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20903520 tn?1606525304

Rehab put him on Subutex after 10 days clean!

My husband has been addicted to suboxone for 3 years. Taking 16 mg/day. This drug-totally changed him and turned him into an emotionless zombie. Apathetic to the max! He is not the same person at all! He had been tapering with the help and guidance of a psychiatrist.. he was 10 days completely off suboxone and after the 4th day detoxing on Subs started taking 15 mg Percocet max x 5 days... This was to help with the withdrawal and also he needed to be on something to enter rehab. He goes into rehab and they immediately put him on 4mg of Subutex! Even though he had been strongly coached on not to take it and the rehab center knew the history and knew that Subutex was not supposed to be an option! I am beyond pissed at this point! They started him on 4 mg for 3 days then 2 mg for 2 days. Is there hope at this point! He was only going for 3 days detox and then IOP and now he is staying an extra week, but he will only be off Subutex for 6 days when he is released! I am terrified for when he gets out b/c the 10 days detoxing off this **** was a nightmare! He was a crying emotional train wreck, suicidal, extreme mood swings, and violent! I feel like this very expensive recovery center totally sabotaged his recovery as soon as he stepped foot in that building! Does anyone else have a similar experience to share? I am full of anxiety and fear! Thanks!
12 Responses
18524847 tn?1465595901
So frustrating.  You sound like a terrific wife.  You've stuck it out and this is hard.  My best advice is to trust the rehab center he is at.  Normally, there IS a method to the madness.  He had a hard time last time getting off the subs but he's on it only temporarily now.  I'd be more ticked off  about the percocet.  I know it was short term though.  I really understand your fear!  How many days will he be off subs when he is released?  Could he stay a few extra days?  I'm sure that costs a boat ton of money, rehab is so expensive.  What is he doing for coping skills?  Often, really often, addiction accompanies mental health issues.  And those obviously get worse with addiction.  He probably needs some pretty intensive help with that.  Things like SSRI's or SRNI's can be really helpful along with outpatient mental health treatment to work on how to cope.  

The good news is that he is fighting to get clean.  It's a long battle to overcome addiction but he will get there.  hugs
3 Comments
Thank you for the response! I am a nurse and I encouraged him to take the percocets after talking to colleagues, but that was probably a bad idea hindsight. I started him only on 5 mg/ day for 3 days (which is nothing really/2.5 am and pm), but then that increased pretty quickly to 15 mg b/c of course he was wanting more. Because of his work he could not immediately go to the rehab center and the rehab center told me that he needed to arrive with something in his system for insurance to cover it.... so I convinced myself this was a good idea and considering the backstory it wasn't a horrible idea either! I have never seen anything like this drug! It is the worst possible detox that I have ever witnessed... not just the physical, but the emotional response was to an extreme. We have been married for 25 years, so I know this man very well. I have lost my husband to this evil and I am not sure he will ever be the same. They immediately put him on 4 mg subutex for 2 days and then 3 more days on 2 mg. Mind you he entered off it for 10 days and only on 15 mg percs, so this was a HUGE deal! I do not trust the rehab facility! He will only be staying for 7 days after the last dose of subutex is given. He def needs to stay more, but I know he is not. He refuses. He was only supposed to be there for 3-5 days to start with! His job is on the line big time! And you are correct this rehab does cost a boat ton of money! AND I think the greed of getting more money played a factor in giving his the subutex to start with! I have raised all kinds of hell over this, but spinning my wheels for nothing! The long half-life of subutex will scares me terribly b/c it will take a solid 8 days for this to be fully cleared from his body. He def needs to stay longer, but I don't see that happening. I am scared. I am lost. Thanks again!
Also, I do not know the exact dollar amount that the treatment center is going to bill my insurance, but my out-of-pocket for this "treatment" is $7500.
What irks me is that rehab makes it so not everyone can receive the help as they cost out a lot of people.  It is definitely outrageous. I understand the medical care involved but, come on.  I'm glad you are a nurse as that is really helpful in understanding it all.  I am sorry you have lost faith in this center.  I have to in my heart of hearts believe they know why they did what they did and it is for a reason to ultimately help your husband.  Can you request an extra few days for him to stay?  How much more would it be?  I wish they'd work with people more and TRUST family to have input to the care given.  
7163794 tn?1457366813
COMMUNITY LEADER
I read your post out loud to my husband b/c I could so totally relate.  I was addicted to suboxone for 7 years, I took 24mg a day.  I quit on January 1st, 2014 and that was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life!  My husband and kids helped me.  The idea of EVER going back on suboxone would make me physically ill.  However, my husband was addicted to pills and then switched over to the subs after I got clean.  We've had many arguements (discussions) regarding his complete lack of emotion or interest in ANYTHING!!!!!  He's so freakin miserable.  We are parents of 4, small business owners, active members of life.............I am clean and have been since I quit b/c of recovery.  My husband is of the school that this should be something he can do on his own.  That's not getting us very far.

At this point, if the rehab only intends to have him on it for 3 days (not sure what the point would've been seeing as was already off of it)....but I do know the rule of having to have something in your system to get into rehab.  When I switched my husband from getting the subs on street to getting them from a dr he had to have opiates in his system as well.  It is what it is.  

Come on here often...........let us know what you need............you are soooo not on your own with this.  Stay strong!
1 Comments
Thank you! He just transferred today from medical detox where he has been for 6 days. He has been receiving subutex for 6 straight days and now he is on the residential side and is getting d/c on Sunday. I am panicked! He just called me for the first time and I went off on him and now I feel bad! Of course he doesn't want to be there now b/c he received his last dose of subutex this morning. And once again I am the bad guy! Suboxone is a gift from HELL! And rehab is ALL about the money! They don't care!
7163794 tn?1457366813
COMMUNITY LEADER
Don't panic.  He got off it once he can do it again.  It might be hard, but he can do it.  My concern is that it wasn't really fully out of his system to begin with (even though he had stopped taking it) so to me, this just prolonged his w/d.  Honestly, I quit cold turkey off of 24mg and it took about 2/3 days for w/d to really kick in and I was down for over a month.  It felt like it was taking forever to get out of my system b/c of it's half-life.  I've seen sub w/d be different for everyone, taper/ no taper, low dose/ high dose, some (lucky sob's) have no w/d AT ALL???

Here's my thought...........the medical detox people did NOT listen to you when you explained what was going on.  They just did their standard medical detox which is probably person walks in with opiates in system.  No more opiates, put on subs for the length of the detox.  The theory being that 6/7 days on low dose of subs isn't enough to really get addicted.  However, as a person addicted to subs...........I know better.  What is the plan for once he gets out of detox?  Is he going to do any type of rehab facility or he's just going to come home?  He doesn't want to be there...........fine.  But you can't come home.  Put your foot down!
1 Comments
I had already kicked him out! The week of labor day I found out that he was having an affair with my next door and best friend of 15 years AND that he had been using Suboxone for 2.5 years. GTFO of my house! We have been married for 25 years. I found him in the floor squirming like a worm on day 2 of of w/d and my heart broke for him and I immediately went into nurse/loving wife role and about killed myself mentally getting him through those 10 days and into that treatment center! I just called to check on him and of course he is detoxing hard and in no shape to work a program or sit through these classes today! He is getting d/c on Sunday! This will be 6 days after his last dose of subutex! He cannot stay longer b/c of his job and he was not even supposed to stay there this week! But ya know they loaded him up on subutex and helped him call his employer to get him a week of "stablization" prior to starting IOP! This whole situation has me so frustrated! It really should be criminal what's happened here! They got my $7k plus insurance payment and that is all this is about! We are on the verge of losing everything and this was my only hope at giving him a chance to heal! Now.. i am lost! Putting my foot down means nothing! He has money. He has an apartment. Nothing else I can do! I am devastated! He was also spending $1700-$2k month buying this off the street (well from my POS brother!)
7163794 tn?1457366813
COMMUNITY LEADER
Holy ****..............You have NO IDEA how similar our stories are.  I 100% know how mad and frustrated you are right now.  I had to let my husband back in b/c he was detoxing in our business office!!!!  Trust me, I know!  He called me begging to come back home.......after I kicked him out when I found out that he was having an affair with a customer of ours that was helping him get pills. You wanna talk stupid........WE WORK TOGETHER!!!!  It was their daily goal.  He provides the money and she spends the day getting pills (and she get's hers off of doing the work of getting them for him).   To save our business and our home and our family, I let him come back to go through the w/d at home.  This happened BEFORE I got clean.  I knew he was on the pills and anytime I would mention the fact that he couldn't so anything without them he would say, "OK......give me those subs in your purse and let's see how far you get"!  It devastated me and my kids saw it all.  It's part of what helped me to finally get clean and stay clean.  Just FYI.....my husband broke his hip (due to deteriorating bones from pills) 3 weeks after he came back.  DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT WAS TO GIVE A ****!!!!!  No one knew what was going on so I had to pretend!  I totally get where your at.

I'm thinking...........that he needs to get clean and you two need to figure out what you're going to do.  We went through 3 years of marriage counseling (it was that or I was going to kill him).  I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep and my sub dr put me on a cocktail of crap that kept me in zombie mode for 3 years after that.  I know your trying to do the right thing, married for 25 years is nothing to sneeze at.  But at this point, if he wants you continue with him, YOU call the shots.  He has to do what you need him to do in order for you to help.  Otherwise, let him fall on his face!  He'll get up.

Can the "detox" center discharge him if he's still sick?  I'm telling you it literally took me 1 month to be able to even leave the house when I was detoxing.  But it can be done!!!  
2 Comments
He can walk right out of the rehab center if he chooses. They cannot make him stay there. My next door neighbor does not use any drugs. She is a true blooded succubus! He is so pitiful right now and I can't help but feel sorry for him! I knew this was going to happen as soon as I discovered they put him on a subutex "taper." I am so lucky that I am not dealing with any type of addiction. I quit drinking 2.5 years ago and I don't take drugs or use any substances... but for the grace of God! My husband is an incredibly smart man and a good man... I don't recognize this person before me right now. I want my husband back. I want this version to disappear back to the pits of hell that it came from! The betrayal is so hard! He hasn't wanted anything to do with me! Remember, he didn't even speak to me for a year really! No birthday, no holidays, no vacations, no dinners, nothing for a solid year b/c of this ***** next door and b/c of the drugs. She is very weak and bland and does not have an identity! She is an emotional vampire and his current personality matches up with her b/c she demands very little! I am having a hard time even knowing what I am even upset about! The list of resentments is so long! My husband must return to work next week! He has a very prestigious job and his job does not know any of this. I am sure they are getting suspicious at this point! I hope your situation works out! I can promise you this without hesitation.... the ONLY chance that my husband has to rejoin this family will not involve drugs! If he goes back to using, I will take whatever legal actions necessary! Thanks for sharing your story with me!
Just want you to know you are not alone. I know we don't know each other but woman to woman, you can do this! Stay strong and if you have to, let him fall. It might be what he needs! Some of us have to get pretty freakin low before we see it. Have you ever considered an al-anon mtg? At least it would give you an outlet. You can't save your husband....he has to do that. But you can take care of yourself!
7163794 tn?1457366813
COMMUNITY LEADER
Was your "friend" taking subs as well?  
20903520 tn?1606525304
Update: Today he is 11 days clean from subs. He taking 25 mg Seroquel bid currently. He has a lot of physical complaints and is very emotionless. He says that he feels no emotions and doesn't even feel any connection to God. His affect is very flat and he seems very distant. The restless legs have improved significantly, but still an issue. He has constant indigestion and he has these severe sneeze attacks several times a day. After 8 days without a BM I gave him mag citrate and that def did the trick. He had diarrhea for the past two days. I think all those toxins leaving his body at once is having a physical reaction. He def does not feel well and frankly, I am getting very exhausted with all this. I am trying to be patient, but my fuse is dwindling. It's very hard to keep gas in someone else's tank when yours is running on fumes. Sigh...
3 Comments
The sneezing is normal...not sure about bowel movements cause I was in bathroom non stop! It's going to take a while for him to get clean fully so keep those fumes a bit longer. A really good multivitamin, dark green leafy veges, protein, those vir c packets help a lot! Epsom salt baths (I did those 2/3 times a day!) And rest! He's kidding himself if he thinks it's all going to go back to normal quickly. I can honestly say it took awhile for me to start fully functioning normally. Kind of odd with the no emotion status cause I was on an emotional roller coaster for months after getting clean. Perhaps a side effect of the Seroquil? The subs have such a numbing effect that once your not taking them.....you should be feeling EVERYTHING?
Also, for the RLS, they make a homeopathic med that some says work. I didn't find it did much for me. Tight diabetic socks! I wore them constantly and they did help.
Before rehab when he had 10 days off subs, he had terrible diarrhea. After the stint in "detox" when he was back on subutex for 6 days, he immediately started a withdrawl protocol with Bentyl, zofran, Robaxin, trazadone, and seroquel.. all of whcih cause constipation, so I am thinking this is what was going on. The seroquel def zones him out. If he doesn't take it, he is emotionally all over the place. He is going to have to stop it soon. I think the restless leg is also a side effect of the seroquel, which can cause it too. Thanks for the advice!
20903520 tn?1606525304
Update.. 22 days since the last Sub and he went to the ED yesterday b/c he has turned into a hypochondriac! He is still detoxing pretty hard this far out! The GI upset with severe diarrhea has been going on for the past 5 days. Extreme fatigue and he complains constantly about something hurting or something being wrong with him! Yesterday, was the 3rd time he has had labs checked this month and he also had a chest x-ray and a CT scan of the abdomen/pelvis. All negative! It is withdrawals! He is so sick... STILL! Jeez! He has moments where he seems somewhat tearful, but they are so brief! Still very apathetic and no emotional response to anything. I am so tired...
2 Comments
Don't forget to take care of yourself during this ordeal!!!  You can't both be down....and I know your probably moving on borrowed time.  Everything you describe seems pretty normal to me with how your husband is behaving.  They turn into hypochondriacs b/c they're scared and they don't realize this is WITHDRAWAL!  It's not supposed to be easy....it's supposed to be hard.  I am in the group that believes this can be a good future deterrent in future using.  Keep him hydrated (especially since he's having such severe diarrhea)......I chose not to stop my stomach issues with Immodium b/c what was coming out was like a black tarry substance and I wanted it out of me.  (kind of gross, sorry). But, Immodium can help if he needs a break from the bathrooom.  Just don't let him overdue it.  Meal replacement shakes helped as well.  800mg of Motrin to help with general aches and pains.  Is he taking the Epsom salt baths b/c they really do help!

I know your tired and probably pretty mad...........you can kill him later!  :)    Take good vitamins and eat really clean so you can keep your immune system up!  
Thank you!!!
1135275 tn?1586565652
I can't comment on opiate withdrawal as that is not part of my wheelhouse of experience, but I do have experience with Seroquel. A low dose immediately zapped my emotions and personality. Boom - gone. I gave it some time to go away and it didn't. If he's still taking the Seroquel, I wonder if that could account for the lack of affect/emotional range.

Best,
~mm
3 Comments
he hasn't taken seroquel in about a week... he is now only taking 25 mg zoloft.. i think the apathy is from long term suboxone abuse... hopefully his dopamine recepetors start regulating soon.
It sounds like you're right! When I stopped taking the Seroquel, my personality and affect came back in a couple days, so it does sound like it might not be that. Hoping that it comes back soon! I know that it can and does come back just based on how long I've been here reading the stories of others, but can't speak to it firsthand.

Wishing this gets better sooner rather than later!
~mm
Thank you!!
18524847 tn?1465595901
How's he doing?  How are things going??  Interesting regarding seroquel!  Sometimes you have to wonder why some meds exist!
1 Comments
He is currently only taking 25 mg of Zoloft and 50 mg of Trazadone (night). This has been a very long process and it's ongoing. He is still having chronic diarrhea and still has night sweats a couple of times per week. He still has physical complaints ongoing, but nothing at all like it was just a week ago. He says he feels like a million thoughts attacking his brain during the night. He is pretty much without any emotion... STILL! And everything that has ever gone wrong in his life is my fault. He is still in IOP and every now and then I see a glimpse of something familiar in him, but for the most part I no longer recognize the man that I have been married to half my life. Suboxone truly is a gift straight from hell! Big pharma knew exactly what they were doing to keep the cash flow with this one. It has destroyed everything for my family.
7163794 tn?1457366813
COMMUNITY LEADER
How are things going SubsFromHell???  I hope things are getting better.  We're here to listen.....just checking in.....
1 Comments
Thank you so very much! Means a lot! He is slowly but surely getting better. Today makes 50 days off subs. It has been an absolute nightmare. He is far from 100%, but every week is improvement from the previous. The depression pretty bad right now. He was on zoloft and horrible diarrhea, so now on lexapro and seems to help a bit. Our marriage is still up in the air and I can't trust him. He hasn't came clean with anything really, but he is still very early in recovery. He is still in IOP and has about 2 weeks left of that. I think he needs longer and he is going to try to see if he can extend it. He was so sick the first several weeks that he couldn't truly work a program. I have hope, but I am full of fear and worry too. Trying to let go and let God. Thanks again!
7163794 tn?1457366813
COMMUNITY LEADER
You're definitely on the right track!  I know the withdrawal off of subs is a nightmare and I NEVER want to do it again, thats for damn sure!!!

Now that he's starting to get better has he considered what he's going to do for aftercare once his IOP is done?  What's his plan to ensure this doesn't happen again?  It is suggested (it's what I did) that some type of recovery plan be put into place.  He can talk it over with his counselor in IOP for sure. I'm sure they're bombarding him with recovery options.  

Remember, this didn't only happen to him..........you must take care of yourself!  I'm assuming your working still (which I don't know how your doing except that the bills still need to get paid)......take some time for yourself.  I strongly recommend you find an Al-Anon type program, even if it's just to get some information.  You will find lots of support in those rooms.
4 Comments
How long did it take you to return back to baseline? I barely recognize him now! I have dated him since high school and married for 23 years and he is almost a stranger. He is so very depressed and full of anxiety. So disconnected! Not just with me, but his children! He was always an amazing father! Loved his kids more than life, but now he seems so distant! I am starting to wonder if he is ever going to be "normal" again.
viví todo eso con mi marido, tu marido está en la última etapa, volverá de la misma manera que antes, la depresión y la anciedad  desaparecieron lentamente, pero está en una etapa en la que puede recaer de nuevo, debido a la depresión y la anciedad es bueno que asista a terapias, los suplementos de vitaminas ayudaran, los canabbis médicinal reducen la anciedad y lo ayudan a dormir (es opción) cree que todo volvera hacer igual,  trátalo con mucho amor  está siendo muy valiente, las felicitaciones están en la etapa final :)
I didn't start feeling somewhat "normal" until about the 6 month mark.  This is going to be a process.  It's not going to be get off the drugs and everything goes back to normal, regretfully, thats not how this works.  We have to relearn quite a bit.  Every emotion you wrote is normal for where's he's at in his recovery.  Being disconnected, flat, these are normal.  This is where some type of recovery comes into play.  We did drugs for so long we forgot what normal is........and honestly, why would we go back there b/c our normal is what got us to where we are now.  He's going to have to start some type of recovery program if he wants to move forward.  Lots of people think that the problem was the drugs, so once those are gone, why are we still having problems.....it's b/c the drugs weren't the actual problem........we were!  I don't think it's distance as much as it is that he's lost.  

The suboxone does leave us in quite a fog for awhile after we remove it from our system.  I felt bone and muscle aches for months afterwards....like a methadone detox.  I'm just going to be blunt with you b/c that really is the best way in this situation.  You 2 will have alot of work to do to salvage what you can.  He needs a program of recovery ASAP and you do to.  You don't want things to go back to where they were...........you want things to be better.  In order for things to get better, then he needs to figure out why this happened and he can do that in recovery.  That's what the step work is for.......to figure out who we are, what we want, let go of past guilts, apologize and move forwards.  And you need some support as well.
Thank you for the comment! He is in a recovery program. He has been in intensive out patients for weeks now.
20903520 tn?1606525304
Update.
My husband is now approaching 80 days clean. He is still in IOP, but that is finishing up this week. He requested another 8 sessions and we worked out a deal with the program and paid out of pocket. He doesn't have a sponsor and he hasn't attended any meetings outside of IOP, so he is working on aftercare. He is currently taking Lexapro and he just stopped taking lamcital. He had been on Trileptal prior to lamictal, but the side effects are pretty bad for him. His mood has def turned a corner. He is more engaged and eagerly going out to dinner, the store, and church. These are things he NEVER did previously. He is still hella weird at times while his brain attempting to repair the damage subs caused. People can sing praises about subs all they care to, but it's only a trap. Having been immersed in this addiction and now recovery with subs, I can clearly and unequivocally advise you that you are jumping from the fire into the furnace! Luckily, after 3 years of heavy abuse my husband is on a different path today. I just hope and pray he can stay there. He has said that he would put a bullet in his head before he ever took another suboxone. He still has ongoing issues with leg pain and his mood is erratic at times, but the psych meds have helped tremendously with that. He is 44 years old and had never taken any type of prescription medications prior to this. He also takes trazodone at night to sleep. We are slowly trying to rebuild our lives back. We are also in counseling and it's still pretty messy. I trust God and I know that he will continue to make a way for my family. That whole saying not where we want to be, but glad not where we used to be is very applicable! Thanks for listening and all the support! Much appreciated!
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