Aa
Norco to Suboxone to Tramadol
Hi. I am need of some assistance in getting "completely" clean. I was a heavy Norco abuser 15 of the 10/325mg per day and then asked my doctor for Suboxone to get off. It worked and it worked well and I slowly tapered off the low dose suboxone. I even went down to a 1/4 tablet twice a day for the last few days. Unfortunately after 24 hours I was down for the count. Hard flu like symptoms, heavy anxiety but the worst was the depression and the suicidal thought. I never experienced the strong suicidal thing with the norco witdhrawals in the past and I really was fearful for my life. I did some research on the internet and found out this was relatively common with suboxone withdrawal even at the slowest taper. So.... instead of taking my life I went to the emergency room and asked for Tramadol as I was hoping and praying it would ease the suffering but yet keep me away from Norco. By the grace of god it did save my life, but I understand I have traded my suffering for another. I have been taking 3 to 4 of the 50mg per day for 8 days now. I want to stop and reclaim my life but I am really fearful of the repercussions.
I just missed a week of work due to the Suboxone WD's so I cant miss any more work. What can I expect if I stop the Tramadol at this time? I think I can get down to a 1/2 a tablet during the day and then just 2 pills at night, but still would have me at 125mg per day. Has anyone been down this similar path? Anyone have any ideas on what I should expect? The anxitey and restless legs/loss of sleep is the part that really gets me me the worst so please advise. Thanks again everyone.
I just missed a week of work due to the Suboxone WD's so I cant miss any more work. What can I expect if I stop the Tramadol at this time? I think I can get down to a 1/2 a tablet during the day and then just 2 pills at night, but still would have me at 125mg per day. Has anyone been down this similar path? Anyone have any ideas on what I should expect? The anxitey and restless legs/loss of sleep is the part that really gets me me the worst so please advise. Thanks again everyone.
Ok, listen, don't be scared. This will feel awful, but that's normal. I really do feel that if you're feeling suicidal when you don't take drugs, you need to see a doc asap. The tramadol, at the dose I had advised, will still give you some WDs when you stop, but I'm way more concerned with what it's doing to your mind. Suicidal thoughts are scary! DANGEROUS! We have known people on here who had to be hospitalized for that reason, so be very careful and listen to what your mind is telling you. The physical part will go away. No worries there. It'll take a few days, but you will be ok.
The question about how bad the WDs are is hard to answer. It's different for everyone no matter the drug. It usually takes about 72 hours from the last pill to start getting better, and gets better slowly from there. Drugs like methadone and suboxone take longer because they have a longer half life. Methadone being the longest, I've been told and read. If you take the OTC stuff that we recommend and lots of hot baths, you will get through it. The mental part is a different story. Please don't ignore the thoughts and don't just medicate them with a different drug, because that's not the answer either!
The question about how bad the WDs are is hard to answer. It's different for everyone no matter the drug. It usually takes about 72 hours from the last pill to start getting better, and gets better slowly from there. Drugs like methadone and suboxone take longer because they have a longer half life. Methadone being the longest, I've been told and read. If you take the OTC stuff that we recommend and lots of hot baths, you will get through it. The mental part is a different story. Please don't ignore the thoughts and don't just medicate them with a different drug, because that's not the answer either!
Your question would get more attention and responses if you start your own thread versus asking a question in someone else's thread. If you scroll up to the top of the page, you'll see an orange button that says, "post a question". Click on that, and post your own thread. There are lots of great people here who will help you and support you. You can also browse through older threads for info.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Lesa,
You mentioned in a previous post that you were able to get off of oxycodone 30mg. Can you tell me how much you were taking, and how bad the withdrawals were ?
I am scared to death.
You mentioned in a previous post that you were able to get off of oxycodone 30mg. Can you tell me how much you were taking, and how bad the withdrawals were ?
I am scared to death.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Tramadol affects the same receptors as opiates do. More and more doctors are jumping on board and realizing these are causing many problems both with addiction and wd's. Hopefully all states will get on board and put this on the controlled substance list. Bananas are good for the RLS. I used to also have my dog lay on my legs. Soaking in a warm bath helps also. Try and stay active during the day. The anxiety and sleeplessness will go away. This is very hard i know but try and be patient. It will happen.
Hi you have done your homework...I was on all of those at one time..I went up the latter to a 12 yr methedone plus othere pills with..I tryed the subs for four days and just Jumped form it all..The subs just tweek me worse..The anxitey and sleep is always a big issue when we come clean..I am now in my 7m and those issues took me a while..I take alot of magnz, ds, cals, and sometimes a melatonin for this..at night..I also used this powerder stuff called "Calm" it has some of the things mentioned above..I do not use it any more because all of this does pass...Drugs affect the Nervous system really bad..It takes a while for it to balance out...I also take things to balance out the chems in the brain that get knocked down by use..It does take awhile for the Serintoin (happyone) Enorphines and Gabba to balance back...Do some more wed search on the "Disaease of Additction and the Pleasure Pathway" and it could takeyou for a ride into finding what helps "natual" to help the brain..OK
Just Ride the Wave it does go away..
vickie
Just Ride the Wave it does go away..
vickie
More and more states are making tramadol a scheduled narcotic (schedule IV I believe). Sadly, a lot of practioners still are not fully aware of how addictive it can be (not to mention the other issues, like seizures when abusing large amts). You can browse the forum, there are countless tales of tram nightmares.
Tram w/ds are very similar to opiate w/ds, so the symptoms may vary. I would really try to keep yourself distrated as much as you can. I'm glad your doc is aware of what's going on.
Tram w/ds are very similar to opiate w/ds, so the symptoms may vary. I would really try to keep yourself distrated as much as you can. I'm glad your doc is aware of what's going on.
I just explained what was happening with my primary doctor. I have been very open with him regarding my Norco abuse over the years and multiple surgeries, and I asked him about the suboxone treatment. He did agree but did warn me about issues. Anyway....he is a D.O. and is a very, very educated individual, but I just called his office to discuss the tramadol and was surprised that they too considered it a non narcotic and non addictive. Though he did say you could experience some wd like symptoms when stopping. I am surprised by the lack of education/information regarding this medication so I did my best to inform him otherwise. I mentioned to them the thousands of us who are suffering though mine might seem small to many who have used it for years, and that they should be aware that problems do exist. He was open to hearing what I had to say, but could only recommend that I begin breaking them in half. Is it just me or is the Anxiety and the restless legs and lack of sleep the WORST part of tramadol wd's? The aches and flu and diarrhea are uncomfortable but bearable and manageable. The anxiety, rls and sleeplessness are not. At leas for me. Any thoughts?
I felt no wd's while taking the suboxone, but when I stopped I got really sick. Then by day 2 thru 5 I had horrible suicidal thoughts and knew I made the wrong move by taking suboxone. I never felt anything like that before and I have been through norco withdrawals in the past. Now the 8 days of tram and the anxiety is kicking in big time.
Well, I dont think you are getting withdrawls from the suboxone, You have to take it over 21 days to feel withdrawl. Plus you weren't taking that much mgs either. How did you feel when you was taking the sub?
I was on the Suboxone for the 14 day treatment. It was 2 a day for the first 2 days and then one per day. I actually cut them down to 1/4's near the end. It was the SUBOXONE 2MG/0.5MG SUBLINGUAL TABS. The last time I took the 1/4 tablet was 15 days ago. I suffered terribly for 4 days and then started the tram 50mg. I have been taking 3 to 4 per day for the last 8 days. Yesterday 3 and a half. Today just a 1/2 thus far. Most likely 2 tonight but hopefully just 1. Where does this put me Clong45?
Hello,
How long was you on the Suboxone? How long and at what doses? Those two will determine how long the Suboxone wd will last.
How long was you on the Suboxone? How long and at what doses? Those two will determine how long the Suboxone wd will last.
Well.....It's been almost 24 hours since I took my last larger dose. I took 3 yesterday around 2pm and I have only taken a 1/2 of a 50mg today. I feel large waves of anxiety hitting though. Hopefully they wont get much worse.
No doubt it scared you...I'm sure it was terrifying. It WOULD be nice if there was a way we could predict how bad w/ds are going to be....like you said, the fear of the unknown is hard.
Honestly, there IS a big part of it that's "mind over matter". If you TRY (I know it's not easy) not to think too much and worry too much about the w/ds...and go into it thinking positively, that they will not be bad, and that you'll do fine, you may really do much better! The mindset is a strong influence on these kinds of things. As you're tapering down the remaining trams, stay busy, stay distracted, and try hard to think as little as you can about the w/ds. That will help a lot.
I truly hope this goes very well for you, and it might! Really, it may be much better than you imagine.
Keep us posted! We're all pulling for you to do well!
Honestly, there IS a big part of it that's "mind over matter". If you TRY (I know it's not easy) not to think too much and worry too much about the w/ds...and go into it thinking positively, that they will not be bad, and that you'll do fine, you may really do much better! The mindset is a strong influence on these kinds of things. As you're tapering down the remaining trams, stay busy, stay distracted, and try hard to think as little as you can about the w/ds. That will help a lot.
I truly hope this goes very well for you, and it might! Really, it may be much better than you imagine.
Keep us posted! We're all pulling for you to do well!
Thanks Nursegirl6757.
I appreciate all the advice and the support as well. Just for clarification the suicidal thoughts have never been an issue from my previous norco withdrawals. The only time this happened was when I stopped the 14 day suboxone treatment and extremely slow taper from the med. I have never experienced that with vicodin or norco etc. It scared the you know what out of me and I caved. I accept my fault in that issue. I'm tired....beat...defeated and this is my last rodeo of this crap. I simply want to get off this last bit of tramadol and start feeling 100% again. I'm just trying to figure out "what" is going to happen when I stop the tramadol, but I guess that is a big unknown?
I appreciate all the advice and the support as well. Just for clarification the suicidal thoughts have never been an issue from my previous norco withdrawals. The only time this happened was when I stopped the 14 day suboxone treatment and extremely slow taper from the med. I have never experienced that with vicodin or norco etc. It scared the you know what out of me and I caved. I accept my fault in that issue. I'm tired....beat...defeated and this is my last rodeo of this crap. I simply want to get off this last bit of tramadol and start feeling 100% again. I'm just trying to figure out "what" is going to happen when I stop the tramadol, but I guess that is a big unknown?
It's impossible to predict what kind of w/d you will have. Most likely, there will be something. It's been 2 weeks since you were on the subs, correct? If so, there still very well could be some lingering symptoms of w/d from that...on top of any symptoms you may have from the trams. That's the thing, when you go from one to another, unless you're talking MONTHS in between the two meds, then you usually still have to contend with the last med to some degree. It's kind of a snowball effect.
I DO understand that you were dealing with suicidal ideations, and I understand that you were looking for a way to take that out of the equation...I just think there were many other, more optimal ways to handle that that didn't involve turning to another med. That IS self medicating, no matter how you look at it. I get that you weren't seeking a new high, but self medicating is still a facet of addiction. I would have recommended you seeking some professional help to deal with both the addiction, and the suicidal thoughts...instead of trying another med to combat the w/d symptoms from the last med. Like I said, definitely a merry go round.
I sure hope you do better coming off the tramadol, but what if, again, you have severe w/d symptoms, especially emotional ones, like depression and suicidal thoughts? All of these meds affect you emotionally. What are you going to do at that point? You need to have a plan in place in case that happens...one that doesn't involve finding another med or substance to try to deal with those symptoms. Make sure you're prepared, JUST in case, so you can get some help. I would recommend seeking some professional help NOW. That would be even better...a therapist could help you through this.
What kind of plan do you have for aftercare? Have you looked into any AA/NA meetings? Private therapy from a practioner who has experience with addiction? That needs to be a top priority for you. I know the w/d symptoms stink, and no doubt they can be rough. There's a whole forum full of threads here describing each person's experience with w/ds....but in the BIG picture, the w/ds are the easy part. It's STAYING clean that is the hard part...and so many addicts get SO overly focused on the w/d part, that they place less importance on the aftercare. You absolutely CAN do this...you can detox off completely, it just necessarily won't be easy. If you can ACCEPT that you may feel lousy for a short time, that will help you immensely get through the w/ds. I think what happens is, as soon as the w/d becomes severe enough, you sort of "panic" and look to use another med to help THOSE symptoms. That's the habit you have to break.
While we cannot give specific taper instructions, it's not too hard to formulate a plan to cut down. If you can, I would highly recommend getting a doctor on board to help you with this. IF your suicidal thoughts reoccur, please seek professional help immediately. THAT is the only solution in that situation. Turning to another med isn't a reasonable way to "save your life" in that instance. Suicidal thoughts are nothing to mess with. You need to be sure you're getting help, ASAP, in those cases. OK?
Good luck to you!
I DO understand that you were dealing with suicidal ideations, and I understand that you were looking for a way to take that out of the equation...I just think there were many other, more optimal ways to handle that that didn't involve turning to another med. That IS self medicating, no matter how you look at it. I get that you weren't seeking a new high, but self medicating is still a facet of addiction. I would have recommended you seeking some professional help to deal with both the addiction, and the suicidal thoughts...instead of trying another med to combat the w/d symptoms from the last med. Like I said, definitely a merry go round.
I sure hope you do better coming off the tramadol, but what if, again, you have severe w/d symptoms, especially emotional ones, like depression and suicidal thoughts? All of these meds affect you emotionally. What are you going to do at that point? You need to have a plan in place in case that happens...one that doesn't involve finding another med or substance to try to deal with those symptoms. Make sure you're prepared, JUST in case, so you can get some help. I would recommend seeking some professional help NOW. That would be even better...a therapist could help you through this.
What kind of plan do you have for aftercare? Have you looked into any AA/NA meetings? Private therapy from a practioner who has experience with addiction? That needs to be a top priority for you. I know the w/d symptoms stink, and no doubt they can be rough. There's a whole forum full of threads here describing each person's experience with w/ds....but in the BIG picture, the w/ds are the easy part. It's STAYING clean that is the hard part...and so many addicts get SO overly focused on the w/d part, that they place less importance on the aftercare. You absolutely CAN do this...you can detox off completely, it just necessarily won't be easy. If you can ACCEPT that you may feel lousy for a short time, that will help you immensely get through the w/ds. I think what happens is, as soon as the w/d becomes severe enough, you sort of "panic" and look to use another med to help THOSE symptoms. That's the habit you have to break.
While we cannot give specific taper instructions, it's not too hard to formulate a plan to cut down. If you can, I would highly recommend getting a doctor on board to help you with this. IF your suicidal thoughts reoccur, please seek professional help immediately. THAT is the only solution in that situation. Turning to another med isn't a reasonable way to "save your life" in that instance. Suicidal thoughts are nothing to mess with. You need to be sure you're getting help, ASAP, in those cases. OK?
Good luck to you!
I'll try just a 1/2 of a 50mg in the morning and a 1/2 at night for a few days and then try to stop altogether by this Thursday night. By Friday it would be 14 days of tramadol usage.
Is there WD's at that low dosage?
Please advise and thanks so much to everyone!
Is there WD's at that low dosage?
Please advise and thanks so much to everyone!
Thanks LeaAnn807.
I am very aware of the merry go round and I am trying to brake that issue. The only reason for the Tram was due to the suicidal thoughts from the suboxone detox. I did it to safe my life and I was not trying to replace one for the other. I know it sounds like I was...but it was a matter of saving my life that I did so. To live to fight another day was my thought process. I try just a 1/2 of a 50mg in the morning and a 1/2 at night for a few days and then try to stop altogether. Is there WD's at that low dosage? By friday it will be 2 weeks of tramadol usage. Please advise and thanks so much to everyone!
I am very aware of the merry go round and I am trying to brake that issue. The only reason for the Tram was due to the suicidal thoughts from the suboxone detox. I did it to safe my life and I was not trying to replace one for the other. I know it sounds like I was...but it was a matter of saving my life that I did so. To live to fight another day was my thought process. I try just a 1/2 of a 50mg in the morning and a 1/2 at night for a few days and then try to stop altogether. Is there WD's at that low dosage? By friday it will be 2 weeks of tramadol usage. Please advise and thanks so much to everyone!
Yeah, this is a pretty dangerous game to play. Tramadol may be the worst of the ones you have been on so far, believe it or not. The real depression may hit when you stop it! It has a sort of anti depressant in it. You can still stop. It's not too late. Take a half in morning and night. Don't look to feel "good" just look to take enough not to be sick. Just do that for a few days, like maybe two or three at most. I would think that the safest thing to do at this point is to speak with a doctor. You may wanna go on an AD. Or some other support meds, but you don't want anything controlled, or you start the roller coaster over again!
Hello there!
Well, quite frankly, you're on a merry-go-round. Once you try to stop one drug, when the w/ds get tough, you are turning to another med to ease the w/ds...and are then stuck trying to get off THAT med. Actually, there is a BIG component of emotional w/d during detox from any of these meds. While I would normally recommend someone asking their doc about an antidepressant, I wouldn't in your case right now for a few reasons.
For one, tramadol has anti-depressant properties, and taking an AD concurrently with trams may lead to some issues. There have even been reports of serotonin syndrome when tramadol and SSRI antidepressants are used together. I'm also concerned that you said (in reference to antidepressants), that you have "some handy". What exactly do you have? Antidepressants aren't something you can just take "as needed". They take weeks before the effectiveness becomes noticeable. Plus, that kind of fuels that self medicating problem. While an antidepressant may absolutely be something appropriate for you at some point, I wouldn't recommend it now, not while you're still on the trams. Maybe when you're completely off, then you can discuss that with your doctor. If you have any history of depression or anxiety, that needs addressed anyway, as it could be very much related to your addiction.
Because tramadol DOES have some pretty significant antidepressant properties, you may very well experience some emotional (depression, anxiety) symptoms while coming off those as well. ALL of these meds will cause an emotional w/d unfortunately. You need to formulate a plan on how you're going to deal with that.
My honest opinion is, you REALLY need to do this with the help of a medical professional...for one, because you ARE on that merry go round and are having a hard time getting off whichever med you're on at the time. Two, because of your severe depressive symptoms that you had with the subs, I think having some professional help to aid you in navigating through this is important.
You COULD taper off the trams, but again, you're going to probably (again) get to the point where, when it becomes difficult, you will be looking to turn to something else to ease the symptoms. You need to break that cycle. That's where therapy, meetings, etc (aftercare) is going to be helpful. You have identified where in the process you get hung up, and have some ideas as to why (the intensity of the w/d symptoms)...so with that info, you need to make some changes to get you through that part. I think trying to do this on your own isn't the most optimal plan. I think the more outside support you can have, the more successful you will be, for the long-term. I would even recommend inpatient detox/rehab if you could pull it off. You would probably do VERY well in that kind of setting.
I know work is an issue, and you're already worried, due to having missed days already. If you've been at your job for 12 months or more, you can apply for an FMLA. You can use an FMLA to actually take a leave of absence, or you can use it to help excuse some of your absences (the ones that are related to the reason you got the FMLA). All you would have to do is ask your HR dept for the paperwork, and talk to your boss about the fact that you're going to be needing to be off more. The paperwork would have to be filled out by your doctor. I personally think the LOA is the best route...because you can deal with everything all at once, and your employer can plan for your absence, and get someone to fill in, versus you calling off here and there. That's more difficult for an employer to handle.
Very best to you!!! I hope you slay this beast once and for all!
Well, quite frankly, you're on a merry-go-round. Once you try to stop one drug, when the w/ds get tough, you are turning to another med to ease the w/ds...and are then stuck trying to get off THAT med. Actually, there is a BIG component of emotional w/d during detox from any of these meds. While I would normally recommend someone asking their doc about an antidepressant, I wouldn't in your case right now for a few reasons.
For one, tramadol has anti-depressant properties, and taking an AD concurrently with trams may lead to some issues. There have even been reports of serotonin syndrome when tramadol and SSRI antidepressants are used together. I'm also concerned that you said (in reference to antidepressants), that you have "some handy". What exactly do you have? Antidepressants aren't something you can just take "as needed". They take weeks before the effectiveness becomes noticeable. Plus, that kind of fuels that self medicating problem. While an antidepressant may absolutely be something appropriate for you at some point, I wouldn't recommend it now, not while you're still on the trams. Maybe when you're completely off, then you can discuss that with your doctor. If you have any history of depression or anxiety, that needs addressed anyway, as it could be very much related to your addiction.
Because tramadol DOES have some pretty significant antidepressant properties, you may very well experience some emotional (depression, anxiety) symptoms while coming off those as well. ALL of these meds will cause an emotional w/d unfortunately. You need to formulate a plan on how you're going to deal with that.
My honest opinion is, you REALLY need to do this with the help of a medical professional...for one, because you ARE on that merry go round and are having a hard time getting off whichever med you're on at the time. Two, because of your severe depressive symptoms that you had with the subs, I think having some professional help to aid you in navigating through this is important.
You COULD taper off the trams, but again, you're going to probably (again) get to the point where, when it becomes difficult, you will be looking to turn to something else to ease the symptoms. You need to break that cycle. That's where therapy, meetings, etc (aftercare) is going to be helpful. You have identified where in the process you get hung up, and have some ideas as to why (the intensity of the w/d symptoms)...so with that info, you need to make some changes to get you through that part. I think trying to do this on your own isn't the most optimal plan. I think the more outside support you can have, the more successful you will be, for the long-term. I would even recommend inpatient detox/rehab if you could pull it off. You would probably do VERY well in that kind of setting.
I know work is an issue, and you're already worried, due to having missed days already. If you've been at your job for 12 months or more, you can apply for an FMLA. You can use an FMLA to actually take a leave of absence, or you can use it to help excuse some of your absences (the ones that are related to the reason you got the FMLA). All you would have to do is ask your HR dept for the paperwork, and talk to your boss about the fact that you're going to be needing to be off more. The paperwork would have to be filled out by your doctor. I personally think the LOA is the best route...because you can deal with everything all at once, and your employer can plan for your absence, and get someone to fill in, versus you calling off here and there. That's more difficult for an employer to handle.
Very best to you!!! I hope you slay this beast once and for all!
I have them handy if needed so thanks, but I would like to know more about the WD's and such from the Tramadol and what to expect on my dosage.
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