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Help: Physical Withdrawal
Hello! I'm new to this forum. I am going on my 7th day of cold turkey withdrawal of 120mg of Oxycodone and 200mg of barbiturates per day. I was on them for 3ish years for chronic pain. My withdrawal symptoms have been almost unbearable leg and lower back pain. Also, burning in my arms, abdominal pain, and headaches. For home remedies, I've been taking hot baths with epson salts, doing a little bit of exercise (but not much due to weakness), drinking tonic water, taking magnesium, but none of it seems to even touch the pain. I have been taking benzoids to sleep, but I really don't want to keep taking them in fear I will have to withdrawal off of that too. Last night was the first night I did not take any, and I slept about two or three hours and was in so much pain. I am burnt out.
My questions are:
1. How long is the physical withdrawal? I don't have many mental symptoms yet (fingers crossed). Also, I don't know if I was on a relatively high dose and if it will take longer than the standard week for it to pass. I'm at a week now and very little has gotten better. I hope the end is near, but want to stay realistic.
2. Does anyone have ANY suggestions for the leg, back pain? It is still very bad and I am so mentally exhausted I feel like taking a low dose opioid just for a brief break in it. Is that a bad idea?
Thank you all who reply to this. Any words of advice, wisdom, encouragement, or kindness are all very greatly appreciated!
My questions are:
1. How long is the physical withdrawal? I don't have many mental symptoms yet (fingers crossed). Also, I don't know if I was on a relatively high dose and if it will take longer than the standard week for it to pass. I'm at a week now and very little has gotten better. I hope the end is near, but want to stay realistic.
2. Does anyone have ANY suggestions for the leg, back pain? It is still very bad and I am so mentally exhausted I feel like taking a low dose opioid just for a brief break in it. Is that a bad idea?
Thank you all who reply to this. Any words of advice, wisdom, encouragement, or kindness are all very greatly appreciated!
Thank you both so much for sharing your experiences. Even though it seems there is still a big struggle, you both see the light at the end of it, which is very good and hopefully encouraging. As you both mentioned, time, patience and forcing yourself to take positive measures is paramount.
NeverAgain, thank you so much for the explanation. It really contextuallized this whole concept for me. Having a more technical understanding actually makes me feel better in a way (esp the part about the animal studies). I've been doing a little research on things to help dopamine levels, so hopefully I can get a head start on it. Although I don't want to be too optimistic. I'm still struggling with the physical aspects, so only time will tell.
Thank you again so much for the replies.
NeverAgain, thank you so much for the explanation. It really contextuallized this whole concept for me. Having a more technical understanding actually makes me feel better in a way (esp the part about the animal studies). I've been doing a little research on things to help dopamine levels, so hopefully I can get a head start on it. Although I don't want to be too optimistic. I'm still struggling with the physical aspects, so only time will tell.
Thank you again so much for the replies.
I'm nearing the 6 month point and I have the same issues. Some days are good, some not so good. Lack of energy is frustrating to say the least. I have to say its still better than the pill hunt game and like you everything I've read indicates I need to first be patient and second work at the recovery. I try to keep moving at much as possible. Sometimes I have to literally force myself. I'm hoping that it helps me recover faster. Life is good and I try to savor the good and ignore the bad.
Are you taking about PAWS? It stands for Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome, and I take it to mean that after a good 6 months clean, a lot of folk find themselves depressed, unmotivated, not interested in things that they used to find pleasure in, etc.
I think it has to do with what Pillguy talked about. The human body is an amazing machine, and will habituate to pretty much anything we do to it. If we alter our minds with a drug for long enough, our brains pretty much give in and stop producing chemicals since we're eating them from the outside.
Neuronal pathways are altered. Dopamine levels go down. That's a biggie..dopamine is the neurotransmitter most closely linked with feelings of reward and pleasure. It's a fascinating chemical and affects nearly every major organ system in the body. In animal trials, monkeys or rodents will press a lever to get dopamine over food, even to the point of starvation.
For years it was thought that brain cells do not regenerate; that once you lost 'em, too bad. Luckily, that is no longer the case. We do make new brain cells, and we CAN begin to produce our own endorphins again, but it takes two things: 1. time. 2. practice.
The second one is important. I'm at the 9 month mark of being off opiates, and I can honestly say I do not enjoy much of anything these days. I used to have a zillion hobbies: baking bread, writing, blogging, painting, reading, tarot cards, palmistry, animals, true crime, etc.
I lay in bed and binge-watch Law & Order. And I'm recognizing that this is not how I want to live my life.
You didn't ask for this, but I'm going to add it anyways: I'm glad to have this forum, because I recognize so clearly now that my brain, while opiate free, has not rewired itself to it's pre-opiate state.
And so...I'm faking it 'till i make it. I'm forcing myself to come here almost every day and interact with people. Next weekend I'm going to see my daughter one state over, and I'm spending the night on her couch (sans husband!) We're going to walk all over the city and have brunch. Do I feel excited about it? Nope. I feel nothing. But I recognize that this is a false sense of my own reality. It's normal, and I WILL get the feelings of pleasure back, but I have to "prime the pump" to help my brain kick-start.
I haven't read a book since I quit the opiates. Haven't done any drawing or painting. I'm going to force myself to do these things, even if I feel "bleh" about it, because from what I'm reading, the depression and lack of pleasure will go away if I take positive action.
That's my experience anyways. I have no cravings, just depression and a feeling of "geez, is THIS all there is?" Life feels like a bunch of grays.
Also...I'm actively looking to change careers. I'm 53 and for the past 15 years I've sold health insurance, but its' a cut-throat, awful business. Right now I've got a couple of possible offers on the table...still in sales, but not so high pressure (and base salary, which would be SO MUCH LESS STRESSFUL.)
My mom is in stage 4 of leukemia. We have a very bad relationship; long, long story. It's producing some emotions in me, but often I feel absolutely nothing. Like my brain is a dial tone.
But I have faith...I'll come back. It may be in bits and pieces, but I will come back...I know because I see so many others who have 10, 20, 30 years of sobriety, and they are enjoying life to the HILT.
One of my ex-boyfriends just celebrated 30 years of sobriety in AA. He is sailing around the world. AROUND THE WORLD! He isn't super wealthy; he just found a way to do it, and said "screw it, this is my gift to myself."
Anyways, that's my 2 cents.
One final note: I hope you are out of woods w/the barbituates, in terms of seizures, but you might want to do some research about it. Benzo's will help keep seizures at bay, but I"m not a doctor, and don't want to give you prescribing advice. If you feel strange, or weird, or smell stuff that isn't there, get super dizzy, fall down, have odd sensations, I would absolutely call 911 or get yourself to an ER.
Good luck honey. I hope you stick around...
Hugs,
-Robin
I think it has to do with what Pillguy talked about. The human body is an amazing machine, and will habituate to pretty much anything we do to it. If we alter our minds with a drug for long enough, our brains pretty much give in and stop producing chemicals since we're eating them from the outside.
Neuronal pathways are altered. Dopamine levels go down. That's a biggie..dopamine is the neurotransmitter most closely linked with feelings of reward and pleasure. It's a fascinating chemical and affects nearly every major organ system in the body. In animal trials, monkeys or rodents will press a lever to get dopamine over food, even to the point of starvation.
For years it was thought that brain cells do not regenerate; that once you lost 'em, too bad. Luckily, that is no longer the case. We do make new brain cells, and we CAN begin to produce our own endorphins again, but it takes two things: 1. time. 2. practice.
The second one is important. I'm at the 9 month mark of being off opiates, and I can honestly say I do not enjoy much of anything these days. I used to have a zillion hobbies: baking bread, writing, blogging, painting, reading, tarot cards, palmistry, animals, true crime, etc.
I lay in bed and binge-watch Law & Order. And I'm recognizing that this is not how I want to live my life.
You didn't ask for this, but I'm going to add it anyways: I'm glad to have this forum, because I recognize so clearly now that my brain, while opiate free, has not rewired itself to it's pre-opiate state.
And so...I'm faking it 'till i make it. I'm forcing myself to come here almost every day and interact with people. Next weekend I'm going to see my daughter one state over, and I'm spending the night on her couch (sans husband!) We're going to walk all over the city and have brunch. Do I feel excited about it? Nope. I feel nothing. But I recognize that this is a false sense of my own reality. It's normal, and I WILL get the feelings of pleasure back, but I have to "prime the pump" to help my brain kick-start.
I haven't read a book since I quit the opiates. Haven't done any drawing or painting. I'm going to force myself to do these things, even if I feel "bleh" about it, because from what I'm reading, the depression and lack of pleasure will go away if I take positive action.
That's my experience anyways. I have no cravings, just depression and a feeling of "geez, is THIS all there is?" Life feels like a bunch of grays.
Also...I'm actively looking to change careers. I'm 53 and for the past 15 years I've sold health insurance, but its' a cut-throat, awful business. Right now I've got a couple of possible offers on the table...still in sales, but not so high pressure (and base salary, which would be SO MUCH LESS STRESSFUL.)
My mom is in stage 4 of leukemia. We have a very bad relationship; long, long story. It's producing some emotions in me, but often I feel absolutely nothing. Like my brain is a dial tone.
But I have faith...I'll come back. It may be in bits and pieces, but I will come back...I know because I see so many others who have 10, 20, 30 years of sobriety, and they are enjoying life to the HILT.
One of my ex-boyfriends just celebrated 30 years of sobriety in AA. He is sailing around the world. AROUND THE WORLD! He isn't super wealthy; he just found a way to do it, and said "screw it, this is my gift to myself."
Anyways, that's my 2 cents.
One final note: I hope you are out of woods w/the barbituates, in terms of seizures, but you might want to do some research about it. Benzo's will help keep seizures at bay, but I"m not a doctor, and don't want to give you prescribing advice. If you feel strange, or weird, or smell stuff that isn't there, get super dizzy, fall down, have odd sensations, I would absolutely call 911 or get yourself to an ER.
Good luck honey. I hope you stick around...
Hugs,
-Robin
Thank You so much for all the replies thus far. I agree with what many of you are expressing about the barbiturates. I was told awhile back by my physician that I will just get a bad headache, which is clearly not true nor safe. If I could do it again with the knowledge I have now I would have used much MUCH more discretion.
Thank you Calamity for telling me about your experience. I am most definitely not going to taking even a small amount of opiate to soften the blow, as starting at day one again sounds agonizing.
Thank you Vicki for the additional tips. I have already started the Vitamin C 1000mg as well as the increase in protein. Every little thing helps.
Pill guy, thank you for your frankness about the benzos. I knew someone who had to withdrawal from a small amount and it was a very bad experience for them. I am trying to avoid that at all costs.
I have another question for you guys. Many of you mention the mental deterioration post physical withdrawal. What exactly does that mean? Does it meaning craving the pills for a high or chronic pain relief? Depression? Anxiety? What are your experiences.
I'd really appreciate input on the subject. It is really freaking me out as I feel like it will all of a sudden come tumbling down on me. Especially if it can go on for over a year. If there is anything I can do proactively, I want to jump start on it.
Thank you again for all the encouraging words. They help more than you know!
Thank you Calamity for telling me about your experience. I am most definitely not going to taking even a small amount of opiate to soften the blow, as starting at day one again sounds agonizing.
Thank you Vicki for the additional tips. I have already started the Vitamin C 1000mg as well as the increase in protein. Every little thing helps.
Pill guy, thank you for your frankness about the benzos. I knew someone who had to withdrawal from a small amount and it was a very bad experience for them. I am trying to avoid that at all costs.
I have another question for you guys. Many of you mention the mental deterioration post physical withdrawal. What exactly does that mean? Does it meaning craving the pills for a high or chronic pain relief? Depression? Anxiety? What are your experiences.
I'd really appreciate input on the subject. It is really freaking me out as I feel like it will all of a sudden come tumbling down on me. Especially if it can go on for over a year. If there is anything I can do proactively, I want to jump start on it.
Thank you again for all the encouraging words. They help more than you know!
Another note on the benzos. Make sure that they do not become an ongoing medication for you. When the acute withdrawals are over you need to stop using the benzos. I was using 1mg per day when my doc decided I should switch to and antidepressant. I had no withdrawals at all. In contrast, people abusing the drug at high doses, long term can have extremely long recovery periods. Typically opiates users are told that it takes 1 - 2 years for the brain to fully recover. In serious benzo use it can be 10 years to life. Its nothing to be messing around with.
You've received good info here. You should have tapered off the barbituates but that's probably behind you now. Be careful with the benzos but don't freak out about using them. Do know that they are highly addictive and tolerance builds quickly. My dosage could triple over 2 weeks. The sleep they provide is a great benefit. Many of us have such addictive natures that we can't take the risk of introducting benzos into our recovery. You should be alert to the danger signs; like thinking about getting home from work so you can have some, you're increasing your dose or you're obviously abusing the medication. You are jumping off opiates at a very high dose. LIfe is going to suck for a couple weeks. Then the post acute depression. That's a tough one for many of us. Lasts maybe 4 times the length of the acute withdrawal, roughly. Then there's the ongoing battle. Aftercare works for many. There's some interesting research that's indicating that using opiates changes our brain's in a way that sets us up for future failure. Our brain remembers the good feelings more than we know and it will hit us continuously for life. The good part is that it lessens with time. This concept is critical to why you cannot use here and there. Any usage tends to short circuit your brains reward system recovery and to some degree it is kind of like starting over.
So there's the good, the bad and the ugly. Using opiates is just not sustainable. The negatives outweigh the positives over time. That's the most motivating idea for me, is that continuing use will end up bad.
So there's the good, the bad and the ugly. Using opiates is just not sustainable. The negatives outweigh the positives over time. That's the most motivating idea for me, is that continuing use will end up bad.
Hi there-
My first question for you is why are you doing this to yourself? Tapering off is much kinder but you've got 7 days behind you so that's commendable.
It's very dangerous to abruptly stop barbiturates. They MUST be tapered to avoid the seizure risk. The fortunate thing for you is that you've been taking a Benzo and that will prevent seizure activity. Don't stop that just yet and then taper when you're over this detox.
You really need to see a doctor and get some medical coverage. There are comfort meds that can be prescribed. You were on a large dose and your body is revolting. Pain increases for a time and can be paralyzingly severe so I don't blame you for wanting relief from that! Do you have pills in the house?
Get some medical support. It's so hard to say how much longer you'll feel like this; it could be almost over...
Why did you stop?
For now, keep up the hot baths; fluids; rest as much as you can but try to walk outside several times a day. Be sure you're getting potassium, magnesium, and calcium. Vitamin C will help immensely so take 1000mg morning and night. Be sure to eat or at least make protein shakes. You can get protein powder at Costco or Walmart.
Keep in touch here so we can help-
My first question for you is why are you doing this to yourself? Tapering off is much kinder but you've got 7 days behind you so that's commendable.
It's very dangerous to abruptly stop barbiturates. They MUST be tapered to avoid the seizure risk. The fortunate thing for you is that you've been taking a Benzo and that will prevent seizure activity. Don't stop that just yet and then taper when you're over this detox.
You really need to see a doctor and get some medical coverage. There are comfort meds that can be prescribed. You were on a large dose and your body is revolting. Pain increases for a time and can be paralyzingly severe so I don't blame you for wanting relief from that! Do you have pills in the house?
Get some medical support. It's so hard to say how much longer you'll feel like this; it could be almost over...
Why did you stop?
For now, keep up the hot baths; fluids; rest as much as you can but try to walk outside several times a day. Be sure you're getting potassium, magnesium, and calcium. Vitamin C will help immensely so take 1000mg morning and night. Be sure to eat or at least make protein shakes. You can get protein powder at Costco or Walmart.
Keep in touch here so we can help-
Congrats on the 7 days. I don't know anything about the barbs, but I do know about the opiate withdrawal. It will get better , if you don't use. I was a week or so clean when I used just a few ( to have a good weekend I told myself.). The withdrawal were waiting for me Monday morning , as if It were day 1.
Don't use, no matter what you try to tell yourself.
Don't use, no matter what you try to tell yourself.
The mental part usually comes after the physical has subsided. Your body is drained from the physical that your mind probably hasn't caught up yet. The mental game is what will send you into wanting more of your drug of choice. Do you have any doctors involved in your care? Any family or friends that you have confided in? Hang in there, the view from the top will be worth it.
Yikes...yes, you were on a fairly high dose, but I've hear of worse.
How old are you? That will determine, to some extent, how long the withdrawals will last.
My real concern here is not the oxycodone. As miserable as the withdrawals are, they usually are not fatal unless you have some other underlying health problems going on.
No, I'm more worried about the barbitutates. The standard therapeutic dose for adults is 30-120 mgs a day. The level you've been taking is given to patients sometimes before surgery. Barbituates can be dangerous to withdraw from, leading to seizures and even death..even if you're taking a lower dose, but are addicted to them. If I'm scaring you, good...I really, REALLY don't want to see something bad happen to you, so please get some medical attention as soon as you can.
It's your life we're talking about here; we only get one of them. Don't be too proud or afraid to ask for help. You could walk into an ER and simply tell the truth.
At one week, I'm not surprised you still feel pretty crappy. Please consider my words carefully....and get some medical attention. God Bless..
Hugs,
-Robin
How old are you? That will determine, to some extent, how long the withdrawals will last.
My real concern here is not the oxycodone. As miserable as the withdrawals are, they usually are not fatal unless you have some other underlying health problems going on.
No, I'm more worried about the barbitutates. The standard therapeutic dose for adults is 30-120 mgs a day. The level you've been taking is given to patients sometimes before surgery. Barbituates can be dangerous to withdraw from, leading to seizures and even death..even if you're taking a lower dose, but are addicted to them. If I'm scaring you, good...I really, REALLY don't want to see something bad happen to you, so please get some medical attention as soon as you can.
It's your life we're talking about here; we only get one of them. Don't be too proud or afraid to ask for help. You could walk into an ER and simply tell the truth.
At one week, I'm not surprised you still feel pretty crappy. Please consider my words carefully....and get some medical attention. God Bless..
Hugs,
-Robin
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