Fatigue after Tramadol detox

[Onetonbrun]

Hi everybody.
Today is my 13th day cold turkey detox from a 7 year heavy addiction to Tramadol And Codeine Phosphate.
My typical day was 40-50 x 50mg Tramadol, (10x50mg every 90 minutes) then I would "finish" the day with 12-24 x 30mg Codeine Phosphate, 2 "sittings" of 12x30mg,
I was prescribed these by my GP after a martial art injury for years, no questions asked, no alternatives sourced,
In no time I was hooked to these meds and a typical 2 week prescription was only lasting me 2 days!
If I ever ran out of these evil pills I would go out and buy them off unscrupulous folk who I knew fine well had these prescribed to them, I have a good job, plenty of money so use that to my advantage to get the meds, the people who used to sell me them on a weekly basis soon forgot their scruples when I had cash in hand so I always had the trump card!
Over the years my wife started to realise the man she married wasn't the one she saw everyday, she knew something wasn't clicking right with me, eventually she found out, chucked me out, 10 year marriage down the drain because of lying, denying and spending tens of thousands of pounds on these evil little pills!
What's happened has happened so the only way now is up and as I mentioned earlier I desperately need to get energy from somewhere! I am eating and drinking the correct stuff and excercising lightly and frequently but everyday I am hitting a "wall" several times so all I want to do is lie on my bed and sleep!
AmI expecting too much too soon?
Please help friends, am at my wits end now!
Thank and bless you all, Richard.

[killerzoey]

I know none of us who truly wants to quit is looking to trade one addiction for another. I took a risk that I would do this when I used hydrocodone to wean off Tramadol and maintain me through the worst of the withdrawals. The reason I did that is simple. Had I NOT gone this route, without a chunk of time off work I probably would not have been able to quit the Tramadol AND keep up my level of responsibility as breadwinner, my relationships, and position of some visibility in the community. I obviously cannot prove this, it's just my opinion from seeing what others go through. What I'm getting at is that no one can tell you for sure what the outcome will be. If someone is stuck and truly cannot get to the other side, well, things like methadone and suboxone are considered. Take that down a notch and you've got things like what I did and others have done with Kratom. But no one can look in a crystal ball and say for sure how your body will react to it and what issues you may have coming off it, or whether at that point you will still be motivated to do so. I hope that helps. I have taken Kratom before when I didn't have insurance and found it no problem to quit. I also found it didn't help the pain I was in, but that is not the issue here, I think. I have also read sad pleas for help from those who have found themselves dependent on it and who suffered pretty decent withdrawals when they tried to quit. Good luck to you whatever you decide. (((hugs))) - Zoey

[lokisnooper]

Please..if you know about kratom stories, plese tell me.  I reasearched kratom and cannot find anything terrible about it except t be careful because it can be habit forming as well.  I posted a question asking if people had any info about kratom, but nobody responded.  If you know anything, please tell me....I don't want to get myself in worse trouble than i'm already in.  I've found that it nearly takes all the tramadol detox symptoms away and I was so hoping it would be an answer to my terrible struggle.

[toothfairie]

ahhh ok....i can't do the veggie thing in a blender...just doesn't sound appealing to me...lol  and that's alot of tea in one day!  the greens i talk about aren't tea tho really...it's all natural ingredients that you can mix with what ever liquid you like.  Hopefully someone will post about the mix you are talking about.....

and sanford is a long way from orlando if you've just flown for hours...especially with traffic!!  uggg

[Onetonbrun]

Hey again toothfairie.
Florida will always hold a special place in my heart with me being married there in 2002, I will get back one day it's just if you want to land in Orlando international we have to travel to and fly from heathrow or gatwick but if we use our local airports we have to land at Sandford and it's a pain in the arse after an 8.5hr flight queuing for your hire car and driving to I-drive or Kissimee!
Anyway back to the matter at hand, I have had posts regarding the "green drinks" and I think they are green vegetable home made drinks in a blender but supposed to be hyper packed with everything a lethargic recovering addicts body needs!
Please don't speak about tea as I was told to avoid along with coffees but I'm an Englishman and we have "cuppas" with everything, on a good day if I was off work I could easily drink between 40 and 60 cups of tea a day!

[toothfairie]

aww that's too bad about your FL trip!  but it will still be here when you do get back over here...haha....

you sound so positive and it gives all of us courage to be better....puts me in a better mood to read your posts.  

as far as green drinks....do you mean green tea?  there are alot of things for energy...there is diff types of greens that you mix with tea or water that are suppose to be all natural.  I have some but i don't use them as much as i should.  lol  i can't get past the taste..hahaha  

[Onetonbrun]

This post is for anyone really,
I am going to the supermarket in the morning and I have been hearing a lot in these forums about "green drinks" for energy,
Could anyone tell me these ingredients so I can pick them up tomorrow and get blitzing please?
Quite lethargic at the moment but I have been up and about for nearly 14.5 hours now with a light weight session, general housekeeping, a trip to the seaside with my kids (50 mile round trip) a neighbours little girls 5th birthday party with my boys and a little extra under my belt today.
Fighting with my eyes at the moment and it's only bloody 825pm here!
Thank you for sharing your time on a Sunday, Richard

[Onetonbrun]

No probs vvic!
How are you doing today? Am glad I'm not the only one to be shrouded with the bloody snow, used to love it as a kid but as soon as your an adult you realise how much of an inconvenience it really is!
Secretly love building igloos with my oldest boy though!
I sound like a proper English Grinch at the moment hehehe!
-3 degree greetings vvic. Richard.

[Onetonbrun]

I asked my soon to be ex if she would still like to go back to Orlando this year, (we had it planned last year before we split) with the kids as my youngest hasn't been yet but she shot me down in flames! A BIG NO NO!
So I'm going to be a little selfish and have a fortnight in Dubai as a treat to myself when I am 100%
DEFINATELY NO DRUG MIS-USE OVER THERE AS A BONUS!!
Will miss Florida though, love the place and people!
From a slightly jealous Richard

[VICourageous]

OK u guys I miss the beach. I have not seen the ocean in yrs. And the white s**t gets to be depressing. It takes awhile to melt out here. I did have a baby moose go walking by my window just now. As u guys know I have them alot. I see you are getting there richard, and Oh I thought it was your son not brother...Oh well my brain is still healing from all the yrs of use. Ha
Anyway keep on truckin.
God bless us all
vickie

[toothfairie]

yes Cocoa beach is great!  that's usually where i go since it's the closest to me in Orlando....I-drive is sure the tourist part of town....lol  i try to stay away from there as much as possible cuz traffic s**ks!!  ha!  

I will get to the beach again this year...didn't make it at all last year...so sad to live this close and not enjoy it...but i plan to make up for it this year!  

so glad you had a great day with your kids!  they grow up so fast!  i was in Daytona beach last weekend for work and i made it to the beach/boardwalk and it was very chilly!  been cold here in fl last week.  

[Onetonbrun]

Hiya toothfairie,
Ive had a good day at the beach with my boys and "wife" but by god it was bloody freezing!! So only 20 minutes was spent on the sand and the rest was in a fish and chip shop, the gaming arcades and sideshows and the car on the way home!
It was ironic because 4 years ago we took our oldest boy to Disneyworld, stayed on I-drive again and did all the touristy stuff again but every time I have been to Florida I always had a Sunday at Cocoa Beach, the 1st time I went there I just fell in love with it and kept returning but this time with my oldest boy I was in the ocean and I looked over and my wife was screaming so I ran over panicking a little, but all it was was it was so hot she tried to walk to put some rubbish in a bin and she was burning the soles of her feet on the sand!!!
She was hopping around like those lizards do on the sands in the Sahara!!
But today we all had Wellies on instead!
Hope you are enjoying your TV and couch still,
Richard.

[toothfairie]

oh the snow sounds pretty!!  i miss that....but it's a beautiful day here in FL so i'm not complaining!  glad you are doing so good!  enjoy your day....i will be a lazy bum on the couch today i think....maybe get out and walk some in a bit.  :)  

[Onetonbrun]

That post has really made my day Annie,
I watched a little Chi Gong on YouTube and I have to admit it looks FANTASTIC! Definitely my cup of tea, just like Aikido clips on youtube when you see an old master standing there and channelling energies into an opposing force it takes either a real believer or someone who has experienced it to comprehend and appreciate it! Beautiful arts!
Aikido was developed just after WW2 so is still in my eyes in its infancy compared to a lot of the other Japanese and Chinese martial arts and it's basic philosophy is love, that is what attracted me to it.
British TV is rubbish, I have never ever been one for sitting in front of the TV, apart from kiddies tv with my children but out of your list Alan Partridge is by far the funniest, Steve Coogan is a genius!
The snow started 7 hours ago at 6am went whiteout crazy now thankfully the sun is out melting it away!! Don't mind the snow but even in this house I'm wearing sunglasses because my eyes are super sensitive at the moment.
Any plans for today Annie?
Love, Richard

[EvolverU]

Hey Richard Konichiwa!
      Congrats again - (I posted on your status) - on day 15! You sound chipper..So glad you are getting decent sleep. You'll heal so much faster. I still have a difficult time getting more than a couple of hours a night but I know it will come in time.
       I figured from the little that I've seen demonstrated and my small understanding of some of  Aikido's underlying principles that it had to be an inner stillness & chi cultivation art.  "The way of harmony" - beautiful..Chi Gong simply means "Energy Work".
       Yeah, that mixed martial arts thing is big here in the states. It's not really my thing, either. It seems so "outer"(about show) & seems to lack the true wisdom, compassion, humility and stillness principles of the ancient arts.
         I see your online so I'll make this brief. How are you today? Crap UK TV, hunh? I don't own one but I watch a lot of Brit shows online like Inspector George Gently, Morse, Lewis & Alan Partridge. Also loved Flight of the Conchords - by the 2 New Zealanders (though they made that here.)   I was up all night watching the first two seasons of Laurie & Frye's: Jeeves & Wooster. (I love P.G. Wodehouse)
          So, how are you today - my friend? How bad's the snow? I know just where Durham is & also familiar with Newcastle & Newckie Brown Ale.

                               All good things & Domo arigato back at you...
                                           Annie
                                      
                      

[Onetonbrun]

Did you receive my reply to your note please Wendy?
I'm still not used to or very fast on this site that's all,
Thank you. Richard.

[ImDONENoMore]

Oh dear, please be careful using kratom.  I've heard equally bad stories about getting off of that.

[lokisnooper]

Hi!!  So nice to see you here!  I am wendy and I am very new to this forum as well.  I have had a 30+ pill tramadol addiction for nearly 2 years now and its been a terrible secret.  God delivered me from the bondage of alchol addiction 3 years ago and I am so grateful I can hardly stand it, but this tramadol addiction is becoming problematic too (though not nearly as horrible as the alcohol.  I think the fact that they are becoming so expensive to get online is actually the most motivating factor for me getting off them.  I can't keep paying out hundreds of dollars evey month for this!  If I wasn't doing this, my living situation would be so much better because I could afford a better place.  Anyway, I have had much relief from tramadol withdrawl symptoms by taking kratom (an herbal supplement).  I'm not allowed to go into detail about it because last time I did i got warned by the medhelp moderators..but you can do research online to find out more.  I'm glad you are here.  I am also a praying woman, so I am sending out prayers for those of us here who are struggling with the tramadol issue.  God bless

[Onetonbrun]

Hopefully your Saturday is still going well Annie
DOMO Annie!
Japanese thank you. Richard.

[Onetonbrun]

Hiya Annie
Thanks for the reply and it's only 815pm here and it's Saturday night rubbish TV night for my mother so the TV is up to volume 40 and no one dare disturb her! Lol,
That art sounds just up my street Annie it really does, Aikido is an art of basically re-turning negative energy towards you back to an attacker so no attack is taught, it is amazing how much energy or chi is generated within the cores of our bodies,, even sat or kneeling down if our inner chi is horizontal the power expelled is explosive by people of all sizes, strength and age,
The founder of Aikido Morehei Ueshiba practiced his art right up to his death when I think he was 86!!
With Aikido literally translated from Japanese to English as " the way of harmony" the ability to empty your mind and focus is very important, if you go into a session with a cloudy mind and can't clear it you are wasting not only your own but your sensei and training partners time and very highly likely get hurt!
Over here in the UK that UFC and mixed martial arts is huge business and every thug over here wants to do it, Morehei Ueshiba wrote " never make fun of or criticise other art forms" Each to their own I suppose, give me a round lily pond to sit around to watch, listen and smell to a UFC ring anyday
I'm going to enquire about Chi Gong when better, my nearest Chinatown is in a city called Newcastle approx 25 miles from here, you may of heard of it with you working over the border in Edinborough.
Codeine,,, my mum agrivated an old slipped disc injury on Monday so the doc came to the house, did her thing then left, the next day my mum had loads of meds on the side one such being 100x30mg codeine, she looked at me and I just said " if you want to hide them that's fine, but I promise you not 1 will go missing if you leave them out in my view"
She left them out bless her and they are still untouched by me, no way Jose!
174lbs was the biggest I ever got because of my "smallness!" but I got that weight working out like crazy for my wedding in Sept 2002 to my then soulmate in Miami,
Just a nostalgic and happy time weight for me I guess

[EvolverU]

Very kind Richard,

                         An angel?...I don't know. To paraphrase Rochfoucauld: "God never wants a woman until the devil's done with her". That said, I truly and actively seek the grace, the peace and the harmony that were out of my grasp for so many, many years. I know a little bit about Aikido - but not too much. Maybe you can tell me about it sometime or I'll read about it and watch it on YouTube. You're right on the money. Chi Gong is an ancient Taoist form of subtle energy (Chi) cultivation and manipulation involving either graceful outward movements and inner stillness or the reverse - still postures with inner energy manipulation. It has been used for millennia in China & the far east in many forms for physical/psychological healing, longevity & enlightenment. It is not a "martial" art per se but I have seen 90 yr. old masters on YouTube throw younger stronger men backwards without laying a finger on them by projecting energy at them. Tai Chi came out of Chi Gong. I've never trained with an actual master & I've read reviews online about different places around Boston and found  incredible stories about this one place in Chinatown. I can't wait to go!
                  Do you meditate? I would guess that Aikido would involve some meditation.
                   Anyway, so glad to hear that it was Codeine Phosphate. Good for you, smart man! (though you may find the comment ironic - because it was Codeine.) A lot more deaths are caused each year  by NSAIDS than any opiate. Also glad to hear that a lot of the "acute" stuff is diminshing. God bless, if your digestive system is returning to normal that fast. Wow! I wish mine would but I had a lot more years in than you and multiple abuses.
                 Glad you're tucked into your bath with your I-Touch on. I do the exact same thing. I know the sweats are driving you crazy. They drive me crazy to. I do my laundry twice as often as I used to. I can smell the toxins coming out of my body. My sense of smell is so acute now. (Bad cologne and things like that actually make me gag.) Actually, folks drenched in "body spray" or bad cologne has always been a pet peeve. Happy you're gaining weight. It's a healthy sign. Is 174 your normal body weight at 5'7" or just a target you or (your brother lol) set? You'll know when you feel and look right. The exercise will get the endorphins firing & the toxins out faster whenever you're able to do it - even walking at a good clip.

                                    I'm sorry this took so long to get to you. I'm aware of the 5 hr. time difference. Actually, I'm hoping you're asleep.
                                      All good things your way Richard,
                                                      Annie
                                
                

[Onetonbrun]

Hello again,
My sleep duration is satisfying enough and I am getting up less through the night now but it's the intense sweating that's my main bugbear I just can't understand it
I keep super hydrated through the days but feel like I'm just wasting my time!
My emotions are in better check than before I mean just a week ago I couldn't even say my 2 little boys names without crying my eyes out, but I think that was amplified by the fact I didn't see them for the 1st 9 days of my detox as I didn't want them to see their dad like the zombie I was.
Toilet habits are returning back to normal now as I now don't only feel safe if I am within a 5 meter radius of a toilet!
The alcohol side,,again thanks to Aikido I wanted not only my mind clean and pure during training but my body also,,I'm sorry if it all sounds very "hippyish"
I only ever took Codeine phosphate which was pure codeine and never took it with paracetamol mixed in becauseI heard stories of stomach linings being eroded and liver failure due to paracetamol.
I've just returned from a soak in the tub, Epsom salts fizzing away and Beatles on my iPod so I am totally at harmony, (harmony again!)
Also weighed myself,,day 1 detox I was a measly 132lbs but now day 14/15 I am up to 149lbs! I've set my target for 174lbs in 82 days.
Bless you for taking the time and interest in me Annie,Richard

[Onetonbrun]

Jeez! I may have lost my wife as a soulmate but I have definitely stumbled across an angel here!!
I think your vast knowledge is not over fantastically overwhelming but also incredible, I have only been on this site for 7 days or so and the information gathered from heroes on this site has been just mind boggling!
Where do I start?....yes martial arts my chosen art is Aikido and have been studying and training for 10 years now,, I chose this beautiful art because of its non attacking style and emphasis on harmony of everything around oneself, in other words I'm more of a peace seeker and lover of everything than a fighter! But I truly believe having a little inner peace and conditioning has truly helped me keep focus and strong during my detox,
What is Chi Gong if you don't mind me asking? Sounds like a Chinese inner energy form martial art!

[EvolverU]

Dear Richard,
                   I'm thrilled to hear that you were so healthy & that you did martial arts. I'd love to know what you did. I do Chi Gong, though I haven't really had the energy to do as much as I'd like but I can't wait to get back to it. I, too, was a big walker (though not job-related.) I understand the finance bit too, I used to live in Edinburgh in the late '80's early 90's and it was more expensive than NYC where I came from. We could use a little of that scare mongering over here - we just get it about terrorism to keep us distracted from the things we're doing to others around the world and our progressive loss of freedoms - but never about health as we don't have socialized medicine and insurance companies, big Pharma & HMO's get fat off our ill health.
               Anyway, I'll shut up because I know you're in the acute phase right now & are tired. Yes, sweating, tearing, yawning, sneezing, sensitivity to light and smells are all absolutely part of the process. I'm at 73 days off of 20 yrs. on Methadone and 53 off Vicodin to subutex stepdown and I'm still sweating but I sneeze a lot less and don't tear half as much. I'm still emotional but not all over the place and that's probably a good thing - getting out all the grief/rage/hurt and guilt that we were masking & created along the way - through "not being there". Tramadol is tricky as it's semi-synthetic and has things in common with Suboxone in terms of receptor affinity but don't worry you can do this. One thing I didn't mention that I just mentioned on another post that you might try to help you sleep is L-Tryptophan - one of the essential amino acids. If you can't get it in a store you can order it through the net. If you can't get that you can get 5-hydroxyTyptophan (I'd take more than the recommended dosage.) Unfortunately, They do come in capsule form. No way around that. The best Natural sources for Tryptophan are Whole milk & Turkey. If you eat meat, I'd choose the turkey because so many people have allergies to casein (dairy protein) that they don't know about. It's particularly hard to break down when it's Ultrapasteurized. If you're craving certain foods & you know how to eat well - if you stay away from the Chippies and Fry up's and the sweets - listen to your body and indulge yourself. BTW, if you find yourself producing a lot of phlegm, this too, is your body's cleansing response. If your runs aren't too bad - as I said before - Cal/mag or Magnesium will help a bit with the sleep but you have to weigh the benefits against the side-effects. If you really need to sleep Benadryl - or an anti-histamine might help. The thing is, one of the reasons we go crazy with the sneezing and tearing etc. is that opiates cause the body to release an overload of histamines. That's why people scratch when they're high. So, when we stop the histamine response goes haywire. I only used Benadryl when I was desperate because I wanted my histamine responses to get back to normal. The sweating though, I believe is another of the bodies cleansing responses. It takes the body between 7 - 10 yrs to completely rebuild every bone, tissue and blood cell. So, it makes sense that depending on the drug and it's ability to saturate bone and tissue that these symptoms take time. It depends how long you were on, which drug, whether you've had other habits, your age, genetics and general condition. The fact that you haven't had a drop to drink in 10 yrs. is FABULOUS - (especially in the UK - I bartended while I was over there.) So, your liver might be in good shape despite the Codeine (which I'm assuming had Paracetamol in it.) If you do have liver issues and/or pain there are things we can do for this, too - Milk thistle for a start. A healthy liver and gut will make your healing process much easier.
                   Hope some of this helps..let me know how you're doing. I'm on line a lot these days and your allowing me into your life is an honor & as beneficial - if not more - for me, than it is perhaps for you.
                    God Bless you. Have some turkey or whatever get yourself into that hot tub and add some salt (it does make a difference.) Relax, treat yourself well. Listen to some music that gives you joy or soothes you. Wishing you some rest...
                             Your ally,
                                      Annie

[Onetonbrun]

Just a quick question if you don't mind Evolver?
With the sleep I am getting I am still up and down a few times through the night and each time I feel almost "fluish" and I am absolutely wringing wet with sweat even though I sleep with the window ajar and only use a thin duvet!!
Is that part of the withdrawal process are you aware please?
Bless you for your time. Richard.