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1474625 tn?1371097079

Does Anyone Else Feel the Same Way I Do about 12 Step?

I am not the traditional 12 Step recovery success story.  I followed my own successful path and have almost 2 years clean in August.  I believe the 12 Step program would have lead me to failure as I don't believe some of their principals.  

First off they believe you have to give yourself up to a higher power which doesn't have to be God, and I understand that, but I believe our higher power is the human brain, and that if you look deep within yourself you can overcome any obstacle.  

I also don't agree with the 12 Step idea that in order to be considered completely sober you must not take ANY drugs, alcohol or controlled substances (prescription or otherwise) that have the potential to be addictive.  This principle would not and will not ever work for me.  I have only ever had a problem with opioids and continue to live my life by occasionally going to bars and using prescription controlled substances responsibly.

I currently take Adderall and clonazepam for my Narcolepsy and have never had a problem with either drugs.  In fact I have an over supply of each because I am not entirely compliant with either drug.  I am supposed to take my Adderall every single day to keep me awake, but I am so used to being sleepy during the day that I actually LIKE the feeling, and I LOVE sleeping.  The only time I actually do take my Adderall is when I have to drive because I'm legally obligated to do so, and if I don't I could go to jail for vehicular manslaughter if I get into an accident and kill someone.

As far as the clonazepam goes, I am supposed to take it nightly to help me sleep and treat my RLS, but it causes "brain zaps" like SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome along with sleep paralysis.  And, I'm most energetic and motivated at night, so I don't want to sedate myself and sleep.

Does anyone else feel this way about the 12 Step program and still consider yourself clean even if you use potentially addictive substances and alcohol without a problem?
Best Answer
Avatar universal
Do you consider yourself an addict?  It sounds like you became physically dependent on the pain meds but maybe not addicted. There's a difference if you want to talk about it...

12 Step programs aren't for everyone but for the people who participate, they are everything...
18 Responses
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Avatar universal
(Continued) and don't worry about what others say or feel about it.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I believe you get out of the program what you want. You can't fixate on what you don't agree with. If you want or feel the Higher power is your own brain, then there is nothing wrong with that.

There is a difference with what is needed for serious health issues. Narcolepsy is one. If you need the Adderall to control that and take it only when needed then that should be ok.

I have bad RLS too. I take Requip. Maybe that would be an option for you. Takes away the creepy crawly moving weirdness and I sleep well.

So use the principles to get you what you need. It is more than just what you bring up. I have seen so many get mad because they don't agree with something or what someone said or how they interpreted it. We have to realize that others can affect us and we can't sweat the all stuff. Use it how you need to to benefit yourself and d
Helpful - 0
4113881 tn?1415850276
"do you think environment plays a role as well in addiction, especially in early years?"

Yes...it can play a role.
Helpful - 0
684676 tn?1503186663
do you think environment plays a role as well in addiction, especially in early years?
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1474625 tn?1371097079
Well I know I'm about a year late, but I do see the difference.  I study neuroscience, and I believe there is a component in the brain that has to do with addiction that, like sexuality or gender orientation isn't black and white but a sliding scale between the two extremes (gay or straight, man or woman).  But I believe the difference with addiction has to do with a predisposition to it from family inheritance and age of activation.  You said your friends call you OD because when you do things you always do them to the extreme.  This is a classic example of full blown addiction, and it seems to have been activated at a pretty young age from what I gathered.  The brain is plastic and malleable contrary to conventional belief (the myth that brain cells can't grow back once they're gone).  Anyone, even us (normal) folk if that's what you want to call us can become a full-blown addict over time depending on risk factors and how quickly the brain adapts to the drug and develops that false primal need to use as it believes that without the drug it will literally die.  For some of us lucky ones who catch it early enough, time away from our drug of choice will help rewire so we end up abusing the drug but not becoming fully addicted.  This must be a combination of time, predisposition, and LUCK.  But I don't consider myself any better than fully-blown addicts.  I feel they are much stronger, and have an amazing willpower to be able to stay clean with the urges they have each and every day. No matter how dull they become, the monkey is still on the back, and he's ready to strike waiting until someone is down.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Good posts, guys. I am pro- meetings, absolutely. My brain got me into the mess I was in, so my brain couldn't possibly be my higher power! Lol. I am not religious, so I have multiple higher powers. They are all bigger than me. The group of people (group of drunks, etc, lol) is bigger than me, and we all have the same goal. The steps are really about being the best possible version of yourself that you can be, and helping others do the same, so I am down for that. Honesty, open-minded, and willing to do whatever it takes to stay sober, check. It isn't for everyone, I asked my counselor, with dread, if I was going to have to go to these meetings for the rest of my life!? He laughed, and told me to give it a chance. I can't tell you how peaceful I feel in those rooms now.Anyway, I don't know if you are an addict or abuser, but I am an real addict/ alcoholic, and people like me should not use any substances. I didn't know I was an alcoholic until I started substituting alcohol when I couldn't find my DOC, but boom, it took me down quick. Opiates and alcohol work on the same part of the brain, so it is particularly dangerous for an opiate addict to drink. They have great odds of just trading one addiction for another. Sorry, I am rambling! Lol. Meetings are not for everyone, but I think some of those people have never even tried going to any. I recommend it to anyone who thinks they are an addict to try it at least once.
Allison
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480448 tn?1426948538
Well said,,,to the point sarah.  Wish everyone had that perspective.  :0)
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495284 tn?1333894042
COMMUNITY LEADER
If i allowed my head to take control for one fleeting minute i would be off and running....straight to the grave.  That is my reality.
Helpful - 0
480448 tn?1426948538
I think that there is a recovery path out there for everyone.  The 12-step programs certainly aren't for everyone, and the people who run those programs and benefit from them clearly know that, which is why they don't expect everyone to go that route.

I don't know a TON about the programs but from what I DO know, the 12 step programs are open to people to try them out, and see if they can get anything out of them.  Sometimes, a person will benefit from SOME of what a program has to offer.  Also, from what I've read here, meetings can vary a lot from location to location.  The individuals running each "chapter" I'm sure largely influence how regimented their meetings are.

One thing I SO agree with is this:

Recovery requires the addict's participation. If 12-step members thoroughly follow in the footsteps of those who went before them they have a good chance for life-long recovery.

That goes for anything.  I tell people on the anxiety and depression forums all the time that THEY have to participate in their own treatment plan.  They cannot expect to get better by sitting on a therapy couch once a week and get better.  Doesn't work that way.  There is a lot of work that needs to happen when a person goes home from those meetings too.  I get so irritated when a poster keeps asking the same questions, yet never addresses what they have done different, what they are doing to help themselves.

If it isn't for you, that's totally fine.  You just then have to find something that is.  I think the biggest priority is trying to figure out if you were truly an addict, by definition, because if you are, some of your thought processes (ie drinking) can be detrimental to you and affect your sobriety.  A TRUE addict really CAN'T do all of the things you mentioned (not without really putting themselves at risk)...they CAN'T take Rx narcotics and be left to their own devices to be accountable, they can't drink....etc.

That's where SO many people get into trouble...they will say "Well, I never abused my Xanax in the 25 years I've had a script", only to find themselves with a benzo addiction.  Or, "I've never had a drinking problem, even before my pill addiction, I can handle it".  Its that kind of thinking that will lead a TRUE addict to very dark places.

So, what you assay may be absolutely true...but I would strongly urge you to be sure you've sorted out exactly what you were dealing with, so you're not putting yourself at risk!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I'm from the pro-12-step camp. Been saving my life since 1982. Saved millions of lives since 1936. For many of us it's all we have. Above posters have described real addiction very well. Im cross-addicted. Vickie mentioned " it works if you work it". She's right! Just going doesn't do it. Recovery requires the addict's participation. If 12-step members thoroughly follow in the footsteps of those who went before them they have a good chance for life-long recovery.

Sure, going to a bar would be exciting, but I'm a drunk. I'm one drink from disaster. And that disaster isn't me, it's the other people on the road I might kill by driving drunk. I came out of a blackout while driving and so drunk i was seeing 4 roads. I closed one eye so I only saw two roads. God got me home that night. Soon after I went to my first 12-step meeting. Its the only program that ever worked for me. I WANT to use responsibly but my disease won't allow it.
Helpful - 0
4522800 tn?1470325834
Well I guess I will put my 2 cents in..I am 57 and have been using and drinking off & on since I was 14..I always walked away for awhile and tried a new drug or more as each decade came..I thought nothing of it nor did I ever experience a w/d until the 90s when I got the hydo/oxys..I went up to the Methadone because it go me Buzzed for less..Well by then I knew I was so out of control. The same story running short, Dr hoping, driving far to buy them on & on..I went to the meetings in the past because of drinking..I did do the steps a few times..Now I have been hitting all the meetings for over 9 months..I Have studied all about the "Disease of Addiction and the Pleasures Pathway"..I thought I could do it alone without going to the meetings..I thought I could go around my user friends..NO Not Good..I started to go down hill and craved drugs even more..I am now hitting the meetings almost daily again..I also have great support at home but I do need more to stay in my recovery..I can not use again or I will be dead!! So plan and simple whatever works for who ever is working it!!!
Bless
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1970885 tn?1435860428
I used the steps and they helped; not sure why but they did. And as far as the higher power being my brain, well, that's not me. I am an addict; my brain is wired differently that "normal" people. As an addict, I believe that I will alway have to be on guard, and my brain is working against me. Such is my life.
I have always been an addict - when I was younger I ate too much, then I drank too much, then I found pills. Even though I'm clean, I still do things to the extreme. My friends used to call me OD (over dose) because I would always over do things.
Sounds like you were abusing, but not an addict. I (we) have no control over the addiction; using other addictive substances will always lead back to our DOC. Years of clean time can pass, and we can still relapse if we think for one moment that we've got it beat or are in control. At least that's my story.
K
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1474625 tn?1371097079
You bring up a good point about the difference between dependence and addiction.  I have studied addiction in college, and I have a theory that there is a spectrum starting with use, then tolerance and/or dependence, then abuse, then functioning addiction, then non-functioning addiction with or without multiple dependencies.  

I feel like I made it to the abuse portion, but I was also in chronic pain and my PM doctor wouldn't put me on anything stronger than Norco (my script was for 10/325mg to be taken up to 7x per day).  That formula alone can trigger abuse since it triggers the brain's pleasure center for reward.  I believe if I were given a stronger prescription with a time release to be taken once daily I wouldn't have abused it, but she wouldn't prescribe me anything like that so I felt I had no choice but to up my dosage as I had a lot of trouble sleeping due to my back pain (burning, aching all the way down to my legs, shooting pain, etc.).  

So still to this day I wonder whether I was really fully addicted to the Norco, or if I caught myself before it became a real problem.  I do have to admit, though, I did like the euphoria the Norco gave me, but who doesn't?  I never chased it and only used it when I was in horrible pain.  It was my fear of withdrawal which led me to continue taking opiates.  Then I found Suboxone which helped me gradually taper down with little withdrawal.
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495284 tn?1333894042
COMMUNITY LEADER
I started using before i teenager and didnt clean up till i was in my mid 40's.  I used to numb the pain.  My dad had been in recovery for 23 yrs when he passed away in 2006.  My brother is also a recovering alcoholic, 20 yrs now i believe.  Yep it is in our genes!  I am the only one who got into the drugs.
Helpful - 0
1198664 tn?1368647812
I feel you. I would not do well in that setting either. They are definitely not for me, at this point in my life anyway.
But I do see their usefulness for others who thrive in that type of environment and there are some serious success stories due to that program. But I would not be one I those. I like you am finding my own way. Not everyone can do that. I am leaning a lot on family (wife especially) to help me through as well as doing a ton of soul searching and dedicating myself to other healthy things (like fitness). I am open an honest about my addiction and tell every feeling I have to my family who helps keep me grounded.
But if I find myself struggling too much I will be more aggressive with meetings and whatever it takes. I'm not ruling anything out at this point. I'm just doing it how I need to right now and it's working so far.
I too have had a few beers, at the ball game and stuff but nothing crazy. But no opioids whatsoever.
So you are not alone I feel just like you do.
Helpful - 0
1474625 tn?1371097079
I completely understand your situation and get why you can't use anything because you substitute addictions.  I've even heard that some people have substituted exercise for their addiction because of the endorphin rush it gives them which causes them to relapse thinking they've been cured and in denial since their new addiction is "healthy".

I'm just wondering why some of us can continue to use other substances without trading addictions and others can't.  May I ask how long you were a user before you got clean?  I wonder if this has something to do with it, or if there is a genetic component to it.  Do any of your family members have addiction problems?  Forgive me if I'm being intrusive.  You don't have to answer my questions, I'm just really curious as to what drives the severity of different addictions.

As for me I only used continuously from 2009-October 2010, and addiction doesn't run in my family.  I also didn't start off using recreationally until I built up a tolerance to the dose I was on, and I was in denial about that until after I had surgery and didn't really need the pain meds anymore and tried to stop but couldn't.  That's when I finally realized I had a problem.
Helpful - 0
495284 tn?1333894042
COMMUNITY LEADER
Each of us has to do what is right for us.  I personally like the program.  I am a recovering addict/alcoholic.  They use the "potential to be addicting" as many of us have traded addictions.  I for one cant use anything that is addicting as i have no control.  
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495284 tn?1333894042
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