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Tramadol & Ultram Withdrawal and Recovery Room Part 6

Apr 05, 2009 - 208 comments
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Welcome to Part 6!

Please make yourself at home!

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by kevzx81, Apr 05, 2009
Hi Everyone, my nets been playing up this week so Ive missed a lot. Been busy too with spring planting and learning to live differently with my pain.

So this is...

Post Tram Pain Management Diary.....part... A really important bit!!!!

Validation,validation,validation. I know Ive talked about this before but it really is worth more attention.

Wanna know an (almost) secret?? Validation can reveal feelings that have been forgotten,trapped,masked off etc. One feeling can sometimes hide behind another too....

Heres how I found out: I was feeling very angry and frustrated the other day. I thought that I knew where these feelings were coming from so I used self-validation on myself with the thought"of course Im angry and frustrated,Ive been working with my pain for 2 hours to no effect and NOW I have to fix the CAR before I can get home!" Usually this would work and my feelings would subside to some degree but this time self-validation did not seem to work.
So I asked myself "what else might I be feeling angry or frustrated about?" Some time later I remembered what it was. Anger about one thing hidden/masked by anger about another thing,an event I thought I had forgotten.
Validation doesnt only help process our feelings it helps reveal/recall/unmask feelings we carry that are 'hidden' from us.
All these feelings create changes of tension,posture,chemistry in our bodies and are part of a feedback system informing us of our condition.
Ive been listening and responding to my 'feedback system' with validation for about 2 weeks now and I notice 4 things: Im sleeping better and Im getting more done. Also my stamina is increasing and the number of hours in pain per day/week is down. Hopefully this will hold or improve.There have been bad days, fog this week defeated me outdoors...damp and cold are not friends of spinal pain in my experience.

The commonest feeling Im getting from myself is resentment. Resenting making the effort, resenting the pain, resenting life for causing me pain. Of course Im going to feel resentment sometimes,after all this pain has to be faced for the rest of my life( I am encouraged to believe by the same experts that validate Tramadol!!)as far as I know.

Well, Ive found that I CAN enjoy planting spinach in pain, but I cant enjoy anything if Im feeling resentment,anger et al.

Something else seems to have changed..my pain doesnt 'lock in' for as long on bad days and Im feeling more relaxed in general. Today I was even feeling sociable!!!!

Validation works.
You can test it for yourself.
It wont harm you but it might make you 'weller' faster than you are comfortable with.
Children will LOVE you for it.
It will simplify your life.
It improves all relationships.
You will sleep better.
You will be more relaxed.
You wont be 'haunted' by feelings as much as before.
AND you get the chance to win a holiday for 2 at the Las Vegas Hilton!
(YES, I'll say ANYTHING to sell this idea!)

Of course you may feel skeptical, after all youve been fed so much ******** before.

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Emily- I once wished you a lighthouse, now you have helped me build a better one for myself.
I spent some time with children today and it was so thought provoking. I got to see how validation could fill my life with love. Several adults were left wondering why the kids were all so 'drawn' to me. This was not easy to respond to in a mixed group. I didnt know what to say. Validation is also a doorway for the love of ourselves and others to enter by.
Not ideal 'pub conversation' lol. I truly believe that from now on my relationships will be more fully human. I dont know of any thank yous big enough Emily.((((((thank you)))))).

Yet more...Ive also been watching tv this weekend and observing how/if 'successful' people use validation...another eye opener!! Its worth noting that in show business people who invalidate the work or reputation of others dont often do well by it. Invalidation is bad business. Obviously invalidation has its place. we wholly invalidate the idea that Tramadol is harmless. We must invalidate many things. It wont always be easy to know which ideas to validate and which not to. But our feelings are(mostly) less complicated because they are always valid it seems....and if they dont seem valid then we are probably missing something.
If my anger seems invalid then I have forgotten something that I am still angry about.

Emily-Its all so perfectly circular and simple!!! I can see why you believe so much in this one idea! Im truly overwhelmed by this gift,no one person/idea has ever done as much to aid my happiness as this. When I first came to the site it was soon obvious that people got weller here,often very quickly.But I couldnt see exactly why. Now I can.
So Im happy to be long winded and gushy in this post, just so long as I can go on record on this thread and say to anyone who comes here after me:

EMILY IS RIGHT- VALIDATION WORKS-TRY IT AND SEE.

Emily-I wish you all the love in the world.((((((Thank you))))))

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by FinallyFred, Apr 06, 2009
Kev,  That was a beautiful post.  Tell me more about "how" you use validation.  I mean, what are the steps someone like me would go through to put this technique into play in my life?   How do I make this work?  I can be sort of slow sometimes, so please forgive me for asking.  But I do want to understand more about the steps you go through, the "self talk" you engage in, etc. to make this work.

One of the things that you said, that I can really relate to is, "The commonest feeling Im getting from myself is resentment. Resenting making the effort, resenting the pain, resenting life for causing me pain. Of course Im going to feel resentment sometimes,after all this pain has to be faced for the rest of my life."

Two of the reasons I kept taking the tramadol for six years were "fears" and "resentments".  Of course, i told my doctor that I needed the trams for "pain", but if the truth were told, I kept taking this drug to fog and numb emotions, fears, and resentments.  And I don't think I am all that unique.  

Speaking of "drinking", someone once said, "stopping drinking isn't hard, it's the STAYING STOPPED that is difficult.  I think that the same can be said about tramadol.  And what you are talking about Kev, is what we can do to live soberly, once we have stopped.  Once those emotions, fears and resentments, those things we may have used tramadol to numb... come flooding back.  We have all talked about the common emotions, like, excessive crying and laughing, as the affect of this RAT POISON works it's way out of our bodies.  

I think that you are dead on - things like validation ARE necessary once we get off the trams.  Like another person said once, we are never "cured" of this disease/addition.  All we CAN hope for is a daily reprive based on our spiritual condition.

So, yes, those first 3-5 days getting of fthis drug can be hellish. But what are we going to do with ourselves after that?  Once those fogged over emotions, fears and resentments come bubbling back into our beings, how are we going to live life on life's terms?  

Taking this demon drug for myself is NOT an option.  

I'd like to hear more how you are using validation Kev.  It's deadly serious that we learn to LIVE without this drug.  Without it's mind fogging potency.

Someone asked me recently in a pm to explain the biggest advantages of living without this drug.  Many of us here have discussed these things in detail, but for myself, (1) having a clear, NONFOGGED mind and (2) no longer being s SLAVE to this terrible drug are at the top of my list.  

The first reason (having a clear mind), should be clear to anyone who has walked into a room and forgot why there were there in that room.  To anyone who has been tugged out of their fog, by a young one, trying to get our attention through the tram-a-fog.  To anyone who just made a left turn, and realized by the honking of horns, that in our zoned out space, we had not looked for traffic.  ETC. ETC. ETC.

The NOT  "being a slave" thing has been huge.  No longer do I go into my doctor's office with my hat in my hands, asking for higher doses of this lousy drug.  No longer do I need to "count pills".  No longer do I circle "RX day" on my calander.  No longer do I live my life around when I can refill my perscription.  No longer do vacation plans revolve around when I will have a "full load" of my precious pills.  No longer will I "celebrate" the end of every rx cycle with those all too common withdrawal symptoms.   No longer do I look under car seats and in my medicine drawer for taht one that got away.

Nope. I don't miss being a slave to those pills.

And we haven't begun to talk about seizures, trips to the E.R. from overdosing, the cost of this drug OR the unknown damage I was causing myself while taking this unnecessary terible drug.

I spent 4-5 days working through the acute withdrawal and other symptoms (especially the lack ofr concentration, irrregular sleep, and stabbing pains in my feet) took longer to work through.  Weeks and weeks, huh KC?

But today, I am not working through withdrawing from this lousy drug.  I am learning to live life on LIFE'S  terms.  Resentments and fears mess with the quality of my sobriety if I am not tending to my spiritual condition.    Stopping tramadol may be hard, but it's the STAYING STOPPED that will ultimately demand my attention and care.

But it's no big deal.  It's just a matter of life or death.

Courage, Strngth and love to you guys,

Fred

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by EmilyPost, Apr 06, 2009
Ahh Kev! You're the best! Thank you so much for that incredible post! I couldn't have said it better! That made me so so happy! Yes, Validation, Validation & Validation. Wonderul image of a Lighthouse really. I'm not surprised that children are attracted to you when you simply Validate. Just thinking about validating my own emotions brings a big sigh of relief really.

So glad that you understood how circular that idea is! Hooray! It was, many years ago a huge revelation for me. As an addict (drug of choice is food) I know that Validation keeps me sane. The recognition of that is beautiful. So often I tell people this; and I get "Wooden ears." (Love the wooden ears thing Fred)

And I love how you are really embracing the emotions under the emotions. We're such beautifully layered creatures. It's so wonderful to see Kev!And I agree that planting spinach and being in pain isn't so bad. When i think now, of the Doctors who assure me I would need surgery, it makes me shutter. Time heals many wounds. I have pain now, but there's no way I trust that it's "real." I believe my body needs Time without any pills to see where the true pain scale is. Is it hard to not freak out and believe that my Sciatica and my lower back pain has returned? Yes. Esp when it is cold and raining and I'm walking down my stairs like I am 106 years old. Yes, it's hard. But the alternative is to continue to trust untrustworthy Doctors who have insisted I take many pills. I have officially failed a whole lotta drugs.

I've been spending huge amounts my day having flashbacks. Klonopin/Benzo withdrawal does that. Vivid memories, complete with sense of smell. I've been reliving my Father's funeral. Memories of him have been appearing in the most lucid sort of waking dream state. So vivid. So real. Grief piling on top of Grief ... This is the Klonopin at work ...

Two nights ago I did the final cut. On .06mg now, which is 1/8th of a .5 mg pill. Practically nothing, nearly licking pills now! But wow, what a brain can do! I think it's really ironic that only now,  on my last cut do I start to see a pattern. In 48 hours after a cut, I get sick. Stomach pain, nausea, spinning, blinding rage, every muscle and every joint locks. Neck and arm pain that rivals any car accident I can recall. Memory loss, crazy thoughts, racing thoughts, insomnia, sweaty or desert like dry skin. Pale, eyes sunken junkie appearance .. and .. I have to live in the Parka.

I remember Fred talking about me being huddled in the Parka. And I was smiling because yes .. I WAS huddled in the parka! Plus I had the inability to write or think. So lets just say that I watched alotta movies. I forced myself to watch comedies!

I see glimmers of myself shining thru the Fog now. There I am! Hooray!

Today I went into  the room that is "my" room here. It has a bunch of clutter in it and mainly what struck me? The empty pill containers. I found some Tramadol blister packs all empty ... made me nauseous and angry. LOL! Ok most things make me nauseous and angry lately. The Klonopin is threatening to Boil My Bunny! Klonopin will not be Ignored! :D

I laugh and it's me laughing. I have minutes at a time where I feel "Normal." The last two cuts were brutal. It's big percentage cuts at the end. You can get around it by titration; but I dry cut with a razor blade. All the way down.

I feel emotion beginning to return. I get really happy when something makes me cry! Yay for the emotional release of crying. The emotional blunting that happens during a Benzo taper is intense. I really have to say that it's been like living in someone else's body. See; Depersonalization and Derealization. I was talking to a man I have known for 15 years. He's 80. His wife of 55 years passed away a year ago.

He was talking to me about her memorial service, which just happened. He was telling me stories about her and he began (of course) to cry. I was in pretty deep then. This was a couple of weeks ago. I felt ... nothing. And it was so disturbing! Troubling because normally I would have cried with him and been upset. But the Benzo taper turns one into a strange, sweaty, dizzy, unfeeling and slightly feverish person.

So, I can already see that I'll be coming back! I can see bits of me returning to me. Today in the cluttered room I also found a large collection of Crosses. You see, when I was on Tramadol I became (as many have mentioned) a rampant Consumer. And one thing I decided I needed was Crosses. Necklaces. I didn't want to be without at least one around my neck. Preferably more. So i found all these crosses today and I remember so well that I felt ... almost as if a Demon or Evil Creature needed to be warded off. I was ON TRAMADOL at that time, and I was taking a maximum dose and my pain was getting so much worse. So yeah, Tramadol is a devil. Of sorts. Now of course I see all the natural "remedies" I bought and I have to kind of wonder how much I spent trying to counteract the effects of Tramadol , and it's buddy Klonopin.

I was literally trying to call up God and have a chat ... with my many Signs of the Cross ..

I found things I don't remember buying. Brand new stuff and tons of it, tags on and brand new. Open a bag and find another bag. I had some strange obsession with not throwing away boxes also. SO today I threw away boxes. I feel almost as if I was in a sort of dreaming state. Though Nightmare is more like it. The auditory hallucinations of someone saying my name in a whisper right as I was about to fall asleep. So creepy.

So in the meantime, I have another day to rest tomorrow. It's past 11 PM and I feel as if I suddenly woke up. The mornings are very hard, and then it gets better. By night time (which is when my blood levels of klonopin are lowest) I feel ready to wake up and party down. It's really amusing! I don't sleep alot, but I have dreams thank Goodness! At least I am getting into deep restful REM sleep!

I have a recurring nightmare that I grab the wrong pills and accidentally dose myself with the wrong dose. If all goes well, it is 10 days til I kiss Klonopin, the last of all  the pills bye bye!

And the only thing in Benzo withdrawal that has helped is time. Benzos have to be tapered. I have tapered as slowly and carefully as I can. If I had big emotions I'd be overwhelmingly happy and proud. LOL :D As it is, my brain is pretty much waving one single small flag and saying, "Oh good! No more pills!" I guess the wrap party will be small and dignified! Party for one!

Love & Healing,
Emily

((((Fred))) great post!


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by noodlegrl, Apr 06, 2009
Wow.. this incredible dialog is what I get to come back too? I am blessed. Kev, you gave me a "whoa, dude!!" moment. I need to learn how to do that. I have been through a lot in my life and when I found Tram I thought I hit the jack pot on feeling better. When as we know all it did was cover stuff up never to be dealt with again. Not to mention all the negative things it started to bring as tolerance was reached. I need to learn how to validate all this stuff that is coming back to "haunt" me. I am with Fred, can you explain in a little detail how you do this?

Today is day 12 and I haven't had any symptoms today. And we will just leave it at that :)

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by noodlegrl, Apr 06, 2009
P.S. I am sorry I don't have long insightful things to contribute to the wonderful dialog - I don't understand this "disease" very well. Totally new to it...

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by bjb97, Apr 06, 2009
Hello all,

I am now on Day 11 Tram free and I cannot believe how much different (better) I feel.  I have more energy, I'm more focused, still a bit sleep deprived but I'm hoping my regular sleep rhythms will return eventually.  I was sleeping 10+ hours on the Tram and sometimes taking a nap too!!! So I shouldn't complain about 6 hours I guess.  I wish I could cash in on all of the sleep I stored up taking the Tramadol.

I just returned from my first Post-Tram trip.  I went back to the Midwest (Omaha) to visit my Dad for a long weekend.  I thought it would really bother me because a "vacation" was a great excuse to take even more of the "happy" pills and my pain was also worse due to hauling a backpack around etc.  Anyway, other than having difficulty sleeping, I really didn't think much about the Tramadol.

I am trying to eat a lot healthier as I tend to be a sugar freak and also am exercising.  My body/mind seem to be thanking me for this and responding well.  I noticed that during the last couple of months on Tram my coloring seemed a bit yellow (probably because of the toxins in the liver) and I now have a much more healthy look and my skin even feels better.

Glad everyone seems to be pushing through the pain and ridding themselves of this awful substance.  Congrats to all!

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by KC67, Apr 06, 2009
I agree that the above posts are “incredible” (as Noodle said) and “beautiful” (as Fred said) .  

Kev, you are so right when you said, “When I first came to the site it was soon obvious that people got weller here, often very quickly.  But I couldnt see exactly why.  Now I can.”

Kev, I too have seen this over and over with people who have come.. and gone…and stayed.  I am thankful for all of their candidness, have benefitted from their honest stories, and have celebrated as most “got weller here” .

When one feels safe and validated in a place where honesty and openness are encouraged – the healing can begin.

I was watching Oprah today and they had 2 women who started a blog about their feelings on a certain topic.  I couldn’t help but think of Emily and this incredible forum she started.  These 2 women began a blog where they were completely open and honest about the way they felt.  

And guess what????  People responded.  They NEEDED to be validated that what they were feeling was REAL and worthy of acknowledgment.  That they weren’t “alone” in feeling the way they were feeling.

That is exactly what we have here – thanks to Emily.

A place where we can come and be open and forthright about our reasons for taking Tramadol (or any other substance for that matter) and the way it changed our feelings about ourselves, our perspective on life, and the physical toll it took on our bodies.  This is a non-judgmental place we can come to for healing.

Not only would I NOT be able to say that I am 57 days Tram-free if NOT for this website, but Emily gave me the courage to kick my benzo addiction as well.  As far as I’m concerned, I think she should be the next featured guest on Oprah.

Validation….I need to ponder this more.   Kev, I too (along with Noodle and Fred) would appreciate more info. as to HOW your thought process works when the negative, frustrating, resentful feelings arise.  HOW do you (exactly) combat these feelings with validation?  I realize that I have these feelings and want to know your secret to conquering their negative impact???

Emily, once again I am relieved to know that I am not alone in my benzo withdrawal feelings of sweaty/dessert dry and then chills  – in addition to irritation, anger, and derealisation.  I have 4 more cuts to make before I am in the same boat as you.  You give me great hope that I will eventually return to normal.  

I desperately want to feel again – to dream again (as in “REM” sleep) – and to NOT rely on drugs to keep me from getting there.  “Bits of me returning to me” as you said.    Perfectly said.

Blessings to all of you with hope and love,

kc






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by BASSMAN66, Apr 06, 2009
RANDY  Q.   FROM NC.
I HAVE BEEN ON TRAMADOL OR ULTRAM FOR 5 YEARES ,AND I MUST SAY WITHDRAWS FROM THIS DRUG ARE WORSE THAN MORPHINE OR OCYCONTTIN / I WANT TO THINK I AM A FOOL I WANT TO GET OFF OF THESE DEVIL PILLS FOR GOOD I GO TO A PAIN CLINIC FOR A INJURY / I HAVE WENT THRU WITHDRAWS AT LEAST ONCE A MONTH FOR 2 YEARS ,BECAUSE I COULD NEVER MAKE /OR TAKE THEM LIKE I WAS SUPPOSE TO I TOOK 8 A DAY AND THEN 10 OR MORE AND MY SCRIPT WAS FOR 8 A DAY 1-2 TABS EVREY 4 HOURS
SO ABOUT FOUR MONTH AGO A PAIN DOCTER PUT ME ON[ ULTRAM 3OOMG ER] EXTENDED RELEASE...NOW I CAN "TNOT WIENG MYSELF OFF THESE DEVIL PILLS SLOWLY I AND I AM WANT TO STOP AND AM VERY SCARED !
LIKE I SAID EARLY I WAS ON OXY 20 MG FOR A WHILE AND THEN MORFINE PATCHES AND UTRAM WITHDRAWS ARE FAR WORSE FOR ME IT IT LIKE DIYING SLOWLY .THE JERKY LEGS AND ARMS ARE UNSTOPABLE MY LEGS AND ARMS WILL JUST FLY UP IN THE AIR WITH NO CONTROL AND ALL I WANT TO DO IS CRY IT IS TROCHER AND I MEAN TO THE 10TH POWER !!MY PAIN DOC SAYS THERE IS NO WITHDRAWS FROM ULTRAM IT IS ALL IN MY HEAD .
LAST TIME I RAN OUT THREE DAYS EARLY I FOUND MYSELF OUTSIDE AT 3;OO AM RUNNING AROUN MY HOUSE TRYING TO MAKE  THE AWFULL FEELING AND JERKS STOP .
I HAVE MADE UP MY MIND I CAN LIVE WITH MY PAIN, BUT I CAN T LIVE WITH THE THOUGHT OF A LITTLE PILL I WAS TOLD WOULD NOT HURT ME RULEING ME IF YOU HAVE NOT HAD WITHDRAWS FROM ULTRAM THAN HOW COULD YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE !BUT HERE I HAVE FOUND PEOPLE FROM EVERY WALK OF LIFE AND CAN SEE I AM NOT ALONE I WILL BE OUT IN 2 DAYS AND I HAVE REFILLS BUT I REFUSE TO GET THEM I WANT THE DEVIL PILLS OUT OF MY LIFE BUT I SCARED TO DEATH OF WHAT I KNOW IS COMING WITHDRAWS FOR ME ARE THE WORST THING YOU COULD THINK OFPOSSIABLE I NEED ALL THE HELP AND INPUT I CAN GET FOR THIS BATTLE LAST TIME I HAD TO COME OFF THEM COLD TURKEY WAS 2 YEARS AGO BECAUSE MY DOC WAS OUT OF TOWN /AND I WENT TO HOSIPITAL ER AND THEY PRETTY MUCH LAUGHED AT ME AND SAID IT ALL IN YOUR HEAD !!
I FREAKED OUT ON THEM I NEED HELP AND THERE WAS NONE THERE!
SO PLEAS ANT HELP ON THINGS TO HELP ME THROUGH THIS WILL BE SO HELPFULL AND THE NAMES OF WHAT I CAN BUY AND WHAT IT WILL HELP
OH YAH AND LOT OF PRAYERS
MY FATHER IS 70 YEARS OLD AND HE TO TO IS ON ULTRAM AND SAIN HE COULD STOP AT ANY TIME ,HE FOUND OUT ,I SEEN HIM CRY FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE WHEN HE WAS ON HIS SECOND DAY OF TAKING THEM AND I ASK WHAT WAS WRONG AND HE LOOKED AT ME AND SAID I DONT KNOW IA M SO DPERESSED AND DONT KNOW WHY I THINK I AM LOSEING MY MIND  AND FOR NO REASON .I LOOKED AT HIM AND SAID DAD IT IS ULTRAM WITHDARWS AND HE SAID WE WILL SE HE TOOK A 2 PILL DOSE AND A COUPLE OF HOURS HE SAID IT WAS ALL GONE THE DEPRESSION  TWICHYNESS ,AND THEN HE WENT ON TO TELL ME HE COULD"NT SLEPP THE NIGHT BEFORE BECAUSE HIS LEGS FELT LIKE HE WAS RIDING A BYCLE / THIS BROKE THE ICE AND I STARTED TO TELL HIM THE HORRA STORIES ABOUT ULTRAM SO IN 2 DAYS /HE AND I WILL STAT THIS DETOX TOGETHER I HAVE TOLD HIM TO PREPARE FOR A LONG HARD BATTLE !! SO PLEASE HELP ME I AM 43 AND HE IS 70 WITH ALL THE HELP YOU CAN GIVE !FOR ANY OVER THE COUNTER HELP WE CAN GET !!
WE WILL HEN THIS WAR ON THE DEVIL PILLS MY FATHER IS SO MAD AT HIS DOCTOR FOR GIVING HIM THIS AND TELLING HIM IT WAS NOT ADDICTIVE !! I TOLD HIM TO JOIN THE CULB THAT WE ARE 2 OF GOD KNOWS HOW MANY HAVE FOUND OUT THE HARD WAT ABOUT ULTRAM
BUT LIKE I SAID WE WILL WINTHIS WAR ON THE DEVIL PILL !
BUT I AM VERY SCARED OF WHAT IS COMING I HAVE NOT TOLD HIM HOW BAD IT IS GOING TO BE PLEASE HELP AND PRAY FOR US !!!!
THANKS FOR HEREING MY WORDS
RANDY Q

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by kevzx81, Apr 07, 2009

Hi Everyone, thanks for all the positive responses to my last post. I will do my best to explain in detail how validation takes place. Its so simple its easy to miss it.

But first let me say hi to some folks......

Fred-Yes, it was the pink cloud fog of numbness that whispered in my ear " mmmmm......I could get used to this" And yes youre right, we're in very good company as Noodle has already confirmed. I dont buy into the 'incurable' idea. Its so disempowering, it invalidates all hope. As Emily says, can we fully believe in our pain, and wether
or not we are curable? Whose word are we to take for this? The same 'authorities' that validate Tramadol and promise us its harmless? A lot of folks have a lot of $$ invested in us not getting well. Question everything!!!!!!
Fred I would never invalidate your strategies for dealing with your addiction,or anybody elses. But I think you are invalidating your hope by ASSUMING you will always feel weak against these things.Its the desire to numb our feelings that we 'relapse' into. But what if we find another way to process these feelings?We dont know the future. You taught me the dialogue for hope and forgiveness Fred and I had no hope that that would ever happen yet it did. Before coming here I had no idea that my own inner strength would prove better than Tramadol/meds in helping my pain, but it is. I felt weak against depression, a biggie for me. The only time I need to be on guard now is if something REALLY bad happens.My true demon is nihilism,feeling its all pointless and worth no effort-this triggers depression in me.
Addiction is powerful and we dont choose our addictions, they choose us it seems and this is why the hooks go deep. Fear of relapse is very real and for good reason.
BUT, by knowing our emotional triggers,identifying them when they occur and validating them correctly we can be much better protected and we can live lives where we are not 'on guard' constantly. I'll get to the meat soon Fred, bear with me.....

Noodle, Im with you on the whoa moment. The last two weeks have been one big whoa moment for me!! Theres nothing like anxiety overload to make us crave numbness.
Anxiety was the very worst w/d symptom for me. And youve made it to day 12!! The anxiety didnt defeat you!! we are stronger than we think. we have been taught to believe ourselves weak. Tramadol and anxiety have failed to overcome your quiet determination.You are proving the 'experts' wrong. All of us here are proving the 'experts' wrong.
Remember 'Piglet' from 'Winnie the Pooh' ? Piglet is easily frightened because he is SO aware of how small he is.Everyone is bigger than him. But even when Piglet is very frightened he still takes on a scary task. He feels the fear but does it anyway!!! We can all relate to Piglet right????? And we might do well to copy him!!

BJB-so glad to hear youre feeling better. good food and exercise are so effective...its like our body knows we're loving ourselves!! I loved my sugary snacks but now they taste wrong. something has definitely happened to my taste buds...re-tuning? I thought that changing my diet would be a real struggle but it happened by itself!!!
I dont care much why/how this happened, I only hope it stays this way! Hopefully you will continue to feel better and Im so glad youve shown that we can be effective inour own healing. We need all the evidence we can get!!

KC- Thanks a million for your observations.....you gave me exactly what I was hoping for; Real life examples!!! I hear youre doing benzo w/d and my heart goes out to you.And like Emily you still shine through...time for others in your own hour of need. Thats why I love everybody here. Taking time to hear and respond to the pain of others in our own hour of need must be one of the most deeply loving things possible. Everyone here is truly deeply loving. How can we NOT get well!!!!

You ask how we 'conquer/combat our feelings; interesting choice of words. This gives me a good intro...to combat our feelings is to INVALIDATE them. They CANNOT be'conquered'. They are not enemies. They are friends. We wont always like what they tell us, so we know they are true friends!!! We cant make them go away either.(bit like relatives too, lol). All friendships have to be 'serviced' at least occasionally if they are to be satisfying. So lets make friends with ourselves!! If we cant even service ourown feelings what quality of friendship can we offer to others?

UNSERVICED FEELINGS REMAIN A DISTRACTION. How well do we hear others when we are distracted?? Remember Tram fog?? See a similarity???
Unresolved feelings can cause fog. Heres an example; I was planting peas the other day and found myself thinking about someone I was angry at. Like its  not bad enough this guy owes me so much money, NOW Im bringing him to the allotment!!!! YOWSER!!!! WHOA!!!!!! I was having quite a dialog too!! If that isnt the sound of onehand clapping it must be the sound of two fools arguing!!!!

So at that point I deceided to have a cuppa in the greenhouse and identify my feelings.

These are the steps I took, my exact inner dialogue:

STEP 1 identifying feelings.
I said to myself, "what am I feeling right now?" "Is it just anger?" "Is there something else?" "Am Isad,resentful,anxious?"
This routine usually prompts emotional recall though it is not always immediate. But this time it was anger alone.

STEP 2 Why am I feeling this way?
I Itemise my known anger issues and validate them one at a time

Item 1 Im angry because a guy owes me money.
Validation- " Of course I'm angry, that money would be SO useful right now and he's taking FOREVER!"
Check- has the feeling subsided?
If not, what else am I angry about?

Item 2 my landlord wont fix the window.
Validation-"Of course Im angry, its costing me a fortune and its been months now..."
Check-has the feeling subsided?

If we are 'behind on our feelings' it may take time to catch up.

More examples...

I was feeling low, it crept up on me and suddenly there I was: Shoulders slightly slumped and suddenly a sigh on mylips.

Same routine again:

1 identify...." am i sad, depressed, weary,lonely?"...so many to choose from in this group of feelings.
Then I remembered...The allotment committee newsletter was still unread in the shed.....I was feeling dread!!!!!!!
I was dreading what pranks these folks would be announcing this month!!!

2 not needed this time as I know what its about, im not dreading anything else right now.

3 Validation " Of course I feel dread, who knows what those scary fools will try next(imagines machine guns,razor wire)?"

My dread then subsided.

Validation versus invalidation:
Fred- Of course you fear relapse, addiction nearly claimed you and it was too tough a fight to want a rematch. Does that validate your urge to be vigilant?
Fred-You shouldnt fear relapse, you beat it once you can easily do it again. Does that INvalidate your vigilance...you bet it does and much worse besides!
Fred- I hear and accept your fear. I have my own fears of course..My true feelings validate yours as yours validate mine. We have shared our humanity.

DETAILED EXAMPLE:
" Of course"(validates reality)" I feel envy",(validates feeling)" Ive always wanted a porsche myself".(validates target/object of feeling. Validates reason.)
" Its only natural"(validates reality)" that Im feeling frustrated"(validates feeling) "Ive been tring to get online for 4 days" (object of feeling/reason)


Resentment can be a toughie. Lets be honest...there is so much we can justifiably resent in life.

I can resent my pain, the wind,fog,mother,slugs,committees,the government,my doctor. I could be a hive of resentment if I choose. And my resentment is valid.

But now lets shift the dialog by just one word........." Of course I COULD feel resentment, those slugs have had ALL my peas!!!! "
So NOW Im validating my RIGHT to feel resentful, but WITHOUT accepting that I MUST feel resentful. I could let it spoil my day....its all optional, we canre-programme our selves and our feelings.

Another option creator...." of course(reality) I feel like Ive had enough(feeling),the pain is insistent today(object).Im not sure its worth it(the right to quit) But do I REALLY want to go home now(Validate my options)" This is how I learned to enjoy planting spinach with back pain.
              
Success varies with each feeling according to personality I think. Sometimes I can laugh off a feeling thats old,familiar. HELLO intellectual vanity!! Some feelings are reduced to old acquaintances I wave to across the street while others can still 'shell' me.
But its the overall effect of positive self-validation that works. We might only progress slowly at first and find some feelings difficult but the relaxed sense of being is tangible just the same.

Emily- You say " I want to find out for myself how much of my pain is real. I need time without meds." YES: question EVERYTHING. That is such a good question.
If Benzo w/d is depersonalizing and derealizng it has a lot in common with invalidation as does Tramadol. Lets REpersonalize and RE-realize,YES,that would be time SO well spent. Ive had a few 'parties for one' myself, I know you dont seek credit. But just the same I'll raise my glass and say BRAVO, you are a true exemplar.
For just this one moment of time can it be a party for two....three.....you do live in a mansion right? 17 guest bedrooms? OK we're on our way...........

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by kevzx81, Apr 07, 2009
Hi Bassman,  if you havent done so already, add this site to favourites as it can be hard to find again on some search engines. Welcome to Tramadol refugee land!! Theres nothing to stoke my anger like yet another tale of useless,lying doctors. Its been the same for many of us here. The anger is useful though, it can ward off fear and depression and it can help us thru w/d. It sounds like youve already seen much of the worst of Tram w/d the last few days, it shouldnt get too much worse from here but watch out for anxiety attacks and 'Tram thoughts', dark stuff usually.Hang tough and read everything here and post as often as you want!
All the best. Kev.

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by FinallyFred, Apr 07, 2009
Randy,  Welcome to this place.  I know a person feels a little out of sorts the first time they reach here, and I am sure that it took a lot of courage for you to post your story.  Thank you for your honest and detailed story Randy.

I am so sorry that the doctors put you AND your dad on the terrible tramadol.  RAT POISON.  And how dreadful it must have been when, after withdrawing for two days, the E.R. refused to help you.  Some day the medical community will understand the physical withdrawal involved in stopping this drug.  But for me and for you, sadly, we are left to do this on our own...and with the help of the people in this community.   But you came to a good place.  We all got here just as frustrated, angry and scared as you are now.  But there is hope.

Don't discard the anger that you felt at being left at the E.R. without any understanding or help for this very real problem.  I found that anger was helpful in the withdrawal process.   Channel the anger you feel at the drug, your doctors, the drug manufacturers and everyone who didn't understand how dreadful the physical withdrawal symptoms are.

A word of caution to you about your dad.  Are you certain that your dad is prepared to get off this stuff?  I would definately make sure he knows what the withdrawals are like and what's in store for him.  It's wonderful if he too wants to stop taking this drug, but I wouldn't be dragging him at his age (70).

Each person who has successfully gotten off this drug has done so with nothing less than an all out war mentality.  Is this something your dad is up for?  If he understands what he is in for and is committed to doing this, so much the better.  Having a buddy would be helpful but only if he is as committed to doing this as you are.  

Long hard battle?  Not so long really in the grand scheme of things.  Many of us wee 1/2 way to the miracle when we would run out of pills - and we didn't even know how close were had come.  Hard, yes at least it seemed do for me.  You said that you have gone through 2 days or more of withdrawing in the past.  It should take roughly 4-5 days to get through the worst of it.

You wanted suggestions so these are my 2 cents worth:

Google "Thomas Recipe".  I found that immodium helped with the "upset stomach", etc.  

I recall that the "recipe" recommends taking valium or another benzo, but from what Emily and KC have shared about withdrawing from THESE drugs, I'd be careful about taking any of those myself.

I found that  quinine helped with the restless legs, aka sharp stabbing burning pains in your feet and elsewhere.  Quinine can be found in tonic water w/ quinine and there is a product in health food sections of most stores called, Hylands Restful Legs, that contains quinine as well.  In my opinion, take a great deal more of the Hylands than is recommended on the label.  My doctor presribed gabapentin, which seemed to help with the stabbing pains in my feet.  

To help you TRY to sleep, pick up tylenol P.M. or bennadryl.  You could see a doctor and tell him what you are about to do and get him to prescribe something to sleep.  But it doesn't sound like your good doc even believes that tramadol causes withdrawal symptoms. It's  a thought though.   I went through this withdrawal without any prescribed sleep meds.  And I didn't sleep much the first 4 nights either.  Most people don't sleep much in early withdrawal.  It won't last forever though it may feel like it will.

I took a week off from work and I wouldn't have wanted to try and work that first week due to the lack of sleep I was getting.  So hopefully, you have a clear shot without many responsibilities.  But some here HAVE worked through withdrawal.  (Noodle girl, for example) Put off balancing your checkbook tha tweek too.  Not that you'd feel like doing that anyway...

And pick up some epsome salts to use to take baths.  I found that BATHS were  helpful during those first 4-5 nights when sleep was so illusive.  I still didn't sleep much, but soaking in the tub felt good anyway.  I can't refall taking a bath now for 3 months.  Neve wa a big bath guy.  But at a time like this, prepare to splash into the old tub Randy.  Incidentally, i recall tha i took up to 6-7 BATHS in one night, so make sure you have plenty of dry towells on hand.  

It's funny what a little humor can do at a time like this.  I still remember Emily threatening to rent a plane and tow a sign all over Los Angeles saying, "Fred takes BATHS". Find some humor in your situation Randy if you can.  Laughing is another distraction.  Distractions of any kind can help during this time.

Take hope in knowing that others have done this thing Randy.  As much as possible, try not to look past the moment that you are in.    If you haven't already done so, click on Emily's picture, scroll down on her "profile page" on the left, and read all of her personal journal entires.  Post often and tell us how you aare doing.  

And when you get two days into this thing and are tempted to go back...think about the time you have invested at that point.  Because by that point, you will be half way through the acute withdrawal.  The hellish flu like sympoms and stabbing pains won't last forever Randy.  

Two final words to remember; HOPE & WAR.

When I found my way to this place, I didn't know people could actually stop taking this drug and survive it.   Like you, I had experienced a couple of days of withdrawal several times as I ran out of pills.  And I felt the withdrawal experience even when I was left to stretch those precious few pills until my next RX refill.  This won't be any easier and no worse than thos times Randy.  You just have to push through the experience and know that this too shall pass.

I  think that it is important for someone like you to have HOPE.  To believe that a power greater than YOU can get you through this.  When I found this forum, I saw that others had done what I was about to do, and that became my hope...my higher power.  

WAR:  You seem to have already taken on the mindset of doing battle with this drug.  I believe that when you read Emily's early journal entries (clicking on her picture, etc.) you will find a post included by someone named Cadillac Jack.  He showed me that I need to prepare mentally for this battle, much the same as a soldier must prepare for battle.  I was never in the military, but I got the picture.  Any amount of determination less than a declaration of all out WAR will be insufficient to defeat this evil drug.

Doing this now won't be any harder than next year at this time.  Time on the drug only tends to make withrawal more difficult.  So congratuatlions on determining to STOP now.  

Others will come along and add their insights and help.  Once you defeat this monster, you too may feel a debt of graditude
that you may want to repay to others coming along behind you.  Everyone is different.  Some will swear by this thing or that.  But ultimately, it's you and the drug.  I'm betting on YOU Randy.  

Courage and Strength,

Fred





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by bjb97, Apr 07, 2009
Hang in there Randy.  Fred is right about WAR.  This really is a battle, a very difficult battle, for most of us.  Many have gradually weaned off the Tramadol and had less severe withdrawal symptoms, but having the full-blown addictive personality that I have, I had doubts about the success I would have with that option.  Plus, by the time I realized what was happening to my body (I just stopped the Tram cold turkey because I was tired of taking it and didn't think it was doing anything.  I did not have a clue I was so dependent on it) when I stopped the tram, I was already 48 hours into the withdrawals and was NOT going back.

There are so many useful tools on here but coping techniques.  I was telling a close friend yesterday about how this site has saved me.  She looked at me a little unconvinced and in disbelief but I don't care.  People who aren't addicts don't even really get us to begin with but that's OK.  It's a good thing WE GET US -- unless we're in denial mode.

Now that most of my withdrawal is a week in the past -- PHEW! -- it is easy for me to say that I'm glad I went cold turkey and I WANT that awful, horrible, wouldn't-wish-it-on-anybody time to remain vivid in my brain because I never want to be tempted to touch a Tramadol again -- unless it is to shove it up the A$###### of some of these prescribing doctors touting its "Non-narcotic, non-addictive characteristics".

Go Fight the Battle and Win the War, Randy.

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by FinallyFred, Apr 07, 2009
bjb,  I am smiling at your comment about your telling a friend about how this site saved you and -  how she looked at you unconvinced and in disbelief.   I suspect she doesn't understand what it's like to be addicted to something like tramadol.  And it's not like we were walking around voicing our distress at taking this poison.  So, yeah, unless someone has been addicted to this stuff and tried to stop taking it themselves without a support group - I can only imagine the disbelief a friend may have.  

Pearls to the swine I say.

Have  a good day everyone.  Fred

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by EmilyPost, Apr 07, 2009
If only the Moral Majority Personality would shut up over here! Geez Man! So annoying! I wholeheartedly agree with everything you wrote Kev! That's exactly how I Validate my emotions.

For example, this weekend, I spent time cleaning out the room of Clutter. This room harbors a huge amount of my past, my pain, my drug use. It has clothes in it that remind me of how "things were." There's indicators in there that while I was on Tramadol (and klonopin) I was out of control with the shopping.  Seriously; I barely remember some of it. And it seemed so important at the time.

SO I was cleaning this room. Organizing and tossing. and as I was doing this the Moral Majority started to take root.

"You should have never taken any of these pills! Look at this! This is a HUGE unsolvable mess. Seriously, why didn't anyone stage an intervention! This room looks like a Crazy Bomb went off. You're probably Crazy. Only crazy people do stuff like this!"

Massive Judgement. Coupled with Benzo shakes and muscle pain and no sleep. As someone once said, no one dies from not sleeping. BUT ... yes, you may WANT TO! Exhausting. SO tiring. As if there wasn't already enough to deal with? So so so annoying.

So this morning after a horrible night of tossing and turning and listening to Dear Husband Snore ... which was making me crazy ... (Any noise wakes me up and then I have massive pain ... it's ridiculous!) ... I was laying there and this personality was blabbering on.  I finally got to the roots. Feelings of anger, sadness, loneliness, helplessness, and yes, resentment.

The weird part is that of course, I know the difference between "myself" and "My emotions" and this is like ... Faux Emotions. It's the brains reaction to being down dosed off the Klonopin. It's very ... chemically created in a lab.

I have such fleeting emotions at this point, it's kind of amusing. Authentic Self knows that all of the above is nonsense. But withdrawal me? No. Withdrawal me is very very uncomfortable. But the fact remains that YES it is time to slowly ease myself back into a space that is supposed to be peaceful and calm. It got very Chaotic in this room. And frankly my mind got very confused.

And Kev, there's no way that I believe the Doctors who told me I needed Surgery. Just coming off the Tramadol; I was PAIN FREE after awhile. That took a few months, and then of course I had another car accident. (Which still hasn't been dealt with) SO that reactivated alot of pain. But yes, I question everything because even now; even in the last stages (and I believe possibly the hardest stages of a Benzo withdrawal, I have LESS pain than I did when I was on ALL THOSE DRUGS. It's so crazy! But it is undeniably true.

I do believe that in another year, this will all be a distant memory. A very unpleasant (but useful) memory!

One thing about early withdrawal and yes, a Benzo taper (which mimics early withdrawal for a long time) is that it's not easy. If this were easy, people wouldn't be on drugs. ESP the "safe" Tramadol. The darling of the chronic pain world. There's so much Rationalizing going on in that community. I certainly NEVER heard that pills would make me worse. Give me MORE pain. Make me so so so much worse off. Time to Pay Up! I finally got Doctor Groovy to admit to me that pain pills were making my pain worse. That was right before I fired him for being "Unwilling to taper me off Klonopin." Fact is; he wanted the money. I represent a certain amount of CASH MONEY to him every month. DO you really believe that he's going to take me as a patient who wants to taper off Klonopin? I'm FURIOUS when I think about that office. I went in to taper. Did I EVER hear from him that Klonopin could be tapered slowly or how to do that? NO! I heard how safe it was. I heard various Egomaniac Rants about how it is the safest Benzo on the market. I had to be on Klonopin LONGER than I wanted to because I couldn't figure out how to taper. I had to get online and research. There was one visit where  told him that I had been online and he called that "Creating FEAR."

*Flips Dr. Groovy the Bird!* *Beats up his car!*

*Virtual; Stabba Stabba!*

And I'm not convinced at all that this man wasn't ON A BENZO. He was so .... off.

I see we have a new person (Hi Randy and Randy's Dad) ...who has been lied to about Tramadol withdrawal. Yes, there's a physical reaction with in a few hours of missing a dose. Dependence comes on very fast with Tramadol. And yes, withdrawal is much worse than "real Opiates."  Makes me so angry for people! These Doctors have no idea what a mess they are creating! These people are playing a Cavalier Game with Human Souls. There is no justifiable reason that I SHOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT TRAMADOL than someone with the power to hand it out like candy. There's no reason. I pay them to know what they are doing, Not to half ignore me and read a copy of Golf Magazine. It makes me sick. I have lost all respect for these people.

Yes, this substance has been moved into a higher schedule even here in the US in several states. We have Countries who consider it a controlled substance. It's a huge issue. We're harming people. It's NOT GOOD! Doctors keep people on this for years. I was on Tramadol for 4-5 years. I have no idea how long it really was. THAT should tell us something!

Love and healing,
Em

(((((bjb))))) You're helping everyone here by posting ,,, all of us are really ...

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by noodlegrl, Apr 07, 2009
Hello All,

Welcome to our little corner of the interwebs Randy :) You will find a wealth of information here. My biggest recommendation is things off of the Thomas Recipe Fred mentioned. Tapering + Thomas Recipe is how I rebuked the demon. I could not have CT'd. I have no patience but I also didn't want to feel like I was dying because I had to work all through my detox/WD's... so CT wasn't an option. But if you are already experiencing WD from CT I wouldn't turn back (not worth it to go through it again), I fortunately had an option. I agree with Fred about your father, he needs to be prepared for this fight. Is he reading these forums with you? I think it would do you both good to read together and prepare together. You and your Father are in my thoughts and prayers. Randy, and everyone else still on the Tram-o-train-wreck. Remember, its a daily battle and you CAN win the WAR!

Today is day 13! I could have sworn that I was on the same day as **, but I counted and counted and still come up with 13 :) Sooo, almost 2 weeks TRAM FREE!!! I am finally seeing the light. Had a small touch of anxiety this morning but it passed and I am pretty good now. I feel tired more than anything but that is to be expected. If the warm weather will ever get here I think I will be in good shape because I will finally be able to get outside. Finally started to eat again too! Yesterday was the first day in over a year I ate more than once, and I ate my 3 square meals and snacked on fruit and chips and had a bowl of cereal before bed! I know your not supposed to eat before bed but dang I have some weight to gain back. Sooo anyone out there still having a hard time, it gets better, and there for a few days I was very very skeptical.  

I am so thankful that I do not have cravings as Trams are readily available to me everyday (I did flush what I had left from my taper though). I think knowing I could get them at anytime helped strengthen my reserve for creating a new lifestyle. Knowing all it would take was just a call and it would be there, I had to pre-prepare myself for JUST SAY NO! So I built up my stock pile for my taper and then said No. No. No. Forever NO. If that makes any sense.

Kev, Thank you for clarification and examples on validating oneself. I am printing that out and keeping it with me. That is my #1 thing to work on next. Validating myself and others, especially my kids. Sometimes, I find myself invalidating their feelings to try to help them feel better, to hopefully make them realize that in the grand scheme of things some things don't matter, but I need to realize to them at the time it does matter and hopefully they will grow out of letting the small things bother them, but till then, they need to be validated. When you have been on a tram-o-train-wreck it is especially hard to think before speaking/reacting (darn the impatience of it all!) so this is going to be a task for me. But to be a better person, this is a top priority. I hope I can accomplish it as successfully as you seem to have. I am happy for you for that :) And happy you have shared your know how. Without you, Fred, and Emily's wisdom where would I be? I dunno, but I wouldnt be as well as I am (still a ways to go but positivity!)

Emily - Huggles and love and prayers heading your way. Hope you are having a good day today :)

I must end here for now!

Eternally Grateful!
~Noodle





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by 2Sue, Apr 07, 2009
hello, im 17 days, i think off tram,my pain is less, on cocodamol. im forgettful, but feel like ive got a bad flu, without the runny nose. ive walked along the rocks and beach today,running up and down sanddunes with my kids and nieaces and nephews. ITS BEEN WONDERFUL.wouldnt have considered it two weeks ago.

Now for Randy, ive come on here full of war tonight.WE got a call about an elderly aunt who is  in hospital with a broken wrist following a fall..She is 74, and has sciatica also,ive been in tears, she is a shadow of herself and looks very old.shes normally funny,witty, agile. mentally well..She tells us shes frightened,extremely anxious,feels like shes losing her mind,inactive,scared to be on her own,tearful, not eating,weeing,in extreme pain,the list goes on,,,,WHATS she on....Tramadol.She was giving it in january, taking it as and when sometimes 8 per day,she cant remember. she stopped it c/t. cause dr px dyhidrocodeine for excess pain and has been feeling worse..in hospital they have started her back on tram..she now takes tram, dyhydro,paracetamol and they are starting her tonight on an anxiety tablet....I just wanted to take her home but couldnt..she is all alone in there and they think shes just herself..
What do I do.? because I think she will understand I told her my experience of tram and that i didnt think she was going mad..but randy its a lot for a 74 year old to take in....however i did see a glimmer of something there .I kept telling her id help her get better.but like you, she haS TO WANT TO DO IT. and she will have to suffer worse than now, although shes already in a bad way...
But the doctors dont see this woman is in withdrawal and needs to be with someone and lots of care.... Ive talked to the nurse and she is getting doctor to ring me tomorrow, but what do i say.i dont feel a calm person right now.Im taking her info in tomorrow so she can read about tram herself.
Its one thing weaning yourself but helping someone else is a different ball game.
Tramadol seems to be the drug of choice here in england.thats three places this week ive seen it px,to vulnerable older people.
Continue all your good work everyone, a lot of what you are saying is over my head cause im new to this drug thing, and dont feel equipped to manage my aunt, although il have to try to help her.

Your words and insights are  very helpful.Like Randy any advice would be helpful,

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by FinallyFred, Apr 08, 2009
Kev,  I re-read your post on validation.  Here is my biggest take-a-way:  If I can identify why I am feeling a certain way, tell myself it's valid to feel a certain way, then  instead of blowing off those feelings that develop BECAUSE of the root causes of those feelings, I am validating.   Or in short, maing sure things don't build up.  

I especially could relate to your phrase, "If we are 'behind on our feelings' it may take time to catch up".   What I am seeing is that things we let fester - they tend to wind us too tightly.  Like an old fashioned spring clock.  

My great uncle made a 18" toy car for my dad, that my dad passed down to me.  It was built circa 1920, so it's rather "rough" by today's toy standards.  But the guy was a master craftman.  The car has a welded metal chassis and he tooled the round wooden wheels on a wood lathe he had out in his shop.  This thing is "powered" by a real life clock spring, which, when you release a gear, it unwinds and powers the car forward by way of a worm drive he put together.  As was the way in circa 1920, there is a crank on the front of the car, intended to tighten/wind up the clock spring.  And it has a little steering wheel connected to the front wheels, that a person (me) can turn the car with as it moves forward.  

Growing up, I used to play with this beast of a toy, but I had a tendancy to overwind the clock spring.  Because when I wound it really tightly, it would take longer time for it to catch up (unwind).  Yes, my dad warned me against winding it too tightly, but alas, I  broke the darned spring.  

At my "begging", dad took the toy car back to his great uncle to repair for us.  By that time, the old gentleman was probably 70 years old.  I'd ask my dad about my toy periodically, but old uncle Harold  had only one speed by that point in his life - and it wasn't fast.

I didn't see my toy tractor again for ten years - until after my great uncle died.  Shortly after he passed away, someone came upon the toy in his shop with my name on it.  As a young man, I finally got my toy car back, AND HE HAD REPAIRED IT BEFORE HE PASSED AWAY.

I could write more about that thing, but I suppose the points I am TRYING to make are these:  (1) like an old clock spring, if we keep cranking and cranking, our emotional springs could possibly sorta kinda break,  (2) if we haven't unwound our emotional springs in a while, as Kev said, it may take time to catch up, and (3) even a broken spring can be repaired, but (a) you may need to take it to the master craftsman,  (b) his time frame for fixing us, may be different than our own, and (c) sometimes in life, good surprises happy when we least erxpect them.

2Sue, your story with your grandma sounds awful.  It's a sad state of affairms when we feel like we mus "rescue" our lived ones FROM THE HOSPITAL in order to protect them.  My thoughts and best prayes are with you and your grandma.

Noodlegrl, OK, so I pulled my monitor up close enough to see that you dropped the "i" in your screen name.  You ,my dear are the poster grl (smile) for tapering and continuing to work while withdrawing!  As many have said her before, we each have our ways for defeating this demon drug, and your way certainly worked for you.  Which points top the fact that there is more than one way to defeat this drug.  CONGRATS on 13 days.  It gets nothing but easier and better going forward, (looking for the 4 font type here), unless you are ALSO trying to over come some other drug.  

Goodnight all,

Fred

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by FinallyFred, Apr 08, 2009
geez, sorry for all the typos in that last post.  :(

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by brian0801, Apr 08, 2009
I stopped  taking Tramadol 9 days ago and I dont have any cravinhs for it anymore but am suffering with SEVERE insomnia. I gave tried everything to help me sleep. Benadryl, tylenol pm, nyquil and those make me sleepy but cant fall asleep because of the anxiety and worst of all, that fluttery butterfly feeling in my stomach. I am 35 years old and physically fit but lack of sleep is affecting my job. Can anyone tell me when to expect this insomnia to subside? When I finally sleep, it is very hard to wake up. Hopefully, sleep will return to normal soon. But when? cant take much more of this.

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by KC67, Apr 08, 2009
Hi Brian,
I know what you are feeling.  Insomnia and anxiety were the worst withdrawal side effects for me.

The insomnia was pretty intense for me for about 22 days (I had to look bad in my journal to make sure).  

I know it seems like a long time, but the good news is that the insomnia lessened for me as I approached the 22 day mark.  In other words, I found myself sleeping for longer periods of time each night.  There was another guy on this post a while back who was still suffering from insomnia at 24 days.  I remember emailing him at 30 days and asking him if his sleep at gotten better and he reported that it did.

However, others on this forum reported that their insomnia subsided well before 24 days - so maybe you will fall into that category.  Either way, hang in there....it's tough, but each day you are getting one day closer to good sleep and getting this poison out of your body.

As for the butterflies and seemingly relentless anxiety....at Day 59, I still suffer from that, but then again, I am withdrawing from a benzo - so it could be the benzo withdrawal.  I am trying to learn to deal with the anxiety.  It's so hard because there is a part of my brain that is screaming, "You are CRAZY KC!  You need more meds!  You can't do this because you NEED to be on meds!"

I am fighting these voices.  I am not as good as Emily at distinguishing between the "drug (faux) voices" and the ones that are real.  Since I can't remember suffering from anxiety, insomnia, and all of these other crazy feelings BEFORE I took drugs, I am trusting people who have gone before me that these will go away with time.

Sincerely with hope and love,
kc

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by dontbelieve, Apr 08, 2009
howdy again all...its been a while.

I will try to read through some of the posts when I get a chance but lifes been a little hectic lately. I have been wanting to come back in and see hows everyone doing but I have actually been sleeping through the night lately which is when i usually have time to post.
I have been doing well all things considered, haven't had any craving for the tramadol and haven't even thought twice about ever injesting it again. Went through a little bout of the kidney stones for a while and of course the docs gave me vicoden...but am happy to report thats done and gone and the vicoden is too...it amazes me how much easier it is to get off vicoden a narcotic...than the " doctor approved to be safe and non addictive devil pill tramadol". I hate to wish bad things to happen to folks but I hope one day my doctor has a need to take tramadol...just so he has to go through the " withdrawls in his head..."
the ones that dont exist as he put it. I have switched doctors.

Havent had a baby boy yet...any day now...got the nursery all done in JOHN DEERE...(yeah we're rednecks)... just waiting for mama to say lets go...i swear everytime she twitches I grab my car keys and the baby bag...I CANT HANDLE THE PRESSURE!!  JUST COME OUT!!!!

heres a great suggestion to take your mind off withdrawls for an hour or two....put a stroller together. I was so damn mad I my whole body was twitchin not just the legs...I could probably go outside tear the engine in my truck down and rebuild it without instructions...but hand me a box with baby stroller parts in it and an instuction book?...it might have been easier to make it from scratch!..

Really though I hope everyone is doing well. Getting off the tramadol was one of the hardest things I have had to do and it sure made it alot easier to have people to talk to who understand what the day to day stuggle is like. I know this stuggle will continue and maybe some day if I let em those little voices in my head could say " hey lets make that pain go away again...just two little white pills!..." but i will remember not being able to sleep for 4 days straight...and using the cushion on the couch to bury my legs under to try to make the restless twitching legs stop. ( that doesnt work by the way my legs just twiched under the couch cushions) I dont know if I could do those withdrawls again. So I wanted to give a big thank you to this room for the understanding and the strength and listening to my many aimless ramblings. I could not be where I am now without your help.

For those of you who are new in here...you have found a great place. Great people.

I did read RandyQs message.....

RandyQ: Man you are in the same place i was in a few weeks ago. I actually recommended this pill to my 68 yr old mother for her back pain. Luckily I had a chance to tell her " DONT DO IT!!!" before she went to the doctor. I was in the same place out of my pills sometimes 3-4 days before my refill. At the time I had a friend who had the same stuff so If I ran out early and the withdrawls got too intense I could borrow a few to make it to refill day. I knew it was going to be a fight when I got the courage to go cold turkey off of tramadol but it had to be done. It seems you know what the withdrawls will be like...and just keep thinking this is the last time I have to go through them. The really hard part for me was the first week...I am a grumpy ******* when I am sick...I hate to sneeze or runny noses the worst so once I got through that part...the rest was easier. Its like the flu on steriods...and thats what i kept in my head. I have been sick before after a week or two i feel better...i dont like it.... but i tried to think of the withdrawls the same way...just another week and it will get better. Then for me kidney stones took over and all the sudden i didnt give a rats *** about any withdrawl anymore!...lol. I dont suggest trading withdrawls for kidney stones...they both really suck. Good luck with you and your dad. Its gonna be tough but just keep your head up and help your dad keep his up too. Another thing that made me feel great was after about a week...I too had refills available...I went into the pharmacy and told them to cancel my refills. I felt like I had power...if even for that minute...it felt great.

I will try to come around a little more often but with mama ready to deliver any time now its hard to say from day to day.

Talk to you later friends,

The Hillbilly....

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by KC67, Apr 08, 2009
Hey Hillbilly!
Glad you are back!
LOL at the stroller example - so true!
You have been missd.


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by bjb97, Apr 08, 2009
Brian -- Sorry to hear about your insomnia.  It is really the worst, espcially when coupled with restless legs.  The line from Hillbilly about wanted to bury your legs under the sofa cushion rings sooooooooo true.  I am now on Day 13 -- lucky 13 -- and had been sleeping at least 6 hours every night for the past week but had a bad night again last night.  I'm not quite sure.  I slept a total of 4 hours (3 at one time and then another lone hour).  I had restless legs during a lot of my waking hours.

I know no one dies from lack of sleep but it sure seems to take a toll on your mind and body especially after being short sleep for several days in a row.  You get so vulnerable.  I've been taking a low dose of Trazedone which is an antidepressant/sleep aid that was prescribed for me 12 years ago in alcohol rehab.  Prior to my Tram withdrawal I was only taking 1/2 pill on occasion when I couldn't sleep (which wasn't very often considering I could sleep for 10+ hours a night on the Great Tramadol).  I've been taking one a night since going cold turkey from Tram and sometimes that doesn't even work.

I hope to get off Trazedone totally once my sleep patterns are restored.

Hang in there.  Things WILL get better.  YOU WILL get better.

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by noodlegrl, Apr 08, 2009
Day 14 (2 whoooooole weeks)

Awww, thanks KC. Everyday I feel a little different, sometimes different good, sometimes different indifferent, sometimes different not so good, lol. But yes, this thing is as good as beat as far as I am concerned! Hallelujah! And all of you can do the same! (Tries to not count all the chickens before they've hatched, proceed cautiously for fear of random WD/DT symptoms and PAWS!)

This morning, had some abdominal wall cramps, like when I was pregnant if I slept on my back for too long. Not sure if it was related to withdrawals or not. They have subsided now. Mild anxiousness upon waking also. Took 1 L-Theanine and now I feel ok for the most part, but feels like my pre-tram nervous jitters. I can deal though as long as I don't get overwhelmed by something. In which case I will put into action the "Validation Method" :) Sooo glad its hump day.

Hillbilly - LOL @ the stroller example!! Hiyas and glad to meet ya! Congrats on baby boy :) Sooo happy you are beating Tram before you baby comes, now you will be able to experience the miracle fog-free :) What a blessing!

Sue - I am sorry to hear about your Aunt. That is terrible. Doctors and their damn invalidating excuses. I get more and more upset and angry every time I hear about a doctor saying its all in your head. You feel what you feel and even if it WAS all in your head, who cares, you still feel it and they can't say otherwise because they ARE NOT YOU!!! Infuriating... I mean, I kinda get where doctors come from - WHEN someone is trying to GET a medication they may not NEED, but when you are trying to come OFF a medication that is making you feel horrible its like WTH they should take you seriously because you know your own body much better than they do regardless (in these instances of tram-poison and the like). Regardless of all that, probably the best thing you can do for your aunt, is listen, be supportive. You know what its like to go through WD's, try some things on your aunt that worked for you or that you feel like you needed during your rough time.

Fred - awww! What a great story. That brought tears to my eyes. Reminded me of my grandfather. (Oh, and there wasn't ever an "i" in my screenname lest I be going more insane than I thought, hehe, not that it matters though; you spell it however you like!)

** - So sorry about your off night - I pray one doesn't sneak up on me!

Brian - insomnia very common symptom - I had it early in taper to some extent - Unfortunately I can't suggest anything that you haven't already tried. Time is the best healer. The more time between you and tram the better you will get. I keep reading that you can't die from sleep deprivation - I have read things that say you can, I have read things that say no, but why risk it? Your body DOES need rest to maintain proper function, if you go days without sleep you should really contact your doctor.

I also keep thinking about and referring back to Kevs post regarding validation - I KNOW I am going to need to play catch up on emotions. Some of my feelings I am scared I am not going to be able to successfully validate. I would try to explain but its very complicated and hard to put into words that make sense =P I am not sure they are able to be validated as they may be more selfish than anything. *sigh* I have got to really learn how to put into action the Serenity Prayer/Self Validation. I can go through the steps Kev explained but how do I get myself to listen?? How insane this sounds...

Anyhoosy... I hope I didn't leave anyone out of my post.

Good Luck to all! Thinking and praying for everyone!

~Noodle

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by noodlegrl, Apr 08, 2009
!!

the two stars like ** is supposed to be B.  J.  lol I am not trying to be dirty >.<

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by bodegirl, Apr 08, 2009
Hey all!  

Fred, Kev, Emily, Noodle, bjb, KC, and all the other tram warriors-I love your posts!  Very very cool.  It makes me really think about things other than immediate physical w/d symptoms.  Like emotions(and validating them) and the reason I took trams in the first place which was to mask emotions and live off the fake, crazy energy it gave me.  What was I masking and why?  Things I need to think about for long term recovery. How will I cope in the future?  Validating emotions, I need to learn to do that!  You all are so insightful and smart(not to mention FUNNY-we all need to laugh once in a while!).  

I'm now at day 39 tram free-yay(I can't believe it!!) I find myself playing with my kids again(really playing and focussed on them), I am calm, I am treating my body well with good food and exercise.  It feels great.  I even had a heart to heart with my husband(which I never normally do) who really gave it to me about how I've behaved the last couple of years.  It was brutal-I felt like a teenager getting in trouble with my dad-weird, I know.  I hated hearing what he thought.  I cried and cried and apologized-it was so unbelievably painful, I can't even describe it.  But I let myself feel it.  It was like all the truth came out and I finally SAW what I was like on tramadol-a wreckless, self absorbed, tramafogged person who could have lost everything. It was exhausting!  I have an amazing life and I couldn't see it on tram!!  It's crazy how clear things have become.  Some painful, some beautiful and some in between.  It's CLARITY, I guess.  

I did start taking neurontin again after I saw 3 different doctors who reassured me that neurontin has been a positive med for me and it has nothing to do with tramadol, meaning it is not a narcotic(for REAL) it is safe(for REAL)and it helps my anxiety and sleep.  It is also not metabolized by the liver which is good.  I guess I feel guilty taking any med-I feel like its a crutch.  Do you guys feel taking meds(besides tram) are OK?  Or do you all feel that taking any meds are a crutch?  I will NEVER take tramadol again as it almost ruined my life as I spiraled out of control.  I just need reassurance.  I feel guilty and scared of any drugs at this point, but feel that neurontin helps in a positive way.  Any thoughts?

Anyway, wishing everyone much support and best wishes.  Sleep will come back and things do get bettter with time-Noodle you are definately right about that.  Time time time.  It took about a month for me, but others have felt good after 10 days, so everyone is different, but you WILL get better and better with time-promise.  

Thinking of you all.
xo bode

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by madtram, Apr 08, 2009
Bode, the following is totally my own philosophy & I offer it only as a response to your question about taking Neurontin.  I believe that nature is wonderful but far from perfect.  Ergo, in the same way that some are born without the genes necessary to produce insulin, others are predisposed to deficiencies in certain neurotransmitters which can then be exacerbated by life's circumstances.

While few would hesitate to take supplementary insulin when required, taking any form of psychoactive medication is still seen by many as morally suspect or inferior to the natural state.  These beliefs are strengthened by the problem that brain science is still in its relative infancy so that many psychoactive meds are still somewhat experimental in that we can never be sure how a given individual will respond.

However, there is now enough known about some classes of meds that we can conclude that all drugs discovered to date acting on opiate receptors, (including the dreaded T), have tolerance as a side effect which means that they are generally not viable for long term use.  Drugs acting on dopamine receptors, (cocaine; meth etc) are worse in that the dopamine receptors are susceptible to burnout whereas opiate receptors seem to recover in time.  All substances which significantly effect dopamine, (including opiates & opioids) seem to carry a risk of psychological addiction.  This is probably because dopamine is such a primal neurotransmitter which evolved to ensure our cave forebears would be motivated to carry out the many arduous tasks required to maintain their survival.

Anti-seizure meds like Neurontin acting on GABA receptors have a good history of long term use without evidence of permanent changes to brain chemistry.   Neurontin seems to be a med that either suits people from the outset & can be taken for years, or people have too many side effects very early on.   So if you are responding well to it, I would continue your trial. Other than l-theanine, there are no natural remedies which can directly boost GABA & l-theanine is only one precursor which means its effects are very subtle.  There's no point in taking GABA itself as it does not cross the blood brain barrier.

It seems that most of are interested in improving our brain health by non chemical means such as validation of feelings; cognitive behaviour therapy & meditation etc, & these are all guaranteed to be free of side effects. However, in spite of our best efforts & intentions, life often gets in the way of these practices & we need some extra help, particularly if we have an existing predisposition to anxiety or depression.

So Bode, a very long winded way of saying that if a non-addictive medication  frees you up to get on with the business of living, I wouldn't regard it as a weakness just because  it acts on the brain rather than the pancreas.

Noodle, I so agree with your observation that it is very Alice in Wonderland, not to mention patronising, for doctors to dispute your desire to cease medication due to intolerable side effects.  It reminds me of the Monty Python skit about the Norwegian Blue, deceased parrot, (Kev might get this reference).

Hillbilly, loved the stroller story too, as an expert insomniac, at least you won't be woken up when baby has his night feeds, (if only men were physically equipped, seems like a waste of good insomnia).   But seriously, good sleep is probably just around the corner & if you can assemble a stroller on no sleep, you will be unstoppable once sleep returns.

Emily, I hope you are getting some relief from your k-suffering, if I was in charge, I would declare that you have more than served your time.   Safest benzo, huh?   Hmmm, in Australia we have some safer sharks but that doesn't mean that they won't attack in the right circumstances.

Happy Easter hols to those having them.

M


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by FinallyFred, Apr 09, 2009
Bode,  Concerning neuronton, you said, "(my doctor said) (1)  it has nothing to do with tramadol, meaning it is not a narcotic(for REAL) (2) it is safe(for REAL) and (3)  it helps my anxiety and sleep.  (4) It is also not metabolized by the liver which is good.  (5) I guess I feel guilty taking any med-I feel like its a crutch.  (6) Do you guys feel taking meds(besides tram) are OK?  (7) Or do you all feel that taking any meds are a crutch?"

(1) AGREE, (2) AGREE, (3) AGREE, though not sure about the anxiety angle, (4) GOOD, (5) Don't feel guilty, (6) see madtram's response, and (7) Silly girl!  


This isn't an ENDORSEMENT for neurontin,   The following views reflect ONLY MY OWN EXPERIENCE.  I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on TV.  I haven't shared on this before but since you asked Bode...

It's funny ...I was actually JUST corresponding with someone else today on the subject of  neurontin aka gabapentin BEFORE reading EITHER your post or Michelle's recently.   I'm a believer in the drug.  In short, I have been taking this drug -  not for anxiety or depression, but my doctor prescribed it to relieve  the stabbing pain/RLS I continued to experience long past that first week of acute withdrawal from trams.  I take a relatively small dose, 900 - 1200 mgs/day.  I seem to recall that the maximum daily dose is something like 3600/day.  Each pill is 300 mgs.  But do your own research.

Here's the longer version of how I came by this drug:  About a month BEFORE I arrived here, I changed doctors after my old doc retired.  I had never ordered trams online, so I knew I needed to develop a relationship with the new doctor - to keep the trams flowing.  The new doctor  looked at my chart and saw that I had been on 400 mgs (8pills) of trams/day for a long time...her jaw dropped and she said, "oh my".  Not the words I was hoping for at the time.  I was hoping she would kick me up to 10-12 trams a day at the time.  Oh boy.

She told me that I needed to at least REDUCE the amout of trams I was taking/day and she prescribed gabapentin, which I assumed was another weak painkiller to substitute as I reduced my tramadol.  I wasn't having ANY part of either reducing my trams OR exploring why she had prescribed gabapentin at that time.  So I put the damned gabapentin in a drawer and never even looked at them again until after I started withdrawing from the trams.  You'd never believe this of me, but  I sent her an email accusing her of forgetting her hippocratic oath in the two weeks she had been practicing medicine. I accused her of harming me.  Little did I know at the time that she had actually helped me greatly.  Another of life's coincidences.

Fast forward to a month later - to early December , 08, when I had decided enough was enough with the tram-a-go-round.  By the time I was at about day 2-3, you KNOW how I was feeling, right?  I was looking all over for anything to relieve my symptoms.  And I went on line to see what this mystery drug was that the good doctor had prescribed for me.  I found that one of the OFF LABEL uses for  neurontin /gabapentin was it's ability to reduce neuropathy in the extremities/RLS.  Bingo.

I want to say that the good doctor had prescribed about 2 pills a day, 30 day supply and I started taking them at once.  (thanks doc!).  Immediately, I discovered that the stabbing pains I was having in my feet were greatly reduced.  And my sleep issue greatly improved.  I sort of ran out of the pills as my insurance changed at the 1st of the year and I was thinking I was so far along (30-45 days out), that I didn't need the the gabapentin  any longer.  I had no adverse (withdrawal) affects when they ran out...except that my RLS returned.  And at that point, my sleeplessness also returned.

Went in to (another) new doctor (new insurance) about the 1st of February, who put me on my current 3-4 tabs a day of gabapentin/. neurontin.  I tolerate them well, I seem to have no adverse side affects, I don't crave them, but they have eliminated my RLS/stabbing pains.  

Of course, who knows how long I will take these things.    But based on my limited experience, while I cannot ENDORSE this drug foreveryone Bode, it has been a godsend for me.  

Hillbilly, welcome home man.  

Michelle, as always, your knowlege and insight is so appreciated.  

Goodnight everyone...Fred

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by bodegirl, Apr 09, 2009
Madtram and Fred,
Thank you for your responses!!  I feel better about it.  For me, neurontin is very helpful at a low dose and with doctors approval, I will continue, at least for now.  

More importantly, after 40 days being tram free, I feel very little to no symptoms of w/d.  I struggled with extremely low energy and some depresion(along with a bunch of other horrendous symptoms) for abut 31 days and that is almost totally gone.  I feel about 90% myself again.  I want this to give those in early withdrawal some hope that things will greatly improve very soon-possibly sooner than they did for me.  I take melatonin for sleep and that seems to really help as well.  

I hope everyone has  good day.
:-) bode


  

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by dontbelieve, Apr 09, 2009
Howdy all...

So right this minute i am driving my cat insane...its hilarious!.. I have this 12yr old cat that loves Round Table chicken wings...i mean she knows what the box looks like and she comes running when she sees it...she loves chicken. So i got the urge to cook up some chicken wings i got from Schwan's and she can't figure out where the smell is coming from but she knows there is chicken in the house. she is literally running around the house looking for the round table box...and every once in a while she runs to the kitchen...then its almost like she thinks..." no!!...dad doesnt cook!?!..." and runs out. SHE NEEDS HER CHICKEN WINGS!!! Its kinda like any other addiction I suppose....

I guess in this case I am the Doctor. I know the chicken wings are bad for my cat...especially the round table ones...but I get a deal if I buy so many chicken wings I get a certian percentage off of my chicken wings and pizza next time...i dont really want the chicken wings but I really love pizza and I could get a deal! Now that would make my cat the patient. She wants food. She needs to make her hunger go away. So much so that she comes to me and says " hey what will make my hunger go away?" So I tell her well i have these wonderful chicken wings that are completely harmless and they will make your hunger disappear. A week later the cat comes back to me and sure enough the chicken wings did make the hunger disappear! but now shes hungry again and wants more wings...so I keep giving her the wings...all the while I am getting the 3.00 off pizza, a free delivery and extra toppings. as the months and years even wear on i decide that the cat is getting fat. So I stop getting chicken wings...if I need the free toppings and 3.00 off pizza I can always get another cat and start that one on the wings...but for now no more wings!...I tell the cat you will have to start eating normal cat food and it might not fill you up all the way but you'll adjust...so the cat freaks out...i cant just take the wings away?!!? maybe less wings??? A different kind of sauce?! something! just dont take my wings away!!! But I have made my decision...no more wings for the cat. 2 days later the cat comes to me again in real bad shape...twitching and feeling depressed hungry and unable to sleep. I tell the cat no you are not hungry, its all in your head. You are probably just addicted mentally to chicken wings and think you need them but you really don't. Heck I probably should have never given you chicken wings to start off with but I really liked having that 3.00 off pizza and extra toppings. Would I ever admit to the cat I knew it was bad for her...well maybe in a year or so someone will come out with a study but for now...i will just find another cat to give the wings to...after all I make the decisions and can change the rules when I want and as for the cat well she will just have to deal with the aftermath.

so here I am making chicken wings...yeah I gave the cat a couple. Its like a once every 3 month thing I have done with my cat since she was young. None of my other animals get human food only her shes the oldest and she rules the house.

The funny thing was about 20 minutes before I made the wings she was eating her food and was probably full...until she smelled the wings and thats what really got me thinking of this whole thing...I know i have been there. Not really in pain...but one of my friends had a little pill or two and all the sudden I started to "feel the pain".

This is the cycle we have to break. I still have pain in my neck every day...I could very easliy find myself saying to myself "yeah I am still in pain I need something to deal with that pain..." but for now I am content to be in pain. I lived with tramadol for 2 years non stop and a while before that off and on. Tramafog...wow i never even realized it. now being off meds for a couple of weeks and tramadol for almost 2 months...I am starting to remember I did have a life before all this. When I met my wife I was off any medication for almost 2 yrs. When I was in my 20's I didnt even know these meds existed. I am ready to get that life back. Not just for me. Thats the man my wife wanted to marry. Thats the guy my son has the right to know. Thats the guy I can barely remember myself and I want to get to know again. I try not to even think about all the times I have sat at home or in the garage watching tv when I could have been doing things I really like to do. I was always an outdoors guy. I hated being in the house. But tramadol helped me limit myself to the boring tv life. Like Emily has said countless times...it made the pain worse...this little white demon made me feel pain i should have never felt.

For those of you that are new here or even just occasional readers....its a battle well worth the fight. Its not easy and theres really no way to make it easy...but be prepared mentally to fight for your life back. I have never been addicted to anthing other than this but I have been around addicts all my life. I have had to physically restrain my brother...I actually tackled him in the yard and hog tied him when he was going through the worst of the herion. Me and my best friend held his brother in law in the back of a pickup kicking and screaming for about 10 miles on the way to a rehab clinic.But neither of them wanted it. This is something you have to want and be ready to give up. Like many others in here I am feeling better every day. I would like to think I will never take tramadol again...and at this point i dont crave it at all....but its still lurking in my head.

well thats my rambling for the night...crazy hillbilly. Now i feel bad for getting my cat addicted to chicken wings.

take care all...

The Hillbilly

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by noodlegrl, Apr 09, 2009
Day 15 - Still feeling the way I have last few days, not normal but not a basket case either. It feels like my energy is "stunted". It rose to a certain degree and stopped. I can physically get accomplished anything I NEED (want to is a different story) to but most certainly could not run a marathon =P Wait, I couldn't do that before tram. Hopefully though you see my point :)

Bode - Happy to see you! Glad you are doing better :) I was worried about you. I know exactly what you mean about being afraid and feeling guilty about taking other medications. It seems coming off of tram creates a desire for lifestyle changes. And I also agree with M and Fred, they are smart :)

I am a pack rat. I hate throwing anything out because I feel one day I may want to look back at something and not have it and be sad :( This is not good. I have decided to go through all my "junk" and let go of my past, the stuff tram helped me to numb. I think this will be good therapy. Emily gave me the idea with her junk room shopping story :)

Thoughts and prayers to everyone. Hope everyone has a WONDERFUL tram FREE day :)

~Noodle

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by 2Sue, Apr 09, 2009
hi, thanks for all your kind words with my aunt, i left literature on nurses desk for them to read.and also give it to my aunt.she said 'Susan ive got all the trams thay give me in my handbag.sh.' lol. go there aunty.lol.thats the spirit.She looks a whole lot better today and even put her makeup on..
Noodle im just ahead of you in my days.due to run great north run this year.its my goal, my mind is willing, the bodies a different matter.lol.
and .im feeling much better,cant believe my pain has radically reduced..im doing more physically each day,and clearerheaded..I had a very dry mouth yesterday and drank loads.my memory is still shot.Does this last.and how long will i suffer odd side effects for....
im taking fish oils,vit b12, vit c and zinc.daily, as suggested by some of you.sorry im terrible with remembering names,but you know who you are...thanks to you all.im almost back to normal.with just the odd s.e.ive mentioned.  would be feeling a lot worse without this site.

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by EmilyPost, Apr 09, 2009
Well. I'm still alive and I can type and think in words. Hooray!?

Yesterday I think was possibly the worst day I have had yet during this taper. It get harder as I am lower and lower and closer and closer to being off, over and out DONE-SO with pills ... so close! It's annoying and ironic that this gets so much worse as you cut down to practically nothing. Let's face it' .06 mg of Klonopin is tiny! But wow; that's some scary scary symptomitology! I swear I was laying in bed writhing thinking, "I can feel my hair turning gray!"

"Healing Symptoms," My Gluteus Maximus!

So I didn't sleep the night before last. I mean tremendous pain and agony of defeat! I've developed a fear of sleeping? And certainly a healthy respect for working with no sleep! Oh man! I worked 11 hours on almost no sleep. It was horrid! Everything hurt, and then I decided the next day to try Unisom. And guess what!? It was terrible! Either the reaction of my body was allergic or ... I was just doomed to have a day of DOOM! I couldn't function. I literally could barely walk. It was terrible. And nothing literally NOTHING helped. I have many tricks and NOTHING worked. Typical of Benzos really.

The only thing that helps seems to help is time.

The worst part may be that you WANT to cry; because it is painful and horrible but you can't! It makes me laugh now what will make me cry. Music or someone will tell a story and I'll cry and cry. But ... if I want to cry . no. Nadda. Not a single tear! BOO!

And then as night came; "POP" I was ok. But exhausted from pain. And the darkness of these thoughts is unreal. I completely understand now why people flip out and lose it during a Benzo taper. Or worse; Cold Turkey. You aren't supposed to cold turkey Benzos or you could have a seizure and die. But my taper has been very controlled. Not as slow as some. Because I was already in Tolerance. It doesn't really make sense in Tolerance to do a super slow, slow taper.

So yeah, just say NO to Benzos. Geez man. That was SCARY! I couldn't even think clearly enough to write HELP ME! LOL!

Sue I am delighted that you great auntie got it, and hid the Tramadol! Nice work on her part! I like her spirit alot! Tramadol is terrible! No one knows how long exactly the Tramadol side effects last. But they will go away, slowly!

Noodle yes I understand! I understand wanting to keep things "just in case ..." In my case, the disorganization of the room reflects my state of mind when I was on every pill known to man, with TRAMADOL being the worst of them, in my opinion. Clearing stuff out and decluttering is very emotional for me. It brings up alot of feeling of abandonment. WHcih is something I don't even like to talk about. However, I realized just recently that I HAVE ABANDONED plenty of people in my own life! This revelation was ... very harsh and unwelcome and yes ... annoying but it is true.

So, working my way back into a reasonable state in the clutter room will take time. I can't do too much, or it wipes the floor with me.

((((Hillbilly!))) You returned! Hi! SO glad you are back! Yes, I understand the cat versus the chicken wing story. You write, "Heck I probably should have never given you chicken wings to start off with but I really liked having that 3.00 off pizza and extra toppings. Would I ever admit to the cat I knew it was bad for her...well maybe in a year or so someone will come out with a study but for now...i will just find another cat to give the wings to...after all I make the decisions and can change the rules when I want and as for the cat well she will just have to deal with the aftermath."

Exactly!

I have to say I feel VERY much as if the Doctors I saw where completely unconcerned about what would happen if i were to say ... GET BETTER and no longer need pills. They seem very adept at getting people hooked and it's a shame.

Bode, oh yes, if there was a pill I could take to help me thru this; I'd take it. Make no mistake. If a person has a broken leg, they NEED a crutch. Crutches get a bad reputation in my opinion. I take Propranonol which is a Beta Blocker as needed for klonopin withdrawal. The thing about Klonopin and Benzos is that they eventually cause a ton of problems. The do the opposite of what they are supposed to do. Like; they CAUSE Anxiety. They CAUSE depression. They Cause Sleeplessness. They pop the wheels off your car when you are doing 80 miles per hour on the freeway. It's Big Bad Medicine.

Propranonol used as needed (and I haven't needed it every day) will drop my blood pressure and heart rate if I have a Klonopin Related Withdrawal Panic attack. The fact is, the slow taper supposedly allows your GABA to reestablish normal activity. The whole time though you go thru withdrawal.

Which is why people sty on these medications forever. Doctors are very interested in keeping you medicated. At least the ones I have met are!

So, yes, I am all for anything that will help someone off a bad drug with less agony.

Ahhh MadTram! I'd appreciate it if the taper/withdrawal was over, close sooo close. I hope NEVER ever ever to have a day as painful as yesterday was though. I can only hope that was the klonopin gasping for breath and that was the final death blow! I feel weak today, but I can work and think and drive and "function."

Hi there Fred! I actually can imagine you writing a furious letter to your Doc! I thought about doing that so many times! Still kind of amusing ... :D

Love and healing,
Emily


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by brian0801, Apr 09, 2009
Wanted to check back and let everyone know what I have concocted. This may not work for everyone,but it is working for me. First,lots and lots of bottled water and green tea. Now to the supplements. Get a multivitamin. Also take B6 100 vitamins to help your brain with seratonin and help metabolism. Take it in the morning with L-Tyrosine to help it absorb. Also, buy some Glutamine powder and take 5 grams a day with water. It helps to repair damage to the stomach. If you work out( recommend), take it immediately after your workout. also, drink chammomile tea before bed to calm your nerves. These vitamins are pretty inexpensive and should cost less than a 100 bucks. Hope this helps someone.

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by noodlegrl, Apr 10, 2009
Day 16 - Mild anxiety upon waking, think I was having a bad dream though, but can't remember it. Not a good start though - someone drink the last of the milk and I didn't have any for my morning coffee that I usually require right when I wake up and then there wasn't enough hot water for me to shower properly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So.. yes.. morning got off to a very bad start, it made me cry!!! Which made me feel better but the cry didn't last near long enough. I need to get it out. Anything SAD or HAPPY makes me WANT to CRY but I CAN'T!! Like Emily. I talked to my husband about it yesterday and he just said "Weird". LoL. But hopefully the few tears shed this morning is a good sign that a good cry is to come.

Wow Emily - You read my mind... I have a fear of abandonment as well (very deep rooted emotional agony, I think it stems from my mom dying when I was 4, I don't think I was handled properly during that time - something I need to work on validating and letting go of so I can heal)... and as I was de-cluttering I realized the same thing... all the people who have come and gone through my life, most of then I have essentially "abandoned". And some really great friends too, true friends, I just stopped calling... I started isolating myself at 17 when I got pregnant (not with that ********* anymore) and I did the exact thing I fear people doing to me... just let them go, tried to forget, and now I have only my husband and kids, literally. How I had enough social skills left to bag my awesome hubby is beyond me. And now, I don't know if I would know how to be friends with anyone else. I am realizing I am more messed up in the head than I thought I was. Tram numbed it and made me not think of such deeeep things, but I have begun overanalyzing things again. I plan to work on  my social skills when I am totally out of the fog, when I don't have to feel guilty for having a dirty little secret.

Brian - you've got a nice regimen going :) How well are you? :) Hope your super! Chamomile tea is awesome. I have been drinking it this week. I even drink it during the day sometimes, like Monday and yesterday. Its yummy with honey :)

Sue - yay auntie!!! Stash those devil pills and flush them when no one is looking!! Woo hoo!! Love it :)

I have a lot I want to try to accomplish today so I better get to it!

Hope everyone has a wonderful day!

~Noodle

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by bodegirl, Apr 10, 2009
Hey everyone,
Hope you are all hanging in there.

Noodle:  I have a lot of similar feelings as you.  My father died when I was 8, I had no idea what or why it happened(he was sick for 2 years but nobody told me he would die and there were no goodbyes)and I never cried about it-I think I was in shock, maybe I still am?  Later in my 20's, I started isolating myself, stopped connecting with good friends, even best friends.  Whenever a boyfriend started "liking" me too much, I was out, scram!  Abandon them before getting abondoned myself....weird.  I think I hurt a lot of people by doing that.  Not sure how I stayed with my husband....but I have this fear of him abondoning me. And also seem to NEED his approval (which I rarely get).  Crazy stuff. What's up with that???  I wish I could just have more self confidence and not need anyone's approval, just know that I'm "good" and that's all that matters.  

Another thing is I can't seem to get rid of the guilt and shame for not only taking the rat poison tramadol for so long, in an illicit way, but for the selfish and wreckless behavior for the 3 years that I was taking that poison.  How do you move forward?  How do you rid yourself of shame and guilt?  I can't seem to get away from it and it weighs an awful lot.

Thank you again, Fred, Michelle, Emily and Noodle for your thoughts on taking medications after detoxing from trams.    I wanted to clarify that neurontin is used for nerve pain and is an anti-siezure medication, but has many other off label uses(ie:mood stabilizer/anti-anxiety).  I have no side effects when taking this medication and it does seem to help with anxiety/sleep issues for me.

Anyway, thank you for your input-I feel less anxious and guilty about taking a med.  Noodle you're right though: when I stopped taking tramadol, I also stopped the neurontin because I was pregnant and I thought, I'll never take ANY medication again, lifestyle change, no drugs, no crutches!!.  But I realized that nothing's so black and white.  Tramadol was a very dangerous and crazy drug to take and there is no gray area there for me.  But, that's not the case with EVERY drug, right?  More importantly for me is focussing on good healthy lifestyle, including exercise, healthy food and fun with friends and family-no isolating or at least LESS of it.  Baby steps...

I have been drinking lots of camomille tea(with honey)-it's my new fave.  It does seem to be very soothing, especially at night.  Highly recommend!

Hillbilly, I love your cat/chicken wing metaphor-very cool!

I'm thinking of everyone and want to wish you a Happy Easter to those who celebrate.  

Best wishes,
xo bode



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by bjb97, Apr 10, 2009
Day 15 for me.  After having two bad night of insomnia and restless legs I was able to get 9 restful hours last night.  I think my body was just exhausted and finally gave in.  I did by some Hylands for Restful Legs medicine and took that right before sleeping.  I feel much more normal today and worked out which was very good for my mind and body.  

I also got a referral from my new doc and went to a Pain Management clinic on Monday.  The physician there thinks I am a great candidate for epidural steroid injections in my C5 nerve root to help or even totally alleviate the pain.  He said I might not have even needed my surgery last December if I would have explored this option first.  $2000 out of pocket and 2,960 Tramadol pills later . . . . Oh well, if this even gives me a little relief from the pain I've been feeling for the past 25 years, I will be overjoyed.  My pain stems from an old injury relating to another drug which I'm clean from also (12 years sober), namely alcohol.  One night in my 30's while staying in a hotel with some girl friends and having partied most of the day and night, I thought I could do a back flip from one hotel bed onto the other.  I couldn't even do a back flip when I was 18 and sober!  Yikes.  Anyway, needless to say, I failed horribly at the task and landed on my head.  When I saw my doc 3 years ago before my 1st surgery on my neck, she said the X-ray looked like my neck had been broken when the initial injury occurred.  So I was walking around in severe pain and possibly a broken neck!  Yikes -- scary stuff.

Anyway, I hope these series of 3 injections one week apart help.  I got my first yesterday and he said it would be 2-3 days before I feel any better and it might not happen until after the 2nd injection.

Sorry about all of your suffering Emily.  I hope the end is near where you can write "I had the best day of my life today!"  You deserve it.

Thanks everyone for sharing.  What a great place this is!

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by EmilyPost, Apr 10, 2009
((((Noodle!)))) Yep. Well since I hate talking about Abandonment, and since I am at work on a break, let's talk.

First, yes I have abandoned people. I do it ... almost unconsciously. It has taken me a very long time to realize that I am doing this to people, and not the other way around so much. I almost feel that it's a kind of Preemptive Strike. Shock and Awe. I do it before they can? Does that make any sense?

When I really think about forgiveness, I think that my mind ... goes to "Forgive and FORGET."  I don't believe Forgiveness and FORGETFULNESS has much to do with "moving on." "Let it Go." These are all little sayings that when I stop to think about it, make me pause.

Your Mom died at 4? Honey that is so sad. And naturally it makes more sense that you would have a hard time parting with "stuff." I totally get it. I understand how that must feel, though I have never been in your shoes. My Mom was so emotionally unavailable that I remember telling people in my teens (when it's all black and white) that I felt like an Orphan. Although; technically I wasn't. My parents were very busy being ... trapped in dysfunction. Certain with my Father dead at 51; no one can dispute the facts.

So abandonment and the deeply broken heart that results is so familiar to me. I know that I was quite small when the first cracks formed in my heart.

There's so much anger and pain in my body right now. I had to call my assistant this morning and tell her NOT TO COME TO WORK. Why? Cause I got a message from her at 8:15 am saying she had overslept and she'd be here at the Office soon. It wasn't a frantic message. I decided she was slacking. Maybe incorrectly ... I mean I am in a Benzo withdrawal and RAGE is very common! It made me Incredibly Angry. Now; to a certain extent that's a natural reaction. I'm working my *** off, trying to stay afloat and if the people who work closely with me don't care enough to show up on time, it gets me to thinking that I'm working this hard for nothing. I work hard to protect my own job, the people who are my customers and frankly, the people who work FOR me ... need a job. And make no mistake, this is a good job. But the level of rage isn't a level I am comfortable with. The big thing today will be to do paperwork and NOT be around people. Because ... I'm like a TICKING BOMB right now and ... it's no good Noodle! No! Wrong! Not Good! But there it is ... to make sure I do not HARM anyone I better stay away from the other humans.

So for the last few weeks, this girl has been slacking. I need to speak to her, and Noodle, it should have been done A LONG TIME Ago. But I can't speak to anyone when I am this angry. I would ... overpower her. It would be an inappropriate level of anger to direct at a 19 year old receptionist. I do like her, but her Mother specifically has disabled her in too many ways for me to count.

She's spoiled. She's also MEDICATED and has been since she was in grade school. This girl and both her sisters have had MANY pills for many years. We're talking about being medicated with many many many pills. And remember, pills disable development! I have seen my own development halted due to pills. She's got a purse full of pills. And she's 19 ... which means ... she also DRINKS.

She has two youonger sisters. They are also drugged. There's Buspar, meds for ADD, Meds for Anxiety, and most recently I watched her mother FORCE her to take another antidepressant and end her to work. Of course, this girl had an etremely bad rection.

The result? All these girls have been in Special Ed since they first started school. Here in California, they have all been classified as "special needs," and they have a councilor who 'works with them' one on one ... This person follows the, class to class. Which means, she never got any unfiltered social interaction. It's ... really scary.

So the result is that they are all disabled. And frankly, in my opinion, none of them needs medication. They need their Mother. The Mother? She seems very interested in a cut and dried diagnosis for every single one of her kids?

Ok so every morning they line up and take a handful of pills.

Does anyone else think that that's crazy? Does anyone else know about the connection between ADD and Ritolin and kids going psychotic?

They talk alot about emotional abuse. There was physical abuse in their house as well. I am no stranger to abuse of all kinds. So; it's hard to watch. It's not her fault. She was too young to do much about it. And now; she's a 19 year old girl in body only. She's about as mature as a 10-13 year old. It's hard to watch and it took me a very long time to put it all together!

So, that's a long rambling way of saying ... yes ... I understand abandonment of all kinds of levels and ... it hurts. It hurts me that I was abandoned so young. It hurts me so much that my little heart can barely stand it. Yes; Emotional Anguish is right!

And as to being unable to cry; it's scary to me. Last night at about 1am I was finally able to cry while watching a movie. And yes, I would have liked to cry more. But the withdrawal is strong. It influences everything. So until I get a little bit better, I have to really limit my interactions with people. I don't want to harm anyone. And ... I don't want to get involved in any major decision that change the course of my life right now There's enough time for that later.

Anyhow, many ramblings from me today ...

Love and healing!
Em


(((Bode))) Yes, the need for approval from others is so strong. I actually see myself picking people who are IMPOSSIBLE to please in order to perpetuate the cycle. I am aware of it. Which I think is the first step. The hardest person to please and not abandon is myself. I have to always remember not to abandon myself, and to do things that help me be pleased with myself. I don't really have answers. But; I can see the problems there! Which I think is good!


((((bjb))))

:D



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by kim715, Apr 10, 2009
Bump for outotown.

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by kevzx81, Apr 11, 2009
Emily-Noodle-Im so grateful that you shared the abandonment stuff. My mother committed
suicide when I was 12wks old.
I share the pre-emptive strike cycle too. Thanks to your revealing your anguish I can see
whats been hiding behind the emotional layers Ive been validating. Ive never had an
opportunity to discuss this before with anyone who knows what it truly feels like.

Truly such young hearts should never receive such wounds. These are the depths of sadness
that make us want to 'turn away'.

Emily-Noodle-kev-I cry for us.No wonder we were drawn to validation like moths to a flame.

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by FinallyFred, Apr 11, 2009
Where are all the boys?

Noodle, I'm still snickering at your attempt to write to bjb the other day, using her first two initials only.  BUSTED by MedHelp!  
It's odd that you can say some things here and not others.  (I'm tempted to spray out a string and see what is allowed,  you *** ******* ***** and  **********  ****** **** hole.  Maybe they'll allow *********  rat *******.   (smile)

Seriously though, I think you have an understandable reason to have a fear of abandonment in light of your mom dying at a young age.  Maybe Kev's  "theory of validation" would be just the ticket?  

As far as "being friends with anyone else" besides our immediate familes...  hmmmm, my opinion is that if we are working and also have a family, we really don't have a great deal of energy left at the end of the day to go out and be all that social.  I am close to my cousin and a few other men, but it's not like most of us are in high school Dorothy.  But I draw a great deal of satisfaction in the "social" department", by just making a point of being kind to strangers I encounter in my day.  Customers, clerks at the store, waiters, etc.  

But I know all too well about isolating.  Between the booze that I kicked after daily drinking for years, followed by the tram haze, I developed some pretty anti-social behavior there.   During that time, at the end of every work day, I figured that it was my time to "vacate" or isolate from the world.  Not healthy though for me.

Bode, guilt and shame for past actions?  I understand those feelings big time. For me, those feelings had more to do with my drinking days than with the tramadol haze.  I would do lovely things like put our boys to bed early, just so I could get a jump on my drinking.  And when my boys became young adults and they would come by for dinner, I couldn't wait to shuffle them out the door immediately after dinner, so I could get down to serious drinking for the evening.  They will be over Saturday night and they are welcome to stay all night as far as I am concerned now.   Yes, I have spent my share of nights laying awake with guilt and shame over the way I acted in the past.  

Even if we sincerely ask for another's forgiveness, it's difficult to "forget it".  The "forgetting" part is tough sometimes.  What I think eventually began to dawn on me  (after many talks with Mrs. Fred) , was that my inability for "forget" events of the past and to forgive myself, was making it nearly  impossible to live in the present.  I simply HAD to engage in the "survival skill" of forgiving myself, even if someone else wasn't forgiving me.  And of course we really have ABSOLUTELY no control over the other person(s). In AA they have an expression of "taking care of my side of the street".

Which brings me to share a new version of the serenity prayer, that  I heard last week:  

God grant me the serenity to ACCEPT the PERSON I cannot change,
The courage to change the ONE I can,
And the wisdom to know that ONE is me.

BJB, Glad to hear you are sleeping again.  A back flip from one bed to another and landing on your head?  You are darned lucky you weren't paralyzed kiddo.  Good luck with the injections.  It's certainly worth a try.  (((heart)))

Emily, How did you exert such self control as to tell that "girl" to take the day off?  Sounds like you did her an extreme favor considering...

Want to talk about Mothers?  Mine always placed such high expectations on me growing up, that to this day, I feel like I must keep the "imperfect" parts of me a secret from her.  And she seems to have gotten more and more critical as she has gotten older.  I'm a grown man for goodness sake and she is 86 years old.  Still, to this day when I ring the bell at her house, I never know whether she will criticise me for being overweight or too thin.  

I was taking a deposition today in Olympia, we were on a  break and my phone rang, so I answered it.  (it was mom and she wanted me to come right over to help her with some tax forms her accountant had sent back to her to sign).

So even though I was the person asking the questions today at the deposition, when mom called, all I could muster was, "yes mother, I will be over first thing in the morning to take a look at this for you".    Does anyone else here have this sort of love/hate relationship with a parent?

Movies that make you cry?  Anybody have any good nominations?  I started crying with Old Yeller, and then at "The graduate", when Dustin Hoffman - busted into the church to resue the bride.  Sitting in the back of that bus?  And I will cry at just about any other movie involving animals getting lost/hurt or at the any of the silliest romantic flicks where love overcomes adversity in the end.  I'm a sapsucker really.  But one movie that was "cricially aclaimed", but which did nothing for me, was the Curious Case of Benjamen Button.  That thing was so contrived.  And way to long for my butt in the theater.  

Anyone see "The Visitor"?    It was quirky, not overly tearful for old Fred, but worth watching for my money.  

It's the weekend...yay!  

Fred

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by FinallyFred, Apr 11, 2009
Kev,  I just read your post.  You are such a wonderful sensative man Kev.

We came her for help with our tramadol addiction.   Who would have thunk all of the things we would reveal and find common bonding over?  

(((hugs))) Kev,  Fred


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by outotown, Apr 11, 2009
Im new to the tram, posting ive had a bad addiction to pain meds in the past I was injured real bad at work in 04 went into deep depression, tried to commit suicide, got on sub. and been clean for just over a month. I had r/rotor cuff surgery, c5-c6 replaced I still have 2 herinated disc in mid back, I diclocated my l/shoulder, and even tho im clean im in alot of pain and headed for more surgery on back and maybe another on my neck. Now my question my Dr gave me tram. ive never taken tram without being on oxy or perc's I have nerve pain now and dont know if tram. will make me high and if it does not get you high do you still get addicted, and if your not addicted do you still have w/d? I have to have some relief from pain, and I have been taken way to much Mortrin. ANY SUGGESTIONS!!!

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by oxfinx, Apr 11, 2009
well fred, you are the only one who ever commented on any of my post's and actually commented on my page. well, reading everyone's post back at the end of January inspired me but i felt alone because of the lack of response. however, like i said i was inspired. finally came D-day when i let the pills run out. i even went to my pharmacist and argued with them that i didn't want to be allowed to refill the script again, did you know that they cannot legally withhold your script just because you ask? i thought i was being courageous but he thought i was an a--. in any event i was mad enough not to go back there and too lazy (or determined) to set up with a new pharmacist so i inevitably ended up not refilling my 240 count as well as my other drugs. i had it in with the doctors for lying to me about the reality of tramadol and just adding more drugs on top of it. getting back to the point before i go on a 8000 word post about my experiences leading up to D-day, i did it. cold turkey. spent my 9 days suffering in bed before i felt alright to do anything. spent about the next 3 weeks forcing myself to get through the days telling myself one day it would get better. oh man it was hell. well, on day 36 it was like a rebirth for me. i woke up, and for the first time in forever i felt so good i actually was able to take my kids to the park and play with them for almost an hour and a half. since then i cant say i have felt quite as good for quite as long but 4 of the last 6 days have been better than the last high time i had on tramadol. i even quit smoking cigarettes 18 days ago cold turkey as well, and today will be day 43 without tramadol. i have an appointment to see my surgeon who told me he wouldn't do surgery unless i came off the tramadol, so i wouldn't go through withdraw in the hospital during recovery (should last three weeks), and in three days we are scheduling the surgery date. anyways, i logged back into this account, searched tramadol, posted to a few people who had questions about tramadol withdraw, maybe it will help them and each time i refreshed my profile page is kept seeing your note welcoming me and told me to keep in touch. well thanks for doing that, and I'm touching back with you to say thanks. it's hard without the euphoric little pill to physically feel great but at least i feel fantastic mentally like i haven't in, well i cant even remember this feeling. HA, i could go on and on but i wont. just doing my part with a THANK YOU, for you doing your part in giving me that little reminder. and to each who wrote the post that inspired me, thank you as well. God Bless!

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by bjb97, Apr 11, 2009
Fred -- your past history, Tram and esp alcohol use sounds so similar to mine.  I too, became such a sneaky drinker, i.e. going up to the bar when out with friends and instead of just ordering a beer, did two shots while up at the bar with no one watching except the bartender.  When I told my friends I was going into rehab, they were shocked and a couple of them questioned my admission that I needed help saying "Are you sure Becky?  You don't act like you have a drinking problem".  But when my drinking got really bad, I isolated and would get totally wasted alone at home.  I was very fortunate in the fact that I never drove after drinking more than 2 beers -- which is why I drank a lot at home.  I haven't been to AA for several years.  I think I told you I just am uncomfortable with the format of having to talk in front of all those people and then . . . . . silence.  It bothers me a lot.  And I'm an actress . . . you'd think I would love that.

As far as feeling guilt over choosing alcohol over your children, Fred, you need to get over that and just be the best Dad and grandpa that you can moving forward.  Don't beat yourself up -- it's negative energy wasted when you could be thinking about and planning fun times to share with your family TODAY!

I love the revised Serenity Prayer -- thanks for sharing.

People with Abandonment Issues -- I'm so empathetic.  I grew up in a fairly normal (if that exists) home with two loving and supportive parents so I can only imagine how difficult your childhoods much have been.



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by bjb97, Apr 11, 2009
Oxfinx -- Wow -- you are a very strong and resilient individual.  Sounds like you weathered a very bad storm with Tramadol withdrawal.  You have to be so incredibly proud and empowered by that.  And then to quit smoking on top of it.  Man, you should be nominated for the Recovering Addict Poster Child.

Kudos, Kudos, Kudos!!!!!  Keep posting and encouraring folks here.  Your story is truly inspirational.  And I think encouraging others serves the purpose of mutual benefit -- you're helping others AND reminding yourself of who you are and where you've been.  I NEVER want to forget the restless legs, sleepless nights, sweating, abdominal cramps and pain I have endured during these past few weeks off the Evil Tramadol.

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by KC67, Apr 11, 2009
OxFinx - Way to go on kicking the Trams!  Your story is such an inspiration.  We all love stories with happy endings and it helps to keep us all off the Trams when we are reminded that life is so much BETTER without them.  Thank you for sharing.

Kev, Emily, bjb, Noodle, Fred, Bode - (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Huge hugs to all of you))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) - I can relate to all of your stories and struggles with life - whether it be the need to abandon and isloate before it is done to you, or the need to numb the feelings with a substance.  You all are like a little family for me - in many ways more "normal" than my real family.  I am grateful for all of you and the encouragement and honesty you provide.

OutoTown - If you read through the posts on this journal, you will find that almost everyone here had a VERY negative experience with Trams.  They are addictive - no matter what the doctors say - and they ARE hard to withdraw from.  Also, many people on this site will tell you that their pain got WORSE with the Trams.  In my case, my lower back pain was constant while on the Trams and now that I am 60+ days free, I have little-to-no pain.  Trams also cause neuropathy - so my advice to you since you have nerve damage is to STAY AWAY from this addictive drug.  

I am so sorry you are suffering and in so much pain.  I think Emily has some knowledge on nerve pain and the best way to deal with it - I know she used a lot of ice packs and is feeling much less pain now.  Also, Fred and Bode - isn't the neurontin good for nerve damage?  I don't want to steer you into yet another drug - it sounds like you have been through a lot.  I just want to encourage you and let you know that many people on this site have successfully been able to manage their chronic pain.  The body and the brain is an amazing thing - it has the ability to heal itself - it just takes time.  Don't lose hope Outotown.

PriceIsWright - are you still out there?  Miss seeing your posts.

Sincerely with hope and love,
kc

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by FinallyFred, Apr 11, 2009
Oxfinx,  Congratulations on your success(es) and it is SO good that you came back to let us know how you did it.  Quite a story.  I do hope that you will consider returning to encourage the newcomers here.  There are no paid professionals offering us the way out you know...just one ordinary person helping another ordinary person.  Offering hope that the possibility exists to bear this terible drug.

Outotown,  I agree with KC, run from this drug while there may still be time.  It's done no favors to me.  Two things are certain with taking this drug, (1) you will become develop tolerance so that the same dose in time will not produce the affects you got and (2) withdrawal symptoms are a certainty when you stop taking this drug.  It will take more and more of you in time and give you less and less in return.  In time, you will need to take some astomonically DANGEROUS  # of pills/day OR YOU WILL FEEL unwell.

BJB,  Thanks for your concern about the guilt over past actions.  Actually, I FINALLY figured that one out some years ago and except for a randon night, for the most part, I know that BEATING MYSELF UP OVER SOMETHING i DID OR DID NOT DO YEARS AGO IS UNPRODUCTIVE (AND UNHEALTHY.)  Tonight my sons and their families will be over and these are always such good times.

Yes, I pretty much drank at home; myself too and I did a pretty good job of hiding my drinking (so I thought) from family (except immediate), friends, co-workers, etc.  I figured that if I "managed" to secure all the wind that I needed for the week, in advance, so I didn't ever need to drink and drive, my life was "amageable".  CRAZY.   One hallmark of just about every addition is the desire to keep our addiction a secret.  If nobody else knows our secret then our lives are not unmanageable, right?  (wrong).

KC and Emily, I am saying little prayers for each of you right now.  

I love this time of year.  The promise of Spring get's me through many dark Winters.  So many spring time flowers in bloom in the yard.  How wonderful is it that  dead appearing, dorment bulbs can know to spring ALIVE year after year, to display their splendor at this time each Spring?   My wife likes to cut them and bring em inside.  Our house looks like a florist shop at the moment.  

May the miracle of new life - spring up TODAY in each person's heart and mind  who reads this post.

Fred

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by priceiswright, Apr 11, 2009
I haven't yet had the chance to read through all the posts since I last got on here about 2 weeks ago. I wanted to say hello and tell everyone hi and that I am still good and strong with no trams. I haven't been counting the days but it should be around 60 or so....each day gets easier. I will check in with all soon.

I've been dealing with the end of an engagement so I haven't had much time to log on and give love to everyone but wow, the tools of recovery do apply to a broken heart also and I learned those tools from all of you. So thank you.

And take it from someone who knows, the tram battle is the most worthy battle I've ever fought. Keep fighting friends.

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by priceiswright, Apr 11, 2009
WEIGHT GAIN AFTER TRAMADOL:

I'm trying to catch up on everyone's posts but I just read one of noodle's post that hit a cord with me. When I was taking trams, I was tiny! And yes, people accused me of being anorexic and my family was concerned. HOWEVER, I feel really yucky about my body lately. I've gained A LOT of weight since quitting and I just wanted to see how people deal with this. I am so used to not having to worry about weight gain due to the tram addiction that now I don't know how to get my self healthy. I KNOW eating well and exercise but just wondering if anyone had any similar experiences with weight gain and how you deal/dealt with it.

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by priceiswright, Apr 11, 2009

FRED, EMILY, KEV, KC (and likely others I am missing)

I've probabaly said this to you before but I want to say it again Thank You. Thank you for being selfless. Thank you for coming here to support everyone. I've been in and out of these forums since the 2nd week in Jan and I've seen many come and go, few stay (not there is anything wrong with not staying). However, I am truly in awe of how amazing and selfless you have been in helping others......

I have a song for you.

You've been so kind and generous, I don't know how you keep on giving
For your kindness I'm in debt to you
For your selflessness, my admiration
For everything you've done, you know I'm bound, I'm bound to
thank you for it....

You've been so kind and generous, I don't know how you keep on giving
For your kindness I'm in debt to you
And I never could have come this far without you
For everything you've done, you know I'm bound, I'm bound to
thank you for it....

Oh, I want to thank you for so many gifts you gave with love and tenderness,
I wanna thank you
I want to thank you for your generosity, the love and the honesty that you gave me
I want to thank you, show my gratitude, my love and my respect for you,
I wanna thank you

Oh I want to thank you, thank you, thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you...

EMILY - thank you for starting this forum and SAVING my life. You have saved thousands of lives. I agree with KC. You should be the next guest on Oprah. Your soul and heart are amazing.



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by KC67, Apr 12, 2009
Great to hear from you, Price!  Glad you are still going strong!

The song was perfect and echos my sentiments about everyone on this forum as well.  Did you write it?  

Happy Easter to all!
KC

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by KC67, Apr 12, 2009
Oh, and by the way, yes - I have gained 8 lbs since quitting Trams.  For some reason, my appetite kicked into overdrive around day 12 cold turkey and has been on full-throttle ever since.  :o(


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by priceiswright, Apr 12, 2009
KC67 - no I didn't write that song; it is a song by Natalie Merchant called Kind & Generous. Sorry to hear you are still going through the benzo taper. Yuck. I am tapering myself off Zoloft right now. I am sick of prescription meds. Trying to move on to natural goods......speaking of that, are you still talking the DLPA? Did it help you in anyway?

Even though I've been going through the end of an engagement and a bunch of other **** that goes along with that, I've found that I'm using my benzos MUCH less than before. I prob take about .25 xanax twice a week. I haven't kicked the ambien yet, but hopefully in a few months I can. The only thing that ***** is that I am gaining tons of weight because I've been around family who are feeding me. LOL. My first heart break I lost like 10lbs because I couldn't eat, this one seems to be the opposite!

Also, as I mentioned before my ex-fiance had used the trams on and off and he was the one who ordered them off the web, which made me realize I could do this. Of course I'm not blaming my addiction on him because he didn't have a problem with them. However, he did use other drugs recreationally, like maryjane and we used to enjoy taking opiates/pain killers together in the old days....so really it's been a lot easier to stay off trams and kick my opiate cravings because I'm no longer around him. I am looking forward to a fresh start.

I love reading all the newcomers stories. It's quite inspiring to see so many people who've kicked this addiction. When I first started reading these boards, I thought I would NEVER EVER be able to get through it. But I did and my life is so much better for it. I keep laughing still my stomach hurts and I'm enjoying being around people and doing things. Life is so much more beautiful than it used to be. I am so thankful I was able to get off this stuff thanks to this board! (and of course I always will give a special shout out to Fred  and Emily who continually inspire me and everyone else - they are my heroes!)

Hugs to all!

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by KC67, Apr 12, 2009
Price - yes!  I just You-Tubed the song and i recognized it - although it didn't ring a bell when I read the lyrics you posted (above).  Great song!  Thank you for posting it.

So sorry you are going through a difficult time ending an engagement along with other ****.  It sounds (from your post) that you are still going strong and are doing somewhat "okay".  I hope so.  ((((hugs to you)))))

I truly wished we all lived in the same community so we could all meet for coffee once per week.  I think I would enjoy conversing with ALL of you and getting to know you.  Maybe one day....a EP Reunion Group will form and schedule a meeting time and place and whomever shows up will get some great Seattle "Cowboy Coffee" (compliments of Fred) and a beautiful beach view (compliments of a West Coast beach).

Thanks Fred, for your prayers.  Yesterday I was completely "shelled" with benzo withdrawals (depression, anxiety, feelings of hopelessness), but today I have a blessed Easter "window" of normalcy.  Time...time...time... it is the only thing that will get me closer to my old self.  

Blessings to all you!  You have no idea how much your stories help me!
Sincerely,
kc


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by bodegirl, Apr 12, 2009
Hi Price,
I have gained weight after quitting trams too.  Though I was pregnant for 30 days during withdrawal so I kind of gave myself permission to eat whatever I wanted and alot of it.  I was ravenous!  I was considered dangerously thin while on trams too, my family and friends told me I looked "anorexic" and unwell(which I was!), so some weight gain was neccesary, but I am now about 10lbs over what I am comfortable with.  I'm not used to having any extra weigt on me and I am sooooooooo uncomfortable with it!

I think our bodies go through so much after quitting the evil drug, that it takes time to stabilize and get to where its comfortable and "normal" again.  We have to re-train our brains to let us know when we should eat and when we are full.  On trams I was NEVER hungry and now I have to contend with feeling hungry all the time!

One thing that has helped(and always has) is exercise.  I run about 5 miles every day(now that I am past the worst of w/d's and the miscarriage) and my body is responding well and so is my mind-not to mention that my dogs come with me and love it too!  I'm losing the pregnancy weight and am getting back to where I am healthy and comfortable with my body.  It's a slow process but exercise and self awareness have been key.

I hope that helps..

KC and Emily, I'm thinking of you. ((((big hugs)))) Time.

Fred, Noodle, Kev, KC, Emily, bjb, price, michelle,  and everyone else in this community, I am wishing you well and thinking of you.  Thank you for sharing and encouraging us.  I too(like KC) wish we could all meet for coffee, I would love to meet you all in person.  I feel like this is a little family of such different and beautiful people that have come together to save eachother.  And you all have saved me. (((((hugs to all)))))

Thank you and good night.

:-) bode

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by Denim185, Apr 12, 2009
Hi all, new here, I'm off trams a week yesterday. I've been pretty depressed is that normal and if so how long about does it last? Thanks so much.

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by EmilyPost, Apr 12, 2009
Hi Denim and Everyone!

It's very norml Denim to be depressed coming off Tramadol. It won't last much longer, it comes and goes. Your body and brain have to detox and thne you'll be much much happier!

I remember being off Tramadol for a week ... I was stil ill and now? I'm not!

I'll be back! I have I hink decided that I'll only be on Klonopin another three days! Holy Moly! It's the last to go. No more drugs after that. I'll be all sober and non drugged. :D Hooray!

Totally laughed about "Mrs. Fred," No idea why ... it hit my Funny Bone. It'd be kinda like "Mister Emily!" ahhahahaaa

Love to all!
Em

PS. Kev sending you hugs and many good So Cal Vibes. I'm so glad you told us! (((((Kev))))

I wish you all could have been here today with me And Mister Emily for Easter ... it was extraordinarily Beautiful and we probably had enough freakin food for everyone!

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by Shadetree, Apr 13, 2009
Hello everyone...

It has been a long time since my last post, I have been reading everyday tho. I am almost done with my taper, it has been slow but I should be totally off in a week or two. I had a few set backs, but never lost my objective. All of you are so wonderful, especially Emily, Kev, Fred, Kc, Price, the ones that have stayed around to help everyone else that comes here for support. That is very admirable of you all.

Price ~ You hit a cord with the weightgain...I fear that very much. So much that I am trying to change my whole diet in hopes I dont gain that much. I have lost about 10 lbs, I was not happy about that at all at first. Now I have pretty much gotten used to it, bought  new clothes to fit and all.  So I am trying to eat right and work out on the regular.... We'll see... Did your come on very fast? Have you lost any of it?

I am gettin very anxious to hav my labido back, Some one else mentioned this but they were talking about men. It happens in women too. My husband is starting to wonder what is going on with me.....But it slowly starting to return.

I have to admit, there has been times during my taper when I thought, I cant do this...I dont want to do this. I like it to much, I like gettin up in the morning and being in a great mood & having tons of energy right of the bat. I feel like I can do anything, get soooo much done. Nothin bad would ever phase me, because it didnt matter, I had tramadol to take.... But that is never where it stopped, I would always take more and more and more.... until I was in fear of passing out.

I know this is no way to live. I hate always wanting to be altered...ya know? Its like I cant just be happy being healthy and happy on my own accord, I always want something else to make me "feel good"

I want to be that way on my own, without being drugged. I want to remember my children through these young years, and if I keep takin the poison, I wont. I want to be healthy & addicted to working out and eating right, like I once was. And I am sure I will be that way again, my addictions seem to skip from one thing to another. It could be sex for a while, then working out and being healthy, then smoking weed, then....well you get the picture. I am wondering if I have a chemical imbalance that I need to get under control....Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Well I hav rambled enough.... :)

Talk to everyone soon....

~Shade

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by FinallyFred, Apr 13, 2009
Shade,  It was nice to read your recent post.  I don't have any "answers" to the questions about "why" it is that some people (like me too) tend to tend to get addicted to anything we do or try.  The "substance" could be innocent enough too, like excercise or drinking water.  I too tend to be an all or nothing sort of person.  

Yesterday, I helped my youngest son install as screen door on his house.  There is one thing that is not "right" about the installation, and it will bother me until I have the time to go back and solve the problem.  

Bode, your comment about running 5 miles a day reminded me of myself until 10 years ago.  I used to run 4-5 miles every day.  And now I don't run at all.

When somebody figures why it is that some people (like us) are so intense, so passionate, so energetic, so driven, and yes, at the same time so adpt to get addicted to everything we try in life, let me know too.  

Have a good day all.

Fred

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by noodlegrl, Apr 13, 2009
Day 19

Greetings Everyone and special new hellos to outotown and oxfinx!

Sorry I can't get on MH on weekends and whew what a weekend it was... Had to leave work early again Friday and thought I was about to get blown away by a tornado... one was "spotted" less than a quarter mile from where I was stuck in traffic being beat to smithereens by hail... I was like "Oh Lord here I am finally getting well and trying to be a better person and I'm going to die in a tornado, great". I continue to have death and fear of death thoughts... a lot.

Today, I don't really have any symptoms. I ate like I haven't ever eaten this weekend. I bet I gained a few pounds. But that is ok. It has to be. I went soooo long not being hungry and losing weight that I am excited to be happy about food again and not so excited about the weight gain (internal war - to gain or not to gain - good and bad), like Price. You figure.. how long did we go eating as little as possible because the devil drug made us not hungry?! A long time. It will take our bodies time to adjust to getting more nutrients and fats, etc. Probably the best way to balance it out is exercise. I dunno if that makes sense. I stand on both sides of the weight gain fence. My husband would love if I packed on at least 15lbs =P I am his first tiny person (hes been with many more people than I as he is 10+ yrs older), LOL.

Emily - sorry to continue on something you don't like to speak of - you didn't have to if you didn't want to or didn't feel comfortable with it - I, however, am finding clarity in things I bring to the front - hoping some of this will continue to sink in and allow me to work on my next problems.

You all have touched on things I would like to expound on but I am finding it difficult to time manage today. I need to get some work finished and will try to post when I get some free time this afternoon (if I do).

Good day to all Tram-Warriors!

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by priceiswright, Apr 13, 2009
Shade,

I am exactly like what you described. I have the same fears as you and often wonder why I can't just be happy, energetic, etc... without wanting to have some type of substance in me. Why do I get so addicted? Why must everything be perfect? I, like Fred, am addicted to a few things. One being chapstick, I must always have it with me. Two being water, if I don't have a bottle of water with me, I freak out. I'm sure there are quite a few other things in which I could be described as an addict......but I still can't figure out why some people are and some people aren't.

I do know one thing Shade. That getting off tramadol is the BEST thing you will EVER do for YOURSELF. I have not been so happy in years. I haven't smiled or laughed this hard in years. I forgot what it was like to feel, to see beauty, to appreciate, to love life and to look forward to each day without even thinking of taking a tram to get me through it. You will be so much better for this and you should be proud. It's not easy to quit but it can be done and on this board, we have constant reminders of that.

As far as the weight gain, I have gained between 13 - 17 lbs. Yuck!! I am trying to eat healthy but I am HUNGRY and I'm not used to being hungry. When I was on trams, I would have one meal a day AT MOST. Often sometimes only a snack. I was NEVER hungry. Now, I feel like I'm always hungry.......I'm just having to control my urges and eat right. I'm not a big exerciser but I do go walking quite often. Plus, since it's bikini season soon and being newly single, I feel even more pushed to get in shape :)

Keep fighting. It's the best fight you'll ever win

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by 1113, Apr 13, 2009
Hi all,

some of you old timers will remember me, but for everybody i have been reading the boards pretty much everday except weekends ( i don't like to be on the computer at home b/c that's all I do all day at work)  and I want to say great job.

well an update for me.  I have had a small set back.  originaly i was taking 6 a day, and had tappered all the way down to under 1 a day, but for the last 3 weeks i have been taking 3 a day.  My mind gave me every reason in the book and i finally agreed with one of them.  so anyways i am starting to drop down my dosages again this week, and I hope to finish this time.


this have been a long battle but it is not over.  Everyday that I have taken 3 trams has not been fun, b/c i hated myself every minute of it.   i will be back on tomorrow to talk about my plans, but in the mean time...

later peeps

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by noodlegrl, Apr 13, 2009
1113 - Hiyas! I am sooo sorry for your set back. That ***** a big one. You should post with us more regularly. I know that posting regularly kept me on track because of all the encouragement and inspiration these wonderful people give. Its like a NA meeting on the interwebs. Can't wait to hear about your plans. Although everyone is different my little regiment surely helped me out even though at the time I thought I was going insane, the hindsight is I have seen so many (here included) that suffered way worse so I am so grateful my plan worked as well as it did.

And again - so many points I want to touch on but today is not a web friendly day here at work. Maybe in a little while or tomorrow. So sorry!

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by noodlegrl, Apr 13, 2009
PS to Emily - sorry for continuing a conversation you weren't comfortable with.

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by oxfinx, Apr 13, 2009
well today was the day that everything fell together. when i set out to win the war with the tram monster i did not realize all the daemons that followed. in my now  45th day the surgeon even agreed, today, i have overcome and am ready, i will get the call this week with a date within the second two weeks of may to have the posterior spinal fusion i have waited for for over 3 years. he even ordered the 7 studies i need to have it done. i never in my life thought i would become addicted to anything because i think of myself as having a very powerful grip on my mental state. however when tram tricked me into believing, even when im sure i knew i didn't but didn't want to believe i didn't, it turned into a physical addiction that was OK because i wasn't mentally addicted. it took a doctor that didn't even know me and on the first visit call me an addict, to prompt me to prove him wrong. well you know what, we were both wrong in the end and both right. i was addicted and didn't believe it so i WAS an addict, but i didn't choose to be so i was only addicted but not an addict. now, looking back, i wrote the other day all the scripts i was on and was in amazement how many drugs i had become dependent on just to make it. and it only took 2 years to get there. here is the list of what i was on, and keep in mind i am 5ft. 9in. 120lbs. and only now after 45 days clean do i realize how bad off i was and how MUCH BETTER OFF I AM NOW.
start off with my favorite, the tram, min 400mg,max 600mg. add some ultracet, don't remember dosage but took usually 4. vicoprofen 7.5/200 if i remember the ibu. right but i added another 2400mg of the ibuprofen. 4 to 6 lortab 10. now the boring stuff, HA! 6-10mg zanaflex, 40mg flexeril, and finally the beginning of my sleepless nights, methadone started at 5mg then doubled. all this daily and almost religiously. not to count all the supplements and vitamins. after admitting (only after quitting) to my wife that i opened bottles to add to what she set up in my boxes did it really hit me that i REALLY DID have a PROBLEM. she didn't like it but didn't know about "all" the extras and since the doc said i needed it,we both thought it was just the way it had to be, witch made it "OK". besides, at least that way i could still remodel and build houses. as much as i push myself to be a perfectionist at anything i do, especially not letting the customer down and making them happy, i have to make people happy, i cant be unless they are, i never thought about me making myself happy. instead, i was making everyone who didn't really matter except as a dollar or pride figure happy and all those who really mattered (FAMILY) dislike who i had become. the rage, uncontrollable moods, thoughts, behaviors. i didn't even like me. but you know what, it took 8 years to admit i needed help, IE... medicine to get me through, 2 years to destroy who i was and what i dreamed for kids and family, and 45 days to finally have guilt, remorse, a fresh mind, a new perception. i am now someone who i don't know. and it might sound funny but i like that, at least my kids are young, they don't hold things against me. but i do, and i know those grudges are at that guy who used to live here. i kicked him out and now there is a new boss in the house. and this one i think my kids and wife like better. if i didn't have a wife and kids who accept me for the good i "can" be i don't know who id be. if it wasn't for the doctor who made accusations of me i wouldn't have sought answers. and if it wasn't for god putting the link to these post's in my search i wouldn't have had the answers. and if it wasn't for your posts i have no answers to have received. again, like i "MUST" include in all my posts (even if not many)

THANK YOU!

maybe i have to keep saying it because i don't know if i ever will feel like i have gotten my point across.

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by FinallyFred, Apr 14, 2009
Oxfin,  Congratulations on your continuing success and for scheduling your fusion moving forward.  I have a question for you, "what's your plan for using pain killers after surgery?"    I only ask because I didn't have a plan for this BEFORE I went in for my hip replacement surgery 6 1/2 years ago and it started me on the path of oxys and then tramadol from that point going forward. I had been sober for over a year at the time.  I should have had a plan before my surgery for how I would deal with the surgical pain.  

Instead, I acted like it was my lucky day.  I had one of those patient directed morphine machines in the hospital and I figured, "hot damn"  - no limits.  I was constantly buzzing the nurse to unlock the machine.  Not good.  And when I got out, I took "full advantage" of the narcotics as long as I could.  I'm an addict, what can I say? I lost 40 lbs on the "narcotic diet" in about 6 weeks.  And at about six weeks after my surgery, I wanted to head back to work, so my doctor prescribed the non-ADDICTIVE, SAFE ALTERNATIVE TO "REAL NARCOTICS" -  the trams.

So Oxfin, I am thinking about you, but also asking myself what I would do differently if I had surgery again.  It sounds like your doctor undertands your addiction history, which is a good start.  I'd be asking him/her what they recommend for pain relief after surgery.  Because as we know from our own struggles, the temporary high just MAY NOT be worth months/years of addiction afterwards.

Oxfin, you also said a lot when you said, "i push myself to be a perfectionist at anything i do, especially not letting the customer down and making them happy, i have to make people happy, i cant be unless they are, i never thought about me making myself happy".

We have been asking the question what is at the core of our addictive personalities?  Somewhere in there one key may be that many of us are people pleasers...and we ae also often perfectionists.  

But perfectionists sort of implies that we are perfect.  To the contrary, I believe that most "perfectionists"  may produce above average results, but such a person will never feel like we have "achieved" perfection.  There is this need to "be" perfect, yet at the same time we are frustrated because we see mainly the imperfect parts.  

If I were to produce ten widgets, with nine of them truly perfect widgets, any guesses where my eyes would focus?  If someone complimented me on the ten widgets, any guesses what I would be thinking?  Any guesses on what would keep me up at night?  Yup, that one imperfect widget would steal my joy, occupy my thoughts and keep me awake at night.  And of course, it is really impractical to think that any of us actually COULD be perfect.  So in my life, I drank and used drugs to numb the pain of being IMPERFECT.  Except I can't do that any more.  

Substitute other things for "widget...Weight, body image, intelligence, social standing, physical stamina, friends, family, my vocation, etc. etc. etc.  If we are frustrated perfectionists, we simply MUST figure out a way (or ways) to accept less than perfection from ourselves.  Maybe 7, 8, 9 out of ten perfect widgets is good enough.

And without a numbing influence, I am forced to live life on life's terms.  Sometimes raw and painful to live outh.   Liable to produce fears and resentments if i keep on pushing for perfection.  

Well, that was fun!

1113, Nice hearing from you again.  Yes, I recall you tapering, down to one pill/day and you were about to sell your house the last time you checked in.  Looking forward to heaing about your plan.  

Tapering would just never work for this addict.  Giving myself permission to take just a little opiate, whether synthetic or not, would simply not work for me.  Here's the thing...as long as you have a little bit of the drug inside you, you have a little bit of the drug inside you blowing sweet kisses in your ear, telling you lies like, "just a few more today won't hurt".  OR, "Today is a particularly special day.  Tomorrow, I will be sure to cut back again."  These are the voices inside my own head, when I have been on various drugs...and in every case, when I have allowed those drug induced voices to hang around, they have usually won.

I applaud people who can successfully taper.  Envey them in fact. The trouble is, not many actually accomplish a successful taper.  I can think of a FEW, but in the 4 1/2 months I have been hanging around this place, by and large, the people who have actually beaten this drug, are those who just stop taking it.  Look around?  More often than not, well intended people who work out a taper plan, just have difficulty sticking with it.  And I GET that.  Like I said, I could no more successfully taper, than I could successfuly fly.  

Noodle, I always love the easy way you talk about just about any and everything.  

Emily, yes, Mrs. Fred and I would have loved to join you and Mister Emily for Easter dinner.   We left the directions in the hotel so we drove around town for hours without finding you.  (bah ha ha)

Price, It's so GREAT to hear from you again.  I knew we would, but it is great to hear from you again nonetheless.  Yup, it's bikini season soon alright and I need to drop some pounds in order to fit into mine as well.  (how's that for a visual to say goodnight on?)

Courage Strength and love to you all...Fred




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by FinallyFred, Apr 14, 2009
Oxfin, I think you have gotten all of your points across efficiently and effectively.  Enjoy reading your posts.  Fred

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by dontbelieve, Apr 14, 2009
Wow alot has been discussed in the last 3 days...

I thought i would weigh in on a few of those topics myself....

1st off...I have become a food hound again...during my tramadol experience I lost alot of weight. My normal is about 230-250. (i am 6'3) I think at my lowest point I got to 175...which for me is like a rail. I asked my doctor how I could lose 30 pounds in a month? he never made the connection. He did blood tests and found no reason. I finally realized it was tramadol. I didn't want to eat on tramadol at all. I never finished my dinner. I had the opposite reaction with vicoden. I ate all the time. So when I was going back and forth between tramadol and vicoden for a few months i would lose 30 pounds and gain 30 pounds. Well now I am not losing it anymore. I have been off trams for 2 months and vicoden for over 2 weeks and I have my pre med appetite back in full force. I am hungry every two hours. For me this is a good thing. I am too skinny. (i mean come on...a skinny truck driver!?...) I understand women have a harder time with sudden weight gain but your body needs the extra nourishment right now. since I was a young boy, everytime I was sick my grandmother made me eat. It replenshed nutrients that my body needed to heal itself. SO I say gladly accept the extra weight for now...at least the tramadol is working its way out of your system...my wife keeps telling me she looks fat now that shes 8 1/2 months pregnant. I just tell her shes still the same beautiful woman i married and ask her if she wants some ice cream. I could care less if she gains weight...she and my baby need the extra nutrients....

2. abandonment issues....This not an easy subject for a hillbilly to speak about...but it just so happens my brother and I had this same discussion sunday night. My father died when I was 2 my brother was 6. I really didn't know too much about him. Our mother was a herion addict. When my brother was 8 i was 4 my mother had my brother sent to juvinille hallfor trying to stab her. he never came home. He was sent to my aunts house about 5 hours away. About 6 months later I was also sent to my aunts house. Our mothers excuse was that she couldnt handle us we were out of control. I admit I can be "rowdy" but at 4 1/2?!? two years later we were adopted by my fathers brother and his wife. I didn't speak to or see my mother again until I was 19 and she found me. My older brother who is now 38 has not seen her since he was 8. I cant say we had a bad life. Our adopted parents were great to both of us. We stayed in the family and knew our natural relatives. Both if us left home at 16. My brother was diagnosed with paranoid schitzophrenia at age 9. He has been in many relationships with some wonderful women but always finds a way or a reason to push them away. The woman he is with now is great. Recently one of her sons took his own life, and shes struggling with it which I totally understand. My brother who for some reason feels this had something to do with him is now slowly pushing this great woman away again. So I got mad. I told him he was a selfish arrogant ******* and hes afraid to be committed to anyone and if he keeps pushing people away he's going to be a lonely old man. Thats when it hit me...holy **** i just gave a speech to my brother that my dad gave to me. When I left home at 16 I didnt speak to my adopted parents for 5 years. The only family member I had contact with was my brother. I did the same thing I kept pushing people away from me because it was better to leave them than for them to leave me. Alot easier to deal with. So here I was at 19 my real mother finds me. I up til that point didnt know if she was even alive still. I agreed to meet her. And had alot of my personal questions answered. we stayed in touch on the phone and she would come and visit but after a while we lost touch. I have not been interested in finding her again until recently. At the time my brother wanted nothing to do with her. so ten years later I am 29, i had a house right next to my adopted parents and me and my ex of 7yrs. split up. I told her we could be friends and we went our seperate ways. Honestly from the time she pulled out of the driveway she was dead to me. And thats how i am with most people. Once chance. Screw that up in my mind and your dead to me, no second chance. So about 5 girlfriends later...my dad finally said. Son, you are an arrogant selfish ***** whos afraid of commitment, and one day you are going to be a lonely old *******...and i started thinking. I had been living so long thinking i was doing the right thing pushing these people out of my life for one mistake....how many mistakes had I made. Well as it turned out for me I met my wife 3 months later. I told my her my whole story and i told her if and when I get married..Divorce is not an option, and she agreed. I have learned to manage my emotions alot better and deal with people in a different way and yeah I still have that "one mistake mentality" with some people but not everyone. I was alot younger than my brother both when our father died and my mother gave us up. Its easier for me to look past those things. My brother, not so easy. The only person he has ever had constantly in his life is me. So I asked him sunday...well is it time to try to find "mom" again?...and we both just stared at eachother. Finally he said " no." He looked at me and said "I think we both have enough abandonment issues and I dont think she can answer any of my questions..."
He had never admitted that before. I never knew he realized it. On the way home I told my wife, No matter how crazy anything ever got between us she would always get as many chances as she wanted.

3. AFTER SURGERY....

I saw a couple comments on dealing with pain after surgery. This has me terrified. I know have to have to have surgery. I also know i dont take the recommended or perscribed amount of my pain meds. The only thing I can think is to give em to my wife and tell her to monitor how many i am taking....but even then she sees me in pain and shes going to cave. I would like to hear some more ideas on this subject Icould use some suggestions. I have a surgery consult coming up next month.

Anyway enough ramblin for me tonight, I get on these tangents and before you know it....

Oh by the way i think it was emily that mentioned but not sure...the appearance of more grey hairs daily.

I am sitting next to my sister at easter dinner...and she keeps looking at my chin and turning away and giggling. I have a long goatee so here I am thinking ok whats in my goatee...so i check it and nothing... then my other sister starts doing it too. They were counting the number of grey hairs in my goatee and my they thought it was hilarious since I am the baby of the family...my hair is naturally black so I told em I was just showing my support for the RAIDERS....Then I took off my hat...yeah its time to shave the head again....I am reallllllyyyyy supporting the RAIDERS there....


talk to you later all...

The Hillbilly

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by bjb97, Apr 14, 2009
Hello again everyone.  I've enjoyed reading all of the posts for the past few days.  All of your stories are so encouraging and honest and it makes me know that being honest with myself and my life is the ONLY way I can keep going down this sober and Tram-free path.  

I, too, have pondered the question of future pain following surgery, etc and what options I would have.  I would hope that I could take vicodin for just 3-4 days or less and only be prescribed that many pills 8-10 and then go to Aleve or Ibuprophen.  I would hope that I would have the intestinal fortitude to NOT abuse again but you know the great happy feeling of euphoria you get when those beloved opiates enter your bloodstream.  Geez, here I am smiling thinking about it.  What sly and cunning drugs they are.  Anyway, I hope I get a lot of time between now and when I have to take a pain pill because the pain is just TOO unbearable.

I'm on Day 19 Tram Free and really starting to enjoy life again.  Still waking up a lot at night but not having huge diffficulty falling back to sleep and averaging 6-7 hours a night -- which seems like heaven compared to 2 1/2 weeks ago!!!

Keep up the great work everyone and keep sharing.  It helps everyone!

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by noodlegrl, Apr 14, 2009
Day 20 - Tired, tired, tired, headache. And that's all.

1. Abandonment - These kind of issues deep root themselves in our subconscious and shape who we are as people without us realizing it. Then all it takes is a trigger for us to act with haste due to a unknown fear, which is another fear in itself. Craziness. I have to get all of my old self back before I can start working on anything else. Which makes me wonder - how am I ever going to have time to work on myself and try to make myself happy. My time management skills are fubarred or something.

It seems like A LOT of us have very similar underlying issues to go along with our addictive personalities and such. Are we stumbling on the common grounds that make addicts addicts?!

2. Pain Management After Surgery - This is something I would also like to know a little more about. In the hopefully semi-near future I will be opting to have elective cosmetic surgery and as invasive as it is going to be I will need to know how to handle the situation and how/what to ask the doctor without "outing" myself.

Fred - hehe - thank you. I have been known to "let it all hang out", when it comes to talking about stuff. I think it comes from not having many people to talk to, when I finally find someone I am comfortable with (to talk to) I'll jut go on and on about stuff that they could probably care less. I know sometimes I just need to hush.

Hillbilly - nothing wrong with salt and pepper! George Clooney *swoon* And so so sympathetic toward your parental situation. How to move forward! Just gotta try. Sounds like you have a wonderful wife too btw :)

oxfinx - Sounds like you have a wonderful family too. I think you can do great post surgery! Just gotta have faith and mean determination!

Shade - understand that completely too - the feeling like need to have something in me to go on... I don't crave per say, just got used to taking something I guess. I pretend vitamins are "placebos" but I don't tell myself that ;) lol

But, on that note - if anyone has said anything you want me to comment or respond on please let me know, lest I missed it or I am being too lazy right now to scroll back and read everything again because my head is pounding.

Good Tram-free day to all!

~Noodle



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by Shadetree, Apr 14, 2009
Hello Everyone...

Price~ When I read your post about the chapstick, I chuckled.) I hav a girlfriend who carries chapstick everywhere. We hav been friends for about 15 years and I seriously cant remember a single time she didnt have it...lol My addictions lately have been sweet tea from mcd's ( I get one every morning before work ) and wild strawberry jolly ranchers..funny huh. I by bag after bag just to pick them out. I have also been making alot of sugar cookies. What does everything hav in common? Sugar! I hav always wondered how I would feel if I cut out so much sugar out of my diet...

About the abandonment thing, I cant really say I hav been abandoned untill now. As an adult my mother or father are not very involved with my life or my children's lives. Which makes me very sad. I am closer to my husbands family than I am my own. I was actually begining to wonder if my kids would even know my dad if they seen him at a store. We see them probably twice to three times a year. I guess I could take the initiative to see them and take my kids around them... I just see how my husbands family are and if they dont see the kids in a couple weeks they are calling wanting them. I love that! I have vowed to never be like my parents when it comes to that. I think they (my mom & dad) have always thought I am responsible and can take care of myself. I have never asked them for help. Unlike my sister that uses my mom for everything. And my mom does for her, I dont know its almost like if I "needed" her she would be there. But I do need her just in a different way.

Fred~ You hit a very true point for me, about the tapering and being unsuccessful. That is what I am coming to find out! Although I have the best intentions "something" always comes up... I am still lowering my dose but when these are gone that is it! So if I go through w/d's which I know I will so be it. It is just something I do not have control over. It is absolutley crazy to me. I think of my self as such a strong person, no matter how much I want to I just dont. I talk my self out of it just like you said. I hear those same things everyday... So I have about a week left until they are gone, and then there gone. I really am looking forward to it. On top of that my credit card info got hacked and I had to cancel it and order another card. So I cant and wont order more. I am not doing anything that involves my credit card on the computer anymore. Even if the site is https (s for secure) it still happens. This is the second time it has happend to me, and I guess it is becoming more common.

Thank you all for listening, and not judging. I have been here for a while and should have been done with the nasty stuff along time ago... But I am still lowering and will be off in about a week....so wish me luck

~Shade



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by FinallyFred, Apr 14, 2009
Up earlier than normal so had a chance to read the recent posts.  We certainly are a bunch of consumate clarifiers.  In other words, we don't like being misunderstood.

Hillbilly, you wrote some honest and heartfelt things there that warrant more time thinking about.    

I have a huge oral argument to make this morning, so I'll close by offering (to myself and others) the John Wooden line I shared once before, which is, "Don't let what we CANNOT do interfer with what we CAN do."  TODAY.

Fred

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by FinallyFred, Apr 14, 2009
Shade (hugs and smiles)  You just said a couple things that struck some chords.  

First, I am so glad that nothing I said offended you.  Sometimes in my enthusiasm to see people get well, I come across as a little gruff.  I am glad you didn't take what I said the wrong way.  I want ONLY the best for you and every person who is on trams.  I know what my life was like on these things...and it wasn't pretty.

I wouldn't say that you are being "unsuccessful "though.  As I recall, you have reduced the # of pills by quite a lot.  We all just move in different grooves to get to the same destination.  I think you ARE strong and I think you will be fine once you jump off.  

RE: Your children spending more time with your parents than your husbands.  I can relate.  We have two grandchildren and our son and daughter in law live very close to "her" parents, so they are constantly over to their house and not so much here.  It wasn't that we didn't WANT to see the grandkids regularly, it's just that we hadn't come up with a plan to make it happen regularly.  

About a year ago when our daughter in law was pregnant with their second child, my daughter in law said something to us about "wanting her children to spend more time with us".  Like you said, Shade, it would be nice if they recognize grandma and "papa" (as they call me) if I were to run into them at the grocery store.

So we all just determined that they would come over on Saturday, for dinner every two weeks.  Scheduled in some family time.  Now we see them more often than that, but my point is that it was my daughter in laws comment to us that sort of broke the ice.  Sometimes grandparents don't want to intrude.  We need to be told that having regular schedules times with the grandkids is something that is valued.   Just a suggestion.

Fred

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by oxfinx, Apr 14, 2009
oh my Fred. how could you? i have stayed up so many sleepless nights recently thinking of how i got to where i was and where i am. those those make me feel good even though i get angry. now you go an spoil my parade. i do mean that fondly. i never even stopped to think of where i was going. simply happy with where i am now. i guess you can become blinded by what you did, how you got there and where you've been so you dont make "that" mistake again, that for me i havent let myself think of where i was going. VERY good question for me, and i have no idea what im going to do as far as pain meds. i made the comment to my surgeon yesterday that "i'm off all the bad drugs , i'm ready for this and i'm ready for whatever you say i need." i guess i may have lead myself into a trap. or maybe i just "hope" this doctor wont be like the others i've had. yes he knows where i was. he actually told me he wont do surgery if i was taking all those drugs, so i feel safe with him that he is looking out for me. but what you said really makes me think, even if our doctors are looking out for us and have the best intentions, they havent felt my pain, they havent gone through what ive gone through, they have only looked at it from the outside, can they really help? he knows that i dont want the drugs i was on, but because of the tolerance i have built up, is he going to feel i will need "different named" but stronger drugs. honestly i "dont"  want to think of it. i gave up deciding what i needed because i dont know. i am only positive in what i "dont" need. i am waiting to hear those dreaded words, "your going to have to take something" and before that, "how can i help you if you wont take anything i prescribe". i know i am going to tie his hands and make things hard on him and in some ways i think he knows that and is still willing to try. or, maybe thats the way i would think if i were him. this way i am of putting myself in other people shoes to see it from their point of view sometimes gets in the way of my point of view. maybe one day i will listen to the wife and just "not give a darn" what or why people are the way they are and just concern myself with why do "I", and what am "I" going to do. i couldnt be me without empathy but im "slowly" seeing that i need to have empathy for myself. yes, i think that many of us who have to achieve "in others eyes" greatness and perfection will self sacrifice and self destruct to get there even if "only" for someone else's benefit. i have done that for too long.and the feeling of needing to have that other person like,love,envy us all it takes. at least for me i think.
on another note. i have found myself in the last week entertaining the thoughts of finding something that will help with the twitching i have developed since quitting all my daemons. i have been loosing more and more sleep every day to the point i dont sleep and in the last 5 or 6 days i maybe have gotten 5-6 hours of sleep. im sure some or many of you have been there. i considered neurontin as i've either read or heard many things on it. i wouldnt be worried about weight gain as i just dont gain it no matter what. HA, people even one of my docs said that when quitting the drugs and smoking i would gain and i lost 6 pounds and increased my appetite. go figure i eat more now that before but i loose weight. n-e-ways. since i will be having surgery not too long away, as i told my docs i dont want to start any new "scripts" since i know inevitably i will have to post surgery, what else is out there. well, i was led into Bioflavonoids. i started takeing them and i do notice i "slight" difference, enough i think i got 3 or so hours of sleep last night. BUT i am developing the pain again that went away after about 9 days off tramadol. does anyone have some expertise on this as to why a supplement would bring back the tramadol pain. the pills are (Vitamin C 'as ascorbic acid" 100mg - Citrus Bioflavonoids 1.4g"1400mg" 37% hesperdin - Rutin 100mg) i take 3 at night. since my surgery is going to be in either 4 or 5 weeks for sure, would it be worth it to take something like the gabapentin. i havent taken it but even the doctor said it should help with the RLS and pins/needles but will it induce the pain as i have experienced with bioflavonoids? i would rather not sleep than have those pains again so ive decided not to take them anymore. HA and they are a supplement, not even a script and i distrust them! will i ever be happy with pills again?!@?@ i dont even take Tylenol anymore for headache. n-e-ways..any thoughts.

THANKS again for opening my eyes to more truths and more questions.

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by Denim185, Apr 14, 2009
Hi again, thank you Emily for replying about the depressed feelings. If I could be honest I was thinking I would get more than one response. We are all here b/c we have come off tramadol. I was told to come to this page for support. I said I was new and didn't hear from anyone. I would love to join in and get some experiences of others coming off this drug. Emily said it is normal for you to be depressed for a few weeks and I wanted to know is she the only one that was able to relate to that. I have come off other things any never felt this bad before but for fear of not being read right, not to the point of staying in my room or not interacting with people. I just wanted to know if others felt depressed. I have some serious issues to be depressed about but this seems to have magnified it.

And as far as abandonment issues, I deffinitely have them. They always said that drugs filled a hole where you lacked love.
Thanks for listening. My computer is typing super slow. I'll be back. I know I am a strong person and went through a lot but am definitely open to learning and want to wake up happy like I used to. Someone had suggested I was clinically depressed and found it hard to go along with. I think the tram w/d makes you more emotional and if you already have problems it's worse. Honestly if I told you everything that has happened in the last 4 years w/o the tram w/d, someone would have a hard time.
This computer is terrible right now. Thanks for listening.

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by noodlegrl, Apr 14, 2009
Hiyas Denim,

Sorry I didn't respond to your question. Its so easy to get lost in the posts and forget to respond to something - I have been doing a lot of it I'm sure. Also, I have limited computer time and its getting even more limited since I am rising out of my tramfog which is allowing me to focus more effectively at work (which is where I am able to access the forum) and I am not a big jittery ball of anxiety/panic attacks so I'm not obsessively returning here every 5 minutes for reassurance and guidance LOL. I do, however, want to be able to help new people.

I have heard that A LOT of people have suffered depression after coming off trams. MY main problem was ANXIETY like you would not believe. It was up and down like a roller coaster. I think I had underlying depressing feelings but the ANXIETY I was having was covering up the other feelings because it was soooo strong. There are a slew of other symptoms associated with tramadol withdrawal: insomnia, stomach cramps and diarrhea, restless limbs with numbness and tingling sensations, anxiety, panic, depression, hot and cold sweats, headaches, sneezing (weird yes), yawning (weird too) etc.  For most, the worst of the symptoms is over within 5 days. My anxiety still wages on but in a very "tolerable" amount, BUT I have a pre-disposition to anxiety so it may not be related to my withdrawals (Today is Day 20 Tram-free for me). Since you have been off the trams about 10 days your acute withdrawal symptoms SHOULD be pretty much over. So it brings me to this question, did you suffer from depression BEFORE tramadol? If so, you have a pre-disposition and you may need to speak with your doctor or you can research natural depression remedies (which is what I have done for my anxiety because I am now afraid of prescription medications). But you also say you are going through some things right now. Those things could be solely what is causing your depression. And yes, Tramadol does make everything worse. Have you tried anything from the Thomas Recipe or Amino Acid Protocol?? If not, you should look it up, not only is the stuff on there good for easing detox symptoms, there are things on it that are just good for you, like the vitamins and aminos. I made my own little regimen for detox by taking several things off both the Thomas Recipe and Amino Acid Protocol BUT generally those are things you start BEFORE you CT or Taper. But still could help you.

I did a little google search for natural remedies for depression - here are some:
St. Johns Wort
Omega 3 Fatty Acids
Sam-E
Folic Acid
5-HTP
Reduce intake of sweets and avoid caffeine and alcohol
Vitamin B6
Magnesium -  stress deletes magnesium which is needed for serotonin production
Exercise/yoga
Light (Sunlight) therapy  

I am sure there are more you could find. I would not jump the gun and start taking all these or anything. Research and choose what you think would be good for you. Make sure they won't interact with other medications or herbs. Discuss with your doctor if you think necessary. I hope I have helped at least a little. Let me know if you have any other questions. There are lots here who are way more knowledgeable than I but I do what I can to help, or try to, when I have time.

Happy for another Tramfree day!

~Noodle


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by bjb97, Apr 14, 2009
Denim -- I agree with Noodle that if the depression is strictly a result of the Tram withdrawal than you may just want to weather the storm and maybe try some of the natural remedies Noodle mentioned above.  For me excercise and sunshine, particularly at the same time, really get my "good endorphins" flowing to the brain and I get a naturally "happy high" going.  

If you depression existed before the Tram and has really reared its angry head since you have washed the Tram from your system, I would consult with a doctor who would be more knowledgeable on the matter.  I still think if your doc could prescribe something other than prescription drugs for you to try initially and then if that doesn't help, you may need to move to a stronger prescription-strength drug.

Good luck and keep posting here.  That in itself is great therapy.

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by priceiswright, Apr 14, 2009
Denim - Depression is incredibly normal. Unfortunately, not everyone is able to reply to everyone's posts but we on here are pulling for everyone who posts and thats why we post. Although we might not address one single person, when we are writing we are addressing all. For example, I hope by sharing my stories that they will help those who are reading on these boards. You should read through all of Emily's journals and all comments made on them, you will get a clear understanding of what is normal with tram withdraw and how people deal with it. Depression for me, personally, was one of the worst withdraw symptoms. Another being cravings for other opiates, and being restless without a drug. Third and prob the worst for me, was lack of energy. I felt like I couldn't do ANYTHING. You know why? Because before when I was on trams, I took trams so I could do ANYTHING. x, y,or z. you name it, i needed to tram to do it.

Fred - in regards to tapering, I totally agree with you. I know everyone has their own way of doing it but quitting CT is the only thing that would work for me. I had originally planned a taper because I thought it would be too difficult to quit but all I found was that it was dragging the symptoms out longer and truly, I just wanted the drugs out of me as quickly as possible so I could get back to being me!!!

BJB97 - congrats on your success. very proud of you.

Shadetree - I'm glad I could make you laugh :)

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by phoenix72, Apr 14, 2009
Hi all.  
I am new to this website and journal.  I found it last week when I stopped cold turkey on tramadol and immediately started feeling very ill.  I called my doctor to get another prescription.  I just took my last one today at 4pm and know what will be in store for me.  I am very grateful I found this site.  My doctor told me that this drug was fine to take.  She did not say anything about the hell I will have to undergo from stopping it.  
I am feeling quite scared because I already got a taste of the withdrawals.  And from what I understand from your posts, it will only get worse.  I was initially put on this pill for uterine pain.  I am scheduled to have a hysterectomy in two weeks.  The doctor doing the surgery said that I was to go off the tramadol starting two weeks before surgery.  How long does the withdrawals last?  Does it vary from individual to individual?  Does anyone know if I could have complications from stopping this drug and then having major surgery?  I understand that my doctors the ultimate one that can answer that, however I don't meet with her for another week.  I guess I just wanted to put my mind at ease.  
I haven't read everyone's posts here yet.  So forgive me if there was an answer to any one of my questions in a previous post.  I also wanted to thank Emily for starting this.  You are a life saver!  Thanks to all.
Cindy

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by phoenix72, Apr 14, 2009
Sorry, but one more thing...I am a recovering alcoholic.  I am rather pissed about the effects of this drug and being so blindly led by the physician that prescribed them to me telling me that they would be okay to take, even with an addictive personality.  NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT!!!  Talked to my sponser tonight, though, and that helped some.  Thanks.
Cindy  

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by oxfinx, Apr 14, 2009
Phoenix72: you found the right place. i found that reading post's was the best help as you can read for hours and it will only inspire you more and more. you WILL find connections with what people have and are going through. of course it depends on your length of time and dosage, for me it was over two years religiously and up to 12 a day. the worst of the w/d was over after about 9 days. for some they have posted accounts of it being a little less to a little more. i have not experienced some of the other lasting effects but i have had my own so it would be safe to say the symptoms vary from person to person and seem to bring out anything that you you have a pre-disposition to having. it is well worth getting off tramadol as staying on it will only prolong the inevitable horrors. the only good thing to being on tramadol i found is when you take it and it kicks in, that is the only time i can remember liking the effects of it. but its like anything else thats not good for you. it wears off and gets mad at you. then it makes you pay. you say you stopped and experienced the ill feeling, well, you will feel it again when you stop again but i assure it it does get better. from my own experience you will feel ill for a few days but after a week or so you will feel better. remember, to experience bliss you must pay for it. i myself will be having major surgery very soon and i was required by my doc to quit the meds first so that i dont have to go through the w/d after. i quit 46 days ago and even though i have constant pain, i know what is causing it. and i dont have as much pain as the tramadol WILL CAUSE pain. good luck and post often, i dont practice that advice but it does help tremendously.

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by FinallyFred, Apr 15, 2009
Phoenix,  Welcome.  Complications from stopping tram? NAW.   Besides, if your doctor told you to discontinue tramadol two weeks before the surgery and your surgery is in TWO WEEKS, I don't see that you have much choice right about now.  Noodle provided a pretty comprehensive list of possible symptoms to expect.  For me, the worst symptoms during the first 3-4 days were (1) sleeplessness, (2) stabbing pains in my feet and and RLS and (3) fluish symptoms (body aches, chills, fevers, diarrhea).  I'll bet you will be through the worst of withdrawal by Sunday.   Google "Thomas Recipe" and pick up some of the suggested remedies in the morning - if you can.

And then like others have noted, there are things that you MAY experience beyond that time; loss of concentration, lack of energy, depression, anxiety, etc.  

This is one POWERFUL drug, as you are finding out (unfortunately) too well.  There have been people who have come on here and told us that kicking heroin was easier than kicking tramadol.  I don't know about that, but the point is, this drug is WAY missunderstood, prescribed and consumed.

Click on Emily's picture to arrive at HER profile page, scroll down on the left,  and read all of her journal entires.  I maintained journal entires myself through the first 14 days as well.  You may find them helpful as well.

The thing is Phoenix...you need to prepare NOW mentally for the battle you are undertaking.  It won't be easy and it will last 3-4 days, but you CAN and will win the battle.

There are LOTS of posts to read.  If you arrived here and (you said you hadn't done a lot of reading of the posts) I am guessing you caught the link at the bottom of the "Day 45" journal. But there are like 6 additional "threads" that if you have time, would be worth reading by starting again back at the "Day 45"...the one that comes up when you do a google search.  

Please tell me that you don't plan to work this week or that you have 6 children under the age of 10 years old at home with you?   Because you should plan to feel a little "groggy" and a little grumpy this week.  Some here, like St. Noodle, worked while withdrawing, but honestly, I don't know she did it.  

And just so you know, there are others here who are friends of Bill W.  I am.  The really crazy thing is that I had just gotten sober less than two years before I had surgery.  And the very SAME doctor, who once told me that I needed to stop drinking or it would kill me, is the same "gentleman", who prescribed tramadol for me after my surgery.  So I too came by this honestly and I too was angry when I found out what I had gotten myself into.  But regardless of why we started our tram-journey, the end is the same for us all.  Keep posting Okay?  

Oxfin, Hillbilly Phoenix (and dang if there wasn't someone else?) - I raised the question last night about what Oxfin planned to do for the post surgical pain.  I am pretty good with asking the questions, but I am afraid that I didn't have a good answer all lined up to spit out.  It's worth thinking about though, I think.  I for one, don't think I could fully trust my doctor to give me only non-habit forming pills again.  And I KNOW that I can't trust myself to do the "right thing" when it comes to narcotics, synthetic or not.  Maybe I would trust my wife to hold my pills and hand them out.  And to kick me in the head if I kept calling in for more refills.   But like Hillbilly said, I am pretty certain that I could make her "cave"  I'm an addict you see, and if I am "on" something, I lay awake nights thinking about how to get my next pills.  

I think I'll use a "lifeline" and ask Michelle aka madtram.  Suggestions?  

Courage Strength and love,

Fred

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by FinallyFred, Apr 15, 2009
Oxfin,  Congratulations on stopping smoking man.  I'm sure your surgeon told you that the chances of bone non-union with a fusion goes WAY up if you are smoking.  I'm impressed.  Fred

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by oxfinx, Apr 15, 2009
yes, i got the lectures of why smoking and surgery dont mix and even though i might be self destructive i do have a clue that you just dont mess with certain things. i can see tonight is going to be another long night of sleeplessness. it is so funny how i let myself take so many pills (upwards of 30+ a day) and now i cant stand the thought, hell i cant hardly swallow when i have taken them. plus again tonight my mind has gotten me into trouble. when i was on tram i didnt really think because i knew i couldnt hold a straight thought and now, i find myself getting into discussions that are pretty deep and i see all the little things that i never did before. like now i find myself examining why i thought what i did, where the thought came from, where it will lead. and i do a pretty good job except i think i over do it. na, i know i over do it. i go as far as to do that with other people. i analyze every little detail and remember every little detail. when i was on tram i would forget what i was talking about while i talking about it. sometimes id get so mad about that, that i would go into a rage so that whoever i was talking about would forget too what it was and only remember the rage. i dont know if thats the reason but it sounds good to me. of course i went into alot of rages. i dont do that anymore. i just get into heated discussions using intellect and common sense. at least i hope thats what it is. i couldnt believe my doc (internal medicine, not surgeon) told me to go back to smoking pot if it helped me slow down my thinking to not try to out-think the person im talking to because i get so wound up your perception would be that i was angry when im not. im just trying to get you to see my point because i saw your point sooooo long ago before you told me!! anyone been there before? over-thinking things is something i used to do before the tram but i didnt get crazy about it. i did it when it helped. like when your drawing out the plans to a new addition in your house, you want to over-think things to make sure you disnt miss anything, dis you get everything the customer wanted, check it, double check it, then have them check it, 3 times over and over. i dont know why it is so intense now. i dont do it 24/7 with other people, but i do when it comes to my own thoughts. maybe its my way of keeping myself from falling victim again to being naive. or is that naive itself. there is one i will ponder all night.i know somewhere in that skull of mine that i should just let things go, happen as they will, and not be bothered by them. it's not that i am bothered by what happens, as much as i am bothered that i cannot control everything. on tram i was more than bothered, i was REALLY ticked about everything even if i could control it. i was mad that i could, hahah. i wonder why it is that i have this urge to fix everything around me. i dunno, maybe i feel i have fixed everything about "me" that i can right now so i have to fix others or "find" something else about "me" to fix. i gotta say when you stay up 96 hours at a stretch then nap enough to call it a nap you have sooooo much time to "THINK" about things. i would give anything to sleep again. i tried supplements but all they did was cause the "old tram" pain to come back (cant figure that one out). i know pills would do it, but i found out a couple weeks ago, the number of pills to do it just isnt worth it, and even then i didnt get but a couple hours. it is 1 am now and i think i will go do some gardening. then some internet reading, or heck why not do both at the same time, hahaha. i love this life with no tram, i cant sleep but im not mad, just beside myself.

THANKS again

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by kevzx81, Apr 15, 2009
Spring Eqiunox Crashes Interweb...(Read Orl Abardit!!)

Emily-Everyone- ive missed so much!! Emily-where are u at with the benzos now? Ive lost track of everyone and Im having 'forum w/ds'! Ive learned some useful stuff this week and I think my net being down was NOT coincidence. Life brought fog to the land so I couldnt 'garden' and crashed my web to 'minimize distraction'!!! Paranoid??? Hmmm
Well judging by outcomes life has been VERY KIND to me. My discomforts have been well rewarded,just like the steam room yoga. Ive leaned that validating really heavy/ugly stuff is no harder than the lighter stuff, just more uncomfortable. I think(HOPEHOPEHOPE) that many folks could be over-estimating the time needed for 'significant clearance'. I think its identification that will more likely prove a sticking point and cause delay. we have to recover memories first sometimes.But I am SOOO hopeful .My pain is still slowly diminishing,even in bad weather.
I will post as soon as I can organize my thoughts. I find the words 'arise' and 'subside' best descibe how our feelings feel when seeking and finding validation. language is also a healing tool. I need to contain my excitement right now, I dont want the mad march hare of spring to run loose in my garden lol....

Spring wishes of re-vitalization and re-birth to you (((EMILY))).



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by phoenix72, Apr 15, 2009
Hi all.
Thanks oxfinx and FinallyFred.  I was on Tram since December 24, 2008.  Not terribly long like a lot of you.  Still, too long to deal with this s***.  I do have to work this week, because I have just enough hours to be off the required six weeks after surgery.  Much more after that, I don't get paid.  I do also have two children under the age of 7.  I have a husband, but he recently hurt his back and is down for a few days.  BAD TIMING:(  If it's a war this stupid little drug wants, a war it will get.  It does help to be on here and post and read what others say.  I think right now that is my saving grace.  Just to know that it will pass in time is fine for now.  I am already feeling anxious and irritable.  And I have already been crying a few times this morning, and it is only 7:30am.  I am also feeling the sweats and chills.  YEAH!  GOOD TIMES!   I do want to thank everyone for their strength and their wisdom.  I also want to thank you for the places you told me to read.  I will try some of the suggestions.  Well, I need to get ready for work.  Will see you all soon.
Cindy

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by noodlegrl, Apr 15, 2009
Morning all Warriors,

Day 21 Tram-Free for me!

HAHA Fred St. Noodle lol - that got me. Working while withdrawing was definitely very difficult and exhausting. I had to learn how to put on a front but there were moments someone would need me for something and come sit at my desk to chat and I would be picturing throwing my stapler at their face wondering if that would make them go away and leave me alone! Fortunately, I was able to contain myself. By the time I would get home in the evening I would be so mentally drained that physically I would just want to collapse into sleep! But there were still things to be done, so I tried to push forward. In some ways it helped because it kinda sorta *helped* keep me distracted but also it made me push issues aside only to be dealt with later which is now starting to effect me since the emotional numbness etc is wearing off.

Last night was an emotionally painful night. Going through some things now that I did not foresee coming. Sooo, have anxiety today not related to tramadol but made worse from having just come off the ****, me thinks. BUT I CRIED (!!!) really CRIED last night for the first time in almost a year. And I am still crying today. It feels good to get it out but since it is caused by emotional pain it is also saddening. But what can you do, except hope and try to make things better which is what I have been TRYING to do for the last 1-2 months by trying to get my life back on track. People always focus on the bad things they over look the good (I have been guilty of this also but realized a while ago that I did and have been working on that for a while, I thought I was better about it but...). *Sigh* Story of my life...

Since I kinda see where it comes from I think I can make it better, its another validating circumstance, but these things need TIME! What do we say?? Time heals the best. Only time can make it better. Its not *poof* yay all good. You can't snap your fingers and make everything magically perfect. Which is another issue in itself. Perfection - some have a calling to strive for it. Price, Onfinx, Fred have talked of it. Perfectionists and Pleasers. I am definitely a pleaser more than a perfectionist but I have that prob too. And for a long time, maybe I have been trying to please the wrong people. Trying to be perfect for the wrong people and or reasons. It is way past time for me to figure myself out and change what needs to be changed (I know some, but not all of my issues). I worry tramadol may have altered my sanity. But watch out, change is a coming and the old noodle might have to scoot on out and give a new noodle a chance, if the new noodle can be strong enough to make it out.

Everyone - Price is right - Unless otherwise stated I am usually just rambling off my thoughts to everyone - we have a wealth of information to reference but I also know that in the heat of withdrawal you want someone to respond to YOU NOW! Its a hard battle and makes you a little crazazy anxious!

Phoenix - I think that 2 weeks gives you enough time that you will be ok for surgery. I would *almost* think that if there are any WD symptoms left then they would be covered up by surgery symptoms. I'm not sure but I still think you will be ok especially since you had a relatively short go round with it. And yes, doctors r dum about his drug right now but hopefully they will realize its addictive potential sooner rather than later. This drug grips someone in its evil claws everyday..... But YOU will be FINE and DANDY very soon :) Glad you joined our little slice of the interwebs, we are leaving a legacy for others to follow in our Recovery footsteps.

Hey Kev! Dern fog and spring equinox preventing your interweb usage with us!

While reading back over this I feel very bipolar =P I'm sad, I'm positive. I'm everything all at once. Oh well. Also, if I have ever offended anyone with anything I have said, I am sorry. I just have to throw that out there.

*Waves to everyone* Sorry if I missed somebody.. but I have to go for now.

~Noodle

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by phoenix72, Apr 15, 2009
Thank you noodle for your hope.  I am at work right now.  Haven't envisioned throwing a stapler at anyone yet:)  Ahhh, but the day is young.  So far nothing too horrible.  Just fighting those icky flu symptoms.  And of course, as soon as I get here, all holy hell breaks loose at work.  But I am trying to find positive in this.  By pushing through all the newly developed time constraints at work, I am not focusing as much on feeling like ****.  Maybe this is a blessing.  Also trying to focus on taking things one minute at a time.  
I did yell at my kids this morning.  I feel HORRIBLE about that.  They are just being their lovely little selves and I feel like monster mom tromping through the forrest.  That is not a good feeling for me.  
I am so glad I found this site.  Knowing that I am not alone and that everyone has been so kind.  Thank you!  Hope nobody minds, but I will probably be posting like crazy.  Let me know if ya want me to be quiet for awhile.  Thanks again!
Cindy

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by noodlegrl, Apr 15, 2009
Cindy - nope post away! This is not the quiet room. Post as much as you want and need. Its what its here for :)

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by EmilyPost, Apr 15, 2009
I wrote this yesterday and MedHelp wouldn't let me post it. :D

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK that's it! I'm done. This will be the last day I take klonopin. In fact; last night may be the last time I take Klonopin. Stupid Mass Anxiety and stupid dizziness. I woke up this morning feeling like I was on a Boat. After leaving the bed at 3am cause Mister Emily Snores, I got a few hours of sleep! And I needed SLEEP, so I crawled into the spare room. I have unbelievable body pain. And I apparently bit my lip last night. I have a raw spot on the inside of my lower lip that is perfectly teeth shaped. Einstein! Geez man. It's bad enough waking up and feeling like I wiped out trying to catch the Perfect Wave. But waking up feeling drunk and stoned and like I wiped out and like my cerebellum is on fire!?

GAH!

Today the Hypochondria Paranoid Me is insisting I had a seizure in my sleep. (Not Bloody Likely!) Last week I had imaginary Breast Cancer and then I had A Brain Tumor. The crazy brain coming off this poo poo. AND I am also Homicidal still.

Awesome!

Holy Moly Man, Dude! I did pretty well on Easter. Cooked a big meal, functioned fairly well. A little body pain. And then yesterday wasn't so bad. I had about 8-10 hours of full function but apparently I am paying for it now?

I spent yesterday (Monday) cleaning out the clutter room. More pills, more reverbs of what the pills have done to me. Seeing your life all wrecked, I got VERY upset at one point and started ranting again about Interventions and how come no one helped me when I devote my LIFE to helping other people. Where the heck WERE all those people? This experience isn't making me think very well of humans!

Of course, my husband was helpful. He looked at the room a few times and made the suggestion to "organize the clothes." Dude. The clothes were layered in with all sorts of stuff! Layers of Drug Addiction. We're talking a massive life meltdown! I took another three 30-40 gallon bags of clutter out of the room and I would think it'll take ... SEVERAL DAYS to get half way thru. It's so ... unpleasant. I had to take a break after I killed a big black spider which reminds me ...

Last week I was going to the Drugstore to buy some stuff and Mr Emily said he'd drive me! BONUS! And so we're driving thru the 'burbs. And Mister Emily starts doing his Monologue about how there is an empty lot and they are going to Build a WALMART there. There's no arguing with him. Don't try. Even logic, like, "Dude; it's way way way way too small for even 1-20th of a parking lot of a Walmart ..." Don't. You waste your Time friend. But you can think privately about how a Walmart would be ok, and better than the burnt down apartment building with all the Graffiti on it. But don't say that out loud or it could be days before you get out of it!

So I am in the passenger seat when suddenly ... I FEEL someone looking at me. I turn to the Right and trapped in the window, between the dashboard and the passenger window is a Ginormous Bug thing and I swear It IS LOOKING AT ME. It's bug eyes meet my eyes!  Holy He$$!

And I flip out!  I mean; Freak Dance! It's some kind of freaky Bug hybrid thing. Like with a grasshopper body and wings! And it's eyeballs are fixed on my eyeballs! Like this Bug is looking into my SOUL! And it's judging me! And it's a foot away in the windshield ... trapped ... and I roll down the window in a complete panic ...

And so (So not Like me) I scream and tell DH to stop the car. He doesn't! So I open the door and am yelling ICK!! OMG Get it out and I pretty much jump out of the half moving car ... he'd slowed down by then because I was yelling ... I think he had no idea I was going to get jump of the moving car! (Even though I told him! Men!)

So I dance all around on the side of the road telling DH to get the bug OUT of the car and away from me ...

Eventually (felt like six hours later) he does AND THE BUG ALMOST FLIES INTO MY HAIR!

ACKkkkkkkkkkkkk



Drugs Man. Drugs.

Em
__________________________________________________________________________________________

I see many new peeps, gotta go read



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by phoenix72, Apr 15, 2009
That ***** Emily!  Sorry you have had such a rough time.  And EEEEWWWWW about the bug!  I used to work at this one facility that was near a power plant.  And let me tell ya, there were all kinds of weird mutated bugs.  Haven't had the experience of one looking at me yet.  Maybe it's your bug spirit guide... HA HA HA!  Sorry, I know it's not funny, but if I don't try to keep a positive outlook at this moment, I am going to rip my skin off.  I have found that if I keep myself VERY VERY mentally busy, then things aren't so bad.  It's the moment when I don't have anything to occupy my mind that I start feeling like **** and that I won't to punch someone out...or cry.  I do have to say, I have been listening to some good music so that helps too.  Oh yeah...and also the tylenol I just took.  I have big hopes and dreams for that.  
Fred, I couldn't take most of the stuff on Thomas' recipe.  My doctor said strictly Tylenol.  So Tylenol it is.  Also, Noodle, I am starting to look at my stapler.  It hasn't spoke to me yet, however, if a specific person comes and sits down in my office at this moment, I think that stapler just might start talking LOL :)
Keep on truckin everyone!
Cindy  

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by EmilyPost, Apr 15, 2009
((((Cindy)))) My bug spirit guide had might big eyeballs! I always try to make people laugh, it's meant to be funny. Alot of what I say is meant to be funny!

:D Don't rip off your skin, and yes, the tylenol helped me many times! I wanna know if your stapler talks what it says ,

-------------------->Well. Today is my first day off all drugs :D <-----------------------------------

HOORAY!

*dances*

I have a headache, and my body feels Post-Benzo. Meaning muscle pain and some dizziness. But not disabling. I don't wanna count my chickens, but this is GOOD!

Denim when I started on MedHelp (which you can see by clicking on my picture and going to my Journals) no one talked to me. LOL! I basically just kept talking to myself. I documented how I felt and what it was like for me. I answered my own questions by searching Google. I'm sorta not easily discouraged.

Denim writes, "They always said that drugs filled a hole where you lacked love." Maybe huh? But self-love is pretty darn gratifying and filling. The depression went away after a couple of months.

Noodle's regiment is nice! good list Noodle. Oh and by the way you didn't "Make Me" talk about anything. I say that subjects that make me uncomfortable are very good to talk about. Extensively. In detail. Because bringing it out to the light, helps.

((((bjb))))

HillBillie I loved your nice long post.

((((oxfinx)))
((((everyone))))

Kev I am really glad to hear that Validation helps. Yes, it helps everything! So glad!

As to pain management after Surgery, if it were me, I'd take an Opiate, addictive personality and all. It's so much easier to get off of. Of course you have to watch out for addiction and maybe have someone help you watch out ... but I'm going to tell every MD on the Planet that I am ALLERGIC to Tramadol ... and any Benzos ...




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by 2Sue, Apr 15, 2009
Hi i think 24 days off tram .
message to Denim, im getting depressive symptoms post tram,have had for about two weeks now,  theres no anxiety, im starting to think this is me and i need help.I dont know what with though.
I tapered down for 2 months and although thats what worked for me,it was still hell,more anxiety than ever,i think being on the lower doses were worse.
my aunt is still storing her tram. she actually give them to me to dispose of,fortunately i havnt had cravings for them.
well done emily, and to you all have have fought not only tram but other substances..im reading still. your fight and strentgh is amazing.  

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by kevzx81, Apr 15, 2009
Congrats on your first drug free day Emily :)

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by phoenix72, Apr 15, 2009
Thank God that this work day is over with.  If people keep asking me to psychoanalyze their cases anymore I'm going to scream!  I can't even think straight much less be able to look at this damn screen to type.  Thank god I'm not dealing with any clients.  I would have screwed them up today for sure.  Well even if I was scheduled to see one today, I would cancel, because that's not ethical.  And yes, the stapler did talk to me, it said that I should throw it.  And it also said to keep working cause that's going to help.  Work my way through it.  I just want to lie down now.  That won't happen soon, but I do look forward to it.  
On a more positive note, Emily, congrats on your first drug free day from me as well.  It takes a lot of stamina and strength to do what you are doing.  Kudos!  To everyone else, keep on keepin on and I hope all is well with you.
Cindy

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by noodlegrl, Apr 15, 2009
YAY Emily! Woo Hoo!! *Dance Magic Dance*

Sue - sorry your having depression - I suggested some things above for Denim you might could try.

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by noodlegrl, Apr 15, 2009
Cindy - yay! I am not the only one! lol

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by bodegirl, Apr 15, 2009
Welcome newcomers!

Congratulations Emily!!  You ROCK!!!!  And the bug story cracked me UP!  The worst is OVER! HOORAY!

Day 46 for me and I'm basically symptom free, besides some depression.   Though I am pretty high functioning despite the depression.  Working, playing, running(hooray) actually thinking of training for some races again, and cooking some good meals for my fam.  Still kinda isolating and not comfortable in large social situations, but I'm hopeful that will pass soon.

To all those having depression:  I can relate!
I've decided to talk to my doctor about an anti-depresssant.  Sue, have you considered this?
I have struggled with some depression in the past...way before tramadol and just wonder if maybe I have a chemical imbalance and maybe an anti-depressant would help? I've never taken any med besides gabapentin and the EVIL tramadol, so I have no experience with anti-dpressants.  Does anyone have any input there?  I know tramadol has a hidden antidpressant in it...maybe thats part of why I liked it so much?  

Keep on rockin everyone!!

xo bode








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by phoenix72, Apr 15, 2009
Bodegirl,
I have struggled with depression on and off for a while now.  I was put on some antidepressants.  They are nothing like whatever they have in the devil pill.  I was on Celexa for a while and then was changed over to wellbutrin with an addition of another antidepressant to help.  (I am sorry, but I cannot for the life of me remember at this moment what the second one was.  Still on day one of being completely without Tram.)  I can tell you this both personally and professionally, getting on the right antidepressant is a **** shoot.  They will start you on one depending on how long you have been having these feelings, or lack thereof, and what types of symptoms you are having.  More than likely they will put you on an SSRI.  These are "hot" right now, for lack of a better term, in regards to being the "in" and most effective antidepressants out there.  This is where I strongly caution you, you are at the mercy of the physician prescribing you the medication.  They do not know how you may react to a certain antidepressant.  They will try you out on one and monitor you.  I had the unfortunate experience of being put on one, Effexor, and after a few days of being on it, I felt like I was going to shoot off the face of the earth.  I had extreme panic attacks and thought I was going to die.  Unfortunately right now, this is the best method psychiatrists have.  It is unfortunate.  Until the science of the brain goes further, we are kind of stuck in the dark ages on what helps our brain and what does not.  I do have to say though, the last combination was one that worked for me.  It was very helpful to find the combination that worked.  I did not have the "gray" feelings anymore, and on the other hand I did not feel that I was very elated.  I felt even.  I don't know if that makes sense.  I just felt that I could handle life.  I am happy to say that I am now off of the antidepressants and have not been feeling the depression that I had felt before.  I sincerely hope that it does not change now that I have gone off this stupid pill, but everything in stride, right?  Now one more thing.  I did say previously that this was also in my professional opinion as well as personal.  I need to say that I am not a medical doctor, I am a Clinical Social Worker who has worked in the field of mental health for many many years and have worked with psychiatrists for the same amount.  A good one will tell you the same thing I just told you.  Anyway, hope something in that rambling mess made any sense.

Counting down the hours till the kids go to bed.  Can't wait.  Definately much harder tonight.  Can barely move.  Take care all.
Cindy

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by oxfinx, Apr 15, 2009
i remember when i couldnt wait for for the kids to go to bed so i would stop being an arse to them. no matter how much i tried to be conscious of my actions, tones, words, mannerisms with them and my wife, i was still a mean, mean arse to them. the best thing i could be was stare at the clock till it got down to routine time and then it was over. the only thing that kept things in check sometimes was going outside afterward to smoke a joint and reflect on what i did that day and night and THEN the remorse really set in. i guess i wanted to suffer myself for what i was doing to them. i still feel i did the best i could with what i had and after i smoked and thought, i would make it point almost every night (since i was "Big Bad Daddy" just about every day and night on tram) to go into each of the kids rooms and apologize to them and reassure them i really do love them and i wasnt mad at "them" that dad was just frustrated. it is amazing how kids can understand those words and it would make me almost cry when i would hear "It's OK daddy" and i would receive instant forgiveness from them. the tram wouldnt let me cry but the pot at least made me feel like i could. i dont know if them being so young is a good or bad thing. i guess time will tell later in life when they either remind me what bad dad i was or hopefully they remember that we simply had rough times but my love was always true and mabey they will laugh and say it coulda been worse. i better stop on that or ill be up another night analyzing what "could be" in the "future". thanks cindy for for makeing me think about it though as it only makes me think of how great i have it now. i dont "wait for bedtime" i dont count down the clock, i do try to keep a routine but i let things go if it doesnt go the way i wanted it to. i can now let them drag their little feet when getting dressed. im not ordering them to do what i want and before giveing them the time to even take into their brain what i said, get frustrated it wasnt done before i said to do it and then doing it for them just to get it done so i wouldnt want it done anymore, any of that make sence, i hope so. it's not right but it is what is was. makes me more thankful everyday of what i have. even with the wife. of course we have or misunderstandings, disagreements, and rough moments, but we can overcome,make-up,get a better understanding of each other now. back then i was the only one haveing the misunderstanding, i would disagree FOR her and then yell at her for it. a rough moment would have been a good time. again cindy, thanks for reminding me what i have now.

THANKS again

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by bjb97, Apr 15, 2009
Welcome Newcomers.  You will find site to be your safe haven, your security blanket, your place to share and vent without being judged.

Bravo Emily.  Bravo Me (3 weeks Tram free) and (drum roll) BRAVO EVERYONE!!  What Warriors we are!!

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by phoenix72, Apr 15, 2009
Ox,
I bet you're a great dad!  You just look at yourself in a bad light.  At least that is what I tell myself when I think of myself that way.   And yes, I get every word you said.  It especially hit home with me with the instant forgiveness from them.  I feel like I am being the most horrible mother on earth and yet I don't think I give them enough credit for what they understand.  They are still young, however, I don't think young enough where they don't have an inkling about empathy.  It still doesn't matter to me though.  I still think I am horrible and I so desparately want to do it better next time.  Maybe I should take my own advice and cut myself some slack:)  Anyway, I very much appreciate you and your words.  
I cannot sleep right now.  I even took some of that Tylenol PM and didn't touch me.  I hurt so bad, I want to cry and then I want to curse like a sailor.  And that horrible RLS.  I have had that awful stuff on and off throughout my entire life, and tonight's bout just about ***** the big one.  Even with the worst case of flu, I was still able to sleep.  I don't know what I will do if I can't fall asleep.  And forget about this nonsense of not sleeping for a week or two.  I'm sure to go postal.

Congratulations bjb97.  I am sure envying you right about now.  Love to get out of the first couple of weeks.  I can't believe I am looking forward to surgery just so I can be knocked unconscious for awhile.  That is seriously messed up!  Well peace everyone.  

Cindy

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by kevzx81, Apr 15, 2009
Hi Everyone, Ive been catching up on posts and mail and one thing sticks out in common- Depression. As well as w/d depression there is also pre-med depression.

I dont think that depression is a feeling in itself,more a feeling or set of feelings we are 'depressed by'. When I am depressed I am depressed by feelings of failure,worthlessness,abandonment and despair. So I would validate these seperately. Zen Cake Making- unmake the cake lol.....

I think if we treat depression as 'one thing' we will meet a wall so to speak, so I look at the bricks. Maybe thats why depression is hard to confront...it always has its buddies with it.

Re Meds and depression- My depression was made worse by meds and proved self-healable. Im incredibly glad that I tried the therapeutic option and I would encourage anyone to at least give it a try. I remember Emily saying about w/ds
" one day at a time, one hour,or minute..even a second at a time if thats all you can manage". Feelings can to some degree be treated with equivalence ie a layer at a time. We dont have to face down huge fanged slavering Demons on
day 1. But whatever small progress we make,the improvement to our happiness is fairly immediate.

Emily- MASSIVE HUGS AND CONGRATULATIONS (((EMILY))).  I long to see you have the rest and renewed happiness that youve fought so long and hard to achieve. Its painful to see such discomfort in someone who has gifted me so kindly.
I hope its really truly over now. Im feeling 'full of beans' today so Im wishing a barrowload your way......



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by EmilyPost, Apr 16, 2009
((((((Cindy)))))))) I know! Holy Moly! Poor freakity frack you! Not Fun! Honestly I could harm any of these MD's who are so free and easy with handing out the Tramadol as the end all be all of pain meds. Non addictive; Gluteous Maximus Dude!

That people in pain are further victimized is so so so so so wrong. It offends me on a deep personal meaningful level that this ATROCITY is being forced on an unsuspecting innocent lot of people. Tramadol is soul deadening! It's so hard to get off of and so ..  insidiously takes hold. UGG! Yes, the sleeplessness.

*fires you from job at Post Office*

*disarms you, including any and all office supplies*

*hands you chamomile Tea, Bach's rescue remedy and some lavender oil*


After all the taper suffering I can safely say that Tramadol withdrawal disabled me MORE than a really really long (I'd say it was SIX MONTHS of tapering) benzo taper.

That's really bad!

So I remember the early days VERY WELL!

And what you wrote about Anti Depressants and the process of getting the right one is absolutely correct in my experience. They have no way of telling what will work, you just have to try it. AND after my Benzo experience; there's no way any of those crazies could get near me with a Depression Diagnosis and get me to take them.

Bode, I really hope you'll consider what your body and mind and heart are suffering not just from the Tramadol withdrawal (which is bad enough) but from the miscarriage. I have been there, and it is devastating and I can only say; Feel Your Feelings. Grieve, and let yourself feel.

Awweeee Kev! You are such a Doll! I regret now that I stole your beans! :D

You write, "I long to see you have the rest and renewed happiness that youve fought so long and hard to achieve. Its painful to see such discomfort in someone who has gifted me so kindly.
I hope its really truly over now. Im feeling 'full of beans' today so Im wishing a barrowload your way......


Aweee! Thanks so much Kev! I'mma little scared and cautiously optimistic. I am hoping I won't be sick with klonopin withdrawal much longer or even ever again!

2Sue you wrote, "my aunt is still storing her tram. she actually give them to me to dispose of,fortunately i havnt had cravings for them.
well done emily, and to you all have have fought not only tram but other substances..im reading still. your fight and strentgh is amazing."

I'm not feeling that strong actually because I would say that last part of tapering Klonopin was kind of like being tortured. Only I was both the Torture Inflictor and the Victim. Which would only make sense if you had tapered a Benzo. Truly ...sleeplessness ... derealization was completely awful. I felt Bionic for awhile.  It's all really awful and OMG .. Prolonged .. holy moly the earth will explode from my Fury if it turns out that I suffer Mass Withdrawal after tapering so carefully and for so long.

I'll go so Postal the Post Master General will have to show up and talk me down ... in his General Suit even! Uniform, better word. Did I mention that my word recognition is all Funky? I told Mister Emily tonight when he was talking about how good the Ham is (which he is soooooooo right!) that the Ham was a "good antidote." LMAO! hahaha

He actually stopped and stared at me and then laughed. Cause it's funny! If you knew me; you'd laugh! So unlike me.  Mister Emily and I met in a writing class! So ... to see me use the incorrect word so confidently is hilarious and unnerving to us both.

:D I thought Hmmm so weird ; that was the right word ... IN MY HEAD!

So yeah I am weak, confused and exhausted BUT NO LONGER ON DRUGS! No longer slowly poisoning myself while the Doctors told me to keep taking pills. I hate you you awful awful people! You bad bad Doctors! *writes letter* *shakes fist* *Throws stapler*

Yeah and ... the whole "See your Doctor" about XY and Z .. I had Doctors that were SUPPOSED to be good .. highly educated, successful Docs tell me I needed pills that have made me ill. There's no use arguing, They were terrible! In very way a Servant of Deamons! (love that spelling ... I'mma use that from now on ...)

Anyhow the ranting ends up with me telling you 2Sue to really flush the tablets if you are in any way lured by Tramadol. Don't give it any chances if you know you will take it again.

Me? Um wild horses would have to hold me down to get me to take anything at the moment...........


Oxfinx writes, " i would make it point almost every night (since i was "Big Bad Daddy" just about every day and night on tram) to go into each of the kids rooms and apologize to them and reassure them i really do love them and i wasnt mad at "them" that dad was just frustrated. it is amazing how kids can understand those words and it would make me almost cry when i would hear "It's OK daddy" and i would receive instant forgiveness from them. the tram wouldn't let me cry but the pot at least made me feel like i could. i don't know if them being so young is a good or bad thing. i guess time will tell later in life when they either remind me what bad dad i was or hopefully they remember that we simply had rough times but my love was always true and maybe they will laugh and say it coulda been worse."

This all makes me feel ... God, so much! That made me so very sad for My now very Dead Dad because ... really if he'd EVER just said he was deeply sorry and told me he'd loved me, of course his forgiveness would have been instant!

((((((((((Oxfinx))))))))) I swear you are a good Dad because it's all about showing them how Humans should behave. You are loving and kind, makes me feel so happy you found us and will recover. Really well said.

bjb writes, "Welcome Newcomers.  You will find site to be your safe haven, your security blanket, your place to share and vent without being judged."

So true! The only thing not allowed here is to praise Tramadol to  the high sky and say where we can all buy it online. But no. we won't judge people since we've all been on the other side of that for a long time.......

Love and Healing,
Emily






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by FinallyFred, Apr 16, 2009
Phoenix,  Please don't be quiet for heavens sake!  Post away.  If you were to go back to the place when most of us began our withdrawal, you would find that many of us posted just as much, or more, than you are doing.  I know that I did.  Like Emily just said, when she began her journal, there was nobody else posting to her entires.  But she kept on writing.    All alone.  Who knows what can happen when we are honset and faithful to our feelings?  (((Emily)))

You said, "If it's a war this stupid little drug wants, a war it will get.  It does help to be on here and post and read what others say.  I think right now that is my saving grace.  Just to know that it will pass in time is fine for now."  You  sound pretty darned determined Cindy and that's a good thing.  In two more days of work , you can maybe take it easy and get some help?  I suppose St. Noodle will need to make way for another tramadol warrior able to work through this withdrawal?    If your husband has any doubt about the difficulty of the THANG you are undertaking, invite him over for a peek at this place.  I know I did that.  Most people have no idea what withdrawal from this drug is like.  Even the most loving, well intended of people can't understand the difficulty of what you are IN THE PROCESS OF DOING RIGHT NOW..  

Like I have said before (though not in a while), during my own withdrawal - the first couple days, my wife would routinely inquire, "how are you feeling, honey?"  And the first couple times she asked, I was fairly detailed and exact in my response.  By the end of 2nd day, it was, "how are you feeling NOW, honey?"  Like much had changed.  I was tempted to tell her that I felt precisely the same as when she asked me two hours before, but I sort of learned that as sweet as she is, she wasn't prepared for the sort of acute withdrawal that lasted INTENSELY for 3-5 days or so.  So pretty soon, I simply answered, FINE, I'm just fine sweetheart.  But of course I was NOT all that fine.   One person, "SweetDaddy" or some such name, told us that he had successfully withdrawn fron alcohol, cigs, METH, cocain, weed, nordo and even HEROIN, but he had never experienced anything like THIS before.  If I recall correctly, we had one or two posts from him and we never heard from him again.

I had it relatrively EASY; I wasn't working that week (my tramadol vacaztion) and I had no kids to care for at home.  What you are DOING Phoenix, is tough.  I can only hope that your husband has a hot bath poured and dinner handled when you arrive home the next couple days.  

Random Thoughts:  

(1) I was reading my big book today and I came across a quote that I think is applicable to our tramadol addiction.  p 317,   "I am no longer at the mercy of a disease that tells me that the only answer is to drink."   (insert ___)

(2) Plea:  If anyone still has a stash of trams laying around, flush them please NOW.  I kept some around after I stopped taking them for a month or so, and really wasn't tempted to take them.  But a friend here suggested I flush them and the next day, I was feeling low and the thought of taking some trams seemed appealing.  No telling whether I would have taking one or not, but I was sure glad the toilet worked the night before.

So, yeah, I'm pretty danged gratful that I am no longer at the mercey of tramadol addiction, which addiction tells me that the only answer is to pop more little white pills.

Bodegrl,  RE: anti-depressents, that may be a worthwhile idea to talk with your doctor...provided it isn't the same one who prescribed the harmless, non-opiate analgesic little white pill. LOL   With our history, I would be asking the good doctor whether you can (1) build up a tolerance to the drug he prescribes, and (2) whether the drug MAY be habit forming given your history.  Ya know?  At the same time, maybe he has some other ideas for dealing with the depression.  Kev here has discussed some ideas.  I really like the notion of separating the "bricks" from the "brick wall".

(((Kev)))  You come out with some of the most thought provoking stuff, you know?  Like, "I dont think that depression is a feeling in itself,more a feeling or set of feelings we are 'depressed by'. When I am depressed I am depressed by feelings of failure,worthlessness,abandonment and despair. So I would validate these seperately. Zen Cake Making- unmake the cake lol.....

I think if we treat depression as 'one thing' we will meet a wall so to speak, so I look at the bricks. Maybe thats why depression is hard to confront...it always has its buddies with it."    

REALLY GOOD STUFF TO CONSIDER.

bjb, Congratulations on 21 days.  YAY.  (where's the art work when you need it)  

AS A MATTER OF FACT, I find it hillarious that MedMelp contantly adds new "features" here, like promotions for sleep number beds, and other promotions, but they haven't figured out how to include a spell check.   Humpft!  But I don't mean to complain (much).  This place saved my life.  So I suppose I would use "white out" on the monitor if I had to - in order  to stay connected with my peeps here.

Noodle, I always get a great deal from reading your posts.  You said, "Perfectionists and Pleasers. I am definitely a pleaser more than a perfectionist but I have that prob too. And for a long time, maybe I have been trying to please the wrong people. Trying to be perfect for the wrong people and or reasons. It is way past time for me to figure myself out and change what needs to be changed (I know some, but not all of my issues). I worry tramadol may have altered my sanity. But watch out, change is a coming and the old noodle might have to scoot on out and give a new noodle a chance, if the new noodle can be strong enough to make it out."  

That's the spirit kid.  Not that any of us wants to be "contrary" just to prove a point, but perfectionism and people pleasing KILLS bad.  And even though I can type these words, I know that I will probably always have a difficult time NOT being this way.

But if we apply (one of) Kev's  theorys and disect our desire to be perfect, I am wondering if the "bricks" inside that brick wall, might not be a "fear" of failing?  Fear of being thought "less than"?  Fear of being abandoned or left out?  

I'm going to try to remember these things when my alarm goes off in the morning.  I'll keep you all posted on how it works.

Good Night to All (I hope)

Fred


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by FinallyFred, Apr 16, 2009
Emily, apparently we both were writing a "book" tonight, so I i hadn't seen your last post before i hit "post".  You are sounding really good, you know?  Interesting that you met Mister Emily (now you have me smiling) at a writing class.  

The REALLY frightening thing (in a good way) is that none of have "seen" you  when you haven't been withdrawing from the tram.  Six months?  Yowsers!   Not to put pressure on you, but I can see really great things for you and this forum going forward.  

Goodnight, I'm half asleep right now...Fred

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by dontbelieve, Apr 16, 2009
howdy all,

So I am sitting here reading Emilys bug story damn near falling out of my chair. I would have been right there with you.

I am not so much afraid of bugs...I dont like praying mantis's they got big eyes that freak me out. Spiders? I run.
Now growing up in the country we always had a wood pile that every winter was our heat. We covered it with the tarp and when it was snowing it was always my job to go load up the wooden sled and drag the wood up to the porch. I knew everytime I was going to encounter a spider. Spiders love dark warm places full of bugs...aka covered wood pile...Oh how i feared the wood pile. So fast forward 20+ years. This literally happened last week.

I was in the shower...I just woke up...the hot water hits me and I'm starting to wake up. Out of the corner of my eye something moves by the shower window...i look up nothing there. So my normal paranoid self I dont want to start washing my hair until I know for sure its not a spider just waiting for the opportunity to pounce on me and eat my brain....oh I am wide awake now! So I continue every 20 seconds or so to look at the window sill because now i am certian its a monster spider. Finally about 3 minutes go by and I reach for the shampoo....and out pops a BLACK WIDOW from the window sill...In my mind its got 50 legs and its as big as me and the fangs are the size of my arms and its looking at me licking its lips...it wants to eat me!. So I quickly take inventory of spider killing devices in the area...ok...I'm in the shower...no clothes or shoes...thats out. I see my wifes puff thingy for the body soap...not hard enough...shampoo bottle!..no..its on the floor and I aint bending over to pick it up...ahha water!...no that will just **** it off and I will die for sure....so with all my options failing I decide the only thing to do run from the shower screaming "spider!!!" ...."SPIDER!!!"  Here comes the good part....wait for it....so my wonderful wife who is ready to deliver any day comes running in the house from the garage thinking I yelled "FIRE!" So shes screaming "where!!" and I, still totally naked...in a not so calm voice yelled "its in the shower!!!" Now my wife thinks there is a FIRE in the shower?....and I ran from it instead of using the water to put it out?!..(.A little background...normally my wife will kill spiders for me...yeah I am a spider sissy...) So she heads to the shower and yells back "where!" and I am thinking holy mother of god this thing is lose in the bedroom now!!!...and shes looking for a fire...in the shower...so I finally decide I must save my wife....I grab a flip flop and a cowboy boot...i couldnt remember just how big this thing was....and I start running toward her...still totally naked....now with a size 12 boot and her flip flop on my hands...screaming " get out the way woman!!!" (Holy **** I am amazed she didnt call the people in the White lab coats on me....) I start to attack the window in the shower with a flip flop and a cowboy boot like some sort of deranged spider monkey...and I ask her again not so calmly..."did I get it!!!??" she looks at me like I am Hannibal Lector and says..." UH...I dont see it..." So I tell her still a bit panicky...."it was just right there!" Now my wife knows that coming off meds has been a bit of a struggle and I havent been sleeping all that well but i haven't been running around the house seeing imaginary fires....until now. So I still a bit freaked out look back at her and tell her I swear it was there in the window sill and it must be around here somewhere!...and just then the spider peeks up over the window sill again while my back is turned talking to my wife and she sees it...so she says to me..." dont freak out but there is a spider on the window sill behind you..." ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!....again I am off to the races...out of the shower headed for the safety of the garage...when the door to the garage opens...again quick inventory in my head....I am naked in the hallway...wifey is killing the spider in the shower...nobody else lives with us....and the dog can't open the door....Once again panic sets in....I still have the boot and flip flop on my hands...Apparently my wifes sister and her kids were on the way over when my wife heard me yell what she thought was "FIRE!" but was really "SPIDER!" and she left the garage door open so instead of knocking at the front door they just decided to come on in...so I throw myself down the hall into the bedroom and slam the door....which makes my wife give me that look again like she was about to call the psyche ward....For the love of god.....So finally the spider was killed...I continued the shower still checking the window sill waiting for the spider to pull a "terminator" move on me and come back to life....My wife realized I wasn't indeed trying to put out an imaginary shower fire and the sister understood why I slammed the door on her and the kids. ALL of this for a damn spider!.....So with that I say...EMILY you are not alone.

I have been having these little discussions with my wife which are indeed eye opening. I have realized 3 things about myself that have come about with out the toxic meds in my body....

1. I have become a VAMPIRE....Ok I havent been drinking blood or anything crazy (not to offend the blood drinkers out there..if thats your thing..) I just cannot be awake with the sun. I have been falling asleep about 6am and getting up around 4pm....which makes sense due to my normal work schedule of graves...but even then I hide in my garage until the sun is almost down before I venture into the outside world....

2. I apparently have a bottomless pit for a stomach....I eat every two hours. I have this craving for food...( it must be kinda like the blood thing for the blood drinkers out there) I eat my normal three meals a day....and my not normal 4 in between. and then theres the snacks...

3. Cigarettes do not smell so good after all.... I apparently never noticed because my sense of smell and for the most part taste was almost non existant....I have been smoking since I was like 15 and nobody else in my family smokes...just me. So I can now understand why my mom made me start washing my own clothes....at 15....I dont yet understand why my smell is like 50x better than it was but IT *****!!!....

I am sure there are more things I will come to realize...like a big one...I am not in my 20's anymore....Perhaps I should not get on that skate board my 10yr nephew got for Christmas....Who knows maybe I am that Dorky uncle that my 17 yr. old niece thinks of as the strange guy who listens to the Doors...and likes ac/dc....I am sure my son will one day look at me and say...   " you know Dad, I dont really like Johnny Cash"...and I will probably wash his mouth out with soap...lol.

The crazy thing is I never had these thoughts to myself while I was on meds. I told my wife yesterday one thing I really miss is going out camping and river rafting and just being outdoors in general. I hated being inside. Now I have a recliner in my garage...with a t.v and a xbox hooked up to it. What the hell happened? How did I become a couch potato...just watching tv all day?!...I cant allow myself to stay this way. I dont want my kids raised on video games....I wasn't. For me just finding those kind of things is my motivation to say " never again can I allow myself to be addicted to anything...other than my family. "

Like everyone has been saying, its a scary thought if you know you are going to have surgery and be in pain afterward...what will you be able to do about that pain in recovery...more pain meds?...well more than likely, thats the case. And just like everyone knows theres that first time you take it and you feel this rush of happiness, euphoria....and you allow yourself to think well i feel better so maybe its not so bad...but think back to how you are feeling now...or how you felt 2 days after being out. I was off ultram for almost 3 weeks before I got my very first kidney stone. I had ultram licked. So much so that I told the doctor at the ER if you give me ultram I will not take it. But I never would have survived without something for pain. So after 3 weeks of getting the posion out of my body....vicoden became my bestest friend!....I passed 5 stones in 3 weeks. Finally the xray showed I was done. But I was freaking out about going through withdrawls all over again. Hell for my stones they had me on 2 10/500 vicoden every 4 hours. And i thanked god for that everytime a stone came rolling down. Luckily or me the withdrawls were not nearly as bad as the ultram...so in a way it gives me hope that even after surgery on my neck which I am being told if I dont have in the near future I will not be able to walk...I will be able to once again tell my docs...no more refills. And If that doesnt work I will come in here and say hey ya'll Im gonna need some help again...and I know you folks in here will be here to listen to me complain about my damn twitchin legs and all my other crazy symptoms.

On a lighter side like Emily said...Sometimes she means her posts to be funny...

Some times I dont mean em to be that way but thats just how they end up...and other times I want to bring some humor in here and hopefully put a smile on someones face for at least the time they are reading my post. I do the same thing at home to the point where my wife says " ok...its time to put on the serious hat..." And I look at her and smile and say " well you go look through my hats and tell me which one will make me look serious..."  Funny...she never finds that hat.....

I do think that humor is a great medicine and if for no other reason i will tell my crazy life stories to make someone smile, and If it might help someone else with their stuggles I will tell my not so funny stories too. So if ever someone needs a good laugh you just say " hillbilly...make me chuckle" ..I'll bet I can find a story for that......and If I can't someone else in here will...

Take care all...

The Hillbilly

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by Shadetree, Apr 16, 2009
Hello Everyone,

Hillbilly you crack me up! It is funny how your mind visualizes when you hear or read a story... I pictured my husband and me, and my sister in my house...lol so funny. And Emily ur bug story was funny too. But I actually pictured you...You guys raise my spirits every time I read your posts. I am so thankful for this site...

So, I feel like Im planning a trip.  A trip to hell...(I hope it isnt that bad). But I am preparing for the worst.  I have the rest of the pills narrowed down to decrease very fast and by next wednesday they will be gone. I really am looking forward to it. I am gathering supplies and will probably work on thursday (if I can) I will at least come in and if I feel like complete ***, then I will go home that way they will see me "sick" and I can call in on friday. I will have 5 days to get over the worst. I would do this sooner but this weekend is my baby girls birthday and I want it to be great for her... So next week it is. Plus they will be gone so no tempatations. And I know I have you all every step of the way... :) My security blanket


Congratulations Emily! I feel your excitement(maybe slight... huh?), fear, accoplishment, relief...ect.

I love you guys! Thank you for being here for me!

~Shade

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by noodlegrl, Apr 16, 2009
Day 22 - I am still a little sad but I am ok today. So glad the weekend is almost here :)

Ok, ya'lls bug stories are funny. I have one, not as good as ya'lls but here goes. A couple days ago, I was getting ready to load the dishwasher. I opened the cabinet to get my rubber gloves (cannot do dishes without them, I'm weird about food particles and nasty grease on my hands *sticks tongue out*) and noticed we have a leak under our sink, yay, this means giant water bugs. I reach for my gloves and turn my head to tell my hubby of leak. So as I am turning my head I see this HUGE water bug crawling out of my rubber glove *insert squeal 1* the bug proceeds to take flight toward my head *insert extended squeal 2 and weird dance jump out of the way move* the bug u-turns in front of me and lands in the dishwasher *runs towards dishwasher and slams door shut* *heavy breathing and creepy crawly feelings*. Mr. Noodle has to come and locate the bug in the dishwasher between pots and pans that had already been put in there and he finally gets it and kills it. Water bugs are the worst... they are like giant **** roaches that scare the bejeebies out of me. I used to not be squeamish with bugs but as I have gotten older, I dunno, that changed. Praying mantis' and stick bugs - like to look at them from a distance but if they get anywhere near ME on their own accord *shudder* I spaz.

Bode - I feel that your recent miscarriage probably has a lot to do with your lingering depression. I think time will help but if its too much make sure you know all you can about anything your prescribed from your doctor. I also agree with Emily that you need to let yourself have some of these feelings and really feel them, validate them and that in itself would help you tremendously. I know its hard - but I am sooooo anti drugs right now. LOL. So that is only my opinion.

About looking forward to kids going to bed - I am also guilty of this. I feel really bad about it but dang once they are in bed I could go into isolation mode and just be numb without worrying about them being little spazzes and getting me angry which in turn would make me get upset with them and rush them along and be hard on them. I feel these feeling starting to ease though. Thank GOD because I would be in a very difficult position if this didn't get better. I would only take the Trams during the day so by night time when the effects were wearing off etc the ***** would come out of me. I hope the ***** is gone now, for good.

Cindy - your doing great. With your profession you have a lot to contribute to our legacy! I wish I had the aptitude, courage, and social skills to be a Social Worker or counselor! Although I am sure sometimes it would be hard (emotionally) I think it would be very fulfilling at times.

*Does a dance for BJB* <-- haha I typed it right :) Congrats!!

Kev - your so deep and insightful. You are mastering validation and layer revealing. I am coming to realize that feelings and how our minds work are SOOO much more COMPLEX than I would/could ever have imagined... but I was numb for a long time sooooo... But knowing that subconscious thoughts can directly impact how we are feeling on the outside is hard to grasp because it makes me feel not in control and I feel I should be able to control it - which logically I know I can't but darn it.. does that even make sense? I am like Emily sometimes, the concept in my head makes sense but the words that come out do NOT necessarily adequately represent the thought in my head (or seems to me it doesn't). Bleh.

Sue - Flush them! The only reason to keep them is if you plan on taking them and that would be BAD, HORRIBLE, the WORST thing ever. So please, flush.

Emily - So so so so HAPPY for you!! SIX MONTHS! Whoa, dude. Wow... I would dead by now. Just wow. Didn't know it was THAT long! *hugs* Won't be long till the "Fat Lady" sings "Hallelujah! Hallelujah!"

Fred - I will gladly make room on my little pedestal of "Working Withdrawalers". I am happy that you get something from reading my posts. I most definitely get a great deal from yours :) And no, I most certainly do not want to be contrary, just strong with my own convictions and more lenient with others so maybe I will be better at finding compromise instead of always being the one to sacrifice (this goes for things large and small). There I go again feeling like my thoughts aren't coming across good with my words.... It will have to do for now.

Hillbilly - you have such a humorous way with words. If ever I laugh and your not trying to be funny, I sorry.. but you bring it on yourself with your comic relief! LoL.

Well, this is all I have time for right now.

With Hope and Hugs for all!
~Noodle


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by noodlegrl, Apr 16, 2009
Shade - LOL yes, I also got quite a visual from the bug stories too! Happy B-day to your little girl! And yay, the time is so close to being free. I'm sooo happy for you :) And of course always here to listen if you need.

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by Shadetree, Apr 16, 2009
Thank you noodle,

I am already feeling a sence of relief. That is how it has always been the pills whatever they may be, when they were gone I would be so relieved they didnt hav control anymore if only for a short time : /
Thank you for all your support! I appreciate it!

Talk to ya soon... :)

~Shade

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by kevzx81, Apr 16, 2009
Yes HillBilly-you got me rolling on the floor too. As they say 'you couldnt make it up' ! Maybe this is lifes way of going zen on us...to confront us with such absurd dramas that our babbling minds are rendered speechless!!! Theres so much absurdity around us but for pure comic relief the spider story deserves putting to film, Im cracking up to myself again now just reliving the visual in my head.......keep it coming!!!!

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by kevzx81, Apr 16, 2009
HillBilly-PS I live on the norfolk broads; LOTS OF DUCKS...youll have to drop in for some duck soup some time....

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by phoenix72, Apr 16, 2009
Hey all,
So glad to hear everyone chattering :)  Or I guess read, I should say.  There were so many great things I read, and I wish that I had the frame of mind to respond to everything, but I just simply don't.  Did not sleep last night.  Worst night of my life.  I've done a lot of drugs in my life and this one takes the cake.  And damn, how I wanted that cake:)  
<>  I can't begin to tell you how much your words mean to me.  I especially liked you referencing Bill W.  Thank you.  Right now, I feel that I have somehow let down my "recovery" and that I am at square one all over again.  What you say truly means a lot to me.  I can't thank you enough.  

<> Oh my god dude, you are so freaking funny!  :)  Thank you for the pick me up today.  

<> You will have to keep the saint title.  I totally could not function today so I stayed home from work.  Hats off to ya sister.:)

<>I love your posts.  You have a great way with words.  I just love reading your posts.

<>I thought maybe you were a writer.  You are very eloquent in your posts and can paint the best picture in my head.  Love ya girl!  

I would love to write more, but my brain is mush right now.  Need to rest.  
Peace be with you all.
Cindy

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by phoenix72, Apr 16, 2009
Okay ,
so for some reason it didn't post the names to the little brackets that i put in there.
the first one in the paragraph is to fred, the secodn one is to hillbilly, the third is to noodle, the fourth is to kev and the last one is to emily.  damn computer.
cindy

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by bodegirl, Apr 16, 2009
Cindy, Emily, Fred, Kev, Noodle:  Thank you for your input.  I am so anti drugs too(noodle), and I think I should try to wait it out, but I'm a little torn b/c if there is a chemical imbalance and a med can help quality of life, is it worth trying?  Or maybe I just need to practice feeling pain and sadness and remorse and sit with those feelings..... ugh!

I don't know, I have to think about this more.

I will keep ya'll posted.  

Hugs to all.

Thank you again for keepin it real!
xo bode

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by priceiswright, Apr 16, 2009
Emily you really do sound like your old self again. I'm proud of you. CONGRATS

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by EmilyPost, Apr 16, 2009
No. NO!

No.

Ouchie. Boo!

Well. This *****. Let's hope it gets better. Ok so I was expecting this. Sort of.



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by kevzx81, Apr 16, 2009
Bode- I think its likely to be a very personal decision for all who face pain etc after tram. I think youre right that its down to quality of life. I can give a good example. Ive used marijuana both recreationally and for pain control. It would seem logical then that I make use of this drug,it has a benign reputation,can be used in a vaporizer(non-carcinogenic) and is physically non addictive. But it creates BIG fog. Its weakness is that it creates a sense of ease AND an easily distactable mind so its potential for psychological addiction will vary greatly between users. Tramadol put me off POT.. thats like really heavy and profooooound man........(sorry lol, no insult to any social group intended).

Its likely to be a similar and varying story with anything we put in our bodies I think. I think we might be unwittingly looking for something which can affect us without our feeling affected by it...that might be a tall order.

If mobility is a serious issue for a person or pain is chronic (add your reason here) compromises may help live a wider life. I cant believe that well directed use of an opiate is worse than extremes of isolation or immobilty for instance.

<<>> In my opinion we would benefit from getting to know our pain,inner and outer more closely without meds to see what it is EXACTLY that we might wish to medicate ..alternatively we can put our trust in the white coats to tell us.

Bode- I understand ( I think) why you say 'ugh!' I have 'ugh!" too. In my family feelings were treated like dirt.......if I felt miserable as a child I was told to 'come back when you take that look off your face' etc etc etc...feelings were derided, mocked,scorned and even shamed. I was specifically told by mother  'forget about your feelings, Ive enough to worry about'. Obstacle obstacles......

Fred-Bricks and fear of failing. I thinks its fear of FALLING (sort of.)the wall is made of bricks which have stood in place awhile. move them and a feeling of being 'less fixed' arises. Are we humpty dumpty if we pursue this metaphor LOL.
Layers of feeling then would be the rows top to bottom; but as ours are MAGIC bricks (lol) after we identify and validate layer 1 anger for instance it becomes transparent and we can see through to the layer/row below. (for a time at least anyway.)

Oxfinx- You clarify your own story beatifully and I agree pot can be good for encouraging feelings. The way you identify your contrary behaviour, the arguing; its such a stressful place to be. It sounds like youre somewhere much better now.
Congratulations.

Cindy-Thank you. Sorry your brain is mush right now. I have a' get out of jail free' card I play when I feel Ive let myself down whilst doing my best. The card reads; Unrealistic expectaion is the greatest source of disappointment. Im type A myself (hi Fred et al) and suffer this one a lot. Dont know if that helps, but I so dont want you to whip yourself...better to rest..by now hopefully youre doing just that.

Shade- Best wishes for your 'trip', it is that all right! Keep us posted if you can!!!

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by kevzx81, Apr 16, 2009
Emily-Im sorry the present isnt under the tree today.Hugs(emily).

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by bjb97, Apr 16, 2009
Thanks Emily & Cindy.  It will get better Cindy but I SO DO empathize with you.  During the first week of w/d I just wished they could put me under for about 5 days so I could get some rest, if nothing else.  I now have a total realization of what they mean when in war time they "break down people using sleep deprivation techniques".  Geez Louise -- I'd be one of the first ones to crack.  I NEED and LOVE my sleep.  And the restless legs ALONG WITH insomnia are just the worst.

But . . . . . it will go away and . . . . you will sleep again.  I even was able to take a 1 1/2 hr nap today (sorry Cindy, I know you must be soooooooo envious as I was of Scott as he described he much needed rest when I was in your place).  I was used to taking at least 3-5 , 2 hr naps a week when I was on the Tram -- sleep was so easy.  I had not been able to take a nap for the past 4 weeks.  And it was GOOD sleep.

I just can't get over my renewed energy levels.  I have only been a very active, high energy person with really only two speeds -- fast and stop.  But during my last 6-9 months on Tramadol I had two speeds also -- Slow (barely moving) and Stop.  How great it feels to be alive again!

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by noodlegrl, Apr 17, 2009
Day 23 (Seems like forever and only yesterday at the same time) - I am pretty good all things considered. Still not 100% (I'd say 85-90%) but considerably better than I have been for a WHILE! And didn't even realize a couple months ago how much better I could be doing for myself. So I am VERY thankful. :) I think this was all part of God's plan to help me see how much a better person I could be. Because I am striving to be an even better person than I was before Tram. I am working up the courage for a career change as well. And this economic crisis has me scared partly because I could lose my job at any moment because it is being directly effected by the housing market and also because I dunno what profession to turn to! I am pretty spoiled by my schedule and would hate it if I had to stray from it, which is probably inevitable if I plan on changing anything. Bleh =P

Randomness - MH needs to add emoticons!

Bode - you're welcome! Anything I can do to help. *Hugs*

Emily - AWWWW! Poor thing. Hope your day turns out GOOD!

Last night, Mr. Noodle and I had to have a chat (nothing bad, just needed to talk). As you all know, once you come off the devil pills you begin to realize things and have clarity about situations. Well, this has happened and we have had to address some things. And to do so, I put into effect the VALIDATION METHOD the best I knew how to do so for the situation!! And things turned out well, it led to better understanding! So I am happy about that.

Anyhoosy, hope everyone has a wonderful day today! *Hugs to everyone*

~Noodle

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by sandie1977, Apr 17, 2009
hello,

I recently found this site (yesterday) and DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE THAT TRAMADOL IS CONSIDERED A ANTIDEPRESSANT!!!!!!!!

I came off Zoloft after my x-husband had abandoned us 4 years ago. Nowhere near the effect that I am having with Tramadol withdrawl. The only symptom I found alarming was the slight dizziness I felt when I was working, reading, watching t.v., I dealt with it.  I was on 50mg a day of zoloft. I started taking half of the pill for a week or two, then got a prescription for 12.5 on that for a week or longer, then I went to every other day, and then once every 2 days until one day it dawned on me I hadnt taken a pill for two weeks.  

BUT OMG!!!!!!!!!!!

Try doing that with tramadol and the very devil (not highly religious) is saying "yer so fuuunnniiiieeeee, you really tink that you will get yer life back???  Ha Ha Ha! Have another pill."

So about 3 week ago, I went to the pharmacy to pick up yet another refill only this time they made me sign my name and get my drivers license number.  WHY? "because ma'am tramadol is a controlled substance."  Oh, really??  since when?

So that day I set an appointment with my doctor and just seen her yesterday.  I told her I dont want to be on this medication anymore and I was taking 8 a day of the 5omg tabs. But right now I am down to 3 a day. (And this has taken me about 2 weeks to get to this point)

What does she prescribe me?  None other then Cymbalta. LMFAO!  I told her I am not depressed, I am in pain and want to take something that is safe to take while pregnant (if I ever become so) and relieve my pain in my neck.

I came home with my trusty samples and looked up cymbalta. To my horror the doctor prescribed me an antidepressant that is worse or similiar to breaking like a heroine addict.

So now I am still trying to taper off, and couldnt handle the "brain swings" anymore this morning and broke down and took my first for the day.  

My symptoms are:

back sweats - absolute worst symptom for me
brain swings (dizziness)
irritability - but i am able to put on a happy face and fake happiness when I am miserable.
sadness - not often
insomnia
twitching in legs
muscle tightness - this is new for me (started 2 nights ago)
headaches - managed by motrin (as tylenol has become ineffective for me)


What scares me is when I finally do stop taking my medication ( going to do what emily did -run out of pills-)
The symtpoms will keep going on for weeks or months like some readers have stated here?

which is better? stay on and be happy -or- come off and be sad. because the antidepressant part of drug has been in my system for 2 years and now my body will probaly crash.

what exactly does vit b-12 do?
done the heating pad
ice packs,
need to buy ace wraps
will purchase tylenol pm or something similar.

i am scared -sincerely scared- dont think i am strong enough for the withdrawl.






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by EmilyPost, Apr 17, 2009
Hi Sandi :D

Glad you found us.

:D

Of course I think yiu should stop. I don't even believe that by the time you are searching "Tramadol Withdrawal" that you really believe staying on 'and being happy ...' is an option?

You can do it!

Love, Em

PS keep posting! It helps :D

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by noodlegrl, Apr 17, 2009
Sandie - HIYAS! Welcome to our little slice of the interwebs!

First - Vitamin B12 is an essential water-soluble vitamin that is commonly found in a variety of foods such as fish, shellfish, meat, and dairy products. Vitamin B12 is frequently used in combination with other B vitamins in a vitamin B complex formulation. It helps maintain healthy brain function, nerve cells, red blood cells and is also needed to make DNA, the genetic material in all cells. Vitamin B12 is bound to the protein in food. Hydrochloric acid in the stomach releases B12 from protein during digestion. Once released, B12 combines with a substance called intrinsic factor (IF) before it is absorbed into the bloodstream. B-12 also helps metabolize food into energy (especially the Complex kind).

I think that after 2 years of being on Tramadol and up to 8 pills (400mgs) a day you have probably built up a decent tolerance hence taking so many (although not as many as some have worked up to). My opinion is this - I would taper till you run out and jump off and never look back! Tramadol is evil and it makes you turn into a totally different person and most if not all don't even realize it has happened. I am one of those. Now having been off totally for 23 days I have started to see just how much I did change and I really don't like my tram self. She is gone! You will feeeeel soooooo much better after you get the toxic **** out of your system. You absolutely will not believe this is true but it is. I didn't think I could do it either, I knew I could quit taking them but I didn't think I could make it out of withdrawal alive. But I did! Anxiety was the worst symptom for me but I am pre-disposed to it. If I can do it, I believe anyone can, trust me. The worst will be over within a week of your last pill and then each day gets better. Turn your scaredness into ANGER and go to WAR with the DEVIL PILL!!!

And as Emily said, come here and post often, and read back through all of Emily's journals, there is a wealth of information. We can try to help you through this. You wouldn't believe how much posting actually helps. It is like therapy and you know that you are not alone. We have all been there or are still there.

I usually can't get on the computer on weekends but I will try to this weekend to see if you have ventured back, if I can't I am sure anyone of our other beautiful members will be able to help.

Good Luck! I know you can do it!

~Noodle



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by noodlegrl, Apr 17, 2009
OH! I meant to say that it is better to come up with a tapering schedule. You say, you were taking 8 a day, go to 7 a day for a week, then 6 a day for a week, so on. That is provided you have enough for that. Doing it that way will "minimize" symptoms although sometimes you may not realize that it is. Also, look up the Thomas Recipe and Amino Acid protocol. All the things on those really really help with minimizing symptoms. For instance, I took a multivitamin, B-12, L-theanine (for my anxiety), magnesium, green tea extract, fish oil, niacin, and drank water and tried to eat more healthy.

If you don't have enough to taper as above, just do the best you can do with it. I was so messed up I couldn't even tell you what my taper exactly was without looking back through the journals (personal journal would have come in handy after all Fred *smacks self in head* DOH!)

I hope this helps Sandie!

~Noodle

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by bjb97, Apr 17, 2009
Sandie -- I'm glad you found our site.  This has literally saved many, many lives just by being a safe place to get questions answered and to vent, scream, yell, cry, laugh, or whatever you feel at the time.

If you can use the taper schedule that Noodle mentioned above, I think your withdrawal symptoms will be less severe and going cold turkey, however, if you are like me  -- an "all or nothing girl" and don't have a history with tapering off things, i.e. cigarettes, alcohol, or whatever (that was me) then I say you need to bite the bullet, flush those pills and brace yourself for a very stormy 5-7 days.

good luck and post often.  there are lots of good listeners here.

Becky

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by FinallyFred, Apr 18, 2009
Sandie,  A belated welcome to you.  You asked, "stay on and be happy -or- come off and be sad.?"

If it were simply a matter of being happy or sad, I think we would all choose "happy".  Unfortunately, there is a great deal more to consider besides just being "happy" or "sad".  Here are my thoughts...

Let's start with the premise that I believe that GOOD  people can have BAD, LOUSY problems.  Physical dependance on tramadol is one of those bad, lousy problems.

You were on 8 pills/day for 2 years.  Have you experienced the "fog" and frequent rage that so many of us talk about here while on the tram?  Those times when we were in the tram-a-zone and oblivious to even loved ones around us?

And I will bet that you have also experienced the "tolerance" I experienced as I took this drug over time too Sandi.  Such that the same amount of the drug did less and less for me.  Or to put it another way, I found that I required more amd more of the drug just to feel LESS UNWELL.  And for those who DO increase their dose to compensate for the tolerance we naturally build up over time, there is an increased risk for siezure.  More than one mom has shared here about having a seizure while driving with their childen in the car.  What about that risk?  I can imagine that those mom's weren't feeling too "happy"?

If you were to stay on this drug, you would find that you would either need to keep increasing your dose to feel UNWELL, or you would experience withdrawal symptoms if you keep the dose the same.  I was experiencing withdrawal WHILE taking this drug.   And I was never "happy" while taking tramadol and at the same time experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

And then the is the issue of running out of pills before the next RX can be filled.  I simply got tired of going through withdrawal symptoms on a regular basis.  And counting pills, and constant trips to the doctor to explain how badly I needed this tramadol.  These were not the happiest of times for me.

For most all of us, the decision to stop the trams was filled with ths sort of angst that you described above  I honstly doubted that it would be possible for me to beat this drug when I first arrived here.  But my decision to stop the madness was bolstered by the HOPE, that if it was POSSIBLE for others here to have done it, I might be able to do it as well.  Acute withdrawal won't last weeks and weeks Sandi.  If/when you decide to do this, you will be through the worst of it in 4-5 days.  I do think you can do this Sandi.  In ANY event, I hope you come back and post again.  

The GOODNESS, VALUE, AND WORTH of someone addicted to tramadol is not made more GRAND by stopping this pill.  But what we find is that the QUALITY of life IMPROVES for those good, valuable and worthwhile people who find a way to beat the hold this lousy drug has on us.  

I "get" that this is a big decision.  All I can tell you is that in the 4 1/2 months since I stopped taking this pill, there has NEVER been a single day that I regretted taking that first tiny step.  Not even in the worst of my acute withdrawal pain did I regret the decision to stop taking this rat poison.  Because I knew that with each passing moment, I was beginning to put time between myself and the CONTROL that this little white pill had OVER me for six long painful years.  

Finally, what most of us discovered after stopping this drug, is that the pain that we were experiencing while on the drug, was greatly reduced.  TRAMADOL causes pain.

If you don't mind my asking, I am curious what State you live in?  Because if tramadol just became a controlled substance in another state, that would bring the list of States to SIX,  in which tramadol is now listed as a controlled substance. I am aware of Arkansas, Kentucky, North Dakota, Ohio, and Wyoming.   Is there another to add to this list?

Courage and Strength to you Sandi.  

Fred



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by 2Sue, Apr 18, 2009
Hi

Bode ive tried PROZAC for depression and went loopy,,was on it less than two weeks,  not interested  in kids,couldnt work, i was crazy, staring, just sat around.my mam took one look at me and rang doctor.This was my first recognition of my sensitivity to medication, and quite a few differnt things, antibiotics, painkillers, any thing really i have to be careful with.
so would be scared to try another anti depressant,,,i usually control my moods with food, i think ive mentioned a book my mam got me before. POTATOES NOT PROZAC...its was for alcoholics (im not), but suggests a sugar sensitivity for addictive personalities. I tell everyone now and on my med records i hav this. a lot of medication has sugars.
It is based on a healthy diet and uses diet to increase serotonin, balance blood sugars etc...vitamins it recomends are B complex, zinc and vit c....I have gone back on these.and as my diet has been awful, loads of choc, cakes etc,SUGAR stuff, im going back to the healthy sugar free stuff.
I think thats why my depression has arised.so hopefully.,ill feel better soon.food is very powerful. its worth a read for any of you.
emily,you mite not be feeling strong, but look what youve achieved.  

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by bjb97, Apr 18, 2009
Sandie -- please carefully and thoughtfully read Fred's recent post.  Everything is says  is to true.  Even in the worst of my withdrawals (and I went cold turkey), they only made me angry and willing to fight harder to get this horrible, awful, rat poison out of my system.

As Fred also said, I have never regretted for a day my decision to stop taking Tramadol for good.  Also, I want those acute withdrawal symptoms to remain fresh in my brain for a very long time.  I WANT to remember who I am and where I've been so I will never go back.

Good luck to you. You can do this.

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by EmilyPost, Apr 18, 2009
Good Morning Lovelies!

Ok so the half life of Klonopin is on the long side 50 hours aka 2 days. I'm much better than I was at two days off. I think it's been four days now. I should start my MedHelp tracker deal-io again. I'm really just (of course) hoping that ONE freakin YEAR into all of this I'll be good. Are you listening Higher Power Lady!?

I have symptoms, but not disabling. Just shouldn't be near humans. I also forget that I am NOT saying everything I am thinking. Which is probably the only thing that has saved the relationships I have left.

On Thursday evening I had a very triggering experience. I have a Friend named Sara, who has been really wonderful until um she recently vanished on me. She disappeared about two months ago. And I am wondering if the Zoloft she is on is now in charge.  She has clinical depression and issues with alcoholism. Including being arrested and charged for drunk driving. Thank goodness she never hurt anyone. I have been there for Sara. In spades. Many many times. Anyhow about two months ago she became unreachable. Now, I am NOT going to say with 100% certainty that she disappeared. But she hasn't emailed me or been in communcation with me for two months.

And so I get an email that's ... um ... weird. It's very ... off putting actually. Like a stranger writing to me. Now I know I am not 100% lucid, so I explain what happened to my husband and i read him the email and ... he's so mellow and calm and he reacts the same way I did. With horror. It's like Sara has been possessed by the overly happy fake weird Real Estate Agent personality and the person I was friends with is GONE. Her email glazes over the fact that she hasn't been supportive for months and that she hasn't been in contact.

Now, I understand having to bail on people. But the fact is, the timing on this is not looking good. It looks very much like she BAILED ON me when I needed her. And of course, cause I'm an addict, it hurts. So Thursday Night I am laying there feeling horrid and I am thinking about a Broken Heart. And how she's hurt my heart because she's ... Gone. It may be drug induced (It may be the Zoloft talking) but it still hurts me. It also primarily makes me angry,

So I was driving home on Thursday evening and I remembered ... yes, I need to SCREAM cause I am so angry. So I do. On the Freeway. A couple of times. I highly recommend this. For angry and rage, primal screaming in your car on a freeway is wonderful. There's a book that I love that is unique to books on Anger. Facing the Fire, by John Lee.  It's really an unpleasant subject and the book is very intense, but it enabled me to see anger as a very unique emotion. For me, anger often covers up deeper issues. Deeper emotions. It wasn't until I screamed and physically released the anger that I began to feel the hurt. The pain. The sadness.

So for me it's very much like Kev's explanation of disassembling a cake ...

Kev wrote, " "I don't think that depression is a feeling in itself,more a feeling or set of feelings we are 'depressed by'. When I am depressed I am depressed by feelings of failure,worthlessness,abandonment and despair. So I would validate these separately. Zen Cake Making- unmake the cake lol.....

I think if we treat depression as 'one thing' we will meet a wall so to speak, so I look at the bricks. Maybe that's why depression is hard to confront...it always has its buddies with it."    

Exactly. So for me, the layer of icing in the cake would be rage, anger. And i have to physically express it. Without other people present cause it scares them and can harm the relationship I have with them.  SO I scream, or beat up a bed with a pillow while I am alone in the house. Only cats witness this and they all run away. I'm careful to lock them outta the room first.

So then the issue of Sara vanishing for whatever reason reveals that my heart hurts. I mean Klonopin will give you chest pain anyhow. BUT the emotional impact of having a "friend" bail on you in the middle of the hardest part of withdrawal will bring up all manners of grief. It touches on every single loss I have ever suffered if I have no properly grieved.

Which brings me to the Brilliant Book "The Grief Recovery Handbook" which absolutely helped me understand WHY I was feeling the way I was. This book is so simple. But it had a profound effect on me. It simply has you list every single time you have felt grief and loss thru your life. Which is profound and will in my opinion help you VALIDATE and connect to Essential Self.

It allows you to see what needed Validation that didn't get it. It taught me to self validate. It also taught me the appropriate way to act towards people in grief, loss and despair. Which has helped me :D

So in a way Sara has given me a great reminder.  It was and is sad that she chose to vanish when she did. I'm not in a place at the moment where I feel Magnanimous. I feel hurt, sad, betrayed and I am not afraid of those feelings. If I go straight into anger about it, I am only hiding layer of other more"meaty" emotions from myself.

The meaty parts of the emotions like Being Abandoned by a friend when you clearly ASK for help. Being SAD and lonely and feeling like you don't matter. It's all under the anger. Feeling like your friend DIED is also t here. Straight us Grief. Loss.

Understand?

So withdrawal and drugs all teach us in their way.

Smoochies Chica Booms!
Emily

PS. LOVED the story Hillbillie! Made me LAUGH!



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by 2Sue, Apr 18, 2009
Hi
Sandie, i was unable to jump off tram til i got down to 12.5mgs three times per day.., then missed evening dose for couple of days. then stopped.my symptoms started bad when i got to taking 50mgs four hourly.but couldnt stop altogether. i had to taper down slowly, took me two months..and planned it around work etc.when to lower dose, cause even a lower dose had an effct on me.
my pain escalated first three days off completely ended in casualty  demanding pain killers.they must have thought i was deranged .i probably was looking back..like you i cant smile when i dont feel it and everybody knows about it.i can laugh now which is an achievement off tram.
my pain settled. taking cocodamol only now which is taken edge off pain.
it is scary but It does get easier and cant believe how clearer my mind was within a week off tram.I have three young boys and actually wanted for long time to take them to beach, out on bikes,play in garden..I hadnt realised while on tram what a killjoy on tram id been.i hadnt realised just how bad its effect on me had been.
good luck, we r right beside you.

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by sandie1977, Apr 18, 2009
hello all,

So sorry its taken me so long to write back. Its usually very hard for me to get on the internet, but I definetly want to tell everyone thank you for the advice, and the information.

noodlegrl - thank you for your very informative response about vit b-12, I will definetly try it tommorrow.

EmilyPost - Just reading your post cheered me up!

bjb97 - Thank you for your support, Im sure that this site will help me and not judge me

FinallyFred - I very much agree with you that my pain is subsided quite a bit and I'm managing it quite well with advil, but unlike you I never experienced the "fog" and frequent rage that you stated you did.  Quite the opposite in fact. I felt good, sometimes almost euphoric, on top of the world, able to do a million things and people liked me. Here recently since coming down off this medication I have been to put quite bluntly  a "raging biotch, with no care in the world about anything, or anyone except my children. I find that I am extremely irritable, shaky and VERY SHORT FUSE.  I cant remember what it was I was going to ask you now. It will come to me.  I live in Kentucky actually. And like I stated in my first post I freaked out over having to sign my name and show my license because it changed to "narcotic".

2Sue - How did you get 12.5 mg of tramadol? Did you cut your pills in half? Did you get a script? Honestly, I didnt know Tramadol came in that low of a dose. My doctor prescribed me 2 pills every 6 hours prn not to exceed 8 a day right away. There was no "building me up to a certain level." My pills are not scored so I don't think I would be doing myself a favor when I get down to one a day and have to go immediately to every other day.

To anyone I may have missed, not intentional.

I have quickly and painfully (mentally so) got down to 2 in a 24 hour period. Think I will do this for 3 days straight, and then work to 1 a day.  I have 4 days off starting Thursday and that is when the **** will start really hitting the fan.  

I am very glad and excited to see that I am not alone in this journey. Usually, when I decide to do something I do it and dont talk about it to anyone at all. I have changed with this medication because I need all sorts of help.  I have spoken with the ex -husband (who has since returned back into our lives 2 years ago) and he said he will keep kids more often while I am struggling with this. My mother is happy for me and said she will do whatever it takes to help me.  I feel sorry for my boyfriend, he's listening to me on a daily basis (damn near hourly) about what I feel like, (irritability), and he jokes with me at night and says he's got bruises on his legs from where I kick in sleep.  He's a good guy, most would have sent me packing by now.

I will try to post often and keep you updated.  

Down to two a day....

Sandie










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by bigman777, Apr 19, 2009
Went off tramadol 7 days ago and it has been total hell!cold sweats,tremors,crying jags,depression, mental blankness,complete apathy for the first 4 days.I was taking as much 1000mgs a day .I got to the stage where I was taking a months worth of medication in a weeks time.When I ran out I just decided to kick completely.I have kicked on opiates inthe past and I fully expected to have an unpleasant 2 to 3 days.I did not realize at that time how much worse the cold turkey was going to be on Tramadol. It was easily 6 or 7 times worse than anything I have ever experienced and is still not over.Not sure I would have made it to this point if I had not had full bottle ofAmbien. This has allowed me to get at 5 to six hours sleep nightly.I have Diebeties,morbid obesity,sleep apnea,Atrial Fib,arthritus,and prostate pain.Not sure what I am going to do about operation I may have to have on my throat in a few weeks time.If I have to get pain meds it won't be tramadol and I will get a very limited amount(3to 4 dayswortrh).Thank God I found this site and thanks Emily, you are truly wonderful.

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by FinallyFred, Apr 19, 2009
Sandie,  You are doing great. You said, "I have spoken with the ex -husband (who has since returned back into our lives 2 years ago) and he said he will keep kids more often while I am struggling with this. My mother is happy for me and said she will do whatever it takes to help me.  I feel sorry for my boyfriend, he's listening to me on a daily basis (damn near hourly) about what I feel like, (irritability), and he jokes with me at night and says he's got bruises on his legs from where I kick in sleep.  He's a good guy, most would have sent me packing by now."   Good good.  I think that you will find it a godsend to have people around you to help with your children and for general support.  

Thanks for letting me know that you are in Kentucky.  I believe Kentucy was the the most recent State to enact legislation "scheduling" this drug.  December 2008, as I recall.  If anyone out there has tried to find which States do and do not schedule tramadol as a controlled substance - it's a jungle.  And the only way I was able to determine which states schedule this terrible drug...was to find that INFO on a site that sells TRAMS online as a vetinary medication.  They will not ship trams for dogs, rats and cats to Arkansas, Kentucky, North Dakota, Ohio, and Wyoming.  

Some day the other states will get their acts together... but not today I suppose.  

**********

I was fooling around last night on the web, trying to find out reilable information about tramadol.  There's um...not much of it around.  My dream is to one day spend the energy that I currently invest in practicing law 60 + hours a week into blowing the lid off this understated problem with trams.  But I am afraid that with my work schedule and a desire to have some sort of a life, that dream my will need to wait until I  retire or quit my day job.  (which some days, sounds like a pretty damn good idea, I have to say.)  And maybe by that time, someone else will blow the lid off this terrible problem - pull the curtain off the LIES and misrepresentation the drug manufurers and their PRETTY drug representatives commit...who walz into my doctor's office with trays of ham sandwiches, cookies, tickets to the local baseball game...and free "samples" of this rat poison...while I sit and wait my turn in the waiting room.  :(

And friends, they are still PUSHING.  It's big business.  New markets identified for this drug include: (1) pain control for our pets, (2) topical ointment with tram marketed to treat hemmorhoids, and (3) treatment for pre-mature ejaculation in men.  It's not like we NEED any more reason to hate tramadol, but really?#@!

I have to admit, I have a cat "who" may be made more comfortable with tramadol.  But the thought of seeing her develop tolerance, and then experiencing the same constant withdrawal that most of us experienced seems plain wrong and uncaring.  Do I want to put my cat into a trama-a-fog?  Hardly.  So I'll let her live life on life's terms, like me.  And I'll give her extra pickups and cuddles, and slow strokes under her chin and around her ears the way she tells me she likes it.  And maybe I'll give her an extra "feline greenie guy" treat.  No trams, even for rats -  in this household. So sorry Kiggy.

Thee last two subjects get a little "personal".  A little um...graphic. But I'll be damned if I am gonna rub tramadol cream on my ask for any reason.

And as treatment for premature ejaculation in men?  Let's see how I can do with this one...I am afraid that if this drug were marketed widely in this fashion, we would see a generation of "premature"  cases flipping into the category of NEVER.  Nuf said about that.  This drug kills everything it touches.  Nada never in this household.

I guess my point is that I don't believe we have seen the end of tramadol, far from it.  And it truly bugs me to read about the new plans tram pushers are  marketing this drug on unsuspecting people, rats and cats.

Emily, what an awful way for a "friend" to behave.  Vanishing like that.  There's no accounting for some people, huh?  Just know that we love you and care about you...and...welll, there's just no accounting for people sometimes.

***

A Rambling about work:

I am not sure what comes cross on these interwebs, but Fred is a very sensative guy.  It's probably my accilles heel actually.

I felt unreasonably "snubbed' this week by my boss.  My boss is an idiot.  Iv'e practice law almost as long as he has been alive.  But he went in for the pom poms and I gladly relinquished all rights to supervise others long ago, thank God.

While I work independantly, I sent my boss a legal brief that I had worked on for about 1/2 day this week...something I had researched at the request of another, less experienced  attorney.  I didn't really need or want his feedback on my "work product"...I simply wanted him to know what I had been working on and I thought he might use it as a reference brief himself.  My bosses response?  "you are off base"?  REALLY boss man?  "Off base", that's the best you can say?  I really may have appreciated a more thoughtful analysis, supported by case law, but simply, "off base"?  Come on!   Yup, I am fairly sensative I suppose.  

***
Bigman,  I'm glad you found us too.  That was a hard thing you have done.  C/T from 20 pills/day to nada.  Not pleasant, but I'd be willing to bet that in just a couple more days, you will be so glad you no longer will need to deal with counting pills, running out, withdrawal symptoms, all the by-product of the trama-a-life.  Don't let the things you cannot do interfere with the things you can do (John Wooden).  I hope you stick around and keep posting.  Good fortune on your upcoming surgery.  I think you have a good plan going on for your post surgical pain meds.  Definately no evil tram.   As you said, this stuff is more nasty to get free from that the REAL narcotics.

I for one rationalized that the "synthetic" narcotic was somehow better than a real narcotic.  (clears throat)  I found for myself that the synthetic nature of this NARCOTIC  did me worse than a real, good, old fashioned opiate.  Twisted my brain receptors around it's little finger. So, yeah, forgive me if I get more than a little pisked at what is being hoisted on the public in the name of medicine.

Fred



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by FinallyFred, Apr 19, 2009
Fred is apparently CRANKY tonight!  

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by Shadetree, Apr 19, 2009
Hello Everyone,

Sandie, it sounds like you and I will be going through w/d's at the same time. I will be taking the last of mine on wed am...so I expect w/d's to kick in Thursday sometime. I plan on being "sick" at work and leaving then callin in on friday. That gives me 4 - 5 days to get through the worst.

I am looking forward to it. Sounds odd I know but I cant wait!

I have found some detailed info about RLS if anyone is interested. I will share tomorrow I have to go right now, talk to everyone soon...

~Shade

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by 2Sue, Apr 19, 2009
Hi sandie and shade.my thoughts (and memories) are with you both this week when you stop altogether..glad you have organised your time, i still had three boys to look after, went to work third day and came home but it got easier after that.....
take it one day at a time, it doesnt last.try to eat well.itll help, protein and vitamins.
sandie my trams were soluble, and scored so i could taper further, im sure i even had a sip as a finale.lol.
like you i dont know haw my partner has stuck it, he is so placid while ive been a loony..four weeks now and i think im more like my old self..with the odd outburst.he doesnt talk about it (wish he would) but hes still here.

glad to see americas taken a stand against this damn drug.brits mite catch up in ten years, they love tram here.but world health organisation is on its case so hopefully sooner than that.(did i really say well catch up.lol.)
  

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by KodeMaster, Apr 19, 2009
I took one dose of this medicine and I had the worst nightmares I ever had...I dreamt that I was possessed! It seemed so real!

Never again. :(

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by BVD660, Apr 19, 2009
Hello all,

I just wanted to say that I'm glad I'm not alone in hell.  I'm now 6 days tram-free and taking it one day at a time.  I took 300 to 400 mg per day for about 8 yrs and have slowly tapered over the last several months.  This has lessened the w/d but am still dealing with extreme anxiety at times and the cold sweats and chills.  I just put 200 ultram down the disposal just in case any temptation were to creep up on me although I haven't been tempted so far.  I'm a little worried about having to go to work tomorrow because I know I'll be soaked with sweat and freezing the whole day.  

I'm so glad I found this forum and thanks for all the great advice and info.

BVD

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by sandie1977, Apr 19, 2009
Oh yes the cold sweats, and the freezing!!!  My boyfriend cracks on me alot because I am wearing his sweatshirts and the temp outside here is usually 65-80 degrees.  I am now starting to exp diarrhea. Like every day I have a new symptom.  Seems as though its psychological.

I have to admit that I took one last night at 2am, and no more yet. And good news... I am wearing only a t-shirt right now and sweat pants.  I couldnt have done this 2 days ago.  I have not had the dizzy spells yet, or cold sweats. And yesterday all I could think about was the 12 hour mark so I could take another one. Well, I am going to push it further today. Try to go for 6pm before taking my 2nd pill for the day. that will put me 16 hours between doses.  

Doesnt it sound maddening that this one little pill has me counting HOURS now????? Sheeesh.

I'm new here, but I would like to welcome BVD660.

Shade tree, I am a nurse and therefore my schedule is not set. I have a great friend at work who I told of the medication issue. She immediately grabbed the schedule and without our bosses "ok" revamped the schedule so I could get 4 straight days off in a row instead of my usual one. I told her our boss will be upset. my friend calls our boss up and tells her this wicked story of howher kids are going through a rough time at home and she is needed at home more often. Our boss said as long as I have one or the other of you there it doesnt matter.  

So I work m 8-4, t 8-4, w 8am-11pm, and then I really come off. Then next two weeks of work is strictly training (basically a lot of sitting around)

We'll see.  I really thought my friend would ave judged me but nope.

sandie


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by bigman777, Apr 19, 2009
Fred, thanks for the positive feedback and I will probably become a regualr poster on this site.It really helps me to know that there are people out there that are going thru the same experience that I am.Having a lot of uro-genitial pain todaydue to prostrate ..This is the one type of pain that I can not ignore.I upped water intake and tookapill which acts a local anestetic(no buzz)and it has helped.Have to see 3 different Dr.s this week for different problems and not planning on getting any pain meds from any of them.                          

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by KC67, Apr 19, 2009
Hello everyone.

It’s been a rough week for me.  I have successfully kicked Tramadol (going on 60+ days now), but a few weeks ago, I decided to kick my benzo (Xanax) addiction as well.  

Like Emily, I have been slowly cutting my pills and am down from 3 (.5mg) per day to ¾ of ONE (.5mg) pill per day.  

This is a very different withdrawal experience than Tramadol.  I believe that Tramadol was more intense in the physical symptoms as well as the depression and anxiety.  Benzo’s are more subtle and sneaky.   For example, one day I will experience MASSIVE (folks, I’m talking heart palpitations, shortness of breath) anxiety.  Followed by a horrendous night of insomnia.  Then the next day I will have zero anxiety followed by a decent night’s sleep.  Very weird.

It messes with your mind though, because you start thinking, “Is this all in my mind or is this subtle, sneaky drug leaving my body?  Am I perhaps going crazy and need to be locked up or is this just the drug talking?”

Last week it got to the point where I actually listened to the drug voices and asked my doctor to prescribe me some Zoloft.  Big mistake.  I suffered even WORSE anxiety and feelings like I was about to jump out of my skin.  I lasted 6 days and then I stopped taking the Zoloft.  I couldn’t take the side effects anymore.

So now I am back to just suffering it out.  Thank goodness I did some research and know that benzo’s can take up to a year to completely get out of your system.  Time…that’s what it is going to take.  It’s just so freakin’ hard!

I used to love to clean and bake and cook – now I just find myself kinda like a vegetable.  I work part-time and find myself getting depressed the days before I have to work.  I have to plan a birthday party for my youngest son and every time I think about planning the details, I get overwhelmed and depressed.  

Emily, how are you dealing with the post-benzo anxiety?  Do you have any depression?  

I am going to do my very best to give it 6 months to a year to get this stuff out of my system, but if I still feel this badly after a year, I’m not sure what to do.  I have had only negative experiences with antidepressants – however, I have been told that you have to be on them for 3 months before they are effective.  But 3 months of anxiety, RLS, and craziness would be unbearable for me.

Okay.  So that’s my rant in a nutshell.  I am sorry to be so negative, but I am thankful that I have a place like this to come and be honest.

Welcome to all the newcomers!  It is so inspiring to read all of your posts and it continues to encourage me to stay OFF the Trams!  It is still very fresh in my mind all you Day 1-6’ers are experiencing.  

And I just want to reassure you that all of these symptoms are completely NORMAL and VERY common:  
insomnia (I promise, it gets better – hang in there), anxiety, heart palpitations, shortness of breath, intestinal difficulties, depression, apathy (it was severe for me), restlessness (including RLS), and irritability – to name a few – I’m sure there are 75 more that I have forgotten.  

The good news is that I PROMISE it all gets better with time.  I know there were times when I thought I was going to die – that I couldn’t take one more day of no sleep, RLS, and the anxiety – but it eventually subsided.  Sometimes with random flare-ups -  but the episodes got further and further apart.  

Keep going everyone!  We were not meant to live our lives in a Trama-fog with a stupid drug controlling our thoughts, emotions, and personalities.  We deserve better and ALL of us are fighting for this together!

Sincerely with hope and love,
kc


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by TramaBarf, Apr 19, 2009
Hi all!

My name is JC. (not my real name...just my initials, sorry)  I am on day 27 off of the TramaTRAMA.  And a trauma it is.  But it is getting better!

I want to thank all of you that have been here, for your words of wisdom, encourgement, truthfullness, etc. etc.  There is not enough words to describe what I deeply owe to you all for writing down all of your journeys.  I have learned alot from this journal. (thanks Emily for starting this!)

My story?  Hmmm.  Where to start?  I am a 39 year old.  Mother of three boys.  Going through a nasty divorce.  Nasty isn't even the words to describe it.  Disgusting is more like it. I became a single Mother over NIGHT, days before Christmas, where DADDY left us for another woman, and never showed up to Christmas, or called, or anything.

I have major back pain, buldging disk, back injury, major scoilosis (spell check anyone?), nerve damage, etc, etc.  I was never "addicted," to anything, but became completely DEPENDENT on yucko Tramadol three years ago? (actually do not remember...due to major fog?)  Also excuse me if dependent and addicted mean the same thing.  I guess I am addicted, due to the fact of my actions....O.k. I am addicted.

I started from the idiot Dr. that told me they had this wonderful pill to help me with my back pain!  Yey!!  Non addictive, (ummmm ya right?) NON narcotic, etc. etc.  I was all...."Hook me up!!"

At FIRST It was a MIRACLE!  I felt energetic, happy, minimal pain!!  Whoo hoo!!  "This stuff is LEGAL, non addicting stuff!!"  After stupid muscle relaxer after muscle relaxor (which I still have bottles of) This was my SAVIOUR!!  My friend!!  My ANSWER!! I never even had a DRINK with this stuff, for this was the STUFF.  This "stuff," was the answer to everything! (wrong)

Fast forward.....like everyone...or almost everyone after time, it took more and more.  My peak was about 3 50mg pills 4 times a day.  Sometimes more.  Never less.  Then the back pain came back worse......  It was waking up to take it immediately.  Before I went to the bathroom. (sorry tmi) before, waking the kids up for school, before anything.  The first thing on my mind.

I realized I had a problem when I was ordering off of the internet....due to the fact that I relocated to another state, had private insurance in another state, which did not transfer to my current state.  It became an expensive habit.  It became the devil.  It took over my life.  It took alot of people with it. Sadly.

I ran out like many have before I could order more.  One time.  And at that time I said, "NO MORE FOR ME."  That put me in the hospital where they could not TREAT me for they said, "THERE IS NO WITHDRAWL SYMPTOMS FROM TRAMADOL!"  I argued with them as I was pulling my hair out, telling them I was going to DIE.  They perscribed me more, telling me to taper.  Ya right.  Did not work.  Tapering being a stay at home Mommy of THREE boys?  I was irritable, sweaty, shakey, you know the deal...everything that everyone has experienced.  So I started back up.

I realized I HAVE to stop this poop.  Now.  So after TRYING to do some reasearch, not googling, just aol searching, I realized that Subboxone might work!!  So, I went to a Dr. that perscribed Subboxone.  Did THAT for five months, weaned MYSELF off of it, and then when my X left in December I said I had to stop Subboxone for I would lose my boys.

Major withdrawls from Subboxone. Same as tramahell. SAME thing.  So a little over two months ago I started again.

Fast forward to finding this site.  I found that I COULD get through the withdrawls. (due to you all....and your stories) So I did it!!  I am a little under a month, but am So proud of my accomplishments.  YEY!!

Symptoms?  Same as ya'al.  Randomness.  I wake up every morning at 5 am.  Have restless nights, night sweats, no night sweats, anxiousness, no anxiousness, never know what is gona happen, but just waiting for the day it does NOT happen.  That day will come.  Soon.  Hopefully.  No, it will, just anxiously awaiting it like you all.

But, I am HAPPY now.  I have conquered MOST of the storm.  Are the clouds still overhead?  Yup.  But I put up my umbrella!  (sometimes its hard to even get it out....but I manage.)

I do feel guilty withdrawling with my sons.  They have NO idea, BUT, I look at it this way....Mom not 100 percent for the first couple weeks as opposed to possibly DYING???  Ill take the withdrawls.  I am getting better every day.  Somedays I take a few steps back and some days I have 15 steps forward.  Randomness as many state. *****, but I FEEL now.  I SEE now.  I laughed my butt off yesterday at Saturday night live!!  Laughed at not so funny stuff, but I laughed so fricken hard!!

I gota end this now.  Possibly ill post later, maybe not.  But know that I am reading, taking it all in, and bow down to you all who have showed me there IS light at the other side to the TRAMATUNNEL!!

Hugs and love to you ALL.  I am a Mommy.  I am doing this.  I am a fighter, and I have my pink boxing gloves on every day beating the **** out of any thoughts that come my way.  There is no turning back.  EVER.  

I read about that pink cloud, and I experienced that.  That is why I went back to it.  It took me being a single parent over night to realize that my life it too important to mess it up.  I am what my children adore.  To take that away from them is a injustice, and every day they are seeing me for who I was, and who I AM, and that is a special person, a MOTHER first and foremost, a SOUL, and TRAMAHELL just took that away for a little while.  (A little while as opposed to a lifetime)

Please pray for my healing as I pray for you all.  Everyone who has GOTTON TO THE OTHER SIDE....HUGS and LOVE to you!!  Anyone that is GOING to the other side....IT CAN be done.  We are all worth it.  This drug IS the devil, and it should be defeated under any and all circumstances.

Love, light, and healing to you all. You are an inspiration to me as well as others who do not post.

Thanks again Emily,
JC




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by bigman777, Apr 19, 2009
J.C.-my idiot doctor said the exact same thing to me when I went on Tramadol 3 years ago.I asked my pharmacist (a good guy) why M.D.s love to write this ****.He told me due to some sort of wierd exemption Tramadol was not on the same schedule as all the other opiates.Therefore they write a script without getting a hassle from the regulating authorities. I am going to see said idiot this week andI am going to ttell him the news!In Spades! Keep up the good work and hang in there!

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by kevzx81, Apr 19, 2009
Hi Everyone......

2SUE
ShadeTree
BVD660
Sandie1977
Bigman777...special hellos, hang tough and your courage and determination WILL be rewarded. Im 80ish days free now and it was SO worth the effort. I have less pain now than when on Tram and my thoughts and feelings are my own again. One thing I DONT miss is having to stop and question every thought and feeling before speaking them out loud in case it was the meds talking.....so paranoid living like that.
Tram is not an EASY drug to quit but it comes with so many built in REASONS to quit!  Add that to the support here on this site and what you get is a growing number of EX Tram users. Thats what got me through w/d. I was able to talk out my thoughts and feelings,no matter how dark or unpleasant, with others who UNDERSTOOD. We cant always expect that from our nearest and dearest. Positive energy to you for the battle ahead.

KC-No wonder you are so overwhelmed, anxiety subsides straight into need for rest,it forces our senses wide open and exhaust us. And still so much to do...!  Big hugs(((KC))) hope this week gets better for you.

Emily-Thanks for the 'suggested reading material'. Sorry to hear about 'Sara'. 3 years ago when it became apparent I was having mobility problems and earning less, my 'partner' began a none too subtle process of 'dumping' me. Massive empathy Emily. That anger was SO difficult to process. It sounds like your friend has abandoned herself as well. No surprise you are not feeling magnanimous, nor did I. Looking back I worry more for her than for myself, this is no world to go sleepwalking in. But even now, it still hurts. Regarding 'Sara' ; Those of us with knowledge of healing can seem a threat to others not yet ready to heal. Perhaps it is herself she is really avoiding. Either way its a terrible let down at such a critical time...and thats what stays in my memory and hurts so much.So sorry Emily.

Fred- On a lighter note here is an anecdote about bosses which I hope will give you a chuckle.

The parts of the body were arguing over who should be boss.
First the legs applied,as surely without moving the man was useless.
Next the brain applied for the job,quickly followed by the eyes and arms who all had excellent credentials.
Finally the a*se hole applied for the job. All the other body parts laughed so hard that the a*se hole got offended and closed up. over the following days the man turned from pallid to green to purple and fell over writhing in pain. Finally all the other body parts were forced to concede.which proves that you dont have to be the brains to be in charge....just an a*se hole!!!

Dont let the ba*tards grind you down :)



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by kevzx81, Apr 19, 2009
JC-our posts overlapped-Hi. So many tales of abandonment.I salute your fighting spirit and suspect you of having a brick in your pink boxing gloves!!

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by TramaBarf, Apr 19, 2009
Thanks for the response Kevz and Bigman.  And Kevz, I DO have a brick in those gloves of mine!!  (For the TRAMAHELL AND THE X!  Hehehe)

Yes, many tales of abandonment.  Its S U C K Y.  Gosh, they *** every word on here!!  Even C R A P!  Lol.

I wanted to add for myself how I have been doing it, because for everyone everything does not work.

I tried the Thomas Recipie, and I don't know if I was too early in my withdrawls, or what, but I found the vitimans to make me jittery, and like a fake sence of energy.  Like my body was TRYING to say GO GO GO!!!  But, my mind was like, STAY STAY STAY.  Wierd feeling.  Kinda like a faux opiate?  Feels like its working, but in actually it wasn't.

Why do I think this did not work for me?  I got REALLY skinny from the TramaYUCK.  (BTW, my name TRAMABARF???  What was I thinking???)  I did not eat.  Barely ever.  So, from YEARS of practically not eating, I depleated my body, mind and SOUL of all the needed vitimans.  Therefore, when I put them in me ,my body and mind was like HU?????  Instead, I have been eating HEALTHY with some of the foods I found on a list here...I believe from emily.  Watermellon...yummmmm.

B12?  Doesn't seem to work for me.
5HTP  Seems to work!
Vitimans?  OUCH MY TUMMY!
FLINSTONE vitimans?  YUM!!
Vitiman Water- Helps
Excedrin PM- A MUST
Advil gell caps for my headaches, backaches, ache aches. (doesn't always work, but I try)
GATORADE...there is just SOMETHING in this drink that helps ALOT.  If I run out, I start feeling yucky again. (NOT Powerade, ONLY Gatorade)
Imodium?  Helps at first,alot, then last night of all nights I woke up with KILLER constipation.  Pain like I never felt. OUCH!
L-something or other.... Made me REALLY jittery.  But I took those with a mega vitiman, and could not tell which one was making me so jittery.
Coffee to begin with just one cup a day, as opposed to a POT a day. (just so I would not withdrawl from THAT too)
Coffee now is a must.  Not a pot though, or I will get all anxietyish and jittery.
Hmmm what else.....

Oh I have high bp anyways, so they changed mine from SOMETHING (brain fog, sorry) to Clonidine.  It seems to help with withdrawls.  

And Klonipin, one quarter of a pill ,25 about every other day. (he perscribed me 2 2mg a day...never took that much)  Ive been almost out for two weeks so I try to go every three days, and every day when its really bad, but only need one .25 a day.  Anyone know if I will withdrawl from a .25?  

I go to my drug pusher Dr. on Wednesday, haven't been there in two months, I am going because ever since they gave me a depo shot in OCTOBER and then one after that, I have continued to bleed EVERY SINGLE DAY. Not a day goes by that I do not.  (sorry, tmi) But I believe from the bleeding, withdrawls, and non healthy vitiman wise body, I am now anemic, so I do take iron.

This was my Suboxone Dr. that I am going to.  He practically YELLED at me when I told him NO MORE SUBOXONE, I will lose my kids.  He told me under NO circumstances would ANYTHING be obtained by the courts, under HIS DEAD BODY.  

Well...sure enough a suponea went through.....they called me stating, its the WHOLE records or no records.  I was SOOOO mad.  BUT, good thing is he DID write like a three page letter about Tramadol, the affects, the fact that of his thousands of patients, I am the one who got off of Suboxone the quickest.  (When I went to see him he stated if I do WELL, it will only be a year)  A YEAR??  This stuff was costing me 300 bucks a month WITH insurance.  He perscribed me three pills a day to begin with.  I pueked all night.  I took TWO the next day, and thought I was gona die.  Then the third day I took one, and one I stayed.  I weaned myself off of one pill a day in less than five months....but after that...you know the story, blech.  So it was 300 bucks for ONE pill a DAY.  VERY expensive.  Made me feel better from the Tramadol, but the withdrawls were the SAME.  I was down to I believe a quarter of a .05 pill a day?  Might be wrong on that, but it was a quarter of the lowest dose possible.

I was also on Lexapro.  I got off of that three days after I got off of the TramaYuck.  Brain Zaps like you would never believe, but I knew I would die from the Tramadol before I would die from getting off of an antipressant.

But truely you all.  When I first read this and I was going through withdrawls, I was like WHAT??  I need this done NOW!!  Then I saw all the support, encouragement, and Emily and others FIGHTING this nasty drug, I said to myself, "I was in the military!"  "I know hand to hand combat!"  "Bring on the fight!"  I found it easier to get mad and fight then feel sorry for myself thinking I was gona DIE.  Thats how it felt at first, I was GOING TO DIE.  But see?  Im not even a month into it and after, two weeks maybe, I KNEW I was gona live.  I knew I wasn't 100 percent, but I WAS past the BAD part of the storm!

So keep this going to all of you!  You are all true warriors!!  Bring on the fight for those of you wanting to stop this stuff from robbing you blind of your wallet and life!  Wow, it feels great to finally write about this instead of reading!  

And sorry about my spelling.  I type like 65 wpm, but, I spell like C R A P.  Sorry.  Heheh.

You all have a great evening.  And thank you all for allowing me to state my story to you.  I feel better just writing it down.

Goodnight....gona go kiss my boys now!

JC


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by FinallyFred, Apr 19, 2009
Kev,  thanks for trhe story.  It made me laugh!  

JC, thanks for your story AND your encouragement to others here.  It takes a village, huh?  

BVD,  You are doing great.

I have a big day tomorrow, so headed off to beddy bye.  

Courage Strength and Love,

Fred

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by beeb16, Apr 20, 2009
Here's where i jump in.

i've been using tramadol since 99' and i've gone c/t at least 6 times.
The first two times i don't recall any w/d symptoms, but the last 4 each has been worse and worse..
currently i'm on day 5 going into day six,sleep is escaping me , and i've got that "brain fog" that everyone gets.
physically, i don't feel too bad but it's the emotional part that's got me down. Feeling depressed,like i let people down etc...
Here's what i know for sure about my cold turkey w/d 's
the w/ds are worst on days 2-4,
you will cry and get emotional over every little thing,
Sleep will be your biggest wish
you may feel a sense of doom
i found it impossible to work for at least 2 weeks. I would say minimum  would  be 10 days.
TIME  was my best friend and worst enemy
and finally ...all these symptoms will pass!

ive been lurkin here for the past 5 days,reading every post going back to december. I can't tell you how i get choked up by the courage i see.here!
and honestly ..I DONT HAVE ONE MORE QUIT IN ME!!

Last time i was clean for over 2 months. from 9/08 to 11/08
i was feeling strong,my head was clear,then i woke up with a backache on election day, nov 4th to be exact.
i had a doc, appt that day,so in my mind i heard those devil voices "your clean" "you can take it for life if necassary"
"youve been through w/d before" "just think how great you'll feel"   "just think how much you'll get done"
well you folks know where that was heading.
so from nov 4th last year to april 14th this yr.  i was on a steady diet of 8 a day. Some days 10 some days 6.

anyway so here i am , the place i always come to when i go cold turkey
and the place i NEVER come to when that rat poison SOB tramadol's got it's talons in me!

many,many thanks to those here who  provide hope to others when they're in their "early" withdrawals!

emily ,kev,fred and the many others who's name escapes me right now.

thank you.

.




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by EmilyPost, Apr 20, 2009
(((((((((((beeb))))))))))))))

(((((((((JC)))))))))))))

(((((((((Bigman)))))))))))

You can do it!

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by beeb16, Apr 20, 2009
what is it about these w/d's that make me want to watch tearjerkers? lol

anyway you guys have given me strength these last 5 days, i've been down this road before.
so i feel like the worst is over. But that damm emotional aspect is making me feel like such a loser.
i know it'll pass.
i tell you honestly i don't have another quit in me.


beeb in chicago

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by jooler, Apr 20, 2009
im on day 4 . i just found this site today and im excited to be able to read others exper and learn from them. i just found out that depression comes with the wds. i found myself crying after reading a thrad earlier. huh. i havent cried since i was a kid. ive never felt this way b4. reality scares me. i cant remember a time when i was the real me just pill me. keep ur head up beeb it will get better.

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by beeb16, Apr 20, 2009
thanks jooler same to you.

I've been down this road before,and although i hate w/d's  i know that staying off is
my biggest problem. who doesn't want to feel great all the time?
but sadly,everytime i start developing a tolerance,these little sob's start having the opposite effect on me!
they increase my pain,and increase my anger. like i don't want anyone disturbing my "high"
I hear ya ''reality" scares the **** outta me too!
but what choice do we have? stay on em for life? no chance!
I feel like i gotta give emily and the rest of the "rocks" as i call em, much respect!
where else would we go to find others who would understand our predicament,
people who know what it's like to "kick" the covers,deal with dreadful "anxiety" and do it all while taking care of kids
or working. Some of the people here are a hell of alot stronger than me. I just do the best i can.
best wishes to all.


ps. i'm a 43 year old granpa (stepdaughter has kids 4 and 6) they can't understand why granpa doesn't want to play.
i say grandpa's got the flu. but in a couple of days maybe a week, i'll run with the best of em.

peace beeb

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by noodlegrl, Apr 20, 2009
Howdy all my Tram-Warrior Friends! Day 26 for ME!

As you see, I was not able to get on this weekend - can you say happiest and most active weekend in what seems like FOREVER! Had a really great time with Mr. Noodle, we reconnected on many levels. We desperately needed it. Thinking of it brings happy tears to my eyes.

I see we have some new peeps already well on the way to being FREE! So glad you could join us :) *waves and hugs*

Getting off tram put me on somewhat of a health kick. I was trying to cut out most sugars and sodas and things and well, that all went to Hades this weekend. I just couldn't say no to the sugary carbonated goodness of a coke, muffins, honey buns, etc... I wreaked havoc on the snacks! I feel ok, so hopefully I'm not going to go into sugar induced anxiety shock or something... It has just been SO long since I could enjoy food - bad for me or not. So, I let myself be a little bad :)

Seems like everyone has a very firm positive grip on this! Makes me proud.

Emily - sorry about your friend... I know that feeling well. And I am sure friends know it of me too :(

I don't have a lot of time this morning to put a lot of thought into my post as this is not a good week at work so I need to try to stay as focused as I can. Guess my quitting couldn't have come at a better time.

Love, hope, and light houses to ALL!

~Noodle

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by warrior3071, Apr 20, 2009
All,

Have been 'gone' for a while.  I was down to a very low taper, almost off altogether, when I basically gave up.  something in me wasnt/isn't ready yet.  I WAS down to 3/day, but then went back up to 30/day within just a few days of relapsing.  I took 5 this morning.  

It both helps and hurts to be back on this forum again.  Everyone seems to be succeeding in their effort to stay stopped.  Why can't I ?  I feel like a failure, and I KNOW you are all thinking "don't feel like that" - I know in my head that everyone on this post is 1 pill away from relapsing, but I am the one that DID.  I don't see anyone else struggling with stopping on here.  So i do feel kind of alone in that respect.

My contract job at Lockheed Martin ended and I thought I would use that week or so in between jobs to go off the pills, fast and final.  But then I was called for another job right away, so I am having to taper again.  I have to tell you, being able to stay home and go cold turkey actually sounds good to me.  It is SO darn hard to take "just a few" - some devil on my shoulder says, take 10 - take 15 .... you can always start tapering again TOMORROW.  Only, as you all know, tomorrow never comes when I do that.

I am praying to my higher power to help me this time.  Also, to help me eat healthy, because along with the depression comes eating for me (recently married, my husband buys things I never bought when I was single - cookies, nachos..)  As with tramadols, my willpower can be nonexistent when I am feeling that hopelessness.  I have to lose tramadol and 100 pounds....I am at the bottem of Mt. Everest.

thanks for 'listening.'  ~  (still trying to be a )  Warrior3071.

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by Shadetree, Apr 20, 2009
Hello everyone...

Warrior you are not the only one! Beleive me I have been struggling with trying to taper for about 2months or more now. I would always give in, and at one point I gave up and just kept on like I would usually. And yes it was the same for me, I did good today so I will take a few more and go to my 'scheduled taper" Tomorrow.

Well  I am absolutley furious that this has control over me, so I have already proved to myself that tapering is not going to work for me (its been 2 + months) to no avail. I should of been free along time ago but I just cant do it. I dont have the will power, I will always talk myself into taking more or going off course. But I am fine with that not happy I dont have that kind of willpower, but I have excepted it. So I couldnt solve the problem that way so it is time to try another way. So now I let myself run out of the poison. Tomorrow will be the last of it. I am going to battle and I will take a few days off if I have to, and Im sure I will. This is the only way for me.  For warned is for armed (thanks to this place), I have stocked up on supplies and Im ready. I cleaned my whole house yesterday, spent the whole day doing it in hopes I can hold off for a week or so while I am "ill". I have been posting that I am excited and I really am, I am also dreding it, I know what is to come. But  it is only temperary. It will be over soon enough. And I can get back to being me, the way God intened me to be. And like you I pray over and over for strength, he is the only one that can get me through this.

Anyway warrior you are definatley not alone, I have been struggling with this too. I even stopped posting because I was so ashmed that everyone has been successful and I couldnt. But if you take a look back those that have been the most successful have quit c/t 9 out of 10. I think alot of people here would have the same problem if trying to taper...

~Shade

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by 2Sue, Apr 20, 2009
Hi warrior
i think we hav all been at that mountain with you, its odd when people say new things and you think i was just feeling like that.
im climbing that mountain but feel its huge..you will catch me up that mountain soon.
its a minor setback to increase tram,, my worst symptoms were at the lower doses,  i did increase if i couldnt manage that day but not by much and reduced the next,took two months in all..do one thing at a time,cold turkey may work for you if you can set aside the time.i couldnt deal with w/d too quickly.
the weight will balance itself eventually, low mood and depression is part of it, its the tram talking.
dont feel alone...my pain is high this week and consultant who i saw today was not much help,,im soooo tempted to start t....again for pain relief, but know i cant.my mind is much clearer off it which i like,ive got me back, sort of.
you are not alone.  
think of positive things, your wedding, congratulations and your new hubby for some good vibes,,
go for a walk instead and get out of the house, if you can..take out with you only what you need for that day.
im sitting here supposed to be doing an assignment for my degree,which has to be in on friday,,i have 2500 words to write,i havnt started and cant focus.oops

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by warrior3071, Apr 20, 2009
Thank you Shadetree and 2Sue ~ I have also been so ashamed, I didn't even want to come to the forum to just read.  My husband, Ross, knows about all this but bless his naive heart, doesn't really GET it.  The closes he gets is noticing when I've picked up my prescription - because I am happier, more active, etc.. that day than the previous days when I was running out.  One day soon, I'm sure, he will finally ask "how much do these pills cost" (I get them online, expensive).  If i can just stop before it gets to that point .... I don't want him angry at me  - he is a sweet man - but he is human and even though I work and I am paying out of my money, it's that much less that I can contribute to "our" account for vacation, etc.  He is bound to be surprised and irritated.  I don't want to lie to him and say I'm off them.  So I have to REALLLY get off.  

Down to 10/day now ....  reducing as quickly as I can without it being obvious at work.  Too fast and the depression gets hold.  I wish I could just throw them out / run out.  But if I don't work, we can't stay afloat that month.  I'm lucky the contract work I have at Lockheed is paying so well ...and then i go and spend $130 on pills... the insanity of it all....

Sorry to be rambling on.  Bless you wonderful souls.


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by bigman777, Apr 20, 2009
Hi everybody.Bigman777 here .I am on disability and don"t work.Went off opiates in the past w/o any particular problem  when I was younger(56at present).Sure that I would not able to go cold turkey while working ! Not this F drug.Definite class of its own from every perspective. To the people who are doing that very thing (ct while working)I give great kuddos.Keep up the great work.As for as tapering goes I really hope it goes well for you people as well.With my compulsive personality(over eat,over medicate,over drink ,ete)I knew that for me ct was the way to go.Although as I stated before I did not see or realize that this tiime it was going to be much ,much different.Life changing! I will say one thing about the withdrawal experience,it has provided me with a moment of clarity! I will never drink or use any drugs recreationally again and I have never felt that way before.I am sure  there will come a time that I will need opiates in future(post operatrive)but it  sure  won't the F-ing Tramadol.Day 1 of the diet as well.Working  on all my compulsions at once as they all feed off each other so to speak.         Kevzx81- thanks for the positve feedback man I really appreciate it. I look forward to being 8o ish days past this instead  of 8  like I am.               Gotta go ,later.                                                                                                                                                                  

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by Hope91171, Apr 20, 2009
Hey Everyone,

Been a while since I posted, tried to keep up with the threads. Tram free for over a month. I can't say I feel GREAT. So tired, everything is such an effort. So many deadlines to meet...This to shall pass. NO more physical symptoms but mood swings and anhedonia(SP?). Memory is terrible. Some days better than others. The rain doesn't help. I know better days are coming so I keep the faith..this to shall pass. Welcome to all those that have found this site, It is a blessing-keeps you going when you think you can't. Take what you can from everyones post and share- We all benefit!!

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by UPSguy, Apr 20, 2009
Wow, some of you anti-tram hams have quite the ability with the written word. I enjoy reading your funny exchanges. Nobody probably remembers me because I only posted once a month or two ago but...

...This is a long time coming but I'm  days cold turkey off trams (was recently taking 10-12 50mg. pills a day) so I'm pretty stoked right now. I have a shoulder surgery in two weeks so I had planned to get off the trams beforehand so that's one less problem to deal with. I've gone through withdrawal so many times that I've gotten creative with finding things, natural and not so natural, to help with the harshness. In the past, benzos were really helpful but they're hard for me to get legally so this time I actually took one of my crazy friends' advice, did some research online authenticating what he told me, and then bought some OTC Robitussin cough syrup (yuck) containing just Dextromethorphan (known on the street as DXM) and that really helped me sail through rough waters relatively unscathed compared to past horror story withdrawals I've had. I took like 100 - 150 mgs. once a day and it not only helped with the anxiety/craving but more importantly the restless legs making my nights alot less restless. I didn't experience any of that vertigo dizziness either. I wasn't even bed-ridden, I felt well enough to go out most days. From what I read, people trip off DXM at super high doses, 5 x the dose I was taking, but I didn't feel anything like that. By the way, I'm not telling anyone in withdrawal to drink 1/4 bottle of cough syrup, I'm just saying what worked for me. There's some legitimate research online concerning DXM and it's effectiveness with opiate withdrawal but you gotta google.

Another thing that helped greatly when I didn't want to stomach disgusting cough syrup was taking the occasional 300mg Trileptal pill every other day. My wife has bi-polar and fibromyalgia so she was prescribed Trileptal among other things and she didn't like what she described as "feeling groggy all day" so she tapered down and stopped. She happened to bring this up in a conversation and I was curious and did some research on it's all-around usage and found out some doctors also prescribe it for anxiety and certain types of pain so I figured I'd try it out and it was extremely helpful. To boot, one of it's side effects was sleepiness and I welcomed that so-called side effect with open arms.

Both medications I used can be dangerous under certain conditions to certain people so it's the same warning as the one above, this is just my experience and what worked for me.

Anyhow, I didn't take anything at all yesterday or today and I do feel alittle depressed and/or unmotivated but on the other hand, that clearing state of mind is something I like, not feeling dazed and clueless all day. What I'm not stoked about is this shoulder surgery I'm getting in 2 weeks because there's a part of me that actually wants to get under the knife just because I know I'll be getting more pain killers soon, damn it :(

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the best outcome...

Everybody take care.





  

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by UPSguy, Apr 20, 2009
Not sure why the number "7" didn't materialize in my post above but I'm seven days off the trams, so I'm going to go celebrate with my newly aquired giant appetite... Steak here I come !

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by BVD660, Apr 20, 2009
Thanks for all your words of encouragement.  I'm with you UPSguy, making it through day 7, YES 7!!! Whahoo. And only a couple of sweat attacks today at work.  

Don't get down on yourself Warrior, it took me 9 years to finally get off this stuff.  

Emily, I just got done reading your journals.  You are a tram warrior!

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by bodegirl, Apr 20, 2009
Hey all,
Welcome to the newbiwes!!  I PROMISE things get better and patience and time is a must-I know its so hard, but each moment, each day you are off the trams, the closer you are to normalcy and FREEDOM!! So hang on all the CTers and the tapperers-I'm thinking of you.  (((HUGS)))

I'm on day 51(I can't believe it!) and I feel great!  I had a moment of "whoa" today as I was running with my dogs and I suddenly wiped out.  I was so pissed that I cut the palm of my hand and that it hurt!  But then I stopped thinking that way and remembered that 51 days ago I was in pure HELL.  I could not even move.  I could not sleep.  I was really wishing I was under anastesia(sp?) for 2 weeks while I suffered through the w/d's.  And on day 10 or so I posted here asking why I still felt "bad" and so tired.  I got soooo much support from all my friends here, not to mention very funny story's(must have humor!), and it got me through.  I kept posting and I kept reading and I got major support all the way through.

So, I got up from my fall and felt so GRATEFUL that I was actually RUNNING!! I could handle a bloody hand-no problem!!  I mean that would not be happening 51 days ago, even 20 days ago.  But now I am FREE!! I can run, I can work, and I can be a better mommy to my 2 darlings!  Also, I can SLEEP(yes it comes back!) and I can eat normally-yeah, along with many other things.

So I'll take a wipe-out in the trails anyday!!

Hugs and love to all,
bode

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by beeb16, Apr 20, 2009
middle of day 6 for me!

feeling better but still a little depressed.
have a healthy apetite. coffee was a great pick me up.
slight fog in my head, went for a walk felt better.
the worst is over, now just the emotional stuff to get out of my system.
this weekend should just about do it.

cold turkey is the only way for me. it has to be all or nothing.

the great blessing i have are a wife who understands, and that i happen to be laid off from
work right now. otherwise, i don't know what i'd do.

peace  beeb

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by grandmagirl, Apr 20, 2009
Grandma girl,
     I was given 50 mg. of tram a year ago for tooth pain and nerve pain. I have been off of this medication for about 1 mos. . I just choose not to take it anymore. I have had some with draw most of all depression and sweating. I thought I was losing my mind and I now know what's up with that....I'M SLUGGING ALONG AND HAVE ONLY MISSED ONE DAY OF WORK WITH A GREAT BIG CRYING SPELL AND DEPRESSION. I think i might be through the worst of it..Any way my prayers to all of you for being so brave...Hang in there it gets better every day...

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by phoenix72, Apr 20, 2009
Hey All!!
Sorry it's been more than a few days since I posted last.  As you can imagine, I wasn't feeling well.  I wonder why?????  Day 6 of being Tram free.  Yeah!  I was finally able to sleep some on Saturday without the use of Tylenol PM.  Continued that way on Sunday as well.  Feeling around 75%.  Don't know if I am still feeling the withdraws or if my need for upcoming surgery is the reason.  Hard to distinguish.  I've had to work also, on Friday and today, and just don't feel like it.

I haven't been able to read all the posts since I left.  I see there are some newbies.  Welcome!  Hope you stay awhile and share.  I know it has been helpful for me.  I am needing to switch my emails.  I do not have a current email.  It should be fairly easy enough for me to get another one, but finding the time lately has not been so easy.  Will soon though.

Fred- wanted to tell you thank you for letting me know about the email.  I wasn't in my best frame of mind.  Thanks.  I also read you post about how work has been going for you.  I am so sorry.  I wanted to let you know, that although I am a social worker...I am a social worker for the public defenders.  I can understand where you are coming from as most of my colleagues here, who are lawyers, deal with that **** on a daily basis.  I GET YOU MAN!! :)  Hang in there.  That was one of the reasons why I haven't posted here for a while.  We had a motion due today, for our client who is on death row.  I just am thankful that on Friday and today I was more out of the fog.  I can also say, that thankfully I wasn't on that damn drug too long that it totally screwed up my part in our case.  Anyhoo...sorry again your boss is a dildo.  

Emily...so sorry your friend left you in your time of need.  Not cool.  Not cool at all.  

I know that there are so many more posts I need to read.  Will do so when I have more time.   Just wanted to check in and let everyone know that I am still kicking it.  

Take care and stay strong.
Cindy

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by beeb16, Apr 20, 2009
good job phoenix!

it's good to know someone else is going through day 6 with me.
the damm computer keeps calling me ,it's like i have so much to share and
so much to say.
I've been down this road before and i know exactly what to expect.but that still doesn't make the time
go by any faster.
That' what it is, Time. Right now that seems to be my best friend. Every morning when i wake up is like a
small victory.
The last time i went cold turkey was in sept. of 08 and honestly i stopped counting the days after 12!
i stopped coming to these forums thinking i had it made.I didn't have a battle plan or even an idea of the temptations
that would come at me.
i think bjb said it best "i want those acute withdrawal symptoms to remain fresh in my mind" let them be
a reminder of how hard this is, and all for what? To make it a couple of week or a month and slip right back
into it! hell no!
tramadol, you got your last ****** kick outta beeb,that's for sure.

peace beeb

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by jooler, Apr 20, 2009
hang in there beeb. the computer keeps callin me to. if im on here i dont feel ne pain. good job 4 makin it six days. im on five with day six commin up at midnight. SCARED but i took an enerygy drink today n i felt alive. i hope the worst is gone i never made it to one week. and i can finally say that im an addict.

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by bigman777, Apr 20, 2009
Hi everybody.Bigman777 here.I had to go the damn car wash today and they did not do a very good job.In fact after already having words with staff about what I wanted done they purposely sprayed  the seats in my car with some industrial strength cleaner and when I got home had to wash all clothes that I had on immediately.Was extremlyp/oed and started to feel like I wanted to get loaded.Not on tramadol but something.Not good!Decided to post and I already feel better and less angry. This might sound like a stupid question but if any of you folks out there got a legal background  do you think lawsuit possible?Still taking ambein and getting about 5 hrs sleep which is good enough sorta.Insomonia ( spell check where are you when I need you) a major problem for about the.last10 years . UPS guy- not sure I agree with your approach about using other drugs to help you get thru but just as I writing that I realized that I had just talked about taking ambein to help me sleep. Oh well hypocrites are us.But seriously if it helps you get thru the experience in 1 piece andpast the taking of the insidious drug known as Tramadol then I'm with you all the way. Still incredibly foggy here on day 8.Feel like my I.Q. has dropped about 40 points.  On day 4 I could not remember if it was 08 or09. I have read some of ya'lls post(sorry ignorant southernor) posts reguarding this particular problem  (foggy)   and that it can last  some fairly good amount of time.Really kind of hoping thats not going to happen to me but if it does I will just have to go with the flow.       Later.

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by beeb16, Apr 20, 2009
hang in there jooler, seems tht the worst of it is over.


tommorow will be a week, then a couple more days it'll be
the weekend then before you know it two weeks.
that's when those "voices" come back .When i feel clear
and strong. They say "just think how great you'll feel" etc...
and so on and so on....  bring it on ******!
I'll bet nobody wants to re-live those first 2-5 days of early
withdrawal!  they seem like a bad dream/nightmare.
this is actually  the first time i've ever had a plan.
I called the "nurses station" and told her to call  the pharm.
and cancel the remaining 5 refills i have left!
not to ever rx me tramadol again!  I believe she understood what i
was saying.
Don get me wrong, if i ever get hurt i'll be asking for painkilllers, but
it wont be tramadol and it wont be longer than a week

this thing is do-able!  I'm starting to see the light,and i'm actually
starting to feel Giddy!  (if anyone knows what i'm talking about)

This evening i feel like i actually reached the top of the mountain.
and now i'm on the easy side going down.

peace, beeb

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by jooler, Apr 20, 2009
ok. it is now day 6. i just got out of a hot bath. i have a huge garden tub so i have used the hell out of it. i took 3 tylonol pms and im ready to try n watch a little tv. i just want to thank yall four listening and helping. i wll pay it forward. man that monster energy drink had me feeling alive today. i had employees ask me if i was ok because i was so cheerful. the more i think obout it i think it was my victory i had last night. i laid on the couch n for the first time i did not hurt. i was comfortably numb. though the sleep only lasted an hour it felt like i won a small battle. it gave me confidence. i know now that im gonna make it. my wife kissed me on the cheek this mornin and told me she was proud of me. damntearjerkin bs. ok ok i cried. i can now see the joys of sobriety. im sure ill return in an hour or so but peace out for now

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by FinallyFred, Apr 21, 2009
Shade,  You might be surprised that now having tapered, your final jump off may not be as bad as what you think.  I always found that when I had to "taper" at the end of each RX cycle and go from 8-10 pills/day down to say 4 pills/day, it was really not so much better feeling than when I eventually stopped c/t. The difference is that if you can tough it out now 3-5 days after you stop, you need not ever have to go through this again.  

Warrior -   You said,

"Have been 'gone' for a while.  I was down to a very low taper, almost off altogether, when I basically gave up.  something in me wasnt/isn't ready yet.  I WAS down to 3/day, but then went back up to 30/day within just a few days of relapsing.  I took 5 this morning."

You already know that you don't need to be ashamed, so I won'd say that again.  But NOT everyone in the world except you is successful Warrior.  Not by a long shot.  I suspect that if someone went back contacted all of the names of people who have posted here, who  are no longer are posting, you would find that there is a decent percentage of people who never made it.  But unlike some of them, you did make it back.  Always remember, you don't need to be feasting on milk and honey to hang around this place.  A DESIRE to get there is all that is needed.

For better or worse, thee aren't any tramadol police around here either.  It's entirely voluntary whether to ever log on here again or not.  There won't be any bed checks happening..  

I am convinced that if I approached ending the tramdaol the way I approached drinking for years and years, and just "tried to cut back", "tomorrow would never have come for me either."   When I finally knew I had to stop drinking, tapering would not have worked.  Maybe if I didn't have such a darned addictive personality, i could have given it up gradually.  But I just am not wired that way.  And for me, tramadol was the same thing.  

When I first got here in early December, I used to find myself getting into debates with people over whether it was better to taper or stop cold turkey.  As a few months have passed, my approach moderated to  "whatever works".  But if someone has tried one method and it isn't working, try something else for heavens sake.  

Hope,  I wasn't 100% at 30 days either.  Just keep putting days between yourself and that last pill and that can't be a bad thing.  ((hugs))

Cindy,  You are doing great.  Six days and thing should be settling down.  But remember like we say around here, recovery is not linear.  I.E., you will string a couple of GREAT days together and then wam, you have a setback.  I was feeling pretty darned emotional on day 6.  Cried at a rock that day.  And for me, lack of concentration took "weeks and weeks" to get over.  Others have other post acute symptoms like depression, anxiety, sleeplessness, etc. on a random basis.

Medhelp from work:  Everyone's situation is naturally different.  I never linked Medhelp to my work email address, but that first month, I used to check my personal email account from work and log onto Medhelp that way several times/day during work hours.   I practice law for a Fortune 500 Company and their policy is that your work computer is subject to being monitored. So at a time when I was doing less than 100% focused work, I didn't want anyone to look into the reasons why and find that I had spent even 20 minutes on Medhelp during the day fro work.  But maybe that's just me.  

I don't have much experience kicking drugs, except the booze, which I stopped eight years ago.  But I know for certain that even for all I drank, I didn't have THIS sort of lingering withdrawal symptoms.  But like I want to say about every 30 days or so here, IF A DRUG WANTS ME THAT BAD, IT CAN'T HAVE ME.  If tramadol is still messing with me weeks and weeks after stopping it, I am not sure that I WANT to see WHY this dam-a-tram packs such a whallop.

UPS, Jooler and beep, you are doing wonderfully.  I hope you keep posting.  

Bigman,  join the foggy headed clan.  I felt like my I.Q. dropped 40 points as well. I didn't have that much to give up either!  Actually, it wasn't the "thinking" that fell off, but the focusing and short term memory.  Most of that has returned, now 4 1/2 months later, but I am still working off the backlog of work that I built up that first month or two coming off the trams.  

You asked about perfecting a successful lawsuit...assuming you mean against the drug manufacturers and who knows who else?  Here's the short conclusion I reached and my advice...win the batle one person at a time.  If you successfully kick this stuff, do everything in your power to help the next person.  The time you might spend doing this would pay much higher rewards than entertaining the notion of a lawsuit.  

Someday, a big New York lawfirm with oddles of $$$ for research and prosecution will probably file a class action lawsuit.  Most attorneys wouldn't even take such a remote case such as this, let alone expect to win it.  Hell, look how difficult it is to even get reliable information on this drug online.

When I first started coming out of the fog, I sent a ton of email to the FDA, the DEA, and several other Federal and State Offices.  Any guesses on how many responses I even got? NONE, NADDA, Zilch.  I challenge anyone to even go online and research which states have listed tramadol as a class IV controlled substance?  Let me know how you do.  Next try to find out which other states are considering similar legislation?  What do you find?  Next try to find out why it is that the DEA or the FDA has not taken further actions to limit the sale of tramadol online?  And there is the world.  Other than a ffew countries like Sweeden, which otehr contries have done any better?  There is a hierachy of litigation from the easist to win to the most difficult.  And I'd put a medical malpractice lawsuit against a big drug manufacturer at the very bottom of probable winners.

Nope, for my money and time, the best approach is to focus my limited time and attention on getting well myself, and then on sharing my experience, strength ahd hope with others.  

Goodnight all,

Fred


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by bigman777, Apr 21, 2009
Bigman777 here. Warrior 3071- Please don't feel that you are alone! About 1000 times today I have  thought it sure would be great to have some pain meds for the pain and todays pain has not even been that bad.I just want to be medicated (opiates please)_Stinkin thinkin basically.Not rational, just addict thinking.I was always able to kick  fairly easily on the other opiates so all this has come as avery unpleasantt surprise.BOO! But coming to site has really helped me a lot. So hang in on getting off the Tram because we support you all the way! Best of luck Bigman777.  Gotta  go. Later all.

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by Shadetree, Apr 21, 2009
Hello everyone,

Well that is it, I took the last of it today. So recovery is starting. But believe me the "voices" are super loud today! Almost yelling at me. Debates have taken my mind and that is all I have been thinking about. This started last night. I remember why I would just "give in" so I could focus on something else besides tramadol. Jeeze...feed the damn thing so I can get on with my day....

Anyway I hope you are right Fred, I would like to not miss any work, but I know the "dont wanna do anything" feeling is coming. I planned on starting taking my wellbuterin as soon as I got off, but I did some research last night and I dont think it will be such a good Idea just yet. Wellbuterin lowers your seizure threshold as does tramadol, so Im kinda scared to jump right in ecspecially if I am to be alone on thurs & fri. We will see, I will probably try natural stuff first during the worst 5 days... I went to buy supplies like vitamins and everything I have found that will help. To my suprise, pleasant suprise I might add, I already have everything in my cabinet from when I was a heath nut before.)

So here I go....wish me luck. Im sure I will be posting lots the next couple of days. I am so thankful for all of you, I cant even imagine where I would be right now if I hadnt found this site...)

xoxo ~ Shade

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by 2Sue, Apr 21, 2009
well done shade, wotever you are feeling the next few days, its the tram out of your body, a bit more at a time....
write down your cravings feelings etc keep posting.  i took my vits and milder painkillers  etc when i would normally take my tram.(.found myself automatically going to get tram at certain times). I craved coffee and had an itchy nose..ha ha dont know why.still have it actually..and then the sneezes. not forgetting needing the loo constantly. tram must affect the kidneys too.
we are all with you.
remember the serotonin effect will play havoc with you.eat protein regular and carbs at night.(increases sero overnight.)

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by beeb16, Apr 21, 2009
waking up on day 7  for  me!

i have to admit, i'm feeling pretty good. about 90 percent!
i did wake up and sneeze though.which is something i never do.
no aches,no pains. very,very slight fogginess. very little.
I plan on doing some grocery shopping. Something i havent been
able to do in about 7 days do to the shakiness of my driving.
My senses have been super high,sight,smell etc...
everything seems intensified 100 percent.

best of luck to everyone, i'll post more as the day goes on.

beeb

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by jooler, Apr 21, 2009
wow so this is sobriety. day 6 n i feel goood. gotta go to work now. you guys take care. i actually slept last nite!!!!!!!!


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by noodlegrl, Apr 21, 2009
Day 27 - I am doing well!

Shade - you can do it! I tapered and jumped and most physical symptoms (that I remember) I didn't really have. It was all mostly anxiety and lack of motivation/lower energy. I have sooo much faith that you will be A-OK!!! *Hugs*

All the new people seem to be doing really well! Already well on the way :) So proud of you guys! Keep posting :)

Warrior - never be ashamed for this! It is why we are here! And the more you post (whether you slip up or not) the better you'll be. We are here to motivate you! Please continue to detail your battle for us, it helps us remember and helps us help you!

Bode - Hiyas! You sound awesome! *HUGS*

Congrats everyone!

Another one of those busy days... so can't lolligag around :( So sowwies...

Hugs!

~Noodle



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by TramaBarf, Apr 21, 2009
Way to go Shade!  You can DO it!!

So its day 29 here.

I have a question for all of you who have gotton off this yucky drug.  Did your kidneys throb at all?  It seems like my kidneys are hurting so bad!  Also I go #1 alot. This COULD be due to drinking a more than usual amount of water/gatorade...I do NOT think this is a UTI. (Had them before, not the same feeling)

Im going to Dr. Drug Pusher tomorrow, and NO I am not going to ask for anything, except a shot in my back, and bloodwork to be drawn.  But if this kidney throbing thing is due to the TramaHell, then I prefer to just not tell him about it. (otherwise he will order more testing if it is not a UTI)  He does not know that I ever went back on that stuff, and I do NOT want to tell him.  (records went to attorney's already....gota watch what I say and do now)

For all of you on your way up the hill...GO GO GO!!  For all of you who are at the top...YEY!!  Im on my way!!  Wait up for me!!

And Fred- Yes it DOES take a village!!  Seriously, and HONESTLY, if it wasn't for this board, I would have just given up at some point.  After reading all the stories, journeys, etc. etc.  I realized there IS hope.  There IS people out there addicted to this stuff.  I was NOT wrong on how I was feeling....  This drug takes a hold of you by your HAIR, and does NOT let go until you cut it LOOSE!!

So day 29, and I am still waking up before 5am?  WTH is up with that??  Grrrrrrrrr.  I need to go back in these journals and find out when everyones, I am now pretty much healed part came.  It feels that I am way more than half way there.  But this da rn anxiety sometimes just REALLY gets to me. WOOF!

A good day to you all, and sorry I did not answer everyones postings.  I have all of you in my thoughts/prayers daily and nightly.  Its a long journey.  It is a BIG decision.  It is a HARD decision, and some of us (like me) went back and made the not so right decision...but there is always time to start over again.  I did.

I joined another website...its an online group, support. (No tramadol people there, I created a room, no one has came)  Its called Intherooms.  Its like an online NA, AA.  I have met great people there, and what HONESTLY got me to say, "DO NOT TURN BACK." is when I first joined, I think it was four days into stopping this nasty drug, someone messaged me, "Welcome home."  "You are a miracle."  Now at that time, I bauled my eyes out....but, I sat there and thought.  They are RIGHT.  I AM a miracle.  I have done miracles in my life.  What am I thinking?  You HAVE TO LIVE.  So that was my Oprah "ahhhh," moment.

Then I read this board daily for support.  I learned to take it one minute at a time sometimes.  Never taking it a day or a week at a time.  Because things (withdrawls) can change in a instant!  Just because now is s u c k y, does not mean that two hours from now will be.  For all of you going through withdrawls take it one minuite at a time, and please, remember always.  WE ARE ALL MIRACLES!

Peace out, and you all have a most beautiful day.

JC

PS.  I have a confession. I have like 40 tramadols upstairs.  I have yet to flush them. I don't know WHY I have held on to them, but RIGHT this second, I am going upstairs to flush.  ( Why am I getting all jittery even thinking about this?)  This is the time.  This is the day.  Im gona FLUSH.  Ill write ya'all later and tell you how the flushing experience felt, hehehe.  Hopefully good!!  On my way now!



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by TramaBarf, Apr 21, 2009
Quick update:  Just flushed 28.  (thought there was about 40, I was wrong) Counted each one as they went PLOP in the toilet.  Now I feel really wierd, like jittery, anxietish, sick to my stomach, and happy all at once?  Da rn emotions!!  

But....now I am TRULY done.  I am done.  Cya Tramadol, cause I do not WANT you, nor can not AFFORD you ever again.  Thanks for the couple of months I felt 'healed," and for the YEARS you wasted my money, my LIFE, and my familys LIFE.  Go right where you belong.....in the SEWER with the other RATS.  I hate you.  Good bye.  

K now im crying.  Whats up with that?  (deep breath)

Thanks for letting me vent all.  Once again, have a great day.

JC

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by noodlegrl, Apr 21, 2009
WOW JC! YAY!! I remember what it felt like to flush my last of the devil pills. It is a very freeing experience! I am proud for all flushers! No turning back!!!! YAY YAY YAY !!! *HUGS!!*

For me, when I flushed mine, I knew that that was the END! I could never return. And knowing you don't have a stash to tempt you helps the cravings. At least it did for me because after that never had the slightest inkling :)

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by TramaBarf, Apr 21, 2009
Thanks much for your support noodlegrl!  

Wierd thing is...it feels so freeing, yet so depressing?  What is up with that? I mean, I should be OVERJOYED, EXTATIC, FREE.....and instead I feel death?  Like someone just died?  Like I miss my Father? I know these are just "drug," thoughts at this time, but.

Wait I get it.  It was like the feeling like you KNOW that you have to taper for the next week or so cause your Dr. appointment isn't for two more weeks.  The anxietyish feeling, like I am gona run out!!  Like soon!!  (and you know you CANT or the withdrawls will start)

I would think that after a MONTH or almost a month off this cra p, these feelings would be gone?  But like I said before, sometimes its just a minute, sometimes a second at a time.  This too shall pass.  Here is for prayers that this feeling is tempory for the feeling of EXCITEMENT to come later on today.  (Maybe even a half hour from now)

Today I truly can call myself addict.  Yuck, that WORD.  But I have to tell myself this.  This is a ADDICTS thoughts.  You were and ARE addicted to this as many has called it...starting with Emily.  POISON.

And thanks for the ((((Huggie)))) I really needed that.

I WILL be able to post later on how free I feel. Just right at this second, it is like a bitter sweet feel.  Kinda like my X.  I am so happy he is GONE, yet wish he had never left?  Heheh.  Wait, I take that back.  I wish he was HERE money wise, but mentally, I am glad he is GONE.

Thanks again to you, thanks again to all.  You all are truly a blessing.

JC

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by beeb16, Apr 21, 2009
Excellent job jc!

i had a big, fat, 120 bottle of trams just waiting for me at the pharm. yesterday.
called the nurse to call the pharm and cancel, also to never,ever rx me that ****.
Sure, i had a moment of anxiety with that, "what if i need them"?
****, i don't need them, it's just those voices talking.

speaking of one second, one minute at a time, I can remember day 2,not being ,
able to get comfortable for one second. I had to get up and just pace back and
forth in my living room,while listening to the "woodstock" soundtrack. thinking
peace and love,and good vibes and energy,etc...
then night came, then day 3 a little better and so on .
here i am at day 7 and i feel pretty much fine, looking forward to going out to
"the bucks" (starbucks) as i call it. Haven't been able to do that in a week.
they're probably wondering what happened to me. Ha ha.
good luck to all and more later.


love, peace and chicken grease.
beeb

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by midnightdoc, Apr 21, 2009
I was thinking about getting Tramadol cause I've been on hydros for pain for a tear now. It doesn't sound like that would be the thing to do. The hydros aren't working anymore. What else is there to cover my chronic pain? How do y'all get over your pain now that you are quitting this drug?

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by Michael524, Apr 21, 2009
Hey all,

Been about 3 1/2 weeks not since I have stopped the Tramadol.  Had some minor surgery on Friday and the doc gave me some Lortab.  Took 2 on Friday,  3 on Saturday and 2 on Sunday.  Knowing myself and knowing I am not in ANY pain from minor surgery now (well nothing that tylenol can't cure) I did NOT take any Monday and will not take anymore.  Feels good to be in control of my body again.

No more electric jolts from Tram withdraw now YEH!  For those that are still taking Tramadol and do not have a clue, it sux.   You can be fine one moment and then all of a sudden you get this thing that feels like an electric jitter.  It hits you every now and then and its not constant.  More than likely its your Central Nervous system trying to jump start you saying "Hey! where is my tramadol at?"  

Hang in there it gets better!

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by bigman777, Apr 21, 2009
Hi everybody.Bigman777 here.Feeling almost normal today on day 10, I'm proud to say.Even so, I can tell that the electric jolts are not gone permanently yet.Thinking almost normally and don't want to cry over every little thing but can tell that symptom  is not gone completely over yet either.I have a feeling of lightness in the back of my head that I get when on drugs or coming off drugs ...This feeling always feels really good going up the escalltor sp (sorry,educated but can't spell or punctuate ) but really sux on the way down.Fred-thanks for the valuable information you shared with me but to be honest I was thinking about litigation against the car wash people who purposely poisoned the interior of my car. Tramabarf-I am so glad you asked the question about the kidneys!Having the same problem but with my long history(35 years)of problems with Prostate and several serious urinary tract infections every year I was quite not quite sure what was going on.Going to that Doc on thursday for more antibioitics (3rd course in last month)He is also myDoc feelgood and am going to have the talk about the evils of of the big Tram when I see him!                 Thanks to all of you  for your help and support ! Later bigman.

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by grandmagirl, Apr 21, 2009
Hi everyone...Grandmagirl here....I'm really depressed today..Is that common? It's been over a mos. since I quit taking 50 mg. a day. What can I expect to feel like in the next few weeks. I'm at work and really starting to have panic attacks...Somebody help...

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by noodlegrl, Apr 21, 2009
Grandmagirl - depression is very common during acute withdrawal and also during post acute withdrawal - acute lasts up to a couple weeks and post acute randomly rears its ugly head up to a year after stopping the trams. If its affecting your day to day life you may want to talk to your doctor or try a natural depression remedy (if you scroll back through days of posts you can see where I listed some). I hope this helps. Hang in there! *hugs*

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by KC67, Apr 21, 2009
Grandmagirl,
Yes...it is completely normal to have depression and anxiety at 30 days out.  

For me, the depression began to lift at 45 days - but not completely.  It took a good 60 days for me to feel almost normal again.

Tramadol withdrawal is random.  It affects everyone differently, but one day you could feel great and then 2 days later, you may feel depressed and anxious and apathetic.

Don't give up.  You may feel better in 30 minutes - that's the maddening thing about the Trams- there is nothing you can predict.

kc

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by 2Sue, Apr 21, 2009
hi im about 31 days off now.
tramabarf im pu,ing a lot more since stopping,but not getting kidney pain,,dont need to tell doc why if you dont want but explain pain and they should check you out.

midnight ive got chronic abdomen/chest pain post op and finding pain relief has been a problem,,first week off tram pain was bad then it settled but this week its worse..im taking co-codamol and have added ibuprofen. doctor arranging me a tens machine....ive tried codeine and dyhydrocodeine but make me sleepy..diclofenic produces stomach acid which is no good for my achalasia condition...im lucky cause im in england and only pay prescription charges so tabs dont bresk the bank if they dont work for me.
hi grandmagirl, im about where you are and yes ive got depression too but surprisingly has started to lift past few days.im trying to keep busy and.ive start seeing my friends again and actually telling them how i feel,,probably scrared them off now.lol.ive not kept this tram taking and withdrawal from anyone.ill tell whoever will listen.but withdrew  bit from friends for a while.. for panic attacks  (they are very scary) i use lavendar oil. a few drops on my collar or a tissue and just breathe slowly or go for a walk.
you are doing well..can you take time off and have some rest and relaxation..im lucky i only work two days, but manager aware of whats going on and has been very supportive and has seen me in a bad state and ive gone home.


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by EmilyPost, Apr 21, 2009
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/82229

Hi everyone,  this thread is super long, so let's close and move on to Part 7!

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/82229

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by BVD660, Apr 21, 2009
Tramabarf - I know how hard it is to flush the stash.  I dumped over 200 down the drain a couple of days ago and it was the hardest thing I had to do.  But we did it, and they're no longer in the cupboard tempting us.  

Way to go beeb on cancelling the rx at the pharmacy.  I need to do the same on my refills.

Michael and Bigman - It's day 8 off trams for me but I certainly know what you mean by the electric jolt.  I am still getting them and they usually make me really cold or really hot and instantly sweaty.  I hope it goes away soon along with this anxiety, but the symptoms seem to come and go and are so random.  Still taking it day by day.

Shade - Stick with it and don't give in.  I tapered down to nothing over several months and it did lessen the physical w/d symptoms.  I tapered down to 12.5 mg per day before I fully quit but still had pretty severe anxiety, chills, sweats, electric jolts for the first 3 to 4 days.  Just get through those days and it will start to get better.

Fred - Great post as usual. Always very insightful.

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by sandie1977, Apr 21, 2009
hello again.

Last night was pure HELL!!!!!

I woke up every hour, with the feeling that someone (or something) was trying to pull my legs off my body.
Then I had realized I CANT SLEEP! OMG! I CHERISH SLEEP!

Major audit at work today and managed to get through it, but the people were looking at me funny. (Im sure I had the "glassy eye look"

Right now, my brain is on high speed crack! I feel frenzied, happy (giddy), its not right...

Im never happy...

Last night I had such a feeling of doom.

Today I was laughing and cutting up with co-workers, usually ( I work at  a prison as a nurse) I am snapping all the inmates heads off telling them to get lost, you have no idea what pain is. My boss told me I have to chill.

Then I am acting like this...

Guess, I need to break the news to her that I am breaking up with Tramadol. Dont know how she'll take it.

Tomorrow I work 13 hours.

I am down to two a day (still)

Comfortable with that dose. Tried going 16 hours without a pill, Lawdy Gees that was... welll... not sure how to describe the intense feeling of rage, sadness, depression.

Will I EVER BE ABLE TO GET DOWN TO NONE????????????????????????????????????????

I dont have sweats so much, used to be the mornings were the worst for me, now I stare at my bed at night and think *** will I get one solid hour of sleep? ****

Well, I wanted to ask posters on here if they expierenced weight loss with the tramadol and if so did you gain weight once you were off? I was 140 pounds at 5'5" tall when I started taking, and now I am barely able to hold 100 lbs. at 5'5" (still)  *** no effect on the height***

Sandie (who wishes for one night of sleep)



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by Spacey303, Apr 22, 2009
A big fat THANK YOU to EmilyPost and you all!

I'm new to the community and just completed reading this thread about Tramadol. It's tough to write this through the tears of laughter, sadness, hopefullness, and truth you all have brought about. I write as a profession (and thus read a LOT!) and I haven't read thoughts as compelling, touching and well-written as those provided by Emily, Hill Billy, Noodle, Kev -- just to name a few...

I've had 6 spinal surgeries (including 3 anterior fusions and 1 posterior fusion) in the past 2 years and have been on just about every pain med out there...including the dreaded Tramadol. I took the "Tramadol vacations" mentioned and experienced...well...everything here. And I thought I was alone. Alone in the thoughts, feelings and behaviors I experienced while taking Tramadol.

I'm so happy (and simultaneously saddened) I've found kindred spirits! I've read words here that I NEEDED to hear right NOW. I'm not religious, but spiritual, so I'll proudly declare, "The divine forces in the Universe must have brought me to this community tonight because they knew I needed it!"

I've been off Tramadol for almost a year but have recently thought about going back on it. But that "ain't" gonna happen now! Thank you all for creating this wonderful place!!!

(P.S. I'd VERY much like to know more, Emily, (or anyone else!) about the compulsive consumerism you mentioned. I TOTALLY did that and didn't even realize until reading your post that this could have been part of my Tramadol haze. PLEASE tell me more about your experiences in this area!! Only by learning more about this behavior and what drives it can I understand my past behavior and create a different future for myself...and who better to learn from than others who have experienced it? Please share with me...
-- S

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by grandmagirl, Apr 22, 2009
Spacey 303

     What ever you do.....do NOT go back on Tram....I'm about 30 days out and I still feel like hell. Morning sweats and the HAZE is awful followed with major depression. I'm forcing myself to go to work. It does help a lot. DO NOT GO BACK ON the DRUG. It will get better..Your in my thoughts and prayers...

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by andreea13, Apr 22, 2009
hello there my fiance after getting off methadone after 6 years of use has come off it abruptly and was taking morphine and now is taking 2000 mg a day of tramadol. Ive been ready on the internet about this medication but havent found much help how can he come of tramadol if his on such a high dose? please help

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by grandmagirl, Apr 23, 2009
Is anyone out there having leg cramps, knee pain coming off tram? My left knee has swollen up and leg is going numb as is my left foot. Did any of you have this going on during with draw? Depression and hot sweats are starting to lift.

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by grandmagirl, Apr 23, 2009
Thank you 2Sue and everyone that has given me help. I can't take time off work as I'm supposed to be running the show here. I have lots of people working for me. I work for a rather large company and I don't think anyone has a glue as to what I'm going through .Well thats what I think... who knows what they think...I was so surprised to find all of you and so very happy I did. Everyone of your thoughts and stories have helped me cope.. I really thought this is it.."I'm Crazy and it happened overnight". I just stopped taking tram because I didn't feel like I needed it anymore for pain. I had no idea that it might have been a better idea to wean myself. When I stopped the tram I didn't feel bad right away it sorta jumped up on me . When it hit me it was awful I felt like I was instantly crazy and insane. Thank you for the information on the panic part of the with draw. Those attacks are really creepy. I have 4 grown children and 10 grandchildren and I have never felt panic  like this in my life. Husband is very supportive and calm. I must look like a spider monkey to him right now. Lots of leg cramping and swollen knee not related to why I was given tram. This afternoon I noticed my foot going numb. Same leg that is swollen. Any info on this? Thanks for all your Help...

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by Michael524, May 06, 2009
Hey all!

Roughly day 35 for me here.  I have done very well and have not cheated once.  No more electric joltz and I am sleeping better.  Motivation to go to the gym is there,  but I am still not physically going.  Whats wrong with me?  I guess I am afraid of physical change too.  

This week was rough as far as cravings go.  Why week 5?  Why not week 2 or 3?  Anyways,  had to talk myself out of calling the pharmacy to get a refill. I am feeling anxious about something and I can't put my finger on it.  Had to call some bill collectors and I wanted the "Tramadol Michael" to call and not me,  you see thats how I use to deal with stuff.  Tramadol Michael was tuff, could think clear, could deal with problems more efficiently.  I was fairly worry free about stuff while on the tram.

Anyone else get cravings this far out?

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by Michael524, May 11, 2009
I think I might be falling to my cravings.  Anyone out there?

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by Teri1970, May 13, 2009
I'm here.  Don't take it.  Hope you haven't.  I'm not the strongest to give advice.  But I am at a point where I know the shit is poison.  Stay strong!

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by Teri1970, May 13, 2009
Hey out there...i need help.  Even thought I have been on and off this shit (ultram) for the past 10 years, It has been awhile since I have attempted to quit.  Now I am going cold turkey.  Not by choice, but I really have to wonder if it's not the best way for me.  I was up to about 36 pills a day and can only imagine how long it would take to taper.  I am so ready to be off of them.  But I am writing to get tips on conquering the withdrawal symptoms.  What can i do or take to help me get through this?  Anyone with this similar dosage having gone cold turkey?  Please post all the tips you can.  Thank you.


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by burgi, Dec 06, 2009
By Burgi 2009,December 6  21:34  UK                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello out there. I've taken tramadol for about 6 years.  I took it in the first place for pain, then i realized it worked wonders for my depression . I take 400ml per day . For the last 2 years i have been feeling weak ,sweating all the time,i also  have become a recluse .  I never see anyone, they all have gone, even my three grown up children.    In order to get my life back i have to do  ' cold turkey ' .  I hope with my sleeping pills it will help me a little + all the other things you mentioned.   I'm VERY AFRAID !!

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by pharma9, Dec 06, 2009
burgi..I took the liberty to cut and paste(anew skill for me) to ther current thread which is number 22.At the upper right corner click on next till you come to 22.That is the latest thread.See you there.

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by PepeLhasaApso, Jan 12, 2010
Happy new year everyone.
Tramadol withdrawal symptoms are awful. I have been on slow release tramadol for 4 years. The worst is the restless legs, I cannot stay still even for a second. It is exhausting. I take them for chronic pain, but now I do not know which is worse, the pain or the dependence.

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