Barbiturate Addiction Help

[Connie51]

There are quite a few of us who are struggling with this addiction and are looking for others who have dealt with this addiction and have some knowledge of it. Because of the chance of siezures during W/D it is a frightening thing for all of us and many have gotten different opinions from different doctors. At what amount and what length of time of abuse, would one have to worry about W/D being dangerous? Not all of us are able to go into detox, nor do we have access to an addictionologist.
The most common abuse being Fioricet/Fiorinal etc.
Anyone out there who has any ties with the medical community would be greatly appreciated by us with any info they may have.
Everyone of course we would love to hear from.
It is difficult to W/D from any drug but putting your life at risk makes it really frightening. To suffer for days and then have it pass with no harm to your health would be a relief...hard yes, but then the physical end over. I know Benzo's have this same risk.
Is the siezure risk exagerated? Is it just an excuse, unless of course you are taking 20-30 of them a day.
We (myself and others on the fioricet post) would appreciate hearing from you all.
Thank you and God Bless (there are a lot of great people on here)
Connie

[FiorinalJR]

FOR MORE ON BARBITURATE ADDICTION, SEE THE "FIORICET" SECTION BELOW!

[Witchywoman]

Well it's *good* to hear some good news about epidurals!  I really am hoping it works, and I do trust the Doc who is doing it. It is the same Doc who did my back surgery, and he is kind and explains everything in great detail. He puts up with my non compliance and still lets me keep being his patient! lol  

Thomas thanks for the heads up that they may give me demorol.  I have been taking buprenorphine for my pain this weekend, as I hurt but don't want to go the hydro route. But if they intend to give me a shot of demorol, I have to not take the bup, because it is a mu agonist as well as antagonist and the combination of both in my bloodstream could make me very uncomfortable! Yikes.  Disaster narrowly averted.  

It's funny, though I'm still scared of narcotics, I'm starting to be able to have a respectful, honest relationship with them. I have truly needed to take them once in a while lately, and while I still don't want to know where the meds are, I feel like I'm still
'in recovery'. I keep dreading the compulsion to get high will return, but so far, it hasn't.  A friend of mine in NA as well as many of my forum friends have helped me realize that taking the meds when my pain makes me unable to function is very different from what I used to do, swallow 7 or 8 at a time just to feel normal.  Yeah, it was that bad toward the end of my abuse. August 26, 2001 was my first day totally clean.

all for now..thanks for being there. You guys are precious old friends and I value both your opinions big time.

love,
WW

[Thomas02]

Hello, my good friend. I had the epideral steroid injection in 93 for a disk bulge. They gave me a shot of Demerol before the procedure. I was sweating bullets over someone inserting an unbelievably thin and long needle into my spine, and was glad to get the shot. The doc said that Demerol was used because it had a pronounced muscle relaxant effect that made the procedure inherently safer. And I did get almost immediate relief from the epideral. I hope the same for you, o dear and wise one.

Thomas

[groovygirl]

hi - how are you?  it's good to see you active again here...although it is turning into a crazy place.  i don't understand what is happening.  i saw a post about your having a great website...could you post the address?  i'm curious, and i thought it might be about paganism?

[Witchywoman]

Hi there! I thought it might be you, the old Butterbeans. Very nice to see you back.  :-)

I don't know if going for an epidural would help you.  I happen to be going in for one this coming monday. I've refused them in the past, my chiropractor didn't think it was a good idea, but my pain is so high at this point that I'm going to give it a try.
I think I've mentioned they are recommending fusion, so I'm giving the epidural a try to see if it will help me avoid further surgery.

I know lots of people have been helped a bit by epidurals, but there are others who say the steroids are hard on your body and cause other problems. I'd encourage you to research it really well first, and then ask yourself if it is worth the try.

love,
WW

[Witchywoman]

Hi groovy, yeah, things are getting wierd around here. I just made a post up above about how it doesn't feel very good to me to be here now that it appears I'm under suspicion of being an imposter. Maybe I'm just taking it the wrong way. I'm imperfect and overly sensitive at times.

Yep, I do have a website.  A long time ago I posted the url here publicly, then was told by medhelp that was a mistake, leaving myself that open (it has a lot of very personal information)
I'll gladly share it with you via private email.  My email address is ***@****   If you write me I"ll send you my url, and there is some information about Paganism and links to other good sites.  www.witch-vox.com is one of my favorite sites as well.

Thanks for your support, and hey, how are you doing? Are you still on the bup?
I got active here again once I got prescribed oxy by my Doc when my back got way out of hand. I took it for a week, then stopped due to intense fear of readdiction.  I've had to take some norco for level 9 pain a few times lately, and I need a place to discuss my fears and feelings about this, and also a place to stay accountable for my addiction and my actions. My husband has the pills and I don't even want to know where they are.  It's very scarey though. So far, the Dragon has not shown up, by some miracle, but I don't fool myself that I am immune from getting stuck on that horrible road again if I"m not very honest and careful.

love,
WW

[Witchywoman]

My doc said I need to bring someone to drive me but I'll be fine to go to work. I don't think they are going to sedate me. A friend of mine here at work had one done and they didn't sedate her. She said it wasn't very painful and it helped her a lot.
Since my pain is scortching these days, I'm actually really looking forward to getting some relief via the epidural. I hope it works and will let you know.

love,
WW

[Sugarbeens]

Do you have to take off work for a few days after an epidural?  I know my doc said that you have to bring someone with you to drive you home. Do they sedate you? Good luck and I hope it relieves some of your pain.

[Sugarbeens]

Hi there old friend!  Let me know how your epidural goes!  Glad you are trying it before me.  I too, have been reading this site everyday and am confused as what the heck is going on. It sounds like from reading everything that Chezz thinks there is an imposter on the site, possibly a DEA agent.  People are becoming paranoid, me being one.  I came back and started posting again because I need the support and like and try to support others here. I don't think I will continue to post, if I do it won't be often.  No one here is doing anything illegal that i can see anyway, so why would anyone worry?  We are all pain sufferers, some more than others, but, all just want to help each other.  I was leary about posting on the internet, because as someone else put in another post today, they are a chiropractor and we are all just human and looking for help and support.  I too have a family, good job I love and do well, so don't want my identity to be subject to scrutiny.  Good luck WW with the epidural.  Let me know how it goes.  I am very nervous about trying it.  Hope everyone else are doing OK and having a good day.  Love to all.

[Sugarbeens]

Hi Skipper.  Yes I was Butterbean!  However, when I tried to get back on the forum as Butterbean, it said that name was already taken!! wouldn't let me.  But , I am the same old Butterbean!!! Hope you are doing better!  thanks for the response.  Have a great day!

[skipper]

hey girls:
about epidurals..... before i ever had any surgeryon my neck i had somewhere between 9 and 15 over a 12 mo period! the first few
worked out real well,and then they just quit working. the ones that did work were kind of wierd....they seemed to make every kind of pain i'ld evern had with my neck come on all at once. this lasted for several days and then like magick ALL of my neck and arm pain (and i really do mean ALL) was gone. i woke up one morning and it was gone. this lasted for 5-6 weeks the first couple of times. after that they lasted for 10 days. then they just stopped working.

the cortezone and lidocane are real hard your body, but an ethical "shooter" will never let the frequency or amount cause the trouble you hear the horror storys about.

my advice...try it out! it might work for a while. while it is
working you will have the much needed time to make the decisions
about fussions and other options. don't let what i said about the
initial discomfort scare you off. i know that both of you have
suffered far worse.
hey keep an angel on your shoulders
kip

[FiorinalJR]

GS, at the time I went into detox, I was taking about 12 to 14 pills per day.  I can't believe they didn't give you anything when you went in.  You could have gone into seizures!

Lucky for you that didn't happen.  When you do see the doc, be honest about how much you take.  They see this all the time, and nothing will shock them, trust me!

jr

[skipper]

Catuf:
about the exercise thing....quit talking about and just do it. the
most difficult part about any regular form of exercise is just get-
ing started!

because i am an addict i've learned some things about myself. one
of these things i've learned about kip is that as long as he is
pissing and moaning, you know he isn't doing what he is supposed to
be doing!

for me (as well as you (if your an addict)) the most difficult
thing is starting to exercise. the second most difficult part of
exercising is knowing when to stop! it figures. only addicts can
take something good an really over do it.

get to it! have fun! don't over do it!

and keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Witchywoman]

I was prescribed neurontin for my pain and it made me feel *horrible*, so out it went.  yech.  It felt worse than elavil to me.  Maybe I didn't give it enough time but it didn't affect my pain.

WW

[Chezz]

To all the Slippers and people on the barbituates.

I really feel for all of you. That is such a bumber that you have to go through so much to come off of this drug.

Like I told you guys before. That is what they gave me a couple weeks ago instead of putting me back on the other meds. Well the fioricet made me drunk as a skunk and didn't do anything for the pain.

This is why I flush any and all meds that do not help. It is not WORTH IT.

I truly feel sorry for you guys and hope that you can get the help you need and that it doesn't affect the rest of your life. You guys have tought me so much just by reading your posts.

The #1 thing I have learned is to take you meds as they are prescribed for the shortest duration necessary to get you back on your feet.

Thanks. And I hope you will get through this.
Chezz

[The Golden Slipper]

JR - When you were in the detox for 21 days how many pills were you taking daily at that point?

I'm just curious because when I did a 5 day inpatient back in 1994 they didn't give me any drugs for withdrawal.  At that point I was taking 6-8 fioricets daily which is what I take now. I guess I am lucky that I haven't gone beyond that amount.

When I left the detox I had a horrible headache and anxiety for about a week before slowly starting to feel better. I have a very limited supply of fioricet right now which I am tapering with.  The sooner I get to a knowledgable doctor the better off I will be.

I am at the point where she can call all my doctors and pharmacies.  If that's the only way to stop this then it's definitely time.

Thanks again for the encouraging words and good luck to you

Golden Slipper

[FiorinalJR]

They are right - barb withdrawal is the worst.  I went thru a 21 day in-patient detox (for Fiorinal.Fioricet/Esgic) ten years ago.  Others in detox were there for street drugs and alcohol mostly.  While most were off there "withdrawal meds" within a week, I was on Phenobarbital - decreasing doses everyday - until Day 21, when I checked out.  They let me out and told me to take Tylenol for the migraines (not much help at all).

For me, it didn't work.  Even with 21 days of being free of Fioricet, etc., I was having horrible cramps, couln't sleep, concentrate, or work.  I was a mess. My PCP tried s few things, then put me back on limited qty's of Fioricet, which of course didn't stay limited for long.

Ten years later (up to 6 weeks ago) I was up to 18 - 20 Fioricets a day.  Every day.  I hit bottom, and started cutting back, drastically, on my own.  Even reducing by a couple per day was pure hell for me.

I finally got a new PCP who immediately sent me to a great Neurologist - who specialized in Headaches and also Addiction to pain killers.  She decided that in house detox was not for me, as I was a functioning addict.  And, she feltr that in most cases, the docs in detox just do not understand how severe barb addiction really is, or how to treat it.

My doc put me on a tapering program.  I am now down to 8 Fioricets a day, and going down to 7 this weekend. SHe also has me on Neurontin - it stop the seizures, most of the withdrawal symptons, helps you sleep, and also has been found to prevent headaches and other pain.  I take 4 a day, and have had no bad side effects.  I can work, play, and I feel fine.  Just a little jumpy for a couple of days every time I step down one F-tab.

I also have Amerge (a triptan) for when I do getr migraines, and it really helps.

So, please get some help.  Detox may work for you, or finding a good doc who will support you.   But if you do it this way, you have to tell your family and friends.  You have to be honest witrh your doctor(s) - and only get the stuff from one.  Mine is checking with other docs and pharmacies to keep me honest - I had to okay this.  On my Fioricet scrips, she writes "tapering slowly from Fioricet addiction".

Find a doc that you can trust, trust yourself, and you can do it.  You will feel crappy for a week or so when you start, but much much better later.

Keep posting, and we'll give you support!

[Chezz]

Like I said. I just woke up, IT IS TOO EARLY for this!
I finally got some sleep, incase you were wondering. The night before I didn't get ANY sleep. And I couldn't even nap yesterday. SO I wasn't feeling too good.
Chezz

[The Golden Slipper]

Chezz - Thanks for the encouraging words to all us barb addicts. I think although we like different types of pills all of us here have something in common.  We are addicts!!! The feelings and the compulsions are the same.

Unfortunately, in our situation I don't know if the "Thomas Recipe" would really help. It sounds like it really helps alot for the opiate addicts. I am just waiting to see this additionologist and praying I can get through this.

This forum really helps alot.  I don't post alot but just reading about other people's struggles and triumphs over this horrible illness really helps.

I attend an AA meeting on Wednesday evening which I find very comforting.  Last night I was a little upset because one of the speakers said she believes that AA is only for alcoholics. I really felt bad afterward like I was not welcome there because I happen to be a prescription drug addict.  I mean don't we all suffer from the same horrible compulsion no matter what our addiction (opiates, benzos, barbs or alcohol).

I have never really been a drinker but when I talk to an alcoholic I can certainly relate to that horrible feeling of craving that they feel for the first drink.

Anyway, sorry to ramble on just want to wish everyone best of luck in their struggle (No matter what the pills are that trigger you addiction).

Have a pleasant evening

Golden Slipper

[Connie51]

Thank you all for your responses! It is so great how eveyone jumps in to help. Please excuse my poor spelling of seizures, I guess I took the "i after e except afer c" too seriously! I also never take the time to re-read or do spell check!


That is upsetting what you mentioned Golden Slipper about last night at the AA meeting. I had mentioned that sort of thing in a couple of my posts.In NA also I have heard they do not want you using at all, even tapering when attending the meetings.They want you clean. Kind of makes you feel lost with no place to go. There should be no judgement, especially when someone is sincere.This is not putting down either of them, they are a Godsend to thousands of people.

The truth is,like you said, an addiction is an addiction!

In May when I was detox for 5 days, when I went in I had been taking 8 to 9 Fioricet a day for years. They stopped it cold turkey and started giving me low doses of valium towards the middle of the second day. When the shakes began or my blood pressure started going up, the valium took it away. By day 5 I did not need anything.

Because I do not want to enter detox again (twice in one year) I want to do it on my own. I have been given the valium (only enough for withdrawls) but I just would like so much more information to make sure I am doing the right thing.
The very scariest part is.....you are not going to believe this. The doc I got the valium from told me to JUST STOP the fioricet and take the valium to prevent seizures. Like it was nothing.
This is WHY I am on this forum. I was told many different things by different doctors. Which one is right??? I feel that those who have been there or know someone who has...are the best source of information other than if you are lucky enough to find an addictionologist.

Thank you again everyone....thank you for caring!
Stay the good people you are.
Connie

[Sugarbeens]

Hi ya'll.  I am glad I read this today about Neurontin.  My doc just asked me if I wanted to try this along with my narcotics.  He said the seizure meds help some people with the pain.  I told him not right now.  He asked if I was taking anything else besides the vics and percosets.  I said "no".  He has given me sleeping pills before, I quit taking them.  He gave me Paxil, I quit that and also Lorazapam.  I kept thinking, I don't really want to be on narcotics, but, that is all I need.  I hate taking meds, so i only want to take what I really need.  I am glad you guys talked about how it made you feel.  Have either of you tried the Epidural with steroids.  He asked if I wanted to give that a try.  Should I?  I also have the  option now of some surgery, but, I will refuse that.  If they had offered when I was first hurt in 78, I would have jumped on it.  Not to scare anyone, but, I have 2 clients that are now paralyzed after going in for back surgery!!!!!!!!!  I know it can work, but, now that I can deal with the pain with narcotice, I will do this and just hope and pray I will not abuse too often.  Hope both of you are doing OK and that Skipper you aren't in too much pain from your surgery.  Love to all.

[skipper]

sugerbeens:
was you once known here as butterbeans? or has my memory gone to
mush again. anyhow you remind me a lot of butterbeans. i used to do
the epidurals...but ther is so little left of my spine they don't really have anthig to shoot into now. my expierence was they were effective the first couple of times and then quit working...ah well
at least the people here don't do that!

gots to get my beauty sleep
keep an angek on your shoulder

[puma]

Skip,

I was initially prescribed Neurontin for anxiety, seizures and insomnia. It also apparently has some anti-depressant, OCD, and attention deficit reduction qualities to it. Then they found it reduces deep nervous system pain in some people.

I felt pretty good on it, but it did not control the seizures or pain all that well. It is meant to be taken with other anti-seizure drugs for hard to control conditions. It made me sleep well though.

Later,I switched to Klonopin because it was more effective for anxiety and seizures. The only drawback with Klonopin is the high dose needed and the withdrawals are a killer if it comes to that. Neurontin has no withdrawals, so long as you taper it over a week or so to avoid seizures. That is typical of any anti-seizure med.

The other drug mentioned I never even heard of.

An old bottle of Neurontin is what saved my butt from the DT'S last February after a cut off from the Klonopin and Codiene. After almost one month I still did not fully come out of it until they put me back on the Klonopin however. Then I just tapered the Neurontin over three days. I still have a full bottle of 800 mg's of old Neurontin hanging around. I know it is not good to save old meds, but I do just in case of future DT'S. You never know what may happen when you are dependant on a drug and the doc moves or something. Then it's slash/n/crash as I like to call it.

Take care,

Chatahan

[CATUF]

Good morning all:

     Day 18 here - I think I've made as much progress as I'm going to make w/o getting back into regular exercise.  I don't know why I'm always so reluctant to start, once I do I get addicted to the exercise and just feel like hell if I go just 3 or 4 days without.  I wonder if I actually feel as bad right now as I feel during "exercise withdrawal"? I.e. is that feeling just a return to "normal," which seems awful in comparison to the glow-of-health-feeling of regular exercise or is it something else?  


Listen not to the Sirenes . . .

CATU