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Avatar universal

Is this mind over matter?

I'm now missing my 2nd day of work b/c of no lortabs left. I need to get through the w/d part before facing reality again, but no way in the world can i put myself into a hospital (which is probably what i need to do). I hope to God that I can face going in tomorrow. Thankfully, I have a great friend at work who knows exactly what I'm going through. Funny thing is with this LT addiction, I'm trying to convince myself that it's just a mental addiction. I once took a pill out of my purse and put it in my pocket,and forgot to take it. Wouldn't you know that 20-30 min. later, I felt a little High??!! I wish somehow that i could pop a tic-tac and mentally think it was an LT. That was just a one time event, but right then and there is when I realized that just the "thought" of taking one gets me a little rush. Yesterday I took 2, and I have one left, which I will probably take today,I'm guessing. That's a big cut from the usual 6 to 9 that i take a day. I can't taper at all. Yeah, so I made 3 LTs last 2 days, but that's not the appropriate way to taper. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Avatar universal
Well, the script says up to 4 a day or as needed. The problem is that I take them for Pain and for Recreation. Stopped for two days and let me tell you it was hell. Is there anything you can recommend to ease the WD symtoms until the physical portion is over with. I think I will be able to  handle the mental part....
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Avatar universal
Thank you all so much for your kind and loving words.  The acceptance literally "hugged" me from the screen.  I went to
church last night-for those of you who don't know that is a
very common practice here in the deep south-and I asked God to
please help lead me toward the best way to emancipate myself
from this hell.  I could not wait to get here this morning to
see what the response to my post would be.  I could not have
been more encouraged.  I know this is just the begining but at
least it is a step towards a future without this noose around
my neck.  I will post some more of my deepest feelings when I
get a break later today, I just had to put a quick one out to
you guys to say thank you and let you know that I have not felt
this positive in a LONG time.  Please do pray for me and I will
pray for all of you.  Much love and respect to each of you.
Cat(That's my real name).
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Avatar universal
md, I agree. I was pretty surprised too. that 50mg aday. Not too bad.

Something in your post earlier made me think your doc might cut you off.

The triplekit is a form they have to use to prescribe Schedule 2 narcotics. One goes to the DEA. They keep tabs on that stuff. She/he might be getting nervous or just tired of the "pill count". In other words, how many they are prescribing a month total.
Chezz
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Avatar universal
Funny you should say that, I actually called my doc and told him I was taking the higher dosage, his response... Ah thats not that bad. Dont worry about it. Crazy how easy they can make it. 100 pills over a 20 day period is only 5 a day. Is that really something to be concerned about? I feel that if I wanted to quit I could, in fact I stopped all together for about a week just to test. Day 1-3 was hard but after that no problems. Exercising and hot tubs truly help. thanks for the advice
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Avatar universal
One question: If you're the hydro queen, and I'm the hydro king, why haven't we met?

I guess you can take both comfort and horror from the fact that your story is about as normal and predictable as they come.

If you're resolved to quit, you've got two choices: addiction specialist (recommend you keep him off your med insurance, though) or self-detox. If you use an addiction guy, you're detox may be easier. But as I said, keep his name off your insurance records and use a different pharmacy or pharmacy chain. Once his name is on your pharmacy records, you won't be able to use them for controlled drugs again. Same caution with insurance: Having substance abuse treatment on your record can affect a lot of things down the line. For example, many if not all states will deny you long term disability (possibly any disability) if you've been treated for substance abuse in the last 10 years.

Self-detox is a lot more confidential. If you're trying to quit for the first time, your chances for lasting success, to be honest, are slim. And remember, you already cut yourself off at your current doc's. You may need another one. Some addicts think that by confessing to everyone in sight, they're making it more likely they will successfully quit. Rarely is this so. It just means you'll be forced underground if you relapse.

Also, you sound like the kind of person who would get strength and reassurance at an AA meeting. It will help you to meet and be accepted by people just like you (read us, O Queen). The spiritual side of AA will work for you, too, me thinks. I recommend AA over NA. NA can be pretty hardcore in several respects. You may get an unwed mother begging you for a place to stay, or an NA zealot that want's to beat the **** out of you for saying something off the party line. AA is, frankly, more coherent, more optimistic. Besides, most drunks also pop anything they can get their hands on, so you're in the right place afterall.

For what it's worth, here's a do-it-yourself recipe for home opiate detox (The Home Game of Hydro Addiction). Sorry for any extraneous question marks, the system translates Word doc apostrophes into ?'s. Good luck. If you want, I can be reached at ***@****.

Thomas

Thomas Detox Recipe

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.
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Avatar universal
Yea it's not so bad when you say 5 aday.I use to get 90 a month and I thought it wasn't so bad either.I think what I should have said was do you take as directed or do you abuse them?
I took 8 aday for 3 months and switched to oxycotin for awhile.
That was scarey because you can really abuse those.Well I hope you stay good with whatever you do.It's a mindgame anyway,
                      peace,
                        bmac
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Avatar universal
neuronton is med they give to seizure pateints.I used it for two months before I had surgery.Pain docs find it helps kill pain and it is safe as far as I know.It did help with me for awhile.I was taking norco's and neuronton also.I will give you alittle advice if I may.If you are taking 100 norco's every 21 days you have a problem.That is alot of hydro and tylenol.Even though it only contains 325 mgs of tyl that is alot of it.Liver damage from accessive use will kill you.Doctors will keep on prescribing narcotics to you as long as you act under their rules.That's how the make their money but I guess you already know this.You are going down a road you will regret unless you
do some about taking so much norco.100 every 21 days is way too much hydro,don't ever just stop cold turkey from such a habit.
Maybe that's why your doc put you on neuronton.If he intends to cut you off,you need to start tapering now.Don't set yourself up for a terrible time my friend,that is a hell of alot of norco's
Believe me I know about this drug,I was on it for 3 years and had that endless supply.Be careful.
                             bmac
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Avatar universal
Sorry to kill your buzz as you put it. But it sounds like your doc has already cut you off. Neurontin is an anti-depresant as far as I remember.
Hopefully someone will have more info tomorrow.
Chezz
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Avatar universal
Sorry about the test, tried posting like four times and kept getting errors....Anyway.
Amazing, I knew I wasnt the only one but geez, there are alot of us. Anyway, seems like all of us started in about the same place except for the last few post (again, sorry about your loss). I to am a young professional sharing most, maybe all of your WD symptoms. This is truly a vicious cycle but so much fun its hard to let go. Deep down you know its not right but oh how easy it is to get through the day and then sail through the evening. My work seems to benefit, my relationship, and quality of life is great. My only fear is that one day I will get cutoff and then where will I be (Maybe for the best). I know this is a patient to patient thread so I am hoping for some advice. My doc continues to Rx me every 21 days or so for 100 count norco. He mentioned something about a triplicket form. Does this mean that he will give me a script without having to call each time? At which point does the doctor patient interegation end (He makes me feel like a drug addict each time I see him). Secondly, he prescribed Neurontin, what is this stuff? Does it get you high or is it a placebo? Cheers all
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Avatar universal
just a test
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Avatar universal
Just reading your post nearly brought me to tears.I have a 13yr old son and cant imagine the horror of losing a child.Dont ever think that you cared about hydro more than your son.Those little pills reach out and demand our every waking thought to the exclusion of everyone and everyone else.I too have been through countless medicine cabinets looking for those devils,always feeling guilty after i used all of someone elses meds.shame doesnt even begin to describe what I felt!Today is 5 days without for me.It's been hard but I want to like myself again.you have made the first step sharing your secret here.I havent been here long but the support Ive gotten has made really been the major factor in my success so far.I will be praying for you and hoping you yake that leap soon.

pixi
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Avatar universal
Hey Doll---If there ws any way I could crash through the computer and give you a hug, I would.... I can relate to SO much of your post; the successful, efficient,"have-it-all together" facade that has fooled so many people for so long...NO ONE--no friends, family or co-workers knew of my addiction, which made it all the harder to 'fess up about it.  So I ask you--is there anyone you can unload this on? Your spouse, best friend, or someone? You need love and support, and you need to get out from under the grueling burden of secrecy that haunts you.  I cannot even imagine what it is like to lose a child.  I feel so badly for you.  I know you took the best care of him that you could, so you need not feel guilty about that.  No one is judging you, so try not to be so hard on yourself. Love yourself enough to try and put the drugs down for good.  You have come to the right place!!  We will take you under our wings and guide you the whole way.   Please post more and let us help you come up w/ a plan.  Hang in there.    Peaz
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Avatar universal
GOD
For what it's worth...

May I make a statement here...

YOU created that life; and although it was lost so tragically, the soul lives on and watches you. He sees YOUR pain with this addiction to the Hydros. You are NOT alone. Your addiction may, or may not continue- however HIS love does continue, and GOD's love for you goes ON and ON. You see this forum isn't just a bunch of "Junkies"-- OUR COMPASSION IS THE SUM of that that does EXPRESS the HIGHER POWER'S love for you.

You will start to see that You and I (All of us) ARE that power, and it can bring healing to you.

Breathless prayer
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Avatar universal
Welcome to the forum. It is funny how similar your story is to many others' on this forum, that they had never been involved in any type of drug abuse or any deviance whatsoever until they picked up their first vicodin or lortab. Growing up in New York City, I was introduced to drugs and addiction before I really even got started in life. So many of my friends became addicts so young, at sixteen and seventeen, and to drugs like heroin and crystal methamphetamine. Friends of mine whose parents had no idea how to love them or take care of them. Who let their kids loose in New York City at eleven years old. For me, my father was a crack addict, and I knew I had the addictive gene. Even when I went to boarding school, and studied and kept on the straight and narrow, I always knew that my curiosity would get the best of me. All I thought I wanted from life was to come to Hollywood, get a great high-paying job with a producer, and live the life of the rich and snobby. When I came out here, and my dreams came true, I became so alienated and despondant that I turned to opiates. Vicodin and oxycontin were prescribed to me as often as I wanted by a "psychiatrist to the stars". He just gave me whatever I wanted. Finally, I found something to fill that great big hole inside me. I could get loaded all the time, and work and deal with the superficial actors and directors whom I couldn't stand normally. It was like I had been gone all my life and I just came home. I moved on to heroin and dilaudid, and my habit reached the out-of-control phase. And now, finally taking steps to get clean, I have my pride back, and my life back, but that hole is also back. No matter what I do, exercise, women, sports, TV, movies whatever, nothing fills that hole quite like the opiates. And I love to get high. An addict to my marrow. But in the end, at 22 years old, I can't waste anymore time. You can't get high forever. And in the end, you are just delaying living your life. It will still be there when you come back. So whether you decide to quit cold turkey now, or after your three refills, you still have to go through the pain, and learn how to live again. We all have problems living. Drugs are not the problem, they are only a symptom. A symptom of a disorder that makes it harder for us to accept life on its own terms. But don't be afraid to learn...its worth it.
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Avatar universal
I could never imagine your pain. You are very welcome here. We all share a common thread... addiction that covers more deeply rooted problems. I still have no idea what I have been hiding from while I abused Lorcet. You actually may be one step ahead of many of us. I am a little over 5 days clean at a simular usage level to your hydro. After reading the threads on this site for a couple of months I asked my wife to throw away my last script of 10/650... more than 50 pills. If you want to get clean you will find awesome support on this site. It is a tough, emotional rollercoaster getting clean. I hope you have support from friends and family. Good luck to you...
Goldenbear
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Avatar universal
First an most importantly do not beat yourself up over this.  You have been through a lot, which means that you are a strong person.  

You are not alone in your situation: I am a middle aged man with a wife at home a daughter in private school and a good job.  I was also hoplessly addicted for 3+ years ( I have been off the tussonex for over 29 days now).  You go along nobody knows in fact I raised my income significantly during this time. There are a few milestones that are hard to miss.  The first is the day you finally admit to yourself that you have a monkey on your back ( I named my Mr. Gingles since we were going to be spending so much close and personal time together).  I can't speak for anyone else, but that was not even close to the day I decided to stop, but a good chunck of ole self esteem takes a hike.  I continued on unabaited (sp) for another year.  Then the next big milestone hit.  I'm going to stop, I am a grown man, how bad can it be.. By day 3 of the w/d I would have hacked up a lung in a doctors office to get the script.  Then I began a fun journey all on my own because I was to afraid to tell anybody.  That was a roller coaster of Kick the habit...habit kicks me...kick the habit..habit kicks me.  This is when the last remaining bit of my self esteem decided to pack up an go.  The last milestone is a very personal one: something or someone makes you decide to say enough.  

For me I was lucky, I told my family about the problem and they didn't leave in fact they have been very supportive.  I found this fourm which was/is invaluable in dealing with every aspect of addiction from using/withdrawls/recovery.  I also started seeing a phycologist who handles substance abuse issues.  Please believe me I just wanted you to know that you are NOT ALONE.  The fact that you are here says alot about where you are and where you want to be. There are people here who know tons more than I on the subject of tapering.  I could never taper.  Since you have some refills you could taper and It will help the w/d's, but like I said I could no more taper than pull a rabbit out of my butt.  I am willing to help in whatever way I can.  I wanted to show you how similar our situations are.  I think you want help, please let someone -- anyone help share the enormous burden.  I will pray for you in whatever you decide to do.

Rob
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Avatar universal
I am sorry about you son. I am speachless. I can't imagine the pain. It is almost too much for me.
You will find support, answers, and compassion here. I hope you will keep posting.....Its the 1st step.
Chezz
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Avatar universal
I am truly sorry about your son.I know how that can change life.I too lost my stepdaughter to a terrible death and now I have her daughter and I and my wife are raising her as our daughter.My wife went thru all you have said about your having to deal with life after such an experience and I really feel for you.It is the hardest thing to deal with,the losing of a child.
No one could ever understand until they walk in those shoes.
As for your habit,You can beat it and you know that.But it won't
be easy.But because of what you have been thru nothing will ever be as hard as that.Just keep posting and let it all out.We will
be here for you whenever you need someone  .Welcome.              Bmac
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Avatar universal
Greetings All,
I have been lurking in this forum for about a month.  What a
great discovery and believe me, I need it.

Crunch, your post was almost like a carbon copy of the last
four years of my life.  I am so embarrased and feel like such a loser, yet I am not.  I am young, everyone tells me I am gorgeous, and I have a great family and high paying professional
job.  I say this not to blow my own horn but because deep inside
I know I am a junkie and I have a different mental picture of what that is, and it is not at all attractive or successful.  I
have never had issues with alcohol, have tried pot and coke(but
this was back when I was very young and it did nothing for me so
I never did it again).  There were some catalysts that I feel brought this to the surface, although the blame lies totally in
me.  My 16 year old son passed away April 14, 2002.  The horror
of that experience is uncommunicable but we are coping.  He had
health issues that required constant care from my husband and myself.  We adored our son and always will but the pressures mounted, at least I felt that way, as one of the caregivers.  My
son hurt his leg and had a prescription for LT and he could not take them due to vomiting.  There they were and I thought one night - "You know, I am exausted and this says it may cause drowsiness.  If the Dr. didn't feel it was too strong for him then I think I'll just take a couple and see if I can get a good nights sleep."  Well, the euphoria was such that slowly I would take one in the daytime and then two, and so on, all the while I was never walking around in a drug induced haze.  I finally felt GREAT again and had the energy to do all that I needed to do and smile while I was doing it.  What a lift.  Get up, go to work, come home, wife it, Mom it, take care of my son's health issues,
and be involved in my other sons activities.  EVERYTHING had a
warm glow around it and I felt a joy I had not felt in I could not remember when.  Well, everything goes along and over time the stress gets greater and the tolerance gets higher, and you all know the drill.  It is never really an issue to get an RX from a doctor if you have back, head, etc. pain.  But after loosing my son I really plummeted because now it takes alot more to give me that feeling of warm fuzziness.  About 100 mg
a day.  And let me add, if you met me you would NEVER know this was going on.  I am working, always have, running a home, taking care of my appearance, etc.  I just have to get up, take dose,
start the day, and the rest is history.  The feeling of joy when I open a new bottle - I thought I was the only nut who felt that
way.  I can't think of ANYTHING I would rather get as a gift than some extras.  "Would you like a million dollars or a bottle of 1000 10's.  I'd take then 10"s and never blink an eye and I
PROMISE you I would not give one away.  The panic when I run out, the depression, the worrying about my next RX, the feeling of envy as I pass a pharmacy, looking in peoples cabinets when I am a guest in their home and taking any if I find them.....it goes on and on.  I have shared this with no one but felt I would
be respected in here.  I hope I am right because just typing this is making me want to vomit.  It's the oddest thing, innocently you start out trying to get a little boost and before you know it there isn't even a boost anymore, now I just need them to feel like I felt normally - before I ever started taking them.  I went to my Dr. a couple of weeks ago and she gave me my last RX with 3 refills.  I told her that I would not be back in for a year and she does not phone in refills.  I am going to finish these and go cold turkey.  I know I sound like a wuss but I cannot do it when I have refills.  I just can't - period.  I want to get out of this vise grip.  Everything I do revolves around if I have them.  Can't leave town w/o them, can't go out with friends, etc, etc, because I think I won't have a good time.
I hate to wake up when I know I don't have them and I almost dread taking them because I am 1 pill closer to being out.  I
appreciate you all listening.  Your stories have inspired me.  I know I will get through this as I have gotten thru alot.  Do you know when I realized this thing was a monster?  After my son died and my heart was crushed beyond belief and as the days and weeks went by I found myself waking up with the horror of being out of pills hitting me before the horror of being without my son, who I adored.  Just saying that sentence has opened a flood gate of tears because it would appear that I feel a pill is more
important than my son and God knows I do not.  Maybe only a true addict can understand.  I still am amazed that I am able to fool
people but that cannot go on forever.  Please give me some guidance.  Love and respect to you all....I really do understand
everything you all have posted.
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Avatar universal
Ask on.I am only ahead of you because I started sooner.
If you need, here's my email.
             ***@****
                                 bmac
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Avatar universal
Your post was awesome.  It was very well-written, descriptive to a "T", and was a true representation of addiction, in a nutshell.  I'll give you an A all the way... I hope you keep posting and sharing 'cause it's helpful for you and for us.  Welcome!!!
         Peaz

P.S. By the way--I was one of those "lucky, lucky techs" and it WAS  fabulous for over two years, unfortunately.  The inevitable **** hit the fan, and here I am.  The only lucky  aspect now is that I'm in recovery and not in jail.
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Avatar universal

Thanks for the kind words... I know that you are further along on the clean time than I.  I am 29 days now.  I am going to try and ask you a few questions about dealing with things (such as doctors) during recovery.  I want to keep everything positive, and not to suggest in any way that being finally free is not a truely great feeling.  It is just that there are things that I have to deal with that are challanges almost everyday.

I know this is rambling, and I will try to put a better question out soon...

Rob
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Avatar universal

I used Bonine while self detoxing from alcohol. It is an over the counter travel sickness med that really makes me sleep. I still would wake up frequently during the night even in spite of taking so much Klonopin each day. I at least got some hours of sleep. Otherwise I would not have slept at all.

Bonine I believe is stonger than Dramamine a similar anti-nausea, anti-vertigo drug. Watch out for the benzos for sleep as they are additive for many people and some of the most dangerous drugs to detox from without in-patient care. That's unavaiable here, and expensive wherever it is offered.

chatahan
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Avatar universal
Wow crunch....I felt like I was reading my own life on this screen here. I'm a pretty big LT user as well, but again, seeing what other people have had to struggle with, my situation is nothing. SO, is this mind over matter? I've asked the ? a 1,000 times today. Now it's 2:30 and i still can't sleep. have to get up at 4:30 to be to work by 6.....terrified of doing it. I know that i'll end up taking 2 pills at work, there's no way i can imagine getting trough the day. I'll take cincee's advice and try not taking at all on the weekend. My mind is racing in every direction imaginable tonight. Insomnia sooooo bad. I'll have to start taking a sleep aid, but I don't want to get another addiction to those either. We'll see what happens. Welcome to our addict community. I'm new too, but i feel right at home here. Good luck with your fight crunch.

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