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Addiction: Substance Abuse Community
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267243 tn?1189759435

Thoughts on legitimate oc and recent crackdowns?

I am aware I might have a kidnapper-empathy complex, but my dealer was not a bad woman. She has cancer and a proven chronic nerve condition and cannot work. Most likely she will not live long (even though she's maybe 40.) ...Plus she is divorced and has a kid. Luckily she is on longterm disability with health insurance.

She only sold to two people, including me, See she mainly had scripts for Norco's, and for her they worked better than oc (bc she was worried about being high in front of her kids.) Still she was definitely addicted though...she had to be considering her condition.

Anyway, I got them from her...if you read my story, it was VERY occasionally for a long time (every other week or so without true withdrawal.)

In the last few months when it was a problem, she started yelling at me, in fact she only gave them knowing I would get sick, and it would come with a lecture including her crying that she only wanted to help. When I called and told her I quit, she was ecstatic and said I'm cutoff officially... and even offered to help (legally...just advice)

BTW -The other person was immediately cutoff too bc of her conscience and the fact that he well, had backup

Anyway,  soon after this, her insurance stopped covering oc's, (presumably bc people like me.) I went with her once: a month's supply of 80s from Walgreens was around $2,000 (I can't even imagine walking out of there with a script that expensive!!!)

Now the poor woman needs medication but refuses to sell again because she got me hooked. I worry about her for her legitimate health reasons but have been afraid to call just bc of the association.

Anyway  word on the street is that oc's are becoming more plentiful than ever since Insurance companies are dropping and people prescribed them usually cannot work; thus many who normally would not started selling as a means for survival..

Why the heck is it that expensive? Heck, generics are even out now.

There are many upsetting permutations to this problem, to me including a VERY blurred distinction on what is legal and what is not (I'm sorry but coming out of Walgreens with $2K of oc is as sketchy to me as anything else.)

Oh and I mentioned this on another thread: this evil doctor over-prescribed oc to the point where he had four od's in a year! ...

....what do you guys think?

Again, I'm fully aware that my support for my dealer may still be a psychological complex, but I truly care and worry for her and her family.
176 Responses
267243 tn?1189759435
Crud, seeing zero answers is making me think that this might not be the place to mention this. I was thinking AA type things where people tell their stories; however, people in withdrawal do not want to see these kinds of stories.

...No matter how sociologically interesting...

Moderators, should this be deleted or moved somewhere else? Please feel free to do so and I will not be offended.

I jumped in way too fast because I'm so excited to talk to people that truly understand (and are DEAD serious about quitting like myself) I need to slow down and learn the ropes a little betterl
Avatar universal
honey, i just didn't understand the question.... although i'm sorry for your friend.
Avatar universal
Hello and welcome,

But  also have to say I have no clue what your looking for with this post.........

not ignoring you just don't understand...........
228686 tn?1211558307
No, you've just got to give us time. It's Labor Day Monday, and this is a posting board (not chat). Sometimes it takes hours before we get back to each other!  I only check in twice a day myself for a bit right now, not able to spend more time. It's that annoying thing...what's it called? Life! What a pain it is! :)

Seriously, I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling sympathy and concern for this person. She sounds like a friend. She obviously doesn't fit the classic description of the evil dealer hanging out outside preschools trying to hook kids with free samples (who does???)

She's a person with an addiction, just like you, and needs help, just like you do. Whether she needs the medication is irrelevant, she's got the classic problems that come with that addiction. Selling meds, being cut off, facing pain from illness, pain from withdrawal. Try to stop thinking of her as your dealer, and just as a friend (assuming she is) and that alone may help the situation.

As to the cost of medications, well... they charge as much as the market will bear. The costs are so high now in part because of things like covering possible lawsuits, DEA fines, etc... all this jacks up the price of a medication. With the climate being what it is (very hostile), the increases reflect everything negative that goes with that.

You do, however, have to remember that she knew what she was getting into when she started selling her scripts. Nice person or not, she did create this situation (whether it was thrust wrongly on her or not). She sounds like she's trying to be responsible about dealing with the outcome. Just your support as a friend should be enough for now. It's a situation she has to work through herself. Unless you can offer advice that supports her quitting, or how to get her prescriptions legitimately, I'm sure that will make her happy if she is your friend.
267243 tn?1189759435
Thanks! You got my points basically. Anout the woman, the one I blame is the shady guy that brought me to her all the time and shot it up while I snorted (I proudly have untouched brains.) ...He's in jail now and I have to say he belongs there.

I'll be concise: do you think the pharmaceutical situation in America will change soon (especially with that new act in place?)

Has anyone looked up how many people *really* use oc's legitimately? For instance, the oc Wikipedia entry is almost entirely devoted to addiction...though technically anyone who takes it becomes addicted (which brings up other ethical issues.

Finally, Has anyone else noticed more oc around since insurance plans are dropping oc thus forcing people to sell some to pay their bill? (I saw it before I quit four months ago.)

Hopefully I'm getting better posting shorter posts...promise I'll keep trying!
228686 tn?1211558307
Well, it's complicated. There's been a change in how pain is viewed in this country (world!). Once it was viewed as a necessary part of healing. Now, pain is considered to be something to be avoided at all costs.
Prescription opiate use is up 900% from a year or two ago. I'm not sure how many people that is, but it's in the millions and it's increasing exponentially every year. How many are legitimate? Depends on who's answering.
Plus, alot of these people are being put on methadone as an answer to long term pain management. So there's an overall attitude of hostility towards people on pain medication for long term usage.

I'm not sure what new act you're referring to, which one is it? But this situation will only get worse until everyday people along with the health care industry begin to change their attitude towards pain managemant and addiction.

As to it being around more...you mean street sales? That I'm not sure. Statistics on street sales are almost never reliable or representative.
Avatar universal
t....h...i...n....k...
Avatar universal
So what your saying is the people who introduced me to people selling drugs are the true bad guys........thats crazy...........

all drugs have a medical purpose of some kind its the people who abuse them........

not just in the medical world but in the world as we know there are the have and the have nots........
its always been about the money..........
267243 tn?1189759435
Wow! That was one of my worst posts ever! Although my primary talents are math, science, and engineering (I'm a professional engineer) I have always (until that post!) been able to express my thoughts and feelings in a cogent manner.

I posted that from my new iPhone, and while the error correction is great at times, sometimes it automatically inserts an unintended word. It's because of the error correction on the flat screen. Compare each letter of "Brains" to "Veins" on your keyboard and notice that most of the letters are next to each other...the iPhone tries to correct mistypes for you however it is somewhat erroneous.

Also I could not proofread because someone needed to use the phone.

Most importantly I want to stress this phrase: "(I proudly have untouched brains.)"

This was NOT a part of myself trying to nullify a lie. I AM very proud of myself that I have never stuck a needle in me. Although most people would say that is not a big deal, I have been in countless parties with several to dozens of people all shooting up except me.

Also I need to say that I am sober. I was the designated driver last night and decided the best way to go back from a sleep-all-day schedule (long story) to a normal 9-5 work schedule is to pull an all nighter (I quit benzos too.) I have been sipping on a single beer all afternoon but am obviously posting with an uncharacteristically aimless stream-of-consciousness style.

I really want to make a good impression as already have a good impression of a lot of you. I hope to be here often. I know you will see a better me.

(For instance, aside from the rambling, the mis-spellings, and the incorrect sentence structures, this thread included too many topics that should have been broken out in separate conversations.)
Avatar universal
nah honey, that's not what i meant.  i actually posted on the wrong thread... sorry!
267243 tn?1189759435
No, it's more the fact that he was supposedly a friend and consciously egged me on to drive him to the spot (the guy had no license nor car) and do it with him.

Over time he tried to convince me to take more at a time.
Heck, he even wanted to teach me how to shoot up (I refused that offer!)
In addition he constantly asked for bonus 40s for the hookup.. In fact, he even lied about the price each for a year.

I should note that I have an excellent job and he was jobless. I know, every other friend said I was an idiot, but his trap was getting me addicted thus doing anything (including bonuses for him) to get it.

He's in jail now...he should be in jail (for many other reasons too.)

When I met the actual woman, she still sold it, but only to him (he used to work with her, was kicked out, and she let him stay with him for a few months.) She only sold to him because my "friend" was already addicted to H and she wanted him to do oc instead.

Again, still she was the supplier. That should be end-of-story.

And in answer to your last comment: I was curious if anyone tried to do a study to determine the percentage of oc's being cut up and abused relative to those being used for legitimate purposes. For a multitude of reasons (including bias) this may be impossible to determine; however, usually an expert can get close with what's called a "Fermi Number." (...For instance, I'm happy just knowing if legitimate use is still well above 50%?)
225213 tn?1213738290
Maybe the moral of the story is that good people sometimes make bad choices.  Your supplier sounds like an addict with a conscience.  Imagine what it must be like to live in her head.
Thats one reason I got clean, too much conscience, felt guilty for what I was doing and all I saw going on around me that I did nothing about.

The supplier sounds nice but still, the law doesnt care if a lawbreaker is nice or has a good reason for breaking a law.   Jail cell is just as hard.

Avatar universal
hand guns have been arugued having no legit purpose........

because some people abuse hand guns should we bann them...........

oxycotins are pain meds for very severe pain........just because others abuse them does not mean that they should be banned either.......
228686 tn?1211558307
Ugh, I've tried the phone thing. Gave it up, no patience for button pushing. Takes you ten minutes to write "have a nice day". Don't have the patience

Well, perhaps your right about him, although you'd be surprised to know he probably didn't think consciously past your giving him a free ride. Addicts are notorious for "not thinking or planning" past getting what they need for the moment.

Regardless, your best path now is to forget him. If you're just rambling, that's fine. But if you're giving him more thought than the comment here, that kind of obsessive thinking will get in the way of what you need to do.
Like the story of the man who was obsessed with time, spent his whole life trying to analyze it, quantify it, and control it. Keep it from slipping through his fingers.
He woke up one day to find he was old, on his death bed, and had wasted his whole life obsessing on time, instead of spending it wisely.
.

267243 tn?1189759435
Actually I have almost completely forgotten him. In fact I'm sad to say that I think he belongs to be in jail. I'm just reminiscing how I got to this point now that I found this forum.

I am really lucky to have some close REAL friends  that don't use and have my back. Unfortunately they just can't empathize. For instance, one of my friends last night broke some suppressed memories about his sister that died when she was 20 and he was 10.  My best friend and I did everything possible to console him, but we had to be upfront that I cannot imagine as I have not gone through something that painful.

Another example, I just had a 1.5 hour IM just now with an old friend that we constantly worried about. He had a wife and kid and became deep into crack. They left him and we feared he would die. About five years ago he became clean. Since then he has been and has moved back to his home with his wife and daughter. But even he didn't know much about Suboxone.

Now that I'm free, I realize how phony those dope-friends were. They were your best friend (when not noding off :) but in the end they didn't give a ****. So I don't think about them and I don't want to think about them nor hang with them.
267243 tn?1189759435
Wow interesting way of thinking about it. I think you hit the nail on the head. I couldn't hate her because she reminds me of my mom in that she naturally cares for and wants to help everyone she encounters. Unfortunately it is to a fault like any extreme (for example, looking back I was way too nice giving lines of oc to those supposed friends every time, even when they never returned the favor.)

One thing though: I believe she needed medication; she said even as a kid she has some condition that required constant pain medication. Still, therein lies the philosophy that although controlled, it still is an addiction.

PS -I also don't think about her much except that I owe her a call to tell her how I'm doing and am scared because of the association (although trust me, she will NOT let me have anything now, she said so many times. I believe she cares that much. However, I almost don't want to see that whole neighborhood again)
Avatar universal
you are hysterically    f.....u....n....n......y.    TX
Avatar universal
No, it's more the fact that he was supposedly a friend and consciously egged me on to drive him to the spot (the guy had no license nor car) and do it with him.

Well now you know it wrong now so have you dumped his friendship?
Avatar universal
well i am sorry but i think handguns should be illegal...but thats a whole other issue beachtowel....LOL!
Avatar universal
yet again something we have in common..i also got my percs, oxys and methadone from an ABSOLUTELY wonderful woman, i really miss her...she was forced to do the same thing with her drugs...sell them to survive, only had 3 people she would sell to...numerous times she was close to tears and blaming herself for my addiction...i told her repeatedly that i was an addict way before she started selling them to me... and i hope i was able to convince her to not blame herself for my addiction because she is no longer here...she passed away and i miss her friendship more than anything...one of the most beautiful people i have ever met...she is missed by this entire town, truly...
256169 tn?1191688915
If you had ever been in a situation where a handgun saved your life and your home, perhaps you would not be so against them....It does seem that most folks that are against handguns have never touched or even seen a real one up close, other than a movie.  The hand guns don't kill anyone, the people do, any more than the oxycontins don't kills anyone, the people that abuse them do.  .And you're also right that its a subject for another time and place
Avatar universal
As far as the oxycontin goes, I've wondered about addiction--anyone who uses frequently, whether for pain or fun, gets addicted but some of us start going hog wild and others are able to stay at the prescribed dose, why is that?  It's like the definition of crazy--watching oneself go out of control and being unable to stop.
256169 tn?1191688915
I understand your comment.  I have only been prescribed oxycontin a few times and these few times I have taken it as per directions.  I each tablet each 12 hours or so.  The closest I have come to abusing oxy is taking it at 10 hours instead of 12 at night so itdoes not keep me up.  I did cut one in half once, but it was at the end of the script and it worked fine to do it that way as a taper down.

I hear that folks crush the oxy and either short or inject it, which is certainly not what it is designed for......I use it for pain and have never felt any more pleasure than the pleasure of being comfortable and not hurting......If a person takes it to get high, the potential for that is there and I don't really understand it either.  One could die from crushing an 80 mg oxy and doing it all at one time, particularly if they were opiate naive.
228686 tn?1211558307
Handguns don't kill people....hand guns kill hand guns...no wait, that's wrong. People kill handguns? Something like that. I never really cared to much about the issue...although I've yet to meet someone who could explain the need for an AK47 for "home protection" or "hunting purposes". Maybe everyone should carry swords instead. They're big, obvious, and you can't hide them. That way you'd know who to avoid on site.

Little Lai, it's funny, there's a strong belief of "people, places things", and you're right to avoid them, especially at first. But I think we carry "people places things" inside us wherever we go.
Tzlady pointed out that you had a mother figure in this woman, and you agreed. If she was a genuine friend, perhaps you can start over. Just be aware that if you go there in "obvious pain", her desire to see you "not suffering" could start of f what happened before what happened before.
     You'll have to be sure to "be strong" and not allow any weakness of yours to cause her to do something neither of you want to out of sympathy. Co-dependent relationships are often the worst thing to addiction.
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