Soberity in a pill ?

Question

I won't post exactly what pill I speak of because it doesn't matter what it is called.   I have been flabbergasted by the explanation of a Rehab and a pill a person was involved in.  I Unfortunately have little tolerance for people who are high as a kite , telling me how great their soberity is.  It isn't soberity and this rehab doesn't even require Any other meetings.      My son had food poisoning, from a restraunt .  In the ER in next bed was a man with his brother begging for help with the withdrawals from the pill.      All that time and money spent and so many high people thinking they are going to get through withdrawal without pain.    That will not happen.

dominosarah · Answer

Hi Calamity~  How are things going?

motye51 · Answer

So I went and re-read the original post....what I thought she was stating is that being on the subs means your NOT clean?  I tend to agree with this b/c I have a few people in my N/A meetings that are on subs and quite honestly, when I took the subs, I found it WAY easier to stay off of other opiates.  HOWEVER, if I would have known how hard it was to get off of the subs I would have chosen to w/d off the opiates and go that route. I didn't do the research that I probably should have done....I was looking for a miracle off of the opiates without any kind of pain. I found it....but then it backfired.

TramadolTrap · Answer

Calamity they were not talking about you calling someone a junkie but rather a story of a woman and her son I believe. Hope all is well with you.

Calamity2 · Answer

Excuse me but I never said anyone was Just a junkie" I said his brother was begging for help for his wthdrawal. They couldn't help him because he was clean and had to be dirty to get any help. He had been clean for weeks.

pillguy · Answer

You and I have been through this.  You've read my posts trying to dissuage people from going the suboxone path.  For me the idea that her son in the ER was a legitimate patient and the guy withdrawing was just a junkie rubs me the wrong way.  We spend a fair amount of time here convincing peope that this is a desease.  Then I read "all that time and money spent" like treatment wasnt deserved.  I'm done posting on this thread.  I've said my piece.

Cheers,

pillguy · Answer

Agreed!!  Way over prescribed and the Doctors doing it have way too little training.  I don't want to slander a whole group but there are lots of doctors out there prescribing Suboxone as if its a cash cow.  There are lots of things wrong with how its used.  That's what needs to change.  Not elimiating the drug because its evil.  Motye51, I don't think I used the word "irrational"
:-))  OK, fine , I implied it.  

I've read a lot about this drug.  There's a Mom who had a child that used bupe.  It didn't go well.  She has been all over the Internet talking about the evils of this drug.  The reason I"m as passionate as I am is because I believe this drug can save the lives of people who just can't quit.  I frankly don't care if they are "clean".  I want them to be safe.  Anyone that argues Suboxone is just as lethal as heroin isn't living on the same planet.  And if they do want to get clean I'm willing to help with advice and encouragement through this site

motye51 · Answer

I dont know that i would say its "irrational" to REALLY dislike  claims of miracles in pill form. When i first git off subs i thought they were the devil reincarnated!!! Over time, and as things become clearer, we are able to open up a little bit more to their INTENDED!!!! use. But i think there is a valid point to their being sold as a way out of drug abuse. There really not, still had to w/d, do the work, feel the **** and try to maintain sanity at the same time. There are good points to both arguements! Me personally, i think they're totally over used!

pillguy · Answer

I agree with you on one point.  There is no free lunch getting off opiates.  There will be withdrawal.  That's the brain healing itself.  When folks post here asking if anything be done to reduce them I sometimes what to simply answer, "NO".  As for your crusade again opiate replacement therapy, well, I disagree.  People total cars without being on opiates.  I've actually used the drug you are talking about.  Little to no euphoria.  I don't think you will listen to anything anyone has to say.  Are you under some kind of court order preventing you from naming the drug?  Please go ahead and continue your crusade.  I and others will be here offering a rational discussion of the pro and cons,  For the most part we discourage people from using this drug you won't name.

Cheers

spider6 · Answer

Great post Tony ....I understand.....it's like labelling weather as "bad"......it has no will..it just is...without it having direct interaction.....it just is.....

Calamity.....you do sound flabbergasted....it appears to have really struck a chord.  Unfortch the whole world is looking for a quick fix to their problems and escape or relief from their personal pain.  How one gets to the point of that "brother" in the next bed to your son's are infinitely numbered and diverse.  We all have a story.  Be careful of what causes you so much discomfort for it will one day in the future surely be something that you have to encounter or address.  What we fear and don't understand (and cause us such discomfort) always comes back to give us another opportunity for us to learn something.  

That being said.....I agree that I don't believe taking that pill means your clean....but if it saves your life.....the big Cheese must've had a good reason to offer this to those who were given a choice....to live.  

Good luck.

motye51 · Answer

I can only assume your refering to suboxone or subutex of which you have a valid point. Its overused, over-prescribed, and has been deemed a miracle. Getting off 5he subs was the hardest thing ive ever done in my life!

weaver71 · Answer

Sorry, I read it wrong, it was the man in the bed next to your son. Anyway, I've been studying this a few years, I know most the recovery drugs, as well as most addictive prescription drugs, as well as street drugs. I am moderately aware of the pros and cons of many of them. "The pill name" alludes me, I googled "the pill name and abuse," it just gives me a list of addictive prescription drugs, of which I was already aware. I'll have to give up on this one, I hope you find peace with whatever drug it is that has upset you, maybe it's all of them, I can't really tell. I wish I could help more, as blaming drugs and doctors was a major set back in my recovery the first year. Good luck, keep the faith, getting off drugs is the best decision I have ever followed through on. Focus on what you are for, rather than what you are against is the best advice I have here. Congrats on your progress so far.

Calamity2 · Answer

Not sure who's son you speak of. But use the pill name and abuse in Google. Addicts searching for soberity are being hurt by the thousands not to mention the families continuing to live with a high person driving them around "sober".

weaver71 · Answer

If this is a new drug causing so much destruction, why wouldn't you name it and help us to inform people of its dangers? There are drugs that pass the FDA and are taken off the market. I don't know if the drug you speak of could be one of them, because I have no idea what it is. This is a safe place, you don't have to be so shy or ilusive. I've seen suboxone haters come on here and make very  good points that changed my views, even though I refuse to demonize a drug myself, often good points are brought to my attention by those who disagree with me. I want to be proven wrong about things, so I might find the truth. It's fine if you choose to not divulge this drugs name, but this will likely be a short conversation, and I like to talk and debate, that's just my character.

weaver71 · Answer

Many addicts and those who love an addict like to demonize an inanimate object as the problem. Pain pills are not bad, recovery drugs are not bad, drugs themselves, have no ability to be good or bad. The people using them and the doctors prescribing them, now there is some fault, but not blame, to be recognized and dealt with. My wife has a few glasses of wine a year, my dad drinks 24 beers a day, so it's not the alcohol that has bad judgment or good judgment. Just my opinion.

I've been off pain pills for 3 years, but I would have been dead, without bulrenorphine. I wasn't high as a kite, but upon quitting this recovery drug, I realized I was high, just not nearly as high as I had been. I was able to form a real recovery plan with a drugs help. I read this post and it reminded me of guy marriage. I don't have to decide if it's all right or all wrong, but I do accept it works for some people and I am not the one to say it doesn't work for them. Blanket statements making something good or bad are usually biased or simply wrong. 

There is a time and a place for every purpose under heaven. I am not The Judge, but a mere servant, trying to help others find what works for them. I am not so arrogant to say, "that didn't work for me, so it doesn't work for anyone." I say, "keep trying something else, until you find what works for you."

On the other hand, my bias is from methadone being my drug of choice. Early on in my recovery, I was anti-methadone, and advocated buprenorohine as an alternative, because that's what saved me. As my recovery matured, I realized I was the only real problem I had, the drugs have no will, and they had stolen mine. I blamed doctors for making drugs so easy for addicts to get, but it was my hand that placed the drug and my mouth. I have since seen folks use methadone properly with positive results, though that is usually sever addiction and short term use. Again, it's not the drug, but how it's used.

We can be angry about the system, we can advocate for more research and accountability in the drug world, but to condemn a drug is like condemning a rock, it simply makes no sense, drugs are innocent. 

I think your son will see what I am saying eventually. Try not to feed his anger at things outside his own choices and actions. He is the only thing he actually has control over, and we even lose that in active addiction. Blaming anything else is destructive, so what is he going to do different now that he knows what he does? That's the important question, not what doesn't work and who's to blame?

Calamity2 · Answer

I didn't detail all the facts I know about the experiences people have endured with the pill.   One of the people on this magic pill totaled two cars.  A person can go on the addiction forum and put a pill name in the search box.   Use pill name and the word withdrawals.     

     Don't want to insult anyone .   People  are dying from the pill I'm talking about.   They are just as dead when they overdose on the rehab pill.

pillguy · Answer

help make me and this world better with intolerance.

pillguy · Answer

There's a case to be made for pills like subutex.  Granted, it's NOT sobriety butits it has saved many lives.  I'm not interested in people getting off drugs by dying.  Harm reduction is a real thing, with real lives.  I would suggest you walk the walk that works for you.  Others will walk their walk.   BTW; I was one of those people.  I used a maintenance drug to help me get my act in order.  I spent a year "high as a kite" working on what I needed to do to move toward.  I'm over 5 months sober (real sobriety).  As for tolerance, I'm working on having it for all people as I don't know how to help make me and this works better with intolerance.

Cheers