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URGENT HELP NEEDED SUBOXONE
Please I hope for an urgent answer. My daughter has a long term addiction to heroin. She goes really well for a while and then when her ex starts hassling her (he uses and she left him due to this and domestic violence) she gets stressed and anxious and then relapses. She is on suboxone to help but has messed up a fewtimes in the last fortnight. AS she goes to a clinic she gets random urines. As he has all takeaways, he is only tested once a month and always knows the same day!!! so he is "safe". He is a really nasty piece of works and will find anything he can on her for custody - spite more than really wanting 100%. The problem is that I have bailed her out a couple of times in an emergency, by giving her my own urine :( I do this cause I know she is a brilliant mum and it would devestate her and the kids if came back dirty. She never uses when they are with her, only when its thier turn with dad. Anyway, the URGENT issue is this, my wee has NO ssuboxone and I strongly suspect they are going to test for suboxone on the next test, which is tomorrow or next day. they dont usally but they also suspect her been using and may suspect she is using another persons wee to pass. I have heard that sometimes they will deliberately test for suboxone to make sure not been fiddled with.
I know you cant put it straight into the urine as I read that they test for its changed metabolised levels and that their should be barely any non metabolised in the urine. I cant remember what the metabolised name is, think norbupe..... regardless it can only be in urine that has gone through the liver.
NOW for the crunch. On the couple of times she has used, she hasnt taken her bupe or says it wouldnt have worked or having the bupe to could make her sick. Therefore I do have a small amount here that I hold for her for emergency eg if misses clinic. I have never taken any drugs and am on no medication, my health isnt perfect but its not bad either. I want to take the bupe myself about 8 hours before the urine (so has time to start getting into wee) I dont know how much is safe to take though and am a bit scared. She is on 12mg so of course I cant take that. If I take too small a bit though it may not even show up!!! and be negative. Its like a balancing act. Obviously if I only take a tiny bit (thinking 2-4mg) the levels will be well below what they should be but am thinking at least thats better than showing none at all. If she shows none at all they will think is not her urine, if it shows levels but way too low, they will think not taking it properly. Rather they think hasnt beent aking properly than think has used someone elses wee. HELPPPPPPPPPPP how much can I take at once. I was thinking 2mg and tehn leave a few hours and if feeling ok take another 2 mg ?. Will it effect driving though as we have to drive half hour to pathologist
I know you cant put it straight into the urine as I read that they test for its changed metabolised levels and that their should be barely any non metabolised in the urine. I cant remember what the metabolised name is, think norbupe..... regardless it can only be in urine that has gone through the liver.
NOW for the crunch. On the couple of times she has used, she hasnt taken her bupe or says it wouldnt have worked or having the bupe to could make her sick. Therefore I do have a small amount here that I hold for her for emergency eg if misses clinic. I have never taken any drugs and am on no medication, my health isnt perfect but its not bad either. I want to take the bupe myself about 8 hours before the urine (so has time to start getting into wee) I dont know how much is safe to take though and am a bit scared. She is on 12mg so of course I cant take that. If I take too small a bit though it may not even show up!!! and be negative. Its like a balancing act. Obviously if I only take a tiny bit (thinking 2-4mg) the levels will be well below what they should be but am thinking at least thats better than showing none at all. If she shows none at all they will think is not her urine, if it shows levels but way too low, they will think not taking it properly. Rather they think hasnt beent aking properly than think has used someone elses wee. HELPPPPPPPPPPP how much can I take at once. I was thinking 2mg and tehn leave a few hours and if feeling ok take another 2 mg ?. Will it effect driving though as we have to drive half hour to pathologist
Isn't it strange when you just know someone is going to do someone is going to do something completely insane and you wonder why they wasted the time to even ask for advice in the first place.I hope she is still alive.In my opinion she is in more danger than someone coming on threatening suicide.
This site has a spam blocker that prevents posting email addresses. I hope that Dr Aigbo will understand
The mom finally checked in on living with an addict. I copy and pasted.
just checking back in. well wouldnt advise that desperate measure. 36 hours severe sweating vomiting and no sleep. finalky but better today. the one pisitive is that my desperate attempts shicked the hell out if my daughter as she cried when she saw how i was and realised the risk i would take. she cleaned her room of all paraphanalia and has agreed to let me hang off her and do second daily urines for me. she has akso promised to take her full bupe dose each day and to not bite my head off when i remind her about her other medications. i have never been so sick in my life. she is on 12mg some on 24! and i only took about 7 . god knows why some would want to abuse it
just checking back in. well wouldnt advise that desperate measure. 36 hours severe sweating vomiting and no sleep. finalky but better today. the one pisitive is that my desperate attempts shicked the hell out if my daughter as she cried when she saw how i was and realised the risk i would take. she cleaned her room of all paraphanalia and has agreed to let me hang off her and do second daily urines for me. she has akso promised to take her full bupe dose each day and to not bite my head off when i remind her about her other medications. i have never been so sick in my life. she is on 12mg some on 24! and i only took about 7 . god knows why some would want to abuse it
Wow! What a thread. A rare and complete agreement of all posters. What Total insanity. I pray that she's Okay..
it is 8am in Australia. I sent her a note and hope she responds. she took 6 mgs of subs. at 2 different times. so scary she would even consider this. she has lost all sense of rational.
I hope your OK honey, please let us know as it has been over 6 hours since your 2nd dose. Not sure what time it is down under but do not go to sleep as you may not wake up.
"the mom dosed herself with the subs. "
Wow...I would go over there and say something but I get the feeling this is one of those stories that's going to end with a lot of heartache. So sad.
Wow...I would go over there and say something but I get the feeling this is one of those stories that's going to end with a lot of heartache. So sad.
Oh God Debbie...
I just read through this thread and everyone gave such great advice; everyone seemed to see this situation as it truly is: Toxic and dysfunctional.
If only this mother would get some money together to consult an atty, she would find that there are many ways of dealing with the ex... Very sad.
I just read through this thread and everyone gave such great advice; everyone seemed to see this situation as it truly is: Toxic and dysfunctional.
If only this mother would get some money together to consult an atty, she would find that there are many ways of dealing with the ex... Very sad.
the mom dosed herself with the subs.
she posted on the living with an addict forum.
she posted on the living with an addict forum.
Straight up...with the risk of sounding redundant...your PREVENTING your daughter from getting clean. I mean....the majority of the advice above is from ex addicts who WERE your daughter (including myself) Your situation isn't unique....on the contrary, this a classic case. And without trying to sound judgmental...I get the feeling that no matter what anybody here tells you...your not gonna listen to the advice....Its too bad.
I mean...do you hear...REALLY hear what your saying? Your going to take your daughters Sub so its in your pee to help her pass the test...do you hear how crazy that sounds? Im sorry...but the whole situation sounds very toxic to the children. I pray that you listen to those of us who have been standing where your at before and know that the end result of this situation does not have a happy end UNLESS somebody starts to act rationally.
The majority of addicts HAVE to hit there bottom before finally surrendering and making that decision to get clean. That bottom for many is jail....divorce.....losing children to CPS...etc. Its the reality of addiction.
My post may sound judgmental or harsh but I dont mean it to. Trust me...if I didnt care I wouldnt have bothered to respond at all. I just pray you can step outside the situation for a minute and really see what it looks like.
My prayers are with you.
I mean...do you hear...REALLY hear what your saying? Your going to take your daughters Sub so its in your pee to help her pass the test...do you hear how crazy that sounds? Im sorry...but the whole situation sounds very toxic to the children. I pray that you listen to those of us who have been standing where your at before and know that the end result of this situation does not have a happy end UNLESS somebody starts to act rationally.
The majority of addicts HAVE to hit there bottom before finally surrendering and making that decision to get clean. That bottom for many is jail....divorce.....losing children to CPS...etc. Its the reality of addiction.
My post may sound judgmental or harsh but I dont mean it to. Trust me...if I didnt care I wouldnt have bothered to respond at all. I just pray you can step outside the situation for a minute and really see what it looks like.
My prayers are with you.
Wow...All the poster above are sooo right !!!! You are playing with fire..If your daughter is a addict she needs to get help on her own account..For u I would say also to go into the web and look up all the videos and info about the "Disease of Addiction" you will understand a bit more about this and that u r not helping the matter at all...You & Her can and will end up in jail together and then what will happen to the kids...If I got this right your daughter is going to get some outside support???That is a start...Have her come on here her self...We care and can give her some great experience.
I will pray for u all...Please stop doing this for her..It is only give her a green light to her addiction....
vickie
I will pray for u all...Please stop doing this for her..It is only give her a green light to her addiction....
vickie
I couldnt agree any more the daughter need to break free from the boyfriend and i not trying to be mean but mom to so she can get treatment, mom could end up in jail im sure she dosent need that , so her daughter needs treatment, and the children will be fine, have a family member look after them while daughter and mom get the help they both need ponco
I agree she needs to get rid of her signift. other, hes causeing her a lot of problems, and needs to detox ponco
I'm sure there is a lot involved, but right now, you have to do some thinking about what YOU need to do to stop this pattern of enabling and co-dependency. Honestly, it will NOT help your daughter...it will actually keep her using.
". She is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO close to being completely free of use and the timing was horrendous."
With all due respect, I disagree. That's just another excuse, hon. It sounds as though she has been deceitful with the sub clinic on numerous occasions, as this isn't the only time you've offered your urine for her to beat the test. The ONLY person that hurts is HER. She is cheating herself more than anyone else. SHE is accountable for her behavior...not her ex, not you, not the clinic, not "timing"...this is ALL on her.
She needs to work on getting aftercare, learning the stages of relapse, how to identify the risk of relapse, and what to do about it. Relapse IS a part of addiction, for many people, but it's all in how a person deals with the temptations and cravings. She has to learn, for the LONG haul how to handle stress. As a mom, using is NOT an option. She will forever be connected to her ex because they have a child together, so there will alays be stressors from time to time. If she turns to drugs every time she feels stressed over him, she will never stay clean. Stress is part of life...and right now, she is turning to drugs to cope. That's not recovery.
You need to hold her accountable, stop fixing everything for her, let her fail if she's going to fail. Sometimes failing leads to success. She doesn't have any motivation or determination to put her all into treatment, because she hasn't taken it seriously. She haasn't had to. It's completely pointless to be in a sub program if a person is going to continue to use, and lie, and be deceitful. That is still 100% active addiction. Plus, it's sad, because she's holding a spot in the clinic that could be used for someone who wants to WORK the program and give it their all.
I sincerely hope you really think about what people here have said. I know you love your daughter and feel as though you have to help her, and you CAN help her by supporting her in her recovery, not supporting her in her active addiction, which sadly, is exactly what you're doing. You're actually impeding her progress.
Very very best to you all. I hope you seek some help to learn more about how addiction affects everyone in the family...and I hope you can learn how you are very much stuck in this web of addiction right along with your daughter.
". She is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO close to being completely free of use and the timing was horrendous."
With all due respect, I disagree. That's just another excuse, hon. It sounds as though she has been deceitful with the sub clinic on numerous occasions, as this isn't the only time you've offered your urine for her to beat the test. The ONLY person that hurts is HER. She is cheating herself more than anyone else. SHE is accountable for her behavior...not her ex, not you, not the clinic, not "timing"...this is ALL on her.
She needs to work on getting aftercare, learning the stages of relapse, how to identify the risk of relapse, and what to do about it. Relapse IS a part of addiction, for many people, but it's all in how a person deals with the temptations and cravings. She has to learn, for the LONG haul how to handle stress. As a mom, using is NOT an option. She will forever be connected to her ex because they have a child together, so there will alays be stressors from time to time. If she turns to drugs every time she feels stressed over him, she will never stay clean. Stress is part of life...and right now, she is turning to drugs to cope. That's not recovery.
You need to hold her accountable, stop fixing everything for her, let her fail if she's going to fail. Sometimes failing leads to success. She doesn't have any motivation or determination to put her all into treatment, because she hasn't taken it seriously. She haasn't had to. It's completely pointless to be in a sub program if a person is going to continue to use, and lie, and be deceitful. That is still 100% active addiction. Plus, it's sad, because she's holding a spot in the clinic that could be used for someone who wants to WORK the program and give it their all.
I sincerely hope you really think about what people here have said. I know you love your daughter and feel as though you have to help her, and you CAN help her by supporting her in her recovery, not supporting her in her active addiction, which sadly, is exactly what you're doing. You're actually impeding her progress.
Very very best to you all. I hope you seek some help to learn more about how addiction affects everyone in the family...and I hope you can learn how you are very much stuck in this web of addiction right along with your daughter.
thanks for all of yur replies, its a little more complicated than just what I said in my originakl post above, have added a little more in the other forum though. I wold have little hope of getting any custody as I have not a cent for legal help and have kidney problems. If he got full custody those little angels not only liose their mum but will never get to see nanny either, thinking they had been totally abandoned by us both, Unfortunately, as hard as I have tried, he despises me. He blames me for her leaving him as I called the police when she woudnt (after yet another beating) and he blames me for her leaving him, if it wasnt for me she would have not left him as would have had no one to go to,,,,,,,, The children and I are exceptionally close, probably more to me than their mum or dad. Its not jst mum they will lose but me too. She is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO close to being completely free of use and the timing was horrendous. I have working a lot with her on strategies etc, she has just started a recovery group, her bupe was only just pt up to 12mg a couple of days ago and she is seeing a DV (dom violence) counicllor now PLUS starts seeing a psychologist in two weeks, Please see my other reply in the other forum.
I can understand you wanting to help your daughter. but this is not the way to go about it.
Even though you may think your doing a good thing its not. when i read this my heart goes out to you. i can feel your fustration stress anger and anxity thru the screen.
Take deep breathes and read what you wrote and see the danger in this.
Even though you may think your doing a good thing its not. when i read this my heart goes out to you. i can feel your fustration stress anger and anxity thru the screen.
Take deep breathes and read what you wrote and see the danger in this.
BTW, you said would maybe take 2mg then another 2mg...no kidding, if you're opiate-naive, that's EXTREMELY dangerous. That would be like you taking up to 20 vicodin at one time.
PLEASE do not take the sub.
PLEASE do not take the sub.
I couldn't agree more with the above.
You have become very wrapped up in your daughter's life, to an unhealthy and dangerous degree. You THINK you're helping her by providing urine for her tests, but you're not. If she is in a sub program and is still using, then something isn't working. She either needs to sort that out with the clinic by being HONEST or find another kind of treatment, perhaps inpatient?
You keep saying that this ex shouldn't have custody, and you blame her relapses on your daughter. You are not making your daughter accountable for any of her actions. If I was a law enforcement officer, or worked for CYS and found out that her mother had been provdiing urine for her to cheat her way through a recovery program, for SURE that child would not be with you or your daughter. Neither of you are thinking rationally. She is no better than him, and at THIS point, that child is not better off with one or the other...both options are bad. Your daughter is just as deceitful and dishonest as he is. SHE made the choice to relapse..she could have handled her stress and cravings a million different ways, but she chose to use again, and blame it on her ex...and you are agreeing with her. That sends such a messed up message.
PLEASE get yourself some help, you desperately need alanon or naranon to learn about how addiction affects the whole family...how it makes everyone sick. You're definitely there, co-dependent, enabling, making excuses for her, all of it.
I sure hope you don't try to get her out of this tox screen. She needs to come clean with the clinic and let them help her through the relapse. They will if she is upfront with them. Taking sub is for one, dangerous in an opiate-naive person, and two, taking just a part of one tablet is no guarantee she'll pass the screen. A lot of clinics will test for amounts present, especially if they suspect diversion of the drug.
Wish you all the best, I will definitely be praying for you...that YOU start realizing the severe damaging effect of your actions and enabling, and that your daughter starts taking her sobriety seriously. She hasn't had to, because you're always there, cleaning up her messes for her. She'll NEVER get clean with that happening. Never.
You have become very wrapped up in your daughter's life, to an unhealthy and dangerous degree. You THINK you're helping her by providing urine for her tests, but you're not. If she is in a sub program and is still using, then something isn't working. She either needs to sort that out with the clinic by being HONEST or find another kind of treatment, perhaps inpatient?
You keep saying that this ex shouldn't have custody, and you blame her relapses on your daughter. You are not making your daughter accountable for any of her actions. If I was a law enforcement officer, or worked for CYS and found out that her mother had been provdiing urine for her to cheat her way through a recovery program, for SURE that child would not be with you or your daughter. Neither of you are thinking rationally. She is no better than him, and at THIS point, that child is not better off with one or the other...both options are bad. Your daughter is just as deceitful and dishonest as he is. SHE made the choice to relapse..she could have handled her stress and cravings a million different ways, but she chose to use again, and blame it on her ex...and you are agreeing with her. That sends such a messed up message.
PLEASE get yourself some help, you desperately need alanon or naranon to learn about how addiction affects the whole family...how it makes everyone sick. You're definitely there, co-dependent, enabling, making excuses for her, all of it.
I sure hope you don't try to get her out of this tox screen. She needs to come clean with the clinic and let them help her through the relapse. They will if she is upfront with them. Taking sub is for one, dangerous in an opiate-naive person, and two, taking just a part of one tablet is no guarantee she'll pass the screen. A lot of clinics will test for amounts present, especially if they suspect diversion of the drug.
Wish you all the best, I will definitely be praying for you...that YOU start realizing the severe damaging effect of your actions and enabling, and that your daughter starts taking her sobriety seriously. She hasn't had to, because you're always there, cleaning up her messes for her. She'll NEVER get clean with that happening. Never.
I agree with the posts above. BUT- I would like to share some information with you:
1- Buprenorphine (the active opioid in Suboxone) is an EXTREMELY potent and strong opioid... As little as 2 mg have caused fatal results in non-opiate tolerant individuals. So, I would say DO NOT EVEN THINK about taking something you are not supposed to, escpecially that.
2- Just as the original posters have said- You are not helping her in any way but enabling the abuse by submitting urine for her. You have to weigh the benefits VS. the risks... And, in my opinion, the risks involved in this are WAY higher than the benefits.
3- You are dead set on making sure the EX-Boyfriend(?) does not get custody of the child... But, the dangerous slippery slope you and your daughter are going down could result in both of you landing in jail... That means that there will be NO CHOICE but for the EX-Boyfriend to get custody of the child... So, your kinda playing with a double edged sword here.
I would suggest that you let her default on the urine test (after all this is not a DEFINITE that they are even going to look for the levels) and to start fresh and devise a whole new plan after a LOOONNGG sit-down with your daughter to explain to her the jeopardy that she has put not only herself, but the child and YOU in.
Also, buprenorphine will get you HIGHER THAN A KITE if you have no opioid tolerance... Driving a car after taking it would be EXTREMELY dangerous to not only YOU but the others on the roadway.
Please think rationally and do not even think about allowing this scenario to take place. I hope this helps, take care :)
1- Buprenorphine (the active opioid in Suboxone) is an EXTREMELY potent and strong opioid... As little as 2 mg have caused fatal results in non-opiate tolerant individuals. So, I would say DO NOT EVEN THINK about taking something you are not supposed to, escpecially that.
2- Just as the original posters have said- You are not helping her in any way but enabling the abuse by submitting urine for her. You have to weigh the benefits VS. the risks... And, in my opinion, the risks involved in this are WAY higher than the benefits.
3- You are dead set on making sure the EX-Boyfriend(?) does not get custody of the child... But, the dangerous slippery slope you and your daughter are going down could result in both of you landing in jail... That means that there will be NO CHOICE but for the EX-Boyfriend to get custody of the child... So, your kinda playing with a double edged sword here.
I would suggest that you let her default on the urine test (after all this is not a DEFINITE that they are even going to look for the levels) and to start fresh and devise a whole new plan after a LOOONNGG sit-down with your daughter to explain to her the jeopardy that she has put not only herself, but the child and YOU in.
Also, buprenorphine will get you HIGHER THAN A KITE if you have no opioid tolerance... Driving a car after taking it would be EXTREMELY dangerous to not only YOU but the others on the roadway.
Please think rationally and do not even think about allowing this scenario to take place. I hope this helps, take care :)
I meant to say it will not change a thing and Penelope is right. It is likely that she is going to lose the kids either way. If she lucks up and passes this it doesn't mean she is going to win this battle. If she doesn't get lucky the best thing you can do is fight for custody
If only you could see this from an outsider's point of view. You have turned into an enabler and your way of thinking is incredibly dangerous for both your daughter and yourself. She will never get better if she doesn't face the consequences of her actions. Regardless of whether or not she will lose the children, you have to stop doing this. You can always try to get custody for yourself but you need to put an end to this behavior immediately. I'm in no way trying to bash you, I just think that you really need to hear that.
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