When you say pain, do you mean headache pain or withdrawal-related pain?
When you say your neurologist is going to put you through detox, do you mean a gradual tapering of your meds or cold turkey?
One thought, if you are habituated to both Vics (an opiate) and Klonopin (a benzodiazepine), I don't care what "detox' meds they give you, you shouldn't be forced to detox from both meds at the same time. That is more than anyone should have to bear.
The current wisdom says to first detox from the opiate. Then, after a period of stability, SLOWLY detox from the benzo over several months. Klonopin withdrawal will last many times longer than Vicodin withdrawal.
Here's the best site on the 'net for information, guidance and personal contacts for benzo addiction (Valium, Klonopin, Librium, Xanax, Ativan, Serax, etc.):
go to this site and access the papers written by Dr. Heather Ashton, a leading authority on benzo withdrawal.
Based on Dr. Ashton's papers, I think your doc should switch you to Valium first, then slowly taper the Valium. While Klonopin lasts a comparatively long time in the body, Valium can last up to several times longer, meaning as you're tapering, Valium leaves your system more gradually, giving your brain a better chance to adjust.
Valium saved my ass after I developed a Xanax addiction. I wound up printing Dr. Ashton's material with the pertinent sections highlighted and taking it to my doctor. Luckily, my doc was (is) a bright but modest man open to suggestions from his patients. Many MD's, especially specialists, seem to have monumental egos and don't consider what their patients say. Stand up for your rights as a patient. Demand competent, compassionate treatment. You haven't done anything wrong and shouldn't be made to suffer needlessly. Becoming addicted to your meds is not a crime.
I'm sorry to hijack this post but our Fiorinal thread is full, I'm in w/d hell & need to write my friend!
Your msg made my day & you were my inspiration when I decided to go for it. You've always said you weren't a taper kind of gal ;-) & I could totally relate. No matter how hard I try it's hopeless. I tapered with valium & other drugs & it was a pc, of cake but F! Kat, this stuff scares the hell out of me. While I've been addicted to other drugs, once what I was taking them for was gone, I could just withdraw, go off & never think about them again.
I've even had dreams about F! HOW SICK IS THAT????
I'm just too exhausted from this drug. As I've been tapering further down, my meds only last 2-3 days max. I often don't have them when I need them for h/a which means to me the whole sit'n is totally out of control. I'm so tired of waiting for refills, trying to manipulate more (I'm ashamed at how good I am) almost planning my work, social life for when I have it...
Kat, I'm just a sick puppy! JR, Golden & you are so responsible & I'm taking them for all the wrong reasons. And of course I need more all the time to deal with my h/a. I remember when one would relieve them & now if a doozie is coming on (you know how you just know those & if you don't drown it in F ASAP, you're toast?) I might need 3 to get the same effect. Tolerance. And I'm not "stoned" on 3. Actually, just fine & very functional.
This last wk. I had 35 from Sun.to Wed. & she'd advanced me some early because my p/up day is Tues. Thur. she gave me 10 as I assured her I'd take 2 a day to prevent seizures. I meant it too. I got home, took 2 & went to my desk & I was trying to write & all I could think of was that F...like a siren song. Next thing I had 1 more & by 7 they were all gone. I seem to have lost the capacity to think of tomorrow.
I'm not doing too bad today. You get SO sick & I don't. I was very nauseous yesterday/last nt. but I was hungry by midnite & had some popcorn! I'm disoriented & my head is hurting - about a 7. I'm just taking excedin. I could get OTC codeine but don't want to go down that road again. It took 6 wks. to get over those rebound h/a's! I think I'm going to just write here this wknd & maybe watch TV. My sis gave me the movie, "Bridget Jones" & ppl have always said I'd love it so I may watch that later.
Kat, we need to do a si com! This life is madness, isn't it? Do you know what I mean by being exhausted? I realized how much of my grey matter was expended on thinking about F, thinking about getting F, thinking about quitting F...I'm talking all consuming. No wonder I haven't written a book. I hardly have time to think about men because F has been so foremost in my thoughts.
I was confused by your last paagr. in your msg. Did you say you quit again & whatever for? Or, you meant when you quit c/t?
Write me hun. Day 2 & I am going to hang in there, 1 day at a time.
Oh and when I said pharmacyshop, I meant going to different pharmacies with scripts from different doctors.That's how one of my co-workers was busted. Four different doctors prescribing Oxycontin and going to 4 different pharmacies.
you should write back , im shure someone will help you. best of luck.
Judy - I feel so bad for you and have been thinking about you all day! Of course, you don't understand the post below because I just reread it and it DOES sound like I quit again. I was referring when I last went CT approx. 5 wks. ago tomorrow. I have been able to live with them responsibly, but it takes every molecule in my body to not to abuse them. In fact, just Thursday I DID abuse them - took 6 throughout a 12 hr. period because it was a baaaaaadddd day at the office with a major pain in the ass co-worker.
You said you're so sick - but you're not vomiting, so what do you mean? What symptoms are you having? Maybe your neurontin is really keeping you from going over the edge! Are you feeling anxiety, shaking, trembling, etc? How about dizziness and lightheaded and stumbling all over the place? You stomach will feel like it's going to bring up lunch and you'll have sweats, too. But, that's really sporadic and will go away. It's the headache! UN - F -INGBELIEVABLE!! Excedrin does help take the edge off. See if you can get some valium, too.
Will talk later and post on the other one too. I hate to hijack this thread - I know ours is full. Take it easy and take a nice hot bath with Epsom salts (your idea) and chill out! Luv ya, babe, Kat
Judy, Wuldntya know it.. get a good F thread goin' and the frickin' thing is closed, maxxed comments. Grrrrr. Just like my body/mind.. Maxxed. I am "coming off" a variety of drugs: Vikes, Fs, and maybe Xanax.
DOC (drug/choice for me) are narcotics, and I am not sure Fs count there. Do they? Are they narcs? I definetely prefer the Fs w/ codeine. Mine are F w/ codeine. I have had a fairly limitless supply for many years. By limitless, I s'pose I mean, when I ask for a refill, I get one.
However, after the haze of a few thou Vikes, a swig of Tequila and a cupla Xanax, then that take that MO-FO migraine headache away ASAP, and thus I seldom use the Fs.
That aside, and tho u, Joods, must feel like **** (as I), cuz if I recall, u r CTWD longer than I (mine will be 48 hrs at 4 AM, (a mere 12 hrs frm. now), so I appreciate yr concern for my (abnormal, I hope) paranoia about the DEA.
My dilemma/concern is this. I use maybe 3 docs for the same 3 meds: VikesES, Fs w/ codeine, Xanax .5.
I use 2 pharmacies. One has my insurance info, the one where I got my major haul ( 60 Fs, 90 Vikes ES, 90 Xanax .5/ all monthly)
And, at the other Mom & Pop pharmacy, I paid ca$h ( 30 Fs, 60 VikesES, 60 Xanax .5/ all monthly too)
Meanwhile, I periodically scored a few Vikes or sedatives for various broken limbs, teeth probs (Man, those narcs literally SCREW teeth,, talk about Gum Surgery.. OMG,, major moooola!). And the I have gotten random dope for foot problems.. yada yada.. Where I always used the Mom/Pop ca$h pharmacy for the 'x-tras)
So, my point/worry is this.. tho I am trying very fricking hard to stay on the dayum wagon, I have discovered a healthy supply of Vikes, Xanax, and Fiorinal in the mansion here (make that a hovel)
Regardless, I am afraid that if the runs (err, diarrhea, pain, hassle, avoidance of peeps/places/things.. gets too high.. I will be right back to the pharmacy/doc playing game.)
So now, on top of trying to quit, I have nitemares of the DEA coming after me Biggy Time!
It matters not that I am seriously trying to quit, the paranoia will NOT dissipate.
That aside, I made the acquaintance of, for lack of a better word, shall I call him an Internet Stalker, who at regular intervals has mailed me (here in the US) quite a few "cocadamol" (sp).. legal in the UK.. but fulla codeine.. Similar to the codeine to which u say is legal in Canada, Judy.
So, what I am saying here, or trying to.. in my ENTJ state (see Meyer's Brigg's Personality test.. do a search online) is that I'm frickin flipping out!
One pharmacy (the main haul) has a picture ID, as required, with a DL# Pic ID.. and insurance info.
The OTHER (Mom & Pop pharmacy, the LESS THAN main haul pharmacy, has a "Picture ID# (NOT A DL), but NO insurance info. (also no "official pic ID".. just a pic of me and where I work)
So, in a nutshell, am I safe? Am I gonna be busted? Does the DEA want to bust a skinny old drug addict as I, especially one trying to clean up her act?
I said today that even a dinner w/ wine couldnt take my mind off this miserable CTWD weekend Detox, but word has it there is an oyster roast to benefit the shrimpers, so here on a barrier island, I must do what I can to help the economy and slob up several thosand mollusk shellfish, like any good sLowCountry Southerner.
That aside, I thank you Judy, and know that you r a vvvvv special person, indeed, to care about my concerns when you must be feeling like the utter piece of **** as I do.
Regards for a better weekend ahead. We can do this?????
Love,(and I don't use tht word litely).
Rode WC ~
e-mail at ***@**** if anyone can liten my load, esp the paranoia load.
Happy weekend all.. The puppy and cats remain my joys.~~
Sorry for the jumpiness of this post.. MUST be the dang (FORMER??) drugs,, If anyone can follow this, I NEEEED YOU!
Hey rodewc! My name is Kat and a friend of Judy's - and fellow fiorinal addict. Can't post too long because I have to run, but about the DEA: here's how it works. If you obtain ANY narcotic from ANY pharmacy, there is a form they give to DEA on a regular basis - maybe monthly. It doesn't matter if you use your insurance or not. If you doctorshop (like I've done) and/or pharmacyshop (ditto), that is a crime and you can get arrested right there in the pharmacy as you're picking up your meds. I thought that by using mom & pop places and saying I had no insurance I was safe. NOT!!!!! They still have to abide by the drug rules, too and submit the info to the proper channels. Now, I'm sure as with any other business, there are some that don't report or are very lax. I think the big pharmacy franchises do comply quite well. There was girl I used to work with addicted to vics and oxycontin who doc shopped and even went out of state and after 7 yrs. got caught! With computers they found out everywhere she went and it was a mess. Since she had ligitimate pain (for tylenol or advil) she was given 5 yrs. probation. If a pharmacist suspects anything, they can create all kinds of trouble, too. By the way fiorinal (our drug of choice) without codeine is a controlled substance, but NOT a narcotic. Nevertheless, it's a Schedule 3 I think - yea, I'm pretty sure. Hope you don't get arrested and get through your CT safely. I think if anyone up above is watching HE should give you some credit for trying to quit and going CT and not get you busted. I also know for a fact that the DEA is so horrendously busy, they probably don't even know who the hell you are anyway!!!! Kat
How you doing my friend?Havent heard from you in ages!!You eat any good twinkies lately??Or seen any holes in the yard?Just wondering how your doing buddy!Your friend till the end!!Jerri
Hee Hee.. Now, that IS paranoia.. Had to laff tween runs to the bathroom .. to be punny
Nah, I dont live in FL, but on a barrier island, resort, off Southern US coast..
Wish I culd say I was rich, retired and livin in luxury, but I am an old fart who lucked into nice weather, golf and *******, err beaches~
Hey JR (Freddie) - I want you to clarify something for me: I still use 2 different pharmacies, BUT with 1 doctor only. The trouble is that at one place they may not have the generic in stock or I don't care for capsules, so I go to the other one. How could that be considered a crime? I do it for my husband's blood pressure meds, etc. Are you referring to using 2 different doctors and several pharmacies so one doesn't know about the other? I stopped doctorshopping a loooonnnnggg time ago because of my co-worker who got busted. Let me know. Kat
Thanks for your concern guys. I just returned from the pharmacy, having begged for 2 F Plain. My hands were trembling, head pounding, I was wobbly, disoriented...my god! Not to be helped by not sleeping a wink last nt.
I'm disappointed but not surprised. I have to admit I was worried about coming thru the detox fine only to still have my headaches to deal with.
I just took them & am a tad weak so I'll write later.
I didn't even make it 3 full days. Rather scary physical symptoms, really. Only slight nausea tho, Kat! Can't do that...This drug is a monster.
I'll write later...have a good day. Think I'll watch dumb TV.
a lot of that shakiness goes with benzo WD, too. The last (final, hopefully) half-dozen times I picked up Valium, I had a way-too observant pharmacist who seemed anxious to drop a dime on me. I'd park by the pharmacy and slowly write everything on the check but the amount, just so this a-hole wouldn't see me shaking.