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Addiction: Substance Abuse Community
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Avatar universal

Painkillers

I have a friend who has been experimenting with painkillers lately, mainly hydrocone, and some tylenol #3. I was wondering what the long term affects of codeine-based pain killers such as these? I know with the tylenol #3 the acetaminophen can cause liver problems but are there any other long term or short term affects of using these types of drugs for recreational purposes? My friend has no pain he just uses them for fun, and sometimes uses them when he drinks because he says he does not need to drink as much, are there any long/short term affects of this? And how long would it take for him to become addicted and not being able to stop without experiencing withdrawl symptoms. He uses I think ~50-200mg (around 50mg when he drinks and between 100-200mg when he doesn't drink with them) and only does it like 2-4 times per month. He weighs like 140 pounds (not sure if that is helpful or not). Could you give me a rough estimate as to the affects of this type of usage (I know it is different person to person but just a ballpark)? I think it just might be a phase he is going through because my friends, myself included, have all experimented with drugs a decent amount, but I am just curious as to the short/long term affects of this type of usage, and how long it would take him to become addicted. Thank you for any help you can give me! As a side note I have read many of the postings at this site and I think everyone who answers these questions are true saints, thank you for being here for those in need.
44 Responses
Avatar universal
Hello, Some of your questions are difficult to answear without some background, but I'll give you some absolute's that may be helpful. Toxidity from tylonol for someone that size is I believe around 4000 to 5000 mg. But that is just an approx/and is of course subject to genetic's. Everyone is different.As far as him taking that fairly high amount is really playing with fire! I never had an adiction to Anything and I used one thing or another for 30yrs.But narcotics are way different. I couln't put it down and ended up in Detox.I'm clean now but Now I've got this The rest of my life. I love the high also but If he has access to it and continues his "recreational use" It WILL accelrate and He almost certainly Get hooked! ITs just a queation of simple math. You need more and more to get the same effect. Plus  90 percent of Heroin users started the same way. When it reaches a certain level, It just takes over your life! All you do is wait to get High and nothing else matters! These thing I say are now theroies, Thay are Facts. Tell your friend to save himself alot of hell down the road and leave it alone. Hope I have helped somehow.   Shane
Avatar universal
shane's 100 percent correct about the fast progression into full-on addiction. And then, Simpsonfan, after that happens, you're no longer even in the same universe. You're obsessed with whether you're coming down or going up. It's a simple life, emotionally. It's the behavioral and logistical misadventures (and the law and the cops and jail) that have made 30 uninterruped years of pharmaceutical narcotics addiction such complete bliss for myself and all concerned.

I would add to shane's warnings by, first, confirming that you're talking hydrocodone (which comes in 5 mg to 10 mg doses). Second, your friend is drinking on top of tylenol, which can and has been deadly. Frankly, anyone, knowing what we know now, who would wash down Vicodin with whisky or whatever is frankly crazy/suicidal, or already hooked like a fish. Sorry not to be more encouraging.
Avatar universal
You'd better tell your friend he's purchasing a quick ticket to rehab, and possibly a lifetime of being stuck in the stranglehold of addiction. Have him read this board, and see how easy it is to get hooked on narcotics-and how impossible it can be to stop. I wonder how much fun he will be having when he runs out one day, and finds himself shaking in bed-freezing cold, getting up every ten minutes so his bowels can explode, crying and praying for death.
I wonder if he would like to spend the next several years of his life not enjoying it, but in a numb, blurry eyed stupor that calls you back now matter how much you loathe it.
I'm not messing around. If I can spare one person the life robbing slow death that narcotic addiction causes, then I won't feel guilty for being so harsh today.
I am a 26 year old housewife. My son turned two today, but my mind was on my own self-loathing. I have been diagnosed with fibromyalgia-a debilitating pain condition that has given me legal rights to Narcotics. I take 6 or 7 Vicoprofen 7.5 a day. I remember two years ago when I could take 3 a day and get so blazing high and have such complete pain relief that I thought God personally came to deliver me sanctuary. Now I have to take over twice that, and I'm completely dependent. I'm more sick now than I was with just the illness.  The pain re;lief is mediocre at best. There is no high left-that disappeared long ago.My head is in a fog. I've tried numerous times to stop, but the withdrawals send me reeling. I, too experimented with drugs as a teenager, but never ended up like this. And I never used this recreationally like your pal. It would seem to me that he is living with an adolescent superman complex. I mean, is this guy also screwing strangers without wearing a condom? Does he drive 20 miles over the speed limit and not wear a seatbelt? Does he play "chicken" with trains?
Do you see where I am going?
It is a pointless-POINTLESS-risk. The fun stops fast, and after that...well, read the posts here on this site.
Good luck,
Pixie
Avatar universal
I have not been very active here, lately, and have no other way to let you know, that I am thinking about you.  I have popped in  and out here, and noticed you haven't been around.  I hope your ok.  Just letting you know, I am think about you.  Hope all is well.

Pixie.....by the way, great post!
Avatar universal
...thinking(above sp?) about you, that is. LOL
Avatar universal
All i can say is your friend is 'playing with the devil'.
If he thinks he is having 'fun', just wait because soon he will feel as though he is in 'hell', believe me!!!!!
Narcotics are like no other drug, and you can 'just play around with them' because they won't let you.  If you take too many steps forward, it will grab hold of you and NOT LET GO!!!!  He'll have to fight with all his might to break the hold, that that is extremely hard once the hold is good and tight!  Thing is, it happens before you realize.  It's like quicksand, once your caught, you're stuck!
Please warn your friend about the dangers (although i doubt he'll believe you).  Have him read this board, that should put a damper on his 'fun' I hope!!!
Good luck!
Jenny
Avatar universal
I made a mistake with the amount he was taking he usually takes like 20 milligrams of hydrocone, and 10 when drinking. If he only does this for like a few months a couple times a month does he really at such risk for addiction? I am worried but at the same time I don't want to play mommy and tell him drugs are bad when, at least from the little i know of them, it doesn't seem like he is at risk right now? I know that this is how it starts and the usage could become more frequent and the dosage would go up, but if this level of usage (1 hydro when drinking 2 while not a couple times a month) lasts for only a few months is it really that big of a danger? I just want to know when to step in, because me stepping in when he's not doing it that much won't have the same impact if I step in when he is doing it like 10 times a month taking 5 pills each time, you know? Plus with my group of friends we usually go through periods of having a favorite drug for a few months then we stop use completely and return to drinking or maybe smoking a little pot occassionally, and then never return to the "favorite" drug again. For example for a while we did mushrooms for a few months a couple years ago and haven't done them since. I know these aren't addicted but I hope you are seeing what I'm trying to say. I'm wondering when to step in because right now it seems if I step in it will have no impact. Sorry for such a long note my words seem jumbled and im not sure my point is coming across, hope it is :) Thanks for your help so far and thanks in advance for any more replies.
Avatar universal
No addict starts with 20 a day, you know what I mean?
Ask anybody that ended up in trouble, and they'll tell you that it all began with just a few here and there.
Your friend will probably respond poorly to your concerns. Especially considering the apparent casual attitude about drug use you guys have.
I'm not a puritain. I don't think you need to stop everything right now, run to church, and pray for your wicked doomed souls. :)
But don't let narcotics be a part of your recreation. They are a different breed of drug, and their reputation came from somewhere.
Maybe you could just tell your pal that you don't want to be caught with him if he's using narcotics or has them in his posession-what with the huge crackdown due to all the media hype surrounding prescription drug abuse. Just tell him you don't want that kind of trouble, and neither does he.
P
Avatar universal
I just popped in here today myself and was delighted that you were thinking of me!   I haven't even turned this computer on for a week because I've just been too busy.  I've got thirteen acres here to mow and maintain, if that tells you anyting?  

Healthwise, I do the best that I can.  Advanced liver disease makes life a bit difficult to say the least.  I hope that you are doing okay these days.  This may sound funny but I think about you, Brighty, Cindi, Tom and even Spook all the time!  J.B.
Avatar universal
Hey My friend.... Gosh, how funny this is,,,,I was just thinking about you today...have not seen those ol initials on here in awhile..wondering how you and Marty are doing...and Marty so very close to Mother's day..God, this is going to be hard...I can only imagine how difficult for her it is...please. my love to the both of you and have the best weekend possible...wow 13 acres.....and I ***** about the front and backyard grass.  LOL speaking of...I think I'll save my husband tonight and go out the mow the lawn my self....love your friend    cindi
Avatar universal
Next weekend may be hard for you as well.  I'll really be pulling for you.  Tears come so easily anymore but at least I can say they are an honest emotion for me.  Does the pain of loss ever really leave us?  It's so hard to be a human being but at least we are all in this together!  You have brightened my day considerably!  J.B.
Avatar universal
well, today is here, and I cannot wait for it to end..only for something else to come along....I will not dwell on my own feeling today because there are so many other people suffering on this day as well as myself...Please, tell Marty my thoughts are with her...as well as my prayers         love cin
Avatar universal
Hello everyone,
  I am new here, this is my first post.  I have been overwhelmed by the endearing honesty and support found in these pages.  It is comforting to know that there are people out there who care about the problem of painkillers.  I, myself am not an addict.  My mother has been the addict for the last ten years.  She has been in detox twice, suffered numerous withdrawal problems and torn our family apart.  After all of this, she is now going back to the pills that brought her to this point in the first place.  My main questions focus on the physical aspects of long time narcotic usage?  I am attempting to get some widespread coverage about this problem in the hopes that I can prevent someone else from a devestating experience with drugs.  Please post any comment you have so that I can learn as much as possible.
Thank you for listening,
Shannon
Avatar universal
Pixie,

Everything you post touches me so deeply.  I relate to everything you say.  You have a real gift for language!  I just wanted to say that I understand that brain fog.  I call it "the blanket over my brain".  I've had no narcotics for days now and today I have pain.  I too wasn't getting a buzz off my meds nor was I really getting pain relief - It was just making me not care as much.  It's warm outside today - yet I am wearing fleece- freezing and sweating.  Not sure why I mentioned that.  Pixie, do something nice for yourself today. You deserve it.  Make a cup of tea and relax for 5 minutes just knowing you are a good loving person.  You help me tremendously and I just wanted you to know that.  

Shannon,
I could have been your mom. Although I am a chronic pain patient and didn't choose the life of pills, I ended up there.  I've never been to rehab.  I just stopped cold turkey after about 10 or more years of chronic narcotic use.  I know what I've done to my kids.  I know I was present in body absent in spirit.  I know they resent me to some degree for not being there emotionally for them because I was wrapped up in my own cycle of pain and pills.  Mostly Pills.  
Long term narcotic usage robbed me of my emotions.  Disallowed me to feel.  Going through the motions of life - everything an excuse to take another pill.  The love I have for my kids is pure and I know I would die for them if I had to.  They are all teens now and the pills have robbed them too.  
Tears come easy now - I'm starting to feel again.  
My battle isn't won, it's just started.  I pray I can beat this and really live again.  I can only imagine how your mom feels.
I've been reading this board for ages and ages and only began posting when I made the decision to stop my meds.  The people here are the most loving and compassionate people in the world.
If anyone can give you the answers to your questions - these guys can.  
Love,
Deja
Avatar universal
Thank You for giving me another perspective to think upon.  Sometimes it helps one through to look at things from another perspective.  I do understand how your kids feel.  If it makes you feel any better, I am sure they love you as much as I love my mother..  I think the real problem lies in that the children feel that their parents are choosing the drug over them.  This can bring a sense of rejection that is hard to overcome.  The hardest point in my life was when I had to face my mother during detox and then sober.  It was so different.  She wanted the control of her family back and I was not going to give it to her.  I felt that I had raised my little sister and took care of my father.  Who was she to come back and suddenly want everything back to normal?  Not only that, but when she went back to the pills, we were left in the same vicious cycle.  I feel that it is important to say that I only blame my mother to a minute point.  I am aware that she makes the choice to go back to the pills and that to her the pain is very real.  But I can not justify these doctors that immediately prescribe pain pills for the slightest pain.  My family calls them "DOCS IN THE BOX".  You can go to any hole in the wall clinic and come out with whatever you want.  I know that the doctors feel that they are helping their patients, but the destruction is far worse.
Well, I have sounded off enough today, I go from utter embarrassment and shame to guilt and anger.  I hope eventually these sharp emotions will smoothe out.  I know they will and thank you to all of you who are helping by allowing this forum to exist.
God Bless,
Shannon
Avatar universal
I read your comment about how much of what you are taking and couldn't beleive it!  The pain you have is chronic, so why are you taking Vicoprofen?  The medication is contra-indicated in use in chronic pain.  Your MD should know this.  If he doesn't, he has no business prescribing narcotics in the first place!  A good reason why some people who become addicted is because they are prescibed the wrong medication in the first place.  Vicoprofen should be used for breakthrough pain in a chronic pain situation.  A longer acting opioid should be used in your situation.....i'm not going to list them, but there are quite a few available.  I'm currently taking Duragesic 75 for two failed back fusions.  I was taking Vicoprofen before that and it was a joke...I only take them for breakthrough now...the duragesic works good....no gi symptoms anymore.....one steady level of narcotic in your system instead of the peaks and valleys associated with short acting opioid/apap.  I feel for you, but your MD is not helping you at all.
Avatar universal
I take Fioricet w/ Codeine to battle migraines. IT IS SO, SO ADDICTIVE. I get a headache and the next thing I know, I'm popping pills until my prescription bottle is empty a few days later.
     Then I tell myself, "Okay, next headache, just take enough to get rid of the migraine."
     Do you know how many times I've told myself that, only to pop pill after pill, even though my headache is gone?
     What a nightmare. As most of you know from experience, painkillers hold us hostage (I've taken Vicodin and Ultram in the past) from the withdrawals to wishing the days away until the next refill.
     To anyone who thinks they can pop pills just on the weekends, you're in for a horrible surprise. Take it from me, don't ruin your life. The agony outweighs the pleasure of opiates!!!
     I'm 38. After four years of hell, I'm finally getting my life in order, but I realize I'll be spending the rest of my life, trying to stay clean. It's going to take every ounce of strength in my body.
     Warn your friend! Good luck.
Avatar universal
cboy -- I had to respond to your post because Fioricet is my personal "demon" also. I hardly drink, rarely touch weed, and never got hooked on any other rx -- but Fioricet is a whole other matter!
I'd love to know why you personally feel it is so attractive/addictive. For me, its pleasures didn't kick in until one morning on an empty stomach I took two (for a headache) with Valium (prescribed for an anxiety disorder). I can only describe the feeling the ensued as sheer bliss. I guess I've been chasing that particular "dragon" ever since.
I'm particularly interested to know what kinds of withdrawal symptoms you've experienced when you run out, how much you take, do you combine it with other meds, etc. Maybe we can offer each other advice to reduce potential harm from this drug. I have tried other drugs that work pretty well on migraines, so you may be interested in some of those (non-addictive). BTW, I'm 38 also!
Everyone -- I finally got up the nerve to register & post because I'm impressed (overwhelmed) by what caring, sensitive people you are. I hope I can be of help also.
Avatar universal
Welcome aboard! We ALL have SOMETHING in common here. I'm sure you both will have much to offer. Milo, one thing I know about is chasing the "Dragon". Been doing it for years. Once you have committed to stopping, you will get all the support in the world here.  I had an old saying that i'd tell people who would warn me about the "Dragon". I'd say: "You can only be addicted if you can't get anymore". What a load that was LOL. It was funny then, it's NOT SO FUNNY NOW. Looking back at all the wasted opportunities. cboy, you are right, you can't get away for long with just the weekends.......I'm close to a month clean now after over 30 years of many kinds of drugs. The last 10 were rx opiates. I feel better now then I have in what seems like for ever. Got my life and my faith back. Be focused and strive for that light!
In my prayers,
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard
Avatar universal
Wizard, thanks for replying. Your story is one of the most encouraging on the forum. If only I could be as positive and level-headed as you are in your posts! Depression has had me in its stranglehold for so long now. But it feels good to know there's somewhere I can turn to share experiences with thoughtful, caring people.
Thanks. Milo
Avatar universal
Milo, I got to tell you I wasn't always positive and I'm not so sure how level headed I am (but thanks for the compliment)but depressed was a daily thing for me. I was taking a lot of hydro and oxy for pain but it seemed to work for the depression also. Tha I found out was a dream for me.I found I was depressed because I was withdrawing and didn't know it. It was the built up tolerance level of the drugs. I just couldn't ake enough.The pain was actually secondary to me. It was the high and euphoria I was chasing. Once I detoxed, after the 1st week, I found that my chronic pain was actually tolerable with none opiate measures. The depression lifted mostly too. Now, I DO have my moments when the "Dragon" whispers for sure. But along with my faith in God and the support of everyone here and at home I keep that ******* at bay. I still have my moments but they are so much easier to handle now that the initial withdrawels are over. The big fight is on now for the rest of my life to STAY off the "dragon". But hey, even if relapse happens, I will try and try again to fight it. This isn't the 1st time I've gone clean, but it is the first time I've REALLY been committed and been HONEST with myself and my wife about it. For me that is what is gonna make the difference. Depression is a very REAL thing and can be caused by many different factors. Getting to the root of it is imperative for your well being. If it's a chemical imbalance that can be treated by a good doctor. I think mine was self induced. So far so good with me. When I get weak I RUN to this board or talk to my wife. The important thing for me is to stay busy. When I do the "Dragon" whispers go away. I will pray for you as I do for me and the others. Good luck and stay focused. You've made the first step by posting. Keep us informed and lean on us when the need arises. There are wonderful "angels" here like Thomas, Cindy, Angelica, Jay Jay, Deja, JennyFla and please forgive me anyone I left out but you know who you are! The Wiz's mind isn't the steel trap it used to be LOL. Anyway, Bless you and may peace be on ya,
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard
Avatar universal
i have just discovered this site. i have been reading some of the comments about addiction. i am not sure, but i think i may be an addict. i have been taking darvocet for about twenty years. i never take over three a day. i also never miss a day taking them. i think i need help.
Avatar universal
Thanks again, and feel free to lean on me (whether it's questions or simply venting)...I do admire your commitment to withdrawal and sobriety -- and your caring for others. Like I said, you're an inspiration to us all (and I can accept that "inspirational people" have their good days & bad days like everone...)
A quick rundown: diagnosed by multiple doctors with severe anxiety disorder, I've been on benzo's on and off (mostly on) for about 15 years --- Valium, Dalmane, Xanaz, you name it. I don't abuse them, and my Dr. & I see no reason to discontinue, but I feel guilty for taking them! I also take Zoloft for OCD & depression (works better for OCD than for depression), and the deomon Fioricet. Have you ever taken this? The worst parts are amnesia (will I remember that I wrote this?) and *extreme* anxiety upon discontinuing. Other than tapering, do you or anyone else have suggestions for minimizing the anxiety?
After reading through this forum, all I can say is *Thank God* I have never become adicted to opiates. What hell that must be. Power & Magick back 2 ya, Milo
Avatar universal
hi  
here is my story ,just like every body body else i have abused the hydros for years off and on .i take 15 to 18 tablets of vicoden es or lortab  .i withdrawed many times and every time it
get scarier for me .right now i am going on my 48 hours and i dont really feel that bad .i have been preparing for this all week i sent my wife to her mother for 4 days along with my kids .
i have acess to the hydrocone very easily but this time i am getting off for good ,all i have to do is go to the pharmacy to get a refill but i am not going to .i have been taking the tyrosine 4000 mg and 200 mg b6 in the morning plus i have lomotil
for the runs it works great ,also for sleep at night i have valiums and xanax .i am doing really good comparing to what i have seen on this form .the only thing that is bother me is my elbows at night they hurt and twitch .i also have b complex injections made in mexico and phentrine 30 mg i take one a day for the energy it is working very good i feel almost normal ,i am alittle lazy but i can function enough to do my daily tasks .now i have tried withdrawing with out all this it is hell ......i wish every body luck and keepthe faith i have done it and if you put it in your mind you can do it too god bless you
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