Help, need info asap, dr. appt. tomorrow

[faith_hope_love]

Hi all,  I hope I can type this, I am so anxious, my hands are shaking.  Before I ask what I need help with let me just remind everyone what my addiction is...lortab 10mg. up to 10 a day.  The dr. has had me on these for about 6 or 7 yrs.

I know many on here don't recommend sub. for hydro/lortab addiction but as I have told you all, I plan to do a 10-14 day short term detox because I have done the CT before and it was a nightmare.  I will say that last time it was lortab, soma, xanax & prozac that I detoxed CT off of so I don't know if that is what made it so bad but I just can't bring myself to do CT this time.  Not to mention that I live with my parents who are both in bad health, (papa has alzheimer's and mama needs me everyday to help with him, he just fell and busted his head open today :-(  ) so I can't be back here in my bedroom sick for days.

As I have told you all, the only reason I started taking lortabs again is because of a lack of energy but now I know from educating myself  here at MedHelp, I know in time my body will heal.  

The other proactive things I have done is told my dr. that I wanted off the lortabs so not to give me any.  The other proactive thing is I only have one person I could get some from and I told them if I asked not to let me have any and they agreed and they are moving so that fixes that.  I am proud to say that last time I was off the meds. that I never went looking for any so I know I can do this.  I say all this because I know many might think I need long term sub but I just can't afford it and I know I will be fine.

Here is where I need any of your help and please if anyone can help I would appreciate it so much as I am literally out of time.  There was a person here I thought could help me but she is sick and I haven't heard back from her.  She was going to tell me her dosage since she did a 10 day detox too.

What I need is someone to give me suggestions on a dosage plan for 10-14 days that I can suggest to my dr.  I have been talking to his receptionist and she said that he would be happy to do a short term as his way of thinking is the sooner you can be free of it all the better.  He does have mostly long term patients but I think she said there was 1 girl that is doing like I want to.

On a side note - she said the sub. rep came in the other day and the dr. asked him about short term and he said no, he didn't recommend it but the receptionist said the dr. told her later that he didn't agree with that, he said every person is different and should be helped accordingly.  Sounds like an awesome dr. to me and he only charges $300 so that is good.

So, once again, questions for you all -

1.  suggested dosage plans for 10-14 days (btw this dr. doesn't prescribe subutex only suboxone)
2.  Shouldn't I ask for the meds. in the 2mg. tablets so I can break them up when tapering towards the end?
3.  What should I use to break these up for like on the last day maybe I would do a half of 1 mg.  A razor blade?

I am sorry this is so long but please, please somebody help me.  I don't want to start on a dose that is too high since I am not on a stronger drug to begin with.

Thanks in advance!
Lyn

PS> I went and bought a high mineral multi-vitamin, melatonin, samE, 5-HTP and I have protein powder to make shakes.  I even bought flaxseed and omega3 fish oil because my goal after quitting the sub is to get healthy, join a gym, and do whatever it takes to get my body back on track.  Is there anything else I need?  I do need the Ltyrosine but they didn't have it at walmart so I will pick some up at GNC tomorrow.

[faith_hope_love]

Thanks for the tips!  Actually I just took my last  pain pill a few minutes ago at 7pm est. so I plan to start the sub tomorrow between 11 and 12 pm.  That would be about 16-17 hours in withdrawals right?  Is that long enough?

[allaboutmary]

I agree with Lonesome, start with 2 and increase by 2mg until you feel better.

[LONESOME]

what I did was I took 1 2mg sub then waited 2 o 3 hours and see how I felt if I didn't feel good bf the 2 or 3 hour then I took another right away but normally what I did was I took 1 2mg at 9am then 2mg at 12pm then 2mg at 3pm then 2mg at 7pm and 2mg at 10pm that is 10mg the first 2 days then 8mg for 4 days and so on but defenetly try to take 8 to 10 mg the first day or 2 MY OPINION ok hun Good luck is almost time right?

[faith_hope_love]

Btw, if any of you sub experts out there have any suggestions feel free. lol  I think I am just stressing myself and overthinking things.

[faith_hope_love]

First of all I hope you feel better soon.  I am kinda confused by your post though.  Are you saying your first dr. started you out on only 2mg. for the whole first day and then went to another dr. who had you take 16mg. on another day?  Then you are basically saying recently you have gotten sick (sick by meaning the flu sick?) lol  I am lost.

I don't blame you for stopping since it has been 14 days, that is my plan as well.  I mean, you should be detoxed off the vicodin by now.  The only thing is did you taper down in the last days?

I am trying to figure out what to take the first day to begin with.  Should I try 6mg. and then later in the day take the other 2mg.?  I really, really do not want to take over 8mg. in a day since it is hydro addiction.    Or should I take 4mg. and the 4mg later?  I just don't want to get sick and I want to make sure I take enough while I am in the first 4 or 5 days.

One thing I will say is that as the days pass, if I see that I need less, I will alter those last days doses and try to finish at day 10.  I just want this over with period.

[imrprod]

I have been on subs for 14 days...I was using about the same amount of vicodin you were using..I was using less the last 2 weeks.  I had a goofy doctor at first that gave me 2 mg tabs and got really sick really fast...after several days I found another doctor and got 16 mg a day...after about 4-5 days I started getting really sick again!!  I just found out I am sick from the regular doc...but I have had no subs since yesterday morning and feel fine without them..I am really thinking about just quiting it all. Been 14 days since I had any pain meds and was tapering for a couple weeks before that.  I am going to take it a day at a time but am actually going to try and see if I can take the antibiotics for my legite illness and get through any further withdrawals I might have and go ct from here.  good luck with your plan...hope you get well.

[joann1975]

You can do this...good luck!

[faith_hope_love]

I haven't figured that out yet but since it would be 8 total for the day, I am thinking trying 4 mg. in the morning and then 4 mg. in the afternoon.  The next day I am going to try 4mg. in the morning and 2mg in the afternoon and see if that is good enough.

I don't want to take too much but I also realize the first few days are when I would be in the harder withdrawals so I guess I will take one day at a time and see how it goes.

[LONESOME]

Hi Lyn I'm so happy you are doing good and full of hope that it self is a good start when going into suboxone I'm really happy for you, I do rinse my mouth before and I don't drink anything for about 5 min. after my doctor never said nothing about waiting 30 min it is probably on the instructions but I guess I'm a bad patient lol. Now you are taking the 2mg subs so are you taking 8mg together or 4mg twice a day?

[faith_hope_love]

I am back from the dr. and everything went well.  I think he was surprised that I took the time to educate myself on sub. and now I am so glad I did because from how he was talking in the beginning, I think he follows the sub. protocol strictly one way across the board.

The good news is even though I am his first patient trying the short term detox, he didn't try to change my mind and was happy to let me try this way.  I had copied both plans above (the 21 day and the 10 day) and showed them to him.  I explained that I wanted to try 10-14 days and this is the plan he came up with for me. (He also said I could start lower and adjust it accordlingly.

Day  1 - 8 mg
Day  2 - 8 mg
Day  3 - 6 mg
Day  4 - 6 mg
Day  5 - 6 mg
Day  6 - 4 mg
Day  7 - 4 mg
Day  8 - 4 mg
Day  9 - 2 mg
Day 10-2 mg
Day 11-1mg
Day 12-1mg
Day 13 - .5mg
Day 14 - .5mg
Day 15 - Done - Hooray!

I am cleaning 2 houses tomorrow with a friend to make some cash so I will take my last lortabs to get through that and plan to take my last lortab by 6 in the evening so by 10 the next morning I should be able to start my first dose of sub. (10 am will make 16 hours in withdrawals)

I will try to post daily on my progress in case people want to see how I am doing.  I know that when I was waiting to start sub., I really appreciated other's posting on their progress.

Last question - when I take this sub., first swish my mouth with hot water and then put them under my tongue to dissolve and don't drink, eat or smoke for about 30 mins. after, right?

Lyn

[faith_hope_love]

I will be leaving for the dr. in a little while and am so glad to see your post because I never did want to go over 14 days and was trying to figure out how to divide the 21 day plan above in half so what you posted is great and I will take that with me to the dr.  

Is there any questions that you all can think of that I should ask the dr.?  I am getting in shower now and will check the board one last time in about and hour and a half.  Thanks!

[flmagi]

Here's a 10 day Sub plan, should you want to do less time and be certain you don't become addicted.
day 1   6 mgs
day2    6 mgs
day3    6 mgs
day 4   6 mgs
day 5   4 mgs
day 6   4 mgs
day 7   2 mgs
day 8   2 mgs
day 9   1 mg
day 10  1/2 mg

[SableZen]

Yeah melatonin and seratonin are competitive - so you raise one you lower the other. Seratonin is higher during the day. Melatonin is higher at night. But Seratonin is naturally produced while you are asleep (and melatonin levels are high just to confuse things)... so you need both to be balancing well for full health - both emotionally and physically. A lot of those supplements directly affect one or the other. But your serotonin levels (and consequently melatonin as well) are going to be way off once you detox... so it's going to be a game of trying to help the body restore natural serotonin production/levels again.

Go to this website (Univ. of Maryland Medical Center):

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/    

...and on the left hand side of the page there is a link for Supplements where you can read up on there uses and interactions.

[faith_hope_love]

I doubt I will need the ibuprophen, I just deal with it..lol.  Let me see if I got this straight.  When I say melatonin, I am talking about the pill that helps you sleep at night.


And to worried878, the two products that I bought for mood stabilizing were samE and
5htp.  I didn't realize those products were about the same thing and you only need one so avisg recommended the 5htp so I will use that and not use the samE.

So the "methionone" you were talking about is not the same thing as the melatonin for sleep right?

[SableZen]

And congrats by the way - it sounds like you have a really good and thought out plan of action. And a good doctor... please keep us updated on the Suboxone detox!

Oh and it would probably be with your while to just buy a good quality pill cutter (they are pretty cheap).

[SableZen]

I took Ibuprofen when I had headaches or generally felt achy - and it worked like a charm. I'd take it as needed.

The only trade-off I'm aware of is that NSAIDs reduce melatonin blood levels... lots of stuff affects seratonin and melatonin levels! lol  I don't think it's dangerous at all but there may be some conflicting interactions.

[worried878]

SAMe is the same as methionone but much cheaper..important for stabizing moods...i would take it twice daily since tapering and is one i do get benefit from

[faith_hope_love]

Thanks for the help and I am glad things are going so well for you gorman.

In case anyone missed it, can I take melatonin to sleep on the night that I will have the withdrawals before I start sub. the next day?  What about ibuprophen if needed?

Thanks!

[gorman]

try the sub it worked for me.  The drug is a dream come true.

[faith_hope_love]

No, I am not on any antidepressants and except for multivitamins and lortabs, that is all.
I guess I will just use the ltyrosine and 5htp and skip the samE.  As far as when to start taking them, I don't know.  Do I start them with the sub. or do I wait until I am off the sub. to take them?

Also, I plan to wait about 16-18 hours in wd's and then start taking the sub.  Since I want to plan the start time as early in the morning as possible I figured my last lortab would be around 5 pm so my first sub would be between 9 and 11 am the next morning. (The reason being is I heard someone on here comment that taking sub at night kept them awake? Is this true?)

Also, on the night that I am withdrawals, can I take melatonin for sleep and can you take ibuprophen?

Thanks

[worried878]

There is also an example of a sub taper my pain mgt doc gave me that he has used for patients in my journal..similar to the one avis gave u..I used around ur amount daily and tapered my dose and quit...did have to hand them over to a friend as i was an awful taperer,,,and still was but managed to quit..I never used sub but if that is your plan..good luck and get clean

[avisg]

5 hpt and l'tyrosine .....was what worked for....are going to start that after you finished with the sub. you have to be careful 5 hpt and l'tyrosine if you are on or going to be on certain antidepressants

[faith_hope_love]

Thanks all for your replies and THANK YOU avisg for a dosage plan! lol  I will take that plan and ask my dr. to put it into a 14 day plan.  Maybe 8 to 10mg for the first few days instead of the 8 to 12mg and then lower the other days as well.  You are right about starting lower and then up to find my right dose.  For example, if I am real sleepy then I have taken too much?

I have been reading alot on here so that has helped alot and when I start the sub. I will start a thread for my progress and hopefully everyone can help if they see I am doing anything wrong.

Now about the vitamins and other stuff.  I had made a list for walmart and then forgot to take it with me so I was just buying from memory.

I am taking the multivitamin, fish oil and flaxseed already daily. (I know the fish oil and flaxseed aren't needed but I want to be part of my long term health plan)  I haven't started anything else yet because I am somewhat confused.

I know the melatonin is for sleep.

I didn't realize the SAM E and the 5 HTP were the same thing so which do you recommend I should use out of the two.

I still have to buy the ltyrosine...that is for energy right?

So, do I take SAM E, Ltyrosine when I start the suboxone?  Do I continue taking these products after I quit taking the sub.  All these products confuse me...lol.

Lastly, I figured out how many 2mg pills your taper plan above was and came up with 54 pills.  (Since my plan is shorter I am sure I won't need quite that much but will get them just in case)  I called Walgreens and talked to a really nice pharmacist and she said that 54 2mg. pills would be $203.  I was pleasantly surprised because I was expecting the cost to be over $300.

To broknbck, yes I have been a nervous wreck but mainly because I couldn't make up my mind what to do.  Now that I have it settled in my head I feel much better.  I have used Valerian root before and it does help.  (Or it did before I started taking pain pills and worked hard all day, it did seem to help me relax and sleep)

I know what is key to my recovery is exercise and nutrition.  We have a treadmill and I like to take my dog for long walks so that is my start and then I will build up from there.  I know if I stay busy and get lots of exercise in the day then I should start sleeping better.  

Sorry for such long posts and I love you guys and girls!  Thanks again!  Lyn

[ladyboop]

Another suggestion, If you wanted to tapper with LT's. You could give them to someone to dole out to you everyday. That is if you have someone who knows and you can trust.
  But it sounds like you have your mind set on the sub...

  Good luck...