Socialized medicine

I think any healthcare is better than no healthcare and if you want to talk about socialism. We have that to a degree now. SSI, Medicare, Welfare, Wic, etc just happen to be social programs but if you are not dirt poor you fall thru the cracks. We need to seal the cracks.  Right now even with the insurance companies, your doctor is not dictating your care. The insurance co is. Say you need a knee replacement. The insurance will not pay for a knee replacement until the doctor makes you do this and that and then if it does not work, you get a knee replacement. How much money was wasted by then? And the hmo"S oh please do not even get me started. You pay all those hi premiums to get treated like that too.

Thanks teko. I have been to a specialist, and he spent 5 minutes with me, and very hateful, then decided he could not help me, of course i just had soc sec he charged 338. also soc sec, have guide lines on how many days you may stay in hosp for each thing   jo

The problem is the doctor will not get paid and therefore they become bitter and will refuse patients.  I don't know how I feel, I just know that I owe a fortune in hospital bills from the birth of my son and from having my gall bladder surgery a few months ago.  I have insurance and still owe a lot.  

Mami, sorry that you have had all of these problems, i feel for you and i have been there, there is no help for a person at certain ages when they are not working, or make a small amount  luck  jo

Jo, I actually have talked with doctors who think it would not be a bad idea because they get paid according to what the insurance co will pay anyway. The difference is if you have good insurance, they will run every test you can think of, send you to different doctors and milk the insurance for everything they can get just because they can.  If you have no insurance, they cut to the chase or give you a script and send you home. The ones that will be upset are the big insurance companies that take everyones big bucks just to tell them they cannot have care except what the insurance companies tell them they can. We need to get the big giant corporations out of it and get back to caring about people instead of money. The doctors are limited in what they can do for us and how they can do it. Much money wasted this way and the insurance companies just keep getting richer. Same with the drug companies. So to me, what is the difference whether it be government run, or insurance run except that all will get care and not just some.

Miami, then if you cannot pay those medical bills your stuck with even after the insurance pays, then they ruin your credit and make sure you never have anything. And God forbid someone gets sick again before you get those paid for! With what we pay in premiums, there should be no bills for us to pay.

Some of you already know that I'm a socialist and live in Canada.  Some folks think we have socialized health care or universal health care and in the past, we did.  Today, however, those with money (and I don't mean middle class) can pay  for the best medical care possible while the rest of us just have to take what we get.  A lot of our drs are going to the USA because there is more money there.  I can't believe how fast the hospitals are in getting us out because they need the beds.  The quality of care, I think, is good but when I had a heart attack, I was only in for three days.  Socialized or universal health care requires a lot of financial commitment on the part of the government (at all levels) and on private donations.  It's really sad when a person dies from something he/she would not have died from, had adequate medical care been available.  The patients are actually lined up in the halls waiting to see a dr - not just somebody who walked in but some who have come by ambulance.

The comments about insurance were interesting.  I'd never thought of that before.

I am also a Canadian.  In any country with universal healthcare there are waiting times.  When something is free people do take advantage of it.  But in countries without universal healthcare the waiting times are less but that is because many who need the care cannot afford it so less waiting for those who can afford.  Universal healthcare is not perfect but I do believe it is a much better system that what the US has just now.  It breaks my heart hearing of people who don't have insurance or those who do but are limited to doctors who don't care.  

I have received such a huge value from the Canadian healthcare system - far more than the average person.  It has saved my life several times over and did not cost me a penny except for my personal income taxes.  Yes, they are a bit higher than what I'd pay if I was in the US but oh so worth it.  

I have learned how to navigate the healthcare system.  Most doctors do care.  They will definitely try the easiest treatment first and sometimes the wait times for a test are too long.  However, if you use your communication skills and stress honestly to your doctor an increase in pain or concern they can move things up and make it happen for you.  I've always gotten what I need.

We do have a problem where too many of our fine doctors have moved to the US.  My wish for a better healthcare system in the US is partly selfish.  I do want to see my friends and family who are American get the care they deserve, but I also hope that with an equilibrium happening between the countries that we will get our doctors back and increase the availability of care.

I'm not interested in political arguments.  I think we can all agree that the good people of America deserve better.

TrudieC - I agree with most of what you say.  Don't know what province you live in but in 1995 the Ontario premier caused such chaos with his cutbacks that hospitals really suffered and I believe an unofficial "two tiered" health system was the result.  However, when I had a heart attack, I realized that the people who are part of the health care system are incredible.  It isn't the people, it's the system.  Despite my criticism of it, I wouldn't trade it in for anything.  We do have to learn to keep pushing for the treatment we need but it can be done.  Also, the paramedics who took me to the hospital - I believe they saved me and how could I grudge paying for ambulance services?

Now if there were only more family drs.  It's so difficult trying to find one.

I listened to the president talking about the healthcare system yesterday on television. He says it people are satisfied with what they have, they can keep it. He does want to change some of the things about it tho, such as the pre-existing clause, he wants rid of that. His thinking is on a one pay system, put in place, where people would still be able to choose their own doctors, and the doctors would run the healthcare but the bill be paid by the government. Something on the order of how Medicare and Medicaid are now, only on a bigger scale to fill in the gaps for people who cannot get private health insurance, or it is unaffordable etc. He also said it will take 4-5 years to actually implement and put this plan in place, however things like pre-existing laws can be changed immediately.  Sounds like a plan to me.

The fear of this happening,would be  from the private insurance companies having competition and losing people to the new option put in place. And all the repeated testing going on by individual doctors, just because they can.  I personally think, that that fact alone would bring down prices. Competition is always a good thing for doing that. Now only if we had another cable company to choose from where I live! lol

all. I live very near the Ambassodor bridge and its true many do come from Canada every day to work in the Detroit hospitals,

Wolfie, I live in Ontario too.  Cherie, my sister lives in Windsor and is a nurse in Detroit.  The hardest is the doctors who move after graduation as they can make more money in the US.

All,
It is very sad, when we make Doctors rich and get so little out of healthcare over here. Rich doctors and people dying on the floor of the ER is not, or should not be what America is all about. I think we can all agree, something needs to happen, and soon!

about the guy coming to ER w heart symptoms,,,to the very best of my knowledge, all are taken care of in er and billing is worried about afterwards, have a hard time believing that story , not saying your not telling the truth I think someone misinformed you..hospitals treat the homeless, and impoverished every day,,,now clincs ( except free) and drs offices are a different story.....I have a few really good friends with socialised med, and like everything in life its got its good and bad points. I like "now' when I am ill or need surgery I dont want to wait.

Cherie
this story was true it was 30 years ago, and then they did not have clinics like they do now. it was in all of the papers, I do not know what the law is now but the lady that comes in and helps my husband with his bath, just works part time no health insurance, she said the dr seen her one time, and she could not pay so they told her they couild not dr her again, look at the newspapers, I am one of the lower income people and i do see it all, even children when mine were small which was a long time ago had no health care there were no free clinics for the children, you either made it or you did notI think the only ones that get free health care and checks are the unwed mothers, adn i think they should have been on birthcontrol of somekind as it is free, so are codoms . Most of the dr work for some kind of clinic like warren or some others, and they do not make the rules. Gospel  jo

Cherie, things like this do happen and I can personally attest to it.  A couple of years ago, while sitting in front of my computer, I simply lost all the vision in my R eye.  I had no insurance.  My husband did but could not afford to have me put on it at the time cause just to cover me it was 150.00 a wk additional on the premium.
I went to the ER and they absolutely refused to do anything for me. Unless I could come up with 1500.00 to cover the tests that I needed to diagnose me. God be my witness this is true!  My husband borrowed the 1500.00 from family, while I sat in the ER waiting for him to get back with it.  After the tests were run, I had had an eye stroke, which is the same as a reg stroke but it went to my eye instead of my brain or the heart and lungs. An eye specialist was called in and that guy was an angel sent by God.  He treated me for the following year, free of charge! He told me that I was lucky it went and lodged in the eye because if it had gone to one of the organs, I would be dead or not have use of my body thanks to the ER making me wait. If it had been a regular stroke, they had a window of about an hour after it happening to try to reverse it. So yes it does happen! A Lot!

thanks teko for sharing this, I wish that there was som. way to put this post in a column and then we could get more opinions. not to many people are seeing this forumn   jo

Teko
when you were telling us about your eye, it brought back to me a memory of a good Dr, and they are far and few between nowdays. About 17 years ago, I went to the dentist for a reline, and he noticed a spot in the back of my mouth at the edge of my throat almost, and told me to go to an oral surgeon, so i went to a dr i usually go to and he said you need to go to an oral surgeon, i dont want to scare you but things do not look good, so hemade me a appt with a well known surgeon on Joplin Mo i Live about 1 hr frive away in Vinita okla. i was scared, really scared Yhe Dr was a very nice man and friendly, he asked me what i did and several questions mostly i think he was talking to put me at ease, then he looked in my mouth, and he said do you smoke, i said yed, he said which side of the mouth do you hold your cig in, i knew he knew he was just talking so i told him i forgot he said hey\t them out and let us see, i said i left them in the car, anyway he told me like it was He said i think you have cancer, noe do not get all upset it can be beat, if you catch it in time and treat it, he said we will set up an appt for next week and see if it is ready for a biopsy or not if so we shall do one anyway i went to the desk and asked how much and she went back to the dr, then came back and the Dr said we did nothing so there is no charge i thought that odd anyway next week the dr and 2 others came in, i forgot to mention they took me right in i did not have to wait and there were 6 other people there he said well it looks like we better take a biopsy and he talked about an elderly genteman that smoked cig and just kept talking while he was injecting me with the vovicane, and boy did it hurt way back thereunder tongue he must have given me 6 or 7 he says you get better if you do not smoke, also i forgot to mention  first day i seen him i went home laid the cig down, and i have never smoked another one since he jus told me to sit real still as the instuments were sharp when he got through my swollen mouth and bleeding one i went to pay and she said 5 dollars i thought what is going on next time i asked one of the older office workers, and she just smiled. and said the Dr makes good money and he figures God has been good to him, so everyonce in a while he picks out someone he feels like they nees a little help and he does not charge but a smalll amount and he feels like you would not accept charity so he charges a small amount well this went on about 5 years and the last time he brough in another man and 3 women and i thought this is the big one and it was when he got through he cauterized it, and i have been well ever since he explained it like this he said pretend you have a pen and you have cattle pened up in it, and if one gets out you get it, that is what the biopsys were for anyway i thank God for hin i had a rough time but he restored my faith when i had so little, and i have not met another since he is not there anymore  thanks for listening   jo

Jo, awesome! Just plain awesome! That man probably saved your life! Wow! You could probably post this on the medhelp social forum.  Its not getting too much attention cause it will only show up on the sidebar of the forums you belong to or are a member of.

My daughter who lives in England has been trying to get a mammogram as she is under fifty they wont let her have one, on her Fathers side, not mine,  3 members of the family.. Aunties have had /got breast cancer ,,in England they wont do it.If by any bad luck you get secondary breast cancer they wont give you the treatment ,at all...they say its too expensive costs 20.000 Pounds for the treatment to save their lives, if they can raise it or borrow it they do.so then they go broke trying to save their lives, they are fed up with it,Seniors who get cancer and cant afford private care have had it... recently in fact a few days ago conservatives won a majority , they undoubtedly will go on to win next years General election , they are moving away from what we are moving towards.

Marypops
that is terrible. i thought they did all kinds of things especially something as important as that, cant they write whomever runs the country, or try bugging the rich Queen who does nothing, i feel so bad for her, that is the same as letting someone die right there my daughter who lives in kc mo had throat cancer they operated cut clear down to her hips and then did radiation and she has to stay on nothing but liquids as long as she has lefy, and she is not in good health. I thought England had it made with the socialized bit, guess we learn something every day  luck  jo

What we are going toward is not socialized medicine, according to the Prez it is a single pay system and if you like what you have now, keep it.  What he wants is to critique what is there and add to it so the so many million people like myself who cannot get it have an option. Sorry to hear about your daughter Margy, that must be so hard for you and her. Hugs

Yes, if you like what you have keep it.  But you still need to pay for everyone else as well.

No plan has been devised as yet, still in the thinking stages of what would work and how to pay for it. Personally, I think they ought to open the borders and allow america access across the borders. Talk about competition... hmmmm,

Update my duaghter got her mammogram, went privatly I actually asked her to get it done here when she came on vacation, thats what a lot of Brits do they come to America for treatment, anyway she paid and had it done and all is clear.

That is great to hear Margypops, especially the part that all is clear. Must be a major relief to both of you. I need to get one of those also, but just cnnot afford it right now. I do not always agree with you on political issues, but the one on the border issues, Im right there with ya. It is insane! I am glad your daughter is ok.

Margy for those of us that use american dollars, please tell us  what would that "20.000" pounds be the equivalent?

Just worked it out.... $32.00   The dollar is up against the Pound at the presant

The British economy is in a big mess, , houses took a plunge in prices again, everything is way up, you can hardly afford to buy Gas, the health caresystem,  ,whatever is said here , is in a pretty fine pickle... I have family there and hear horror stories a lot..all I can say about socialised  medicine is ...wait and see.

marypops, things are bad here to, but this is getting off the subject, but i was just wonderin, I hear abot the king, the prince charles the price that and the queen this is my question is what do they do to earn the money they spend, I have heard they have 3 fully staffed great houses, how can the people afford to support their rich habits, also what do the people think of all of this, they marry commoners so some are really not royal blood like they were years ago. do some of the people resent all of the money that go to them, as we resent sometimes what our goverment chooses to do. we had a big depressinm here in the 1920-s it was terrible there were people that starved to death, i am afraid that we are going into a bad one now here. i have notice all of the changes in economy lay offs prices up and some people are living on the streets and high payed white collar guys that had big jobs are now flipping hamburgers, they say a job is a job i live on a fixed income, and i know it is hard, but at least i have something not the best but i have a roof over my head and i am thankfull for this   jo

well jo I escaped it and live here in the US now I lived with big goverment running everything and it really scares me that this is happening here,they control everything,in the UK, they even have a TV tax and they send out vans that sit in the streets monitoring the houses and if they listed as not paying the tax and having a TV they get banned from having the TV and pay a huge fine, they are Taxed, a lot more than here, we here in the US  will soon be paying so much our heads will spin, wait till you see what out Utilities will cost..after all this O Bama has been printing trillions of dollars they dont grow on trees..... we will pay taxes, not the rich there arent enough of them but the Middle class and the lower class, . I dont have anything to offer in the way of knowledge of the Royal Family now, the tax payers used to pay for everything, even those big Castles but a few years ago the Birtish revolted and the Queen now pays her own Taxes and a chunk of change towards the Palaces.they also own a lot of the Land in Engand and get revenues from that. I did like Diana she was very special she loved children and was loved by every one.  

thanks  jo

As an update I have heard they no longer send the vans outside in the streets to check if you have a TV licence they now can check it out via tech and the PC ....we are going to be getting VAT here in the US to pay for all the Money he has printed, its Value Added Tax ,and its added onto everything ,food everything you buy,in the stores .It wont be the very rich paying for all this it will be the middle classes the rich already pay 70% Taxesand there  are'nt enough of them to pay for all this spending ....

I read an article this morning that said taxes will be raised to support the health care reform that's proposed - and they specifically said "middle class" - nothing about the rich..............

I just posted a journal last night about some of this "Health CARE Reform or Health INSURANCE Reform" - anyone who wants to is welcome to read it........... Looks to me that they aren't doing enough to make health CARE affordable - it's almost like if they make sure every one has INSURANCE - it doesn't matter what the cost of the CARE is because someone else is going to pay it anyway..............WE are, with the tax increases.........

The only good thing I've read/heard about the new plan is removing the "pre-existing" clause........

And BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor said it all --------- you can keep what you have, if you are satisfied with it - but regardless of that, you still have to pay for everyone else, as well.................................

I will check your Journal out so that I can be better informed about this Barb

Be careful what you're wishing for.....the rosy picture that is being painted at the moment may not be so rosy when the time comes. Only my humble 2cents here.
G'day everyone!!!

your 2 cents are appreciated   jo

We have socialized or "universal" health care in Canada - in theory.  However, it is still true that people with money get better care than those of us who don't have a lot of money.  Also, we pay in different ways - the gov't takes money off our paycheques so in reality we are paying for health care so in sense it isn't really universal health care.

Maybe I read this wrong but I don't see anything offensive in your journal.

lonewolf07 - I'm not positive, but it appears that some of the comments may have been deleted from this journal......

The joys of being a power-hungry, delete button pusher  = (

Yup it sure must make them feel good ...I would love to tell them what I think of them...then I would get deleted maybe there is someone sitting there with nothing to do but hit that delete all day long ..LOL

Countries with socialized medicine tend to ration care based on a scientific analyses of what treatments extend life by how much.

They also have another problem, which is before new technology can be used it has to be more generally available.

Mammograms are an interesting example. There have been many studies of breast cancer incidence based on age, trying to figure out what age is best to begin yearly mammograms. By the statistics, 50 is about right. However, there are many women who probably should get a mammogram earlier, because they have risk factors.