Tyro/b6--How to take

[maddogmmm]

I have read all of your posts about L-tyro and b6 etc. Thank you all for infomormation. My question is do you stop all the pain meds. before taking the L-tyro and b6, or do you overlap them. I am currently taking oxycontin 40mg 2x daily and lorcet 10/650 2 3x daily. Should I just go cold or what is the protocol? Sorry if my question is a little confusing. Thank you all in advance for any advice you can give me.----Your Friend----Michael

[jennyfla]

Well keep talking Kip, it's good to get it out!
There's no better way to straighten out the '**** in your head' then to talk it through with friends!   :)
Plus, you're one interesting guy!!!
:)
Hang in there, everything really is going to be OK!!  :)
Lv Jenny

[skipper]

hey people:

ah yes kicking on the floor of a jail...being the main attraction
and amusement for other prisioners and sadistic guards. you know
the only place where i have ever met crumbyer people is in a
methadone clinic, and they were on the staff!!

i went for a period of 20 years supporting a opiate habit by
doing B&E on pharmacys and clinics. just the memory alone is e-
nough to drive you crazy.... hypo tabs of morphine, dilaudid,
neumorphan.....all waiting for me to "liberate" them. ah yes,
just when i thought i'ld never get caught, i did. wound up 3 days
in jail kicking on the floor (you can't fall off the floor)! i
used to wonder what it was i did to deserve this (w/d)!

several years ago i had some out-patient performed on me. i woke
to see this tiny syringe (spelling) hanging from my IV line and
taped to my chest...a nurse asked me if i was in pain...when i
said yes she advanced the plunger on this doll sized hype a lit-
tle bit. after going through this several times, i snatched the
thing away from her ande sent the plunger home...i awoke about
a half hour later...i told my wife, irish rose about my "odd
dream." my wife answered in a real icy voice, "that wasn't a
dream.

several weeks ago a pharmasist looked up to help the next cust-
omer, to find a real big hand gun stuck in his face. "give me
all  your oxy & ms contin.... wow a smith and wesson Rx. i nev-
er had the courage to do this. i always felt if you put a gun to
someone, you beter be ready to shoot. i've just never been that
far gone (yet)! there are several pharmacists who i know whom
probably deserve this expierence. i read an intresting essay on
the net somewhere by Jim Hogshire, why i hate pharmacists...good
reading!!

last month i turned 51. at the age of 43 i realized that i had
somehow lived past the age of 40. wow- another thing i ****** up!
see i never planned to live past 40, so i didn't worry about the
stuff "normal" people did. no 401K plans, mortgage, children,
grandchildren, etc.... but for some reasion, i've yet to under-
stand i was "spared." i often think about all the friends who
didn't survive addiction...why me? many of these people were much
nicer than i ever will be...so why me?

i'm sorry to ramble...i've still got a lot of **** in my head!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[confused.grl]

First off  thanks for your concern gwh the pills are not the wafer they are small white pills i didnt even get out of bed yesterday but after staring at the only thin that could help, even if it just a little. Today i got up and read the messages that were left for me i decided that i would take them they are perscribed 1-2 every 6 hours i will try using only 1 every 6-8 hours and see how i feel and i feel that i can be strong enough to stop when the surgery pain does. My real fear is that i still have a chronic pain issue, i need to find something that works for that too i have children i cant spend my life in bed.

[lanas]

Good morning--thank you for asking.  Yes, I AM feeling better I am so incerdibly unbelievably happy to say.  It's not a tremendous amount but it is a good sign.  I was out of town yesterday and it was a hectic day.  I had to rush from one thing to another, participate mentally and intellectually in many different events, and I was terrified that I would never make it through.  But I did and, though exhausted by the time I got home late last night, I felt so good that I got through that day WITHOUT the hydro or ultram.  A first in a very long time for me.  Interesting thing that really hit home; I stopped at one of the jails on my way to one of the meetings to see a client.  He was 22 (looked 17) and has been convicted (waiting to go to prison) for burglarizing a pharmacy.  Why?  Because he broke his shoulder a few years ago and was given pain medication.  You know the rest of the story... got addicted, desperate for more, etc.  He's 22 and has a felony conviction under his belt and will spend at least a year in PRISON (not just the time already spent in jail) before he can try to live a normal life.  And just like many of us, he comes from a really good home and loving and caring parents.  He just had a really crappy trial attorney.  (And it wasn't me--I'm doing his direct appeal).  Anyway... thought this story might mean something to many on here (not the prison part)--just knew many would understand.  Keep this kid in your prayers, or whatever.  He needs it.
THanks again WW--I DO feel better.  GROOVY--there is hope!!!!!  Yesterday was a damn good day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Still not as much energy as I'd like but it was better!!!!!!!!!

[1fortheroad]

i have stood in line at the pharmacy, and the thought of jumping over the counter and grabbing anything i could has actually crossed my mind...that is how desperate this stuff can make a person. i feel badly for the guy you spoke about...i can't think of anything more miserable than being in withdrawal while in jail...it makes me sick just to think of it.

i'm glad you are feeling better - you definitely sound positive!!

[Witchywoman]

oops sorry groovy, I forgot to answer your question. I've been clean for about 7 months now, so I can honestly say it does get better.  Life without drugs is different, not necessarily easier, but far more rewarding than living in a fog and dealing with all the residual problems of abusing meds.

love,
WW

[Witchywoman]

Groovy, yes, I am pretty sure that I do feel as good as if not better than I did before all the meds. It's hard to remember, 'cause I was on them for 4 or 5 years.  But I do feel good, I get lots of excercise, eat well most of the time (gotta have french fries once in a while, lol).  I have chronic back pain, but it beats all the complications of narcotic abuse. I'll take the back pain over slavery to a pill any day.

Lanas, how are you feeling? Any better yet?

love,
WW

[Jack Frost]

Groovy,

You say you are using the buprenex ( Temegesic ). Do you mind me asking how many a day and do you plan to wean yourself off of them. I recently detoxed with buprenex for a couple of days and with a combination of xanax had very little w/ds from a major hydro habit. I would like to do it for good and figured that I would use the Temegesic only for about a week, is this unrealistic? I would appreciate some feedback from someone who has been there. BTW - this drug really seems to be a wonder drug for Hydro addiction.

WW - as usual your advice is right on target. Post surgical pain should be treated accordingly and if involves narcotics so be it. The pain, depending on the surgery and the condition should pass and that is the time to get clean if one feels one is abusing. I would like to add that some conditions simply require large doses of narcotics and if you are in real pain (as oposed to just wanting the euphoric rush of narcotics), you should, well, take your medicine.

Finally, all that I have seen first hand and read indicates Ultram is addictive. My experience is that it was a midly effective pain reliever but did not provide the opiate kick that hydros do. I think it was pitched by the pharmactical companies as a break thru non addictive pain reliever, but it did not pan out that way.

Peace,

jf

[lanas]

Thank you so very much for that post; I cannot tell you how much I needed to hear those specific words. Thanks.

[1fortheroad]

how long have you been clean?  i admire your resolve.  do you feel like you did before all the drugs?  i'm sure you've talked about this stuff, but i missed those threads.

[Witchywoman]

Lanas, your energy level will come back, I promise.  It took about a month after I stopped before I felt fully normal, so you must be just right around the corner.  Those days of feeling so lethargic that walking two feet is a major venture really really SUCK! But they do go away.  I predict within a week you'll be feeling better, especially if you keep up the supplements. Are you taking the minerals as well? They do help. Also..even though it is the last thing you feel like doing, excercise does help bring your energy back faster.  The lack of energy is due to low levels of dopamine and endorphins, and excercise helps boost both, as does the L-Tyrosine.  Just don't give up! You will feel normal again, it just takes its own sweet time.

Confusedgirl, I have to agree with gwh...please don't suffer un necessarily in severe pain.  Even the NA big book talks about how if we have a medical necessity for pain relief, we need to take care of our medical needs first.  See...recovery is not just about stopping the drugs.  Ultimately, it is about changing our relationship with the drugs, so that if we need them we can take them without getting sucked in to the compulsion.

A few months ago I had a killer migraine that had lasted 5 days, and I went to the ER.  I told them I was off narcotics and didn't want narcotic treatment, so they tried several other things that did nothing. Eventually I gave in and they gave me a small dose of morphine that did work.  I had been clean a few months at that point, and I did not count it against my clean time, because it was medically necessary, and it did not trigger a compulsion to return to narcotic abuse.
And you just had surgery! Go easy on yourself, heal up, and then get off the meds.  I don't know what kind of surgery you just had, but I'm told by my doc that if you are in severe pain, surgery takes longer to heal.

take care,
love,
WW

[OxyDout]

God, please don't suffer in fear of addiction, you need to take care of yourself first.  However, if you use a minimal amount of the methadone then you should be ok.  Write back, let me know what you have, are they wafers?? if so what color, or are they pills? viles?? let me know so I can be here for you.  Trust me this will work out, but please don't put yourself through this torture. post back. I will be here.

GWH

[confused.grl]

Well i just got home from the hospital this morning, wow was that an challange, after my surgery i woke up with a pca with morphine (this coming from the same doctor i went to and told him not to perscribe anymore narcotic), but i was in so much pain that i had to use it . then 3 dys later i asked him to d/c it. Later that dy (sat) they took it out and wanted to give me methadone, but i was so scared to take it after reading all the horror stories on this site so i refused. By sat. night i tried to use the bathroom i was in so much pain the nurses couldnt get me off the toilet, they called in the doc. and he said i have to take the methadone at least while i was in the hospital, so i did. But now im at home with 90 methadone on my dresser and im in bed in total pain.

[GOD]

Sorry if I sounded "Preachy" about the Ultram use, it's just that Ultram had me by the you know what! Anyway, about your question about physical withdrawls-- yes, I'm pretty sure that Ultram has MAJOR physical withdrawl potential because even on the manufacturer's own website, its says it is only to be taken for less than 2 weeks. I think they know how addictive it really is!

Hope you have a great day! It is pretty nice out... At least here in the midwest....

[lanas]

From my own experience, yes, you could be experienceing w/d.  I, too, have gotten off vics and then within a month, taken ultram for a short period of time and then quit and had w/d symptoms.  They were not bad, but definitely had them.  I agree with jessesarpy that ultram is very addictive and I also think the company knows this.  I know several people in the medical field who all strongly believe unquestionably that it is very addictive--of course, even the compnay is now saying it does show potential for abuse "in some persons."  Anyway, as with all drugs, people will react differently, but this was and has been my experience going from vics to ultram.  I agree that ultram does not give me a high, but it keeps me from feeling energyless and it kept the w/d from vics away.  Now, I'm going it without anything and honestly, the lack of energy is about to kill me.  I'm doing well in every other respect but, as I recall reading in a post quite some time ago, this thought that just getting up and going to bathroom and back is mind-numbinglyt overwhelming--well, I'm going on a month of this and I can hardly stand it.  But I'm not going back to the drugs.  I've come this far and DON'T want to have to go through *this* again.  There has to be an end somewhere, right?

[mckr]

HI all
    been off the meth 7mnths but still no energy head in bits most of the time,cant say im depressed as i feel happier than when i was using,still got mild aches in head and legs but this is common i hear,was on it 16yrs any suggestions thought of prozac etc but everything ive researched has too many negatives.
il never use again but its starting to become a bore I WANT MY HEAD BACK.HELP
  MCKR

[lanas]

All of what you said is so true.  The stupid thing is, I was really high energy long before I started the vics, so my whole life has been structured around having tons to do all the time.  So now, here I am, with TONS that I HAVE to do and I can barely walk from my desk to the filing cabinet (it is 4 feet away).  This is the worst part! I had all the other symptoms, but this has been the worst part--I suppose b/c the other symptoms were so limited in duration and this just goes on and on and on and on...  but I keep thinking that I WAS high energy before and those who have quit for longer-term say you do get back to normal.  I just hope it happens soon b/c between my job, my 4 year old, and the other ridiculous commitments I have made, I'm going to never make it at the rate I'm going (and I simply mean I'm going to have to take sick leave from work or something--I'm really not keen on going back to the drugs--I don't want to face THIS again).  Anyway, I guess I am really understanding better what otehrs have said about the worst part being NOW, not the first 72 hours...

[1fortheroad]

i know what you mean about being tired.  that (plus the depression) is always what gets me in the end.  most professionals say it's only a couple weeks that you will feel that way, but then everyone here (including me) feels the lethargy lasts MUCH longer.  i've been taking the amino acids religiously for 2 weeks now, and i really feel they help with the energy a bit - not a ton, but something is better than nothing.  plus, i'm still on the buprenex - that definitely helps.  but, it does get boring doesn't it...the lack of get-up-and-go?  i wonder WHEN that really comes back, or IF it ever fully comes back.

[Ketta]

I didn't say it wasn't addictive, I just don't miss it mentally, but possibly physically? I took it because I had real discomfort. I had MAJOR abdominal sugery for ovarian cancer 8 weeks ago. I could call up my oncologist for some vic.s but wanted to avoid doing so with the Ultram I purchased online. I took it for pain, not for any "good" feeling, trust me. My question was addressed to potential phyiscal withdrawl after such a short time? Ketta

[1fortheroad]

i guess we just have to have faith it will come back to us...like you said, you've made it this far.  it would be a tragedy to turn back now knowing at some point, you'd have to go thru all this again...and next time it will be worse (that's what i've heard).  just keep posting here - this place has really helped me, and i keep learning more and more from the people here:)

[dive]

Be Careful with Ultram.  My girfriend is in pharmacy school (how convenient, Huh?), and she's been studying opiates lateley.  She told me that Ultram is a synthetic drug with opiate like qualities.  Although most people can't get high on ultram, it is physically addictive.  People who try to get off it, say the physically withdrawls are worse than that of Vicodin.  Don't swap one addiction for another.

DO NOT USE ULTRAM TO GET OFF VICODIN.  I tried it, it just prolongs the pain you must feel, to drop this addiction.  Yes, it releives withdrawl symptoms if you take enough, but they hit you just as hard, when the ultram is gone...

[OxyDout]

I don't know, but I do know that there are plenty of people in this forum because they are addicted to ULTRAM!!! so I don't think that is the best way to go........... anyone else??

[RaspSwirl]

I'm not sure if it's this way with most people, or alot of people, but if I went on Ultram to detox from Vicodin or Oxy or codeine, I'd be so happy.  For me it caused the same feelings. Although I don't know if I'd be able to stop taking it.  I was very able to substitute Ultram for Vicodin when I was taking it.  The only difference I felt was that Ultram made me more sleepy.  Hope this helped: )

[1fortheroad]

i've heard varying opinions on it.  i've heard ultram comes with it's own set of addictive qualities, so be aware of that.  sometimes when i have questions i don't want to ask my dr. about, i call some pharmacies...sometimes you will get a nice, informed person who will answer your questions...sorry, i don't know more about it.