Aa
Aa
A
A
A
Close
Avatar universal

Methadone withdrawal

My boyfriend is on day 5 of withdrawing off of 240mg of methadone. All he does is sleep, probably to avoid all the pain. He has restless legs, runny nose, diarrhea, restlessness in his sleep, and is only able to sleep at all because an urgent care MD gave him a 5 day supply of lorazepam to help with his anxiety. No MDs will take him on as a patient because he has no insurance so he is stuck withdrawing. He has herniated discs so he is in severe pain with nothing to treat it. I am wondering if there is anything I can do to make the withdrawal process easier for him. I am also wondering if there are any resources I can utilize to help him. We are located near Syracuse, NY and all methadone clinics we found have a 6 month wait. Any advice at all would be appreciated, I've never taken anything stronger than Motrin so narcotics and withdrawals are not something I am familiar with!!
52 Responses
Sort by: Helpful Oldest Newest
1235186 tn?1656987798
hey mandy,
how are things going with you and joe?
debbie
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
That's not how it's done here.  What does Joe want?  Does he want to go inpatient somewhere?  Or does he want to do outpatient?  If outpatient, is he looking for full-day programs or something more like NA, where he can go after work?  For me ex, the inpatient detox was very important.  He even did one for about 5 months.  (That was hard on me and the kids.  We didn't have any income from him and he was 2.5 hours away but it was well worth it.)  Are you going to be able to attend his hearing?  I know judges (at least in my experience) like to see supportive family with the defendant.  Will his parents be going?  I'm sure his lawyer will bring up how supportive you are and  how much Joe wants to get clean.  The fact that he was in the process of detoxing should say something to the judge, along with the fact that he doesn't have a criminal record.

I know the waiting is forever.  If he gets out early, when do you think that might be?  How's he being treated?  And how are his withdrawal symptoms?  What a terrible place to go through withdrawal.

I'll add you both to my prayers.  I'm a bit of a cafeteria Catholic these days (you know, take what you like :)  Does Joe have any faith?  If so, now would be the time to call on it.  Not so much for getting out of jail early, though that would be nice, but for him to have a great recovery!!

You're very good to him.  I was good to my ex.  Always forgiving and trying to find him the best care.  But ultimately it's up to them to do the work.  We can only support them, not do it for them.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I was able to have a "secure visit" with Joe last night.  I showed up 1 1/2 hours before sign up just to be sure that I would get a spot (they only do 16 total).  I was the first one, and happily signed up, then returned 3 hours later for the actual visit.  It was a one hour visit, unfortunately it was through a glass window and it was hard to communicate because there were 2 other couples in the same room with just dividers between us and everyone was trying to talk over each other so they could be heard.  I atleast got him to laugh a couple times, so that was nice to see.  I spoke with the guy who represents the bureau of narcotics enforcement out here (the one who essentially got him in this situation).  He said he would talk to the DA's office and see if he could get him released early, before Thursday.  There was some sort of technical term, but I don't remember it.  I haven't heard anything back on it, but maybe tomorrow? If not, I overnighted some books to him from Amazon since they have given him nothing to read, so he literally sits in a cell and stares at a wall.  I got to speak to him on the phone for about 20 minutes today and it is so good to hear his voice when I cannot see him.  I'm doing everything I can to get the best possible result and to make him as comfortable as possible in there.  Yesterday I dropped off some white t-shirts, socks and underwear (all conveniently spritzed with my perfume for a little hint of home).  Tomorrow I am going to put money on his account there so he can buy toiletries and snacks.  In the meantime I think I've come down with strep throat, so I am taking care of myself at the advice of so many on here...I've got an appointment first thing in the morning, so appointment first, money in his account later ;)

Does anyone know how drug court works? I've heard this is one of the possible outcomes.  Joe's dad said out in the county he works in it's all "outpatient" type stuff.  Basically you live at home and continue on with your normal life and show up to court when assigned.  However, Joe says that all of the inmates he has spoken to have said they keep you in jail for 2 weeks to 2 months as part of the process.  I can't imagine going 2 weeks without him, much less 2 months! I know in the grand scheme of things 2 weeks is not alot, but in the moment it is a lifetime and it is agonizing!
Helpful - 0
1454150 tn?1288127898
your story has touched me in manys ways. your love and devotion to joe remind me of the love and devotion i have with my husband. i have put him through alot and while in the begining i also suffered with chronic pain, i was able to have surgeries to help alleviate alot of the pain. then i just had a raging addiction to contend with! if it wasn't for my husbands love and understanding i don't think i could have made it this far...28 days.

i glad to see that your Catholic, so am i...and if it wasn't for Jesus and God Himself showing me signs along the way, i would have been soo lost! as i said before this is joe's journey and while it may seem harsh and unfair, God does have a plan for him. i believe that we have to surrender to Christ so He can walk and sometimes carry us to deliverence. joe is broken right now and it's through Christ that he can be healed! So keep Praying, Pray that God's Will shall be done. God Bless you both.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
This could very well be for the best.  So many people relapse over and over again.  Maybe because of all that's happened his recovery will be successful the first time.  I'll say that in my experience, both in my personal life and from what I've seen in the courtroom, those that are successful are those that use and stick with an aftercare program.  My ex did get sober for nearly 5 years and we had a really great life.  It took me a while to trust him again but not too long.  When he was really working the program, I could see the difference in him.  Unfortunately, he wound up stopping the aftercare.  It was sort of a slow progression.  He would miss a meeting here and there but eventually he let them go completely.  He had one relapse and then was okay for a few months but pretty quickly he was not only back to drinking/using but was even worse than before.  He made a couple of half-hearted attempts to get back on track but the desire wasn' t there.  It's been almost 11 years since he lost his sobriety now and he is worse than ever.  It's sad.

The impact an addict's behavior has on others is amazing.  It took me a very long time to  not take his behavior personally.  I always thought if he loved us enough he would stay sober.  But that's not what this is about.  I hope Joe will maintain his sobriety.  He has a lot of work to do.  And he also will have to figure out how he will deal with his pain.  Chronic pain can make a person crazy.  People that don't have it don't understand.  It's all-consuming at times.  I think it's great you're so supportive and he's lucky to have you.  Just remember it's support and not control.  That's where I made my mistake with my ex, I think.  In the end, this could bring you both closer.

I'll be looking for updates.  All the best.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I understand that I really need to evaluate our relationship and whether or not we should be together.  I need to know if he will ever be the man I need to be.  The truth of the matter is I love him to death, but I have to put my potential future children first.  I never want to bring a child into this world and then have them suffer because of their father's demons.  I want him to be the loving supportive father that sets a good example for his children and is always there for them. He just became an uncle a month ago and to see the way he looked at his niece showed me how much he would cherish a child.  To be honest he cherishes me and his dog more than I've ever seen from a man.  But I also understand that regardless of how loving someone may be, they may not be capable of being the person you need and deserve.  

However, I have seen the desire to change in his eyes.  After going through this experience he looked me in the eyes tonight (through the glass between us of course) and said "babe...I am NEVER going back on any of this. I don't care how much my back hurts.  I can't ever be in this situation again."  

Did I ever mention he used to be a cop? Yeah throw that into this whole situation and you know how crazy this is for all of us involved to be going through this.  We never pictured him on the other side of those bars.  

I was raised Catholic, so I am religious, and I have been praying.  I'm praying that the judge will see the genuine desire to change in Joe's eyes.  I'm praying that Joe has the strength within him to make this change.  I'm praying that I have the strength to make it through this week, and whatever may be to come in the future.  I hope those of you who are religious will keep us in your thoughts and prayers as well (I know many have already said you will), because you never really know the full power that God can have in these situations.  I told Joe that maybe this is a blessing in disguise.  He has been seeking help for the last week and a half, now he may get court ordered help!

Being away from him has really drawn to light just how much I love him.  He says it has done the same, and I would think even more so on his end since I have stuck by his side through all of this.  

I just hope everything works itself out in the best way possible that allows him to make the changes in his life that he so desires.

Today was a better day...it wasn't easy but each hour that passes I feel the tiniest bit stronger and just hope that my strength will help him through this.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I'm not sure about reducing the amount.  I'm sure it's something his lawyer will bring up, but whether the prosecutor will go along with it, who knows.  But it's very possible.  Prosecutors, like I mentioned before, VERY often overcharge; that way, they still get convictions, even if it's on a lesser charge.  I'm sure his lawyer will bring that issue up.  And whether it's a technicality or not doesn't matter.  Lots of people have got off on a technicality.  

I can understand you researching things and wanting to do what you can to help.  I tend to be the same way.  But you have to put some faith in his lawyer.  There are many very good court-appointed lawyers. His lawyer will know what's the best way to present his case.  One thing he has going for him is that he was in the process of detoxing as this happened.  The judge will see that in a positive light.  When someone genuinely wants to get well, it goes in their favor.  Judges can tell when someone is genuine or not.  They see this kind of stuff all the time.

As bad as this is, hopefully it will be the last run-in he has with both the legal system and the detoxing of drugs.  Only you will know whether to stay or leave.  I will say, in hindsight, I wish I left earlier.  My ex went through 12 detoxes while we were married.  It is really hard living with an addict, especially if you have children.  I kept thinking every time would be the last time.  I was always supportive, always tried to make things easier.  It took me almost 20 years to realize I couldn't love him sober.  No matter how much I loved him it had to be his own decision.  In some ways, I probably hurt things.  I always tried to make things easier for him.  Maybe if I hadn't and he had to stand on his own two feet, he would have been more successful.

I only say this because I hate to see others go through this.  By the time I finally left, so much damage had been done to me and my kids and though everyone is okay now, there was a lot of healing that needed to be done.  I'm all for keeping relationships/marriages together but you have to know when to walk away.  The more time and effort you invest, the harder it gets.  But what happens in a lot of cases, including my own, is that the relationship eventually changes.  You're no longer in a mature, adult relationship.  You end up becoming more of a mother.  You constantly are on edge, looking for signs of him using again.  I often could tell when he was going to go on a bender well before he could.  I became resentful and felt like I had 5 kids instead of 4.  I was always bailing him out (literally and figuratively) and making sure he was always doing what he was supposed to be doing, whether it was with work, the legal system, etc.

Keep posting and do what you need to do.  Just don't lose sight of yourself in all this.  You really have to put yourself first.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
P.S. Mellie your information and encouragment has been extremely helpful.  It's nice to see that others have ben where I am (or a similar situation anyway) and have come out strong on the other side!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I have a legal question.  I know that no one here is a lawyer, but just hoping maybe someone has had an experience with this.  My boyfriend is being charged with changing a quantity of "30" to "300".  This means he obtained 3000 mg of methadone.  However, 300 mg was legally prescribed, only 2700 mg was illegally obtained.  He is listed as being charged for 2nd degree criminal possession of a controlled substance.  2nd degree is methadone amounts of 2880 mg to 5759mg.  4th degee would be 360 mg to 2879 mg of methadone.  Is there any chance the charge might be lowered to 4th degree (a much lower level of felony) since he was actually prescribred 300 mg and only "allegedly" obtained an additional 2700mg.  I know this is a small technicality but I am looking for anything I can at this point!! Annnny information would be valuable at this point.  THanks so much guys!  I have found that looking into doing everything I possibly can to help his case makes me feel empowered and alittle less depressed. Maybe only a miniscule amount less depressed but every little bit counts.  I know that every minute I endure is another minute closer to seeing him again.  I am going to the store to buy some white t-shirts and socks and underwear for him.  Hopefully a little something to know he's cared for.  DO you know if most places allow you to put a letter in with these items? I don't want to break any rules but would love him to have a little piece of me with him.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I know how much you're hurting.  First, you have to take care of yourself.  If you don't, you can't help Joe.  I've gone through what you're going through several times with my ex-husband.  The pain and worry of it is awful.  Try to find some support for yourself.  I think there's a forum on here "Living with an Alcoholic," or "Living with an Addict."  You may want to check that out as it will be for you.

Now, first of all, your boyfriend is NOT obligated to say anything.  He should be assigned an attorney (if he can't afford one.)  For right now, he should say absolutely NOTHING to the police.  He has the right to remain silent.  Too many people, in an effort to "cooperate," say things that sound innocent enough.  I mean, if you tell the truth, you'll be okay, right?  Doesn't work that way.  Between all I went through with my ex legally and my ten plus years of work in the courtroom, I can tell you the best thing is to say nothing and follow the advice of his attorney.

Police are notorious for trying to get people to breakdown.  They'll promise things that aren't true.  They play "good cop/bad cop," and they'll try to convince you to talk.  Then they twist your words (or sometimes outright lie) in the courtroom.  They are TRAINED to do this.  Also, the district attorney (or whoever decides exactly what the charges are,) will hang on to things like a dog with a bone.  This is their job.  And like it or not, it's a numbers game.  The more convictions they have, the better it looks for them.  Very often they will overcharge someone with something.  (Once, they charged my husband with attempted murder.  He had backed me into a corner and put his hand around my throat.  Don't get me wrong, he WAS wrong.  But it was an assault and battery NOT attempted murder.)  The reason they do this is because if they overcharge something there's more leeway to reduce the charges but still get some kind of conviction on the books.

Keep trying to get hold of the attorney.  You probably won't get him until Monday.  I'm not sure why you're BF isn't being brought into court on Monday for arraignment.  Usually, at least here, if you're arrested, they hold you in the jail until the next work day and then have the arraignment.  If Joe is really having terrible withdrawals, he needs to exaggerate his symptoms.  Especially because methadone does have such bad withdrawals.  They probably won't care if he's hydrated.  Tell him to complain of chest pain or trouble breathing.  They will have to have him seen by a doctor at the least and possibly will bring him to the emergency room.  Maybe that way he can get some of his symptoms alleviated.  Maybe they'll give him some IV fluids or something to make him more comfortable.

Most importantly, he should say absolutely nothing to the police.  All he has to say is, I want my attorney present.  You will get through this.  You have to.  And in truth it is VERY unlikely that he'll have to serve any time.  His attorney will work with him on this.  If he has no record and genuinely sounds like he wants treatment, the judge is very likely to allow some sort of treatment and then probation.  But it can be a very long, worrisome process.  They won't close his case for a very long time.  He'll have to have probation visits, urine screenings, etc.  It can wear on you because if the probation officer calls and says, "Be in my office by 3," you have to go there.  My ex is still on probation for various things and it's been a couple of years.  (And he still hasn't learned.)  He works over an hour away from the courthouse and often he has to leave work early to go do a urine test.

I can see how broken up you are about this.  I still remember how painful it was.  I wouldn't be able to sleep and spent all my time running around trying to help him with his case.  Try not to do this.  It's the lawyer's job.  All you will do is hurt yourself.  You need to sleep, eat healthy and try not to obsess over things.  I know it sounds impossible to do, but try.

Also, it is very unlikely that they will hold him in jail until his next hearing date.  The judge will set bail and possibly some pretrial restrictions.  The only time someone is held in jail until their trial date is when the person is considered dangerous to the community.  Joe is dangerous to himself.  And the amount of bail is supposed to correlate to the seriousness of the crime.  Murder warrants a higher bail than theft.  The lawyer for the prosecution will always ask for a gigantic bail.  His lawyer will argue for a lower bail.  Usually, the judge comes down somewhere in the middle.  The purpose of bail is to make sure he comes back to the next hearing.  If he has little or no money, the judge may order a lower bail since even $200 could be a lot of money to someone.  His lawyer should ask for him to be released on personal recognizance.  And if your BF doesn't have a criminal record or a short or not serious record, the judge may very well let Joe go on personal recognizance.  He may put in strict orders to attend so many N/A meetings a week, drug testing, etc.

Please try to find some care for yourself.  Try to find an Al-Anon meeting or maybe go see your local priest or minister.  You need someone to support you emotionally through this.  If you have any questions about the legal part of things, just ask and I can tell you what I know.  I know you're scared and are thinking the worst, but remember, the court has seen much, much worse.  The key here is for you BF to get the help he needs.  When he is released (and I believe he will be when he has his hearing date,) he needs to really comply with whatever the judge orders and maybe even do some extra on his own.

If he is truly suffering with the withdrawals, like I mentioned, he needs to tell the person in charge at the jail that he needs to see a doctor.  However he has to do it, he should just do it.  Like I said, telling them he's having chest pain or trouble breathing will likely get him seen.  They don't want a lawsuit on their hands.  They're looking at him like he's just another junkie when the truth of it is he's just another person who got caught up in an addiction and he needs help not jail.

Take some time today for you.  If you're having trouble sleeping, make sure you take some melatonin or Allteril (both are natural and non-habit forming.)  Good sleep is essential for you, as well as good nutrition.  Loving an addict can take a huge toll on someone.  But, again, you cannot help him unless you are in good shape.  You have to be number one.  Just like during his recovery, his sobriety has to come before everything else, right now you have to put you before everything else.  In that way, you'll be able to help him without falling apart physically or emotionally.

Keep posting as it will help you but you really need to find someone in real life to help you through.  In the end, things will all work out, and it could be that all of this will have a profound effect on Joe and will help in his recovery.  Legally, things are not as bleak as you think (nor are they going to be as bad as the police or the district attorney will pretend.)  It is serious but I would be very surprised if he's not released at his arraingment.  His attorney will work on reducing the charges.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I'm not even sure what pharmacy it was.  Over the past year he has used several (which I know is not a good practice, trust me!) But he did three times over the past year, and also at times had to go to different pharmacies because of the amount that he gets not being in stock at one or another.  I am guessing they must already have possession of the script, but they never showed it to him.  They just told him "well, we know you did it, so we have to use this against you to make sure you cooperate".  I just don't even know what to do.  I called the attorney that was assigned to him but haven't gotten a call back.  I called this guy that he had the meeting with who was the one that told me he'd be in a medical ward and that everything would turn out ok and he'd be back to work on Monday...no call back.  I've called him multiple times and left message as has Joe's father, but his phone is off and there is no response.  I am so frustrated because I feel like he lied to me, to Joe and to Joe's father and now he won't even talk to us, probably because he does not care.  Little does he know just how much I am hurting.  This is the WORST pain I have ever been in.  No it is not physical, but I would trade this emotional pain for physical pain in a heartbeat.  I live in a secluded area with no friends near by so I am just so so so so alone and it is unbearable.  I have lived on my own before, but to get so used to being with someone and to have them torn away from you s suddenly, to not be able to call them or see them or even know how they are doing....it is heart wrenching.  I honestly would rather be in an induced coma during this time.  The only time I get any peace is when I sleep, but this past night I even remembered all of this in my dreams, because  was recounting what happened to a friend in my dream.  Plus everytime I wake up it all rushes back to me and I'm overtaken by agonizing sadness.  I'm almost concerned for my own mental health.  Joe's parents said I could go out and visit them anytime I want to be with somebody....but they are over a hour away and I'm afraid of breaking down crying in the car and not being able to drive well.  If he ends up locked up in jail, I just don't know what I'll do.  I know this all sounds irrational, and maybe someday I'll look back on it and think I was just being dramatic, but right now all I know is that it literally feels like my heart has shattered and I'm just clinging to try to keep some of the pieces together.  I feel like I'm in solitary confinement sitting in this apartment by myself, and reaching out on this message board is pretty much my only human contact.  At least on Monday I will be back to work, but it should be interesting to try to hold it all together for a 10 hour day.  I hope that I am strong enough to do it because I can't bare to cry infront of anyone.  I just keep thinking of him behind that glass window breaking down crying (which I have never seen him cry before) and my heart breaks for him.  At least I get the freedom of the outside world.  He is trapped in a cell with his pain and misery..  I apologize for being so lengthy on here but it is my only outlet and I eel as though I will soon collapse into a puddle of a human being from all the sorrow and tears.  I appreciate the encouragement.  While nothing other than Joe being back wil be able to fix this loneliness, at least hearing from people on here gives me a glimmer of hope and a little assurance that maybe I'm not entirely alone.  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
HI.....I would have made them locate the scripts in question the pharmacy"s out here keep a copy of all controlled substance.......Last I heard was this is a free country and I can do anything I want just so it dosent harm the environment or hurt property or people it up to the court to prove him guilty or free not a couple of cops threatening you...at least as the pharmacy to look it up to see there are any errors in how it was wrote....good luck with all of the ...but if I had to do it over it was worth every minute I spent in withdrawals just to be done with it...if they wont give you an answer at the pharmacy get a lawyer I will keep you guys in my prayers God bless....Gnarly      
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I just cannot barely the loneliness of being in this apartment without him.  We have only ever been apart for a few nights when I went to a family wedding, and I was with friends and could cal him all I wanted so I had the easier end of the bargain.  Basically the police took him in on Friday saying they just wanted to ask him some questions regarding his old doctor who is being investigated.  Then they said to him, in order to make sure you cooperate we are going to use something from your past against you. They said they had a script from months and months back that a 0 was added to.  My bf says he really doesn't remember ever adding a 0 to a script.  He says he knows he has a problem, but he would never do that knowing the consequences.  I have doubted his honesty in the past, but I really believe him this time.  I think the police who took him in are being very shady and using tactics to get him to cooperate that aren't right.  He would have cooperated anyway! If he is found guilty it will be a class A felony (the same as murder!!) because of the amount of methadone that the script was for (3000 mg).  I can only imagine how long that would get him put away for?  He is someone who really wants help and has just started seeing a new doctor to get off methadone and then step down off of subutex.  I was told by the police officer on Friday that he would be put in a medical ward because of his withdrawls.  When I went to see him today for his 15 minute constitutional visit I found out this did not happen. He was placed in a cell with about 15 other guys for the night and slept on a concrete floor.  His BP is probably through the roof, yet no doctors are seeing him.  We are both all for him receiving treatment, I just hope the court feels the same way.  This is someone who wants to change his life and has already taken steps in that direction.  I really hope that the court is merciful because I cannot imagine a life without him. He is truly the other half to my soul and I am devastated and a walking, crying zombie here without him.  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
My heart aches for you.  My ex-husband has a severe addiction problem.  I cannot tell you how many times he was arrested due to his addiction.  And I would always run to court and be there for him.  He has, unfortunately, been unable to maintain sobriety, except for a period of 5 years (which were awesome.)  He's worse than ever now, and it kills my kids.  And even though he has caused me a long list of problems, still to this day, I can't say I don't care about what happens to him; I do.  I just can't live with him.

I'm not sure how it will go in your state, but I work in the court (well, I'm out on an injury now) and I have also had experience with my ex (too many to count.)  Very often, especially if the person doesn't have a long criminal record (and sometimes even if they do,) the court will look very favorably on a person who committed a crime due to addiction IF the person is honest and admits his problem and seeks treatment.  Often the court will help to arrange treatment.  Usually, if the person goes to a detox, the court will keep the case open for a while, have several hearings (which can take months or up to a year ... at least here.)  Most of the time, if the person does well with detox and seeks an aftercare program, the judge will often just give them probation.

This could be a huge blessing in disguise.  If your BF gets to a detox and then goes to an aftercare (either inpatient or out,) he could really straighten his life out.  I can understand how you feel; you love him and at the same time you don't want anyone to know.  I will say, from my experience, get yourself some counseling or go to Al-Anon.  Sometimes we don't even realize how much the addict we love is impacting our lives and everything starts to revolve around them.  You must let him do his own recovery.  Support him and love him but don't cover for him or make excuses for him if he slips.  You'll get a lot of tools to help you if you go to Al-Anon.  It is very hard to do this alone.  I didn't want my family to know, but they did.  They knew something wasn't right.

You need to take care of yourself.  Don't let your heart rule your head.  Right now you're probably thinking at a million miles an hour.  I know Thursday seems far away but it really isn't.  I can remember waiting for my ex to be released or for the next court date ... it was torture.  But I hope you have someone in real life to confide in, whether it's at an Al-Anon meeting or a close friend or a counselor.  Really, it can be a heavy burden loving an addict, and it's very easy to lose yourself while trying to care for him.

I hope you keep us posted as to what you have going on.  There is nothing you can do for your BF right now.  Take care of you or you can't take care of anyone else.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Mandy
Perhaps being arrested was a good thing for your BF. Maybe this is what he needs to help propel him forward. Maybe you wrote this somewhere in your posts but has he tried any NA meetings or inpatient detoxing or outpatient counseling? There are many meetings every day in the Syracuse area, and you could even attend without him to help give you strength.
And don't cry please...things will work themselves out. He needs help...and you can be there to help and support him. I am a recovering addict myself so I don't really know what it's like to be on the other side of the fence. However, I do know my husband has been strong and really helped me to keep it together. So hang in there...this won't kill you, but learn from the experience and grow from it.
Good luck!
Helpful - 0
1454150 tn?1288127898
mandy, your not pathetic at all. your in love with a man who has a disease that is progressive and CAN be resistant to treatment! my heart breaks for the both of you! we addicts sometimes forget how much we hurt the ones we love...and i'm sure that he does love you very much.

i don't believe in coincidences, him getting arrested now has to be his journey--some have it harder than others, why? i'm not sure. this will be a test in it's truest form for both of you. do you believe in God? if so cry out  to Him for help for you and joe...He will deliver! you both will get through this and your relationship will be stronger because of it! hang in there! God Bless you both.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi guys. No good news.  Yesterday my boyfriend was taken in by police.  Apparently months ago he changed a quantity on a prescription from "30" to "300".  I am at a total loss.  I am deeply in love with him and am sooo so lost without him.  I have no one to talk to because I don't want anyone to know about this.  I don't want people to unfairly judge him.  They said because he is cooperating with him and helping with their investigation of his MD those things may work in his favor.  He was arraigned this morning and is being kept without bail until his court date on Thursday.  I am deeply depressed, cannot stop crying, I simply don't know what to do.  He told me he loves me more than I will ever know....but yet he has hurt me more than anyone ever has.  Nothing is able to console me, the only thing I want is for him to be here to hold me.  I don't know how I am going to make it until Thursday.  I have to work on Monday and Wednesday...don't know if this will be a good distraction or if I just won't even be able to function there.  I can't sleep, can't eat, can't do anything but cry.  I don't even want to exist until he's with me again....I am pathetic.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
HI Mandy hows he holding up ?? you need to check his B/P it will spike going threw this
wating to here back from you let us know how it going when you read this.......Gnarly
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
hi Mandy....im so sorry for your situation but thats what happens when your not honest with the doctor........I had a hunch this was going to happpen when you told me how high a dose he was on a heroin  addict only needs about 60mg to be ok I got pritty high all the way to 150 but thats where they stop at for pain management the persipatated withdrawals can las a wile
up to 10 days and he is now worst off thenn b/4 I cant imagine the pain hes got to be in
keep an eye on him make sure he stays hydrated that is critical and with the sweating and the runs it dosent take long to dehydrate ....abot the only real releaf hes got is going to be a hot soak for his mussels and bones soaking in ebson salt  lots of gatoraid to drink.....there masy come a time here soon that he cant keep anything down if that happens get a shot glass and try 1 shot water or gatoraid every 15 min this is a minum to be drinking he really needs someone to be with him if you can arrange something here on the forum we call this the 7 level of hell when this happens and with more and more people getting methadone and sub off the street its becoming more common if it mean anything to you  I will keep the 2 of you in my prayers reach out to God thats where I get my strength may God be with both of you.........Gnarly  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thank you for all the information.  Apparently, as I just found out, my boyfriend wasn't completely honest with his doctor.  Because he knew going into the appointment that the MD was considering the use of Oxycontin.  He has had a bad experience with Oxycontin in the past and said he didn't want to feel like a zombie again.  Sooo he told the doctor that during his last week or two on methadone he tapered down to 30mg...not true!  His last dose was 30 mg, but the dose before that was 240.  Obviously lying to the doctor was a mistake...but hind sight is 20/20 huh? He has taken 3 doses of subutex 8 mg since 9 this morning, all at the recommendation and direction of the physician.  His doctor has called back several times to check on his condition (so at least he seems truly interested in his wellbeing).  Unfortunately Joe (my bf)'s status has only gotten worse with each dose.  He has been going through a cycle of sweating to the point he is drenched, then being cold, then being ok for 10 minutes before starting the cycle again.  His back is on fire, he is very anxious and has a terrible headache that resembles a migraine (sensitivity to light and sound).  His MD has now instructed him to take one tablet every 8 hours starting 8 hours from his last dose at 3:15.  I don't know how much worse he has to get before he starts getting better but it is making me nervous and I don't know how much I can do for him.  He is now laying in bed where it is dark and silent.  He took two benadryl, two tablets of melatonin and 600 mg ibuprofen to hopefully help him get more comfortable and be able to sleep.  The lorazepam he got at urgent care is now all gone as it was only  a 5 day supply.  He still has a few days worth of clonidine to at least keep his BP under control.  Joe asked his MD if taking oxycodone or oxycontin or some other pain reliever would help to halt the withdrawals and let the methadone clear out of his system further before restarting the subutex.  The MD didn't think this would be helpful.  I thought we had finally gotten him to where he needed to be with this process and thought the subutex was a god send, but it is now only causing him more pain!
Helpful - 0
569676 tn?1315641158
Hi Mandy,

I just got Gnarly's message, and here I am.

Ive had some Pharmacy training, and am sitting for the PTCE Aug 24th, so with your expertise, you will understand a lot of what I am about to say.

The crazy thing about any type of Buprenorphine treatment is that the practitioners are taught such a limited amount of information before they are certified to prescribe the medication.

Most Buprenorphine treatment providers do not like to script Suboxone or Subutex to methadone patients due to the long serum half life of Methadone.  When I transferred from Methadone to Suboxone, I dropped down to 30mg first for a few weeks, and then had to go 72 hours before my first induction dose.  

Now, take what you have been taught regarding serum half lives.  Its has been roughly 216 hours since your BF's last dose of methadone which I believe was 240mgs.  So lets just use that as a jumpoff point for conversations sake. With an average half life of 36 hours, your BF has undergone approximatelly 6 passes since his last dose.  With my calculations, even after 9 days, your BF had 3.75mgs of active metabolite in his bloodstream when the suboxone was administered!  Thats not even taking into consideration what his actual serum concentration was from the "Build up effect" from the total course of his treatment.  No wonder the poor guy is in withdrawal!

Its great that the doc gave him subutex, I suppose.  But the fact is, that has nothing to do with preventing precipitated wd's.  

The Naloxone that is present in suboxone has almost no bioavailability when taken orally or sublingually. It is present in the combination product simply to deter abuse of the drug intravenously or by insufflation.  Which both routes have an extremely favorable bioavailability with regards to naloxone.

The reason your BF is suffering so badly right now, is the actual dual action of the Buprenorphine.  It has Agonistic and Antagonistic activity at the Mu Opiod receptor sites.  At lower doses it acts more as an Agonist, which is why Temgesic (Buprenorphine for pain control) is often prescribed in common doses of 0.2-0.4 mgs, at higher doses Buprenorphine acts as an Antagonist in the ranges of 4+mgs.  

It has a higher binding affinity to the already occupied Mu Receptors that are currently still occupied by the methadone, thus competing for the neuron... the Buprenorphine wins, thus inducing precipitated withdrawals.

Its hard to say how long the precipitated wd's will prevail before suboxone starts doing its inteded job and making him feel more comfortable.

Personally, I would do some research and call his doctor back, and rethink the Oxycodone idea.  The suboxone is now blocking his receptors, so the oxy may not be of much help for the next day or so.

But his doctors thought process is, to barely maintain him on a fast acting opiod, where he can then detox enough to begin suboxone therapy within 24 hours after his last dose.  While this practice isnt medically approved, many practitioners are going this route, with favorable results.

IF this is what the THREE of you decide, its imperative that your BF is put on a strict dosing schedule. IS there anyone that can maintain the medication and dose him ONLY at the prescribed times?

In the meantime, Have him take the "Clinical Opioid Withdrawal Scale"  also known as the COWS Scale.  Give his Sub doc the number he gets on the test, this will help him evaluate his condition.  You can find the protocol for the COWS test here:

www.csam-asam.org/pdf/misc/COWS_induction_flow_sheet.doc

Also, Check out Dr. Richard Gracers paper on how Buprenorphine works in the brain to combat opiate addiction and withdrawal.  Read it together with him, as its a short and relatively easy read that should be easy for the two of you to understand.  That document can be found here:

www.gracermedicalgroup.com/resources/articles/rf_file_0009.pdf

Just remember, that knowlege is power, and sometimes we have to seek out that knowlege for ourselves, and be our own advocate! :-)

I hope this makes sense, and please feel free to contact with any questions.  Best of luck to the two of you!

Henry
Helpful - 0
1755810 tn?1312495995
Good luck!!!!!!!! He's going through major f'n hell ... Just good luck from me.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
HI Mandy .........I sent some messages out to some of our members that know more about sub then me I do know what the doctor is telling you is right he dont know whats going to happen if ther is still a serum level of methadone in his system he will get deathly sick by taking more sub one of the members I sent a note to will have a better answer for you check back in a few hr im sure he will reply when he sees the note hang in there things will get better.....Gnarly  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
He went to his doctor's appointment today and was prescribed Subutex 8mg twice daily.  The MD gave him a script for a 10 day supply and he has a follow up appt on Tuesday.  They had him take his first dose and stick around for about 2 hours to see how he reacted.  He had little response to it so they had him take a second dose.  He then went home and about 7 hours later felt worse than he did before he took any of it so he called the MD.  The MD told him to take another tablet and that he may feel better or may feel worse.  How long should it take for the subutex to help him?  Is it normal to feel worse before you feel better? I know if he had gotten suboxone there was the risk for induction of withdrawals, but his doctor gave him straight buprenorphine without the naloxone blocker.  I just want him to get some relief!!
Helpful - 0
Have an Answer?

You are reading content posted in the Addiction: Substance Abuse Community

Top Addiction Answerers
495284 tn?1333894042
City of Dominatrix, MN
Avatar universal
phoenix, AZ
Learn About Top Answerers
Didn't find the answer you were looking for?
Ask a question
Popular Resources
Is treating glaucoma with marijuana all hype, or can hemp actually help?
If you think marijuana has no ill effects on your health, this article from Missouri Medicine may make you think again.
Julia Aharonov, DO, reveals the quickest way to beat drug withdrawal.
Tricks to help you quit for good.
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.