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Help with daughter on Suboxone
My 24 year old has been on Heroin (injecting) for about 3 years. Also, just about any other thing from pills to cocaine etc. She has gone to numerous inpatient programs and have done what I could for her to become drug free. My question is she is now on Suboxone which I have found information on the internet about but feel she is abusing it & sharing the pills. She started on the Suboxone 4 weeks ago. First prescription 7 pills & doctor wanted her to come back in a week. First couple day's she took the pill one each day under tongue. 3rd day she went out & did not take pill before leaving. She came home that evening I know higher then a kite. She was on something! She wind up staying up all night & next morning freaking out needing her pill she could not find where should put them. She was loosing it. Anyway, come the 4th day the last 3 pills were gone & she would go out each night & come home and not needing her pill. So the last 3 day's she had no pill went out each night & came home on something. Of course we had it out. Anyway, She got another prescription on Monday afternoon for 14 pills this time & doctor wants to see her back in 2 weeks. It is Wednesday morning & she is sleeping right now. I found the Suboxone and 6 pills are gone. I am at my wits end with her. She expresses she wants the help she say's it is okay for her to miss a dose, she say's she only needs to take the Suboxone if needed. I feel she is using the Suboxone as a subsitute when she can't get her Heroin. I feel she is sharing her pills with other people who might be going through withdrawl also. The Suboxone is 8mg-2mg. I have been paying out of pocket for these because I want to see her well. I am NOT buying her stories!! What happens if she uses drugs one day & Suboxone the next. I really need to know how this works. There is more to this whole story but feel I said enough now. If anyone can please help me!!!!!!!! Thank you!
There are NO answers to addiction only two questions; why and the other WHY ME? There are thousands of parents enabling their offspring. These parents hit their knees when they hear their loved one is incarcerated because now they know where they are. County jails have become the rehab of this day; one can see them building larger prisons in virtually every county. Buprenorphine (Subutex-Suboxone) is life-saving especially for people with chronic pain and they respond to the medication. Unfortunately, fear, superstition, and fixed ideas are preventing lawmakers from making buprenorphine a less restrictive path for help Buprenorphine has a ceiling effect and one would stand a greater chance of being struck by lightning than overdosing on buprenorphine; with buprenorphine the less you take the more pain relief you get, LESS is MORE. Buprenorphine also has the unique ability to change a persons' perception of their pain without affecting their behavior (you don't act like an *** and you stop hurting your loved ones) It is almost miraculous to watch someone very sick from dope on their third day of abstinence full-blown eyes watering nose running diarrhea go to the Dr. or a friend put a tablet under their tongue and watch as everything disappears, and within two hours you have your loved one back. The only drawback is if you need an opiate for surgery the anesthesiologist will need triple the dose to overcome buprenorphine blockade of the receptors; buprenorphine binds to the opiate receptors. Addiction is challenging lifelong illness that affects every aspect of a persons life and those around them. I empathize with those that are in crisis unable to afford buprenorphine treatment.
1 Comments
Unfortunately bup comes also with challenges. We are in the UK and my husband was given it as part of his detox treatment. He's been on and off it for 10 years. It's never got rid of addiction and just provided him with a stop gap. He plays around with his doc heroin and when he knew he had to pass a urine test he'd go back to his subatex. It may help alot who are really ready to stop.
Addiction is a vile disease. It rips family's apart which it has done to ours. We are no longer together. It's not a miracle drug and the recipient still has to want to get clean.
Addiction is a vile disease. It rips family's apart which it has done to ours. We are no longer together. It's not a miracle drug and the recipient still has to want to get clean.
i am so sorry for you pain...I have 3 daughters and i never know what is in store for me...One thing i do know is i would sell my soul for my children.. i would hope i don't enable, but i could not turn my back...I hope i could do some type of tough love, but i could never give up on my children...And if my husband would of gave up on me, i would never be clean now..
i pray that things get better, and that she finally wants it,,,
god bless you
r2r
i pray that things get better, and that she finally wants it,,,
god bless you
r2r
boy oh boy, I have been in your daughters shoes. I started with heroin at 15 yrs old. didn't stop til I was 19. wasn't a very long addiction but it was awful and it caused alot of pain for everyone. i was a young kid and thought I had the world by the balls. Its hard as a young person to realize they are playing with their life. It took seeing 10 friends die, losing my family and living in my car for 2 weeks to realize this wasn't a life to live. I had already been to rehab 4 times. The 5th time stuck. i had finally "got it" I had 8 years clean from heroin on oct 16th.
From my research of Sub you cannot take naloxone or naltrexone with it. Since Sub is a opiate they will counteract each other so to speak. Yes Suboxone does contain naloxone but its a small amount and does not absorb into the body sublingually as Sub is used. The naloxone is only really an acitve medicine if its injected with the Sub. Talk to her doctor and make sure.
From my research of Sub you cannot take naloxone or naltrexone with it. Since Sub is a opiate they will counteract each other so to speak. Yes Suboxone does contain naloxone but its a small amount and does not absorb into the body sublingually as Sub is used. The naloxone is only really an acitve medicine if its injected with the Sub. Talk to her doctor and make sure.
So glad you & your Mom are doing well. It gives me hope!! I wish you only the best!!!! Keep us informed!
I have the suboxone now & I give her one each day & have her show me it is under her tongue! She tries then slips! She has been afraid to go to NA & she feels she really doesn't have a problem that she can't control. I told her she HAS to give the meetings a chance. Things go back & forth at times but doing the best I can! I'll keep you informed! Thank you all sooooooooooooo much for being here! May God bless ALL of us!!!!!!!
I was on Heroin for about 8years. I am 28 now and lived with my parents all time i was using. I have been on Methadone for over 2yrs now and am not using any Heroin.
While i was still using Heroin i put my mum through absolute hell!! Mum didn't know for first year i was on it but she obviously had her suspisions and knew something was wrong. I used every excuse to get money off her. When i did admit to her i was on Heroin we went to see drugs counsellor to get on methadone script and i promised by mum that if she could just help me out with money till i got on methadone then i wouldn't have to see the people i was hanging around with and i'd try and cut down etc etc. I know some people may think its disgusting my mum giving me money to buy drugs but she really thought she was helping me and that at least if she knew where i was i'd be safe.
Over 8years i borrowed and conned that much money from my family they ended up getting a second mortgage which they couldn't pay and having to sell house andmove to a smaller one. It wasn't all down to me but most of ot was. My mum and dad nearly split up and are still not right now. My dad wanted to do the tough love thing and throw me out house but mam just could not bear the thought of getting the dreaded phone call saying i was dead and if i was still under her roof at least she knew i was still alive.
It does sound like your daughter is giving her medication away or probably swapping her tablets for heroin ormoney to get heroin. i used to do it with my methadone.
I don't know what the best advice is but all i can tell you is that if my mum hadn't of always kept her door open for me and been there when i needed her i don't think i'd be alive now.
After a while my mum learnt that she wasn't really helping me giving me money but i used to tell her all sorts to get money, some of the things i used to tell her to get money is just horrible but i couldn't see that then. i have also been violent with mum which i am absolutely ashamed to say. I loved mum but you don't think about all hurt you are causing and i'm sure your daughter is not meaning to put you through this, in fact i know she isn't. I have diabetes as well which was another worry for mum as she felt as though if she wasn't there for me who would remind me to keep taking insulin and i can honestly say if it wasn't for her i wouldn't have.
I got an abcess on my liver, dvt and septicemia through injecting and if it wasn't for my mum dragging me to hospital dr's said i probably wouldn't have lived another day. That still didn't stop me. I tried loads of times to come off heroin by going on methadone and failed because i wasn't ready to. WHen i eventually did decide i really had had enough i found it alot easier than i thought it would be because i actually wanted todo it.
I started off on 30mls of methadone and had my prescription put up 10mll per wk to 140mls untill i stopped using. I was using alot of heroin at time. I didn't stop using instantly the minute i went on to methadone but gradually cut it out as my methadone dose went up and it did take a while for me to adjust to not seeing the people i normally would. I found it quite lonely coming off heroin as i had lost touch with all my friends who weren't addicts so if your daughter has friends who are not on drugs try and encourage her to spend time with them. There is only so much you can do and you do need other people to talk to other than parents. If she doesn't have many friends who are not users you could encourage her to go online to forum like this or somewhere similar where other people going through same thing. It might take a while for your daughter to get on to the dose she needs and some time to get her head round it.
I know some people on subutex that miss tablet some days so that they can use Heroin. They say Heroin doesn't work when you've had tablet but if you miss it that day that Heroin works just the same.
I would be careful with Noloxone because if she's telling you she's not using but is and she takes the naloxone then she's going to really regret it as it will send her into instant withdrawal which i know from experience is terrible. When i was in hospital with liver abcess i had drain on my liver. It was in the wrong place so i had to had it moved. The idiot dr who was head of radiology suprisingly enough who had pu it in wrong place in first place did not check what medication i was on which was methadone and morphine and gave me an injection of nuphaine as a pain killer. Within few minutes i was throwing up, had diarrehea(don't know how to spell it) and was in the worst pain of my life which lasted for 8hours. I was given injection of morphine afterwards but it did not stop the nuphaine working as it does something to receptors in your brain that stops the methadone working. Nuphaine is a pain killer but does not react well with meathadone and some other opiates and reverses the effects of methadone same as naloxone.Naloxone is used to give to patients who have overdosed on heroin to reverse its effects. I also know someone who took naltrexone tablet on night and had used heroin on morning and he went into instant withdrawal which he could not stop even by taking more heroin.
I'm really sorry this is such a long post and i know i haven't been much use to you and i'mso sorry if i'ver worried you more than you already were but i just wanted you to know that she will stop but she has to want to and it may not happen overnight it didn't for me but once i was on right dose of methadone and had got my head round things and wanted to stop i did.
Methadone is supposed to be worse to come off than heroin but it has enabled me to get on with my life without doing all the things that ruin your life involved with heroin. I also know people on subetex doing really well. When i was on heroin i spent most of my time trying to get the money for it and waiting around to score it and when you stop its strange not doing them things all time.
good luck with your daughter and her recovery.
While i was still using Heroin i put my mum through absolute hell!! Mum didn't know for first year i was on it but she obviously had her suspisions and knew something was wrong. I used every excuse to get money off her. When i did admit to her i was on Heroin we went to see drugs counsellor to get on methadone script and i promised by mum that if she could just help me out with money till i got on methadone then i wouldn't have to see the people i was hanging around with and i'd try and cut down etc etc. I know some people may think its disgusting my mum giving me money to buy drugs but she really thought she was helping me and that at least if she knew where i was i'd be safe.
Over 8years i borrowed and conned that much money from my family they ended up getting a second mortgage which they couldn't pay and having to sell house andmove to a smaller one. It wasn't all down to me but most of ot was. My mum and dad nearly split up and are still not right now. My dad wanted to do the tough love thing and throw me out house but mam just could not bear the thought of getting the dreaded phone call saying i was dead and if i was still under her roof at least she knew i was still alive.
It does sound like your daughter is giving her medication away or probably swapping her tablets for heroin ormoney to get heroin. i used to do it with my methadone.
I don't know what the best advice is but all i can tell you is that if my mum hadn't of always kept her door open for me and been there when i needed her i don't think i'd be alive now.
After a while my mum learnt that she wasn't really helping me giving me money but i used to tell her all sorts to get money, some of the things i used to tell her to get money is just horrible but i couldn't see that then. i have also been violent with mum which i am absolutely ashamed to say. I loved mum but you don't think about all hurt you are causing and i'm sure your daughter is not meaning to put you through this, in fact i know she isn't. I have diabetes as well which was another worry for mum as she felt as though if she wasn't there for me who would remind me to keep taking insulin and i can honestly say if it wasn't for her i wouldn't have.
I got an abcess on my liver, dvt and septicemia through injecting and if it wasn't for my mum dragging me to hospital dr's said i probably wouldn't have lived another day. That still didn't stop me. I tried loads of times to come off heroin by going on methadone and failed because i wasn't ready to. WHen i eventually did decide i really had had enough i found it alot easier than i thought it would be because i actually wanted todo it.
I started off on 30mls of methadone and had my prescription put up 10mll per wk to 140mls untill i stopped using. I was using alot of heroin at time. I didn't stop using instantly the minute i went on to methadone but gradually cut it out as my methadone dose went up and it did take a while for me to adjust to not seeing the people i normally would. I found it quite lonely coming off heroin as i had lost touch with all my friends who weren't addicts so if your daughter has friends who are not on drugs try and encourage her to spend time with them. There is only so much you can do and you do need other people to talk to other than parents. If she doesn't have many friends who are not users you could encourage her to go online to forum like this or somewhere similar where other people going through same thing. It might take a while for your daughter to get on to the dose she needs and some time to get her head round it.
I know some people on subutex that miss tablet some days so that they can use Heroin. They say Heroin doesn't work when you've had tablet but if you miss it that day that Heroin works just the same.
I would be careful with Noloxone because if she's telling you she's not using but is and she takes the naloxone then she's going to really regret it as it will send her into instant withdrawal which i know from experience is terrible. When i was in hospital with liver abcess i had drain on my liver. It was in the wrong place so i had to had it moved. The idiot dr who was head of radiology suprisingly enough who had pu it in wrong place in first place did not check what medication i was on which was methadone and morphine and gave me an injection of nuphaine as a pain killer. Within few minutes i was throwing up, had diarrehea(don't know how to spell it) and was in the worst pain of my life which lasted for 8hours. I was given injection of morphine afterwards but it did not stop the nuphaine working as it does something to receptors in your brain that stops the methadone working. Nuphaine is a pain killer but does not react well with meathadone and some other opiates and reverses the effects of methadone same as naloxone.Naloxone is used to give to patients who have overdosed on heroin to reverse its effects. I also know someone who took naltrexone tablet on night and had used heroin on morning and he went into instant withdrawal which he could not stop even by taking more heroin.
I'm really sorry this is such a long post and i know i haven't been much use to you and i'mso sorry if i'ver worried you more than you already were but i just wanted you to know that she will stop but she has to want to and it may not happen overnight it didn't for me but once i was on right dose of methadone and had got my head round things and wanted to stop i did.
Methadone is supposed to be worse to come off than heroin but it has enabled me to get on with my life without doing all the things that ruin your life involved with heroin. I also know people on subetex doing really well. When i was on heroin i spent most of my time trying to get the money for it and waiting around to score it and when you stop its strange not doing them things all time.
good luck with your daughter and her recovery.
Tell your daughter if she wants to remain in your home and you will pass out the meds to her, Next time she goes to the sub doctor ask if he will write a separate script for 50mg of naloxone 1 per day this will definitely block the heroin, Its is not as costly as the suboxone which has only 2mg of naloxone which less than 2% enter the system sublingually. Crush the naloxone in orange juice and watch her drink it, do not let her use the bathroom for half an hour after she drinks the OJ for 1 week. There is no way she will feel the euphoric effects of the herion, thats what she misses most.
OPIATE ADDICTION IS A TREATABLE CHRONIC DISEASE OF THE BRAIN!!! ------NOAH
OPIATE ADDICTION IS A TREATABLE CHRONIC DISEASE OF THE BRAIN!!! ------NOAH
I feel I have tried "ALOT" from inpatient, outpatient, Marchman acting her, not letting her back in my home. I "KNOW" for a fact she will die on the streets! Me as a mother coming to grips with that & putting it in GOD's hands. Each day I wake up not knowing if she will awake, when she leave's if she will come home, if I get a phone call. Nobody in my family seems to understand pretty much in denial. It was hard me facing my daughter is an addict. But she is also a daughter, a grandaughter, a sister, a friend & deserves to be treated as a person. Believe me I feel I have done my homework!! Money I know should not mean that much and NO price I can put on my daughter but my savings is wiped out. Last rehab was almost $15,000.00. She tells me what I want to hear & at times crumbles and asks for my help. She can't make it at home, she can't make it on the streets! I live each day like she is on a life support machine wondering if today is the day! I know all about enabeling, tough love etc. I have done intervention etc. Things have happened that are HUGE from hospitals to where she weighed 85lbs. and took 4 nurses to get one ounce of blood to a phone call where she was in a ditch dirty, drunk, druged up! I just exist each day & do alot of praying!!!!!!!!! Thank you sooo much for support I really, really need it even just to vent. Also, she was diagnosed with Hepitatis C 6 months ago which nothing has been done. I have talked to police, counselors etc. to please help me & since she is 24 there's nothing I can do. I just hope & pray to GOD each day that she will see the light before it is too late! I have turned my back on her & each time almost lost her LITERALY! My patience is running out & I try not to think of myself but tears & worry fill my life! Thank you so much for listening. I can't talk to anyone I know because therer sick of it!
It sounds like you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. You are also right, it sounds to me as if she is only using the subs when she runs out of the heroin. I know this may sound harsh, but don't get her anymore subs. SHE is the only one who can determine when she will be ready to get clean, and while you are truly being a good parent, sometimes a little tough love can go a long way. I know that is much easier said than done, but if you haven't tried it yet, and nothing else has worked, give it a shot and see what happens. I'm really really sorry to hear this story, and I sincerely hope it all works out for you and your daughter!
When I read posts like this I never used to think about the "victim" when I was in rehab part of the courses that I had to complete was call "victims awareness" as addicts we leave victims everywhere we go......
I was always the addict and never thought about your side as the victim but now I see things through a different set of eyes.......
this is the area that is so tough and really sucks because you have to realize that it does not matter what you do or what you say or what you threaten she has to want help first........
Heroin addiction is the hardest addiction of any drug psychologically to recover from.....in fact the percentages for a successful recovery even with professional help is only 38%
For the heroin addict fighting for recovery will relapse 98% of the time....
Tough love they say is what your suppose to do you let them go until they crash and burn so they will get help...but how do you ask a loving parent to let there kids go and throw them out of the house and hope they crash and burn nicely and don't get hurt to bad and then get them into the proper help they need.....
At the same time the mental anguish a parent goes through to watch their son or daughter go through suck a self destructive time leaving victims everywhere with their stealing, lies etc.......
personally to a person who is a heroin addict and has 37 yrs of active addiction only inpatient rehab will save her.....
The judge knowing my history and dealing with addicts everyday knew he had to send me to an addiction behavior inpatient rehab before he could send me to a drug rehab....because you brain is so damaged your thinking and emotions are so distorted that has to be changed before you can be receptive to any type of drug rehab........
Your in a bad situation with your daughter and I wish you luck.......
Your in for a very tough time with her.........
If you have any questions please feel free to ask me or for more private send me a private message here and I can answer your questions there too........
I was always the addict and never thought about your side as the victim but now I see things through a different set of eyes.......
this is the area that is so tough and really sucks because you have to realize that it does not matter what you do or what you say or what you threaten she has to want help first........
Heroin addiction is the hardest addiction of any drug psychologically to recover from.....in fact the percentages for a successful recovery even with professional help is only 38%
For the heroin addict fighting for recovery will relapse 98% of the time....
Tough love they say is what your suppose to do you let them go until they crash and burn so they will get help...but how do you ask a loving parent to let there kids go and throw them out of the house and hope they crash and burn nicely and don't get hurt to bad and then get them into the proper help they need.....
At the same time the mental anguish a parent goes through to watch their son or daughter go through suck a self destructive time leaving victims everywhere with their stealing, lies etc.......
personally to a person who is a heroin addict and has 37 yrs of active addiction only inpatient rehab will save her.....
The judge knowing my history and dealing with addicts everyday knew he had to send me to an addiction behavior inpatient rehab before he could send me to a drug rehab....because you brain is so damaged your thinking and emotions are so distorted that has to be changed before you can be receptive to any type of drug rehab........
Your in a bad situation with your daughter and I wish you luck.......
Your in for a very tough time with her.........
If you have any questions please feel free to ask me or for more private send me a private message here and I can answer your questions there too........
Also, I want to add.. I have been through ALL the ups & downs with her & trying so hard to be patient.I DO NOT want to enable any of this. She has an answer for everything. I know if I give up on her she WILL die!! She has been close a few times. I feel I am just spinning my wheels! I know it takes time! But I feel if she is using the suboxone for a subsitute when she is not on anything it really is not helping her. My entire family & immediate family are FED UP!! I am in this battle alone. I have told her to leave the house & she has left only for day's later to get a call in the middle of the night for me to please help her!! She has been beat up, lived on the streets, stolen everything just about that comes with addiction! We have had numerous talks. I know she has to WANT the help. She say's she does but she is still on something her behavior is from talking a mile a minute to anger, to sweet, all these moods not knowing one day to the next what it is going to be. She manipulates the situation & tells me I am perinoid, I have to trust her etc.etc. how can I when I know she is still on something. She continues to deny she is doing anything wrong. When she came home this last time before she got on the Suboxone without getting into a huge story I almost lost her! I thought she was dead! Unresponsive etc. Authorities, permedics etc. came. Now she is on the Suboxone & not taking it like she should & still on something. I don't know what to do!!!! PLEASE HELP!!
welcome kimbie! it is early yet so please be patient. there are several people here that can help you. i am no expert on sub but there are others that are. it sounds like your daughter has a serious problem and a great mom. my daughter is the same age. i am so sorry you are having to go through this. hang in here and keep checking.
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