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Klonopin

I would like to know how to safely taper off klonopin (Rivotril).I SHOULD be taking 1mg 3 times a day, but for the last several years i've tripled my dose to 3/1mg 3 times a day.

I was prescribed klonopin 7 yrs ago at the same time as anitdepressants. I've weaned myself off the antideprssants a few months ago. Why was i prescribed klonopin? Was it to optimize the antidepressants? Anyways, i'm feeling much better and all i need is this last step to be completely drug free.

*Note to others who post here*

Why is it that i get this weird feeling that some people seem to think that their posts r less important or enlightning than others? What the heck...? In my humble opinion, and after reading posts here for more than a month...seems to me that every single post, long or short, serious or funny, enlightening or down in the dumps, whatever drug is affecting our lives...ALL THESE POSTS HAVE THEIR PLACE HERE.

Isn't this forum a place for us all to get off any stuff?

Being human...means mistakes...downers...humble acceptance and so many times here...victories...maybe small ones...but victories all the same...but ALL of the time...all of the posts r so very true.So...what ever the name attached to a post...i read every single word..and..however long or short it may be...in some way...it encourages me to get clean.

I'm a working mom with 3 boys ages from 3 to 16. One of my boys has a chronic medical problem. I'm a single parent and after alcohol and pills galore in the familly history, i truly want to get off this stuff. Take care everyone.
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Avatar universal
The Benzo.uk.org site is full of quackery and anti-Antisemitism.  Just a heads up.
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Avatar universal
I am taking Methadone 10 mg. 8 a day, plus tramadol for breakthrough, I have Osteogenisis Imperfecta, with multiple broken bones, however I too am addicted now to all these pills. I now started taking Klonipin .5 mg 2 times a day because I had heard that klonipin makes methadone boost up and work better. Is that true?

Diana Dressler
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Avatar universal
Thank you for the informative post!  Sounds like you've done your homework. (Did you ever see "Reefer Madness"?)..I rented it a couple of years ago, and it was (unintentionally) hysterical!!!  Sadly, many doctors still see drug dependency in this light today!  Also, sadly, a lot of doctors will not responsibly treat patients today, because of a fear of liability.  They don't want to touch us!  You've gave me something to really think about.  Peace/Love, Lisabet
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Avatar universal
"No ****? I had a vicodin habit and simply substituted 1 gram of heroin, shot into my ass. I literally made this change overnight, and no withdrawals! Who woulda thought :)"

LOL
Wow, I had a back pain habit and simply substituted about 2-3 grams of heroin per day until I was numb...then I got the really bright idea (<<- sarcasm) of simply substituting 120 Mg of Methadone per day and waddya know no withdrawals!!  :-)

Seriously though, I think everyone is different when it comes to reactions to detox so forth.... Yes, I had was down to 70Mg Methadone per day when I did this, but I really don't think the Methadone lessened the withdrawals significantly. The reason I say this is because when I tried to kick the pins cold turkey while on 120 Mg of Methadone I had TERRIBLE witdraw symptoms and the Methadone wore off 4 hrs.after I medicated in the morning - by 11:00 AM I was totally dope sick.
All I really can say for sure is that the substitution of Valium and tapering I described in my last post worked very well FOR ME.  Remember, I also mentioned that coming off of the 1 MG of Klonopin a month later (after the Valium subst) was pretty rough.

Also, as a side note, my dad has recently told me about substituting Phenobarbitol while detoxing from any Benzo has proven to be pretty successful in many documented cases.  I am indeed fortunate to have a father who is an M.D.
Maybe whipett can try the Phenobarbitol substitution...
anyway,  thanks for the feedback.

Peace and Blessings
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Avatar universal
I have taken 8mgs of Xanax, 1600mgs of Meprobamate and 60mgs of Restoril for well over 5 years now with absolutely no disturbing or negative side effects and an marked improvement, in fact the total elimination of the symptoms of my illness.  I make it a point to heavily research the medicines and dosages for everything I am prescribed.  I am perplexed that the "addiction industry", intolerant of any psychoactive medications or their use, especially prolonged, has abused the term "addiction" and uses it in a extremely loose fasion to include reliance on any remedy that relieves the symptoms of mental illness.  I must mention also that I do not nor have I ever sought increases in the amount or types of medicine required to relieve my symptoms, do no sell it on the street, and do not use it inappropriatey or for recreation. The very profitable "addiction industry" is a curious oddity which has been driven by political and mis-informed scare-tactic pressure from those who do not require this safe and effective treatment which, since its development in the mid 20th century, has virtually emptied the mental hospitals to an all time low, allowing patients to perform and function normally in their social lives and allowed them to become productive and content members of society.  It seems to me the only problem is the pressure from the NON-MEDICAL "experts" who condemn psychopharmacology as an evil and immoral treatment, just another flavor of the "reefer madnes" strategy employed in the 1930's.  "Betty Ford" and "AAA" centers do their best to label the disabled as "addicts" who cannot help themselves and can NEVER recover, and this is one of the most counter-productive and dangerous problems regarding this subject, creating undue and serious attitudes against the psychopharmacologists and their patients.  I too am a victim.  Do you know why my Doctor, a prominent psychiatrist, advised me that my dosages were too high and that the problem-free use of medicine must be tapered and discontinued? LIABILITY FEAR based on the ever intrusive politicians who reason that, regardless of the effective and safe use of these medicines, a topic which never seems to get much publicity, they must be stopped.  He stated that a "committee" of "auditors", who know nothing of my condition, has in effect threatened him with censure and/or revocation of his right to practice medicine if he did not begin reducing the amounts of certain medications for ALL patients, regardless of the patients' needs or progress.  I am therefore in the same boat as many of you in terms of fear and anxiety, but don't be so quick to blame the medicine or feel that long-term high-dose regimens are catagorically harmful and ineffective to those afflicted with mental illness.  Habituation is a property of many psychotropics, and if discontinuation is determined to be medically appropriate by a Physician, it can be done with little or no discomfort to dose zero.  It may take time, but weighed against the overwhelming benefits MOST patients have experienced by their use, withdrawl is simply a procedure related to the medication, not a social evil.  How many people are hopelessly trapped in pain because a Doctor is afraid of the DEA?  How many suffer needless anxiety every month unsure if their medicine will be there or not under the current "controlled substance" laws restricting medication to 30 days per doctor visit for conditions which may be chronic or intractable?  It is easier to buy heroin or crack than to be treated with a safe and appropriate psychotropic.  The Government lost their expensive war on truly harmful drugs bought on the streets, so I guess they can save a little face by victimizing the mentally challanged and the availability of safe, effective medicines that, at least in my case, changed my life 1000% for the better.
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Avatar universal
It is possible to taper directly from klonopin rather than valium since it too has a long half life. Most problems tapering result from trying to taper from short acting benzos like Xanax or Ativan as interdose wd is more severe.

There are disadvantages to switching to Valium. It is an older benzo and does not bind as tightly to the receptors as the newer benzos and many people report crossover wd symptoms. I personally did not find this to be the case but admittedly I am in the minority on this. It's mode of action is also different - it has more of a hypnotic rather than an anti anxiety effect and can cause oversedation at the higher doses recommended for crossover.

On the plus side, it is easier to cut the pills and they come in several different strengths. In addition, healing begins almost immediately because it effects different subunits of the GABA receptors. It is very helpful with the insomnia but less helpful with anxiety symptoms.

These are things to weigh when choosing a protocol.

itsadogslife
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Avatar universal
I had a 8Mg per day Klonopin habit and successfully got it down to 1 Mg per day in 2 weeks!!  I read a study done using Valium to substitute for the Benzo you are currently addicted to.  I simply substituted 7Mg of Klonopin with 60Mg Valium along with 1 Mg Klonopin. I literally made this change overnight.  So, I was taking 6 10Mg Valiums + 1 - 1Mg Klonopin per day. every 3 days I decreased the valium intake by 15Mg until I was down to only taking 1 Mg of Klonopin. I experienced very little withdrawal.  Coming off of the 1 Mg of Klonopin was actually a little more difficult than decreasing my dosage.  However, I'm sur that the withdrawal would have been worse without substituting the Valium; And it would have taken MUCH longer to taper off of the 8Mg of Klonopin.  This worked for me; I also had access to the Valium since my father is an M.D. - I don't neccessarily say you should try this I'm only saying it worked wonderfully for me.
Also,  A doctor that would actually tell his/her patient that they MUST stay on an addictive drug in order to continue therapy should have their medical license revoked!  I suspect your current doctor wants to keep you addicted so you have to keep coming back and he/she keeps getting paid.  I'd like to sock him in the eye!!! @sshole!!!
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Avatar universal
"I simply substituted 7Mg of Klonopin with 60Mg Valium along with 1 Mg Klonopin. I literally made this change overnight"

No ****? I had a vicodin habit and simply substituted 1 gram of heroin, shot into my ass. I literally made this change overnight, and no withdrawals! Who woulda thought :)

Seriously, it's pretty amazing that you could drop 15mgs valium every three days and not have serious withdrawals. I am assuming you weren't taking any other benzos at this point, or opiates...

Consider yourself lucky.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hey bro,

I have been on the klono three weeks, 1mg 3 x day, plus 1 clonodine,  Like every good addict I know I modified the THOMAS recipe that has been such a big help with WD.  They have helped with that paranoid feeling, especially in public, but I am always tired, no wonder it's a depressent.  I have 7 left that I am going to cut in half and taper down and stop in the next 4 days.

I saw my old sponser yesterday at a meeting, had a really good talk.  I told him after I went on the treatment for hcv, I didn't want to talk to anyone including my wife and kids. He understood as he knows alot of addicts who have the disease and tried treatment and quit.  It was hell.  anyhow,the good news is I am cured of hcv and I just talked to him on the phone and asked him to be my sponser again and to start working on the steps.  He said he was praying you would ask and and of course he would.

One thing I had asked him was about was all the meds I have been taking for this disease the last year, told him every thing truthfully, he asked me when I last drank, gambled or smoked weed, those were my drugs of choice in my 4 years from NA. Didn't go back to crack heroin ect.  Alcohol is a drug I sure found out, along with my gambling. I told him last year at this hotel/casino my father in law was playing at in AZ. He told me no you have not relapsed since then,  the drugs you took saved your life and got you through the post treatment. so no that is not a relapse especially with the disease you had.  I am going to believe and trust him on this.  He has 17 years of recovery and has worked the steps. He has in the past called me on my **** big time when I would get 60 days and go drink and gamble. So tomorrow I have 1 year clean!  My wife celebrates 1 year clean 1-6-03.  I will e mail you soon.  Thanks for the info.

To everyone on the board, my sincere thanks, I couldn't leave the house for 7 days because of WD.  Never would have got past day 3 without getting oxys and percs, it was only your support and posts that kept me going.
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Avatar universal
i agree with your post,
we are all addicts looking for solutions.
i have been here a year, have found that certian member here have morehelpful information then others,
some are he to get off the pills and some are here to find a way to live with the fact that they have to take meds , and are trying to find a way to do that successfully.
in the end i find we akk help eahh other.
some of here who have found solutions have the tendency to be
very grateful for the help we have received.
i personally was encouraged and helped imensly bt the membere
who were here whwn i got here  posters like
thomas, mr.michael,WW. ,skipper,irish rose,also body mech.
amongst othersi also enjoy and am encouraged by
rex, save youself, southeren belle, suszee needs help.
to name a few more,
when i got here in feb o2, i was a mess, taking up tpo 29 perc;s and vikes aday. so finding a way out of the nightmare
with the help of the posters i mention has  me in a forever greateful state of mind,

peace !!!!!!!!!!!!!          hippy
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Avatar universal
Hi Rex. Today is a little better but still so tired. I made myself get out of the house and go for a ride in my truck. That worked for awhile, but I got tired real fast and had to get back home and lay down. Thanks for asking. And how are you today?
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
A year is a good time frame for a taper. Slow but steady. Email me you if you like...I'm at 4 mgs of valium down from a crossover of 6 mgs of Xanax a day. It has been 7 months so far for me. Anyway, I'm posting my email addy..I seem to remember we're not supposed to but I don't remember why so if the moderator doesn't like I guess they can pull the post.

***@****
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Avatar universal
Thanks all for the indepth info about klonopin. Its really got me thinking about when and how to taper. Imma gonna start slowly, following itsadogslife and everyone elses posts. If it gets too tough, i'll taper even slower...but i will taper darn it...even if it does take a whole year!

Yesterday, i didn't take a dose till the evening. During the day, took the boys iceskating. I'm usually real layed back when i take these meds, but yesterday, caught myself losing patience for every tiny thing. Had to apologize to my boyz a couple of times since everything and i mean EVERYTHING got on my nerves. Now, after reading all of your posts about klonopin, i'm putting 2 and 2 together. Yeah, i'm scared. Hope with time, i will get off this stuff.

Last night, could't even stand myself so i took a dose. Felt much calmer afterwards.

Had a heart to heart talk with my 2 older teen sons. My youngest is 3, so he was asleep. Didn't feel it was the right time to tell the boys i was fighting an addiction, but we talked about our familly history for drugs and alcohol. Isn't easy to get any teens attention, but i can tell you that this conversation was really intense. They asked alot of questions about street drugs and script drugs. I tried to answer as best i could and i reminded them that since our familly has a predisposition, they should, throughout thier lives, be very carefull not to fall into the *fix* pattern...whatever the substance.

I even had the courage to admitt to them that i loved the opiate effects when i had back surgery and now IBS and demerol  and that i had to be very very carefull not to give in to this great feeling. They were so astonished that thier mom MIGHT have a problem! (I'm a very caring mom and am allways there for them). Geezzzz....kids sometimes think that we parents are saints of something!!!!!!!!! NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyways, i hope our conversation opened an eye for them. Time will tell.

I'll keep reading all of your posts each day.  They really do help me...if not down right awaken me...and sometimes...yeah...sometimes...give me a hearty good laugh with the jokes and all...that is the best medicine i know!

Take care everyone and merci!! Whippet:)
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Avatar universal
I think that you will find Alanon and Naranon very dissapointing.  They lead you to believe that it is you have a disease and need to work AA steps. They take concerned and loving wives and label them as co-dependents. This may or may not be true.  The best message to take from Alanon is that you cannot control your partners behavior so take care of yourself.  

Read the chapter in the AA big book addressed to wives and families. I think this will give you some good insight. Also, I believe that this type of situation is Dr Horvaths field of expertise.  He may be able to give you more help than anyone.
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Avatar universal
Rex1 - Doing good, how's the back!

Everyone - Have a Happy New Year and be safe!

teeitup!
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Avatar universal
Having had a long term benzo addiction, I have done extensive research and posted on a benzo board for some time. That benzo wd is different for everyone is apparently the only truth that applies. There are some general rules of thumb -

Long acting benzos like klonopin or valium are preferred for tapering.

It is easier to make larger cuts in the beginning of the taper than at the end. As the taper progresses go smaller and slower.

Cuts should be no larger than 10% of the total dose. I have personally broken this rule at the beginning with no ill effects.

Two things happen during a taper - rebound symptoms caused by the brain's delay in producing GABA when the drug is removed. These are most likely more intense anxiety, shakes and insomnia. The brain eventually begins to produce GABA again. If that's not bad enough relapse symptoms which are the underlying disorder that the benzo was prescribed for in the first place return as well.

Tapers from benzos take a long time and the symptoms can be bad enough to want to increase the dose to obtain relief. I have found that if done only occassionally like once during a weekly or bimonthly cut, this does not negate the taper. If you are going to beat your head against the wall or shoot your neighbor, I think that it doesn't hurt to have one day of peace from symptoms. But overall, you have to steadily decrease to get to the other side.

It's very difficult to be around other people during this period which again is very long so it's impossible not to be. They will get on your nerves bigtime even by just commenting on the weather.

Many people have tried many different things to deal with symptoms from high protein diets to meditation to exercise. I find exercise helpful. It burns off the excess adrenalin and cortisol that builds up during wd. However, unfortunately, you usually don't want to exercise. I also found B vitamins to be too stimulating. Who knows? What works for one person doesn't for the next. You have to find something that works for you.

Stay away from all stimulants including caffeine.

Some people swear that antidepressants help; others say they're just compounding the problem.

Do not check into any detoxes that promise you'll be off in two weeks. They do exist and countless people have paid the price.

Just remember it's easier in the beginning so get started. You will be making progress and that will help you feel in control.

itsadogslife
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Avatar universal
How long do you have to be on klonopin before your addicted or get WD from them.  I have used it sparingly with the thomas recipe.  They do help with the anxiety and the paranoi feeling I still have from WD. Coming off this oxy/ per habit of a year, it is going to be a few more weeks of WD.  It is just like meth WD.  It is not over in a few weeks.  I am working out, going to NA, but do not want to substute another drug with more WDs.
Any body got any answers, alot of you have seen my posts over the last3 weeks.
Strength and Honor
Greg
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Avatar universal
How's it goin today?

Rex
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Avatar universal
How are you doing today my friend?

Rex
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Avatar universal
Thanks for the info.  I just got back from the Alanon meeting.  It wasn't any help at all.  I am going to try another meeting next week...in a different place.  I am not giving up, but this one was not what i needed.  I guess i don't really know what i need.  Actually i do know what i need.  I need my life to go back...and have all this erased.  But that is likely not to happen.  So i will continue to support him the best i can.  The thing is that my education, job, social life, emotional well-being, appearance etc. has all changed because of this stupid pill.  All i have to say is that if he ever puts a pill in his mouth again...he might as well put one in mine...because it effects me just the same.  I am going to keep coming here....even if i do find the right support group...because you people help me understand what HE is going through....and if it wasn't for that...i would still be blaming him for what i thought he did to me.  He did it to himself....and didn't mean for it to hurt me.  I understand that....somedays.  Anyways, for all of you doing the Jan.1st quit date.....CONGRATULATIONS and i wish you the very best....and will be thinking about you.  For those you are trying....keep trying...IT IS WORTH IT.  When you think it couldn't possibly be worth all this pain....keep trying.  IT IS WORTH IT.  Sometimes i wish i could take a pill or have a drink...like tonight...to numb my feelings.  But i know it is not the right way to go...i know that eventually i will have to deal with this problem...and a pill or a drink is just delaying the inevitable.  Thanks again for taking the time to answer my question.  I really appreciate it.  Also, to eslad...you don't have to do a search for me....:)  Thanks for the offer though...it was really sweet.  I have a tendency to do that as well...i take everyones problem...make it mine and then try to fix it.  I don't know if you are the same way or not.  
Well off to search.
Thanks again :)
Catherine
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Avatar universal
yo,
how much have you been taking and for how long.
im sure you wil get more info posted.klonopin is a
sedative-hypnotic(benzodiazepine caterory of drug)
one way to taper is .25 1 a day week 1
.25 every other day week 2
25. every thrid day week 3
then off.

you should always taper under the doctor hho prescribed it to you
supervision.

everything is subject ro revision especally what we know about thr truth.
i welcome anyone else's in put, to help answer your question,

peace !!!  hippy, your  freind michael
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Avatar universal
Try www.presciptionabuse.com, good luck and thanks for your postings!

teeitup!
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Avatar universal
I think Alanon will help you the most.  I know there are sites, forums, messages boards out there for the spouses of addicts, I just dont know exactly where.  

If you dont find any in the next few days, let me know and I'll find them for you.  I love to search for things on the internet, so its no problem.  But right now its hard for me to post here, so searching now is out of the question.

I would love to help you find what you are looking for, but I just cant manage it now.   Seriously, if in a few days you havent found anything, let me know and I'll search for you.  You can email me ~ my email address is in one of my first posts here.  

Keep going to Alanon!  Your husband is lucky to have  you!
Lee Ann
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Avatar universal
Does anyone know of a site i can go to....that deals with families of addicts?  You have all been a great help to me.  I understand addiction better now than before...and going to AA and NA meetings has helped a whole lot too.  But i have questions about being the member of the marriage who isn't addicted and the anger and frustration i feel sometimes.  I know he did this to himself...but at the same time...he stole a part of me.  I can't trust as easily, i can't look back to the good times and think of them as good...because he was high.  I am having a really bad day today...and would just like to have someone to relate to.  Anyone know of anything i can do? or go to?  
I am off to an AlAnon meeting now.
I am really trying to help him....but somedays i just want to scream!
Thanks,
Catherine.
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