Hey everybody... I dont know if I am doing this right, I just signed up, it seemed from what I had read that there are a lot of good hearted people out there... So if anybody cares to read I am going to write... Hopefully its not too long... Anyways... I am so lost... I have been taking Norco for about 4 years now... the thing is, is that it is for a purpose... I am a very active 23 year old with three herniated discs in the lower back as well as a bulging disc... I also have tumors in my right butt cheek and thigh that doctors cannot remove. They have tried many operations and cannot get rid of them, so I am left with painful growths, and a half ***, its bone to skin... so needless to say I am in a lot of pain... and I hate it. I have been offered to take a drug more powerful, but I am pretty happy with my Norco and am scared to move up on the drug map. Anyways... I have to have it to feel normal nowa days... I have done withdrawal a few times in the few years but in Feb of this year I lost my job of 6 years (as most people do in this economy when you are dispensable) and Ive pretty much lost everything... I still take my meds though and will do nearly anything to get my hands on them, 1) for the pain and 2) so I dont have to deal with withdrawal. I usually take them as prescribed (10/325), I take 2, 5 times daily (10 a day) and for some reason the Pharmacy would not fill them yesterday... I dont know why, I had a refil and it was within fine time for the refil and they wouldnt fill it. Mind you I have NEVER been to an ER to get pain meds, I have NEVER seen multiple doctors to get meds either, so I know I am not red flagged. Anyways, dealing with the withdrawal yesterday was like nothing I had ever felt in my life... It was worse than ever, and about three days ago I hurt my back pretty bad, so between the pain... it was horrible... terrible... I couldnt stop squirming, I couldnt relax, I was exhausted but I couldnt lie down... I literally thought death was a better option at that point! I mean, holy cow it was so bad... I even smoked marijuana (which I quit, well obviously not) to try to get some sleep at 10pm and I still couldnt stop squirming. I used to use weed a lot to get to sleep, that was the main purpose for the use, because my brain always thinks, and moves and all that **** so I used to smoke a bowl and go to sleep... but I always said if I didnt work, I wouldnt smoke and since Ive been unemployed (since Feb) I have smoked only about 4 times... so I think Im pretty good with that. Mind everybody here I am NOT, well I am now... but I am not a person in the dumps... I had built my life up to be pretty big for a while there before the economy got bad... I am an office manager, IT Technician and an Automotive mechanic, but there are pretty much NO job openings here in Chicago... I have had 45 interviews... and I know my resume kicks *** and I interview very well (what I have been told) Anyways... I dont know what to do anymore... I mean I really dont abuse the medications much... but know I need them... It scares me to think that I dont have a job, no insurance... but I HAVE to have them... no matter how broke I am or my roomate is... I keep trying to figure out if I have a problem now because of this situation... I dont want to stop... I do a million things in a day and it is sooooooo nice not to have as much pain as I would otherwise... I DO NOT spend all day sleeping, or laying on the couch... I clean, cook, go shopping, work on the cars or look for jobs all day... I just dont know if this issue has turned in to a problem... I just dont know... but I know the withdrawal is terrible... its the worst feeling in the world... I just... never figured I could feel as horrible as I did last night... I really just wanted to scream and yell and hit stuff... Anyways at about 11pm last night I called the 24hr Walgreens near my apartment and asked her if she could fill them and she said yeah with no problem (I dont know why it wasnt released earlier in the day when it was time for my refil...) so I drove all the way there, got my Norco and I was good to go... I fear so much of withdrwal happening to me again... It just cant happen... It cant... Each minute took an hour and each hour took a day... thats what time felt like... I couldnt get in to my music like normal... I couldnt get in to a movie on TV... Somebody please tell me if I have a problem or not... because I just dont know... I know I have horrible excruciating pain... and I dont think that they are a problem, but as addicts do (from the research I have done, and I have done a lot) anyways, but as addicts do, they make excuses to justify their actions... and I have no idea if that is what I am doing... Somebody out there... please help me... Somebody tell me I am ok... Somebody tell me I am not ok... EVERYBODY TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK! I am open to all suggestions, comments or statements... I just need to know...
I am gonna say this one more thing... I cant believe how much trouble stupid pills can get you in... I mean... I never ever even took tylenol for a headache before all this happened... Now if I feel any pain, I take another dose... They consumed me pretty quick... I just cant believe the problems they have caused... Its riduculous... I like to think of myself as a very very strong person, but I cant deal with the withdrawal I had yesterday when I had been able to do before when I used to take a few more than I was supposed to when I first started Pain Management (this was about two years ago, not recently), but last night was ridiculous... bad... bad... bad... I just cant believe what a small pill can do to you... the damage... everything... I have NOT let them destroy my life though... They have nothing to do with me losing my job... Although, they are the cause of other bills not getting paid!!!
Sincerely, best wishes, Happy Holidays, Peace be with you,
Lost, Confused, Depressed, Unhappy...
I feel ur pain..I am a chronic pain patient as well,,,on my way to get an epidural at 930,,,no one can really say whay is ok for u, but u...i decided to get off the pain pill ride and manage my pain in other ways..and to be honest i am not in any more/perhaps less pain thean on the pills....i think for me they made me not care a smuch about the pain instead of actually relieving it...my tolerence climbed and i found it frightning...took 20 mgs to what 5 mgs would do in the past...i woke up every morning feeling yucky and had to take the pills to feel ok...stress aggravates my pain..and therefore i have less stress now without the pills..
sounds as tho u are a "legal" addict right now...i had passed that point...never had alot prescribved to me thos as down south they r stingy with narcotics.which may be a blessing i guess...just wanting to let u know the emotional pain pills cause can outweigh the physical relief for some people
Yeah... Thats what Ive heard... that you can cause much more pain taking pills... and if you finally do come off of them, your pain level is a lot lower... Thank you sooooooooo much for actually taking the time to read my ****... I have tried the epidural about 6 times... and it didnt seem to work more than a couple days after the pain from having it stopped... The problem with me is that... I really like taking them... I know I feel so bad in the morning, and like you said, you have to take them to feel better... I just dont know, and I not going to lie, being in horrible pain my whole life, the pills were almost god sent when I first started taking them a few years ago... Its like, life got better almost... I could fit more things in a day, do things a hell of a lot quicker and blah blah blah, but its almost like the down sides of taking them outweigh the up sides... I wish I had your courage... I really do... When me and my older brother talk about addiction, he has no idea what its like, and he says that it would never ever happen to him... and maybe he wouldnt get addicted who knows! Im just afraid to stop because of 1) Withdrawal, and 2) having to deal with pain again... JEEZ THIS *****!!!
Thanks again for taking the time to read my babbeling... I appreciat it a lot!!!
Ok I need to proof read before I post, I APPRECIATE it a lot!!! I know there are a couple other spelling mistakes in there... sorry I didnt get much sleep... I will proof read from now on!!!
Hey I am sorry too... Good luck with your epidural today... I know they suck... My heart will be with you!!!
Wow, I do, as many others will, sympathize with your situation. Real and warranted chronic pain is nothing any of us asked for. Unfortunately, for most, pain meds are the only remedy. The problem is once you get on the meds they become your master - in more ways than one. You cant live without them and you cant live your life properly on them. They will always hold a hammer above your head - with someone elses hand on the handle. Doctors, pharmacists, the law, and others will always have their hand on the handle. At any point in time, the hammer can fall - with disastrous results. I too have legitimate chronic pain - but had decided to get off oxy because it was controlling my life. The oxy is gone but the pain is still there. I have been looking at various forms of treatment/drugs that will not hold me hostage as much. However, if you rely on a "controlled" substance - that is just it - it will always be controlled - by somebody else, not yourself. Some Anti Dep.'s can help deflect the pain and emotion you are feeling - but once again you will be on a med. that is not controlled by you and coming off of those can be just as traumatic. In the end - all patients on any meds usually dont have the prescrip of choice for the rest of their life - Most meds don't even work after tolerance build up without escalating the dosage. I had to bite the bullet and go off the heavy pain meds. I have had to take a new anti-anxiety/pain suppresant however in place of oxy- but I know I need to go off this in time as well. There seems to be no right answers for any one person. I would however consult a doctor who is sympathetic to your predicament and can assist you in a "transitional" med to help with your issues at this point. I too was a "strong" person and did not take even aspirin before my contact with opiates - but I'm trying to figure out how to gain control back of my situation. If you want off these hydro's dont go back to them cause it sounds like you are halfway thru the physical withdrawals anyhow. But do get some advice on the emotional/anxiety part because that will not go away in a couple of days.
Hey, thank you too for replying to me, I appreciate it a lot... Just the fact that anybody is actually taking time to read my story... I know it was long, and I apologize for that, and youre right... its such a hard prediciment to be in... Its almost like you lose either way! Either A) be restricted and be in pain or B) have a drug controlling your life and your decisions... Its like, what is the right answer! My Aunt has been in rehab twice for medicinal pain addiction, and her addiction was soooo bad... I have a huge family and she is like my best friend... Anyways, when I talk to her and see her, off of the meds for quite a few years now, her pain is just ridiculous.. She is always sleeping, not getting up, not doing much at all... So its almost like its no better for her... and I dont want that to turn in to me. I mean obviously, the effects from drugs are not still on her, I mean they cant be after 5 years so obviously, this is what she has to deal with... I couldnt do that! I mean I do not take drugs anywhere NEAR the amount she used to... but still... she is in a lot of h*ll and a lot of pain and I feel soooo bad for her... I just dont know... I do like my life, not being pain free, but having the pain nulled so much more than it would be otherwise... being in this position really SU*KS! I just wish there was a pay to take away my pain, and not take damaging pills... Sorry, but thanks again for reading all of that... Your comments, words and everything mean a lot to me...
i am sorry about the pain you are having. it s no fun at all. from reading your post i feel like you know these drugs are controlling your life and you need to control your own life. i was a heavy opiate user also. i have a bad back and DJD in the shoulders and after being on the meds for a year i guess i built up tolerance and had to take more not just for the pain but the buzz too. they were controlling me to the point where i thought i could not live without them and boy was i wrong. i tried aleve, advil, and bayer back and body with no help for the pain. now i am using just plain old aspirin and it helps a little. have you ever tried anything non narcotic? i wish you lots of luck. try to get these evil pills out of your life if you can. you can pm me if you need any help..take care..maria
See, thats the thing... I dont know if I have the control or if the drugs have control or both... I dont see them as a bad thing... I see them as a positive... Its the worry about not having them, and the cost that is controlling... I dont see what I do as bad... and thats my dillema... Is what I am doing bad? Or is it OK... Im not doing damage to my body (I have liver checks and all that) I have the psycological tests done as well from a social worker at the doctors office I have Pain Management thru... Everything checks out ok... I dont think that I think differently, or see differently... When I first started taking these a few years ago I decided to tell all/most of my friends and some co-workers and bosses to monitor me for any changes... and nobody ever said anything... I just... I dont know... Would I like to be off? HE*L YES!!! but do I think I can deal with the pain along with dealing with everything else in life? No... I dont... Pain *****... Its a horrible, horrible thing and can diminish your life in to nothing... I see so many more positives when I take them... Im happy, energetic, and so many other things... but I know how bad they are... Im so torn and lost... I have abused them before... I mean who hasnt who is a chronic pain sufferer... but Im basically back on track... I just dont know what is worse...
I am following your posts because I can relate to your situation exactly. The hardest part for me was deciding whether I was in control or not. I also saw the pills as a positive and they enhanced my life for the better - so what was I doing so wrong? Sometimes you know you should be off the pills but you justify their use. Your logic is correct in many ways; Pain needs control and you have been prescribed them so it must be OK. Let me tell you - I justified my use for years but the fact of the matter is 1. your dose must constantly be adjusted to higher levels to combat the pain - this means that at some point, you either get no relief eventually, or, the high doses of meds will escalate the negative aspects of this drug beyond your positives. 2. You will, at some point, not be able to re-new your prescrip. when somebody decides to end it for you - or - if you rely on getting them from the street, at some point your supply will stop for some reason. So therefore you will be forced to stop at some point in your future with no choice anyways. 3. I do not believe that an individual can take these opiates (even within the confines of a legal prescrip.) and NOT become addicted to them at some point. If you were never an "addict" prior to these drugs - you will become one after months or years of using. Your body starts to rely on an external input to combat the conflict within. You cannot help but be an addict.
Having said all this - does this dialogue fix your pain? - NO. There are some other less heavy duty pain meds that can help and are (less?) addictive. But you must take control of your body either way. These pills are controlling your mind and body when you dont suspect it. Just go off of them to find out. Let me re-inforce my view - in the beginning all I ever saw was positives to this wonder drug. Everything improved for me. I wondered why everybody wasn't on this stuff. I was so much happier, productive etc. etc. But it does not last forever! - you are chasing the happy train but can never catch up. Over time you will be left further and further behind - and guess whats coming up behind you - the bad/scary train. Time to get off the tracks - trust me.
hi and welcome to the forum....i have to say from the tone of your post you are in denial...NOW i am NOT saying you dont have legitimate pain...what i am saying is the pills are completely controlling your life. yes you do things but you do them all based on pills. i know for some pills are necessary for quality life...but then as an addict i also know how the mind creates pain to get you to feed it pills. it is a vicious cycle. yes w/ds are he11....read back over your post...if someone else had written it and you were reading it, what would you say???? i am sorry you are in pain...i have severe TKJ and have had several surgeries non of which helped...the bone in my joint rubs every time i move it...some days are killer...i made a choice, i stopped the pills and i treat with anit-inflammatories, muscle relaxers, and800 mg ibuprofen...i also get killer headaches from the jaw...i treat those with excedrin migraine....i use ice and heat. bottom line is it is chaoice...good luck to you
I dont know if I am ready yet... dont know if I want to wait until they do not work for me anymore. The scrips are 100% legal from a very very very good acredited doctor... What is great is that he actually listens to you and trys to help... Youre probably right though... but I can honestly tell you that I am NOT ready... Especially after last night, what I had to go thru. I thought being in Pain Management was for the point of NOT having to stop... For the continuous flow to help with your pain. I was on one thing when I had my job and insurance that was actually pretty amazing, and you cant really OD on them, it was the Duragesic patches, but without insurance the price for them is SOOOOOOO HIGH! When I was using them, it had absolutely NO adverse affects, I felt good, no tiredness no nothing... I wish I could go back to that night now, but maybe wait until I have insurance again... but then it brings back to your point of your bodies tolerance... That will always be a problem regardless, especially being 23 years old. My back is INOPERABLE and the tumors... well they cant find a cure yet, but Im not trying at the moment either, because, well I HAVE NO INSURANCE! I just wish I had never seen a doctor in the first place... Is it bad not to be ready to quit??? I dont know! I just dont think that I am strong enough to do so...
Thats why Im asking... I may be in denial... I dont know. I have absolutely no idea, and I am one of understanding and I understand peoples problems... But honestly, WHY do they even have pain management programs if EVERYBODY is going to get addicted? I mean... seriously, wouldnt it be illegal? Now Im not saying that I do not have a problem... but the fact that I take these as directed, and Im not tired at all from them, and what not... Does it have to mean that I really am in that deep? Like I said, maybe I am, I am trying to figure that out... but not everybody that takes these meds can fall in to a bad spiral... I mean, Im constantly monitored, never been to an ER for anything, and I have never ever been to multiple doctors after four years of use... I mean, yeah maybe it is denial... maybe Ive got a much bigger problem than I think... BUT I do like my life of being somewhat pain free! I love it! It such a wonderful, Amazing feeling to be able to go to a concert and not be in tears from being on my feet, to DJ (I own my own DJ business as well) and not have tears from being on my feet, or lifing and putting away my equiptment... I like to be able to sit on a harder surface (wood, cement) and not want to freaking bust out in tears because all I have to support me is a BONE... I dont know... I really am trying to weigh this out... About two years ago, I decided I wanted to quit, and I went a month without taking any... Yeah it was ok... but it was always pain pain pain pain pain on my mind... because it hurt so bad! I would fall getting out of a car after driving because it hurt so bad... Trying to put on my socks and shoes in the moring was the worst! I mean it seems either way its going to be HE*L getting through this!!! See Im still lost!!! Ive talked to my doctor about everything too and he doesnt see it as a problem... and he a GREAT acredited doctor... Many awards for his practice and his work... I mean if he thought I had a problem wouldnt he tell me??? I DONT KNOW AHHHHHHHHH! Thanks though...
i have no doubt you have a good dr and that you have pain. whats right for one person may not be right for the other. i have a good dr and could go today and pick up a script if i choose too. the difference i would abuse mine. i would not take it just when i had pain...my mind would tell me over and over how badly i hurt til i took the pill..then i would be okay til the pill wore off then my mind would be going crazy...thus the vicious cycle. anyone that takes hydros for 4 years or uses the patch and then takes 10 hydros per day is at the very least physically addicted...and the proof of that is the w/ds you suffered. only you can decided if you are mentally addicted to those pills...p.m. centers do exactly what they say...they issue pills for pain...thats how they make their money....its good that you are considering this now instead of when you are taking 20 a day..
Well, I know I have a very very controlling physical dependence for them... Its nuts... Obviously because of the w/d I experienced last night... I know that... but when I was doing my research on addiction I actually found there was a difference between 1) Physical Dependence and 2) Addiction... The difference is that when one is considered an 'addict' it means that one is taking more than recommended, and usually harming ones body because one doesnt have a care for the body, just the drug. Physical Dependence is when one is just dependent upon them after taking the recommended dosages for so long, which will happen regardless of what you do... and that your body WILL need the drug after a certain point of time because you have been taking them for so long. It is inevatible... Youre right though... As much as I DO NOT want to I am going to have to seriously consider this, and ever since I have signed up for this forum (today) I have learned so much more from you and others, that I have found on the internet... Its so damn scary though... It scares the absolute SH*T out of me!!! I guess that if it isnt a problem now... that it will be regardless... and that really stinks... because I thought I would be ok. I think I have more than enough proof that it wont be... I really dont want to go back to a life of pain though... As if the w/d wont be bad enough... the pain will resurface, and as I rebuld my pain tolerance and everything... I know it is still going to hurt pretty bad... and I am not really ready for that.
As for the patches, when I am finally able to go back to work and get insurance again, I will probably just go to the patches again, no pills... Just the patch... I dont know if that is a good idea either though... but at least with the patch I am not able to take more and more and more... Thanks again!!!
not everyone gets addicted...but i did..sounds like u did...not everyone does..they have researched it and perhaps a chemical imblance, who knows...a long time ago when i took hydro i felt awful..hated em..then one day they hit me right..i was like WOW!
Only u know if u have a problem with them..again not everyone does have a problem...people can use them when pain is bad and let them lie in the cabinet til they need them...can you? doesnt sound like it...some people do not seek energy or a buzz..some do..only u know if u do..I did....i was not taking them for pain relief but kinda like an energy pill/AD type thing
Some take them and never develop a huge tolerence to where they need more and more but if used long term most can be physically addicted/which is totally different that the type of addiction this forum is centered around...u know if u have the mental addiction...u just know
Well, I just started taking them as the doctor told me to... I used to take them as needed for pain, until he switched it to, every 4 hours constantly... So... I can always try to just put them away, and take them as needed ONLY. That could work and sounds like a really really good idea to start getting off of them. Having them but only using them if I really really really have to take them... I think I might be able to do that, I dont know... but I am sure as heck going to try.
Thank you for that suggestion!!! Thats great!
unfortunately the physical addiction can lead to mental addiction cos ur body will fight to not feel bad causing u to horde pills and worry about running out..it is a self protective mechanism....ur brain will freak cos u r low on pills..in the end i beleive they become one
narcotics were never intended for long term pain use due to tolerence and dependence...doctors are slowly stopping this for back pain, etc...it is becoming harder and harder to feed an addiction legally...then u really get a taste of what pills can do to u...just cecause u have a doctor prescribing u a good amount/dont count on it for long term as he can be investigated etc..happens everyday...dont be ashamed to say this may be a problem i need to deal with...that is something to be proud of to be able to be strong enuf to admit that this couold be detrimental and u may need to work on it
How much r u taking each day? i was at 80-100 mg of hydro when i quit
well give it a try...see if u can...if u can then u r ok as a rule...if u can not then it may be a problem....chances r that u cant so prove me wrong! LOL
Hahaha yeah I will try to prove you wrong! I am on 100mgs a day, I was told to take two every four hours, (10/325). I have thick blood and it has always taken a lot to do anything for me. During surgery it was always hard for them to figure out the anestesia and whatever, morphine/valume/oxycontin and theres a few others do not work for me what so ever. They do absolutely nothing for me so they have just kept me on the hydrocodone. I had this brain test done before they put me on such a high dosage to see if I was telling the truth, it was so funny becuase the medications can/obviously affect your brian activity, and anyways, they gave me two doses and I had to lie there for 5 hours doing different activities, reading a book, listening to music, watching TV, or just laying down and they did determine the strengths of the medications on me that way. The other weird thing is that since I have been in for a million interviews I have had about 11 drug tests now, and every single on of them came out negative (-) for opiates... which is really really really weird, and the other doctor I used to see thought I was selling them because he administered 3 drug tests (it was a rule, they had to do drug tests at every visit) and the all came out (-) for opiates, which, yeah like I said he thought I was selling them, so he made me take two doses, wait an hour or two and then administer the test again... Yet again it came out (-)... Explain that one to me!!! LOL anyways... I have had the tests done to determine the affectiveness on the brain and it was minor-moderate but nowhere near enough to cause a flag with them...
I dont know... Anyways, I dont know what the point of those stories were but yeah... Im going to try that tonight/tomorrow with leaving the bottle in the bathroom...
20 mg every 4 hours...that would be perhaps 100 mg a day? 80? that was my dose but never had a dcotr prescibe me that much...4 a day max and that was short term....i have a friend in illinois who gets 5 a day for migraines! not in these parts/no way! she denies mental addiction and got caught doctor shopping as she actually takes 7-8 a day and runs out all the time..contant rat race... i have a screwed up back with plates and disc poking out/no disc at all in 2 places and they wont give me more than 40...screw it,..so i was out on the streets or trading with friends..sux! done deal...if u r getting 8 a day then u will need 10 a day soon then 12 ady then up and up til u r on oxycontin to avoid the toxic tylenol u r ingesting.....8 pills x325 tyelnol is till safe but long term ur live can turn into concrete
promise if u cant control ur use...u wont join the rat race? that u will get off and give alternative pain measures a chance
Ok... well I just replied to this but it is gone now? I dont know what happened... Anyways, I am on 10 a day (100mgs) and the doctor and I agreed that it would NEVER go over that... Anyways, I make this promise to you and everybody else that I will never ever start to get drugs off of the street. Never, no no no. If I do not do something about this before that point, and if I do hit that point I will seek help immediately. I will NEVER go that far and that is a 100% promise.
if u were unable to get 100 mgs a dy this oucl change..ur pact with ur self...so start getting ur perspective straight...u just never kknow when the pills will not be available for u anymore
Like I said, if it ever comes to that point, its not the drugs Im after, its help, or rehab.
I think the fact that you have discussed this issue of prescription meds and their possible dangers and/or negative effects is a step in the right direction. Only you know how much pain you are in and what is going to work for you. Just be aware of the traps and pitfalls you may encounter. You must be vigilant and never never stop getting information or doctors advice.