Need help to assist my son..

[Angelina Jillian]

My son who is 35 became addicted to hydrocodone when he had kidney stones very bad.  The doctors just cut him off, not helpful to him.  So out of desperation he bought them on the street, any thing he could get, methadone, hydrocodone 15 mg. anything, and he ended up with a 18-20 pill a day addiction for the past 3 years.(yes some oxcotin also)  We did a intervention on him, just us his family.  And he has agreed to allow up to wean him down.  Yet he is afraid, and as his mother, I handed the med's over to his step father so he could not con me, I needed back up.  We are trying to do this quietly because he just got an excellent job with a chance to move up, and he cannot afford to loose it.  

At this point I have him at 8 a day, and want to taper it down more, does anyone know the correct proceedure, and I cannot do it quick, it needs to be carried over for about a month period, because he does have pain also he deals with. He is fighting us a bit, but with my husband he listens, and does not try to play him so much.  He has always been such a strong boy, raising a child by himself working hard, this was something that caught him off guard, and he got carried away.  He hates all the lying, the buying and all that goes with it. Treatment is not an option at this point, His job is very necessary, and for the first time in many years he has his entire family back together, and his child has her mom back home.  This is something we as a family are trying to do together, and none of us are willing to enable him in any way.  His wife is a recovering herione addict with a year clean, and he was MR. MOM. Doctors have not helped.  Any information you can give, or advise I am all ears and asking... Thank you everyone.

[Angelina Jillian]

Good info.. I agree the brain may bring some problems.  I am in agreement with all.  But we still are going to try our best.  We are just beginning to get a bit tougher with rules, and mom is not going to be the one he is accountable to.  I had to have backing so my husband will help now.  He is not so easy to con. I am a bit concerned about using hydro to taper off, I am thinking something else he does not like so well.  But we have stopped all the medication, and only allowed so many a day.  Not enough to be high.  Enough to stop w/d only.  So we will see.  If it back fires we will stop, and we will not help and he will have to go to treatment.  We cannot take it all on, unless he is willing.  Boy I have dealt with pain all my life and never been quite like this.  I have never taken this large amounts of medication, and never just used it to feel good, I used medicaton for pain only, and I was never willing to take the strongest, and medication has never left me pain free.  So this is kinda new and kinda not.  I just know I will never take this strong amount of med's ever.  I expect at some point to be in a wheel chair, and have been told that, and still will not do this.  It is kinda scary to me, to see how far someone can go, and actually have to live with the turmoil.  It is awful

[liscamdave]

First off, welcome to the site. Please continue to post and let us know how your son is and how you are.

My thoughts, your son has an addiction, the first step in helping him he has already taken. An addict has to admit that they have a problem and has to want to get help, himelf. As he has. Now, he still wants his pillls, so tapering may not be the best way, it is a good way and if you continue to monitor him then you will eventually get him down to nothing, but the mental aspect will be present for some time. Once he is at the point where he knows he cannot have any pills, it is going to get harder. A three year addiction is very long, and his brain is used to and can only function properly with the opiates, so when they are taken away completely, it is going to be tuff for him. I completely understand that he cannot do an in-patient program right now, I myself couldn't do it either when I did my detox. I chose to do outpatient and work through it. I also have a child and lost my husband, so my w/d was a nightmare. He can do an outpatient program, where he can still work and get off the drugs. He will need support, so you will need to help him and be there for him. Looking up and reading about Suboxone is a good idea.There are other outpatient programs, I did the buprenporphine/Naltrexone program. It was a total 7-10 days, then thats it, your done and off the opiates. I was given meds to help me with the w/d and although it wasn't easy,I did it and am not almost 60 days clean....there is something called a pellet, that your son can get, its placed in the arm or leg, and releases Naltrexone into the body every day and once injected, your son will not be able to injest any opiates for at least three months, At the end of three months, he can go and get another pellet. Naltrexone, is a med that blocks all opiate receptors in the brain, if you try to take any pills (opiates) while you are on Naltrexone, you will experience severe w/d. It can be injected with a pellet, that again releases the Naltrexone every day, or it can be taken orally, pill form, daily. Naltrexone is not addictive at all. For me, it was a miracle drug. I take it orally, and it works great. Anyway, there are many things you can do to detox him at home, or out patient. But I would see a dr. If tapering him off works, then great...more power to you and your son..but the aftermath, after the w.d is over and the detox is finished, the depression and the cravings will set in..that is where the battle starts and believe me, it is nothing short of a life-long battle....I hope things work out for you...

Good luck and keep us posted....

Lisa

[beachtowel]

I was a functioning addict I worked my whole life that is if I had the drugs to fuel me......

Your comment "he isn't that bad" will be an issue that you will have to deal with for years to come
but that is your business...........

I don't know his history but everytime he has pain that will be his trigger.......becareful with that........

[Angelina Jillian]

Your article was great and today I took a big leap of faith, I had to be tough with him.  So my husband and I gave him 6- T-4's and said two for morning, two four hours later and two for bed.  Then we said if you take more than that, we do not give you any more until the following day, regardless if you cannot sleep.  You will have to be miserable or work it the way we say.  He said alright, and told us the night was the worst, so if we are going to cut it down work with day time first.  So on his day off he will get 1 1/2 twice a day and two at night, next day off he will get 1 twice a day and 1 and 1/2 at night, and so on.  My husband locks them up so I can cannot feel sorry for him and give in, and he seems alright right now.  He tried to kinda play it at first,like I lost them, yeh right, but now he is calming down and sticking to it.  The nights he has knee pain and he does have some kind of rumatory problem that will need to be checked into to. So I read him your article and he was impressed with it, so I said STOP CHEWING THEM!  YOUR SPIKING THEM!!  CHANGE THE BEHAVIOR AND HOW YOU TAKE THEM.  He laughed.  But understood.  Thank you so much, I do not expect over night success but I do believe we are on our way to some relief.. This is stressful..

[FLaddict]

ITs from another addiction site. A member wrote it and they made it a "sticky"  I came across it and saved it to my desktop. I believe the site is heroin-detox.com  they have a bunch of different forums..

Yes.. you are right tommorrow is the BIG 40!!! Thanks

[Angelina Jillian]

This job is an important job, we live in a small community where jobs are not avalilable easy.  He has one that he has waited for so long, and he has conqured drug addiction a long time ago.  He actually got hooked when he began this kidney stone thing.  He was having huge ones pass about one time a week, and ended up in the hospital finally.  Where they pumped him full of stronger drugs.  He just got hooked on the feeling. Life was easier etc... But now it is a monkey on his back.  He cannot afford to loose his family, his home and his income. He has waited too long and came too far.  He just had a hard time, and he was very ill for awhile.  He was producing large amounts of stones that caused him to be ill for awhile.  He will be fine once he gets past the need physcially for the drug, the longer he is without the longer he does not crave it.  He does not need treatment right now.  If I thought he did I would do that, and I have worked with addicted people for many years.  He lives a pretty normal life, and this is hidden.  He wants out of it.  We are going to do what FLaddict suggested first... But thank you for caring, if it does not work, then of course we will look at the other options.  His life is worth that to us.  Sometimes I believe we put so much in treatment we do not look at the fact it is not always needed, he is not that bad.  He works, he cleans his house, and is a wonderful cook, takes care of his children, and was MR. MOM for years by himself, and that was it, he was alone, trying to raise a girl, now he has he family finally back together, and the worst is over, and this job is very important.  

[CATUF]

That article is quite good.  Thank you.  
Can you tell me where that came from?

Congrats on the Big-40 -- that's tomorrow, isn't it?

[beachtowel]

addiction is very powerful if he is an addict he will deal with taking narcotic pain pills for the rest of his life..........
This pattern of distorted thinking has to stop putting the pressure of not loosing this important job will fuel the fire of addiction.....
Not giving into his pain is so legitamate so he cannot stop using........
Hes justifying, your enabling and dad wants his son to work and will feed him pills if he does........

There is only one way to save your son.......get him off all drugs all pain meds........

[beachtowel]

The job your son has is not the only job in the world.......
I would 100% concentrate on fixing him first........
If he is truly an addict his addiction should take priority over any job........
Your son is 35 and was taking 20 pain pills a day for three yrs........
stones are a common problem today but are you saying he has stones everyday of his life.......
To worry about his job is minimizing his addiction and it doesn't work that way..his addiction will win..
Addiction is very powerful its not just the pills that his brain will scream for his thinking process has been altered.......his emotions have been altered.........
Put him in an inpatient detox then right into an inpatient drug rehab then after care after that......

[FLaddict]

He may need some meds from a doctor at some point during this... clonidine is a great one that helps with alot of withdrawl symptoms by lowering the spike in blood pressure Wd causes.. also something for sleep would be helpful..

[Angelina Jillian]

I am printing your artcile so my husband can help me with this.  Yeh my son was chewing them up alwasy.. I had never heard of that, yuk~ I had heard him mention snorting but he did not say he did it, so I am not sure, he most likely does not tell us everything... you know how that is...

[FLaddict]

yeah chewing is no good.. neither is taking them on a empty stomach.. that spikes the levels in the blood.. This can work if you and your hubby help him..
Another way to go is Suboxone Detox... it would have to be done with a doctor though but it is outpatient and can help if its used for a short time and only to detox not for maintence therapy.. you can go to suboxone.com for more info... I ended up doing that in the end even though I tapered.. I was down to a small amount of pills but still scared of the withdrawl.. so I did 10 days of Sub detox and never looked back.. that was well over a month ago and I have never felt better..

[Angelina Jillian]

I forgot to tell you we have 10/650 hydro and he was taking 4-5 three times a day and 2 at night, yeh a lot... scary... I have him on 3 twice a day and two at night.  He vomits and cannot sleep without it.  He begins to vomit right away after not having them one day.  
He has some rumatory problems in his knees, and no kidney stones to be seen.  His legs and feet hurt real bad. That is why I want to withdraw slowly.  

[FLaddict]

I would also recomend picking up either books  END YOUR ADDICTION NOW or The Mood Cure there is great info on taking amino acids to start to rebuild the damage to the brain chemistry that is done by taking the pain pills.. It really messes with out ability to regulate our moods.. correcting this can help with cravings and get someon better faster there is less of a chance of relapse..

[FLaddict]

Here is an article that helped me alot while tapering down.. spreading the doses out slowly father and farther therefore eliminating dose helped me.. There are many tapering methods out there but this one made the most sense to me..He must take them on a strict schedule of every X amount of hours apart with the exception of nighttime.. So 8 per day divided by the 16 hours he is probably awake would be every 2 hours.. or every 3 hours depending on his sleeping habits. Start moving the doses farther by 30mins each day.. when you get to 4 pills a day I suggest spliting them in half and taking them that way.. a constant stream will be helpful.. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask me.. my email address can be found by clicking on my screen name its in my profile..


Time for some technical talk... One of the things which increases "dependence" is a spike in drug blood plasma levels. Addicts do this on purpose to get a "high". They do it by Snorting (Very fast delivery), IV Injections, Chewing up meds and taking on an empty stomach.

The above all produce the most amount of drug in the blood in an attempt to get a buzz. These spikes are one of the reasons we addicts get hooked faster than a COMPLIANT Chronic Pain Patient.

Being compliant means they take only as directed. The goal of compliance is to maintain an even blood plasma at the minimum amount to treat PAIN and NOT to produce euphoria (a high).

Since the blood plasma levels are lower, the levels of dopamine at the synaptic cleft do not spike so the receptor sites do not downregulate or decrease in number in response to the initially MUCH higher level of dopamine released as a result of spiking.

Addictive dosing behaviors, the large doses associated to Spike the blood plasma level, vs the lower low dosing and more often which is the KEY factor to the physical changes the brain makes which cause dependency.

Dependency is the actual physical changes to your body which cause withdrawal. Addiction is the BEHAVIOR of taking the drugs to get high, not as prescribed, and when not needed for clinical reasons. It is the un-manageable behaviors associated with lack of control.

Which comes first... Dependence or addiction? Usually it's addiction, but it can be the other way, but the key issue which causes the progression of addiction are the behaviors.

Addiction is what makes you take more and more, spiking doses, etc. This in turn increases dependence. The higher your dependence the higher the tollerance... Round and round you go. The addiction merry-go-round.

How to break the cycle? The only way is to change the behavior. That is a very difficult thing. Pain is usually a very good motivator. So is Euphoria. When the pain out weighs the euphoria one starts to consider breaking the cycle. Unfortunately the pain being eliminated by the drug is a driving force. Then the addict associated the RELIEF of th pain to the drug instead of the drug being the CAUSE of the pain.

SOoooooooo what to do? Break the cycle.

Many have to hit bottom to do that. That's the point where the pain of using overwhelms the relief of using. It's an emotional point which is different for different people. Not every one has to hit a bottom to quit. The sooner you quit the less pain and suffering you have to experience.

For folks who are on smaller doses and their disease has not progressed very far, they have not felt the extent of pain addiction can cause. Only conceptualizing how bad it can get may not be good enough to motivate a person early in addiction to quit.

Intellectually we know what lays ahead. We hear the truth from others, but yet we continue to use. It is not until we get a glimpse of the pain that lays ahead do we become to believe we need to quit. One HAS to believe that in fact addiction does lead to the loss of everything and eventually Jails Institutions and Death.

Addiction is a lot easier to nip in the bud physically but maybe not emotionally because one has not experienced the pain first hand. Some need more pain than others to quit. Some don't make it and end up end stage and their addiction wins.

If you want to get off of the pills you have to change your behavior.

1) STOP SNORTING your pills!
2) Stop spiking your dose!
3) stop taking enough to get high

You will never quit until you do that. Weather you can or not is up to you.

You have to come to a point where you make the decision you want to quit. The en you have to make a plan then you have to execute that plan. SIMPLE .... but not easy.

The solution from a clinical point of view for you at your point of addiction is so easy. A simple taper, and change the behavior. In short break the cycle.

How to do a taper is easy. Changing the behavior is the HARD part, but you have to want to change.

If you are taking 6 pills a day... then start taking them in even doses and don't take like 3-4 at a time. 24 hrs divided by 6 = 4 hrs. So only take one pill every 4 hrs. Then take 5 pills in 24 hrs. That's 4.8 hrs. Then 4 pills a day... break pills into 1/2's so you have 8 1/2 pills. and take 1/2 a pill every 3 hrs. Etc.

If you can't stick to a taper give the pills to a friend to dispense.

Mean while .. you have to start changing the way you think and the things you do... You should educate yourself... Good place to do all of that is NA or AA. It's FREE and takes up time. It forces you to be doing something other than sitting around with nothing to do and just thinking about using.

It's not the only way, but it's a good place to start. Take what you need from it, and leave the rest.

If you take the same amount or less every day and don't spike your dose you will eventually quit.

30 mg of Hydro can be tapered to 0 in 2-4 weeks painlessly. The PAWS will be minimal too.

... The ball is in your court. We can not make you do anything. Only YOU can.

When you are ready is up to you. If you need to stay "out there" using and see for yourself how bad it will get that's up to you.

My recommendation.. Start to QUIT now! It will be a whole lot easier.