Suboxone, new patient

[flguyinpain]

Earlier today I posted a note that mentioned how good I felt being off the ROXY 30's for 3 days, and on Subx.... and I still feel good. I am happy that I am off the ROXY's.... and most of all, not spending the kind of money I was doing 8-10 a day.

HOWEVER>>>> (there always is one isn't there?!).... I have been doing some reading on this "wonder drug" that I am now on..,.. and I feel more and more depressed about it.

From the terrible withdrawl symptoms, to people that have posted about taking this for months even years, I honestly feel that I have traded a "legal" drug for another one.... one addiction for another. Whats the point?

I am also concered about how loing I am on this stuff.... and trying to get off it as soon as possible.

Can anyone give me some "positive" news about SUBX and how it has helped them..... I have gotten enough of the negative today already.

I like the truth.... dont be conufused about that... and I know this is not going to be a walk in the park... but I almost feel as though I should have spent the money I spent on SUBX and goten a bunch of ROXY's and weened myself off.

thanks.

[Lynn79]

The problem for me is that I am NOT happy with my state.  I don't feel okay.  I wake up in the morning, and if I don't take my Sub right away, I feel anxious and cannot function.  After taking only 2 mgs, I feel it kick in, and at work I can do ANYTHING!  It feels too good.  I feel like I did on Vicodin without the overly euphoric feeling, but there is definitely euphoria there.  Some days, if I don't spit out just the right amount (because what works for me is just slightly less than 2 mgs) I feel nauseus for hours and have to sit at my desk like a zombie or lay in my car.  I come home at night, and begin to feel anxious just sitting and watching television with my roomate.  I physically feel it wear off and sometimes I can't sleep.  My entire life, and everything I feel, revolves around this medication.  That is what I wanted to be rid of when I was addicted to Vicodin.  Now I have a new addiction that will be 10 times worse to quit.  The above things are just the basic problems.  There are other health issues, such as (not to be graphic, but it needs mentioning...) feeling like my liver is failing every time I go to the bathroom.  Feeling sick in that way.  Stomach problems and cramping.  My body just feels sick, like it wants to reject this drug but I am forcing it into my system anyway.  I am tired.  I want to be free.  I wish I ran the other way when I heard that you could stay on this medication for "as long as you need to."  No one tells you that when you want to have a baby and start a family, that you will have to get through the worst pain of your life first, by withdrawaling.  I keep putting it off because I'm scared of how it will feel to not be on a drug for the first time in 10 years.  Will I be there somewhere?  Some version of my old self?  Will I find it again?  I hear the horror stories of depression and sadness, and the feeling that hits you when you realize you will never again feel the way you felt when you were taking those freakin pills.  It is reality.  It is time for me to join it... I know this.  I also know that the sooner I begin the process, the sooner my body can start to heal itself.  I am just afraid of what waits for me when the false layers I have created are stripped away, and I'm left with just... me.

[hawaiimed]

I think that Lynn79 is experiencing what so many do, including me; getting "sick" from long term sub use.
Mercedes is right to degree; there are many who have gotten off sub successfully as mentioned by figuyinpain.
I have researched sub  forums a lot in the last few days and find there are some success stories out there.
But there a many not so happy stories.
It's different for individuals.
That said, best to play it safe.
Dont go long term unless you absolutely have to.

[Mercedes175]

I have a very good friend who has been on sub for 3 years and she is definitly sober.  It is  ALL POSITIVE.   Basically, for her, in her situation her receptors were damaged so badly over her drug use that she may be on sub the rest of her life.  Her internist is very, very good..has a great reputation so I personally don't listen to other people. If you are doing good on that drug...go for it.  You are happy.  In my friends situation, she has not told anyone...other than me and her internist.   She attends regular meetings, sees her internist regularly is very honest and is working the steps of recovery.  She is amazing.

I dont judge her at all as the sub is her maintenance.  It does not give her a high..just stabelizes her and the alternative to taking the opiates would definitly send her into a spiral of addiction all over again.

I am proud of her.

the more I read these types of boards I am convinced some times these boards create a paranoia that is underserving.  You and you alone should be happy with your state. I even think the withdrawals are much worse when we read others stories..of course they tell you about they feel like *&YU, etc.  but everyone is different and everyone has different tolerances. I personally feel if you are in good shape, have a good support system in place even withdrwals don't have to be a night mare.

But the main thing is I believe that the sub is a good thing ..so if your happy..keep it up.

[Lynn79]

Sorry for the delayed comment, I guess I havn't been on in a while.  I don't know, everything I've heard so far is that Sub withdrawal, after long term use, is ten times worse than the original DOC.  But I really don't know from personal experience.  It's just been so freakin long with the Sub and I am really starting to feel sick from it.  I should have used it short term, for getting through the Vic withdrawal and then tapering.  I just meant that if I can't quit the Sub, I am going to try going back to Vicodin and using the Sub as it should have been used in the first place.  The way I feel right now cannot get any worse, and I have nothing but hope that it can only get better.

[Nattefrost]

If you go back to vicodin for a week, wont you go into a worse withdrawl? I was on subs for over 6 months and thats long enough to get addicted i guess cause I tapered to a tiny piece a day and then ran out (decided I didnt need them anymore) and went into w/d but it wasnt the worst. Just like a horrible flu and ten days later I was fine. Definately NOT easy, though, just saying the w/d's from oxys or vikes should be worse.

[Lynn79]

Sub is definitely the way to go, and I wish I had known the simple biology and chemistry of it sooner.  Sub is a partial agonist, so it is extremely useful for detoxing.  But once you stay on it too long, it becomes a stronger addiction than what you had before.  You have to figure out the withdrawal time of the Roxys, like how long you would be suffering if you were to just quit.  Use Suboxone, at the smallest dose possible to avoid feeling like ****, for that long.  Then begin tapering.  The key is to use it for long enough to get the Roxys out of your system, but not long enough for your body to get used to it.  I have heard nothing but positive outcomes from people on short-term plans.  I have been on Sub for so long that I am seriously considering going back to Vicodin for a week and then quitting.  Sub is a horrible way of life after using it longer than a year, and it has become my crutch.  All because I wanted to avoid the inevitable withdrawal feelings.  Like everyone else said, getting clean is not 100% pain free, and we have to be willing to suffer a little.

[A_Bomb]

Here is a positive Suboxone experience for ya. I was using about three eightballs a day of black tar heroin for two years straight. eventually I lost my job ran out of money etc. Had to go to a county detox. they give you one 8mg suboxone a day for like 5 days, and then kick you out basically. I stayed clean for three years afterwards. there was some discomfort but was WAAAAAAAAAAAAYY easier then kicking without.

[ochooked]

I used Sub to kick a 14 year 140 mg/day Oxy addiction.  I tapered my Oxy down to only 70 mg/day and then switched to Sub -started at 2 mg twice a day and tapered to only a crumb -- went through horrible W/D's.  Question is:  "Would I do it again?"  Yes, in a heartbeat -- it got me clean.  However knowing what I do now, I would have continued to taper my Oxycodone and not gotten on sub.  Listen, no matter which way you choose to get off the dope - do it.  Now, for recommendations ---  Again from my perspective - I would use Sub for no more than 15 days -- use only the smallest amount you can get by with -- do not blindly follow doctors orders --- let your own body tell you how much Sub you need and begin tapering immediately --- you CAN do this ---  W/D's are not easy - and I was looking for the painless way to W/D -- it isn't there -- we all have some suffering to do when getting clean --- be willing to do it ---  Just get a case of the Flu -- tell those who you do not want to know your business -- "The Flu"  Then get help from your significant other, tell a close friend --- biggest thing to do is tell you supplier -- in my case, my doctor -- hardest thing I did - but the smartest --- you MUST slam every door -- don't leave one open for that "just in case I change my mind" moment -- you may weaken and actually start using again.  Keep  positive --- All the best.

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

It seems like duration is a big one....try to do the 21 day plan. It also seems like the end taper needs to go slow - excellent advice to drop to 1/2 and then 1/4 and finally do the 1/4 every other day  - - easy out.....and good luck with everything ....for what its worth.- the methadone withdrawal is probably worse than sub withdrawal...........time will tell if you would have been better tapering the Roxy's - - the end justifies the means with this one. You are better off having the roxy's behind you.

[refusingbondage]

Hey there -- im with Cattalina and also cannot give you the positive experience you are looking for.  I was actually on suboxone for over two years so I didnt go the short term treatment route -- there are some people on here who have but what I can say is yes I totally agree that short term is the way to go.  I walk a fine line discussing subs with people who are on it and who its helping.  Being on subs is pretty good when your coming out of a severe drug problem - one dose a day, etc its feels great but I can tell you from very personal nighmarish experience that you do indeed become very addicted to subooxne. Its strength and hold on you will surprise many.  Cattalina has given some very good advice -- short term in my opinion is the way to go. I would not wish long term sub detox on my very worst enemy.  However used appropriately and for a short amount of time, it can be useful.  There is no easy way - withdrawal happens.  Its part of getting clean.  You can get through it though.  One thing I think important to mention re subs is cutting yourself down to the lowest possible dosage.  I started at 18mgs and spent many years trying to wean down eventually to 1mg where I jumped off.  For short term taper start weaning and get down to a literaly crumb of suboxone  - maybe every other day or so before you jump.  Hopefully someone will be by soon to help with a quick taper method.  Unfortunately most docs do not believe in a quick taper so I dont know if you will get help there.  I want to also say that the physical is not the hardest and i know that sounds crazy now but once the pain of physical w/d is over the very difficult part of staying clean begins.  Support is so important.  Keep posting.  This site, for me has been my support.  Best of luck to you.  

[Nattefrost]

I was on subs for 6 months and tapered a little too fast to a tiny piece a day and when i ran out I  went into withdrawl. Thought it was the flu at first. 11 days later im back to normal. But I heard that wd from the subs are much better(?) than wd from the oxys. Im not a doc but maybe if you taper very slowly and listen to your doc (like i DID NOT) you can taper to nothing with no wd's. I tapered much quicker than he told me to and keep in mind i was taking 25-30 oxys a day before the subs. but like I said the wd's from the subs wasnt good, but I was able to go to work and everything (very sluggishly) and 11 days later normal. Good luck in however you do it and like everybody on this site told me-stay positive.

[cattalina]

I can't give you a positive personal experience with sub that you want... But I can tell you that most people do well with the sub on a 21 day taper plan. Refusing bondage and ochooked did relatively short plans, (I think but I'm not 100%) so I'm sure they'd be able to help you out with a plan. Or at least tell you their stoy. Do a search on MedHelp for post with sub in it, there's TONS of info on this site. Mostly bad tho - so be prepared! Suboxone is definitely not a 'wonder drug' like so many call it! There's no 'easy way' to do this - now that you're on the sub there's no point in going back to the roxys. Set up a taper plan and stick to it, you'll be fine. Keep posting & GL