Depression,suboxone,opiate withdrawel

[tdmachine]

I was taking 50-60 mgs of lortab for 10 years. I have quit before for up to a year at a time and only experienced withdrawels for about 10 days and then felt fine (jimmy legs and sleeplessness was the worst part). I got back on Lortab and was sick and tired of it running my life so I quit again about 8 months ago and within about a month ended up in a severe depression. It was so bad I gave in and took 2 lortabs and IMMEDIATELY felt much better, but I was hellbent on NEVER getting addicted again. So I went to the doctor and got prescribed Suboxone (12mg/day) and have also tried a few different antidepreessents for my emerging depression. The antidepressents always seemed to make me feel worse,but the first time I took the Suboxone I took a nap, woke up, and felt as though the depression almost went away. I also think that I was teetering on an anxiety produced depression for a long time, but the lortab was just supressing it. I have been on suboxone for about 5 months and seems like when I try to taper off, the depression comes back again. I was wondering if anyone out there experienced taking Suboxone as a substitute for an antidepressent. I know if I were stupid enough to start taking Lortab again I would probably start to feel better mentally because they always helped me push things that I worry about to the back of my mind. I also think the Suboxone is helping do the same sort of thing but with not as big of an impact. I have bad dreams, feel terrible in the mornings, and always need xanax or ambien, or both to sleep well. Is there anyone else out there that has experienced taking Tabs or Suboxone as a substitute for antidepressents? I think some research is warranted for certain people that have no response to antidepressents.

[tdmachine]

Well 2 days of about 1mg of Subs/day and feel pretty crappy. I know you think I'm crazy, but a temporary fix for my lethargy and feeling like **** is a half of a Ritalin in the morning. Later in the day if I am stressing I take a 1mg Xanax. I am just wondering if everyone thinks my doctor has had me on Subs for too long. Like I stated earlier, I was able to quit all the other times by just going thru 7-10 days of jimmy legs, tha runs, feeling like I had the flu,, but he has had me on these for 4 oe 5 months. I am doing to try to quit the Subs within a week. TOTALLY. Then I can tackle the Xanax habit I have aqcuired the last 25 years (although that is the only drug I have ever found to help my occaional depression). Remember I had only been taking about 50 mg of Lortab every day for the jast 2 years and beat it before without anything but a few extra Xanax at night. Should'nt I be getting off the Subs by now????? Please advise. Thanks

[ginsa]

Yup...Trazadone is great. If you tell your MD you want it to help you quit taking Ambien he will probably be happy to help. I was cross addicted to Opiates and Benzo's and I can confirm that Benzo addiction is worse. I took Ambien every night for over 2 years. The sooner you get away from all the addictive substances you take the better. I addressed all of mine at once in Detox. If you have a daily habit of using Xanax and are also regularly taking Ambien, you might need help getting off of them. Talk to your Dr. Best wishes.

[refusingbondage]

I totally agree with Tommmm.. Be very careful with the suboxone or any other opiates.  I have never suffered depression but got hit with a huge, almost debilitating bout of depression when quitting suboxone.  Thankfully, I was able to pull out of it, but I am sure that if it could create depression for me, it can make it much worse for someone who truly does suffer from it.  Keep trying different non opiate medications.  I have friends who spent years finding the right antidepressants and combinations for them but eventually found what worked for them. I have also heard of trazadone for sleep and heard it works well.. Thinking of trying that one out myself.. Take care.

[tommm70]

If you can get off of the xanax and Ambien, try to. Cross addiction is very easy to fall victim to. Make sure you don't just stop taking xanax if you have been taking for a long time. Stopping this suddenly can cause seizures.

There is an anti depressant out there that helps tremendously with sleep called Trazadone. It knocks you right out, and is not habit forming.

Hope this helps

[tdmachine]

Thanks for everyones advise. I am now trying to ween myself off of the Suboxone (down to 1 mg/day). My entire life I have felt great except for those brief periods when I slip into my " temporary depressions". I stayed fit, played golf, kept fit and trim, none of which I am currently doing. I just don't have the jest to do anything but work (I own a business). I have a GREAT supporting wife that understands what I am going thru (she's seen it before) and I know this too shall pass. I had a couple of other questions. Do you find it better to take the Suboxone only once a day, and at night or in the morning ? I also take Xanax and if needed Ambien before bedtime. Any suggestions if I should stop taking these and just "tough it out" until my body adjusts to my natural sleep patterns? I am really trying to get off ALL medications andtake a xanax every now and then only when absolutely necessary. Please advise on morning/night and how often? For those of you suffering from depression I really can sympathise. Most people have no idea how painful and torturing it can be, I really feel for you. I also tried a new one called Prestiq and also with no results. The psychiatrist I went to said that some people are just immune to the current anti-depressents on the market so I guess I will have to depend on everyones advise (y'all seem more knowledgeable anyway). If I come up with anything that works for my depression I will post a suggestion. Thanks for all of your help..........

[tommm70]

I can give you my experience with Sub and the effects it had on my depression. I agree, short tern it felt like it worked wonders. When I was on it I felt great. But here is the problem I experienced. Eventually you build up a tolerance to Sub and you do not feel the effects anymore. It is still working, and your opiate receptors are blocked, but the body will become dependent.

This is what my doctor explained to me, and I hope I am relaying this. Because I became SEVERELY depressed when I got off of pills:

Early on opiates and even Sub to some extent give us a bit of a euphoric "rush" more so with opiates of course. So the pleasure center of our brain is flooded with good feeling chemicals, endorphins, dopamine, etc.. As we become dependent less and less of those chemical go to the pleasure center naturally. Our bodies want that artificial (drugs) boost. So we develop a chemical imbalance.

So in short Sub can be a cause of depression, not a fix. So be very careful. Exercise, meds, vitamins, are all medically proven ways to boost our brain chemistry.

Emma, I also had great success with Cymbalta. It really helped me break free of the cloud I was living in!

I hope this helps, depression is an aweful side effect of addiction. And sometimes the hardest to get through.

Good luck to you!

[ginsa]

Seems like Suboxone would relieve depression since it is only a partial opiate agonist. From what I've read, it is possible to get a little high on it, but only to a certain point. Unlike opiate agonists, taking more Suboxone will not get you "more high" because it has a ceiling effect. This is merely tangental to the original post, but the action of LDN is to block endogenous opiate production during it's peak production time btw 2am and 4am which has been shown to stimulate production throughout the day. It is my hope that by doing this, naturally occuring ( endogenous ) endorphins will increase, doing for me what the exogenous opiate ( hydrocodone ) did while I was using...ahhhhhh...relief.

[ginsa]

I have come across quite a bit of relevant information while doing searches on LDN therapy. I found several websites that allude to opiates and or opiate antagonists as possible treatments for depression. Unfortunately, since most of the articles were not about Naltrexone I didn't save them.

What I have gleaned is that there is interest in developing a drug containing both an opiate and ultra low dose Naltrexone for use in pain management. The addition of Naltrexone to the opiate significantly slows the rate at which tolerance is developed to the opiate. It also blocks the euphoric effect and minimizes withdrawl symptoms when the drug is withdrawn. Seems logical that it ( the drug compound ) would be less addictive as well.

I think the biggest challenge to getting this done is the question of profitability. Pharm companies won't want to spend the money on research to submit to the FDA unless they stand to recover the cost along with significant profit.


http://www.opioids.com/naltrexone/ultralowdose.html

http://www.findrxonline.com/rss/articles/opioid-treatment.html

P.S.

I just read a post on this forum by omfghelpme and he says that his Dad was given subutex 2mg for depression. Maybe you could send him a message and ask about it.

[Ella789]

  So td,  has your Dr. ever mentioned LDN ?   Is that like sub?  I was thinking it was different and that it was used for depression,  alcoholism,  opiate withdrawl amoung other things.  

  Your post wasn't too long,  that's what we are here for,  to post and ask questions.
I do indeed know all abt. depression as I think I needed help for mine most all of my life and never knew what was wrong with me !   Wish I had know more years ago.

El

[tdmachine]

Don't really like the way Subs make me feel I just hate the way I feel when I'm NOT taking them. It's odd but I haven't taken any all day today and I'm feeling pretty good. I may just take a quarter (2mg) before bed. With a Xanax also. My life's been Hell for several months and I should have gotten off of them 3 months ago. Was only taking about 50 mgs of Hydro a day but never had to use Suboxone to get off of them. Just cold turkey. It's time to quit. Thanks

[tdmachine]

I tried the Cymbalta and it made me feel HORRIBLE! I have dealt with depression 4 or 5 times in my life (about every 7 years usually brought on by a life stresser) but it usually only lasts about two months, then I feel back to my same old self. I have quit tabs 4 or 5 times always at least for a few months at a time, but just always started slowly taking them again. This time it has been EXTREMELY difficult because the depression has lasted soooo long. I think the timing of quitting this time wasn't perfect either,but as I stated, there is NO WAY I will ever start again.I am turning my life around.  I also quit smoking weed about 4 months ago (after doing that daily for 35 years) and am also hellbent on staying away from that !. I have also been taking low doses of Xanax ever since my first depression in 1986. The xanax seems to be the only thing to help with my anxiety,but when I quit that for 4 months,several years ago, I slept and felt great. This time  I quit Lortab I picked a really stressful time in my life to do it which is why I think it's been so hard to get off the Suboxone. I built a house, the economy, my mom's health, having to take care of her and her finances, so many things that are weighing on me this time that, in the past, I probably could have just taken 3 or 4 tabs and pushed the worry to the back of my brain and (worry about it some other time). So that's my experience so far and I guess the next thing to do is start getting off of the Suboxone. My mother has all her life struggled with depression and wondered if they have done any trials on Suboxone as an antidepressent. Sorry for the lengthy message, just an awful lot of info to convey for anyone to understand my situation.

[wbp2700]

Limit suboxone use to 30 days. TOPS. You're trading one for another. I started liking the way sub's made me feel too. I had to stop it all.

[Ella789]

P.S.   Yes, the lortabs did help with my depression, I didn't need an antidepressant while I took them.  Now I am taking Cymbalta 60mg twice daily and remeron for sleep.

El

[Ella789]

Hi!   I just wanted to say that ginsa and I were posting abt. depression last evening.  She is going to try LDN as her antidepressant.  Any way  I think this is an interesting subject as there are some who have a hard time finding an antidepressant that works for them.  Do a search for "LDN" low dose ( naxletsone(sp?)