Coming off trams

[willy10]

stopping trams
I am kicking trams. I was on a 25-30 day habit for 2 months. This is my 3rd time coming off trams.
I always go cold turkey. I am going on my 3rd day now and it's not that bad at all.
I take another drug which I will not name to come off which helps immensely. My concern is each time I get clean it becomes easier and easier for me. Why would this be? I know they say you should not go cold turkey with trams because of a possible seizure but a doctor fiend of mine told me the real risk is OD when you taking this med.
But why doe it get easier each time to come off? The drug I use to come off is not a narcotic but works wonders.
My first getting clean hell and back.
Thank you
Willy

[ImDONENoMore]

He doesn't sound happy to me.

[vicki595]

I know exactly what I wrote. My point is: You need to take a drug to get off a drug that you're going back on so you can be more creative in your writing!  I doesn't matter what you're doing. The fact is, you're exhibiting addict behaviour and that's my concern. I'm not the enemy here.  This is a forum for addicts and about addicts and trying to get and stay clean.  Maybe it just buggs me that you're so happy in your bliss of pills!  Well,not really.  You don't take Tramadol as it's to be taken. You have a habit. It's not the type of thing we promote.  I'm glad you "discovered" trazadone does the "trick" for your withdrawals. Many already knew that!!   Just be careful with that dose of 25-30 pills. It will bite you!    Good luck~

[willy10]

Well I keep coming back because of these kinds of responses like Viccki gives. God bless you Vicki you may mean well but you do better in stand comedy do you ever read what you write before you post no offense but here is what you just wrote

"You cover yourself with the trazadone which is what you have to do. You would be one huge mess without it."

So what's your point gssh I found a way to get clean in 3 days and no pain if you wish to go through a ringer because you have not figured it out by all means do so. Most people won't.I do not think you people are really looking for help you wish to stay miserable that's fine but some here will be smart enough to do what I do and not suffer.
Trazadone is perfectly safe to use with any kind of wds for a short time only.
In a few more days I am done with the Trazadone and I  am clean pain free can any of you say that.

I really need to make this the last post.
Good luck to everyone even the ones that want painful wds.
Willy

[ImDONENoMore]

I think it's a good sign you keep coming back here.  I really believe you think there's a problem, but I understand your need to defend your lifestyle.

I'm posting now because I see you are taking trazadone.  Please, PLEASE, be careful with this.  As you know, there's the anti-depressant in tramadol.  And most doctors do not prescribe both an anti-depressant and tramadol because of just this reason.  Here's what I found on the drug's website:

"Trazodone is used to treat depression. Trazodone is in a class of medications called serotonin modulators. It works by increasing the amount of serotonin, a natural substance in the brain that helps maintain mental balance."


This medication INCREASES the amount of seotonin in your brain.  This is a very dangerous game you're playing.  You could end up with serotonin syndrome and could experience a seizure at any time.  Just because you haven't yet doesn't mean you won't the next time.  It's like the way smokers think - that even though we hear smoking can kill, the rationale is, "yeah, but it hasn't YET"  Do you know what I'm saying?:

Please keep posting here - maybe with more information, you will see why so many of us are reacting to your story.  Please, listen to everyone here and try to see your situation in a different way.  Why not?  What have you got to lose?  If we're wrong, then we're wrong.  But aren't you worth finding that out for sure??

[vicki595]

Either way...Tyrozone is an amino acid that works well. We often talk about amino acids here during drug withdrawals and the benefits of them.

Trazadone is another animal. It's a psychoactive drug which lessons anxiety. It is an antidepressant.  I can promise you that if you didn't have the trazadone to pick up the pieces after the tramadol was gone, you'd be in bad shape. You haven't done anything here that others haven't done before you. You cover yourself with the trazadone which is what you have to do. You would be one huge mess without it.

You do seem like an addict but that's not really for me to say.  If you are comfortable with this lifestyle then it's your life to do as you wish. You're a big boy...

[willy10]

it's trazodone not tyrozone what I use

Willy

[gnarly_1]

HI Willy......Im not normally at a loss for words but I am now....most of us are addicts here
and have taken pill use to the edge of what is lethal....you have been a very lucky man
it absolutely amasses me you think what your doing is safe...your obviously intelligent
so I can only assume your in denile about this being a health risk...that and the long term
spikes in your serotonin levels will lead to seizures it not a mater of if but when...addiction is a fickle animal...I got away with taking lethal doses for yrs to but eventually it came to bit me in the a s s more then once...I can not over emphasize how dangerous what you doing is im not going to argue if you are or are not an addict that is earelavent and a mute point you obviously dont think you are...I just hope someone in in the house with you so when you seze they will be there to help you....I truly hope you dont give your self a stroke and also hope you realize you cant have normal serotonin levels in your brain doing this....you are setting yourself up for serotonin syndrome much in the same way people who do m.d.m.a do...none of the scenarios are pleasant...if you dont get anything else from this forum get the fact what your doing is extremely dangerous and you need to stop b/4 it bits you in the a s s....I wish you all the best I hope you survive finishing you book but then again all the best authors became famous after they where dead...Gnarly    

[ImDONENoMore]

That's what I was going to say.  But I won't pass judgment on anyone.  We all have our own way of doing things.  Something I learned only too well after I stopped using drugs.

[Toby1863]

?

[willy10]

Ok you hooked me in for one last post. Perhaps the Moon is really made of lavender goat cheese now you are asking how do the goats get up to the moon!
You can question all you wish to try to make something that is outside your box to fix inside where you are comfortable. The chances are after the next refill and book finished I will not touch a tram until I write again. I do not worry about something that does not worry me. I know this must be difficult to understand among most addicts that go nuts when they cannot get their fix but that is not me. Trams in my personal opinion are not very addicting at all. The problem with them has to do with what I have already posted. People that use trams on higher dosages simply do Not know how to go cold turkey. What I suggested to whoever wants to know is there are ways of stopping trams that make it a cake walk. It's not the very small amount of opiates in Trams that make you feel like hell it.s the darn anti-depressant quality of this med. Take care of that and your fine in just a few days. I have never been addicted to drugs I just use them as tools.


If anyone here has seen the Peter Jennings report on Ecstasy you would know exactly what I am suggesting. But I will not go there. Only to say it's not the drugs it's all in your mind get the right chemicals in your brain and your fine. Sadly the problem goes much deeper with people that are not normally happy with anything the end result is trying anything at anytime to shift their primary state of being using anything they can this is a real addict. Like anything else drugs can be abused. I do not look at what I do as abusing drugs in the normal way of abusing I use them to bring about a specific state to help me write when I am done I am done. So no if my doctor at the VA said Willy no more I would no shiver up in a corner worried sick I cannot get no more. What I would do would be pro-active and find something else that could do the same thing for me when I wish to write. When I write I stay in just one mode of being until finished when done I simply switch to another place of being and this does Not mean taking more drugs.

Ok done for good
Peace out
It's a world full of love out there go enjoy it and do not make problems when there are none. All is well only your mind tells you differently.
Willy

[ImDONENoMore]

Wow - great question perch101.  Really good question.

[perch101]

Hi willy,
Perhaps you don't worry too much because you know you will have a script in your hand and more trams soon? How would you feel if, say, your doctor cut you off and you found that there were to be no more trams for you, ever?

Not having a go or anything, just genuinely curious I guess.........

[willy10]

Perch wrote

"then using something else when you run out"

Sorry I missed this. You are not listening to what I said I use nothing after the I stop the trams except for the Tyrozone during the detox phase..
Tyrozone is used when you stop as it helps immensely and wds when used properly.
I will take it for a few more days and that's it. I am not replacing one for another.
Tyrozone is a oldie but goodie do some research on it but few doctors know how to use it for wds. Normally only doctors that are addition specialist know the correct dosage and it works like a charm. I am not recommending any one to use this. If you believe me do the research. If not that's also fine. I needed to post this lest you get the wrong idea. Please do not throw knowledge given to you just because you do not believe me  be diligent and do the research you will surely find it.

Willy

[willy10]

Hi David I can really feel for you.I do hope you can kick this send me a pm if you wish.
It's really the doctors that cause this kind of addition and people like you that are in legitimate pain are at their mercy. You see doctors have been trained to help their patients remove pain but  they are not professionally trained for is additions. There are a host of other steroid and non steroid pain relievers that do work almost as well as narcotics.I would name them but it's against the board rules here. I advice you to do more research than just this board. There are quite a few drugs that will help your pain without having to take narcotics but you need to use them properly with a plan. The reason why the doctors push out the strong pain killers is because its a one pill fix and the doctors wish to spend the least amount of time with you. Now a lot of times to be somewhat fair the doctors will give you a few other drugs to take such as anti-steroid drugs that do work if taken. However most of the times the patient takes a oxy or perc and like magic it works and they do not take the others. Then it's a loosing battle you need to take more and more for the same effect. It never has to be like this if these doctors were trained as the ones in pain clinics .
Hang in there, to be honest fear is your worst enemy now. You can teach yourself not to be fearful and you need to. This board and others are only one of the many ways to support yourself but if you stay just on this forum day after day hearing the same old stories this can re-enforce your fears. It's a good thing to look into other ways of support. My very best for you.

Perch101

I understand what you are conveying however I am atypical. Once I stop as I have now I do not even think about the next bottle of pills that will come in a month seriously it's blacked out of my mind. When the next bottle comes I will use them as before the book should be done by the time they run out and that's it no more trams until I get writing again.I have been doing this for 2 years and I know my body very well and I know exactly what to do when I stop. The only question I still have is why is it getting so easy now for me to stop. I am a active person even on trams. I look at this in a very different style than most. I simply enjoy my life straight as well as on trams.

I suggest to everyone  that are truly suffering from wds to look into where this suffering is coming from and to find things to do that make you feel happy about yourself and to love yourself.

Well I feel I have posted more than I intended to. I will end by saying there is nothing special about me except the way I perceive what drugs do and have no fear with them and I am smart enough not to go against my own rules. When I finish a book that high can never compare to any drugs, at least for me.

Nancy Regan infamous words just say no is Not effective if you are a user. You all have the strength to quit and it all starts with the mind get that straight take what is needed to counter what you are taking now, do not fear and you will make it.

This is my last post here
Merry Holidays to you all
Willy

[perch101]

Willy - Part of the addiction journey is realising that you are not an 'atypical addict' - that addiction is addiction and at the end of the day we are all the same.

I too, like you, went through a stage where I thought I was 'different' or 'atypical' than your typical addict - that I could use and control it differently from others, that I was different from other addicts I met at NA/AA.

I came to realise that this is not true - addiction is addiction and addicts are addicts.

I'll tell you right now - WE ALL go through the stage you are going through - of thinking were 'atypical or different' - but you will realise with time that youre an addict, and that its the addict in you telling you this so that you will keep using (they don't call it a cunning disease for nothing). But you will realise and see this for yourself sooner or later.

If you really were 'atypical' you would simply be able to stop using - rather than this complicated cycle of using tramadol, then using something else when you run out, then back to the tramadol etc etc. You would simply be able to stop and use nothing and be drug free. If you were able to do this no sweat then yeah, you may be an 'atypical addict'

:-)

[Dav125]

No Willy, I parted company with the oxycontins a couple months ago. They changed them to be supposibly tamper proof to stop heroin addicts from shooting them up as well as shutting down the demand for them due to all the medicaid patients that were getting them for free and selling them at basically a dollar per mg. People could sell a 90 count script of 80's for close to five thousand plus dollars..This was before they were reformulated to make them non-crushible recently.. The new formulated one's have something messed up in them though..They added some sort of polymer to make them hard and turn to gel if an attempt was made to dilute them for injection. Problem now is they are making alot of people sick and are not bioequivelent as is claimed by the pharma making them.I landed up giving the last script to my doctor in order to get prescribed some quick release oxycodone as that was my only option considering how these new one's did not agree with me...So I am in the process of down dosing to see how far I can go, if not all the way to stopping if my back and nerve allow it. I was at 200mg/day. I am now down to just barely getting by with 80mg/day but I am making progress in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.Hopefully by months end I will be able to say I am down to 40mg/day.

.Reason I still am having to medicate is I had surgery back in June but ran into post op problems due to the damage I guess that the nerve took from being compressed for so long...About a month after surgery the pain went ballistic..Within the last month I finally have hope though as the "severe" spike pain in my butt and leg has finally stopped.

.My point in referencing the oxycontins was they pretty much kept a constant dose going in one's bloodstream and when I stopped, they hammered me to the wall with wd's..Something I was still in denial about prior to taking them. Meaning any extended use of the oxycodone based pills is going to extract wd's from whoever takes them on a regular basis for more than a few weeks..

All I can say about your situation is your damn lucky up to now. Everyone I've seen that has tangled with tramadol has had horrible wd's which last twice if not three times longer than your standard opiate wd's..Instead of a horrible week like with reg opiates, they landed up going 3 to 4 weeks before that part passed. Why your not getting hit with the same is kinda mind boggling to say the least.  I hope after this run with them you can find your way out of the cycle your in though. You really have been lucky so far..As Gnarly said, you may not be so lucky next time..Wishing you the best with this ,,David

[willy10]

Thank you.Yes trams can cause you to be forgetful but it does nothing but help my creativity of course I might forget where I put my manuscript from time to time hehe.


I know this may sound like denial but I see no problem for me. But remember I am not using trams to give me a buzz and maybe I am a bit different the only reason I use them because for me they allow me to think outside the box so much better. I do not believe drugs are bad as long as you always have control. The moment I ever loose control and break my own rules is the moment they go in the trash never to be thought of again.
I also know this sounds crazy to most here but here I am on day 4 feeling fine and writing this post. You be the judge .

Have a great holiday it's colder than hell up here in upstate NY. I just came back from a nice 2 mile walk with my dog and my ears are still thawing out!

Peace
Willy

[ImDONENoMore]

Wow.  Your story sounds almost too good to be true?  The only thing I can say is when I look back now at those tram days I was NEVER thinking clearly.  You sound like a nice man.  And maybe you really do, on some level, realize you're in trouble.  You came here.  That may mean more than you think it does right now.

I have to say your story is a scary one.  Please keep reading everyone's posts.  This place is a great place to start if you want to be free from needing ANY kind of drug to write.  Please give it a chance.

[willy10]

Wait a moment I do appreciate all the good faith and concerned here well Vicki"s post was shooting below the belt on my writing.My books always have made the best seller's list. However in the book world the requirements to officially rate your book as a best seller is quite low. If you sell 10,000 books your a best seller. It pays the rent and then some. I will be the first to admit my grammar is bad but that's why I have a proof reader.

Now on to the other posters that did not need to use sarcasm  to make their point.
To Dav 125 I really hear you guy. I feel bad that you are in a situation where you need to take powerful pills like Oxy"s. I have never taken anything like that but basically it's Heroin in a pill. I wish nothing but the best for you. If you are a veteran you need to get yourself over to a VA hospital. These people are godsends. They are not at all like regular docs or a normal hospital and so much better. They have free pain clinics all over the US. They treat you like family because you are. I remember the first day I went into the VA Hospital. When you first walk in they have a greeter at the door welcoming you with open arms, never ever will you see this kind of care in those sterile white buildings they call Hospitals.

Well I digressed a bit no offense but many here really do not know at all what certain drugs do. To be clear I am not a addict as most here would think of one. I know the bio-chemistry of trams and I know exactly what they do. Tramadol has a very weak opiate receptor and also a excellent built in anti-depressant. The simple reason why so many have such a hard time quitting trams has nothing to do with the opiate part. It's very week and is not even as strong as a low dosage vicodin. It's the antidepressdent part that gets a person so messed up when they quit. This is also the reason why some will tell you it's so hard to quit trams. It's Not at all as long as you take care of the AD part of it. I read in the rules where members are not allowed to go into specifics on how to quit so I won't. I will tell you this my method works and will work with anyone for wds from Trams in one week at the very most you are clean and will not have those cravings.

I consider myself a atypical "addict" I have taken trams this way for over 2 years with complete success. Today is day 4 I feel great and I never have cravings for more. My cap is always 25-30 never ever more and when I get to my limit I stop and take around 10 per day for a few days and work back up. I do not use because of having a buzz all day I use because it helps me write. I know if I go beyond my limit I will have problems and I can tell when it's time to lower my dosage. Some here may know what Absinthe
is for those that don't it's normally 140+proof distills spirits with wormwood(herb) most of your renascence painters would use this daily it has the ability to lite up your brain to think in a way that inspires creativity. Trams are my  Absinthe.

I will end here as my question has not been answered but that's fine.
BTW after I finish a book I do not use trams or anything else until I begin writing again and this is usually months.

Peace and joy and hope to all of you. If any of you want to know more of my method to quit send me a pm I will be happy to discuss in private as not to break and forum rules.

Cheers
Willy

[vicki595]

Willy--  I'm not sure what I read here. Actually, I am sure...Wow!!   You are in some big trouble man!  It would be funny if it weren't so sad. A smart addict?  Really? Seriously?

I can tell you why you're feeling as you do. It's very simple. But,I won't post that here. We are not about promoting your type of behaviour. It's sick,addict BS!!  If your book(s)
are anything like your post,don't quit your day job.

Post back when you want some help getting off the tramadol, if you live that long!

[laurel453]

Ummm, with all the respect , the only smart addicts i know are the ones on recovery, you sound to me like a desillusional one. PLease, stop believing on your mind tricks. You are relying on another drug to quit the one you are using, all you have said is no stranger to addicts on active addiction....you are selfmedicating, you are hurting your health, you think your addiction helps your creativity, you think you are smart enough to control your addiction.. etc. BUT there is light at the end of the tunnel :) you are trying to get clean even if you have been unable till the present, never give up, try changing the approach :)

[Dav125]

What your describing in the mental approach to this could be a big factor in why you perceive this to be easier..There was a time "once" that I was able to turn the thoughts of using the pills off and walk on. This actually was what got me in trouble as during the past few years I would get scripts from time to time when the re-ruptured disc I had would act up..I would go thru the script, then walk away..This is how I landed up getting caught in the pain killer trap as I heard rumblings about the addictive nature of the drugs, but being I "thought" it was no big deal to stop other than a couple headachy days, when my tolerance went up which led to getting a stronger med, I blew off the thoughts of having any repercussions in the form of wd's being something I wouldn't be able to deal with..

Yeah, ok, but that was until I met up with oxycontin back in Feb..My doctor raised me to that as the perc's were not working anymore..Well, in April, the pain started elevating which led me to take more than the prescription had me set for. I ran out early..So I say to myself "No big deal". Maybe this would be a good time to get a solid read on how pissed the compressed nerve I had at L-5 really was..Then it started..The diarrhea, the massive migraines, sleeplessness etc..I was thinking "man oh man whats going on here?". Surely this isn't withdrawals..After struggling with these symptoms for 7 days, I came across this site and commenced to read..And realized these were in fact withdrawal symptoms as the descriptions everyone was sharing of their experiences was "exactly" what I was feeling. So game up. I had fooled myself into believing that since I had been able to "turn off desires to use the pills in the past", that I would be able to handle anything that came my way...

Not a chance. Every trick in the book that worked for me before didn't work anymore..That "willpowering" my way out ability had left the building..These wd's came at me with a vengence and no matter what I did, I could not escape the reality..The line had been crossed..The cucumber had pickled..

You may be "out thinking the pills" at the moment, but believe me, your half pickled right now..You just haven't acknowledged it to yourself yet...And once that change happens, there's no turning it off or going back to the way things were before...My guard was down because of my false perceptions and by the time I realized that was the case, the pills had dug in to the point of no return. Now I have to learn how to get these thoughts out of the forefront of my mind as thats where they land up taking residence..And they keep saying "you can't survive without me"...Your there as well. You said it..You said they allow you the creativity to finish your book because without them, you can't seem to tap into the best you have to offer in completing your project..And what comes next? When you come up with another idea or project you'd like to do, your mind will immediately focus on "get some pills because they will make it easier"..Mark my words..They are sneaking up from behind and are about to drop a sledge hammer on you

[dominosarah]

OMG, you take 25-30 trams a day?  If you continue to use like you are you wont have to worry about writing any more books.  A "smart addict" stops this insanity and gets into recovery care.  I hope you will too.....sara

[gnarly_1]

HEY dude your playing with fire with taking amounts that high just because you dident have a seizure last time dose not mean you wont have one this time please seek professional help wile your still alive to do so...at least check out an N/A meeting...your behavior has addict written all over it good luck and God bless......Gnarly