As you can read from my other entries (I'm brand new at this site) I am with you. When you wake up know that you are not alone even though you feel hopelessly alone...I know how you feel. If you freakin beat a 4 year dope sniiffer you WILL beat this. You will. I am trying to get through the former and feel HOPELESS. But, I have done it before and have to do it again. We have to get through the discomfort to finally wake up one morning after having slept soundly all night anxiety free. It will happen. It has to. Do not give up and I wont either. Lets try this together.
Sounds good! I just want to be free of this and thank you for offering to do this with me. Maybe we can check in with eachother!
i hate it everytime i see that some unsuspecting person was duped into believing that ultram is NOT addictive. what a load of ****!!! and damn the gulible doctors who believe all the b.s. pharmacy reps tell them, and the oodles of samples they leave.
i too have interstitial cysitis. it is a painful condition but in my case i was fortunate that i did not have to take narcotics for it. they did fill my bladder up with this god-awful smelling stuff once a month that came out of my pores for DAYS afterwards! i would get home and the kids would open up the windows and leave the house until it aired out! it was that bad!!
ultram w/d is pretty typical of any narcotic w/d's that you have already probably had. i was on ultram for only two weeks and spent three days in some very unpleasant w/d's, esp. for a drug that isn't "addictive". you will get through it!! you were clean for four years and that in itself should show you that you have what it takes. i know that it sucks, but there really is nothing else that can be done. taper down off the ultram, use the thomas recipe (someone post it please~) and everyone here will be with you in spirit.
on a more personal note: i have been in a custody battle with my ex over my ten yr. old son. the father had cirrohsis of the liver, end stage and last week had a TIA (a small stroke) to make a long story short, he died on monday, memorial day and i was left with the task of telling my young son that his father was dead. at first i thought, no, I KNEW, i would need narcotic help just to get through this... how else could i do it? yea, right! well, i have made it through the last few days without putting anything into my body (other than too much coffee and smokes!) i am pretty amazed right now! and grateful that i found this board and found out about rational recovery... i feel sad and empty inside but i feel strong and i have seen a glimpse of the person that i am becoming. for the ultram girl, i had 8 years clean in NA, started three NA groups in the atlanta area. i relapsed about 6 years ago and have a few days over five months right now. oh well, life goes on, you can pick up right where you left off my friend... and you will! :-)
hi kim, welcome to this fourm, my name is michael
and i have been here for 16 months, i have been clean
now for 13 months , thanks to the support and knowledge
i gotten here at this fourm, i was clean in na for many years
untill i had to take pain med for medical reasons, i was clueless about how addictive they were and how difficult the withdrawls are, and that includes ultram, i was taken
vikes and precs and ultram. with the support of the good folks here at this fourm, i learned about the severe depression that comes with the with drawls from the pain meds and also the
almost complete lack of energy .
i was introduced to what is known as thomas's receipe, a list of vitamines and minerals, alonf with something to sleep and imodium., in any event i felt the same way you do ,when i found this fourm. Read all the post here you can and post any questions, im sure you will find the answers tou need in order
to get your life back. feeling hopeless is normal.
you are in the a good place.i tried to quit the pain meds on my own , but kept failing , , looking back it was because of the depression , hopelessness, and lack of energy, which the receipe helped more then i can express in words.
Amber, im sorry to here of you and your sons loss,
my prayers are with you and your son.
What is the Thomas recepie? It sounds good. Also, I know what the doc is saying, but it sure is hard not to be upset! I am working on it because I know it does no good, but this is not something I can just say "oh well" too. I almost died with my addiction! So to accidently throw back into addiction is not just an oops. Mostly, I know I will get through this but what about the next person? What if it throws someone back into addiction that they can not get out of? What if they OD? I have to get this out and maybe I am just venting so I'm sorry to everyone for this. I am still mad as hell! I don't want to be but I just am. As far as being told about holding resentments, it's not about that so much as " how can I SERIOUSLY trust a doctor again to give me some meds that who knows what the hell they do? Especially when you have kids? Maybe I'm mad at the drug company too. That the doctors had no idea and they gave it to me in good faith. I don't think they would intentionaly hurt me. How do I get past this anyway? Just vent? I don't know how to get rid of this. I am going to bed, maybe I'll feel better in the morning. Sorry again everyone, it is just hard you know?
Find a Suboxone certified Doctor and get on it asap. I felt the way you described and it cured me totally. Good luck and well wishes.
I've copied and pasted the Recipe for you.Thomas Detox Recipe
PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas
This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.
If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.
For the Recipe, You'll need:
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.
During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.
At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.
With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.
As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.
PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.
kim, my younger brother, died of a mix of herion and xanax
so death is something as addicts we know about,
addiction is a life and death situation, have lost many freinds
to drugs, so many i can not keep count.
oxic posted the receipe.
this ihow i took it.
l-tyrosine 500mg caps 8 a day in the morning, 4 a day weeks after.
b-6 100mg 2 a day in morning
vitamins A -C and e
zinc, copper , phousphous , magneese
a strong multy vitamine
imodium for the runs and shits week 1
valium or xanax for sleep week 1 taper down as the week progresses
lots of hot baths and soaks for restless leg and body
lots of water, and gatoraide during the day for lost electolites.
bannas help with restless leg (potasium)
some people suggest 5htp for depression 1 a day weeks after 1st.
5htp also is good at night for sleep 4 caps.
some people also say benadryl is good for sleep.
you can start the receipe right away, the pils deplete our
body of most of its nutrients, the shits and runs make this a lot worse that is why the imodium is si important, loss of
nutrients and elctrolites make the with drawls a lot worse
then they have to be.
i have fpound that the l-tyrosine and b6 has been the most important for me.they sort of blocked out the pains of withdrawls.
pace hippy. ps. try not to fall into the trap of being to dramatic, we all know this is about living or just exsisting
in a way where the pills just suck the life right out of ya. and ya wake up everyday and feel like you 100 years old.
tho the whole receioe is important.
Watup Hippy? I see your doing good as usual. Good to see ya post!
whats up with you bill,
hows life treating you, i hope well.
Like is Grand my brother! I am getting a divorce and working those life problems out and you know at 45 I realized there is a God after all. LOL He must be real if I made it and I have. I haven't ever been this happy Hippy! After living a lie for 10 years I figured what the hell, I'll be truthful and you know what happened? People stopped asking me questions they really didn't wanna hear the answer to. The truth will set you free brother, Thanks God I heard his voice in time! Peace Brother!
Damn dude wish i would have learned that pill regime when i was kicking pills the first time on my own, (failed, but made it the second time and have been clean for 10months now). The only thing that COULD be a problem is the benzo's. Although for SHORT term use as you state benzo's would be a great way to get out of withdrawls I think you might not be able to grasp one concept many of us here have had a SERIOUS problem with, that problem is a total lack of self discipline when it came to drugs. A good illustation of this point is once I made out of rehab and began taking Remeron and Zyprexa, one day I took not one but 2 Zyprexas just to see if I could get some kind of buzz, (It worked too, it felt like I just took 4 antihystimes and I was spacey for 5 hours).
Im NOT nocking your program man, but I would SUGGEST one measure of security, (this needs to be done BEFORE begining W/D, while your still high on (Insert favorite Opiate here).
Give the bottle of Benzo's to a trusted friend and give them specific instructions on how and when to give you them, also make DAMN sure he or she knows when to CUT YOU OFF, and make sure to tell him that even if you beg, offer money, or your first born, after the cutt off time he or she is to DESTROY the remaining script.
If you do this, you might make it thru, but there are some other problems that will rear there ugly head once you get out of Primary WDs and start P.A.W.S (Post Accute Withdrawls Syndrome).
Here is my recipe for AFTER you complete Oxic's plan and are now OUT OF WITHDRAWLS.
Antidepressant -- normaly Remeron (helps with sleep too)
Vitamins and lots of them, if you want use Oxic Vitamin recipe.
Imodium on ocassion
A SUPPORT GROUP WITH A SPONSOR -- You will need help STAYING clean, dont for a minute think that once out of withdrawls you just wake up and everything is back to the day before you took your first Opiate it dont work that way. NA worked for me, however NA is not for everyone so search around till you find something you like and stick with it. YOU NEED TO ATTEND AN N.A. MEETING EVERYDAY FOR THE FIRST 90 DAYS OF SOBRIETY! If you choose an alternate plan go to ALL there meetings.
Also it might be a good idea to turn over your finances to someone you trust for about 6 months that way you won't be tempted to go out and spend your hard earned money at the dope mans house again.
Also check with this group, and please HELP OTHERS here and anywere you see an addict that wants to get clean. I wear my former addiction like a badge of honor, I dont mind telling people that I was an addict (or as an NA member am a recovering addict). I help as many people as I can get clean and stay clean.
If you need any help or have any questions you can either ask them here or email me at
You can get thru ANY addiction
My above comment is not aimed soley at Oxic, just my suggestions to him about having the benzo's doled out by a friend the rest is basicly for KimH and anyone else trying to quit. Having medical problems rear there ugly head and being in pain is tough on us RX addicts, its the single highest reason we relapse, I would suggest a Primary Care MD that has a background dealing with former addicts, that way he might be able to steer you clear of this happening again.
Sorry for the confusion(oxic is my home computer handle), the Recipe was formulated by a good friend of mine here, Thomas03.
I was just copying and pasting it for Kim, who requested it.
When i detoxed off percocet last summer, after tapering, i used all the ingredients of the Thomas Recipe, except the benzo..............I just didn't want to go there. I think a part of me wanted to punish myself(you know, really feel the hurt) for working my way up to 20+ percs/day(for years).
On the 19th of June, it will be 10 months for me also. Congrats to you my friend, on your 10 months!!!
I'm still here(as i've said a million times), cause i want to get the word out, that conquering this beast is very doable and sooooo worth it. It wasn't too long ago that i felt that hopeless/powerless feeling, and thinking that i'd never get off of these lit'l buggers. I still remember waking up many days(of course feeling like absolute ****) and saying to myself, "today i'm really going to cut back". Well as the day unfolded, thinking i was doing rather well, i'd do a tally of my intake............only to find the number still around 12-15. **** that felt demoralizing. But, keeping at it, finally paid off........BIGTIME. I keep telling people, to just keep working at it, and it will come.
I've enjoyed reading your posts, and wish you continued strength in staying in recovery Rodster.
hey rodster, hippy here,
i have been here at this fourm for 16 months and am now clean
for 13 months, off 15 vikes or percs a day,
i was clean in na from 1984 to 19 99
i have been goin to na since i was 16 and now i am 43.
when i got clean back in 84 i was useing speed and qualudes,
so when i had to take pain meds for shoulder pain and rotator
cuff operations, i took them as prescribed for about a year,
but then my brother overdosed and i started abuseing the meds
i was un aware that they were so addictive and that with drawls were so difficult to deal with,
when i founfd this form and was introduced to the recipe
it helped me get clean agian, it helped with the depresson and
lack of energy.
needless to say i am a big supporter of the thomas's recipe,
but as you mentioned the part of the recipe dealind with sleep in the 1st week and taking xanax or valium, has been talked about a lot here, some people do not even take that part of the recipe.
it has be discussed , reminding people to taper down of of them if you do chose to use them in the 1st week of detox,
also that tey cause depression, and if you have depression
they can make it a lot worse.
most people here know that i am a na member, but it has been my experence here that mist of the people here at this fourm
are not into the 12 step programs ,
it seems rthat most have trid na or aa and say it is not for them, some do the smart recovery thing. others do what ever seems to work for them.
i just try to bea good example to them, and only mention na if they ask.
it does say in the na basic text DON'T GIVE ADVICE UNLESS ASKED,
OR THE NEWCOMMER WILL LOSE THIER RESPECT FOR YOU.
even tho most of the people here are not na, they still have a
lot of great informationand tons of experence, with pain meds,
and lots of other meds and ther consaquences
good advice, however anyone that kicks dope still needs some sort of support system after they finish WDs, thats where i suggest NA. I have to admit tho that NA is a little to "structured" for most, and even for me, but any addiction support group or system can work, its a lifestyle change not just quitting.
Do you think Michael's recipe would work for someone detoxing slowly off methadone? Anyone know what does help?
The recipe is basicly for anyone going thru Withdrawls from what i see of it, its pretty sound advice, remember tho no amount of vitamins/meds are gonna make you feel %100.
Hey guys, Thanks alot for the recepie. Wow, so that really helps huh? At first when it was mentioned I thought (oh yah, like a bunch of vitamins are gonna help me out) but the way everyone is talking and supporting it, it sounds like it really helps! I will go to meetings. I like the steps because it gets all that
messed up head @%#& out of ya. I get depressed when I first detox. I don't mind AA because I do believe in God and the spiritual part helps me alot. I am trying to finish my finals through all this so I need to focus. I'm just finishing up a course for college that I am right at the end of, and don't they pile it on high when it is the end. I'm keeping up though. I surprised myself! Tomorrow it is due, then I can just die for a week. I really want to get through this! That is why I'm working so hard in school, to live a good life. Does this place have a user list? so you can use pictures or learn about people? It seems weird getting to know people and not knowing what they look like or much about them. I'm kinda new to this. I went with my sister and we got some new pictures, I like them so I've been sending them to other students on line, and sending them all over the place. I probably shouldn't do that huh? I don't even know who I am talking too! LOL! Feel free to answer, If not I'll just drive myself to the luney barn for talking to myself. KimH
Kim... you have come to the right place! There is a lot of caring here. A lot of info and knowledge to gain in seeking hellp with addiction is available in many places. For me, the support and safe environment that Na and AA give to my life are critical. There is no where in my life i can go to a group of people and talk about my inner most feelings, character defects, pain, anger, grief, etc. and feel still loved and accepted. And as you said, working on my screwed up thinking thru the 12 steps is literaly mind altering in the most positive sense.
Amber dear... my prayers go out to you and your son. Plz contact me if you want to talk. You can call or e-mail.
Hippe and bmac...just love you guys! hugs...and a big kiss on your cheeks!
On my cheek? I am hurt! Bmac
It is so nice to see that you have made it through. And are here now able to help others through their own hard times.
That is what it is all about, others helping others.
That is what this forum is based on, and it is people like you whom help keep that ideaology intact.
Glad to see you are doing so well...
The "new" Suzie sounds so much more collected and thoughtful in all your posts. Good job...
Welll Bill...you might have to come to Tallahassee for me to answer that. Ha!
Chezz hon it is great to hear from you! I have been following you here as much as possible. Would love to hear how u r doin...E-mail me if ya can...***@****
Thx for the compliment. For me and all of us...Many miles to go...and then some!