Alternatives

[JAMAWAMA]

Hello,
Is there any alternative narcotic(less potent)that would help with replacing Hydrocodone. I've been taking the prescribed dose of hydro for over a year now. I would like to be done with them but don't want the WD's. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[IrishRose]

Hi Wren,
     No it wasn't my day to watch him but I did anyway. I was supposed to be working at home but he distracted me,he's an old fart but a really cute one.  I finally told him to go play outside and he did and he actually did some yard work when he was out there. He laughs at me about the Darvon too. I took one, mind you, one, about a month ago when I hurt my neck. Much to his amusement, I really got really looned out on it and one flexeril. But I'm just a lightweight alcoholic with a fondness for cough syrup and benzos not a crusty old junkie.  W/D's suck don't they? Hope you are feeling better. You are right about the Chalomile (sp?) tea. I have found it to be a cure all for just about all that ails me from a broken heart to my aching back. I think I will go make some now and curl up in bed with the latest buddhist book I am reading. Good karma to all and to all a good night.
IR

[angst]

it sounds like you have your hands full.  it is tougher when a person is older and hurting.  i used to be a nurse until i failed a UDS.  i'm glad skipper is fine.  he is a wonderful poet.
he could bless us with some of his prose.  don't get too busy to take care of yourself.  i care.  good luck and Blessings, Ava

[GOD]

Hey... Nobody needs to watch Skipper.... He does quite fine on his own! By the way, where have you been lately Skip? I just got back from Minnesota last night (again) been dealing with my poor morphine addicted Aunt. She's considering a stay at Hazelden treatment center, but she's afraid of what the withdrawls will do to her. She has been on Morphine for almost one year now, and ONE time she only had a half-day dose to last until her next refill, and was rolling on the floor in considerable pain. She knows it will be a hard road, but wants to get the treatment, as her pain is now more Morphine-related nerve damage than the original neuropathy... and more pain meds are only going to make it worse.

Good Day!
Jess

[angst]

Girl, you got ants in your pants.  You got us all pegged, but I do not have a stash, except for that gross orange juice methadone.  If I take it today, I only have one dose a day, and I would be in a fix if I did not have my fix tomorrow.  That is the methadone dilemma.  I don't know about the loss of hinkster and irishrose,  man, everybody is slowly moving to another group of guru's, like we are not good enough.   Now who's watching SKipper?

[rowanshyne]

I just want to post what everyone else is saying:

I really, really, really hate being an addict.

I've posted before that my brother and husband have chronic pain, but if they run out of pills, oh  well, ho hum.  I could just smack them!
Thank you all for being here each and every day, and when I'm crying and dying coming through for me.  I hope one day, I can do the same for someone.

gwh - I know *exactly* what you're saying. EXACTLY.  You're not having W/D, you're not even afraid of having W/D, you're simply in the habit of taking the bloody pills!
Time to get up, reach for a .... oh, they're not there anymore, hmmmm.
Have to make an important call, meeting, appointment, better grab a ..... oh, they're not there anymore, hmmmm.
Feeling some uncomfortable emotions, I know there used to be something I did when that happ .... oh, they're not there anymore.

Angst - Family leaving me all alone for a few days, alright!  I'll take some ..... oh, they're not there anymore.

Tracy - Gods you are *so* good.  Don't worry.  They're not there all the time anymore, and you really won't need them to be.  I love you.

Skipper - Do you know I hear you gasp in amazement every time I post that I was addicted to Darvocet for *six* long, bloody, friggin' years.  Stop that!  I hear you laughing.  Listen, I was an alcoholic for six *weeks*, too.  Had to be hospitalized and sedated to prevent DTs and yes, it really was only six *weeks*.  As my Daddy always used to tell me, "Sugar, you can do anything if you put your mind to it", and I did.  I became an alcoholic and finished with it in two months and I was addicted to *Darvocet*, so neener, neener, neener!  Lol!
Hug that angel on your shoulder for me.

Irishrose - Was it your turn to watch Skipper today?

Am I the only person who ever laughs on this forum?  No, I am not high.  I am in fact craving and twitching until my last taper dose of the day.  If I can't laugh at something, though, I may as well just take the whole bottle and be done.

Blessings,
Wren

[angst]

tracy,  good to hear you are feeling better.  i did not think you would have w/d's after only 15 pills.  you learn a lot and pass it on to me.  thank you. i need your support and wisdom gained from the ups and downs.  
Skipper puts it words that i cannot.  i'm not the poet. he is a talented writer.  for me, certain people really compliment one another by their differences and common ground.  we all struggle to stay away from drugs.  but life does not stop because of me, and my daily problems.  it is for me to try to find the solution.  i usually run it past the forum for input.  this is a great place to voice solutions before trying them.              Thanks to the whole forum, it is stronger as a whole than any one individual in the forum.    Ava

[TeleVision]

well i know this is gonna be burried in all these posts but i think the best thing to switch to is darvocet N-100 or darvon 65mg. Schedule IV narcotic as apposed to S III hydrocodone. it is a step down and then maybe you can tapper off those easier.

TeleVision

[tex3]

Sorry I freaked on y'all yesterday. After I detoxed in April I swore I'd never go through that again, so when I thought I might have to it scared the **** out of me. BUT, the good news is I don't think it's going to happen. After taking a few doses yesterday my head was finally better, but I was sick as hell from the pills; I think my body can't handle that high a dose anymore, it killed my stomach. Made me remember why I quit in the first place.
I emailed my doctor and he said he did not think 2 days of hydros would cause withdrawal, which calmed me down. This morning I woke up with a migraine "aura" so took my Imitrex nasal spray, which got rid of it. So far no headache, and I havne't touched the Lortab. Best of all I am having no withdrawal signs so maybe all is okay! I still have some left so if it gets bad I will take -- but I'm not craving! Yeah! Makes me a very happy girl. I actually feel pretty damn good this morning. Going to my mom's tonight, where she has a whole bottle of Imitrex she's giving me, so hopefully I won't get into this mess again. One good thing is it reminded me of why I don't want to be a pillhead. Not that I ever forgot, but it was a good remedy to the cravings that were hitting me. Normally if I had ANY pills in the house I'd swallow them first thing when I awoke, but today I didn't touch them. Sounds simple but was a big step forward for me.

I want to thank everyone who offered me support in so many ways. Y'all are the best group around. I won't be here through the weekend and will miss everyone, so expect lots of posts from me on Monday.

Angst -- When your ex and daughter go away, try to think that instead of being left alone, you're getting some free time! Read a book, be lazy, enjoy yourself, go see movies, anything you've wanted to do but couldn't while playing wife (or ex) and mother. And write/call me any time you need to. You've come too far to slip, and I know you won't -- you're the original "mean queen" with drugs!

[tex3]

I've written in pieces about what's going on with me right now. I know everyone is busy and I shouldn't keep bugging y'all for help, but thought I'd post below what's going in a more coherent way. So, here it is if anyone can help.

I've been getting severe migraines and freaking about this. Finally went to the doctor yesterday as I've spent $300 on Imitrex in the past three weeks and as of yesterday had had a migrain, severe (9-10) for 36 hours. The Imitrex didn't help at all, and I'd taken the max dose for two days. My doctor gave me a shot of nubain, switched my seizure med to tegretol to try to prevent the headaches, and prescribed 15 lortabs to help until the tegretol started working. I'm taking the meds as prescribed. Three yesterday total, two this morning. Actually it says one at a time but that wouldn't even faze me with my tolerance, so I take two. What I'm worried about is that when I had endo I welcomed the pain because it allowed me to get pills. Now that I'm finally clean, I want to stay that way, and I'm having severe pain for real, pain that I CAN'T handle! I mean it's been sooo bad. I would much rather have no pain and no pills. Of course, I'll only have them for another day, but still. What is really scary is that I feel so good this morning after just one dose. I feel normal again, I have energy, I even have a slight buzz. For six weeks I've struggled daily to get back to normal and fought with all I have to be free of my addiction, and I've succeeded mostly. I've still been dealing with major depression, apathy, no energy, but had hope that it would pass. I've had cravings but never gave in or even really considered it. But I've had one health problem after the other and finally the migraines did me in, then after two little pills I feel like a million bucks again. I know that if I kept it up I would again be in misery, like I was at the end of my addiction when it wasn't even enjoyable. But right now that's hard to remember. So I wonder if after tomorrow I'm going to have to start all over again. I know I can't live as an addict. My husband was grilling me last night; he could tell something was different. But right now my head doesn't hurt, I'm not depressed, I'm about to clean my house...what's up with this? Why can't I feel "normal" without a pill, and why dear god did I have to get the migraines so bad that I needed it? I was winning the good fight! I'm scared. Please help me today not to take any if I don't truly, truly need it.
I feel like a failure. Will I ever be able to live a normal life? I've tried the recipe, been on it for a few weeks now. I'm on anti-depressants. Many times in the past weeks I thought that I don't care if I live or die, other than for my kids. Will I always feel this way? Of course, today I don't but that's because of the hydro. But I woke up with another migraine and it knocked it right out. I remind myself that last night my daughter hurt herself and while I was comforting her, she told me "Mommy, I feel so much better when you are around me. All you have to do is hug me and it makes everything better." Those babies are precious to me and I need to be there for them. But I know the depression and everything else is going to kick right back in. I would never have taken the pills if not for honest, severe pain. I believe that with all my heart. But why, after all this time, did I have to get TRUE pain? I've had at least 25 migraines in the past 35 days, and I reached my breaking point yesterday. Now I feel normal with one dose of hydro and I'm terrified. How can I go back to that black state I've been in for the past few weeks? It lifted for several weeks after my detox, then hit me again the past two weeks.
I'm so sorry this is so long; I'm really scared here and need support. Please, anyone, help me.
tlk/tex3/tracy

[skipper]

ok people, at last i have time:
been real busy and have not had time to even give everything a
good read. from what i've gathered a couple are having some issues with taking a couple of deserved pain relieveing blast off old Jones. even though i periodically detox, i could not survive at the constant high rate of pain i suffer from. i've drawn some conclussions:
1) god is likely a sadistic ________
2) pain is mandatory
3)suffering is optional

now let me ask all of you the same question i ask myself every-
day. any of you bother to think what you would do if you ever legitimately needed all of these opiates you have been  flooding your bodys with? i didn't...i bet no body else did either. score one up for old jones....ever deny yourself pain eliminating dope? well score another for old Jones.

SEE, YA' CAN'T BEAT JONES! he's like blind joe death...he knows
(always knows) when to show up, and it's always on his time.

i've said it before, some days ya' just gotta notch the belt
tight, pick up your step, and put your head way down. the only
way to do this is just do it. 'scuse me i gotta get my head down
and get trucking...

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[angst]

I've detoxed off some major drugs, a four year habit of Stadol NS, taking a bottle a day for the last 2 years.  I've kicked dilaudid so many times, I lost count.  I'd use for 3 months or 6 months and get caught by my ex, and kick at home alone.  The w/d from the first time on the methadone for 2 years going from 90mg to nil.  The methadone was the worst.  It lasted almost a month, but I was alright.  If I had to jump off the methadone,  I could not do it.  Once I had detoxed of methadone, and I had been going to NA meetings every day and night, I felt very good physically.  I lost weight, about 50lbs, and my skin looked so good.  I never had to deal with long w/d.  Even kicking the dilaudid at home in the easy chair.  I had stomach ills for a week and a half.  Then the pain starts in places I never knew I had for another two weeks.  Then I started feeling better.  I will stay on the methadone for another couple of months.  I have been able to turn around many things.  I needed the counselling and group.  Thanks to everyone on this forum.  You have helped me put things in perspective.  I hope you all do well with w/d's.
I hope I never know what protracted w/d is.  Tracy, you will do good.  Take it one day or hour or minute at a time.  Consciously relaxing as much as you can.  I hope I get a job soon.   I am out there looking.   I have to cook dinner, feed my pets, and water my garden.  I guess we are in another drought for a couple of weeks.  Thanks to you all for listening and caring,  Ava

[singer]

ive been on buprenex for 2 months. i had hernia surgery 1 year ago and have nerve damage with constant pain. i was on vics es 15 per day for one year. i know what its like to try and stop. the bups was prescribed for pain and completely blocked any cravings for the vics with no withdrs and helps with the pain. i am also going to pain manag getting injections to try and block the nerve. anyway i swear by the bups and hope to soon ween off. life is pretty much back to normal. good luck singer.

[OxyDout]

Where can you get Darvon??? only through a doctor, right?

[groovygirl]

yes, only thru a dr.  it sucks for pain tho - might as well take an aspirin.  do you need it for detox?

[tex3]

Guys -- Please check out the site below. Just take a sec and click on it; look at the picture and then decide if you want to read the story. It's really important. I've never in my life passed on a site, but this one really moved me. Tell me what you think. The photos alone will move you.


http://www.austin360.com/aas/specialreports/jacqui/index.html

[tex3]

Hi y'all. If you're around, my experienced friends, will you read my post higher up about my migraines and the prescription I got for Lortab? I'm scared here and need help. I tried to open a new topic but of course couldn't for the past two days. Any help if much appreciated! I feel so bad. tracy

[skipper]

gwh:
where to get darvon...good question. you have to have a Rx from
a md, dds, od, do, dvm,etc.
ya know there used to be a ton of these around 'cause they don't
seem to get too many people high or even relieve pain.

davon,darvocette, propoxephene, etc are all regulated under a C4,
so an rx shouldn't be much more difficult to valium. i think it's
use has fallen way off, except among the older folks. you could
ask your doctor...what's to lose? one thing to remeber, darvon
(propoxihene) does have an addiction potential (SO DOES  BUP) so
keep that in mind. the addition potential is very slight compared
to oxy or hydro-c.

yesterday i sarted a detox. i took .2 mg of bup at sunrise. i  
took another at lunch. my plan was to take another a bedtime,
but fell asleeep first.my wife got in  last evening and knew i
was detoxing before i ever woke to tell her. i guess about an
hour before i awoke, i got real twitchy. other than .5 mg of
klonipin, thats all i've taken. when i awoke, i took another of
bup, but will try to do nothing more. this isn't bad from a 150
mg. oxy a day habit. i seem to notice if i get on the supplements
in the recipe, and stay on them, my w/d are very much reduced
in severity. im a crusty old fart, tough from years of kicking
drugs much more powerful than oxy...iv morphine& dilaudid, smack,
just about every opiate you can find in a large drugstore or
clinic pharmacy. so....maybe the rules of abstenence syndrome are
not evenly applied. the most terrifying drugs to me are the stim-
ulants (coke, speed). like i said i'm an old fart (51). *you kids
ought to listen to me more carefully! with a little bit of luck,
you may last as long as me. of course, it would make a lot more sense to just get off of drugs. as WS Burroughs said, "clearly
opiate abuse is a push a pill of dope around the world with your
nose routine!" i seem to have committed my life to *observations
from the gutter,* but i have kept myself alive much longer than
the rest of the pack! (sometime all tell ya' the story about that
too!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[angst]

You said it and you said it good.  If w/d's killed me, I'd be dead a long time ago.  Mr. Jones is different, he is a demon all his own.  If I can deal with the abandonment issue of my ex and daughter going to Horn Island for 8 days without Mr. Jones knocking, busting my door down, I will know something inside of me has changed.  During the latter part of May,  I will be posting until you all want to run me off.
Thanks for the wisdom Skipper.

[OxyDout]

morning,

Groovy, it sort of is,..........what I mean is, I have been clean, however I feel like I'm experiencing a delayed withdrawal, is that possible?? I started getting the restless leg, tired ext.I don't know what the deal is but its really destroying my will power................... I need to find something that can pull me together otherwise, I feel like I'm gonna lose it.  I actually got 1 vicoden the other day and split it into 3 pieces, I thought it wouldn't get me high(which it didn't) but it would relax my leg, but it didn't help. Any words of wisdom??


Skipper, I'd love to hear the stories, how have you been? and stop referring to yourself as an old man, for christ sakes your 51!!!! haha. Anyway, I might try the Norufen that Dive had told me about, it only has a little codeine with ibuprofen.. I need to get something. I hope your doing well.

GWH

[tex3]

Hi G. How long have you been clean? I still get the restless leg, and it's been six weeks for me. It comes and goes. Cravings too. See my post above about my latest battle. You've been an inspiration to me here.

Many times I had to go to work in WDs. In fact, my second day on the job when I started at the Sheriff's Office, I went into major WD. I had to leave, said I had the flu. It was awful. I got some pills and went back the next day, fine. I know you've posted that you've had to do that, too.

How are things with you and your girlfriend? By the way, I've heard bananas are good for restless leg. Also anti-convulsive drugs. I think that's what's helping me now; I am epileptic and am on tegretol now, which is supposed to help with RLS too. Just started it yesterday, so will let you know how it works.

When I was on buprenex, I had no cravings and none of the delayed detox symptoms. I felt normal, except I had many of the same side effects as I did on other opiates. But I did not feel high and I could function fine. Is that an option for you?

[oh please already]

Your ok,calm down.I lost you email so send it again or call like i told you ***@****. Migragine suck and can drive you insane-stop worrying about what we are going to call your taking the vic and lets focus on making you feel better,Labels really dont change anything,you can debate forever on a relaspe vs pain management so DONT WAST YOUR TIME>   we just need to focus on how to stop the pills from creeping back in your life,I gatta go feed em, i will be back later so hold on    laura

[OxyDout]

I don't think anything but cold turkey is an option for me. I don't have a doctor that would prescribe me bup, or any darvon, nor do I want to hunt one down, I don't have the time or the money, you know?? I really wish there was a way for me to get a few so I could be done with this already.  I wouldn't mind suffering, but I always have to work so I have to be productive. If you have any ideas at all, please let me know, and thank you for your kind words.

GWH

[groovygirl]

you've come so far.  taking a couple pills to "get you thru," is only going to set you back...you'll have to start all over again.  there is something called post withdrawal syndrome (i think that's what it's called), so what you are experiencing isn't uncommon. if you have insurance thru your work, maybe you could use it to get into some kind of out-patient program or see an addiction specialist.  i KNOW you don't want to do either of those things, but aren't they worth a try before you put a pill in your mouth?

it's probably going to be hard for awhile still....try to hang in there - you have been doing SO GREAT!!! you can do this!

[hippy]

good to to everyone posting,  i mean it's really nice to see
everyone back and posting like one big famly.
ash i glad to see your post , i had not seen ya for a while
was hoping you were doing good.
gwh always good to see ya posting, thanks.

the sun is out and it's i great day.

enjoy the day to all.