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Unconditional love..........
Beachtowel, I read your post referencing unconditional love and your mom. It made me cry and push back all the hurt and pain I won't, can't let myself feel because I am a Mom of an addict desperately looking for answers and desperately wanting to learn how to cope/deal with the situation. I will copy my post to you under the other question:
As a Mom of an addict who is now in serious trouble with the law I do not know how unconditional my love can be at this point. Up until now it has been HUGE but someone forged and cashed checks written out to my daughter from her employer's business account. I have seen the front & back copy of the first check and based on my knowledge of her handwriting, the evidence is pretty damaging. She and he husband were kicked out of my sister's house because we founf syringes, blackened tin foil, etc. I know she is still going to the methadone clinic because when I called and asked if her number was still dosing, she called me that same morning in a beligerent way and asked if I called the clinic, I said yes I had called and did so because I love you. The husband is most likely the one who relapsed since he could do nothing all day, not even take care of the kids. So, now she is fired from her job, moving from one flea bag motel to another with her husband & 3 kids. I want the garandchildren safe. It baffels me that she would do such a stupid thing just for $150 and $200.
This really hurts that she would choose her addicted husband over the children's welfare when her boss said that if she had left him and owned up to what was going on she wouldn't press charges, but nope, she chose to stand by her man.
So Beach, How far does a Mom take the unconditional love????
As a Mom of an addict who is now in serious trouble with the law I do not know how unconditional my love can be at this point. Up until now it has been HUGE but someone forged and cashed checks written out to my daughter from her employer's business account. I have seen the front & back copy of the first check and based on my knowledge of her handwriting, the evidence is pretty damaging. She and he husband were kicked out of my sister's house because we founf syringes, blackened tin foil, etc. I know she is still going to the methadone clinic because when I called and asked if her number was still dosing, she called me that same morning in a beligerent way and asked if I called the clinic, I said yes I had called and did so because I love you. The husband is most likely the one who relapsed since he could do nothing all day, not even take care of the kids. So, now she is fired from her job, moving from one flea bag motel to another with her husband & 3 kids. I want the garandchildren safe. It baffels me that she would do such a stupid thing just for $150 and $200.
This really hurts that she would choose her addicted husband over the children's welfare when her boss said that if she had left him and owned up to what was going on she wouldn't press charges, but nope, she chose to stand by her man.
So Beach, How far does a Mom take the unconditional love????
I live in Tennessee. The one requirement to file for custody this way is to know where they are living. I did not have the kids in my custody when I filed and the courts did not think it was an emergency, so a court date was set for 30 days. I would think you would have to file in the state in which they reside and you would have to know where they are living. I'm so sorry for you. I can tell you this, if your husband has heart problems you need to think seriously about everything. These kids do need a place to go and a relative is the best situation. But, I know that I feel chest pains everyday due to stress. The stress of raising children at my age, the youngest has developmental delays and anger issues which I believe stem from her home situation. The stress of dealing with my daughter. I feel it was best for my grandchildren. Good Luck!
Hi...I'd hoped your situation might have improved, but am not surprised to see it hasn't.
Now I don't know enough to speak with certainty (the people and situation are always so much more complicated than a few posts could sum up) but it sounds like these two are toxic together. It sounds as if your daughter has embraced despair as a way of life. Yes, her addiction is a huge problem that needs to be dealt with, but it sounds like a symptom of a greater problem.
I'm sure you're aware of this, it's not a new thought to you, but when you think of what might have brought her to this state (emotionally) do you have any thoughts or ideas? This may seem futile to helping her, but it could help give you peace through understanding.
Keep in mind I don't know enough of what's going on, but does she ever express any despair over the idea that she'll never really be able to get clean? People on clinics tend to fall into a malaise of futility. They're on the most addictive drug out there, and their's no easy way to get off. It's very painful and that's intimidating. They tend to start using drugs again because the clinic is just an illusion of being clean. The truth is, they're still an addict, so they feel, "what does it matter?" Anger, fear and frustration over the situation makes it near impossible to get over. Hence, continual use and despair.
Again, I know it's not that simple and there's obviously other issues there. Just getting off the drugs/clinic isn't enough. Her biggest problem is probably feeling overwhelmed and powerless. I guess what I'm trying to say, is if there's anyway to get her to speak to others (like those here), they may be able to show her hope.
One of the biggest problems with these clinics is they AREN'T interested in getting you clean, and the patients tend to all be abusers. Not exactly the type of peers to inspire abstinence.
I'll bet her relationship is co-dependant as well. She's as obsessed with her husband as she is addicted to drugs.
I'll also bet giving up her kids even temporarily makes her feel like she'll have lost totally. She's using them as an anchor to "The Real World." as long as she has them, she feels she hasn't lost.
Beachtowel suggests turning them in and I wince at this, hate it. But sometimes it's the only way to go. I won't comment, I don't feel I know enough to say, it's a decision that hangs on you. It makes sense from his point of view, he came out of the jails and became a success. But there's an iron strength there that's unusual in an addict.
I would guess you are going to have to try make arrangements to save the children. You're right, the foster system is terrible. I would even suggest "tricking" the parents into signing paperwork giving you parental rights in the worst case scenario, if it's as bad as it sounds.
I don't know if any of this help, I probably just raised more questions. But at least with questions, you can seek answers.
Now I don't know enough to speak with certainty (the people and situation are always so much more complicated than a few posts could sum up) but it sounds like these two are toxic together. It sounds as if your daughter has embraced despair as a way of life. Yes, her addiction is a huge problem that needs to be dealt with, but it sounds like a symptom of a greater problem.
I'm sure you're aware of this, it's not a new thought to you, but when you think of what might have brought her to this state (emotionally) do you have any thoughts or ideas? This may seem futile to helping her, but it could help give you peace through understanding.
Keep in mind I don't know enough of what's going on, but does she ever express any despair over the idea that she'll never really be able to get clean? People on clinics tend to fall into a malaise of futility. They're on the most addictive drug out there, and their's no easy way to get off. It's very painful and that's intimidating. They tend to start using drugs again because the clinic is just an illusion of being clean. The truth is, they're still an addict, so they feel, "what does it matter?" Anger, fear and frustration over the situation makes it near impossible to get over. Hence, continual use and despair.
Again, I know it's not that simple and there's obviously other issues there. Just getting off the drugs/clinic isn't enough. Her biggest problem is probably feeling overwhelmed and powerless. I guess what I'm trying to say, is if there's anyway to get her to speak to others (like those here), they may be able to show her hope.
One of the biggest problems with these clinics is they AREN'T interested in getting you clean, and the patients tend to all be abusers. Not exactly the type of peers to inspire abstinence.
I'll bet her relationship is co-dependant as well. She's as obsessed with her husband as she is addicted to drugs.
I'll also bet giving up her kids even temporarily makes her feel like she'll have lost totally. She's using them as an anchor to "The Real World." as long as she has them, she feels she hasn't lost.
Beachtowel suggests turning them in and I wince at this, hate it. But sometimes it's the only way to go. I won't comment, I don't feel I know enough to say, it's a decision that hangs on you. It makes sense from his point of view, he came out of the jails and became a success. But there's an iron strength there that's unusual in an addict.
I would guess you are going to have to try make arrangements to save the children. You're right, the foster system is terrible. I would even suggest "tricking" the parents into signing paperwork giving you parental rights in the worst case scenario, if it's as bad as it sounds.
I don't know if any of this help, I probably just raised more questions. But at least with questions, you can seek answers.
What state are you in? If the grandkids were living with me right now I would do that, but they arent and I do not know where they are exactly. I do know what city but but that's about it. I f I could get a court order for custody without them actually being in my home I would.
Haven't been online lately because my husband has been in the hospital and now we will have tor travel 3 hours away on the 10 of Sept. for the right hospital to take him because he is a "high risk" patient for the type of heart surgery they have to do now.
Haven't been online lately because my husband has been in the hospital and now we will have tor travel 3 hours away on the 10 of Sept. for the right hospital to take him because he is a "high risk" patient for the type of heart surgery they have to do now.
I bow to you momagain. What you did is incredible. What a selfless act. Your daughter and her kids are very, very lucky that you are around.
I too have a drug addicted daughter and son in law and two grandchildren. We were used for a long time, but finally had enough. We tried just taking the kids in, but they always wanted them back and were still using heavily. I finally went down to the juvenile court in our town and filed a petition for custody. It costs about $80. When this is filed, a guardian was appointed for the grandchildren and a court date was set. When the court date came, my daughter had already given me the kids for about 2 weeks as they could not feed them and the power and water was to be shut off. They had also lost their jobs. When we went to court, they had to drug test. They tried to get out of it by stating that they had no $$. The judge waived the cost and they both admitted they would test positive. I got the kids and a new date was set for 3 months. They were ordered to complete treatment and marital counseling during that time. My daughter did get and complete treatment, but her husband never even tried. As a matter of fact, they did not even show up at court so I was given custody. They are still allowed to see the kids (??) but only supervised and only 2 hrs a week. That killed my daughter so she said she was leaving him and came home. She has been here about 1 month, but was back seeing her husband after 1 week. I can not deal with that. We will be asking her to leave which is going to be extremely hard on my grandson, but I can not trust her sobriety as long as she wants to continue in a relationship with someone who does not even care enough about his children to at least try treatment. By the way, he has two children from a previous marriage and one of them is 13 and is in foster care due to her behavior and drug use. I would advise you to try to get your grandchildren as soon as possible. You do not have to wait on CPS. My grandson is 7 and he can tell you so much about drug use because he saw it all. He should not even be aware of it at his age. Raising the kids is tough. Our lives are changed forever, but it is worth it when I see that they are happy and healthy and just being kids.
If anyone has any advise regarding me asking my daughter to leave, please let me know. Tough love is a struggle that I deal with on a daily basis.
If anyone has any advise regarding me asking my daughter to leave, please let me know. Tough love is a struggle that I deal with on a daily basis.
It's sounds like you are not throwing your daughter to the wolves as much as getting prepared to help her pick up the pieces when she hits the bottom. That sounds like a way to fight it, let their addiction take its course, even if it is jail, but apply the unconditional love to help your daughter, once she has received enough help to know that you are on her side. At first glance one might think that there are other options, but it appears your daughter has exhausted them.
Thankyou for your response and concern. Having the children go into the foster care system has been a fear that I have had for quite sometime. The horror stories for childeren in foster care are numerous and study upon study has shown that children do better staying with their parents no matter how bad the parents are - most recent results was from tracking some 1,500 foster/not put into foster care children over the past 20 years and where they are today. Results, the ones that actually stayed with less than par parents did better than the ones that were put intoo foster care.
Believe me, I have looked hard at this situation from many angles and the reason it has gotten to this extreem is because I believed they would still be better off with the parents, of course it hadn't reached these porportions until these last few months. One several occasions I offered to take the kids so the parwent could go and do what they had to do - rehab - each time my daughter refused. The closest I got was to have the 7 yr old last school year from Jan - June so she could actually go to school since the parents couldn't get her there ontime if at all. Then as soonas school ws out I had to give her back, and at that point they both were still going to the methadone clinic so I couldn't contest it. Right now, my daughter will not let me know where they are staying but last I heard they moved into a studio apartment with a kitchen 2 adults and 3 kids. I believe she is still going to the clinic but I have no idea about the husband, still think he is using.
She is going to be arrested at some point soon because of forged checks from her previous work - most likely to support his habbit as her boss overheard several conversations with her groveling to him saying she was sorry and had to wait for her check as her boss was still busy. At that time the officer involced will have CPS notified when she is arrested (we are hoping for a warrant for the husband at the same time for theft, but the DA may not go for it due to sketchy evidence). It is a shame she will do time for her husband but she made the choice and has many chances to stay with her family if she left hime. She will not leave him, there is not much else we can do at this time.
I have worked to have CPS notified that we are ready, willing and able to take in the kids when this happens and since the system is so overwhelmed in this county they will be more than happy to give them over to family.
Thanks again. Anyone else with better suggestions are more than welcome to respond.
Bless you all.
Believe me, I have looked hard at this situation from many angles and the reason it has gotten to this extreem is because I believed they would still be better off with the parents, of course it hadn't reached these porportions until these last few months. One several occasions I offered to take the kids so the parwent could go and do what they had to do - rehab - each time my daughter refused. The closest I got was to have the 7 yr old last school year from Jan - June so she could actually go to school since the parents couldn't get her there ontime if at all. Then as soonas school ws out I had to give her back, and at that point they both were still going to the methadone clinic so I couldn't contest it. Right now, my daughter will not let me know where they are staying but last I heard they moved into a studio apartment with a kitchen 2 adults and 3 kids. I believe she is still going to the clinic but I have no idea about the husband, still think he is using.
She is going to be arrested at some point soon because of forged checks from her previous work - most likely to support his habbit as her boss overheard several conversations with her groveling to him saying she was sorry and had to wait for her check as her boss was still busy. At that time the officer involced will have CPS notified when she is arrested (we are hoping for a warrant for the husband at the same time for theft, but the DA may not go for it due to sketchy evidence). It is a shame she will do time for her husband but she made the choice and has many chances to stay with her family if she left hime. She will not leave him, there is not much else we can do at this time.
I have worked to have CPS notified that we are ready, willing and able to take in the kids when this happens and since the system is so overwhelmed in this county they will be more than happy to give them over to family.
Thanks again. Anyone else with better suggestions are more than welcome to respond.
Bless you all.
The reason you don't want the kids in the system are multiple. I didn't mention above, but my wife suffered sexual abuse in more than on temporay foster home, while at this orphanage. She was left there at 5. Her sister was 4........
If you do this wrong your daughters kids could end up in a worse situation than they are in now. I don't mean to understate how bad it is to be living with parents who are using needles. There is no worse addiction, and they definitely do need help. I am just butting in a little to see if a change in tact might have a positive effect asking your daughter for the kids in a loving caring way, not calling her a junkie, or yelling at her (not that you would, but some would). Please get the kids with her permission if you can, becuase there is no guarantee that a judge will put them in your hands. It's likely yes, but no guarantee. Maybe you even need a lawyer to tell you how to start, but "ask" you rdaughter first.
If you do this wrong your daughters kids could end up in a worse situation than they are in now. I don't mean to understate how bad it is to be living with parents who are using needles. There is no worse addiction, and they definitely do need help. I am just butting in a little to see if a change in tact might have a positive effect asking your daughter for the kids in a loving caring way, not calling her a junkie, or yelling at her (not that you would, but some would). Please get the kids with her permission if you can, becuase there is no guarantee that a judge will put them in your hands. It's likely yes, but no guarantee. Maybe you even need a lawyer to tell you how to start, but "ask" you rdaughter first.
I wonder how your daughter might respond to your asking her if you can keep the kids for a while, in a "until you get your **** together" time frame. Offer this using that unconditional love I've seen you guys talk about here.....They are her kids. My wife grew up with her sister in an orphanage, and it was a much better home than if their mother had not abandoned them and 4 brothers.
You don't want these kids in the system. The decision seems to have been made that jail is what they need. That may be very true. But that decision is for the court to make. You can at least try to get the kids like I stated above. Who knows maybe your daughter will respond to the unconditional love in a positive way. Maybe its stupid and you already know what would happen. Well offer it anyway, you may be surprised.
You don't want these kids in the system. The decision seems to have been made that jail is what they need. That may be very true. But that decision is for the court to make. You can at least try to get the kids like I stated above. Who knows maybe your daughter will respond to the unconditional love in a positive way. Maybe its stupid and you already know what would happen. Well offer it anyway, you may be surprised.
I am sooo sorry,i wish there was something i could do?! i guess your right its kind of a wait and see what happens game, the anxiety of it all must be so overwhelming...have you thought about counseling for you? maybe they would have some ideas, not only ways for you to deaL with situation at hand, but they might have some resources we are unfamiliar with to also help daughter/grandchildren??? just another thought, if i happen to think of anything else that MIGHT be of use to you, i will post it...again i am sorry for your situation and hope there is change for you just around the bend...peace&love
The police know about them and which car they drive, you have no idea how many tickets he has - his liscense is suspended. They wouldn't bust him because they gave us the syringes volentarily!!! Can you believe that one? .... bad dreams all night about looking for the kids and could only find the two girs in my dream, not the 5 yr old autistic boy. Nightmares.... I keep searching because I know there is always HOPE. The wait continues
what if you tell the police that he is using and maybe he will get busted? just another thought...
well if i think of anymore suggestions or ANYTHING that may be helpful i will post it for you...so sorry and i hope everything turns around for your daughter and children, in the meantime, keep your chin up and hope the wait for help is just around the corner...best wishes
I believe your concern should be the safety of the children,your daughter and her husband have made their choice. As far as jail goes,,where do you think your daughter would be safer, in jail or where shes at ?Sounds like shes gonna end up there anyway and even just 7 days clean in jail is better then 7 days out and using, hang in there,listen to these people and gl
To our knowledge there have never been any reports of violence, domestic or otherwise, against the husband. Believe me, if we could, we would use anything. I am afraid it has reached the point of no return and it is awaiting game, hoping for the best for the grandkids and then the parents.
I am sick to my stomach knowing how powerless I am in this situation, as they say, let go and let God..........
I am in the process of letting go for my own sanity as well as my husbands.
Thank you for all your concern. The best to all of you who have been reading.
I am sick to my stomach knowing how powerless I am in this situation, as they say, let go and let God..........
I am in the process of letting go for my own sanity as well as my husbands.
Thank you for all your concern. The best to all of you who have been reading.
just a thought" but i was in a very abusive relationship years ago...of course being young and dumb, (i was only 18 with a handicapped baby) and everytime he beat me, i never did anything about it thinking he would change...well eventually the police got sick of the neighbors calling them about my boyfriend and the police put a restraining order on him to keep him away from me and my son...because i refused to...i no longer had any say in it because he just wasnt going to stop...so...just wondering if police have been involved with domestic violence with your daughter and her boyfriend...if so maybe that could work to your advantage somehow? i am really not sure what to tell you, i am just trying to give you different ways you may be able to approach this, like use his domestic violence against him in getting the kids and/or daughter away from him... just a thought...
Yes. We know she would be different and she is different when he isn't around. We know he is abusive too. We have had many discussions on the subject and she refuses to leave him. This last fiasco with the checks from her work we are pretty certain it was him pressuring her to get money for his habit. Even her boss believes this as she had overheard many a conversations she had with him at work. Yet, she still does nothing. Believe me, we have all tried to help her see the light on this matter and now it has most likely become a matter of not wanting to do what other say and doing what she believes is making her own decisions........ she has always been extreemly independent from day one and this is her showing the world she will do it her way. I have dreamed this man would just dissappear or die of an overdose and felt bad that I don't even feel bad thinking like that, he is that horrible. So, the answer to your question is yes.
do you think things would be different with your daughter and grandchildren if husband was out of the picture? would she listen to you then? and would she MAYBE be a happier/better person without him? i guess what i am trying to say is would she try to change her life around if he wasnt there to in a sense "bring her down?" do you think he may be abusive to her in any way? i kind of went through something similar (not as severe) but with drinking i had turned into a pretty good alcoholic, because my boyfriend was at the time (i was younger too) but when he was gone i was able to get back on my feet.....and turn my life around AGAIN... just a thought
glad you liked it! Figured it would appeal to middle-age sense of humor. Your so hip!
Wow........King Beachtowel I like that .......
Hey Prettyls check out that name 222 gave me......thats how I roll baby...........
Hey Prettyls check out that name 222 gave me......thats how I roll baby...........
this is the last i will say and I'll leave it at that...theres not a single molecule of anything about you to be jealous of. So that right there shows your arrogance. And if you are so bored why respond? I'll say what i said on another post. The issue is dead. All i ask is that if I post for some advice or support I'd rather you not give you "expertise" at all cause it won't help anyway. Help everyone else all you want...have fun since it's all you have to do anyway.
Ya know, they say haters are really just jealous...... so there ya go. You just keep on doin what ya do cause thats how YOU roll!! :) LOL!!! If you knew me on a personal level you'd be loling too!! i always say ....thats how I roll.... You are awesome and I personally would like to thank you for all of you knowledge and guidance. Thank You. :) Sarah
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