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Not again!
May 17, 2009 09:38PM
- 21 comments
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I am so discouraged. When I went out to feed my dogs this evening, I noticed when I put the dish down for Bryce that the fuzz around his muzzle has fallen out again and the skin is raw. Great. This only means he is going to have to fight yet ANOTHER battle with demodex mange!
I'm so sad about this. I've had Bryce for 10 months now, and from day one I've treated him for demodex. It got better, cleared up for awhile, then came back with a vengence, only the stupid vet clinic I took him to had a moron treating him for skin allergies instead of mange and never even did a skin scraping. So not only did the demodex come back with a vengence, but I spent an arm and a leg treating him for allergies that he never had, and nearly all his hair fell out and he mutilated literally half the skin on his body from chewing and scratching.
Well, when a good vet finally looked at him and did a skin scraping and said he had a severe infestation of demodex mites, he was put on a super high dose of Ivomec and a double dose of antibiotics because his skin was so mutilated. I kept him on Ivomec for a month and a half. It seemed like forever.
But he recovered. I was so relieved and so was Bryce. His hair has completely grown back and the skin on his belly (the worst area) has almost no scarring. He had complete hair growth back by early April. In fact, I was extatic when I had to brush out his winter coat he was shedding--because he was shedding!
I have been watching him so closely for how much he scratches and chews at himself, and he's done nothing for two months. I've been able to sleep because he's not keeping me up at night anymore with his constant scratching, chewing, whining and pacing. I thought we'd beat this.
Then, as always has happened before, hair disappears from him scratching somewhere within hours. He was fine this morning, even this afternoon.
I'm devastated. I'm putting so much money and effort into treating something that seems to be incurable. What am I doing wrong?
I'm so sad tonight; I actually cried after I fed him, because I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what course of action is going to be next, or how much it will cost, and if it will even cure it permanently. I never expected to adopt a dog that had chronic health issues like this. I thought when I got him that mange would be easy to get him over; I've had dogs with mange before. They get treated for 30-40 days with Ivomec, and a small dose, then it's gone.
Not so with Bryce. It seems his dose keeps getting higher, and the problem keeps coming back. He's healthy in every other way. He is high energy, intelligent, happy and playful, bright eyes, good appetite--the picture of perfect health other than this irritating mange issue.
Ivomec is expensive and so are the vet visits, and I swear it's like this is becoming a huge money pit because every 1-3 months he has a breakout. And a severe breakout with hair loss and bloody, inflamed skin.
I don't know what to do anymore. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I'll be taking him to the vet again tomorrow, but I feel sick thinking about going through this again. I never expected this chronic health issue. I thought I was just getting a young adult dog who was healthy, other than needing a simple treatment for mange, then yay, I have a great dog for X number of years. Instead, these last 10 months have been a stressful nightmare.
I'm seriously thinking if, after this treatment this comes back again, he will need something better--someone better for him. I just want to cry thinking about it. But I need to do what's best for Bryce, and I don't make a great deal of money. I can easily afford two healthy dogs, but Bryce clearly has needs that are exceeding my budget. I've already put a chunk of my savings into his vet care. But I can't keep doing this.
I'm going to bawl my eyes out and cry for days on end if I have to give him back to the rescue shelter. :-(
I just don't know what I'm doing wrong.
I'm so sad about this. I've had Bryce for 10 months now, and from day one I've treated him for demodex. It got better, cleared up for awhile, then came back with a vengence, only the stupid vet clinic I took him to had a moron treating him for skin allergies instead of mange and never even did a skin scraping. So not only did the demodex come back with a vengence, but I spent an arm and a leg treating him for allergies that he never had, and nearly all his hair fell out and he mutilated literally half the skin on his body from chewing and scratching.
Well, when a good vet finally looked at him and did a skin scraping and said he had a severe infestation of demodex mites, he was put on a super high dose of Ivomec and a double dose of antibiotics because his skin was so mutilated. I kept him on Ivomec for a month and a half. It seemed like forever.
But he recovered. I was so relieved and so was Bryce. His hair has completely grown back and the skin on his belly (the worst area) has almost no scarring. He had complete hair growth back by early April. In fact, I was extatic when I had to brush out his winter coat he was shedding--because he was shedding!
I have been watching him so closely for how much he scratches and chews at himself, and he's done nothing for two months. I've been able to sleep because he's not keeping me up at night anymore with his constant scratching, chewing, whining and pacing. I thought we'd beat this.
Then, as always has happened before, hair disappears from him scratching somewhere within hours. He was fine this morning, even this afternoon.
I'm devastated. I'm putting so much money and effort into treating something that seems to be incurable. What am I doing wrong?
I'm so sad tonight; I actually cried after I fed him, because I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what course of action is going to be next, or how much it will cost, and if it will even cure it permanently. I never expected to adopt a dog that had chronic health issues like this. I thought when I got him that mange would be easy to get him over; I've had dogs with mange before. They get treated for 30-40 days with Ivomec, and a small dose, then it's gone.
Not so with Bryce. It seems his dose keeps getting higher, and the problem keeps coming back. He's healthy in every other way. He is high energy, intelligent, happy and playful, bright eyes, good appetite--the picture of perfect health other than this irritating mange issue.
Ivomec is expensive and so are the vet visits, and I swear it's like this is becoming a huge money pit because every 1-3 months he has a breakout. And a severe breakout with hair loss and bloody, inflamed skin.
I don't know what to do anymore. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I'll be taking him to the vet again tomorrow, but I feel sick thinking about going through this again. I never expected this chronic health issue. I thought I was just getting a young adult dog who was healthy, other than needing a simple treatment for mange, then yay, I have a great dog for X number of years. Instead, these last 10 months have been a stressful nightmare.
I'm seriously thinking if, after this treatment this comes back again, he will need something better--someone better for him. I just want to cry thinking about it. But I need to do what's best for Bryce, and I don't make a great deal of money. I can easily afford two healthy dogs, but Bryce clearly has needs that are exceeding my budget. I've already put a chunk of my savings into his vet care. But I can't keep doing this.
I'm going to bawl my eyes out and cry for days on end if I have to give him back to the rescue shelter. :-(
I just don't know what I'm doing wrong.
Ah Honey, I'm so, so sorry you're going through this, especially with all that's happened with your mom and such. :( You've been under so much stress lately, haven't you?
I went and looked up what I could on Mange. I thought I'd share some of it here. Maybe there's some kind of different treatment you can try or something. The one articule did suggest that it's usually in younger dogs and can last up to a year or 14 months and is passed on from the mom to the pups. It can be that he has a weakened immune system. Let me go and look up some more. Here's what I found so far:
The most common type of mange is demodectic mange or demodicosis. Caused by a microscopic mite that lives in the skin called Demodex canis, it is not contagious. It is found mostly in young dogs, who acquire it from their mothers. The mites are transferred from mother to pup during the first few days of life. An older pup cannot pick up Demodex mites, and puppies raised by hand will not acquire them either. It is not transmitted to humans or spread among adult dogs. The mites produce a substance that can lower a dog's natural resistance to them, and in this way they multiply. Demodectic mange is more common in oily-skinned shorthairs and pubescent dogs. Predisposition to demodicosis seems to be hereditary.
Localized demodectic mange can last for up to a year. The first sign is a small, hairless patch near the eye, chin, or forelegs that doesn't itch much. For young dogs, there is a 90% chance it will clear up by itself by fourteen months of age, unless there is a family history of demodicosis, in which case it drops to 50%. For unknown reasons, in a small number of dogs it will continue to spread. An adult dog may also occasionally develop localized demodicosis. There is hair thinning around the eyelids, lips, corners of the mouth, and the front legs, presenting a moth-eaten appearance. In most dogs, after one to two months the hair begins to grow back, and in three months the skin is healed. Topical insecticide preparations can also be used, but often it is better to allow the condition to resolve on its own.
Generalized demodicosis is characterized by multiple hair loss patches on the head, legs, and trunk that coalesce to form large bald areas. Hair follicles are plugged with mites and debris, and the skin forms sores, crusts, scales, and bald areas, with draining sinus tracts. Lymph nodes may be enlarged. At this point, the dog becomes susceptible to other serious illnesses.
In 30% to 50% of dogs under the age of one year, recovery occurs without treatment. However, treatment is usually recommended to facilitate recovery. An older dog should not develop generalized demodicosis unless it has an underlying problem with its immune system, possibly even cancer.
Generalized demodicosis is diagnosed by skin scrapings. It can be treated with an insecticide ointment to the infected parts three times daily. Relapse is possible, but most dogs that relapse do so within six to twelve months of the end of treatment. Older dogs may never be cured, and treatment will have to be chronic.
Traditional treatment includes dips of Mitaban, a potent insecticide, every week or two, preceded by a hair clipping and benzoyl peroxide shampoo to clear up skin infections and open the hair follicles, where the mites live. Side effects include drowsiness, vomiting, diarrhea, and uncoordination. Mitaban should not be used on small dogs or very young puppies. When skin scrapings are negative twice in a row, the dip and bath regimen is stopped, and the dog is rechecked in one month.
Newer treatments include Interceptor, also used as a heartworm preventative, administered daily. However, this is an expensive alternative because it has to be continued for three months.
Ivermectin is a heartworm preventative that can be given daily to treat generalized demodectic mange. It is cheaper than Interceptor but tastes bad, and may have to be injected.
Another type of demodicosis is demodectic pododermatitis, or demodectic mange of the paws. Old English Sheepdogs and Shar-peis are particularly susceptible to this. Biopsy may be needed to find the mites and make the diagnosis.
Good nutrition, control of other parasites such
as worms and fleas, and keeping up with vaccinations are all important factors in prevention, although alternative veterinarians believe that vaccination actually lowers an animal's resistance to demodicosis. They recommend homeopathy, fasting, and various vitamins and minerals, along with applying fresh lemon juice to the affected area. All veterinarians agree that cortisone should never be used to treat demodectic mange.
I went and looked up what I could on Mange. I thought I'd share some of it here. Maybe there's some kind of different treatment you can try or something. The one articule did suggest that it's usually in younger dogs and can last up to a year or 14 months and is passed on from the mom to the pups. It can be that he has a weakened immune system. Let me go and look up some more. Here's what I found so far:
The most common type of mange is demodectic mange or demodicosis. Caused by a microscopic mite that lives in the skin called Demodex canis, it is not contagious. It is found mostly in young dogs, who acquire it from their mothers. The mites are transferred from mother to pup during the first few days of life. An older pup cannot pick up Demodex mites, and puppies raised by hand will not acquire them either. It is not transmitted to humans or spread among adult dogs. The mites produce a substance that can lower a dog's natural resistance to them, and in this way they multiply. Demodectic mange is more common in oily-skinned shorthairs and pubescent dogs. Predisposition to demodicosis seems to be hereditary.
Localized demodectic mange can last for up to a year. The first sign is a small, hairless patch near the eye, chin, or forelegs that doesn't itch much. For young dogs, there is a 90% chance it will clear up by itself by fourteen months of age, unless there is a family history of demodicosis, in which case it drops to 50%. For unknown reasons, in a small number of dogs it will continue to spread. An adult dog may also occasionally develop localized demodicosis. There is hair thinning around the eyelids, lips, corners of the mouth, and the front legs, presenting a moth-eaten appearance. In most dogs, after one to two months the hair begins to grow back, and in three months the skin is healed. Topical insecticide preparations can also be used, but often it is better to allow the condition to resolve on its own.
Generalized demodicosis is characterized by multiple hair loss patches on the head, legs, and trunk that coalesce to form large bald areas. Hair follicles are plugged with mites and debris, and the skin forms sores, crusts, scales, and bald areas, with draining sinus tracts. Lymph nodes may be enlarged. At this point, the dog becomes susceptible to other serious illnesses.
In 30% to 50% of dogs under the age of one year, recovery occurs without treatment. However, treatment is usually recommended to facilitate recovery. An older dog should not develop generalized demodicosis unless it has an underlying problem with its immune system, possibly even cancer.
Generalized demodicosis is diagnosed by skin scrapings. It can be treated with an insecticide ointment to the infected parts three times daily. Relapse is possible, but most dogs that relapse do so within six to twelve months of the end of treatment. Older dogs may never be cured, and treatment will have to be chronic.
Traditional treatment includes dips of Mitaban, a potent insecticide, every week or two, preceded by a hair clipping and benzoyl peroxide shampoo to clear up skin infections and open the hair follicles, where the mites live. Side effects include drowsiness, vomiting, diarrhea, and uncoordination. Mitaban should not be used on small dogs or very young puppies. When skin scrapings are negative twice in a row, the dip and bath regimen is stopped, and the dog is rechecked in one month.
Newer treatments include Interceptor, also used as a heartworm preventative, administered daily. However, this is an expensive alternative because it has to be continued for three months.
Ivermectin is a heartworm preventative that can be given daily to treat generalized demodectic mange. It is cheaper than Interceptor but tastes bad, and may have to be injected.
Another type of demodicosis is demodectic pododermatitis, or demodectic mange of the paws. Old English Sheepdogs and Shar-peis are particularly susceptible to this. Biopsy may be needed to find the mites and make the diagnosis.
Good nutrition, control of other parasites such
as worms and fleas, and keeping up with vaccinations are all important factors in prevention, although alternative veterinarians believe that vaccination actually lowers an animal's resistance to demodicosis. They recommend homeopathy, fasting, and various vitamins and minerals, along with applying fresh lemon juice to the affected area. All veterinarians agree that cortisone should never be used to treat demodectic mange.
This looked interesting. This is a guys response to someone asking about Mange, etc.
Dogs who get it and can't overcome it are susceptable we think because of an immune system deficiency. They lose hair where the mites are feeding. Common in puppies whose moms had it and passed the mites on.
The vet will tell you it is chronic and cannot be fixed if the dog is susceptible, but you can indeed prevent it by great nutrition and building the immune system. It also helps to use Revolution or other flea and heartworm medications, as dogs who are susceptable to mites also seem more friendly for fleas. And they react to those bites, too, possibly setting up a parasitic cascade.
The whole thing looks more like an allergic-type of reaction to the mite bites among susceptable dogs.
We had two who were mangy, and what I am telling you is what we learned as we rid them of the condition, while the vet all the while was telling us that only periodic dips would keep it away. The dips are hazardous to the liver, so I would not overdo them (The vet probably won't tell you that, either).
Dogs with the condition often have dry, flaky skin and dull hair. Use fish oil or feed sardines in the dog food, and it will bring luster and oil to the skin and hair, and act against mite infestation. You can use localized antibiotic creams like Neosporin to rub into the mite-bitten areas and reduce reactions. My wife used an herbal salve she makes with comfry and calendula in it, and it worked well. There are commercial herbal salves with those ingredients, if you want to try them.
Dogs who get it and can't overcome it are susceptable we think because of an immune system deficiency. They lose hair where the mites are feeding. Common in puppies whose moms had it and passed the mites on.
The vet will tell you it is chronic and cannot be fixed if the dog is susceptible, but you can indeed prevent it by great nutrition and building the immune system. It also helps to use Revolution or other flea and heartworm medications, as dogs who are susceptable to mites also seem more friendly for fleas. And they react to those bites, too, possibly setting up a parasitic cascade.
The whole thing looks more like an allergic-type of reaction to the mite bites among susceptable dogs.
We had two who were mangy, and what I am telling you is what we learned as we rid them of the condition, while the vet all the while was telling us that only periodic dips would keep it away. The dips are hazardous to the liver, so I would not overdo them (The vet probably won't tell you that, either).
Dogs with the condition often have dry, flaky skin and dull hair. Use fish oil or feed sardines in the dog food, and it will bring luster and oil to the skin and hair, and act against mite infestation. You can use localized antibiotic creams like Neosporin to rub into the mite-bitten areas and reduce reactions. My wife used an herbal salve she makes with comfry and calendula in it, and it worked well. There are commercial herbal salves with those ingredients, if you want to try them.
Here's some natural remedies you might be interested in trying:
Home Remedies for Mange
Foods
Feed your dog a high quality, all natural food. Select a raw food diet, a cooked diet, or an ultra premium dry food with lots of raw pulverized vegetables. Add leafy dark green vegetables such as broccoli, watercress, etc. to each meal.
Vitamins and Supplements
Adding dietary supplements is also important to help relieve your dog's itch and improve his skin conditions.
* Vitamin E (5-10 mg/lb daily)
* Vitamin C (10 mg/lb, 2-3 times a day)
* Fish oil (1/4 to 1/2 teaspoonful per 10 pounds, 1-2 times daily) Fish oil provides omega-3 fatty acids and can be very effective in easing an itch. Other sources of omega-3 fatty acids include flaxseed oil and pumpkin seed.
A very good natural product that I have found is Dr. Harvey's Health and Shine. It contains a good combination of borage oil, flaxseed oil, fish oil, and Vitamin E. Check it out here:
Dr. Harvey's Health and Shine for Dogs 90 ct.
You will be surprised at the fast improvement in your's dog coat condition.
Top
Topical Herbal Remedies for Canine Mange
Herbs are one of many home remedies for mange that are safe and effective.
Here are some herbal remedies for topical use:
Garlic
Garlic contains sulphur compounds which mites dislike. Diluted garlic oil can therefore be used topically to the affected areas. Since garlic is antibacterial as well, applying garlic oil to the affected areas will have the added benefit of minimizing bacterial infection. If your pet is sensitive to garlic, use licorice instead.
Neem and Lavender
Neem oil, together with lavender oil, can make an effective skin rinse against mange.
To make the skin rinse, you need:
* 1 part Lavender oil
* 1 part Neem oil
* 10 parts Almond oil
Apply to affected areas once or twice daily.
Yarrow
Yarrow is excellent in wound healing; it stops the bleeding from oozing wounds. Yarrow oil, salve, or ointment can be applied to the affected areas.
Other herbs
Other herbs that are effective against mange include yellow dock, echinacea, calendula, and aloe vera.
Top
Internal Herbal Remedies for Canine Mange
Internally, the following herbs are effective in boosting a dog's immune system and fighting bacterial infections.
Burdock root: Burdock cleanses the blood and helps eliminate toxins in the urine and sweat and is good for dry and scaly skin.
Dandelion: Dandelion aids the liver which is a main toxin-removal organ.
Echinacea: This herb enhances the immune system, making the dog more resistant to infectious diseases such as canine mange.
Licorice root: Licorice helps the adrenal glands (which produce natural cortisone).
Nettle: This herb stimulates blood circulation.
Sarsaparilla: This herb has antibacterial actions for skin conditions and is good for chronic skin infections.
Yellow Dock: Yellow dock helps eliminate toxins; it is good for the liver.
Top
Homeopathic Remedies for Canine Mange
Homeopathic treatment is also effective in treating canine mange. If you want to use homeopathic remedies to treat your dog mange, ask a holistic vet about the following commonly used remedies:
* Sulphur
* Psorinum
* Silicea
Home Remedies for Mange
Foods
Feed your dog a high quality, all natural food. Select a raw food diet, a cooked diet, or an ultra premium dry food with lots of raw pulverized vegetables. Add leafy dark green vegetables such as broccoli, watercress, etc. to each meal.
Vitamins and Supplements
Adding dietary supplements is also important to help relieve your dog's itch and improve his skin conditions.
* Vitamin E (5-10 mg/lb daily)
* Vitamin C (10 mg/lb, 2-3 times a day)
* Fish oil (1/4 to 1/2 teaspoonful per 10 pounds, 1-2 times daily) Fish oil provides omega-3 fatty acids and can be very effective in easing an itch. Other sources of omega-3 fatty acids include flaxseed oil and pumpkin seed.
A very good natural product that I have found is Dr. Harvey's Health and Shine. It contains a good combination of borage oil, flaxseed oil, fish oil, and Vitamin E. Check it out here:
Dr. Harvey's Health and Shine for Dogs 90 ct.
You will be surprised at the fast improvement in your's dog coat condition.
Top
Topical Herbal Remedies for Canine Mange
Herbs are one of many home remedies for mange that are safe and effective.
Here are some herbal remedies for topical use:
Garlic
Garlic contains sulphur compounds which mites dislike. Diluted garlic oil can therefore be used topically to the affected areas. Since garlic is antibacterial as well, applying garlic oil to the affected areas will have the added benefit of minimizing bacterial infection. If your pet is sensitive to garlic, use licorice instead.
Neem and Lavender
Neem oil, together with lavender oil, can make an effective skin rinse against mange.
To make the skin rinse, you need:
* 1 part Lavender oil
* 1 part Neem oil
* 10 parts Almond oil
Apply to affected areas once or twice daily.
Yarrow
Yarrow is excellent in wound healing; it stops the bleeding from oozing wounds. Yarrow oil, salve, or ointment can be applied to the affected areas.
Other herbs
Other herbs that are effective against mange include yellow dock, echinacea, calendula, and aloe vera.
Top
Internal Herbal Remedies for Canine Mange
Internally, the following herbs are effective in boosting a dog's immune system and fighting bacterial infections.
Burdock root: Burdock cleanses the blood and helps eliminate toxins in the urine and sweat and is good for dry and scaly skin.
Dandelion: Dandelion aids the liver which is a main toxin-removal organ.
Echinacea: This herb enhances the immune system, making the dog more resistant to infectious diseases such as canine mange.
Licorice root: Licorice helps the adrenal glands (which produce natural cortisone).
Nettle: This herb stimulates blood circulation.
Sarsaparilla: This herb has antibacterial actions for skin conditions and is good for chronic skin infections.
Yellow Dock: Yellow dock helps eliminate toxins; it is good for the liver.
Top
Homeopathic Remedies for Canine Mange
Homeopathic treatment is also effective in treating canine mange. If you want to use homeopathic remedies to treat your dog mange, ask a holistic vet about the following commonly used remedies:
* Sulphur
* Psorinum
* Silicea
Thank you so much for all this info, April. I so much appreciate it. I feel at such a loss with this whole issue, because it's definitely not a typical demodex, I think. When he breaks out, it happens within hours. It's awful what he looks like and what he goes through. I guess I'd suspect he has this description:
Generalized demodicosis is characterized by multiple hair loss patches on the head, legs, and trunk that coalesce to form large bald areas. Hair follicles are plugged with mites and debris, and the skin forms sores, crusts, scales, and bald areas, with draining sinus tracts.
Bryce loses hair all over his body, never in just a localized area. It usually starts on his muzzle, neck, legs, and belly, but withing a day or two, he's chewed raw spots and scratched himself up all over his body--I don't even know how he reaches some of those areas. His skin, if not bloody and inflamed, is black, crusty and scaly, and his nose gets runny and he shakes his head all the time like his ears hurt. The smell he gets is unbearable--it's a real yeasty smell, or like a grimey oil; I'm not sure how to describe the smell.
I've bathed him in Sulfodene, I have him premium dry dog food, I've used creams and ointments (Biocane, Hydrocortisone, and Neosporin), I've cleansed his wounds with peroxide and alcohol, I've sprayed him with BitterYuck to keep him from chewing himself up--nothing has worked!
I'll definitely try some of these herbal treatments and dietary supplements; they certainly can't hurt. I'd change his diet to cooked meals and raw veggies, but wouldn't it figure (and it's hard to believe) that Bryce is a picky eater and just plain weird because he doesn't really like to eat anything but his dry dog food. If I offer him a plate to lick clean or give him a treat from the table he doesn't like it. He takes it in his mouth and then drops it on the floor and looks at it like, "Eeew, what is this?!" then looks back up at me like, "I can't believe you're trying to feed this to me. What's wrong with you?"
This all started after his first treatment of mange last summer. When I first brought him home, he'd eat anything. I had a hard time keeping him from sneaking food off my countertops when I had my back turned. He's nothing like that anymore. It's like he wants nothing to do with food unless it's his dog food. He loves that stuff. He won't eat dog biscuits or rawhide chews or anything. It's weird. I don't know what happened. But I haven't been too concerned because he still eats his dog food and he maintains a nice, healthy weight and figure.
Generalized demodicosis is characterized by multiple hair loss patches on the head, legs, and trunk that coalesce to form large bald areas. Hair follicles are plugged with mites and debris, and the skin forms sores, crusts, scales, and bald areas, with draining sinus tracts.
Bryce loses hair all over his body, never in just a localized area. It usually starts on his muzzle, neck, legs, and belly, but withing a day or two, he's chewed raw spots and scratched himself up all over his body--I don't even know how he reaches some of those areas. His skin, if not bloody and inflamed, is black, crusty and scaly, and his nose gets runny and he shakes his head all the time like his ears hurt. The smell he gets is unbearable--it's a real yeasty smell, or like a grimey oil; I'm not sure how to describe the smell.
I've bathed him in Sulfodene, I have him premium dry dog food, I've used creams and ointments (Biocane, Hydrocortisone, and Neosporin), I've cleansed his wounds with peroxide and alcohol, I've sprayed him with BitterYuck to keep him from chewing himself up--nothing has worked!
I'll definitely try some of these herbal treatments and dietary supplements; they certainly can't hurt. I'd change his diet to cooked meals and raw veggies, but wouldn't it figure (and it's hard to believe) that Bryce is a picky eater and just plain weird because he doesn't really like to eat anything but his dry dog food. If I offer him a plate to lick clean or give him a treat from the table he doesn't like it. He takes it in his mouth and then drops it on the floor and looks at it like, "Eeew, what is this?!" then looks back up at me like, "I can't believe you're trying to feed this to me. What's wrong with you?"
This all started after his first treatment of mange last summer. When I first brought him home, he'd eat anything. I had a hard time keeping him from sneaking food off my countertops when I had my back turned. He's nothing like that anymore. It's like he wants nothing to do with food unless it's his dog food. He loves that stuff. He won't eat dog biscuits or rawhide chews or anything. It's weird. I don't know what happened. But I haven't been too concerned because he still eats his dog food and he maintains a nice, healthy weight and figure.
Unforunately I don't have any helpful information to pass along b/c I've never dealt with mange before, but after reading your journal entry I felt compelled to write and tell you that it sounds like you love this dog to pieces and in my eyes, it seems like you are doing everything humanly possible to keep this dog happy and healthy. In short, I don't think you're doing anything wrong... sometimes it's just dumb luck and (perhaps) a poor immune system in your dog. I certainly couldn't give you any advice on whether to bring him back to the shelter or keep him (I'd hate to be in that situation), but I do think that a LOT of other people in this situation might not have even dealt with this expensive problem as long as you have. I'm sorry you're stuck in this nasty cycle with Bryce (poor thing)... hopefully everything will mend itself soon.
I am not sure if this will help, but it has helped me immensely with my pet. http://www.theonlinevet.com/. is a website, where this dr has written a book and put it online about everything from diet, skincare, and how to cure it yourself, instead of using the vet. I hope that is not deleted.
Thank you both. I will definitely check that site--I need all the help I can get without breaking my budget. And I really don't want to have to give up Bryce. I love that dingbat doggie way too much.
There are 2 types of mange, demodec & sarcoptic. One is immune related and the other is the contagious type (look up sarcoptic as I haven't researched tyhis in a while) iF THE VET IS SELLING YOU THE IVERMECTON (stupid caps) he is more than likely making a fortune off you. You can buy a small bottle of injectable at the local farm & garden (I think it is the 10% cattle drench) Looke it up tyo make sure. You will need a syringe which you can buy there to get it out of the bottle. It is about 50.00 for a small bottle and lasts a long tome.
What kind of food are you feeding?
Denise
What kind of food are you feeding?
Denise
GSDgirl, yes...I have been getting the Ivomec at the local co-op/feed and seed. A small bottle of cattle drench for about $50. Unfortunately, my dog went through the whole thing because of his high dose needed in less than 8 months. I am a bit worried if it's that good for him to be on it so long on such a high dose.
He does have demodectic mange and not sarcoptic. The vet did a skin scraping and verified that, and also, my other dog I have has been around Bryce each day and she does not have demodex (she got it once right after I brought Bryce home because he also came down with kennel cough, which he gave to her, then she got demodex because her immune system was compromised from the bordatella. The good thing though, is that she recovered from the bordatella and the demodex in less than a month and has been fine ever since).
Anyway, Bryce is a golden retriever mix, probably with boder collie. Not sure, though. He is definitely mostly golden retriever (color-wise) but his ear shape and body figure are that of a border collie. He weighs 40 lbs.
He has not seemed to have any adverse reactions to the Ivomec, but I'm really concerned to keep him on it much more because Ivomec isn't a good option to use on collie breeds. They are known to sometimes have fatal adverse reactions to Ivomec.
I feed him a generic brand of Eukanuba dry dog food; there are no meat by-products in it and it's made with brown rice instead of corn filler. It's cheaper than Eukanuba and he and my other dog, Blackie, do really well on it. I am not sure if I should change his dog food, because I thought I was feeding him some decent stuff. But I'm open to any suggestions and alternatives if I can work it into my budget. I want to do everything possible that's best for Bryce.
He does have demodectic mange and not sarcoptic. The vet did a skin scraping and verified that, and also, my other dog I have has been around Bryce each day and she does not have demodex (she got it once right after I brought Bryce home because he also came down with kennel cough, which he gave to her, then she got demodex because her immune system was compromised from the bordatella. The good thing though, is that she recovered from the bordatella and the demodex in less than a month and has been fine ever since).
Anyway, Bryce is a golden retriever mix, probably with boder collie. Not sure, though. He is definitely mostly golden retriever (color-wise) but his ear shape and body figure are that of a border collie. He weighs 40 lbs.
He has not seemed to have any adverse reactions to the Ivomec, but I'm really concerned to keep him on it much more because Ivomec isn't a good option to use on collie breeds. They are known to sometimes have fatal adverse reactions to Ivomec.
I feed him a generic brand of Eukanuba dry dog food; there are no meat by-products in it and it's made with brown rice instead of corn filler. It's cheaper than Eukanuba and he and my other dog, Blackie, do really well on it. I am not sure if I should change his dog food, because I thought I was feeding him some decent stuff. But I'm open to any suggestions and alternatives if I can work it into my budget. I want to do everything possible that's best for Bryce.
I am taking Bryce to the vet this evening when I get off work; I just called the clinic and asked if the specific vet was working today that saw him last time, because I don't want anyone else there to touch him after what that last vet there put him through. You can read about that here: http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/56285?personal_page_id=495239.
I called and asked if the vet I want for him is there, and at first the receptionist thought that vet wasn't working today and asked if I'd like to see the vet who saw him all the other times. NO WAY! That vet will never so much as lay eyes on my Bryce again! I said, "No, I'd prefer to have him see Dr. so-and-so instead. Would you let me know when she'll be working?"
Turns out the receptionist had mixed up the vets' schedules, and the vet I want to see is there today after all! YAY! So I'll be taking Bryce in this evening.
Please pray we can figure something out that will enable me to keep my dog and that isn't painfully expensive. Thank you all so much.
I called and asked if the vet I want for him is there, and at first the receptionist thought that vet wasn't working today and asked if I'd like to see the vet who saw him all the other times. NO WAY! That vet will never so much as lay eyes on my Bryce again! I said, "No, I'd prefer to have him see Dr. so-and-so instead. Would you let me know when she'll be working?"
Turns out the receptionist had mixed up the vets' schedules, and the vet I want to see is there today after all! YAY! So I'll be taking Bryce in this evening.
Please pray we can figure something out that will enable me to keep my dog and that isn't painfully expensive. Thank you all so much.
Read my note,the stuff I found out should work and was highly recommended.I know how expensive vet visits are.But,if it makes you feel better take your dog in.I hope your Mom's doing better! I know how hard it is to have a parent with cancer,and a child to try to give enough attention too,and also animals to care for,not as many critters as you have.But,I'm praying for all of you! Big Hug to you and yours! Love,Jen
*Heavy sigh*
I spent $300 last night, and I'm not even done spending yet. I need to buy another bottle of Ivomec at the co-op, which will cost about $50.
But--I don't have much room to gripe about what I spent last night, because about $200 of the visit went to my dog's yearly health maintenance anyway, so it was going to be spent one way or the other. I had to buy two sets of Frontline because, apparently, Bryce has put on weight since January (about 5 lbs), which is a really good thing since he was in such bad condition in Jan. and had lost his appetite due to the pain of his skin. The crummy side of that, however, means that he and Blackie can't have the same dose of Frontline based on their weights anymore, so I had to buy two 6-pack boxes which were like, $85 and $95 each And I had to get Blackie's rabies shot updated. But...like I said, that's basic health maintenance that I should expect to pay anyway; it's just a real blow when you get hit with more costs on top of it.
He got another bottle of cepha-something antibiotics, which was $54. His vet wants to see him back in 6 weeks to do a skin scraping, and she upped his dose of Ivomec to 0.9 cc because he's gained weight. I was a bit disappointed that they still want to pursue the same treatment plan as last time. I was hoping something might get changed up, but the vet said we should pursue an alternative treatment if this current try fails again.
Well, I've decided I'm going to take my own course of action on top of this and look into changing his food and adding dietary supplements/herbal remedies that can help boost his immune system. I've gotten some great advice from everyone here with routes I can take, and I've been in contact with my cousin who does a lot of work with rescue shelters and vet techs, and she's asked around for me about my concerns and emailed me some really wonderful info.
I've gotten a list of high-quality dog foods and holistic remedies, most have to be ordered online; they are expensive but, if his dietary changes work, then the maintenance of his diet is certainly cheaper than spending $100+ every single month on vet costs, especially considering that it's usually on the "+" side of $100 a month.
I'm giving this my last and most worthy effort for Bryce. I want to be able to keep him so badly; I love him so much. I'm hoping after 3-4 months, he shows the improvement I need to see. Considering that his mange flare-ups happen as badly as they do about every 2-3 months, I figure within 3-4 months from now I can find out whether or not I can stop holding my breath and not have to give him up because I can't afford the medical care he could need the rest of his life.
I spent $300 last night, and I'm not even done spending yet. I need to buy another bottle of Ivomec at the co-op, which will cost about $50.
But--I don't have much room to gripe about what I spent last night, because about $200 of the visit went to my dog's yearly health maintenance anyway, so it was going to be spent one way or the other. I had to buy two sets of Frontline because, apparently, Bryce has put on weight since January (about 5 lbs), which is a really good thing since he was in such bad condition in Jan. and had lost his appetite due to the pain of his skin. The crummy side of that, however, means that he and Blackie can't have the same dose of Frontline based on their weights anymore, so I had to buy two 6-pack boxes which were like, $85 and $95 each And I had to get Blackie's rabies shot updated. But...like I said, that's basic health maintenance that I should expect to pay anyway; it's just a real blow when you get hit with more costs on top of it.
He got another bottle of cepha-something antibiotics, which was $54. His vet wants to see him back in 6 weeks to do a skin scraping, and she upped his dose of Ivomec to 0.9 cc because he's gained weight. I was a bit disappointed that they still want to pursue the same treatment plan as last time. I was hoping something might get changed up, but the vet said we should pursue an alternative treatment if this current try fails again.
Well, I've decided I'm going to take my own course of action on top of this and look into changing his food and adding dietary supplements/herbal remedies that can help boost his immune system. I've gotten some great advice from everyone here with routes I can take, and I've been in contact with my cousin who does a lot of work with rescue shelters and vet techs, and she's asked around for me about my concerns and emailed me some really wonderful info.
I've gotten a list of high-quality dog foods and holistic remedies, most have to be ordered online; they are expensive but, if his dietary changes work, then the maintenance of his diet is certainly cheaper than spending $100+ every single month on vet costs, especially considering that it's usually on the "+" side of $100 a month.
I'm giving this my last and most worthy effort for Bryce. I want to be able to keep him so badly; I love him so much. I'm hoping after 3-4 months, he shows the improvement I need to see. Considering that his mange flare-ups happen as badly as they do about every 2-3 months, I figure within 3-4 months from now I can find out whether or not I can stop holding my breath and not have to give him up because I can't afford the medical care he could need the rest of his life.
I am so sorry that you are going through all of this. My prayers are with you.
Thank you, Melissa. It's been a rough road, that's for sure--I never expected any of this when I adopted him. Now I feel horrible because, it's times like this that make me wish I'd never adopted him. I hate thinking that. I love this dog, and my son adores him and Bryce is a perfect fit into our family.
He came to us at a very sad and much needed time a few weeks after my last dog, Eric (a 2 year old border collie), died of degenerative brain damage. I wanted to adopt another dog who could bring that "happy, puppy-like" personality back into our lives, and be a companion for Blackie because she was grieving for Eric's loss, too (she slept on his pillow and moped around for two weeks).
I went to the shelter intending to meet another dog, found out that dog had been adopted, but was invited to come look at the others there. Bryce had only been surrendered to the rescue lady the night before. When we got there, I just knew he was my dog. He was "talking" at Trevor and me from the kennel across the yard, going nuts like he missed us and hadn't seen us in forever; like he belonged to us. I was told he was going to be treated for mange because the rescue lady was certain he had it, but that it was an easy cure. She took him to the vet and had him diagnosed with a skin scraping and started his treatment. I was going to adopt him after she treated him for 4-5 weeks.
Well then, the next day he somehow esscaped from the kennels and disappeared for three days. We still don't know how he got out, because he's not a climber or a digger; there were no holes under the fence and none of her other dogs were missing. Both of us were stressed out, and she felt so badly for me because she had seen the instant bond that formed between him and Trev and me. I had even bought him a collar and ID tag the day after I met him. I thought I'd never see him again and felt overwhelmed with grief, especially because Eric's loss was still fresh for me, too.
Thankfully, Bryce showed back up at her place, hungry, three days later. It was then that she told me she thought it would be in Bryce's best interests to come home with me as soon as possible, because it was clear he needed to have his family--she didn't want to risk losing him again, not knowing how he escaped the first time, and that she trusted I would follow through with his demodex treatment.
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to pick him up until two days later (it was over 4th of July weekend), so he was kenneled in her garage for two days. She had another dog surrendered to her that she put in another kennel in the garage, but didn't know that dog had kennel cough, as it didn't show symptoms until the day I picked up Bryce.
I brought Bryce home with kennel cough, not knowing it. The next day, I took him to my mom's farm to show him off, and he gave kennel cough to three of her four dogs, plus Blackie. Then Blackie got demodex as a result of the kennel cough (she recovered quickly, though). So then I had to pay for the Ivomec, plus a pharmacy-worth of antibiotics for five dogs with kennel cough. The rescue lady helped me pay for half the antibiotics, but still--in the first *three weeks* I had Bryce, I spent about $300 between adoption fees, vet fees, and medication fees.
Then a month later, I had to treat both Bryce and Blackie for stomach ulcers because one of them was vomiting blood but I didn't know who, so I treated both of them.
Then the mange breakouts...over and over and over again. Going from knowing it was mange, to not being so sure because another vet was "certain" he had skin allergies and having me spend about $400 in three months, to going back to being certain it was mange again. And we're still fighting this battle! It's been less than a year and I'm burnt out!
I feel like such a failure. I feel like I've gone wrong somewhere along the road.
I don't want to have to give him up because of this, but the money is just not there to keep continuing this battle. I'm devastated wondering if I have to give him up that no one else will want him. Not to mention, he'd be devastated and not understand; he'd think we'd abandoned him and didn't love him.
If I take him back to the shelter, his adoption profile will be displayed with "special needs." Those dogs don't stand much of a chance getting adopted as compared to the healthy dogs and the puppies. Plus, mange has that stigma of the dog being diseased and dirty--like they're contageous (demodex is not, but many people are not that educated about it; all they go on is first glance appearance) even to people and they don't want "that dog" around their other dogs if they have any, or they don't want "that dog" on their carpet or their furniture because they look "gross" and smell weird. How many people are willing to adopt a dog knowing it has a skin problem that includes mites and self-destructive scratching being the side effect?
I'm glad I didn't know this when I adopted him, but I also wish I had. I don't regret that I chose him (or that he chose us--not sure which way it went), but I regret that now I have to face this uncertainty of letting him go, and it's tearing me apart. I didn't want to have to face the heartbreak of a loss like this again. I hope we can stay together. I will feel like I failed him if I can't keep him, if I can't be his "forever home" that I promised him.
He came to us at a very sad and much needed time a few weeks after my last dog, Eric (a 2 year old border collie), died of degenerative brain damage. I wanted to adopt another dog who could bring that "happy, puppy-like" personality back into our lives, and be a companion for Blackie because she was grieving for Eric's loss, too (she slept on his pillow and moped around for two weeks).
I went to the shelter intending to meet another dog, found out that dog had been adopted, but was invited to come look at the others there. Bryce had only been surrendered to the rescue lady the night before. When we got there, I just knew he was my dog. He was "talking" at Trevor and me from the kennel across the yard, going nuts like he missed us and hadn't seen us in forever; like he belonged to us. I was told he was going to be treated for mange because the rescue lady was certain he had it, but that it was an easy cure. She took him to the vet and had him diagnosed with a skin scraping and started his treatment. I was going to adopt him after she treated him for 4-5 weeks.
Well then, the next day he somehow esscaped from the kennels and disappeared for three days. We still don't know how he got out, because he's not a climber or a digger; there were no holes under the fence and none of her other dogs were missing. Both of us were stressed out, and she felt so badly for me because she had seen the instant bond that formed between him and Trev and me. I had even bought him a collar and ID tag the day after I met him. I thought I'd never see him again and felt overwhelmed with grief, especially because Eric's loss was still fresh for me, too.
Thankfully, Bryce showed back up at her place, hungry, three days later. It was then that she told me she thought it would be in Bryce's best interests to come home with me as soon as possible, because it was clear he needed to have his family--she didn't want to risk losing him again, not knowing how he escaped the first time, and that she trusted I would follow through with his demodex treatment.
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to pick him up until two days later (it was over 4th of July weekend), so he was kenneled in her garage for two days. She had another dog surrendered to her that she put in another kennel in the garage, but didn't know that dog had kennel cough, as it didn't show symptoms until the day I picked up Bryce.
I brought Bryce home with kennel cough, not knowing it. The next day, I took him to my mom's farm to show him off, and he gave kennel cough to three of her four dogs, plus Blackie. Then Blackie got demodex as a result of the kennel cough (she recovered quickly, though). So then I had to pay for the Ivomec, plus a pharmacy-worth of antibiotics for five dogs with kennel cough. The rescue lady helped me pay for half the antibiotics, but still--in the first *three weeks* I had Bryce, I spent about $300 between adoption fees, vet fees, and medication fees.
Then a month later, I had to treat both Bryce and Blackie for stomach ulcers because one of them was vomiting blood but I didn't know who, so I treated both of them.
Then the mange breakouts...over and over and over again. Going from knowing it was mange, to not being so sure because another vet was "certain" he had skin allergies and having me spend about $400 in three months, to going back to being certain it was mange again. And we're still fighting this battle! It's been less than a year and I'm burnt out!
I feel like such a failure. I feel like I've gone wrong somewhere along the road.
I don't want to have to give him up because of this, but the money is just not there to keep continuing this battle. I'm devastated wondering if I have to give him up that no one else will want him. Not to mention, he'd be devastated and not understand; he'd think we'd abandoned him and didn't love him.
If I take him back to the shelter, his adoption profile will be displayed with "special needs." Those dogs don't stand much of a chance getting adopted as compared to the healthy dogs and the puppies. Plus, mange has that stigma of the dog being diseased and dirty--like they're contageous (demodex is not, but many people are not that educated about it; all they go on is first glance appearance) even to people and they don't want "that dog" around their other dogs if they have any, or they don't want "that dog" on their carpet or their furniture because they look "gross" and smell weird. How many people are willing to adopt a dog knowing it has a skin problem that includes mites and self-destructive scratching being the side effect?
I'm glad I didn't know this when I adopted him, but I also wish I had. I don't regret that I chose him (or that he chose us--not sure which way it went), but I regret that now I have to face this uncertainty of letting him go, and it's tearing me apart. I didn't want to have to face the heartbreak of a loss like this again. I hope we can stay together. I will feel like I failed him if I can't keep him, if I can't be his "forever home" that I promised him.
AJ- Our smaller dog he's a Golden retriever/Sharpei mix had mange when we got him from the shelter. I treated him with Ivermectin and antibiotics and it all went away, I was always worried of the toxicity of the ivermecting (which I think is the same thing as Ivomec) and well he's doing fine, my friend she's a vet and says that they give Ivomec to even lizzards so its fairly safe. However I think that good food is essential. We have always fed our dogs Bil-Jac and its made of mostly all meat, we've used both the frozen food (it looks good enough for me to eat, its like ground meat chunks, cooked and frozen) and we mix it in with the dry stuff. Also for their skin issues, because our dogs shed a lot, we give them Omega 3 (fish oil) capsules and they love it. Bil-Jac is a liiiitle bit more expensive than Eukanuba, but not as expensive as the all organic, all meat stuff and its very high quality food. I wouldn't give our dogs anything from the supermarket.
Good luck with your dog, they are part of the family and its sooo hard to see them suffer.
Good luck with your dog, they are part of the family and its sooo hard to see them suffer.
Thanks, Mumita--I will keep Bil-Jac in mind due to my budget. I just want him to have the best so he can get well.
I didn't worry so much about the Ivermectin and antibiotics at first, but he hasn't had the basic treatment plan. Bryce has been done this treatment plan for months now. It hasn't been the routine 30-45 day treatment and then it was gone. He's been on and off this treatment plan for nearly a year now. I just wonder how good this really can be for him; obvioulsly, something isn't working because he still has the problem.
This is all just so frustrating.
I didn't worry so much about the Ivermectin and antibiotics at first, but he hasn't had the basic treatment plan. Bryce has been done this treatment plan for months now. It hasn't been the routine 30-45 day treatment and then it was gone. He's been on and off this treatment plan for nearly a year now. I just wonder how good this really can be for him; obvioulsly, something isn't working because he still has the problem.
This is all just so frustrating.
I hope this doesn't get deleted (I'm not sure if Medhelp deletes links when they're in someone's journal). In terms of saving a couple dollars here and there, you can save quite a bit of money if you buy your dog's Frontline meds online. I've been using drsfostersmith.com for over 3 years now to purchase my dogs flea/tick meds and also his heartworm pills. I found out that they're much cheaper than buying from your vet and you can almost always find a $5.00 off coupon online (and they always offer free shipping for Frontline). I'm assuming that Blackie is around 40 lbs and you just found out that Bryce is now at 45 lbs... is that right? On the above mentioned website, the "Frontline Plus" for dogs 23-44 lbs is $77.99 and for dogs 45-88 lbs is $81.99. You won't be charged anything for shipping and the most recent code I found just now (3078/5812) will get you $5.00 off your entire order. So you're looking at saving about $25-30 (assuming you buy a 6-pk for each dog). Anyway... it's not a ton of money compared to what you end up spending on them in the end, but every little bit helps, right?
Sheesh, I didn't even think to buy the Frontline online. Duh!
Thank you for telling me that, Wendy80--you're right, every dollar counts on my budget. If I could save $20-30 on flea/tick prevention, that would be a huge deal for me!
And yes, Blackie is around 35 lbs, and Bryce just hit the 50 lb mark. Every time he's been in for check-ups before, he's been 40-43 lbs. So for the last year, I've been able to use the same prescription.
I'm definitely getting this stuff online from now on. Thanks again!
Thank you for telling me that, Wendy80--you're right, every dollar counts on my budget. If I could save $20-30 on flea/tick prevention, that would be a huge deal for me!
And yes, Blackie is around 35 lbs, and Bryce just hit the 50 lb mark. Every time he's been in for check-ups before, he's been 40-43 lbs. So for the last year, I've been able to use the same prescription.
I'm definitely getting this stuff online from now on. Thanks again!
Glad to help!
Depending on the receptionists at your vet's office, they might get a little huffy when you tell them you're buying the meds online... (ours did... "isn't it easier to buy it here instead of online?"), but it's not them dishing out the big bucks, so they have no say in the matter! =) Good luck with Bryce.
Depending on the receptionists at your vet's office, they might get a little huffy when you tell them you're buying the meds online... (ours did... "isn't it easier to buy it here instead of online?"), but it's not them dishing out the big bucks, so they have no say in the matter! =) Good luck with Bryce.
Look into Ted's peroxide, borax and water solution. It seems to work better then anything. He has a site. Google it.
Bet of luck. :)
Bet of luck. :)
This info should save your dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
www.earthclinic.com/Pets/dog_mange_cure.html
http://www.earthclinic.com/Pets/dog_mange_cure.html
http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/borax4.html#RF
http://artlifenewsblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/reviews-of-home-remedies-for-mange-if.html
www.earthclinic.com/Pets/dog_mange_cure.html
http://www.earthclinic.com/Pets/dog_mange_cure.html
http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/borax4.html#RF
http://artlifenewsblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/reviews-of-home-remedies-for-mange-if.html
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