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Tolerence build up

Maybe someone can answer this for me. I was doing like alot of you from what i'm reading, going from Dr. to Dr. in order to get enough pills. I was taking vicodin and norco for about 3 years and then one Dr. was giving me ultram so i was taking them in between the other 2 just to try to make them last untill the next rx. well the dr that was giving me ultram stopped giving them, my question is, is it possible that even though i'm  still taking the vicodin and norco,that i could be having withdrawls from not taking the ultram, because i haven't felt the same since i stopped the ultram.Or have i just gone to a different platue and built  more tolerence to the vicodin and norco to where my body is craving more. Please, if any one has gone through something similar i would love to hear from you.
58 Responses
Avatar universal
what's up with this????? first, there's ME, the original DEE,
then comes DEE DEE, and now ANOTHER DEE, is someone playing games with me or what??????
Avatar universal
To Dee, I posted you a comment this morning Feb. 16 under Vicojen Feb. 13 That would explain the mix up. It's even confusing me now. I'm sorry.
Avatar universal
Yes.  But it shouldn't be that bad because you have other meds to level you out right? From my experience with Ultram, I know that it should be taken off the market.  Have you ever really read about it?  It's nasty stuff that really doesn't work that well...(In my opinion)
Take Care
Chad
Avatar universal
I was wondering how things are going with you these days.  There have been two Chads here and I think that I know which one you are.  The other one talked about Oxy all the time.  Anyway, I just wanted to say that you sound pretty good now and I hope you can stay around and keep sharing with us.  J.B.
Avatar universal
Yeah this is the "newer Chad" I've been great, thanks for asking.  How have you been?  I am still an addict but I take everything one day at a time you know?  That's all we can do. yuppity duppity, Write Back
ChadB
Avatar universal
thank you all for spending your time putting your thoughts on-line.  It has really helped me.  I know there is probably a better place to ask this question, and I have searched rxlist.com up and down, but is there such thing as a 10/500 pill?  My Dr. said he wanted to cut me back on the acetaminophen so I am positive he said it was 10 (hydrocodone) / 500 (acetaminophen).  I saw Norco was 10/325 and there was a 10/650..but no 10/500...
I know I am being in-sensitive with this post but you all are very educated and I know can answer my simple question.  Everyone has a safe and "stay busy" weekend.
Avatar universal
I used to get Lortabs from my doctor.  They were basically double strenght Vicodins.  10 mgs of Hydrocodone & 500 mgs of Aceteminophen.  I liked them because they were relatively low in their Tylenol content & high in their opiate ingredient.

I want to make sure that everyone on this forum is aware of Milk Thistle.  It is an herb available in any health food store & now, most pharmacies.  It has been proven to be very effective in helping to keep the liver healthy & even reversing liver damage in some cases.

I started using it when I found out about it's use as a liver detoxifier.  I take one capsule every day 7 days a week.  I no longer worry about liver damage from my daily doses of various medications.

Gene
Avatar universal
Gene is correct.  That's what I get.  It's a little oblong blue pill.
Avatar universal
To Gakster, thank you so much for the info about milk thistle. I, like everyone else is scared about the damage we could be doing to our liver. I even tried  putting the vicodin in warm water stiring to dissolve and letting it set in the refrig. for 20 minutes . Then sucking with a straw to retrive only the top where the opiate was and the taste was so bitter i couldnt do it. I have a thing about gaging with liquid medications. so what ever was ailing my drain as far as pain it got a little relief that day. I am new to this site and i want to thank everyone for the great advise. After i have my hand surgery next week and i really dont need the pain meds i am going to try my first attempt at detoxing. I will need all the encouragement i can get. Thank you all for the good advise i'm getting here.
Avatar universal
umm..my are oblong but are white...I really would like to find out what they are before I take one.  Thank you all for you responding...Mine have a M363 on the pill.
Avatar universal
Yes, your white pills are probably generic name lortab (same as the blue oblong just different company).  I didn't look this up in a reference book but am 98% sure this is correct from experience.  God Bless, Maryanne
Avatar universal
Dee, I had been throug the replacing ultram withthe vicodi/Norco and i never went through the ultram withsrawals while taking something else. I even at one time detoxed from ultram with darvocet.  Hope this helps  cindi
Avatar universal
The mode of action of ULTRAM is not completely understood, laboratory studies suggest that at least two complementary mechanisms appear applicable: binding of parent and M1 metabolite to opioid receptors(which ones?) and weak inhibition of the reuptake of norephinephrine and serotonin(regional?).
You really should just try to stick to ONE Opioid,I suggest Morphine as it naturally occurs in the human body(made by your liver)thus it is not some crazy man made chemical,that you may or may not have enzyme systems to metabolize properly.
If you feel like a lab rat you now know why,remember everybody has different responses to chemicals and that receptor specificity and subtype binding varies between classes of Analgesics,so YES you may have simualtanious withdrawal(dysphoria) and euphoria(or analgesia).  

Avatar universal
I am impressed and intrigued by your replies. I did not know that the liver makes morphine... I bet many of us think it's made in the brain mainly because of the association with endorphins. I am curious, is the morphine made by the body the same as the morphine derived from the poppy ?? Love, Brighty
Avatar universal
Ultram binds with mu receptors and inhibits the reuptake of norepinephrine and serotonin, which is believed to account for Ultram's analgesic effect.  Morphine binds with and activates opioid receptors (primarily mu receptors) in the brain and spinal cord to produce its analgesic and euphoric effects.  
I, too, am curious about your comment "...Morphine as it naturally occurs in the human body (made by your liver)..."  I am aware that most of the metabolism of opiates occurs in the liver, primarily through conjugation with glucuronic acid.  I was not aware that the liver makes Morphine.  My knowledge of Morphine is that it is taken directly from the milky juice of the poppy (Papaver somniferum).  Please enlighten us.  
Best wishes,
Maria
Avatar universal
Thank you for a great post ! And also for your kind words in another thread. Your professional background will be so helpful here as most of us are lay people and the doctor cannot keep up with all of us. I do hope you continue to be active and also share how you have accomplished 15 years of recovery.... that is inspirational! I also hope Spook replies since I asked him for explanations in another thread as well... this whole "mystery" of addiction is something we should all understand... it would clear up alot of misinformation and also the stigmas attached. Hope you stay with us. Love, Brighty
Avatar universal
Having followed this forum for several months, I have been reluctant to post because I have tremendous time constraints.  I feel that posting on a forum like this is much like the commitment of marriage--do not take the vows unless you plan on seeing it through until the end.  My viewpoint might seem grandiose or idealistic to some, but it is this type of commitment/dedication that has afforded me the years of recovery I have enjoyed.  My recent postings and current desire to post have occurred out of my concerns regarding medical misinformation being dispensed freely throughout this forum.  I must pick and choose my battles, but for those reading this comment, PLEASE do not assume that the medical information you read on this (or other forums) is factual.  Anyone can access medical reference sites, but not everyone has the knowledge to understand the information given.  For every study that corroborates a form of treatment, there is a study to deny the positive outcome.  Case in point:  Phen-fen/Redux.  All previous studies showed use of these medications caused an increase in heart valve damage and a disease known as Primary Pulmonary Hypertension.  A study published a couple weeks ago stated the cardiac damage to be minimal and that some people actually had improvement in their cardiac function from using these medications.  What some people were unaware of was the fact that the study was partially funded by the makers of Redux, which I felt added an element of bias to the study results.  I do not want to appear as a naysayer, but would like to urge readers to be cautious when following medical advice on the 'net unless the site/questions are answered by licensed physicians--even that does not guarantee legitimacy, but helps.  It all boils down to opinions and we all have one.  Much of the advice given on this forum is excellent--most of it comes from the heart of the writer and is based on THEIR life experiences.  That type of advice does not come from a textbook, nor is it learned in a classroom.  We all have so much to learn, and even more to give.  That is what is at the core of this forum and what makes it so great!  
Brighty, best wishes to you and your family.  I plan to continue following this forum and wish all the participants health, happiness, and success on their quest for recovery.
Avatar universal
Amazingly enough ALL "mammals"including HUMANS produce naturally within their livers:Codeine,Morphine and 6-o-acetylmorphine(effectively HEROIN)and weird as it may seem ,the Human and other Mammals use the same STEPS as the Opium Poppy to Synthesize these NATURAL CHEMICALS,otherwise known as illegal drugs.
Conversely the 3 above mentioned DRUGS(Natural Chemicals) when taken externally ie in pills etc are METABOLIZED by the liver,for example in the case of codeine(Methylmorphine) a Cytochrome enzyme cyp2d6 assists in the demethylation of approx 10% of it to Morphine.
At this point Scientists have NO idea what purpose mammals make these drugs for within their livers,But now you are enlighened was not life for learning?,love living your life learning.
Avatar universal
Do you practice what you preach?  Just remember what you say:  Life is for learning.  There are many levels and categorys of learning.  Are you open minded? Are you willing to be taught or to just be an informer?? We all have much to learn and the journey goes on.
Avatar universal
....We all must be careful of WHAT we learn, and should be aware of the MESSENGER bestowing knowledge.
Avatar universal
I am learning about myself just by reading the questions you ask in response to my statements,I am very open minded,and often NEED to be taught a lesson,I tend to be Grandiose,but egoless,sometimes I need reminding I am not the only person on the planet.When one is UP and others around them are losing their heads,be empathetic and feel their pain but do not let it get you down,offer your hand to those that ask for it but be prepared to wipe away blood left in their bite marks.
Avatar universal
POMC (Pro-opio-melano-cortin)Gives rise to Beta-endorphin,
although present in pituitary,hypothalamus,locus coeruleus and limbic areas is also present in the Midbrain(the centre of eminance of consciousness)
VTA (ventral tegmental Area)is a part of the Midbrain and what a coincidence is the pleasure area that Opioids exert their main effect through,what is this relationship between consciousness and pleasure/pain?.
Avatar universal
Wow...I won't touch this one... afterall my excuse is this is a medical forum not a spirutual philosophies forum :-)) see how I squirmed out of that one ?? :-)) I cannot help stating my view of the Darwin theory... that anthropological and scientific evidence proves we evolved from lower life forms does not bother me one bit... I believe it is true and part of the Creator's plan for the universe and this planet... but when "man" was finally in HIS image and likeness he breathed a soul and a free will into him. He has left us to discover the mysteries of the evolution of the planet and the far reaches of the cosmos..but we are His highest creation. Love, Brighty
Avatar universal
Spook, thanks for the reference--that was my point, exactly.  The peptides are produced in the brain, but synthesized by the liver.  I appreciate you taking the time to answer.  I also, very much appreciate you showing us the "human" side of you and not just the "textbook" version.  Your input to this forum is greatly appreciated and very thought provoking.  Maria
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