How do you become grateful?

[lifeisbetter]

Feel free to break this thread, especially if you have a withdrawel question or if your in pain. I don't know how I have been able to post twice this week.

Anyway,I've been told that a grateful addict will never relapse. If thats the truth I am in trouble. It seems to me the only time I remember to be grateful is when I read posts on this site. If I think about it I am happy to be free of the constant torture of seeking the pills,but thats only when I think about it. If I am totally honest I have to admit I miss the chase and capture of a new batch of pills. Sick I know. I think when I go about my daily life I have this underlying feeling of the "poor me's". I have a great time at my job and find myself laughing out loud often, but as soon as I get home I fall into the old routine of being basically "useless" like when I was taking the pills. I do the bare minimum for my household to function. I've been clean for 5 monthes and I haven't been able to break this pattern. Any suggestions?

[Fitzgibbons]

After reading that last message, the one I just wrote... I apologize if it jumps a bit, everything didn't exactly come out the way I meant it to. Sorry.

But none the less and for the record, if you feel like your not useful and or not doing what you need to do while your at home, do alittle more maybe? Do what YOU need to do to make YOU feel good. Its not uncommon to feel like sh*t between sessions.

By sessions I mean, between times your mind is so pre-occupied (yea, I know, I can't spell... I don't think?) w/things it forgets about secondary thoughts like cravings, ie: eating, drugs, etc..

I just scrolled up and realized all I've been doing is giving my opinion on some things, not even actually answering them, and thats what you asked isn't it? For help, usually in the form of an answer. I guess I have plenty of my own problems and I was rambling, which I was, sorry for that.

[Fitzgibbons]

After reading that last message, the one I just wrote... I apologize if it jumps a bit, everything didn't exactly come out the way I meant it to. Sorry.

But none the less and for the record, if you feel like your not useful and or not doing what you need to do while your at home, do alittle more maybe? Do what YOU need to do to make YOU feel good. Its not uncommon to feel like sh*t between sessions.

By sessions I mean, between times your mind is so pre-occupied (yea, I know, I can't spell... I don't think?) w/things it forgets about secondary thoughts like cravings, ie: eating, drugs, etc..

I just scrolled up and realized all I've been doing is giving my opinion on some things, not even actually answering them, and thats what you asked isn't it? For help, usually in the form of an answer. I guess I have plenty of my own problems and I was rambling, which I was, sorry for that.

[Fitzgibbons]

How do I become grateful? I'm defidentally the wrong person to answer that question, so I'm not going to. But I can say this, you've at least grabbed the attention of the people replying to you, which I personally think is worth more than nothing, which means you've touched and become a part of even, with your question alone, the number of people that at least read (all I'm sure of whom responded), yourself included, of course. :)

You mentioned you heard a grateful addict will never relapse? Personally, I don't think there is such a thing as a grateful addict, you don't sound grateful, are you? I can't imagine you, and or anyone else would be. (I think I'm an addict, and I'm not grateful... (note: I say I think I am..)

That time after, before, between work, or where-ever it fits in that you feel that way around the house, what exactly is there to do? You have kids? Gotta clean up after them? a husband/wife? Maybe you don't have enough to do to feel usefull? or maybe there is so much to be done you know you just can't do it, or not do it right, and you feel like **** because you know your never going to do what YOU think everyone around you expects you to do? I dunno...

I can only say I wish you didn't feel the way you do, wether I read you right or not (most likely not, I'm sorry for that...) But with alittle detail, if you feel up to it, I'd be more than happy to at least try to give most likely not help in making it better, but peace of mind to help make yourself feel right. If that makes any sense.

Take care... and good luck.
Frank

[tex3]

Typo-I'm sorry! The address is ***@****

[tex3]

Understand completely. Write to ***@****. Will be online for a bit longer.

[JR.]

Give me an e-mail to drop you a line. I can't give mine out and I will tell you when we talk as to why.

[angst]

my name is ava, i am glad to meet you.  you have a burden of the terminal illness close by, and that hurts.  i kept my mother at home for her 5mo 7days alive after the initial diagnosis.  she made me promise no hospital.  i was a nurse then and could take care of her. momma had a sitter who was a true angel.  she was the one who took mother on her last outing.  as it got closer to death, the coma, and death, it became very hard.  i lived through
it.  i have not resolved her death and i still grieve for her.
i am on methadone maintenance for the second time.  the first time, i was on almost 2 years.  i went to NA, and it helped tremendously.  i was clean 6 months after detoxing from methadone
i had 2 relapses, and 2 rehabs.  the nursing board had their critera, and i had needs.  i told the doctor she was not treating me, but the licensure board's critera.  the put me on a slow phenobarb taper for my benzo use which was not the problem.
i'd been on benzo's for 22 years, since i was 14 years old.  the
phenobard made sure i had no seizure, but i did have a heart attack.  after my 3rd relapse, i ran back to the methadone clinic
where i obtain my methadone, conselling, and group therapy, all for $11/day.  that is change to what i spent on the street.  i am
maintaining.  but i do not feel in limbo. i feel like i am learning for needs that will arise in the future.  i do not have
a time limit for the methadone.  i will know when it is time to
detox, as i did before when i detoxed.  Good luck to you.  the time for you to detox completely will come.  NA might really help
you make the adjustment easier.  it did for me.

[dunit]

Well guys it's been more than a month  since I've posted, So much going on with work and my fmaily. My father in law is in the hospital and just been diagnosed with a termanal illness.

I read your posts everyday and they keep me going.I just want to hug each new person who tells us of the hurt and pain they are having, its so familiar. I want to reach out to those of you who love an addict like addictsmom(you started posting with me in March--- bet we're about the same age!) and jen1 and short and give you guys a bear hug and tell you how great you are-they say is is harder from the other side--I wouldnt know , but we need you if you can take it--and I think you are wonderful for supporting the one you live, it must be so hard.-I love my husband so much for staying with me and supporting me---I truly feel I would not make it without him.
I wish I had the answers. I have been an addict for over 20 years.... God it has been a long very tireing road...I just want to get to the end.
I have been on bupernex since March 9th, down to an amp every 12 hours,but like groovy its so scary to say thats it! Never again...wow..what if someone told you that you could never taste chocolate again--ever?? sometimes I feel like I will never be totaly clean and sober---but I sure am trying! will I make it??? some days I just don't know. But I have a 13 year old daughter that needs me and does not need to see me wasted EVER again.
Have been using Thomas's recipe for 2 1/2 months , not sure if it is really making a difference.(any comment would be appreciated)----- like some of you said, when I stop I just have to be in for some rough months.MORE rough months...........
I just want to wake up and be happy and sing with the birds and go to bed with a good feeling.
I've tryed anti depressents but they never helped me, guess I'm not depressed??? sure feels like it.
I wanted to say hi to ken and welcome.  Please stay with us, read , post if you can.

[JR.]

Hey man,

I haven't had the pleasure of meeting you yet but I am JR. I too was on the other side of the Texas Penal Code for 18 years. As a matter of fact, I was in Law Enforcement for 18 years until my 12 year vicodin addiction caught up to me on May 31st of 2001. I too live a little north of Austin. I just celebrated my 1 year anniversary at AA tonight and I am now 370 days clean.

I would truly like to hear your story. I feel like we probably have a lot in common. Drop me a post.

[OxyDout]

Hey groovy, its a good thought.  I might even try it out, but I will have to save $$ because my insurance doesn't cover  it, and yes it is expensive. Do you know any good dr.'s in the area????

[tex3]

Hi JR! Good to hear from someone close by, although we are actually moving south in a few weeks; a big reason (no surprise) to get away from everything here.
I worked for 10 years (full-time) while going to college and raising three kids. I had incredible energy and drive. But I'd also always enjoyed painkillers; whatever form, whenever I came across them. It never became a real "problem" until I'd had a couple of surgeries for chronic pelvic pain, which nothing relieved. I was referred to a pain specialist and left my first appt in glee; an endless supply of pills! By that time I'd left a two-year PR job at a law enforcement agency, and was starting another closer to home. I stayed there for about two years. I was quickly declining, though, and it was obvious. After my first year on the pills I went into detox; I kind of accepted I had a problem, but not totally. My bosses knew everything and accepted it; they even commended me for seeking help. Of course, I was civilian, but drove an unmarked and spoke for the agency.
I was still in pain but mainly loved the pills. I stayed of vics for many months but was on buprenex, and did okay.
In December I was switched from bup back to norco. I quickly got worse than ever. I don't even know if I was in much pain at first, although I did have a major problem a few months later. I was prescribed 15 pills a day and usually took 20, so was always short and having problems. Missed a lot of work. My mind was shot and I forgot whole days. I was a wreck and I knew it. My job suffered; my marriage suffered fell apart; my reputation was going to ****. Just at that point I had another major pelvic problem that required surgery. I was determined that after the surgery I would quit the pills, even if I still had pain. Living with pain would be better than living as an addict. You know the story: living each minute worrying about where the next pill will come from. I used for many years but only regularly for two; that was enough. I missed a lot of my kids' lives.
I had surgery in March and went through a terrible recovery; my tolerance was so high I took 30 pills a day for relief. God knows what my liver looks like. I had other problems I won't go into here.
One week after surgery I went to my addiction doctor and got off the pills. He put me through an at-home detox similar to what I'd done inpatient. Right before the surgery I'd quit my job in a huff; I'm sure the pills had a lot to do with that.
I've been clean since April 1 and it feels great. I don't have a job, but I do have my family back, and my life. My energy is back and the cravings are, for now, under control. I don't delude myself that they won't ever hit again; I really struggled a few weeks ago. But I am in control of my life and it feels great.
Now, please tell me your story! If you want to write privately, I will give you my email address. I'd love to talk to you. Yes, I was civilian but my job was working strictly with cops so I almost felt like one, plus I was constantly under a public glare....I know what you must have gone through.
Please write and talk to me. What are you doing now?
t

[angst]

when i read your prose, i did not think that was you.  i mistakenly gave credit elsewhere.  i did not know you had that inside of you.  it is bitter sweet.  for alot of us addicts who
have been on the street, it makes my heart jump a beat.  i lost
friends out there.  it is just what appears to be an unfair loss.
one of my friends od'd right before he was due to go back to prison on parole violations.  they found him in the bathtub, the rig still in his arm.  he was not going back.  hell was here on
earth for him, and he was going to try the other side.
Thanks for the prose.  it reminds many of us (esp. me) to stay
humble and grateful.   Ava

[tex3]

Hi Jen. I really think you will start to feel better very soon. The dread and depression still hit me at times, but I'm not consumed with it. I noticed the change gradually, and after a month it seemed better. I can't pinpoint a day, but I feel pretty good now. The depression is gone, my energy level is almost normal (actually better than when I was using) and I don't feel hopeless. That was the worst thing for me; feeling so hopeless, like live held nothing for me, even though I knew it did. At times I thought I was only sticking around so my kids would have a mother. Not to the point that I ever actually thought about harming myself, but I was apathetic or worse, truly sad.
I hope you feel better. You're through much of the worst, and are very strong for making it! Please keep it up and have faith that you will get through this. We abused ourselves for so long, it makes sense that it will be a long haul to recovery.

[hippy]

i hope you are doing and feelig well. always good to see your
post. I know you saw a lot of death and pain in life and when you were a nurse working with cancer patients, that must have been  a difficult job for you. I'm sure seeing your daughter
brings a lot of joy to your heart. well i hope the weekend is treating you good.
As far as that age old question WHY????.
one of the first things my sponser had me wrie on was WHY DID I USE. of course when i was a kid , you could say it was peer pressure, me being the only white kid in the ghetto where i  
grew up as a young teenager. the black kids my own age, in my hood did not like me because i was different i was white, and the white kids where i went to school did not like me because i lived in the black part of town on the other side of the rail road tracks.
As life went on and i got my girlfreind pregnent at the age of 17
i had to quit highschool in my senior year, and get married and was given a union card. At that point in my life i just used drugs everyday and worked, and stole cars, and dealt drugs.
No wonder i hated myself down deep, i was voilating most of my own boundries, being raised a christian and all.
My basic attitude was screw the world.
the next thing , i bought a house for my new wife and child, but before we even moved into it , our realationship was over.
just anther reason, to get high.
so i rented the house out and moved to an apt. in center city phila.It was 1981 and i met my next wife to be and she had our son before we were married. drugs wre still number 1, i rember she found about 20 qualudes and was going to flush them , but i stopped her by offering her 500.00 for them, of course she said fine,they were only worth 100.00 , tyhats how crazy i was.

back to the question WHY,---why did i use drugs, --because i hated myself and i hated the life i was living........



peace   michael

[jen52]

Hi, Its me again and I'm trying to be grateful but I am getting desperate!  I have been off the pills for 3 weeks now.  Every morning I wake up with such unbearable dread.  How long does this go on for, weeks, months, somebody please tell me.  I have had my antidepressant increased for almost a month now, I don't let it stop me from doing what I need to do (as hard as that can be) I excercise, do morning meditations, go to na meetings, talk to my sponsor, read this forum ,take kava kava. Does anyone have any suggestions?
thanks, Jen

[hippy]

thanks for the words of inspriation,
i have been well schooled in religion.' but i must say it has been my experence that as addicts we need to get better from our
addiction to drugs, by getting help from addoction professionals, and other addicts, we have to be carefull with religion, since most of us are under the illussion taht we beleive. when really all we really beleive in is ourselves and we mistake that for a twisted beleif in some religion.
i was once told that where ever there is a out pouring of the spirt ,there is a double effort put forth by the diabolic.

i was always taught to put my religion on a shelf untill i got some clean time, working with other addicts.
i have met very few newcomers, just getting clean  who did not think they knew all about god and religion.

In the 12 step program in step 2 it says -COME TO BELEIVE-
infering that we do not beleive.

It has been my experence that we  as useing addicts, and addicts just getting clean , don't beleive.......
we have spent  our lives beleiving in our selves , and that just add's up to idolatry.

I hope i have not ofended anyone, but in all my years beingt an addict, i have always left my religion at the door, when i enter a meetting or in this case this fourm.

this does not mean i am a godless heathen, the trith would be the opposite.
I think the old saying applies- YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THIER FRUITS, we don't have to give advice from a religious soap
box , it will just turn addicts off.
peace

[chelmer]

Dear Jen, I'm beginning to control my cravings, but like you said waking up and the next 2 or 3 hours are the very worst for me. I'm 56 with 2 great children and 4 grandchildren with so much to be thankful for even though at one point in my life i was eyeball to eyeball with Satan just as long as he could lead me to my next handful of vicodin or norco10's. Fortunately i was caught by the law and my lawyer told me that he could plead me down to first offender misdemeanor, but i was so traumatised by how low a human being that i had become and i was forced by the court to have physical & pyscho exams that i realized i wouldn't live another 5 years. My own personal DR told me that i already had "mickey mantle liver" did you see "The Mick" in the last days of his life confess to the world what he had done to himself with alcohol & drugs i just cried out loud for Mick but mostly i cried for myself for days i couldn't quit crying. So when my court date finally came i plead guilty as charged because i knew if i got off on a misdemeanor i would be right back on my way to Hell. I drove myself to court because i was released on bail, and i had a med. bottle of vic7.5/500 hidden under the front seat of my car, can you believe that anybody on trial for controlled substances by fraud looking at a possible 10yrs. would drive themselves to court with more of the states evidence in their car. i wasn't just eyeball to Satan i was dealing with him. the pain and humiliation that ihave had to learn to face up to and live with every day of my life on some days were just about more than i could live with. But i know this if i had not plead guilty which shocked every person in the court room including my own family and friends my attorney the prosecutor and the judge, i would havebeen released on probation, and i would have used that stash in my car before i left the courthouse parking lot. My personall Dr. prescribes for me know 40mg. celexa 1 daily, and neurontin 300mg 1 capsule 3 times daily and also when i experience a migraine which i have pretty often  as a result of the titanium plate in my neck i use imitrex 20mg. taken nasally and that will usually stop the migraine if it does not subside within 1 Hr. i inhale a second imitrex for me the inhalers work better and faster than oral imitrex. i don't use an addiction Dr. i probably should but my family Dr. knows where i 've been and he has been very good to listen to me & what works. i'm signing off now and hadding to 6:30pm service at Fellowshipchurch.com in Grapevine TX. pull up their website & check them out I was baptised there @53 yrs. old and it has been my lifeline, we have AA/NA and i pray &pray&pray for myself and for you Jen and for evry Jen & Ken out there, God willnot forsake us, even though for a long time i hated him for abandoning me, but i had abandoned myself, and i learned that God had never left me he was always there. I love you and will pray for youmany times and you will make if you never give up no matter how many times that you might relapse, God loves a SINNER more than any other in HIS flock,ken

[OxyDout]

You all are incredible people, addicts, or not addicts, you have big hearts and are always there to make sure this steele net of friendship is never to be broken.  Whenever someone is about to break free, 1 of us sucks him/her back in to make sure they stay protected.  You have been all that I need while going through this. I haven't used today (my 3rd day) and I'm feeling pretty shitty.  I think the main reason is because I would take a few pills here and there, I was never 100% clean for over 7 days, I always had to take something and I don't think it was the actual per,vic or whatever, it was my mentality.  For example, you can be clean for 10days and have oxy's in your cabinet that you refuse to use, and you would be ok. right? well, I can guarantee you that if you had nothing at all to fall back on, you wouldn't make it to even the 5th day of detox.  See, all of us will feel fine as long as we know there is a something within our reach, it keeps our mind and body out of the gutter, but god for bid we don't have something, then my friends, thats withdrawal.

Groovy I greatly appreciate your words of wisdom, and I would love to see an addiction doctor, but I don't have the money to do that, or do I? how much is something like that, IN MA!

I just want to say to all of you that no matter how bad things get, don't ever give up, time will heal, the panic will pass, the money can be made and the drugs will disappear. The one thing that remains is that you have to look at yourself at the end of everyday, sometimes you might not want to, but you won't be able to help it, so do your best, give it 100% and feel good about it because WE are getting there.

You have all been an inspiration to me and i will always remember what I have learned.  If you take a step back and look at things,  In the long run, 6 days of physical withdrawal? We can do that in our sleep IF WE "WANTED TO" -- YOU HAVE TO WANT TO GET SOBER

[shortrock]

so my best friend in the whole wide world threw up blood the other day - its not the first time, either - at least this time he realized he needs to get off the pills and alcohol - but i dont know if he can do it w/out somekind of drug to help w/the withdrawal - that in itself might kill him - but i guess if he keeps on going he will die sooner than later - i know im so dramatic - but i love him to death and cant bear to think of life without him and im sure he cant bear to think of himself not having a life anymore - i mean he holds a job, has a girlfriend and doesn't seem to have a problem - but he does and it is just tearing him apart - i never knew him off the drugs and i dont think there was much time in his life when he wasn't using - but i dont think that the way he is now is the way he is in his soul - he's so beautiful and i just wish he could see that
and know how great he is and can be - oh god i dont know what to do to help him through the suffering - i just feel so helpless - im the only person who knows everything (or almost everything) and i just want him to have the life he can

with much worry
shortrock

[tex3]

Lifeisbetter, I'm glad you're feeling better today. I hope it sticks around. I've had some shitty days and some great days. Today looks to be great. Did some massive cleaning yesterday with the kids; made it into a game with them, so we really had fun. I have to think of something to occupy them this summer!
We found a house we really want to move into, in San Antonio. I have to get out of this town. I got the application and we qualify except in one aspect. During the past few years I screwed our credit up massively. Our mortgage and everything else is okay, but we don't meet the stated credit score. I guess I'll call and try to work around that, but I don't hold much hope.
I've been really bummed about that, because we need this house. I need to move from here to move forward. I want it so bad but don't think it will happen, and I'll be stuck in this damn little place forever. My husband has so many requirements for the house we'll take, and I can't really blame him as he'll be driving 140 miles a day back and forth to work, so we might as well like it. I found the perfect place and now it's slipping away. If we can't get this one, who's to say we'll get any house at all?

Sorry, didn't mean to go off on that, I'm just bummed. I'm really glad you put your current mindframe in perspective and feel better.

GWH, I'm worried about you. You've got to jump on this cycle and gt truly free. What someone mentioned about being honest really hit the mark. That's what is most different about my life: I am no longer deceitful. I mean that in a larger way; I'm not deceitful with myself, with my family, with anything. And not just about the drugs, but about little things. It just got so easy to lie, or to always try to fake life, act straight, put on an act, whatever. Now I don't have to do that. It's like the BS is gone, and I am so much happier. I want you to have that.
I've gone on too long, as usual. Hope all have a great day. Kip, I'm looking for that angel.

[groovygirl]

i take it you don't have insurance?  we can always afford to get the pills, but other things just don't have the same importance...that's addiction i guess.

[OxyDout]

thats not what I meant at all, I am assuming the dr. would cost btw $1-3 thousand, plus meds, right? I don't have that kind of money just sitting around, you know?

[lifeisbetter]

Hey there. I didn't have insurance either. I went to a meeting to try and get a grip on myself because I had relapsed for 6 weeks. I shared about it and said I needed to detox, had no insurance and absolutely could not go back to rehab. I have to tell you its amazing the resources we addicts have. After the meeting I met someone who worked for a detox Dr. It cost $250.00 for the first visit(assessment)and than $100.00 more the next one. He gave me all the detox meds on the second visit. I didn't have to see him again. Of course he recommended it and I am glad I did follow up as I still see him once a month (for $80.00). He even gives me samples of my antidepressant.He's also the only Dr. I have been completely honest with. (okay okay I did'nt tell him I tried to inhale a Ritalin up my nose but I tell him alot!) Anyway ask around at a meeting where you live. You may be surprised who God puts in your path when you show your willing. Take care, and please never stop trying, as Kip said "Don't quit 5 minutes before the miracle happens.

[groovygirl]

they don't all cost that much, and many are covered by insurance.  it just sounds like you have to do something to stop this cycle...