You are dealing with the same set of issues that the rest of us are -- the issues that surround addiction.
There seems to be such a clear divide between those of us that are addicts and those that are not. One of the coaches for my sons football team recently threw his back out, and was prescribed Vicodin. Although he was in a lot of pain, he took the Vicodin for only a few days, and then got off of it -- and the story ends there. Of course this amazed me, because he worked so hard to get off of the pain killers, something I could not do without great effort.
And so it goes for addicts and alcoholics. You either are or you aren't. for the most part if you are, then you overuse like you stated above. If you aren't you don't use at all unless you are in authentic pain.
And who knows why...
Once you recognize you are an addict though, you have to turn on all the strategies that people talk about here, and that are listed in the NA/AA literature and work them.
(There is good news though. I am comvinced that once you go through this process, which involves helping others, not only are you stronger, but you become a better person.)
But there are downsides too. My deal, when I drank years ago, was Bacardi rum. I still walk past it in the grocery store, and I swear it calls to me. (Imagine that Homer Simpson voice, "OOOOOOhhhh Bacardi")
And like somebody else here on this forum once said, I may always remember how I felt when I was on the Vicodin, that euphoria, that "I'm in no pain today" feeling. What's the end game though for this feeling? A living helll that so many if us here are in.
I actually went to see an addictiononlogist when I was drinking, and he told me this:
"There are a lot of things that you can do in your life. Drinking is not one of them"
And so it goes with both drinking and drugs. It may be helpful for you to think of it like this. There are certain things that diabetics must avoid. People who have had heart attacks must avoid certain foods or activities. Lots of people with lots of the diseases must avoid lots of things. There are a lot of things that we drug addicts can do in our life, a lot. Howver, addicts must avoid drinking and drugs. Period. If we don't, for the most part, were not part the way back in, were all the way back in which means high doses, higher than were supposed to take. I mean, there's no such thing as being a little pregnant, right? You either are or you aren't. For me anyway, when I'm taking drugs, I'm taking lots of drugs. What's the solution then?
Take no drugs. And during the taper process, you will hate that solution. However, I'm convinced that the same thing that happen to me after I stopped drinking will happen after I have stopped taking drugs. Does everyone recall that thing that we used to call "our lives"? As many on this forum have told us , we get that back.
Good luck to you PainKilla....
I just wanted to say wut a special guy i think u r! You have helped many on this board. I have lurked for weeks since you have been so active and always am inspired by your posts. You do not know me, i used to be very active here. But thank God, now i can be back here and feel like i will not get harrassed for expressing my true feelings. Keep postin. You are so right, this addistion makes us grow in ways others could not imagine. So that is the up side. Without it, we would not at all be the people we are. The helping is what makes us grow. To me that is what religion is all about. When Jesus was asked how do we get to heaven, he did not say go to church he said help your neighbor. Our ministry is the depth of our salvation.
Take care and i am so proud of you and your detox!
Keep that Angel on your shoulder!
Just wanted to say thank you for your advice. It means so much to be able to speak with people that are going through the same issues. I HATE that I love these pain killers. I wish there was some side effect that made me not want to take them. Like alcohol. For me...it makes me throw up so I choose not to drink. Occasionally I have a glass of wine or two but it stops there. Pain Killers are the only thing that I have ever abused. I hope I can beat this.
First off...Kudos on the Simpsons reference!!! You can never go wrong with Homer.
Secondly...You hit the nail on the head. We must avoid drugs if we're not honest with ourselves regarding them. I have stated before my injuries & pain. I have also openly admitted to taking a pill or two occasionally since my detox. The only way I manage this is that I am COMPLETELY honest with myself. I AM an addict...however...I DO HAVE a tremendous amount of pain...daily. I CHOSE to be clean. So far...I CHOOSE to STAY "clean" (meaning no abuse). I have a lot of pills worth of scripts in my wallet & I don't fill them. I can't speak for tomorrow...only today. I know that this statement's killing a lot of people still feeling withdrawls today...the fact that I DO have 50 or so pills of vicodin es in my desk & a lot of prescriptions I can fill but that's not my intention nor my point. My point is, I HAVE to live day by day. I can't see into the future far enough to say that I will never abuse my medication again but the memories from 4 months ago are still very vivid & very clear...so I CAN see far enough into the future to say that as of now, I WILL NOT abuse my meds anytime soon. My life has straightened out but I can never reclaim a career that I dreamnt of my whole life...MOTOCROSS!!! I may still be in the industry & I may still make pretty good money riding but I will NEVER see the kind of cash I did before VICODIN took over. We can't ALL avoid medications...but we should if we can.
Hey, I hope you are doing better, and hope this new plan will work wonders for you.
Thanks for your kind words, but what I learned I learned from Hippee, Methman, 1day, and many others.
What is it about Hydro that won't let go. I've done weed, coke, mandrax, Lemon 714's (the best) etc. and was always able to say yes or no! Why does the hydro only make you say yes?
I'm on day 5 of tapering a 6 year hydro habit, took 1 1/2 ES's yesterday and 1 .5 zanax last night an slept for 5 hours straight, no hot bath nothing. What a great night! My goal is nothing today but the hot baths.
Thanks to all for the postings it has made want to change for the first time in 25+ years of being high on everything but life!
Yeah, I did those Lemon 714s - long time since I heard that terminology. You think I would have learned.
by the way, the difference between the Qualludes and Vicodin, can be best explained by the following bit by the ever-vulgar Sam Kinison. (I am substituting some terms here...)
"A Vicodin never caused me to drive my [freakin'] car into a [freakin'] wall!
To use another comedian, and substituting again from Richard Pryor:
I got tired of waking up in my car...........doing 80mph! ;-)
Qualludes were not the best, but the worst. The Pharmies were extremely potent and could turn a pissed off charging Rhino into turtle on Valium!
The answer to your question is technology. Huge drug companies with billions of dollars in R&D investment dollars and really intelligent scientists create this stuff, as opposed to "two guys growing some stuff in a 12x18 patch of grass in their backyards in So Cal", or some Methlab in a mobile home in Tulsa.
This Vicodin is a highly engineered Opiate and because of this, it works REALLY REALLY WELL! Guess what though? When you abuse it, it grips you REALLY REALLY WELL!
I have said this before, but I know - I KNOW! - that somewhere right now in a conference room at Merck, Wyeth, ect, managers, engineers, and CEOs are having meetings on the "Addiction vs Profit" discussion.
The minute any of these guys go public to say "We think there may be a problem with addiction of our products", their stock gets hammered, huge losses ensue, stockholders lose thousands or millions, and so there you are!
In a highly ironic twist, they _could_ be developing a anti-opiate to help people with the original opiate addiction get off of the drug. They will then sell that product and boost their profits to an absolutely silly amount. Here's the concept -- sell the opiate for the huge amount of profits, and then sell the anti-opiate for huge amount of profits. In other words, work both ends of the spectrum, both sides of the coin.
This can be illustrated by a bit by yet another great comedian - Steven Wright:
One time I bought a humidifier and a dehumidifier - I put them in the same room and let them slug it out!
This morning I think I may of had a godsend. I had gotten an 80 of oxy that night and in the morning when I planned to take it I was washing off the coating and it went down the drain.Holy ****! My dad got a scrip for 5 20's. I said I would take 2 today two the next and then one.That was my contract and I sure fu--en hope it works. I can't believe that happened.
Yes, Hippee, Methmike, Skipper, Michael, Thomas, Jesse, Chezz and other old timers are all huge stores of knowledge and generous support. Some have left here unfortunately due to the flaming. Thank God i still have them as friends to lean on.
If you ever want to e-mail me it is ***@**** or chat on yahoo messenger it is suzanne32308
That goes for anyone. I would love to hear from any of you!
Hey!!! At least you didn't get out your monkey wrench & start taking the sink apart. I actually had a friend fish pills out of the toilet after he vomitted them up. Sorry for the graphic detail but it's all TRUE. Now THAT'S an addict.
How ya feeling today?
Did you share my story with your friend?
I'll tell ya what G...If you can get your friend completetly clean & yourself as well...I'll personally take you both to the X-GAMES as V.I.P. guests...all expenses PAID. How's that for some incentive. I'll introduce you both to all of the top riders & anybody else in the industry or any other...skateboarding, BMX etc. This will include ALL ACCESS PASSES, LODGING, FOOD, TRAVEL & maybe even a souvenier or 2. You have about 3 months to complete this. You can return the favor when you sign with the NBA by taking me to a game or 2. Your friend would get a lot out of this being as he will meet the top pros, sponsers & contacts galore. I would love to do this for you & your friend but I will not drop a single dime if you're both NOT 100% CLEAN.
GET TO IT G-RHYMES...
What an incentive. . .
You may be in trouble when we get clean and i try to take you up on this offer. Thats the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me. As far as I am concernerned when i make it to the NBA you can be my personal agent. How bout that for a deal ...
You should take the 20s that you get by swallowing them rather than snorting them. I used to snort my oxys as well. You can use a lot less without feeling the withdrawals for a longer period of time if you swallow them. This worked for me. Just some advice.
Sounds like things are betting a little better day by day.
How are you feeling now that you have been able to put a small amount of opiate in you? Hopefully it has eased the pain.
I have dropped a few OC's down the drain. I used to freak when that happend. I even made my fiance open up the drain pipes once and get it out!! What a fool. Do I dare say...I miss the Oxy's. It has been about a month and a half since I have had one. Now I just take OxyCodone 5mg pills. They don't even effect me. I may miss the Oxy's but I don't miss the way the effected the rest of my life. The ruled my life. I think my car getting broken into was a godsend. God was giving me a chance to get off those Oxy's. I truly belive that everything happens for a reason.
What is my freakin problem?? I am so full of anger today. Angry at ME and these damn drugs! I have always been so "normal" at least I thought so. Why did this happen to me? I have been through so much! I tried to get pregnant for 7 years I had 2 miscarriages and then lost a son at birth. I finally had a daughter 3 years ago on the 10th and started abusing these pills when she was 4 months old? Why? Why did I ruin my life when I finally had everyhting I wanted? My mother thinks it has alot to do with my son. She may be right I spent all day everyday crying in so much pain over his loss. When I injured myself and took these pills I stopped crying finally. I saw it in a new way a better way I thought. You know it helped the physical pain but also the emotional pain. If there were no such thing as tolerance I would have to say these would be the worlds best antidepressants! But the tolerance gets you and you keep taking more and more. I am taking so much now. I look at people who take 15 a day and think I wish I was back there again even though that seemed overwhelming at the time. Detox would seem a little easier than from 40 oxycodones a day. I already kicked a couple months ago from 160mg oxy and 32 percs a day I went through hell and right when I was feeling better from the detox I screwed up. How many times can I do this to myself? It is killing me and my spirit. I am so jealous of those of you who are even through like day 5 of detox right now. I want what you have. those of you who have months....I am so proud of you, I want what you have more than anything. Your life back!!! Please God give me stregnth to taper. I know I cannot go cold turkey on this much, surely I will die or want to. I know opiate detox isn't usually dangerous but cold turkey from this amount I can't do it. Back in October I used my last inpatient benefeit through my insurance. I knew it had to be my last time. Here I am again...DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!! I need to taper today and I need to do it alot. I am running out and while I usually come up with a plan as I am not one of these people who allows myself to go through withdrawal each month when I run out early. I can't think of my plan to get more just yet. I got two bottles of oxyfast Monday that is two weeks worth if I keep taking what I am taking I only have a bout 1 1/2 days worth left. I have real pain and am being reffered to pain management. They want to put me back on oxycontin. I refuse to go there again. I need help. I will learn to live with this pain somehow as I am not responsible enough to have pain relief this way. This is causing more pain if you ask me. I just really needed to vent today. I wanted to start my taper today and ended up having to keep my nephew along with my two girls today so I used that as an excuse why it couldn't be today, it is always something. My family is really really sick of me. I won't have their support much longer I fear. You know my Mom keeping my kids so I can go inpatient for 6 days, she just did that in Oct. She wants me to suffer this time so that I really learn. You know cold turkey at home with two kids. That outta learn me huh? I have a hard time putting a sock on during detox, sleeping FORGET IT! restless legs make me insane. I think each time I detox I come closer and closer to just giving up on myself and I cannot do that. I want to be the old "normal" me again! I didn't realize then how much I loved myself. I wish I would have enjoyed being normal more when I had it. I will get it again, I want it as much as anybody else. My husband is the best man on earth and I have doen nothing for him in two years. I have been a zombie as far as emotions go. He deserves better than this. I hope he doesn't realize that before I get better. I don't want to lose him either. I love my kids more than anything and i want better for them. I am so full of love yet obviously don't love myself very much. maybe that has to be mny start. Love myself!
I wont be in trouble...I'll be STOKED!!! The deal is that you both get clean. Although I have a lot of connections, only the ALL ACCESS PASSES are free to me. It will be pretty expensive for me to fly you both out & pay lodging & such so don't dupe me on this. I want you to look me in the eye & tell me how good life is as we sit & watch 5 days of the best EXTREME atheletes in the world. Let your friend know this is not a joke & I am not going to back out. If you knew my real name, you'd know that I am a well known person in the industry & have established myself over the years. If you do not get clean before then, we'll have to extend it until next year or arrange a concert by my friends in LIMP BIZKIT or a handful of other bands. It should be obvious how important your recovery is to me.
As far as being your agent...right on. I'll be the tattooed freak handing you a towel on the sidelines.
P.S. Whereabouts are you from so I can figure how much cash this challenge is going to end up costing me when you get CLEAN?
Whare are the Xgames going to be held because it may be easier depending where they are.
Slow down a little... You're getting too far ahead of yourself by thinking about next week, when you need to stay focused on today. What can you do today that will put you on the right road toward recovery?
Beating yourself up over the fact that you are an addict does nothing but make you feel worse. You have your mom, your doctors and trust me on this, once you get into see a pain management Dr., things will likely get much better at that point. Pain management doctors, in my opinion, are so much more knowledgeable than the general practitioner, and are also well skilled in detoxification and of course pain management.
Don't forget also, that we are all pulling for you and praying for you. It might be helpful for you to sit and write down on a sheet of paper all of the great things that you have in your life. I know right now that seems like a flippant comment, but you'll be surprised at how long that list is, starting with your kids and your family.
I have no experience with Oxycontin, so it is best for me to let somebody else comment on that, but there is some solace in knowing that this is not easy. You know that right? It is not easy and will not be easy, but there is a point you'll reach where it does start to get better. Gather up all the courage, tenacity, sheer and raw attitude, and blinding anger that you have and direct it towards the drugs. Tell yourself that you will be tough for your kids sake.
We will be praying for you, and think of what you can do just for today to start your recovery, contemplating the fact that the pain management Dr. will also be another weapon you can use in your arsenal.
In no way was I trying to offend you with your offer. I promise I am sincere about this and you will know whether I am clean becuase my dad is going to be testing me all the time. I am going to try and get my friend off as hard as possible, meating his all time heroes would knock his head off.
i have been lurking around this web site for months reading all the stories.WOW i did n't know how many people were going through the same thing i was. i have witnessed some incredable compassion and wisdom on this web site which i can say w/ all honesty gave me the strength and tools to get this monkey off my back THANK U ALL I OWE MY LIFE.
MY HISTORY- started smokinking pot @ 17 on and off(innocent enough)
never really a drinker in 92 i tryed crack bad idea 6mos later i was self cured. in 2000 my friend got hurt badly and was on meds so needless to say i was 2 on and off his pain meds,till i cultivated my own black market connections oxi, percs, vics , lorset,lortab ,norco, valium u get the picture. in july i started using everyday just to get by. around aug 20th i tryed comming off
BAD IDEA. I WAS AN A-TYPICAL MESS, SO BACK ON I WENT FOR SURVIVAL. i knew i was in bad shape with these little pills and hooked( hard to accept). so i read alot off your stories got educated , took 12 days off work.and tackeled this demon(i'm not religious) it was hell i'll say no more on the subject. my last dose was thanks giving 7pm . that night i fell out during dinner i was asleep at the dinner table, i didn't last as long as my 85yr old aunt(BAD HUH) needless to say my family knew something was up. i have since then come clean w/ my mom, sister and a few supportive friends
THAT WAS A BIG HELP
I STILL FELL TREMENDOUS SHAME FOR ALLOWING MY SELF TO GET HOOKED THAT FELLING IS PASSING AS THE FOG LIFTS. HANG IN THERE PEOPLE
NOTE TO PAINKILLA-
SORRY FOR POSTING ON YOUR THREAD IT WAS THE LATEST. HOPE YOUR DOING WELL.
Take me too and I'll introduce you to Darin Shapiro, the Michael Jordan of wakeboarding!!! ;-).
Just kidding - G you had better take him up on this, or I will go back on the Vikes just to come back off to get the offer [kidding - kidding!]
Finished - How cool are you, great job! It's great to see someone who has a little being willing to share his fortunes with others.
G-Ryhmes - What a chance in life someone has offered. I let alot of opprutunities fly out the window for not having the balls to admit I was the problem. Hope you and Finished have a great friendship!
Vicojen - YOU WILL MAKE IT!
I live in Arizona. I wish I lived in cali ...
We might be able to work something out as well. You seem cool & if your interested...let me know. Wakeboarding's been another fun way for me to abuse my body over the years. I wish I had enough money to invite everybody but I don't. I'm sure I can get extra passes it's just the travel part that'll get costy. I'm not quite sure of your situation but if you want to get clean, I'll make this the LAST offer. You do it, I'll pay your way as well. If you can't or you need something else, you're not far from me so we can figure something out to get you clean. Let me know your deal (story) Consider me as a sponser for Rex1,
G-Rhymes & his moto buddy. It'll be great to have a hand in your recovery.
The GAMES are in Philly. If you live in AZ. I'm out there at least once a month for contests, meetings etc. I've also got a lot of friends in AZ. so we can probably hook up there & fly out of Pheonix or something. YOU CAN DO IT JR.!!! Get your buddy on board & let him know about my problems & my offer. Like some people have said, this is a good oppurtunity & the least I can do to help a fellow addict get back on track.
Like I said, I WISH I could offer up incentives for everybody here...but I can't. Sorry. Just trying to do something above & beyond to help the YOUNG people figure out the error of their ways before it's too late.
You can't feel shame if you've learned your lesson. Beating yourself down for a mistake is self-destructive. Acknowledge the fact that you made a mistake & move on. The sooner you can do this the better you'll feel. Don't give the depression any further fuel than it has. You did a good thing in getting clean. Give yourself credit where credit's due. You'll get by O.K. You've already kicked crack in the ass...now kick this in the ass. Soon you'll be writing us & saying how hard it was but you made it. COME INTO THE LIGHT MY FRIEND...