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Addiction: Substance Abuse Community
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Avatar universal

Spice use

I know someone who there boyfriend is using spice. They have been fighting bout it for weeks now. He has even gotten alittle physical once that I know if with the girlfriend because he couldn't find his spice.  My concern is she has a 3 year old child that lives with them. This couple has only been together for 6 to 7 months. The mother is getting to the point where she is secluding herself from her family. The child would be with family every night during the week while the mother worked now she is completely removing even the baby from her family. I have to wonder if the boyfriend has become controlling. He also smokes pot both of them. I also heard that she has also smoked the spice but not sure if it was just a one time try. So at this point I have to wonder is it safe for this child to even remain in this home????  I have also been told that both these things have been done with the child there. I have tried to talk to the girl about it but she denies it and I know that is probably normal for either a drug user or someone being controlled. I am also concerned  because I have been told that he does have guns within there home. Is this drug bad enough that he could possibly cause harm to this child or either of them.
25 Responses
4113881 tn?1415850276
I'm sorry but in all my years of addiction I'm not familiar with "Spice" Is there another name for it?

"So at this point I have to wonder is it safe for this child to even remain in this home????  I have also been told that both these things have been done with the child there."

If your saying this 3 year old child is being exposed to drug use then no, the child is not safe.

"I have tried to talk to the girl about it but she denies it and I know that is probably normal for either a drug user or someone being controlled."

This is very true....ask her if she is willing to take a U.A. If she gets all crazy and angry....then shes using. (IMO) If she says "sure...lets go"  shes probably clean. (IMO)

"I am also concerned  because I have been told that he does have guns within there home."

Thats bad...is there family you can talk to? Have you considered involving CPS? (child protective services)

"Is this drug bad enough that he could possibly cause harm to this child or either of them. "

Still dont know what "Spice" is?

4113881 tn?1415850276
Ahhhh.....I looked up "Spice" because...well, I just wanted to know.

"Spice" refers to a wide variety of herbal mixtures that produce experiences similar to marijuana (cannabis) and that are marketed as "safe," legal alternatives to that drug. Sold under many names, including K2, fake weed, Yucatan Fire, Skunk, Moon Rocks, and others — and labeled "not for human consumption" — these products contain dried, shredded plant material and chemical additives that are responsible for their psychoactive (mind-altering) effects.

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/spice-synthetic-marijuana
4522800 tn?1470325834
I just pulled it up too. German researching Spice-K2 contains a variety of synthetic cannabinoids which chemical compounds devise to produce marijuana-like effects..high quantity of other synthetics
It had been banned in my countries and was not proboular until 1990. The US is still looking into banning it too!!.
5621112 tn?1371375561
I've heard of people DYING from it, and others who suffered permanent brain damage from it. It should be banned. ITS BAD STUFF!!
Avatar universal
It's sold as incense, or that's the spice I know. It is worse than marijuana, I've seen serious personality change fast with that stuff. I also have never known a spice purist, other drugs have been used by those I've seen. It is not for human consumption, so no studies reveal it's side effects. Formaldehyde is the drying  agent, which is similar to PCP in the brain.  I think you are dealing with poly addicts. The unpredictability makes this an unsafe situation for a child.
Avatar universal
yes it is also known as k2. I have tried to look it up many different ways but it doesn't really give to much info about if they could harm other people. and yes I have talked with CPS but I did not give no names at the time , they did suggest I turn it in because they said it was a very unpredictable drug. before I turn it in I need to make sure I have all the info right and that I make the right choice. this is my daughter and  as I said before she has a 3 year old my granddaughter and if  I turn it in I wont be able to see my granddaughter at all. my concern is they go in there and not be able to find the stuff . then that's it she is left in that home. so many factors they go in and do find something then I am responsible for my daughter going to jail. but I don't know what else to do. she will not listen. when I asked her bout her boyfriend using it she said he hasn't used it for 2 weeks now but I know that not true. she was just crying to someone last weekend about how he is so immune to it that he is mad all the time. to me someone who gets angry when they cant find there drugs there is no way they can just stop just like that. I have some family members tell me not to turn her in but at the same time others tell me I need to do whats right for that baby. is this drug really that bad?????
5621112 tn?1371375561
Yes, it's that bad. You need to remember your grandchild's life is at risk anytime that her caretakers are getting high. Even if the baby is not physically be "harmed", let's face it, people who are high  are not doing what is in the best interest of the child. At best she is probably not getting the attention, affection, and stimulation a child needs every day.  It is one of the hardest decisions you will make. I watched my sister go through it for years. And  then my nephew was left in care of my great nephew, and the neighbors called police because they heard the baby crying for over 2 hours.  When they got  there, my nephew had passed out in the bathroom and was bleeding from his head, and the baby was wrapped up in the seatbelt on the highchair almost hung because he had tried to get out because that is where my idiot nephew left him all day. Soaking wet, dirty diaper, filthy. Thank God the neighbors called or my great nephew may have died.  That was the day my sister finally listened to me and cut him off completely.  The babies mom almost went to jail for leaving my nephew with the baby.  So, remember this, YOUR DAUGHTER, HER BOYFRIEND ARE ADULTS, they are making their choices.  The BABY has no voice if you don't give her one.  Are you in a position to care for your grand child for a while? If the baby gets taken by CPS they prefer to keep the child in the family if there is a responsible relative to place her with.  Please also look into Alanon. I tried to get my sister to go and she himmed and hawwed for years. After that incident she went and then wished she had gone years before.  The people there are going through the same thing you are. Many have much experience and can help you with this difficult decision. But please be a voice for that baby somehow.  God bless you, it truly is a horrible position to be in.
Avatar universal
That's right, you have to get your facts straight. The laws are so confusing. It's not illegal to own spice, it sells for $3 in a gas station I know about. If they are caught with it, then what. They will know to be more sneaky. Your best bet is watch for neglect and report that. It's hard to actually busy someone for spice. I'm sure other drugs are involved, but you need to be sure. They are already cautious of you for mentioning it. I am an opiate addict, I bought pills from people sitting around a table smoking that stuff. One time, half the table was smoking marijuana, the other half smoked spice. That was enough for me not to do it, but they where on probation, so they couldn't smoke marijuana. The spice caused a dulling of intelligence and knodding, like opiates. I fear you will have to surprise them, or you may have a grandchild on the run. Try to call a child advocate, most areas have legal services available for kids in need. Ask them what law they need to be caught breaking in your area. CPS in our area love to take kids away, we have the child abuse in Califirnia. Even they would not take a child for spades ion of incense, before it was illegal to sell here. I'm sorry you are going through this. God bless you for caring.
495284 tn?1333894042
COMMUNITY LEADER
Spice is very dangerous and deadly.  Many manic episodes have been reported also.  It is illegal here in my state now.  If you feel this child is in danger please call the authorities.  I wouldnt think twice if it was me.
480448 tn?1426948538
I agree you need to intervene on behalf of the child.  CPS will do an investigation.  A substance doesn't have to be illegal for it to be an issue with abuse around a child.  Look at alcohol.  It's good that the CYS workers are aware of how bad this drug is...it's getting banned in more and more states.  My dear friend's daughter slit her own throat while on it and almost died (sorry to be graphic).  After that, my friend single handedly pushed for the banning and seizure of the drug in our country (successfully).

You can ask that you remain an annonymous reporter.  That way, if CPS cannot nail anything down, you can still be involved, looking out for the baby.  Of course they will suspect you, but you can still deny deny.

I would recommend filing a report ASAP.
Avatar universal
I couldn't get this post off my mind. After further consideration, I agree with reporting it now. Not sure how I feel about lying about doing it, that's a personal choice, but an official record would help in the long run. Is anyone else concerned, two reports would be great? Keep us posted, I can't get that child out of my thoughts.
Avatar universal
Spice is one of the newer designer drugs it is ileagle  in many states and is a dangerous drug it is not like pot although it looks lke it somewhat it is a synthetic substitute please encourage your friends to get help b/4 something bad happens......Gnarly  
242912 tn?1402543492
I, too, have been thinking of your post.  "Is this drug really that bad?????", you ask?

Check out the MANY disturbing videos on YouTube.

I wish you the best...
Avatar universal
It is ileagle in our state. My daughter ha sbeen having health issues for over a month now an going to the dr. had blood work an CT but nothing she has passed out twice now for no reason. when she is suppost to come over an visit with us she always calls up an says she not feelen well so we cant sit her down an talk to her. I have a lot of concerns is she doing it or is he somehow giving it to her. I threatened her to turn them in last week because of things going on. so if I do she will know because of that. I do not wanta see my daughter go to jail but at the same time I am worried bout my granddaughter. the weekend is almost over so it is coming time that I need to make a decision.  
Avatar universal
It sounds like she is doing it too. It sound like you are out of options. Something needs to change, she will thank you someday, even if she goes to jail.
480448 tn?1426948538
It sounds like she is doing it too. It sound like you are out of options. Something needs to change, she will thank you someday, even if she goes to jail.

Very true...I agree completely.

I know it's an impossible situation to be in, but the safety of that child has to be number 1 priority.

I really hope it works out!!
Avatar universal
  Is it easy to get addicted to this stuff? I know they smoke weed. I know has started doing this stuff at least over a month ago. she has cried to her family about how he would get angry. now she telling us he hasn't done it for 2 weeks. but just a week ago she was crying to another family member bout his anger. would it be that easy to just stop doing it? if I contact CPS I have to know that this is still going on an is still in the home. because I only have 1 chance at this. if it isn't done right then I will not see my granddaughter and she will still be in that home. if it is something like pot then I would think if he couldn't get his weed then he would turn to that to get his r there high. I no nothing about drugs so I don't know how they work?
480448 tn?1426948538
This substance is addictive.  The anger your daughter reports is typical with K2 use.  People have known to become psychotic and violent on K2.

There's not a ton of info out there, but I found these:

http://www.drugfree.org/drug-guide/k2-spice

http://www.drugcheck.com/dc_info-k2-spice.html

I understand your concerns completely.  CYS should do a comprehensive investigation, but of course there are no guarantees that they will find against your daughter or her BF.  
Avatar universal
There is a possibility he is still having symptoms from spice, but drug use is a symptom of other issues. If he quit and nothing more, he will continue to have personality and behavior problems. Do you know anybody who is close to them that you could talk to?
Avatar universal
No I do not... they do not have any friends over and they only go to his moms at times and I cant talk to her cause she will tell them what I am saying then I wont know anything when it comes to this child. she had asked me yesterday to text her boyfriend and tell him we didn't hate him and that we will change.... I don't understand what she wants us to change... I old her we could come over last night and sit down and talk but she made up an excuse why they couldn't. I said I will not text him to talk to him that way. I wont play those games. I was aloud to pick my granddaughter up tonight for the night and keep her tomorrow then they will pick her up Tuesday morning and that's all we get her for the week. this baby don't understand after seeing her grandparents every day of her life why it just stopped. we had her every night now we are only aloud 2 nights of watching her while her mom works. when I picked her up tonight I had to stay outside my daughter called me 3 times before I got there to make sure I told her when I almost get there. I asked her why I wasn't aloud to come in an get her she said her house wasn't clean when I told her that her apartment never was either when  she had that she then said well he sitten in his underwear and she didn't wanta tell him to put clothes on.. I also asked her why I had to tell him we would change she said cause we always over ride what she says with her daughter. the only thing we did was set her a dr apt cause she had been runnen over 102 temp for 3 days same thing her and I had always done in the past. she is sick again today passed out again last night. I find it hard to believe with his behavior and her sickness that this has stopped. how long does this stuff stay in your system for it to show up if they were to be tested for it.
Avatar universal
It all sounds suspicious. They are hiding something. Turning the table to your falts is another sign of active addiction. If she is passing out and getting sick, but doesn't want to see a doctor to find out why, she knows why. You may be saving her life by being "the bad guy." If she doesn't open up, it's time to protect the baby. You have nothing to apologize for. If anything, Text him the time and address of an NA meeting, no messege, just the info.  How is the baby doing, other than confused?
Avatar universal
the baby is doing good. she is running around playing. she has seen the dr, has had blood work an ct scan. i don't know what going on. maybe she knows it wont show up and don't know this stuff can cause this or if he is putting it in the weed i know she smokes. but maybe she don't know. there are so many possibilities. i just know bout what he has been doing for while now and once i started asking around is when i was finding out other stuff from 1 other person. does anyone know how long you have to test if it in your system? is it days or hours. i know i have to decide soon weekend is over if he doing it around the baby would it be in her system?
4113881 tn?1415850276
Most sensitive K2/Spice test on the market — 25 ng/mL cutoff

Express Diagnostics is excited to offer the DrugCheck® dip urine test for K2 or “Spice” with a cutoff of 25 ng/mL, the lowest cutoff for synthetic marijuana on the market. The DrugCheck K2/Spice Test is available in multi-panel cup and dip, as well as single test strip or dip cassette.

http://www.drugcheck.com/dc_k2-spice.html

_______________________________________________________

We really do not know a lot about how K2 works and stays in the body.

But we do know that the length of time that K2 stays in your system depends on which synthetic cannabinoids are in the mixture.  For example, JWH-018 and JWH-073 can be detected up to 72 hours after ingestion.  But keep in mind that K2 weed dangers are significant. Here, we review common synthetic cannabinoids which are used in K2, and their properties. We invite your questions, comments and feedback at the end.

http://drug.addictionblog.org/how-long-does-k2-stay-in-your-system/
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"....laboratory testing websites claim to be able to test for Spice in urine for 2-3 days after use.  And the duration of Spice in the system is about 3 days.  How long Spice stays in the blood and hair, though, is less apparent."


Types of Spice drug tests

Currently, Spice is detected using special urine tests which look for the synthetic substances typically used in various brands of the drug. The list includes HU-210, JWH-018, JWH-073, and CP-47,497.

However, these tests are not part of any routine labs. Usually, a test for Spice will only be ordered if there’s some reason to suspect a person has used the drug. For example, if a soldier’s commanding officer found some evidence of the drug in his or her possession. Or if your employer or probation office specifically wants to know if you have been using “legal herb” as a marijuana substitute.

http://drug.addictionblog.org/does-spice-show-up-on-drug-tests/
4113881 tn?1415850276
Here’s a couple of spice drug tests you can order online which are able to test for various compositions and variations of spice…

The Devon Medical K2 Test Kit

This spice test kit can pick up four different variants of spice. This particular test kit provides laboratory results – the entire kit comes with shipping materials, chain of custody papers and instructions, and a urine vial with a seal and a label. After collecting the urine, you send it off to the lab and you are emailed the results.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005HQJZTY/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B005HQJZTY&linkCode=as2&tag=spiceaddictionsupport-20
________________________________________________________
The USAINTEL Spice Test Kit

The USAINTEL test says that it detects up to nine different compounds of Spice, and the results are instant. The test is of the variety that you collect the urine and dip a card in the cup to read the results. It takes five minutes for the results to come back. The test only costs about 30 dollars and you get five dip-cards. It is perfect for the workplace; this rapid spice test can detect spice for up to 72 hours after use. Bear in mind that due to body chemistry there may be more or less time required to pick up an accurate result so do your homework if you suspect you’ve waited too long.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0092TGRBG/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0092TGRBG&linkCode=as2&tag=spiceaddictionsupport-20
_________________________________________________________

Here is a link to a Spice Addiction Support Group

http://spiceaddictionsupport.org/spice-drug-tests-provide-peace-of-mind/
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495284 tn?1333894042
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