Aa
Wellbutrin/Zyban as a tx for addition
I would like to know the most recent information available for the treatment of addiction with Wellbutrin/Zyban. I was in a one-hour siminar on antidepressants this week and the speaker mentioned Wellbutrin as a new tx for alcoholism. My 19-year-old son is battling an addition to pain pills. He has been in rehab, IOP and goes regularly to NA meetings, but continues to relapse. Is it possible that Zyban might help him kick this addiction? Your response would be most appreciated.
I read your post about the pharmacy not filling your new rx. I worked in a pharmacy until about a year ago. I don't know if things have changed in the last year but when I was working prescriptions we were NEVER allowed to change a docters orders in any way. If the doctor (the same doctor that filled the original RX) says an RX is OK, then no one can refuse to fill it. If they did, and something happened to you because of it, and it was proven that your doctor did OK the RX, then the lawsuit would be staggering. Believe me, nothing scares pharmacies more than litigation.
The health insurance, however, can refuse to pay for it. In most cases you will have to pay retail price because the insurance company DOES NOT have to pay for the same drug class twice in one month. Sometimes pharmacies can get an override for this, but as you all know, they will not bother because they will just assume you are an addict. A horible way to act, I know, but I worked at this pharmacy long enough to know that most pharmacy employees are like that anyway.
The health insurance, however, can refuse to pay for it. In most cases you will have to pay retail price because the insurance company DOES NOT have to pay for the same drug class twice in one month. Sometimes pharmacies can get an override for this, but as you all know, they will not bother because they will just assume you are an addict. A horible way to act, I know, but I worked at this pharmacy long enough to know that most pharmacy employees are like that anyway.
....It's seems as though, I've met you somewhere before???? Just joking. Wow! Thanks for all the info. (:
Hi Councillor - your patient will not come totally right until you replace all the zinc/mag you have leached out of your body over the past few years - this is what 'hanging out' really is - it's your body craving zinc/mag (zinc stops cravings/magnesium stops depression). If you don't do this it will take up to 2 years to return to normal as the only other source your body has for zinc/mag is food and then it is in such tiny amounts it takes years to build up again. If you get a blood test done you will find your levels of both are way down on what they should be.
A typical tablet contains somthing like this:
Zinc amino acid chelate 75mg
Magnesium amino acis chelate 37.5mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Manganese amino acid chelate 10mg
Viatmin A (1000I.U.) 300mcg
Grading your habit on a scale of 1-10 (1 being occasional use and 10 being long term methadone at 100 plus mg's a day) you should take the following amount for a period of one month then slowly reduce to a daily amount of 2-3 per day.
Habit scale/size - Number of tablets per day for a month
10 10
9 9
8 8
7 7
6 6
5 5
4 4
3 3
2 3
1 2
0 2
You will notice that I recommend you never go below 2 per day. This is because zinc/mag depletion was your original problem so you should give yourself an ongoing supplement to make sure it does not happen again. I now take 2-3 per day to maintain my health. I have had no failures with this treatment (everyone OK after less than a month) and have treated addictions (including my own) as varied as methadone and cigarettes. The cigarrete smoker reduced from 2 packs per day to just 5 cigarettes per day in a week without any discomfort. If you suffer any kind of 'hang out' just increase the zinc/mag dosage and give it a liitle longer to take effect (a week or so). Don't beleive all the bullshit about drug addiction you have heard - it's all **** - this is the real deal. The drugs themselves are not actually addictive but they do leach all the zinc/mag out of your body by increasing the metabolism of them creating a shortage that gets worse the longer you use unless you replace them while you are using in which case you don't hang out when you stop - you just come straight - this is true beleive me I have tried it as have a few other people I know and none of us sufferred any hang out when we stopped.
A typical tablet contains somthing like this:
Zinc amino acid chelate 75mg
Magnesium amino acis chelate 37.5mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Manganese amino acid chelate 10mg
Viatmin A (1000I.U.) 300mcg
Grading your habit on a scale of 1-10 (1 being occasional use and 10 being long term methadone at 100 plus mg's a day) you should take the following amount for a period of one month then slowly reduce to a daily amount of 2-3 per day.
Habit scale/size - Number of tablets per day for a month
10 10
9 9
8 8
7 7
6 6
5 5
4 4
3 3
2 3
1 2
0 2
You will notice that I recommend you never go below 2 per day. This is because zinc/mag depletion was your original problem so you should give yourself an ongoing supplement to make sure it does not happen again. I now take 2-3 per day to maintain my health. I have had no failures with this treatment (everyone OK after less than a month) and have treated addictions (including my own) as varied as methadone and cigarettes. The cigarrete smoker reduced from 2 packs per day to just 5 cigarettes per day in a week without any discomfort. If you suffer any kind of 'hang out' just increase the zinc/mag dosage and give it a liitle longer to take effect (a week or so). Don't beleive all the bullshit about drug addiction you have heard - it's all **** - this is the real deal. The drugs themselves are not actually addictive but they do leach all the zinc/mag out of your body by increasing the metabolism of them creating a shortage that gets worse the longer you use unless you replace them while you are using in which case you don't hang out when you stop - you just come straight - this is true beleive me I have tried it as have a few other people I know and none of us sufferred any hang out when we stopped.
have you tried http://www.prescribeus.com/? I understand it's perfectly legit. You apply on-ine, then an MD's supposed to call you at home over the phone, after which you get a generous month's supply with a refill of 10mg Vics for about $170 bucks. Just an idea.
If I can find a doctor, so can he. I will take a look, and let you know what I can find out about your area. I'll get back to you soon.
You are overly complimentary, but I appreciate it. Though my working profession is as a technical writer for software developers, I find that incredibly hard compared to writing about something I really know and have lived on a daily basis: drug addiction and everything and everyone that goes with it. It is, in some ways, a world in unto itself. When I write about drugs, whether it's my own personal reminiscences, speculation on a new drug, or just blathering on about some new sociologically oriented theory, my mind is crystal clear, the topics, organization and vocabulary are as if they were already written for me, just waiting for me to copy them down.
In between seizures and scrambling for work in the suddenly moribund computer industry, I'm trying to find the right angle, the salient topic that will allow me to write "from the heart" of my life as an addict -- with all the things I've seen and felt -- and the hope I see in certain quarters. But then, who wants to read another "I got stoned, then I got sober" book? BOOOOOOring!
Gotta keep working on that angle. There's no more important subject to offer fresh ideas on -- it's just something that starts coming out of me when I start a post on one of these forums. But to be a success, there are publishing requirements that have a lot to do with marketing and sales that must be addresses and satisfied first. Otherwise, I'll just have another unread manuscript. Oh well, enough. We'll see ... I'm not dead yet!
In between seizures and scrambling for work in the suddenly moribund computer industry, I'm trying to find the right angle, the salient topic that will allow me to write "from the heart" of my life as an addict -- with all the things I've seen and felt -- and the hope I see in certain quarters. But then, who wants to read another "I got stoned, then I got sober" book? BOOOOOOring!
Gotta keep working on that angle. There's no more important subject to offer fresh ideas on -- it's just something that starts coming out of me when I start a post on one of these forums. But to be a success, there are publishing requirements that have a lot to do with marketing and sales that must be addresses and satisfied first. Otherwise, I'll just have another unread manuscript. Oh well, enough. We'll see ... I'm not dead yet!
Not pay our medical bills...now that is a brilliant idea....ya know my husband has been having an ongoing problem with these physician...ok the oxy 10 mg (yeah right you heard me 10 mg twice a day) were not helping him so he called the dr. and told him that..the dr. then said to bring the script in to the office...well since he had it filled he took the bottle and the pills in to the office and they took the remaining pills away and gave him a script for Vicoprofin 1 in the am and 1 in the pm....well, my husband has alot of problems with herniated discs nerve problems etc from a really bad injury...so vicoprofin 1 tab does not help so he took 2 in the am and 2 in the pm... that helped him..he is really good with pills he has been in recovery from coke and alcohol for 10 years now and he really was never into pills ever...anyway he ran out of vicoprofin about 5 days early and the dr. called in a new script but would not change the order..ok 1st of all he had no right to take the remaining pills from doug, we paid for them thank God insurance picked them up because they are quite expensive...but Doug didn't want to **** the doc off and be cut off completely from anything...i told him not to pay his dr. but like he said insurance pays for him and they at the office files the claim. well now he again is looking for a doc that is willing to treat the pain one who is not "narcophobic" I like that term.....so, imagine if we all stopped paying....hmmmmmmmm what a thought love to all cin
Brilliant concept, my brother. I think we were on the brink of a revolution, untill certain doctors started getting involved, after all, if they are not ALLOWED to help us, we just quit going in for treatment.......as I did, I am proof of that. I beleive there is hope. My new doctor has told me this. I have a 2nd appt. this week coming.
How are you doing? Your post ^ above was so well put together, I feel like printing it out and hot glue-ing it to the wall, here and everywhere I go! lol You are the picture of understanding, and common sense, even w/ all your trials and tribulations....
How are you doing? Your post ^ above was so well put together, I feel like printing it out and hot glue-ing it to the wall, here and everywhere I go! lol You are the picture of understanding, and common sense, even w/ all your trials and tribulations....
I'm not sure when the meaning changed - I think it was in the early part of the 20th century - "drugs" stopped meaning healing and relief of pain and took on an entirely sinister meaning. "Drugs" became synonymous with moral degradation, social irresponsibility and default of character - in other words, a defective, unworthy individual.
The 60's, which in many ways really happened in the 70's, didn't help by glamorizing LSD, pot and coke (honorable mention to speed). Coke is a drug with the capacity to destroy society as we know it and may still succeed in doing so. You can't blame anyone for their revulsion at cocaine and crack.
However, the net effect of this situation is as follows: ANYONE who wants a drug for a so-called illicit purpose has no trouble obtaining it anytime they please. It's the solid citizen with the cancer pain that follows all the rules and trusts in their medical professionals that winds up in unrelieved agony. If they're like a lot of people in society without the support structure most of us enjoy, they frequently end up divorced, friendless, penniless, frequently homeless and often justifiably suicidal.
All this because someone put out a couple of celluloid reels of garbage entitled, respectively, Reefer Madness and Cocaine Fiends? Obviously, the process of turning drugs in the public mind from something good into something so evil it's virtually ignored by the leaders of our society runs deeper than a couple of films.
There needs to be a revolution among patients not being properly cared for because of this ridiculous narcophobia that seemingly infects all segments of our medical industry. My dream is to organize all the untreated or inadequately treated pain patients as worldwide as is practical, and simply refusing to pay another dime to anyone until their complaints are heard and their needs are acted upon.
What would happen if every pain patient in the Western word simply stopped paying his medical bills? Think it would get anyone's attention????
The 60's, which in many ways really happened in the 70's, didn't help by glamorizing LSD, pot and coke (honorable mention to speed). Coke is a drug with the capacity to destroy society as we know it and may still succeed in doing so. You can't blame anyone for their revulsion at cocaine and crack.
However, the net effect of this situation is as follows: ANYONE who wants a drug for a so-called illicit purpose has no trouble obtaining it anytime they please. It's the solid citizen with the cancer pain that follows all the rules and trusts in their medical professionals that winds up in unrelieved agony. If they're like a lot of people in society without the support structure most of us enjoy, they frequently end up divorced, friendless, penniless, frequently homeless and often justifiably suicidal.
All this because someone put out a couple of celluloid reels of garbage entitled, respectively, Reefer Madness and Cocaine Fiends? Obviously, the process of turning drugs in the public mind from something good into something so evil it's virtually ignored by the leaders of our society runs deeper than a couple of films.
There needs to be a revolution among patients not being properly cared for because of this ridiculous narcophobia that seemingly infects all segments of our medical industry. My dream is to organize all the untreated or inadequately treated pain patients as worldwide as is practical, and simply refusing to pay another dime to anyone until their complaints are heard and their needs are acted upon.
What would happen if every pain patient in the Western word simply stopped paying his medical bills? Think it would get anyone's attention????
...Don't let that Dragon stop you now. Run, Jog, bike ride.....read, study.....keep going...flood your mind w/ knowledge!! Knowledge is power. Keep trucking, your almost there! We're here for you.
Cin thanks for the e-mail I was really in an unexpected pit...Cin, you were so right..then I went to post on my laptop and couldn't connect it took a **** I got so tied up in trying to fix it I forgot about the "DRAGON" in my ear! So I think if you are in a bad way kicking, **** up your P.C. and fix it! IT works!ROFLMAO! Well day 8 almost over whew! aI love all of you out there. Thanks for being my guardian angels when mine is snoozing!
Peace and Light of the Lord on you all!
Wiz
Peace and Light of the Lord on you all!
Wiz
Thomas, I knew you'd get a break one day. I am so glad that you found an understanding company....as for the guy asking for help, after what he did......Well, once a snake always a snake, and they can shed there skin, but always a snake. Do you really think you need this person up your rear end, at this time in your life? You need peace right now.
Wiz and Cin: RE: pharmacy........just something I found, to add to the discussion:
This is why the "Medical Profession" needs to be in charge of "medicine" in this country, and "Law Enforcement" in charge of criminals and law breaking. Law Enforcement should have NO control at all over "medicine" and they should be forced to "tell the truth" when they are under oath. Sick people trying to get something for their suffering are NOT criminals, but the DEA cannot understand that concept and doesn't know how to tell the difference between a sick person and a criminal.
Even addicts bleed, and do suffer pain. The addict needs special consideration, and expert handling, but nevertheless, they need care as anyone does.
Wiz and Cin: RE: pharmacy........just something I found, to add to the discussion:
This is why the "Medical Profession" needs to be in charge of "medicine" in this country, and "Law Enforcement" in charge of criminals and law breaking. Law Enforcement should have NO control at all over "medicine" and they should be forced to "tell the truth" when they are under oath. Sick people trying to get something for their suffering are NOT criminals, but the DEA cannot understand that concept and doesn't know how to tell the difference between a sick person and a criminal.
Even addicts bleed, and do suffer pain. The addict needs special consideration, and expert handling, but nevertheless, they need care as anyone does.
You are so right, ya know for a young chickadee you are pretty wise...LOL no one can ever way I don't know how to choose my friends....
Thanks for the brief history. Being new here, I was not aware of your legal issues. I wouldn't want to say for sure that the feds are *not* watching all the computer systems for possible issues with you regarding narcotics, but in this modern world of Big Brother I could not in all good conscience tell you to throw caution to the wind either. Your post has actually helped me to discover something I will need to watch very closely in my recovery -- namely the way my mind will still turn almost instinctively to a dishonest solution to problems. Until you presented your reasons to me for not "pharmacy hopping", the thought I am about to share as a possible solution never even entered my mind. Perhaps your physician could, either by phone or in writing (or both, ideally), speak to the head pharmacist at your pharmacy and explain his or her rationale as far as your medication (that is, one being for maintenance and the other for breakthrough pain). I don't know if this is feasible, but at least I am encouraged that I was able to have a "clean" and honest thought. My personal recovery is as dependent (no pun intended) on recognizing and changing my thought patterns as it is on not taking the first drug, for if I cannot do the former, it is only a matter of time before I do the latter. Thank you for unknowingly helping me to discover a serious danger signal tonight which I can now focus more clearly on in the future.
Peace,
Pelle
Peace,
Pelle
Thomas, you have never failed to answer me. I love you for that.
Thank you for the Ativan warning. I will take heed of your advice when the time comes to wean down.......so many things to do....First it was the Somas, Then the Vics, now the oxy's....
when the Ativan is gone I might not know myself at all!!! ;-)
LOL
peace to you brother,
God Bless us all,
Wizard
Thank you for the Ativan warning. I will take heed of your advice when the time comes to wean down.......so many things to do....First it was the Somas, Then the Vics, now the oxy's....
when the Ativan is gone I might not know myself at all!!! ;-)
LOL
peace to you brother,
God Bless us all,
Wizard
The toughts are there for me also and I have to say I did consider going to another pharmacy...I still may ....the script is legal and I can have my doc call but i am really sick of these people anyway......they can check the computer system and see that it is not very often I get scripts filled for narcotics.....we all have these "dishonest" thoughts but if a person were normal and decided to go to another pharmacy for one reason or another would they refer to it as dishonest? so, my friend don't be hard on yourself.....love to all cin
I don't even bother with the chains. No way.
I got myself known by all the people who work for a small pharmacy in a very small little town about fifteen miles from where I live. It's NOT that they are going to do anything illegal. Far from it. But they do know me; they know my problems and my issues. And I've never gotten any bullshit from them and no lectures and no nonsense either.
In fact, I have to drive right past eight or nine chain drugstores to get to my little one out in the country. And I wouldn't change that for any amount of convenience.
As for the chains: **** 'em. If you have to use them, why not have your doctor call the people you're having trouble with and give 'em hell?
Frank
I got myself known by all the people who work for a small pharmacy in a very small little town about fifteen miles from where I live. It's NOT that they are going to do anything illegal. Far from it. But they do know me; they know my problems and my issues. And I've never gotten any bullshit from them and no lectures and no nonsense either.
In fact, I have to drive right past eight or nine chain drugstores to get to my little one out in the country. And I wouldn't change that for any amount of convenience.
As for the chains: **** 'em. If you have to use them, why not have your doctor call the people you're having trouble with and give 'em hell?
Frank
you left out the most important thing: THE NAME OF THE PHARMACY. If it's a chain, it's the last one I want to walk into. Do us all a favor and reply with the name. Or, if you don't want to do it "publically," please send the answer to
***@****
I'd appreciate it. I've had some trouble with a pharmacy, lately. If you were refilling early, the Monday thru Wed pharmacist didn't give a damn and filled it no matter what. The Thurs thru Sunday pharmacists acted like it was their job NOT to fill prescriptions (a job they did well). Same pharmacy, same script, opposite outcomes!
***@****
I'd appreciate it. I've had some trouble with a pharmacy, lately. If you were refilling early, the Monday thru Wed pharmacist didn't give a damn and filled it no matter what. The Thurs thru Sunday pharmacists acted like it was their job NOT to fill prescriptions (a job they did well). Same pharmacy, same script, opposite outcomes!
what type of stuff do you write? I'm writing what's supposed to be the be-all and end-all of on-line XML certification courses. It's been a backbreaker so far with the usual impossible deadline and one-too-many "directors."
How's the methadone working out? How are the side-effects for that stuff?
How's the methadone working out? How are the side-effects for that stuff?
It costs more, of course, but I never use pharmacies like Walgreens, Rite Aid or Sav-on with their intrusive computer overseers. I look for truly "private" pharmacies -- hard to find and, as I said, always charging top buck. The next trick if your employer's insurance includes computerized rx coverage -- use the insurance only for the really expensive stuff. Grit your teeth and pay "I've got no insurance" full, cash price at the few mom and pop pharmacies left around. The chain pharmacies get you two ways: one, they can see what you've purchased at other members of their same chain; two, when they log on to your insurance carrier's site, they can see everything you've ever purchased on that insurance - when, what, where, how much, doctor, the whole deal.
Most of you probably know all these things. But for those who haven't had the pleasure ...
By the way: Most patients are under the impression that, between the doctor and the pharmacist, that the doctor is "in charge." Not so. The pharmacists function, in part, as adversaries to the doctors -- gatekeepers to all the riches. Sure, only the doctor can OK a refill or change instructions or initiate the rx to begin with, but the pharmacist has complete authority to refuse to fill the rx for virtually any reason. Remember that.
Most of you probably know all these things. But for those who haven't had the pleasure ...
By the way: Most patients are under the impression that, between the doctor and the pharmacist, that the doctor is "in charge." Not so. The pharmacists function, in part, as adversaries to the doctors -- gatekeepers to all the riches. Sure, only the doctor can OK a refill or change instructions or initiate the rx to begin with, but the pharmacist has complete authority to refuse to fill the rx for virtually any reason. Remember that.
The trials and tribulations we go through!!!!!!Who put those pricks in charge! If ANYONE said to me "I'm not filling this legit oxy rx because I'm tired of it". I guess I'd be W.D.ing in jail! Now I'm not a violent man, BUT!!!! **** THEM!!!!!!!!!!
I'd come over the counter rip some minimum wage head off and, and, and ....................WHoa there, sorry everyone, Day 7 winding down was getting a little testy and read my new friends Cindi and Thomas' comments and was jut ripe to blow a hooty! Sorry for my outburst..Again I must thank you Thomas and Cindi for as always you have given me an opportunity to put the "DRAGON" at bay. Worked again! ROFLMAO! Cin, thanks for the
e-mail it was nice to hear from you in a differant venue also.
Thomas, is that your e-mail address above? Cin tells me you are on the west coast like me. Okay to write?
Power & Magick from the Wiz to all of you,
May God Bless his little children!
Wizard
I'd come over the counter rip some minimum wage head off and, and, and ....................WHoa there, sorry everyone, Day 7 winding down was getting a little testy and read my new friends Cindi and Thomas' comments and was jut ripe to blow a hooty! Sorry for my outburst..Again I must thank you Thomas and Cindi for as always you have given me an opportunity to put the "DRAGON" at bay. Worked again! ROFLMAO! Cin, thanks for the
e-mail it was nice to hear from you in a differant venue also.
Thomas, is that your e-mail address above? Cin tells me you are on the west coast like me. Okay to write?
Power & Magick from the Wiz to all of you,
May God Bless his little children!
Wizard
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