NON drug related - advise needed

[refusingbondage]

So this is not drug related, but I do need advise from some of you very wise people on here.  I have a very close friend/family member whose life is in ruin.  Its not drugs, its a man.  Long story short - she is in her late 20s.  She has 3 kids and is single.  But she met met this guy on the computer while he was in Iraq.  Now he is home and he is ruining her life.  In 3 months she has gone through her ENTIRE savings (10K+!!!) on him cause he came home with no job.  She leaves her kids home alone to spend the night with him.  They do drink but she isn't an alcoholic but I think he is.  Her kids are 5, 12 and 13 and they are out of control.  The 13 yr old is running the streets everynight.  She pays the 12 yr old to 'watch' the 5 year old EVERY night OVER NIGHT!!  Obviously a 12 yr old boy does not have the skills to watch a 5 yr old.  The cops have been to her house numerous times and  when they show up she is not there.  They have threatened her twice that she is about to lose her kids to foster care.  She claims she is going to stop and then she is out again.  She is on probation at work and about to lose her job because she keeps calling out or showing up late.  These poor kids are raising themselves.. She grew up in a similar situation and swore she wouldnt do this in life and she is repeating her mother's mistakes to a T.

To top it off this guy will NOT commit.  He calls her is 'cousin' or 'little sister' yet she sleeps with him every night. He sleeps with other girls and has lots of girlfriends and she just takes it..!! He is totally taking advantage and her brothers (she has 5 brothers) are about to kill this guy.. but the more the family jumps on her the more she is isolating herself and fighting back.. I want to support her - i love her dearly and dont want her to feel attacked.. Ive given all the good advise and NOTHING gets through..

What should we do!!??  I was thinking intervention or something..

[refusingbondage]

Thanks Astray and Whitie-

its so true and its awful yet I sit here and am smiling at whitie's tone. You said it.  A cold-hearted C sums it up.. I have tried to stick up for her for months now, and tried talking to her. But there is no defense here. I believe she has just lost her f'ing mind.  I know she will regret this one day.

To be honest, this person, the girl I am talking about is Michael's little sister... there is a kind of family obligation... and it complicates things further.  Michael has washed his hands of the situation and its literally a struggle to keep him from hunting her down and beating her a*s*s.  Honestly at this point, it wouldnt do any good  anyway.

He loves his nephews but does NOT want to take them as he feels it will be too much of a disruption to our lives and he does not feel even he can discipline them properly (and he is the last person to take any BS from kids)..

So it looks like we are not going to take them. I am trying to get in touch with a family at my mom's church who take in fosters.. they are good people.  

Thanks for your support guys

[whitie]

what a nasty mother she is. I have zero respect for her and she needs to get an old fashioned whoopin,for being a cold hearted C. I am sorry to read this,for your sake.   your too good of a gal to have such a bustout in your life. you sure they are not crack heads partying all night?? thats what they act like


karma will come her way,hopefully it will come in the form of about fifty slaps to the face !!

you can try, but sometimes you just cant win every battle. speak to the boys and let them know that this is serious stuff going on. tell that 13 year old what is going to happen and see if hes willing to change. if hes still cocky and inconsiderate, then tell him to have fun. maybe things will hiot home.....thats all you can do. what a night and day difference you and that clown B***h are !!

[Astray]

Wow, thats a terrible situation. Only goes to show there are many other ways to destroy ourselves than drugs ...

What you are considering taking on is a massive responsibility, as you say theres a risk to your own family. What you don't mention tho is the risk to you.

Can you honestly say that you can cope with the strain of teaching what sounds like feral children (through no fault of their own I know) how be functional human beings? Can you do that as a reformed addict without risking a relapse?

I think its great you would consider this but I believe you need to think very carefully about it first.

[refusingbondage]

This saga continues.  So to update:  DYFS was called on her.  She just got more and more out of control.  Her youngest  (5yr old) jumped off the monkey bars, fractured/broke, his little arm IN HALF.  Had 2 days worth of surgery and she stayed home maybe 1 night with him.  So anyway the 2 oldest (12/13) have been taking care of him.  None of them have basically been in school.  They are home alone each night.  She was fired from work.

And last week she got into an argument with the 12 yr old picking him up from school (pinkeye) and she was so mad she had to get him she threw him out of the car and when he was leaning in the car to get his eyedrops she threw the car into reverese (3 times!) and THUD ran over his foot, and rammed the car door into his side (3 times).  He fell to the ground and she pulled off.   A biker who owns a bar near there came out and gave him some ice and stuff and tried to get some info but he wasnt talking.. He is TERRIFIED of going to foster care, but also TERRIFIED of his mother.

SO.  Someone.. anonomyously called DYFS.  She is in some trouble for sure.  The 12 yr old talked.  The 13 yr old talked.  The grandmother talked..  About everything... the car incident.  Her never being home.  Etc.  DYFS made her take him to the hosptial to get the foot/side checked out and they are filign reports against her.

But Ive spoken to her and she basically doesnt care.  AT ALL.  She has made it very clear to me, to DYFS to everyone else that she DOES NOT WANT these kids.  She hopes DYFS places them into foster care and when they do she is disappearing.  This is what she told DYFS.

I feel so horrible for these kids.  All they ever had was their mother (no father, ever).  DYFS is calling me today and I believe they are going to see if we (Michael and I) can take the two older boys.  How can I say no???  I know and love them.

I am apprehensive.  I run a tight ship.  My son is honor roll student.  Perfect attendence.  Involved in afterschool activities.  There is no 'curfew' cause his a*ss is home before dark bottom line no questions asked.  No negotiation.  He is home for dinner, at the table.  He is in bed by 9 every night.  In other words, we have rules, the rules are respected and we are a well oiled machine.

These kids have grown up with NO rules.  Always suspened at school.  Both repeated grades.  The older one (13) is out until all hours of the night (2, 3AM). He talks back (curses, etc). In other words, he has behavior issues. The 12 yr old has issues as well. He is more immature and doesnt run wild, but has these 'flip outs' where there is just NO talking to him.. He has been at our house before where he just flips and walks out and we have to go searching for him.  Anything can set him off..

Is it selfish of me to be apprehensive about this?? I am worried of the influence on my son.  I am worried that these kids are going to wreck havoc in my life.  But they are just kids.  They need LOVE and STABILITY.  There is a chance for them.. maybe this is the only chance..But its going to be a lot of work.  A lot of stress.. Its going to take so much time and patience to bring them back.. If not me, then who??  There is basically no one else, and the thought of them going to foster care with strangers is horrible.

Help.  What to do??  

[PromisedLand]

sounds a lot like a situation my oldest (24) daughter was in with some hambone she met in Hawaii a couple years ago...after 3 weeks she fell in love was staying at his apartment and he became her number 1 focus..she almost failed her internship in dolphin training (something she's wanted all her life....we have a lot of dolphins needing training in New Hampshire)...she told us about him on the phone "oh, he swears a lot and we argue but he's really a nice guy"  Well, we begin to feel a little uneasy about this dude when she told us he called her the 'C" word, and pushed her...but, that was over quick and she was not about to listen to us...she wanted him to come over here..we said "no ******* way".  A week or 2 later he was here and they were waiting for their apartment to become available and we hardly ever saw the guy...she'd work...he'd sit in her room, smoke cigarettes (despite our "no smoking in the house" rule) and drink an 18 pack of beer a day!!

after they moved she'd tell us about a fight or 2 but it was "no big deal"  "Did he hit you?" I'd ask..."no...he pushed me and I hit him".....one morning I'm sitting here and the phone rings and it's her...crying..."What happened"  "he pushed me and I pushed him back and he threw me against the wall"  I said "Im on my way"  "no...don't come over...everything is OK"...well..sorry...I wasn't gonna take that...got my wife up...we called a hotel near the airport and booked him a room...went to his house with her brother and a friend of his (a marine)..they wouldn't let us in..we're too old...and they woke him up out of a drunken stupor to find out he has a one way ticket to Seattle at 530AM and a cab waiting to take him to his hotel...

This guy was going nowhere, my daughter didn't see it and she was going to get hurt or killed if he stayed here...and now, she thanks us about every day...

[whitie]

I come from the school of thought......that it does not hurt to try. even though time tells us that most cases it takes the person, themselves to admit it and to seek it.


some of things people told me,did not sink in at the time......but later on,did convince me to do something about it.

yes, nauty......it does hold true   :]

[refusingbondage]

Thanks for the input guys.. I basically know that I am powerless over this, I just wish it wasn't so.  I see the future with these kids and if they dont end up in foster care, they are going to end up on the streets doing God know what and the cycle continues.  Naughty -- your fight.. I thought the same way -- It is worse in a way cause there is NO excuse..The problem with DSS in my opinion is the area they live in is NOT a nice area and I cannot imagine them being placed in a group home or foster care.. I know it sounds weird, but at least they have people checking up on them where they are and at least she comes home once a day to check up on them.... NJ's Group Home and DYFS system is really really bad... Ive been talking to the family - they all complain to me about this as she and I are also friends so they think I can do something.. We decided to confront her a*ss and call her out on it.. lol

[NautyOne]

Who you hang and bang with.......LOL!!, whitie...:-))~~~What actually makes it worse is that she has no excuse like drugs or whatever to excuse her behavior.  Nothing you can do......except what you are doing now.  She will have to learn the hard way at her childrens expense......How Sad Is That, but not much you can do except keep the advice rolling..........

very sad

nauty.........

[mtgoat911]

adddictive behavior comes in many forms, becoming addicted to another person is really common, that why it is sometimes sugested that we do not get into a relationship early in recovery, our whole world can become centered on another person, rather than ourselves our are responsibilities, like what your friend is doing, leaving her kids alone to be with a man, she is showing addictive or at the least destuctive behavior, eventually it will get to some type of bottom, until then you can help her the best you can, but we are powerless over other peoples behavior, we have no control over what our friends do or dont do, the more we try to control others the more resentful we get towards the person we are trying to control, i would set up healthy boundaries with this person, let her know that she is a friend but you do not agree with her descions, explain that oyu must distance yourself from this behavior because it is causing you to stress, you might also mention that it is illeagle to leave children that age home alone, if these kids have behavior issues, leaving them at home to care for themselves is a situation where you need to call dss

"You can check with your state's Department of Social Services to see if your state has a minimum age for leaving children unsupervised. You are likely to find that there is no specific age, although the common recommendation is that children under twelve be provided with appropriate supervision while their parents are away from home. There may also be a suggestion that an older sibling, even if old enough to be left at home alone, is not necessarily an appropriate babysitter for younger siblings."

and within these laws there is a time limit on leaving kids alone, in most stated its 2 hrs, their kids get off the bus, stay home for a couple hours then mom gets home for work

[Wolverine819]

Sounds like the same situation as dealing with an addict,it might have to take her to hit bottom until she realizes how messed up her life has become.The kids are the ones who are most being hurt,if the threat of losing them is not enough to make her stop then I dont think there is much you can say to her that will.
Sounds like once her money runs out then this guy will be gone too,so maybe that will be the wake up call.Might not be drugs but she has an addiction to this guy.

[VicUser]

I agree that it is sad, we owe the brave men and women that volunteered to serve, fight and protect us the very best care. Once again, if the politicians had to live with what the military gets for health care, hey there all gov’t right, then I am sure it would be different.

[refusingbondage]

Eagle - no doubt he does.  She does too. They both do probably.. She has her own PTSD of a certain kind I suppose cause of her own childhood...

Anyway - speaking of the post-war problems, did you catch Monday's Intervention special?  It was all about post Iraq vets who came home with huge problems.  And the specialist said exactly what you said above - It's deja vu to what happened with the Vietnam vets.. SO sad... all around.

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

its deja vu all over again. The guy needs counseling and help. I saw plenty of this during and after Vietnam. Its hard to form strong meaningful relationships when people that you have grown to love disappear in a blinding flash and explosion.  Or die bleeding out in your arms from a snipers round. It kills pzart of your very soul.  Its quite common to approach this situation in a "live for the moment approach".  Its like the future and all the plans that go with planning for the future are erased by traumas of modern warfare.  His best bet is to contact the VA - they are the pro's on this stuff -  and tell them whats going on.  This will not get better until he faces the demons and realizes that he is home and safe from them....

[refusingbondage]

I know you guys are all right==she HAS to come to the conclusion on her own and Ive been waiting for her to do just that.. She is normally a take-no-BS kind of girl.. I don't get it.. I would be totally and completely SHOCKED if there was any drug use involved.. I mean REALLY shocked.. but there is always the possibility.. but I doubt it -- on her part -- him probably so.  But Ive known her for many years and she detests drugs.. she has always been kind of straight laced when it comes to drinking and drugs.. (not men though..)  Always the one person in the group to order diet coke instead of a drink at the bar.. She even stopped the weekend drinking when she hangs out with him cause it was effecting her diet.. I dont know.. Its just a shame.  I feel so bad for these kids.  They are good kids but have behavior problems and definitely need a LOT of guidance (especially in their early teens!).. I feel bad for her too.. She has issues -- had her kids way to young and never really had a chance to party or do her thing so I guess she is rebelling now.  I dont know.. I just see this situation spiraling and we are all sort of at a loss of what to do.. I think if we all confronted her together maybe it would get through.. I know deep down she feels bad about how she is acting.. but its like this dude has a spell on her or something..

[dominosarah]

All you can do anymore is sit back and watch her go down, sad as it is.  You have done all you can for her.  Hopefully she will wake up and see what she is doing before it is too late but i have a feeling she wont.  Those kids need some protection and guidance.  Are you sure there isnt any other chemicals involved??  I would bet there are......

[whitie]

not a good situation...............


sounds like she is dozing big time, at this rate those kids are going to be gone.  pretty sad a dirt bag,freeloader  takes priority of her children. thats F d up.


another example of whom you hang and bang with,makes a big difference in your life.


as long as she is gullible, she will be in denial. if the police stopping by, has not woke her up......then I am wondering if something else(drugs) is not involved.

[VicUser]

I think she will probably lose everything before she wakes up, all you can do is offer advice, as you know she will do as she pleases. I hope someone steps in and rescues the kids, whether it is family, a friend or the courts the kids need to be protected before something terrible happens to them.