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Short term heroin and suboxone user - lost job and all motivation
Ugh... Where to begin? I'm a 25 y/o male and I am currently living at home with my parents. I have had a long history of untreated depression, pretty much since puberty. When I was 22 I tried Zoloft, but ended up going off of it after a few months. I am now on Paxil and have been for about 1 1/2 months. A couple months before that I was in an accident and got a bottle of 100 Vicodin from my Dr. for rib pain. I went through them in a couple weeks. This was not my first experience with opiates. I had been abusing them on and off for years, but nothing more than pain pills. Well, when I ran out of the pills, my friend started getting into sniffing heroin. Of course, I did too. We used it for a couple months, daily. I lost my job during this time due to nodding off in an important meeting. This didn't stop me. What did stop me was our dealer disappearing for rehab. A couple weeks ago we could no longer get it and we all went into withdrawal. I know two months sounds like nothing, but we couldn't sleep, we were scared to leave the house, we were physically sick, etc. Then the dealer returned and started giving us suboxone. This was a life saver. It totally obliterated all symptoms. Up until now. I used it for probably a couple weeks, just 4-6m/g a day, and then we all decided to stop. Well, now I feel like crap again. The reality of being jobless is hitting me hard, however I have zero motivation to look for one. I don't want to do anything but lay in bed, but even then I can feel my heart pounding out of my chest and my thoughts racing. It's been 4 days with no sub, how much longer is this going to last? Could my anti-depressants be magnifying it? I never thought that only using a little bit compared to what most people go through would still lead to such a debilitating withdrawal. I swear, I'm never touching opiates again.
By the way, we all lose motivation to do things. Losing motivation to do whatever is normal. (Did you know that according to a study approximately 70% of Americans do NOT like their jobs. But when the people in the study were asked why they didn't do something about it, like go back to school, change careers, or find another job most people said they lacked the motivation to do any of those things.)
And we won't discuss how many times I have got all suited up for a hard road bike ride then said "fcuk this" and ate pizza instead. :)
Also, keep in mind that one of the addiction withdrawal symptoms is... drum roll... lack of motivation! So that's OK.
You need to accept that a lot of what you are experiencing is part of the mind games that demon on your shoulder is playing with you. While you are going through all this it does not matter if you simply want to lay in bed all day. If you want to watch TV and nothing else, that's fine. You are beating your addiction, it is OK to sit on your unmotivated a$$ all day and night until you get through this.
Now if in six months you are still sitting around watching TV, and you have The Price Is Right show format committed to memory, then we need to have an a$$ whoopin session with that little evil demon on your shoulder.
- And you are not alone in your depression. Surely you have seen the nightly news reports telling about the millions of Americans who suffer from mild to severe depression. That can be dealt with, but not until you dispatch the addiction.
And we won't discuss how many times I have got all suited up for a hard road bike ride then said "fcuk this" and ate pizza instead. :)
Also, keep in mind that one of the addiction withdrawal symptoms is... drum roll... lack of motivation! So that's OK.
You need to accept that a lot of what you are experiencing is part of the mind games that demon on your shoulder is playing with you. While you are going through all this it does not matter if you simply want to lay in bed all day. If you want to watch TV and nothing else, that's fine. You are beating your addiction, it is OK to sit on your unmotivated a$$ all day and night until you get through this.
Now if in six months you are still sitting around watching TV, and you have The Price Is Right show format committed to memory, then we need to have an a$$ whoopin session with that little evil demon on your shoulder.
- And you are not alone in your depression. Surely you have seen the nightly news reports telling about the millions of Americans who suffer from mild to severe depression. That can be dealt with, but not until you dispatch the addiction.
Hey Belts, I am new to these boards but think I have a lot to say.
Anyway, part of your problem is that your are dealing with the most stressful events in one's life, so talk about getting hit hard. As I have said to others, the fact that you are on here is a great thing, you can feel a sense of achievement.
-- As to the ton of bricks you have on your shoulders, be advised that I have been a lot of experience in employment law (sheesh, I think it is 26 years now). What I would tell clients (I went on self-imposed sabbatical to write books) is that loss of a job and being unemployed is really, really, really tough to deal with. I cite an article that I read in the 80s that ranked the top ten events people have to deal with in life. #1 on the list was "loss of a loved one." #2 was "loss of job!"
That's right, loss of a job is more stressful than divorce, money problems, relocation, being a crime victim (other things on the list).
Understand that when trying to deal with this problem on top of the other "issues" you describe.
Sidenote: I lost my fiance in a car accident so I have experience in dealing with #1 on the list of top ten items.
-- You have to prioritize solving your problems. For example, assume you got a great job. Because of the mind fcuk you are going through with withdrawals, unless your job is night watchman where you can sleep on a cot all night, watch TV, and eat snacks, all for $50 an hour, you are going to mess up on any job, and get fired. So quit trying to work, or even find work.
-- From everything you have revealed I would say that first things first you need to batten down the hatches (that's what they do on ships when sailing into a storm) and concentrate on getting clean, so to speak. Nothing else matters, this is the #1 priority. So stop doing anything except with coping with withdrawals (aka 50% is the mind fcuk).
-- As far as the physical symptoms, oh boo hoo, cry us a river. There's people who have things a lot worse than us, a lot worse. So you will not get any sympathy from me on us having to deal with five to 20 days of pain and discomfort. When I get down and start feeling sorry for myself I remind myself of people as young as you, who got in a motorcycle accident and have to spend the next 60 years in a wheel chair. Or I recall people on the news who had perfect lives, but they drove drunk after going to a five star restaurant, killed a bicyclist, attempted to flee the scene, got caught and will not be going to prison for five years.
That actually happened last year to someone I heard about in the news, who happened to know a friend of a friend of my ex GF. She told me she knows the guy and met him and he was a good person. But he did what he did and now is going to prison.
And then there's a wealthy, successful attorney who a month ago did the exact same thing as the other person, he was suspected of drunk driving, hit a cyclist, fled the scene and parked his $100,000 Mercedes in his garage. The police eventually found out who he was and staked out the house. When he went home about a week after the incident the police arrested him. Of course, his car matches the accident and the pieces of the car at the scene fit his car like a puzzle.
This otherwise fine man (from all appearances) will now be doing at least five years in prison.
My point is, that when I am getting depressed or suffering from withdrawal symptoms I think about those people (those in a wheelchair, otherwise good people going to prison). When I do that my situation becomes nothing and I brand myself a loser, whiner, and moron. And I also know that if I went to any of those people and said "I will trade places with you, you can suffer my withdrawals, I will go to prison" that they would trade places instantly as if by magic.
-- You also need to look at the positive things you have.
Obviously you have your intelligence. Your comments indicate competence and that you have good communication skills.
Your thinking processes also seem intact and you know how to make intelligent wise choices. (Despite your bad decisions in life, like I said, the fact that you looked on the Net and ended up here indicates you are a wise person. I don't know many, if any, including myself, who at 25 would act as you are, coming in here, confessing your sins and trying to take care of this particular problem.
Heck, I think it is commendable and a sign of extreme intelligence and discipline for anyone to end up in here. It also indicates people in here, including you, have a kind heart. That matters, that people come in here and contribute to the discussion, even if it is "only" asking for help.
- In regards to making the bad decisions you have, once again, oh boo hoo, cry me another river. I got news for you, we ALL have made bad decisions. And the older we are the longer the list is gonna be. Matter of fact, the only way someone could get me to make a list and description of all the bad decisions I have made in life, is if they are going to pay me $1,000 a day for the ten days it would take me to write that list. (And this is coming from someone who has a rather long, long, long list of accomplishments.)
So don't dwell on the negative, don't think about the bad stuff.
- So you got fired for nodding off at a meeting?! Hey, I'd fire your a$$ too. Big deal. Did you know that on average people now in their working careers will have three to ten jobs?! Nowadays if you are working at the same job for five years that's considered long term employment. Gone are the days of getting a gold watch after 30 years at the same company.
So don't feel bad about getting canned. Millions of people get terminated from their jobs every month. 30 years ago getting fired was a big deal, no longer. And from what I can tell after talking to hundreds of people over the years (clients) and reading cases, people I know, etc. it seems accurate that most everyone gets fired at least once or twice in their working careers.
I have to walk my dogs, but I will get back to you if you want.
For now, hang in there. You are on day 8 of staying clean, that is amazing, you deserve an award. (Given the level of your use I would say that your withdrawal symptoms are going to subside after about day 10, whereas others I have read about experience the hump after day 5.) Keep in mind I am not even an amateur at all this, I am just going by what I have read and experienced myself.
Also, the demon sitting on your shoulder is really a persistent, evil little fcuk. It will take a lot more effort dealing with him (I assume all demons are males.) As you probably know, dealing with the mental side of all this is really tough. IMO that is 50% of the battle.
The human body can endure a lot, it is the mental stuff that is the biggest roadblock to beating this. Again, when you get down think about all the good stuff and the positive things.
I find what really helps is to watch what I call "hardship movies" where the point of the movie is to illustrate people conquering their demons or surviving hardship.
For example, watch a movie named "Little Dieter Needs To Fly." It is a POW movie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Dieter_Needs_to_Fly
Also watch "Door to Door" staring William H. Macy.
http://www.tntdrama.com/title/?oid=341694
Those kinds of movies can help quite a bit more than anything I can say.
Bye for now. And don't take offense to some of the things I said, that's the Drill Instructor in me, from when I was in the military.
Anyway, part of your problem is that your are dealing with the most stressful events in one's life, so talk about getting hit hard. As I have said to others, the fact that you are on here is a great thing, you can feel a sense of achievement.
-- As to the ton of bricks you have on your shoulders, be advised that I have been a lot of experience in employment law (sheesh, I think it is 26 years now). What I would tell clients (I went on self-imposed sabbatical to write books) is that loss of a job and being unemployed is really, really, really tough to deal with. I cite an article that I read in the 80s that ranked the top ten events people have to deal with in life. #1 on the list was "loss of a loved one." #2 was "loss of job!"
That's right, loss of a job is more stressful than divorce, money problems, relocation, being a crime victim (other things on the list).
Understand that when trying to deal with this problem on top of the other "issues" you describe.
Sidenote: I lost my fiance in a car accident so I have experience in dealing with #1 on the list of top ten items.
-- You have to prioritize solving your problems. For example, assume you got a great job. Because of the mind fcuk you are going through with withdrawals, unless your job is night watchman where you can sleep on a cot all night, watch TV, and eat snacks, all for $50 an hour, you are going to mess up on any job, and get fired. So quit trying to work, or even find work.
-- From everything you have revealed I would say that first things first you need to batten down the hatches (that's what they do on ships when sailing into a storm) and concentrate on getting clean, so to speak. Nothing else matters, this is the #1 priority. So stop doing anything except with coping with withdrawals (aka 50% is the mind fcuk).
-- As far as the physical symptoms, oh boo hoo, cry us a river. There's people who have things a lot worse than us, a lot worse. So you will not get any sympathy from me on us having to deal with five to 20 days of pain and discomfort. When I get down and start feeling sorry for myself I remind myself of people as young as you, who got in a motorcycle accident and have to spend the next 60 years in a wheel chair. Or I recall people on the news who had perfect lives, but they drove drunk after going to a five star restaurant, killed a bicyclist, attempted to flee the scene, got caught and will not be going to prison for five years.
That actually happened last year to someone I heard about in the news, who happened to know a friend of a friend of my ex GF. She told me she knows the guy and met him and he was a good person. But he did what he did and now is going to prison.
And then there's a wealthy, successful attorney who a month ago did the exact same thing as the other person, he was suspected of drunk driving, hit a cyclist, fled the scene and parked his $100,000 Mercedes in his garage. The police eventually found out who he was and staked out the house. When he went home about a week after the incident the police arrested him. Of course, his car matches the accident and the pieces of the car at the scene fit his car like a puzzle.
This otherwise fine man (from all appearances) will now be doing at least five years in prison.
My point is, that when I am getting depressed or suffering from withdrawal symptoms I think about those people (those in a wheelchair, otherwise good people going to prison). When I do that my situation becomes nothing and I brand myself a loser, whiner, and moron. And I also know that if I went to any of those people and said "I will trade places with you, you can suffer my withdrawals, I will go to prison" that they would trade places instantly as if by magic.
-- You also need to look at the positive things you have.
Obviously you have your intelligence. Your comments indicate competence and that you have good communication skills.
Your thinking processes also seem intact and you know how to make intelligent wise choices. (Despite your bad decisions in life, like I said, the fact that you looked on the Net and ended up here indicates you are a wise person. I don't know many, if any, including myself, who at 25 would act as you are, coming in here, confessing your sins and trying to take care of this particular problem.
Heck, I think it is commendable and a sign of extreme intelligence and discipline for anyone to end up in here. It also indicates people in here, including you, have a kind heart. That matters, that people come in here and contribute to the discussion, even if it is "only" asking for help.
- In regards to making the bad decisions you have, once again, oh boo hoo, cry me another river. I got news for you, we ALL have made bad decisions. And the older we are the longer the list is gonna be. Matter of fact, the only way someone could get me to make a list and description of all the bad decisions I have made in life, is if they are going to pay me $1,000 a day for the ten days it would take me to write that list. (And this is coming from someone who has a rather long, long, long list of accomplishments.)
So don't dwell on the negative, don't think about the bad stuff.
- So you got fired for nodding off at a meeting?! Hey, I'd fire your a$$ too. Big deal. Did you know that on average people now in their working careers will have three to ten jobs?! Nowadays if you are working at the same job for five years that's considered long term employment. Gone are the days of getting a gold watch after 30 years at the same company.
So don't feel bad about getting canned. Millions of people get terminated from their jobs every month. 30 years ago getting fired was a big deal, no longer. And from what I can tell after talking to hundreds of people over the years (clients) and reading cases, people I know, etc. it seems accurate that most everyone gets fired at least once or twice in their working careers.
I have to walk my dogs, but I will get back to you if you want.
For now, hang in there. You are on day 8 of staying clean, that is amazing, you deserve an award. (Given the level of your use I would say that your withdrawal symptoms are going to subside after about day 10, whereas others I have read about experience the hump after day 5.) Keep in mind I am not even an amateur at all this, I am just going by what I have read and experienced myself.
Also, the demon sitting on your shoulder is really a persistent, evil little fcuk. It will take a lot more effort dealing with him (I assume all demons are males.) As you probably know, dealing with the mental side of all this is really tough. IMO that is 50% of the battle.
The human body can endure a lot, it is the mental stuff that is the biggest roadblock to beating this. Again, when you get down think about all the good stuff and the positive things.
I find what really helps is to watch what I call "hardship movies" where the point of the movie is to illustrate people conquering their demons or surviving hardship.
For example, watch a movie named "Little Dieter Needs To Fly." It is a POW movie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Dieter_Needs_to_Fly
Also watch "Door to Door" staring William H. Macy.
http://www.tntdrama.com/title/?oid=341694
Those kinds of movies can help quite a bit more than anything I can say.
Bye for now. And don't take offense to some of the things I said, that's the Drill Instructor in me, from when I was in the military.
Okay. Time to be proactive! There are some OTC meds that will help so don't punish yourself...
Get some Immodium for the GI stuff
Get some OTC sleep meds: Melatonin (all natural) Benadryl, Sominex or any that seem like they might work..
Increase your fluid intake and drink Gatorade
Be sure to eat good food; no junk!
Get some exercise...not big just move around outdoors and walk a little; it helps.
I'll bet you're having some rebound depression which will go away. I don't think the Paxil is working quite yet so be patient with it. I think it's a good AD for most people but any AD will have a hard time working through opiates. It's just how it goes so you probably got no benefit from it.
Try to relax and get through this. Yes, you have a lot to do but you need to feel much better to get it done. Concentrate on some basic needs right now: Eating,drinking,sleeping,etc...
Post back with questions and hang in there. I think you're exactly where you should be in the process.
Get some Immodium for the GI stuff
Get some OTC sleep meds: Melatonin (all natural) Benadryl, Sominex or any that seem like they might work..
Increase your fluid intake and drink Gatorade
Be sure to eat good food; no junk!
Get some exercise...not big just move around outdoors and walk a little; it helps.
I'll bet you're having some rebound depression which will go away. I don't think the Paxil is working quite yet so be patient with it. I think it's a good AD for most people but any AD will have a hard time working through opiates. It's just how it goes so you probably got no benefit from it.
Try to relax and get through this. Yes, you have a lot to do but you need to feel much better to get it done. Concentrate on some basic needs right now: Eating,drinking,sleeping,etc...
Post back with questions and hang in there. I think you're exactly where you should be in the process.
Hello again. Since I posted here last, I've again returned to a living hell... Right now I'm on day 8 being clean, and feeling much better than I have the past few days, but something is still off. Not counting last night, I've had maybe 8 hours of ****** sleep total over the past 4 days. No matter how tired I get, the moment I lay down for bed, the hot/cold flashes hit and my mind starts racing. I can't get comfortable. It really *****.
I was finally able to fall asleep last night after laying in bed for an hour, but I still woke up feeling very down after only 5 hours of sleep. I just have this impending feeling of doom, like nothing is going to get better. It's making me physically ill. I've had heartburn and diarrhea the entire time, and it literally makes me feel like I'm dying.
I just hope things get better soon. I can't take much more of this, being trapped in my own hellish mind. :(
I was finally able to fall asleep last night after laying in bed for an hour, but I still woke up feeling very down after only 5 hours of sleep. I just have this impending feeling of doom, like nothing is going to get better. It's making me physically ill. I've had heartburn and diarrhea the entire time, and it literally makes me feel like I'm dying.
I just hope things get better soon. I can't take much more of this, being trapped in my own hellish mind. :(
You have received excellent advice from people who have a ton of clean time and know what they are talking about. I just wanted to offer my support and welcome you to the forum. I am on hour 49 clean and really seeing a nice bright light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck and stay strong.
You're right! Drugs are so not worth it. May feel like it in the beginning, but by the time you are doing them just to keep from being sick, it's a horrible way to live! Nothing is worth having to go through this again, right? Just remember this........nothing feels as good as the bad of going through the withdrawals! NOTHING is worth that. I found that remembering how bad that feels is a great motivation to not pick up again! At least for me it's that way. And coming here and helping other people and reading the posts of what people are going through really helps me stay clean. You have to find some kind of aftercare that fits you. That will help you more than anything in the world.
You'll be able to reconnect with your straight friends again. May take you some time and getting your nerve up, but you will know when it feels right. My friends were there for me and supported me 100%. I didn't try to hide anything. I found that it was obvious to everyone anyway. They had all worried about me and were just glad that I was doing well. Those friends are still with me today! And they are all so proud of me now. Same goes for my entire family! They will be more understanding than you think!
Definitely be gentle with yourself for a few weeks! This is a difficult transition, and believe it or not......you're doing good. Just hang in there, and don't be too hard on yourself! Ok?
You'll be able to reconnect with your straight friends again. May take you some time and getting your nerve up, but you will know when it feels right. My friends were there for me and supported me 100%. I didn't try to hide anything. I found that it was obvious to everyone anyway. They had all worried about me and were just glad that I was doing well. Those friends are still with me today! And they are all so proud of me now. Same goes for my entire family! They will be more understanding than you think!
Definitely be gentle with yourself for a few weeks! This is a difficult transition, and believe it or not......you're doing good. Just hang in there, and don't be too hard on yourself! Ok?
Thanks ImDONE. That's the plan. One thing at a time. I've taken it easy tonight and distracted myself with some comedy shows. I actually caught myself laughing out loud a couple times, which is great! Also, my parents are being very supportive. I was so scared that they'd kick me out after learning I lost my job, but they are really coming through for me and being understanding. I have not told them about the heroin or suboxone, simply because it would devastate them. My uncle took his own life due to heroin addiction, and I don't need them thinking I'm heading down that path. I'm quite ashamed of myself, looking back, but at the same time I have a new-found strength. I like to think that he's out there somewhere watching over me. He was a really great and caring guy before he got caught up with hard drugs. I mean it when I say I'm never going back, no matter what it takes. It's so not worth it.
Just go easy on yourself for a while okay? The physical stuff will pass and you're right, you will have to deal w/the emotional side of all of this. But one thing at a time. You'll get there just find the right aftercare. And you'll eventually feel well enough to re-connect with your true (and sober) friends.
Congrats for quitting. :)
Congrats for quitting. :)
Thanks a lot for the support and quick responses. I am still on my depression meds and I have to meet with my Dr. in a few months to see if they are working for me or not. I'm sure it will be a lot easier to tell with the other drugs out of my system, so I'm determined to stay clean in that regard! It's just hard to think straight right now, but I have faith that things will get better. I've actually been more active today than the last few days. I'm on day 4 with no sub, and I've read that it usually takes 5 days to get past the worst of it, and then it's just dealing with the cravings. One thing I forgot to mention is that in these past few months I've basically cut all ties with my "straight-edge" friends. I'm not strong enough to talk to them yet, but I hope I can soon and that they'll understand.
There is no where but up from here...You sound like you're on a bumpy road..This crappy time is part of your story..the rest of the story can turn out real nice once the pills are gone....
So much life ahead of ya man....you're at a prime age for some of the best times...i thought i couldnt have fun straight,,,,,,was way wrong...I think i'm more fun now..people tell me i'm different ,,,more fun,,,
Sonrissa makes a good point...there is a lot of experience on this board with that drug....stick around,,,,
Free~
So much life ahead of ya man....you're at a prime age for some of the best times...i thought i couldnt have fun straight,,,,,,was way wrong...I think i'm more fun now..people tell me i'm different ,,,more fun,,,
Sonrissa makes a good point...there is a lot of experience on this board with that drug....stick around,,,,
Free~
Hi! You've certainly used long enough to have some serious rebound depression especially if you had some depression before. Being off the opiates just magnifies what is already there, underlying. It takes a little time, but it will get better. I'd talk to a doc about it though. You were treated for actual depression before this started, so it's a real possibility that you will need treatment again. Don't want you going back to opiates to treat it, so talking to a doc is the best solution to the issue.
Good luck! : )
Good luck! : )
Hi belts, and welcome! I'm sorry I do not have any experience with Suboxone! Lots of people here do, however! Just hang tight, it tends to be a little slow here on the weekends! Someone will be along with advice for you! In the meantime stay strong! Sending you support and prayers! Best wishes, hang in there!
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