Aa
Presidential candidate mud slinging
OK, so the gloves are off and the fists come out in this war of words. Who here has some true facts about each of the candidates that either proves or disproves (more or less) the allegations made by either side? My partner is even questioning Obama right now because of his ties to Bill Ayers. She is limited in her access to media other than the television right now, and asked me to research these allegations for her. I have, and I'd still vote Obama over McCain. Do you know some concrete information or anecdotal information that you would like to share with all of us out here?
When I lived in Arizona the CAP project (backed by McCain and his wealthy cronies,) was implemented. Comments like the following were rampant in AZ. Later there were allegations that McCain gave "inside information" to real estate developers and investors on the track/route the CAP canals would take. These people in turn bought up huge parcels of land knowing the Government would eventually have to purchase it back at a substantial profit to the investors. I am trying to find an article which I remember that directly linked McCain as one of the investors of real estate along the CAP waterline. This really outraged me and a host of other citizens who believe this kind of thing is as bad as insider trading on Wall Street! And isn't that a crime????? Ask Martha Stuart.
"It would only be natural for any Arizonan to try to doll up perhaps the most disastrous mistake foisted on the American public by water speculators and land developers — the Central Arizona Project. Built at four times its originally estimated cost, and based upon the expectancy of greatly over-estimated river flows, the project has been largely abandoned by the farm interests advertised to be the true beneficiaries — they could not maintain even the operating costs.
And — would you believe it? — the costs have been reallocated to the American people so that project water could flow, at public expense, to such amenities as golf courses and lavish estates for the burgeoning boom towns athirst for such.
Sen. John McCain’s zeal for reallocating the Colorado River is nothing more than flagship folly which seeks to support a failed project. Full speed ahead, damn the torpedoes, pick up the pieces.
Simple mathematics — the kind required to calculate how many houses one owns — would suggest that the true run of the river be acknowledged, that the huge federal water subsidies, which in some cases are over 100 years duration, be eliminated for agribusiness and developers, and that a water trust owned by the people of the state of Colorado would be empowered to lease whatever remains of our share of the Colorado River to whomever we chose, even Las Vegas.
The proceeds there from could be used for the public good, breaking forever the stranglehold of the special few Mr. McCain is so anxious to favor."
"It would only be natural for any Arizonan to try to doll up perhaps the most disastrous mistake foisted on the American public by water speculators and land developers — the Central Arizona Project. Built at four times its originally estimated cost, and based upon the expectancy of greatly over-estimated river flows, the project has been largely abandoned by the farm interests advertised to be the true beneficiaries — they could not maintain even the operating costs.
And — would you believe it? — the costs have been reallocated to the American people so that project water could flow, at public expense, to such amenities as golf courses and lavish estates for the burgeoning boom towns athirst for such.
Sen. John McCain’s zeal for reallocating the Colorado River is nothing more than flagship folly which seeks to support a failed project. Full speed ahead, damn the torpedoes, pick up the pieces.
Simple mathematics — the kind required to calculate how many houses one owns — would suggest that the true run of the river be acknowledged, that the huge federal water subsidies, which in some cases are over 100 years duration, be eliminated for agribusiness and developers, and that a water trust owned by the people of the state of Colorado would be empowered to lease whatever remains of our share of the Colorado River to whomever we chose, even Las Vegas.
The proceeds there from could be used for the public good, breaking forever the stranglehold of the special few Mr. McCain is so anxious to favor."
This is a repost- but seemed applicable here.
I heard an analysis of the Ayers /Keating slams on my way home tonight. The consensus was that many politicians from both sides worked with Ayres over the years in Chicago in a group that was working to improve education.Besides working in that same group, Obama's relationship with Ayres also included a neighborhood get to know the candidate when Obama first ran for the Illinois senate.Ayres contributed $200 to Obamas first campaign.A republican politician was interviewed and she basicly said that all of them worked with Ayers and his 1960's history was never a consideration. Obama repudiated Ayres early history when asked about it,
On the Keating side, McCain was involved in a meeting where 5 senators pressured some bank regulators to lay off an investigation of Keating while his Savings and Loan was apparently being investigated( the last big bank crisis). McCain was reprimanded and later apologized for "doing the wrong thing." Besides that, McCain and his family were flown to Carribean on Keating's plane where the families vacationed together. And Cindy had some real estate dealings with him. Keating contributed thousands to McCain's campaign.
The conclusion was- all of this is not really relevant- except maybe the bank regulation connection due to our current deregulation catastrophe.. But the fact is everyone has dirty laundry and is that what we really want to hear about ?
I wonder why Palin is pointing WAY backwards (for which she chided Biden) instead of focusing on the grave issues we are facing? The problem is- when you throw poo- it will certainly be thrown back. So then everybody pays attention to the !FIGHT! and neglects to focus on the issues.
I heard an analysis of the Ayers /Keating slams on my way home tonight. The consensus was that many politicians from both sides worked with Ayres over the years in Chicago in a group that was working to improve education.Besides working in that same group, Obama's relationship with Ayres also included a neighborhood get to know the candidate when Obama first ran for the Illinois senate.Ayres contributed $200 to Obamas first campaign.A republican politician was interviewed and she basicly said that all of them worked with Ayers and his 1960's history was never a consideration. Obama repudiated Ayres early history when asked about it,
On the Keating side, McCain was involved in a meeting where 5 senators pressured some bank regulators to lay off an investigation of Keating while his Savings and Loan was apparently being investigated( the last big bank crisis). McCain was reprimanded and later apologized for "doing the wrong thing." Besides that, McCain and his family were flown to Carribean on Keating's plane where the families vacationed together. And Cindy had some real estate dealings with him. Keating contributed thousands to McCain's campaign.
The conclusion was- all of this is not really relevant- except maybe the bank regulation connection due to our current deregulation catastrophe.. But the fact is everyone has dirty laundry and is that what we really want to hear about ?
I wonder why Palin is pointing WAY backwards (for which she chided Biden) instead of focusing on the grave issues we are facing? The problem is- when you throw poo- it will certainly be thrown back. So then everybody pays attention to the !FIGHT! and neglects to focus on the issues.
I read that among other things, although Ayers was a 60s "Radical," that his exploits were aimed at stopping the War in Vietnam. What a rebel! What a horrible thing to stand up for....although I 100% am against his approach of using violence.
Ayers was aquitted of the charges, however, it was mainly due to technical issues regarding the means by which evidence was obtained. Now, however, and since the 60s, Ayers has been a fervent hands-on advocate of such horrifying ideals as; education reform, housing for low-income families, and such. He was even voted Chicago's Citizen of the Year. If I'm not mistaken, Chicago is a pretty big city with lots of people to choose from, so I'd think he was held in high esteem!
Ayers was a young, passionate and, apparently near-sighted activist who made some really bad decisions, but he has done more for society than most of us ever will since his aquittal. So even if Obama had any interactions with this man recently or when he was 8, I wouldn't find it a negative.
As for the minister at his church...I was a deeply passionate Catholic once, but I didn't always agree with my pastors, and always tried to find reasonable explanations of things I was supposed to take on faith, like immaculate conception. Does anyone believe everything their pastors/ministers believe or say while on the podium? I hope not as humans are, most certainly, fallable!
Ayers was aquitted of the charges, however, it was mainly due to technical issues regarding the means by which evidence was obtained. Now, however, and since the 60s, Ayers has been a fervent hands-on advocate of such horrifying ideals as; education reform, housing for low-income families, and such. He was even voted Chicago's Citizen of the Year. If I'm not mistaken, Chicago is a pretty big city with lots of people to choose from, so I'd think he was held in high esteem!
Ayers was a young, passionate and, apparently near-sighted activist who made some really bad decisions, but he has done more for society than most of us ever will since his aquittal. So even if Obama had any interactions with this man recently or when he was 8, I wouldn't find it a negative.
As for the minister at his church...I was a deeply passionate Catholic once, but I didn't always agree with my pastors, and always tried to find reasonable explanations of things I was supposed to take on faith, like immaculate conception. Does anyone believe everything their pastors/ministers believe or say while on the podium? I hope not as humans are, most certainly, fallable!
Well, I don't get MSNBC, which is my preferred station, but I'm not willing to pay a dime more for it. LOL. So CNN or NBC is what I watch.
I do the same - if you watch the commentaries afterwards, it's amazing how many times they say things that were never said by either side! UGH!
I have held my tongue on this one, how anyone could listen and believe CNN is totally beyond me. I know Fox is biased to the right, but CNN is leans way to the left, in my never to be humble opinion.
I take ALL media with a grain of salt.
I take ALL media with a grain of salt.
I voted for Ross Perot too.
Here's some info pulled from the news today.
Obama and Ayers, now a university professor, have met several times since 1995, when both worked with a non-profit group trying to raise funds for a school improvement project and a charitable foundation. CNN's review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the volunteer projects in which the two men were involved.
Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said the two had not spoken by phone or exchanged e-mail messages since Obama came to the U.S. Senate in 2005. He said they last met more than a year ago when they encountered each other on the street in a Chicago neighborhood where both live.
Palin's attack delivered on the McCain campaign's announcement that it would step up attacks on the Democratic presidential candidate with just a month left before the November general election.
Several other publications, including the Washington Post, Time magazine, the Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The New Republic, have debunked the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship.
Riot and bomb conspiracy charges against Ayers were dropped in 1974, and he is now a professor of education at the University of Illinois in Chicago.
Obama campaign spokesman Hari Sevugan called Palin's comments "offensive" and "not surprising" given the McCain campaign's statement that "they would be launching Swift boat-like attacks in hopes of deflecting attention from the nation's economic ills."
With Obama rising in polls while the country struggles in the grip of a financial crisis, Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign decided to shift attention away from the troubled economy and on to issues of his opponent's character, judgment and personal associations, the Washington Post reported.
Here's some info pulled from the news today.
Obama and Ayers, now a university professor, have met several times since 1995, when both worked with a non-profit group trying to raise funds for a school improvement project and a charitable foundation. CNN's review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the volunteer projects in which the two men were involved.
Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said the two had not spoken by phone or exchanged e-mail messages since Obama came to the U.S. Senate in 2005. He said they last met more than a year ago when they encountered each other on the street in a Chicago neighborhood where both live.
Palin's attack delivered on the McCain campaign's announcement that it would step up attacks on the Democratic presidential candidate with just a month left before the November general election.
Several other publications, including the Washington Post, Time magazine, the Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The New Republic, have debunked the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship.
Riot and bomb conspiracy charges against Ayers were dropped in 1974, and he is now a professor of education at the University of Illinois in Chicago.
Obama campaign spokesman Hari Sevugan called Palin's comments "offensive" and "not surprising" given the McCain campaign's statement that "they would be launching Swift boat-like attacks in hopes of deflecting attention from the nation's economic ills."
With Obama rising in polls while the country struggles in the grip of a financial crisis, Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign decided to shift attention away from the troubled economy and on to issues of his opponent's character, judgment and personal associations, the Washington Post reported.
I did not mean to embarrass you, we all make mistakes. I agree with you NAFTA is bad and should be reversed.
I also think that boarder security and the flow of illegals should be addressed. Talk about a drain on our resources and funds to help our citizens, but I digress.
I also think that boarder security and the flow of illegals should be addressed. Talk about a drain on our resources and funds to help our citizens, but I digress.
I was trying to add the link to the video here of Andersen Cooper on the Obama/Ayers connection, but I am not allowed to review videos at work. My computer is blocked. Sorry!
You are right there is no guarantee, but I think that if someone claims that something is made here and it not then that is fraud and should be punishable as such. We have to start somewhere with bringing back jobs here and I think that is the only way.
I vote for the person that I think will do the best job for the greater good of the country, always have, always will. I don't care if they are Dem, Rep or Ind.
BTW, when I call HP, Dell or anyone else for tech support, if the person I talk to doesn’t sound like they are in the good ol USA I hang up and call corporate and ask for the level of support that will get me someone here. I has worked every time so far and I get good service.
I vote for the person that I think will do the best job for the greater good of the country, always have, always will. I don't care if they are Dem, Rep or Ind.
BTW, when I call HP, Dell or anyone else for tech support, if the person I talk to doesn’t sound like they are in the good ol USA I hang up and call corporate and ask for the level of support that will get me someone here. I has worked every time so far and I get good service.
(red-faced) I stand corrected. NAFTA was actually passed in the early years of the Clinton administration, however it was introduced and rallied-for in the Bush Administration (Bush Sr.) With a house dominated by Republicans, it was ratified during the Clinton Admin. Several amendments were constructed, I'm not sure if any passed, with regards to major environmental and labor problems found within the initial agreement. I can't blame Bush Jr. for NAFTA but I can say that his administration hasn't made any changes to the policy to prevent the snowball effect on jobs that has come from this.
My observations about the factories remains the same.
My observations about the factories remains the same.
Don't forget McCain was caught red handed in the Keating fraud case. He was very very lucky he didn't get jail time. Not something I would like to see on my president's resume.
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/16240/
This is a commentary on a CNN by Andersen Cooper.
This is a commentary on a CNN by Andersen Cooper.
CNN has the Truthfinder guy and he said Obama was 8 years old when Bill Ayres did his thing.he then served his time and went back to his neighborhood in Chicago...obama lived there.They had attended the same church and worked on a community project and in 1990 Ayres hosted a fundraiser for his campaign....i don't think that qualifies as what Lipsticked BigMouth who spreads false facts Palin states is "palling around with American terrorists"it has also been documented that after 1990 the two haven't had contact with one another.
I voted for Perot in that election as well...I had to re-register as an independant in that election, but I thought he had sound economics behind his platform.
As for Mexico being overseas....good question. It also would include any country in central or south America as well, wouldn't it. Maybe those call center reps will start having Spanish, Portugese accents instead. I so know that many of our garments are made in central and south America already.
And the problem with buying American products is that there is no guarantee that all, or even the majority of the products (or their components) are actually being produced in America by Americans.
As for Mexico being overseas....good question. It also would include any country in central or south America as well, wouldn't it. Maybe those call center reps will start having Spanish, Portugese accents instead. I so know that many of our garments are made in central and south America already.
And the problem with buying American products is that there is no guarantee that all, or even the majority of the products (or their components) are actually being produced in America by Americans.
If you remember, Ross Perot warned about the sucking sound from the south pulling our jobs to Mexico during the debates in 1992. Implementation of NAFTA began on January 1, 1994 and I belive that Clinton was the president then as well as the next 6 years. right?
I voted for Perot and wish he would have run again, strange little man but he had the right idea, imo.
You are right Bush did nothing to stop it neither did Clinton and I have not heard that Obama or McCain will either. I have heard that Obama will get rid of the tax breaks for shipping our jobs overseas, but is Mexico overseas?
I still think it is up to us to buy what America builds, even if it cost more. That is the only way the jobs will come back here. We can't have our cake and eat it too
I voted for Perot and wish he would have run again, strange little man but he had the right idea, imo.
You are right Bush did nothing to stop it neither did Clinton and I have not heard that Obama or McCain will either. I have heard that Obama will get rid of the tax breaks for shipping our jobs overseas, but is Mexico overseas?
I still think it is up to us to buy what America builds, even if it cost more. That is the only way the jobs will come back here. We can't have our cake and eat it too
...there is one word that comes to mind for me (an acronym actaully..) NAFTA.
Passed by the Bush administration, I have no idea how....but it brought home to me in southern Arizona what is happening globally. My sailboat was in a small town in Mexico called San Carlos, about 300 miles from Tucson. Before NAFTA, the drive was through hundreds of miles of desert wasteland dotted by small towns, with the exception of Hermosillo (a bigger city.) After NAFTA, I watched as, month by month, HUGE factories popped up all the way from the border to San Carlos and beyond....American companies, with otherwise American jobs, now on Mexican lands. Do they pay even remotely what they would an American worker? Heck no! A Mexican friend of mine was a manager in one of the factories. He was very, very happy to get his $120 a week for 5- ten hour days. How can we compete with that??? Farming out US jobs abroad is probably the biggest blow to the United States EVER! And the Bush administration has allowed, even PROMOTED this practice for 8 years. ARRGGH!
Passed by the Bush administration, I have no idea how....but it brought home to me in southern Arizona what is happening globally. My sailboat was in a small town in Mexico called San Carlos, about 300 miles from Tucson. Before NAFTA, the drive was through hundreds of miles of desert wasteland dotted by small towns, with the exception of Hermosillo (a bigger city.) After NAFTA, I watched as, month by month, HUGE factories popped up all the way from the border to San Carlos and beyond....American companies, with otherwise American jobs, now on Mexican lands. Do they pay even remotely what they would an American worker? Heck no! A Mexican friend of mine was a manager in one of the factories. He was very, very happy to get his $120 a week for 5- ten hour days. How can we compete with that??? Farming out US jobs abroad is probably the biggest blow to the United States EVER! And the Bush administration has allowed, even PROMOTED this practice for 8 years. ARRGGH!
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