Please Help! Sick from Subutex?

[Sithtiger]

First of all I'm not sure I'm posting in the right area but here goes anyway. Ok, so I'm taking Subutex for depression.  I know it's used for getting people off drugs like Heroin or Oxy's but it can work for depression in some people.  At any rate, I take 2mg (one tablet) a day.  I don't abuse it.  Well to go back a bit, I was first taking Suboxone.  I originally took 4mg a day (two tablets) and I started having weird breathing problems..... especially at night.  So I went down to one tab a day.  It was fine for a month or two and the same thing started happening.  So I went down to a half a tab.  Eventually after another month or so the same thing happened and then something really weird happened.  I took it as I always do and I got sick....I mean really sick!  I got VERY nauseous and it lasted all day and I finally threw up.  I thought it was something else so the next day I took it and it was worse....much worse.  I felt like I was going to die.  So I stopped and even then it took about 3 days before I started feeling better again.

Ok, I thought maybe it's the Naloxone or whatever it's called that's doing this.  So I asked for Subutex instead.  Keep in mind, I haven't been abusing it at all!  So I've been taking Subutex for about 3 to 4 weeks now and last night I had the weird breathing problems.  The breathing problem feels like my body just stops breathing and I have to manually take a breath myself.  This lasts all night and sometimes in the day if I try to sleep.  I just start gasping for air all of sudden.  It's very frightening and I don't understand why.  At any rate if I don't take it, I can breath Ok after the first or second day being off of it.  So, now, back to last night....had the breathing problem again and then I took it today and I went to the gym and when I left I started feeling slightly nauseous.....nothing major, but by the time I was going home, I thought I was going to hurl.  I took Omeprazole, it's used for lowering the acid in your stomach and it generally makes your stomach feel better.

So, back to my question.....can Subutex make you sick like this.  I mean I know Suboxone does and I don't understand either but I don't get this?  I did have a bad addiction to Vicodin about 3 years ago.  At one point I was taking 100 of the lowest dosage....5 something a day.  So last year I had a kidney stone and I was prescribed Vicodin.  Of course I started abusing it but something weird happened.  I started having trouble breathing...during the day and the night.  Anyway I stopped and then after a few months started with the Suboxone.

Has my body just changed and won't stand ANY opiod based drug.  Even though Suboxone or Subutex doesn't make you high (I've heard that if you shoot it or snort it it will, but I don't do that) but it makes me feel good.....feel normal.  I so much don't want to stop taking it.  It's easy for me to stop taking it.  The withdrawal symptoms from stopping aren't that bad at all and only seem to last a couple days....very light...just light sweats for a day or two and that's it.  So it's not like I'm addicted.  Because of the problems I've experienced with both I've started and stopped a few times and I don't worry about the w/d's.

Is there anyone out there that can tell me WHY I'm getting sick like this.  I mean, I'm not taking any other opiods and I'm also taking Welbutrin XL and Lamictal.  These are new.  Even when I was taking the Suboxone, I wasn't taking anything at all except that to make sure it was nothing else.  I just don't understand it.  If I'm allergic to Suboxone and Subutex, then why doesn't it make me feel like right away?

I'm just scared to go off because I don't want to be depressed.  I should note that when taking it, I still get a little depressed, but it's totally manageable.  Please Help!

[Oxy480Jim]

Good point.  When you first become aware of it, sleep apnea presents itself the same way, I have it. I didn't notice it most of the time, but my wife says I stopped breathing completely for a minute or so.
I'd wake up sometimes with that heavy chest feeling, like the fat cat of mine was curled up on my chest and I would feel short of air for the first few mins.

I have a CPAP machine now, and after all the sleep study tests and whatnot getting it tuned for my needs,  when I sleep it's actually a restful sleep. No more waking up more tired than I was before going to sleep, even if I do only get 4-5 hours sleep.

[Oxy480Jim]

The short answer is YES!

Adverse events commonly observed with the Buprenorphine  are oral hypoesthesia,(numbness of the tongue, droolling) glossodynia,(swollen discolored tongue) oral mucosal erythema,(redness and round lesions) headache, nausea, vomiting, hyperhidrosis (excessive sweating), constipation, signs and symptoms of withdrawal, insomnia, pain, and peripheral edema.(swelling, especially around the lower limbs)

Buprenorphine, in combination with benzodiazepines or other CNS depressants (including alcohol), has been associated with significant respiratory depression and death.

you may have a hypersensitivity to this stuff, or all opiates considering you've had this problem with vicodin as well.

I'd quit taking it and see a Doc immediately.

Buprenorphine  isn't  recommended for treating depression anyway, nor is it recommended for treating pain. I wouldn't take ANY opiate for depression, because one way or another, it will  cause  it eventually.

If you thought getting of vicodin was uncomfortable, it's nothing compared to Sub withdrawal. This is a strong opiate, much stronger than vicodin. It's not just the withdrawals when you first stop it, it's the PAWS afterwards, which can last for many months, even a year. The longer you take it, the more you guarantee that you will have to go through PAWS.

[yllwjcket]

when i first started taking opiates i remember thinking "omg why arent they using this to treat depression?!"  a few years later it is obvious why.  sub's are very potent, if your dose is too high you can have alot of strange mental effects, odd dreaming, hallucinations, respiratory depression is a given with high doses of any opiate.  if your dr is giving you this, then maybe its time to see a new dr.  if your getting it off the street, you have got to stop.

[atthebeach]

your doctor could recommend a respiratory or pulmonary doctor. you should go for a sleep study. you will be monitored through the nite at a sleep center.

[vicki595]

It sounds like sleep apnea to me,as well...

Sithtiger:  I consider HenryS354 the guru of anything subutex/suboxone...

Opiate therapy is becoming all the rage for depression these days and I'm not used to it yet!   So much of what you say is a concern. Playing with your dosages on your own is a concern to me.  I think you need to bring all of this up to your prescribing physician so he can work it out with you. It is a large dose...

Now,here's what inquiring minds want to know:  Has it helped the depression?

[atthebeach]

do you snore? with sleep apnea, you are breathing and then gasp for air because there is an obstruction, the tissue in your mouth and throat relax and causes obstruction. i know this because my husband "had it". when he stopped using opiods,benzos and lost weight sleep apnea is gone.