Vicodin and withdraws.

[dietcokesucks]

6 years ago my dad had an operation for a ruptured disk in his lower back. Then within those past years he has been through 3 more. All making it worse, including the nerve damage the surgent provided him with >:| . While these past years he has been taking vicodin. I'm not adzactly sure on what size mg or the amount. I do know that he now takes it for addiction. He is taking almost 30 of the watson 1000mg vicodins a day. He runs out a week or more before his next prescription. So i have been illegally supplying him with them. However, my usual method of getting it is over with. I'm beginning to worry because he is constantly withdrawing VERY BAD. My question is, can not taking these pills harm him? Also, how can he overcome it?

He choses not to enter any rehabilitation programs or courses. Is there anything i can do to have him put into one? Its at the point i will do what it takes to stop this. Thank you all.

[Rieth]

My name is Amanda I'm 21 and I was in a car accident this pass November which cause my heel and ankle to break. I have been on Vicodin for almost a year now went from perks to Vicodin when the accident happened I was on the 500mg but because I was on them for so long of course my body got use to them so I'm now on 750mg. I haven't taken any Vicodin today because my foot isn't hurting so bad but it's causing me to feel really sick. I'm having surgery on my foot this November on the 10th so I know I'm going to end up having to take a Vicodin sooner or later when the time comes for surgery. I hate it cause when I don't take any I'm either in pain and feeling sick but I actually feel like myself. When I do take them it takes my pain away of course and obviously they make you feel good for a little bit but after it wears off I get in a depressed state i feel. Either way I feel like crap I just can't wait for all my surgeries to be done so I can get off this horrible drug.

[RachelsTrying]

To get the Suboxone, you can go to a doctor who is an addiction specialist.  I saw that someone left a message on page 10 or 11 of recent messages, and it is a web site with a list of doctors in your area that can help.  Do back and look in the old postings.  But, I read on the web site I left for you to look at, that Suboxone is the 1st drug in America that you can get a prescription from your doctor for it.  It can be a primary care doctor, but they have to be certified or something in drug specialist.  It is really easy to get, where do you live at?  And NOOO, your dad can not take any pills while taking this medicine.  It would be pointless, because the Suboxone has Naloxone in it.  Naloxone is so strong that it will block Heroin if you took it.  If you go to that web site I left for you, it shows 3 pictures of how your opiate receptors work, and Suboxone is like a key that fits into your receptor and blocks anything, even heroin, from letting your brain even register it.  The Suboxone was designed that way to make sure people weren't using the Suboxone at the same time they were using opiates.  If you did want your dad to continue to take pills, which I highly don't recommend, he could ask for a prescription of Subutex, which is what I take, and it doesn't have Naloxone in it.  That way you could take the Subutex to get rid of withdrawals, but if you wanted to take pills later that day, you would still have that option.  But your dad wouldn't need to take any pain medications, because sometimes Suboxone and Subutex are prescribed for pain purposes only.  So, it will get rid of the pain and prevent him from withdrawal.    

[dietcokesucks]

Yes, its the 10mg pills. I appreciate your replies! What got my attention is the Suboxone. How would my dad go abought getting this? Also, im thinking he could take this along with a smaller amount of pills each dosage to get him back down the the normal daily amount prescribed?

[RachelsTrying]

To get the Suboxone, you can go to a doctor who is an addiction specialist.  I saw that someone left a message on page 10 or 11 of recent messages, and it is a web site with a list of doctors in your area that can help.  Do back and look in the old postings.  But, I read on the web site I left for you to look at, that Suboxone is the 1st drug in America that you can get a prescription from your doctor for it.  It can be a primary care doctor, but they have to be certified or something in drug specialist.  It is really easy to get, where do you live at?  And NOOO, your dad can not take any pills while taking this medicine.  It would be pointless, because the Suboxone has Naloxone in it.  Naloxone is so strong that it will block Heroin if you took it.  If you go to that web site I left for you, it shows 3 pictures of how your opiate receptors work, and Suboxone is like a key that fits into your receptor and blocks anything, even heroin, from letting your brain even register it.  The Suboxone was designed that way to make sure people weren't using the Suboxone at the same time they were using opiates.  If you did want your dad to continue to take pills, which I highly don't recommend, he could ask for a prescription of Subutex, which is what I take, and it doesn't have Naloxone in it.  That way you could take the Subutex to get rid of withdrawals, but if you wanted to take pills later that day, you would still have that option.  But your dad wouldn't need to take any pain medications, because sometimes Suboxone and Subutex are prescribed for pain purposes only.  So, it will get rid of the pain and prevent him from withdrawal.    

[grievingwidow]

1.  diet coke does not suck!  let's just get that said right off the bat and never    speak of it again!  lol!

2.  the highest mg vicodin comes in is 10 mg so I assume you meant your dad is taking 30 of the 10 mg tabs which would make 300 mg a day?

3.  it sounds like your dad probably has a legitimate problem as far as pain and the need for the pain meds but he is definitely taking too much.  I assume he will have to cut down since you are unable to keep supplying him, right?

4.  I would like to know what the others here have to say about this problem, I am afraid I am at a loss.  I really don't think you can have him forced into a rehab, especially if he is not breaking the law and of course if he is mentally stable.  A lot of people might assume an addict cannot be mentally stable but I consider myself to be pretty with it as far as being accountable for my actions.  Some people might say talk to his doctor, but I think he should be the one to do that.  Surely, he does not like the situation he is in.  You know, you might consider an intervention.  Have you seen that show on T.V. on Friday nights on A&E?  That is just a thought.

Sorry, I could not be of more help.  There are some very gifted, intelligent, caring people on this forum though.  Wait until the morning and see what they have to say.

Love, Cindy

[marcatj]

.. i hate to be a debbie downer here, but you can't force anyone to do anything I'm afraid.  you can only lovingly offer them support if they choose to get help, let them know you will do anything to help and get them the help they need, and let them know how concerned you are.

ANYTHING is possible, but having had first hand experience with this exact situation - and my dad has 7 kids (including me!) - we couldn't "make" him do anything.  and it's taking him down.

NOW - every situation is different, but unless your pops is deemed "mentally incompetant," i'm not sure you can force him to do anything.

what you CAN do is not enable though... from your post, this sounded way more about addiction than pain... but maybe i'm just seeing it through my own experience.

and this is just one gal's opinion...

good luck, friend.

-mj

[jackson50]

Just want to claify.  Buprenorphine Treatment:  
  
Buprenorphine is a generic name for a chemical compound and is short for Buprenorphine Hydrochloride and is a semi-synthetic opioid. Suboxone and Subutex are brand names of Buprenorphine-based medications. Suboxone contains 4 parts Buprenorphine and 1 part naloxone. Subutex only contains Buprenorphine as an active ingredient.  Most physicians prefer Suboxone because it is less likely to be misused due to presence of the naloxone.

Buprenorphine has been used in the US to treat pain and in Europe to treat both pain and opioid dependence for over 10 years. Buprenorphine is a semi-synthetic opioid with properties of a partial agonist, and partial antagonist.

The agonist property of the medication tricks the neuro receptors in the brain into thinking that they have received opioids without making the patient feel euphoric. The antagonist part of the medication makes it virtually impossible for other opioids to attach to the neuro receptor sites.

Therefore, even if the patient decides to take opioid drugs after taking Buprenorphine, he or she will not receive any additional effect due to this blocking effect,

Suboxone was created for the US market and contains Naloxone. The Naloxone will cause withdrawal in any opioid dependent misuser (intravenous misuse). In addition the Buprenorphine with its slow disassociation will block opiates for up to 72 hours.

The Naloxone is there to prevent someone from crushing the tablet, dissolving it in water and injecting it.  When dissolved he Naloxone will render the buprenorphine ineffective at filling the opioid receptors but allow it to release any that are filled.  This results in an severe withdrawl.

Thus, if a tablet containing Buprenorphine plus naloxone is taken as directed

[marcatj]

... btw, you could also suggest the many new options for pain management to your father, other than pain meds (that's how i got hooked btw - 2 herniated disks.  and it IS painful.. when anyone started to judge me "oh - maybe you shouldn't be taking that..." i would tell them to shut the heck up, they have no idea what it feels like!)

that said, with phys therapy, acupuncture, epidurals, etc. - there are many options to treat the PAIN.  the addiction, again, is a whole 'nother Oprah...

Newsweek ran an article (and the front cover was) all about chronic pain last week.  It might be worth trying to get.  There ARE other options.  That said, I know when I have bouts of that kind of pain (it sounds similar to your pops...) I was SCARED not to have access to the drug (and still am.)  That's why I HAD to have the drug around - maybe your dad feels the same way?  The problem is, it sounds like he can't do what I couldn't do - take just a couple, when needed...

Anyway, just more food for thought.  Also, I have to believe another doctor would not be giving your pops so many drugs.. it may be worth a 2nd opinion.... (I know my pain mgmt. guy told me a few weeks ago - nope, no more drugs, you are masking the pain.)  As much as I wanted to punch him, I Thank God he was being responsible.. at least right now.  When I am not shaking with the chills and am in between bouts of sobbing... I may be cursing his good name an hour from now.

So just more info to give him...

I wish you much luck...
mj

[RachelsTrying]

Hi, I wanted to write back to your message about your Dad, because after taking Percocets for almost 3 years out of the 20 I've been alive, on a daily basis I feel like I can give you some advice.  You said that your Dad takes 30 of the 1000 mg Vicodins?  Did you mean the 10 mg?  Because I don't think there even is a 1000 mg or 100 mg Vicodin on the market.  It is probably the 10 mg, because that would be 300 mg a day which is a little more that what I was taking every day.  I think that it is the best thing for you not to supply your dad with the pills anymore.  My father was in the Vietnam war and got shot and had serious injuries.  When he was in the hospital he started to receive pain pills and for the next 20 years after that he was hooked on them.  When I was younger, I remember him going through horrible withdrawal and I remember having to take 4 hour trips in the car with my family to take him to the doctors.  Which was actually trips to take him to get liquid methadone from an addiction center.  And after him eating 25 pills a day for the 20 years, he had to have 26 surgeries to remove ulcers because the pills had eaten away his stomach.  He went into a coma after going into a surgery to remove an ulcer, because he was having the operation at a Veterans hospital and the doctor screwed up and he went into a coma for 17 days.  When he woke up he had serious brain damage and could no longer walk.  The only good thing that came of this was when he was in a coma he went through withdrawal from the pain killers and when he woke up he didn't even remember that he had been addicted to them for the last 20 years.  And I'm sure the pill addiction would have killed him.  We was disabled and had severe brain damage for 12 years until he eventually died in 2004 of a heart attack. The doctors think he had the heart attack because of the strain on his heart from eating pills for so many years.  So, if you love your dad, no matter how hard it is, you need to talk to him and tell him my story, and STOP giving him the pills.  Anyway, about me and my addiction.  For the last 3 years, I had been addicted to Percocets and I recently stopped taking them about 4 or 5 weeks ago.  I posted a comment on June 6th "A Miracle For Withdrawal"  I think it is on page 10 or 11, if you go back and look at the old messages.  I took Suboxone and Subutex, which is a pill you et dissolve under your tongue for 5-10 minutes, and it works with your brain to fool your body into thinking you took opiates.  I wrote a long explanation about how the Suboxone works in the message. So, you should really read my message and then go to...
http://www.naabt.org/education/buprenorphine_treatment.cfm this web site will tell you everything you need to know about the drug.  The 1st day I stopped taking the painkillers, I took 1 8 mg Suboxone and I felt NO withdrawal at all and every since that day I have been pill free and am starting to lead a normal life free of painkillers.  Read my other message, I think it is a couple above this one on the message board.  But I wrote about my whole experience about taking Suboxone and Subutex and how it has worked for me.  I hope this helped answer your questions.  Oh, and I don't think your Dad can die from stopping the pills, but he will go through the worst pain of his life in the withdrawal process. I guarantee the pain from stopping the withdrawal will be 10 times worst than his back and if he doesn't have something like the Suboxone or Subutex to take, I know he will find some pills somehow, because there is NO way I would ever go through withdrawal, I would find a way to get pills one way or another. And with your father taking the amount of pills he is a day and the level of his addiction, you have no chance of him stopping unless you have some kind of medication, like the Suboxone, to give to him.  Please, read this message to him, and if he has access to the computer you should tell him to join on here, because it is a great place for support for people stopping a pill addiction.  Everyone on here can relate, because we all know what we are going through. I really hope you can talk your dad into at least trying to take the Suboxone for one day, because when he doesn't have to take any pain pills that day he will feel the greatest sense of relief in his life.  The first couple of days when I stopped taking pills and took the Suboxone, I felt the greatest sense of relief knowing I stopped the endless cycle of having to find and take the pills everyday just so I didn't get sick.  To sum everything up, you really need to tell your dad about my dad and how he died, and you need to stop helping to feed his addiction by giving him pills, and you need to find a doctor for your dad, and have his try the Suboxone.  It is really worth saving his life, and hopefully making yours a lot easier.   Let me know how everything goes :)