Boy, I feel like crap

[Virginia Paramedic]

I have had a prior addiction problem to everything from Vicodin to Diladid. I got off the stuff, but due to problems from gastric by-pass sx, I have uncontrolable diarreha. I now have to take Paregoric, which has Morphine in it. ( I have tried EVERY OTC and Rx out there besides Paregoric. )

I feel myself 'slipping' back into 'liking' narc's. But I have to have it so I don't have an accident on the job or at home.

Any Ideas?

[percsnomas]

There was an interview on PBS with Dr. Steve Hyman(Addiction Doc.), and the following question was posed to him:

Bill Moyers: "" If addiction is about learning, why doesn't the addict learn that withdrawal in certain cases is so painful, so abominable, so awful that the brain says, ' I don't want to go through that again, so i won't use.'""

Dr. Hyman:  "" One of the really striking things about human beings is that we have a lot of trouble thinking about long term risk. We are very short term creatures indeed.  Also, you see, withdrawal is very painful, but it's actually not associated with the drug.  What's associated with the drug is pleasure and relief.  The withdrawal syndrome is occurring in isolation and without the drug.  Indeed, it is accompanied by intense craving for the drug.  So the withdrawal DOES NOT IN ANY WAY EXTINGUISH OR DO AWAY WITH THE IMPULSE, THE CRAVING, THE DESIRE FOR DRUGS.  One of the important challenges to us as a species, is how we can figure out ways of dealing with our inability to conform our behavior to our long-term best interest.""


The transcript for that interview is a most interesting read.


percs

[Thomas03]

You and Nancy sure know how to butter my toast!

Thomas

[Thomas050]

Thomas030
Hi, yes, true I am not speaking from experience when I asked if the w/d one went thru would be a deterrent. But if you struggled thru it and got past the worst of it (the physical) then I would imagine thinking about having to go thru that again would be somewhat of a deterrent. It's a logical assumption, but yea I know logic doesn't necessarily rule in cases of addiction.
I have been taking pain meds for almost 6 mos, and yea, there is a couple days between where I do notice the w/ds. Many report of not being able to sleep. I never really thought that sounded so bad, until I found out *why* it is you can't sleep. I would imagine when i decide to stop if I get past the physical w/d that I will not want to go thu it again, and that it will be a deterrent, but yea, it remains to be seen.
Regards,
T050

[Chezz2]

Nice to see you posting again.

I am sorry to say Expillman, but withdrawals are about the least deterent for an addict to stop. Otherwise, guess what?, we wouldn't have addicts here who have been posting for over a year continue to go through the cycle of withdrawals, getting meds, withdrawals, getting meds, ect. ect. ect.
So you can throw your idea of withdrawals being the almighty deterent of stopping...
It doesn't work that way, and hasn't...
And you speaking of working in pain management(of all people) should know that.

Kudos to Hippee, whom said it all in one post.

Most people spent the time to get to know the people that have been here for quite a while before spouting off medical literature which means nothing in the end when it doesn't have **** to do with what most of us have been through.

Chezz

[Rodster]

This is something i know a little about, I have suffered with diarreha for years, I can honestly say that the only two drugs that ever controlled it were when i was a full blown addict and taking lortab, and Immodium AD, when i detoxed in september my bowels went friecking nuts, but the immodium helped alot, it will take awhile once you come off any opiate for your system to stabilize (in your case stabilize will mean just normal diarreha not all the time) give the Immodium a chance, if that dont work ask your doc for alternatives to opiates to help controll it.

[theGolden1]

Dear Exman ... you are very brave to cut off the Oxy's just like that. I just wanted to say that the depression is different for everyone. It's got to take a month to feel decent (mentally) but I wouldn't project. You may not feel like doing a dance everyday and maybe a little tired .... but just knowing it's a drug reaction makes it so much easier. It will pass ... and you will feel better and better. I have the same goal ... I want to be chemical free. You are ahead of me .... good luck and God Bless, Goldie

[lisabet]

Hello, my sweet Nancy - I've been on your forum reading the posts, but seems like when I'm on no one else is (in chat).  Sorry I haven't posted for awhile, but I check in on everyone a lot.  I read about your latest ordeal with the Chrohn's..god, you're a brave soul. I honestly don't know if I could withstand that kind of pain.  You're such an inspiration, in that you still seem to keep your sense of humor in spite of all your pain, and are always right there to help others. RESPECT, lady - you definitely have mine. As for Thomas, we'll let him THINK he can handle the both of us....smile...and yeah, we better drop the handcuff idea; no doubt that would be right up his alley....heh-heh. (It's a good thing he's a "lovable" pervert, which is why us ladies are always falling all over him)....smile.  Hope to talk to you soon.  Take care, Love you Bunches, Lisabet

[bryan25503]

what kind of procedure did your doctor do to reduce your pain. I have alot of back pain and if they can do a procedure to ease my pain down some I would love to quit taking Fiorinal #3. So let me know or send me an email to ***@****

[lisabet]

Hey darling boy. First of all I want you to know you're a class act.  Secondly, your sense of humor and compassion was literally all that kept me holding on during some really difficult times. Thirdly (and most important)...when you're finished going through Mrs. Rat's drawer(s), you're more than welcome to come check mine out!!!  (heh-heh)...you knew I wouldn't be able to resist that one.  :)  Hope you're doing well. I've had some pretty intense cravings the past few days, but still keeping the usage fairly consistent.  Enjoy the rest of your weekend. Love ya/mean it!!! Lisabet  :)

[oxic]

Hey Thomas,

The offer still stands for my MILs' drawers........i'll do one better; i'll send you her, the cabinet, the drawers, and all the Rx bottles i can find(empty of course).

Hope your doing well down there!!!

[Thomas03]

Since the bottles are empty, least you can do is let me in those "drawers."

Thomas

[MrsRat]

Thomas, I have a drawer you can come look in if you want. (That is drawer dear, not drawers!)  Of course all the bottles I will leave it in will be empty, just for you.  LOL.

[oxic]

I was very happy to read that it will be 6 months for you Sturgil!!!!!  Awesome job friend.

I have to echo your comments about Thomas........ he also helped me tremendously, especially early on in my recovery when i was "white-knuckling" it; specifically with his knowledge and sense of humour.

It'll be 10 months for me on the 19th.

Continued strength to you!


percs

[Sturgil]

Thomas - You are a gentleman. You gave me strong advice in my early recovery and for this I thank you. It is only because of you and others here that this board works. Monday will be 6 months for me free from Opiates.

Experience

Strength

And Hope.

Thank you!


Sturgil Flockin

[Expillman]

Peace to you, too.  I apologize if I offended you, but I really thought that you were mocking me.  This is too serious for petty bickering.

EXPillman

[hippy]

after i was a moth or so clean, i started
waking up at 4 in the morning, turns out i have allergies
, since i got clean in the spring time it mas worse,
after taking the vikes for a few years it masked the alergies
.this ws all knew tome as i had never had them before i
started on the vikes,the doctor told me is common to get then in your late thrities.

peace!!!!!hippy

[MrsRat]

LOL, you think Thomas can handle the two of us without blowing a gasket?  Well, I do have those 4 pairs of cuffs if you think we'll need them, then again, he might enjoy that. :)

Haven't crossed paths with you for awhile.  I've missed you sweet lady.  Drop me a line when you get some free time and we'll get caught up!

[mrmichael67]

A standard, oral dose of morphine is 30mg.  A standard, iv dose is 10mg.  Sorry, but 8mg or oral morphine is laughable, at best.  Of course, some can get by with 15mg of oral morphine, but most can't.

[mrmichael67]

Of course, those doses are for pain control, not diarhea.  I would feel sorry for the poor soul that gets 8mg of oral morphine for pain, especially after his/her liver gets a hold of it.  There would be almost nothing left.

[Expillman]

Yes, this message forum is not ideal the way it is controlled.  Maybe there should be a GENERAL, open-ended area for continuous communication?  Regardless and Ironically, the title of this area is very appropriate.  I am in HOUR 115 of OXYCONTIN FREEDOM.  I felt almost good yesterday morning and naturally I was suspicious.  I am a widower and made a date with a lady friend for dinner.  She, of course, does not know about my recent week of hell here in drug withdrawal. I just told her that I wasn't feeling well, I've had bouts with IBS, so there was no suspicion.  It is not something that I am proud of, to say the least.  Anyway, I barely made it through the meal and begged off and crashed in my bed, choking down the nausea.  It was the first real meal that I've had since Monday.

I am fairly concerned about what I am reading about post withdrawal depression.  What complicates my situation is that I recently lost my wife, but was astute enough to NOT try to quit immediately after that happened.  I am determined to be completely chemical free, I will not consider taking Paxil or anything else that would be difficult to stop taking.  Like I stated earlier, this WITHDRAWAL has left a signature on my brain that will never be forgotten and NEVER repeated.  

I am fortunate in that I am retired and financially comfortable at 55, so I don't have what would be an AWFUL burden of dealing with a job!  I do have projects lined up as soon as I feel able, but I guess my big question is:  How long will it take to get back to feeling like doing anything?  I was on OXYCONTIN for 3 years and the dose climbed to 240-300.  I quit cold turkey Monday after numerous attempts to taper down.  It just could not be done in my case.  I made up my mind to quit, DUMPED about $600 worth of OXYCONTIN down the toilet and here I am, 115 hours later.

Right now I feel O.K.  As the day wears on, it seems to get worse, has anyone else had this experience?

[MethMan]

I think that you're having an allergic reaction too.
And if you are allergic to something in the oxy, then I'd call a doc before taking any more.  Sometimes an allergic reaction can get pretty serious, pretty quick.

[Expillman]

Boy, I've come a ways since Thursday, my first re-entry into the REAL outside world since going CT Monday.  I'm recognizing and taking advantage of my circadian cycles by getting stuff done when I am at my best.  Thursday I must have looked like a derelict, but today it was hair combed, teeth brushed, clean shaven, shirt tail tucked into clean shorts with belt and off to the grocery store.  Things are different, that is for sure, but I had no trouble talking to the grocery manager or striking up a conversation with a Black kid loading cases of Cokes.  I'm starting to feel like my old self again.  I am skeptical, because I remember what happened yesterday when I tried to do too much, I think.  

I am in hour 118 of OXYCONTIN FREEDOM.  Never Again will I experience the horrible and frightening sensations that I experienced this week.  As I stated earlier, I was ready to die if necessary, I had my affairs in order and all my pertinent information written neatly in a journal on my desk.  I just hope that the very worst is over.

[cetiya]

I saw the docs yesterday and no one seemed very impressed, except it's affecting my legs and they are very swollen, I'm still dizzy as hell.  Noone seemed to think it was an allergic reaction.  I'm also quiet forgetful, I mean severely!  
I saw someone mentioned these w/ds last a month  groan.

[Forum-M.D.-rcb]

Mr. Michael:

I was perusing the comments looking for the response from Virginia Paramedic with problems of diarrhea and gastric bypass. She needs help and she didn't respond.

In that process I noticed your comment about the usual dosage of morphine. You are correct because I was thinking about the parenteral doses when giving the numbers 8 mgm and 16 mgm.I know that having ordered morphine thousands of times over a half century of practice.  We all goof don't we if we're human. In this case I failed to make the switch.

It doesn't change the cumulative numbers of 200-300 mgm. in my mind,  and this lady affirms that because she's getting that "old feeling" with the Paregoric which has only the equivalent of 2 mgm of morphine, the main actor in Paregoric,  per teaspoonful. We don't know how much she's taking do we, or what else is going on?

You are an invaluable source of information but it would be wise to qualify remarks always because we never know the full details in every case.