Update on BRIAN

[Cindy]

Thank you to Brighty, who wrote to us this morning asking if we have found Brian.

Sadly we have not been successful in tracking "Brian" down.  Sometimes privacy and annonymity can be a double-edged sword.  We may never know who "Brian" really is.  We can only hope that he has friends and support as wonderful as are found in this Addiction Forum!

Phil and I thank each and every one of you for your caring & concern.  We commend you and Dr. Steve for the wonderful community you've created here on Med Help International!

Cindy & Phil

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

I hope you are not on your way to Mexico and this helps you.  I am detoxing from Percocet and Lorcet (Vicodin EES) on Friday morning with Buprenorphine treatment - if you read my above posts, you will find out more about the detox with this.  I hope it is available to you in your state.  If it's not then maybe you will be willing to drive to a neighboring state where it's available?  Anyway, I did some research for you - first I typed in "Arizona Substance Abuse" and got 214 website listings - the third one called "Substance Abuse Treatment Facility Locator - Simple Search" with the address: http://www.vicinity.com/smdi/startprx.hm  and then it asked me to put in city and state - when I put in Phoenix I got a listing of tons of treatment facilities within 100 miles of you - you can call them and ask if they offer the buprenorphine (Buprenex) - if they do, then you are in luck.  Anyway, this will get you through withdrawal fairly easy from what I've read. It costs 270.00 here in NJ. Good luck with whatever you decide!   Maryanne

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Hi Paul,
What a mess!  You will find alot of great friends on this site.  They will give you some great information.  Oxycontin can rock your world when you start to get out of hand with it.  It is not a kind drug when you run out. But you know that dont you!  I wanted to ask you (not that I am going to Mexico anytime soon) how did you get Oxy from Mexico?  I mean do they sell it in the Pharmacies somewhere? Or do you get it on the black market?  If you get it on the black market you be careful.  We dont want you showing up on a segment of DATELINE that you are in a Mexican prison.  So be careful! Did the ER's give you Oxy?  I can imagine that your panic attacks are even worse when you run out of your Oxy. Anyway, like I said you will get alot of great responses here. Hang in there.
Marcie.

[Paul]

Hello All...I have been reviewing this forum n`ow and again but I now feel like posting.  Everyone on this board seems to have problems with vicodin and I wanted to share my experience.  I have very bad feet which cause me very very bad pain, so bad I can't walk at the end of the day sometimes.  So the doctor started me out on darvocet then tylenol #3's, then vicodin, then vicodin es, then percocet, then oxycontin.  So I have been taking oxycontin for 6 months, there really isn't a high like it, morphine is not as good, real opiates feel differnet then synthetic ones.  So it used to be 10mg twice a day, that didn't do much so I chewed it up, and now I a taking 50mg chewed up every 4 hours, usually 200mg a day. When I have ran out I have gone to numerous er's and urgent cares, but as we know we are all treated like lepars, but I usually got a couple days worth.  When that didn't work I would go to mexico (I live in Phoenix) and get my oxycontin although that involves alot of money and 4 hours of drive time.  Right now I am out and have been the last 24 hours, I am very tempted to jump in the car and fly down to mexico to get my stuff and blow the rent money, but you know how bad you want it.  I have been having panic attacks (I have a history) and I am seeing a doc tomorrow to get some valium.  The mental withdrawl is much worse then the physical.  Anyone have any advice?  I really don't want to get on methadone.

Good luck to you all,

Paul

[tom to Brighty]

love right back at you, my good friend. Peace and all good things for your daughter, too.

[to doc dan from joe]

It was a topic on 20/20 or dateline (can't remember which) but the people were fully consious but immobile, they could feel the pain but not able to communicate that fact.  The problem was with  the anethesia, not putting them under at all.  Please talk with your doctor about it, I hate to see you not get needed help because of a slim chance of this happening.

[Brighty to MaryAnn]

I also responded to you in a thread above. I believe that the buprenorphine is the cutting edge as far as what I have read here for so many months. There seem to be many facets of addiction where it may be valuable... detox,maintenance and pain relief.... so I hope it gets available more easily so nobody is left out of the loop. I am moved by your candid and courageous posts here... there are many people who never post here but they read and look to those who post for information. Your situation is not that uncommon from the numbers here who are also nurses. I watched a 60 minutes or 20/20 special on addicted nurses a couple of years back and it was very revealing. I know there is a special support group for nurses in recovery. I will try to look it up for you if I can find it again. Maybe you already know about it. Please keep us up to date on yourself and your husband's progress. Everyone here is praying or sending you healing support in some way. Love, Brighty

[to doc dan from joe]

The surgical pain that the people in your post experienced is slightly different than "post surgury memory".  When you go under the knife, the patient is given a curare type medicine to cause paralysis and another to block the pain and go to sleep.  Those people where not "a sleep" and fully consious during the surgury but the paralysis drug keep then from telling anyone they were still awake!  Frighting thought isn't it?

[Brighty to Joe... a question]

AAAAAAAArgh !!! Very horrifying... but I am a bit confused... this business of twilight sleep( medically called 'conscious sedation )... are you saying that they are feeling the pain but don't remember it... or that they feel the pain but can't do anything about it... or both ??? Is this also the case for general anesthesia ?? I have to have a little procedure..elective... and now I may elect to cancel it !!! I will not ever choose general if at all possible... any information is appreciated. Love, Brighty

[Brighty to Tom]

Excellent post with lots of important information... and opinions that I happen to agree with :-)) .... Thanks so much. Love, Brighty

[Brighty to Dee]

Thank you for all your kindness and support... it has been a long but worthwhile battle. If we hadn't fought this demon along with her she would be in the cemetery today. At least now she has the tools to work with and the desire as well. I am praying for you, Dee... your battle is just as hard. I am sorry I do not have information like others here who know how to help you...but we all offer what we do have. Healing is your spiritual birthright and I know you are claiming it. God bless you. Love, Brighty

[tom to all about rapid detox]

what's the goddamn hurry anyway? All of us junkies know how bad withdrawal feels -- why would you want to subject your body to that experience concentrated into two hours of hell?
Remember, just because your conscious mind is put out of commission, don't believe for a minute that some part of your body/mind remembers every minute of the ordeal. I've heard terrible stories (you can find them on the net) told by surgical patients who felt every agonizing moment of their surgery but couldn't move or cry out. Not just a few stories, either.
Many medical professionals believe your mind is eventually forced to experience the trauma of surgery after the fact. The best anesthesiologists know this and have developed all sorts of techniques to stop the pain signals from ever reaching the mind. Someone who knows more about this please correct or clarify what I've said. But I think putting your body through two weeks of withdrawal in 2 hours is just plain nuts. By all means detox with the buprenorphine, it sounds great, but why risk going under anesthesia to begin with? General anesthesia in itself is a life threatening experience and every honest physician will tell you this. You risk your life every time you let your dentist put you on "twilight sleep" for god's sake.
My advice to you is detox nice and slow on buprenorphine (I think it's just a few days, anyway). Don't risk heart attack, toxic shock and stroke with this brutal rapid detox technique.

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

I have the same problem. I thought it was because I was pre menopausal (haha). I am told I am too young for that.  I change twice a night. It has got to the point where I actually keep a change of clothes by my bed.  I practically change in my sleep.  Sometimes it is accompanied by terrible chills.  I sleep on a heating pad too.  I thought that my be why I get the sweats but now I think otherwise.
Thanks for the post.  It is great to know I am not alone!
Marcie.

[Dee]

hello all...Brighty, I was so happy to read '9months clean'! you are a super mom who stood by her child all the way through,I know that most of us mom's would do the same thing, sad to say, there are some who are just not strong enough,So, a big applause to you..you deserve it..also, 9 months, where does the time go? to me, it just seems to be flying bye...may God hold you and Gina in his hands...
I do have a question to post......
any of you's that are on oxy's, whether you chew them or swallow them,does anyone get nightsweats? I have them terrible,sometimes 2 times a night,they are so bad I have to change,they have gotten worse in the last month,I was wondering if anyone that does oxy's has the same problem...Iam on alot of other meds,so it could be from one of them also....take care all....
PS
still nothing about Brian????

[Marryanne]

I thought I deleted my previous answer and basically tried to remember what I wrote and reposted it above - sorry...Maryanne

[Marryanne]

Brighty, I think you were talking to me (Maryanne) when you spoke of Dr. LG -  coincidentally, a forum corresponsent named Gina was also recently asking for some similar answers.  I would never go through rapid detox.  I am a nurse and I think that it is probably extremely hard on the body (too short a time to wipe it all out of your system) Not to mention that most addicts are probably not in the best of health which would be optimal for anesthesia.  I'm SO HAPPY for your daughter and for you!!  It's a long hard road to recovery and regardless of Gina (your Daughter's) track record, we can all only try our best to maintain a sober life.  I will definately be praying for her and hope she is able to abstain.  I know that the brief period I was sober last year was the best 3 months of my life since I started using!  I am going to go for the Buprenex (buprenorphine) detox!  The only thing is, I'm not sure if I should go to Dr. LG due to all the problems.  But I have to admit that the points you made about the 8 deaths make alot of sense....I just know that I don't want to die - and that means I have to get clean.  Thanks so much for your support!  Anyone else here ever detox on buprenorphine injects or pills or know anyone who did?  How long does it take?  Please, I need the input...                     God Bless, Maryanne

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

First I just wanted to tell you that I wish you the best of luck! Please keep us posted on your adventure.  You sound like you are definitely ready for this. Even though I dont know you I think you will do just fine!  Would it be okay to ask what part of Florida it is in?  Hang in there Gina we are all rooting for you!
Sincerely,
Marcie.

[tom to Dan]

I'll followup with NAMA. Maybe they can help me find the "good" clinic in the area. Still believe you've got the answer, my friend. I know a resolution is near. Gotta hang on a little longer and stay the course. I'm looking forward to comparing my MMT experience with yours. I know you'll be able to help me make the most of it and avoid the pitfalls. Talk to you soon.
Your friend,
tom

[Frankinscense]

That counselor that you talked to is so full of misunderstandings of what methadone is about. If a counselor is gonna give advice about methadone,they darn well better know what they are talking about and leave their own prejudes out about the treatments. MMT is method to help a patient deal with the craving that are associated with opiate addiction.  It is a medicine for a  chronic relapsing disease. Not a replacement drug. Gina why would you want to miss a dose anyways? It is your medicine that keeps you well and feeling normal. Compare methadone to insulin. Does a insulin dependent person WANT to skip his dose of insulin daily? Does a heart patient want to skip a dose of his digoxin? No I don't think so! The consequences are worse for these patients if they skip a dose than if a methadone patient skips a dose. Your questions will be answered by the staff at the clinic if you ask them. Don't worry, everything will come into place after your first dose and experience what it is like to not have cravings and to feel normal again. I am not here to convince you. You must make up your mind. This is your decision Gina. You have to decide what YOU want. You will still have to fight your cravings even if you go to 10 cushy treatment centers in Florida. No treatment center can cure your cravings. Either you can deal with them through abstinence or you can't. You must decide! Have you tried abstinence through a twelve step program? Thats the only other possible  way to obtain abstinence if you do not want methadone as you cure for the disease. The twelve steps over an option to methadone. But, I am on methadone and have attended NA meetings daily, here lately.  I have lowered my dose very slowly and felt absolutely no discomfort. I went from 120mgm down to 50mgs with very little, if any, discomfort. The key is to do it slowly and utilise liquid methadone. Ask to use LIQUID Methadone. This is important. I use the diskettes but I do not have a choice. I must add one last important thing. Everyones therapuetic dose is different find yours and stay there. This is a dose that stops your cravings. For some it is twenty milligrams. Others,it is 300mgms. The lower your adequate or theraputic dose the better off you will be if and when you try to lower your dose. Some people choose to stay on methadone their entire lives. I have been on it since 1996 and have no problems with it. Gina,I gotta go help some paying clients now. A little thank you now and then would help me Gina>> Just kiddin' I know you have a lot on your mind.
Peace to You,
Dan..

[Gina]

I write thank you at every close of my post. I am so appreciative that I tell my friends and parents about you and this site. Please don't think I'm unappreciative cause I think I would lose my mind without you guys and gals! What happens if I get sick and can't make the drive--I know I'm thinking negatively but... To Marcie--Thanks for your words of encouragement I really need it. I live in southern NJ not Fla. The counselor from a 1-800 # told me he would fly me to Fla. for an inpatient treatment for free as long as I don't go the methadone route. Lots of negativity!!! Take care you guys and I will definitely keep you posted!!!!!!!!

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

Thank you for your reply Tom.  I live in NJ and plan to go to Dr. Lance Gooberman (a friend that I don't talk to anymore went to him a while back to get of heroin,then opiates).  Anyway, I found on the net that this physician offers buprenephrine for detox.  My husband just told me last night that he is going to detox with  me.  He had said at first that he would taper but we all know that is nearly impossible to stick to.  So I asked him to go with me and he agreed.  I'm SO looking forward to getting off these things!!!!  I can't stand having to take them just to function.  First thing I do in the morning.  I want the first thing I do in the morning to be a cup of coffee and a morning jog!!  There are so many things that were important to me that I let go by the wayside (didn't even realize it until now).  Working out, keeping myself healthy, college - little by little  out the window on these pills. Was on my way to Med School before I became an addict! Thank you so much everyone for your continued postings and support!  I have 2 questions for anyone (1) Does anyone here know anything about Dr L.Gooberman (except the stuff that was in the news about them blocking him from administering the Rapid Detox method - cuz I know bout that) and (2) anyone detox on buprenephrine before?  What can my husband and I expect?  Thanks, Maryanne

[Brighty to Gina.. not negativity... jus]

Hi Gina... my beautiful daughter is also named Gina. She is addicted to heroin. She started in South Jersey and got her drugs in Philly. We just moved away this year. She has 9 months clean and just completed months of long term treatment here in Florida. We are very familiar with the doctor you mentioned. His son went to school with my daughter and also he detoxed some of her friends including her closest who happens to be his neice... small world isn't it ?? I have also heard that he is not permitted to do the rapid detox due to 8 deaths... of his over 2,000 (or more perhaps) patients that went through this procedure 8 died. He was on the TV show Investigative Reports and  they said he complied with the state medical board's request to discontinue the rapid detox.I thought the deaths were due to the patients having the naltrexone pellets under the skin and that they overdosed because of the blocking effects of the naltrexone. Some speculation exists that the deaths may be to the radical nature of the rapid detox itself...another person here posted recently that the doctor was going on trial for these deaths. I am sorry if this is true. My only reason for posting this is not because I am sure of anything... but because it may be a good idea to do some research on this procedure before you choose to undergo it.I would not support my daughter to have this done mainly because it seemed very expensive and with her relapse track record I felt it may be something that was short lived. I had not heard of the dangers or the deaths at the time.  I have heard that it is extremely dangerous and although detox is slept through, relapse possibilities are the same for anyone regardless of what type of detox they experience. Naltrexone does not prevent cravings or relapse.... it is simply a psychological barrier... the person knows they can't get high on opiates while taking this drug, so they possibly are psychologically not inclined to use. Many of those who have used on naltrexone ended up in the morgue. Please make an informed decision before you go for this procedure. I think buprenorphine may be the better choice. God bless you and may you find your healing. Love, Brighty

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Hi!  What part of Florida was the treatment center in?  I wanted to tell you to, to hang in there!

FOR PETES SAKE!!!!!!!!!
  Gina, Please do not feel the obligation to remember to Thank ME when you or anyone address my posts.  I would rather whatever you or anyone say come from your head/heart.  The last thing I would want someone to do is not write because of their fear of spelling or concern about ettiquette. Sometimes my head is so filled with thoughts that I am trying to get down on this site that I am lucky to remember how to type a sentance much less spell correctly or even add a thank you.  So anyway, please continue to keep me posted I may need your assistance on this some day!

Take Care,
Marcie.

[tom to Maryanne]

don't have any personal experience with buprenorphine out here in ole California because it can only be used for pain relief in this state. (and we consider "the coast" to be on the cutting edge?).

Everything I've heard and read indicates that buprenorphine is a fairly pleasant detox if done right. I remember Dan questioning it's effectiveness for treating really "heavy' habits, i.e., addicts coming down from high-dosage opiate or methadone habits.

I know the general routine is you wait til you're in withdrawal before starting the bup, and, if I'm not mistaken, inject the next bup ampoule in response to returning withdrawal symptoms, and so on and on.

--- aw, common, guys! who would want to miss out on those?  I mean, remember the all-body cold sweats, the abdominal cramps, muscle pains, and, of course, my personal favorite, the yellow-green diarrhea [actually a popular color in the 80's for painting backyard condo walls) that leaves your ass burning until, you guessed it, the next diarrhea attack [and you never had to wait too long for that one, did you?]

I get misty eyed with nostalgia and want to pick up my dog-eared copy of Naked Lunch and just start reading from any page. I recall a "chapter" about Burroughs going an entire month without a bowel movement in Morocco. That must have been inspiring.

Such fond memories. Can't imagine what I would have done with my life if I hadn't spent it chasing narcotics.

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

ha ha  that's so funny Tom!!  I'm glad to hear it's relatively unpleasant instead of torturous.  I e mailed my brother today (he's been in AA/NA for about 15 years) and asked him if he knew anything about the Buprenex - his answer:  I think you should go cold - turkey and be miserable so you don't forget how bad it feels.  He has a good point except that the anxiety I feel during withdrawal is so severe that I feel like running up and down the street screaming at the top of my lungs and I can't breathe.  Not to mention the yawning, goosebumps, diarrhea, bone aches, insomnia, etc.  I tried tapering/cold turkey and that's what happened!  I just can't handle cold turkey.  I also need to work while going through this and I heard that while I will be uncomfortable, I should be able to function on the buprenex (buprenorphine).  God, I hate pills.  No. Yes. No. Yes, I hate them.  I cannot live like this anymore and don't want to die from taking them.  I can get whatever I want through this doctor so I'm going to cut that source off as soon as I go to Gooberman for the detox.  Thanks for letting me blab.  God Bless you All, Maryanne