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Mar 19, 2013 - 41 comments
Okay folks. I've got myself all worked up over some of the things being said about this rape case that has been plastered all over the news. Somebody posted a bit done by CNN that basically did all it could to make these teen age rapists look like folk hero's or something. Worse than that was a series of tweets that were posted at the bottom of this article.
After reading that stuff, I am no longer amazed at the unraveling of the collective moral fiber of this country. There are actually people blaming the victim.... Blaming the victim and threatening her as well. There isn't a modicum of sanity in Steubenville and I think the picture this scenario paints is indicative of the state of affairs for the whole nation.
I mean, the whole thing is tragic on so many levels. Obviously, this girl was intoxicated to the point of passing out and or blacking out. I think that says a lot about the teen drinking situation and what parents will allow their kids to get away with. Then you have what looks to be 2 pretty decent kids, football players, who completely came unwound and committed one of the most heinous acts there is. On top of that you have the news portraying these kids as the victim and you have other teens saying that they are going to beat up the victim? What in the hell is wrong with this picture, people?
There is no excuse for any of this. Not the victim being passed out drunk, certainly not the 2 boys repeatedly raping her, and absolutely no excuse for anyone to say that they are going to beat the victim up. Oh... and then this kid goes and takes photo's of the situation and posts that stuff out there on the web? Wow...
In the article (there was a video piece accompanying the article), one of the boys said "my life is over, nobody will want me now". How tragic is that that the kid can't take his mind off of himself for one minute to recognize what he had done and acknowledge that he potentially ruined not only his life by being stupid but also ruined the victims life?
The only thing I feel sorry about with this whole scenario is the fact that so much common sense was completely void at the time of committing this heinous act. The victim does have a part to play in this, so she isn't totally exempt here... but there is absolutely no excuse for what these 2 boys did and they have to learn that.
Now, after being sentenced at least one of them had a show of emotion. The kid broke down while trying to apologize to the victim, victims family and the community... I think the gravity of the whole situation hit him right between the eyes at that point and he realized that he was going to be a registered sex offender the rest of his life all the while the victim tries to find a way to not have to be the victim for the rest of hers. In a small town like that, there is no hiding...
I am sad, upset, disgusted... all at the same time. I've tapped into a new level of disgust for our nations main stream media and have found very little to hope for when the future will be bridled by people like these teenagers who committed the act and the ones who threatened to beat up the victim. No wonder the world looks down at us these days. We're a pitiful lot....
After reading that stuff, I am no longer amazed at the unraveling of the collective moral fiber of this country. There are actually people blaming the victim.... Blaming the victim and threatening her as well. There isn't a modicum of sanity in Steubenville and I think the picture this scenario paints is indicative of the state of affairs for the whole nation.
I mean, the whole thing is tragic on so many levels. Obviously, this girl was intoxicated to the point of passing out and or blacking out. I think that says a lot about the teen drinking situation and what parents will allow their kids to get away with. Then you have what looks to be 2 pretty decent kids, football players, who completely came unwound and committed one of the most heinous acts there is. On top of that you have the news portraying these kids as the victim and you have other teens saying that they are going to beat up the victim? What in the hell is wrong with this picture, people?
There is no excuse for any of this. Not the victim being passed out drunk, certainly not the 2 boys repeatedly raping her, and absolutely no excuse for anyone to say that they are going to beat the victim up. Oh... and then this kid goes and takes photo's of the situation and posts that stuff out there on the web? Wow...
In the article (there was a video piece accompanying the article), one of the boys said "my life is over, nobody will want me now". How tragic is that that the kid can't take his mind off of himself for one minute to recognize what he had done and acknowledge that he potentially ruined not only his life by being stupid but also ruined the victims life?
The only thing I feel sorry about with this whole scenario is the fact that so much common sense was completely void at the time of committing this heinous act. The victim does have a part to play in this, so she isn't totally exempt here... but there is absolutely no excuse for what these 2 boys did and they have to learn that.
Now, after being sentenced at least one of them had a show of emotion. The kid broke down while trying to apologize to the victim, victims family and the community... I think the gravity of the whole situation hit him right between the eyes at that point and he realized that he was going to be a registered sex offender the rest of his life all the while the victim tries to find a way to not have to be the victim for the rest of hers. In a small town like that, there is no hiding...
I am sad, upset, disgusted... all at the same time. I've tapped into a new level of disgust for our nations main stream media and have found very little to hope for when the future will be bridled by people like these teenagers who committed the act and the ones who threatened to beat up the victim. No wonder the world looks down at us these days. We're a pitiful lot....
Right on Brice!...
This is right down the street from me (well, about 45 minutes). I know a few people who live in Steubenville who know some of the people involved. They said there was so much coddling and trying to sweep things under the rug it was pathetic.
What makes me absolutely ILL is how the media is uber focused on how SAD it is that these boys got sentenced and how devastated they were, blah blah blah, often with NO mention of the victim and the HELL she endured. Teen boys are good for stupidity and pranks...forcible rape, exploitation, humiliation are NOT pranks. It astounds me that ANYONE is trying to garner pity for those monsters. They are getting off SO easy. Good that they ruined their life. Good. They should.
"The kid broke down while trying to apologize to the victim, victims family and the community... I think the gravity of the whole situation hit him right between the eyes at that point and he realized that he was going to be a registered sex offender the rest of his life all the while the victim tries to find a way to not have to be the victim for the rest of hers."
He broke down because he got caught, plain and simple. These boys had NO souls...they thought it was all so hysterically funny on the video and for weeks afterwards. Not ONE of them thought they should help her. ONE boy brings up that "this is wrong" on the video, but he is quickly dismissed, and he caves, laughing hysterically shortly after. Remorse was short lived.
The one kid was texting the victim before it all came out, and his ONLY concern was that he was about to be kicked off the FB team. Really? It's disgusting on so many levels it's sick. They bragged and laughed and hooted and hollered like they had just gone hunting or fishing. If you haven't watched the video of the bragging and laughing, talking about how "that dead girl just got SO raped"..you must. You also must read the transcripts depicting the graphic nature of the videos and photos taken that night. It's so foul and unimagineable there are no words.
Shame on the media for even MENTIONING those boys in this. I truly hope they burn in he**. Amazing, incomprehensible. I have not one FIBER of pity for them. If ANYONE should be getting threatened, it should be them. Amazing that the mentality of today's world finds it acceptable to side with these monsters. They're not 9 years old...they're WAY old enough to know better.
What makes me absolutely ILL is how the media is uber focused on how SAD it is that these boys got sentenced and how devastated they were, blah blah blah, often with NO mention of the victim and the HELL she endured. Teen boys are good for stupidity and pranks...forcible rape, exploitation, humiliation are NOT pranks. It astounds me that ANYONE is trying to garner pity for those monsters. They are getting off SO easy. Good that they ruined their life. Good. They should.
"The kid broke down while trying to apologize to the victim, victims family and the community... I think the gravity of the whole situation hit him right between the eyes at that point and he realized that he was going to be a registered sex offender the rest of his life all the while the victim tries to find a way to not have to be the victim for the rest of hers."
He broke down because he got caught, plain and simple. These boys had NO souls...they thought it was all so hysterically funny on the video and for weeks afterwards. Not ONE of them thought they should help her. ONE boy brings up that "this is wrong" on the video, but he is quickly dismissed, and he caves, laughing hysterically shortly after. Remorse was short lived.
The one kid was texting the victim before it all came out, and his ONLY concern was that he was about to be kicked off the FB team. Really? It's disgusting on so many levels it's sick. They bragged and laughed and hooted and hollered like they had just gone hunting or fishing. If you haven't watched the video of the bragging and laughing, talking about how "that dead girl just got SO raped"..you must. You also must read the transcripts depicting the graphic nature of the videos and photos taken that night. It's so foul and unimagineable there are no words.
Shame on the media for even MENTIONING those boys in this. I truly hope they burn in he**. Amazing, incomprehensible. I have not one FIBER of pity for them. If ANYONE should be getting threatened, it should be them. Amazing that the mentality of today's world finds it acceptable to side with these monsters. They're not 9 years old...they're WAY old enough to know better.
They even video recorded the act of peeing on her.
"He broke down because he got caught, plain and simple"
Absolutely.
couldnt agree more!! He had no reguard for life so.......
It is terrible that this happened and I hope that the story leads to less incidence of this in the future.This is a terrible act committed by two very messed up kids.
I do not believe that this is a reflection of society or even kids in general as I believe that most of them are good and responsible people.I seriously doubt that our future country will be led by rapists. I believe that it is a great disservice to the victim and her family that this horrible act is reduced to yet another opportunity for the statement of one's political views.
I do not believe that this is a reflection of society or even kids in general as I believe that most of them are good and responsible people.I seriously doubt that our future country will be led by rapists. I believe that it is a great disservice to the victim and her family that this horrible act is reduced to yet another opportunity for the statement of one's political views.
I can't wait till other charges are filed. http://www.xojane.com/issues/steubenville-rape-verdict-alexandria-goddard
i hope it did not sound like i was defending therapists, they fully deserve what they got.
Somewhere along the way, someone forgot to teach these boys how to respect women. Sadly, I think this goes on way more then any of us realize Everywhere, , and not for modern social media, and the people stupid enough(thank God they are) to post it, these things sadly would and do go without ever coming to light.
The victim in this case was underage, and I am sure had NO idea what her alcohol tolerance was. Should she have been drinking! Hell no, but, many adult women have done the same, and by no means do we expect to be taken advantage of in any way for consuming too much alcohol, or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time sober.
Also, my high school friends, and adult friends have always had an oath " leave no friend behind". Wether drug, or sober. You look out for one another. The "friend" that told her " I left when you were passed out naked", should think twice next time.
I live just a within an hour or 2 of Steubenville. It saddens me to think what my children will have to be protected from.
The victim in this case was underage, and I am sure had NO idea what her alcohol tolerance was. Should she have been drinking! Hell no, but, many adult women have done the same, and by no means do we expect to be taken advantage of in any way for consuming too much alcohol, or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time sober.
Also, my high school friends, and adult friends have always had an oath " leave no friend behind". Wether drug, or sober. You look out for one another. The "friend" that told her " I left when you were passed out naked", should think twice next time.
I live just a within an hour or 2 of Steubenville. It saddens me to think what my children will have to be protected from.
well said ricart.....I have so much fear for my own son (17 in 2 months) and I have been a very strict parent and I have worked so hard to instill values, respect, especially towards girls/women. I have "preached" to him the importance of making one bad decision or be in a situation/party/friends house, etc; to step up and do the right thing, or walk away if there are drugs at his disposal.
All I can say is our society and the way a victim is treated like this young lady was is sickening to me. For anyone to threaten her life is just as sick and guilty as those boys are!
God help us all...............
All I can say is our society and the way a victim is treated like this young lady was is sickening to me. For anyone to threaten her life is just as sick and guilty as those boys are!
God help us all...............
I am sorry the rapists not therapists. eep
I do not consider this a statement about society.No one in my society would try to cover this up or be lenient toward the perpetrators.
This is not society.This is a tight knit group of weirdos in a small town who would go to any length to continue life as they knew it. As for the news-they are going to access whomever they can access and create maximum drama.That's what they do.I have stopped watching news altogether and have been "clean" from it for almost two years.lol All of the networks are like choosing between the mumps and the measles.No network is immune from pushing an agenda. I find myself more informed by watching fake ufo videos on youtube
I do not consider this a statement about society.No one in my society would try to cover this up or be lenient toward the perpetrators.
This is not society.This is a tight knit group of weirdos in a small town who would go to any length to continue life as they knew it. As for the news-they are going to access whomever they can access and create maximum drama.That's what they do.I have stopped watching news altogether and have been "clean" from it for almost two years.lol All of the networks are like choosing between the mumps and the measles.No network is immune from pushing an agenda. I find myself more informed by watching fake ufo videos on youtube
Alpha males (frat boys, jocks, etc.) molest and rape young women every weekend across this country. Most of it goes unreported/unprosecuted. This is nothing new, unfortunately. It's a form of domination. Society instill these values in these men by elevating them to a false status based on their athletic ability or appearances that makes them feel like that they are superhuman- gods - that can freely exert their will on another human without regard to the consequences. These boys were literally worshiped in Steubenville because high school football was the main source of entertainment. Instead of teaching that values such as humility, respect, and chivalry are most important, the high school football culture of Steubenville warped the focus of these boys to where heroics on the football field were elevated above character. Again, this happens every week and is swept under the rug, and these "men" grow up to be tomorrow's politicians and business leaders that make similar headlines.
ALL very excellent points! Man...some smart people around here!
I also watched the video I cried the whole time.They even urinated on the poor girl.Saying she is dead,dead as JFK as dead as Caley Anthony and other names of those passed away.To my way of thinking ,a person should be able to dance naked and not be raped!Rape is a form of violence and control.Those boys and the ones supporting them are revictimizing ( is that a word)?They are raping victims all over again by there evilness.Evil,evil evil.If they had been sentenced as adults they would have paid there dues in the joint probably daily.Babyrapers and rapists are the scum of the scum in the penal system.Most ask for PC.
In the little town I grew up in, the 'JOCKS' use to stand in the hallway between classes and make remarks about a girls breast size or what was in her pants.I was one of their victims.I still cry to think of it this day .The poor girls just trying to not be noticed by them.Sick SICK.Is there any hope for humanity?Makes me cry out "Ancient One Hurry Up!
In the little town I grew up in, the 'JOCKS' use to stand in the hallway between classes and make remarks about a girls breast size or what was in her pants.I was one of their victims.I still cry to think of it this day .The poor girls just trying to not be noticed by them.Sick SICK.Is there any hope for humanity?Makes me cry out "Ancient One Hurry Up!
Teaching begins in the home. The so called, "TIME OUT" is now coming back to bite parents on the butt for poor parenting. Parents are parents first, then friends to their kids, not the other way around.
Our society and culture is too sexed up. I blame (partially) the media for this. That is not a political statement but rather my take on the world we live in. I'm tired of the envelope being pushed.
But, that is seperate from this situation. Which is disgusting. Those boys will not be in jail long enough in my opinion.
But, that is seperate from this situation. Which is disgusting. Those boys will not be in jail long enough in my opinion.
The thing that surprises me the very most about this whole story is that people are surprised.
I grew up in a small Texas town with a fabulous football team and this is what happened on weekends.
This is what was happening there in Steubenville there, too, now 35 years later. Same thing.
Same drunken vomit fests with a few girls who get passed around. These kids presence is ALL OVER the internet once you know their names - the perps, the girls (the victim, and the two who are now in custody because of tweeting "threats"), and you can see how they spend their time typically.
This wasn't the victim's first "rodeo" or her last.
Just like in my hometown, there were the football players who drank and groped girls and there were the girls who were basically the same girls at those parties every weekend.
Some things change, some things stay the same. In my time there was no way to photograph and send images and typed messages easily. That's the difference.
I grew up in a small Texas town with a fabulous football team and this is what happened on weekends.
This is what was happening there in Steubenville there, too, now 35 years later. Same thing.
Same drunken vomit fests with a few girls who get passed around. These kids presence is ALL OVER the internet once you know their names - the perps, the girls (the victim, and the two who are now in custody because of tweeting "threats"), and you can see how they spend their time typically.
This wasn't the victim's first "rodeo" or her last.
Just like in my hometown, there were the football players who drank and groped girls and there were the girls who were basically the same girls at those parties every weekend.
Some things change, some things stay the same. In my time there was no way to photograph and send images and typed messages easily. That's the difference.
Connecticut high school football players charged with sexually assaulting 13-year-old girl, it goes on and on.
TORRINGTON, Conn. – Two members of the Torrington High School football team have been charged with sexually assaulting a 13-year-old girl, who has been taunted on social media sites in recent weeks by dozens of classmates upset at the allegations.
TORRINGTON, Conn. – Two members of the Torrington High School football team have been charged with sexually assaulting a 13-year-old girl, who has been taunted on social media sites in recent weeks by dozens of classmates upset at the allegations.
When I was a kid, we didn't have things like "Time Out". We had a thing called "Times Up" and you got your tail whipped or severely straightened out for being an idiot. There were always certain circumstances and we all knew that. I think that is part of whats missing these days.
And of course, things like this have been happening for a long time. But what I feel is different now is that people try to excuse incidents like this. I don't care what the "circumstances" are surrounding a rape. It's never acceptable and I have a real hard time trying to feel sorry for the perpetrators. What is there to feel sorry about? I'm supposed to feel sorry because you decided to rape somebody??? Nope, you aren't going to get any sympathy from me. Even if this girl were a prostitute, you don't rape people and that is the end of the story.
And of course, things like this have been happening for a long time. But what I feel is different now is that people try to excuse incidents like this. I don't care what the "circumstances" are surrounding a rape. It's never acceptable and I have a real hard time trying to feel sorry for the perpetrators. What is there to feel sorry about? I'm supposed to feel sorry because you decided to rape somebody??? Nope, you aren't going to get any sympathy from me. Even if this girl were a prostitute, you don't rape people and that is the end of the story.
Brice, I think what's different now is that people DON'T excuse it. What used to be a part of life - that some girls choose to do this on weekends and guys are more than happy to invite those girls to a party - is no longer considered acceptable.
On the flip side of this, is the girl. She didn't want to press charges (nor surprising, she's a teenager) but her mother made her. And now even her mother is asking that this end and no further charges be sought by the Grand Jury, but it's going on without their approval.
My heart aches for her, her family, the family of Malik ( the other boy, not so much) and the families of the two girls who wrote angry posts that were NOT meant to be seen as serious threats. Now they're in juvy, charged with felonies.
Surely the victim didn't want THAT to happen.
This whole case is reminding me of a John Irving fictional organization, the "Ellen Jamesians". A group of women who all cut off their tongues in sympathy for a girl who'd been raped and had her tongue cut out. They took up her mantle and fashioned their lives around what a victim she was, and she disdained them. When I see those nuts with the masks on, all I can think is that they're Ellen Jamesians, and what must this girl think when she sees them.
On the flip side of this, is the girl. She didn't want to press charges (nor surprising, she's a teenager) but her mother made her. And now even her mother is asking that this end and no further charges be sought by the Grand Jury, but it's going on without their approval.
My heart aches for her, her family, the family of Malik ( the other boy, not so much) and the families of the two girls who wrote angry posts that were NOT meant to be seen as serious threats. Now they're in juvy, charged with felonies.
Surely the victim didn't want THAT to happen.
This whole case is reminding me of a John Irving fictional organization, the "Ellen Jamesians". A group of women who all cut off their tongues in sympathy for a girl who'd been raped and had her tongue cut out. They took up her mantle and fashioned their lives around what a victim she was, and she disdained them. When I see those nuts with the masks on, all I can think is that they're Ellen Jamesians, and what must this girl think when she sees them.
I saw this case on Dr. Phil a few weeks ago. The way some of the people down played this was horrible. The way the boys talked about it so openly like it was no big deal is a shame! She was intoxicated and incoherant but that does NOT give any guy the right to take advantage of someone. They got what they deserved and hopefully they learned their lesson and they have a long time to think about what they did. No one is above the law...it doesn't matter who or what you are. They're not little kids. They knew it was wrong and they did it anyway and joked about it afterwards. That shows the disrespect for anothers feelings. I have a daughter and if this was my child I'd fight with everythig in me for justice.
I agree mama, it was horrible. I'm glad that further charges are happening and I sure feel like those boys already convicted should have gotten more of a sentence. Remorse for getting caught is not touching nor does it create any empathy with me. Hope all involved are charged and have consequences that hurt.
No person deserves to be the victim of such pigs.
No person deserves to be the victim of such pigs.
@ RockRose.... Rapes and sexual assaults largely go unreported because of all of this. This girl was victimized, continued to be victimized through all of the court related issues and testimonies and it gets old. I understand why the girls mother wants it to stop. She too gets to be victimized continually as long as this is going to be in the news and after that. I also bet the girls mother does not want her child to continue to be the target of more threats. I really, really bet the mother wishes her daughter had not been raped and everyone involved would not have to go through all of this.
Rapes change lives. Lots of lives. The perpetrators, the victims, their families, their friends are all changed now. You can't "un-rape" someone. Probably the best this girl can hope for is a lot of therapy, be able to come to terms with what happened, some lifestyle changes that better help her not find herself in a similar situation, ever again. Hyper-vigilance...this girl will probably question every scenario for the rest of her life. "Am I at risk of being raped."
These boys lives have changed too and they also will probably be hyper-vigilant. "Am I in a position where I will be accused again". That is kind of the price you have to pay by making the decisions these kids made. I mean, is this unfair or unjust in any way?
All of this was avoidable. Doing the right thing would have avoided all of this.
I think when the one father said, "I was not there for him" is an excuse. I don't know what else you would call it. There are a lot of people who were raised in similar circumstances that aren't out raping people. It is somewhat tragic that the families of the perpetrators have to go through all of this. The get to question everything they ever did... "what did I do to facilitate this?". "What if this never happened? What great things could my kid have accomplished?"
The fact is, life is not over for anyone involved. Some good can come of this. This victim can go on to lead a "normal", productive life. These boys can move on and perhaps do something wonderful... make a difference one way or another, but everyone's plans change when something like this happens. Plans have to change when something like this happens.
Rapes change lives. Lots of lives. The perpetrators, the victims, their families, their friends are all changed now. You can't "un-rape" someone. Probably the best this girl can hope for is a lot of therapy, be able to come to terms with what happened, some lifestyle changes that better help her not find herself in a similar situation, ever again. Hyper-vigilance...this girl will probably question every scenario for the rest of her life. "Am I at risk of being raped."
These boys lives have changed too and they also will probably be hyper-vigilant. "Am I in a position where I will be accused again". That is kind of the price you have to pay by making the decisions these kids made. I mean, is this unfair or unjust in any way?
All of this was avoidable. Doing the right thing would have avoided all of this.
I think when the one father said, "I was not there for him" is an excuse. I don't know what else you would call it. There are a lot of people who were raised in similar circumstances that aren't out raping people. It is somewhat tragic that the families of the perpetrators have to go through all of this. The get to question everything they ever did... "what did I do to facilitate this?". "What if this never happened? What great things could my kid have accomplished?"
The fact is, life is not over for anyone involved. Some good can come of this. This victim can go on to lead a "normal", productive life. These boys can move on and perhaps do something wonderful... make a difference one way or another, but everyone's plans change when something like this happens. Plans have to change when something like this happens.
Surely the victim didn't want THAT to happen.
I'm sure this young girl is petrified and confused beyond belief. That's one good thing about the justice system...that whenever a crime occurs, it's out of the hands of the victim(s)...the state decides what legal recourse is necessary.
No doubt that this girl (and others like her) aren't careful enough and don't exercise enough caution, to end up SO messed up that they have no control over themselves...is not a good thing. But it will NEVER excuse the kind of animalistic non-human behavior exhibited by the boys.
It's a shame that so many people are quick to blame the victim, or put some level of responsibility on her shoulders. She was guilty of poor judgement, yes...and having crappy friends who didn't protect her, yes. But, no matter WHAT she did or said, somewhere, somehow, these boys thought it was okay to rape her, violate her over and over, degrade her, etc. If this had been a stranger who did this to her, the town would be ready for a hanging. Instead, everyone wants to have sympathy for these boys. No sympathy coming from me. They are DAMN lucky they got off as easy as they did. One news story made this BIG deal about how sad it was that these young, bright boys with a whole life ahead of them have to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives. ARE YOU KIDDING ME????? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!!!
Yeesh.
I'm sure this young girl is petrified and confused beyond belief. That's one good thing about the justice system...that whenever a crime occurs, it's out of the hands of the victim(s)...the state decides what legal recourse is necessary.
No doubt that this girl (and others like her) aren't careful enough and don't exercise enough caution, to end up SO messed up that they have no control over themselves...is not a good thing. But it will NEVER excuse the kind of animalistic non-human behavior exhibited by the boys.
It's a shame that so many people are quick to blame the victim, or put some level of responsibility on her shoulders. She was guilty of poor judgement, yes...and having crappy friends who didn't protect her, yes. But, no matter WHAT she did or said, somewhere, somehow, these boys thought it was okay to rape her, violate her over and over, degrade her, etc. If this had been a stranger who did this to her, the town would be ready for a hanging. Instead, everyone wants to have sympathy for these boys. No sympathy coming from me. They are DAMN lucky they got off as easy as they did. One news story made this BIG deal about how sad it was that these young, bright boys with a whole life ahead of them have to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives. ARE YOU KIDDING ME????? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!!!
Yeesh.
"No doubt that this girl (and others like her) aren't careful enough and don't exercise enough caution, to end up SO messed up that they have no control over themselves...is not a good thing. But it will NEVER excuse the kind of animalistic non-human behavior exhibited by the boys."
And this girl is probably thinking about the situation that she put herself in.... If there is any hope, this girl will straighten her life around, find some sobriety and make a difference in life. She is probably questioning the caliber of "friends" she had chosen... all of that is natural after a situation like this, and all of it is unfortunately her cross to bear now. "If I hadn't been pass out drunk, would this have ever happened to me?" is probably a question that is playing like a bad music loop, over and over in her head.
The thing that bothers me most is that there was nobody there to help this girl. Nobody said, "this is not all right that this girl is passed out drunk" and nobody got her any help or removed her from the situation. Further more, when the assault was taking place, the story seems to have been no lack of people who weren't somehow "cheering" these 2 idiots on.... How in the hell was there not at least 1 person who said, "Nope! This ain't happening" and put a stop to it?
That is so bothersome to me.
And this girl is probably thinking about the situation that she put herself in.... If there is any hope, this girl will straighten her life around, find some sobriety and make a difference in life. She is probably questioning the caliber of "friends" she had chosen... all of that is natural after a situation like this, and all of it is unfortunately her cross to bear now. "If I hadn't been pass out drunk, would this have ever happened to me?" is probably a question that is playing like a bad music loop, over and over in her head.
The thing that bothers me most is that there was nobody there to help this girl. Nobody said, "this is not all right that this girl is passed out drunk" and nobody got her any help or removed her from the situation. Further more, when the assault was taking place, the story seems to have been no lack of people who weren't somehow "cheering" these 2 idiots on.... How in the hell was there not at least 1 person who said, "Nope! This ain't happening" and put a stop to it?
That is so bothersome to me.
I think there are few on this forum who have spent (wasted) more time than I have reading the exact particulars, the transcripts of testimony, tweets, photos, videos, mainstream articles from the sports section and church bulletins (I'm not kidding) relating to the activities of all of these kids before and after the evening of Aug 11.
What emerges is a clear image of what happened, and the motivations. Revenge, rage, sexual favors offered by a nearly sober and very drunk girl, and sexual liberties taken on a girl who was not conscious. Sex acts and degrading acts performed on a girl who wasn't conscious. Sex acts performed that she doesn't remember, but was apparently conscious and functioning throughout. Best girlfriends who severed ties after that night, and not because of any charges pending but because they'd had enough of babysitting a girl who wouldn't stop drinking even though her best girlfriends were begging her to.
You can also see and hear boys telling them to stop it, to leave her alone, and "that's not right" when they were joking.
There's a lot going on that night, and it's not as clear cut as a girl who fell unconscious and then boys located her and performed acts while she was asleep.
But you're right, Bryce, none of this - NONE of it would have happened if everyone was doing the right thing and using good judgement and treating each other with respect. None of it.
What emerges is a clear image of what happened, and the motivations. Revenge, rage, sexual favors offered by a nearly sober and very drunk girl, and sexual liberties taken on a girl who was not conscious. Sex acts and degrading acts performed on a girl who wasn't conscious. Sex acts performed that she doesn't remember, but was apparently conscious and functioning throughout. Best girlfriends who severed ties after that night, and not because of any charges pending but because they'd had enough of babysitting a girl who wouldn't stop drinking even though her best girlfriends were begging her to.
You can also see and hear boys telling them to stop it, to leave her alone, and "that's not right" when they were joking.
There's a lot going on that night, and it's not as clear cut as a girl who fell unconscious and then boys located her and performed acts while she was asleep.
But you're right, Bryce, none of this - NONE of it would have happened if everyone was doing the right thing and using good judgement and treating each other with respect. None of it.
I find it troubling that anyone would make comments like friends were sick of babysitting the girl. That she was unconsious and functioning, blah blah blah. She was a victim of rape and then degraded in horrible ways. But whatever. Not worth my time arguing why I see that as so wrong.
I wish the boys got more of a sentence and again, am glad more are possibly going to face charges.
I'm wondering if someone gets a hold of one of these football superstars and even though they are sober they are still raped and some of the things done to that girl are done to them . . . that they find all the joking and cheering just as hilarious as they did in the situation when they were the rapists.
I wish the boys got more of a sentence and again, am glad more are possibly going to face charges.
I'm wondering if someone gets a hold of one of these football superstars and even though they are sober they are still raped and some of the things done to that girl are done to them . . . that they find all the joking and cheering just as hilarious as they did in the situation when they were the rapists.
SM, well, it was a twitter conversation between the victim, a couple of the boys, and some girlfriends, from the afternoon after the event. Mostly they were two way exchanges, the girl and one other person, while she was trying to ask what all had happened the night before because she couldn't remember. It was there that a girl said she wasn't going to be friends with her anymore after that series of parties.
So it didn't start out as a public statement, it was a private (not really actually) conversation.
So it didn't start out as a public statement, it was a private (not really actually) conversation.
The things that they did to her were awful and they deserved every single second that they got. I heard the kids themselves on a tape played on the news. Pigs.
I have no idea why you would defend such gross kids. But that's your choice.
I have no idea why you would defend such gross kids. But that's your choice.
NOTE: I'm not saying anything that wasn't referenced at the trial, by the witnesses. Although the actual tweets weren't posted in media articles, testimony relaying the conversations were discussed by witnesses on the stand.
Just to be clear I'm not writing anything that isn't in the public record.
Just to be clear I'm not writing anything that isn't in the public record.
SM, I'm not defending them.
I'm kind of defending Malik, actually. There were participants who were given immunity so they would testify that did worse than he did. And there were boys, and a girl, who did not testify, weren't given immunity and have apparently been passed over by the prosecution. This whole thing was so totally unfair - the one boy who orchestrated the whole thing will almost undoubtedly get off scott free.
And I was sickened by that loser who kept saying "she's deader than a . . . ." but in fact, I don't think being a moron and a creep is a crime. :(
I'm kind of defending Malik, actually. There were participants who were given immunity so they would testify that did worse than he did. And there were boys, and a girl, who did not testify, weren't given immunity and have apparently been passed over by the prosecution. This whole thing was so totally unfair - the one boy who orchestrated the whole thing will almost undoubtedly get off scott free.
And I was sickened by that loser who kept saying "she's deader than a . . . ." but in fact, I don't think being a moron and a creep is a crime. :(
I've said about all I can say at this point. I hope all those boys suffer consequences for their actions for the rest of their lives. Nothing is unfair about those who were convicted---- even if more should be along with them. My opinion anyway.
There is talk going around that this victim was a bit out of control, often, at these parties. If one of her friends chose to not be best friends because of that, I kind of understand that. Nobody wants to be the one person who has to baby sit the one person who has the likelyhood to get bombed at every party. I completely understand that and that is that girls right to not be a part of it. Maybe, and just maybe, this girl didn't want to risk being any part of what happened or didn't want to be a part of what may or may not happen in the future. Nonetheless, there was a rape... there was all kinds of photographic evidence of what happened, and I am guessing this evidence was critically observed.
So, if this girl was the type of girl that always ended up the most drunk at parties... as I mentioned above, that is her cross to bear and that comes with everything that can happen with being that type of person. (Rape however is not acceptable, ever.)
We had a couple of girls like that at our high school. Everyone (especially the boys) kept these two at arms length. Everyone knew what kind of problem this presented.
So, if this girl was the type of girl that always ended up the most drunk at parties... as I mentioned above, that is her cross to bear and that comes with everything that can happen with being that type of person. (Rape however is not acceptable, ever.)
We had a couple of girls like that at our high school. Everyone (especially the boys) kept these two at arms length. Everyone knew what kind of problem this presented.
Rose, I respect you and enjoy your posts here...and while you absolutely make valid points about the way the justice system is sorting this out, perhaps unfairly (and I would agree)...there just is this underlying tone of blaming the victim. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that this girl was a party girl and had maybe acted in similar ways before, but it still just does NOT excuse what happened. 1+1 don't equal 2.
She wasn't ABLE to give consent or not give consent. It's just that simple. Maybe her friends were indeed sick of her, but that STILL doesn't make one SECOND of this okay. I don't think you're saying that...but I think you're giving passes to the boys (malik) and putting blame on the girl. That's just so fundamentally wrong.
If a girl got TOTALLY trashed, stripped naked, and put a sign on herself that said "rape me",,,it STILL wouldn't be okay. What's so disturbing to me is the bravado and laughing and celebrating like they won a game. They spent a WHOLE night torturing this girl basically. It's beyond comprehension.
She has ZERO responsibility in this IMO. If she fell down and cracked her head open because she was drunk, she would own that. If she ruined a rug because she threw up on it, she would own that. She doesn't own the behavior of these monsters. She made bad choices, you'll never get an argument out of me there...but no matter what, this would just never be okay.
I'll tell you, back in my party days, I'm not proud to admit I wasn't always making the best judgement calls, and got WAY too intoxicated on WAY too many occasions. This could have easily happened to me, as I have blacked out on a few occasions...but it didn't, because I had many people, even just people I knew but wasn't super close with....who helped me, made sure I was safe, and made sure I made it home. SOOO many people failed this girl it's just sad. No random guy ever saw me passed out and thought it would be okay, cool, and funny to rape me, pee on me, and film it all.
She's going to have to live with this forever...and it's just SO sad that anyone would be placing any iota of blame on her. Those boys made the decisions to do what they did. Her state of intoxication is irrelevant. If they have the potential to do something this bad...if it wasn't her, it would have been someone else...maybe a girl with learning disabilities? That would be pretty disgusting too right? Well, I don't see a lick of difference...wrong is wrong.
She wasn't ABLE to give consent or not give consent. It's just that simple. Maybe her friends were indeed sick of her, but that STILL doesn't make one SECOND of this okay. I don't think you're saying that...but I think you're giving passes to the boys (malik) and putting blame on the girl. That's just so fundamentally wrong.
If a girl got TOTALLY trashed, stripped naked, and put a sign on herself that said "rape me",,,it STILL wouldn't be okay. What's so disturbing to me is the bravado and laughing and celebrating like they won a game. They spent a WHOLE night torturing this girl basically. It's beyond comprehension.
She has ZERO responsibility in this IMO. If she fell down and cracked her head open because she was drunk, she would own that. If she ruined a rug because she threw up on it, she would own that. She doesn't own the behavior of these monsters. She made bad choices, you'll never get an argument out of me there...but no matter what, this would just never be okay.
I'll tell you, back in my party days, I'm not proud to admit I wasn't always making the best judgement calls, and got WAY too intoxicated on WAY too many occasions. This could have easily happened to me, as I have blacked out on a few occasions...but it didn't, because I had many people, even just people I knew but wasn't super close with....who helped me, made sure I was safe, and made sure I made it home. SOOO many people failed this girl it's just sad. No random guy ever saw me passed out and thought it would be okay, cool, and funny to rape me, pee on me, and film it all.
She's going to have to live with this forever...and it's just SO sad that anyone would be placing any iota of blame on her. Those boys made the decisions to do what they did. Her state of intoxication is irrelevant. If they have the potential to do something this bad...if it wasn't her, it would have been someone else...maybe a girl with learning disabilities? That would be pretty disgusting too right? Well, I don't see a lick of difference...wrong is wrong.
I bet they sat through the trial thinking that they won't get convicted because they are football players. May their incarnation be one of the scariest things that they will ever have to live through.
Nurse, I appreciate everything you're saying. The fact is, though, she gave consent when she was sober enough to consent, very early in the evening.
And then later became too drunk to give legal consent. (In Ohio, 16 is the age of consent, and the boys were either 16 or 17. So sober, she was able to give legal consent to the acts early in the evening).
It just becomes so blurry.
And making it even more horrible, there were 4 kids who orchestrated this on purpose, to take pictures to pass around and humiliate her. This wasn't an evening that kind of unfolded and stuff happened and got wilder and wilder, this was a purposefully orchestrated humiliation in revenge for . . . something, I don't know what. Had to do with a former relationship that turned very very ugly.
Three who orchestrated this public, photographic humiliation haven't been charged and likely won't. Meanwhile, two coaches likely will, and a bunch of kids (some who weren't present at any of the events) have been publicly named as a part of the Big Red Rape Crew, a name made up by Anonymous website.
The ones who orchestrated this awfulness 1. got her to come there, 2. made sure alcohol was available for her to serve herself and 3. photographed it and passed around the photos, even posting them on YouTube. Meanwhile, what they knew would happen did - their plan worked exactly as they predicted - and the ripple effect of that cruel revenge has snared people and ruined their reputations forever, although they had nothing whatsoever to do with any of this.
And those people, IMHO, are much worse than the boys who took what was offered.
And then later became too drunk to give legal consent. (In Ohio, 16 is the age of consent, and the boys were either 16 or 17. So sober, she was able to give legal consent to the acts early in the evening).
It just becomes so blurry.
And making it even more horrible, there were 4 kids who orchestrated this on purpose, to take pictures to pass around and humiliate her. This wasn't an evening that kind of unfolded and stuff happened and got wilder and wilder, this was a purposefully orchestrated humiliation in revenge for . . . something, I don't know what. Had to do with a former relationship that turned very very ugly.
Three who orchestrated this public, photographic humiliation haven't been charged and likely won't. Meanwhile, two coaches likely will, and a bunch of kids (some who weren't present at any of the events) have been publicly named as a part of the Big Red Rape Crew, a name made up by Anonymous website.
The ones who orchestrated this awfulness 1. got her to come there, 2. made sure alcohol was available for her to serve herself and 3. photographed it and passed around the photos, even posting them on YouTube. Meanwhile, what they knew would happen did - their plan worked exactly as they predicted - and the ripple effect of that cruel revenge has snared people and ruined their reputations forever, although they had nothing whatsoever to do with any of this.
And those people, IMHO, are much worse than the boys who took what was offered.
Teak, I agree with you completely. And may this girl have a life full of blessings.
I think maybe I need to stop posting in this thread.
I'm not trying to make anyone angry, or appear to be blaming this girl for this awful humiliation that she suffered.
I have read some things that have happened to people who got caught up in this - who weren't at the party and had no part whatsoever in any of it - who have been threatened and harassed and whose lives are forever altered although they are as innocent of any of this as we in this thread are.
Best wishes.
I'm not trying to make anyone angry, or appear to be blaming this girl for this awful humiliation that she suffered.
I have read some things that have happened to people who got caught up in this - who weren't at the party and had no part whatsoever in any of it - who have been threatened and harassed and whose lives are forever altered although they are as innocent of any of this as we in this thread are.
Best wishes.
I get what you're saying in a sense, but honestly, I've never heard that she consented to any sexual act at any point, and obviously, even if she DID, she wasn't consenting to what happened. Also, I would think that her intoxication would negate any kind of consent she gave prior? I mean, I don't know the laws on that...but I would think that would be common sense. I think a sex act is not something a person really can consent to ahead of time...it's an "in the moment" kind of thing. Things can change, situations can change, and certainly a person's willingness can change. No matter what, she wasn't ABLE to consent to anything at the point where stuff went down. That's a given.
A lot of legal mumbo jumbo I'm sure that I don't understand. It's just a very very very tragic situation. I REALLY hope at some point those boys will realize their accountability in this, and not just because they're upset they got caught. I don't think (from what I've seen) that they are capable of that, and of course, to make matters worse, they have adults, role models around them giving them the wrong message by blaming the victim. The very people who should be teaching and leading them are allowing them to make excuses and not be accountable.
A lot of legal mumbo jumbo I'm sure that I don't understand. It's just a very very very tragic situation. I REALLY hope at some point those boys will realize their accountability in this, and not just because they're upset they got caught. I don't think (from what I've seen) that they are capable of that, and of course, to make matters worse, they have adults, role models around them giving them the wrong message by blaming the victim. The very people who should be teaching and leading them are allowing them to make excuses and not be accountable.
There is so much more to "the talk" than there ever was and every parent is responsible for making sure their kids understand what that entails. I certainly sent my son off to college with the whole "If she is drunk, don't touch her because you can be charged with rape the next morning even if she does say yes." The perpetrators, the victim, and the onlookers are all paying the price for this one and what a wake-up-call it is to everyone else in the country.
Nursegirl, all good thoughts.
I'm not trying to ignore anyone's thoughts here at the end, and I think it's best that I just bow out of this discussion.
I'm not trying to ignore anyone's thoughts here at the end, and I think it's best that I just bow out of this discussion.
I agree with both of you. But regardless of wether or not she gave consent EARLIER in the evening she was obviously incoherent and they unrinated on her and clearly joked about " what it was like to have sex with a 'dead girl'" and that she was more out of it than "Kurt Kobain" they knew clearly what they were doing. Wether or not she was a "wild party girl" or if she was "easy" she could not say yes to them and they took advantage of that fact. This is why a lot of rapes and assaults go unreported because the victim feels the will get the backlash and the blame. They took advantage of someone that was in a vulnerable state and they are now "so so sorry" because they got caught. They didn't seem to care when they were putting it on blast and joking about it on camera and Twitter. And the father that said it was his fault for not being there is BS. He's a teenager that knew it was wrong to do that to another person. There's absolutely no excuse for any of their behavior. They got what they deserved and I hope the judge does decide to keep them until they're 21. A year is not enough and that's coming from a mother. Shame on them and anyone trying to justify a RAPE!!
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