think of a guy breaking down crying because his team lost!  

suzi,  i would have a hard time with opiates in the medicine cabinet. that is a tough situation.  whereas,   i have a whole bottle of trams and the idea makes me sick.  

emily,  the experience you had rescuing your co-worker is exactly the thing i try to avoid.  i am barely dealing here.  i am super isolating ,  love staying at home in my foxhole.  

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by suzipen, Feb 28, 2009
Big hug to you Emergee.
I truly wish we could get together. I think we would be great friends.
I havent even attempted to go off ativan. The thought terrifies me. But, you are actually showing amazing strength in going off a benzo now. You are stronger than you think.
love,suzi

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by emergee, Feb 28, 2009
and emily ,  about being stupid... i have been very sad about my decrease in intelligence.   i just thought it was permanent.  brain cells just wore out...

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by priceiswright, Feb 28, 2009
KC - You are awesome. I remember when you first wrote about how you were ready to quit and declare war and you did. You are on the right path. I'm SO proud of you. I can't wait til I'm back on day 20 - only 17 more days to go. :)

Fred - Oh you make me laugh!!!!!!!!!! Does your family know how you make us all laugh and inspire and motivate us? I bet they'd be very proud.

Suzi - the cravings for opiates suck. I don't have cravings for trams but if my BF had a bottle of percs sitting in the med cabinet right now, I wouldn't be able to stop myself. BUT, I think him hiding them is the best thing for you. Because having those near you might be another addiction to battle. I really think PA or NA meetings will help. So far I've heard better things about PA. I'll let you know how it goes. If you google search for meetings in your area, you can find them pretty easily. Your honesty really helps. It is so nice to be able to be so honest.

Getting ready to do some housework and paint!!!





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by KC67, Feb 28, 2009
Another quick post before I go to the "Monster Truck" show.

Suzi - completely understand the need to feel "high"  -  to numb feelings and just NOT feel.  I would have done the same thing if my husband had some Hydros laying around.  There is something magnetic about the desire to be "high" whether it be via alcohol, drugs, food, or whatever.  With me, it is going to be a lifelong battle - I know myself so much better now and I know that one pill will lead to MANY pills.  There is no such thing as control with me.  So thank you for your honesty - you are expressing the desires of probably so many individuals on this forum.  As for your schooling, I am so proud of your 97%.  I KNOW how hard medical school is (I endured it for a short time) and an "A" is an "A" and a 97% is a HIGH "A".  So YOU GO GURL (sometimes we spell it like that in the South)!  I love it!  Thanks for saying it to me!  Also, I think it would be wonderful if you pursued a career in a Long-Term Assisted Living Facility.  The elderly NEED kind, caring, thoughtful individuals like yourself in this field.  You will be awesome.

Emergee - Hang in there.  There are a lot of us on benzo's on this forum (including me).  You are not alone and it's ok to want to stay in your foxhole.  Today is the first day I have even had the desire to get out of my "hole".  From what I have heard, either from benzo withdrawal or Tram. withdrawal, there is a period of just taking second by second and if that means a dark (cold or wam) room with no visitors - than that's okay too.  ((Hugs to you))  I hope your financial situation gets better soon.  Believe me, I can relate.

PriceIsRight - I am so happy you are back.  I will never forget your words right before MY Day 1 where you encouraged me to wage war on this drug, Tramadol.  You are so wise and I know you can do this.  I related to your story before I even began this 20 day journey and I can honestly say that it could easily be me who had (will have) a relapse with Trams.  Right now I am still in furious war - grateful for each "daily reprieve" that I am blessed with - and I am aware that the Trama-voices are still VERY strong at day 20.   Thank you for coming back and for sharing your story.  You are an inspiration to me and I am pulling for ya!

Kes, Kev (where are ya Kev???), Fred, Matthew, Dave, Abuser, Heather,  & Everyone - and especially EMILY - thanks for all of your stories.  YOU ALL are the reason I am here.  I check in as often as I can because I am encouraged by all of you and am so grateful for your unconditional support.


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by MsMarie1981, Feb 28, 2009
hey everyone :)

Tommy asked me to post for him today.  Its a good day for us.  Thursday afternoon he took his last quarter pill and flushed the rest.  I was surprised at how emotional it made me to see him empty the bottle into the toilet---i burst out sobbing and I dont even have tram withdrawals as an excuse!  It was the first time i think in a while that i've really felt more hope than fear, and i think i was overwhelmed with relief that our future will be mine and Tommy's, not trams.

So he's now on day 2 of recovery and feeling surprisingly well.  I dont want to jinx it but tapering may have helped, he's a little sore and soaking in a mineral bath now. He had some stomach pains last night, but overall nothing like what you all have described yet.  I think we're going to even get out of the house this evening for dinner and a movie.  We keep having to remind ourselves that tramadol's withdrawals can be random and we're not trying to get too ahead of ourselves, but so far so good.

Do any of you know anyone who did a slow taper and avoided bad withdrawals that way?  I would want to stop boring everyone with the details of his tapering and what its like if this information is old news :)

****FRED*******
Oh Fred!   I hope i didn't offend you!!  I meant "biker" with the utmost affinity :)  I think it sounded like i pictured you with a big Grizzly Adams beard and a bandanna tied around your bicep and a gruff voice and a leather vest that reads "Sober Rider" and a propensity for beating rival bike gang members with bike chains . (although that could be cool too --- did i get carried away with that description? haha)  Fred your writing shows warm sensibility -- you seem to be a bit of a sage with a palpable independent streak that I apparantly associate with motorcycles.  Which is my very very very humble and remote opinion, for what its worth :)  But who wants the opinion of an overemotional sympathy-eating amazon woman anyways? :)

Big hugs everyone, keep on keepin on :)

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by kes68, Feb 28, 2009
First of all - why did I have to pay more than $1700??  Did the rate go up in the New Year Emily?  And the trip - that's excellent - I was already thinking it was money well spent, what with all the knowledge and entertainment value I get out of this post.  But the idea of meeting on the beach - more than I could have expected!  Just give me enough notice to find my bikini (lol - if you knew me you would know how funny this is)

Fred - I can't wait to get my bike out - our Canadian winters make the season very short here!

I feel like this forum has become the "Far Side" of addiction.  Humour is a great way to get out of our suffering, yet still focus on recovery.

Suzie - I am glad the pills are out of your reach for now.  I know I am a big fan of avoiding reality, numbing out - when times are tough - a pill beats the hell out of emotions for me.  That's the sucky part of this process - it's not about just stopping - it's about learning to live once you've stopped - what to turn to instead of that pill.  I would not be able to resist if any other opiate was in my reach - sometimes in the begining it is just about having temptation removed until we get stronger.  Hang in there - you are doing it!

MsMarie - I am more than happy to hear about the struggle you both are going through - I am at the begining of tapering, and hoping to be able to do this slow enough so I can keep functioning - my main reason for the taper is that I cannot be off my game for any time - I run my own business, and there is no room for time off right now.

KC - you are doing great - 20 days!! Take care of yourself - you are 20 days closer to getting your life back!

I am going down to 13 tomorrow - and except for the bizzare incedent a few days ago, I've been doing okay.  Mild headach, and waves of extreme tiredness - but that is about it.  Hopefull, as the weather gets nicer, and I keep lowering my dose - I will be able to use fresh air and walking to keep me going.

(just me that wishes there was a spell check on this??)

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by HOPEreturns, Feb 28, 2009
Good day to all!!

As usual have not been able to keep up with all of the posts...... As I have been scanning some of them, one of them caught my eye.....

PRICE..... In my eyes, you are successful in beating this drug!  You are SUCCESSFUL, because you realize that it is toxic and you are pushing it away the best you can.  You are SUCCESSFUL, because you are no longer in denial.  You are moving forward and seeking help and support.  


EMILY... I hope the withdrawals are almost over for you!  Sorry I havent been much support lately.  I think my job is trying to kill me.  Working me to death, but good for me.   Keeps me from finding tramadol trouble!

HI FRED, SUZI, EMERGEE and anyone else I have forgotten.  Welcome aboard to all of the newcomers!

Smiles! HOPE



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by MsMarie1981, Feb 28, 2009
Oh and I wanted to mention  a few notes to price and kes and AnonDave  

***Price****
Thank you for your sweet words.  I'm pretty sure all the things I am doing to be "supportive" are just things i do to distract myself to keep myself from disintegrating from stress.  haha  Yes I'm the worrying type :) I'm glad you were able to talk to your BF about it.  Tommy didn't tell me about his habit for two years, and I'll admit it hurts me that he was alone without my support when he was using. Not that i'd support it, but I think of how lonely it must have been for him to struggle with his addiction alone....it makes me sad he had to live in fear that I wouldn't find out and abandon him.  Anyways I think about that kind of stuff lot and I'm glad you can share your situation with your BF and that you have his support, too.  

You asked if anyone was getting off of tram without any other drugs -- Tommy doesn't take anything else.  I made him a "recovery gift basket" with a bunch of stuff in it including vitamins that people have recommended on this site.  And he'll take a dose of tylenol or excedrine once or twice a day, but other than that, vitamins and pizza are all that goes into his system :)   He's taking a Vitamin B12 that has something like 16667% of his daily allowance of vitamin B, which is funny because i'm pretty sure that he's eating 16667% of his daily allowance of pizza right now :) haha!  Maybe thats the secret to his success :)


****Kes***
Good luck with your taper.  Its a pain in the buns and it goes on forever but we have our fingers crossed that Tommy will not be incapacitated for long and will be able to go to work by Wednesday at the latest.  Sometimes I wish it were me  becuase i could take 3 weeks off if i needed too, but many like you and Tommy don't have the luxury.  We'll keep you posted as to how its going.

****Dave***
congrats on staring down that bottle of hydrocodone!  I'd high five you if i could!  I hope you're impressed with yourself! I'm impressed with you.


I hope you're all having a beautiful weekend super tramadol warriors. big hugs.

Have a good evening guys.  


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by AnonGuy2, Feb 28, 2009
Hey everyone!

There's tons of activity lately and that's great-- especially for the newer people!

I just wanted to say that for the second day in a row now, I have felt very, very normal. Work is the best distraction, to be honest. I've worked over the last 10 days now and although some days, especially the first few back, I felt so horrible most of the time, in the end it was much better than feeling horrible at home, all alone.

But enough with that negative talk. Yesterday and today have been great. I have been my usual self at work and everyone perceives me as the same focused, driven, and productive person I was for the years I was on tramadol. As a matter of fact, I am better now as I am a more caring person who enjoys the more simpler things. I am finding myself laughing and telling more jokes than usual. It's funny because when I go into the breakroom and I see those coworkers who are sitting there looking all sad and down and tired I think to myself, "I feel a little tired too and I'm not happy about having to work hard since it's the weekend, but I am going to smile and enjoy my time, unlike them." So I'll find myself talking to those people, trying to cheer them up. It really is nice.

I have a lot of soreness and an overall sense of being really tired sometimes but that's what work does and it's a NORMAL thing to feel so who cares!

I remember this way of normal feeling very well. I used to always be this person, before tramadol. As a matter of fact, it reminds me of how, before tramadol, I would always be this person but the only difference is, back then, I would be looking forward to the weekend and partying it up with drugs and/or alcohol. I am so over that junk now, though. I am a much better, stronger person who doesn't need to party-it-up on the weekends. So I'm going to spend my time tonight enjoying some movies or something and guess what? I'm completely fine with that!

The main thing that still really needs to fall into place for me now is how I sleep. I am still sleeping by tossing and turning a LOT, even though I can get 8-10 hours no problem. I am sure that will slowly improve over time and I'm fully prepared for it to take a couple more weeks or so if need be. So that's fine with me!

- Dave
akaDaveLovingLife
akaDave'sHappy
akaDave'sSoOverIt :D

PS: KC, I am glad you're in the same boat I am now! Woo-hoo!

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by Matt1053, Feb 28, 2009
Hey All,

It's been a few days since I posted.  I am now finishing up day 33 cold off the tram. I don't want to bum anybody out but I still have the feeling of general lethargy and weakness during the day.  Good freak'n greif.  Sleep is better.  I started drinking some kind of sleepy time tea.  Someone mentioned L-tryptapan (or whatever it's called).  Is that even available.  I know some years ago it was yanked off the shelves due to some weired blood desiese or something.  Man, that stuff will make you sleep.
(trust me, I had a horrible meth addiction in the 80's and that stuff would just make me crash fast and get to sleep)
Anyway.. health food stores?  if it is available.

Yeah, today I did think about how the evil "T" would give me a boost of energy.  I just get to feeling "drained" during the day.
And still general "flu like" symptoms.  This is getting old.  I'm tripp'n.  I'm assuming this is still part of the withdrawl from four years of use and a boatload of pills per day.  (near 20 per day at the end)...

I spoke to my brother last nite and he told me he had taken a fall and ended up in the emergancy room with like 20 staples in his head.  Ouch!!  Then he starts to tell me they perscribed percocet to him.  "This **** just makes me sleepy" all I do is sleep he says.  Now picture me (or Homer Simpson) "mmmmmm..............sleeeee---eeeep"  Wow, what's that like?
He absolutely hates the stuff and I'm freak'n drooling over the phone.

Again, it's strange...  the weakness thing actualy had me "jonesing" (craving) a little today.  For a second or two, I thought maybe I left a little stash in the glovebox of my car... or ... maybe I stashed a couple here of there (I always had an emergancy stash in places I knew I would be in, like my car or work or wherever)

Of course, my brain reminds me of what I have been through the last couple of months, the hospital, the vodka binge, the cardiac ward, the wreakage I've created, the "hell to pay" I knew I would have to face eventualy.  Knock Knock...

Man, I do not want to have to start at the begining again.  No freak'n way.  So, I called a buddy and got on another track, and moved on.  I guess, I just want to share that it's strange still going through the lethargy / weakness, and occasional insomnia after this much time.  

Ok, let me correct myself. Strange yes, but WAY freak'n irritating.

Tomorrow (Sunday)  I'm gonna hang with my daughter. She's 14 and I pretty much disapeared for the month of January.  I know she's always at least suspected or problebly known about the pills for a while. She knows fully and completly that her dad is an alcoholic (in recovery most of the time) and a drug addict from the "old days".  She knows that is why her mother and I no longer reside together.

I've seen her once since getting out of the hospital. Two Sundays ago we just had brunch in the neighborhood.  I live in Chicago and she and her mom live about four blocks from here. It's always been very casual between the three of us.
Joint custody and my daughter can hang with me anytime she feels like it, or if I ask, or if shes' getting on her moms' last nerve she occasionally gets "exciled" to her dads pad.

I mentioed the hospital and how detox is now part of the phcyc ward.  No shoelaces allowed. We had a few laughs as she is fairly mature for her age and reads books that are fairly deep for a kid.

I know I have to make some things straight with her, but for now, just "showing up" and being a dad is going to have to do.

I've got to get through some other "steps" (Fred knows) and reach a point where I am capable of really making things straight.
not just "I'm sorry I wasn't there for an entire month"... I've got to get to:  "I'm sorry I haven't been  there on a clear basis for the last four years"... That step is down the road.

For now... I'll just try to be the best dad I can be.

Gonna run.  I've got a little burst of energy here (mmmmmm.......coff--feee...) so I'm getting the laundry done and general housecleaning.  

Hang tough y'all.

Matthew



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by tramhater, Feb 28, 2009
THE USUAL CAPLOCK WOMAN IS BACK! WOW SO MUCH TO CATCH UP ON... SOOOO. I AM ON DAY 9 I THINK. I HAVE BEEN SLEEPING WELL AND THINGS ARE ALMOST BACK TO NORMAL. WELL KINDA! JUST STILL TIRED MORE THAN NORMAL, BUT OTHER THAN THAT DOING WELL! STILL TALKING TO THE DOCTOR... HE IS STILL GOOD...

OK.. MY SON WON''T SLEEP SO I HAVE TO CUT THIS SHORTER THAN I THOUGHT...

EMILY!! LOVE THE PARKA HUMOR... IF I KNEW WHO YOU REALLY WERE YOU WOULD GET A GRAMMY FROM ME.....

DAVE.. MISS THE CHATS! I AM PROUD OF WHAT YOU HAVE OVERCOME WITH THE HYDROCODONE.. WOOW!
HOW ARE YOU BEEN ALTOGETHER TODAY?

SHADREE// WHERE YOU ARE GIRL?
UGGGGH WILL HAVE TO WRITE MORE LATER...

LOVE
HEATHER

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by FinallyFred, Mar 01, 2009
You are ALL making me smile reading the posts over the past 24 hours.  I am smiling and I keep blinking my eyeballs -wondering what I ever did to deserve FINDING such a GIFT as you all.  So much compassion, sensativity, humor,  concern for others, HONESTY, and carefully chosen articulation of the things that matter to others making tas we make this  journey together.   You helped keep me clean today.  Thank you.

But Emily, you are going to have to tell us what you did with that money we sent to you.  From what others have shared, the rates have gone up beyond the $1,700. I sent  you.   And everyone is clammerin' over the arrangments you have made for our much anticipated beach retreat....when you have time.  :)  (again, looking for that 24 font smiley face here!)

Matthew, I am hoping that your Sunday with your daughter goes swimmingly.  Unfortunately, for many of us (me included), our past lives cannot permit us to be PERFECT parents in an imperfect world.  .  Sadly, I went through a divorce myself when our boys were 14 and 16.  Not proud of that - it was the biggest failure of my entire life, but it was survival mode for me at the time.    And I had to fight through the NUMB  and GUILT at the time  to make that effort to regularly see my sons during those years.   Since this real life stuff DOES impact our sobriety, I think that it worth talking about.  Hanging out, honesty and a demonstration of our sincere love for our kids works at any age.  So yeah, I know about fighting through the wreckage of my past, to get me the best chance at today.  

If we allow our past to dictate our today, we are screwed from the start.

I know a young mom who is recently sober, who grieves daily because the state took her kids away.  They probably had a right to.  To say that this sort of wreckage doesn't affect her sobriety today is (insert your own word).  Yet we each MUST find a way to let go of our past demons in order to stay clean today.

Real life stuff; like financial problems, worry for our kids (or the kids we cannot have), relationship problems (or lack thereof) and the multitude of STRESSORS of life can steel the joy of the moment from us.  And these things can pose a problem for my continued sobriety. If I allowed all the stuff from my past to dictate my present actions, I am one lost puppy dog today.  My boys (yes, they are probably older than some who post here Price) spent an evening with us, along with the grandkids.  This helps to provide me with present evidence that my past need not become my today.  

Some times in life, there really ARE are happy endings.  The love that my boys continue to show me by their willingness to regularly spend time with me remains one of the most affirming blessings of my life.  

Thanks a long way of saying, Matthew, enjoy your day today with Sweetness.  

*******

I was at one of those meetings Friday night, where those of us "allergic to 5 liter boxes of wine" hang out. A "birthday night", which is to say that individuals' sober days were celebrated.  One woman celbrated 24 hours.  Another celebrated 17 years.  And trust me, the person who had 24 hours was much more exciting for me to bear witness to, than the man who had 17 years.  

I'm thinking we have some TRAM birthdays to celebrate right now:  Price, 3 days.  TommyBoy, 3 days? Heather, 9 days.   Dave, 17 days?  KC, 20 days. .  Matthew, 33 days.  Kes, you have a sound taper plan goin on.  And I am sure I am missing some, but this is not to ignor, but rather, it simply reflects on  my feeble mind.  Sorry others.

Kes, I still remember that first day you stopped by this room.  That day you said that you didn't feel like you belonged.  That you felt "less than".  I am certainly glad for us all that you stuck around.  

I heard someone say recently that our sober and clean days are simply THAT number of days or hours BETWEEN PILLS. I wasn't sure at first that   At first, I wasn;'t sure I  liked the rude implication of that thought...that my sober and clean days were simply time between pills.  That my clean days were simply keeping space between my last tram and my next pill.  But on further contemplation, I can accept the implication because it underscores the fragile nature of my sobrieity...that my battle is not EVER fully won.  

All of that stuff I referenced above can and will raise it's ugly head at any moment.  And when it does, I will be faced with the same choices that I had on my very FIRST day off taking this little white pill.  Take the pill, die, or not take the tramadol.

Lighter fare:

Yes, Kes, let's hope for an early spring or at least a few dry weather days soon.

Dave, I am saying a little prayer that you get some more solid sleep nights. Nothing about this withdrawal is worse then sleep depervation - in any amount.

Price, I am sorry that you relapsed, but you have learned and shared some important lessons in the past few weeks.  Here's something to think about:  Relapse need not be part of your FUTURE ever again.  

Heather, I have to say, your old doc has really done a fabulous job helping you through your withdrawal.  Stick with the guy.  Very impressive.

And finally, msmarie, Nope, you didn't offend me one bit with your "biker" comment.but "shifting gears quickly" this is probably a good time to tell you...when you first came on this site, I will admit that my first reaction was , "why doesn't this poor woman allow her tommyboy to do this for himself".  But what you and Tommyboy have demonstrated is a BEAUTIFUL loving partnership working rightly for his desire to get free from the trams.  He's ONE LUCKY GUY.  And we are all so much more the richer, for sharing your story with the rest of us.  

Ado...Fred

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by suzipen, Mar 01, 2009
Hey Guys,
I too, like Fred, am smiling today as I read all the posts. It is quite an amazing place to be. I feel blessed to have found it.
I do believe I will not take tramadol today.
BTW, I am 101 days clean! Yep...................so it CAN be done!

And I cant wait til the beach get-together! I just need some advance notice as I am still trying to get this 15 pound post-tram weight off!!  He-he!

Heather, It is GREAT that you're getting sleep at day 9! That didnt happen for me until much much later. Good for you!

Matthew, I hope you have a wonderful time with your daughter. I have a son that same age, and I have had to talk to him about tramadol. They are soooooooo observant arent they. Sometimes I really have to take myself back to that age in my head and remember what it was like. (and sometimes that scares the he77 out of me!) I wasnt exactly an angel, ya know.
She is lucky to have a dad like you.
A lot of the time, just showing up and being a good parent is enough. :)

Dave, I remember only to well the days of waiting for the weekend so I could party-it-up!  Now, its nice just to get my jammies on and watch movies with the kids. I am a BIG jammie person. That is always the first thing I do when I get home-put my comfy jammies on. Anyways, I agree that work can be a great distraction, and I cant wait to get a new job.
And the sleep thing will come. It just takes time. Your actually lucky to be getting as much as you do!

KC, Thanks for your kind words. BTW, when did you go to medical school? For how long? Why did you stop?
I know, lots of questions..............but I am so interested in this area now. NEVER would I have dreamed I would be pursuing a career in healthcare.Never.

Kes, Good job with the taper! 13 today, huh?   And, YES, I wish we had spell check on here.
Nuthing maks me feel les inteligint thin mispeleeng a wurd!

HI HOPE!!  ((Big Hug to you)) ..............just because. :)

Marie,   I also think it is wonderful that you and Tommy can get thru this together. My husband would never come on here and talk to you all for me.
When ever I am on here for any length of time, he'll ask me if I am talking to my "wack-o" friends!
And I just say.............. um yea.
Now, dont take offense..................he isnt being mean. Thats just his humor.(quite stupid humor actually) :)
He knows how important everyone here is to me.

Alright, gotta go,
Have a great day!

love,suzi






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by abuser, Mar 01, 2009
I'm trying the taper thing...I'm down to 250mg the last few days and notice no discomfort....I guess I should cut to a lower dose. I think Once I find a dose that I find minor discomfort at, I'll stick w/ that dose until the discomfort goes away, then cut back again, etc.

I think that when I'm finally completely off this stuff, I seem to get the restless leg syndrome and that's it for physical symptoms. I get slightly lazy, and significantly depressed...How do you guys deal w/ the depression? If I taper successfully, it shouldnt be as bad, but I'd still like to know how you guys deal w/ it....

Tapering has been successful so far because I gave my 'scrip to my mom, she put it in a safe and gives me my dose in the afternoon. This has been really helpful...

Also, depression is nothing new to me...I've tried SO MANY antidepressent and they have only made me feel worse. I've withdrawn many times from antidepressents, so this depression will be pretty familiar to me...

Anyways, tramadol *****! I've abused pretty much every drug imaginable and I've never even had to CONSIDER tapering before. My tolerance to pain meds will probably help me. I think the FEAR of withdrawal is the worst...

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by Shadetree, Mar 01, 2009
Abuser...
I so can relate. I am tapering right now too. And depression is what gets to me, pretty severly too. One day about 3 weeks ago, I decided I wasnt going to take anymore. I got severe anxiety and depression. not to mention feeling dizzy and out of control. Thats when I knew I would have to taper. I am at about 200mgs a day right now and I plan on taking it nice and slow. I planned on decreasing by 25mgs per dose per week, but I started to have some pretty uncomfortable w/d symptoms, mainly the NO energy. I have a family, (3kids) and a full time job. Im trying to get through this while putting as little stress on my family and job. So Im just going to take it slow, as long as Im making progress, I will eventually be DONE! The depression I know will be coming as soon as I get to a low enough dose. I take wellbutrin for depression (well did before tram) and plan on getting back on it as soon as I can. I also plan to take 5htp, and start taking all my vitamins and supplements again. Exercise is a huge help with depression as well as w/d's. How much are you decreasing and how often?

Shadetree

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by HOPEreturns, Mar 01, 2009
Good evening !

Hope everyone is continuing to have a great day, and hope it carries over throughout the week.  I am winding down from today.  I have to confess something.  I feel very guilty for feeling this way, but I knew that I could talk about it here!  

Since being on a lower dose of the Trams, I am really staring to get irritated over the most minor things.  MY HUSBAND!  I love him dearly!  HOWEVER, everything he did today was sooooo irritating.  It must be due to my brain starting to awake, and am exeriencing...... um..... ya know.  LIFE again?  I guess when on the high dose of meds, I didn't even hear half of what my husband was saying.  Today, the sound of him crunching ice just went alllllll through me!  He was clearing his throat quiet often today, and I wanted to run into the street and throw my body in front of the next car that drove by!  I feel HORRIBLE and like such a biotch!  He is such a good dad and even went to the grocery store for me!  Does anyone relate to this!  I have been having these episodes on and off.  The more I try to tune certain things out....... the louder it seems to get!  I guess in the past I would have just popped open the ole' bottle of pills and consume a few extra.  That didn't happen today.  Thanks to my Tram family!!!  Anytime I think about just maybe takin an extra pill here and there.... I think of my friends in this room!

OH...... and I am all for the little "reunion" at the beach!!  Who knows??  Just might happen one day!  Again, I hope you all have a wonderful week.  

Love to all!
Hope


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by AnonGuy2, Mar 01, 2009
Hello again!

If it wasn't for the great people here and the potential to inspire others then I really wouldn't come back. Why? Simply put, I have been feeling so good lately.

I had another great day at work. Did I always want to be there? No, I was picturing myself laying down on my bed and napping at one point during the day. Then I remembered how my body is achy and restless when laying down and how I can't sleep during the day no matter what so I figured I was better off at work. The fact is, though, that there was no way in hell I was going home- I was glad to be at work making money and enduring an honest day's work like a NORMAL person. That thought of laying down to try to rest was just one of those thoughts NORMAL people have throughout their day of work. I don't want anyone to think it was anything more than that- It was just a minute or two's thought and nothing more. Again, today was a great day.

I was, as has been the trend, super-productive, very effective, very focused, driven, and on top of my game again today with lots of energy most of the time.

Each day sees my short-term memory coming back closer and closer to 100%, which is VERY important for my job because it requires me to focus on and multitask 10-20 different things every second of the day. Each day I notice myself getting more clear-minded and sharper here and I'd say I'm at 95% normal here now.

One thing that's very funny is how so many people I work with have been very sick lately. So many of them describe the ZERO energy, body aches and pains all over, and such resulting from whatever they've come down with. It's not funny that so many of them are sick, but it's funny that so many of them are experiencing some of the worst of what I was going through 1-2 weeks ago yet they're legitimately sick and not coming off a drug addiction. I feel bad for them, of course, but it's quite ironic how something's been going around that has many resemblances to my withdrawals!

My appetite today and the last two days has somewhat returned to normal, too. I eat a little bit more than I have during the many years on tramadol but I am not eating nearly as much as I was early last week.

I am just so glad that I'm getting so close to being "me" again! It's such a great feeling!

Thanks to everyone who has commented on my sleeping issues. As I've said, I am still able to get 8 hours of sleep every single night but the problem of waking up every 30-60 minutes and having tons of difficulty feeling comfortable in bed is very annoying! The only thing from keeping me going crazy over it is reminding myself, "At least you're getting sleep, and 8 hours at that!" I truly suspect that sleeping 6-8 hours without waking up once, and feeling super-comfortable in many positions while laying down without having to toss and turn all the time, will take a long time. But that's okay, I can live with that. It gives me something to strive for, anyway. :)

It's actually kind of funny all that happens each night considering my body feels like it's been in a trash compactor every night before bed (meaning it's so sore and achy each night).

Okay well enough about me! Hang in there, people! The light at the end of the tunnel is so worth it!

- Dave
:D :D :D :D :D

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by suzipen, Mar 01, 2009
Oh my goodness, Hope!!!!
Yes, I can relate..................in the earlier stages of w/d, the littlest things would just set me off. And my husband was the MOST annoying.
Strangers got on my nerves as well, but hubby got the worst of it.
You know all those cute little things they do............well, they arent so cute after tramahell.
And loud noises would set me off something crazy!! Actually, that hasnt gotten any better.

Anyway, just wanted you to know I'm in your corner on this one!

goodnight, suzi

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by emergee, Mar 02, 2009
hope,  
   that was truly hilarious to read.   ohmygod LOUD!   everything is so ******* loud.  i canNOT UNDERSTAND why people have such raucous voices. and why are they so obnoxious?    if i had children now,  i honestly think i would have to send them away.  such a *****.  

    the sad part of it is,  it is becoming part of my self-definition.  i took t for two years , and since i never realized you could get high from it,  i think i was nearly always sort of withdrawing ,  if that makes sense.  i would take 3 , and then go back to two .  anyway,  i have been insanely irritated for several years.  i have kind of taken it in as my real self.  



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by kes68, Mar 02, 2009
I can relate to the loud noises - I have little tolerence now for anything loud - the other day I had to tell my partner to be a little quieter as we talked - I don't think it was overly loud, we were not raising our voices - just a regular conversation - but a certain times my ears are really, really sensative.

Dave - you sound fantastic - I would definately miss your updates You are right it is a great motivation for me - something to strive for, and to know it is achievable.  Please be careful though - it sounds as though from others that the withdrawal can come and go - sometimes if we get too up about something - the crash is a little harder if it changes.
Stick around - we would miss you, and I do think support in early recovery is really important - now that you have your life back - you want to make sure you keep it!!.

I have actually dropped down to 12 today, and will try this for a week.  I have had a few symptoms, but nothing that has slowed me down.  I guess I am just getting anxious to get this over with - so if I can drop 2 pills this week - great.  I figure the taper will slow down once I get to the final few pills.
I know I am not racing through this - and part of me feels like a bit of a wussy for not just dumping them all.  I think I started my taper around the same time as KC went CT.  She is now 20 days(?) or so clean - and I've only droped from 18 to 12.  I am still taking 12 a day!
I guess I just have to hold onto the idea that this taper will work, and that I will be able to function throughout - keep my business going, and just be patient about it.  
I know many are skeptical about tappering - but for me - the desire to use more is not really there - I haven't been able to get that feeling, that high for a long time, no matter how much I took.  Basically, I just kept going up so I didn't feel crappy.  I just need to keep the goal is sight when I do start to feel the low energy, headaches etc - remind myself what I am trying to get free of.
That is why I have you guys - keep me focused and on track!          

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by Matt1053, Mar 02, 2009
Hey all,

Again, thanks everyone for being here and for the insight on your own struggles which has helped me with mine.

UPDATE:
I spent yesterday afternoon with my daughter (14 yrs old). It was casual and good. We just hung out, got a beef (a chicago thing) and hit a bookstore and did a little shopping for barbie clothes.  (she only recently got into barbie as someone gave her a couple of "collectables")  Actually, she never owned a doll per sey. Anyway, it was cool.  I mentioned in passing how over the years we all have sort of made light of dads alcoholism and past drug addictions. So I reminded her that even though we make light of the past that it's serious stuff.  And yeah, there was some incidents that bear laughing about in the past, it's serious stuff.  Stuff is gonna kill me,, like ... dead, kill me. and that's not a laughing matter.

She's not one of many words, so she agreed and that was good.  I always tell her: "steer clear of the alcohol and drugs, and keep your freak'n pants on and you'll have a better shot at a future".  As you can imagine, I do worry. Every one of my siblings (four) have had major issues with either booze or dope or both. Ya know, if there is a genetic thing or whatever.

We stopped at  at GNC (nutrition store) and I scored (ooops, purchased) some L-triptaphan. I'ts an amino acid supplement that I used years ago for promoting better sleep.  The insomnia has overall gotten better, but it comes back every couple of days and it's just freak'n maddening.  My downstairs neighbors, god forbid can hear me on those nites cause I am motherf&cki*g everything in sight at the top of my lungs. (cursing out loud...... very loud)

Anyway, I don't want to jinx it, but, I took a 1000mg L-tripaphan along with my "sleepy time" tea, and bingo. I slept seven hours, woke up, and went back for another hour.  Hey. that's like waaaa-aaaay huge.

Again, I have had some ok nites of six or so, may even seven hours so it may be that last nite was one of those "off" nites in the cycle of insomnia.  (random baby, random)   But, hey, I'm staying optimistic.

I'll keep you posted I hope, with good news.

Thanks again to everyone. I am not good with scrolling up and remembering who, and when.  It's just generally a good groove from all and it's much appreciated.

Hang tough today y'all..

Matthew

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by AnonGuy2, Mar 02, 2009
Hello, hello!

Kes-- You're right about support in this stage. :)

Matt-- About the genetic thing. This hasn't been talked about much here and I am quite surprised. I wanted to say that my family has had lots of issues with alcohol and drugs among other things. I was physically/sexually abused as a kid by my father (as was my mom, and my sister, who is 1 year older than me). I never knew my dad, though. They divorced when I was 2 and we went to live in a shelter and such. From what I know, my dad was and still is a huge alcoholic and drug addict. My mom is an alcoholic, always has been, and I know has used her fair share of blow and weed even though she still won't admit it (kids always know, of course). The disease of being an addict to substances, from my understanding, does have something to do with genetics. But then again, so does being around that type of stuff growing up and/or just knowing how it's played a role in your family's past.

My mom grew up with many brothers and the 3 of my uncles I've always been closest with still battle drug and alcohol addictions. This junk runs in my family hardcore. But I'm determined to not let that legacy live on in my family. I still don't know the best way to talk to my kids, when I have some, will be. Do you talk to them as early teens about your experiences to show them why they should stay away? Or do you not really bring up all your personal experiences unless they start to get involved in the stuff themselves? It would be easy to jump to the first option there, but I know that myself knowing the battles my family has had with drugs and booze before getting into it myself was both a good and a bad thing.

Well anyway, another solid day of work today without w/d's at all. I stayed a few hours late and worked harder than I should have had to due to staffing issues but I remained in an overall good mood all day. I haven't had a bout of depression or intense anxiety now in 4 days or more so I'm flying high and enjoying life BIG TIME!

I think my personality has a lot to do with my progress so far. It would be so easy to look at something bad at work that happened, for example, and dwell on it with a long face all day like so many other millions of other people do each day at work. But why do that? Slap on a smile, laugh it off, and forget about it. It may be hard sometimes but you're never going to get very far in recovery if you don't start to realize these things. Again, what are these times called? Let me help:

MOMENTS OF CLARITY !!!!

These three words mean so much to me it crazy!

Well, anyway, time to rot my brain with some more tv, feed my puppy, and hit the hay for another 8-10 hours of interrupted sleep with wicked crazy dreams! Yee-Haw! :P

- Dave
:D :D :D :D :D

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by FinallyFred, Mar 02, 2009
Dave,  Congratulations on another day being tram free and happily so, it sounds.  

Yes, drug and alcohol abuse does TEND to "run in families".  But having a parent who is an addict or an alcoholic does not sentence a child to the same disease.  At the same time, just because one has "clean" parents doesn't guarantee that the child will go untouched by these things.  

Neither of my parents drank or used drugs AS FAR AS I KNOW.  (borrowing a line from Clinton during last year's Dem. Primary!)   Neither of my sisters have problems with alcohol or drugs either AS FAR AS I KNOW.  :)  I guess I just got lucky.

And I don't believe that there is really any way to predict which of our children may fall prey to addiction either.  My youngest son was strong willed, highly motivated, of great humor though, but was always pushing the boundaries.  My older was extremely compliant, mellow, and TWICE as smart as I ever was.  If I were to have guessed, I would have predicted that the younger might have followed me into addiction and that the older would have breezed though untouched.  In fact, it has turned out to be just the opposite.  So I relinquish all claims on predicting addiction in children.  I guess the point is that we should be careful to make assumptions about who might "catch it" and who might not.

Dave, when you have children, you will know when it is appropriate to talk with them about your addictions.  The great thing about raising kids is that it doesn't happen over night.  And you generally won't need to tell them everything at one sitting.  When the time is right, I bet you'll do just fine.

Goodnight All

Fred





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by priceiswright, Mar 03, 2009
Just writing to say hi. im at the end of day 5 and i know ill make it through this no tram thing. tram that stole my life, gave me 6 months of productivity and 2 years of mixed depression, void emotions, inability to laugh. tram that stole my dreams and made me lose those dreams. tram that made me financially irresponsible. tram that turned me into a boring person who wanted to stay home all day, take trams, watch tv, and do nothing else. trams that made me get irritated at children who wanted to pet my dogs, trams that stole my identity, happiness, laughter, weight, and life. i hate you tram. the only thing i dont hate about you tram is that im now 15lbs heavier than i was when i first began quitting which was about 5 weeks ago. 15lbs in 5 weeks *****. i am a rather small girl so 15lbs is a **** load. i also found a new addiction - sweets. cant stop eating those!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so as you can see i know what tram stole from me, what it took away but i have a fear and ive laid it out before and im lying it out now. more to ask for help......i have access to pain killers and i feel cravings for them - i want that high. i feel like the only time im able to get things done is when im high from opiates. if im not high, i  lay on the couch and feel like i cant get anything done. my mind revolves around thinking how i can get opiates to get high. you see the slippery slope.........................anyone else dealt with this? what should i do? how do i stop it? i need something that will stop these cravings so that im able to focus on other things - like moving forward in my life and battling the depression that tram withdrawls give.

by the way i wont have easy access to a computer for the next few daays as im going out of town for a few days, so you might not hear from me as much but fear not, i will be back soon. oh and dont worry i wont have any access to painkillers either. but i do love you all and i know your words and wisdom and giving me the ability to be honest keeps me clean. your acceptance of all my crazy thoughts kept me sober today. THANK YOU.

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by FinallyFred, Mar 03, 2009
Price,  Way to go.  Contrats on 5 days.  You sound motivated and honest.  Your "tirade" is healthy for you too.  I wrote lots of them in my early withdrawal and I still do from time to time.

You said that you have access to opiates.  I think that it is fair to say that there are times when ANY of us might succumb to taking pills if we could get our hands on them in a weak moment.  Any way you could unaccess those temptations?  For your own good?

Enjoy your time going out of town and we will be right here when you return.

Fred

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by kes68, Mar 03, 2009
Price -  5 days clean is huge, and it only makes sense that you would still have cravings.  Your body is still screaming out for them.  Don't forget - it will take time for your body to be free of these drugs, and your feelings and emotions have to catch up - they have been on hold for quite a while
I was put on tram - the non addictive alternative to opiates because of my addiction to them.  
Opiates ruined my life - yet I still crave the high.  When I was going through CT from opiates - I remember thinking - this I will remember - this is hell and it will keep me away from them for good.  Wrong, wrong, wrong - if it were only that simple!

You don't just quit - you have to work damn hard to not give into the cravings, to not let the addiction trick you into the "well just this once won't hurt" thinking.
I think I have said this before - but I have  a list I have made - everything I have lost because of my addictions.  It is a brutally honest list - all the ugly dark stuff that I wish I could forget.  When I crave that high - I read it - to remind me just how powerful addiction is.  It has taken everything from my life - yet I am still thinking of playing with fire?!
Addiction is never really cured - it just goes into remission.  As long as we take care of our physical and emotional selves, it will stay that way - but if we forget, start slipping back into denial, or our old ways of thinking - it will be right there waiting.
Hang in there - right now you are 5 days closer to getting your life back.

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by Tommyboy1979, Mar 03, 2009
Hello Everyone -

Sorry I havent posted in the last couple days. Although I am on DAY 4!!!!!!!!!!! of my life long  No-more-tramathon I have been feeling pretty good aside from lack of motivation.  Sadly though I think that is normal for me hence one of the mu ain reasons I took Tram to begin with.  I found that working out helped me tremendously in the motivational department, that is .. when I found the motivation to get there first.  Its a vicious cycle.  

Anyways back to the last couple of days Tram Free.  I know my GF, Ms Marie, has updated everyone so I wont bore you with reruns but the last couple days has not been as bad as I had thought they would be and no were close to the pain and suffering all of you have been through.  I have to give all of you paise for that.

Last night was the first night I couldnt sleep.  Which is wierd because the night  before (day 3) I went to bed at 11pm and practically slept through until 10am!!  Last night I tossed and turned and sweated (not like work out sweat but like sweat that just sticks to you) and finally went down stairs and played Tiger Woods on the PS3 until about 1230-1 am. Nothing will distract your mind like 18 mind numbing holes of Tiger Woods.  Seriously that could be a drug itself!. After that I Slept until about 7am. Everyday I wake up feeling pretty good though.  Not tired but restless leg syndromn has me out of bed by 730 every day for the most part except of course day 3.

Another wierd factor that I have noticed that i havent seen anyone mention so maybe its just me but I will barely eat all day but when I do at night i feel like i ate a 34 course meal.  I had a mini microwavable lasagna last night and my stomach was so round and so full i honestly thought I had a food baby in there. ( Wow thats gross)   I couldnt yawn without feeling like i was gonna explode or tear something.  Does anyone else feel this?  Its been like this almost every night for about 2 weeks, sometimes worst than others.  If its not Tram then It will prob go away when I start working out.

Well although I dont feel horrible and i can function pretty normally I still dont feel 100% normal.  Not that I expected to but I didnt expect to feel this good in the first place so Im kind of lost as to where i should be or will be, you know?
Its been 2 years since I havent had the drug so its sad to say but it has been a while since I knew what normal was but I dont think you forget.  You just know when things feel right, right?  I dont have anxiety or depression.  Achy sometimes and mostly just fuzzy and tired.  I need cafiene to stay motivated so far but thats like 95% of people who drink coffee right?

Ok well just wanted to give you all an update and see if any of you have an idea of what could be in store in the future.  I know Tram follows no pattern and it could flip you upside down tomorrow so I guess ill just wait and see.

Im a little behind on work right now so I need to get caught up.  Ill get on tonight to respond to other posts.

Thanks for the support you all have given both myself and my gf!  All of you are right!  She is Amazing and I wouldnt be as far as I am now without her.

- Tommy



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by EmilyPost, Mar 03, 2009
OK.

*swear words*

I cut my Klonopin last night from .5 mg to .375 mg. And I think it was the worst night yet? Yes, Tommyboy mentions sweat the sticks to you. Completely freezing cold sweat and I have no clue what time t was; BUT I did NOT sleep. I am not dropping into deep REM sleep. So this leaves me really exhausted and so far I have been using the FLU excuse at work. Along wth my Parka ... well the borrowed giant Parka I look pretty much like an Influenza Victim. Luckily everyone around me is sick.

The suicidal ideation is back and I'm so tired of that.

i have at least a month or two left to taper. The first day of a drop is wicked hard. Trying to control your thoughts is like throwing gasoline on a fire.

Ever been irritated that you're irritated? So annoying!

The "keep your freak'n pants on made me laugh" ...

ACK!

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by JT50, Mar 03, 2009
I posted the below in the other thread and then noticed the last post was on 02/27 and found this new one has been created to continue the discussion.  I am posting once again here so that it will hopefully be read asap.


Hello.  Tramhater posted a part of what her doc told her that describes my main symptom:

#2... THE SIDE EFFECTS THAT MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WANT TO CUT YOUR ARMS AND LEGS OFF IS YOUR BODY FIGHTING THE SERITONIN (Sp) WITHDRAWAL. THAT THE POS DRUG TRAMADOL HIDES IN IT! SO IF YOU TAKE A DRUG SUCH AS PROZAC.. LEXAPRO.... XANAX.. IT WILL HELP THAT SIDE EFFECT GO AWAY BY 80% (THAT IS AN EXACT STATISTIC) FROM TRAM WITHDRAWALERS... PROB FROM MY DETOX CENTER... WELL IT IS WORKING... HE JUST PUT ME ON PROZAC FOR THREE DAYS.. 20 MG... I AM SMALL SO THE DOSE MAY BE DIFF EVERYONE. BUT GETTING A DOC ENVOLVED HAS SEEMED TO HELP. "HELP IS THE KEY WORD.. BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE IT ALL JUST GO AWAY.


I lie awake every night with horrible tingling sensations in mainly my left arm of all places.  I need for this to stop in order to get some sleep.  Are there any Over The Counter (OTC) meds that can help me?  I've heard some talk of something called Hyland's Restful Legs.  Does this really work and does it work for all limbs?  Does anyone have any other suggestions other than walk around the house all night in a sleepy miserable daze waving my arms around in my dark house as everyone else is in their slumber?  I was over at drugs.com in that forum under this same ID "jt50" if you want to go read more detaills of my case but...it's Tramadol.  Thanks for any quick replies.  I want to go shopping before tonight if at all possible.
--
JT50


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by MsMarie1981, Mar 03, 2009
JT -- I would go talk to a Pharmacist about this.  I'd tell them that you were or are taking tramadol, and what you're feeling in your arm.   They aren't doctors but they are most aware of an contraindications and whether or not there is anything that can help you.  Thats probably the quickest way to get a professional opinion.  Good luck!

Emily -- Hang in there.  you're freezing and sweating and not sleeping? No wonder you're irritable --  try not to punch anyone haha.  We're all thinking about you.  :)   a big hug.

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by kes68, Mar 03, 2009
Emily - how long were you off tram before you decided to drop the benzo's?  How much were you taking, and for how long?

I know I need to just set this aside - I have barely started my tram taper - but I am hating the sound of your taper - it sounds nasty.  You are going to feel so good once your body is free of all the drugs.  
I am following your taper closely - getting an idea of what I have waiting for me.

Hang in there - you've done this before with the tram - you can do this!

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by AnonGuy2, Mar 03, 2009
Emily --

Ouch! I am so sorry you are going through this much trouble with the klonopin taper. Reading about your struggles with that drug really make me remember my love affair with klonopin. I used to pop them like candy all day long for a couple years as I've stated before. The ones I had were the maximum dose, 2mg, and from India. They were yellow and made to smell and taste like banana and boy did they ever! I will never forget the image/smell/taste of those relaxing little pills.

Although I never remember ever having any withdrawals off my benzo binges (again, probably due to my constant partying with hard street drugs at the time), I have close to 100 valium (10mg) pills on me, and I have no interest in them. I did secretly take one of them about 8 nights ago just to see if it would help me sleep without waking up every 30-60 minutes. It didn't, and I felt so groggy in the morning that I decided I wouldn't try another one. I still haven't, and have no interest in them at all. If I had any interest at all, I would throw them away since that would be too tempting.

I am very glad that it didn't help hardly at all with my sleep because if it did, I would most likely still be taking one each night. Basically, then, this would turn valium into my new addiction which would NOT be good at all.

I have been on a mission to not ever take any drugs at all except OTC stuff. I feel like I am winning this battle big time and I owe most of it to my extreme desire and devotion to the cause.

I am still feeling great and more and more 100% in every aspect with each passing day. I can even see very minor improvments in the sleep issues I have been having if I look hard enough!

JT50 --

You asked if Hyland's Restful Legs actually works. I have been on here saying many times that I recommend it but, for me at least, it's far from a "miracle pill" for the restless legs/arms/body. In case you haven't seen my posts about it, I can't really see but a minor difference if I take it but I still take it anyway. It says to take 2-3 tabs sublingually and I have tried twice that much but noticed nothing more. I have also tried taking subsequent doses throughout the night when I keep waking up and feel restless. I don't really find it much easier to get back to sleep after taking it, either, so basically I just take a single dose of 4 of them under my tongue right before I lay down to watch some tv in bed before I try for sleep.

Again, does it work? It seems to a little bit, but it's not a miracle drug. One person here suggested to me to take 1/3rd a bottle of it. Maybe that will work but those bottles have 50 tablets in them and at $7 or so plus tax I'd rather pass on that idea. It's not that I'm poor nor that I'm cheap, but rather that if I have to take 5 times the dose stated on the package, I am not going to do it.

To sum it up, I recommend you go buy a package and try it out. I hope it works well for you. Wal-Marts don't carry it but Walgreens stores do.


Alright guys, I'll be back tomorrow evening after work again! I hope everyone gets to feeling better like I am!

- Dave
:) :D

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by tramhater, Mar 03, 2009
ugggh I am back! SOrry that I took a few days off but I had a very sick child. ok this is day.. ummm 13 days for me! SO FAR SO GOOD STILL! SLEEPING GREAT AND JUST trying to deal with my little man. SOOOO WOW ALOT OF STUFF


EMILY SO SORRY THAT YOU ARE HAVING A HARD TIME! i hope that we can be your supporters the way you were mine. GOOD LUCK.. WHat is klonipin used for anyway?


DAVE! SORRY YOU BEEN SO TIRED... HOWEVER if it makes you feel better to know... this is my only complaint too! UGH SO TIRED SO FAST! I take a 2 hour nap everyday with my son and still feel sick

TO JT50... wanted to let you know that you can also use bengay!!!! IT WORKS... OH AND 4 everyone.. my doctor is doing a case study on me and sending it to the FDA!

TTYL

SHADETREE THIS WILL ALL BE OVER SOON!!! DON"T WORRY!

LOVE
Heather

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by emergee, Mar 03, 2009

i just got my glossy magazine from the restless leg society!   wierd that i signed up for that at some obsessive moment at 3 in the morning and i have no memory of it.  
in the section called "bedtime stories" ,  the first writer extols  hylands restful legs to the heavens.  which is how i felt about it.

rls remedies:
vitamin d-3
cooling your feet
iron infusions
400mg triple mg complex, 20 mg p5p, 800mgfolic acid
magnalife which rite-aid carries
no wine, heavy fats , or dairy
ayrvedic nursing home

above remedies are write-ins from long term rls sufferers.  another one said that a study found that most of the sufferers had a history of long term drug use , and esp, gerd remedies.  aciphex,prilosec, and nexium.  those must be stopped dead.

i knew someone who had it and she was definitely a longterm drug user, cigarette smoker, and general party girl.  does that mean anything?  no idea.

regarding hylands,  i can't help but feel people aren't taking enough.  you have to take a lot right away.   take them every few minutes for and hour or two.  while you are watching tv or whatever.    if you take a half a bottle right away i think it should do it.  DO NOT try to string it out,  or take less,  or tolerate the symptoms and hope you get used to it.   just stuff those pills down.

it is a truly appalling symptom.  

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by FinallyFred, Mar 04, 2009
I found this at another website and just had to share it.  

"...Tramadol is also indicated for use in veterinary medicine. It’s used to treat pain from surgery, illness and injury in dogs, cats, rabbits, marsupials, and rodents including flying squirrels, rats, guinea pigs, ferrets and raccoons".

Thus the name, RAT Poo.  Yup, if you are a RAT, ask your mom to get you tramadol...it's what all the other rats are taking now for pain, illness and injury.  Humans please stay away though.  Just set the poo aside for use in the ol'  traps out back.  Cause apparently, rats ask for this stuff by name.  :)

Not me though.  I am done.  

Fred

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by JT50, Mar 04, 2009
Hey, I took two Unisome sleeping pills lastnight and did not have any arm tinglings for the first time.  I hope I have finally found something that will help me get through until all this subsides.
--
JT

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by MsMarie1981, Mar 04, 2009
Hi Guys,

I just wanted to let you know Tommy and I have been doing a little restless leg research because he's been up all night the past two nights tossing and turning (and making me crazy haha). So I thought I might share it with you since we're all on the same quest for a solution.  

The various remedies you can take for RLS address the various causes of RLS, which is not a very well-understood disease.  Some people have RLS becuase of iron deficiency.  Alcohol, caffeine, anticonvulsants, antidepressants, antipsychotics, could cause RLS, the list goes on and on.  Withdrawal from sedatives can cause it.  But I think most importantly for all of you wonderful friends out there is this: "RLS may be related to abnormalities in brain chemicals (neurotransmitters) that help regulate muscle movements, or to abnormalities in the part of the central nervous system that controls automatic movements. Research is still being done in these areas."  Emily and others have talked a bit about how tram and withdrawal effect neurotransmitters, so my guess is that thats the related cause for most of you who are experiencing RLS.  So many of the remedies that most people would use to treat RLS like iron supplements or potassium supplements are ineffective for tram withdrawers becuase the cause of their RLS is different.  The bad news is that I have no idea how that is treated :)  I think we may our own advice and talk to a Pharmacist about this tonight. I'll let you know what we find out.  

I'm pretty sure Tommy will be taking Hylands Restless Legs so I'll let you know if that helps. Feel better guys!

hugs not drugs!  Haha wow i'm corny :)

marie

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by EmilyPost, Mar 04, 2009
Tonic Water w/ Quinine (whch crosses the BBB; Blood Brain Barrier) mixed w/  sweet apple took RLS down ...

Emergee ... laughing about the GLOSSY RLS magazne you have no memory of ordering ... hahahaaa!

Gotta laugh!

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 04, 2009
I thought I was the only one. I've been on Tramadol for a year or a little over. Who knows? I started taking it right, realized it felt good, would run thru my prescription, then just buy more online. I don't even know how many I was taking a day. My doctors just kept giving me more. I have legitimate pain issues, and OTC's don't help. My shoulder pain gets so bad I can't move it at all. I don't know what to do! I am now out, due to get a refill Mar 18, 09. I took my last one yesterday morning, and today, I am dealing with being a mother, running a house, and other daily activities, and I can't stop crying, shaking, feeling like my skin is crawling. I hate this, but I hate pain too, and I am so confused.




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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 04, 2009
I think I was lying to myself. No one knows this is a problem. I've even had a seizure, and was scared Tramadol would be blamed, but the neurologist just said he saw no reason for the seizure, and just take the tramadol as prescribed and I would be ok. He wrote it off as "one of those things". so if a neurologist wasn't worried, why should I be? It really feels good to talk about this. I've never said this, spoke it, wrote it, thought it....Thank GOD I have not had another seizure, even though I take more than I did then. I have had another "black out" episode though, and my husband made me go to the ER.....and wouldn't you know, the drug screen was clear, since Tramadol doesn't show up. Again, I escaped  by the skin of my teeth. I want to say I won't get that refill on the 18th....I don't want to get it. I just am scared to live in pain again. I don't know what I should do. I am glad I found this forum though, genuinely. Also....I live in GA, its not controlled here, and FedEX delivers with no problems. It is controlled in KY, my fellow Army wife friend is stationed there, and cannot get it online, as FedEx won't deliver it there. I was reading earlier the state listings. I don't even know about the "dangerous drug" thing. I was getting my refills at an onpost pharmacy, never once had to sign for them. Just an FYI.




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by kevzx81, Mar 04, 2009
pfc-tramadol CAN cause seizures. Seizures can occur when you increase your dose dramatically. If you run out of Tram and start re-taking it a couple days later you are dramatically increasing your dose. You are at risk of seizure if you start taking them again, esp at a high dose. contact Emily , she knows most about this. sorry to drop the bomb, but I'm very worried after reading your post.

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by EmilyPost, Mar 04, 2009
pfc - Kev is correct. Can you make it thru 3-4 days of cold turkey? If you want to quit, the end of the day will be 24 hours closer to free!

Of course you may have no choce, as you are outta pills?

Here's hoping you can read some posts to help you thru

Hi Kev! :D Am glad to see you!

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 04, 2009
Yes, I am out, right now. Like I said, my dr will refill my script on the 18th. I keep remembering tramadol is only a phone call and a day away if I buy them....which I am surprised I hadn't already whipped out the cc and ordered them by now. But I really want to change. I just don't know what else I can take to stop the shoulder pain that would be so easy to get. I think quitting is or may be harder when you have a condition you genuinely need relief from. I had no idea so many other people had a problem. I know a TON of people with addiction and dependence on true opiods, but seeing as how no dr has ever raised an eyebrow to me asking for more trams, I thought it couldn't be so bad. If I ever asked for something stronger, oh God forbid, they would look at me like I had three eyeballs or was asking for a prescription for crack!! They say tramadol is a "maintenance medication" in my case. I don't know what to think. But finding this site, its opening my eyes.

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by FinallyFred, Mar 04, 2009
PFC,  I just have a minute her during lunch, but saw your post.   You said that your next order date is 3/18 and that you OUT now and don't intend to re-order.  How much were you typically taking a day?   When did you take your last pills?  I only ask because others will be along here and this sort of information can be helpful in responding to your post.

My guess is that over the next few days, you will come to believe that the shoulder pain that originally caused you to take this tram pill is NOTHING compared to the pain of taking tramadol and the - ahh - problems it creates.  

So glad you found this place.  It saved my life.  Click on Emily's ICON and read her journal entires if you haven't already done so.  Feel free to click on my icon as well and go read my journal entires recording my first 14 days or so withdrawaing from this.   Emily began this many months ago and we seem to fill up one site and then begin another...so our stories tend to get dragged out...which is why I suggested icon/journal reading to you if you want.

Yeah, tramadol is listed as a "controlled substance" in five states, maybe six.  None of that probably matters today though.

Others will be along soon.  Hang in there.

Fred

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by EmilyPost, Mar 04, 2009
I have two herniated dscs and nerve damage and to be honest Tramadol made me worse. Roll around on the floor and beg DH to take me to the ER worse.

Your Docs need to reevaluate your pain needs ... but Tramadol is bad medicine.

Your pain would lkely decrease once Tramadol was no longer a factor.


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by AnonGuy2, Mar 04, 2009
A ton of posts in the last hour, wow!

Emily I am glad you mentioned that Quinine worked for you because I remember seeing Hyland's Leg Cramps tabs right next to their Restful Legs product in Walgreens many weeks ago. I immediately wondered if it would help at all for the RLS and/or tossing and turning but dismissed the thought since I hadn't heard anything about it.

Well you've made me decide to give it a try!

I sure hope it helps as the tossing and turning every night is getting very annoying. The mattress I have is only like 2 months old and it's an expensive Serta European pillowtop. I had never such a fancy mattress before and it took me about a week to get used to even while on tramadol but to be honest, right now I am hating the super-soft and supposedly "comfy" pillowtop on it. I think it makes my restlessness even worse though I could be wrong about that and I'm probably just trying to make up reasons other than coming off a hardcore tramadol addiction. :)

Emergee --

LOL, you're advising to take as much as half a bottle of Hyland's Restful Legs? Again, if that works for you, great, but I refuse to take 25 tabs of something just to get relief. No offense, but I just can't see myself doing that! I'd be spending over $30/week on that stuff if that's what it took to get rid of my RLS at night. I'm not LOL'ing at you but at the situation I'd be in if I did that. :)

I will go to Walgreens here this evening and buy the Hylands Leg Cramps with Quinine to try that out. I sure hope it helps as much as it seems to have for Emily. If not, oh well.

Alright fellow tramadol warriors, see you later!

- Dave
:D

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by EmilyPost, Mar 04, 2009
No no ... Tonic Water with quinine  ... not pills

I never said Hyland's ... I haven't tred that ...

There's no need to demean anyone here. She's gong thru a benzo reaction Anon Dave ...

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by AnonGuy2, Mar 04, 2009
Emily --

Hyland's Leg Cramps has quinine in it, that's why I mentioned it.

About Emergee, I stated I was laughing at the situation I'd be in if I were to be popping back 1/2 a bottle of Hyland's Restful Legs at a time, not at her. I appreciate everyone's advice here and very much admire everyone's courage for being so open and honest. That's why I tried to make it very clear that I have nothing against her. I am sorry if you took that the wrong way.

Everyone:

I just got back from Walgreens and they had both Hyland's Restful Legs *and* Hyland's Leg Cramps both on sale two for $10! Normally they charge $6.99 each so this is almost 50% off!

I went ahead and bought two more bottles of Restful Legs and I bought two bottles of Leg Cramps (for the quinine Emily suggested) for $20. What a bargain!

- Dave
aka DaveTheHyland'sSpokesman! :P

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by JT50, Mar 04, 2009
I went to my local Walgreens lastnight in search of this Hyland's Restless Legs and they do not carry it.  I think I saw the leg cramp stuff though.  Should I get that?  I was wondering if it's an online product only but apparently not if Dave is getting it as his store.

Emily, you are suggesting Tonic water with quinine?  Is this something I can pick up at any grocery store in the area where you can find drink mixes?  Does all Tonic Water have Quinine or do I have to look specifically for tonic water with quinine added?  You said add apple juice to it for taste?  Do you know how much I should drink before bed?  Would quinine pills do as well?  Sorry for all the questions.  :-)

Thank you all.
--
JT

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by EmilyPost, Mar 04, 2009
Emily, you are suggesting Tonic water with quinine?  Yes!! It says with Quinine on the bottle. I used ths cause I was throwing up any pill I would swallow.

Is this something I can pick up at any grocery store in the area where you can find drink mixes? Yes!

Does all Tonic Water have Quinine or do I have to look specifically for tonic water with quinine added? It needs to say w/ Quinine or be in the ingredients ...

You said add apple juice to it for taste?  Yes! Apple juice is mild and will kill the bitterness; Tonic water is bitter.

Do you know how much I should drink before bed? I drank a glass three times a day not only before bed ...

Would quinine pills do as well?  I'm not sure ... I know the Tonic water worked for me ... It's easy on the intestine.

Sorry for all the questions.  :-) No worries :D


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by bodegirl, Mar 04, 2009
Hi everyone,
I'm new here but have taken GREAT comfort in reading the many posts at this site.  I am just truly suffering right now and am seaking any support.  I am on day 4 of tramadol withdrawal and feel almost worse than on days 1-3.  I can not sleep, and have zero energy am nausaus(sp?) and want to sleep so badly but my body wont let me.  I want to crawl out of my own skin.  This must be pure HELL!!!! I have 2 young children to care for and almost can not.  I can barely function. and a husband whom I am really trying to hide this from which is close to impossible.  I have been taking tramadol for 3 years 8- 50mg pills a day.  I had tapered down to 2 a day and then quit all together last Saturday which makes today day 4 of drug free me.  One more thing, I'm pregnant which is making this whole thing more overwhelming(not to mention double the nausea and double the guilt), but ultimately, learning I was pregnant was one of the things that kicked me into gear to quit.  I HATE this drug, it has come close to ruining my life.  I am hating myself and can not see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Any and all help is sooooooo appreciated.  Thank you in advance.  

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by EmilyPost, Mar 04, 2009
Welcome Bodegirl!

((((gentle hugs)))))) Day 4 sure is terrible.

So glad you stopped. Congrats on your pregnancy. Your nausea wll get better. Fluids with powdered vitamns? Emergen-C packages?

Soft calmng foods?

When you are laying down ... if you are not asleep at least breathe? To the count of 5 in and 10 out, drops your heart rate ..



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by JT50, Mar 04, 2009
Hello bodegirl, you might want to fess up that you are WDing from this drug since you're in this particular situation, pregnant, two small kids, etc.  You said you're back to 2/day of the 50mg tabs?  Were all the WD symptoms kept at bay on only 2/day?  Are/were you getting your drugs through your physician or over the Internet?

If you were still getting them prescribed from your doc and it says on the bottle to take 2/day then you're back to following your doc's advise and you could simply reveal to your husband that you are following your prescription and it's not your fault that you are now in thiis mess trying to quit them for the baby and get better help without having to be Superwoman and hiding this from everyone.  That just makes it worse I would think.  Good luck to you.
--
JT

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by AnonGuy2, Mar 04, 2009
JT --

The only reason I keep mentioning Walgreens is because, when I first Google'ed "Hylands Restful Legs" 3 weeks ago when I quit tramadol and found out about it, their official website for the product has a store finder and the first page of results for my zip code were all Walgreens stores!

Here's their official website:

http://www.restfullegs.com/

Go there and click on the store finder and submit your zip code. I have like 10 Walgreens all within 8-10 miles of my apartment so I never bothered to check the other pages of results in my area for other stores.

If you buy the Resful Legs, I sincerely hope it works well for you. As I've said many times, it doesn't do hardly anything for me but then again I've not tried taking 5-8x the recommended dose as others have. Even though it doesn't seem to do a lot for me, I still take it each night as I do notice a minor difference.

I think, for me, I am really not enjoying the super fluffiness of my European pillowtop mattress. Just imagining how it feels to lay down on a regular mattress sounds like heaven to me. I think it's all in my head, really, as I seriously doubt a regular mattress would solve all my problems with RLS and tossing and turning. But even if it is all in my head, it's what I believe at the moment so it's driving me crazy!

Then again, even my furniture I have is seemingly very uncomfortable to me. So is the furniture at work. A couple of our offices have at least 4-5 different types of office chairs up at work and, to be honest, they all feel uncomfortable to me. It's part of that overall feeling of restlessness my entire body has if it's not in a standing position being productive. It's quite strange, really. Today at work I was writing out the schedule for 3 hours as I usually do on Wednesdays and every 30 minutes or so I'd have to stand up and stretch as switching up how I was sitting down just didn't cut it. I have never been a "get up and stretch" type of person so it's very strange for me!

As I've reported countless times now, I am overall feeling great each day in every way possible except one: The restlessness of my body. It makes my body feel sore in many places, makes me feel uncomfortable when sitting or laying down, and also keeps me from sleeping more than 60 minutes straight at night without having to wake up and toss and turn. It's getting quite annoying because it's hard to see any progress there.

Emily, as I came back to this page before I typed this post, I swear to God that the two words going through my head over and over were "no worries" so it's frickin' ironic as hell that those were the last two words typed on this site before I started to type this post! Amazing!

I didn't know some tonic water has quinine in it, so that's great to know. The Leg Cramps pills have much more than just quanine in them and just like the Restful Legs, it's all homeopathic which is great. I may try to get some tonic water with quinine down the road if I feel I want or need to give it a try.

- Dave
aka DaveTheHyland'sJunkie :P

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by AnonGuy2, Mar 04, 2009
bodegirl ---

Welcome, indeed! You are in a truly great place!

Like JT, I recommend you clue your husband in on the situation, all things considered. Keep posting and let us know how things are going. If you do manage to stop 100% for 4 days or so in the future, most people (including myself and many others here) finally found sleep on night 4 or 5, so that's the good news. It's not great sleep but it's still sleep!

Good luck! :)

I am off to kill some time finding stuff to do. Oh yeah, I have laundry. I need to go to the store, too....

- Dave
:D

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 04, 2009
I started my day with 8-50mgs, then a few hrs later, 2 50-mg, then around 1 or 2 pm, I'd have another 4 50mgs. That would be it. I thought stopping at that early hr would matter. I guess not when you  are taking 14-20 in 24 hrs. Took my last at 8am yesterday morning, slept like I was comatose last night, now I am sweating like crazy, itchy, weak feeling, and praying to sleep some tonight. Thanks for sharing, and talking to me, all of you. I am hopeful. I will talk to my physician about my pain issues, and about tramadol. Maybe theres an effective alternative to any kind of controlled or dangerous substance. I hope so. Pain makes me crazy too. Just glad I can read others stories here, as well as tell mine. It feels very good to be able to talk about it. Having a 5 yr old son and a 2 yr old son, its so important to me for them not to have an addict mother. I had an alcoholic father. Although it was more obvious with alcohol, I'm sure they sense a change in me, as well.

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by bodegirl, Mar 04, 2009
Hey Emily, Dave and JT, and all
Thanks for your quick responses and support!  I really am so inspired and appreciate your thoughts.  

My situation is a little more complicated than I've explained as of yet and I can not tell my husband(or anyone for that matter!) about the detox and withdrawal of tramadol.  It's very complicated and there are things I have done that I am so so ashamed of(I will explain at another time, I just can't do it yet)   So, I am in a very lonely and terrible situation-because I stupidly got myself addicted to tramadol(bought over internet, never had a script!) and done things I wouldn't normally do, I am in a REAL crisis.

I figure that my first task is to get through the detox of tramadol, then I am hoping I can face what lies ahead.   Thank you so much for your help everyone.
Bodegirl

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by EmilyPost, Mar 04, 2009
Bodegirl,

It's ok ... we're only here to support you. If you have some epsom salts, you can use them in the shower ... I know hot baths maybe be out for pregnant you.

I used the salts in a shower.

You may be lonely but you are here now. We've all been on Day 4 ... I promise it will get better ...

Anything we can do for you to help you be more comfortable ...

((((gentle hugs))))

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by dammitol, Mar 04, 2009
Hi, I jumped in late. I got relief from Robaxin for the leg/arm/back spasms/jittery/restless limb-thing. Some people get muscle spasms from Trammie WD and that was the only thing that made it bearable during the acute WD phase (1st 4 days or so.) It is a script, tho, and I had them on hand for chronic LBP. They work real well for me.

Good luck to all WDing from awful trammies.

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by emergee, Mar 04, 2009
dave and other rls people,  
    hylands put me to sleep completely and the problem was solved,   the next night i had to only take a few ,  etc.  do what you feel is best but if you check out the ingrediants it's all harmless stuff and v.  low concentration.  that is thing about homeopathic remedies.   they are not drugs and they don't fill you with substances.  some homeopathic remedies are made of stufff like rabid dog poisosn,  but the concentration is like 2 molcules per bottle so it's not remotely poisonous.  the theory of it sounds really wacky and frankly i was sceptical as hell but i was so desparate i didn't care.  and it worked.  right away.  
    for years i have been so concerned about eating organic food,  taking vitamins,  avoiding poisons, getting acupuncture and herbs.   and i didn't even get the insane hypocrisy of taking tramadol while doing this.  
    my research turned up dopamine as the culprit.  i posted at one point that the ways to boost dopamine are hugs and sex.  so check that out.  those who get into the neurotransmitter thing can check out my journal for an article on the "types' of personalities and their corresponding neurotransmitter .   i am clearly a dopamine type ,  so it is possible that those of us with that vulnerability will experience rls during withdrawal.  

emily,   i was pretty amused as well at my rls magazine.  

i also thought the cooling feet remedy pretty hilarious.  but who knows??  

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by suzipen, Mar 04, 2009
Hi and Welcome bodegirl and pfc!
I dont have much time right now, but want you both to know I am sending you positive thoughts~~~~~~~~~
right now.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~!!

There IS a light at the end of the tunnel. Trust me.  Been there.
I am a mommy too.

Post often,
suzi




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by kevzx81, Mar 04, 2009
MY LATEST CRACKPOT THEORY......

Most of us here were prescribed Tram for pain,yes?
It SEEMED to work for a while(possibly because of chemical moodlift leading to muscle relaxation,repressed emotions etc.. causing a TEMPORARY lessening of pain).
Once tolerance withdrawal is reached the pain comes back full on, coupled to increased anxiety/tension etc and GETS WORSE.(unless you increase your dose of course.)
If detox occurs the pain lessens!

Ive been concentrating on pain management a LOT lately;re my discs. Ive been working on my mood management, having recently cleared some 'stuck' feelings.(thanks to all who contributed;you know who you are!) some activities always cause pain; I wont be able to avoid pain. But MOOD I can work with,load up my day with things/people I like etc.
I also think that a mindset of " how will I live without the meds' is a recipe for disaster. To be honest I hadnt made a serious enough attempt till now.Only focusing on the physical element of my pain led me to believe that I 'needed' meds. But none of the meds free me from pain for long. My mood can though! Ive been doing a program on myself this last week by managing my mood BEFORE I go out and do stuff. Ive made some great discoveries....
1 I can go out in wind/cold and NOT be in pain.
2 I can 'reset' from pain by resting much faster than before.
3 I dont have to give up gardening!!!

During early w/d,worrying about pain in the future and how to even HAVE a life was more than I could even contemplate.Reading the recent posts I see that same frightened/desperate worry elsewhere too. Not knowing how to cope with pain,putting food on the table,nurturing children,staying alive on the freeway....the stories vary, but the feelings are very similar.
I think we've been conned into un-self-reliance by a lifelong conditioning to believe in experts and technology. Its obvious more folks are on their way;and in numbers, to this site. Most,if not all, will have pain issues. Most will have tried other meds already. Detoxing from Tram is not where it ends for many of us. I think our greatest resource is our own intelligence and self-reliance. Personally, I would rather contemplate a life of occasional mood management exercises and 'alternative' remedies to what else is on offer.(LMFAO...as in an 'alternative' to death drugs,hapless physicians and drug companies!?!)
I dont think there is a miracle cure for any of us, but I do seriously believe we could do better for ourselves than some doctors would do for us.

Ive noticed also a number of 'type As' among us, gotta get it done, has to be perfect, must try harder! Im tpye A myself and we dont suffer frustration well as a rule! I think we can make life so much harder sometimes just because we try to 'push" through. Im re-channeling my type A energy into making new patterns, giving more time to myself, starting my day in an uplifting way(Im not allowing myself out of the house until Im relaxed and ((relatively)) pain free and in an ok mood). And Im being more selfish in positive ways...what do I want today? Im going to treat myself differently. After all, Im not the only one who'll benefit.

Although I dont have kids of my own I have raised children 0-18yrs and I want to direct all parents here to the previous paragraph. i.e. I think that unless we take time to be selfish at least occasionally then it will so much harder to provide the kind of un-selfishness children need from us. My parenting days are over now (ive promised mysel) but reading posts written by parents has done a lot to keep my own misery in perspective in the darker times. Ive been thinking about the work that lies ahead as I/We rebuild from the Tram wreck and I think this needs strategies of its own. I cant think of a better or simpler one than being kind to ourselves;indulgent,hedonistic,joyful in ANY activity. Some of us will find the idea of selfishness challenging perhaps. After all, we're conditioned to de-prioritize ourselves all our lives,to think of selfishness as 'bad'. So if guilt strikes as you wallow in the bath with your reefer/wineglass/friend... try reminding yourself...ITS NOT ONLY ME WHO'LL BENEFIT!












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by JT50, Mar 05, 2009
Oh well...here I am at 01:00.  I took two Unisom sleeping pills liike I did the night before but tonight they aren't helping at all.  I also took something else because I have a head cold would keep me awake too.  I took two Tylenols, not the nighttime.  These have Acetaminophen and, I haven't experimented yet, but I believe Acetaminophen makes the RLS even worse.  Tomorrow night I will only take the two Unisom pills.  I will have to get some tonic water with quinine too.

I see this topic also discusses Ultram or I believe it's called Ultracet if generic.  This is simply Tramadol plus Acetaminophen.  Is the WD worse with this combo?  Is it more addictive?  Also, were most people here using the Tramodol Extended Release (ER) or the regular stuff?  Which was preferred by all?

I guess I'll just sit here until I think I can crawl back into bed.  This *****!
--
JT

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by emergee, Mar 05, 2009
kev,   you are so spot on.    i think this type A-ness i have had something to do with getting addicted.   i just couldn't tolerate being "down".  the t drug kept the energizer bunny chugging along.  so , yeah,  rest sooner,  BEFORE you are wiped out, exhausted , frizzled brains, and ready to scream.  
i am on exactly the same page you are.

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by kevzx81, Mar 05, 2009
Emergee-right on;I could see by your post we were 'sharing a page'. Ive also gone through a big turnaround in my view of 'alternative' therapies. In my social group the term 'alternative remedies' is scoffed at. Funny how the same folks LOVE 'alternative' music!!  
In a scene from a favourite comedy of mine, one of the characters is being derided for being over-confident in himself.
He replies " I'm no stranger to the land of scoff!". Should you place LESS faith in yourself and some very benign,side effect free 'herbals' than in the people who sold you this sh*t??  Im no stranger to the land of scoff either; we need to be a little tougher than that!  
Up until recently, many of us relied on fools to guide us. We got in a BAD MESS. But I havent met anyone here who seems in any way foolish themselves. We trusted too much is all,and mainly out of habit I think.

Its sick humour I know, but how can we NOT have faith in ourselves? After the way we've been LET DOWN, its not like we have a tough act to follow!!

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by kevzx81, Mar 05, 2009
JT- When you say "simply" Tramadol plus acetaminophen and ask 'are the WD worse? ' I cant help thinking youre missing something...... Im not able to answer the rest; I hadnt done a WD before Tramdol. Look over ALL the posts.
Read Emilys diary thingy. I have friends who have WD opiates and they were aghast at my symptom list!!



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by FinallyFred, Mar 05, 2009
I am nearly sleep walking ( sorry to say that to some of you out there.  :) and it's late, but JT, I don't think the acetaminophen combined with TRAMS makes that pill any more addictive than plain old tram.  JT, if you drink tonic water with quinine, please don't drink it so close to bedtime that umm...it will cause you to get up to empty your bladder if you DO fall alseep.  Just one old guy talking to another, right?

Kev, wow, i have read your wonderful post and there are so many GOOD things you offer to chew on.  I am also so happy that you have been able to focus on your MOOD in the after math of withdrawal.  Ima going to reread your posts agaoin when I am wide awake...but I had to comment on how great you sound and what GOOD ideas you have offered for others here.  Yay my good friend Kev!!!

dear emergee, I just have to tell everyone, that YOU were the first person to send me a note in my very early recovery.  And your care and concern continues with all you share here now.  You are someone special to this addict for certain.  You said, "hylands put me to sleep completely and the problem was solved,"    Absolutely.  All I can say is that on my day 2, I took your (kind and good) advice and downed a 1/2 bottle of the Hylands.  And it worked.  At that point in my early recovery, I was looking at what SUCCESSFUL people like you were doing to get through this...and by doing what you, and Emily and other successful people told me to do, I was able to get through the withdrawal.  It works.

JT - Like someone else here suggested, click on Emily's icon and go read her journals.  Then come back and tell us what you found.  And the next time you crawl back out of bed tonight, take a hot bath.  I predicit that there is at least a fair chance that that might help relax you some.

This part of the withdrawal is NO fun at all.  But if you continue to do battle with this drug, you can and will succeed.

Fred  

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 05, 2009
I made it through night two. Slept some actually. Tossed and turned, but did sleep. Not as comatose as the first night withdrawal. I am hot then cold, I'm sure you all know that feeling. The kids are still sleeping, and I just got done reading all the posts after my last one last night. I just this morning started what I think is the worst part, aside from the sweats...the stomach "discomfort", yeah, thats it, discomfort....lol...sorry, trying to find some light in this. Its not funny, I just don't want to get depressed. Thanks again for letting me a part of this community.

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by bodegirl, Mar 05, 2009
Day 5 and feeling foggy and tired BUT a little more human than the last 4 days! I even slept more than 2 hours...maybe 3, yay! I am taking great comfort in reading all the posts and love the insight and sense of humor many share.  Thank you for helping me through this terrible time.  

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by AnonGuy2, Mar 05, 2009
The high levels of activity certainly continued last night and that's great!

Due to time constraints, I can't comment on everyone's post since my last yesterday, but I did read them all. Kev I like your "crockpot theory" or "theories" -- Good stuff.

Emergee -- Right, Restful Legs certainly is a safe OTC product considering it's homeopathic and not 'drugs' but I don't want to take up to 25 tabs of it due to the possibility of that becoming a mandatory ritual each night and due to the cost of the stuff. Again, I am not poor by any means, but I can't justify it considering it's such a high dose.

JT and others -- I have some good news to report about quinine. As reported yesterday, I bought two packages of Hyland's Leg Cramps with quinine. I took two pills a couple hours before bed and another two at bedtime (the package says 2 pills every 4 hours as needed, btw). After my usual 9 hours of sleep last night, I am going out on a limb here and saying I think they made a difference. The RLS and tossing and turning was toned down a bit last night. I noticed something like a 25-33% (or 1/4th to 1/3rd) decrease in my overall restlessness. So, like Emily, I am going to recommend you and everyone else try the quinine in one form or another (in some tonic waters and/or Hyland's Leg Cramps).

- Dave
:D

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by Shadetree, Mar 05, 2009
Hello everyone...and welcome bodegirl & pfcpremosgirl!

Its been a while since my last post, but I have been here reading everyones comments. Im still tapering...I hate this S**T more than ever. I cant wait to be done! I havent really experienced any more w/d's besides the lack of energy. It was a couple weeks ago I went through some pretty rough w/d's when I had the "cold" symptoms....They all seemed to come out then. Must of been going from high dose to low. I havent really had anymore. I hope that I dont...doubt that tho.
I can totally relate to what Price said a couple days ago, about not being able to do ANYTHING with out opaites. I am the same way... Have to clean the house (pop a couple) Have to go to the store (pop a couple) Just wanna chill and watch a movie (pop a couple) Anything and everything I had to do I had to take pills. But I want so badly to be done with that. I want a normal life where that is not a normal thing to want to be high. Im by no means nieve tho, I no it will be a constant fight the rest of my life. Well glad to see so many are finding this forum, it is great. I know it has helped me and is still a daily comfort to be here.Heather that is awsome that ur dr is doing a study on you and sending it to the FDA.

Talk to everyone soon....

Muah****

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by KC67, Mar 05, 2009
Hi everyone and welcome pfcpremosgirl and bodegirl!
Ahhhh.  I completely feel your pain all over again through your posts.  Today is Day 25 Tramadol FREE for me and I keep coming back to this site for support and reminders of how I NEVER want to experience those early withdrawal days again!  Hang in there though.  As everyone has said before, it DOES get better.  

At Day 25, I can say that sleep is much better although I still have some restless nights where I feel that I have gotten very poor sleep – not the good, deep, REM sleep that we all need.  Also, I still have some pretty intense ‘bouts of depression and anxiety.  As Kev said (great post by the way Kev!), I am a “Type A” personality – I like to DO – and go go go!  I’m not good at relaxing and chilling out.  That’s one of the reasons I think I got addicted to the Trams – I liked the way they gave me a ton of energy AND a good mood AND relieved my back pain!  I remember 3 years ago thinking that I had finally found my miracle drug!  

Well it wasn’t long before my occasional use of the Trams became DAILY.  And my 2-50mg pills/day weren’t enough.  I had to have 8 or 9 per day just to function.  As Shadetree mentioned in her post,  I could always come up with a reason to pop some trams – even when I wasn’t feeling any pain.   If I had not found this (Emily’s) site back in Dec. 2008, I would probably still be increasing my doses and getting closer to death.  

This is an extremely difficult drug to kick because not only are the physical withdrawals a “bear”, but the emotional side effects randomly pop up and make you feel like you are completely going crazy.  With each day that passes, with each day that I am forced to FEEL my emotions – as uncomfortable as they may be – I am trying to change my thinking (as Kev said).  I am trying to get my mind set in a positive direction and truly envisioning a life for me WITHOUT any pills or substances.  You see, us “Type A’s” enjoy NOT FEELING.  We like to go and go and go, but we don’t have time for the emotional angst.  We prefer to “numb” ourselves to feeling anything uncomfortable.  

When I was going through the hardest part of withdrawal (the 1st 10 days), Emily & PriceIsRight suggested that I take on a “this is war” attitude.  This attitude helped tremendously.  Use your anger to wage war against the Trams and how it has stolen your life!  I was prepared and I knew that my body was going to HAVE to feel the icky withdrawals of this drug.  There was NO WAY around it.  I was going to HAVE to experience it.  So I decided to embrace it.  

I said to my symptoms (any my body), “Welcome.  I know you are here because you - my body - are doing its best to rid my very cells of this poison that should never have been ingested in the first place.  I welcome you because you - my body - are doing its job.  I know that these symptoms won’t last forever and I know I have to go THROUGH this to beat you!  There is no easy way around it.  My body and I have declared war on the residual bits of poison that you (Tramadol) have placed within my cells.  But this stronghold you have over me, is temporary.  I embrace these awful symptoms because I will eventually win!”

Folks it is a battle – not just for those of you who are in the first 10 days – but for ALL of us.  For me, it will be a lifelong battle to fight my inner desire to “numb” my feelings and pop a pill or take something…anything to bring my “Type A” hiney down a notch!  So to prepare for this lifelong battle, I need a proper mindset as Kev mentioned above.  There ARE alternatives and there are some excellent programs out there to help us (look back at Fred’s and Matthew’s posts).  

Are you ready for battle?  Not just the short-term battle of kicking your Tram.addiction, but the long-term battle of living life to its fullest?  Thanks to all of your stories & support, I am getting there…slowly but surely.


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by emergee, Mar 05, 2009
re hot baths with epsom salts. they work.   right from the start i followed our emily's advice on these, but frankly i was so sick i couldnt really tell if the salts made any difference.  NOW, after 3 months, and i am not sick but still having wierd after effects,  i know FOR SURE , the salts make a huge difference.  they literally strip the stress out of your body.   whatever i have isn't exactly anxiety , but it is waay not normal in the nervous system department.  epsom salts calm you down,  relax you,  and make you feel more normal.

gee, thanks fred.  


and kevin,  as for the "experts",  they need to be flushed.     it is almost something in the air- all our authorities seem to be failing us.   from the sec,  to our gov and press lying to us,  to the drug companies, food companies.  yes,  why not trust ourselves?  much safer...



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by suzipen, Mar 05, 2009
Hi all,

Wow, Kev..............great post. I am also a "Type A". so I can relate so well to your words.  I have, ironically, been working on my attitude and mood as well before I leave my house.
As far as being selfish, I am finding that it is A MUST if I want to be available emotionally and physically for others in my life.
My mother has terrible health issues and is lucky to still be alive. She is a diabetic,has congestive heart failure,and TONS of other things going on . BUT, she never took care of herself in anyway. She, I am sure, thought she was being a good mother by neglecting herself for her children, but it now I know that it doesnt work that way.
She is only 66, and there are 90 year olds running circles around her.
Anyways, I have fortunately realized this: I must take care of myself also!
So, I no longer let the guilt overcome me when I take time for myself. I know my family and friends will benefit from this as well.

Hey Emily, how are the plans coming for the vacation? :)

Love you guys,
suzi

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 05, 2009
Is busting out crying normal with tram withdrawal? Like, I see a commercial that reminds of my now deceased Golden Retriever, and just BAM, I'm crying so hard I can't see? I guess it is. I hate that. I am feeling a lot of emotions I hadn't felt in a long time. Im struggling for the energy to cook lunch for my kids and sweeping my floor, and washing dishes, and folding clothes, this is the test for me! Trams gave me energy to spare, and I lost 50 lbs on it....ohhhh I need to remember why I'm doing this, to live, and be healthy. I just popped in to read some more. Keep my motivation up:-) I am going to do this.

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by EmilyPost, Mar 05, 2009
pfcpremosgrl;

That's very normal w/d for Tramadol.

Tramadol eventually will kill you dead dead dead unless you cease takng it forever ...

It is a Liar!


(((((suzi))))) I'm 30-45 minutes from the Beach so come on over ...

:D
Em

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by hcii, Mar 05, 2009
First, praise to those who are completely Tram free.  Those who have gone CT from even large doses.

With that being said, I know that my comments may be minor and uninteresting, but...wow....it is huge to me.

In one of my earlier posts I had told that I have been on Trams for 7 years now.  After about the first couple years I went to the full recommended dosage of 2 tabs every 6 hrs.  400 mg / day.  Of course....everyone that has taken them that long know that the tolerance increases.  I was up to anywhere from 10-16 per day depending.  At that time, KY allowed Trams to be shipped in.  Not a problem for me to order a script extra every now and then.

But...I have taken my first step.  Today I just finished my normal refill, and I did the whole month at no more than 5 / day.
I refill again tomorrow, and I am going to begin 4 / day.  The first few days of taper was pretty rough, but....the MOST important thing that I figured out was WHEN to take them as to where I could still function normally.  I wasn't doing the 1 every 3 or 4 hours.  I would take 3 right when I first got up, and then I could function normally at work.  Just as soon as I was on my way home, I would take the other 2, and their would be enough residual in my body as to where I could sleep halfway normally.

So....beginning tomorrow, it's 2 in the morning, and 2 in the evening.  Then next month I am going to reduce to 3 per day.

I would have never believed that I could have done this.  If you were to ask me about this last year, I would have told you that I could never get by on less.

Now I KNOW I can.

May take me a while to completely be Tram free, but even these baby steps are HUGE to me.  Just thought I would offer a little bit of hope to those who think they can't.  Just get a plan, self-discipline, and do your best to stick to it.

YOU CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN!


HCII



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by Shadetree, Mar 05, 2009
Everyone keeps talking about how Tramadol will kill you. Do you guys mean like the fog it puts you in, to not pay attention when your driving like my car accident for instance...Or am I missing something. Its starting to scare me, as it should. Just wandering if I dont know something...

Thanks

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 05, 2009
I had a what should have been a life altering encounter in Feb 08. I fainted, out of the blue, fell, hit my head HARD, had a seizure.....and still kept taking it, even more and more. Then one morning, about 7 months later, sitting at home on my couch, husband and kids staring at me, hubby said ambulance was on the way, and I asked what he was talking about? He said I'd been talking jibberish, making no sense, didn't know what day it was and for a minute, didn't know him. Both times, all scans and tests came back clean, MRI, ct scan, urine and blood tests!! Ultram won't show on a drug screen. Well, they didn't find anything to account for EITHER event, so I KEPT ON!! That alone would eventually have killed me. I'm sure of it. I could have seized on the road and died...either way, tramadol would be to blame and no one would ever know. I kept it all a secret VERY well.

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by Shadetree, Mar 05, 2009
Hey Pfc,
I can relate...Im married and have three kids. In dec. 08 I blacked out while driving, and woke up upside down. I flipped and totalled my car...I woke up (thank God) I was by myself (thank God) Didnt hurt anyone (thank God). Went to the er got ct scans, eeg, heart rate monitor the whole nine. Nothing came up. (thank God) This has been my dirty little secret that NO ONE knows. Or would guess for that matter. So I know Im am very lucky I didnt die! So after that why did I keep taking it....?
I am just soooo thankful I found this site! This is the only output I have...

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 05, 2009
Oh yeah, the drug that lets you pass any test with flying colors, EEG, CT scan, Drug screens, 24 hr holter heart monitor, MRI, all of it....what did they THINK caused it I've always wondered. My neurologist told me "its one of those things we will never know", well I knew, wasn't about to come clean. They even KNEW I took Ultram! Still they had no idea. The neurologist said Tramadol lowered the seizure threshold, but it probably wasn't the cause! I was right in front of them, multiple times, and no one figured it out, no one stepped in, no one said STOP....so I didn't. Thank GOD I am ok. Thank GOD I finally did something about it. I just told my husband, I had been so afraid to do that. But he is going to be my accountability partner for whatever they give me for pain. He keeps it, gives it to me as the label says, and thats that. No more tramadol though! He actually said "I didn't know it had gotten that bad", hugged me, told me its ok, and shocked me! I knew he would yell! But this feels so good to talk to HIM about it now too! That was a HUGE step, fessing up to the man I love, and had been hiding it from!

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by MsMarie1981, Mar 05, 2009
PFC I'm so PROUD of you for talking to your hubby!  I'm so glad that you don't have to do this alone :)  well, we're here for you so you wouldn't have been completely alone, but still...

I was actually just writing to mention to anyone who is tapering or trying to quit it can be really helpful to give someone else your pills. Tommy gave me his through his taper and last night mentioned to me that many times he thinks he would have upped his dosage for a day to get through a tough meeting, or if he was feeling bad, or whatever, but having me handing them to him made that not an option so he was able to taper successffully.  I'd had no idea that he was tempted, but i'm SO glad that he wasn't able to give in to his baser intentions :)  As I've mentioned, he's been feeling pretty well, and is now 7 days, yep, a WHOLE WEEK clean!!!    If you have someone that you trust with your secret and that you know will help you, it might be good to enlist them to administer your pills.  


all my love and best wishes to the tram warriors


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by Shadetree, Mar 05, 2009


pfc~
They had no idea what it was... at the er they gave me a rx for tramadol and sent me on my way. I followed up with my dr and then had all the test run. I had to in order to hide my addiction...plus I really wanted to see if I had or was causing damage to my brain.  Everything was just fine, the dr said I dont know its probably one of those fluke things...Like you tho, I knew. So I dumped my tram down the toliet and swore off of it. The next day all hell broke loose (w/d's kicked in, hard) I filled the rx and decided to taper. So that is where I am now, tapering. I am at 3 1/2 a day. So as long as I progress each week I will be happy, until Im eventually off. That is soooo awsome you could confide in your husband....
good luck to you.

ttys


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by kevzx81, Mar 05, 2009
KC- Exactly right about prefering numbness,avoiding angst.My back pain became another thing to avoid. Too much avoidance!! Thats a life ruled by fear. FEAR KILLS. TRAM KILLS.They are partners in crime. Weve discussed before how anger is far more useful in w/d than depression or fear. But anger isnt a good fuel for self healing after Tram. There is a hard energy within anger that also exists in determination though. Im trying to 'transfer' this hard energy into a more gentle purpose; renewing my life and behaviours to be kinder and more compassionate towards myself. But this time I will do it with more determination.
Looking at my feelings now, to find where it will come from... I am determined not to treat myself so carelessly ever again.
Im determined in my belief that I am the best person to care for me.
I think we must all have some stuff we feel determined not to put ourselves through again after this nightmare,I think determination will be as big a feature in post Tram life as in w/d, BUT NOT AS GRIM!! from the determination to survive we can move to a determination to make ourselves more well.More happy. We will need this determination to ward off the scoffers and general negative messages around us. To say " Dam*it, I WILL NOT get out of the bath yet,let my dinner go cold,do more than I think I should etc ad infinitum.
Im also finding that focussing on determination ( a steady feeling) is helping to ward off the hyper moods(unsteady feelings) that can come with a bounce-back for me. Too much to assimilate....does not compute..the dilithium crystals cannae take it captain!!!
All this newness of feeling feels VERY unsteady, but in a good way, a reforming way.
Keeping things at a gentle pace and not getting over excited will be my main mission for now.

Fred- Youve been so much help to me. Not just in the wisdom of your words but in the calmness you exude. Ive come to really admire and envy this about you. Well Ive never heard a tune I cant learn yet, so I'll be copying you as fast as I can;
Because I really do want more calmness in my life.

Im sorry I cant get back to everyone..its the dilithium crystals again!!


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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 05, 2009
Thank you! He is being absolutely amazing...I should never have underestimated him, but not knowing how someone you love is going to react, thats scary. He has also agreed to be my accountability person, so to speak. Whatever I get, ANYTHING medicinal, from now on, he keeps the pills, and gives them to me as prescribed. That feels good. He is a soldier, isn't home ALL day, but before he lives, he gives me whatever I get, at lunch, and when he gets home. If /when he deploys, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. We just moved here, which is stressful in itself, and I'm still trying to meet people and make friends. Hopefully when the times comes for him to go to the middle east again, I'll have someone I trust to help me. I am going to soak in a shower for a half hr. Kids are bathed, and I'm getting sweaty again....ugh

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by Organica, Mar 05, 2009
Hi Everyone!
It has been a while since I have come here.. SO many posts.. SO many new people.. but still the same great vibe!
It would be wonderful to go through all these posts and note the symptoms, best treatments etc.. Emily you have created an amazing source of info.. and incredible support.

It has been just over 2 months T-free for me... and I did a very slow and gentle taper.  And I have to say that I still have my days, but they are few and far between.
I really recommend earthy and physical stuff.. gardening.. swimming... get on yr bike!  I became very insular and disconnected on this b***dy drug and find reconnection through nature a good one.

I have really enjoyed reading your posts.. you are all just fabulous!

(((emergee))) I really hope things are picking up for you. (((Emily,suzipen))) I live a block from the ocean.. unfortunately  I'm on the other side of the world.. But ocean therapy rocks!

love and strength to you all,
Sue

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by DavidM3, Mar 05, 2009
I must have posted on the old site cause I posted on 2/28 and got no response. Anyway, on Tuesday I tapered down to 1 pill a week. On 2/24 I decided I wanted to quit Trams. I had no idea their would be withdrawals(since its not a narcotic HAHA) I was taking about 6-8 50mg pills a day. The next day I felt like I got hit by a truck. I had shortness of breath, my legs were stiff as boards, lower back pain, anxiety, and dry-heaves. I saw a substance abuse counselor and he told me to taper off. I was glad about that because I dont think I could have done it cold turkey. So last week I went from 6-8pills a day to only 2 a day. Boy was I stressin! I had sick and twisted dreams, crying for no reason at all, no energy, and no appetite. After a few days I started to feel somewhat normal again.I gave the 2 aday a week and now im down to 1 a day. In about 5 more days im not sure if i should stop or take half a pill for a week and then stop. Its really wierd, when I wake up I count down the hours and minutes until i can take my fix. Then to help me sleep I double up on my clonazapine(i have anxiety disorder) and depakote. I also have SVT so I hope detoxin isnt sressful on the heart(im on metoprolol for that). I was taking the trams for pleasure not pain so I didnt think I would have trouble quitting. Quitting vicodin and darvoset was a breeze compared to this.Is there any vitamins or foods that speed this **** out of your system? I take a multi with my first meal but are there any I should take megadoses of? Are there any foods I should avoid? Whats best for head-aches and bodyaches(i cant take ibuprofen)? When I have completely tapered off, will I have the same nasty withdrawals as I did when I first started tapering? Did any of the guys have trouble urinating while taking large doses of this? I sure did!!! Any advice will greatly be appreciated!!!!!!!!

P.S. Does anybody know voodoo so we can put a curse on the witch doctor who invented this poison?!?!?!HAAHAAHAA

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by AnonGuy2, Mar 05, 2009
KC ---

How true you are about many things there. First, I also agree with kev that us Type A's can be very prone to tramadol for it's evil seductivness! Wait, is that even a word?

Like all of us current and ex-tram addicts, I too thought I'd found the "miracle drug/pill" years ago when I first got hooked. BTW, I completely remember that post of yours about welcoming the withdrawals, that was classic!

I must say, I am very jealous that you have had some nights without restlessness (or it at least seems that's what you were saying) as every night I have restlessness from the first hour of sleep to the last hour of sleep. Luckilly, as I've documented all too well, I can still get 8+ hours pretty easilly. I would love, love, love to sleep those hours with just waking up once or twice though! I'd bet it'll be many more weeks before that happens, unfortunately. :(


Emergee ---

Good call on the epsom salts. I have always heard such great things about this stuff and maybe one day I'll finally get around to buying some! I remember when I started the job I had before this one, the first week my feet would hurt so bad it felt like I'd broke them. I used to buy tennis balls to roll under my feet to massage them and it helped a lot. Then, a coworker at that job found out through a family member who's a nurse that epsom salt would be great to soak my feet in. By that time, though, the issues with my feet were already gone. My feet used to KILL me when in tram withdrawal on days 2-14 or so. It would feel like there were razor-sharp ice spears cutting through my feet and chilling them to the core. I tried multiple pairs of socks and all but nothing helped. I thought about getting the epsom salt at the time but never got around to it. Luckilly now, I don't have these issues anymore. :)


pfcpremosgirl ---

I actually found it super difficult to cry when heavy in tram withdrawal. I would be a little more emotional, however. I remember watching a couple different things on tv in the first 2 weeks in tram withdrawal that really hit my sensitive side and made me want to cry yet I found it almost impossible to shed a tear. It was quite strange, really, to both feel like crying and yet not be able to cry. I am not a cry type of person, which is typical since I'm a guy. So, again, very strange...


hcii ---

Hang in there! I hope everything goes well and I'm glad that you appreciate us. :)


MsMarie ---

Here, here to that! Going through it alone is pure hell! I have made it through the most difficult parts but it still hurts so bad to have not clued in anyone in my life who I love. I have everyone here (and THANK GOD for that) who knows, and two real life friends who know, but I only hear/talk to once every few weeks. And that's it! One day I'll inform my family but I want to wait until it's been 6-12 months or more. My ego/pride want me to come clean only when I can do it in a way where I've shown how strong I am. Maybe it's a foolish way of doing it, but it's the way I've chosen. There are many other more complex reasons, too, which I won't get in to.


ShadeTree ---

Everytime I hear you discuss the car wreck I get chills. That could have been me! I am so lucky that through the years of abuse that I never blacked out, fainted, lost consciousness, or anything of the sort while on high doses of tramadol. I am very lucky, no doubt.


Organica ---

I am happy to hear from you. I am glad that you're over 2 months and still going strong! Congratulations!  I so hear you on the exercise comment of "get on yet bike" -- One of my two real life friends who know what I've been going through has been through a lot of drugs with me in years past. As stated above, I don't see him or talk to him much. I ran into him about a week ago and he said how he just financed a new $1,200 bike from Sun & Ski Sports and whenever he's bored or needs to blow off some steam he goes and rides a few miles. I have been thinking about doing the same thing and still may because it sounds like an insanely good idea!


DavidM3 ---

You're definitely in the right place. I am running out of time at this point so I am sorry that I cannot answer all of your questions. However, they've all been answered in previous posts and/or pages in tons of detail, everything from tapering suggestions, foods, headache/bodyache remedies/meds, withdrawals to expect, etc. I myself have discussed nearly all of these in lots of posts (except tapering since I did not do that so I can't give good advice on it).

I will say that I certainly did have trouble urinating on high doses of tram, but only when I first started taking it. I remember for the first couple years I took it how when I would go to the urinal it could take up to 30-60 seconds to start relieving myself. Sometimes I would even have to give up and try again later. The other bit is lots of hell, too, and by that I mean the constipation. I would only go #2 about once/twice a week and when I did I would have HUGE "deposits" (for lack of a better term) and, without getting too graphic, many times passing them would make me bleed.


*******
Well, it's just about time for bed. Thursday night is an early bedtime for me since I've got to be at work at 6am. Is anyone else looking forward to the extra 1 hour of daylight Sunday night with Daylight Savings Time? I sure am!

I used to fear the darkness of night coming like you wouldn't believe the first 3-5 nights coming off tramadol. Why? The sleeplessness! When night would come, I'd get so depressed and riddled with anxiety.

I certainly get sleep now, that's for sure, but I still don't enjoy it getting dark out so early. So I, for one, really welcome DST kicking in after this weekend! WOO-HOO!!!!


- Dave
aka Dave'sOver3WeeksClean! :D

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by emergee, Mar 05, 2009
dave m3,
     you may eventually find you don't need the metoprol.   i got palpitations in september,  got a perscription for metoprol.   now i realize that tram CAUSED the palpitations.  


shadetree,   tram just rips you body up.  i think nearly everyone here can attest to that.  one system after another goes bad,  so extrapolate that out and pretty soon you are dead.  not to mention the seizure issue.   not to mention the psychological death that happens by inches and you don't even realize it.

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by JT50, Mar 05, 2009
I was searching the net on any studies on this drug and why someone isn't screaming from the rooftops about the danger of this drug.  I did find a few articles from some medical journals and some psychiatric organizations.  I then came across a clinic in California that claims to be able to detox you from Tramadol within hours as you are comfortable under light anesthesia.  The claim: "Patients sleep comfortably under light anesthesia while medications cleanse the opiates from their opiate receptors".  It's called "Waismann Method of Rapid Detox for Tramadol".  Here is the link:

http://www.opiates.com/tramadol/tramadol-addiction.html?gclid=CO3Zs8WgjZkCFRJdxwod_Vb4aA

I apologize if this has already been discussed previously.  Has anyone done or considered anything like this?  I wonder if it's one of those "it's too good to be true" things.  That sounds amazing to simply sleep through the entire WD.  I bet it costs a fortune too even after travel expenses.

On another note, I didn't sleep lastnight.  The two Unisomes didn't work like they did the previous night.  I currently have a bad head cold  and took two Tylenols lastnight with the two Unisomes and I'm thinking that perhaps the Acetaminophen might have counteracted the sleeping pills.  I had to take a Claritin-D 24 tablet around noon today so I hope it doesn't interfere with sleep too.  If I'm back at 02:00 you'll know I'm up and pacing.
--
JT

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by craneid, Mar 05, 2009
Hello Everyone...

First off I would like to thank all of you for your stories. You have all been my angels. I have been hooked on Tramadol for about 3 years now. It all started after I had my daughter. I always liked doing opiates....but they were really expensive and I knew I didn't want to be itchy and pin eyed all day....so I never did them very often. My Mother in law brought over some tram after I had my daughter. She told me that her Doc said they were NOT addicting and that they wouldn't give me any crazy side affects. I was curious...I took 1/2 a pill...I ended up cleaning every damn corner of my house...I skipped dinner..and was feeling great. I denied to everyone that the tram got me "high"...I didn't want anyone to know I was becoming a tram junkie and I sure as hell didn't want to share any. LOL
What hell my life was. I lost my home....I lost my ENTIRE sex drive ( which I thought Tramadol was helping )
I lost my Job...and so on. I think you all know what can happen. I was ordering 180 pills a week from the web...and wondering how come I didn't have a dime. I would never admit it was the Tramadol...I swore that without it life would be a lot worse.
Anyway, last Saturday (5 days ago) my husband flushed my pills down the drain. I was very upset. Deep down I wanted to get clean so bad. I hated waking up with horrible pain...and popping some tram before I feed my little girl. PATHETIC!!!!
Tramadol has ruined my life. I am determined to get through this....( at this moment anyway). Withdrawals are the worst. I have crying fits...I haven't been able to eat...I feel like I want to throw myself in front of a bus. I feel like life is pointless.
This depression is killing me. I feel like I want to crawl out of my skin. I have no desire to do anything...I really want to go through this...but it doesn't feel like things are getting any better. My hubby says I am doing great compared to the first couple days....but I feel horrible. I HATE TRAMADOL!!!!!!!! When will this get better? When did you actually wake up and want to brush your hair and get out of your PJs?

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by DavidM3, Mar 05, 2009
emergy


I started taking metoprolol last July 2008 when I had SVT way before I started taking the Trams. I've only been taking Tramadol since the beginning of January of this year. So it couldnt be the trams.

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by kes68, Mar 05, 2009
Hi all,

I just took an hour and quickly read through the last posts - it is great to read all the different (yet so similar) stories.

I am still doing the slow taper - I dumped two more from my day - because I wasn't experiencing many withdrawal symptoms - so from 20 to 12 right now - it just seems like it is going to take forever.  I wish I didn't have my own business, and could call in sick for 2 weeks - pretend like I had the flu from hell, and let my partner take care of me.
I know once I get down to the lower doses I will start to feel the withdrawal.  One of my toughest things is getting over the guilt, shame etc.  When I was C/T from oxy - I was feeling horrible, but it somehow lifted the guilt - it was like you do the crime you suffer the punishment!
I can't tell if my lack of energy is from the taper, or if it is because I feel like I have lost complete control of my life, that I have made a huge mess of things that will eventually catch up with me.  (wait until my partner figures out the money that is missing from our "renovation" fund)
I know the only way out is to get off this, be as honest as I can and try and re-build my life, self esteem - like someone said earlier - how to live life without popping a pill to get by.  I've had back/disc issues for so long, and been on some sort of painkiller for what seems like forever.  I also am a member of the type A group - I love to feel like superwoman - doing 100 tasks at the same time.  This lack of energy **** is killing me.  
But at least I am moving towards something now!
I remember hearing someone say at an AA meeting  - that when you are denying your addiction, and letting run your life - you are moving towards death.  Once you take that first step, admit the problem, and start working on it - you become in range of life.
Hang in there.

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by CatchingUP, Mar 06, 2009
Hi All,
I guess I am what they call a lurker, I have been reading for weeks but this is my first post.  I thought it important.  I was on Tramadol for well over a year, prescribed by a friendly doctor who should have known better (he is a pain specialist).  At first they were great, my pain went away and I also felt a bit of a lift.  Then the creep began, six a day, ten a day, twenty a day.  Once I thought after I took 12 at once I was ODing and went to the hospital, but their therapy was to sit me down and watch me, which I could do myself.

Finally went through all my prescriptions and was buying online about hundred dollars a week.  And of course my life went to hell, job, relationships, leading to bankruptcy.  Well you know the story.  I tried cutting back, couldn't.  Maybe if I had someone else who had absolute control of the pills it's possible, maybe.

Finally I went back to my original doctor who was somewhat surprised, but not as much as he should have been!  So he basically tried an experiment on me.  Some of you may have heard of Subutex tablets?  It's mainly buprenorphine hydrochloride, which has become the preferred treatment among many for opiate addiction.  It takes the place in the brain of the opiate, like methadone does, but can be prescribed by a doctor and picked up at a regular pharmacy.

He didn't know if it would work for Tramadol. It does. In one day I switched from Tramadol to Suboxone with no withdrawal.  Now he also gave me at the same time Ambien (for sleep), Clonidine (not sure what it does but it doesn't seem to be too dangerous), and a dozen valium in case it got bad. Now I am no doctor and my case may be special but it worked for me.  Oh, I forgot he also said that quitting Tramadol can cause a major depression, it did!  So he gave me a dozen Zoloft.  But the main thing was the Suboxone.

Now after about of week off the Tramadol I decided I didn't want to be addicted to the Suboxone either.  I suppose it too can be abused but I was not tempted like I was by the Tramadol.  Also he gave me the lowest dosage pills, I don't have the container, but I believe they were like .2 milligrams, anyway they were not the strong ones.  And I found I didn't even need a whole pill.  I kept taking smaller and smaller pieces of the Suboxone till it was just a quarter.  A week later I threw the rest down the sink.

And then I used the valium etc to sleep through the Suboxone withdrawal.  Not a painless process, but no Tramadol withdrawal either.  I did have about a week of bad depression.  I spent as much time as I could asleep or in bed, and I felt lousy, but not unbearably so.  I suppose one could even stay on the Suboxone at a maintenance dosage if necessary. And one would need a doctor who is willing to prescribe it.

I don't know if this would work for others. It worked for me.  Now if I can just keep up my spirits, some days are still pretty bad, just maybe I will be free.
Ladd

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by CatchingUP, Mar 06, 2009
PS
I don't know why, maybe it's the potassium, but bananas seem to help!

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 06, 2009
I think I can do this! Seriously, I managed to clean my house, kinda, spend some fun time, although quiet time, with my kids, and SLEEP, sweet sleep. I feel like I'm getting off too easy here. The worst of this is the weepy times, and the hot flashes, sweats, cold chills, and stomach problems. Thats it. I'm not taking anything to replace the trams. I'm only taking my other prescriptions. Mobic, also for the shoulder pain, and Lotrel, for high blood pressure. Nothing else. I did take a dose of Pepto Max, had to. My sleep isn't perfect, but at least I'm getting some. I have a rule no matter how many times I wake up, don't get up. I just get comfy again, close my eyes, and eventually sleep will come. So then at least I've rested. My shoulder on the other hand, is starting to really be an issue. This is what I'm afraid of. The pain there that prevents me from doing a whole lot with it. What else is there, besides even stronger pain meds? In any case, my husband gets any and all meds of mine from now on. THis is not happening to me again.

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 06, 2009
Quick question, anyone been on Cymbalta? I'm thinking of maybe trying that? I am waiting on a call back from my drs office. I have to do something. I'm depressed, don't wanna do anything....I think I'm doing ok with withdrawal, per se, but I can't just live like this. I hear Cymbalta helps pain as well as depression. Even just that would vastly improve my attitude. My drs office just called me back, said to take benadryl every 6 hrs along with Ibuprofen. He told me that Tramadol is not a narcotic, and you can't really get "addicted", you just get used to it....more bs, huh? He also said if it gets worse over the weekend and not better with the benadryl and ibuprofen to go to the ER. He said it should be completely resolved in 4 or 5 days. Boy, I tell ya, no help whatsoever. I will try the benadryl/ibuprofen combo though...anything is worth a try.

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by kevzx81, Mar 06, 2009
pfc-HANG IN THERE, it will get better soon. sorry youre feeling depressed, I remember you fearing this would happen in an earlier post( I thought the fact that you werent ALREADY depressed showed great strength).
The depression could be Tram w/d symptom so it might be wise to wait before considering meds for this.Many of us here have had depression in w/d. I did, but it was resolved without meds. The best weapon against depression in w/d is anger, it has lots of energy.I was feeling angry at my doc AND myself for treating me so badly and that helped me through w/d.
Fear is the big enemy(your husband is a soldier,so you know better than me!)and this is where the pain becomes a problem. Like yourself and others here I face the problem?challenge? of finding other ways to manage pain. I was in a state of fearing pain,fearing each day,fearing the frustration etc of not being able to function properly. I see you have shoulder pain. When we have pain for a long time, mindset and feelings can get messed up. I made thie pain problem wait til after the worst of w/d. Now Im sorting out my mindset, finding out how much of the pain I am causing myself.
Im looking far and wide for other possibilities too. Im hoping we can all share resources on this one as any of us wanting to 'stay clean' will be facing this if we have pain.

It may interest you to know that some of Emilys w/d strategies came from servicemen!!! The advice about fear/anger/depression comes from that source. So does the idea of 'laying in your foxhole' when w/d is 'shelling' you.
Rest when you can. and talk more to your husband about how this feels, you might be surprised how well he relates.
We're all rooting for you.


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by Shadetree, Mar 06, 2009
Hello everyone,

I am now down to 2 & 1/2 pills per day...) I eliminated my evening dose. I havent had trouble sleeping yet, I havent taken it in the evening for 3 days now. Last night well should I say this morning at about 3 am..I woke up to chills and severe abdominal pain. I felt like my entire stomach/intestines were on FIRE! I got up and went to the bathroom where I stayed for about a 1/2 hr with chills and shaking like a leaf. I forgot to turn the heat on last night. ( It has been warm here so I turn it off during the day) So I went down the hall to check the thermostat, it was 70 degrees in the house so it wasnt that. So back to the bathroom I go, I wasnt sure what end was gonna explode...(sorry) I finally got it out...it was horrible. Afterwards I soaked in the bathtub for a good 45 mins. I went back to bed and laying there going back to sleep I was thinking oh no I have the flu...this is my chance! I will just stop altogether and take today off and recover over the weekend.. Well when I woke up this morning I felt fine so I know it was the lack of tram. I took my dose and off to work I went. I am getting close though and it feels great.

I am tired of being scared to be alone (with the tram) I always fear that "something" will happen like I will pass out and hit my head or have a seizure and no one will know and wont find me until its too late. It has always been with high doses, but the other day I was at my reg dose and started to feel funny...and got scared. I was at work so I would go talk to someone and bide my time. This is really a shame! Everyday the tram effects me different. I hate not knowing what to expect. But I will soon be done and sooooo over tramadol! Cant wait. Just wondering if anyone else has shared in this fear...

Pfc~ My mom tried cymbalta for depression. She said it worked fine while she was on it, but when she tried to get off, it was HELL! She googled it and found tons of horror stories just like that, it was fine while on it but if you decide to get off...Look out. But Everyone is different. I hope you find something that works for you. That is the absolute worst to get depression not to mention trying to take care of children during it. I know its happend to me. I hate that for you! That is mainly the reason for my tapering. To avoid the depression, physical w/d's are bad but depression for me is the worst!

CatchingUp~ Welcome...My dad went through a similar situation. He was addicted to tramadol and his dr gave him suboxone to get off. He is still on it though and I dont think he has plans to get off. At first he was getting high on them...which I found hard to believe, so he gave me a couple to prove it to me. Sure enough I got high on them, it was very comparable to vicoden. Energy for days....euphoria and all. They gave me SEVERE constipation tho, scary constipation so I havent wanted to do them again. I think he is over the "high" now tho, its just maintanace now. Or so he says. Did you feel that way? Good for you for getting off those too. I wandered why the dr. would just switch his addiction instead of getting him off of everything.  But that is drs in cahoots with the drug companies if you ask me...

Gotta go, talk to everyone soon...



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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 06, 2009
Thanks for the advice and support everyone. You may not believe this, but I just had an amazing morning! I said "I am kicking tramadols a** today!!", and I blasted my music, danced with my kids, had soooo much fun! Then used that endorphin rush to push thru and get this whole house clean...a totally natural high! It was wonderful! But now.....I've crashed, the energy is gone, and I wanna lay one the couch. But still, being able to say I had a wonderful morning is a huge deal! I'm not rushing to get on ANY meds, cuz I KNOW I can do this.. Ijust proved it to myself. I'm still not letting down my guard though, this is just day 3. And I lucked out with the music induced endorphin rush.

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by MsMarie1981, Mar 06, 2009
PFCPremosGirl

Tommyboy is my boyfriend, and like I've mentioned before when I found out about the tram we went to a doctor (who had no experience with tramadol addiction whatsoever...)  He prescribed my boyfriend 3 drugs for physical symptoms of withdrawal and Cymbalta for depression.  The problem with that is that Cymbalta has to be tapered as well...Because tramadol has an antidepressant component to it it prevents your brain from properly creating or understanding the hormones that make you feel happiness, calm, balance, etc...In withdrawal your body is like "WTF? Where are my happy pills" and you fill the side effects of the missing drug long before your body realizes that it needs to start creating those feelings for itself again.  This time period can last a while from Emily's and other's accounts, but it does end and your brain retrains itself to receive and interpret happy hormones.  The problem with Cymbalta is that it is just filling in for Tram in that sense.  Your brain won't learn to adjust until it is without a drug to make it happy.  And if and when you want to get off of it you will have to taper as with tram, and may experience withdrawal symptoms as well.  So thats why we chose to never fill that prescription.

That being said, there are many many people with very real chemical depressions that may not only be withdrawal related, and I would NEVER discourage you from seeking the help you feel that you need.  I went through a VERY rough patch last summer and I didn't feel comfortable taking a prescription for my depression, so I started on a supplement called Sam-E which is a naturally occuring chemical in your body that helps your brain transmit happy feelings in times when its not doing a great job of that.  Its like taking calcium pills for bone loss.  I'm just saying there are alternatives if you're interested.  For me, I felt the effects of Sam-E within a week, though it did make my dreams weird and sleep a little weird too.  Its an expensive supplement but for me it was worth every penny.  After a few months I felt like I didn't need it anymore and I stopped taking it when I ran out.  It might be worthwhile for you to google it and see if it might be a decent alternative for you.

Of course, I'm not a doctor I just wanted to share what has worked for me. :)

Very best of luck to you.

*****EVERYONE******
I just wanted to encourage you all to inform as many people as you can about the toxicity of this drug. I'm afraid we on this website are the sole source of information on tramadol addiction.  I am ASTONISHED by the number of new people on this site every day.  I'd like to try to count how many different post-ers we have had to get an idea of how many people are addicted. Not even to mention that for every person posting here I bet there are 10 who are reading and not posting.  And for each of those ten who are reading but not posting I bet there are 100 who are addicted but not reading.  Meaning for every one of us I bet there are 100 tram addicts with no support and no idea whats going on.  We are all so fortunate to have wandered our way to Emily's threads, but there are dozens(?) of people being prescribed this every day with NO way to expect addiction because they've been assured by their physicians they trust that it is safe. My point with all of this is that I'm SO glad we have this site for ourselves, but i wanted to remind everyone that we can do something to prevent other people from walking the same path toward addiction. I've been talking to every doctor (and a few pharmacists) I see about this, which hasn't really been that many :)  to inform them that this problem does exist.  I know this information is very personal and private to many of us, but I would encourage you all to discuss this whenever you feel COMFORTABLE, with other people, especially those in the medical community. I know that many doctors are complicit with pharmaceutical companies, but I also believe there are some good people, like my stepfather, in the medical profession who just don't know.  I'd never ask you to do anything you're not comfortable doing, but I think its so important to get the information out there and I'm afraid that if we dont, nobody will.  

all my support to all of you
me :)

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by NGatcomb, Mar 06, 2009
Hello All the Tram and Ul People!
After reading of what you all have gone through, my heart goes out to all of you.  I was prescribed that once and i had a reaction of the sweats, fever and vomiting, my husband who broke his back L4 after falling 25 ft from a tree decided to go back to work after 3 weeks and needed a pain killer that was not a narcotic so they prescribed him Tramadol they said it WAS NOT A NARCOTIC, as he was not allowed to use them whle working. He also had the same experience!!  It seems these withdrawals from Tramadol and Ultram are worse then getting off of painkillers like percoset, vicodine, is this true?  Also, why didn't the doctors prescribe you something to take you right off so you wouldn't get withdrawals?  It's not that you are a drug addict, yes you get addicted (your body does and yes your mind does also) but being in pain you do need something for the pain, but there is medicine to help you get off right away with no side effects. Tapering i feel is so hard to do, you don't want to feel awful going off of this as these were prescribed from a doctor and not on the streets it is up to the doctor to help you get off of them if you choose too!  I once went off of Oxocodone 15mg and my doctor replaced it with Klonodine, he said it would help with the withdrawals. I have many many medical problems that require me to be on pain meds, i've broken over 23 bones over the past 17 years due to osteoporosis and have 5 herniated/buldging discs in my back/neck. Fibroidmylsia caused by Lyme Disease, over 50% nerve damge in both arms and legs where my legs shake uncontrollably at times and is unstopable, 2 tears in L4,5, one fracture in my right leg left me with a disability with my leg being 2 inches shorter then the other and also healed crocked (sp?) so my right foot turns outward and i trip all the time. I have had Shngles 2x's in the past 2 years and i'm still fighting that pain as well, amongst many other things. And, believe it or not, Social Security DENIED ME BEING DISABLED!!  I wanted to cry as i don't have the money due to the cost of my medical bills to get therapy, all as i'm asking for is what i have earned in my life working, i'm not asking for money from the state for extra income.  I went to the dentist he found osteoporosis in my jaws, that bill was 7000 as i am unable to have a root canal only a bridge and have to see the dentist every 4 months, i do have nice teeth but just because of one back tooth needing to be pulled as it was cracked down to my jawbone i had to have the bridge instead. If your teeth are not taken care of it can cause heart disease, etc., so it is very important. As i was explaining earlier before getting off task, my doctor had given me Klonodine to help with my withdrawals from the Oxycodone (NOT oxicontin) i was fine so i didn't take it as i didn't feel any withdrawals, 2 days went by didn't feel any so i called my pharmacist and he said i better as i am probably going to crash. So i took one pill, the script was 1-2 every 4 hours, so for two days i took a total of 4 pills. All of a sudden, i got very lithargic, i could hear my heart beating in my ears, very very slow, i could actually feel my heart slowly stopping as the beats got longer and longer inbetween.  It also gave me the feeling of "I didn't care", now it was not a feeling of suicidal, i am a happy person, yes depressed because of my disabilities, but never suicidal. This was like a PEACEFUL FEELING, i told my friend when she came over "I feel  like my heart is going to stop, but i'm not afraid and i feel at such peace and i don't care about anything".  I called my pharmacist and he said "this is not normal call your doctor immediately".  I called my doctor who ordered me this medicine (he was a pain mgmt doctor, but did not have a license to dispense methadone nor Suboxone, so that is why he ordered me this Klonodine which is a BP medicine.  I called him 3 times as by this time by heartbeat was very slow, slurring my words, i couldn't get off the couch, i called him back he still would not call me back, so i called my MD, she immediately said drink coffee and call the ambulance, i drank the coffee but had my friend take me to the hospital, when i got there my heartbeat was a 32. I was like really??  hmm, okay then the ER Doc came in drew some blood work to see what medicines were in my body, didn't think i had enough Klonodine to do this to me, i was in pain so he gave me a shot of Dilaudid as I had gone off of the Oxicodone as i thought i was having a reaction as i swelled up and got worried and hadn't had any in 5 days..so they knew everything i told them was the truth by my blood work.  I ended up in the hospital for 5 days. My doctor who didn't call me back - I DROPPED IMMEDIATELY - I called him after i got out and told him "I trusted you with my life, I had so much trust in you how could you betray me knowing i'm almost dying and not call me back?   I had to have my MD take over for you?  She did not order me any pain meds, you did it was your job and i paid you to take care of me, i told him it was an emergency i almost died and he couldn't even say he was sorry.  I was very hurt by his response. I have since found a new doctor who whenever i call him he answers his phone, he has his patients call him on his cell phone so he can take care of them and if there are any emergencies.  He is awesome!  But, i don't understand about the Tramadol and Ultracet, i have been told by so many doctors that this is a non narcotic medicine and my sister takes it everyday, her son (my nephew) has a PHD in Pharmacudical and is a Pharmacist, why doesn't he tell her this could happen to her?  Could you explain to me why your withdrawals are so bad and why they are so much worse then someone coming off percoset,etc.?  I feel so badly for you.  As far as the person with the Benzo's, please please do not go off these without your doctors care, I was on 4 mgs. of klonopin 4 x's per day and wanted to drop to 2 pr day as that was all i needed, they blasted me with Neurotin so i wouldn't have a seizure, then dropped me fast within 5 days i was on .05 mg 2 x's a day IR.  That was way too quick so i stayed on 2per day which is fine for me. But never go off of a Benzo without your doctors care as you could have a seizure, at least with klonopin i know that for a fact. Xanax i'm not sure of, but Benzo's are very tough to get off of.  Please explain to me why the tramadol is so different from others, it would be interesting to me and my husband who both had a reaction to them at the same time, differnt scripts, different drs., and also we got them at different pharmacies but both had the same reaction.  Thank you all and I can't wait to hear back from you!
I give you all my support and God Bless You!!!  
Nancy :)

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by bodegirl, Mar 06, 2009
Why do I feel like such hell still?  Im on day 6(tram free) and thought I would feel ok or at least a little better by today, but I almost feel just as bad as I did on day 3!  So tired, so sick, can barely function, cold sweats at night, no sleep. I feel as though nothing has improved.  I dont know how much more I can take.  HELP!!!!

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by NGatcomb, Mar 06, 2009
Well my friends, i have just read all of your stories!!  YOU ARE ALL HERO"S!!!  You battle this everyday!!  I'm so so sorry but you are all so strong and you all seem to be so supportive to one another and you need that!!  :)  I never never knew that Tramadol and Ultracet could be so addicting, as i said it did nothing for me, for my pain but i couldn't take it due to the reaction with the 1st one i took.  I have gone off my pain meds at times as i need to make sure that no new symptoms arise as you know pain meds block pain and you don't feel new pain, so in order to make sure you have to take a break from them which i do, but under the doctors care.  I don't understand why these doctors can order you these meds and not give you something to help you come off of them.  As for the stories i have read with the ones with herniated discs, etc., i know you are in pain, i can definately relate to you, but if you abuse the Tramadol you spoke of Pain Management.  If you find a GOOD PAIN MGMT DOCTOR, one who does not just give out meds when you have an xray with you, then you are ok.  A good Pain Mgmt Doctor will drug test you to make sure of your levels (as not to over use), make sure that is all you have in your system as what he prescribes, not just  give you pain meds, but makes you go to PT to help with the pain also and help with your back.  Also, he will not give you a script unless he sees you everytime, monitor you, and you can't get your meds until you are due to have them.  When he see's you start abusing them he will tell you, but most of all you must be honest with him.  If you need to take more you need to call and ask him his job is to help you with your pain and that is what pain mgmt. is all about.  Please just be aware there are some Pain Mgmt doctors out there just for your money, don't go to a pain mgmt docor if he only accepts cash and not insurance, that means there is something wrong.  Then when it is time that you want and need to come off your pain meds, he should have the license to dispense the right kind of meds to get you off.  Tapering I feel would be the hardest way to go, either it's cold turkey or meds to get you off.  Klonopin, please everyone this is a dangerous drug, i used to be on 4 because it was prescribed to me, not because i needed it, it never gave me a high, i dropped to 2 per day as i said above and my anxiety disorder is fine and 2 keeps it under control and i don't abuse them.  But going cold turkey with klonopin can put you into a seizure and a life or death situation and you are all too valuable of a person to let that happen to you!!  God Bless All of You!  Yes I do take Pain Meds, I am so happy that i found this place so i can read what can happen to me and also monitor myself, and it can and who knows might happen to me if i took more then i was prescribed.  It is so easy to abuse them, they give you a great high at first, but then they don't as your body becomes tolerant to them and your body and mind doesn't think you want them as your body is amune.  I don't know if that is good or bad, but so far so good.  I am just so shocked at reading about this Tramadol withdrawal it's floored me!  People will give help to those suffering from Narcotic withdrawal but why not Tramadol?  I just read and realize now what it can do to you, but so many many people do not know this!  I'm glad to have had the opportunity to read all of your letters, you are all Hero's for doing what you are doing, trying so hard but having each other will make such a difference!!!  I am PROUD OF EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU!!!  I pray the day comes when you are all over this and continue on without them.  love to you all!!!  :)I'll still be reading and praying and routing you on every minute!!!!!!!  :)

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by Sandyjo151, Mar 06, 2009
Thanks for this forum!  I have been on Tramadol for 6 months, taking between 7-20  50mg a day, and quit cold turkey on Sunday March 1st.  Terrible withdrawl symptoms, but one that is taking control the last couple of days is numbness and tingling in my arms, feet and legs, and feeling like I am having a heartattack - kind of like a panic attack.  Anyone else have these symptoms?  I thought since I have been off of them for 5 days that I should not be having any more withdrawl symptoms.  Thanks!

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by Organica, Mar 06, 2009
(((((bodegirl)))))
Please know that it may take time.  Day 6 is very early... but you have done it!!  That is amazing! You obviously have had the strength and determination to get this far.  I'm 2 months clear of the stuff and still have setbacks, but soon you will find there are periods of great clarity and you will be soooo glad you did this.
Keep posting.. reading... and know that you have support here.
It sounds so trite, but what you are going through will make you so strong... stronger than you have ever been.
love and strength to you,
Sue

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by DavidM3, Mar 06, 2009
Does anyone have uncontrollable disturbing thoughts while tapering off this garbage? I dont feel suicidal or anything but I get these visions of my own funeral. I imagine my family and friends walking by my casket and looking at my dead body and crying over me. I imagine my kids growing up not knowing their dad. I also sometimes get thoughts of my girlfriend and my kids getting in a car accident. Im only on my 10th day of my taper so maybe these depressing thoughts are normal.


I also wanted to ask Emily, I read in one of the first posts when i found this site, that you ate alot of tunafish sandwiches, bananas, spinach, and water. How did these particular foods help you? How much water do you recommend I drink? Can you sweat this poison out of your pores?

And to emergee, sorry I spelled your name wrong when I responded to your post last night.

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by Organica, Mar 06, 2009
DavidM3...

This is just my opinion, but when we dream we dream in archetypes... symbols, rather than what we perceive to be reality. I think that is what may be happening here.. The funeral that you are seeing is maybe that you are moving on... death of the old way.  Death of the Tramadol existance, if you like!
And even if it isn't, it is a positive way to look at it!

The awful car accidents involving others... you describe these as 'thoughts' rather than the 'visions' of the funeral.  That, I reckon, is the horrid angst that Tramadol induces.  I had them when I was on the stuff, and it became less as time went on. They appeared during my taper, and occaisionally now, but I know it is the Tram and its after-effects talking.

Sue x

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by DavidM3, Mar 06, 2009
Organica


Thanks for helping me see it that way.
I thought I was going insane!

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by kevzx81, Mar 06, 2009
Organica/DavidM3- I agree on the dreamarchetypes theory, and Tram seems to give us the thoughts and feelings of 'death dreams' even when awake, and much more. The part of us that wants more Tram speaks to us in desperation perhaps? Is this the 'inner child' fearing death? Or is Tram alive? (Im paranoid enough about this drug to believe it!).

About being stronger after that death,of no Tramadol...Our need for Tram rmust die. The excuses it offered us will be gone. The false confidence, social persona, pink cloud...all will die. I  think death dreams and thoughts are only to be expected given the situation. BUT; the birth of realer feeings and clearer thoughts  is only part of what we can gain.
Tram is unreal- the unreal fears the real- BECAUSE IT KNOWS IT CAN BE OVERCOME!

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by suzipen, Mar 06, 2009
Hi everyone,
Boy, it took me soooooo long to read the all latest that now I dont have time to post!
Our family sure is growing!
Glad to say:

WELCOME to everyone new!

Talk to you all soon.
Goodnight to all,
Suzi

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by kes68, Mar 07, 2009
David M3- I am tapering and have very serious dark thoughts - one of the reasons I am tapering is that when I stopped ct before my depression was crazy - horrible dark thoughts I had never had before- I was afraid what I might do - and was not nearly as informed about tram as I am now.  Right now I have dark moments, dreams , my anxiety - feelings of dread are unpredictable - but I get through them by reminding myself that I have to go through this to get to the other side - it is not me, not my thoughts - it is the tram trying to take over.  It will do anything it can to survive - make me continue using - my body is screaming out for more.  If I give in and up my dose - I will have to go through this all again.
We are not going insane - we are slowly leaving the insanity behind.  
I have mentioned before that I keep a few notes/lists with me - what tram has taken from my life, what I've lost, what I want back - and one of the lists is what my addiction will do to survive - the anxiety, darkness, sleeplessness, RLS, sweating etc.  It helps me remember it is not me - it's the tram trying to draw me back in.
I think it was KC who said earlier she viewed it as a war.  I agree - It is almost like it is another thing, an enemy that I must overpower and outwit.  If I lose the battle, I lose my freedom - and back to the tram frog, and helplessness of addiction.
Great to see all the posts - I learn something every time I log on.


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by craneid, Mar 07, 2009
DAVID M3- I am on day 7 now and I am still having those thoughts. My mind is messing with me big time. I have been thinking about my funeral as well. I'm glad I'm not the only one. I thought I was going to have to go to the hospital. Day 4 and 5 were the hardest for me. I am still very tired and spaced out...and I feel like there is someone standing on my chest. It *****.  
It does seem like I am a lot happier now though. I am laughing at things I would have not laughed at on tramadol...and food tastes a lot different. Weird huh? Okay, so I said I was having really horrible thoughts which I am...but they only seem to last about 2 or 3 hours. Anyway, I am blabbing...just thought I would let you know you are not alone.

You should all try drinking some VALERIAN tea. Celestial seasonings makes it...and they call it Sleepytime extra...I have found it at Target. Not all stores carry it. It is an all natural Valium...very safe I might add...and NON addicting.
It really helps relax me without feeling all dopey. The first few days I was popping Ativan left and right and things were such a blur. Not a buzz I would enjoy...thank GOD....I don't need another addiction. This one is tough enough.
WE ARE DOING THIS GUYS!!!! I probably wouldn't have made it this long if it wasn't for you.
Peace to all.
Cara


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by FinallyFred, Mar 07, 2009
I just have to say WOW to the wonderful streams of wisdom being shared by Organica, Kes, Kev and emergee.  It is terrific that you guys keep coming back and sharing your experiences with CONFIDENCE as newer folks drop by.  You guys rock.  I know that I was  personally encouraged during my own withdrawal from this awful drug by you Organica and emergee... when I stumbled onto this place just after Thanksgiving last year - you made every difference to me.  Thank you.

The first words of my first post here were "this place may just save my life".  With upmost sincerity  - this place  HAS SAVED MY LIFE.  

There ARE so many new people here - welcome.  Reading EACH your first posts reminds me SO much of my first days here - not so long ago.   For a non-addictive, safe little white pill - this TRAM sure kicks everyone's ASX in very much the same way, huh?  Amazing.

About December 1st last year, I was jumping off this terrible drug...EXACTLY where many of you are now.  I was full of much the same denial, FEAR, complaints, and objections that many of you  feel.  I am not terribly smart and I am not terribly strong.   I had a SIX year history of taking this ugly drug.  But for me, just knowing that others HAD beaten this awful addiction, gave me the hope that if I did what others had done, there just MIGHT be hope that I could make it too.

When I got here,  I felt I was terminally unique.  I thought I was the only person on the planet who had built up a tolerance  to tramadol (more of the drug was required to provide the same or less affect, and then it turned on me).  And as my supply of trams necessarily "tapered down" toward the end of EVERY RX cycle, I figured that I was the only one around who had experienced WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS every month.  I remember sharing early on just like some of you  are today - things I felt embarrassed to admit about my addiction.  But slowly with the help of my new friends here, I began to feel that I was in fact, NOT unique.  Slowly I discovred that I had been lied to.  It made me angry as hell and I focused that anger into a more productive determination to bEAT this thing that had been kicking my butt for years.

When I arrived here, I was ashamed to even admit that when each new "RX day" arrived, I "treated myself" to more than the 8 pills/day my M.D. perscribed.   But by "RX DAY(that date we all had circled on our calendars!!!)  I was in such severe withdrawal during the prior 4-5 days of taking "reduced rations", I was dying to feel LESS UNWELL again.  Like a f*cking rat,I did this month after month, for six years, not knowing that it was even possible to ever get off this drug.

I listen now to the stories of those who ordered tram online and it scares the hell out of me.  Cause that ABSOLUTELY could have been me taking 30 pills a day...except for some reason, umm... I wasn't aware I could even get trams online.  But I can assure you that THIS addict taking THIS terrible drug, would have been off the charts if I only knew... Thank God I never figured that one out.  (wink)

And then, just after Thanksgiving last year, I told myself that I just HAD to do something. I KNEW this stuff was addictive, that I was addicted, and that this TRAM-A-LIVING was killing me.  

Some complain about the financial ruin this drug has caused.  (I get that)

Some complain about the FOG this drug constantly had them under (it did for me too)

Some complain about the car crashes or near misses they had while on this drug (yup)

Some complain about the seizures and reckless behavior this drug wrot?  (absolutely)

Some complain about the loss of relationships, loss of sex drive, or the loss of COMMON decency this drug has robbed us of. (YES)

But what REALLY convinced me that I HAD to stop this RAT POOH, was the fact that I was sick and tired of constantly suffering WITHDRAWAL  symptoms month after month with this lousy drug.  

When I found this place,I found that angels of mercy had posted their stories here for me to find.  Emily had sprinkled her bread crumbs on the "interwebs" . as in Hansil and Gretell, leading me to this place.  And I figured that if I could do what otehrse before me  had done, I could get what they got...freedom from this physically addictive RAT POOH once and for ever.  And to my way of thinking, gettingthrough up to a week of severe withdrawal wa a whole lot better than suffering nearly the SAME withdrawal month after month after month.

So I began posting...and reading how others got through it...Thomas Recipe...ANGER at what this drug had done to me...developing the mindset that nothing less than full out WAR would begin to put seconds x seconds between me and that last hellish white pill.

Kev (dear Kev) said recently, "it may interest you to know that some of Emilys w/d strategies came from servicemen!!! The advice about fear/anger/depression comes from that source. So does the idea of 'laying in your foxhole' when w/d is 'shelling' you."

I know what it's like to be glued to the computer during early withdrawal...hoping beyond hope that someone who had gotten through this would tell me that it would be alright.  

So (((PFC, David M3, Sandyjo, bodegirl, craneid, Shadtree))) ...yes, it's gonna be alright.  Make no mistake, you won't ever forget your battle with this damned drug.  It was the hardest thing I may have ever done in my life to beat this drug.  There won't be any picnic baskets waiting for you in the foyer and it is entirely possible that nobody around you will fully appreciate that you are now in the battle for your own lives.  But just as surely as it won't be easy, IT WON'T LAST FOREVER EITHER.  You can and will make it through.  

JT50, there is sleep in your future - I promise you.  

It is COMMON to everyone in early withdrawal to want give in, to turn around, to compromise the good work they have begun.  For me, these seeds of doubt began with internal thoughts like these:

But I need to function.

But I need to work

But I need to sleep.

Maybe I could start taking them again, but THIS TIME show more control.

Nobody even knows I stopped taking them.  Why not resume?

I will try this again another time.

If anyone reading this is looking for a reason to resume your tramadol addiction, drop me a note and I can give you dozens of other reasons that I came up with during my first week off the pills.  These thoughts are not unique either.

The fact of the matter is that NONE of us are unique.  Not in the pain we feel withdrawaing, not in our initial cravings, not in our desire to feel LESS UNWELL, nausia, sweats (cold and hot), flu like symptoms, headaches, tingeling and SHOOTING PAINS all throughout our body...YEP YEP YEP AND YEP.   Has anyone ever wondered how CRAZY IT IS that our withdrawal symptomscoming off this "non-addictive analgesic wonder pill" are OH so similar?  

I sometimes wonder if people reading my posts think I am...heartless?

That I don't understand how bad they have it?

That I  lack gentless and human compassion?

The fact of the matter is this - I just don't know if there is a KIND, GENTLE, EASY way to get through the withdrawals.  To make it through the tough moments some of you are facing right now, you simplu must push and resist.  Yes, there are recipes and suppliments you can take to make this temporary journey easier right now.  (I'll leave others here to talk about these things).  Like I said, I am not terribly bright and I disclaim much knowledge of these things.

But this much I know...no amount of baths, recipes, or suppliments will replace the most important element in the battle you now undertake - DETERMINATION...and the belief that a POWER GREATER THAN you can restore you to health and sanity.  

I have said this before, but none of us got here by googling, "my wonderful life" ...or "happy tramadol"...or "love tramadol". I believe that as we sat at our PCs before arriving here, we each realized that this drug had lied to us, stomped on our lives, and taken each us prisioner.  This drug stole our clarity, focus, natural affections, money, families and the core of the people we once were.  Nope, we each got here by googling LOVELY phrases like, "tramadol DETOX"...or "tramadol withdrawal"...and possibly "RAT POOH"!  We EACH knew we were powerless over this drug and we just had to find a way to get off.  At least that was the way it was for me.

Why a Higher Power?  Because my best efforts and thinking had left me powerless to overcome this addiction on my own.  I have said many times that the "higher power" I discovered was the success of people like Emily, Organica, madtram, emergee and other that came before me.  People who told me that if I could just do what they did, the worst would be over in 5-6 days.  But feel free to choose a "higher power' of your own. The fact is that some one, some group, God, or something other than my best thinking would be required (HOPE) and I knew that I wasn't IT!!!

In the moment of clarity for me, my POWERLESSNESS and the HOPE found in a power greater than myself - combined causing me to believe that it just may be possible that I could be restored to health and sanity.

(jumping off the soapbox...ah yes, soft landing)

MsMarie, you said,

" am ASTONISHED by the number of new people on this site every day.  I'd like to try to count how many different post-ers we have had to get an idea of how many people are addicted. Not even to mention that for every person posting here I bet there are 10 who are reading and not posting.  And for each of those ten who are reading but not posting I bet there are 100 who are addicted but not reading.  Meaning for every one of us I bet there are 100 tram addicts with no support and no idea whats going on.  We are all so fortunate to have wandered our way to Emily's threads, but there are dozens(?) of people being prescribed this every day with NO way to expect addiction because they've been assured by their physicians they trust that it is safe."  

uh... Marie, did you say, "100 tram addicts with no support and no idea whats going on?"  100?  How about  MILLIONS at least!

I would say this to every one of the newcomers in recent weeks - you ARE on the cutting edge of getting clean from this awful drug.  I know that the FDA didn't get you here.  Tramadol's adverse nature and addictive properties  are NOT yet fully known and WAY misunderstated.  (Hey, does that sound like something Bush would have said?)  (clears throat to continue)   With doctors still prescribing this demon pill by the bushel without adequate knowledge or warning, you are only the beginning trickle of MILLIONS of people YET coming out.  

You all know what pops up first when you googled "trramadol addiction"!, right?   YUP, more offers for pills online.  

Here is how close I came to not recovering from this drug:  In the moment when I thought I could not take another day on this drug, I started looking for help withdrawing.   Naturally BINGO, I discovered I could order trams online.  Oh my!   I found Emily's site, but still wasn't sure I could do this thing.  So in my typical best thinking, I figured that if it didn't work out, I wanted a back up plan.  A way to suppliment my doctor prescribed pills with the MOTHER LOAD.  

So I filled out the online application to order 180 trams online (just in case)...and then I toggled back to this place.  After reading all of Emily's early journals, I became convinced that I was not the first person to withdraw from this awful drug.  I was feeling a little guilty about ordering 180 pills at that point.  And LOW and behold, there was a message in my inbox from DAMNPILLS.com (or whatever) telling me that (in my tram induced state), I forgot to include the account # from my debit card with the order.  And I was amazed at how long those bastards hounded me to place my order again!  Shocking sollicitations by email and phone.  

Well, I took that as a sign that I had better get my sorry asc back to EmilyPost pronto bean quick.  The rest is history.  So yeah, I understand how fragile my sobriety is.  I get it.  It's a freaking miracle that I made it, but I did.  And if I can do this thing, trust me, so can you.  

With MILLIONS  more people ordering this drug online, I don't know how Emily's forum will hold up when the latter rain of people needing help begin to pour in.  But I believe that each of you are tomorrow's angels of mercy for the people who come after you.  Each of you will have your own story to tell.  Each of you are angels in waiting.  Angels in process.

When I arrived here about 100 days ago, I had a feeling that this place might just save my life.  And by simply doing what other people had done successfully, this average guy, who isn't all that tough, may have just managed to see life renewed and saved...moment by moment.  

By rejecting the temptation of looking past the moment, you just might make it too.  What do you think?  Can you handle a pair of wings?

Courage, Strength and LOVE to you all,

Fred


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by JT50, Mar 07, 2009
Fred,

that was beautiful!  You keep saying you're not the smartest guy, etc., etc. but that was the most eloquent thing I've read in a long time.  Very inspirational.  One doesn't have to be a genius to offer support and give testimony for others to chew on.  They just have to care about their fellow man/woman...and you obviously do.

For me, personally, I had not become an actual addict but was, unknowingly, about to head in that direction because I would take more tram to get over the WD symptoms that I didn't realize I was suffering from.  This forum saved me from going deeper into this thing.  When I stumbled first on drugs.com and then here and read these horror stories; it scared the hell out of me.  I immediately went and flushed everything I had.

When I couldn't find anyone else who was suffering the arm tinglings that I described I thought that perhaps I had overreacted and after 7 days of being up everynight because of this symptom, I went and got a refill.  I asked the doc who originally prescribed the Tram if these symptoms could be realted to the Tram and he said that he did not and that I should see a Neurologist.

I went to a Neurologist.  I told him that I had initially thought that it could be WD symtpoms of going off Tramadol and he said he didn't think so because he would think it would affect more limbs than just my left arm.  It made sense to me.  He sent me for a MRI that, after insuance, cost me $500.

Of course they didn't find anything.  I have since discovered the posts of others who have had limb sensations that keep them from sleeping at night.  I've now been off them, again, for 6 days and hopefully I'll be good in a few day.

Liike I said, what everyone's posts have done in my particuar case is to prevent me from slipping further into the demon's grip.  Thanks to all of you I won't be going any futher into the demon's lair.
--
JT

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by AnonGuy2, Mar 07, 2009
Fred ---

You speak the truth on so many levels it's ridiculous. I remember very well your posts about everything you said, especially the one about ordering some online for the first time when you found Emily's journals and then you got an email saying the order didn't go through. Good times!

I have told everyone about how a couple weeks ago I got 400 tramadol pills delivered to my door and I immediately flushed them. What I didn't tell anyone is about a week ago I got a card in my mailbox saying they tried to deliver 400 more and to come pick them up from the post office. I had placed two orders within a couple weeks of each other because I was sick of running out, too, so that's why there was another shipment. It had taken 2x as long as usual so I didn't even think that other shipment was coming and that's why I never mentioned it.

But here's the good news about that:

In the past, I would have cracked a huge smile and went to pick up my shipment at the post office. Not this time! On the back of the card it says if I didn't pick it up by March 5th that they'd return it to the sender. I could have picked it up and flushed it but in all honesty I am so over this stupid drug that I never even bothered. Today is the 7th so they've already been returned and I am very happy.

I have that post card/note sitting on one of my dressers and nearly everday now I use it as motivation to keep on keepin' on. I no longer suffer horrible withdrawals, being over 3 weeks clean of course, but I am not 100% well. I am very close to being completely normal and I would say I'm at least 90% but that last little bit I am expecting to take another month or two, if not more.

Last night I was feeling so exhausted and tired, and I ran out of tv to watch on my TiVo, that I decided to go to bed early. I hit the hay at 8pm and I slept past 7am for 11 hours! Just like the last couple of nights I think my tossing and turning has been reduced quite a bit. It could very well be the Hyland's Leg Cramps pills I have been taking (for the quinine in them) but who knows. Either way, I am very happy and thankful for it!

Each day in the first two weeks of being clean off this evil drug seem to last forever. Week 3 went by very fast for me and now, looking back on my over 21 days clean, I think overall time has just flew right on by! A lot it for me is probably my work. My job, as I've discussed before, is very important to my company and requires an insane level of multitasking and micromanagement while also juggling some difficult personalities to deal with. It was tough when I went back to work during week 2 but this past week, week 3, has been pretty easy and enjoyable to many extents! I love being able to see how my brain's getting rewired, I am learning how to do many things at the same high level only sober, getting my short term memory back, etc. all on a daily basis!

Stay strong, everyone. Reclaim yourself! Take your life back, your soul back, etc.!

- Dave

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 07, 2009
I appreciate the wisdom of you all so very much. I felt so sure I was alone with this! I am learning something new all the time to help me deal with these feelings and emotions I'm having. Today is not bad, not good, but not bad. The anxiety feels strong, but I am pulling thru on my own. If need be, I will go get some assistance, but thats not really what I'd prefer to do, knowing how so many drs just give you more pills to get over this pill. I have taken the diphenhydramine and ibuprofen combo every 6-8 hrs, and it has helped with my pain and somewhat with the anxiety. The Nurse Practitioner says Benadryl is actually a good drug to assist with anxious feelings. Its not my Ativan, but it'll do. I've been off Ativan for 6 months, and that was no biggie to me. It was easy to go off it, because it was just an "as needed" prescription. Anyway, I would really like having something more effective, but I am not falling apart. Yesterday it seems was just a fluke for me...I cannot imagine today doing what I did yesterday, with the energy and music and dancing about....feels impossible today. But I guess we have our good days, and then our worse days, huh?

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by AnonGuy2, Mar 07, 2009
pfc ---

You're on day 5, right?

By day 5 I had finally started to get sleep at night myself and I was starting to have periods throughout the day where I'd feel great. It would hit out of nowhere but not last more than a couple hours. I went back to work on day 6 and it was more difficult than I imagined but at the same time it was doable. I had day 7 off and worked again on days 8, 9, and 10. Day 8 was really tough at work-- I remember sitting in an Arby's at 10:30am on lunch, looking out their window at the traffic and having thoughts as close to suicide as possible. I was an anxiety/depression-filled wreck at times like that but I'd still have those 1-2 hour periods of feeling super. Days 8 and 9 were more of the same and, being the weekend, the days dragged on horribly.

I was still getting really tired early at night and I was still stuck in this "can't sleep past 5am" stage at that point on days 5-9. I remember being really annoyed by that but I found out it's normal and it did pass after those 4 nights or so.

Days 14-21, or week 3, which has led me to where I am today, I feel pretty darn good most of the day and feel like more and more control is coming back in my life. My posts this past week have been very upbeat and positive for the most part and that's been a very true representation of how I've felt. During this past week those periods of feeling a lot of anxiety and/or depression don't hit as often nor last long at all. Everything in my life is falling back into place and I can see myself getting closer to 100% normal mentally, physically, and emotionally each day!

Anyway, I typed all this just to help you to maybe cope and/or know a little of what you could expect in your next 14-16 days. Everyone's different, sure, but most everything of what I went through is normal from overcoming a tramadol addiction. I am sure you already knew all this from reading tons of posts here but if you're like me, I enjoyed reassurances in my first week of recovery intensely!

I've still got to take a shower, eat lunch, and go in to work so I'd better get off now. I normally work early on Saturday but today's a little different for various reasons. Needless to say, it'll be interesting to work until 10pm tonight (something I haven't done in many months now). I actually look forward to it!

- Dave
:D

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by bodegirl, Mar 07, 2009
Dave,
Your post has really brightened my day.  I am on day 7 and still feel unbearably bad and was starting to wonder when or if ever I will feel "normal" again. I appreciate the the breakdown of how your days and weeks have been.  I'm very happy for you that you've made it so far-congratulations! I can't wait to be at that place in my life.  Thank you for the hope.  
bodegirl

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by KingdomWarrior, Mar 07, 2009
Dad has been on Tram for over 2 years.  Just 6 a day.  He has tried to quit them cold turkey several times - the drs say it is just fine and that there is no addictiveness in them.  

Finally he had one dr say that they can be very addictive, one of the same drs that said no way last year.  He has now seen withdrawls from it.  But the only thing that dr did, was give him more and a higher dose.

But dad is feeling suicidal, depressed, angry, anxious, fidgety, etc.  I wnat that to be over with.  I have an 8 month little boy in the house with dad.  I want dad to be a part of his life, but it is getting very difficult with his attitude.  

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by craneid, Mar 07, 2009
KingdomWarrior...
Does your Dad want to quit this drug...if he does you should show him our posts and maybe offer to help him taper. I sure wish I could have done that...but I didn't have the self control. I would cut back a pill or two and on the fourth day I was taking double. I just gave up...and continued to put it off until tomorrow or the next week. Now that I am 7 days clean I am understanding how much I was putting off...Sure the house work was done but I couldn't get off my *** and look for a job or even open a bill...I was living my life in a Fog of whatever. As long as I had my meds for the day it didn't matter what would come of tomorrow. I feel so much better...still can't sleep. I have so much energy at night and I am dragging *** during the day. I hate that part of these WDs. The cravings are starting to lighten up a bit...but not much.

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by craneid, Mar 07, 2009
Are any of you getting a lot of chest pain...It has been getting worse since I started my detox. It hurts to take a deep breath. Why am I getting this...is this related? Do I need to get it checked out?

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by Shadetree, Mar 07, 2009
Hello everyone,
Alot of insightful posts! I have only taken two today and I am starting to feel like myself again. Pretty normal in all aspects. Feels great! I havent really experienced and w/d symptoms at all besides the other night with the flu scare...I am staring to play around with the idea of stopping my taper and just quiting.In the morning I dont even feel like I "need" it but I take it just to make sure. So I think if I dont just quit, I will put it off an hour or two each day. Eventually I will be on the other side :) with most of you.

craneid ~ I havent ever experienced chest pain while getting off the tram, I did however have it when I would take a large dose when I was on it...Scary! So I would almost say get it checked out, better safe than sorry.

Well just stopped by to say hi and to pat myself on the back a bit...) I am very proud of myself for making it this far. And as you all know your the only ones I can tell.)

Talk to you soon....

Shade

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by craneid, Mar 07, 2009
Hey Shade...thanks for the insight...Yeah it is getting worse...I'm going in. I'll let you know what they say.

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by beck01, Mar 08, 2009
Hi, I havent posted in a long time. I found this site when i decided to quit the trams and im very glad i  did. I have been off trams for 13 days now and i am so happy (i went cold turkey) after tapering down quite quickly. I can understand how many of you are feeling with young children. I have 2 boys aged 7 and 4 and it is really terrible feeling that way and trying to be a mum and look after the house. I didnt sleep for the first6 days and then on day 7 i slept and it was pretty much ok since then except a bad night last night, but i can handle one night it was just the week of no sleep that i couldnt take. Also the other thing i suffered badly with is a feeling of depression. It was mostly come at dinner time(bout 6ish) and would last pretty much all evening. Dont know why it happened at the same time every night. Has anyone else experienced that? I have so much energy back now. I never thought i would have the energy to do anything without feeling the high from tramadol, but if anything i have more energy now then i ever did on tram. The feelings of depression pretty much went on day7. I dont take any other medication at all (tram was the only drug i have ever taken) and so in the first few days when i was shivering and then sweating and aching all over i took some cold and flu tablets which i thimk may have helped me a bit (it might have all been in my head though) The other thing i suffered with was dizzyness it was horrible and the brain zaps which have both gone now. Thankgod!!!
Just want to say i think you are all so brave  and i know excatly what you are going through and if you have any questions at all i will be happy to answer. Also wanted to say thanks to fred, suzi and shadtree for your warm words when i was at the beginning of this horrible time in my life. I do really appreciate it.
Keep strong everyone and good luck  

Beck01

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by DavidM3, Mar 08, 2009
Today im starting to taper from 1 50mg pill to half a pill. I plan on sticking with this for about a week maybe less. Then i'll either taper to 1/4 pill or totally stop. I want to stop now so i can hurry up and get this poison out of my system but a few hours after waking I start to count down the minutes when I can take my "fix". I try to go as long as I can but I start getting that anxious "i cant wait any longer feeling" and just give in. That feeling is going to be so hard to  overcome when im done tapering off this so-called medication. Sometimes I feel as though im just giving myself an excuse to keep taking the tramadol by doing the taper instead of just quitting.  

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by Organica, Mar 08, 2009
DavidM3, if you are really concerned, go to 3/4 of a pill for a couple of days.  Any amount of reduction is better than no reduction.  I found that tapering the last bit I did gently, then jumped off at 25mg, but going to 1/4 is fine too.
One thing I have learnt from this is that everyone is different.  Some really respond to CT and just want it over and done with, and I admire them.  Some taper really slowly, and I admire them too... hell, I admire anyone who does this!  It isn't easy but IT IS SOOO WORTH IT!

Remember, though, Tramadol is like our old thought patterns and habits (in fact I think there a BIG parallels here).. it really really doesn't want to go.  If you can remember that when the anxiety hits.. "It isn't me, it's the drug."  And it is sneaky and very persuasive.  Don't believe it.. you will feel much much better when the last vestiges of this insidious thing are out of your system.

You are doing brilliantly!

All strength to you,

Sue

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 08, 2009
Today, I went to the ER. I told the admit nurse what was going on, Tramadol withdrawal, and she tells me "its non narcotic", like I was lying. BUT, then an amazing thing happened! The PA who was assigned to me is an addiction specialist!! THANK YOU GOD!! She tells me, YES, it IS narcotic, drs don't know what they're talking about when they say "non narcotic", that it very much IS a narcotic, and now I am probably having the worst of it, and she couldn't detox me in the ER, but she would absolutely give me some things to help me get thru. She said 3 or 4 more days, the worst will be over. She has detoxed hundreds of people off of Tramadol. I think God put the right doctor/practitioner in my path today. I cried, telling her she was the first person who has been straight with me, who didn't make me feel crazy for saying tramadol is the reason I'm feeling like this. She told me "no, you're not crazy, it is tramadol". And she prescribed Bentyl for the cramps and upset stomach, Zofran for the nausea and vomiting, and Clonidine to help ease the anxiety. I am still fighting but I have some help now! :-) Just took the first doses, I'll post more when I see how they work.

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by HOPEreturns, Mar 08, 2009
Hello!

I have realized something.  I realized that I was taking this pill to make me "spunkier" (which soon stopped!).  I was using this to get rid of worries, boredom, etc.  I am realizing that it is okay to have days when I am a little bored. (I pick up crossword, sudoku, read a book).... this has helped me tremendously.  You see, the boredom I am talking about is not because I have nothing to do.... Its boredom with me... my thoughts, etc.  I am bored with MYSELF. (make sense?)  

There was a time that I only wanted to feel GOOD ALL OF THE TIME!  Well, in order for me to truly enjoy feeling good, I have to experience bad days now and then.  I have figured out that this is the only way I will appreciate my good days.od days.  I was finding that when I supposedly felt "good" all of the time, I took it for granted and wanted to feel even better if I could, hence 'popping pills".  

I look back and remember all of the times that I felt so foggy.... what must have people thought?

I look back and remember those times when my short term memory was depleted!  I must have been sooooo annoying!  

I look back and remember how hyper I could get while on these pills.  God, people must have gotten sick of me!

I am slowly getting at a place in my life where I feel comfortable with me.   Getting comfortable with ME has been a life long journey!  Doesnt bother me if others arent perfect..... people are only human..... BUT ME.... another story.  I have always felt that there is no room for me to make mistakes.  I still struggle, but am consciously making an effort to talk with myself. When something has been bothering me, I ask myself.... What is the worse that can happen with the situation.  Most of the time I come up with the simple fact that I am worried about what others think of me.  Then I tell myself, well, if this is what the particular person at the times thinks, then its not the end of the world.  Like I said, I still struggle, but I'm making progress.

Not sure if this makes sense to anyone, but it was something that came to me within the last two weeks.  Guess my brain is maybe waking back up!  

Take care everyone!  Oh, EMILY, I hope you are having better days, honey!!

Love to all, have a wonderful week!!!
Hope

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 08, 2009
Yes, it makes sense...perfect sense. I am still foggy, but I am hopeful for the first time! Hopefully these meds help me thru the roughest patch. I found the right person today, and I'm still thanking God for her!! We talked and she understood, and confirmed what I already knew!! It felt sooo good to talk to a physician's assistant with EXPERIENCE treating tramadol withdrawal! A wonderful thng for me! And a first!

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by craneid, Mar 08, 2009
pfc..the clonidine will help A LOT!!!
Be sure not to take a whole pill if you have anything do to because it will make you VERY tired. Don't double up on this one either...not safe. Zofran works wonders as well...it sounds like your PA knows what she is talking about. That must have been a relief.
How many days has it been for you now?
Today is day 8 for me....and I haven't felt this good in forever. Still kind of spaced out...but most of my energy is back. Took some tylenol PM last night and had a colonic earlier....that seemed to help a ton.



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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 08, 2009
This is the fifth night I think, fourth day overall. She is an addiction medicine specialist, so that helps. They have made me drowsy. In fact, I just got off the couch from a little 40 minutes nap. A little groggy, hard to tell from which one, maybe the combo. But I can tell its gonna help me get thru. The Bentyl (dicyclomine) has really been a miracle on my stomach.

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 09, 2009
I slept, never woke up covered in sweat!! I feel better than any morning, post tramadol, yet!! Day 6 I believe. Not really keeping close track, I just know I am off of it. How's everyone else feeling?

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by Shadetree, Mar 09, 2009
Hello Everyone...

I am down to 2 a day... Feels great, starting to feel like the old me again.. Crying, laughing, my good ol emotional self.)
Im not experiencing any sleep trouble...(thank God) like I expected. I havent really had any w/d's since in the begining of my taper...except the stomach trouble thing a couple nights ago.  At first I can relate to what DavidM3 was saying, I thought I was just using the taper for an excuse to keep taking it. But that was in the begining, and it is over now. I really really really want off! I have NO desire to keep taking it or prolonging my taper. I am considering stoping completely this fri. That way I will have the weekend plus mon if i need it to recover. But Im not sure that it will be as bad as I am anticipating. The two I take in the morning really has no physical effect on me. But I know My brain is using it to slowly return to normal. I am very suprised I havent experienced any anxiety/depression. But I  am on the right path and it feels so awsome!

Cranied~ What did you find out about your chest pains? Did you go get it checked out?

Hope~ I can really relate to your last post. I felt the exacte same way.But like you said it stops those good feelings are temporary. And you said it exaclty how I felt I was bored with my self. Bored with the same old thoughts and feelings! But once you get your self into a difficult spot like I have and cant just get out without tapering....You realize how good you had it and that getting yourself into this mess was one of the stupidest things you could of ever done! I do anyway...

pfc~ That is really awsome you found help and it was an addiction specialist! Your almost through the toughest times...congrats! Your doing great.)

Gotta go, talk to everyone soon...

~ Shade

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by kevzx81, Mar 09, 2009
PFC- Congrats on a good nights it makes everything else so much more do-able. Glad youre feeling confident too.
This is day 50ish for me and I still get occasional symptoms.(mild anxiety on waking yesterday)
Be sure to watch out for symptoms returning though cos this can happen and can really dent morale when you think theyve passed. But week 1 is almost over for you now, thats one BIG victory!!


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by kevzx81, Mar 09, 2009
Hope- I can so relate to the boredom stuff. I can laugh about it now but I remember thinking ' no wonder I'm depressed, Im such a bore to live with,same depressing thoughts,obssessed by my own condition and NO FUN AT ALL!'.
Its a powerful realization to have,and though it might not be flattering to the ego it does wonders for the spirit.
WELL DONE!!! (but with MUCH bigger fonts!!)


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by Organica, Mar 10, 2009
You know the thing that intrigues me is that during the 6 years I was on the stuff, I became more and more aquisitive.. I just had to have things!  I know quite a few of us have commented on it, but it is such a bizarre thing!
I now look back and think, OMG, all that money I spent....

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by kes68, Mar 10, 2009
Hi all,

I can totally relate to the boredom thing - it got to the point where I just wanted each day to end, I was not looking forward to anything - I was just flat.  After a while I couldn't get that warm high - didn't matter how much I took.  I just ended up in a fog all the time, with no real purpose.
Organica - you mentioned the need to have things - I was the same way - and it makes sense - I was looking for that jolt, something to feel good about, excited about.  The problem was I never had the energy to enjoy anything.  I bought this camera I had to have - it would be great, I would get out, go for walks take pictures - it would become a fun hobby.  Well the darn thing is still in the box.  Once the initial excitement wore off - I didn't have the energy to set it up, figure it out.
I am still maintaining my slow taper - and while my energy level is terrible, the deep, dark depression has not surfaced.  That was the symptom that scared me the most when I have tried to quit in the past.  I am hoping to avoid the worst of the physical symptoms, and be able to continue to function - but it was the wanting to jump infront of the bus thing that I am trying to avoid.
I still have a ways to go - and like some of you others who are going the taper route mentioned, I have struggled with the idea that it is just a form of denial, a way to keep using.  But in all honest - it doesn't feel that way - I want out of this life style - I feel like Pavlov's dog whenever I see a fed ex truck.  I know it is going to become more difficult, the lower my dose is - but hopefully  I will still be steadfast in my desire to have control of my life back - the idea of starting to increase the amount makes me feel almost sick - I just can't continue to have one day just fade into the next.

Hang in there everyone - we are the lucky ones who found this site.  Think of others who have no clue what they are going through, and what tram is capable of doing.  

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 10, 2009
Funny you say that about the FedEX truck. One passed my house yesterday, and I got that tingle of excitement I'd get when my delivery was due. I hate that feeling. On the plus side, don't know if its too soon or not, but its helping me. I got a puppy, a gorgeous 10 wk old Golden Retriever named Biscuit. I've been smiling ever since! He's a doll. Keeps me busy, along with my boys of course! The cocktail of Clonidine, Zofran, and dicyclomine have me almost feeling human again. So much better than going cold turkey all alone. Day 7, I think. Like I said, I'm not actually counting. Just basically going day by day, not thinking of yesterday, not thinking of tomorrow, just right now. ANd right now, I'm good! :-)

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by AnonGuy2, Mar 10, 2009
Hey there, everyone!

It's been a few days for me since I posted.

I totally agree with you guys on the boredom thing, too. I think that's why most days I get home after work I thinnk to myself, "Work is a great distraction in my life right now." Don't get me wrong, my job is full to the brim of stress, deadlines, and complicated personalities. It is very far from being all fun and games, but I find enjoyment sometimes.

Organica ---

How funny you talk about getting things. I was the same way! I went through a phase of collecting 1,000's of dvds a few years ago and on my days off work I was always surfing the net looking to blow some cash on things. I used to be able to save money no problem but the last number of years I can't save more than a small sum before I am looking to spend it. Then again, a big part of me wants to take advantage of the fact that I can do that so long as I am single and have no kids. :)

pfc ---

Ah yes, I am sure we can all relate to that special delivery feeling inside our bodies when we're getting another shipment. Or, should I say, when we WERE getting another shipment!? lol


Sincerely,
Dave

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by Shadetree, Mar 10, 2009
Hello all...

Organica, I can  also relate. Although until now I didnt realize it was connected. I have always been good about saving money. But I have seemed to go through my whole savings on spur of the moment shopping sprees, airline tickets, clothes you name it. It is pretty out of character for me. Lol, how crazy the two are related... Funny how much we all have in common. I am soo glad I found this site. Thank you Emily, I cant say that enough! Like Kes said think of the people who dont no what is going on and think there is no relation to what they are going through because the dr.s say it not addictive...I find so much comfort every time I log on. So many new revelations...Thanks guys!

TTYS,
Shade

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by Tommyboy1979, Mar 10, 2009
Hey Everyone -

Its been a while since Ive posted....   Actually I wrote a few paragraphs a few nights ago and as I was about to post it my computer jumped back to the previous page and I lost everything!!!  I didnt have the time and energy to rewrite it.  Hate when that happens!!!

I was reading the recent posts and I can understand the want to buy things.  I used to love to go to the stores just to walk around and look at what I could possibly buy,  Luckily my addiction to Tram was eating up close to $350 a month so it wasnt really allowing me to make big purchases!!  Sadly I was never one to think savings first so its hard for me to know how much spending was Tram related or just my irresponsibillity!  For now lets blame it on the Tram. :)

Thats funny what everyone is saying about the FedEx Truck.  I dont have that same Pavlovs dog response with the Truck but every time I see a Fedex envelope I immediatly think Tram.  Ill walk by someone in the office unzipping a FedEx enevelope and Im like "So I see that your order of Tramadol has arrived, were you excited??!!" and they are like "What?!?!, No this is the Legal paperwork I have been waiting for from our attorneys, What are you talking about!!"  

Ok well not really but Im sure you understand.   Dave, i can completely understand the "when you WERE going to get one.  it seemed like it didnt matter until your supply was low.  Then you were counting the days vs pills and hoping the fedex shipment has the address right, etc etc.  Not a way to live.  I remember thinking... will I ever be able to travel again??   How will i be able to accumulate enough pills to allow for a long trip. I went to Europe 2 year ago for 10 days and luckily my number of pills i was taking a day was low enough that I could make the trip but just barely.  Thinking of how much you can lose and never experience because youre a slave to a drug....   very scary.

The last couple posts Ive read were about Tapering and this is the method i chose as well.  I think for me that it could be considered an excuse to continue taking it but only because i feared stopping all together.  There were a couple time that i tried to stop and a few times where my shipment was late and I knew how horrible it was that the thought of willing going into that again was tough.  For me Im glad that I tapered.   It was a long taper (2.5 months) and at times I thought geez, Cold Turkey would be so much faster but I couldnt take the time off to deal with the pain so i continued the Taper and it was so much easier.  

Its now Day 11 of soberity and the only medcine i have taken is tylenol/excedrine and RLS Med at night.  So far I have been feeling good during the day.  W/D were mild and now I feel pretty good through out the whole day.  At night though my feet start feeling really sensitive, like all my nerves are really alive and aching, which make me want to move them a lot until i can find a comfortable position for them, which of course there isnt any.   I went out and bought Hylands Restful legs and as many of you have reported i dont really notice a difference.  Im taking twice the reccommended dosage and it helps maybe slightly. (It was on sale at Walgreens  2 for $10 though if you need some.)  I did try something else though the last two nights which I think had helped drastically for my condition.  Since my feet were feeling ultra sensitive to everything (cold sheets, overhead fan, etc) i put on socks right before I was ready to go to sleep.  This helped numb the sensitivity for a bit until I could fall asleep.  The last two nights Ive been able to fall asleep within 10 mins or so of turning off the lights.  Im still waking up at 5-6 am though WIDE AWAKE and unable to get back to sleep most the time.  Im hoping that changes soon but if that is the worst of it I consider myself Lucky.   The last 2 nighst though with the socks are the first 2 nights that I have fallen asleep without to much trouble.  

On a completely different note, Im going to my first PA (Pills Anonyamous)meeting tonight.  A lot of what I read on here, people say that this is a key way to continue a clean life so Im going to give it a try.  I think the main reason people go are the same reason we are all on here... and that is for support.  The tough part is done.  Ive made the decision to remove the posion from my body and for 11 wonderful days now Ive been posion free!!  Now its just time to work on making sure I never go back to it.  

Again thanks for all your support!!  
Tommyboy


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by kes68, Mar 10, 2009
You sound great Tommyboy - and I think you are now taking the next step in maintaining what you have worked so hard for.  Kicking the addiction is just the start of the battle.
Good luck at the meeting - let us know how it goes!

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by KC67, Mar 10, 2009
Day 30 – Cold turkey – March 10, 2009

Day 30.  Gosh, I remember posting back in early February (around my Day 3 or 4) about being envious of all of ya’ll that were already on Day 30 or above.  Well here I am.  Still alive and well and Tram-FREE.

I wish I could say I was back to 100% normal, but I’m not there yet.  Still fighting the depression & anxiety (sometimes in the middle of the night) and still fighting the insomnia and the overall energy-zap.  Don’t get me wrong – these have improved a LOT since Days 1-7, but I’m still not 100% yet.  

I went back and re-read Emily’s Day 30 journal and she wasn’t feeling 100% yet either.  

It’s hard because I am tired.  Tired of fighting this.  I just want to feel normal again.

But I won’t take a Tram.  I’ve come too far to go back now and I can see a bright, silver lining in the clouds.  Besides, if I took one, what would I gain?  Ummmm geez…I could get my trama-bot personality back – the one that didn’t care about anyone but myself – I could get the restless, annoying, hyper, feeling back that I THOUGHT was me being “outgoing” – or I could have a seizure (as many of you have already experienced) and end up in worse pain than I started taking the Trams for in the 1st place!  Nope.  Not worth it.

So don’t give up – there are too many people who are 70+ days clean and not ONE of them has said that it wasn’t worth the fight!

Sincerely with hope and love,
KC


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by DavidM3, Mar 10, 2009
Today ive decided to jump off. I was going to taper for a few more days but I cant wait that long I want to be rid of this ASAP.  Usuallly I cant make it past 3p.m. without wanting to pull out my hair because I cant wait for my fix but its after 7 and no pill yet. Once I make up my mind about something I usually stick with it. Thats how I quit maryjane. That was alot easier to quit compared to tramacrap considering I was doing it practically everyday for 10 years vs only 2 months on the pills. I just hope to god I dont get all the withdrawals again like when I tapered from 8 pills a day down to 2 pills a day. I dont know if I could go thru all that again. I also hope my heart dosent go into SVT either. Its not fun when your heart is beating 170 times a minute! Anyway im just going to concentrate on making it thru the day.

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by AnonGuy2, Mar 10, 2009
KC ---

You are right on everything! You are about 3-4 days ahead of me and I've always considered us in the same boat. I feel you 100% on everything you said in that last post!


David ---

Congrats! I hope you don't go through the bad withdrawals too but for your sake I'd go ahead and plan on it. You know the saying, of course: Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. Yeah, yeah, we all know that!


Me ---

I am still hanging in there, just like KC. Obviously I am not 100% normal again yet, but I am definitely around 90%. The same lingering effects are what's still annoying me at times: Sore lower back, restlessness of my body (especially at night), and the occassional short period of feeling a little anxiety/depression but absolutely nothing like what we've all went through in week 1. Oh, and the sneezing. What's funny is every bad withdrawal effect has either gone away or been diminishing except the sneezing-- It's only gotten worse!

To be honest, I think a lot of it is seasonal allergies for me, though. I have been an allergy sufferer for the last 1/2 of my life and the last 5 years or so it's just been during the spring and fall. Since spring is officially here in 10 days, that's likely exaggerating my bouts of sneezing.

I have noticed that since quitting tram 4 weeks ago, my facial hair is really growing faster. It's growing at least 300-400% faster! It really is rather odd, but oh well.

Tomorrow is my "office" or "desk" day at work so I've got to hit the hay early tonight. I still have a few things I've got to do before I go to bed so I'll sign off for now.

Stay strong, everyone!

- Dave
:D

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by madtram, Mar 10, 2009
Hello old friends & welcome to all the new fellow travelers. I've been missing your companionship & wise words but I had to travel to support my sister through rehab, [from alcohol, after another major accident] & haven't had internet access.

Dear Emily, taking on another large battle, you have definitely earned your lifetime platinum membership of warriors are us.

I'm in the 8th month of my journey away from the tramadol mirage & to those just setting out, please be assured that reality with all its blood, guts & glory has so much more to offer than the seductive illusion which first wraps you in gentle mist but inevitably turns to dark choking fog.

Although I boarded the T train for legitimate pain control reasons, as others have identified, the side effect of not feeling those messy human emotions suited me mightily & for at least a few years, I was one happy tramabot not just holding down big jobs but getting promoted.  Thankfully the train derailed, (I couldn't sleep without increasing my dose),because outside the tunnel was a whole world that was rapidly crumbling away from neglect.

I so related to the idea of Matt's monkey still chattering away after his death, since I started to feel again, my monkey has been behaving badly too.

I am very impressed with the progress of some of you in early withdrawal, I was a CTer &  many days were a complete washout. If you are still struggling after 3 weeks or 3 months, I can confidently tell you that none of your physical or mental condition is permanent.  Tramadol somehow messed up my hypothalmic function resulting in chronic fatigue which lasted for months.  Neither my doctors or I believed that a non-scheduled substance could cause such havoc, but guess what.  So particularly if you have been under the influence for a number of years, just give your brain circuits some time to rewire & don't believe everything you think.

Back to copping it sweet for me, aka dealing with the hard tasks & decisions I so very cheerfully ignored while the T train chugged on.

So pleased to be introduced to all of you, these exchanges are my main therapy, so thank you.

Michelle

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by Mollerom, Mar 10, 2009
Unanimous then…

This pharmaceutical trash kills!!!!!

Greedily saps the very lives it’s meant to aid and crudely heaves us all aside. I wonder how it is that these architects of so much misery can continue to conjure ever more insidious ways of heaping emotional and physical despair on their fellow man.

Ya I know – it’s all about the Benjamins!
So it is what it is, I suppose.

I’m a fellow Tram Tripper who cannot, for the life of me, figure out HOW IN THE HELL DID I GET HERE!?!?!?!

Get 120 tabs – gone in a few days…
Get 120 tabs – gone in a few days…
Begin again. Continue cycles until pass out.
Lovely isn’t it?

I couldn’t tell what was the worst, the unrelenting brain “zaps” or the crawling skin. No wait… the leg aches or the sweats. Well, the headaches, body aches? TREMORS!! Almost forgot those too. Oh yeah, zero energy…

Anyway, I don’t suppose being on SSRI’s while gorging the damn Trams was any help.

Sweet Jeff (The God of Biscuits)!! The F’ing “zaps” were making me truly consider swallowing a shotgun barrel. My serotonin levels had been so bum rushed for so long it’s a miracle to have finally leveled back out. So a pinch of unsolicited advice – If you happen to be on SSRI’s and on a steady diet of Tramos – COLD TURKEY IS TREACHEROUS!!! But not impossible : )

Enough self-miserizationmentalismnessblahblah…

10 DAYS!!

Life has returned! Fog is lifting. Rediscovering my children, wife, friends, and much more.

Our lives come complete (with everything you see here) and doesn’t really require pharmaceuticals. Granted, there are legitimate needs for them. But not me. Not anymore.

I applaud you all!! This is a life changing event. There is no greater thing we can do for ourselves than to add years onto our lives. And with the added time, give it to those we love. No?

When the crushing weight of the Quit got on top of me I kept one image in mind:

I’m standing behind my own open casket - all decked out in a brand new Armani suit, tucked comfortably away in my $9000 container. I can see my wife and children sitting in the front row as some preacher is boorishly reading off my “Qualifications for Sainthood”.

I wish I could say something to them. Give them SOME reason why I just couldn’t quit the drugs. Anything to easy their pain!

Then my son. My only son, stands up – walks over to where I’m laying and tries to wake me up.

“Daddy wake up now! DADDY GET UP!”

I cried my eyes out the first few days haunted with those kinds of thoughts. But it worked for me. As morbid and depressing as it seems, it was my motivation.

Stick with it folks. It’s painful and more than we think we can bear at times. But it’s better than not bearing anything. I’m not a religious person. I don’t know what happens after, but what if it’s NOTHING? I often wanted it to end it all myself, but had to ask the question:

If I “free” myself will I know it? Will I be able to sense the relief? Cherish the freedom?
I opt for the now. Go through Hell now to get to Heaven now.

Right. Now that I have creeped everyone out, I’ll say good night.

Thanks for the forum and the chance to bear my soul.

I wish us all providence in this undertaking and offer my best wishes.

Dano


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by FinallyFred, Mar 11, 2009
Michelle, It's really great to hear from you again.  Your sister was so fortunate to have you to help her rehab after her accident.  I'll bet you were feeling like time to get on home a the end tho.  What a saint!  

And thank you for validating that recovery takes "weeks and weeks".  I was kicking butt at work today and it occurred to me that I wouldn't have been of such a fervant and steady mind even 30 or 60 days ago.  As amazing as it seems, this damn tram has extremely long term implications. ONE DAY THE FULL TRUTH ABOUT TRAM WILL BE KNOWN.   In the meantime, we must eek out our own truth, which truth is possible thanks to Em and others like you Michelle.  And total freedom WILL take place as we keep putting another moment between where we are today and our last pill.

Your description of the insidious "take over" number this drug does on us was nicely put, (the) "seductive illusion which first wraps you in gentle mist but inevitably turns to dark choking fog".  Yup, dark chokng fog is a good description.

David,  good luck on your grand experiment.  Stay in touch and let us know how you are doing, OK?   No, let's hope your heart doesn't start beating at 170 beats/minute.  

KC, Ah, yes, the ardent student of this thing.  Wise of you to re-read old EM journal entries.  I remember myself complaining about residual symptoms 60 days out and I took comfort in what others here told me then, similar to what Michelle told us here today, "none of your physical or mental condition is permanent."  Got it...for now.  

It's still incredible to me how powerful this drug is.  And can someone please tell me what trams do to our brain receptors to effectively ZONE us out all those years?  I suppose it makes sense that a drug we took for so long with seeming impunity, would have raised HAVOC with us during the time we begged the damn tram to damage those receptors and effectively zone us out. I figure I am still paying the piper - tram.    But I am determined that this drug which I once STRONGLY sought/desired to knock out my brain receptors, will no more have it's way with me.  Moment by moment as my body/mind rebuilds.  Sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly.  Going back to this rat drug is not an option for me.  I gotta give myself a chance now to rebuild.  At my age, brain cells are a precious thing to waste.

Here's a hypothetical question I'll throw out there.  Does anyone believe that tramadol is an acceptable drug for ANYONE to be taking?  I'll try not to prejudice your answers before you share them.  I know that for myself and (apparently for most of ) you this nasty drug did us in.  For myself, I am certain that my addictive personality played SOME part in finding myself carved up by trams over 6 years.  But is it a fact of chemistry that EVERYONE builds up tolerance to this drug over time? ..such that regardless of a person's "nature" the drug will require more and more over time to make us freel less unwell?  And when that happens, will every user of trams eventually experience withdrawal symptoms unless they UP the dose?  Or are there people who would be immune from the tolerance/withdrawl trap most of us  found ourselves in over time?  Does tramadol represent a valid drug for anyone?  Cause...um...I have a close friend who claims she is immune from the pain we all have experienced.  That this drug is working for her.  Hmmmmm...

Dano,  Welcome to the world of getting off the terrible tramadol train.  Congratualtions of 10 days of freedom.  That vision you described "in death" sounds like a powerful motivator to stop.  For me, the vision was seeing myself NEVER having to worry a single day again about counting pills or picking up prescriptions or going through withdrawal at the end of every RX cycle.

Tommyboy, you talked about this too, when you described your trip to Europe.  Its blows when our entire lives are wound up around getting these pills to feed our addictions.Yup, I was a slave to these pills too.  

Try to accumulate pills?  Right.  That works, huh?  Before our last vacation in August/September, I actually got the calender out more than six months before our trip and had to schedule things according to my RX cycle.  I was managing it you see.  My life was manageable I thought.  WRONG!  And if/when I have EVER left home on vacation, I would find myself left with 2 pills a day for the last few days of nearly every vacation I have taken in the last six years.  For a body used to 8/day, my forced, drastic experiments with draftic tapers sent me into "the flu" towards the end of nearly every vacation I have had while on trams.  One would think our energies would be focused on finding a nice beach...or a place to eat...but instead, it was always all about the trams for me.  How SAD is that?

So yeah, I kinda knew what I would be up against when I took the plunge after Thanksgiving.  Having a vision helps.  Whether it is picturing oneself with all that extra cash we spent on our drug...or seeing our family standing over our grave(Dano) ...or seeing oneself NEVER having to worry a single day again about counting pills or picking up prescriptions or going through withdrawal at the end of every RX cycle...A VISION HELPS.

Kes, personally, I am with you, i.e., "kicking these pills is only the start of the battle".    I am a real addict/alcoholic, so for me, not continuing with either this forum or AA/NA/PA isn't an option.  I need to be around others like me on an ongoing basis to remind me of what it was like for me, what happened and to listen to others tell me what is working for them to remain happy, joyous and free.  I need people who will call me on my defective thinking.

Feel free to chime in again, but I may not be convinced that a forum of after care is REQUIRED for everyone who makes it through early withdrawal.  I'm pretty good with the questions, but not so good with the answers.  Is it likely that somone who isn't an addict, who has been on trams for several years, who makes it through early withdrawal, will ever be tempted to take this drug again?  

I recall that in the 100 days or so that I have been posting here, more than one person has asked, 'but what do I do when the cravings return?"  And unfortunately, more than one peson here who posted that question, who has BEEN free, has "slipped" back into tram use.  Something more justMAY have been required.  Maybe AA/NA/PA would have been called for, maybe keeping tight with the members here would have worked, or  maybe just eating more blueberry pancakes would have done the trick.   Something tho.

I know this damn tram is highly addictive - in a physical way.  But are all persons who get addicted-  ADDICTS?  I think that it is fair to say that not everyone who takes this drug is an addict.  We build up a tolerance and the drug catches us one and the same.  Possibly these "normal" x-tramadol takers will be fine as soon as they withdraw and pass go.  I'd like to hope so.  

But if I am 40 days out from my last pill and I am feeling cravings, for god sake, I really believe that I better do something besides worrying about caving in.    Eat more blueberry pancakes or something  Your thoughts?

Courage Strength and Love...Fred


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by ty1987, Mar 11, 2009
about 6 months ago i was prescribed tramadol for back pain. after taking it for the first time, i loved it. perhaps the main reason i liked it was because it made me happy. it turned me into a happier, more confident person. normally i am a very shy, introverted person...this is mainly because i stutter. i avoid interacting with people whenever possible. however, when im taking the tramadol, i feel confident enough to converse with people like a normal person. it even reduces the severity of my stuttering.

last month i was feeling really down and depressed. i knew if i could get my hands on some tramadol i would be happier. so i went online and ordered 90 pills. those were gone in about 4 weeeks, so i ordered 180 more this last week. i am scared to death that ill become addicted and these pills will end up running my life. at the same time, they make me happy...i just want to be happy, and these pills are the only thing that i know can make me happy. i like the confidence they give me..i like feeling like i can talk to people without embarassing myself because i stutter. ive been taking about 6-8 pills daily now for the last month, and im at the point where i feel i should stop, but dont know if i want to stop. i dont know what to do. any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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by kevzx81, Mar 11, 2009
Fred- Hi there, re addicts; We are all addicts of something, to some degree I think. And its all to control our feelings.
Ive never been addicted to anything life threatening myself but I have fought against negative impulses and have often thought that the "something more" I would like most is vigilance. How to STAY awake. Distractions,stress,excitement,
fear,desire.....all can lead us off course. we are surrounded;beseiged. Yet if you repeat the phrase " I must stay awake" it will eventually send you to sleep. So I believe this problem to be a general one and not only relevant to 'addicts'.
I have a great wariness/distrust of labels and 'addict' is a dangerous label. Its totally important to take responsibility for an addiction, but lets not forget there are many 'respectable' addictions which would produce many of the same emotional and psychological responses if w/d took place. People with shopping/food/gambling addictions commonly report anxiety and depression in therapy. We can be addicted to any behaviour as long as it gives the pay-off we're looking for.And we can fall back into addiction out of habit alone too. WE FORGET, for maybe just a few vital seconds WHAT the mission statement is. To forget is sooooo easy.
So how to proceed...thats a tough one Fred.
In theory the answer is easy...just imagine if we could re-create the energy and wisdom of this room in our communities!
But in practice....?

As usual I'll borrow my wisdom.
Confucius is ahead of us when he says:

" To maintain a city you must raise a wall"
" To maintain a nation you must raise an army"
" To maintain a civilization you must educate the children"

When enough of us have seen the truth and learned to care there will be no more chance of forgetting. We will be our own constant reminder to each other. This may require some commitment!!!

( er...you were'nt in a hurry were you Fred!)



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by kevzx81, Mar 11, 2009
ty1987- our posts overlapped. Any advice? 1) dont panic 2) dont panic 3) keep reading and posting.
Its worth reading all the posts and Emilys diary (click on her picture).
About addiction- its all in the pay off. It gives you more confidence, you stutter less etc. so you wont want to lose these 'advantages', may fear losing them. Fear is a big part of addiction. But you could gain a lot more than you lose if you tough it out. I only want to be happy too. But Tram is a one way ticket to misery. Your real happiness is waiting for you to claim it. It will mean a fight, but YOU ARE NOT ALONE.



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by KC67, Mar 11, 2009
Hi Ty,
I had to respond to your post above.

Yes, the trams can make you "happy"....at first.
If you read through Emily's journal (like Kev said, click on her picture and scroll down to "Journals"), you will find that almost everyone initially liked the Trams.  

But they turn on you.  

At first you only need 2 or 3 and then it doesn't take too long before you have to increase you dose to get the same effect.  Then, you notice that your personality is not quite as "happy" as you seemed when you first began taking them.  You slowly find yourself turning into an un-caring, un-feeling, easily agitated & irritated Trama-bot who walks around in a Trama-fog.  I am not kidding about this.  It happened to me and to many others on this journal.  

Tramadol has a hidden tri-cyclic antidepressant that initially makes you feel happy and energetic.  But again, after a while it turns on you and you feel the OPPOSITE.  

My advice to you is seriously consider all of the horrendous, random withdrawals that people have endured on this forum and you will probably find that it is just not worth it to have a TEMPORARY "happy" feeling.

I wish you the best and know that there is a ton of support and experience on this journal.
Sincerely with hope and love,
KC

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by pfcpremosgirl, Mar 11, 2009
I'm ok today. Not great, but ok. Its been one week. The PA gave me a 4 day supply of the clonidine, dicyclopine, and zofran combo, that was on Sunday. So I will be on my own again shortly. I am ok with that. That trio kinda knocks me out on its own. But the naps have been lovely. I needed them. I've been watching "normal" people, and trying to do things normal mothers do with their children. Instead of being tied to my house waiting on a delivery, or stuck in that trama-fog, and running around nonstop. Do I want one? Yes, I'll be honest, but then what? Nothing but more, more, more. I won't act like the psychological battle is over or won. It will last forever, and I will always have to fight it. But the physical withdrawal is easier everyday, and I find myself thinking I like being out of tramadol he**. The shoulder pain is still bad, which is the condition that put me here to begin with. But I manage with my Mobic and physical therapy. I've told everyone. Which is a blessing and a curse. I've been told I probably became dependent because of my "personality", because this particular person took one tramadol a day for two weeks, and thinks she knows. She had no effects from stopping, so why would I? I HATE being called a liar, but I kept my cool. Told her I am very happy she was fine. Anyway, I have gotten more positive responses than negatives. I feel like since more people know, I will more easily be able to stay off it in the long run. Still glad to be able to post here. Its a lifesaver sometimes.

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by Shadetree, Mar 11, 2009
Hello everyone,

I heard a sorta old Pink song on the radio today and she says...Im a hazard to myself, dont let me get me, Im my own worst enemy, Dont want to be my friend no more...lol
I thought wow, that is so true. I did this to myself, and I will fight with myself the rest of my life about it. Addiction that is, always wanting a pill, to feel good, better than I already do...I am an addict, I havent really admited it until coming here. But I am, I get addicted to opaites. Not alcohol, not weed, nothing else. I have had a love affair with pain pills for most of my adult life. It is going to be very hard to stay "clean" but I am determined. Im so glad they are not so easily accessable...for me anyway. It takes much effort for little gratification. Once I get the tram out of my system and stay that way for some time, I know the cravings will deminish quite a bit. There are times I can remember that I went months and months without any sort of pain pill and had no desire for them. Then one day would come along when Im bored with every day life and think hmmm,  wonder what I could do to get some...STUPID! So I look forward to have my mind back free of the cravings. Then hopefully I will be able to control myself...Now that i know what is on the other side, maybe it will be a little easier. Im still tapering, done to two a day still. Still thinkin about quiting on fri...but I will play it by ear and see how I feel.

DavidM3~ How are you feeling after the jump off? Just curious about any w/d's after your taper to quiting...

Ty~KC said it best. We all liked taking tram at first, but it does and will turn on you and make you feel the opposite. It has happened to everyone here. And it will happen to you too. I thought I could "control" it, that it wouldnt happen to me. WRONG! Anyway I would tell you really really really reconsider staying on this stuff. You havent been on very long, so get out while you still can and you might get away will minimal withdrawls...

Emily~ Havent heard from you in a bit...How are you doing?

Thank you everyone for your posts, they help me tremendously.

<3 Shade

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by FinallyFred, Mar 11, 2009
Ty,  Welcome to this forum.

I would GENERALLY never PRESUME to tell someone else what to do about taking the tramadol.  I can't fully appreciate how "happy" these things make YOU feel, because I don't know you, I haven't BEEN you.   I don't think you will find many PROHIBITIONISTS here.   Men and women like the way this drug makes us feel at the start.  I don't think it is odd at all that you are experiencing some positive affects of the drug right now.  

I think that most here (myself included) understand that trams seemed to fill some purpose, especially in the beginning. For myself, the trams took away post surgical hip pain.  PFC just posted about her pre-existing shoulder pain, and so on.  It's a trade off, I am afraid.  Are the original symptoms or reasons we began taking this drug  better or worse than our tramobot lives we became?  Each person must answer this for themselves.

The problem you will find with this drug though, is that the same dose will eventually no longer produce the same "happy" affect on a person.  You have shared that you are already increasing your dose to maintain/achieve the same affect.

The recommended "safe" dose of tramadol is 400mg/day.  8 pills.  After a while, a tramadol user has really only three choices:  (1) buy online to keep increasing the amount of this drug to feed the monkey, (2) suffer nearly constant withdrawal symptoms produced by remaining at the "safe" dose prescribed by their doctor, or (3) STOP.  

This forum is filled with good people who have tried opting for (1) or (2) above for many years.  I have seen people post on other addiction forums on MedHelp, stating that they burned through 200 pills in 3 days.  MANY have gotten to the point of needing 20-30 pills/day to feed the monkey - to keep from feeling UNWELL.  I fell into (2) above.  I suffered regular withdrawal symptoms because I was always taking too few (and too many) of this drug.

Over time, tramadol users notice a change while on this drug.  While in the beginning, we take this to cope with pain, or to make us feel energetic, outgoing  or "happy", in the end it becomes all about feeling LESS UNWELL.  As our bodies cry out for more and more of this drug, we notice that we are taking trams just to keep ourselves from suffering the withdrawal one experiences when we don't feed what the LYING tram has aclimated our body to NEED.  Prolonged use of this drug rarely has a happy ending.

That said, I have never known anyone to stop something like this - SIMPLY on the advice of other sufferers.  I think you will need to discover your own truth here.  I took this damned drug for six years and nobody ever suggested that I stop taking it.  I seriously doubt that I would have been able to liston if someone else told me to stop anyway.  I had to discover my own truth.    

Nobody arrives at this forum without at least having some concerns.  I expect that this is true for you as well.  You said that you aren't certain what you should do.  Reading and posting may give you insights, but only you can determine what you should do.  You have my full understanding, love and support in the meantime.  Good luck Ty.

Fred

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by EmilyPost, Mar 11, 2009
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/69988

Howdy Buds!

Move over here would ya ------------------------------>

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/69988

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/69988



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by MsMarie1981, Mar 11, 2009
Ty,

My heart goes out to you, I can't imagine what your situation must be like, exactly, having a stutter can't be easy.  But I will tell you many people feel more confident, more well spoken, on tramadol.  I hear your  same words from my boyfriends mouth.  He doesn't have a stutter, but he is convinced that his professional success, especially the part of the job that has to do with public speaking, was a gift from tramadol.  He had his first big meeting off of tramadol this week and made himself so nervous with thoughts like "I dont think I can do this without tramadol..." that his NERVOUSNESS was evident in his speech. I'm sure that if he had calmed down and believed in HIMSELF instead of believing in tramadol that he would have done much better.  I know his situation and yours aren't exactly the same, I'm just trying to say that what you feel is common on tramadol, but I think that  what tramadol does for your speech may be psychological and not biological.

What you need to know is two part:  tramadol gives a placebo effect, meaning you feel confident because you think its helping, and that confidence calms your nerves and actually does make you a better speaker.   But its the CONFIDENCE, not the drugs, which makes you a better speaker.  Think about it, I've never heard of speech therapists prescribing tramadol.  

Secondly: Tramadol doesn't give gifts.  For every gift you think tramadol gives you, you will pay dearly.  Understand that this pill is highly addictive and if you continue on you will likely become slave to tramadol.  And the most messed up part is that after a short while, people on tramadol want to dissociate, be alone, disconnect from other human beings. Many start to ignore their social life and important relationships. So in the end, you could have the confidence to talk to people but not want to at all.  

While I haven't heard of anyone else here using tramadol to treat a speech condition, there are MANY people on this site who are suffering severe chronic pain conditions. So their pain, while different from yours, is certainly no less significant. I hope you find strength in their strength.

I assume you've probably visited speech therapists. I'm not aware of all of the alternatives to treat a stutter, but I have to think that there must be a better way than addiction to a pill that will numb you out, fog you up, mess with you psychologically and could eventually cause seizures.   Nobody can tell you what to do, everyone here has taken their own path, and we will support you no matter what.  But most here didn't have this website to inform them of the dangers of the drug and make their decision an informed one.  We just hope to provide you with the information to make the best decision for yourself.  A big hug.


++++EVERYONE++++
Tommy and I went to our first PA meeting.  I'll admit I felt like the group thought "what is that non-addict doing here?" but i'm hoping that thy will warm to me the way you all have.  Once Tommy finds a meeting he likes and a sponsor I'll make my way to alanon, but for now its helpful for me to hear other peoples experiences with pills.  It helps me to understand the problem more. Plus I'd like to stick around the PA meetings long enough to learn the language and maybe hear some things that I can use to support Tommy when he's struggling.  

I wanted to raise a question and see what you all thought.    Someone in PA made the point that addiciton is not a moral issue, that its a disease and so any morality must be removed from our thought process.  I think to myself "of course its wrong to harm your body, your relationships, etc..." and that seems intuitive to me.   Not to say that ANYONE here is a bad person, of course not, i adore you all and you saved my sanity and I dont think there are better people than those writing here. I just have a hard time divorcing something so negative  from my sense of right and wrong.  Can someone explain?

All my respect to everyone here.  Please know I'm thinking of you all and wishing you the very best.

And KC CONGRATS on 30 days!  And Dave congrats too, I know you're coming up on it.  And Fred thank you always for writing, how lucky we are to have your eloquence and perspective.

big hugs to all of you.
-marie

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by KC67, Mar 11, 2009
Hi Ms. Marie,
I'll be jumping over to Emily's new site (see her post above), but I wanted to respond on this one just in case you check this one first.

From my understanding, the PA people are correct.  My husband attends Gambler's Anonymous meetings regularly and although he KNOWS it is morally wrong for HIM to gamble money (large $$$ amounts, I might add)  - which has devastated our entire family!  Last year (before I found out), he had managed to take out 4 large credit lines behind my back and gambled them away within a few weeks.  Did he KNOW it was wrong?  Absolutely.  My husband is a good guy - just like Tommy - he just has something in his brain that is so powerful that makes the "draw" to gamble overpower the LOGIC to NOT gamble.  In other words, he can NEVER gamble again because one bet on a poker table would be so powerful to him that he wouldn't be able to stop.  

In comparison, I do not have a gambling addiction, I have a substance addiction (Trams and alcohol).  I can go sit at a poker or BlackJack table, bet a few dollars, and feel NO desire to bet anymore.  

However, when I was using Trams, I had an uncontrollable urge to KEEP up the good and "numbing" feelings that the Trams provided.  It was NOT enough to just take one.  As some of the people on this site who have been to GA, PA, or AA, they will tell you that your first use of a substance is ONE too many!  

So, back to being a moral issue vs. a disease.  

We are all wired differently.  What may become an addiction for one person, will not necessarily be a problem for another.  Most of us addicts realize that what we are doing is WRONG and also harmful to ourselves or our loved ones, but for some reason, the power of the addiction is stronger than our willpower to rationalize the morality of it.  Does that make any sense?

Tommy is not an immoral person, I am not an immoral person, my husband is not immoral.  We are just addicts in need of support and alternative ways to DAILY overcome our desire to act on our addictions.

Keep up the good work both of you!  You are both very lucky to be in this together and have each other for emotional support.  There are so many on here who can't share their struggles with anyone in their personal or family lives.  Thanks goodness we have our little Emily Post family here.  I would never have made it this far (Day 31 today - thanks for the congrats!)

Sincerely with love and hope,
KC

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by EmilyPost, Mar 11, 2009
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/69988

Howdy Buds!

Move over here would ya ------------------------------>

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/69988

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/69988



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by JLO2112, Mar 11, 2009
I`ve been reading this forum for awhile now and I finally quit tramadol last week. I tapered down and thought I was through the worst but today I really feel screwed up. My face feels like its on fire and I have no get up and go. I have a bottle of tramadol left but I`m thru with them. The reason I quit now is I`m on temp layoff, no work around here at the time. My wife died from lung cancer this past December and I am really numb. This is by far the worst year of my life and I`m 42 yrs old. My question is when will I get my energy back or am I really just depressed? Also has anyone else experienced the burning face and hands thing?




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by Hope91171, Mar 20, 2009
Hello Everyone,

I have taken tramadol/ultram off and on since 1999. Like everyone else on this site my first experience with tramadol was great!  After the first 20minutes of nausea I was so energized and amped up I felt like I could do anything- pain free. Because I work in healthcare it was easy to obtain or get a script from one of my friends. I think the problem really took of around 2003 all my problems with work, marriage,  and motherhood were easily solved by taking 2, then, 3 trams. Similar to other stories I became dependent on the trams just to get oob and be "normal"  whenever I was stressed, or angry I would pop 2 trams then all was well with the world. My hubby realized it was a problem before me. by 2005 I was ordering of the net- couldn't wait to see fed-ex (hopefully he came before the kids got out of school). On so many occasions I would deny my addiction to my hubby and use medical literature and collegues to tell my hubby he was over reacting. I usually go through 180/50mg pills in 3 weeks. I can take a bit from everyones story and identify with your actions. I cried and I laughed (more of the first) while reading the posts. Today is day 2 of cold turkey, I am sweating like a pig and my stomach is cramping like he--. I have already showered 2x's, tonight I will admit my addiction to my husband. I curse the day I ever took one of those pills. Shortly I will go out and by some of the mentioned things to help with withdrawal. I hate the fact that I allowed a pill to take over my life. I will not live like this anymore. I am appreciative of all the stories shared.


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by aliasofmike, Aug 13, 2009
I found this thread through a google search, although i had run into Emily's blog a few days ago (after begining my w/d). So I write to have it be written and also to thank you all, especially MsMarie because for whatever reason your perspective has helped the most.

I was prescribed Tramadol after a car accident 'for pain'. I was banged up but I could handle it, the real catch being that my doctors know i can't take ibuprofen because of my stomach (ibuprofen isn't good for you either honestly). Really I was hoping to get a few mild opiates for recreational or emergency use (i consider them hard to get but have never really tried). I enjoy them but never had any dependency problems (I took once for post-op but that's it).

I totalled my car in my accident so I called the nurse to say I was looking for a pain killer, and she informed me my dr doesn't prescribe pain meds without an office visit. I said that's okay (resigned), and asked her to leave her a message anyways because I wanted to talk to her. Some background here is that I have other chronic pain issues, prostatitis and a general feeling like I have a hernia, back pane and a slew of digestive problems. I have been addressing these through diet and lifestyle, after exhausting (and being exhausted by) Western medicine's attempts to classify and probe my condition (ever had a camera stuck up your penis?).

Anyways, the next day I get a call from the pharmacy telling me I have a rx for tramadol, and I have no idea what this is but figure I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. Later in the day my drs office calls back and the nurse informs me that i have this rx and that the doctor would like to see me next week, and I think that's just fine. Recently I have been motivated to again see if Western Medicine has anything to offer me, because I just do not feel right and I don't know what to do.

I pick up my rx and somewhat nervously take half a pill. It is unnerving at first, but I get into it. I'm definitely someone that gets a lot from tramadol, not too euphoric but happy and relaxed. From that point I started to take it a couple to a few times a day, but never as much as prescribed. I notice how much easier it is for me to talk to people and to sing. and my chronic pelvic pain, which is really a blow to my confidence and self-worth,  It was easy for me to work, even with a useless right hand and a job involving constant computer use and communication. "Well," I thought, "this is damn wonderful!"

At that point I began plotting how I would convince my dr to give me a rx for this stuff. Of course I found this to be partially legitimate, but I also was not giving up on addressing whatever it is underlying that is wrong and bothering me. When I went to the drs, I was suprised to have her ask me if I would like to take get a rx for them! Apparently, she had this idea from the start. She told me that there was some controversy about whether it was a narcotic/addictive but she thought it was malarkey. It worked like ibuprofen, but stronger and easier on the stomache. So far I haven't found information that tramadol is anti-inflammatory, which I asked her about specifically.

So for about another week I am pretty excited and happy, and perhaps a bit loopy (I fell over in a pretty ridiculous way at work). I doubt anyone noticed, because I like Tommy have my more quirky aspects. So, all goes well. I stay consistent in my dose.

At some point my friends cause me to consider perhaps my swift adoption of this drug into my daily regimen, and at this point good ole paranoia kicks in and I start to wonder if this is all to good to be true. I try to stop cold turkey as an experiment, figuring I've been taking so little and only for two weeks, shouldn't notice anything. Wrong. I could go fine until later in the day when I would feel very fatigued and in general bleh about life. I cut down to one dose at night for a few days, pushing it later for a couple of days until I took my last dose 3 days ago at 8pm (25mg i think).

Now this might be a little pathetic considering I haven't had nearly the history with this drug, but I think it should give all of you here some esteem to know how necessary it is that the medical profession change it's attitude towards this drug. It's BULLSHIT.

The first day is not that bad, I feel like quitting my job and that night I wake up to a strange auditory hallucination. I have a propensity from a young age to hear things, but this was an outlier for sure. The next day is more of the same, extermely grave and grim with some visual perception changes, until the early evening, where I experienced tightness in my neck and a migraine coming on, I haven't been getting migraines, although I used to constantly when i was younger. This steadily worsens into the night (I had to 'go on-site' for a software upgrade 9pm-12am for work), and I eventually have to leave even though shit is hitting the fan. I barely make it home and into bed, and immediately get up to puke, and repeat in violent profusion. I did not sleep, and went to the chiropractor the next (this) morning. He adjusts my neck and I start to feel better. I come home to take a bath and try to relax. After a few cups of ginger tea (a potent natural anti-inflammatory), and some breakfast at noon, I start to come around. I feel a lot better now, and hopefully I am through the worst of it.

All things considered, I had a lot of trouble not taking more to allay w/d and went throw w/d at a terrible time for me. All this after only two weeks of low dose use! It wasn't until a day into w/d that I found this website and really set myself against taking this stuff again.

Maybe the symptoms I had were unrelated, maybe partially related. I don't know and I don't really care to find out. Maybe more of taper would have helped. I was already at the low end, but all of this seems really variable. Can you even believe my body was hooked after two weeks!??

Thanks everyone and god bless.





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