Question about my posts

[GA Guy]

As many here may know..I'm lazy..and got tired of typing the same stuff to new people every day (although I would in a minute if I had to). Therefore, I wrote part of a cold turkey how to article and mended it with the Thomas Recipe. I have two questions..First, is it annoying or helpful? I know it is long and takes forever to scroll. Should I post it just one day and point to it? Or shorten it? Second question, is there anything that anyone thinks needs to be amended or added? Like, I'd love to put something from beachtowel's musings on the therapy/12 step process (if he'd write me something that I could add and credit him..I don't wanna steal peoples ideas..I'd have asked Thomas his permission to use the Recipe if I knew who he was). Any suggestions and comments will be heard and used. Brutal honesty is encouraged. We will not agree on our methods, but we can lay out all options.

[Bug1964]

I would like to say that when I was new to this forum, I found it immensley helpful that you posted the Thomas recipe......it gave me hope when I was very scared...I think you should keep giving out the recipe, because when you are new here, most people have never heard of it and it does offer hope for  people who don't know where to turn.....As for me, it's very very helpful because I am in the medical field and don't want the doctors to know....because it could mean my job....... So Thsnk you.  Sincerely, June.............Bug 1964

[Savas]

Yowch.Umm, you do know, beachtowel, that everyone's reaction to withdrawal symptoms is different? Some people detox off without a need to for help, others are in awful shape.
   For me, the first methadone detox I did, the initial two week withdrawal sucked, but I was fairly over it (just sat at home two weeks). But after that...

Try to imagine having a bad flu for six months to a year straight. THIS is what usually causes people to fail. The emotional stress of this, with no relief for up to a year, is enough to make anyone to give up. It has nothing to do with "cravings" and "working with or dismissing NA", it's simply a physical reaction. It can CAUSE an emotional reaction. Ie; a desire to be well, eventually, *missing it*.

If a person has no desire to get high, just wants to be *normal*, but can't get the physical treatment to *be normal*, NA won't really help that person (They don't deal well with people who say "I'm not interested in being high, just normal".
So saying it's "just flu like symptoms" is like saying "Oh, it's just Lyme disease". Doesn't seem like a big deal, becuase the person isn't stroking out/bleeding out/frothing at the mouth while having a heart attack.

[GA Guy]

You know I wouldn't think you said anything directed towards my character. I think we know each other a small bit by now. This is why I asked about the post. I'm thinking of just posting it once a day, in it's own post, and then we can write to them whatever we want and point them to the post. Seems like a simple solution. I also think your Sub FAQ aught to be posted at least twice a week. That thing can be hard to find through search...

[FLaddict]

Save the link from the browser and just put that in the post... anyone who needs the info will copy and paste that in their browser... simple as that... or you can bump it to the top when you see lots of new people posting...there are alot of options dear... please don't think what I said above was directed at you or your character.. I know you are not a person that is insincere.. or impersonal.. I just feel like it comes off that way in some posts.. Sometimes someone justs wants you to talk to them about what they posted about.. let them vent, give them a shoulder to lean on for a minute.. They don't always want all that info all at once... Use your judgement.. you worked hard on it.. It should be seen and by many.. I just think there is a right way to go about it..


XOXO
Love ya

[GA Guy]

I have thought about posting it just once a day under a general posting and let people refer to it. I just don't know how much of a trouble that would cause. The last thing I want to do is sound impersonal. I just know that everything in that little post is almost everything I wanted to know about when I first posted here months ago. The last thing I wanna do is inconvenience people. Maybe I can find some way to have it placed on a website and link to it. We'll see...

[FLaddict]

I personaly think the amount that this is posted should be kept to a minimun and used when that info is needed or asked for specifically...Sometimes it comes off as impersonal and unsincere.. In fact there was a person that both you and I posted to that actually said that.. I don't know if you saw it.. Maybe you should link it into a post to a new person and still write a personal message of hope to them as well as giving them the link to the info.. I feel the same way about Fish's 'copy and paste post"  It comes off wrong sometimes.. that is just my opinion of course...

[wait2long]

the name of this facility is step one...in berlin NH

[Zillialee]

I had been reading these posts to plan my tapering/withdrawal plan and basically I would go through and read a lot of other peoples posts that did not really get me anywhere, yours however is the best information, at least for me.  It had a lot of information in it as far as ideas and time frames, etc. I think you should post it on here once a day for people like me that are new to this forum.  I also want to mention to anyone that may be offended by saying yours is the best, everyones posts have helped me, it is just that the phase I'm in right now "Ga Guy" gave me most the information I was looking for and I have a feeling a lot of people may come here in search of that particular information to start out.  If it is posted daily it will be easier for them to find and maybe help more people.  I will let you know though as I start and when I finish my detox if there is anything else that helped me if you want to add some new stuff.  Thank you : )

[wait2long]

i agree with you, i can be used for withdrawals that way...i had done it numerous times too, but just was not ready to give up the percs yet, now i am , and i would have to add that therapy is a must, it has really helped me.

[Addicted2Pain]

First, GaGuy, your posts, along with fish's (he too re-posts the same thing over and over), is fine with me. I know by now to scroll thru it. :)

Now, as far as methadone...I don't know if anyone is posting in regards to my posts on methadone, but just in case they are...

I have never advised anyone to get on a methadone maintenance plan. But all too often, I see posts from newbies who want to quit, but are afraid of the withdrawals. Since I know that if someone will take a single 10 mg methadone pill per day for 3 days max, that their withdrawals will be much more manageable, then I am going to put that option out there. That is not enough to get high, not enough to get addicted, and not enough to experience withdrawals. I know that when I do decide to quit, I will use methadone to get thru the withdrawals. It HAS WORKED FOR ME TOO MANY TIMES FOR ME NOT TO!

[wait2long]

i just wrote this extremely long post answering every question you had...but my pet birds landed on my keyboard and somehow its gone and i have to start over.....kind of sounds like "the dog ate my homework" huh.   oh well here goes AGAIN!!  of course i am offended, i am not defending my addiction...i am defending the way i am getting clean. and you say i am not dealing with my recovery? how am i not dealing with it?  because i am not writhing in pain from withdrawals on the floor as my 3 boys watch!  and dont you dare tell me that my addiction isnt worth posting about because it wasnt what you took!  i did do heroin, for just about a full year!  i was also an alcoholic for almost 5 years..i would drive 3-4 hours every weekend to get my bundle, i decided it was just as much "fun" to get loaded on pills and i didnt have to drive anywhere, so yes you are minimizing my addiction and also my recovery.  there are no other options in this area that i live in for addicts, nothing! but the one i spoke of in last post! and there were no doctors or nurses on board at this place, NONE!!  the lady that called me (the director or who ever she was, i think she was the cleaning lady or housekeeping) told me to come get my friend because they were not equipped to deal with her level of anxiety, she was taking anything and everything, the only legal prescription she had was for klonipin, and she was not allowed to bring it on the premises with her, it was not allowed, now first of all i thought it was extremely dangerous to just suddenly stop benzos?  so no wonder she was anxious, tell me 1 person who wasnt horribly anxious while detoxing?  when i first got the call to go get my friend..i thought it was her giving up..it wasnt, this "facility" or whatever you call it was mainly for alcoholics or people who would go to jail if they didnt enroll at this place...i spoke to the woman that called me (the cleaning lady) when i got there, she said my friend was not dissruptive, was not an ******* and caused no scenes, she had just began to experience some anxiety on the 3rd day, she hadnt even started with withdrawals yet!, with methadone in your system it can take days to feel the effects of withdrawals (for me 5 days), my friend was prepared to stick it out, but they told her to leave because of her anxiety??!! what kind of place is this, i decided then...NOT FOR ME!!!   but i am sure because i am an addict not facing my recovery that you think i am lying or making this up, so i will try to remember the name of the is place so maybe you can check it out for yourself.   they even told her when she did start with WD's, that she would not be allowed to stay in bed for any amount of time, she would be expected to act like there was nothing wrong, go to meetings and write essays with feces running down her leg .  is what one patient told her, sounds like a GREAT place to me !! and i am sure she started using the minute she got home too, because she was an addict trying to get help and getting nowhere fast!!! i would have felt pretty defeated at that point also. now on to the benefits of methadone FOR ME, if i did not take methadone i know i would have probably by now lost my home, lost my husband, lost my boys to the state and anything else possible to lose, and at that point i know for a fact i would have killed myself, i was extremely suicidal with no place to go but down! (death was my only option at this point)...20mgs of methadone daily made it possible to get my **** together enough to get my job back, get caught up on bills, get therapy and prepare for the next step which was getting off methadone, which i again was going to have to do alone, my husband worked 3 hours away from home and was gone from sunday night until friday night, so that left me in charge of taking care of my 3 boys and may i also add my oldest boy is handicapped, so laying in bed for a month waiting for methadone WDs to come to an end was not an option for me, my life was not going to stop so i could be sick andi have no family or trustworthy friends to help and this is where the suboxone comes in. i did quite a bit of reading and research on suboxone before even calling my sub doctor (who by the way is an addiction specialist) i talked to her on the phone for about a month before i made my commitment,  she is about 60 years old, wonderful person and i am quite sure she would be offended by what someone from an addiction forum had to say about her and her career, she has dealt with addicts her whole career, she did admit to me that suboxone was a new drug, and new to her... so i made my commitment with her to continue my therapy, and start on suboxone after stopping methadone for a few days.  do you know what a doctor has to do to be able to prescribe suboxone?  and about methadone i never said it was not a serious drug, it is and i knew alot of people who abused it, and it extremely addictive and hard to kick!!! my sub doctor told me i could stay on it for up to 2 years, it was recommended to me because of my past history of always abusing something, pills, booze, heroin and back to pills...you are not the expert, you are not the one with the degree hanging on your wall to treat addicts. so you have no right to tell me what i am doing is wrong  or not valid and that i am in denial and not facing my recovery or addiction, i know i am an addict, i am not abusing anything and i havent since sept25, 2006, i feel i am doing well and have come a long way since a year ago, and then to have someone imply that all my hard work and effort is meaningless, useless and not valid is nothing short of a kick in the face!  very hurtful i might add!  i started on 32 mgs of sub, i am now down to 10 mgs, so now where is the proof that an addict cant take prescriptions properly, that they will abuse anything they can? and the dose will always increase for an addict (only for those that arent serious about getting clean)!  and my analogy of taking handfuls of advil is not from outerspace at all, taking sub FEELS the same as taking advil, meaning THERE IS NO FEELING FROM IT, THERE IS NO HIGH, THERE IS NOTHING so i dont abuse advil why in the hell would i abuse sub??? do you even know about suboxone? have you ever taken it yourself or seen someone (in person) who takes sub?  obviously not or you would not be accusing people of abusing it, it simply cant be done...look up "ceiling effect" in one of your addiction "manuels".  and you know what, i have recently been diagnosed with fibromyalgia, i could very easily go to that doctor and ask for pain meds. but i dont because being clean is more important to me than not having pain.  alot of people who come to this forum are in a very delicate state of mind and the last thing they need right from the get go is your uncompassionate abrasiveness... it took me a long time to actually post here, i have been reading everyone elses post for months now, and i feel better now that i have people to talk to that understand and give sound advice because they have been there, and know what has worked for them, and you should not be criticizing any one for it.  just about everyone here is here for the same reason... adiction is addiction, and once an addict always an addict.   you are no better or different than the rest of us.   well i think i have answered EVERY question you asked me, if not please let me know.

[serenitysaves]

Here I am......  I'm one of those methadone patients.  I had an active addiction to herion for three years. and am now on methadone which I've been on four six years.

Yes, it is a hell of a drug and a ***** to get off.  Which I'm working on a taper now.  From you're last post to me I got, I know you think I should just go c/t instead of a slow detox but for me this is my path, my road to recovery.

Methadone has helped me sooooooooo much in finding a way to live again.  When in my active addiction I was'nt showing up for my life, I was mearly going through the motion to get what I needed in whatever way I could.  This took me to some very dark, ugly places.  For myself, rehab was'nt enough I needed something eles.  and I feel I was lucky to find methadone.  Which for the last five years I've been taking as precribed by my doctor.  I'm active in N/A, and even though everyone might not like my path of recovery, they are supportive of me.  You seem to be involed with N/A also so you should know....

What is the Narcotics Anonymous Program?  "We are not interested in what or how much you used or who your connections were, what you have done in the past, how much or how little you have, but only in what you want to do about your problem and how we can help."

of course this is only in part, but before you jugde someone because they have'nt used long enough, remember the principles of the program you and I love so much.

take care, Robin

[mom2rachie]

If advil gave us the feeling that pain killers do, we sure as hell would take more than prescribed and that holds true for the blood pressure medication and/or he Subutex (which I was on) or the Suboxone.  People who take more Methadone than prescribed to them do so because they are addicts and because you CAN get high from it.  It's different with Sub.  You really can't get that euphoric feeling unless you are on a really small dose like I was, say, 1 mg a day and even then it was for about 4 seconds.
I think what Beach means in his tough love way, is that if there is a chance to take something that can take an addict out of reality for a little while, they will abuse that something without fail time and time again.
That is why it is so hard getting off methadone.
To me, I didn't see the point in taking a pill to "maintain me".  If I wanted off pills, I was going to use the Sub to avoid withdrawal because I have a child I have to take care of but then that was it.  
I used it to get off not as a replacement.  People who use it as a replacement in my opinion are scared of not taking ANYTHING and are scared of facing life on life's terms.  
You can say until you're blue in the face that you want off but when you're off, you're faced with you and that's not always pleasant.  THAT is where maintenance comes in; i.e. meetings and therapy.  

[mom2rachie]

Hey.... I was not offended, just wanted to let you and others know that more than one person has done it.  Maybe that will give someone else hope knowing that it CAN be done.  
I want off of pills.... after being sober from all other recreational drugs and alcohol for 5 years and attending meetings regularly with sponsees and an ever present sponsor and wonderful SOBER support group, I found myself terribly embarassed to be in the predicament I was in with those things.  
I think Subutex worked incredibly well for me but incredibly well only in the capacity to GET OFF PILLS.  I sure as hell was not going to take a pill for the rest of my life and I wasn't going to use this Sub treatment as a reason to.  I am grateful I did the research I did, prompted by Fladdict, whihc, in my opinion, everyone SHOULD DO and I am grateful I didn't listen to my dr where he said I needed to stay on it for months, possibly years.  
I knew what my plan of action was.  That plan of action, by the way, was because of Steph (FLaddcit) and how she did it.  She helped me a lot.  She was my guiding light so if I could just add my name to hers as someone who HAS done it and used it as a detox ONLY, I am glad to but only as a distant second to her.
As always Beach, love your posts.      
My intention is to lead a SOBER life not just a clean life and to take life as it comes on life's terms and to learn to listen and listen to learn all with God's help.  

[marcatj]

Beach.. as I said in my earlier post, I always ike to read what you have to say.

That said, someone with a 37 year addiction IS different than someone who caught there addiction within a few months. I caught my addiction and I stopped before bottomming out. And by the Grace of God, I take one day at a time to try to remain this way...

So.. this is not a combative email, just one I think that could be informative.

That said, I say keep on doing what you're doing - post from your gut.  We ain't all gonna agree all the time, but you have alot of knowledge, and I for one do like to hear it..

xo
mj

[desertgirl]

we are all different but we are all here for the same reason, keep on posting!!!!!!

[beachtowel]

I want to say I am sorry about my earlier statement that the only person that I was aware of here on the forum that used Suboxone correctly to get off opiates with the correct intentions and the correct plan of action is FLaddict and mom2rachie......
I am sorry mom2rachie I did not realize there were two here that went into a suboxone detox with the best intentions to get off opiates and ease through W/Ds with the intent on a short time use and there true goal was not to substitute one drug for another...........

Congradutations both of you for successfully getting off opiates and using Suboxone for the way it was intended to be used.............your both awesome and should be an inspiration to everyone here....

[beachtowel]

Wow were a bit offense arent we it really sounds like our defending addiction and not dealing with recovery.........
If you have read my posts I have never minimized addicton........but taking 4-6 vics for three months and using heroin or oxycotin for years or dilaudid or Meth for any years is much harder than pill addiction........for a short period of time......
I post from personal experience and two years of college in addiction studies........I have also been counseled by many addiction counselors and have done a lot of research........



To mom2rachie 21 days is not excessive and I think what you did is awesome........but there are many here who take it for years........and those are the people I have posted about.......I truly believe you went into the detox with the suboxone with every intent to stop using and get away from opiates and you did and were successful...why would you think I would ever down down to the great accomplishment that your did what you did took gutz and determination and you wanted to get the hell out of the insanity of addiction so that you could get your life back I have nothing but proud and respectful feeling for your accomplishment.....I am truely sorry that somehow I offended you......




Another thing people talk about Methadone like it is a mild drug and not a problem and is not frequently abused........I deal with Methadone addicts on a regular basis who have been on it for many many years........
Wait2long could you please tell me the benefit of taking suboxone or subutex or methadone for years the benefits you achieve from doing it..........and the positives that you have gained from it.....

As for professional detoxs where patients call and want someone to get them the hell out of there I have seen it many many times..........if you truly have no intentions of stopping you will scream to leave and get someone there to get you.........I'll be she started using that same day she go home.......just a guess.........
another truth I have been in a few professional inpatient detoxes in my life and anytime patient have had terrible anxiety the doctors there have always given them meds for that to help them...the only time I would say it does not happen is either the detox had bad doctors or the patient acted like such an a s s h o l e they just wanted them the hell out of there because they were causing terrible scenes and it effected other patients..............

wait any doctor who recommends that suboxone is a two year program should not practice medicine that is truly redicluas............and incompatent....

it is doctors like that that keep addicts living in insanity..........

Am I an expert on addiction not yet but I have 37 years of active addiction and now two years of addictions studies in college.......I am not attending addiction studies at U of D Mercy college to get me CAC (certified addiction counselor)
When I am a bit abrasive I am not talking to the person I am talking to the addict.......and many times the addict will attack right back I am not offended by it I even hope to keep open communication up to try to discuss the topic we disagree on with a rational state of mind........

wait2long you bring the Analogy of taking handfuls of advil or taking tons of blood pressure meds that logic is from outer space...........
You can attack me all you want and say I am the one who is distorted in his thinking and don't have a clue what I am talking about you have the right to your opinion and I respect it even though I think your still addicted and the addict in you is venting and trying to defend itself............

I wish you all the luck in the world but one last question if I may would you please tell me what pain required a doctor to prescribe you Methadone to take care of it?
I would really like to know the answer to that one and secondly how did it keep you from dying?

[marcatj]

your posts are perfectly wonderful, and very, very helpful.

don't change a thing.

:-)
mj

[wait2long]

i think your posts are fine, alot of good information that alot of new addicts may not be aware of...very helpful to alot of people from what i have read.

[wait2long]

the above post is for you!!

[wait2long]

no i dont take my suboxone as prescribed, i take alot less than prescribed because i am not staying on it for 2 years like my doctor insisted, and who are you to say how suboxone is to be taken? are you a suboxone specialist?   have you ever taken suboxone??...i dont know why you really think suboxone can be abused it cant,and if you insist on the fact it can be abused, please tell me how, i would like to know....   do you take 20 advils just because your an addict,because that is what you are saying, addicts cannot take medicine like we are supposed to, we always take more because we are addicts...well i dont take extra anti-depressants, i dont take extra blood pressure meds, and i dont take extra suboxone either, so i think you may be the one with the distorted thinking.  and going cold turkey with therapy isnt the way to go for everybody...my friend went to a state funded detox about 40 minutes from here she was there for 3 days, i got a phone call from the director/manager or whatever you want to call it that she did, asking me to come pick up my friend because they were not able to deal with her level of anxiety,   what the f#*k is that about, you cant be anxious while in detox? so i decided right there, no thank you, that is the kind of help i dont want or need!!!!  and i guess you think all this addiction stuff with the pills is PETTY, just not as important as someone who shoots heroin?? well you do minimize and have minimized other peoples addictions.!..addiction is addiction.... and MR. EXPERT, methadone is used for pain also not just heroin addicts,   if it wasnt for methadone for me i wouldnt be here today, and i am sure there are alot of people it has saved, whether they use heroin or not is irrelevent... and although NA and AA has helped thousands of people i have every right in this world to say it wasnt for me, and i hated every minute of it!  you need to get off your high horse and stop treating people like they arent as important as you because you conquered a 37 year addiction, and some people may have only had their addiction for a year or two or 7!!!  the way you  post to people is just plain uncalled for, there are ways of being honest and truthful without crushing someone elses feelings and being just plain RUDE!!!    GOODNIGHT!

[mom2rachie]

I have to correct you.  I used Subutex as a detox ONLY.  I was on for less than 21 days and am successfully off all opaiates.  
I do, however, know that my recovery has barely begun and that unless I attend meetins I am merely clean not sober.

[beachtowel]

Sometimes I have a problem with this frigging Thomas Recipe the first line about using Valium using a addictive narcotic to get off another........just the thought of using other meds to get off meds just does not make sense to me.........

Also not to minimize other peoples addictions but to worry sick about using pain pills for a couple of months is really chicken **** and then if they want to use Methadone or Suboxone to help is really crazy when all your looking at is some flu symtoms and maybe some cold sweats for a few days....

Then people knocking N/A when it saves the lives of millions of people,,,people go to one frigging N/A meeting and then knock it for being stupid and useless............

People asking what is stronger percs or vics.......that drives me nuts


I am so sick of hearing about people wanting to use suboxone themselves not as inpatient but to use at home either suboxone or subutex........and think they can take it as prescribed.........

They became addicts because they couldn't use it as perscribed what makes them think they can suddenly they can do it with sub that is distorted thinking.........

One person on the forum in the many months I have been here is FLaddict she is the only one who used suboxone correctly one out of how many.............

Methadone unless you have been shooting Heroin for years Methadone if frigging nuts to start on..

You wanted honestly I hope I lived up to your post............